Archive through March 08, 2002
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General Archives - Feb-Mar:
Initial Impressions of the Survivors:
Archive through March 08, 2002
Sunshinemiss | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 11:19 am     LOL Disco, I'd join but I am already in all 3 of our alliances. I like this group. First impressions are as follows (and as memory serves) Peter- well intentioned, but he reminded me of the dentist (Carl?) didn't know when to keep that mouth shut. Likeable to a point but his views were too far off the mainstream to fit well into a group. I personally liked him, but I am a bit off an "odd duck" myself. Sean- Strong will could cause him problems if he can't adapt to the group mentality. Also the extent of the religious fervor shown in the initial episode could put people off if it continues at the same level. Seems like an intelligent man though and definitely strong and capable. Gabriel- Peter Frampton look-alike with all that hair!! Cute but maybe a bit immature. We didn't see much of his tribe this episode so I will hold off on forming strong opinions until future episodes. Hunter- hubba hubba. Seems smart, able to blend well into the group dynamic, and he works for the same company I do so I have to root for him to take it all. Sara- came off as a slacker who coasts on her looks. I will give her the benefit of the doubt and say maybe it was editing, we shall see. And yes of course they are fake!! Breasts that large are not only disproportionate for her frame, they LOOK inflated. Natural breasts just don't "hang" that way, even when you are young. Yuck. Rob- Young, strong, attractive, more brawn than brains, not that that is a bad thing necessarily. The budding romance should be amusing. Gina- seems intelligent and capable. Did I read somewhere she actually gets into a romance with Hunter? I remember hearing her say she had a crush on him...but? Patricia- I agree with the above post in that she seems too defensive- better to push your strong points than dwell on your weak ones. If she can prove herself valuable in whatever capacity she may preserve herself otherwise I think she is doomed soon. Kathy- I like her. I didn't find her pushy, but she does need to watch her temper- that frustration she vented could cause her problems. Otherwise she seems smart and stands a good chance. I thought it was really strange that the first team spent so much time trying to make the fire with the 2 sticks, haven't any of them watched any of the other survivor shows and seen how incredibly hard that seems to be? I kept yelling at my tv to keep up with the magnifying glass, IMO it was stupid to give up on it so soon. Would have made life a LOT easier on them. Have 2 teams working on BOTH methods if you have to. All in all, I really like the location, love the new concept of total self-sufficency, and am excited to see where this goes. |
Gina8642 | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 11:32 am     Ok, I'm doing this before looking at anyone else's impressions. So here goes: HUNTER: I like him. I thought he was guiding and leading his tribe without pissing anyone off, and incurring too much resentment. That is tough. He is of course handsome, fit, and all that too. If he doesn't step on any toes, or if MB doesn't pull an impossible to survive switcheroo - Hunter is a shoe in to make the Merge. GINA: Well, she is my namesake. We even have simliar backrounds - so I like her. I guess I'm routing for her. Anyone who devotes their lives to the betterment of our planet has my vote. I also think she started out playing the game well. She has camping skills. When she spoke out against Peter, folks seemed to be on her side, instead of his. That speaks well for her team building skills. Also likely to merge. ROB: Ok, he was fun running after the chickens. Definate comic relief. He did great when Hunter told him not to chase chickens. Neither seemed to have hard feelings. Just a frank discussion on team focus. Can make the Merge if he gets focused. Be careful not to incur resentment over flirting with Sara. SARA: Obviously interested in appearances, or she wouldn't have paid for those boobs. But, unlike MB/CBS I don't think this necessarily makes her a lazy, or bad tribe member. If you watch the shots from Ep. 1 when Sara is in the background - she is always working. However; she does look less physically strong, and is definately provoking some resentment from other tribe members. She really needs to work it (the "it" here not being her body), if she doesn't want to be the 2nd or 3rd of her tribe to go. She's made a poor first impression. that is hard to overcome. SEAN: Religion is a wonderful, powerful thing. Throwing yours in other people's faces is obnoxious and striff causing. Watch out Sean - you are on the verge of singling yourself out. Good points - You are strong, and smart, tough. Work on team building. I give you even odds on making it to the merge. VECEPIA: I had to rewatch my tape to figure out which tribe you were a part of. I knew on the CBS web-site I had seen a black woman, but when I watched the show the first time I missed you altogether. I don't know what to say. You must be good at that "under the radar" thing. Stick with Hunter and Gina, you may merge too. PATRICIA: Your days look numbered. Don't start blaming others for not liking you because of stereo-typical biases. (they don't like me because "I'm a woman", because "I'm fat", because "I'm a momma figure".) Maybe they don't like you. Maybe they do, but with only 8 people around, they aren't going to dislike you on stereotypes, it will be on your true personality. Patricia will seriously need to shape up her whining if she doesn't want the next boot. PETER: Your holey coversation went too far. It's not that you didn't have a valid point, it was your presentation. You came off as a fruitloop. Save the eccentricities for day 15, not Day 1, when they will make you the odd person out. ROTU TRIBE I bearly saw you, I'll wait for next week to really analize you. Now I'm going to see, just how far off I was from everyone else on these boards..... |
Alaskagal | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:22 pm     LOL DISCO!! |
Gina8642 | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:24 pm     Okay, Now I've read everyone else's first impressions. I guess I'm not that far off. I gotta say I thought Rob was always attractive. A little young for me, but always a cutie. I guess I missed the unflattering angles other saw. My only other comment is about the token "black" people. I've actually thought that MB/CBS has had a variety of "black" people. He has cast African Americans in every show. He's put them in tribes both with each other, and separate. I don't think he is trying to romantically link them. I believe V is in her late 30's, Sean has to be like 24. It isn't impossible, but it sure isn't preplanned by MB. I think there was a similiar age difference between Gervace and Romona. What Survivor lacks is other "token" people. African Americans make up only 12-13% of the US population. I've had many more friends, neighboors, classmates, co-workers who are Chinese American, Korean American, Various SE asian american, Janpanese american, Indian or S Asian(from the country of India) American, Native Nmerican, Hispanic american, then African American. I know it is a big deal in the media to cover the lack of black roles in film and on TV, but at least there are some black folks out there. (BTW 2/16 = 12.5%) Where are the asian americans? The middle-east americans? The S Asia americans? These are my neighboors, my co-workers, and my friends. I never see them on TV or in film. At least blacks are an aknowleged part of our society. As for the "other" minority groups - it is like they don't exist. Yes, I remember Kel. I will give MB/CBS that one - wasn't their fault he was booted first. |
Moondance | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:31 pm     Exactly Gina!!! I agree with everything! And if they would have called me, they could have filled their Native American slot! |
Urgrace | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 01:50 pm     The cute gal cop that got sick and was caught with Ethan - why can't I remember her name [Jessie?] - and voted off, wasn't she Hispanic American? |
Gina8642 | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 02:05 pm     You're right Urgrace - I forgot about her too. Okay, so now MB and the republican party has begun to aknowlegde hispanic americans. That still misses quite a few. |
Sabbatia | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 02:10 pm     I'm still trying to figure out if I'm part of that percentage of fake boobs? Does surgically modified but not added to count as fake? Anyway, I wasn't really fond of watching Sara flaunt them the entire time. Sometimes, clothes can be a good thing. I pretty much agree with everybody elses opinions of everybody so far. My first impression of Cathy reminded me of Dianne, and that's not a really great thing. She needs to be careful. The others may have forgiven her, but they will remember when it comes time to vote if she is seen as too pushy or bossy. I'm not really comfortable with praying out loud, so the prayer thing was really odd for me. I liked Gina, but I don't know why. I feel sorry for Pat because it's gonna be hard being the older, overweight person. You know that has to be on her mind the whole time. Overall impression is, this reminds me of the first survivor. The place is gorgeous, and I think they did a great job of casting this time. I agree though that they don't represent the actual population well. There are other folks out there that aren't white or black. BTW, is there a gay or lesbian this time? |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 03:01 pm     I’ll start with bigger picture and move to individuals. The show: I like it. I’ve liked each of the others for different reasons. Yep, the Africa scenery was a bit boring, although it provided for what has been the toughest of the shows. T his one really got to people. Just ask Lex. I like having them in different types of locations. One of the knocks some people have is the game is the same. It would be more so if you have it in a tropical area each time with water, beach and sand. Yes, in some respects it’s going to be the same. It’s 16 people, 2 tribes (at least to start with), reward challenge, immunity challenge, people getting voted off, and a winner. If they change it too much, it becomes another show. The basics need to remain the same. Curve balls within the basics will help it have a different feel along the way. It’s like a steak—you can BBQ it, broil it, add spices to it, fry it, have it raw—but it’s still a steak, and you know it’s going to have similar properties no matter what you do to it. Challenges: I like a mix of them which include components of strength, mental ability, and team work (for the first half). That way a person isn’t voted off because they can lift as much or run as fast. They have equal footing as long as they contribute to the team one of the ways during the challenge and during daily living. I have no problem with them suing challenges over through different shows as long as they are good challenges. Few people who watch football that there is either a run or a pass play each down. Or in basketball the offense is either transition or half court. To me it’s much more important not to make either strength or mental ability the deciding factor in who moves on. The type of people: Some knock it for having the same mix of people. To a degree, it is true that there is somewhat the same mix. A lot of people what to be entertained as well as watch the “game” of Survivor. MB has to give us people that can provide both—a game and some entertainment. I’m thinking 16 Hunters or 16 Sarah’s or 16 Colby’s would not make for good entertainment. I don’t buy into the “token” concept. If that were being done, he’d also have to pick a Native American each show, an Asian, a Hispanic—and so on. It just can’t be done in 16 people. If MB didn’t have to worry about any of us crying out “hey, this is boring—I’m not being entertained”, he put 16 out there that were survivalist and could run circles around the rest of us physically. That would provide for the best game. There might be fights, people eating raw meat for dinner, and other things most of us would think was a little too much. But it would be one heck of a game!! The two tribes: Maraamu seems t have the upper hand slightly in strength and speed. (based on bios and watching them the first show). Rotu took it to them though. They had better team play, worked well together, and no one was a standout. I can’t tell yet if any internal issues will divide either team as happened in S3. If they can avoid that, then each will have a good chance. I like that MB has made it clear to expect anything. Even if he doesn’t go through with any changes, he has planted the seed that any previous way of playing the game may not work. More incentive for them to play their own game, or change with the moment—not by what happened in previous shows. If MB does throw some curve balls like a mix up of tribes, old methods of playing the game may be a bigger disadvantage than advantage. Gina: My pre-game pick (a tough choice over John). She seems t be playing well. Her “love” of Hunter as she puts it, may bite her later. I’m thinking if he asked her to vote against tree she would consider it. She’s bright, a good athlete, and has knowledge of the outdoors. I see her being able to contribute a lot to their tribe. Hunter: He’s doing great right now. I don’t know if he is a born leader, however he had to become one to fly an F-18. My concern is (and it’s only a hunch) that later on we will see that he has to be the leader. If he can’t be the leader, he won’t play. We will see ego come out. You can’t be handed a half billion dollar jet, fly around at Mach 2 and be able to battle similar planes without being 100% sure you’re the best, and no one deserves to be there more than you. He’s been out of that game for awhile though—he may have come down off his pedestal—if so, he will go very far. At least till he is seen as a threat to win it all after any merge. I consider him a strong favorite if he doesn’t let ego and arrogance into his game. Patricia: I think she should stop worrying about them thinking she is the weak one, and the one to be voted off because she is the oldest and over weight. It’s all the people in TV land that will think that. (check around various places or listen to people talk at work—being fat and old on TV gets attention) If she contributes to making for a strong team, doesn’t totally blow a challenge, works hard in the daily chores and doesn’t make waves, she will be there for awhile. Notice Peter did all the rest accept the one about not making waves. It’s important at this point. Peter: I think it came down to him trying to hard, and being weird in the process. It didn’t help it was right from the start when no one had gotten to know him yet. Rob: He’s funny. Arrogant too, IMHO. He needs to shine when given the chance, and not push too hard. They have accepted Hunter as the leader—he needs to not challenge that right now. Sarah: Too lazy at this point—at least by the way she showed her to begin with. I don’t have a clue what all the complaining is about her breasts being fake. It has nothing to do with the game. Fake finger nails, hair colored completely different, make up, etc. It’s all the same thing, just to a different degree. Fake nails: $40. Fake breasts: $5,000. Same idea, different price tag. I’m not a fan of anything fake, but that is just me. Vecepia and her comment about her body being paid for is nothing but catty if she has fake nails or changes anything about her appearance. Now if her bought body shows Sarah to be a fake person, then there is a connection. I’m not sure if Sarah is there to play or to increase he chances of being “discovered”. Personally, I think the later makes for worse game, but sometimes better entertainment. It’s a tough line for MB to walk. So far she has been put in the light of not being there to play the game. Sean: Lots going for him. Living in LA though, not sure what all his Harlem hype is about. I like that he isn’t buying into Sarah as a good looking woman so he’s willing to over look things. He may be an alpha male, but he isn’t going to take over Hunter’s spot as leader right now. Like Rob, he will do best contributing to challenges, and throwing in ideas as opportunities arise. Nothing wrong with stating belief vies—just don’t try and push them on to anyone else. That will be a terminal mistake. Vecepia: She has got it together so far. Much like Gina in her approach. She seems to be able to handle herself with the physical or mental situations, and works at the team thing. I expect her to go far. The only thing I saw wrong was her approach to Sarah. A bought body doesn’t define a person being the one to vote off any more than having tattoos. It makes her appear catty and envious. Of course that was to the cameras. We can’t tell if it’s been shared to Sarah. Wee will make it to the merge unless she really changes in her approach. John: A decent guy it seems. He has a temper per his own words, although dealt with it well the first time it became an issue. If he keeps in check he will be much better off. He seems to have the team thing down pretty well and will contribute when appropriate. Kathy: Hey Kathy, if fire right now is a big issue for you, do it yourself! You will gain a lot more points dealing with the things that are important to you instead of expecting others to do it for you. Don’t tell someone else they are doing a poor job if you aren’t going to try it yourself. I thin she has a lot to offer though, if she would just go out and do some of it herself. Robert: a team member in the rough. He has edges. If he can use them to his advantage and not have them bite him, he will do well. He strikes me as an intense person, who will help the group out a lot be bringing that intensity to the challenges. We shall see what happens in future shows with him—that is all can get right now. Gabriel, Neleh, Paschal, Tammy and Zoe: Didn’t see enough of them or interactions including them to draw any decent ideas. If you accept that this is Survivor, and like football or basketball, the game will take place by the use of plays within certain boundaries, I think this has great potential. |
Crazydog | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:03 pm     As far as the lack of minorities, I believe we talked about this during Survivor Africa, it's disappointing but in line with most other reality shows. Lance, I have to disagree slightly. I think Mark Burnett has in mind exactly what he wants, and it's clear that each Survivor must have two and no more or no less than two blacks. If he had only one people would complain and if he had too many then god forbid the world will fall apart. It's happened four times and I'm sorry if I think that it is not a coincidence. As far as other minorities, as far as I know there has only been Jessie from SIII, and Kel from SII. Kel was multiracial, and I believe he was one quarter Filipino, so I am not sure if he should count as the "token Asian" for all Survivors to come, considering that many people did not know he was Asian and thought he *might* have been Native American. Gina I agree with you, it is a little sad that there are virtually no minorities other than blacks represented on most of the other reality TV shows. TAR had two black teams in round one, and in round two, two black teams and looks like maybe a Hispanic team. No Asians. To the best of my knowledge, Big Brother 1 had one of the only Asian American males in any reality series to date, and he was the sterotypical super geek, and two blacks. Big Brother 2 had a black female and a half-Asian female. Love Cruise had no Asians, Laura may have been Hispanic but I'm not sure. The Temptation Islands had two black couples and a Hispanic male in the lead roles, and many minorities of all types as the singles, including an Arab American. The shows that have done the best in terms of racial casting have been MTV's The Real World and Road Rules. However, I don't believe either has had a 100% Asian male although they have had plenty of females. I'm not saying that there should be a minority quota, I just think it odd that approximately 30% of America is a minority and that out of 16 people he consistently chooses to represent those 30% with two blacks. Hispanics are the fastest growing minority group, and Asians are perhaps the most successful, and yet these two groups are always underrepresented or absent. But it's the same with network TV casts as well. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:16 pm     Carzy, you have a valid point about what has happened in the previous shows--two in each. Good catch. I think it's a no win situation, as you point out if he had only one black (or none). I'm not sure there is any combination he could put on the show that wouldn't raise someone's hackles. To make a silly point, the demogaphics would indicate there should be a lot more over weight people on the show--what, 50% or so? Or types of jobs--there is that demographic as well. |
Gina8642 | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:23 pm     Thanks Crazy Dog for the info, To be honest I haven't really watched any other reality shows then Survivor (except BB2 - no wait - I watched the end of the first Mole too. lol). Sounds like from what you said they do a much better job than non-reality shows in incorporating minorities. So, one more reason to like reality shows. |
Crazydog | Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 05:08 pm     Lance, LOL, you're right there should be more overweight ugly people on Survivor, but no one wants to see that and ratings would plummet and since Mark Burnett is loyal to the almighty dollar and Mountain Dew (and this year, Snickers) that would never happen. On that note, it's a little sad that MB is casting what he thinks is the most agreeable to advertisers and the public, because he seems to be saying that this is what the people want, and it's not. Oh, and also notice that on each Survivor there is always one black male and one black female. Never two black males or two black females. And in an interview of Gabriel's mother, she said that Gabriel filled the "blond hiker" role that MB wanted. So it's apparent he's got certain roles for each. I'm sure when he cast Sarah he was looking for a looker with big bazangas that knows how to use them. When he cast Kathy he was looking for someone to play the role of the "Diane", a bossy older woman. When he cast Patricia he was looking for someone to play the insecure overweight older woman. When he cast Peter he was looking for someone to play the kook. So I suppose my whole point is that he knows what he wants and what he doesn't. Gina you make a good point, there are certainly more minorities on reality shows than non-reality shows. And they surprisingly are capable of interacting with white people! Minorities on network TV are few and far between if you don't count the all-black shows on UPN (was it me or did UPN once advertise their programming on one particular night as "black to black comedy" at 7 and 7:30? a little offensive IMO) NYPD Blue is a great show with a multiracial cast. |
Nanya | Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:03 pm     Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps a very few minorities are drawn to such communal living and discomfort. Perhaps the "few" who try really are unsuitable. MB would have to be concerned about offending anyone. If I were homosexual, Brandon would have made me ill, etc. I think the bottom line has nothing to do with demographics, but with what will play in Peoria & $$$$$$ |
Mssilhouette | Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 12:48 pm     Nanya that's interesting but I doubt it. I'm sure that there are plenty of minorities applying. Maybe they aren't drawn to communial living and discomfort for 1 million dollars? Oh c'mon on now! Heck most of us had that kinda living with our parents and siblings. No one was offering to pay us 1 mil for it! LOL It's very clear that there are specific roles for people and sadly there can only be 2 black people to represent all the other minorities. I'm not saying I just want to see more black people, any other persons of color would do as well. 16 people and 14 of them are caucasians...what it was too hard to have 2 latinos, 2 asians and 2 blacks? That still leaves 10 slots for caucasians. I'm sure the viewing public would be able to handle that mixture without much trouble. As for unsuitable...LOL Was Brandon really "suitable" or did he just fill a role? Now I do agree that MB choices have to do with money....But I'm sure Peoria has people of color. Sometimes I think those who make programs don't realize tend to over think what the general public will find acceptable. So what we get is 2 black people (male and female) that's the max. I'm sure it will be the same for Survivor 5. The reason we talk about every survivor is sometimes we hope it'll be different. But 4 shows in the can and always the same make up. So it's become less about reality and more about a drama with casting and roles. |
Luvmom | Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 06:32 pm     Sabbatia, There is an openly gay person on this Survivor if I'm not mistaken.If I am,someone please correct me.John is gay from what I've read.I don't think they are going to make it a big issue this time. |
Nanya | Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 08:51 pm     Peoria has lots of minorities, it is the home of Bradley Univ. I used it in the political euphemistic sense.....middle America etc. Maybe I haven't watched long enough to be tired of the show. I really enjoy it. Perhaps my pragmatic nature allows me to view this show the same way I do others..."pretend". I'm really not bothered at this point about scripting and unless it becomes really obvious, I'll just pretend that its reality tv. Color me easy....not cheap...just easy. |
Oregonfire | Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:02 pm     Were there any grouchy old ex-marine homophobic guys? I didn't see any this time. A likable group overall, and the location is better. |
Crazydog | Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 08:30 am     OK, I watched the first episode again last night. Everyone here seemed to comment last week about how differently Kathy and Hunter were received by their tribes. Hunter tells everyone to make fire and he's a great leader. Kathy tells everyone to make fire and she's a bizatch. A lot of people here seemed to think that it's because Kathy is a woman and it was just plain old sexism. After paying particular attention to these exchanges again, I have to disagree. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Hunter was very calm in making his suggestions. He seemed practical and genuinely concerned about the welfare of the group. Kathy's directives were very forceful - very fast, sharp and a little condescending. We have to do this NOW. She was a pushy bizatch and she knows that, because she used those words herself. This week it seems she sees fish but is not well received by her tribe. A Rotu loss tonight would be welcomed because it would give us the chance to meet more of them. We hardly saw any of Zoe last week (I wouldn't recognize her if I ran her over), and right now if Tammy and Gina were on the same tribe I'd be in trouble. |
Grooch | Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 08:32 am     Who's Tammy? |
Tksoard | Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 08:43 am     LOL Grooch!! That's what I said when I voted her to stay this week!! Good observation, Crazydog!! I was going to watch for that too, but I got too into the whole show again!! Thanks!!  |
Nanya | Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 09:01 pm     I have to agree with crazy. Patricia is really abrasive and BOSSY. Hunter could probably sell something. |
C1mag | Friday, March 08, 2002 - 03:37 am     Hey everyone!!!!! Here we are into the second show and I'm lagging behind with a thought. Truth is this group is really predictable. So far I've noticed that the one booted is the first to vote at tribal council maybe that will change. Some observations.... Robs got a real good chance now that Sean and Hunter will battle for THE alpha male spot. That should be interesting. Anyone notice that Sean really does have a paranoia about white people? And forgive me for pointing this out but why does every African American man on this show get edited as the lazy one? Poor Kathy is toast the first time she goes to tribal council and all she did was feed them and demand water, shelter, and fire. WOW that ol meanie! I will never get the dynamics of people in this game. That Gabe dude is obviously the token gay boy of this game. I thought I would barf when he made it clear that they were much more into the idea of basically holding hands and singing coom by ya my lord, rather than go out and take care of daily living tasks in order to survive. That whole group bores the hell out of me. I like the concept of providing everything for yourself but wish they would have done that with the first group. Everything is pretty predictable. Popularity gets you by and towing the line and having to much of an opinion gets you booted. Same ol same ol, but I'm still watchin |
Fruitbat | Friday, March 08, 2002 - 04:05 am     Sarah was correct that weaving the palm frons was unnecessary and time comsuming. Thaching is just many layers of the frons overlapped and added as they dry. Also right on with her observation that they were laying them incorrectly. Bottom to top would be water tight as opposed to the top to bottom method they were using. Shingling a house or roof is done from bottom to top. Again, like Kathy, it was her delivery and attitiude that repelled her team. Has she taken the initiative to start the process herself explaining her knowledge in a respectful and cheerfull way she would have become a solid, respected member of the team. I like Gabriel and thought his observation that it was not all survival was accurate. And the situation with Kathy proves that. She has not made any attemps to bond and will pay for that. Sean has not a chance in hell of being alpha male or a leader of anykind. I doubt it is editing alone that is making him look lazy. Both he and Sarah admit it! I am liking Rob better. There is something very endearing about him. I am not finding Gina all that compelling. She has too many edges and is a tad snide. It will be interesting if she gets seperated from Hunter in the shuffle. I suspect she will opt to stick with him without even sensing what lay ahead. |
Fruitbat | Friday, March 08, 2002 - 04:07 am     The switch will be anticlimatic, especially if M loses anyone else before it happens. I think they are doomed and the winner will come from Rotu. |
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