Archive through May 06, 2002
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Archive through May 06, 2002
Nashbag | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:31 am     The best part was when Kyle told Keri on the bus that he was worried about the furture of the rommates now that they have to spend more time together. He stated something to fact that, well now there would be controversy. Keri seemed astonished that he would think that. I just laughed and thought - he is so right! we will have to stay tuned... Also - i am really intrigued by clips from next week - they will cover 9/11. |
Squaredsc | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 12:47 pm     oh webkitty, i am not offended, just tired of having to feel like i have to explain certain things. and it is good that we dialogue about it, but it sometimes seems like its a me against you kind of thing. i don't know if i am explaining it right, sounds so logical in my head but different when writing it. i just thought that they got too defensive when he was stating his opinion but ironically they didn't get that way when he was saying that its the devils holiday and he isn't into that being the son of a preacher and all. i know its a fault in me to think that people should get some things right off the bat and they don't and i wonder why and realize that maybe some things have to be explained a little deeper?. i don't know, i have no idea how to explain it. |
Seamonkey | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 12:56 pm     Lots of assumptions here (like that Theo's group stayed in a hotel because he was sensitive to the roomates.. maybe, but maybe not. And he certainly has made gratuitious homophobic comments. But he's also shown caring and learning qualities. Like all of us, he isn't perfect and he isn't a villain. (and so with Aneesa, Tonya and all the others). Theo mostly shined in his work with the kids. In my cryptic giving of impressions, I used the phrase "race card", which is what I thought.. but I should have used different wording, since I know people are sensitive to that. My hope is that they will actually talk about this more. What I think we saw was a group who were just being thrown into the unknown.. the new assignment.. Theo didn't like the theme at all.. Aneesa was not happy about working with Tonya.. others were apprehensive about possible confrontations. Theo was expressing his feelings about the assignment and Keri was trying to assure him that she and Kyle, who were to create the skits, would run it by him. She threw out her first idea and I do think he overreacted.. might have been better to just agree to discuss it calmly, later (but then.. I realize human nature, certainly MY nature, is to immediately dismiss something that pushes my buttons and oh do I have buttons). So. I apologize for my blunt statement. But, I also tire of the assumption that I cannot possibly know anything about history.. for heaven's sake, there was a lynching in Indiana in the '40s.. (the 1940's) embarrassing as hell that it was in Marion, Indiana, where my parents were both born in 1914 and more shocking that still a hotbed of KKK. I certainly know what lynching is.. this isn't something like knowing about chicken and waffles. I also know that hanging is pretty universal and certainly people of every race/color/persuasion/ethnicity have been hung. I'm definitely going to have to watch this episode again. I hope they will follow up on this important theme, though it is clear that 9/11 will be a feature in the next episode. |
Webkitty | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 12:58 pm     I think the situation came up so suddenly and escalated so fast that there was confusion and exasperation all around. I didn't tape the episode to go back and look at it more carefully, but it is the impression I got. Theo was already brooding about being ~forced~ to work on a project that he didn't want to. It seemed to me that he was ripe for outburst at that point. I think the others were taken aback buy it as it was unexpected and rather "in your face" so to speak. I don't remember anyone "pushing" the hanging idea in the story, just wanted to know what the problem was? Theo became indignant, like they were supposed to KNOW that the very mention of hanging would set him off. I am not young like these kids are, I didn't see anything wrong with Kari's story idea, but if I had been in the van, I would have immediately seen it was a sensitive issue with him and said, ok, what would YOUR input be, Theo? (in a nice way) Age and experience, these kids don't have it, they will learn. |
Guinevere | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:13 pm     "Theo has been bending over backwards to be sensitive to other people in the house. He doesn't believe in homosexuality, but he has been trying to understand it." Is that like not believing in the Tooth Fairy? Sorry, I just have an issue with using the phrase "doesn't believe in" or "doesn't agree with" in relation to gays. It suggests that homosexuality is either something that might not really exist, or something that people choose. It exists, and if you have a "problem" with it, in my opinion, you are a bigot; just like someone who has a problem with African-Americans, with Jews, etc. End picayune rant over phrasing. But also, I can't agree that Theo has been necessarily "bending over backwards" - we haven't seen any bad behavior lately, but this is a man who expressed his views on gays ("that's disgusting" I think was the phrase) within earshot of Chris. Not too sensitive. "The point (for me) is that it bothered Theo - WHATEVER the reason. And THAT point was totally lost on the roommates. They were so busy telling him how he should or shouldn't be feeling, that they completely ignored the fact that it DID bother him." I agree, to a point. I thought both sides behaved badly. Theo did not express himself well and there is no excuse for him calling Kyle a or mocking him with "dude". The others did jump on him, though. I thought that once he expressed his discomfort with it, there should have been some discussion. He is part of the group and it should have been a group decision. That said... "i am not offended, just tired of having to feel like i have to explain certain things." squaredsc, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but I find this statement condescending. Like things always need to be explained to the ignorant white people. Do you think that you understand where Keri, Kyle, Tonya are coming from? Does it need to be explained to you? The fact is, Theo and the others are coming from different perspectives on this. As such, to some degree, I think there is no right or wrong - each person's experience can be said to validate their feelings. My problem with what happened is the way Theo expressed his feelings, and to some degree the fact that he expressed them at all. Even if it made him uncomfortable, I think he should have been able to make the delineation between hanging as a common historical method of execution and the specific experience of African-Americans who were lynched. It just struck me as very self-centered of Theo to bring it up. Or "African-American-centered", anyway. It's not that there's anything WRONG with that, per se. It's just that if he comes at every situation with such a narrow perspective, he's going to have trouble in the great big world, getting along with and relating to people who aren't just like him (straight black males). It's like if I were to go around relating everything to the horrific historical oppression that women have suffered. Some times it's relevant, but mostly, it's not. And it gets tiresome and boring to have to listen to. |
Julieboo | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:19 pm     Excellent post Guin! You expressed more of what I was thinking. |
Weinermr | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:54 pm     Guinevere, I have started several responses to your post, and have erased them all. I don't even know where to start. Suffice it to say that I agree with a small bit of what you had to say, and find the rest of it extremely disturbing. |
Guinevere | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:56 pm     Hm, I don't usually disturb people...if you feel inclined at some point, I'd be interested to know what disturbed you, and why. |
Grooch | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 03:04 pm     Guin, I suppose I did word it poorly when I said, "not believing in." But then again, maybe Theo does believe it is a choice. I don't know, off the top of my head exactly what he thinks about homosexuality, other than he doesn't like it. I'll try to remember not to use that phrase again. Yes, I agree he is a bigot about it, but I am an optimist and I believe that living in the house is a good experience for Theo & Tonya and that they realize homosexuality is no big deal and get over their fears. I think their problem is that they have never been exposed to it. And yes, they haven't shown his bad behavior lately and he did say derogatory remarks at first. I am still being optimistic that there isn't anything for MTV to show. That he hasn't been doing or saying horrible things. That he is more sensitive to Chris's feelings. I guess I come out defending Theo because he seems to be getting dumped on a lot. He is far from perfect but he is basically a good person and I do see him trying to understand and learn. And he is in an enviroment to learn. I also like Tonya, even though she can drive me crazy at times too. It's not because of what opinions they hold, but they are the 2 that MTV seems to be showing the most that have to deal with their beliefs. And it is interesting to watch people's thought processes. |
Guinevere | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 03:57 pm     Grooch, there are things I like about Theo. He appears to have been the best with the kids, from what we've seen. Actually, as I was watching the show last night I was thinking we've really seen the better part of him for a while. Then he had to ruin it at the end of the show! (Not so much by bringing up his views, which is his right even if I disagree with them, but the way he did it.) Overall, the Chicago cast is right up there with Hawaii in terms of having a lot of people who are really irritating to me. Aneesa is by far my least favorite because she seems both totally self-absorbed, like Cara and Kyle, but unlike C&K she also has a real mean streak. I see Theo get picked on, but also Tonya, Aneesa, Cara and Kyle (Kyle seems to be particularly hated over at TWoP). Only Keri and Chris seem to avoid much ire. But I know what it is to feel compelled to defend these people. Hey, I was a Nicole BB2 fan! |
Julieboo | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 04:05 pm     I, too, like certain qualities of Theo's. I really like the way he cares about the kids, especially Nelson. I also agree with Guinevere in that he was in the wrong in the van. He is entitled to his opinions and feelings, but (imo) he was getting ridiculous. He called Kyle a beetch. He wouldn't listen to what the others were saying, and you know none of them had the intention of being ignorant to him or racist about hanging/lynching. And BTW I am/have been fans of many underdogs, Team Guido, Blake & Paige, Richard, John, Will (BB2)etc... |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 04:48 pm     He had an emotional reaction he couldn't control. It happens to the best of us. Of course this being tv, they only showed the most heated part of the issue, not resolution or talking it out afterwards. |
Grooch | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 05:30 pm     Guin, I remember you defending Nicole in BB2. I tried to too. Maybe this thread is good practice for BB3. Can you imagine if they had 24 hour live feeds with this group? The boards would be insane. You all have some good points. I was defending Theo about the Halloween story line. For the life of me, I can't remember what he was upset about and made him go off before hand. I will definitely have to watch this episode again. Like OI said, he had an emotional outburst and lost control. From the little they show us, I have a feeling he was already frustrated with what their new job is, and so were a few other people. I think Kerri handled it the best by saying that she would pass any story lines past him to see if he had any problems with it (or for approval or something like that.) But I guess the ball was already rolling. It is a shame that they had to show him in such a bad light after showing how good he was being with the kids. But the next episode is the 9/11 one, so I guess they had to put it in this one. Either it will affect something in a future show, or it will be completely forgotten about (like Tonya's stones.) Next week's episode is going to be very difficult to watch. |
Weinermr | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 06:14 pm     By the way Guin - I always liked Nicole too - I may not have been very vocal about it - but I was rooting for her. The 9/11 episode WILL be tough to watch for sure. |
Serate | Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:27 am     Race and everything else aside, this story "play" is supposed to be for kids isn't it? Because if it is for kids then I dont think it's the best idea that they could come up with. You can do scary for kids and not get so....I dunno what I'm trying to say. |
Serate | Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:27 am     I'm sorry I'll go back to just lurking. |
Grooch | Friday, May 03, 2002 - 08:37 am     Serate, I agree with you. When I heard the story I thought it was a little bit to adult and gruesome for kids. |
Guinevere | Friday, May 03, 2002 - 12:01 pm     I'm not clear on whether it's for kids or not - someone said somewhere that it was more of a general production that would be attended by all ages. Even if the gruesomeness level is appropriate, it still seems a little too serious and heavy for Halloween, which is supposed to be scary but not depressing! |
Nashbag | Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:34 pm     They stated that the production would be held in Daley Plaza - this is a common "venue" for events open to the public. In the summer time they have concerts and such at lunch hour. Still - the story did seem kind of adult themed to be right out in a public square. I have a question about this RW though. it only started bugging me when kyle got in chris' face as to why he wont go out with them etc. It seems to me that mtv is a bit negligent to put anyone on the show that is recovering from anything (be it a medical problem/kideny stones, or alchohol &/or drugs) I know they could say that these people WANT to be on the show...But of course they do! From what i know about recovery you are supposed to keep youreslf away from certain things/behaviors for at least a year. Isn't mtv setting these people up for a fall (maybe that is what they want) you would think after Ruthie (HI/RW) they would be careful to just say no to bringing on someone no matter how much drama there could be. ESPECIALLY if they are aware that he is trying to get sober. Unlike Keri who does not seem to think she has a problem, we can lay back and watch her do her thing with the others (they are not showing her to be as boozie as Cara - or maybe she just handles it better) I cannot believe that is Chris has a sponsor that they would be encouraging of him being on the show. As for him not wanting to hang around with them while they get plastered, he probably just does not want to SEE them getting themselves into a place where he has been - he is literally watching them go down a path he has gone already -and he knows by now that most of them do not have his conviction to recognize the problem. Kyle is an idiot. that's all - i just wondered if anybody else has pondered this. |
Seamonkey | Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 04:24 pm     The plays are to be in a story "tent". I flipped onto MTV early today and it was on that episode, right before the end where they went to find out what the new job was. Theo was upset that it was halloween. When they got in the van he was talking about that and Keri said they would get his approval on the skits. Then she ran by them the first idea she had.. Irish girl comes to US to work for a wealthy man who rapes her, she's pregnant, can't be executed until after the baby is born and then she is hung. (now.. I suspect this story would have been changed later since it really has nothing to to with halloween and so on). Anyway Theo reacted to the hanging, asked if she could die in a different way, the discussion escalated.. it didn't seem to be emotional right away with him.. he got more emotional when challenged by some of the others. Keri said they could stress that this was way before slavery and was a white Irish girl, etc.. Theo called Kyle "b*tch several times and then "dude", but the "dude" was basically meaning "b*tch" from the tone of voice.. Anyway.. seeing it again, I think they will work it out and of course I wonder what the halloween celebration was like in Chicago last year, since after 9/11 many "gatherings" were modified or cancelled and also there wasn't as much desire to "spook" or "scare" children. I'm sure Chicago, having the tallest building, felt especially vulnerable. |
Lobster | Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 06:25 pm     I agree that Keri's story seems inappropriate for children. I don't think she had a chance to finish it though, before Theo expressed his feelings about the hanging. I think she may have been going to continue on to say that the woman then haunted the man's family or something. I felt at first that Theo was overreacting and that lots of people have been hanged over time, not just black people. But, then I thought about it, and the difference is that witches were hanged for being witches. Murderers were hanged for being murderers. Black people were hanged for being black. Now I see where he was coming from. I still don't like his approach, but I understand. |
Ocean_Islands | Monday, May 06, 2002 - 04:54 am     Kyle isn't an idiot. He just doesn't know about some things which is totally normal. He is open to learning which is why he accompanied Chris to AA which I thought was a very open thing to do. Theo has several reactions going on, because he also said that Halloween was the devil's holiday. |
Julieboo | Monday, May 06, 2002 - 09:06 am     I don't think Kyle is an idiot either. He still is fairly young, remember. But I do think he tries to be very open minded about things. I think people shouldn't dwell (or think too deeply) so much on certain things. (oops, look at me doing the exact opposite here!) Like Halloween, for the most part, is just a fun holiday. For little kids and for older kids and adults. I don't think many people would celebrate it if everyone really thought it were the devil's holiday. I don't think schools and the general public would do that. There are plenty of haunted houses with lots of gorey stuff. But some teens love that sort of stuff. For me, halloween is a cute and innocent fun time. I put a cute little bumblebee or elephant or clown halloween costume on my son and we go to a few neighbor's houses and get some candy. We take pictures and that's about it. I do not celebrate the devil and I doubt that most people do. In Chicago (my town) as I bet everywhere, Halloween was toned down quite a but last year after 9-11. I also bet the by the next RW episode, 9-11 will be making everyone forget about the Halloween/hanging arguement. Just like Grooch said, it will be forgotten just like Tonya's stones... |
Seamonkey | Monday, May 06, 2002 - 06:03 pm     I agree about things changing immensely with 9/11. |
Angelnikki | Monday, May 06, 2002 - 07:08 pm     it will be hard to watch that episode tomorrow night. i honestly didnt think the show was taped that long ago. |
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