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Neko
| Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 9:46 am
"That still only counts as one!" I loved this movie! It had it's funny parts, it had it's serious parts, it had everything!! And it wasn't much longer than the other too movies... We started at 9pm and were done and out at 12:30pm... I probably annoyed the heck out of my step-sister, because I sang along under my breath to Billy Boyd's "The Steward of Gondor" song. The only "problem" for me, and it wasn't really a problem at all, was the ending. It was soooo long. but then again, these were three very long movies and a very long trilogy come to end. I can't wait to see this again later this week!!
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Reiki
| Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 10:27 pm
The end of the book always seemed a bit anti-climatic too. Like Tolkien didn't really want it all to end. Of course in the book the Shire has changed dramatically from the one we see at the beginning of the book. Merry, Pippin, Sam (and to a lesser extent Frodo) have to lead a fight to restore the Shire. This solidifies them as future leaders of the community. Sam eventually becomes the Mayor of Hobbiton. I'm hoping that the dvd at least shows Faramir and Eowyn speaking to each other at some point. At least they got to stand next to each other at the ceremony. Did they ever make it clear that the white tree was reborn when Aragorn became king. I didn't expect to see him find the new sapling in the hills, but I don't think we ever saw that the tree was in bloom. Another reason I like the DVDs. I can watch scenes over and over to see what I missed the first time. I found the Shelob of my mind to be much more scary than the film one. Maybe I just have a scary imagination. LOL. I did love this movie. There were times I was crying a lot. Oh - the ship that Frodo, Bilbo, et all take is NOT the last ship to leave. There are at least 2 or 3 others. Legolas and other elves stay in Middle Earth for a very long time. He goes with Gimli to explore the Glittering Caves at Helm's Deep. Gimli in turn goes exploring Fangorn Forest with Legolas. Legolas and Gimli both take a ship to the West. Gimli is the first dwarf to have done so as far as we know. And much much much later Sam may have been allowed to take a ship. He was a ring bearer after all. Tolkien was vague about what happens to Sam. He leaves the books with his daughter and disappears.
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Ocean_Islands
| Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 5:05 am
They deemphasized the drama of the Shelob episode in order to heighten the drama later on; it's in the beginning of the movie, after all whereas it is the end of Book II. I missed the Shelob perspective which is in the book. The Houses of Healing was cut from the film, where Aragorn proves he is the king by healing both Faramir and Eowyn. Apparently it is going to be on the extended dvd.
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Tashakinz
| Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 8:24 am
Saw it last night and absolutely loved it - even if I am suffering from a lack of sleep today because we went to the 8:00 show.
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Neko
| Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 1:56 pm
I went to go see it again today.. Still just as good ats it was in the beginning. Reiki - At the scene where Aragorn is being crowned King of Gondor, they show a view looking out into the people. There you can see the White Tree in bloom.
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Yankee_In_Ca
| Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 3:02 pm
I've seen it twice already and think I might go see it again sometime soon. Haven't typed much in way of thoughts because I was traveling between 12/18 and yesterday, but it's been interesting to read everyone's comments here. One thing I will comment on regarding my initial comment about it being long. Let me clarify -- I don't think the movie is too long, but I DO still think that the "goodbye scenes" went on too long. Both times, I wish some of those longing looks and long hugs goodbye had been shortened just a bit... Up until that point in the movie, I barely even noticed that time had passed, but when it reached the "wrapping up" stage, I felt both times that it dragged a bit. I know others disagree, and that's ok. It's just my opinion Neko -- I noticed that about the tree too.
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Reiki
| Friday, January 02, 2004 - 1:36 am
A few people have expressed an interest in reading (or re-reading) these books following the completion of the movie trilogy. We thought it might be fun to read them together and for those of us who are familiar with the world of Middle Earth to share insights with those less familiar with it. We won't be starting our read-along/discussions until March and we will begin with The Hobbit and continue with the three books of the Lord of the Rings. This should give everyone interested enough time to purchase a copy of the books. I have set up a thread in the TVCH Book Club area in the Library - here: The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings book thread
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Midlifer
| Monday, January 05, 2004 - 8:31 am
I finally saw this over Winter Break and LOVED it! The endings (all of them) really made me teary. What a lovely way to end such a great trilogy. My daughter, who read the books, had one problem with the Aragorn-Liv Tyler thing. She said that that wasn't in the books. Said that Liv just wanted to play an elf. She still loved the movie, though.
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Spygirl
| Monday, January 05, 2004 - 8:49 am
Midlifer, if I understand correctly, it was in the books (according to what people have said in this thread and the TTT thread). It was located in the appendix of the final book, Return of the King. Tolkien did in fact write the story of Aragorn and Arwyn.
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Midlifer
| Monday, January 05, 2004 - 11:24 am
Well, I stand corrected. I'll let my DD know, but I do know that she read those books, cover to cover. Ah, well....sounds like she missed something.
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Reiki
| Monday, January 05, 2004 - 11:48 am
Arwen (or at least her name) did appear in the main text of the book, but only briefly. We do see her and Aragorn wed at the end of Return of the King (book).
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Hermione69
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 5:33 am
Never mind my question... Midlifer beat me to it! We work together and were talking about this yesterday and I was going to come in and ask the same thing about Arwen/Aragorn! I haven't read the trilogy myself, only The Hobbit. I haven't been in here in awhile because The Return of the King is not even going to be released in open caption until the end of January. After it is finally released, I will just have to keep checking the schedule to see when/if it is coming to my area. It will probably be February or March again before I get to see it, so I haven't been following the posts because I want to be "unspoiled." It really sucks that I have to wait this long. This is one of the very few things that make me feel "handicapped" by being Deaf. Still, I am thankful that OC movies exist. They didn't 10-20 years ago. 
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Kimmo
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 8:19 am
Also wanted to mention Arwen is at Rivendell in the first book, when the hobbits first come there. I think she's mentioned multiple times (as Evenstar, Arwen, Lady of Rivendell, etc). I think that her and Aragorn's love story is compared to that of ....Oh, well, Reiki will know who! Beren and Luthien? I think that is mentioned a couple of times in the books.
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Kimmo
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 8:28 am
To keep on the topic of the movie ....I saw it New Year's Eve with DH and really enjoyed it! But one of my favorite parts of the book is when Faramir and Eowyn get together, you could see they were "together" but I really enjoyed Eowyn's struggle to accept her femininity and power issues or whatever in the book. Denethor was even more psycho than I'd pictured from the book-- That was great, but wish they'd explained it more (how he felt doomed because of what he saw in his seeing stone, etc). I had wanted them to show how the white tree was "restored"-- Its blooming at the end was pretty much shown in passing. Oh well! I mean, that could have been highlighted with as much or better effect as the lighting of the beacons (which went on for so long I felt like I was in the middle of a long metaphorical AT&T ad). The last 20 minutes (after Frodo wakes up in Minas Tirith and is reunited with everyone) did go on, but that is how the book goes, very episodically, so I'm not sure how they could have worked around that. Of everything I least appreciated the first closing scene with Frodo waking up with the hysterical bed jumping and laughing in slo-mo....Everyone popping up in slo-mo, waving, then coming over to Frodo's bed to jump on it or chortle, in slo-mo...Then cuts back to Frodo's anguished yet joyfully disbelieving face. Agh! But then, I'm not an Elijah Wood fan. I hate slo-mo! Can't wait for the DVD to see the Houses of Healing sequence (where Faramir and Eowyn will also be featured, of course)! Good way to spend New Year's Eve
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Reiki
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 11:59 am
Kimmo, I couldn't remember if Arwen was physically in Rivendell in the book Fellowship of the Ring or if she was only mentioned and remembered or seen "off-screen". Will have to wait until I get to that part of the book in the read-along. The Lay of Luthien is the song that Strider is singing at the first nights camp in the movie Fellowship. This is almost directly from the book and I give a lot of credit to Viggo for insisting that it be included in the film and to Peter Jackson for doing so. The story of Beren and Luthien closely matches that of Aragorn and Arwen. Luthien also chose a mortal life. I think the way Elrond is depicted in the films is probably more how Luthien's father, Thingol, reacted. Elrond, having mortal ancestors himself, I think was more understanding of humans if not entirely happy to being parted from his daughter. The story of Luthien (an elf) and Beren (a heroic man) was one of Tolkien's favorites. He had his much loved wife's headstone inscribed "Luthien". Faramir and Eowyn were also one of my favorite parts of the book. Faramir must have been pretty special to move her away from her infactuation with Aragorn. I can remember reading the first time and how worried I was when crazy Denethor dragged Faramir to the pyre. Thank goodness for Pippin. I thought the beacon scene was a little long too. I felt - okay we get the point - after about the 3rd one. Beautiful travelogue of New Zealand, but lets move on with the story. The endings...I thought the editing was choppy. I know a few people in the theater around me thought the movie was over 3 times. The breaks between Mt. Doom - Frodo waking up in bed - Aragorn's crowning - Back in the Shire - The Grey Havens, were too severe. I think the screen goes black at one transition. People really started getting up. LOL. I too can't wait for the extended DVD. I hope the House of Healing includes the stuff about Aragorn asking for athelas and the healer going on and on about nothing and then claiming she knew he was the king because he used athelas for healing. We get to see the old Strider humor in that book scene and I loved it.
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Kimmo
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 3:37 pm
I admit, Reiki-- I thought Faramir was "dreamy" in the last book! When we first saw Faramir in the 2nd movie, I was a little disappointed in the casting, but I still really liked the filmic Faramir. Would have liked to have seen him woo Eowyn, though. When Aragorn tells Eowyn in the film, "You won't find what you're looking for here," or whatever-- Basically turning her down, I was disappointed that on film it looked like it was just an "I don't like you" thing, when it really was that Aragorn knew Eowyn wanted to prove herself and find her own glory, and that she couldn't find it by just being with Aragorn. Well, and of course he loved Arwen. The one part where I almost cried was the last scene between Theoden and Eowyn. Sniff!
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Reiki
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 4:04 pm
I cried just about every time Theodon or Eowyn or Faramir were on screen.
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Calamity
| Friday, January 09, 2004 - 4:56 pm
Oh Hermione69, just wanted to say I hope you get to see RotK sooner rather than later!! I don't know how the scheduling works for OC films...can you request your local movie house to reserve a copy in advance so they'll get it more quickly? Or is it completely up to the studio when/where the movies are sent?
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Kimmo
| Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:11 am
Going back to Reiki's posts...I can't remember if Arwen actually does anything in the books either, but I remember when the hobbits first came to Rivendell they see a pretty lady and go, "Oooh, who's that?" (obviously paraphrasing!) and someone explains it's Arwen. The beacons-- Not to stomp this topic into the ground, but I had been *expecting* them to just show the beacon lit at Minas Tirith and go right to Theoden seeing his beacon lit. So when we got to #3, I thought, "Oh, I didn't realize Rohan was so far away...Okay, Theoden's should be next." Then it just kept going on! Agh. At the end, they faded to black at least 2 times-- It seemed like they could have joined the scenes more with some voiceover or something. DH did almost get up twice! Ha. I had also wanted more detail on how respected and mature Merry, Pippin and Sam had become-- Maybe my memory is embellishing and I need to reread, but I felt they gained a lot more gravitas at the end, with the rehash of what they all did and what histories they recorded in the Red Book. I had hoped for more than just Frodo passing the book to Sam (with no explanation) and seeing Sam with his family, with mentions of his new job (trying not to spoil, even though the job thing was mentioned totally in passing). But then, with the Saruman/Wormtongue scenes cut out, how could it be explained that the hobbits became really respected in Hobbiton? The Shire really didn't know what was going on in the world and was only affected (in the book) by Saruman and Wormtongue coming to town. But including that would have made the movie too long. Oh well
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Reiki
| Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 1:08 pm
A&E will have a couple of Lord of the Ring's shows on tomorrow. Breakfast with the Arts - A&E January 11 8 AM ET/PT "The Lord of the Rings" Trilogy Examines the films that make up the Trilogy (The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King). Cast and crew discuss their involvement, familiarity with author J.R.R. Tolkien, and their approach to their craft. Interviews include director Peter Jackson, actors Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Billy Boyd, Dominic Monaghan, Ian McKellen, Viggo Mortensen, and Miranda Otto. Also, performances by pianist Piotr Andreszewski and violinist/composer/fiddler Mark O'Conner. TV G and Journey to Middle Earth: The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - A&E January 11 10 PM ET/PT A behind-the-scenes look at the sets, special effects, and people who made "The Lord of the Rings" the most popular movie trilogy of all time. Includes a trip to a pub with the Hobbit boys and interviews with director Peter Jackson and actors Viggo Mortensen, Ian McKellan, Miranda Otto, and Orlando Bloom. TV G Don't know if this is the same program repeated or two different programs.
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Sillycalimomma
| Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 1:16 pm
WOOOHOOOO!!Thanks for sharing this Reiki-I had no idea!!Looks good!
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Hermione69
| Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 8:35 pm
Warning, this post has little to do with LOTR! It answers Calamity's question to me. Most of you may wish to just skip this! Calamity, I have yet to figure out the pattern as to when and where the OC films come. I have written both the theater in my area that shows the films and the company that captions them and sends them around. The company wrote me back and from what they said, I think it is more up to the theater itself as to when they can/will fit it into their schedule. I live in Richmond, VA and very often movies will come to Fredericksburg, VA (an hour away from me) or Staunton (90-100 minutes away from me) that don't come to Richmond. That or the movies will come earlier to those places. I suspect that the theater in Richmond isn't as flexible because they don't make as much money with OC films. I bet there is a better turnout in Staunton and Fredericksburg. Staunton, for example, has a School for the Deaf and they seem to get a lot more OC films. I admit that there is a poor turnout for OC films in Richmond. The Deaf community in Richmond just doesn't seem that interested in OC films or are still not as aware of it. I know people are doing a better job getting the word out, but maybe it is still not reaching some people because we have a pretty big Deaf community. The turnout should really be better. If the turnout were better, maybe the theater would be more amenable to showing the OC films. Part of the problem is that when the OC film finally comes, it only comes for three days, so if that happens to be a bad period of time for you, oh well. Poof! It's gone. I'll tell you, if LOTR comes to Staunton or Fredericksburg and not Richmond, I will drive the 60-100 minute drive to see it! I'm told it will be well worth the trip! If anyone is inclined, the OC company is Insight Cinema and theater chain that shows the movies is Regal Cinemas Regal Shortpump 14 on 11650 West Broad Street, Richmond, VA 23233 is the theater that shows them in my area. Last year a few people made calls, wrote letters and sent emails to help try to get LOTR:TTT to Richmond. If anyone wants to do that again this year for ROTK, it would be greatly appreciated! I'm going to contact them again myself. Can't hurt, might help. 
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Calamity
| Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 2:35 pm
Thank you for explaining all that, Hermione69 . Re: Arwen & Aragorn…She appears only briefly in FotR (book). Frodo notices her while at Elrond’s table and later sees her standing with Aragorn. I don’t think she ever speaks but she does turn to look at Frodo which has something of an effect on him. I can’t recall her being in TTT (book) but in the main text of RotK, there’s a mention of Aragorn marrying her after he becomes King and she later tells Frodo something about how their fates have been intertwined (sorry to be vague but I don’t want to give anything away). Then in the appendix, there’s a short section about how Aragorn & Arwen meet, fall in love, and their life together after they are wed. It’s the only part of the appendices that I’ve read yet and it’s truly lovely and poignant. ****RotK Movie Spoilers**** I saw this again Monday night and actually enjoyed it even more this time. I was quite distracted and depressed when I first saw the movie nearly a month ago so it was impossible for me to really lose myself in the film then. Sigh. That seems so long ago . Anyway, I must stubbornly defend the beacon sequence - I thought it was awe-inspiring and not at all a drag on the film’s pace. Granted, I’m a pushover for soaring natural vistas and stirring symbolism but even so, I think it was a much more effective way to convey on screen the call for help than the book’s brief allusion to extinguished beacon fires and that red feather would have been. And it seemed particularly appropriate to have it be Aragorn be the one to spot the signal and race to ask for Théoden’s aid. Shrug. I don’t mean to argue the point, I just thought it was very moving - but I guess for others it was just an IMAX moment, lol! I don’t think the movie was perfect; there were some changes & omissions that disappointed me. I think they did a poor job explaining Denethor’s madness and Faramir, well, he’s merely a shadow of the character I loved in the book, although he’s certainly attractive. I know that some weren’t too enamored of Elijah Wood’s performance, but I thought he did a fantastic job during the sequence on Mount Doom. You could see on his face what torment Frodo was going through and when he finally succumbed to the Ring, the look in his eyes was chilling. Another performances that I didn’t fully appreciate the first time I saw the movie was Hugo Weaving’s as Elrond. The mixture of joy and sadness on his face as Arwen went to Aragorn was quite touching (reminded me of how Tolkien described him, with a face written with “the memory of many things both glad and sorrowful”). Of all the cast, I was most impressed by Ian McKellen (Gandalf), Sean Astin (Sam), and Bernard Hill (Théoden). But really, I loved them all (and that includes Gollum)! As to the choppy ending…it did bother me the first time but on this second viewing, I just felt as though I was saying goodbye to some old friends.
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Calamity
| Friday, January 16, 2004 - 4:21 pm
To correct a couple things in my previous posts: it's actually the Red Arrow that was sent when Gondor needed aid, not a red feather. (Actually it's a black-featherd arrow with a red-painted tip, so I wasn't completely wrong, lol). Oh, and I realized too late that I misspelled Strider's name. I wonder what other goofs I've made... I found one of my dad's Tolkien reference books and it says there are seven beacon-hills so, although I didn't count, I guess that IMAX moment was more like an IMAX minute for some .
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Kimmo
| Friday, January 16, 2004 - 4:26 pm
Wow, only seven hills were shown? It felt like 20 to me! Well, now I feel a little bad knowing the sequence was just another nice instance of being so faithful to the book. And I agree with you, Calamity, even though I find Elijah Wood annoying, his torment on Mount Doom was very palpable and I couldn't imagine anyone else potraying Frodo so well.
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Calamity
| Friday, January 16, 2004 - 4:44 pm
Oh good grief, there I am correcting past mistakes and I go and misspell "feathered". I'm not even going to try anymore, lol! Kimmo, 7...20...who's counting? I did notice there were at least 3 fades-to-black towards the end of the movie.
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Reiki
| Friday, January 16, 2004 - 5:10 pm
See now attention to book details like the beacon-hills (aka the New Zealand tourism ad) makes it harder to accept some of the changes made to character development for the sake of saving time. Like explaining the cause of Denethor's madness. It was beautiful cinematography, but it that could have been saved for the DVD, IMO.
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Kimmo
| Friday, January 16, 2004 - 6:26 pm
Reiki, I agree about character development...I didn't think Eowyn was portrayed as fully as she could have been. With Denethor I thought, why even include the part with Pippin and the palantir if we are not going to see more with Denethor other than being randomly crazy, prideful guy. I suppose the stone, in his case, just exaggerated the negative qualities Denethor already had, maybe that's why they didn't think it was necessary to show it on film. Calamity, I only finally noticed the misspelling of "feathered"-- And here I thought you were waxing poetic (like "feather'd")! 
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Yankee_In_Ca
| Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:23 pm
I saw ROTK today in the theatre for the 3rd time and... It's officially ENOUGH ... until the DVD comes out!!! Yankee
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Kimmo
| Monday, January 19, 2004 - 8:16 am
Okay, DH just got a Tolkien calendar for his shop out back and it has an illustration of Eowyn and Faramir together. Then there's a quote referring to their golden and raven hair mingling in the wind. It reminded me of how indignant I was that Faramir didn't have dark hair in the movie! I know, Aragorn had dark hair so there couldn't be two dark haired romantic/heroic interests in the same movie. Still, the film Faramir was okay.
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Calamity
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 3:10 pm
Kimmo: That will be my excuse from now on - "I didn't make a mistake with the spelling or grammar, I was just waxing poetic". Thanks! 
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Webkitty
Member
07-24-2001
| Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 4:00 pm
I finally got to see this before it left the big screen here! I have to agree with Calamity, I loved the beacon lighting scene. I didn't think it went on too long at all and it was a great visual. There were a few things that I could pick on ROTK, but I prefer to look at the overall Triogy and say that PJ did an outstanding job on an almost impossible task. He deserves the Oscar.
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