Archive through March 22, 2002
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Sean's Slave / Race-Related Comments:
Archive through March 22, 2002
Xxlt | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:27 pm     square, if i remember correctly he was not banned...i can't say for sure but i remember Daniel Stern, the NBA commish, saying that there was no precedent to "punish him".....i wish i could remember his name........my point was that there are times where a person needs to put aside their 'trauma' and take an extra step to have a bit of common courtesy. At a hockey game i may not be a canadian citizen but i stand for the anthem (i know all the words.......now, that's weird) The b-ball player wasn't asked to pledge allegiance, sing the words or go fight for the country, (ali was ahead of his time...but he was asked to fight a war, the ball player was asked to come to work and do a job......) It's just that i miss the common courtesy and ability for people to put aside their pettiness for a moment....he could have just stood quietly for a moment, and then gone on after the song. I seriously do not believe that Allah or Muhammed (the prophet not the boxer!) would take offense to his standing for a song....by sitting he directed the ire of the fans, league and media on to himself......somedays you have to 'pick your hill to die on' these days it's far easier to complain and moan than to put up with a moment of discomfort or putting away a prejudice or stereotype. (btw, a boxer would take offense at 'going to the mat' that means a knockout!!!!!!) We live in the best country in the world and a bit of personal sacrifice is what made this country what it is. i make a decent wage and i had to stand up for a minute or two for the kind of money a pro player makes, heck i'd sell popcorn, wash uniforms, sweep the arena and take tickets...... thanks! |
Gina8642 | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:32 pm     In answer to the original question: I think Sean's comments on slavery and the Roots theme were totally meant to be humerous. I think those comments were edited rather closely with some not so humerous Sean moments which made the joke seen less funny and ruined the jokes timeing when he looked off to the side to "hear" the theme music. Sean is definately not being shy about mentioning race, whether in humor or otherwise. I think that's fine, no reason to try to pretend it doesn't exist - it does. |
Kep421 | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:34 pm     Also Square, I agree with you about blacks being cautious in an "all white" environment until they get the lay of the land, so to speak. I'm white, my hubby of 30 years is black, and together we have seen racism in just about all of its many shades and forms. My take on Sean is he definately is a "playa". I think he is trying to manipulate people by making them feel guilty. It seems to me that the only race card he is playing is the "white guilt" card. I think Sean is an intelligent person and that he realizes his tribemates are not bigots. But I think Sean also knows that most white people will do just about anything to avoid being perceived as "racist". It appears to me that is what he is trying (and not very well) to accomplish. Sean might be playing the role of the militant angry black male...but his problem is he's not that good of an actor. I mean, let's think about this for a minute. Would a truly angry, militant young black man ever agree to be put on an island out in the middle of nowhere, outnumbered by whites 8 to 1, in the first place? I think not... I too believe that in another time and place, Sean is another person. Too bad he left that other Sean somewhere else...he really could have made it very hard for MB to stereotypically edit the black male lead of Survivor IV, but instead Sean chose to make editing totally unnecessary. And that is what I think is the sadest part of all this... |
Squaredsc | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:37 pm     kep, i think you missed my point a little. i was making the comparison that they both stood up for what they believed in. the former chris jackson has some deeply rooted issues with american politics. the flag/national anthem to him was a symbol of oppression, kind of like the confederate flag is a continued symbol of oppression to most black people and is today still honored.(hence Kweisi Mfume's boycott of South Carolina) the former chris jackson(don't know his muslim name Makmaud Abdul Rauf??) never said he hated america, nor did ali and i didn't say that ali said he hated america. Chris/Makmaud said he wouldn't stand for the national anthem and was suspended, so he then stood but prayed in muslim fashion with palms facing east. also his house was burned to the ground 'cause of his religious belief and now has been black-listed from the nba(unoficcialy). and another point, the declaratin of independence certainly doesn't/didn't include my people and the national anthem wasn't intended for us either. but remember this, the first man to die for american independence was a free black man, crispus attucks. |
Twiggyish | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:46 pm     I agree..Sean isn't doing anything to work with the team. Whatever happened to teamwork? I also agree there are other problems with Sean. He has past issues and it may be hard for him to get over them. We all carry baggage, which directly affects how we deal with others. |
Twiggyish | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:49 pm     Square, I totally agree about the confederate flag. It doesn't represent me as a southerner and it is offensive. (I've gotten into big debates over that one!!) I'll probably totally p*ss off people now! |
Underdog | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:54 pm     XXLT: should rosa parks or nelson mandela or the minute men or paul revere or joan of arc, or any other person who stood up and made the world a better place have remained silent and waited for the crisis to past?!!! No, when some one truly believes in a cause, wheather the cause is popular or not you go to the wall for that cause. and that's what makmaud did, and he has suffered dearly for it and has not given up his fight. some people believe in abortion, but we don't fire them for their beliefs! |
Lancecrossfire | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:03 pm     Survivor? Sean? |
Kep421 | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:26 pm     No Square, I don't think I missed your point. I understand about standing up for what you believe in and I feel that thoughout the history of America, the black community has demonstrated their willingness and ability to withstand enormous sacrifices in order to do that very act. But standing up for what you believe and making a change for the better is something totally different than showing utter disrespect for one's country. In spite of the terrible treatment of American blacks, the Afro-American community is one of the biggest supporters of this country. And I don't just mean Martin Luther King Jr. or Malcolm X, I'm talking about the thousands of unknown, average "joes" who walked the picket lines and rode the buses to march in protest hundreds of miles from where they lived. They have strived and struggled to change America all through the age of segregation and the upheavals of the 50's and 60's, but never have they disrespected it. My point is that this ball player could have found other ways to make his point besides a public showing of disrespect. And if he truly feels that this country is so oppresive he can't bear the sight of its flag or the sound of its anthem, then why is he here? I know I could never live in a state that honors the confederate flag, and that's why I don't. I'm sorry you feel the Declaration of Independence doesn't include you. I'm sure you have your reasons. But just remember, neither the Declaration or the Anthem was written with women in mind either...but the sufferage changed all that. Maybe one day, things will have changed enough so that even you feel a part of our Declarlation of Independence and our National Anthem. And yes, I was aware of Crispus Atticus being the first black man killed in the war for independence. Speaking of firsts, do you know who Dr. Ben Carson is? He is Chief of Pediatrics at John Hopkins Hospital, the first black man to ever hold that post. I was lucky enough to get to hear this nationally acclaimed and esteemed doctor speak to a large group of inner city black children about taking responsiblities for their own futures. Dr. Carson was raised in the projects, never got a grade higher than a "c", but came to realize that his hardest racial boundries he had to over come was the ones he had created in his own mind. Now, he is making a change in this country...by positively affecting the minds of thousands of children and adults who hear him. I know that it was a black man who invented traffic lights and it was a black man who created peanut butter...but I also take heart in the fact that, like their predecessors, there are many black men and women today who are having a positive impact on the American political and social landscape, without disrespecting a country that in the past has been less than respectful of them. ...kep dismounts from soapbox and wanders slowly away |
Nanya | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:36 pm     I am intrigued by this thread. lol. I can't believe a tv "show" could evoke such deep philosophical, political discussion and flaring of tempers. I know that its billed as a "reality" show, but surely we know that its NOT REAL. ITS ACTING MY FRIENDS.....ACTING!! All of these people have an agenda. However they choose to play the GAME in order to meet their goals is their own choice. Hopefully, our agenda is to sit back, and be entertained by their ANTICS. Then, of course, come to TVCH and dis them, root for them, laugh at them etc. PS No self-respecting "ANGRY YOUNG BLACK MAN" would be caught dead on an island playing mind games with a group of white people. Sean is a master thespian if he really has anybody convinced that he is anything other than a brother trying to be seen & heard and just maybe make a few bucks.  |
Squaredsc | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:39 pm     yes kep i have heard of dr. ben carson, i am a baltimore girl, born and bred. visited hopkins, father rec'd his doctorate there, yadda yadda, yadda. also know dr. carson is from detroit. ok, this is survivor right? can't wait till next week. go survivor!? |
Yuhuru | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:41 pm     Go Nanya !!! |
Twiggyish | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:43 pm     Nanya were you around when BB was on? This is mild compared to those threads. I learn from reading the various posts and points of views. I can remember a looonnnng thread on Monica's hair. |
Seamonkey | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:44 pm     Good one, Lance |
Yuhuru | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:45 pm     Twig, Are you referring to BB1 or BB2 or both? I didn't watch BB1. I didn't know about the clubhouse until BB2 and only read the live feed updates. What were the discussions about? Race? |
Neko | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:47 pm     I don't really understand the "lazy blck man" concept. I was brought up around people of all races and religions. I have always been told that people are all the same on the inside, even if the aren't on the outside. So to me, Sean's not representing the "Lazy Black Men" group, he's representing the "Lazy Men" group....the "Extremely Lazy Slightly Sexist Men Who Hang Out With Jerks Named Rob" group. |
Twiggyish | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:51 pm     Yu, we discussed in detail everything from a to z!! Trust me, this is a civil and intelligent discussion. BB gets very intense. Yes, we discussed race in those threads, too. |
Urgrace | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 06:51 pm     If Sean was one of 6 black contestants with two white contestants, I believe he would be even more forthcoming with his racist remarks and supremist attitude. For myself I was raised in a loving home in a northern almost all white town outside of another almost all black town and another 50/50 town. Then we moved to the south where again we lived in a 50/50 town, but I was appalled by the signs of racism everywhere. Why could someone black cook my dinner in a restaurant but not eat in the same restaurant? It angered me and I was a small girl at the time, but I haven't changed my mind even as a much older gal. A very good friend of mine was shocked to find out that all whites were not meanspirited, lowdown, highfallutin', massa snobs when she came to work in the office where I worked. She was actually brought up believing ALL whites were bad. The office staff never treated anyone different because of color, but attitude was another subject. Sean did not have to have anything particular happen to him to give him his attitude, and he seems to think he is above other people. Maybe he was brought up that way. He is an egomaniac. Also, I now live in another kind of town. There is a different mix of people here, and I have been discriminated against in several stores here because I am white. Should I go out and scream at people for not treating me like a white goddess who is above them? Of course not! But they should not treat me like I belong under their feet either. Life is too short to deal with such nonsense. Sean is to be pitied. He has a chip on his beautifully sculpted shoulders, and I hope since this game came to an end he has tried to find a way to break off his chip and redeem himself. |
Pamy | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 07:15 pm     What is killing me about all of this is that Sean is a teacher!! I have a 6 yr old son that is half black and race is not an issue at his school, at home, or anywhere we go, so I would hate if Sean was his teacher, I can just imagine what he is planting in innocent minds. Does anyone know what grade he teaches? In Sean's defense it says he teaches in Harlem which is alot different than So. Calif. I guess that's why his views on race upset me becausee I don't see any of that out here, but maybe they do in Harlem.
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Llkoolaid | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 07:51 pm     You must live in a wonderful place Pamy. I used to think that it wasn't that way here too but not any more. My god daughter is black and when she was very little I have heard comments made to her mother who is white about where she got her curly hair or what a nice tan she has, stupid remarks like that when we knew that they knew the child was mulatto, why did they make these comments. They could have said what a pretty little girl or what a nice little girl because she is a very beautiful child. It made me so angry because I wanted to protect her from people like that and it was then that I realized that this beautiful little girl was going to have people judge her all her life only because of the color of her skin. My daughters best friend is black. They have been best friends since they were in grade 7 and they are both now in their second year of university. Both have had an over 90 average all through high school, both played sports on the same teams, both were in band and choir, both volunteered in community things. They are both go getters. They are so much alike that when they are talking they will finish each others sentences. Yet my daughter is thought of as out going and her friend is thought of as pushy. This is not my imagination, I have heard these comments describing them, I have seen my daughter get positive reactions and her friend get negative reactions for the same qualities. My daughter told me once that when she goes to the mall with her friend shop keepers will follow them around but when she goes alone she has trouble finding one to help her. I really didn't see racism until it affected someone that I cared for, at least not the subtle racism, that is sometimes just a look or passed between two people or an attitude that people take. Once I noticed it I started seeing it everywhere. Anyway Pamy I hope and pray that your son never has to deal with the things that my god daughter has or my daughters friends has but sadly I don't think that will be the case. |
Grooch | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 07:52 pm     Underdog wrote: <<Is it really necessary to work from sun up to sun down on a tropical island? Are the other tribe members trying to be impressive by showing that there is much to be done, or is this a case of overkill? After working to make sure all of the necessities are taken care of can a man/woman take it upon himself to rest, after all on the 7th day GOD rested. and none of us come close to him! >> I wondered about that too. How much is there to do on an island with 8 people? I can see them spending the morning working (when the temperature is cool) to get everything done. Collecting firewood, getting water, picking fruit. (What else is there?) Then around noon, relaxing to take a nap, during the hottest part of the day. (Esp. since they say they are having problems sleeping at night.) Then, in the afternoon, they can do miscellaneous activities that they enjoy, if they want to. Looking for shrimp, making a pig trap, working on the tent. The whole time, socializing and enjoying themselves. I think the original Rotu tribe were all hard working, but they have worked themselves into a frenzy to keep themselves busy so they don't appear to be the lazy one and get voted off for it. They are in definite overkill mode. Sean & Rob assesed their situation well, and they figure they will be voted off next, so why kill themselves. I don't blame them in their current situation. (Now the things that they say are idiotic. But I think they are just playing a character and are clueless to the reaction. Sean & Rob have to answer to this in their real lives, their actions. I see no point to ripping them to shreds. They are giving us entertainment. No one knows what they were really thinking at the time. jmo) I also think that if MB is reading any of these Survivor boards, he is now editing all the film to get more racist remarks from Sean to get more people talking. I don't trust him. |
Grooch | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:14 pm     P.S. If anyone wanted to see a show where race doesn't matter, they should have been watching Combat Missions. This is another Mark Burnett show. But to make the show work, he needed the best of who applied, regardless of race. He had a great mix of people. And I don't think race was ever mentioned once by the players. They were all proud of what they did and they wanted honor in winning. This show is a 180 to Survivor. I almost cry everytime they have to vote someone off. (but Baz is my favorite. I don't like Delta except for Baz.) I wish more people watched this show. |
Llkoolaid | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:20 pm     I never heard of it, there is another show on about a challenge to get to the north pole and it also has a lot of great people and it sounds like that. I can't think of the name but it is on Thursday nights at the same time as TAR so I have been flipping back and forth. I am going to tape it next week. |
Grooch | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:33 pm     Combat Missions is on the USA channel at 10 pm. |
Pamy | Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:33 pm     Thanks Llkoolaid..I hope and pray he never does either. When you talked about the comments made when your god daughter was little it reminded me of an incident that happened at my supermarket when my son was about 8 mo old. My son has always been very cute(i know i know, we all say that about our kids!, but he really was the cutest baby, even had a commercial/movie agent at 5mo old!)anyway.....while i was in line and he was in the basket people kept comming up saying how cute he was the last lady that came up said "He is soo cute, is he yours?" Without missing a beat, I looked up at her and said "He better be, I paid enough for him!!!!" and just kept on putting my groceries on the table, she turned beat red! and that was the only thing close to racism I have seen, thank God! |
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