Archive through March 30, 2002
The ClubHouse: Archives: Does Survivor cast black men in a bad light?:
Archive through March 30, 2002
Kizz | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 04:47 am     Wouldn't it be funny if after we analyzed this for days, got into passionate discussions, etc., it turned out that Sean Rector was nothing more than a stubborn YOUNG man who dislikes being told what to do? Its obvious to me he's not lazy, that's not a lazy man's physique he's sporting. A lazy man would not choose a career teaching in S. Central Los Angeles. Maybe we are overthinking. |
Kep421 | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 04:53 am     I think it easy to gripe, but much harder to come up with solutions. There really isn't any way to change the way some people think and I don't think a show like Survivor should be used for that purpose anyway. But, I do think that if MB would change his typecasting a little, it could actually make his show better!! What I would really like to see is a total change in typecasting for the black contestants. I would like to see more than just two for starters, and I would find it very interesting if a black male was typecast in the "ole pappa" role, like the one Paschal has, or the middle-aged family man who was loyal to family and maintained a leadership role, like Lex. I also think a black female cast in the "mamakim" role would be equally cool (can you see it? Cassandra meets Survivor Island!!!) and a friend of mine (who agrees with me BTW) would love to see a young black female in the ditzy, big boobed Sarah role!!! (my friend is male, we will forgive him for now). Black contestants can be portrayed in any of the roles MB has cultivated for his show. We all know by now that he has pre-defined some roles and left a few wild cards out there to mix things up. But if he would show more diversity in the people that he chooses for these roles, the show would be so much better, in my opinion. Also, if he had more than just two black tribe members, he would be able to "edit" them in different ways, and not the same old story show after show. Excuse me...I gotta go call Mark... |
Kizz | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:02 am     <<There really isn't any way to change the way some people think and I don't think a show like Survivor should be used for that purpose anyway. But, I do think that if MB would change his typecasting a little, it could actually make his show better!!>> Exactly Kep!! Thank you!! |
Kep421 | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:05 am     Hey Kizz, I almost bought the theory that Sean is not lazy because of his body building...but then I remembered my own 25 year old son...Mr Lazy. My son works out because he loves it, and he likes the way he looks to the girls. But ask him to do some extra chores around the house or actual work in the yard? Yeah right!!! But I figure that's gonna be his wife's problem some day, not mine... So as to Sean? Sorry...can't buy it!!! And I can't buy the defiant theory either...I know a lazy young man when I see one and I've heard just about all the reasons for not doing work. The "defiance" excuse is not new to me... |
Christina | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:57 am     I am in a union !!!! I WORK VERY HARD. Talk about stereotyping. I am white, woman and single. very hardworking and proud of it. Just had to say that. |
Squaredsc | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:06 am     yeah yuhuru, i was talking about the hebrew slaves back in ancient Egypt. not the holocost(sp). |
Squaredsc | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:14 am     thanks christina, duly noted.  |
Squaredsc | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:27 am     kep quick question, your son is 25 and still lives at home? does chores or not do chores? does he pay rent?? just wondering 'cause my parents never put up with that when i was a teenager, let alone at 25, but then i left home at 20.  |
Llkoolaid | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 08:39 am     In Maris defense, and I could be wrong but I took her reference of (we all know union guys don't work) as sort of tongue in cheek sarcasm. I am extremely pro-union so I hope I am right. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:47 am     Kool, I took Maris' comment as an example of a stereotype that could be shown on something like this show. I just don't get the issue with what MB does. There have been examples where people in various "groups" have looked lazy (either because they were or beacuse they showed them during their down time. White, male, female, young, old, thin, fat. The comments that Gervais made are there for all to see--he wanted to avoid as much work as possible. Ok, it's a way to play the game. The mall rats all said the same thing, and took laziness to a new level. All of them happened to be white. I'm not sure there should be a mutiny by white people under 35 for it. Sarah was shown to not do much at all, especially during her last couple of days. Should big chested women take up arms for MB trying to say all big chested women are lazy? It seems like the people who want most for everyone not to see any differences in each other (color, age, weight, sexual preference) are the ones who most frequently bring up the differences. |
Maris | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:56 am     of course it was tongue in cheek, I come from a long line of union folk and am proud of them. A great hero of mine was Eugene Debbs. As I am sure you have noticed I am not very good at expressing myself. |
Christina | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:35 pm     I would have a picture of tongue and cheek , but cant . haha have a HAPPY EASTER |
Kep421 | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:40 pm     Squaredsc...yes, yes and yes. My son wouldn't still be at home either if we hadn't had a family crisis where four of my grandchildren had to come and stay with us for 2 years. My husband and I would not have made it without our son's help during that time, and he gave up some great opportunities for himself in order to keep this family together. My hubby and I are giving him the time and space he needs to make up for that. He is doing well, just complains alot!!! He too thinks I'm a slave driver... Lance, the issue isn't that MB shows black males as lazy, the issue is that he doesn't show them as anything else. Ever!! From one show to the next!!! |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:48 pm     I don't see where MB showed Nick Brown in that light. NIck was shown to work in general, then when he got sick before being booted--showed him not doing much, although it was made clear he was sick. Or am I not accurate in that evaluation? |
Kep421 | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 02:07 pm     Well the article talks about the "lazy" aspects of Nick that MB played up and several of his tribe mates said that the "lazy" profiling was not accurate...I don't remember Nick that well, so I couldn't tell you from my own mind. What I don't understand is that when MB is looking for his ole pappy contestant, or his middle aged loyal family man contestant, or the environmentalist, idealistic, "I'm here for the experience" contestant, why isn't he choosing from the black applicants that match those roles? Its been four shows now...come on!!! |
Cablejockey | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 02:20 pm     I too would like to see Mark Burnett cast more than 2 contestants who are black. There should be at least half of some racial diversity instead of one or two that the harsh spotlight falls on. Big Brother does the same thing only casting one houseguest, usually female, in a house full of white strangers. Stand on any street corner in any major city and count off 20 people, I am pretty sure 19 of them are not going to white and just one black or brown. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 02:26 pm     Kep, your lat question is a good one. We may never know for sue on that one. With the "ole pappy", MB coudl run into sterotyping issue there in any event. I have a feeling the "I'm herre for the experience" people don't get selected--by that I maen anyone who shows that in the application, tape and/or interviews. IT was commented in an interview posted by Car thaht Gabe indicated in his application that he was very competitive and there for the game--turns out his definition of game was the commune thing. I have a feeling he wouldn't have been picked if he had mentioned that at any point. Now the idea of loyal middle aged or evironmentalist type is one which woud be reasonable to expect from any walk of life withoput the concern of stereotyping. While off topic from the specific issue of who black men are typecast on this show, lets note than we haven't seen an Asian male or female yet. Which is worse--getting stereotyped or not getting included to begin with?? |
Resortgirl | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 02:30 pm     It is possible that the pool of "pappy" aged black men is rather limited. They might not think starving, not sleeping or being eaten alive by nono's is worth a million bucks. Or they may not think they have a chance to win based on the racism they may face from other contestants. |
Resortgirl | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 02:40 pm     It seems to me that MB chooses successful, articulate, athletic black men for the show. I don't remember all their credentials but I know that they have all had alot more educational experience then me. I don't remember Nick being particularly lazy but he also was never very involved in any of the story lines either. In Sean and Gervace's case they both admit that they were not going to go out of there way to work. They each had different reasons or strategies for that. I guess I am at a disadvantage in this discussion since we live in an area that has one black couple. My perception of blacks is based pretty much on what I see in the media and the people I see are actors, sport figures, newscasters... all successful people. |
Squaredsc | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:05 pm     kep, i apologize. i was trying to be sarcastic and it backfired. but since your son was very instrumental in helping to raise his nieces and nephews, maybe he isn't lazy? just tired? sorry again i didn't mean to hurt any feelings. lance you are right, there needs to be more of a minority representation in these shows but i am sure that then there would be even more stereotypes. unfortunately i can only speak about the two minorities that i belong to, being african-american and being a woman.  |
Underdog | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:26 pm     This is directed to Yuhuru.....I am glad to see that you see where I am coming from. As a black man in this country, it pains me a lot of times to see the social problems that we go through, a lot which are brought on by our own actions. On another note, although a number of you stated that Rob is lazy, amazingly enough we are not really debating the issue of Rob being a lazy contestant like we are with Sean, Nick, Clarence, and Gervase. An although other people have been mentioned as not contributing to the efforts of their tribe, they have not been labled like Sean has been labled. And once again I reiterate the fact that Sean has stated that he is not going to do 'cause others want him to do. And also, a number of you have included the comment that Sean stopped paddling in midstream when supposedly his tribe ha a chance to win. It didn't appear that way to me that his tribe had a chance, I felt that they were going to lose from the beginning. As if his efforts were going to win the race alone. Sean's credentials in the "Real World" are admirable. First and foremost a male teacher, black or white, are hard to come by. And also, Gervace and Clarence spend time working with children which is something that a lot of us are not doing on a regular basis. Me myself I take time out to coach my sons' baseball teams because I believe in trying to make a difference. Me personally I am not blaming MB for the way that these guys are supposedly depicted on his show. I blame society. Resortgirl, if you believe everything that you see on tv(the media, actors, sports figures, etc.) than you are leading a very isolated life and I would encourage you to get to know a more diverse group of people. If I believed everything that I saw on TV then I would think that most white people are very boring, and I would get that from the sitcoms. I think that a lot of the humor is not funny at all. Such as Friends, am I correct in assuming that all white people are disfunctional or Seinfeld, a show which I really like, once again very disfunctional people. Now, I don't think that all white people are disfunctional because I work with and grew up with and am friends with white people. And actually when I am around these people I don't think of them as white people only as individuals. I also know a lot of black people and white people that I just want to punch because they are idiots. That has nothing to do with their color. So I am not defending Sean as a contestant on the show, what I am doing is defending all black men in America as individuals who eithe represent themselves positively or negatively. Because television aparently is doing a great dis-service to us as a group. |
Spygirl | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 05:50 pm     I can honestly say that I have never heard of the stereotype of a "black lazy man" until this discussion. Don't know what that means, I'm just sayin'... |
Car54 | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 06:15 pm     Underdog, do you by any chance know Sean? You seem to have a lot of info about him. Personally there seems to be a side to him we don't see on the show... yet most of the boots have spoken positively about him... just wondering |
Nanya | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 07:15 pm     Well said yuhuru..even sleepy! Does anyone other than underdog & a few others understand that this discussion is NOT about the show and how deeply our thoughts and emotions run along racial issues? I've read what I consider to be some healthy dialogue. So maybe survivor is shedding some light in the corners of each of our worlds. Black people sing, dance. smile and pray a lot. Its a cultural coping tool passed thru many generations and has held us in good stead. It in no way indicates that we have forgotten or that we are oblivious to injustice. We cope because we must. Have a safe and blessed Easter everybody! |
Llkoolaid | Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 07:47 pm     Can anyone tell me when on survivor a black man has been portrayed in a good light. I don't mean just one or two shots of them working but an overall picture. I am not talking about the type of people that are picked because I agree with Resortgirl, all the black males have been "sucessful, articulate, athletic people",I am looking for examples of black men who have been portrayed for their good qualities. I know we have seen portrayals of lazy and sneaky white men and women, there have been evil and bitchy ones too that we all loved to hate. But we have seen just as many or more white contestants in positive roles as hard working, honest, friendly people. They become the ones we root for. Maybe I am just stupid and forgetful but I can't honestly say I remember that ever being so. If this is true then case closed, the article stands and I don't see how anyone can disagree with it. I am not trying to pick apart anyones opinions or argue with anyone but I truthfully can't understand why everyone can't see what is so obvious too me. |
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