Archive through December 07, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Episode 12 - The Tides Are Turning:
Archive through December 07, 2002
Webkitty | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:14 am     I think it is Ted who feels rebuffed. Remember that Ted went on and on about what a tight alliance he and Brian had in the beginning, and now we see footage of him acknowledging that isn't so. I think he blames Clay. He wants his old alliance back with Brian. Helen is willing to help him get rid of Clay so that can happen He is shown with Helen writing initials in the sand. We have already seen her attempt to vote Clay out, so this makes sense, to me at least! The initials in the sand are H,T,B (not sure of the exact order) and a "J" (for Jan) underneath. This could mean that these two agree on the final three, with Jan as a fourth, (meaning they intend on voting out Clay) or, they are saying they have three votes to get rid of Jan. Anyway, I think its Ted  |
Babyruth | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:41 am     I just watched the tape (great episode!) and agree that it sounds like Ted feels rebuffed from the Brian/Clay alliance, and seeks an alliance with the women. I really like Ted a lot. And Helen. They're my fave two. |
Fruitbat | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:42 am     That is good Grooch. LOL And Webkitty too. I do think Ted is the likely one. Of course, Ted could go running back to Brian with this info and they would all see Helen as trouble. |
Car54 | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 12:09 pm     This is based on nothing but a mish mash of partial spoilers...but I think the next boot order will be: Helen, Ted, Jan. If Jan makes it to F3, then remember the Penny spoiler...the people did not really know the players...they said the little guy, the blond shaggy haired guy, and the blond girl. Jan has bushy blond hair...if they saw her from the back...she could be the blond girl. Close enough. |
Moondance | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 12:42 pm     *tap tap tap* Waiting on Webkitty's in depth analysis because she is getting really good at this! |
Webkitty | Friday, December 06, 2002 - 01:07 pm     LOL Moon! <puts finger to head, trying to devine the future> I think no matter what scheme gets cooked up next, Clay will win immunity, I can't see another way he can move forward at this point. (I am going on the assumption that the spoiler is true) More later in the week |
Alaginger | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 05:57 am     I agree with Webkitty that Clay will win immunity, to assure his staying. I really think that will happen. The only other thing I can see, and it is pretty far-fetched, is that Clay and Brian assure Jan the #3. I read somewhere that "Brian has assured C/T/H each the F2 with him, so whose to say he hasn't also done this with Jan" and sworn her to keep quiet about it. If this happens, Helen and Ted will not stand a chance without immunity. |
Fruitbat | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 06:18 am     I am very curious to see the mood in the camp. It has got to be over the top strained. There will be a lot of private talks. Brian is in a difficult position and I do not see how he can win against anyone at this point. He has spread himself very thin. Helen, Clay and Ted feel they are with him to the end. Jan looks like the safe bet to go this week. |
Fruitbat | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 06:36 am     I am hoping either Ted or Helen win IC. I want to see if Clay remains by choice. I am thinking he and Brian have the tightest alliance and this senario would confirm that. |
Car54 | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 06:39 am     Oh, very good thinking Bat, If he doesn't win IC and they keep him that speaks volumes. |
Awareinva | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:32 am     MsBat says: Brian is in a difficult position and I do not see how he can win against anyone at this point. He has spread himself very thin. Helen, Clay and Ted feel they are with him to the end. We must remember that the Suckies will determine the winner- they hold the majority on the jury (4 vs. 3) so whoever got in best with them will win. I think Brian did a lot of schmoozing them when they were around and let Clay do all the "dirty" work. Brian isn't stupid and he has got to be joined at the hip with Clay at this point... he knows Jake doesn't like Clay and can influence the others (even if he's not supposed to, you know they talk at Loser Lodge). Helen sort of bonded with the Sooks too- she was thinking ahead. No one should want to take Jan to the F2- the Suckies probably loved her as the bemused old lady. Clay should be the man of the hour who everyone will want to take to F2 (think Danielle in BB3). I would love to see a Helen/Brian F2 because I think they are playing the game the best and probably both have an equal chance with the Suckies. Helen would do the honorable thing and take Brian, but that boy is out to win and if he can... he'll take Clay to F2. Jan's vote may be the swing next week and reveal if she's tighter with Ted (which has been hinted at but not revealed) or Brian (which would be a total secret- the only alliance of Brian's that hasn't been shown). It's gonna be an interesting TC- maybe the most interesting of the season. |
Fruitbat | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:48 am     I am thinking that everyone will vote independently. I am not at all convinced that Sook will vote as a block. They are all individuals with different views and positions in the game. Brian is a strange one and his distant superior manner could have turned some off. You just don't know. Clay has been arrogant yet he is friendly and personable. I think he is fun to be with and the source of some good times. If the Chewy jury members feel they were badly burned by Brian it would only take 1 of the Sooks to vote with them for Clay. This is assuming TDT is correct with F2. |
Webkitty | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:59 am     I need to tweek my above post. I still thinks its Ted who feels betrayed, but not by Brian. This is Brian's game to lose. I don't think he is in a difficult position and here is why. Early on, Brian, Ted and Clay made a pack for the final three, Ted was shown in a confessional saying so. Clay and Ted may have thought/hoped that THEY would be the ones going to F2 with Brian, (male ego) but I don't think Brian ever actually came out and said those words to either one of them. Ted was shown TRYING to get Brian to commit, but as far as I can remember, he didn't. Jan is not in any alliance, and they were keeping her for the first CG boot when it became necessary. We now know from Jake that she said she just wanted to make the jury. I believe it, and I'm betting the rest there do to. They probably also know that she is not the type to hold a grudge. They probably all feel fond of her but someone had to be choosen as the first to go. Then, when the Ghandia thing happened, they brought Helen in as a forth. I don't think there is any big secret that Brian is keeping from them. It was agreed that they would be the final four, and go from there. All of them HOPED they would make it to F2 but I don't think Brian PROMISED any of them that he would MAKE it happen. How could he? Its a roll of the dice with immunity challenges. Then, Clay decided to rock the boat by trying (and suceeding) to get votes against Ted with the Sook Jai. Previous votes were not counted last season, but who is really to say WHAT will happen this time? Maybe he was hedging his bets, just in case this comes into play somehow down the line. Ted could have picked up one more vote along the line and it would give Clay an edge if it does come into play. Helen and Ted know this and now don't trust him or like him and want him out of the pact. He has probably done some other weasley things that I can't remember right now, or don't know about. Helen and Ted decide they need to get rid of Clay now, and will keep Jan until next time. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brian going along with this, he was shown considering it after Helen presented it to him, but imo, made the right choice to boot Jake, from a game point angle. I think Brian, Helen and Ted discussed it and came to a mutual decision that Jake had to go, and they decided Clay would be next, but we weren't show this. Brian, Helen and Ted are still on the same page. So, this week, the target is Clay, but he wins immunity, so they have to boot Jan. If the spoiler is true, and Brian and Clay are the F2, it doesn't nessesarily mean that Brian is more loyal to Clay than Ted or Helen, it could just mean that Clay goes on an immunity run, and chooses to take Brian at the end. With this scenario, I don't see Helen or Ted feeling betrayed by Brian at all. I DO see Brian winning hands down over Clay as the sole Survivor  |
Fruitbat | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 09:21 am     >>>Ted was shown TRYING to get Brian to commit, but as far as I can remember, he didn't.<<< He did commit. Very low key but they knocked knuckles. Even Brian said in a diary talk that he would honor that alliance with Ted until it was not to his advantage. He made a similar vague pact with Clay. Both Ted and Clay latched right onto these deals. Helen thinks they have a bond as she said to her husband. They are not getting Brian as far as I can see. We see his talks to the camera and I don;t think any of them are seeing how fluid these agreements really are. Especially Helen. This is why I think Brian may be in trouble. I can see him making F2 but I am not convinced he can win. I see Jan as the next to go. This is going to be an interesting show, especially if Clay does not win IC. If Clay wins IC, it would be an opportunity to go for Brian but they won't. |
Webkitty | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:29 am     Ok, so now we have to figure out if Clay wins the IC this week, I bet MB doesn't give us a clue, its too close to the end now. I would be shocked to see anyone but Clay or Jan go this week. I just don't think the alliance is that tight between Brian and Clay just because Jake went last week. I can see Brian going along to boot Clay this week, but Clay wins immunity. Helen and Ted would have nothing to hold against Brian for that. He tried. Maybe the same scenario plays out the next week too, and Clay wins that. See where I'm going with this? lol I think some are assuming that because of the TDT spoiler, Brian backstabs Helen and Ted for Clay, which might not be the case. Maybe Helen or Ted get booted because of a purple rock (or something) and not because Brian had to choose. There are all sorts of possibilites. I would love for that spoiler to be wrong, and see Helen win this, I really would. I guess we'll know more on Thursday. Brian will win over Clay IF they do make F2, yep, he will I can see a sweep, I don't think anyone will vote for Clay to win. Especially if it goes down like I said, Clay going on an immunity run. I can see Ted and Helen saying: that little weasel! And not blaming Brian, especially if he somehow doesn't have to choose when the time comes. Maybe past votes WILL count this year, and Ted will get booted because of that, he could hate Clay with a red hot passion! Sook Jai already doesn't like Clay and would vote for anyone to win over him. He was the one who wanted to bring Shii Anne into the CG fold to begin with, and we all know how the SJ jury feels about her. Clay going to Penny's wedding means nothing. They were all invited, Clay was the only CG ballsy enough to actually go. jmo, of course! |
Fruitbat | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:57 am     I think the alliance between Brian and Clay is tight because Brian sees his chances of winning against him better and he has for awhile. Brian is playing to win. That is why his alliances are loose and deceptive. He was playing a wait and see game. I don't want Clay to win IC this week so I can see if my take is correct. Clay is smart, he is a good candidate to win this IC, damn it. I do agree that we will never know if it plays out the way you suggest. Clay wins IC's and they never have the opportunity. I doubt Brian would ever spill just who was his tighter alliance at the end. His relationship with the others is worth keeping but more importantly he has designs on opportunities this exposure may bring and does not want to be seen any other way than the most excellent player. It is not his way to say too much. The mystery will remain. Brian will win over Clay if Brian is not exposed. I am hoping he is. Not because of any favoritism. I want good viewing. |
Car54 | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 11:35 am     Bat, I don't think Brian did really commit...it is like when someone asks if you agree and you kind of grunt...you didn't say yes, you didn't say no...open to interpretation. Not nice but it happens. AWARE...where have you been honey! I missed you! Brian needs Clay because Clay is going to be less liked by the jury than Brian. That is the simple fact. And the danger there is that Clay is clever or witty enough to overcome it during the Jury questions. Brian is not witty... he is very straight, and in that situation, you have to think on your feet, and one sentence can come between you and the million. Clay is smart, funny and facile. That is his biggest asset. |
Moondance | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 11:55 am     I never heard Brian commit ... he made them feel like he committed but never said the words...big difference. Like Jake said, "Brian is a politician, he talks in circles...etc…" MsKitty you are right on target with your Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:59 am post |
Webkitty | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:18 pm     Thanks MsMoon OKAY, I went over to Survivorfever and they have pics up that I haven't seen at Sux. It looks the the RC is: ~Guess Your Weight Loss~ They are show holding their bio pics (so they refresh their memory of what they looked like at that time) Then, at Sux, there is a pic of Clay checking himself out in a mirror. Its got to be the weight loss challenge. And it looks like there is a super challenge this week (more on that later) so I am saying the weight loss is RC and the super challenge is IC. Whoever wins the RC gets the Trailblazer. Helen,Clay,Jan and Brian are show in the back seat with big smiles. Ted is probably in the front with the driver.(who might be Jeff) I think they are given a little test run to pump them up before the challenge. Also, it looks like whoever wins the RC, also gets a day/night at a spa (in addition to the SUV) probably with a hot shower, food, and what looks like a massage. And I bet there is WINE involved. (unless the losers get wine to drown their sorrows, "left to STEW in their bitterness" but I don't think so) I think whoever wins the RC is the one who drinks too much and shows another side to their personality. I would bet on one of the women winning this. Women tend to know weight loss better then men. I know I could tell if I lost 20lbs and what it would look like, but my husband would have no clue. I also think Brian might know because he has been an actor, but I think he will throw this RC even if he has a good idea. He knows they know about his cars, and I think he is smart enough to know that it wouldn't be in his best interest to win this paticular challenge. So, between Helen and Jan, who would be most likely to roll around on the ground after winning. My guess is Jan. She has an animated way about her and I can see her doing it. We already know she loves to imbibe, and maybe when she goes to the spa, she finally gets all she wants and we see another side to her. I could flip this around and say Helen wins, it would be out of character for her to roll around on the ground, but she seems to want a new car. We haven't seen her drunk yet, so who knows what lurks? Most posters at Sux are saying Ted wins this because he is not in the back seat with the rest and must be the one driving. This makes no sense to me all. The rest of them are squeezed into the back seat, there is no room for Ted. Plus, they all look so happy, this shot has to be before the challenge, not after anyone has won. They are also saying that Ted would be the most likely to roll around on the ground because he has done it before. Maybe. I don't see Ted being able to guess his weight loss better than Helen, Jan or even Brian. Also, if Ted wins this, then he is the one who drinks too much. He has stated that he doesn't drink. As far fetched as it may seem, he seems a likely candidate for the wine part to me. This post is too long as it is, so I won't go into my reasoning on that right now. Except to say, there is one pic of him at SV looking hung over if I've ever seen it. There were some pics of the super challenge, but I'll put that in another post. I almost lost this one once. |
Halfunit | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:24 pm     Just butting in to say that a simple answer for Ted being in the front seat might be the length of his legs(?). ½ |
Car54 | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:41 pm     From Survivor Fever: Transcript of current promo: VoiceOver: VO: These are the last five survivors. HELEN: We started out as a band of misfits. VO: Loyalty kept them together. HELEN: We never gave up. VO: But CBS Thursday things are about to change. CLAY: Use everybody you can on the way to the top. VO: They compete against each other. TED: I'm physically and mentally strong. JP: Ready...Go. VO: For the ultimate survivor prize. JAN: Oh my God. VO: Only two episodes left. HELEN: I'm definitely playing both sides of the fence. BRIAN: She owes me and she knows it. VO: So don't miss a minute. CLAY: Here we go again, the circus is coming to town. |
Webkitty | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:46 pm     Bingo, Halfunit, you hit the nail on the head |
Halfunit | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:59 pm     Kitty - maybe / maybe not. It was just the first thing that popped into my head. I have a large framed husband, and it is VERY hard for him to sit in the backseat of any vehicle. Sometimes the obvious answer is the hardest one to come up with!!! ( I speak from experience, lol ) ½ Ed. to say, Kitty - you had already mentioned that Ted wouldn't fit in the back as the rest were squeezed in there. I just realized I stole your thought without knowing it - I apologize!! |
Tabbyking | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 05:05 pm     my husband will lose .03 pounds and tell me he 'lost 10', so he would be 'wishful' but wrong!! i agree that more women would be accurate than men, but one of the guys may surprise us! (who knows, maybe one of their wives said during their quick visits, 'honey, you must have lost 27.08 pounds!') |
Webkitty | Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 05:10 pm     Halfunit, it makes sense. He MIGHT be in the front with the driver because he won, but then that would mean he was the one to get drunk, IF the winner gets a spa day, which we don't know for certain at this time. They all look too happy in that vidcap, it has to been BEFORE the challenge to get them pumped. |
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