Archive through February 27, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Joanna vs. Christy: Archive through February 27, 2003

Tabbyking

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 02:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
well, remember, i like my controversy, stirred, not shaken! lol

Becca

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 03:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know what maybe it was stupid, but I don't think it's Christy's place to say it.
I share the same faith as Joanne, at first I couldn't understand her problem with the idol, it's just a doll, I understand, but now that I think about it, I realize that I'd be a little uncomfortable with it because it is an idol and people at one time worshiped it. I'd still play the game, but I would probably stay away from it as much as possible.

Joanne was out of line by the way she went off on the idol; however, Christy shouldn't be disrespecting Joanne's religius beliefs. Who knows what else Christy may have said. I mean what if I told said that a religious Jew keeping Kosher is stupid? Or a Muslim staying away from pork is stupid? Do you see how disrespectful that is?

Just because she's deaf doesn't give her the right to do that. I heard that when Jeff commented on it, Jeff said someone told Christy about what happened that night, and Christy had to comment. (Implying that Christy should know better than to comment on these things.)

Gina8642

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 03:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Christy said she had made a mistake. JoAnna continued to go off on her. On top of that JoAnna ended it with saying something like 'Don't get in my face'. JoAnna was the one who jumped up and ran over 20+ feet to confront Christy.

I don't think JoAnna was wrong to be offended by Christy's comment, it's just the way she dealt with it. (I don't think even Christy thinks it's wrong)

Fruitbat

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I am not sure anyone ever worshiped that doll Survivor created and calling the immunity idol. It is just a token (and probably a souvenir sold in shops) to take back to camp when you win. An Oscar, sports cup, medal, etc. Just a playful token of the win.

Christy is allowed to call it silly as much as Joanna is allowed to be freaked at the symbolism she puts on it. I don't see a right and wrong here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and reactions. Their behaviours either serve them in this game or hinder them, it is their choice. I don't think Joanna did herself any favors. Christy will be OK around this issue, anyway.

Hermione69

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, I tried to stay out of this one and I almost made it!

"Just because she's deaf doesn't give her the right to do that."

What does her being deaf even have to do with her opinion about the Idol and whether or not she expresses that opinion? Christy didn't say it with the attitude of "I'm deaf so I should be allowed to say this." Additionally, it's my perception that they ALL thought it was stupid. Christy was the unfortunate soul that was overheard. And, like Gina and others have said, she tried to apologize.

IMHO, what is really stupid is Joanna's coming on a show like this if she is that offended by the Immunity Idol. I'm not saying it is stupid that she IS offended by it, but that she put herself in a game where this Idol is vitally important to the longevity of the tribe, and she not only refuses to touch it, but lectures everyone else on its evils as well. Hello? What is wrong with this picture? I personally do not believe she has any business being there if she feels that strongly against the Immunity Idol. Give the spot to another woman who has no qualms about winning that sucker for their team.

I do believe that the hand in the face wasn't a conscious decision to obstruct Christy's vision. Joanna was way too worked up to process that through, IMHO. I don't think she went after Christy deliberately either. I think it just happened.

All my perceptions, of course.

Squaredsc

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
frankly i think the whole religious, idol, thing was blown way out of proportion. do we know that she talked about it "all" night? or do we know that when deena? asked was she going to talk about it all night and joanna said yes, did she? cause when she said that, or when we were shown that i thought she was joking and that she didn't actually talk all nite talking about it.

i know this is invisible, cause i felt like it. im pms'g and feel millitant.

Grannyg

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Square, I love it when you are so mysterious!! When you are pms'g it gives you certain rights, so be sure and take advantage of them while you can!! LOL

Hermione69

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It could very possibly have been blown out of proportion. They love to manufacture that drama.

BTW, I hope my strong opinion did not offend anyone. <Tiptoeing out on eggshells....>

Squaredsc

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol grannyg, i also told dh to watch out. hermi, i wasn't offended but maybe after the pms goes away i may be.

Not1worry

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow, Becca, that was strange. My name is Becca too and I was thinking exactly what you wrote!

I noticed when Jeff first brought out the idol at the competition, Joanna noticably did not touch it. Jeff even asked her if she got a chance and she nodded. I knew then that she was having issues with it, just didn't realize how pushy she would be about them. As a self-proclaimed Jesus freak, I would deal with how I felt about the idol BEFORE I even went on the show. I get so mad when I see "Christians" go on shows and then act so horribly. Unfair, since I'm sure I'd be a mess out there too, but still you have it.

The worst I thought was Joanna's childish attitude of "You made your mistake first", and refusing to accept Christy's mature attempt to be concilliatory.

Kaili

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just don't get it. I mean, she has a right to feel how she does about it, but I don't see it as an idol in terms of idol worship. I doubt they worship it- they are just happy when they get it. It's symbolic. If the issue is thou shall not worship any gods before me or whatever- the issue then would be whether they worship the immunity idol more than God. I doubt they do, unless a person doesn't believe in God but taht's a whole other thing.

I wonder how Joanna feels about "American Idol"?

Emt911

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What I don't understand is, no one is praying to the Immunity Idol! No one is considering it--or worshipping it--as a false or other god. Joanna knows there is an 'idol' in Survivor. She knows the tribe who wins immununity takes it to their camp. Why did she go on the show if it had such major 'issues' for her?
To me, and this is 'to me', so don't bother jumping all over me, she seems like a real drama queen. I won't say she is 'stupid', but it wasn't really smart for her to even apply for this show, when she can't deal with a main part of it. The premise has always been to win the IC and avoid being booted. IMHO
I don't like getting buck in front of people, so I wouldn't go to a nudist camp.
I am scared of some bikers, so I wouldn't go to a known Hell's Angels' biker bar.
Maybe Joanna should not have gone on the show.

Covers head and runs!

Kaili

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think you need to duck and cover...or run and cover! And I agree and don't see what her religion has to do with a stupid symbol on the show. If she were to make it past the merge, will she avoid winning individual immunity?

Tabbyking

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
so if joanna somehow makes it to the merge, will she accept the immunity 'necklace', even though it is just another 'symbolic' item. the only reason it's called the necklace at that point is because the IC is individual once they merge. (well, if it's a real merge and not a 'live-next-to-each-other and spill your guts' type of camp, which was shii ann's downfall last survivor!)

Tabbyking

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
jinx!! kaili, i owe you a coke! you type faster than i do!

Jane_Bond

Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 07:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, I'm on board with the fact that Christy has the right to say whatever she wants when expressing a pesonal opinion. And yes, I thin many, including Jews, would think such things as Kosher meats, in this day and age, is a bit "stupid". It's all debateable. It's not a personal attack.

Christy said that moaning over the idol was stupid, she didn't say Joanna was stupid. If Joanna had a single fingernail of sense, she wouldn't waited for a moment when the tribe was gathered, like around the fire that night, and bring it up and explain why she thinks that it isn't stupid "for her" and she'd appreciate more respect.

And, Herm, I agree that the hand in the face thing wasn't a deliberate attempt to block Christy's ability to communicate, but it is endemic of a person's not considering Christy's communication requirements.

My grandpa and his siblings and many of their children are close to deaf (hearing is about 25% or less for most of them, we joke that weddings and funerals are like hearing aid conventions in my maternal family because everyone wears two!) and on the few occasions when I spoke facing away from grandpa or started talking to him while the TV was playing anywhere in the house (which he can hear for a hundred yards, but not hear a voice 6 feet away) I have caught holy hell! So, I know how important it is to take considerations for another persons abilties, and I realise how callous it is when people don't bother at all.

Just the same as carrying on a conversation with someone in a wheelchair when you tower over them or talking to children without crouching down. There are certain measures that are easy to take and are common sense to help keep communication channels between differently abled person clear and open.

Joanna attempted to shut that down for Christy with her childish handwaving. I agree it likely wasn't deliberate, but you really have to have your head up your own arse to not realise that a lip reader requires a clear line of sight to your own lips to understand when you are attempting to humilitate them!

You know, I am still shocked over how Joanna handled all of that. Paricularily someone of her profession and spirituality. If she had confronted me in such a way I would have to have my shoulder surgically removed from her mouth after ramming my fist in it! What a bullying jerk.

(OK, now this is the post everyone that will make everyone go, "on second thought, maybe she isn't all that"

Emt911

Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 08:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Still with you, Jane

Llkoolaid

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 06:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
[[you really have to have your head up your own arse to not realise ]] ROFL The mental picture!

Marameko

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 07:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I still have not watched the show from last week which I taped. My impression however from what I am reading is that Joanna needs to go. Surely she has watched the show in the past and knew of the idol. The idol could have easily been called the "Immunity Trophy" as that is exactly what it is.
I don't have much time for drama queens and it is hard enough for me to get into this version of Survivior which I normally enjoy with all this negativity.

Jane_Bond

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 08:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I guess, if you had your head up your own arse, Christy wouldn't have a clear line of sight to your lips, would she?

Tabbyking

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 09:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
unless you were walking away from her...

"read my hips!"

Gina8642

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 10:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have read or seen that JoAnna never watched the show before, so she probably really didn't understand the idol, or the benefit of being under the radar. Is that an excuse? Not really.

I think her objections to the idol are well founded in christian beliefs. Does that mean you get to keep your tribemates up at night moaning about it? No. Does that mean it is ok for you to go ballistic on another tribemember who doesn't agree with you? No. Does that mean you get to shove your hand in another person's face and then blame them for the confrontation. No.

So, I guess my point is, JoAnna had a point. It was the way she dealt with it that was just really, really poor. However, people are allowed to have faults, including christians. Just because she has strong beliefs doesn't mean she is perfect, or even that she is claiming to be perfect. I always thought christianity (among other things) was about forgiving sin, not being without sin.

That said - Would I vote JoAnna out if I was on that tribe?

Yes, in a heartbeat.

Sawheel17

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 10:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
IMO,If you are a Christian, you don't have to go around saying this and that.I think you show it more by your actions. Joanna doesn't do this. I like some of the others here, don't understand why she went on the show. Her actions toward Christy was unbelievable.Not just the shouting but the look of anger at TC, just did it for me. I think Christy will be ok. I hope anyway in the words of a friend on this board"Lawd, let it be Johanda voted off this week."

Fruitbat

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 11:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Christians really believe that having an idol as a stage prop is something sacreligious? I find that hard to believe. I do think it is Joanna's own intrepretation of something she read though.

Makes no difference, she bought her ticket out of there with the way she handled herself.

Sawheel17

Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 11:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Agree Fruitbat!