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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 4:12 pm
This is the area for us to discuss Chapter 1 of the Hobbit - An Unexpected Party beginning on March 1st.
This painting of Hobbiton by Tolkien showing The Hill and Bag End at the top, appeared as frontispiece to the second English impression of the Hobbit in 1937, and in the first American edition, 1938. It was reproduced in The J. R. R. Tolkien Calendars 1973 and 1974, and in The HobbitCalendar 1976.
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Hippyt
Member
09-10-2001
| Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 4:17 pm
I need to get looking for the copy we have here somwhere!
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Tashakinz
Member
11-13-2002
| Friday, February 27, 2004 - 2:52 pm
I'd better start digging through the bookcase. I know it's in there somewhere....
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Wargod
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 3:08 am
A little early, but I wanted to post after reading so I don't lose what I'm thinking, lol. Poor Bilbo! The unwilling hero, lol. Sitting home, minding his own business and having his home invaded by Gandalf and the dwarves. Why does Gandalf chose him? Does he know that Bilbo is the most likely hobbit to go along for the adventure, or has he seen something we haven't learned about yet?
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 11:29 am
Timeline. Pre-story history. 2890 – Bilbo Baggins born September 22 2920 - Thain Gerontius "The Old" Took died at age 130. Last appearance of Gandalf in the Shire until 2941. Bilbo is 30 years old. (Hobbits reach maturity at age 33 – the equivalent of our 21 I would guess.) 2926 – Bungo Baggins died. 2934 – Belladonna Took Baggins died. As our story begins: 2941 - April 25 – Gandalf visits Bilbo at Bag End. April 26 – Wednesday. The Unexpected Party.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 11:57 am
Pictures link for this chapter: Torania’s Tolkien Page
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Hippyt
Member
09-10-2001
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 1:39 pm
OK,Hubby is buying me a copy this afternoon. I never found the old copy. I'll have time to read it tomorrow afternoon.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 2:23 pm
Yeah for hubby!
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Hippyt
Member
09-10-2001
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 3:09 pm
He's only being helpful cause he wants to read it again.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 9:33 pm
I feel sorry for him, too. They certainly take advantage of his hospitality. I think Gandalf chose him because of his Tookish ancestry. The Tooks were well known adventurers. It's also possible Gandolf saw something ahead of time.
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Secretsmile
Member
08-19-2002
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 9:34 pm
So, I'm thinking that Gandalf chooses Bilbo because he knew his mother's family. Knew that Bilbo would be the type needed on this adventure because he knew more about what this hobbit was made of, than the hobbit knew about himself.
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Spygirl
Member
04-23-2001
| Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 10:29 pm
So far so good! I'm through the first chapter and into the second. I have to get used to the rhythm and style of Tolkien's writing since it is so different from what I typically read. It isn't hard to follow, but knowing that it is a fairy tale story written for children helps to put into perspective some of the quirkiness (I have an example from the second chapter that I'll share in there). BTW, how many chapters are we reading this week?
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 12:56 am
Spy, don't read more than 4 chapters for right now. My thoughts on why Gandalf picked Bilbo: Gandalf knew Bilbo when he was a youngster. Bilbo's father was a Baggins, but his mother was a Took - a hobbit family known to have an adventurous temperment. Tolkien tells us that Bilbo's mother Belladonna Took Baggins didn't have any adventures after she married Bungo, but I have to wonder what kind of adventures she had before she married him. Her father Thain Gerontius "The Old" Took considered Gandalf a friend. I think when Gandalf sees Bilbo he remembers the young hobbit who took (Took ) such delight in Gandalf's fireworks and recognized that underneath the proper respectable Baggins lived the heart of a Took. He specifically recalls Bilbo as the son of Belladonna Took. Interesting note: When Bilbo is remembering Gandalf telling “tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants and the rescue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows’ sons”, I could not help thinking that Bilbo, Frodo and Aragorn are all the son’s of widows, as was Tolkien himself. You can really see that he is writing this as story told to children in the 4th paragraph of this chapter when he breaks to explain what a hobbit is, as if in answer to a questioning child.
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 8:50 pm
I'm half way through the first chapter and find that I haven't changed since I read this book many years ago.. I remember then, and have the same feeling now, that I wouldn't be letting any of that lot into my house
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 10:57 pm
LOL Seamonkey. Bilbo is much nicer than I would be under similar circumstances. I would have stopped answering the door. Hobbit hospitality I guess.
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Wargod
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, February 29, 2004 - 11:00 pm
LOL, them putting in breakfast orders would have pushed me over the edge! Knocking on the door and having tea and snacks is one thing, telling me what they expect for breakfast is quite another!
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Monday, March 01, 2004 - 3:17 pm
The dwarf Gloin, whose insult to Bilbo, "He looks more like a grocer than a burglar!" is the father of Gimli from LOTR fame. Also present here is Balin whose sad fate in Moria we learn about in LOTR. Getting to know Balin through his adventures with Bilbo makes those chapters in LOTR even more sorrowful.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Monday, March 01, 2004 - 4:07 pm
Further thoughts on reading this chapter: When Gandalf hands the key to the secret door to Thorin he tells him to "Keep it safe!" It made me think of Gandalf in the movie telling Frodo to do the same with the ring "Keep it safe! Keep it secret!" Bilbo is a bachelor and yet he had enough food in his pantry to feed 13 dwarves and a very large wizard. There were also enough hooks in the hallway for 13 dwarf cloaks/hoods. Timeline note from the Annotated edition: Thorin's father Thrain was imprisoned in the dungeons of the Necromancer in 2845. Gandalf entered and received from Thorin the map and key in 2850, 91 years before the Unexpected Party. The Necromancer mentioned here is a minor side character in The Hobbit, but holds a much larger role in the LOTR. You will notice that I use the same plural for dwarf that Tolkien used = dwarves. When he submitted the original manuscript to his publishers the editors told him that according to the Oxford English Dictionary the correct plural for dwarf is dwarfs. As legend has it, Tolkien rebutted that he had written the Oxford English Dictionary. (He was one of many contributors to the OED) It was probably never a good idea to get into a battle of words with Tolkien.
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Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 11:17 am
"The dwarf Gloin, whose insult to Bilbo, "He looks more like a grocer than a burglar!" is the father of Gimli from LOTR fame." Thank you for sharing that! I didn't know. And it is also one of my favorite lines in the first chapter because I can totally picture Bilbo as this chubby little grocer. I loved how he overheard that and rose to the challenge! I also think that Gandalf knew Bilbo had some Took in him as well and that is why he chose him. Reiki, does Gandalf have any precognitive abilities? One thing I found interesting is that in Thomas Wright's Dictionary of Obsolete and Provincial English, a "bilbo" is Spanish for sword. I have the Annotated Hobbit and it mentions that. There is no proof that is where Tolkien got the name from, but I think it is possible given the possible symbolism of the name (that will be more apparent later.)
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 1:17 pm
I've been trying to think of an easy way to explain who and what Gandalf is. Without getting into the entire history of Middle Earth. It's kind of complicated. I don't think that Gandalf himself had any pre-knowledge of events. I think he was guided by a higher power. Whether you believe that those higher powers helped to shape events or not is I guess a matter of faith. Tolkien himself was a very religious man. His guardian was a priest.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 5:23 pm
Here is the history of Middle Earth in brief: Eru (Illuvatar), the One, created the Ainur in the void. With Eru the Ainur created a great music that filled the void and created the world, Arda. The music tells the history of Arda so there is much that will happen that is known to the Ainur for they had a part in its making. Some of the Ainur descended into Arda to guide and order its growth. The 15 most powerful Ainur to descend became the Valar, the Powers of Arda. One of the smartest and most powerful of the Ainur to descend was Melkor. During the music he had made discordant notes and this discord came with him into Arda and he became the first dark lord. Many lesser Ainur accompanied the Valar into Arda and are called Maiar. The Ainur who descended into Arda did so before the end of the music, so they have no knowledge of the end of world. There were many battles in Arda between the Valar and Melkor. Everything the Valar built up, Melkor destroyed. The Valar eventually took refuge in Valinor across the great sea from Middle Earth. Melkor built a great fortress in Middle Earth with the Maiar who followed him, including some Balrogs and Sauron. Much of the history of this time and of the First and Second Ages of Middle Earth are told in the Silmarillion. The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings deals with the Third Age. During the Third Age, the Valar sent 5 Maiar into Middle Earth to aid Elves and Men. The Elves called these men Istari, Wise Ones. Men called them Wizards. They were called Curumo (Saruman the White), Olorin (Gandalf the Grey), Aiwendil (Radagast the Brown), and Alatar and Pallando the Blue (these last two journey east and do not figure into any of Tolkien's stories). The Istari were sent to guide and aide, but they couldn't make Elves and Men overthrow Sauron and they could not do so themselves. Using a Star Trek term, the wizards had a prime directive to follow.
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Ocean_islands
Member
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 7:01 pm
Well, here I am, late to the party as usual. So I shall add my bit to the intimidating history above. This of course as you might or might not know is a frightfully busy time of year for me, so I'll count my blessings where I can get them for a moment to read. That said, I've always liked the contrast between this book and LOTR. I don't want to say it is childlike because these people are not children. But it does ignore the whole bit about evil and all, which is a bit refreshing. Who is the Necromancer? Is that an early reference to Sauron or someone else? I know in this book JRRT is defining his world, so it doesn't bother me if it is Sauron, I just thought someone might know.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 7:27 pm
You are right on time Ocean. Yes, Ocean the Necromancer is an early hint of Sauron. I'm not sure that Tolkien intended him to be at the time he wrote The Hobbit. I think he was just supposed to be a diversion for Gandalf. But it fit in well as backstory for the LOTR. Its not surprising that the larger history he had started that would become The Silmarillion crept into The Hobbit. It even seeped into the letters Tolkien left every Christmas for his children. He wrote as Father Christmas from the North Pole and there were recurring characters such as the Polar Bear, a gnome (elf) named Elbereth (a name he used for one of the Valar), and goblin like creatures. These letters have been published as "The Father Christmas Letters" and would make a great Tolkien starting place for anyone too young for The Hobbit. Good read-along book too.
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