Does Survivor cast black men in a bad light?
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Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:10 pm     I thought Clarence was shown in a ood light with just one exception--eating the extra food. Other than that, I thought he did great and was shown well. He took Tom's rantings with class not once but twice. He was working hard everyday with the daily activities--and he worked very hard in all challenges. He showed a good sense of humor, and tried getting along with others, although wasn't always welcomed with open arms. It didnt help that Tom, Lex and Ethan and Mama Kim had their alliance form almost immediately. He showed class through all of the days he was there. |
Llkoolaid | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:50 pm     Do you really think Clarence was shown in a good light, I don't. The very first show there was the bean thing and it was brought up evry show until he was gone. Don't you think they really showed a bit much of good ole boy Tom putting him in his place. There was a cloud over his head from day one, whether or not that was his own fault I don't know, I can still see the smirk on Diane's face when he got the whole blame. I can't remember anyone taking his word when he said he opened them for Diane. I agree that he was hard working and was a team player but all I can remember is Tom and how his comments about Clarence were about how he was just letting him know where he stood. Tom voted for Clarence every week and every week we got to hear Tom tell us how he was teaching Clarence a lesson. It didn't matter how good Clarence did we had to be reminded every week just in case we forgot how sneaky Clarence was on the first day. Maybe you are right and I am wrong and maybe my impression of the way Clarence was portrayed is based on the fact that I really liked Clarence and hated Tom and his red necked ways. Who knows, we all see things differantly but thanks for answering my question. It is nice when people respond to your post even if we don't agree 100%. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 09:33 pm     Kool, you wrote: <Can anyone tell me when on survivor a black man has been portrayed in a good light. I don't mean just one or two shots of them working but an overall picture> The food thing was one or two shots. My other comments were meant to cover how he was portrayed the rest of the time. I think we look at what you talked about a bit differently. When you talk about what Tom said and did, I see that being how Tom was portrayed--not Clarence. Clarence's actions were, IMHO, shown to be pretty true of his time there. If Tom rags on him or votes for him each time, to me that is the show portraying Tom as not liking Clarence--not of Clarence doing something bad, or being shown by MB to be doing something bad. Hey Kool, no problem not seeing things the same way--that is what makes the board enjoyable--discussing things and being able to not see eye to eye and keeep in about the topic. |
Seamonkey | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 10:12 pm     I could never understand why TOM lasted so long and I sure don't think he was mis-portrayed. Rob hasn't made racist statements that I remember (yet) but certainly alienates me with his homophobic and chauvenist cr*p.. and yes, I know he just says it to the camera, but.. one of the questions asked of Sarah in an interview was were they aware of what others said to the cameras and she said yes, some of the time they could.. the interviews weren't done all that far away from the others.. but still we don't know if any of them have heard what Rob is saying. I thought Clarence made those early mistakes but came across to me as a strong player in all the challenges and I don't remember him reacting as strongly as I think I would have to Tom's comments. I would not have maintained my cool around Tom. |
Tbear | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 10:26 pm     I don't see this as a racial thing or that we are misreading Sean's character, the man said right to Rob, "Let's sit on the beach tomorrow and not do a thing." His, Rob's and Sara's laziness has been previlent and consistent throughout the show. I don't see it as a black thing. I don't know how MB picks contestants exactly; I do know that they pick a cute girl, a sexy siren, and a stud they stated in an article. I would like to see MB get rid of any stereotypes for sure because that has nothing to do with survival and it isn't fair to people who honestly want to partake in the show who don't fit these sterotypes.  |
Maris | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 10:35 pm     You can look at any personality and assign a "stereotypical" characteristic to them. For me, I look at the players and see them as a player. I don't look into the sociological implications of the characters' behavior. I just enjoy the game and the interactions of the characters, now if yu are going to ask me what I think will happen this week and who will get the boot, my money is on the lazy white boy. |
Resortgirl | Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 04:34 am     Underdog, I don't believe everything I see in the media... I am just saying that I only have that as a reference. I wish I could expose myself and My children to a more diverse group of people but unfortunately minorities don't often go on "northwoods" vacations. We did have a group of people last year rent the entire resort for a week. They were Japanese. They themselves commented on the fact that this is probably the most "oriental" people we have ever seen in one place. They are all coming back again this year and I am so glad. They were an awesome bunch of people. And trust me, I've had some not so awesome bunches (mostly young, white adult males incidently) I hope in the future that we have more minorities visit or relocate to our area. And I have commented on Robs laziness... but he doesn't point out the fact that he is "white" and does't bring up slavery. He doesn't work because he doesn't want too. It seems that Sean doesn't work to prove some kind of point. I've said it before and I'll say it again... I don't dislike Sean because of the color of his skin... I just don't like the kid! |
Mssilhouette | Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 01:00 pm     I think the article has some points and its main purpose was to stimulate thought and discussion, which it has done. Somehow I think that with the remaining reality shows that this topic may always be around. Be it due to casting, editing or just the contestants themselves. I think if casting was more diverse this issue might fade a bit. If there were 4 black people (and I'm using that race because of the topic) on the island instead of just the 2 then perhaps it wouldn't seem so bad. But when you only have 1 male and 1 female it as if they are there to represent the whole of that race. Even if it is not true, it has the illusion of being so. So when one of the 2 repsentatives is irritating or "lazy" or whatever negative label he/she is carrying for the show. That can reinforce some views people have of a certain race. MB has to get a clue when selling shows in an American market. There are race problems in this country while his show is not responsible for trying to fix any of them. I do think MB should at least make his show look more like the country. That's a very tiny concession that would have great results. It wouldn't effect any creative ability or hinder his show in the least. All it would do is give the viewer a better look at what america is really like. By the way I don't know about CBS having trouble finding people of color. I do remember them showing the long line of people for the Survivor auditions here in LA. There were some CRAZY folks there but there were also plenty of people of color. So I think that line is just a cop-out. Survivor 5...16 castaways with 8 people of color! Now that would be something |
Squaredsc | Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:05 pm     mssil...that sounds like a great idea for survivor 5 but unfortunately not very realistic. i don't think that on the whole america is ready for that. just look at all of the "black" shows that only last for a season or two and thats only if they are sitcoms, any serious show involving minorities just doesn't last past 1 season even though they may have great ratings. so as much as i would like to see that, i don't think its going to happen in the near future. but i can't wait till S5 to see if the same stereotypes are continued.  |
Mssilhouette | Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 11:59 pm     You can't get any more realistic than showing what America is really like. By the way who says that amercian isn't ready for that? It's not some major change in television. It's not unrealistic to have half of the 16 people being of color. I never said they ALL had to be black. What I do think is unrealistic is the notion that America isn't ready to see the same races of people that they see every day. I think those network casting folks need to quit trying to spoonfeed the viewing public. Most of the time the reason all those "black" shows don't last for a season or two is because network and advertisers keep trying to mess with them. An example of that was All American Girl, the first all Asian prime time sitcom. The ratings did well until the network kept trying to change it and finally managed to screw it up. It's not America that needs to get ready but those who work in television. Frankly I'm getting really tired of being told what I'm ready for. Don't decide for me, I'm intellgent enough to make that decision on my own. If I don't like what I see I won't watch, but I sure as heck want to at least see the show I'm going to make decision on. Anyway, that's my two cents. Square, this was more of a general comment addressing a question you brought up. |
Squaredsc | Monday, April 01, 2002 - 06:16 am     i totally agree mssil, and i liked american girl myself until they changed it. and you are right, it's the powers that be in the network that tell us what we want to see.  |
Bidasea | Monday, April 01, 2002 - 09:14 am     I'd like to see 8 women on a team vs 8 men the the other team...I think the women would have held their own this season.. |
Whowhere | Monday, April 01, 2002 - 09:42 am     I thought MB did an excellent job casting Cassandra on Big Brother. She was successful, extremely intelligent, and very level-headed. I loved that woman!! I think she represented very well. Remember those awesome stories she told? I really admire(d) her!! |
Mssilhouette | Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:18 pm     Um I don't think MB did Big Brother, I thought that was Arnold Shaprio Prod.(sp) Sorry about all the typos in my previous post. It was late and I was running on ranting speed (I misspelled intelligent, sheesh) LOL But my point is there just the same. |
Whowhere | Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:34 pm     You're right, my bad - perhaps MB needs some help from AS. |
Auntiemike | Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 01:01 pm     I agree, Missil.. A show survives if it is good not because of the ethniticity of the actors. Or, it survives because it is placed in a prime time and is good. I guess there are some factors that can doom a show but I sure hope the race/color issue is NOT one of them! We're a "Rainbow Family" so we like to see a little bit of everyone. |
Twiggyish | Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 01:21 pm     This is sort of in the same line but a bit off topic. They cast Tom in the role of country hick last season. He does not represent people who live in the south. They cast Rob as your Godfather Italian type. He doesn't represent the Italian population, either. I totally agree that people get "impressions" from watching shows like Survivor. But, we can ONLY hope people are intelligent enough to realize these are individuals and not whole representatives of races, cultures or regions. I don't see Sean as a problem, though. He has a pretty good strategy going. If you look at Hunter, he brought the focus upon himself by assuming the role of leader. Sean, on the other hand, is staying out of the way. Plus, we are being shown only one side of him. It is entirely possible Sean might turn out to have the best plan of all. |
Twiggyish | Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 05:18 pm     I loved Cassandra, too. But, that was a different show. Vee is a true team player and a person to be admired. I can't see where she is considered a stereotype. |
Llkoolaid | Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 05:25 pm     I don't either Twiggish unless being a called a smart lady is a stereotype. I like her and think she represents women well. |
Hippyt | Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 12:54 pm     All TV: 'Survivor' census Tuesday, April 09, 2002 LETTERS, ALL TV gets letters, and this week's mailbag has letters about "Survivor," the World Trade Center disaster and an actress whose career is starting to thrive. Surviving stereotypes Dear Alan: I thought your article about whether "Survivor" casts black men in a bad light was very interesting. One of the best points was made by Robert Thompson of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University, who points out that since Mark Burnett only casts one African-American man per season, there's no one to provide a counterbalance if that one man acts in a negative way. The same is generally true for MTV's "The Real World," another reality-based show. I always thought that it would be interesting if the producers of "The Real World" would flip their usual casting procedures and instead select six African-Americans and one white person. How would people react in a situation where the racial proportions are different from what we're used to? Maybe Mark Burnett should consider producing a "Survivor" where a majority of the contestants, say 12 or even 14 of the 16, are African-American? -- Michael Porter, Bound Brook Dear Alan: My own take on this issue -- apart from all the other fine issues you outlined about not having other black people to balance negative stereotypes and the fact that almost everybody comes off badly on these shows -- involves a simple observation. Most black people in America live in urban environments. That means many of us don't go camping or hiking. We don't have a background in naturalism or survivalism. So many of the problems I've seen folks like Gervase, Sean and Ramona have on the show come from not knowing how to handle themselves in the outdoors. Another dynamic I think people miss is that many black people are not used to dealing with white people on intimate terms. Even black people who work with white people every day...go home to mostly-black environments. They are not comfortable living with white people in close quarters and often make social faux pas or have bad personal reactions because they are on unfamiliar social ground. I'd love to see BET do a version of "Survivor" where one or two white folks have to hang in the 'hood for a month. Maybe then we'd see how these images play out in a different environment. -- Eric Deggans, TV critic, St. Petersburg Times Alan says: Those are both very interesting suggestions. Again, I don't think the "Survivor" producers, or the "Real World" producers, or the "Big Brother" producers are racist and are going out of their way to cast black male contestants to play the bad guy. But when there's only one black man per show -- and always in his 20s, an age when male contestants of any color tend to cause problems -- if he behaves badly, there's no one to counterbalance that stereotype. It might not match the census, but the "Survivor" producers should consider including more than one black man and one black woman next time. Or, failing that, at least cast a completely different type, like a 37-year-old firefighter with six kids who doesn't have time for nonsense. The producers obviously can't control the way people behave within the game, but they can limit the risk of getting stuck with another slacker like Sean Rector by going in a new casting direction. |
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