**Tonight's Show-- March 13, 2003**
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: **Tonight's Show-- March 13, 2003**
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Archive through March 14, 2003 25   03/15 11:29am

Tabbyking

Friday, March 14, 2003 - 09:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
sometimes the people i don't care as much for are the ones that i miss when they are booted, because some of the drama goes, too! boston robb, brandon, lex, joanna, a few others. 'i want you gone!', i think week after week. and, poof! they get booted; then i think, 'what a motley crew we have left here to watch! where's that obnoxious guy or gal....damn, it's boring without so and so to stir up trouble'
i don't think shawna will be around much longer and i don't feel she was ever really 'in the game' much--however, she could prove to be an enigma wrapped in a mystery, bounce into things and stay around til the end. stranger things have happened!

Watching2

Friday, March 14, 2003 - 10:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I forget which preview thread I was reading - it might have been at the CBS site, and it indicated that Matthew was going to be giving Alex some competition for Shawna. Hmmmmmm....interesting, considering his lack of blabbering about the hot women and the question about his orientation. :)

Realtvfan

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 05:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Since we were not shown the guys decision process for whom to boot this week, my suspicion is that the guys decided to turn to Heidi first, not because she was the prettiest, but because she was the youngest and most impressionable. The guys proably saw that Jeanne was 40 and too smart for the double cross and Christy was probably not going to switch. Heidi made the most sense because the guys knew that she would probably switch now that she was seperated from her "2 other teammates".

Girls double crossing girls goes all the way back to S1 with Kelly turning on Susan Hawk in the final four. That is what prompted the imfamous speech. S6 also had Helen double cross Gaundia (sp?). I can not recall any guys double crossing guys.

Becca

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 05:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Look, Everyone keeps on talking about Heidi screwed over 1/3 chance for a 1/4 chance. Not necessarily the case. If she stuck with the girls she would have given herself a 1/6 chance to be taken out of the game do to the purple rock. She's got to be counting on the merge for several more weeks. When she can reunite with the members of her alliance. Besides the longer Jeanne gets to know the others, the more likely she'll unite with them over the girls. why unite with people who have you next on the chopping block? Jeanne should have thrown her lot with the guys.

Heidi was obviously thinking long term. I most survive for now, for two weeks. Then, I'll go back. If I were in Heidi's position I'd be thinking the same thing.

Becca

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If it was close to teh end, then make a power play like that. But stick with the majority for awhile. a tie would be stupid that early in the game.

(IN BB3 Jason did this he was actually a member of the Roddy alliance, until he saw an opportunity to take control of the game. He actually sold out the men deal by taking voting Eric, to keep Lisa. But, he did it because it would get him farther in the game.) It's a game, and the fact that Jeanne didn't sit back and say let's see, i have no allies among the girls, and I'm on a new tribe, maybe I should allign, says a lot about the type of player she is.

Becca

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa the oh so sweet winner, voted for Amy to come in, not her own boyfriend because she felt it would suit her better in the house... So, I don't understand why everyone is saying Heidi's actions in this tribal council were so well reprehensible. Her whole I'm so cute, isn't the best, but going with the majority was a pretty smart move.

Webkitty

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Becca, putting aside Heidi's personality and personal viewpoint on life, I agree with you 100% on her strategy to join with the men to vote out Jeanne.
Jeanne even said in her EArly Show interview, that she only had one day in the new tribe before the vote. Given more time, she would have explored throwing in with the men.
Heidi got the chance, she took it.

I don't like Heidi's message, and hope she doesn't win this thing, but I am able to seperate that out to look at indivual plays within the game objectively. Heidi did what was best for Heidi at the time. It may come back to bite her down the line, but not anytime soon. (this, from spoilers, she doesn't win, or even make the final four)

Webkitty

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Adding, I am in agreement with everyone else in that I was tickled for Christy and her new found exceptance. It looks like from the previews of next week, Butch takes her under his wing. I can't wait to see this!

Kaili

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 06:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
We don't even know that Dave wasn't outright lying to Heidi and using her. In all reality, given the information he got from Jenna about her alliance, why on Earth would they bring her to the merge? I'm thinking maybe even then it was an outright lie and he told her that to get her vote, then will vote her out next opportunity. Strategy? Get a vote to ensure the men are in the majority, then get rid of Heidi 1. because if they can vote her out right away she wouldn't be on the jury so the lie wouldn't matter and 2. because if she did happen to make the merge she would possibly feel some alignment with him as well as with the girls.

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 11:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
As far as the issue of the game, I do think Heid made a bad choice breaking her word to the other girls. Over the course of these games, it has come out that the person who breaks a word or alliance is much more likely to be seen as a problem and voted out rather than it getting them very far.

Those who stick with what they originally gave their word on go further. While people in these games may get you to change your alliance, they quickly lose appreciation that you did so when it stops meeting their needs for that week. And those you broke the alliance or promise with never forget it.

So if you want the best chance to go the further (and I mean something beyond 1 or 2 aditional TC's at the beginning of the game) your best bet is to stick with the bed you created. Of course that means you have to choose the right bed to begin with.

Fruitbat

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 12:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think the men made a strategical error in choosing Heidi. Dave knew she was tight with Jenna and was told Jeanne was next to go (I think). I think her looks and youth played a part. Much better to have gotton rid of Heidi to eliminate he aligning with Jenna after the merge.

On the other hand he may assume she will bring Jenna to them. He would be wrong. Heidi will go with Deena and Jenna to make that alliance one person stronger.

Niceguy

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 09:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks everyone for such detailed descriptions. The show was pre-empted here in Milwaukee for Marquette basketball.

I watched the NAACP Image Awards instead, which weren't bad at all except for Denzel winning all the damn acting awards and Soul Food winning all the drama awards.

I was pulling for The Wire.

Curlyq

Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 09:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bingo, Kaili. Dave knew all the weaknesses of the women's tribe from Jenna's ramblings. He knew Heidi was ready to boot Jeanne before the mix. He knew it would be easier to get Heidi to vote out Jeanne than to get Jeanne to vote out Heidi. I'm sure before he sent the other 3 men off to their new tribe he relayed all the information Jenna gave him about the women's weaknesses, so the men are probably going to divide and conquer in both tribes.

Heidi was foolish to trust these men she only knew for one day. She should've known that after two weeks the men's loyalties to each other would be well established by now, and even if they bring her to the merge they'll ditch her once they reunite with their original tribe. True, she might've faced a 1/6 chance of getting booted by the purple rock (assuming they're even doing that this season), but she also had a 5/6 chance of staying. Now she has a 100% chance of being in the minority and Dave warned her she'll be voted out before any of the men.

Meanwhile, on a totally different subject, when Jeanne tried to confront Deena about a comment she heard during the night Deena claimed to be talking to Christy and Christy nodded. Hasn't it been established that since Christy can't see them at night she'd taken to sleeping through their late-night chats? Isn't that why she had such a strong reaction to the men using their lantern for her so she could participate in nighttime discussions?

Csnog

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 05:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
One thing we have to look at.

The men start looking around at who is the strongest and biggest threat when they merge.

They then focus on getting rid of each other instead of the women due to individual challenges.

Not1worry

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 06:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I do wonder if Dave filled the guys in on the new tribe they were going to. The editing makes it look as if Dave came back, delivered then news and 10 minutes later they were gone. I was expecting him to brief them a little on who was over there, namely that Shawna was sick and she'd be an easy 1st boot. Game-wise I'm sure it was much smarter for him to be quiet, but I thought he'd throw them a bone or two.

Webkitty

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 07:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just some Sunday morning ramblings......

The issue of men vrs women, and Dave filling in the guys before they went over to Jambaru. It would have been in his best interest not to do this. Let the chips fall where they may regarding Alex, Rob and Matt.
The men were never that tight as a tribe to begin with.
It would be foolish to think those three young guys are going to go over there and remain loyal to the mens alliance. And, as we see, Alex immediately fell for Shawna, and it looks like from the CBS site clues and the commercials Matt did too (or pretended to for whatever reason)
Why would Dave want those three to go over to Jambaru and take out the women when indivdual immunity challenges are right around the corner?
Matt, Alex and Rob are far stronger.
He was probably hoping that the three would end up taking out EACH OTHER, lol.

I think his strategy was to get on Heidi's good side, he already got on Jenna's good side, he probably wanted them both in his corner for the merge, he probably viewed them as weak physically and mentally and not a threat for IIC, but good to keep around for a voting block.
I see where he was going with all this. He was looking to form a new alliance, one where he would dominate the IIC. Maybe he figured that he was physically stronger than Butch and Roger too. So, we have Dave, the rocket scientist, the strongest of the new Butch, Roger, Heidi and Jenna alliance. He was probably hoping to take Roger or Heidi to the F2 spot. He knew from talking with Jenna that the other women had issues with Heidi. He also knew from the same conversation, that Jenna and Heidi would boot Deena in a heartbeat if they could hook up with a new alliance of men. He probably could see that Deena is smart and a threat.
Of course he was sincere when he approached Heidi to join him!
He also probably wants Christy gone because of her hearing loss, (admiration vote in the end) and because now that he is getting to know her up close 24/7, he can see what an incrediable young woman she is, he does NOT want to go up against her at the F2 mark.

Also, Heidi does not have the power over the men she thinks she does. She is NO threat to win the men over with her looks, she is delusional.
Rob has already commented that she is down to a "6" on the hotness scale, Dave probably saw that too.

Back at the new Jambaru, we know Rob wants nothing better than to take out Alex, and I bet he does next episode. The new Jambaru is self-destructing. For Dave, and for the new Tambaqui, this is a good thing. They will have an edge on IC, and won't have to go to TC until the merge, they will get a chance to bond, and form a new alliance, one that will be stronger than the old, mens alliance. (or the womens, for that matter)

The only problem here is that is looks like Butch finally makes a play to get in the game now. He sees his opportunity with Christy.
It looks like Dave's master plan might backfire. Butch pushes Dave out of the drivers seat with a newly formed alliance of Roger and Christy.
As far as how long Dave lasts in the game, there are no spoilers out there for him like there are for Heidi. He could be taken out as soon as they merge for being an IIC threat, or go all the way.
Time will tell.

But, I think the two main voting blocks will line up like this at the merge.

Dave, Heidi, Jenna, Rob, Deena

Butch, Roger, Christy, Shawna (she will be ticked that Jenna, Deena and Rob voted off Alex)

Matt will be the swing vote

Seamonkey

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 11:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
<drumroll> so, which way will Matt swing, hmmmm?

Pamy

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 11:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Sea!!
I am still thinking Matt might go this week, don't know why, just a hunch. I don't think he or Alex have had a lot of screen time so I am still not sure.

Curlyq

Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 12:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Good points. I'm confused about something though. Why does Rob want to take out Alex? I can understand Matt wanting Alex gone since the previews show the two of them going after Shawna, but what happened between Alex and Rob?

Also, I think it's worth noting that Heidi is a bit of a physical threat to everyone just because of her fitness level. She flew around like Supergirl in that first immunity challenge and I'm sure the guys will remember that. Unless they're given a weight-lifting challenge, I think Heidi could keep up with the guys in any physical challenge.

If the previews say that the next episode has Dave, Roger, and Butch disagreeing about who should go next that might suggest they're going back to tribal council this week. From the previews it looks like they're facing off on a spinning bridge, and you see Matthew spinning one of the old guys off. That might be the RC though.