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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Monday, March 01, 2004 - 6:16 pm
This is the area for the discussion of Chapter 4 of The Hobbit, Over Hill and Under Hill:
The Mountain Path by J.R.R. Tolkien Timeline for this chapter: June 4 – They ford the Bruinen and reach Rivendell at dusk 1 Lithe – Midsummer’s eve. Elrond discovers the moon-letters on Thror’s map. MidYear’s Day – The company leaves Rivendell The Shire Calendar The calendar used in the Shire included twelve equal months of thirty days each, plus a festival at each solstice: the two days of Yule around new-year's night, and the two summer-days of Lithe before and after the midyear feast-day upon the summer solstice. Note that neither Midyear's Day nor the Overlithe (which followed it on leap years) belonged to any day of the week; 1 Lithe fell at the end of one week, and the next week did not start until 2 Lithe when the Midyear festival ended. Thus neither Midyear's day nor the Overlithe have their own squares on the calendar to the right, but share space with the Lithedays. Not counting the Midyear and Overlithe as days of the week kept the weeks perpetually synchronized with the year — any given date always fell on the same day of the week. (So the calendar shown here could almost be used every year, except that the Overlithe occurs only on leap years.) This innovation, known as Shire-reform, was peculiar to Hobbits, and made their week drift relative to those of Men in Middle-Earth. Picture link for this chapter
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 6:03 pm
Here again in a mention of the dwarves battle at Moria. We also learn that there is such a thing as a stone-giant, but they are never mentioned again. Just when you think things are miserable enough with the wet and cold, Bilbo and the dwarves are captured by goblins! Singing goblins! I think, but am not sure, that Tolkien used goblins in the Hobbit, but called the same beings Orcs in the LOTR. It could also be that goblins are a smaller form of Orc. One of my problems with the Fellowship of the Ring movie was that I thought the goblin orcs who swarm down the walls in Moria were much smaller creatures than these brutes in the Hobbit. Some of the earlier stories of middle earth suggest that goblins/orcs came into being when Morgorth the Dark Lord corrupted and twisted some dark elves and bred them for evil. Elves are immortal so I wonder if orcs are immortal too and this is how the Great Goblin is able to recognize Orcist. He's seen it before. Gandalf has a wand which he uses to save the day. I think it's interest that by the LOTR his wand has become a staff. LOTR note: When Gandalf tells Frodo to leave the Shire he tells him to leave the name Baggins behind. Frodo travels to Bree as Mr. Underhill.
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Spygirl
Member
04-23-2001
| Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 9:51 pm
Reiki, you are doing a wonderful job of enhancing this reading experience for me! It is hard for me to think of interesting comments about what I'm reading, but I am definitely enjoying the book and your comments. It adds such richness to the story! When I got to the goblins, I pictured them as the Orcs in the LOTR movie. After having read 4 chapters now, I can see where I would have gotten a different view of the dwarves for sure. I would have pictured more like Leprechauns or something...with pointy hats and shoes. Funny, huh?
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 8:50 pm
Spy, I think I read somewhere that Tolkien loathed the Disney dwarves. One of the reasons he was originally resistant to having a film version made of the books was a fear of the Disneyizing of it. It is one of the positives of the film that they portrayed hobbits, dwarves, elves in a way I would like to think Tolkien would have approved.
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Wargod
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:26 am
The Disney dwarves were cute cuddley though, lol. Much different than the sword and axe wielding dwarves we come to know in Middle Earth. Our poor company of heros is once again hit with troubled times. Horrible weather, being kidnapped yet again, losing their provisions and ponies! And just when they escape and beat back the goblins, they manage to get caught again. They just aren't catching a break.
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Reiki
Member
08-12-2000
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:58 am
Someone mentioned once that the chapters of this story are like those old serial movies. In each chapter our heros (I like that phrase War!) have to do battle with the bad guys of the week. Tolkien also uses those type of cliff-hanger chapter endings. Makes you want to read ahead to find out what happens.
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Wargod
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 12:10 pm
Yup. I keep reading ahead, not seperating chapters too, which is causing everything to run together, lol. After I read four or five chapters, I have to go back and figure out what happened in what chapter, LOL. I won't settle down until I finish the whole book and find out what the heck happens! How does Bilbo and the dwarves get out of this mess? What will happen to them next? (Ok, so I know the answer already by reading ahead, but that's not for here, lol.)
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:33 pm
I agree about the cliffhangers. When my dad first read this book to me as a bedtime story, he'd stop at an exciting point and I'd be in agony waiting to find out what happened next! I think that was his way of making sure I 'd go to bed without a fuss the following night! (Of course it did nothing for lulling me to sleep - I'd be awake for hours re-telling the story to myself and imagining what might happen, lol.) Those poor poor ponies! And somehow the thought of singing (or was it croaking?) goblins makes them seem even more menacing to me. It's like when the Grinch smiles - he looks way scarier than he does with his usual sullen expression.
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Ocean_islands
Member
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 8:07 pm
It seems like in this chapter the story develops a narrative flow that really starts to move along, whereas right in the beginning it was bit clunky. I never noticed that Gandalf had a wand instead of a staff, and when I was a kid I always wondered what the difference between a goblin and an orc was. I'm still not sure I know, but there probably is no difference. I meant to say before that the road to Rivendell doesn't seem very long, and there is no mention of Bree on the way, which is right between Rivendell and Hobbiton if I am not mistaken. Also, the mountains here seem much more foreboding than they did in the movie or in LOTR for that matter.
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