Archive through May 05, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: American Idol (FOX): Josh should do the right thing: Archive through May 05, 2003

Grooch

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 07:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Once again.....

Josh has not said that he has a thyroid problem. So I do not understand why it is kept being brought up.

I am not even a Josh fan, but I believe he is being bashed more than anyone else and for the wrong reasons.

Fabnsab

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 07:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Grooch, we're not saying that HE is using it as an excuse but since it has been batted around, there are some who are(i.e. the stylist) and a few of us are just dispelling the "excuse."

Grooch

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 08:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am not a Josh fan at all.

I love Kim L, Ruben and Clay (the top 3) I am still bitter (an over exagaration) that Rickey left so early.

But with that, all I have read from many boards is that Josh is only still here because of some type of conspiracy and because he is a Marine.

I hate to think that with Simon as a judge, he would allow any voting manipulation at all. I think the Ruben fans were complacent this week, and it will never happen again.

I do not understand all the anger.

Sadiesmom

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 08:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
NO, I agree with Grooch. First I believe the comments after being judged are rehearsed, some are just better actors than others, and I would not be surprised if some of the judges conversations with the contestants were rehearsed. SO I do not think Josh was doing anything other than reciting lines, which he may have contributed to earlier.

Secondly, I don't really care about his weight up or down it is his issue and should be dealt with by him. If they are keeping him from treatment, that I would care about. It does seem that this is a sick, sick group though, all kinds of diseases, perhaps it is the season.

The Marine thing is annoying, because there are a lot of misstatements about it and some people do think they are voting patriotically (Not quite people). Again, I don't think it is Josh. Now what the contestants may or may not control is their web sites. I really did not look at them until I could not sleep one night this week and I am quite shocked at the disparity of quantity and quality. I would like to know who is behind these sites and what is the contestants involvement.

That Josh Gracian conspiracy site, I don't know if that is a pro, anti or a joke, but I could just be dense. Wish someone would tell me.

Llkoolaid

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 08:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think Josh should step down at all. Obviously he had a strong fan base, so why should he step aside.

I think it is the country thing that is really keeping him in it. Lots of people love it, don't ask me why but I even have some members of my family afflicted with the country lovin disease. My mother was very happy that Josh bet Rueben. (yes I am disowning her). I know lots of people that are just thrilled that a country guy is doing so well. I make it a point not to be seen with these people in public but they do exist.

I also don't care that he is finding the weight that Kim is losing. It is sad to watch him gain about the same that she loses each week.

If you like country then you probably like Josh, they all sound about the same to me. I don't think he should step down, he should do the best he can and nothing less, for himself and his fan base until he is gone.

Marymc

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 08:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
well, i love country and don't love josh. call me crazy, but i prefer singers who can hit the correct notes. so many of these talent shows seem to reward style over substance. i'd rather see someone just stand there and hit their notes than dance and jump around and go off key.

also, when someone sings with that much TWANG and doesn't speak with a trace of it, it seems like a put-on.

am sure josh is a very nice man and loving father and husband, but i think he studied garth brooks a lil too closely. i hope, if he wants to continue his singing career that he gets a vocal coach that can help him hone his skills and find his own voice.

Crossfire

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 08:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sadiesmom: My crystal ball is in the shop, if you want to talk websites how about providing some links? You have two posts now, one yesterday at 8:18, and one today that come off as though you had been abducted by aliens or something.

Nimtu

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 09:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Crossfire!

Sadiesmom

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I feel like I would be better off being abducted by aliens. I posted the link earlier in this thread, well, no I didn't LOL. Please aliens take me.
Excuse is exhaustion. Well now I can't find the site, after have being there a few times yesterday.

Anyway, the site ad JOSH GRACIN in the title and the page appeared to be blank. if you highlighted the site, the word appeared. The topic, which is only fair as other contestws fans are doing it, is trying to recruit people to vote 50 times a night, with a special catagory for people who swear to vote the entire 2 hours. Then there is a whole recruit more people. I did not follow through to the link that might have said it was a joke, The really strange thinge was staring at the almost blank page.

Sadiesmom

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OK a positive story about one of the web site supporters (which of course makes wme feel very old and incompetant)

Marine Daughter Uses Web To Support "American Idol"

Great story, great kid.

Crossfire

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The blank page bit might have been part of the adduction. :)

Walker

Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 01:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lmao..ya'll are too funny

Sadiesmom

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OK, check out the Elites column on Josh. They think he is miserable as well. It is time to stop being so cruel to him and accept e is trapped in his own personal hell. I don't mind critiquing his ability, but some people have attacked his family (his wife probably hates it when he comes home???? How stupid is that remark heard at the office)

Josh's Torment, Kim's Last Stand

This could have been an interesting week. Whether Trenyce or Josh had made the final 4, this could have been a diverse group, more balanced and less of a car wreck than last season's final 4 turned out to be.

Instead, we have gone past a car wreck and gone straight off the cliff.

I have very mixed feelings about this "Ruben in the bottom 2 - the world is ending!!" scandal. For the first time I seriously considered the possibility of AI rigging results. The reactions from the judges seemed very rehearsed. Everyone has been predicting a Ruben/Clay final 2, and the idea had become a bit boring. The countdown was verging on perfunctory, not exciting. Now people will (or are supposed to) hope and pray and vote for a Ruben/Clay final 2. Kim isn't a big generator of attention like the guys, so AI may see this as their way of getting rid of her at final 4, since some of her votes and Trenyce's votes will likely go to Ruben as he is supposedly "in danger". Meanwhile, Josh is officially crowned the new Nikki and will probably last to at least final 3, meaning he will get most or all of the negative comment, the criticism, the controversy - everything that American Idol delights in.

When Ryan said "this isn't just a tv show, it's someone's career" I wanted to put my foot through the tv. First of all, am I supposed to believe that if Ruben had been eliminated, he wouldn't get a record contract? And why such a pious attitude when AI consistently manipulates fan bases into a state of frenzy? American Idol wants to have it both ways. They encourage Josh's fans to go crazy with voting, and then they cluck their tongues when they get what they asked for.

I have heard other columnists say that fans should wake up and realize voting is about the best singer, not the favorite singer. I agree, to a degree. Yet, this also goes both ways. Ruben's appeal has been more about gimmicks or trademarks than singing for a long time now. When people talk about him having a shaky night (which he has been having for a while now), they say things like, "it wasn't his best...but come on, it's Roooooben!" So no wonder Josh fans resent the double standard. On Tuesday night, Clay's Solitaire performance was a bit overwrought (don't stone me, please), and Kim's I Heard it Through the Grapevine was definitely not her best. But they both had fantastic performances in other parts of the evening. Trenyce had two of her best performances ever. Meanwhile, Ruben had one OK performance (Breaking Up is Hard to Do - marred by his grinning during a sad song) and one not-too-good performance at the start of the night. To be honest I didn't think Josh's first performance was any worse than Ruben's, so when Randy said that Josh was "pitchy" while he had lavished praise on the very pitchy Ruben, the double standard was glaring. Add to this Randy telling Ruben "this is why you're gonna win", Ruben's brother coming on the stage to predict him as the winner, and the lingering problem of the judges never, ever criticizing Ruben even as he has stagnated while others have markedly raised their games, and you have a huge backlash waiting to happen. So to me, if these results were true, they were less about not voting for the "best" performer than about realizing Ruben had been prematurely crowned king, directly slapping the other 4 finalists in the face. If I had chosen the bottom 2 for that night based on performance, I would have chosen Ruben and Josh, because I think they were the worst on that night. I see this less as a terrible injustice to Ruben than a wake-up call that, although the overpraise and hype has not been his fault, he has coasted long enough.
<snip>
Curious as to how Josh's fans were reacting, I went to a few of their boards. Instead of concern or mixed feelings, they were delighted at how Simon squirmed, and were looking forward to the pattern continuing week after week. They'd shown up Ruben, Simon, American Idol, etc. Many comments did not even mention Josh's demeanor or his feelings on being spared. Some of them barely mentioned him at all in favor of laughing at Simon or at the show. The focus was only on pushing to the next week no matter how Josh sounded, no matter how good the other finalists were. A few days later I found out that some of Josh's fans plan to beg all of their friends and family who don't watch to call and vote, to go around and tell people who hate Simon to vote for Josh, to pay people to vote for Josh. And as this went on and on, I began to wonder if some of these fans are even bothering to watch the show, if they are voting for him or for their own personal reasons. There's nothing wrong with identifying with a performer, but Josh is the one who is up there getting the scorn and the disdain. At some point, shouldn't his fans ask if it's worth the effort? Does he even want to BE up there anymore?
<snip>
That leaves Josh. Josh who will have his every word picked apart, who will be the subject of at best apathy and at worst hatred by a large percentage of the public and the viewership. Many of those who were voting for Josh may feel their job is done, may lose interest while waiting for an album, may find themselves worrying about other things as the patriotic fervor or the underdog factor begins to taper off. If he does manage to release an album, unless his fans are going to buy up 300 copies per person, he would probably not be considered a success. Even if he sells a fair amount, he will be judged and condemned. Look at all the flak Kelly has received, and she was a popular favorite. Josh is compared to Nikki, not Kelly, and no one should have to face what Nikki did.

more..... and back to painting.

Jimmer

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
WOW! What a post! Actually, we haven’t thought that Ruben has been that good for some time now. That’s not to say he isn’t a good singer and a very likeable stage personality. It’s just that Clay, Kimberley and Trenyce have in one way or another tried to elevate their performances. We listen to Ruben and then we comment that he wasn’t that great, at which point the judges heap praise all over him.

While he has never been a favourite of ours, Josh isn’t all that bad, if you like that style of singing. I was listening to Lonestar (?) on the radio today and Josh had done a perfect imitation of them. I just don’t know how he can go out there week after week and have the judges dump all over him.

Personally, I’d like to see Kimberley in the finals, preferably with Clay (though we still like Ruben).

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way (I couldn’t resist a Simon quote!).

Seamonkey

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I do agree that the production of this show has been way too heavy-handed, from excessive promotion of their hand-picked "wildcards" to their premature statements that someone had already won.

And I really think that they are slanting things toward having a male win this year and this latest stunt has pretty much doomed Kim.

Seamonkey

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd recommend going and reading the entire article.. it has lots to say..

Jimmer

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why do you think this has doomed Kim? I don't know .... don't you think that Kim may pick up votes simply by being the only female left? Please note that I don't mean this as an insult - I really think she is talented and has great potential

Crossfire

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It is an interesting read and has lots of good points, but it is a really patronizing piece in about ten different ways.

Texannie

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Very interesting read!

Seamonkey

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jimmer, I just think that Ruben and Clay already have huge fan bases and I've seen not a few people who really like Kim who say that now that they are worried about Ruben (or Clay) they will only vote for them, not Kim. Just a gut feeling and I'm not the only one to have that feeling. I'd be elated if I was wrong :)

Sadiesmom

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 12:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ALl I can say, because I am nosy and it is not always fun tpo post here when it is 3 am and you can't sleep.
The Clay people are amazingly mobilized. A number of the webmasters are college girls that do not know him but there is one very professional site that I am still curious about.
The Josh people are getting mobilized and are have the membership levels of 2 hour calls and the recruit people who don't watch the show to vote as the claymates already have. His sites are pasted with flags seals and other patriotic gear, claiming it is neccessary for patriotic individuals to have him win.
Ruben sites not that professional - where are his college contacts?
Kimberly sites, one looks pretty good, not found that many.
It may turn out that those 2 are at the bottom next week. It does not matter what anyone on the show wants, it is totally in the hands of the obssessed.
It is interesting to note that on many boards, the Kimberly, Rueben and Clay people are swearing that if their person is voted out, they will not backone of the others, but force poor Josh on us all in revenge. I think they will have a new way to vote next year. LOL

I just turned on this show one bored night, but I have been sucked into the nosiness about obssessive people on the internet. So I am obssessively tracking obssessive people LOL. I know, I am weird and the aliens were more fun than this tracking.

Does anyone know why so many of these amatuers have CDs out? I really did not watch in the beginning and have no idea of the rules. And I can say that if Justin was an example of the finishers last year, this year is probably better to my ears JMHO

Jimmer

Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 08:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't watch last year either and I honestly haven't been very impressed with Kelly's performances and less so with Justin the other night. From what I've read from other posts, Kelly was much better last year than she appears this year.

The obsession that so many people have with this show is fascinating. I can't see myself phoning in dozens of times. Having said that, we really enjoy the show and as obsessions go, this is certainly a harmless and entertaining one.

The producers really have a problem if "fans" start voting for the person they like the least as a form of revenge once their particular favorite is eliminated. Certainly a childish attitude that fortunately doesn't seem to be encouraged by many on this board.

Crazydog

Monday, May 05, 2003 - 06:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with you Seamonkey, I think the Joshua conspiracy has doomed Kim. It's too bad, because I think she deserves to win. Now she will probably be eliminated this week.

The reason why I think she is gone is because I think last week, a lot of people voted for her because they wanted to "save" her. They did, and Ruben ended up in the bottom two. Now everyone is freaking out and will be voting for Ruben. Clay has got a solid fan base to support him. People who vote for The Great Pretender will also vote in droves to keep him there.

Unfortunately, Kim gets the undeserved shaft. I know that I will be voting for her like crazy come Tuesday.

Fluff

Monday, May 05, 2003 - 07:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Jimmer, I totally agree. I have yet to phone in, and never will. I'm not into this show at all, I just find certain aspects of it interesting. This year is very boring compared to last year. But good grief, I didn't know people voted like that. It's no wonder that...

Tabbyking

Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
my daughter and i each make one phone call--last week my husband said he thought clay was good, and we called in once for my husband. (he was just passing through the family room and stopped when he heard 'mighty mouse' singing.) i don't think they should charge, but it's too bad they can't limit what comes from each phone line. that way, if they got 50 calls from one phone line, it would be a pretty fair guess to say, 'realistically, there aren't 50 people who share that phone number', so they shouldn't all count. i don't know how it could be regulated.
therefore, i am sticking with my weeks' old theory that none of our votes count at all, and simon and paula and randy are the only ones whose votes will count for the last 'man' standing.
having ruben in the bottom 2 was for 'shock' appeal and to get this show talked about as we come into the may sweeps. JMO