Gosford Park
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TV ClubHouse: archive: Movies Sept 2002 - April 2003: Gosford Park

Soeur

Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 03:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
We saw this movie today. This is one of the Oscar nominations I was very curious to see. Gosford Park could be Robert Altman's last film, since he is 82, and he is at the top of his game. His signature is lots of subplots and actors. The setting is an English country estate, between the wars. He did a tremendous job of creating the atmosphere and class differences above and below stairs. I really loved the sense of time and period details. The servants measuring between place settings in order to ensure the proper distance between plates, the seating order for supper below stairs, how the servants washed, did laundry - all great.

Maggie Smith was so believable as the snooty, financially dependent aunt. Kristin Scott Thomas was great as the lady of the manor. All the actors had interesting roles. By the finish I loved the servants and had little sympathy for their betters. (Personally, I would have cut off Maggie's allowance.)

How could an American filmmaker have gotten it all so right? I don't think I have seen a British movie about the same period that captured the sense of time and place as well. If Altman wins an Oscar for this one it would be well deserved.

Juju2bigdog

Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 04:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Long on details, short on story line, I thought. A pretty movie, but not a great movie.

Muse

Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 09:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Juju2bigdog. All the details did make it pretty "authentic", and I found them to be fairly interesting...up to a point. After the first forty-five minutes or so, I started getting bored. Someone described GP to me as, "Nothing happens, nothing happens, someone gets killed, nothing happens, nothing happens" before I went to see it, and I ended up feeling the same way. Additionally, there were so many characters that it was impossible for me to get especially emotionally invested in any of them. I didn't care what happened, and that's fine...because not much *did* happen!

So I guess this is the kind of movie where some people will love it, while others just say it was "pretty" but dull. Usually I have a high tolerance for so-called "slow movies" (those that aren't necessarily plot-driven - although I must admit that I haven't seen much of Altman's work), but I don't know...just didn't get into this one.

Soeur

Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 03:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok. That's it! We saw different movies with the same name. The ONE I saw had many different characters and was a fascinating period piece which demonstrated (quite realistically) what life would have been like at a wealthy estate at the end of the empire. The individual characters were so interesting that I really was not that concerned about whether anything (beyond their daily routine) happened to them.

1. Sir William McCordle, the wealthy owner of the estate where guests have assembled for a weekend shooting party. Some guests are seeking private time with Sir William to seek help with financial difficulties. Sir William is a cold hearted capitalist who made his fortune by owning a series of factories (which, in addition to his house servants, provided him with a supply of working class females to have sex with). Sir William is feared and catered to.

2. Lady Sylvia, played by Kristin Scott Thomas, is his icy wife. She came from the category of the impoverished upper class and drew lots with her sister in order to determine who would marry Sir William.

3. Countess Threntham, (aka Maggie Smith). She is dependent on Sir William for her allowance and from her precarious perch feels entitled to pass judgement on everyone else. Her sharp barbs are very funny.

4. Mrs. Wilson, the head housekeeper as played by Helen Mirren. Her serious devotion to the smooth running of the household was so well done and when her background was explored later in the movie it made that selfless focus all the more poignant. Her belief in the system caused her to sacrifice a great deal. Where will she go at the end of this story?

5. Morris Weissman, hollywood producer (played by Bob Balaban, who also co-created the movie with Robert Altman, who is 76 and not 82 as I said in my earlier post, above). In doing a bit of research for this post I found a wonderful quote:

"The movie throws in a hall-of-mirrors wrinkle in its choice of three of the guests: a discreetly gay American movie producer, Morris Weissman (Mr. Balaban), researching his newest movie, "Charlie Chan in London"; his ambitious, bisexual boyfriend, Henry Denton (Mr. Phillippe), an actor posing as a Scottish valet; and the English matinee idol Ivor Novello (Jeremy Northam). Novello was a real-life movie star who also composed numerous English hit songs in a Noël Coward style. A running subtext of the film is the collision and mutual exploitation of two far-flung fantasy worlds: aristocratic England and Hollywood.

As much as the presence of a movie star and a Hollywood producer titillates some of the aristocrats, they also envy and look down on their American guests, wearing their snobbery as armor. Mr. Balaban's producer has some of the screenplay's most telling lines about the relationship between these two worlds.

"How do you put up with these people?" Weissman asks Novello, who replies with a smile, "You forget I earn my living by impersonating them." When Novello sits at the piano and sings his songs evoking the upper-class milieu as a charmed never-never land of romance and wit, the servants practically swoon, while the aristocrats affect utter disinterest. When Weissman is discussing casting on the telephone to Hollywood, the name Claudette Colbert is dropped, and he asks, "Is she affected or is she British?" http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/26/movies/26GOSF.html


Anyway, this post is getting very long. Those are just a FEW of the characters. For me, the movie could have run for another hour as I found it to be delicious. The police inspector was a total dud and could have been done much better. The uniformed officer who stood in his shadow had a couple of interesting moments, especially when he stirs in Alan Bates' emotional wounds. The copper should have had more time with the houseguests and the inspector should have spent time in a cupboard with the chubby maid.

The trailer for the movie is completely misleading and gives the impression that this will be a sparkling Agatha Christie-type whodunit. When it is actually a study of class struggle in Britain and the end of the Empire, one that makes it easy to see why the upper crust crumbled.

This is a movie I look forward to seeing again. For anyone expecting a drawing room comedy or a classic mystery - DON'T GO. But, it is often very funny and the undercurrents which led to the murder are truly fascinating and the actors playing the roles have all mostly had their careers on the British stage and are very nuanced in their characterizations and a treat to watch.



whew! That's it! I'm off to do laundry now. Have a great day :)

Juju2bigdog

Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 07:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Nuance is THE word for this pic.

The police Inspector was HILARIOUS.

I found the minutia of the movie rather intriguing, but anyone expecting a well-woven plot will be disappointed.

Crazydog

Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Soeur, that was a wonderful post about a GREAT movie. I think you summed it up perfectly when you said that the movie is about characterizations rather than plot.

Other memorable characters:

Mary Maceachren, the Countess of Trentham's servant. She is new to the service industry and if there is a central character in the movie, it is her. She constantly moves between the upstairs and downstairs world and we see much of both worlds through her eyes. Even after the murder she seems to be one of the only people who cares about understanding what happened and why. The aristocrats view the death as a minor inconvenience while the servants are mostly horrified and afraid of being accused. Her scene with the Countess when the Countess told her to be discreet about the allowance problem was very funny.

Elsie, the head maid. She is having an affair with Sir William and her inability to hold her tongue winds up costing her dearly. Her outburst and the ensuing hushed silence followed by her immediate departure without a word from the room was the epitome of a world in which class and standing was everything.

Robert Parks, the valet of Lord Stockbridge, who is married to one of Lady Sylvia's sisters. A mysterious man who doesn't seem to fully fit in with the other servants and has a secret to hide.

Mrs. Croft, the head cook, who for reasons no one can understand or remember has a particularly deep enmity with Mrs. Wilson. The revelation of the cause of this unrest and the ensuing resolution was the most poignant moment in the film.


Before I saw this movie I had heard so much talk about what a marvelous job Helen Mirren did. While I was watching it, I wasn't that impressed, and her greatest scene comes at the end of the movie. But Soeur, you are so right... after you become aware of the full history of the character and realize what the character was feeling throughout the whole movie, you will applaud Mirren's portrayal.

If you've been to the "Oscar Talk" thread in the "General Discussions" section, you'll know that I am stumping for Maggie Smith for Best Supporting Actress. She is the scene stealer of this movie - every time she was pictured, her cold and arrogant barbs made me laugh. Her reactions to the murder and the beautiful music were priceless.

It's too bad that Mirren and Smith will cancel each other out, because I feel that either on her own would have been the runaway favorite for the Oscar. Both performances were wildly superior to that of the very wooden and underwritten role portrayed by Jennifer Connelly. Connelly's part almost plays itself, I found nothing special about her other than she had the good fortune to be in a very well received film.

The depictions of the class differences were marvelous. The scene that Soeur mentioned with the music was very touching. Novello is playing and singing beautifully, while the aristocrats lounge around and generally ignore it (the Countess wishes he would stop and makes another disdainful comment). The servants do their best to hide out of view and get as close as possible to the open doors in the adjoining rooms. They are utterly enthralled and some dance. Another scene that moved me a lot was after they had served the aristocrats and were sitting down for their own meal. Here were a bunch of servants who for the most part were strangers to each other, yet they sat down together joined only by the common bonds of their occupation. The food they ate was not particularly appetizing looking and of course nowhere near as magnificent as upstairs. But they seemed so happy.

In general most of the servants seemed happy with their lives and never thought twice about ever wanting more, while many of the aristocrats all seemed to have their own minor insignificant problems that they made mountains out of.

There are a few problems with the movie. Many of the characters were extraneous. I had a hard time sorting out the aristocrats and figuring out who was married to who and what their particular problem or situation was. Especially the dark haired women and the men attached to them. It was only after I got home and looked on the website that I could figure out the relationships. And it tends to get slow in the middle, so don't expect a fast paced plot. I also had a little trouble remembering each servant's name and who was attached to who (what was the whole deal with the sister/cousin/whatever who couldn't afford her own maid?). And in telling fashion, downstairs every servant was addressed by the name of his or her master rather than their own.

For those of you who haven't yet seen Gosford Park, I urge you to do so. I think the theme of this movie is about being content and satisfied with what you have, and to not be envious of other people's lives. For all the money and trappings the aristocrats had it was clear that on the whole they had a lot more problems and unsatisfied lives than the servants! The DVD and video comes out in May and I will be lining up.

Soeur

Monday, March 04, 2002 - 03:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Crazydog! This movie really stayed with me. That first scene where the servant got soaked to the skin waiting for the car to get lined up and then when she had to help open the flask - it really set up the dynamics and was such a telling (and atmospheric) scene.

I also found it quitely touching how even if servants are attracted to each other (as Mary and Robert Parks were) they are tied to their employers and chances are slim that they will be able to develop a relationship. I really felt sorry for Robert.

The woman who could not afford her own maid was married to a member of the aristocracy. She was from the merchant class and he was a fortune hunter. All the money was gone and she could not afford a maid. Obviously, she was not a member of the nobility or she would have known how appalling it was to be seen anywhere without a maid. Her husband was embarassed by her and she definitely cramped his style. In her own way she had a surprising amount of spunk. The servants mean comments about the machine made lace on her dress was quite a nice detail. Also, if someone can't pay the vails (tips) to servants they would not be welcome as a guest. (By coincidence I came across that fact today.)

I also really liked the music. The different upstairs characters were confusing. The downstairs action was the most fascinating and I became very interested in a number of them. The actor's time on camera was not individually that great but they managed to fully inabit their roles and create personalities that resonated and had depth. There were 22 principal characters involved and I think Altman did a masterful job of weaving their parts together. I just wish it had been longer, although we all were suprised when we looked at our watches that the movie was only a little over 2 hours, it seemed longer, not because we were bored but because so much had unfolded, in its own quiet way.

I really hope Maggie Smith wins for her portrayal. She was soo baaad. :)

Ketchuplover

Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 11:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I've seen it once. That's enough

Webkitty

Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 08:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I saw it when it was out in theaters, loved it!

Ketchuplover

Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 12:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
please explain yourself young lady :)

Zeyna

Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 08:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I could not get into this movie at all. Too many characters, and none really stood out IMHO. Maybe I just didn't get the point, but it seemed to drag on, not much happened, and at by the end, I just wanted it to end.

Mssilhouette

Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay while I liked the characters and all the details what bugged me about the movie was the visual clues that they kept hammering home.

How many freaking times were we gonna see the 4 bottles in the kitchen until we finally realized one was for polish and the other said Posion on it as clear as day.

I got this when the showed the kitchen area the FIRST freaking time. But over the course of the movie I think these bottles on the ledge were show about 3 to 4 times.

And the camera didn't just give a brief shot, it lingered there so you really understood that this is an important clue...so pay attention. For a movie that was based primarly on subtlety, this was a over the top. I won't go into a rant about the lingering shots of other obvious clues.

I liked the movie but I didn't appreciate that it assumed its audience wouldn't get the clues so it had to hold the shot longer than normal.

Marysafan

Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 01:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Saw it on Direct TV's "All day ticket. I liked this movie quite a lot. I really appreciated Ms. Mirren's performance so much more the second time through.

Watching it the second time...knowing what I knew...made it all the more compelling. Scenes that I thought were just ordinary...became extraordinary when you realized the history of the characters.

Awesome movie.

Hermione69

Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"The trailer for the movie is completely misleading and gives the impression that this will be a sparkling Agatha Christie-type whodunit. When it is actually a study of class struggle in Britain and the end of the Empire, one that makes it easy to see why the upper crust crumbled."

This really needed to be said again, I think, because it was advertised on PPV as a whodunit type mystery and the mystery was minimal. I was very disappointed. This is the type of movie where if I watched it again, I would probably enjoy it more for the characterization, but it wasn't what I was looking for when I ordered it. I LOVE mysteries and this was more about human relationships.

Ocean_Islands

Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
This was an excellent film. I'm amazed that Altman made a movie with no plot that was consistently interesting. The discovery of the characters, and their interactions, is the point of this film. It's not a murder mystery, either. Yes, there is a murder but it is on the side and not at all the focus of the film.

Hummingbird

Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 08:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I never cared that much for Robert Altman. My first experience with him was Nashville. I didn't appreciate his negative remarks about our country after 9/11. For this reason I stayed away from Gosford Park. I have trouble separating a man from his "art" when he bites the hand that fed him.