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Kaili
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:15 am
Ednpatty- again I don't know how they do things now, but I'm pretty sure we just started learning letters in kintergarten and the actualy writing was more in first grade. I think. It was awhile ago. I know I read before that, but I was obsessed with reading when I was little (and a bit still now come to think of it). Most kids go into kintergarten at different levels I'm sure, based on what was taught at home earlier. I never went to pre-school. I would think that with his having a bit of base knowledge, he would probably do fine and have a chance to work on his writing skills. I think that's what school should be for- to learn the skills and not be expected to have them all before going in.
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Goddessatlaw
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:18 am
They taught us coloring in kindergarten. Outside of the beating one poor, colorblind kid got at the hands of a since defrocked nun (for coloring the pants of a soldier red instead of blue), I have fond recollections of both going to kindergarten in the morning to see my new friends and coming home at noon to commence playtime with my babysitter. It was a charming, untraumatic way of introducing a youngster to the notion of time management and learning in a world much larger than the familial homestead. I think children are being robbed of the very few years they have to be carefree.
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Ednpatty
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:23 am
My son is color blind also which is not helping him much. You just love them so much you don't what to screw them up too much. You do have to give them something to complain about when they get older.
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Kaili
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:26 am
Well, if he's color-blind now, he still will be next year, right? It's just something I guess he'll need to live with and work around. I don't know, do what you think is right but if he's mentally able- why not? If it's something that doesn't affect his thinking and reasoning abilities and something that can't be changed....
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Maris
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:29 am
My son is color-blind and I never knew it till he was tested in school. He has a problem with green and red. As far as I know the only restriction that will be placed on him is that he wouldnt be acceptable in the air force. You cant be a pilot if you are color-blind.
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:31 am
Ednpatty, I think I'd hold him back. But I may just be saying that cuz I will likely hold my son back. But after reading all this, I see no reason not to hold him back. Writing is overwhelming in early years of school. They have writing journals in first grade. And they write intehm every day. My mom is a teacher and she says many kids HATE writing by third grade because they are forced to do it so much. So if writing is a weak area (as it is for my son) I think it might be a good idea to hold him back. But they will evaluate him (I assume) because there are certain guidelines/criteria that a kid has to meet before they will let him in kindergarten.
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Not1worry
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:34 am
http://www2.worldbook.com/parents/course_study_curr0.asp This is from the World Book Encyclopedia website on typical courses of study for each grade. It is just a suggestion, not a legal list. Take a look at some of the workbooks in the stores. There's a great deal of variety and much of it is inexpensive. I have many links to websites for free worksheets, lesson plans and coloring pages as well, if anyone is interested. With both of my homeschooled children, I found that we completed Kindergarten in about 4-5 months. Both kids are about a grade level ahead, although I'll know for sure when I test them next month. I do think learning at their own pace in their own way has been very beneficial.
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:41 am
Going back to play vs. learning... When I signed Ryan up for preschool at our park district, the head lady was preactically being defensive about how they are a play based preschool. I thought that was great cuz Ryan really didn't need to learn things like letters. He really needed to learn how to play. I think kids learn so much thru playing; sharing, patience, imagination, etc. My sister who is a stay at home mom in a rather affluent suburb (St. Chas. IL) is a typical snooty mom. She wanted a preschool where the kids learn to read, etc. Ugh. Makes me crazy. I would hate to be a teacher up where she lives cuz the parents are so demanding. I think being a teacher in an area where the parents are both working would be better... Sorry about getting off topic! But what is wrong about kids just playing and not being "forced" to write, read, etc so young? What is so great about 1 or 2 hours of homework in first grade?
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 9:47 am
Oh brother Not1! Just looking at all the areas of kindergarten alone gave me a headache! I don't think I am ready! Ryan might be, but I am not!
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Tagurit
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:11 am
I am so glad this thread has been started! My son will be 5 next month. Just like Ednpatty, we will have to register in February. This topic has been on my mind for a month now. My son is bright. He catches on to things very easily. He knows his letters, numbers and writes his letters very well. The problem is he cries easily. If we try to talk about a problem with him (something he is doing when he shouldn't) or going over his letters, he starts to get watery eyes right away and then the tears start falling. I am afraid he will do this in school. How cruel the kids will be if they see him do that all the time. I calmly tell him that next year he will have to be a big boy and not cry with the teacher. I don't know if he gets what I am saying though. My biggest problem is kindergarten is a full day. Personally, I believe it is insane! I think that is an awful lot for a 5 year old to handle. Yes, in some aspect, I can understand pushing the kids for a better education. But, I want my son to be a kid as long as he can. I really am not in a rush for him to grow up. I think kids are being stressed and having too much on their shoulders at too early an age. I guess part of me has been thinking that I just don't want to let go. Maybe that is the thing but I am just worried about him and how he will adjust. I have even thought of homeschooling but then I worry about the socialization issue. Thank you Julieboo for starting this thread. I am enjoying everyone's perspective and opinions.
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Kaili
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:22 am
I found an article/checklist on assessing whether a child is ready to start kintergarten: Kindergarten Readiness Checklist Peggy Gisler, Ed.S. and Marge Eberts, Ed.S. While there's no perfect formula that determines when children are truly ready for kindergarten, you can use this checklist to see how well your child is doing in acquiring the skills found on most kindergarten checklists. Check the skills your child has mastered. Then recheck every month to see what additional skills your child can accomplish easily. Young children change so fast -- if they can't do something this week, they may be able to do it a few weeks later. Listen to stories without interrupting Recognize rhyming sounds Pay attention for short periods of time to adult-directed tasks Understand actions have both causes and effects Show understanding of general times of day Cut with scissors Trace basic shapes Begin to share with others Start to follow rules Be able to recognize authority Manage bathroom needs Button shirts, pants, coats, and zip up zippers Begin to control oneself Separate from parents without being upset Speak understandably Talk in complete sentences of five to six words Look at pictures and then tell stories Identify rhyming words Identify the beginning sound of some words Identify some alphabet letters Recognize some common sight words like "stop" Sort similar objects by color, size, and shape Recognize groups of one, two, three, four, and five objects Count to ten Bounce a ball If your child has acquired most of the skills on this checklist and will be at least five years old at the start of the summer before he or she starts kindergarten, he or she is probably ready for kindergarten. What teachers want to see on the first day of school are children who are healthy, mature, capable, and eager to learn. http://www.familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,21-14779-1,00.html Here's another... How do I ... prepare her for kindergarten? The skills that your child will need to be ready to start kindergarten include knowing the names of colors, identifying some letters, counting to ten, writing their first name, counting items, playing cooperatively with others, following two to three part commands, paying attention and concentrating, sitting for long periods of time, and fitting into the daily routine of the school day. Your child should also be able to listen to and understand simple stories, spend extended time away from parents, dress himself, verbally communicate his needs and wants, and be enthusiastic and curious about new activities. Not all children are ready for school at the same time. If your child is very immature or shy, you can take some steps to help in preparing him for his first day of kindergarten, such as spending time with and playing with other children (especially children who will be in his class), taking him to see his classroom and meet his teacher beforehand, or allowing him to take something special to which he is attached with him to kindergarten. If you feel that your child is still not ready to start kindergarten, you can discuss the problem with his teacher and school to see if accommodations can be made and to discuss the pros and cons of retaining him for a year. Keep in mind that many professionals recommend keeping children with other kids in their same age group and not holding them back a year. Most children seem to be able to adapt to kindergarten and if they are behind or test low on school readiness tests, then they may just need extra help once they begin. Being held back usually means that they will be one of the older children in the class, and this can lead to problems in adolescents, when these older children are more at risk for smoking, drinking, using drugs, being sexually active, and dropping out. All cases should be considered individually though. LINK
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:37 am
as a preschool teacher, i so agree with GAL about letting a kid be a kid!! one preschool i subbed in for 5 months was a parent co-op, with 35 sets of parents between the 2 different classes, who all wanted it done THEIR way. and they all were so worried about the kids not doing flashcard math and being able to read. i told them they were little kids! they were there to have fun, to learn to share, to express their ideas! we did do 'alphabet' days. for the letter A, for example, we would do a project that started with an A, such as making "applesauce". but i kept it simple. the parents wanted a 'schedule', whereby the children did exactly 20 minutes of this, 20 minutes of that. it was insane! and even the president of the parents board had no clue. he was my helper parent one day. i was reading a book about the circus. (well, the reason you read is to get the children involved, helllooo!!) and after i read a page or two, a little boy called out excitedly, "i went to the circus!" and another child said, "me, too! did you see how big and stinky the elephants are!?" i was so happy to see the children all joining in. then the president said, "boys and girls! be quiet! mrs. C is reading and this is not a time to talk!" i wanted to slap him silly. but, anyway, i did fun things and had a lot of flannel board activities, where you could dress a bear for the weather--raincoat, galoshes, mittens, hat, swim trunks, umbrella, sunglasses... it is true that preschool is more like kindergarten used to be and kindergarten is now more like first grade used to be. but a large part of it is just getting children to share their own experiences, have fun, be with other children who aren't their own siblings and realize you can't clunk this child over the head with a lego when you want something they have full day kindergarten is an awful idea and one i believe is actually promoted by two things: money the schools get for each little head in the classroom (full days pay better than half days), and parents who are both on the fast track and don't want to have to arrange day care or their schedules for an entire afternoon. okay, i'm just putting things out here! it's funny this came up because yesterday i mailed out applications to other counties to teach their head start programs...i love being the teacher, because having been both a kid and then a parent, i can see how i want to 'teach' and it's not a totally structured little prison. i have a blast teaching and one of my favorite memories was the son of the awful president of the board where i subbed. one day he looked up at me (his father was there, too, which made it especially great!) and he said, "mrs. C? you really love us, don't you?" i almost started crying! it was the sweetest thing and i knew for sure the children felt about me as i did them.....
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:43 am
Oh boy, just when I was sure I would keep him back, now you tell me if I do that, he'll use drugs, smoke, drink, knock some chick up and drop out!
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Goddessatlaw
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:45 am
Well, there's always that. Julie, are you one of those "glass half empty" types? LOL.
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:50 am
If you see my posts in some of the TV show threads, you'll find that I am a glass half empty and then half full and then half empty again! (Continuity Nazi, that's me!)
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Goddessatlaw
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:51 am
ROTF!!!
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:51 am
>>Being held back usually means that they will be one of the older children in the class, and this can lead to problems in adolescents, when these older children are more at risk for smoking, drinking, using drugs, being sexually active, and dropping out.<< How do they figure this?
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:52 am
where on the checklist does it have anything about sharing and interracting with other children and feeling safe and loved? that list did not give me any warm fuzzies! i totally disagree that being a little older than classmates will put them at any more risk for drugs or acting out than struggling for all those years would! to my mind, the kids who drop out are those who have just given up because school is too demanding on them. most towns do not have one elementary school. when a child continues in preschool, he or she thinks the other children just went to a different class. i don't recall any child being upset about taking another year. i only recall one dad being upset. (i think he took it as his son was 'slow' or something negative. their other children were all girls and had gone right into kindergarten.) and years later, his wife told me he was glad the son had waited another year, after all. if you know in advance that your child might 'need a little extra help', i don't think they're ready. they have even backed the california birthdate from dec 2 to sept 1 now. they knew too many kids were going who weren't mature yet. my daughter's bd is dec 4, so she HAD to wait a whole year. now, she was ready because she had gone to preschool with me for 3 years already! but she was happy to wait...she was such a help to me at the preschool, too! she just turned 16 and is a sophomore. about 1/5 of the class is pretty much her age. several of her friends also turned 16 in dec and several others are turning 16 in the next month or so. never in all her school days did anyone single her out for being older. and she just did so well at everything because she was mature.
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Julieboo
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:53 am
So are the oldest kids in the class always the ones who have these troubles? Even if they are not held back? So kids who have September birthdays will more likely be pot heads and drop outs?
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Schoolmarm
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:01 am
EdnPatty, boys fine motor skills (needed for writing) are typically delayed by about 6 months in comparision to the girls. BUT this is temporary, and will level out at about third grade. Pre-schools and Kindergartens based on the learning theories of Lev Vygotsky and Maria Montessori are more play based. Check with your school district to see if their Kindergarten is "academic" or "play based." Also check to see how much writing is used in that school.
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:03 am
no, my daughter is one of the oldest in her class. she is the youngest board member our habitat for humanity has ever had. she was valedictorian of her eighth grade graduating class. she is on the golf team. she has over 250 volunteer hours for habitat and "S" club. she was given the american association of university women's scholarship for a tech-trek week at fresno state university when she was 12. she has her first college scholarship and she is only a sophomore in high school. yeah, troubled kid, all right!
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:08 am
schoolmarm, that's funny that you listed montessori as more 'play based'. not the ones in california! they want the kids totally organized, speaking with some french phrases, doing things most kids don't do til first grade. the one my friend taught in (san jose) is very, very regimented. (the high tech parents expected/wanted that, too.) she hated it and left after one year. total structure. she had two preschoolers of her own and didn't want them taught that way! she wanted them to be kids longer. unfortunately, kindergartens in california are not play based. the schools are going to make preschool mandatory pretty soon...part of the public school system, so that in kindergarten kids don't feel it is 'play' time. how sad!
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Maris
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:14 am
My son went to a montessori school, kindergarten was play based and was focussed on motor skills and self control, walking across a room holding a bell, etc. Special tools and toys. First grade was like a bootcamp. The kids were doing fractions, learning french, grammar, etc. The school ranked as number one in terms of performance but I got my kid out of there by second grade. it was just plain nuts.
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:14 am
well, i'm off to the treadmill. i know you will all do what is right for your child. just because someone makes a list of what they feel makes a kid ready for kindergarten does not mean they are right about YOUR child. i only suggest that once you make a decision, you stick with and don't try and second-guess your decision or over-talk it with friends, etc. if your child picked up on the talks about him, he might feel there is something 'wrong' with him waiting an extra year, when actually he is the lucky one getting to have another fun/preparatory year first!
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:17 am
maris, you were lucky your child had a play based kindergarten year at montessori. i think maybe silicon valley was acting more for the rich and corporate parents than for the children, to have even preschool and kindergarten so 'strict'. all those little future company presidents...ick! okay, i'm off! everyone do what's right for you!!
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