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Emeraldfire
Member
03-05-2003
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:22 pm
How do you know that Mel Gibson did this for his ego and not because he felt strongly about it and felt it needed to be told. I seem to remember that no major studio wanted to take this movie on. The publicity started from the controversy over the portrayal of the Jewish community. To be "Christ-like" is to spread the word. How many more people do you think he will reach through the movie than through donating his money to charities. As far as we know he may donate money to charity as well. All I am saying is that we don't know his heart so we can not say with certainty what his reasons for making this movie were. It may be just ego or it may be more. As far as Tom Cruise keeping his religion "private", there was a string of interviews and press releases concerning his efforts to bring the Church of Scientology to Germany a while back, so he also fights for his religion.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:27 pm
I agree Emerald, I believe he is motivated by his strong belief and you know what, more power to him. He is putting his career and money on the line for it. I dont think anyone should criticize him for it. It is his work and his decision.
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Scorpiomoon
Member
06-06-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:29 pm
Emeraldfire: You make many good points. I guess, for me, what it comes down to is, many people--actors and directors--have made movies about things they felt passionately about. But how many of those films were advertised on the hood of a car at the Daytona 500? I'm finding it a little difficult to believe Nel Gibson is more than just another Hollywood "player". Call me a cynic, but that's what I believe.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:32 pm
Scorpio, I am with you on the fact that the marketing is a little strange. Have you gone to the official site? They have door handles, posters, etc you can download and even better you can order this stuff by the carload for free. It is very cultish. To me this is like any other movie, it is a story. I have no interest in it but it appears that for some it is like some sort of mission getting people in to see the movie. I think in Mel's case, it is a mission. Is he looking for converts? got me.
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Emeraldfire
Member
03-05-2003
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:41 pm
Thanks Maris Scorpio, I understand where you come from with the hype. We the public have been fed so much from the movie industry, press and government that we would be crazy not to be a little cynical. It sounds crazy but I'm so used to seeing ads for movies, products, etc. on everything that I hardly notice anymore. I did however notice the race car for Viagra and thought it both strange and oddly humorous.
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Jan
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:42 pm
Emerald, you mention taking your daughters to the movie. I don't know how old your kids are but it is my understanding that the violence is so VIOLENT that the movie has been given an R rating. Apparently Mel Gibson agrees with this rating and it is NOT recommended for any children under at the very least, teen years (at least that is what I have heard anyway ) Also, I heard one interview with a Jewish viewer. His point was that, while it is the Romans who crucify and whip Christ (not the Jews), all the Romans in the movie are shown as sympathetic characters..only the Jewish characters are shown as being mean and this is what they fear will incite anti semitism. I have no opinion on this one way or the other as I haven't seen it but it might serve to explain some of the anti semitic fears. Also, apparently one friend of Mel's agreed and asked him to close the movie with a disclaimer that the Romans crucified 250,000 Jews.
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Emeraldfire
Member
03-05-2003
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:45 pm
Jan My daughters will be okay. One just turned 18 and the other is 14. I wouldn't take anyone younger than the teen years either.
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Scorpiomoon
Member
06-06-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:48 pm
Maris: Gotcha. Emerald: I hear ya! Thanks for being so cool about my less than ideal views. 
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:52 pm
I don't know. I'm very undecided about it. I do appreciate Mel's convictions, though.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 5:54 pm
This dialogue is very interesting. What an interesting group we are here at TVCH....able to disagree without being disagreeable. Keep up the good work everybody!
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Jan
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 6:03 pm
Well I just saw a snippet of the Mel interview and he admits that one line was recently removed from the picture (well it is in aramaic but not put into English in the subtitles.) That line is
quote:all jews will be cursed for all time by God
maybe that explains why the jewish people feel it might lead to anti semitism???
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Crossfire
Member
08-07-2001
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 6:03 pm
Heh, well, this is just play stuff, religion and all of that. If it were a serious topic like Big Brother, then people would roll up their sleeves for a battle. 
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 6:09 pm
Well Jan, that might be a problem. I agree.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:03 pm
Jan, he took out that verse, but it is a direct quote from Matthew.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:06 pm
With all due respect, can you please post that passage for me Texannie? I don't remember seeing it.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:20 pm
.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:24 pm
Twiggy, Matthew 27:20-27 It's when Pilate asks the crowd if he should let Jesus or Barabas go free. They say to free Barabbas. Pilate then washes his hands of the matter and says to the crowd "I am innocent of this Man's blood, see to that yourselves. And the people said "his blood be on us and on our children" my translation is New American Standard. Could be that King James has the exactly wording that Mel was talking about.
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:26 pm
Matthew 27:25 HOWEVER... remember the Bible in English has been translated!! The translations are FALLABLE, I do believe that God has said that the JEWS are HIS chosen people. My translation of this verse in Matthew "and all the people answered and said 'His blood be on us and on our children'" I believe Jesus was a rabbi, he went into the temple, he upset their structure. I look at the problems the Catholic Church is facing, and I do believe Jesus would also be angered at the sins we humans are responsible for. To me this movie shows 12 hours of a life. There is so much more to the story that I focus on. I understand there is a place and a time, and for some people (Mel GIbson) this is the place and the time. Also, Mel did NOT take this line out of the movie, he said in the interview with Diane that it is in there, but he took out the ENGLISH subtitile... I think it may be uttered in arabic?
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:28 pm
Hi Texannie!! I'm still learning about Mary Magdelene, ok? The translations have her being a prostitute, but it isnt fact!! ITs amazing to learn the different translation from Greek, or Hebrew, I believe that is why the message is so much more important. BTW there is another "new" translation of the Bible, that is really "funky" its called "The Message"... it has really helped my cousin and some of her kids understand the Word, they have learning disabilities...
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:29 pm
That's a different quote from the one written above which says.." all jews will be cursed for all time by God" There is a difference. I think it's always a matter of interpretation. It can also be the translation from the original into English. (As said above)
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:33 pm
Heavens [she said, relishing the double entendre]! If that really IS a direct quotation from Matthew, I wonder how Christians can be friendly with me! Of course, Mel also thinks his wife is damned to hell for being Episcopalian, so what's a little damnation for me, too? I can get down with the Presbyterians, Methodists, and the Baptists! My rabbi has had nothing to say about this flick, but I know people whose rabbis have spoken about it. I will say that if this is a film about love and compassion, which is the ultimate message of the crucifiction, it will be the first time Gibson has made a movie about love and compassion.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:36 pm
Tish, now there's something I can agree with!
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:37 pm
King James version: 25: Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:40 pm
so who is US? I dont get it. How is some guy crucified on a cross about love and compassion? He was an anarchist who was punished.
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 7:45 pm
Sorry. It is from Pilate, I think, but the referent is unclear....see here: [24] When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. [25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. I'm sorry I don't know what happens in the second half, so I don't know whether Pilate was a Roman or a Jew or what. And are "the people" the ones who answer [in a singular voice] or is this Pilate speaking? Anyhow, it is my understanding that there is a lapse of a couple hundred years between the events and their written record. I have a friend who teaches the Bible so she probably knows, but I am not curious enough to ask her.
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