Archive through February 25, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Joanna vs. Christy:
Archive through February 25, 2003
Catfat | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:54 am     I think we need a new thread on this topic, since discussion is now taking place in three different threads. Mods, feel free to delete it if you need to. This is what I think. Joanna knew the rest of the women were more than a little angry at her about her over-reaction to the idol, especially the fact that she babbled all night and they didn't get any sleep. Resentment was building and Joanna knew it. She couldn't pick a fight with most of the other women because for one reason or another they represent authority to her. Christy, however, with her deafness, was perceived as weaker and further down the pecking order. When Joanna eavesdropped on the conversation between Christy and Janet/Jeanne (?), and overheard her actions being called stupid, she totally lost it and took it out on Christy. That was no act, she was in a rage, far greater than the situation called for. Even at TC, Joanna was still livid, if you have the tapes, check out the look on her face. All her prettiness has disappeared, it almost looks like a different person. When Alicia and Kimmi had their set-to, I didn't see this rage in either of them, even with all the finger waving. |
Squaredsc | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:59 am     catfat im not understanding your post with regards to the title. i guess i need to read the other threads? |
Kaili | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:03 pm     catfat- do you mean Joanna vs Christy? |
Catfat | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:38 pm     Yes, I mean Joanna vs Christy. I am getting worse and worse!! Moderators, can you fix this? Am I still allowed to post? |
Moderator | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:44 pm     Thread name changed. (M) |
Catfat | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:48 pm     Thank you, moderator. I try so hard to get things right, checking the spelling, trying not to post twice, etc., but its always something. I could write a book. |
Squaredsc | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:02 pm     its ok catfat. so are you saying that joanna was just looking to fight with someone and christy is the first person she found to fight with? if so, i didn't see it that way. of course all of them are pms'g at the same time, no food, no water, and no shelter, and ding-dongs are washing their clothes, so frankly its a wonder no one has killed anyone yet, lol. but with the alicia/kimmi thing, yes i think alicia was p/o'd. |
Whoami | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:23 pm     You know, the impression I get from Joanna and Jenna is, that being deaf is a nasty thing that Christy chose to be. They are alomost acting like homophobics would be to a gay person. Their disdain for her, and their refusal to even try to communicate with her is just absurd. I can understand the theory of Joanna feeling like she needed to go off on someone, and she chose Christy. I have a sister like that. She has a need to feel powerful. When she starts feeling like she's losing control, or losing power, she picks on someone to beat them down. How do I know this? Cause usually it's me she lashes out at. I can't tell you how many times I've hung up the phone from her in tears. If someone had leaned into my face, and stuck their hand in my face like that, I very likely may have knocked that hand aside. The way Joanna was behaving, she probably would have taken a swing at me. Then we both would have been booted for physically fighting. |
Essence | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:42 pm     Whoami, I don't get that impression from Joanna. I think she would done the same thing to any of the others had she heard them say her beliefs were stupid. She lashed out at Christy because of what Christy said, not because she is deaf, IMHO. |
Catfat | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:01 pm     When Alicia and Kimmi got into their argument, I thought Alicia was completely right and it was time someone told Kimmi to close that big blue mouth of hers. I for one was tired of hearing her whine about the poor chickens. But then, Alicia was one of my all-time favourites, and so I am ready to overlook her faults. |
Squaredsc | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:01 pm     thats what i was thinking essence. and in that she did treat christy just like she would anyone else who she perceived was calling her stupid. |
Tabbyking | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:06 pm     i do feel the hand blocking was meant specifically for christy, though. joanna would certainly have gotten mad at any of the others, but she was at least talking to the others before that. she wasn't even dealing with christy at all up to that point and, at least to me, the hand in the face was meant deliberately because christy reads lips. this is only my opinion, of course, but that's how i read it! |
Squaredsc | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:22 pm     tabby, the hand thing is something that some black women do. some women that ive heard also say with the hand thing, "talk to the hand 'cause the face ain't listen" or something like that. its used to signify that the person is no longer listening to what the other one is saying. not specifically used because the person is deaf. which is why ive said she would have done the same thing to anyone else. |
Tabbyking | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:38 pm     i understand that, but i still saw it as she did it to christy because of her being deaf. we just see it differently and that's okay. it's also why i always say 'this is my opinion' or 'i feel...' i quit posting for a while because i always felt people thought my ideas were not the 'right' ones. but i am back and just expressing what i got out of something. i am not saying you are wrong, but i am not saying i am wrong, either! we just see it different, and that's ok. |
Squaredsc | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:43 pm     ditto. |
Tabbyking | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:45 pm     smile :>) |
Kaili | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:47 pm     I think that Joanna is probably very confident in her beliefs and was offended that Christy said "That is stupid". Similar to the debates we have here- if we disagree we don't call each other stupid or say what someone else feels is stupid. For example, I don't eat meat and I would get mad if someone heard that and said it's stupid. To me, it isn't stupid- it's my personal thing and I don't think anyone should judge. They can and I'm sure they do, but I wouldn't have liked their opinions expressed that way. At the same time, I'm guilty of similar things. If someone said something that I thought was totally absurd and I was told about it in privacy, I might say I think it's stupid. It's not like she went up to Joanna and told her she thought that. It was overheard and that's where the real proble comes in. It wasn't meant for her ears. I doubt Christy would say it to her face, but I don't see anything wrong with her expressing her opinion to someone else. And who knows what all she was told and how the explanation was really given to her. Anyway, bottom line I think Joanna did overreact. I can see her being offended at having something she feels very strongly about being called stupid, but I don't think she dealt well with the confrontation. Probably a big part of it was stress and tension and the whole Survivor situation. |
Tabbyking | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:04 pm     i, too, am wondering if whoever told christy used words that put out the feeling she herself thought it was goofy of joanna. or did she just give the facts? i can't remember how it was told to christy. i learned my lesson when i was 6 about saying something was silly (which is how i think christy meant it, as silly, or goofy, and stupid are semi-interchangeable...) anyway, i was 6. our pedodontist had huge coloring books in his waiting room. you could put your name on the page you were coloring, in case you didn't finish in one sitting. when you went for your cleaning 6 months later, you could pick up where you left off. well, i was lying on my tummy, thumbing through a book, trying to find my old picture. a girl about my age came up and sprawled out next to me. and all of a sudden, seeing a name printed on a saved page, i said, "look at that! someone's named dixie. how dumb!' (mainly because at the ripe old age of six, i only knew a horse with that name or the little dixie cups our dentist had for us to rinse and spit!) and the little girl said sadly, "that's my name. that's my picture." and i was so embarrassed for both myself and poor dixie! and i had to tell her i was sorry and that i just hadn't ever heard that name for a person before and that it really was a nice name...i can still feel the heat in my cheeks! what's funny is the adults who told my parents, "you named a child chris?" (for my brother christopher who is now 44 years old.)"that's a dog's name!" well, guess how popular christopher became for a boy's name (and some girls, too!) the same group was also amazed when my next brother was given my mom's maiden name (wheeler) as a middle name. now last names are common as first names! so, i do try and think before i talk, but sometimes i literally have to bite my tongue to keep from saying something out loud! |
Kaili | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:19 pm     I agree tabbyking- if it was explained in a way that sounded like she thought it was kind of dumb, then it's like talking about something with a friend and kind of bonding in this situation. If I am talking about something being stupid with a friend or something...or how about this. My mom and I laugh about my aunt (mom's sister). She tells me something and is laughing as she tells me (indicating she thinks it's funny or dumb or whatever) then I am likely to laugh along with her. However, if she tells me something and gives no indication that she is telling me because she thinks it's dumb, then I'm probably not going to say how dumb I think it is. At least not in such a brash way. Howver, in Christy's case I'm also thinking about what Hermione and others have said about deafness and taking that into consideration. Christy probably has a harder time making those distictions. It's hard to say without being there, or being her, what her take on it was, how she interpreted the explanation, etc. People make mistakes, and she probably did. Also, I am sure she doesn't realize how loud she was and that her comment could be overheard. If you have headphones or earplugs in, you may speak louder than necessary without realizing it and she was probably a lot louder than she meant to be and her tone in how she said it probably sounded a lot more harsh than she meant. She can't help that, and the others should be able to take that into consideration. I myself have a harsh voice and people think I am angry when I'm not, and what I say has been misinterpreted a lot. Whe she said it was stupid, her intended tone may have been to indicate it's stupid to get so worked up or it's stupid to make such an issue about it or whatever- not that Joanna herself is stupid. |
Tabbyking | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:31 pm     i think i need to hear what words the other person used. if she used some word that would indicate how off the wall she thought joanna had been...didn't most of them have a problem with joanna not only going on about it, but actually lapsing into 'tongues' during the night? i don't know if i would say 'stupid' but i'd be kind of like, 'what happened last night was joanna wigged out about the idol'...and that would get across what i felt about it. also, i can't remember if we saw the person's face clearly. did she look 'disgusted' with joanna? i didn't pay a lot of attention because i took it as someone just explaining what happened during the night and something that christy missed out on. when joanna went off, i think i flinched! my deaf cousins do speak quite loudly, so no wonder joanna heard. i am surprised the 'teller' didn't see joanna coming...or, maybe she did.... "divide and conquer" and all that sometimes works! get the others all angry at each other and walk off with the prize! |
Bookworm | Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:59 pm     I don't think we got to hear Jeanne actually tell Christy about it, only interviews with Jeanne, Christy, and Joanna after the fact talking about it. If that is the case, we don't know how she was told, what words/tones were used. It's all in the editing... |
Jane_Bond | Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:20 am     You know, it is unfortunate that Christy was overheard, as I'm sure no person would care to hear their snark overheard by the snarkee, but the girl had a valid point. No matter how you slice it, Joanna's bitching about the idol, particularly bitching about it all night long and knowingly aggravating her tribemates, was stupid. It was uncharitable, it was obsessive, it was absurd, it was annoying, it was strategically a horrible move. The problem in this argument is that Joanna snowed Christy. She was immature, hyper-aggressive, unsympathetic and acted in a generally crazed manner. Christy, OTOH, tried to placate Joanna, accepted blame (when she didn't nescessarily have to), attempted to rationally discuss the issue and generally acted aware of Joanna's emotional/social rights. |
Emt911 | Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:41 am     Excellent post Jane-Bond |
Hunter | Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 01:12 pm     Jane-Bond Great post. You have stated my exact thoughts. Are you psychic?...smiling |
Jane_Bond | Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 01:14 pm     Thanks, but don't worry, I'll start posting a few controversial posts as the season gets underway. |
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