Archive through April 23, 2002
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The ClubHouse: Archives: DING DONG NO MORE PAGONG-ing!!!!!!: Archive through April 23, 2002

Squaredsc

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 09:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
sorry folks but my internet was down all weekend so i haven't had a chance to comment, and i wasn't really going to make anymore comments about race 'cause been there, done that, but julie im not understanding the "...i think it was kind of mean for some here to delight in it."?

do you mean that we shouldn't have enjoyed his getting kicked off? or we shouldn't have enjoyed sean's "bet on the black" comment(which once again i will say was in a movie and i guess wesley snipes was being racist in that as well)? well i enjoyed john's getting kicked off 'cause he and his click were just so cocky that they needed to be taken down a peg; i also loved sean's "bet on the black" comment, if john said "bet on the white" i personally would have laughed also. imo neither matters to me, i take it in the spirit it was given which was a joke.
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i can't remember who made this comment, but it was about all of the people voted off said that sean kept bringing up race....i only remember reading about gabe and sarah being asked about that. was rob/hunter/peter/(i can't remember the other lady's name) asked about that?? someone refresh my memory even though this is off topic you can put it on another thread if you like.

Julieboo

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 09:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
No, no. no. Enjoy the fact that he got kicked off. I enjoy it when certain people get kicked off. That is not what I meant at all. I just found it mean when people said some stuff about him crying and they hoped he'd never live it down, etc. Maybe I was/am overly sensitive. I mean I cringed when he cried and then laughed, but I found some comments here to be really harsh. But the whole "fun"of the game is to be happy when your "foes" get kicked off.

And the Sean thing, I do kinda like how entertaining he can be. The same way I liked how Rob was stirring things up. I think Sean keeps bringing race into every episode. Like that has something to do with this game. It's not how the other members says he talks about race, it's when I see HIM talking about race. Maybe it's the editing, but he sure does bring race up a lot.

Lancecrossfire

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 09:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi Square. I took Julie's comment (and may have done so wrongly) to mean that some of us were mean to to delight in the way he left (ie, his speech).

I am not trying to speak for her--just wanted to say how I took it becuase it was different than how you did.

As far as Hunter and others, I believe Hunter and Patricia both indicated Sean was the only one to bring up anything related to waste. Hunter specifically said he was not aware of any tension related to race. I don't remember anything about what Rob or Peter said either.

Car54

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 09:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Didn't Sean say in the very first episode that he was "representin'"? I took the "bet on black" as a joke too, as I did his applying John's kiss of death to his behind. Sean is the one who brings up race the most, but he is also funny and was great to watch in the last episode.

I was glad to hear in John's chat that he is someone who gets emotional easily. I do too, and I think if I was hungry for 24 days, had slept in rain and storms on the ground, had been under a lot of physical and mental stress, when it was over, I would cry too, from sheer relief and exhaustion and disappointment.

Personally, I kind of liked John, he really gave it all he had, and he played hard...not necessarily the way I would play, but I love how much he put into the experience. I was kind of disappointed in how many people made fun of his crying in his final words. :)

Whoami

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 10:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I liked how John played hard. I didn't like the delusional "I am in charge" garbage he kept doing. The clincer for me was how he said Neleh and Paschal were supporting HIS success in the game! That is just downright stupid to think that ANYONE would come and play the game specifically for someone else to win!

Car54

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 10:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, he lost his mind a little there, got carried away...Lex did the same thing in S3...got a bit too carried away with the game.

In John's defense, he had his experience with Gabe, who was not playing defensively, and he probably was applying that same way of thinking to the fairly passive (until the next day) Neleh and Paschel, assuming they were playing like Gabe.
Dumb, yes... but again, it is not unusual for a player to kind of lose perspective.

Julieboo

Monday, April 22, 2002 - 10:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance was right (as usual!) I didn't like what some posts said about John's departure. Not that he kicked off. (Hope that makes sense). I thought some posts were mean about him crying. I just don't think it is right that some actually got pleasure from his pain. That's all.

I did like John. (Seems I don't agree with the majority, as I like Blake & Paige and Team Guido in TAR and I like Richard and John in Survivor.)

Jville

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 09:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it's fair to say that there are a few WAY too oversensitive people in here. I thought it WAS funny that he cried like a baby and frankly, I still do. I could see if we were laughing at him crying because he lost a close relative or something to that effect, but come on people, it's a game. He was crying because he thought he had it in the bag but got kicked off and lost his opportunity to cash in $1 million. That, to me, is hilarious!

And, as far as Sean goes. Some of you insist on dissecting everything he says in an attempt to find something offensive. It was a joke. Some of us thought it could qualify as the quote of the year.

You're not alone Squaredsc. Some white people get it and some don't. What can I say?

Squaredsc

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
oh ok, i get it now julieboo, sorry im a little dense sometimes. oh i like blake/paige also. but not team guido, liked the way richard/john played the game....
back to the topic, do you all think that the pagong may start again??
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Julieboo

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 09:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi Square, so we agree on 75%. That's pretty good.

And Jville I do not think that anyone here dissects what Sean says. He mentions race at least once an episode. You have to at least admit that. I like that Sean can joke. I don't like that he mentions race every episode. That's my opinion.
...and I laughed at John too. As I said before, my complaint was that I didn't like how some posters here got such pleasure from his pain.

Fruitbat

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 10:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I watched this show in NY, did not check Acme and was surrounded with fans. We screamed so long when Neleh crossed over dragging the dense Pappy with her we missed some dialog. I loved it!

Grooch I agree with all you have said.

It seems clear that Tammy, Zoe and Robert are the ones in danger. Could there be another twist back to old ties? I don't think so. It I were Pappy and Neleh I would not forget the coconut scene so quickly. Although I do suspect Pappy to be vulnerable and easily swayed. If there is a racist on board here, he would be my guess. He has not nor will he show it but his strong statement "I am *not* joining an allinace with Sean" rung in my ears.

I will throw in a comment about the race thing. All of us make cultural references. I was a hippy and my conversation is often peppered with drug references. I do not take drugs nor was I stonned out in the 60's but I will say, "take the needle out of your arm", "what are you on and will you share it?", "what are you smoking crack?" etc. and these expressions reflect those roots. I see others doing the same and we are never called druggies. Sean is using the language from his background as well. I am sure he and John were very much in tune with each other and fully understand what playing this game is all about.

I was glad to see John go and I liked him. I wanted his alliance to be brought to their knees and my wish has come true.

I am enjoying the game aspect more this time and welcome the twists and turns. What a treat.

Square, I think pagonging in the true definition :) is impossible now. It means one team wipes out another before turning on their own.

Squaredsc

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 11:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
thanks ms. bat, as always i love your comments. how about the term re-gong?? i know its corny, going over to the plot/plan side to see if i need to change from my tammy vote.

Fruitbat

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 11:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
How about just, gong the shit out of the once overly confident whities?

Shakes

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 11:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Jville, my new found friend, thanks for helping me out! I am the guilty party who said "I hope John never lives down the crying..." etc., etc. that offended Julieboo. Thanks for your post...I couldn't have said it better myself.

Julieboo, you said earlier that you are sensitive and that you liked John, so, I'm going to chalk up your displeasure with me to that. But...c'mon..."pleasure from his pain"?

My delight in John's demise comes from exactly what Jville said, "...it's a game. He was crying because he thought he had it in the bag but got kicked off and lost his opportunity to cash in $1 million. That, to me, is hilarious!" Not to mention my residual irritation at him for taking down my boy Rob (the most entertaining survivor since Rudy). John was way too cocky for this game - and he paid for it.

He got outwitted, outplayed and outlasted...and then he cried.

So there you have it...my best defense. Julieboo, I hope you'll forgive me and allow me to continue to enjoy my vicarious Survivor thrills.

Nanya

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 11:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanx Fruitbat for your cultural insight. Your analogy to drug culture said more clearly what I've been trying to say about Sean's comments.
I don't recall his making racial comments in an accusatory way. I think they were more along the lines of descriptive...."we're working like slaves, ...I hear the theme from roots".
I agree that Pascal would be the possible racist. I was particularly turned off by his "I certainly wouldn't be in alliance with SOMEONE LIKE HIM"(Sean) comment. But "I ain't Mad"

I also was happy to see John go. He was way too arrogant for me to like him....perhaps thats why seeing him cry was amusing.(sort of like seeing the playground bully get a beat down)

IMO, last week's alliance was one of the moment and there will be some rearranging this week toward more permanent lines. I also think that Rob's distrust garden is alive and well, so real alliances will be difficult. R/T/?Z.
Zoe may try to get back, but I don't think she'll be able to. She cost the alliance their exalted leader.
Kathy is playing the game well. She seems to basically be a loner so changing alliances on occasion will not be so hard for her.....again Zoe cut herself out.
Neleh has "FELT THE POWER", she may emerge a gentle giant. Her tenacity showed when she realized that the other Rotus were not sharing the love. She certainly seems to be able to work Pascal.

That being said, I hope that Zoe gets the ax, because I DON"T LIKE HER...and she and John should have to spend time together because....I DON'T LIKE THEM because......

Fruitbat

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't like Zoe either, never have and will vote for her to go next. I have a gut feeling that she is not well liked by Sean, Kathy and Vee and they will prevail.

Seamonkey

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I thought some of the John comments were a bit mean-spirited.. perhaps because of the combination of him being gay AND being brought to tears thinking of his family (which people interpreted as him crying like a baby over being voted out). It made sense to me that people were celebrating after the show; I was too! I was thrilled to see that the others could see through and count the numbers and they DID SOMETHING!! It was a real high.

But some of the more spiteful comments later, that bothered me some.

To me this is a competition that is a small part of the lives of these people and I admire those who can put it into perspective, shake it off, move on, do what they can with the publicity but not rehash and be bitter.

I think John is showing that.. I thought Sarah did that and she was especially gracious with all the really bad press she got. Rob has been gracious. I have to admit Peter and Patricia are so far back.. hard to really remember.

Hunter and Gina were bitter bitter bitter, but hopefully will start to just enjoy it more.

Gabe.. well I was accused of being too gleeful when he left :) So I don't begrudge others being thrilled over other oustings.. I know that I'll be happier than many if Kathy is outta there and not as happy as many if Zoe is outta there and
hopefully that's ok.

I just want to see that voodoo doll.

Moondance

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Me too Sea! Bring on that Voodoo doll!:)

Seamonkey

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Nanya.. that "distrust garden".. great phrase and also still a very important part of this season.
Rob stirred things up while he was there but he's also made one of the greater LASTING impressions.

He planted his seeds very carefully with Kathy.

And others of course.

I hate to label Pappy as racist, since I think there has been tons of discussion on various boards that he was referring to Sean not working or carrying his weight. But.. perhaps he is. I just don't assume that "someone like him" could only mean "someone black" Sean is black but he's more than that. Reportedly he complains all the time, we KNOW he's very very funny, we know he farts all the time, reportedly he does almost no work, so far he's not been particularly competitive in competitions, yet he looks quite strong and the previews show him.. swimming.. we might guess that he hasn't spent much time hearing other people there.. in one clip where he talks to Kathy, he doesn't even know her name..

So "someone like him" could mean any of the above or something else.

Julieboo

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 12:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Shakes, I never meant to pick on you. I did not mean to single anyone out (otherwise I woulda used names). I just felt some comments were mean spirited. Like I said, I too laughed a bit at John... And I am as guilty as anyone else for delighting in certain things (like when certain people get voted off). I just don't dig mean-spiritedness. I know that sounds kind of hypocritical, but I do think there is a difference. (anyone out there know what I mean?)

Seamonkey--another great post! (I mean another great TWO posts!)

Pamy

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 07:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Fruit!!!!!!

Llkoolaid

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 08:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just think this is one helluva game and am enjoying all the mayhem and malice that goes along with it. I love seeing people taken down for their arrogance and I love to see the underdog win. I hope we see lots of power shifts and I hope each episode has a new twist that makes us react. That's what makes it fun. Let's just remember it's a game and not many of us would watch it if it was a lovefest, nor would we post here if we agreed with what every one said.

Hippyt

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 08:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Eeewwww,isn't this a delicate conversation?? LOL!
First off,and kick me to the curb (is that a racial slur?),I do not believe Paschal is a racist. C'mon people,when he said Sean winning would be an embaressment,he was talking of all he knows of Sean-which is Gina's trash talking,and his connection with the Robfather. I'd see Paschal having a bigger problem with an openly gay man than a black man! Paschal had a wake-up call,Sean may not be his new best friend,but Sean's not a liar. And John was.
Julieboo,You are loved Baby.

Nanya

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 08:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Seamonkey, thanx for the insight. I don't want Pascal "labeled" or burned at the stake, and I confess that people hear differently. I just was made uncomfortable by his tone.....no, its not necessary to worry about me.....after a huge marguerita, I thought Pascal was my "Pappy"

I do so enjoy talking to you guys....lots of interesting points of view.

You really make the show great...I don't think that I would enjoy it as much without you

Seamonkey

Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 09:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Absolutely, just watching stuff on tv is enhanced by being able to share it with people who also enjoy the same shows. And, having a whole range of reactions is great!