Archive through November 25, 2001

The ClubHouse: Archives: -- GENERAL ARCHIVES --: November: Go KELLY: Archive through November 25, 2001

Sawheel17

Friday, November 23, 2001 - 05:25 pm Click here to edit this post
As always Kep. Nicely said.:)

Kep421

Friday, November 23, 2001 - 05:37 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks Moonie, Weinermr, Car and Sawheel! I'm glad you all agree.

OK, maybe I was too hard on Kelly so I will be watching for signs that I misjudged her. Maybe she was having a bad moment and Frank just happened to be foremost in her mind during that moment.

It could've happened.....

Snee

Friday, November 23, 2001 - 08:19 pm Click here to edit this post
i agree with you on frank, kep. i think you are spot on. i would also like to give kelly the benefit of the doubt, but man, that was so out of line about introversion and taking a pill. people can't be different? i would love to see in the insider that she thought better of that.

Muse

Friday, November 23, 2001 - 09:03 pm Click here to edit this post
If I were Kelly, I probably wouldn't like Frank either. He distances himself from others, and he can come across as being really bossy. Plus she thinks he sold out his tribe (by voting for Silas), and has heard horror stories from the Mallrats. She doesn't know him. And his behavior with the elephants was a bit...odd. Sorry, but I'd be looking at him funny if I was there too. :) I don't think he's crazy or necessarily needs medication, but he probably wouldn't be my favorite person out there. I can understand Kelly saying that she doesn't like him, or thinks he's anti-social, or that she'd rather vote him off than Clarence or whoever. But she went too far with her comments. I thought she came across as rude and nasty, especially since she didn't have any personal grudge against him.

So sure, Frank's reserved. It's fine to not like that type of personality. But I don't think that means that he should be medicated. That's just his personality type, and if he's comfortable with being himself, I don't see a problem with it. Kelly can criticize, but I don't see why she's being mean.

Realtvfan

Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 04:10 am Click here to edit this post
My 2 cents on Frank.

Frank did fit in to the second Boran Tribe. The three original Boran members welcomed Frank, Teresa, and Silas. They had to welcome them, it was three to three.

Frank taught ALL of them in Boran how to use an arrow and helped them win. Frank worked with ALL of them to teach them how to skin a chicken. Frank gushed big time as he said he was very happy to be with the "new" Boran when Jeff asked during the tribal council that removed Silas. Frank mentioned respect, maturity etc... and how comfortable Frank felt with the new Boran. Frank smiled.

At the last tribal council, Brandon was asked by Jeff P. what was new with the new tribe. Brandon (of all people) said that he has never seen the "softer" side of Frank in the old tribe.

What changed to cause Frank's issue?

Frank said it. "Do you ever feel like you have been invited to the Hayfields' family picnic, but your name is McCoy"?

He and Teresa saw what happened when the old Boran tribe got back together on the hike back to camp and they both knew they were out.

Teresa is a beautiful woman and that can help in 2 ways, 1 ) as it obviously did with Tom, and 2) she is not a threat to win immunities.

Frank was having a wonderful time in the Boran tribe and he saw it taken away during that walk back to camp. I can not blame Frank for his feelings. I can blame Kelly for her immaturity. Frank knows that with 3 "girls" from the old Tribe, the men (himself) has to go home after Clarence. As far as being with people who love Frank, he can do that when he gets home. Let Frank enjoy the once in a lifetime treat of "talking to the animals". I have no complaints about what Frank was doing. He is never going back to Africa so he wants to take a moment and enjoy the special times of Africa.
Go Frank.

Car54

Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 04:27 am Click here to edit this post
I guess I really relate to Frank-
If he stays low and keeps quiet, I don't think he is going anywhere this week- the next targets will be Lex, Brandon, and if Lex finds out about his vote, Teresa. If Frank stays sweet and quiet, (and if it was me,I would not even try for immunity-it makes you a target) he will be there a while longer I think.

Fruitbat

Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 04:59 am Click here to edit this post
OK, I stand corrected. What all of you have said makes sense. I am being hard on Frank, I realize. I see he has difficulty socializing. I don't think Kelly's comments were about being an introvert but aimed at his anti social behavior. They are different subjects.

I think living with Frank is difficult for Kelly, who is under stress as well. She does not feel secure with Lex and Tom (nor should she)and acted out. Neither one of them was stellar as far as taking the high road. I like Kelly though.

I can see Frank as a target very soon. He has the physical strength to be a threat for IC. Rather than throw in the towel so early in this merge it would behoove him to seek an alliance with Samburu and quickly.

Kep421

Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 06:41 am Click here to edit this post
You are so right Realtvfan, we did get to see the softer side of Frank after he switched to Boran.

But I think his isolation is due to more than just thinking he's the next one gone. I think Frank was hesitant at first to be around the redesigned merging Samburu tribe because he was unsure of what the Mallrats had said about him and how much of it Lex, Tom and Kelly believed.

If all those bad feelings he had while living at Samburu came flooding back immediately after the merge, that would explain why he felt so isolated. And who knows, maybe Kelly, Brandon or KimP made a remark or said something that ended up on the editing chopping block.

I'll bet dollars to donuts Frank was thinking that Kelly, Lex and Tom would come back and say awful things about him and that the rest of the old Boran tribe would believe them. Don't forget, Silas tried to make him out to be this terrible person but no one believed him. Frank was probably nervous that the old Boran tribe members would be quicker to believe their former members.

I don't remember if Lex or Tom said anything about how they feel about Frank, but Kelly sure made her feelings clear to the camera. And it appeared that her negative feelings were based on what she had been told. I think that if Kelly had not been told bad things about Frank, she probably would not have been so offended by Frank's behavior.

Hopefully, as Frank comes to realize that not everyone sees him in the same light he will feel more comfortable in his new tribe. I don't think MamaKim will believe anything unless she sees it first hand and I'm betting that Theresa will always be his friend.

Gina8642

Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 04:40 pm Click here to edit this post
I think the thread started out to see who else likes Kelly.

Well, right now I do. I think she is refreshingly honest when speaking to the cameras.

As far as the "Frank take a pill comments" - remember Kelly is trained to be a behaviorist. There is alot of training on pill taking etc. in that discipline. It may sound out of place to everyday people, but pyscologists in my experience are always talking about which pill will cure what. Both is serious conversation, and just causual joking conversation. I wouldn't make much of it, it is just the world she moved in throught out college.

I'm very pro Kelly right now. But I've also noticed that since I've started to watch reality TV, I'm always routing for the underdog. I really don't like the ones who seem to have the current power. So right now, I'm really down on Lex.

So to the starter of this thread - -

GO KELLY!!

Fruitbat

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:37 am Click here to edit this post
Those of you here that are supporting Frank. I have a question. Did any of you think that gathering fire wood while the others ate and his talk to the camera was even a tad defeatist and sullen? He seemed to view himself as the victim of fate.

He said something to the effect that he would be taken along with Boran or not. How about getting together an alliance on his own? He managed to do that in the first few days. He seemed angry with his situation yet he alienated half of his original team straight out of the gate. Granted the brats were, well brats, but T was able to connect with them and may reap those benefits now.

Kep421

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 06:25 am Click here to edit this post
No Fruitbat, I didn't think he was being defeatist and sullen, I think he was feeling inadequate and unable to cope. He doesn't have the knack for the social graces and his interpersonal skills could definately use a boost, but he has no clue on how to overcome that at the moment.

He really did try to be part of the group in the very beginning, and you said so yourself, all that accomplished was alienating half his tribe. Frank realizes he is a loner and not everyone wants to take the time to get to know him, and now there are five more people to contend with - two that hate him, three that might.

I think Frank is taking a "don't rock the boat" attitude. I think that's what he meant when he said something about going with Boran or not. If he was being sullen, I think he would have sat in a corner with a "poor little me" pout, kinda like Brandon's. I think he realizes if he tries to take charge and change the situation, his personality will rub everyone the wrong way and make things worse. Frank could just be trying to stay out of the line of fire and he is doing that the only way he knows how. By keeping himself busy and out of the way.

As for Kelly, she may be qualified to determine who need pills, but what I don't understand is why does she think that someone who is introverted, reserved and a loner need medication? She said he was a "psycho", but she didn't say why he was a psycho other than he stays by himself a lot.

If Frank did something to Kelly personally, I don't think she would have kept quite about it on camera. It appears she is basing her very judgmental opinion of Frank on second hand information coming from KimP and Brandon. That's very unfair to Frank and to me her comments are suspect...

Car54

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 06:53 am Click here to edit this post
Well put Kep. I am kinda like Frank.... a lot of times if I am in a situation where I feel like I don't fit in, I tend to step away- I am not able to relax and ease into the group, so I relate to how he is feeling. I tend to make myself useful- that is usually appreciated in a group. Frank did this and he probably shone his brightest when he was able to help his team learn to shoot the arrows and win immunity. He really relaxed a lot then. Right now, he sees the returning Old Borans as unknowns- strong men- so his being a strong man is not unique or as important, and the young Samburus have a bad history for him.

I think the scene where he says he never betrayed a handshake is really significant. If Frank has an alliance (Teresa) he will not betray HER.

I am thinking if Teresa makes an effort toward the young Samburus, it will be very difficult for Frank to go along, which will make it hard for the Samburus to oust Lex- they need his vote badly- and still need one more vote by one of the old Borans.
I am hoping that Frank will be able to talk to Teresa or someone else and work through these feelings, otherwise I think he will be out.

Fruitbat

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 01:14 pm Click here to edit this post
I am liking Frank better after reading this thread. He rubbed me the wrong way this week. Maybe I will warm to him in time. I think his days may be numbered though.

Car54

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:05 pm Click here to edit this post
I wish the women on this show would realize that if they got together and got Brandon to vote with them, right now they could beat the men.

Teresa+KimJ+Kimp+Kelly+Brandon = 5 votes
Lex+Tom+Ethan+Frank=4 votes

Kim J and Kelly have discussed this- they know the L/T/E alliance doesn't really value the women and that they will eventually be out.

Come on Kelly....quick before they pick off one more of you....get these girls together!

Moondance

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:09 pm Click here to edit this post
I agree Car... Frank will never go with the malbrats and we saw Theresa talking with them in the preview... I hope the bond Theresa and Mamak has strengthen and Kelly opens her eyes ... this would be interesting.

Weinermr

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:30 pm Click here to edit this post
Somehow, I think if a man suggested that the men pick off the women one by one, more than a few women (and hopefully men too) would find that idea offensive. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but I don't like it at all.

Why don't they find out what religion each one follows, and pick off all the Presbyterians one by one? Or find out which ones are of Eastern European heritage? Why not find out which players come from divorced parents, and oust them summarily.

Perhaps you don't see a problem with this way of thinking. I do.

I know, it's just a game. Well I don't like this particular version of it. Enjoy your game.

Car54

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:43 pm Click here to edit this post
Sorry Weinermr-
but if you think about it, that is what is probably going to happen- L/T/E have all commented about how they do all the work, intend to win....
The women are not essential, and in the plan, they probably WILL be gone.
In this case unless they unite, they are going to be eliminated whenever it is convenient- probably Teresa first- since she has shown she is capable of winning an immunity challenge.

Urgrace

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:44 pm Click here to edit this post
Weinermr, I think some of the women here just want the female show the strength that usually comes from the male species. It is in our cultures, religion, societies, etc. to let the men lead, so it would be refreshing to see the women get ahead! Yes it is just a game, and sometimes the teams end up guys vs. gals! I have nothing against guys, personally!

Great time for a nice limerick! Show us your rhyming strength!

Moondance

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 03:59 pm Click here to edit this post
Weinermr... it's a game and we are only talking strategies ... women sticking together is similar saying the borans stick together or the Samburas to stick together. Like Car said T/L/E have had similar conversations:)

What I would like to see is Theresa, MamaK, Ethan to make a pack and surprise us all! String Lex and Tom along for as long as possible.

Weinermr

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:51 pm Click here to edit this post
I'm afraid you're just not going to see it from my point of view, and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone here, so I will just drop it and move on.

Urgrace

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:53 pm Click here to edit this post
No offense here!

Moondance

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 04:58 pm Click here to edit this post
I do see your point of view Weinermr... I am a woman and I live it everyday... If it bothers you woman here suggests that they pick off the men, try being a woman and dealing with prejudice everyday... this is nothing to what I have experience from men hence the suggestion that this is a game and we have fun with it and not take it so seriously... JMO

:)

Kep421

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:04 pm Click here to edit this post
Oh no, Weinermr...no one thinks your being offensive. I understand what you mean, and your right, it would be better if people formed groups based on personalities and not gender.

But if I remember correctly, Boran originally divided along gender lines and for a while it was the boys vs the girls. And I thought Samburu's division of age groups was even more damaging to the tribe as a whole.

While it may not be politically correct to align oneself with only people of the same race, gender or religion, it is still a very human thing to do.

Moondance

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:06 pm Click here to edit this post
Damn Kep, you say it so much better than me!:)

Kep421

Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 05:08 pm Click here to edit this post