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Bronxie
| Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 6:08 am
This was a good one. Watching three superb actors (Sean Penn, Tim Robbins and Kevin Bacon) performing at their very best is a joy. The plot moves along nicely; a mystery in the midst of the individual, heart wrenching memories of the lead characters; along with a great supporting cast. I heard that Robbins would get an award for this, but Penn (whom I never liked) is my favorite for an Oscar.
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Pannie
| Monday, November 10, 2003 - 7:24 pm
I just saw this - yea, Bronxie, the acting was excellent! I appreciated the work of all 3 of those gents. I'm a Penn fan and went because I suspected he'd do a great job in this tough tale. I was not disappointed. Poor Dave and poor Katie! And what the heck was going on with Bacon's estranged wife? Do we need to see a prequel to figure that out? BTW, Laura Linney is definately an actor to keep a eye on too.
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Brenda1966
| Monday, November 17, 2003 - 11:18 am
** potential spoiler ** Saw this over the weekend. Wow, Penn is brilliant as usual. I wasn't prepared for how dark it would be -- anything happening to kids just gets me. Laura Linney's character at the end surprised me. Her "you did what you had to" speech really came out of left field. I didn't see anything prior that would have me think she was so cold hearted.
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Alegria
| Monday, November 17, 2003 - 7:17 pm
Hi Pannie, in answer to your question about Bacon's estranged wife... The movie never explains what the book does(it would have made the movie MUCH too long if they had explained the background of their problem). In the book the story is that his wife works in the theatre. She & the Kevin Bacon character met and fell in love, even though they were from 'different worlds'. His job is stressful and as the relationship progresses he feels alienated from her 'artistic' friends who have no concept of the raw and gritty world he spends most of his time in. Over time he pushes her away and she has an affair with someone in the theatre group she works with. A pregnancy results. He wants her to terminate. She leaves. The baby is born. Near the end of the relationship he had stopped communicating and after she leaves the tables are turned because she phones and says nothing and he talks and talks. The movie shows that part without explaining the background. It ends the same way in the book as the movie (without giving away what happend to those who have not seen it). Laura Linney's character was sister to the Savage brothers and she is a very tough cookie. The book goes into a lot more detail about their courtship & marriage as well.
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Newman
| Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 9:54 pm
Alegria, Thanks for the deep background. Haven't read the book and probably won't although a friend of mine is related to the author, which is why I saw the movie. Good movie. Shouldn't we assume on sites like this that people have seen the movie and want to talk about it? I would assume "potential spoiler" could be put in front of every post. Am I wrong here? Strong movie. Potential oscar nominee I would assume.
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Brenda1966
| Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 10:00 am
About spoilers: I appreciate it when people warn they're going to talk about specific plot points or reveal things about a movie. Some people will put it in white print so you have to highlight it to read (like in the Identity thread). When I come to a movie thread I haven't necessarily seen the movie, but may just be interested in whether people liked it or would recommend it. For some silly reason I don't mind being spoiled about TV or Survivor, but when I go to the movies I want to be literally and figuratively "in the dark!"
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Newman
| Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:11 am
OK...I'll try to learn the format here. I guess I'll start all of my posts with "SPOILER". I want to come here, to this site, to talk about a movie that I've seen. Discuss it with others who have seen it NOT to decide if I want to go see it in the first place. Spoiler. In Mystic River I wonder if the Kevin Bacon character ever prosecuted his friend, Sean Penn, for the murder of Tim Robbins (it's been awhile now and I've forgottent he character names). Kevin made that gun gesture to Sean at the parade, at the end, which said to me that he knew he killed Dave. Does he just let it slide? I'm guessing probably. Why? How do you live with that? One friend killing another friend (and wrongly at that!).
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Brenda1966
| Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 2:23 pm
** spoiler ** Thanks Newman! I think Penn probably won't be prosecuted unless a body washes up on shore, even then they probably wouldn't find enough evidence. They never went after him for killing Ray so many years ago probably from lack of evidence, resources, and not caring much because Ray was a thug -- but they seemed to know that Ray disappeared right after Penn was out of jail. I can definately see Penn getting an Oscar nod for this.
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Newman
| Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:06 pm
SPOILER SPOILER Brenda, I wonder what Dave's wife was thinking. She spilled her guts to Sean Penn, right? She told him that she thought Dave had killed his daughter, right? Dave gets killed. Well, who else would have done it but Sean Penn? Wouldn't she go to Kevin Bacon and complain? I wonder if Alegria would tell us how it turned out in the book??
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Bronxie
| Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 10:28 am
Brenda or Newman...just wondered what you thought about Tim Robbins. Since his portrayal of a subdued, withdrawn confused (whatever) character required a different but crafted acting style.
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Brenda1966
| Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:09 am
Oops -- double post!
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Brenda1966
| Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 11:16 am
Bronxie, I thought Robbins was wonderful at creating a zoned out character -- he was consistent and yet not over-the-top with the portrayal. He created a feeling that he really wasn't "all there". Newman, I think the book and movie ended the same. I don't think there was any more "conclusion" or follow up in the book, but I'll ask a friend who read the book.
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Alegria
| Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 6:15 pm
The book and movie did end the same way. The cop made it clear that he was never going to give up on his mission to bring Sean Penn's character to justice for what happened to Dave.
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Brenda1966
| Monday, November 24, 2003 - 10:06 am
*SPOILER * Alegria, I think the movie was ambiguous -- all we see is Bacon pointing his finger at Penn. But in the book he apparently says something to Robbin's widow about how one day he'll get Penn. (I didn't read the book, I asked a friend.) I'm glad to know that he is going to try and get Penn as soon as they have some proof -- and that he wasn't just turning a blind eye.
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Newman
| Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 7:15 pm
SPOILER That part, pointing the finger, gun-like, at Sean Penn, was confusing. In the movie I didn't get the idea that Kevin Bacon was going to go after his former friend, Penn. To me it said he knew he did it, was guilty of killing Dave or even Ray before that, but that was it. Would you send your friend to jail? It's a tough moral question. In a sense you could say Sean Penn put Dave out of his misery...if you were going to rationalize things. Besides Kevin Bacon was getting back with his ex so he had other things on his mind, perhaps. Bronxie, I liked Tim Robbins portrayal. What did you think of his wife? I can't believe she told Sean Penn that she thought Dave killed his daughter. Then again, he was covered in blood that night. What was she to think? She had a good fearful face. Looked scared much of the time.
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Bronxie
| Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 8:58 am
Newman I was so taken aback by the male performances I hardly noticed the "wives". They were all good but my eyes were only on the three stars. I hadn't read the reviews...and didn't know what to expect...and once it started I was mesmerized by their acting. To tell the truth I was a little confused at the end, but by that time I was glad all violence and conflict was over. I could complain, however, about one of the abductors, in the beginning, being deliberately portrayed as a priest. There was no need for it, it didn't "move" the story along......could anyone tell me if it was in the book? ...And, everybody, have a yummy Thanksgiving.
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Brenda1966
| Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 1:43 pm
Bronxie -- I asked a friend about the book and she doesn't remember any indication that one of the abductors was a priest. I agree that it seems like a cheap thing to do and completely unnecessary to the story. Newman -- I can easily see this cop arresting his "friend". They were school buddies, but really no longer friends and this guy deliberately killed 2 people! I don't think it's that much of a moral dilemma. One is a thug and the other a cop, we assume a law abiding cop.
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Rslover
| Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 4:48 pm
Just saw this finally. Excellent performances but kept thinking how these guys look mid 40s, not mid 30s, (as they are). SPOILERS-- Regarding the ending - Jimmy (Sean Penn) said to Sean (Kevin Bacon) I wish you would have done it sooner (caught the killers). So, he knew immediately that Jimmy killed David. Everyone talks about how they didn't like the ending because he got away with murder, but I think the pointing showed that he was coming after him. Didn't like the scene with AnnaBeth (Laura Linney) at the end. All of a sudden she becomes Lady Macbeth. With all the different plot directions it could have taken, the shooting is actually an "accident" so to speak. Skipped over book details because I want to read it and not be spoiled. Then I can see how much artistic direction was actually taken. Overall, an enjoyable movie, though obviously not uplifting.
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Lslb
| Monday, January 26, 2004 - 9:27 am
Sean Penn won best actor and Tim Robbins won best supporting actor for their roles in this at the Golden Globes last night.
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Azriel
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 6:10 am
Spoiler * * * I just got back from seeing the movie tonight. About Sean pointing the gun finger at Jimmy - I don't know what the book said because I haven't read it, but I got the feeling that in the movie version the implication was that he wasn't going to pursue him. It seemed like Sean and Jimmy were just as scarred as Dave by the whole childhood incident. It affected their lives or at least they believed that it affected their lives in negative ways because they carried so much guilt for being the ones that weren't carried away. I thought that Sean was kind of relieved to have Dave out of their lives, so to speak. I guess I interpreted it wrong. Something that I thought was really stupid was the explanation of why Ray Jr. and his friend killed Katie. When I realized it was Ray Jr., I was sure that he had killed her because he knew that his brother was going to go away with her and leave him alone with that hag of a mother. They were standing in the road stopping a random car with a gun for fun and it accidently went off? That is just a lame explanation for it. Is this what happened in the book too? I thought that Sean Penn and Tim Robbins both had excellent performances. The scene in the park when the officers were holding Jimmy back from Katie's body just tore me up.
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Yankee_in_ca
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 2:14 pm
Spoiler too... * * * * * Azriel: I happen to have the book here with me near my desk. In the book, Celeste (Dave's widow) had just come up to Sean, and was obviously outwardly troubled. Sean, after being concerned about Celeste's state of mind, looked across and saw Jimmy. Directly from the book: "The float passed them, but Celeste kept following it, moving through the crowds, waving, calling her son's name. Sean felt Lauren idly caress his arm, and he looked across the street at Jimmy. If it took him the rest of his life, he was going to bring him down. You see me, Jimmy? Come on. Look over again. And Jimmy's head swiveled. He smiled at Sean. Sean raised his hand, the index finger pointing out, the thumb cocked like the hammer of a gun, and then he dropped the thumb and fired. Jimmy's smile broadened."
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Yankee_in_ca
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 2:20 pm
Regarding the explanation of why Ray Jr. and his friend killed Katie, it pretty much happened the same way in the book. In fact, it was my biggest disappointment in the whole book -- it seemed to be too "small" an explanation. From the book: "Sean looked at the kid sniffling in the chair and the other kid, mute, looking up at them like he hoped they'd leave soon so he could get back to playing Doom in the back bedroom. Sean was pretty sure once he got a sign language interpreter and a social worker and questioned them that they'd say they did it "because." Because they had the gun. Because they were there on the street when she drove up it. Maybe because Ray had never really liked her. Because it seemed like a cool idea. Because they'd never killed anyone before. Because when you had your finger curled around a trigger, you just had to pull it or otherwise that finger would itch for weeks. ...(Sean) wished he had an answer for Brendan, but looking at these two kids, nothing came to mind. Nothing at all."
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Azriel
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 7:19 pm
Thanks, Yankee 
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Ocean_islands
Member
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 9:14 am
I saw this movie and thought it was good except I didn't like the ending.
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Cablejockey
Member
12-27-2001
| Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 10:30 am
The whole story has a dark, unforgiving feel to it. The saddest thing next to the young girl dying in such a stupid way was the attitude toward Dave. He survived a horrible experience at the hands of child molesters, yet everybody acted as if it was too bad he survived and came back. He was blamed, ridiculed at school, shunned by neighbours and old friends. Just before the end, in the book, he is told--too bad you didn't die back then and save us all this trouble. That felt so disturbing, months after reading the book, I still think about it.
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