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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 1:39 am
Are you preparing to look for a job? Or are you in the middle of a job search now? Do you need a place to worry, growl, dump your blues, jump for joy, or just whine about your employment situation? Here it is--a place for posting both good and bad news with respect to your search. You can share as little or as much as you like. And you can offer concrete help and give or take advice. I'll start: Here's my personal growl: I have been looking for a job since Jan 1 of 2002 without success. I think it has been particularly tough for me because of my gender (F) and age (56). I am still plugging away even though it has become increasingly difficult to remain positive. Here's my whine: I have met with one headhunter, three or four employment agencies, had two referrals, and have been invited to approximately 10 interviews. I have made it to the second cut on two. But in the end, I came away with zippo. Most of my job research is conducted via online searches (Monster, individual company websites, wwwfairfielcountyjobs.com, etc.) I have been keeping my applications in an alphabetized notebook, with information about each company/job stapled along with my resume/cover letter to make it easy to respond immediately should that prospective employer call suddenly. That tactic has been helpful to me from an organizational perspective, but . . . now I find I have concrete proof that I have either been ignored or rejected by enough places to fill two entire cabinet drawers and 2 entire 3-hole notebooks! And here is where I am currently: Today, I drove an hour to respond to attend an interview today (Monday, 1/5 from 10 am - noon) that surprised me. I actually had 2 interviews for 2 different open positions--meaning I have double the chance of landing something! Both went well, IMO. I have excellent qualifications for each, and I could see myself working for either director. They will be making their decisions by the third week of January. I intend to send my thank you notes tomorrow, and continue my search.
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Kaili
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 7:45 am
I'll join in. I graduated May 2002 with a BS in Geography and in Jan. 2003 with a BSE in Secondary Education (Social Studies). I've sent out soooo many resumes it's not even funny. My biggest complaint is the lack of response. Go ahead and reject me, but at least have the decency to send a rejection letter. I took my time to write up a cover letter, send a resume, and in many cases spent $8 a pop on transcripts. The least they can do is send a form rejection letter out. I have a job at UPS at night- I've been there over 4 years, get paid decent and the benefits are good. In September I'll get the pension money (after 5 years work you get it). I'm also subbing but there just aren't any jobs right now for social studies and it's very competitive. I don't know what I'm competing with- I graduated with a 3.7 (and 4.0 in my grad classes that we had to take). I guess I ust don't have the extra experience through volunteering or working jobs that involve kids. I did, in November, get a job offer. It wasn't for teaching...it was for a program working with the 30 most emotionally disturbed kids in the county. They would be otherwise institutionalized and the woman asked if I could restrain a child and mentioned that they may kick, bite, etc. Nothing else was happening for me at the time so I accepted the job. It was to start this week. A few weeks later I got another interview to be a gifted and talented coordinator. Loved the job title and description, but I found out in the interview that it was a 12 hour a week position. That would have been fine with my UPS job, BUT it's a good 30-40 minute drive so I turned it down because I had the other job. She gave me only one day to make the decision because she had to present it to the school board the next day. A week or so later suddenly I start to get called daily to sub. I realize that subbing is more what I want to do, gives me connections in the schools, etc. I then decide that I want to sub and stay at UPS at least until September if I can to get that pension money. Also, to be honest, I was terrified to quit UPS because of the risk. I know the job, I've gotten over $3 in raises since I've been there, part time with great benefits. What if I hated the county job? I didn't even have any luck before Christmas getting a retail job. Maybe my education makes them not want to hire me, thinking I would demand more than they wanted to pay. So if I hated that job, I would either have to deal with the biting and kicking job or be jobless which is not an option. So here I am today- I decided to call the county job and say that I've had the subbing opportunity and it's what I need right now. I didn't want to burn bridges because maybe she'll need help in summer when school isn't in. I called the gifted and talented job yesterday and left a message saying that if they didn't hire anyone yet and the offer still stands, I'd be interested (it's worth a shot anyway- I could pull it off 2 days a week and I think I would like it). I did all this, and now I'm a little freaked out that I made a mistake. It's Tuesday- school started again yesterday- and I haven't been called to sub. What if I was just getting called a lot because it was right before Christmas and either a lot of subs higher on the list were turning it down so they could shop, or the teachers were calling in to shop? Eh, something will work out, right?
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 8:26 am
Kaili, So glad you joined in here! You have everything going for you and are sure to find your stride very quickly! This is not the best time for landing a teaching job--because of the budget process, the money is typically already spent. I think you'll see more action in the spring and summer. And subbing is a terrific way for a school to get to know you and think of you when hiring time rolls around. I used to have a trick that helped distinguish me from the crowd of subs. If a class was really good for me, I'd leave the real teacher a small gift for each student (pencils, etc.). When the teacher returned, she/he was pleased with the class, and the class got positive reinforcement for being good for a sub. A lot of times that became the buzz in the teacher lunchroom, and teachers would then request me. Of course, the more practice I had subbing, the better I got! You make a big impression on principals if, when he/she walks in to check on things, that the class is under control and happily and busily engaged in the assignment. After I graduated from college with a degree in education, I taught English for 5 years. When I took time out to start a family, I subbed for about 5 years. Don't worry a bit; you will get called! There is never any end of need for subs. I think you made really, really good decisions! I wouldn't have recommended that you accept that country job. And I think your decision to find out if the gifted and talent coordinator position is still open is a wise one. That country job not in your field. Taking it could pigeonhole you into a career you hadn't intended. It holds more of a potential for failure--because you don't have the tools to deal with the complexity of educating this type of student. I speak from experience. My first teaching job was at a regular high school with segregated classes for the emotionally disturbed. I taught these kids and, though I grew to love many of the kids (not all), I had a very tough year emotionally. You really need the training for it. A note about UPS: When my dh was between jobs, he took a fill-in type job doing mortgages (helping people refinance). He's a great numbers man. He was shocked to learn that a couple of people he helped had absolutely beautiful homes and made great salaries--all due to making a decision to stick with UPS for a number of years. As a result, we both have a very high opinion of the company. Yes, it will work out because you are taking actions and not just sitting and waiting for things to happen. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised before too long!!! 
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Tabbyking
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 9:19 am
too bad you don't live here, kaili! it took 5 weeks to find a permanent sub who had either a history or social studies background (major)to take my dd's AP history class. the sub has been working since october and is even there when the real teacher 'guest lectures' (when he is out of the hospital between treatments). this job will go to at least the end of march and probably to the end of the year. sub and his wife are expecting twin daughters--due in early march, but they could come anytime after another week or so--so they may have to have another sub here or there when the babies first arrive. make sure your school district knows your specific background. some states (like california) require a degree in a specific major to be a long-term (more than one month) sub for that subject. seems like in our town, half the younger female teachers are pregnant. they get 3 months off for maternity leave. lots of long-term sub jobs here, especially for elementary classes. good luck, ladies! i'm sure you'll find something you love.
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Ginger1218
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:04 am
In about 1 - 2 years I will be wanting to move to South Florida (preferably Fort Lauderdale or that area), I will need to work. Now my firm has an office in Miami, so I have contacted HR there and informed them to keep on the lookout. If necessary, I would move sooner. But, I have never relocated to a different place before, so I don't know when I should start looking for work, or if I should buy a condo first and then look, it is very confusing to me. I also have a list of law firms in that area, so I can send out resumes and letters and line up some interviews, but I don't know how to approach this. Any suggestions?
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Rslover
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 12:46 pm
Ginger, I would ask the company that may seem interested in you if they know of any sublets. Also, a good idea might be to rent a place that has an option to buy. Just a thought.
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Gidget
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 1:07 pm
my suggestion has been helpful to me in past searches... too many people forget the thank you letter... don't forget to send a short note to the interviewer thanking them for their time and briefly reiterating what you like about them as a perspective employer and what you think you can contribute. you cannot believe how many times i have gotten responses such as 'you were the only one who sent thank you', etc. a few times thanks yous did not lead to a job but they did lead to more leads. it is a very positive thing that can really set you apart from the pack. if you are interviewing and not sending thank yous you are not finishing the interview. good luck to all you hunters... fyi if you are in the pennsylvania/philly area i know of opportunities some time this year. primarily in the financial area. my office is relocating and not everyone will be going. they may even pay for your relocation if that is of interest to you smooches all
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 2:26 pm
Great comments, all. Good idea, Rsl! Tabby (Cybermom!), you are so right about the rate of pregnancies among teachers! Long-term subbing is a dependable 'gig' that allows you to present lesson plans in a cohesive way so that REAL teaching/learning occurs(!!). It usually pays at a slightly higher rate, and is easier in terms of maintaining classroom control. It's so much better for the kids, too. And (the importance of this is greatly dependent upon the age level you teach), you will no longer be an anonymous sub, but someone they can grow to trust and care for. That's reverse is true for you, as well. Thanks, Auntie Gidget (GG), for the reminder about thank you notes and the offer to share info about possibilities in your area. That is very generous of you. And thanks for the smooches for all of us! Ginger, what exactly do you do? In addition to the suggestions above, I would also: Start looking at a local FLA newspaper online, to begin familiarizing yourself with the area and get to know what typical rental costs are, learn the names of some rental agents, etc. , and Make a point of talking to any people here who live in FLA and might be helpful in some way. (Don't know if there are any!)
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Legalboxer
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 2:31 pm
I’ll jump in here as well… as herckle knows, I too have been looking for a job for a while now (though not as long as some of you) I took a year off after graduating from law school to work for AmeriCorps – something I considered for a long time but knew it was then or never once I entered a real profession, Salary was poverty level and politics complicated life (like usual) but it was an once in a lifetime opportunity to establish and run a new nonprofit in Baltimore for a year- how many graduates get to put executive director on their resumes so fast.. but that job ended in August 2003 and I have been looking ever since.. I REALLY want to be in the legal field, which has been a goal for 23 years now.. but it has frozen up, especially if you don’t have post-law school experience. I am applying all over MD, DC and VA- for attorney jobs as well as nonprofit, public interest, government jobs- gotten a select number of interviews, (waiting on 3 responses since Thanksgiving) – and always have done the thank you letters etc. I know how good I am, but I definitely think my lack of actual experience hurts me… (I have a masters in public affairs, and BA in political Science and History, along with that law degree- and I have done everything from being a court appointed advocate for kids in foster care while in grad school, to teaching a high school law class to web design and grantwriting, along with all my internships at public interest law firms). The hardest part is that I cant find any side work until I get a real job- I am unable to do things like retail or waitressing, and no one will hire me to do things like stocking or cleaning etc.. even applied to UPS, had a good interview but no response. The thing with the teaching is interesting – its funny because I know that at some point I want to teach as a hobby- more as a n adjunct professor somewhere- I know I am good at it and enjoyed my time teaching the high school class.. but I also know its one in a long line of things I want to do as hobbies, with attorney as my actual profession, but every day I keep seeing ads for NON certified people to come teach in DC and Baltimore City- regular pay plus tuition to get certified, and even loan forgiveness because it is an underprivileged area- and they are actually looking for social studies teachers now, which would be so perfect.. and I know if I applied I would get the job and I would enjoy it but I just don’t want to commit to 2 years and risk never being able to get into the legal field.. I took a risk with AmeriCorps which I don’t regret but as those who know me and have seen me, I am a born orator at heart, meant for the courtroom and I don’t want to stray too much until I have a foothold in the legal field. Most of the jobs I really want require 2-5 years experience, but how can I get that if no one is hiring new graduates… Anyway, that is my predicament at the moment.. but I know not to let it stress me out because what good is worrying??
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 2:52 pm
I will add another tool I have mentioned, but requires a small investment on your part to become a member. I enrolled with Elance, an online job posting/provider bidding kind of deal. I have done freelance writing through Elance and got my latest job helping to write some achievement test material through them. There are other FREE online job posting sites, too. I am thinking of craigslist.com in the NY area, as well. Don't know how dependable the listings are, though, I did get an interview for a communications position in NYC through an ad I found on craigslist.
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 2:56 pm
Legal, you know I have my fingers, toes and elbows crossed for you. I think Rosie has some other parts crossed, as well! I hope someone like GAL will pop in here to help advise those folks who are seeking work in the Legal arena!
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Ginger1218
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 3:38 pm
Herckle, I have worked in law firms for over 30 years. I have done it all (except for being an attorney) Years ago, I was a legal secretary, I have been word processing and secretarial manager (this is in very very very large firms). I have even done some marketing for law firms. So, I basically can fit in anywhere. I am pretty sure I can find a job, (at least I hope so), I am just not sure of the time frame of when to start looking in earnest. How long before I want to move? Like I said, I have never relocated before, so I am not sure about how to time things.
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Maris
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 3:48 pm
Well Ginger, I tell you one thing. I would not buy first. Be sure that you are happy with your relocation before you buy. I can tell you stories of many friends who sold up and moved only to find the grass was not greener and they werent happy. I would definitely go for a sublet for a year first. That is just me, super cautious.
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Marysafan
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 4:08 pm
Ginger, I agree with Maris. I have relocated several times through transfers and promotions while working for a large retail company. We found it easier to rent or sublet for a while while we got the "lay of the land" so to speak. It gives you time to research neighborhoods and find an area convenient to those things most important to you.
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Ginger1218
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 4:11 pm
I just hate the thought of moving again within a year or so. I want to buy, and hate moving. It is a big job. I like to go and stay LOL, very lazy.
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 4:48 pm
I think the most important thing that can help anyone is an inside track. Networking, networking. Unfortunately, for me, that's hard to do now that I'm in a 'foreign' state. My SIL, a polisci magna cumme laude grad from Harvard, decided to leave the college teaching scene in Washington state because she and her dh (also a college professor) could never find positions in the same college. She conducted what she called 'informational interviews' to obstensibly learn about jobs she was interested in--and made new contacts that way. She found that people were more than happy to talk about their field and share info about openings, leads and contacts! Those tactics (along with her credentials, I'm sure--she's a published author) led her to the great Scholar-in Residence position with the National Academy of Science (policy position paper kind of thing) that she has now. Legal, those informational interview kind of things might be helpful to you. Just thinking here.
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Goddessatlaw
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 5:13 pm
Legal, I worked as a clerk on the court of appeals before going into practice. The best advice I ever received was from the judge I worked for and I'm passing it on to you - go get your litigation experience by prosecuting. You may not want to litigate, you may not want to prosecute - but you will NEVER find a better training ground than a prosecutor's office, and if you can stand to do four years (particularly if you prosecute in a big city), there's nothing anyone can do to intimidate you again (in or out of court). You will make contact with many if not most of the lawyers in your community, and develop relationships and a reputation with them - they consider this strongly in making hiring decisions. You'll have experience with the paperwork of trial practice as well as an unflappable demeanor in court. You will make yourself eminently hireable in just about any arena of private practice if you enter this training ground. Prosecutors offices have notoriously high turnover, and they're always looking to hire at the learning (misdemeanor) level because those who excel are always being moved up or hired into private practice fairly quickly. Get your resume on file with them - they may not call immediately, but they will call and soon. Every office has a different hiring policy (I had to do a mock trial, but those were the old days) - but generally they don't pay too much attention to the skill level, just the ability and willingness to learn. They will provide the training, and fast. At first you'll think you'll never get the hang of it and want to quit, but trust me - once the training and a little experience kick in, you'll be off and running. Even if you don't want to do this, I recommend giving it a shot. Your work in family and child advocacy should make you a desirable candidate (as well as your grant-writing skills - prosecutors love to get that federal and designated grant money). It doesn't pay much, but the educational and professional benefits more than make up for it in the long run.
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Jmm
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 6:20 pm
Kaili, As the sub coordinator for our local high school, I'd like to offer a few suggestions to help you get those sub jobs more regularly. 1. Stop by the schools you are interested in subbing for and introduce yourself to the sub coordinator. (Best times around 10 am or 2 pm) 2. Have a half page sheet with your name, phone number, certifications, availability, and a little something personal about yourself (why you want to sub, etc). 3. Ask the coordinator if it would bother them for you to call in the mornings and see if they have any unfilled jobs. Those mornings that a sub doesn't show up or a teacher wakes up sick and tries to come in are a real problem. Or ask if it would be better for you to call the afternoon before and let them know that you will be available in the morning for a short notice job. 4. If you have let them know you will be available in the morning, that means be ready to walk out the door within 10 minutes of their call. Be showered and all but dressed. The subs I tend to call most often are the ones that are available when I call requesting their help with getting a class covered. 5. If the sub system in you area is automated, check to see if you can call and peruse the unfilled jobs. Also, don't put too many restrictions on your preferences. (You may want to teach social studies, but heck an English class will do. I suggest offering to teach anything that you don't absolutely have an aversion to.) The best time to check the system is the first hour after school is out and about 8 or 9 pm. 6. Be willing to sub outside of your area of expertize for short term jobs, even if you don't know a lot about calculus, neither do most of the other people that sub. The main thing is to get your name out there and remembered. And we do tend to hire our subs that are qualified when jobs become available. Two of my subs start tomorrow as full time teachers. 7. Leave the teacher a written report on each class period. Doesn't have to be long, but be honest. You don't have to list everything that happened, but be sure to cover anything major, and let them know if a class was exceptional. 8. Also, if you take a job and something happens that you can't make it always call the sub person as quickly as you can to let them know that you are unable to cover that job. We understand that you get sick too, but don't wait till the last minute to tell us. Sorry, didn't mean to be so long winded about this, but these are the things that I like from my subs and I think that it is pretty universal. Good Luck Jackie
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Twiggyish
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 6:28 pm
Good points Jackie. (I've subbed myself in the past)
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Herckleperckle
| Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 7:19 pm
You guys are wonderfully generous in offering such great advice!! 
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Colordeagua
| Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 1:43 pm
Ginger: Are you a legal secretary? A friend of mine relocated from Chicago to Ft. Meyers area a few years ago (went with her SO). She left a firm in downtown Chicago where she had been employed as a legal secretary for approximate 35 years!!! Obviously, she's very good, experienced, etc. She's having a hard time with legal secretarial in Florida. Not too many large (or even what would be considered mid-size) firms in Florida. I think she's on her 5th - 6th legal job there. Things just don't work out there. Generally kind of high turnover in offices. I don't think it's her.
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Colordeagua
| Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 2:03 pm
Goddess: That advice describes my boss. His first job out of law school was as a prosecutor in the Chicago suburbs. It's in his past. Has done well since. Litigating is not his specialty, but he is comfortable in a courtroom. He seems to know "everybody" in the Chicago area -- or at least downtown and in the west suburbs. And he is extremely nice. I am so lucky. I don't have to worry about any legal problems -- just ask the boss.
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Legalboxer
| Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 9:02 pm
Thanks GAL and all the others for your input. In actuality there is nothing more I want then to be a litigator, either on the prosecution or defense side- and i have applied to local state's attorney offices and public defenders - there hasnt been any openings until yesterday where the perfect job was posted for the state public defender's office - hand delivered my resume today so we will see how that works out - i would love to work for the US Attorney's Office but they requite experience so i am biding my time with that. had a really good interview today with a legal temp agency in DC - really positive and honest woman recruiter so we will see how that pans out- if it works out, the pay is great for someone with NO income.. even if the work is not the most exciting... its still work and still a way to prove my skills. thanks again for the advice and i hope you all have a good week
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Kaili
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 10:58 am
So I was looking at job postings from the Wisconsin DPI today- I sent out a resume for this job: Wautoma Area School District Job Title: At-Risk, Middle Level Resource Position for grades 6-8 is available beginning January 26, 2004. This postion deals with students at-risk of not being promoted to grade 9 with classmates. Hours are 7:45 a.m. - 11:30 a.m. This position will be for second semester only. Qualifications Wisconsin DPI certification in Elementary/Middle Level that includes grades 6-8 is preferred. Requirements Experience working with middle school students and ability to establish a strong and positive rapport with those students with effective classroom management techniques is required. Ability to work effectively in a team atmosphere is also required. Demonstrated knowledge and skills in reading methods, guided reading, 6+1 writing traits, performance based instruction and assessment is a plus. I got an interview on the 15th! He called back already- very nice guy. He was talking about my living in Arizona and how he was in Gallup for 5 years. Yay. Still no calls for subbing this week. Thanks for the suggestions- the way they do it is from the central office. The same woman calls for subs for all the schools. When I filled out the tax forms for the job, I was given a checklist of positions I would sub for. I marked all for 6-12. Elementary makes me nervous.
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Sweetbabygirl
| Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 11:23 am
You know what frickin' drives me nuts about temp/permanent placement agencies? You go in, get tested, hit it off with the recruiter...."Oh, these are great scores, the resume is wonderful and to the point, we should have no problem getting stuff for you, yadda, yadda, yadda." A week or so later - CRICKETS!! It is beyond annoying signing up for all these agencies and then, despite calling everyday to be put on the ready to work list, nothing is available. And Kailsy, I'm with you concerning rejection....if you aren't interested in me then for crap's sake, SEND A REJECTION LETTER!! I would respect that more than not getting anything. Finally, an interview that I had forgotten about called today, so I have a second one next week. Second interviews always drive me nuts, by the way.
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