Archive through February 19, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: American Idol (FOX): Tonight's show 2/18 (Tuesday): Archive through February 19, 2003

Car54

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Large, soft person here.

I did not find what Simon said unfair or hurtful.

I truly took it the way I think he meant it. He thinks she is good, and it will be easier to succeed if she loses weight. That simple.

I have been big all my life and that is the way 99% of the world thinks. Again, it is what it is.

And he is right...if she does lose weight her path will be much smoother in the career she wants to pursue.

I am not saying it is fair or just, just realistic...in the entertainment business, you are judged by how you look...and if you don't fit the mold, you have to be MORE talented or work harder than people who do fit.

I have spent my entire working life working harder and trying to keep getting smarter so I can stay ahead of the "norm", because that is what people prefer to hire.

Look at the geeky looking guys...most are not even getting a shot.

At least Simon took the time to offer his advice...he could have just rejected her, and he didn't. I think he got a bad rap. I think Vanessa actually handled it ok, by making it sort of humorous, and it was all fine.

I did not see the last week's show with Kimberly and Reuben, so cannot comment on his judgement there. I will only say he did not say it to be mean...I think he wants this girl to succeed...which she can do...but there are things she can do to make it come easier.

Weenerlobo

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
DJ - we do agree on a lot; I've noticed from other posts you've made that you said what I was thinking. So much so, that sometimes I don't even bother posting! Have you had your wisdom teeth pulled, or waiting to have them out? Either way, I can sympathize. I had five pulled when it was time, and that was a rough few days for sure.

Seems to me that Simon is having some pleasure in baiting some contestants this year. He did set Kimberly off last week and it seemed like he had the same gleam in his eye when he told Vanessa to lose weight. Seriously, some contestants really don't earn more than a sentence or a couple words from him. Maybe he's trying to show how well, or poorly, the better singers will react to blunt commentary. If that's his plan, I have no problem with it. Grace under pressure is important.

I'll join any uprising that will protest Clay's omission from the top ten. I really like that kid.

I will miss next week's group and won't be able to watch the tape until a week from Sunday. Kinda bummed about this, but I'm ready for a vacation!

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hereiam, boy, Clay has quite a fan base here. I, too, will be SO UPSET if he doesn't get a wild card spot. I would like to think that the 3rd place winner in each group will get a chance to perform in the wild card competition and after that, judge's discretion for the other four. So far, that will give us Clay and Kimberly Caldwell for sure. But I don't think it has been clarified at all how they will pick the wild card contestants. Anyone know?

Car, I understand what you are saying and I think Simon DID like Vanessa. What bothers me the MOST is that Simon is being terribly inconsistent to whom he is making the weight loss comments. We have Patrick in the first group who was rather heavy. Simon said nothing about his weight, but did comment on his outfit. Simon later commented to ET that Kimberly Caldwell, of all people, has baby fat to lose. In the next group we have Ruben and Kimberly who are arguably the heaviest of their gender in the semi-finals and NOTHING was said to them. Next we have Vanessa who is a little plump and undoubtedly did not choose the most flattering outfit for her body type and he tells her she needs to lose weight. If he is THAT concerned about weight why did he let the heaviest man and woman go through unscathed?

I guess people could argue that Ruben and Kimberly have voices that will carry them past the image factors, but all I see is an inconsistent judge!

I agree with Weener, I think he likes to bait people. And I think he just runs his mouth sometimes for attention!

Djgirl5235

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I second the agreement with Weener!!! He definitely likes to bait people, and I will agree with the grace under pressure thought as well.

Weener - no I haven't had any of my wisdom teeth pulled as yet (I'm hoping they'll rip this one out sooner rather than later, and we'll catch up on the rest at a later date.) I had 6 teeth pulled as a kid to make way for the teeth that I have in my mouth now and still don't have room for my wisdom teeth - small jaw anyone???

Thanks for the well wishes! **HUGS** to everyone!

Pamy

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Djgirl. I think the parents/friends belong in the audience! They are sooooo annoying!
I also agree that they put the best of the best in the last 2 groups and filled this with 2nd raters. Do they say how they decide who goes in each group, is it random? Clay would have advanced if he was in this group.
The girl that looked pregnant…why didn’t her family/friends tell her to change that dress!!!

Weenerlobo

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh yeah! That's what I forgot to mention! Thank for tickling my memory, Pamy. Was that Samantha's mom who plopped down on the couch? I'm really not feelin this whole "friends and family" theme this year and wonder if the show's associate producers have been scanning message boards like ours because it seems like the families are kept more in the background lately. Well, except for Samantha's mom! LOL! Stage Mom much? lol

Jbean

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
wcv, i agree about vanessa only having the hair in common with nikki. i was calling her a nikki-wannabe at first because she just seemed to be a lot like her, but then i didn't know much about her then. she is quite talented and i hope she makes it into the f10.

Jbean

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
someone said that they will be revamping vanessa tonight. don't know exactly what that means, but i guess we'll see.

Pamy

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
revamping=girdle

Yuhuru

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Simon's comment to Vanessa. I thought the same thing or shall I say similar thing. She's got to lose the gut. I believe he was really trying to help her. Regarding Kimberly and Ruben from last week. I think Simon only had room for one insult for Kimberly. He said that she didn't have any personality. I think that's worse than lose weight. Regarding Ruben, I think his weight works for him. He's like a massive teddy bear with the dimples and everything. Patrick's weight wasn't even worth mentioning with that outfi he had on.

The girl that sang "Giving him something that he can feel" was not good at all in my opinion. That song was recorded by both Aretha Franklin and En Vogue. She doesn't have the same talent level. She cheesed up the song-big time. I was sad because I love that song.

I'll repeat what most have said about the show---boooorrrrinnng

Car54

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hermione, I did not see the previous week's show, but I wouldn't say Simon strikes me as a particularly consistent, scientific person...he seems to me to be a bit moody...when he is having a good day...he sees thinks one way...if he is bored, he may see them another.

Not saying that is right, but how he is. ( I tend to be the same way- very short attention span here!) Some days, I may not notice something at all...the next day it bugs the crap out of me.

I think the weight thing is always in Simon's mind- after all he has to market these people if they win, but from the pics I have seen of Kimberly she dressed a bit more conservatively...Vanessa put herself out there...and caught him on a day he was bored...so he said what he was thinking.

Weenerlobo

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Pamy - lol!

Pantageas

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Hermione! I think Simon has a habit of "priming" the voters by ripping the contestants he'd rather not have advance. I remember watching last season thinking that RJ didn't deserve much of the merciless ripping he got from Simon. He wasn't my favorite, but he was never as bad as Simon made him out to be. At the same time, he ALWAYS seemed to have a good word for Christina...

This season, I think he's toned it down some after seeing the "sympathy voting" for Jim, RJ, AJ, and Nikki. I remember the "faint praise" he gave Frenchie and Kimberly L. He referred to them as merely "good singers, good job" for their mind-blowing Band of Gold performance; but in Frenchie's first solo audition in Hollywood, he leans over to Paula, covers his mouth and whispers "Damn! She is REALLY good, isn't she?. He's almost beside himself for having to admit that!

I think he took it easy on Ruben, because he thinks its easier to market a chubby guy than a chubby girl. I thinked he damned Kimberly L.'s performance with faint praise, because he couldn't disparage her talent. Same thing with Vanessa(easily the best last night, but had to detract in some manner). How else can you explain him going ga-ga over the weaker performance of Kimberly C. in the first round? And even after she's gone, he says publicly that she "needs to lose weight"? Please...!

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When it comes right down to it, Simon is allowed to say whatever he wants to say, I just don't see any rhyme nor reason to his pattern of whom he calls on the image thing and who he doesn't. But, like Car said, he is extremely moody. You just never know what is going to come out of his mouth. I still say paint them all with the same brush or don't paint them at all, but he isn't calling me for advice, LOL!

You gotta wonder if the judges are second guessing themselves. They are the ones that advanced these contestants to the semi-finals. Did they make some poor choices or our expectations too high? I really was bored last night.

Webkitty

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Yuhuru, I would rather be told I need to lose a few pounds than that I have no personality.

I think the reason Simon didn't say anything about Ruben is because its obvious that he is overweight, why bring up the obvious?
I also think the reason he didn't say anything about Kimberly last week was because she was not wearing a skimpy outfit. I was more puzzeled by his comment that she had no personality than by him telling Vanessa that she needed to lose a few pounds.

I just watched the tape again, and he did not comment last night in a mean way at all.

He said to her:

Your great. Great personality, great voice, brillant choice of song........I think you need to lose a few pounds.

He was going to go on, but Vanessa started talking over him and said:

its ok, I know I have a big butt, but it worked for J-Lo!! (as she stuck her butt out at them) Then she said: see, Randy likes it, Paula likes, you like it to Simon!

Then, Simon said, It was compliment! I think your great, all I'm saying is work out a bit!
(as he was looking at her upper body, not her butt)

I still think that if she wants to wear skimpy little slip things like she did last night, and if she wants to make it in showbiz, she needs to be humble enough to take advice. Simon was not putting her down, he was giving her advice.
She needs to understand that the camera adds pounds, and if she wants to wear clothes like that, that she is not Kelly Osbourne, who has endless connections, and can get away with being a little chunky and wearing anything.
No one told her she was ugly, or disgusting, or that she needs to be Celine skinny, just work out a little. She wants a career that is in front of the cameras, suck it up and deal. Don't stick your butt out at the judges and get all hardheaded about it.

I said this before, the kids that made it to the top 10 last year took critiques way worse than ~you need to lose a few pounds~ and took it like pros. (except for Justin that one time, but even then, it wasn't a display like I've seen this year from some)

Bottom line, I don't think Simon was out of line last night. Comparing Ruben/Kimbery/Vanessa is apples and oranges, imo.

Pamy

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think the producers may have told the kids it was ok to banter with the judges. I also was thinking that Simon really goes off on the wants to get picked but doesn't think will, because I think the main reason RJ kept advancing was cuz people felt sorry for him

Whoami

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Could it be that Simon has an issue with weight on all the contestants, but is using psychology on all of us.

Consider this...if he told Kimberly Locke or Rueben (or Frenchie, if she were still there) they needed to lose weight, when it's obvious they are overweight, there would be a public outcry of outrage. All of us who are overweight would step up to defend them. Simon would be slapped with a huge predjudice label. Many of us may just vote for them to show him up.

So, he picks on two who are built more "average" (rather than skinny model types). He picks two who he likes a bit, so if they get the sympathy vote, it's okay with him. Also, by picking on two who are built smaller than the likes of Kimberly L. and Rueben, he can manipulate us into thinking, "wow, if he thinks this of Vanessa/Kimberly C, then Rueben and Kimberly L must be really too fat for this business." Next time they perform, he has us paying more attention to their image, and he doens't have to mention it, thus eliminating the risk of them getting sympathy votes cause he thinks they're too fat.

Man, I don't know if I explained myself right in that or not.

Prisonerno6

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Am I the only one who sees Kimberly and Vanessa as roughly the same size? Ruben is much larger, yes, but I didn't see *that* much of a difference between the two women.

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, we are disagreeing again, Webkitty, LOL!

A male friend of mine made the comment last week that he thought Kimberly's pants were too tight for her shape. As for me, I didn't think the sheer top did a very good job hiding how poochy her tummy is. I also didn't really care for Ruben's outfit, although I thought the sentiment of the area code was nice, I still thought he looked like he just walked onstage after shopping at the local Walmart.

Bottom line, it's all perception. We all notice and comment on different things.

Speaking of perception, Prisoner, I do think Kimberly has about 20-30 pounds on Vanessa. If you dressed them in each other's outfits, I think it would be more obvious. But that is my perception. Maybe if they end up side by side in the final 10 we will get a better idea.

Pamy and Whoami, I like your theories. Who knows? Could be!

BTW, guys, I think we are having selective memories about last year. Ejay and Ryan Starr both backtalked Simon when they were in the final ten. I'm pretty sure that AJ did too. Remember AJ? He's the one that looked like he belonged with the Backstreet Boys. So that is 4 (counting Justin) of the 10 right there.

I agree that criticism is part of the process and they look so much better when they handle it with class.

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
http://www.foxesonidol.com

has some really good recaps. Great articles with some wildcard predictions. If you have a spare half-hour, you should check it out. And just to show that I am a good sport about the Vanessa debate, one of the authors of a recap was behind Simon 100%! I bow out humbly. :)

Car54

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry, but I don't see a Simon conspiracy here. I think he says what crosses his mind at the moment. He is a human being.

I did not see last week but from what I heard, it was a much more exciting session with better competition, so he may have been more energized and not bored.

Last night he was bored...and this issue came to mind.

I also think that Vanessa made a concious choice to wear something provocative. Fat women are encouraged to wear black or navy...several posters in this thread have said the same thing. It sounds like Kim picked something more
"acceptable" and may have done better at not provoking a comment. A lot of big women rebel against this and pick bright colors or loud prints...just to show they don't care.

I am amazed at the comments I have read about Samantha's dress as well. That girl is a stick...her dress was cut so it clung to her stomache and people are commenting that she looks pregnant. Sheesh.


Vanessa made a choice to put herself out there...that was a risk...and she got smacked for it. Personally I thought she handled it with humor and I did not think Simon felt dissed at all.

<myself, I am a "good" girl. Just did a quick mental count, I have 11 black dresses and about 14 black jackets and sweaters.>

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I wear a lot of black, too, Car.

I have also decided that I am stubborn and argumentative and I now quit the boards in protest of myself, LOL! :)

Car54

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No, Adven is already scheduled for today...you will have to storm off tomorrow. One at a time or we will have way to many hugs going on.

Hermione69

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ppppppppffffffffttttttttt.

LOL! :)

Car54

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok...that pissed me off. I have dibs on Friday for my stalking off.