TVCH FORUMS HOME . JOIN . FAN CLUBS . ABOUT US . CONTACT . CHAT  
Bomis   Quick Links   TOPICS . TREE-VIEW . SEARCH . HELP! . NEWS . PROFILE
Archive through February 28, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Archives: Movies & Library 2003 -2004: Movies: May 2003 - April 2004: The Passion of the Christ: Archive through February 28, 2004 users admin

Author Message
Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 5:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
There is no way in the world that I would be able to watch this movie.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 5:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I know what you mean. My child told me that a couple of kids in his class are going to this movie with their parents. These are 12 year old kids!!! I said, no way in hell I would ever permit my kid to see this movie. What I find hard to understand is how parents complain about violent video games and violence in movies and TV and yet will subject their children to something so horrifying and graphic. It just escapes me totally.

Hippyt
Member

09-10-2001

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 6:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I saw a lady on the news last night who was taking her 11 year old daughter in the theatre. No way I would ever let a child watch this movie,can you imagine the nightmares?
I plan on watching it eventually. Took me two years to make myself watch Schindler's List. I probably won't be seeing this any time real soon.

Spygirl
Member

04-23-2001

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 6:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I know a couple who is taking their 14 and 16 year old to the see the movie. They are not letting their 12 year old go. She is upset about not being able to go, but they are adamant.

Ketchuplover
Member

08-30-2000

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 9:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Its a very good movie. Is it bloody? Yes,but not as gory as I expected.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 3:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sorry to say real life intruded and I was unable to see this movie yesterday. I'll post my impressions after I've had a chance to see it, maybe today (wait a minute, Survivor's tonight? Maybe I shoud go for the matinee).

Cablejockey
Member

12-27-2001

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 10:39 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I have been watching numerous stories on tv and in the papers about audience reaction. People are crying, moaning, throwing up, or applauding. It has a "everybody's getting into the act" feel to it. Poeple who are watching despite the gore because they feel they should experience Christ's suffering, should remember that they are not watching the real Christ, and not taking anything from the real Jesus here, but thousands and thousands of everyday people suffered this kind of punishment and worse for hundreds of years during Roman Times. They kept the Coliseum going for centuries on a flood of human and animal blood and death. The people in the stands loved watching hundreds of thousand suffer horribly---you just won't want to beleive what tortures they thought of to make the suffering entertaining for the massess.

Spunky
Member

10-08-2001

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 1:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Last night I went to see The Passion of the Christ and although I am a Roman I didn't feel offended, it was indeed like that and I found the movie very powerful indeed. So, it was gory, but it was a very violent act and I didn't find it too disturbing because I understood the reality of it. Gibson's interpretation is exactly as I was taught by the nuns in Italy and so I did not see it created such a controversy for me, it doesn't take a genius to understand that those 'ancient' Jews saw Jesus as a threat to their agenda (they're still waiting for their Messiah) and for the Romans he was just another statistic.
In the end, it's a matter of faith for many. For me I feel the scientific knowledge of what we are intrudes when I want to rationalize the reasons for his death and so I like to think of it as a wonderful story that has great moral value.
But for the true believers it's a must see movie, it will increase their faith tenfold.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 2:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just got back from the movie. I did not find the violence unbearable to watch, and I only looked away once (when they were setting his second arm to be nailed). As Spunky said, it was gory but realistic, which was the intention of this movie when it was made - to not sugarcoat the extent to which Jesus suffered. If you were raised on the New Testament at all (or even if you became familiar with it later), you pretty much know what's coming next and can pick and choose when to avert your eyes.

Frankly, the Roman soldiers they chose for the scourging are the overwhelmingly sadistic brutes, with nothing ventured to redeem them. Otherwise, they totally villainize no one person and no one group in this movie - there were acts of brutality, acts of kindness, and acts of compassion from Romans and Jews alike in this telling. It would have helped if the political situation in Jerusalem were explained a bit better to round out Caiaphus' point of view - Pontius Pilate's was explained adequately.

Ultimately, though - in watching the story unfold and the number of times Jesus was given the opportunity to say the right thing to save his life (and he did not need to lie to do that), it becomes clear that what is happening was preordained and predetermined - the personalities central to Jesus' ultimate crucifixion were simply the vessels who were chosen to carry out God's plan. It had to happen, and it had to happen in this way for us to write it down and remember it. At a number of points, Jesus could have said "I didn't say that; they did" and lived. He wouldn't.

Impressions of the film as a film: the photography is lush. The person who is cast as Mary, Mother of Jesus has the most compelling face I've seen on film in awhile. The man who plays Jesus absolutely inhabits the role. You never get the feeling that you're watching an actor in motion: from start to finish you really feel you're looking at Jesus. You forget you're reading subtitles very shortly after the film begins - the use of the Aramaic and Latin in the film is a masterstroke - no crappy mish-mosh of inappropriate accents to distract you (think "yonda lies da castle of my fadda, da prince" for counter-illustration). The score is both lush and completely understated, an integral character in the movie, but one that you're only vaguely aware of. In short, this entire picture feels like you've been transported 2,000 years and you're watching the real people involved in a real time in history.

My personal experience with the movie: I'm still exhausted with grief. I didn't cry during the movie, except they almost got me with a montage of Mary picking up and comforting her little boy when he fell with pictures of her trying to provide the same comfort to Jesus as he fell under the weight of the cross. I didn't relate so much to what he went through as I did with what Mary went through watching this happen to her son. I'm still feeling the kind of grief one feels when a loved one has died - because Jesus is so familiar and loved to Christians, I have to imagine my reaction is not unusual. The audience was very quiet and didn't fill the theater, but those who were there sat together rather than spread out. At the end, everyone sat in their seats trying to collect themselves and/or their thoughts while the credits rolled. No one ate popcorn during the movie, that's for sure. It was kind of like going to church.

I recommend this film for adults who are not extremely squeamish. I think the pretrial publicity has really braced the public for worse, so when the violence really gets rolling it's not quite as bad as you're prepared for (and you're grateful for that). As uncomfortable as the movie is, I feel the emotional experience of it has been well worth it.



Yankee_in_ca
Member

08-01-2000

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 2:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Goddessatlaw -- thanks for your review/report.

My mom and grandmother saw it yesterday, and my mom said the same thing you did about the violence/gore -- she said it was very very uncomfortable and certainly violent, but she didn't think it was as bad as everyone has been saying.

She said she probably wouldn't see it again, but she's glad she saw it.

Sage
Member

07-20-2000

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 3:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Goddess, thanks so much for your review of this film. I'm undecided on seeing it. My first instinct is to not watch it at all. I don't think I could handle it right now. Reading your review though, has been quite sobering for me, and has brought my mind back to where it should be.

I'm very aware of Christ's sufferings for all our sakes, and because I suffer with Him in my own life, and have my own grief to bear at this time, I feel that seeing a depiction of Him going through this would just be too much for me emotionally. I am however, so eternally grateful to God for saving us through Jesus' sufferings.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 3:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks, Sage - there's plenty of time to see this movie. I feel it's worth it, but it certainly is something that should be saved for a time when you can give yourself over to the experience rather than have it compound the grief that's already in your life. (((Sage))). I think you'll know when you're ready.

Alegria
Member

07-05-2002

Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 4:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Goddess, that is a wonderful review. It puts the movie in context and presents an intelligent & personal perspective. I have been reading the newspaper articles and keeping an open, but also wary, mind. Your post makes me want to see the movie. I'll skip the popcorn, too.

Thanks.

Bigd
Member

09-13-2001

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks GAL! I plan to see this movie at the 4pm showing in my town tomorrow. I hope that I am sufficiently prepared to deal with it.

When I was a very young adult, I went to a church service where a medical doctor was detailing the cruelty, and intolerable suffering and inhumane manner of death involved in crucifixion and it left a lasting impression on me. I hope that it will help me cope with the visual images I will now connect to those mental ones.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 2:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Thanks Alegria and Bigd - I'll be interested to hear your reports on the film. Yankee, are you going to see it? If so, I hope you check in and let us know what you thought.

Newman
Member

11-13-2003

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 3:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I plan on missing this movie. Too violent. Too much hype. I don't like Mel Gibson's politics. I could go on and on.

I like the subject, Jesus, but I don't need to watch 2 hours of violence. He died for our sins. I honestly do not understand what that means!

Mel could have focused on Jesus' teachings, but nooooooooooooooooo. He goes the violent route. Mr. Violence. Violence sells. Teaching of love and compassion is boring. Is that your message, Mr. Gibson??


Faerygdds
Member

08-29-2000

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 3:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Newman... I'm not even Christian and I can tell you that you are really missing the point!

I think one of the reasons Gibson made this film was the complacency of the common day Christian. I think he made this for people who don't understand what it meant for Him to die for your sins. Jesus didn't just "die" he suffered and was tortured. If you don't understand the complexity of the last 12 hours of Christ, then you really don't understand what Christianity is about. You said you like the subject -- Jesus. But are you a Christian??? (note, not an attack, but a query)

If you are, then I suggest you do go see this film. Not because it is bloody or gory -- those come with the package of the last 12 hours of Christ's life. But because even with all the teachings and miracles that were performed by Jesus, the most precious gift he ever gave to his children was through his crucifixtion. Its one thing to perform a miracle and feed a few people, but quite another to die to erase their sins!

If you don't understand that, then you cannot appreciate the wonderful gift He gave to you when He died on the cross for you. If you can't understand the amount of suffering he had to endure, then you can't understand the fortitude and love that he must have felt for his children to have been able to carry on through that kind of suffering!

I guess I could on and on... it seems that you would like to Bash Mel Gibson rather than discover the message he was trying to spread. Too bad.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 3:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Not that you want to hear this, Newman, but the overriding lesson in the movie is forgiveness. I found nothing in violence portrayed in the movie that I felt was gratuitous. In fact, I think what happened in the scourging could have been portrayed in a much more grisly fashion and still have been completely accurate. I'm having a difficult time reconciling the criticism of the violence of this movie from the same critics who provide rave reviews for things like Pulp Fiction - which was nothing but gratuitous violence and grisly scenes like Uma Thurman burbling blood from her mouth during an overdose and them sticking an adrenaline needle directly into her heart. This is high art. But portray the last hours of Jesus in a manner which even the harshest critics agree is accurate to the Gospels, and Mel Gibson gets critically condemned for it? Let's see, what could that be about?

For clarification, I would like to say I certainly have no problem with anyone who wishes not to see this film for whatever reason. I simply think it's patently unfair to reduce this film to "violence sells." Particularly when one has not seen it.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 3:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
People that rave about the movie for the most part talk about what it represents to them especially in terms of their faith and it helps to bring them closer to their faith. For those that do not believe in Jesus or are not observant, it comes across as a snuff film.

It just comes across to me as watching a movie of a man being tortured to death for hours. There were kids in my sons class who saw this movie and were talking about it in school today. They werent talking about any message they were talking about how you could see bone and skin flying. That is what the kids were talking about.

I appreciate and respect everyones religious views but I dont believe anyone died for me so it comes down to being just a movie. I dont think there is anything wrong with that view either.

Faerygdds
Member

08-29-2000

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 4:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I understand that Maris, and totally respect that. I am not Christian and do not believe that Jesus died for my sins either, BUT I used to be Christian, so I understand and respect those that do believe. That's why I was so alarmed at the statement of, "He died for our sins. I honestly do not understand what that means!"

To me that says that the author is Christian, but doesn't understand the basic beliefs of their faith -- thus my post.

I plan on seeing this movie tonight. I won't be seeing it for religious reasons (obviously), but I would like to see the perspective taken and frankly, what all the commotion is about.

Oh.. and Maris.. technically you can't call it a snuff film (I know you didn't, you said it comes across [to some] as one)... As far as I know the actor who played Christ did not actually die in the making of this movie. A snuff film is one in which the actor ACTUALLY dies, not portrays death.



Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 4:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Agreed, I actually took that description from the reviewer of New Yorker. He said he felt like he was watching a snuff film.

Scorpiomoon
Member

06-06-2002

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I love coming here and reading such intelligent, thoughtful posts. You guys rock.

And after reading this thread, I have to say, I'd rather wait until this film comes out on DVD and watch it at home.

Legalboxer
Member

11-17-2003

Friday, February 27, 2004 - 4:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
GAL Thank you for your post(s) and especially the "I simply think it's patently unfair to reduce this film to "violence sells." Particularly when one has not seen it."

I am one that has not seen it and thus can not comment about it- but those were my exact thoughts- that it is unfair for people to comment on something they have not seen

Bronxie
Member

07-29-2003

Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 7:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I saw the film Thursday. I would not recommend it to anyone who is disinterested in the subject. As a Catholic I found it not only powerful but
overwhelmed at how I had accepted His Passion and death without really feeling it. The minute by minute viewing portrayed the minute by minute suffering. It seemed endless. As tortuous as it was, I was always aware of what was still to come. It was like a slap in the face, realizing I had never imagined it in real time or depth. Goddess, your review was excellent.


Alegria
Member

07-05-2002

Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 9:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I will go during Lent. Maybe just before Palm Sunday. Years ago I read William F. Buckley's memoirs "Nearer My God". In it he included a chapter written by someone else. He explained this unusual decision by saying he felt compelled to because it was written by a woman, I think just a 'normal' woman (not a 'scholar') who had a vision or dream. When she woke up she wrote everything down. It was a minute-by-minute description of Jesus' suffering. Reading it was so compelling that Mr. Buckley was altered by the experience to the point that he included it as one of his pivotal life experiences. I felt the same way when I read that chapter. Perhaps this only happens for individuals who have already committed themselves to this particular walk in faith. It could be a similar situation for viewers of this movie.

I circle around God, around the primordial tower.
I've been circling for thousands of years
And I still don't know: am I a falcon,
a storm, or a great song?

RILKE, Book of Hours