Archive through July 02, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Road Rules - South Pacific (ARCHIVES):
Archive through July 02, 2003
Grooch | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 09:49 am     So was it ok when Stephen slapped Irene when she pushed his buttons? Or when Gladys went after Abe down in Mexico? Abram was still wrong. He should have left the building instead of going after him. Like (Campus Crawl) Darrel did when Shane slapped him upside the head when they were making prank phone calls. |
Puttergirl | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:13 am     I wasn't trying to say that Abram wasn't wrong. I said it in my first sentence but probably didn't stress it enough. He was definitely wrong. I just feel incredible empathy for him and feel like they should punish Donnell's inappropriate behavior as much as Abram's violent behavior. People like Donnell only get worse if you appear to validate their behavior. He admits that he tries to push Abram to his limit! |
Laura11103 | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:34 am     Oh yeah, no doubt Abram should've found the strength to walk away... but it was great watching that *bleep* *bleep* bleepin* *bleep* get what he deserved, lol.... I swear, I'm a peaceful, non-violent person normally.... |
Kappy | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:41 am     I agree, Grooch, that it's not okay to hit someone because they're pushing your buttons. But I also agree that Donnell has been downright sickening in his taunting for at least 3 episodes now. Abe at least attempts to listen to others and to attempt to work the problems out. I have yet to see Donnell listen to anyone else. The fact that he's proud of his taunting of Abe is evidence enough to me that if Abe is sent home, Donnell should be as well. I just hope that when the tapes are played for the others, the taunts that began from the very first moment that morning, are all shown and not just the final argument between the two. And frankly, since the 2nd episode, I've felt that Donnell is dealing with the knowledge that he is gay but he doesn't want to come out. Which could explain the violence against a girlfriend. Just a thought. But it's strange that he's so brave about attacking a girl but runs when it's a guy. Donnell is the little brat on the playground who blames everyone else when his own actions have gone too far. |
Laura11103 | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 12:01 pm     They're all gonna see, whether Abram stays or not, Donnell is gonna end up pushing everyone's buttons sooner or later. Remember he got mad at the girls a few episodes ago when they were poking fun at him (the way he does to everybody) and he clearly said (in the camera interview), that he can dish it out but he can't take it. Someone's gonna say the wrong thing and it'll be over, Donnell's a timebomb waiting to explode. Oh and if they do get rid of Abram, forget about it, do you think this group will get through even one mission? Doubtful, especially having to baby Donnell the whole time. |
Cjr | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 12:26 pm     I hate violence in almost all instances but I was glad when Abe finally punched Donnell. Sometimes the schoolyard bully learns quicker lessons when someone actually takes him on. No amount of talking can do any good when a bully is not going to listen. Abe did leave and came back trying to talk to Donnell like a man, even apologized for his hurtful remark. He knew instantly what he said was wrong and apologized. Donnell wouldn't dream of accepting an apology and trying to talk through things. I agree with Seamonkey's statement about Donnell trying to get his biggest competition booted. He knows he can't win this on his own. Abe was so right when he commented on people liking him for the missions but treating him like crap otherwise. Everyone has a breaking point. At least Abe was trying to do the right thing before he got to his. |
Seamonkey | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 01:09 pm     Donnell started in on Abe in the first or second episode when he stole the trunks and threw them on top of the RV and locked Abe out, naked.. I absolutely feel that Donnell is more homophobic than he'd ever admit (and it may well be from his own fears of his own feelings) And I, too, am disappointed, because I was really happy to see Donnell included in this season. |
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Puttergirl | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 02:05 pm     I don't know who posted the above post, but its obvious that Donnell creates strong emotions in people. He must be a b____ to work and live with. Imagine him in the BB house- now that would be entertainment!!! I'm afraid I'd get an ulcer though with the amount of frustration he causes me! I think he generates this much hate because we all have had or now have a Donnell in our lives and know how awful it is!!!! |
Puttergirl | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 02:20 pm     The MTV site has a great description of the events that led up to the fight (http://www.mtv.com/onair/roadrules/season12/fight.jhtml?id=fight) ROUND ONE: "The Butt of Donell's Jokes- Donell said from the very beginning that Abe was his "little " on the trip. He claims that his incessant sarcastic remarks are all in good fun, but as we learn later, they start to wear Abe down. The Abe-bashing begins with an innocent practical joke, when Donell throws Abe's shorts on top of the RV while he's skinny dipping. More importantly, we get to see that Abe has a really nice butt." ROUND TWO: "Dirty Laundry- Donell thinks he has done a good deed by getting the Roadies' laundry done for free, but they learn that there's no such thing as free laundry. Because of a misunderstanding and possibly the language barrier, the Roadies learn that they each have to fluff up $22 for their laundry. A hefty price for Downy-fresh clothes when yer livin' on a tight budget. While everyone is shocked, they suck it up and take it in stride. Abe tries to negotiate the price down with the woman who has done their laundry. He rationalizes this by saying that a lot of things in Fiji are negotiable and he figured laundry was one of them. The other Road Rulers are embarrassed by his actions and tell him to pipe down." ROUND THREE: "Sticks and Stones- Definitely not taking any hints from Tony Robbins, Donell assumes the worst about Abe before the strongman competition and lectures him about how he should work as part of the team and not try to be the "hero" of the mission. That's probably not the best way to motivate and build team unity right before a mission. Tony would not approve." ROUND FOUR: "Calm Before the Storm- Despite the constant ribbing from Donell and some of the other Roadies, Abe never fails to step up come mission time. He is a positive force throughout the entire Sky Tower mission and encourages Donell to get psyched up for the mission and ultimately finish it. The two rivals even share a few hugs after they receive the tattoo. And that, ladies and gents, is the calm before the storm." ROUND FIVE: "Break Down- Donell won't shut the f-up and is admittedly trying to get a rise out of Abe in the dance studio after rehearsal. They talk about touchy subjects like race and sexuality and Donell basically tells Abe that his views are wrong and he hopes he learns something while he's on this trip. Abe has to leave the conversation several times in order to keep his anger in check. Donell has no concept of "taking it too far," so he keeps pushing and pushing until Abe cracks. Abe lets it slip that he thinks cornbread is being served for lunch and Donell is not pleased that he "went there." Abe quickly apologizes knowing he took their argument to another level with that kind of remark. But he also admonishes Donell for talking down to him and treating him like he's some "stupid redneck" from Montana." ROUND SIX: "Knock Out- Stuck in the middle, Dave tries to act as a mediator and encourages Abe to "say what he wants to say" and that happens to be a big ol' "f-you, Donell." That must have felt good. Then with a seriously deranged look in his eyes, Abe unleashes an unbelievable amount of pent-up rage onto Donell, yelling and throwing punches. Despite Dave's best efforts, he cannot keep the dynamic duo from the engaging in a brawl and it appears that one of them could be on their way home. Will Abe have to go home for throwing the first punch or will Donell be sent packing for provoking the incident? What will their teammates say? Do we really have to see Donell in a thong? Tune it next week, same Roadie channel, same Roadie time." |
Pantageas | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 03:29 pm     Have to admit I'm disappointed - not in the actions on the show, but in the response garnered here. Never would I have expected to see justification for ethnic or sexist remarks with seeming support for the resulting assault. And no I give no quarter to the concept of "well, he was pushing his buttons". Let's be frank - one of the things that got Abe frustrated was the Donnell wouldn't accept his apology AFTER he tossed his "cute little racial slur". And after that Abe didn't so much as apologize for his actions, as he tried to justify why his frustions made him decide to go after another castmate. Goose and gander anyone? Just as Donell was vilified after the evidence of his assault came to light(and justifiable so), this situation should reflect on NOONE except Abe. Let me see, what kind of crimes are excusable because the victim "was asking for it"... |
Max | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 05:02 pm     I think this whole mess reflects poorly on BOTH Abe and Donnell. Abe needs to be able to control himself more and get past some of the obvious prejudices he has. Donnell needs to GROW UP and learn that picking and picking and picking at people is just not acceptable. Oh, and by the way, Donnell has made plenty of jokes at Abe's expense (about where he's from, his personality, his perceived homophobia, etc.) that are just as offensive or even more so that Abe's cornbread remark. Both of them acted poorly and I think both should be booted, but I don't believe that's what is going to happen. I don't think there was anything remotely cute about anything that was said or done. I can simply identify more with Abe because if I were in his shoes (and I've been in similar situations before), it would be VERY difficult not to slap Donnell down. That wouldn't be the right thing to do, but I can understand wanting to do it. |
Monkeyboy | Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 11:28 pm     Yikes, Im outta here! |
Kappy | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:09 am     "Let me see, what kind of crimes are excusable because the victim "was asking for it"..." I guess beating up a girlfriend if you're Donnell. I don't see where people above were considering Abe's comments to be acceptable in any way. What I do think people are reacting to are the taunting and teasing that Abe has taken from Donnell since the beginning because it is a form of harassment. And harassment is just as hate-driven and IGNORANT as any racial or sexist slur. Both are wrong and both should be kicked off is anyone is. |
Puttergirl | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:19 am     I know one thing- MTV must be eating this up with a spoon. They haven't had this much excitement since Puck started waving his machete!!!! There's an idea- Puck vs. Donnell!!!!! |
Gina8642 | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 09:49 am     I think they both should be thrown off the show. |
Max | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:56 am     How about a Puck/David (thrown out of LA RW and stomped out of the Challenge)/Donnell show?  |
Pantageas | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:44 pm     Kappy: Since you quoted me, I'll assume you read my post. You neglected to quote the part where I said Donell was justly villified for assaulting a woman. Just to make it perfectly clear - I am NOT supporting Donell. I just know that Abe's actions were a HELL of a lot worse. As far as teasing and taunting, it's a childish thing to do. If Abe had responded as good as he got, I would have had no problem with either of them, except to say that they were both acting classless. The problem is that Abe wasn't CAPABLE of giving as good as he got, which is why he tried to resort to a racial slur. And the fact that he couldn't rile up Donell as much as Donell was riling him during their verbal sparring only compounded his frustration. Watch the scene again. You'll see it's so. He got maddest after he was called out on the racial slur, and Donell refused to accept his apology. Even so, TPTB LOVE that kind of verbal "back & forth". They try to cast people who will give them a verbal "back & forth". Without it, they wouldn't have a franchise. But again, my biggest disappointment was on this board. Reread this thread and see how many people were accepting, condoning, approving, understanding, and even REVELING in the assault. This scares me a HELL of a lot more than Abe's actions. And to think, not too long ago the folks here in the Clubhouse were horrified that someone in a fit of anger might use someone else's toothbrush to clean a toilet. But if someone says something you don't like, go upside his head... |
Monkeyboy | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 01:18 pm     No comment But i see where you are coming from Pantag. |
Laura11103 | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:19 pm     Sorry if we scared you Pantag. I know I'm guilty of enjoying Donnell get hit. I know it's wrong, and honestly, if I was there, I wouldn't've enjoyed it. We're all safely in our living rooms watching this show and it's easy to get carried away. I don't like Donnell, I empathized with Abe, I wanted Donnell to become reasonable but that wasn't happening.... Abe should've walked away and we should've turned off our tv's... I've never enjoyed watching someone get beat up before on tv. I am a little disappointed in myself as well. |
Puttergirl | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:38 pm     I won't argue with you, Pantageas, but I think you're exaggerating our remarks a bit. I think most of us expressed that we don't condone Abram resorting to violence, but felt empathy for him and just generally dislike Donnell. |
Monkeyboy | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 03:24 pm     ITA with Puttergirl. She said it perfectly. |
Pantageas | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 03:47 pm     Cut & pastes in quotes: "I was disgusted by both of their behavior in the most recent episode, but especially Donnell's." Because a physical response is less disgusting than a verbal response(no matter how tasteless)? "Im sorry, this is afwul(sic), but I kept screaming at the TV for Abram to hit Cara too. Snotty brat." And Donell is a bad person for bruising a girlfriend. But if she was being snotty to him first... "I was so freakin happy watching Abe punch him out, I wish he had actually hurt him. Abram was wrong to hit him, but I totally understand why he did." Because when people make me mad or insult me, I insult them back. Even if I think the only effective comment I can make is a racial one. Unless they don't get mad as I do. Then I hit them. And the more hurt they are the better. "As much as I know that violence is not the answer, I found myself rooting Abram on." Go team. "Oh yeah, no doubt Abram should've found the strength to walk away... but it was great watching that *bleep* *bleep* bleepin* *bleep* get what he deserved, lol...." Because people who say mean things deserve to be assaulted. Lol. "I hate violence in almost all instances but I was glad when Abe finally punched Donnell." Gandhi & MLK Jr. only half-rolled in their graves. And if you guys knew me, I'm not a peacenik by ANY sort of means. I actually came to the Clubhouse today because I expected an interesting dialogue on taunting, racial insults, geographical and enviromental differences in Americans, and the violence in this episode. Sorry you think I exaggerated Puttergirl. Just disappointed.  |
Seamonkey | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 05:01 pm     Well, I'm still with Putter.. saying you got some satisfaction from an act you wouldn't perform or condone is a way of venting. I'm not quoted, so I guess my posts rode the line ok, but yes, Abram stepped over the line to physically assault and that is the rule on this show, but I find verbal assault and harrassment to be every bit as damaging to people. IMO, Donnell is far more dangerous than Abe. |
Kappy | Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:53 pm     "I find verbal assault and harrassment to be every bit as damaging to people." Amen. |
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