Archive through May 17, 2002
The ClubHouse: Archives: WHO WANTS TO GET SPOILED - TONIGHTS SHOW 5/16:
Archive through May 17, 2002
Bohawkins | Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 10:51 pm     Sia, that was an excellent post. Earlier I mentioned briefly in a post, my own appraisal of the Paschal observations and those concur with your more detailed and expressive comments. Paschal has been there observing Sean for quite some time, and there was something that we weren't made privy to, regarding Sean's character and conduct, that Paschal had observed long before. He had made a comment to John (before John's faux pau with the coconut slashing resulted in his demise) that he "didn't want someone like that winning this thing." I read into that comment that he had concluded some serious character flaws in Sean. I know in my own activities in my work and in recreational sports clubs, I will come across someone who simply reveals to me by things they say, and how they respond to certain situations, that they are shallow, deceptive people of poor character. Once you understand who someone is, your relationship with them is altered. I think Pascal had a very close look at Sean, and he knew by the time he made the comment to John that he wanted Sean not to win. The feast with Sean allowed Pascal to be friendly with him, but nothing that happened there showed him any difference in Sean's character. I am believing that Pascal made a very good decision in targeting Sean. |
Sunriverose | Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:14 pm     I do not think that Sean's "outburst" had anything to do with the voting at all. He had to go because he was actually the most physically fit and most likely to win IC's. That was all there was to it. Seeing his performance in tonight's RC made it clear that he is a very bright, competative, and fit young man. Ergo, he had to go. I don't think Kathy had any ill feelings toward him, She wants to win and he was the greatest threat. |
Bohawkins | Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:37 pm     Very well said, Sunriverrose. I think that may indeed have been the primary motivation on Kathy's and Neleh's parts in booting Sean. The outburst and exchange was just clearing the air about feelings on both sides and perhaps was really showing why Paschal was voting Sean. But, you are probably right about Kathy's motivation. Sean would have swept the final physical competitions. |
Mygetaway | Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:40 pm     I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said. However,...{LOL} I would like to say that I too, really hope Kathy pulls it out and wins, because I won't be thrilled with any of the others as the winner. I think Sean sunk his own boat, Kathy may have leaned that way at one point but we will never know for sure.. unless she tells us. They casted Neleh as an Elizabeth type, and if she was, I'd be so happy right now, but she is no where near that likeable. I was really hoping that ACME and the others were wrong this time. Oh well.. Sean got a nice new car, with NO payments!! Woo-hoo. (I've never had or probably never will get a new car) |
Mygetaway | Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:47 pm     Hey..anybody still up and reading.. Rosie is on Conan tonight. I don't know what time he tapes, but I wonder if she saw the final ep before she went to tape? |
C1mag | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:00 am     Since this is the thread to post opinions about tonights episode I'll throw some quick thoughts in here. I thought Paschal was a JERK!! Sorry but thats how I saw him. Condescending and true blue rude as hell. How dare he "Size" anyone up in a game where deciete is paramount to winning. He himself has been a liar. He swore that his word was honor to John and then he helped vote him out. I think Paschal got ticked because Sean tried to use the "Race Card" and I think that was when Paschal could take no more of Sean. How many cases do you suppose that Paschal has heard where an African American cried foul because of his ethnicity? Probably thousands. I think it's a personal problem that irk's Paschal. That was evident in his comment to Neleh when she was crying about Sean and Vee using the race card. He said, "We owe them NOTHING" ... That comment sorta made me cringe. I also didn't like his suggestion that his upbringing gave him the edge over some kid from Harlem. To me, and possibly only me, I thought Paschal came across as a pure breaded superior rascist with one major attitude! By the way I'm white and usually hate the suggestion of rascism because it's over used all the time. However, maybe for the first time I can say, I'm pretty sure Paschal had problems with Sean that probably were based on Seans Ethnicity. I think Kathy voted out Sean for only one reason. Paschal pushed his button's and Sean freaked out and Kathy can't handle stress. Look, either way she voted she was going to make it to at least number 3. Sean even told her that if she gave him the knecklace and he won the final immunity he'd pick her to go with him to the finals. There was no reason to doubt that. I think she just couldn't take his mouth and Paschal was instrumental in bringing that out in him. Who else has made that deal for her? Sanity was more important to her at that point. |
Seamonkey | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:01 am     Well he'll have to pay some taxes but he'll have some winnings. I just posted in favorites thread my analysis of how Kathy's gotten to this point, won't repeat it here. Two small points from tonight.. after complaining about being linked to Vee by race (in his mind, by the others), Sean won and Vee immediately mentioned "Harlem". (I think Sean has risen from whereever he started in Harlem long ago, should be justifiably proud of his education and career, winning a challenge doesn't even compare). And Sean stressing/excusing himself as being young. He is young. For sure. But he's 30, not THAT young and there are 6 people who started this competition who are younger, with Neleh being the youngest of them, don't think Sean would cut them any slack, so why is he expecting it? Rosie is EVERYWHERE this week but I think it is way more about her leaving her show, and publicizing her book, and talking about gay adoption issues much more than Survivor.. She was on Larry King for an hour last night and I don't think Survivor came up at all. Just the show, her book, her wealth, her kids, her partner, the kid on the way, people she's interviewed, etc. |
Seamonkey | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:06 am     Actually as Sia, I think, pointed out.. it was Jeff Probst who first called Sean on his contradiction.. And Kathy called him on it. Paschal called him on the continued accusation that Neleh and Paschal had a "secret alliance". That's how I saw it. And heard it. |
C1mag | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:24 am     I'd also like to add that it was disgusting to hear Neleh at this stage of the game say to kathy that it would make her sick to her stomach if Kathy ended up in a final 3 with Sean and Vee. How sweet of her. Would God approve? hahahaha !! What she really meant to say was that it would make her barf if she lost at this point because she has played the old man like a violin and controled the vote all the way. It should also be noted that Sean did say to Paschal that no matter what was being said at Tribal Council he still respected Paschal very much and not ONCE did Paschal return that respect. To me there are key things to give you an idea of a mans character and as far as I'm concerned Paschal has a flaw in his and it does have to do with ethnicity. It was too obvious. I still don't understand where Paschal came up with the idea that someone was not "Worthy" of the prize in this game. If you make it to the end then you're worthy. How you got there makes no difference. Where in the rules does it say you don't get the money if you didn't help get water and food for the others? All ya gotta do is beat the tribal votes. I'd hate to have Paschal as a judge. Looks like he takes a look at someone and decides their fate based on just a vibe or feeling he has about the person in general. Ok I'm done venting. Hahahaha! P.S. Kathy's gonna win and to be honest, she deserves it the most! |
Mssilhouette | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:30 am     UM before I go into a lenthy opinion of the this week's show I just wanted to know how come Pappy could "size" up Sean but couldn't see how the other 4 were gonna get ready to out them dispite John and the rest telling P and N that they wouldn't kick them out. Suddenly Pappy's judging experience didn't quite work there but he has the inside track on Sean? Give a freaking break. There was more to his judgement than just his observations. I think what really pissed Sean off was the fact that Pappy was calling him names for doing basically the same things Pappy was doing. Frankly Kathy should have gone with her best bet. Considering she's gonna be up against two people who folks like...at least pick the people you're most likely to win against. Well it was an interesting show to say the least. I think the whole race card crap got blown out of porportion. Vee and Sean were saying not to assume that because they were black that they would vote the same. Then suddenly everyone's talking about them playing the race card, which was not what was going on. At least that's my opinion. Can't wait until the final show. |
Car54 | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:53 am     Gosh I feel like I saw a different show than several posters! I think Sean and Vee honestly beleived that they did not have a total committment to "alliance", that they had been together since the beginning, and would consult each other,but would play for their own best interests. I'm sorry, but the comments that both Paschel and Neleh made about Sean and Vee's actions and winning being "sickening" are what were out of line, and there is no changing it...both made the comments on camera on multiple occasions. AWARE~~~~~~I was missing you so much!!! I don't think it really matters much which twosome Kathy picked... she stands about an equal chance either way. Sean was the most fit, strongest, so she has a better chance to beat the others in the final endurance challenge, and frankly after all this, I don't see how Paschel could beat her on the jury. Neleh seems to have made some friends on the jury, but I don't think any of them would vote for her over Kathy in the F2- Neleh has been a secret threat since the beginning...she used Paschel from day one, but that seems to have been her strategy. Kathy had kept her balance, and she gave her vote to her original tribe mates, she paid them back for keeping her over Gina, she took out the biggest physical threat, and probably the person who is going to make the next 3 days the most stressful. She didn't lose anything- she would have been in the same position either way. It is all about immunity. Go K! |
Twiggyish | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:36 am     Sean was giving an honest opinion when Jeff asked him. Jeff knew this was a touchy subject. I was disgusted with Neleh's smug face when Paschal and Sean were having their heated discussion. As to the car, I totally agree with you Sia. Paschal is a Judge, I am sure he already has a nice vehicle. The reward challenge sounded grueling. He was just too tired to go for it. I'm going to root for either Vee or Kathy at this point. |
Fruitbat | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:39 am     Great thread. I agree. << heh heh heh heh >> There is so much we don't see and the reason Kathy chose to vote for Sean will remain a mystery for me until I hear her talk about it. Sean offered her a spot in the final two, so there must have been a very compelling reason not to accept that offer. The jury certainly would not have faulted her for that taking that opportunity. That is the goal of the entire game, second to winning. Paschal did not shine tonight. |
Micknrc | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:50 am     Car! Dude! You're living in my brain! I myself was too exhausted to weigh in last night, so I'll try not to repeat too much of what's already been said. At no time did I see S/V be deceptive or play a race card. The fact that they they call themselves A-As is merely that--a statement of fact. But some white folks hear "A-A" and immediately scream "race card" without bothering to glean context or intent. Sean and Vee know this and I believe this whole thing started as they tried to address their anxiety over what "white folks" might see as a natural A-A bond/alliance. I think Sean's distress at TC was indicative of how much he's been put on the defensive and been willfully misunderstood on the topic of "alliances." I felt really bad for Sean as I'm the same type of person, who, when put on the defensive, gets shriller and louder until I've managed to somehow make it all worse, to my own dismay and regret. I'm with Car, C1mag, and everyone else who thought Pappy and Neleh were despicable last night. The height of hypocrisy. Yeah, real Christian attitudes there. If you don't like Sean because he never worked hard enough--fair enough. Vote him out on that. But P/N are using their own subconscious and ingrained bigotry to justify their desired end. If either of them win, I'll be the one who's sickened. Not a popular opinion but: To me Africa is still the best Survivor in terms of the people and personalities. (The location was merely unfortunate). This one has been interesting because the game is finally undergoing cosmic shifts away from the safe but boring pagonging of the first three times. But unlike S3, I think this show had the worst casting yet. I can't stand the players who are succeeding in the end (except for Kathy--Let's face it, she deserves it at this point for putting up with all this crap!) And to think if I hadn't tried to vote her out 2 or 3 times in the beginning--I'd be Queen of the Deadpool by now! I'm anxious to see how it develops from S5 on, as the players become more savvy every time. At first that was bad, because we couldn't have the innocence and naivete of the first one (**sniff** still miss you Greg!), but now we are just starting to see the possibilities of how the game can REALLY be played. Finally (whew) Kathy needs to go to Vee now (doesn't matter who gets immunity) and take Pappy out! If he's got Immunity, then Neleh, then him. Kathy and Vee final 2--Kathy wins 5-2. I'm done for now. |
Car54 | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 06:14 am     OMG, Mick, you said it babe! Bryant Gumbel did half the Early Show interview and directly asked Sean about Pappy's statements. Particularly the statement made that Sean and Vecipia, ("THEY") thought they were "owed" something. Sean responded with tremendous dignity and discretion and said that Bryant would have to ask Paschel about what he meant. I totally agree, I have thought all along that whoever cast this Survivor should be fired...who the heck thought Sarah, Zoe and Robert would bring anything to this game? Did I read that S5 would be cast by the people who cast Big Brother? OMG, Justin!!!!!!Krista!!!!!!Mike Boogie!!!! Nicole!!!!!! |
Grooch | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:08 am     I agree with Car, MsS, Mickrnc and most of of what C1mag said. One thing I don't understand. Paschal said that Sean coasted through the game so he didn't deserve to win. What did Paschal do that was different? Kathy should have kept Sean. I think he was the most loyal to her and he really respected her. He had no firm alliance with Vee. She even said that if Kathy gave immunity to Sean she would align with the other 3. She is a loose cannon. S/V had a shaky alliance, P/N have a solid one. She should have voted P or N off. But since she went the way with P/N, why didn't she insist that Vee be the one instead? She is the flakiest. |
Grooch | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:10 am     Oops, I meant to say that I agree with Micknrc except for the part about Africa being the best Survivor. ;) |
Car54 | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:17 am     Grooch, I think she chose Sean because she knew N&P would choose him not Vee, and also because he was in the best physical condition, so he was her biggest IC threat. She needs that immunity for the next two times. He beat her on the car, and the last IC may be endurance...he was still pretty strong compared to Paschel and Neleh. |
Wink | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:29 am     I laughed out loud when I heard Pappy call Sean disingenuous. Earlier he had told Kathy "you know if you hook up with Sean and Vee you'll be odd man out." And if she hooked up with Neleh(who absolutely cannot hold a candle to Elisabeth) and Pappy she would be ???????? I guess I'm repeating what others have said but I found Paschal's outburst very unsettling and attribute some of it to his fatigued state of mind but I think both he and Neleh were playing their own subconcious(or not) race card. He called Sean and Vee "sickening". Neleh referred to being sick to her stomach if they were in final three. Pretty strong statement to explain their lack of effort to do daily chores. There must be some very compelling stuff on the cutting room floor to explain these outbursts. I've been on the Kathy train since the third episode and at this point feel she above all the others deserves the win. From my point of view her integrity is still pretty well intact. I hope the jury sees it that way too. |
Grooch | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:31 am     But did she decide she was voting Sean before hand or not? If yes, then she could have said to P?N that I am siding with you, but I want Vee gone or I will side with S/V. She has the power. And Sean would definitely be loyal to her. Wink, I agree with you!!!!!!!!! |
Twiggyish | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:33 am     I thought the "coasting" comment was rude on Paschal's part. Sean had a strategy, Pappy had a strategy. |
Kaili | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:39 am     I have to agree with what C1mag said above- I had a lot of problems with Pascal tonight and got a strong feeling of underlying racism in him. The one thing C1mag didn't mention was the one that stood out the most to me- Pascal's "Confederacy" comment as he held up his vote for Sean at the end. I hope now Kathy and Vee team up and are able to break apart Pascal and Neleh. Kathy could then be best off taking Vee with her to the end |
Grooch | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:41 am     Either I missed it or it went over my head. What was his confederacy statement? |
Faerygdds | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:45 am     OK... I think I am actually over last night enough to talk about it. I really need to rewatch the show because frankly I screamed through the whole thing! Who knows why(turn sarcasm meter on), but for some reason I kept yelling, "OMG! They are SO proving Vee's point!" I yelled because darned it... My Mother was right 4 weeks ago when she mentioned to me, "never forget... Pappy is an old SOUTHERN Judge from Georgia." I am NOT A-A... but you know what... My Dad was supposed to be on the bus in Mississippi back in the 60's (you know... when the boys that drove disappeared - Think Mississippi Burning)... I have always been raised to believe that minds are like parachutes - they only work when open! I spent the whole show so MAD!!! OK... so maybe I'm NOT calm enough to talk about this yet! My dh said... you mean S/V are NOT an alliance... I looked at him and I said... lemme put it to you this way... In an final 3 with Sean, Vee, and Kathy.... I think Kathy would take Sean, Vee would take Sean, and Sean would probably take Kathy. For no other reason than... it's the only move if you want the mil... <sigh> I was so bummed last night... kept hearing Pappy say to Kathy (in my head)... You are from Vermont... I'm from Georgia, and Sean is from Harlem... makes my tummy churn when I remember it... the way he said it.... the implications.... ugh... ok... can't type anymore... |
Micknrc | Friday, May 17, 2002 - 07:50 am     I know Faerygdds...I feel your pain...It was worse than gross... |
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