Archive through May 12, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: That bites: Archive through May 12, 2003

Becca

Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 10:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Look at it from the jury's point of view: Matt admitted that he had no clue how to play the game going in, and Rob was his mentor. Alex himself (said this) that Matt wouldn't be where he was at if it weren't for Rob.

On the other hand five of the tribemates were former alliance members of JEnna. Jenna was in the inner circle of alliances (and she did this on purpose.) If rob hadn't switched because of Alex's big mouth. She would have been in the final 2. Her alliance knew this and was rooting for her.

REmember Neleh and V. People felt Neleh was undeserving, people there felt Matt was undeserving.

The edited to make it look like all jenna was a selfish brat. (and she is spoiled and she is selfish) however she was obviously very well liked too which means she couldn't have been all that bad. In interviews, Joanna (said good things about Jenna, Shawna, Jeanne (complained basically about Heidi), Dave, Alex, and well Heidi. Jenna was pretty well liked. (Apparently Rob just said that jenna was his favorite survivor girl.)

Probst specifically said that things were left out so that the ending would be a suprise. What was left out was that a lot of the jury liked Jenna. She was thier pal, she was the cute thing they saw every day, and was fun to be with. And she really didn't screw over that many people. Her alliance basically got to vote for one of their own, and they did.

Beruthiel

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 04:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I propose a change in the voting rules - and sorry if someone else has already said this, because I've just watched my tape of the show and had to come here to vent, so I haven't read all your comments - let the viewers choose the winner. I don't care about editing, or who the jury likes best, or what alliances they belonged to, nor who needs the money most. This jury showed that they were too biased and not objective enough to weigh the true criteria for winning. They should have been able, hypothetically, to say that although the hated so-and-so's guts, he/she fit the criteria, and they failed. Forget Jenna, it's the jury who sucked!

Bcandscott

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 06:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You know, I think the best way to console oneself about the fact that Jenna won this thing over Matt is the knowledge that Matt gets to go home with MATT and Jenna has to go home with JENNA. She may be pretty, she may be newly wealthy, but she still has to live with herself and while it may be fine with her right now while she's suffering from her youth and beauty "handicap", the fact every young and beautiful person must face is that time marches on. Matt will always have his life experiences, his intellect, his diverse interests (learning to speak Swedish????) and maturing is always so much more comfortable on someone of depth.

I look at this as Jenna's 15 minutes of fame. I think Matt will carry away a greater gift, one of REAL personal growth PLUS 100,000 dollars. Not bad, not bad at all.

Foliage

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 06:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have to ditto Becca's summary. I have no doubt that Rob vented to the jury that Matt was his boy/puppet and didn't deserve the win. In addition I think the jury could see right through Matt throwing the last immunity challenge.

The one thing that continues to befuddle me is the intensity Alex exhibited towards Matt for asserting that he played with "morality and integrity". How was Matt any less moral than Jenna?

Hermione69

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 06:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Poll from Survivor Fever. I thought this was funny.

-Jenna deserved to win, bimboing and slacking are brilliant strategies. 151 (10.8%)
-Matt deserved to win, he worked hard. 568 (40.6%)
-Rob should have won, he strategized best. 304 (21.7%)
-Butch should have won, he's a nice guy. 31 (2.2%)
-Revote! - the jury was tripping on acid when they voted. 374 (26.7%)

I am more disgruntled today than I was last night. Bleah. I am also jumping on the bandwagon that believes Jeff Probst must have had one hell of a crush on Jenna Morasca to think we would be satisfied with this finale. Right now at the CBS.com poll, Matt's popularity is way, way, way ahead of Jenna's.

Marameko

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have watched all Survivor shows, but until now I have been clueless when it comes to the extent of editing. Like the Amazing Race I am disappointed in the outcome of this game. The only person that I would not have wanted to win more than Jenna was that absolutely horrid woman from the last Amazing Race, Flo. Talk about a piece of work.There is no use saying I will not watch these shows, as I will. It is now time for the public to vote......Now if Kim gets voted off of American Idol and Reuben comes in 2nd to Clay I will be ticked off again.I am Ready for The Mole and The Family......I am sick of this Mark B guy.

Hippyt

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm with you Hermi,I'm more angry today than I was last night. Last night I was unable to close my mouth from the shock of it. What were these people thinking? The editing must have been very poor,because I still have no idea why Jenna won.
And,Jeff,what is wrong with Jeff? He thought people would be HAPPY with this? Does he think the entire Survivor viewing audience is desperate 16 year old boys? I want his head on a plate!
I am done. I'm taking Survivor off my favs,so I don't even have to see the word. I am disgusted.

Fluff

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Hippy! Head on a plate! HAHAHAAA!

Nicoleme

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LYN~ i caught that to... i was like oops, they just messed up!!! glad i wasnt the only one that saw it.

Tabbyking

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
i will be sad if clay doesn't win AI, but not like i am that jenna won this...what a travesty! i think ruben is really good, just not as good as clay. but jenna was nowhere near anyone else, except for heidi, and isn't that going DOWN the ratings scale?!

however, i am not a 16-year-old boy and i think jeff still is! didn't he think jeri was hot, too?

Realmom

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am not surprised that I am disappointed with who won last night. I never seem to like the person who wins Survivor. Jenna did not deserve to win. She did not play the game or work as hard as Matt.

Here's my take on why the jury voted as they did:

1) First you have Butch. Butch is loyal, which was shown throughout the show by his always voting his own conscience. Butch's reasons for voting for Matt were right and were reasons the others should have considered.

2) The rest of the men: I think this was totally a matter of ego. Alex, Rob, and Dave are not men of small egos. Quite the opposite, I'd say. The couldn't stand the thought of being bested by another man, so they voted for the girl. I'm not as bothered by this from Alex and Dave as I am from Rob. Rob knew Matt was a better player than Jenna, and he should have had some loyalty to Matt. I think he just couldn't stand the idea of Matt beating him, but it would be okay if Jenna did. There is also a possibility that Rob figured out that Jenna and Matt had a deal when Jenna refused to make a deal with Rob when they were the last two standing in the final IC. That would also give him reason to not vote for Matt.

3) The women: Jenna had Heidi in her pocket because Heidi is in love with Jenna. I thought both Deena and Christy skewered Jenna during the Q & A, and I was quite proud of them. What happened then? I think it came down to feminist pride. Deena and Christy both strike me as having feminist philosophies. They both seem almost touchy at any, even inadvertent, faux pas on the men's part that might smack of chauvinism. Bottomline for them was that they wanted a "sister" to win it. {I, too, dislike male chauvinism, but I do think there are times men are accused of being chauvinistic when they are merely clueless that they have said or done something that would be perceived as such.)

So, Jenna won because of male ego and feministic values on the part of the jury. What this means is that the jury, like many juries in court trials, vote from preconceived notions and held values/philosophies, not by rules of the game or notions of who played the best game.

Maris

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe Jenna won because those that were in the game with her believed she deserved to win it. I disagree that the public should vote the winner.

I dont think Jenna was all that bad and people seem to get all twisted out of shape because they believe she was mean to Christy. As Jenna said this morning Christy never made any attempts to get to know the girls either. My impressions of the first two shows was that Christy was a whiner and had a poor me attitude. Maybe she was acting that way all the time and they just didnt want to be bothered. Christy picked up when she changed tribes but she got on my last nerve in the first two shows and I would probably have voted her out first.

I am happy with whoever the jury picked. I think Rob should have won it only because I think he worked the hardest to win it, he was mentally on it 24/7.

Crazydog

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Survivor absolutely should not be decided by a viewer vote. We only get to see what we are given. Impressions are formed based on editing. Mark Burnett could decide who he wanted to win the money by editing in only the good things about them and editing in negative things about the stronger competitors.

Viewer voting was used for the first Big Brother because theoretically people would be watching them and seeing everything that went on. Viewer voting is used on American Idol because we see the performances live, and supposedly we are voting on the strengths of the performances.

There's no way viewer voting would work. It would completely change the dynamic of the game. The people who are in the game are privy to so much more information than we are.

Obviously Jenna was very well liked and that's why she got a 6-1 vote. Jeff Probst couldn't even selectively "randomly" draw out votes to create that suspenseful 3-3 tally to suspensely break the tie with the last vote. A lot of viewers at home might not have liked her, but she clearly understood the dynamic well enough to get so many of the jury to vote for her.

Monkeyboy

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree completely with both Maris and Crazydog

Karuuna

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm not sure Jenna was badly edited. Even she herself agreed last night that she was whiny and spoiled.

Monkeyboy

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I never liked Jenna like most of you, but I wanted her to win more than anyone in the F4. Butch was *never* on the show and Matt and Rob were way too overconfident. I am happy that she believes that she has learned a lot from her experience and owned up to being bratty. I really think she deserves the title and the million, she got herself to F2. Good job Jenna.

Hippyt

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Monkeyboy,You know what I think? It involves my foot and a monkey butt......

Ginger

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am so bummed that Jenna won, but I have to say that the person who disappointed me the most was Christy. How could she vote for Jenna? A close second is Rob. Where is his loyalty? And if he couldn't muster loyalty, why not have at least a sense of justice. I don't understand his hostility towards Matt, who was nothing but kind to him all the way through. I know I am just echoing what so many of you have said, but I had to put my word in.

The thing that bothers me the most is that I think that the editors and producers of the show went too far in trying to surprise us with the outcome. Instead of being surprised, I felt confused, like "How can this be true?" Not so much that Jenna won, but that she won by a landslide. I feel like they need to do a good job of building suspense, but they also need to make the show understandable to us. Also, the explanations for why they all, except Butch, voted for Matt were shallow and lame. I wanted a deeper sense of why they did what they did.

Lastly, I felt genuinely sorry for Matt. I can't imagine his feelings weren't hurt. First he is portrayed as a crazy man on the show, second, he is subjected on live television to Alex's fumbling rant "dude!" about how he is a nut case, and third, he has to feel that, despite all the work and leadership he showed out there, nobody likes him. Instead they'd rather vote for someone who acted like a brat a good part of the time. Matt is odd in ways, but only because he is so clearly an ORIGINAL. My goodness, he studies Swedish on the weekends! What a fascinating guy.

I was so happy to hear Jenna say what she did about growing up and about how this was a learning experience for her. It isn't that I don't wish her well, it's that I don't think she deserves the big prize, and certainly not six of the seven votes.

Ginger

Crazydog

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Karuuna, well then that proves the point even more, I would think. Even if Jenna is whiny and spoiled, as she admitted, the people that lived with her for 24 hours a day still thought she was more deserving of the win than Matthew. We the viewers cannot hope to understand fully how these things work, only the contestants themselves have enough information to give her the title.

Personally, I was really impressed with the way she won those final two challenges. She knew that her butt was on the line and she did what it took to pull out the wins. Just like in the first Survivor, Kelly was on the chopping block but saved herself to get to the finals.

I also think Jenna played the game right. The others perceived her as expendable and did not view her as a threat at all. She pulled out all the stops when she really needed it. The under-the-radar strategy seems perfectly fine around here for Ethan, why shouldn't it apply to Jenna as well? Because she is perceived as less likeable? I think she played well, and that she is deserving.

Tabbyking

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
you know, if someone gave me 1 million cool ones, i'd admit to having been bratty and even to maturing/growing up! then i'd laugh all the way to the bank where my money would be maturing...at a slow rate, but then so would i.
but since no one did give me the million, i am going to sulk, parade around the house in the nude, eat peanut butter out of the jar and call myself the 'cute girl'! tabby runs off to find chocolate. God, there has to be chocolate somewherrrrrrrrrre! shinola, is that the mailman looking in the window?! tabby quickly glops peanut butter onto her privates and grabs the mother's day bouquet and starts plastering flowers onto the peanut butter patches. ouch! did the gals on BB use roses?

Heyltslori

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
ROFL Tabby :)

Hermione69

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh Tabby, it is so good to have you here handling the disappointment that many of us feel with your usual humor. You are great!

Kearie

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I really hated the outcome of this game...I knew it would happen at the final 4 tho. However, I think I realize why I've disagreed with every winner since Richard Hatch's win.

My expectations of the game haven't changed, but the actual "contestants" of Survivors...I was so sucked in by Survivor 1...and saw and was impressed by Hatch's strategy. It was logical, calculated and clear. Funny thing is...very few people really liked him as a teammate. If I recall, he was cocky, arrogant, selfish as well as sneaky and decetful.

But dang, you had to admire his game plan. He Played the game to the fullest. It was almost like Will's win. We also respected Will's game plan.

During the second season of Survivor the contestants of the game made honesty and integrety
an issue of such importance, that strategy became less important.

This Survivor clearly showed the huge sway in what the Jury values as "win worthy". It's been changing all along but was most noticable in this show.

Most people, even the contestants, think Rob played the best game strategically. But...the jury values honesty and integrety more now.
Things change...dagnabbit!!!!

Gina8642

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I second Heyitslori and Hemie

LOL

Missapril

Monday, May 12, 2003 - 12:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jenna should have been disqualified and probst fired when she was given the letter that christy had to actually use her funds to bid for - and take a lot of undeserved flack for doing it. That one incident made me aware that this show was rigged to favor jenna and the rest of the show just backed up that notion... can't wait for the scandals to start flying as they are MORE than certain to do... I think there will be more corruption and finagling exposed with this survivor than all the others put together... get that out of court settlement/hush money ready MB!