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Archive through January 10, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Archives: 2004 January - Arpil: "Ideal" place to live in the U.S.: Archive through January 10, 2004 users admin

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Eliz87

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well, it looks like it's going to happen...My husband and I are going to have to relocate our family out of Ohio. His place of work relocated to Portland at the end of 2002 and he has not been able to find work in his field since then around here. (He's been an electrical engineer in the heavy truck industry for 10+ years.) We've been trying NOT to relocate because of our families, but things are not looking any better here in N.E. Ohio.

Anyhow, we did spend last January & February in North Charleston, South Carolina, and we absolutely loved it, so there's always the option to move down there. Also, Virginia would be a good option because we'd still have the four seasons, yet be close to the beach, but have the scenic mountains, etc.

So... I thought I would post this thread to give you all a chance to brag about the places you live! Everyone on this board is spread out pretty good over the United States (and Canada, of course), and pretty much, we're open to just about anything although we'd like to stay East so we can get home in a hurry if need be. (Although San Francisco's nice as is Vegas, I suppose, but I'm not sure that there's any relevant work there for him either.)

Obviously we want to live somewhere that's relatively safe, and now that we have a little family growing, it's important that the educational system is good.

Do you love where you live and why, or do you have a place in mind that you would like to live if given the choice? (I know, I know...Hawaii or the Caribbean but those are not practical options at this moment!!)

Costacat

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
San Diego! (But you can go elsewhere, please! <wink>)

Seriously, I think the job situation in Portland is not that great right now. Their unemployment rates seem to be fairly high. It took a friend of mine who relocated a year and a half ago over a year to find a job (he's a software developer). The weather is another issue (have you seen the news lately?). But coming from Ohio, it's probably not as big an issue as it would be if you relo'd from San Diego.

Cost of living in Las Vegas is really low; the cost of living in San Francisco (and other areas in the Bay Area) is very VERY high. Our cost of living is more "average" however housing here is pretty much inaccessible to most "average" families. Salaries are lower than most other areas in California (we are about on a par with Washington DC), but our unemployment rate is really low. (Salaries are lower cause, well, we think it's cause employers think they don't need to pay us so much since, well, we live in Paradise!)

Remember, too, that you can get anywhere in the U.S. in about 6 hours (sooner if you get a nonstop)!

I don't know what the "heavy truck industry" is like, so I have no recommendations on what area in the States would be most advantageous to an electrical engineer. However, if electrical engineer translates to any industry, you really do have a lot of options.

That said... well, I say this in the nicest of possible ways... you don't want to move to San Diego! (We've grown way too fast and there are way too many "foreigners" here [by "foreigner" I mean someone who is NOT from California!]! <grin>)

Eliz87

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL Well, I'm not sure about San Diego, but I do know a bit of trivia from San Francisco -- If you live in San Francisco you are from "SF" and not from San Francisco. :-)

Treasure

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Just don't call it 'Frisco. I used to live there many years ago. "Frisco" caused many a ruffled feather.

Tabbyking

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
oh my heck....yes, we hated 'frisco!! but i don't recall saying "SF" rather than San Francisco. i think we said "San Fran", though!
let's see, where to live. not where i am. i dislike central california immensely. way too hot. unfortunately, the coastal or large-city areas cost too much.
i loved the san francisco--oakland areas because of the wonderful weather and low humidity. but it's very, very expensive.
boston has rude people in it (other than tvchrs) and it's windy and freezing or hot and muggy 11 months of the year! it's also very expensive.
i like idaho a lot. and oregon is one of the most beautiful states, but has some pretty weird folks, tvchers excluded, of course!
i love most of northern california (redding and eureka, etc.) there is a lot of building going on in redding, so i'll bet there are also jobs. you are less than an hour to mt. shasta (and heck, redding got a foot of snow in town two weeks ago!), 3 hours to the oregon border, 4 hours from reno or san francisco, 2.5 hours from sacramento. there are hills and lakes and many rivers.
i would probably pick the west because i cannot deal with humidity.

Tabbyking

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
i also spent 3 years in the bronx...and well,
'no thonx'! again, mostly the weather and in order to enjoy being near manhattan, you have to have more money than i did!

Urgrace

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:01 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hi Eliz, the trucking industry is growing in Texas. Austin is located in south central
Texas and was on the 'best places to live in the country' list last year.

Bad: You must be able to navigate your vehicle with the traffic in numerous situations from exceedingly fast to 0 mph. You have to be early if you want to get in. Good: Early is good.

Bad: You must not be afraid of bats. Good: They are your friends who get rid of all the mosquitoes and flying annoyances.

Good: No state income tax, good education and facilities, low unemployment, reasonable housing, (mean)average age of residents 38, four seasons with winter usually mild, plenty of recreation, leisure activities, cultural facilities, concerts, libraries, college, and is the state capital.

Bad: It is 24 hours driving time to NE Ohio Good: There is an airport with lower rates than the international airports

Bad: The trees are not huge hardwood maples, walnuts, or birch Good: There are lots of large live oak trees, rivers, lakes and springs

Bad: You are no longer close to Cedar Point Good: You are now close to the beautiful hill country, caverns, wildlife parks, museums, golf courses, Schlitterbahn (one of the largest water parks in the world), pro Hockey or minor league baseball, Sea World, Fiesta Texas (these in San Antonio),Six Flags, pro baseball or pro football in Houston or Dallas, NASCAR races or mud races, multi-plex theatres, and a short drive to the Gulf beach, the mountains, plains, desert, forests, canyons

Bad: You have to go to Dallas for the biggest selection of fashions Good: Shopping is a treat, from fashions to antiques

Bad: It's not home Good: You'll be near all your tvch Texas friends (just down the road a piece) and it is a nice place to make your home

Urgrace

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Tennessee has a lot of good things going for it too. The climate is mild and there are four seasons. Lots of recreation and I hear good education, housing, low unemployment, however, the roads can be covered with black ice (freezing rain) which is scary

Recommend that you do NOT move to:
Michigan - too many taxes on taxes, the roads are horrible, and drugs are prevelant even in the rural areas to school children ( we loved Michigan's beauty and I still have a lot of family there, but was glad to remove my children from the falling educational system)
Georgia - although this state is improving, they just can't seem to catch up with the rest of the country

Happymom

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I grew up in NE Ohio, moved to San Diego when we got married, moved to Sonoma County a few years later. I still really miss many relatives and friends from NE Ohio; however, I do not miss the weather at all. I used to laugh in San Diego when people would talk about how muggy it was there! They have no clue! Whenever I would travel back to Ohio from San Diego, I would love how green it was! I really don't miss Ohio though. It just has a certain feel about it that I'm happy to do w/o. That feel has nothing to do with the many people there that I miss dearly. Maybe it's people in general there...I just don't know. I feel that in general people here in Sonoma Co. are much friendlier than those in Ohio, just in general, just a general attitude.

San Diego was a fun place to live! Lots of places to play! I am glad that we didn't have children when we lived there...too big, too smoggy. To me, the San Diego area seems to have merged with Orange Co. and all the surrounding LA area into one big city except for the Marine Base near Oceanside. The entire area now seems like the world's largest city to me. But, I still would love to visit San Diego! Haven't been back in years (and I know it's grown a lot since then).

I really love this part of Ca. We pay the price, though. It's a good thing that we moved here and bought a house when we did. The Bay Area is beautiful but WAY too expensive. I just saw a woman on the news talking about possible tax increases (city tax) in Oakland. She said she just paid $500K for a dump and cannot afford any more taxes. Well, it may not be a "dump" in everyone's definitions, but it's probably a very small, plain, nothing-special-about-it house.

In our city, an elementary school has closed (created a big uproar) due mostly to declining enrollment. Families with small children just cannot afford to buy a house here (or anywhere in the Bay Area).

Anyway, Eliz87, good luck with your move to Portland. Maybe you'll find you don't miss Ohio so much after a while.

Eliz87

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Happymom, I so agree with you about the "feel" of this place. I've never lived anywhere else...BUT...when we spent those two months in South Carolina last year, I could NOT BELIEVE how much NICER people were there.

For instance, we went to a Hibachi steakhouse one night for dinner and had a couple next to us who actually wanted us to sit and talk with them after dinner was over with! We were absolutely baffled!!!! That would never happen here as people pretty much stick to themselves for some reason. Amazing.

Oh, and we don't really have any plans to move to Portland. That's just where my husband's company relocated to and we didn't want to go, so we thought we'd just give this area a "wait and see" approach since it's home. We're definitely looking for suggestions.

...And Gracie, thanks so much for the info on Texas! I have a cousin who lives in Arlington, which I think is somewhere around Houston, and they really like it, so that has been a consideration as well. Also, our niece's boyfriend is from Corpus Christi. It's interesting to hear that the trucking industry is growing there in Austin. (But I'm not really fond of bats!!) After the big blackout in August here, we also like that Texas has its own power grid! (And thanks, too, for the info on Michigan...He has gotten plenty of offers to move there and we've declined -- I'm glad we have!)

Is there anyone lurking who lives in the South (Carolinas, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc.) who has any input?

Urgrace

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 3:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sweetie, Arlington is smack dab in the middle of Fort Worth-Dallas (north central Tx)

If you don't like humidity don't move (to Houston or) near the coast off the Carolinas or Georgia. They also have no-see-ums and gnats galore. (Have you noticed I don't like bugs?) Also you don't want to live in hurricane alley.

Otherwise the Carolinas are very nice. I lived in South C and my parents and daughter have lived in North C. Maybe someone here can give you some stats.

Bats do not attack anything but bugs. It's a real good thing. No bugs! Seriously. You can drive through Texas without washing your windshield. You can drive over the Texas border and wash the bugs off your windshield every 50 miles. I've done it.

Babyruth

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 3:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Gee whiz, Gracie, you sure made some unkind generalizations about the state of Michigan. Sorry you lived in a disappointing area.
BTW, we have a fantastic governor now. :)

Texannie

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 4:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
The humidity isn't all that bad in Houston..you just go from your a/c house to your a/c car to your a/c office, school or mall. If you are out in the humidity, it's cause you want to be! LOL

Hippyt

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 4:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
And the humidity in Houston keeps out skin free of wrinkles!

Landi

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 4:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
i have lived in the San Francisco Bay Area (born and raised here) and you DO NOT call it frisco... it's just "the city".. such as... "do you live in the city?" or the famous Journey song "When the lights go down in the city" i would like to get out of the high costs of living here. personally i'd like to move to las vegas.

Jan

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Ontario is a great place to live with free health care,great education, strong gun control, low crime rates,not too far from Ohio, an increase in available jobs, lots of trucking, an improving dollar! Don't write Canada off too quickly :):)

Tess

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Landi, I was born and raised right in San Francisco (moved at age 24 to MN). I still call it "the city" and still cringe at the term "frisco" ack! Never felt like a Californian.

Max

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well, I think the determination of "best place" to live really varies based on what you think makes a place good. :)

I grew up in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California, lived in the SF Bay Area for a number of years (oh, btw, it's THE CITY, not SF or San Fran, or San Francisco, and certainly never Frisco ), and then moved to Portland, OR in '89.

I can't imagine living anywhere other than Portland (I love visiting other places, but I like it here). But, then, I don't have kids, so I don't have to worry about the school system (which has problems). The job market isn't great here, either, but I'm not sure where it IS good anymore (maybe if you move to India or China or Russia where Intel is hiring lots of folks for really cheap wages).

Things I love about Portland:
  • Green. We get lots of rain here and it keeps things very green and pretty. I like that. Never cared for the brown hills of the SF Bay Area in the summertime.
  • Seasons. I like seeing the leaves change to brilliant oranges and yellows, having winters that are clearly winter (even though the snow/ice storm of the last week has been a pain, it's not 'normal' weather for us), where spring brings the glorious bright green of new growth and splashes of color with beautiful flowers, and enjoying long summer days that stretch until 10:00pm at the height of the season and whose temperatures generally don't go much over 80F (although we do have our occasional hot segments).
  • Rainbows. Like I said, we get a lot of rain. But most of the time it's not a hard, driving rain; it's more like a drizzle. And in between, especially in the spring and fall, we get some of the MOST glorious rainbows I've ever seen. I never get enough of them.
  • Mountains and Beach. It takes about an hour to get from the city to either the mountains for skiing (almost year-round on Mt. Hood's glacier field) or to the beach. It's the best of all worlds.
  • Open spaces. We have an Urban Growth Boundary. From my house, I can drive for about 10 minutes and I'm pretty much in the middle of nothing. Okay, it's really in the middle of fields of nursery stock or oats or wheat or whatever, but it feels like nothing. Then, just a short drive away, I can be back in the city seeing an opera (not that I go) or hanging out at Starbucks or whatever.
  • Microbrews. If you like beer, we've got it in spades! There are probably more microbreweries in Portland than anywhere you'll ever go. Great beers year 'round. Yum.
  • Saturday Market and Pioneer Square. In downtown Portland is Pioneer Square, affectionately known as "Portland's Living Room." You can go there any time of year for great people-watching. At lunch time during the week, there are food cart vendors and office workers everywhere. Portland's downtown shopping is wonderful -- the malls haven't put our downtown out of business -- and of course, there's a Starbucks on just about every other corner. Saturday market runs from, I think, March through Christmas. It's set up next to the riverfront, mostly under the Burnside Bridge and is full of vendors selling hand-made items that vary from pottery to tie-dye to mobiles made from old silverware that's been twisted and formed into interesting patterns. Even if you don't buy anything, it's a great place to hang out and watch street musicians or just the people.
  • Beautiful views: Just about wherever you go in town, there are beautiful vistas to behold. You can visit the Japanese Gardens for serenity and breathtaking views of downtown skyscrapers against the backdrop of Mt. Hood. Or, head to the Rose Gardens for free and admire the variety of hybrid roses being grown and judged for beauty (again lots of nice views of Mt. Hood). You can drive for about 30 minutes to take in the spectacle of the Columbia Gorge with it's many waterfalls. Or, simply walk through any neighborhood and enjoy the canopy of trees, variety of styles of architecture, and city parks.
  • Powell's City of Books: If you are a book lover, you'll never find anything better than Powell's. It's the nation's largest independent book store and takes up a full city block downtown. There are new and used books as well as a coffee shop so you can grab a book and start reading before you decide whether to buy it or not. If you can't find it at Powell's, it probably doesn't exist! Want some technical books? Walk a couple of blocks away from the main store and there's another entire store devoted to those. Hungry for a cookbook? Head to the Hawthorne Street store which specializes in them! Getting ready to travel? Visit Powell's Travel store in Pioneer Square.

There's lots more to love, of course, but as I said in the beginning, what makes a place a home is truly dependent on what you are looking for. :)

Wherever you go, the most important thing that makes a location "home" is YOU and your family. When they say "home is where the heart is," they ain't just whistlin' Dixie! :)

Schoolmarm

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Eliz....if you have children that need to be in schools, PLEASE check out the literacy rate, and school reportcards. State by state you will find some SHOCKING differences. Unfortunately, many of the states with warm climates do not rank well overall in education. Be careful. If moving to Arkansas, Mississippi, Kentucky, Tennesee, Florida, etc....make sure that you are in an area with good schools. Rural areas usually do not fare very well, nor do urban areas. Try for a medium sized city OR nice suburb. OF COURSE there are exceptions, and many FINE schools in warm climates, but you need to be careful. I speak as an educator and a trainer of teachers. I was absolutely HORRIFIED at the state of schools in Indiana (that is, until I moved to rural Western Pennsylvania). The Indy suburban schools were top notch, but everything else was kind of dicey and it would be a crap shoot as to whether your children would get a decent education. I have found that education is taken very seriously in the upper midwest. As an education historian, there are some historical policy/philosophy reasons why....just as the poverty issue and rebuilding after the Civil War hampered educational progress in the South. Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Conn. and Mas. usually do very well on educational measures. Again, you could find a top ranked school in a bottom ranked state and vice verse.

I know nothing about California, except that some of their schools are still suffering from cuts back in the 80s and 90s, and one of the education propositions took all the music teachers out of the schools. They are getting them back for the most part, but most of the arts teachers I know in California are teaching happily in private schools. I don't think that I know ANYONE who teaches music or art in a California public school....hmmmm....they must be too busy to go to grad school or conferences!

Texas, basically, is its own country. BIG country. Many love it there. I'm not sure that I could handle the weather.

I know that Clark County (Las Vegas) schools are good, at least in the arts. They open a new school or two every month. It is the fastest growing school district in the US.

I'm facing a similar situation, as I am electing to look for another job. I am targeting specific types of jobs (teaching grad school, or being the administrator/coordinator of music education) OR by location, as my parents live in central Illinois and they are getting old. I would be most happy in a college or university that did NOT have open enrollment. I am tired of teaching 20 year olds who do not know how to put a noun and verb together....let alone even know what a quarter note is. I taught music at a higher level with my 3-5th graders in the inner city of Des Moines than I do with my elementary education majors. I am horrified at their lack of basic knowledge, and frankly, only about half of my current students would make it through the programs at any of the universities that I went to.

Minneapolis is my favorite city, especially in the summer. NYC is a close second, but I don't think I could ever afford to live there! I DID apply for a job at NYU, so....who knows!

Before committing to move....check out the things that are important to you, and see how close your new place is! I'm also looking to be closer than two hours to an airport, so that, yes, indeed, I COULD get to my parents in under 6 hours. Right now it takes 7, with most of that DRIVING to the airports and checking in early. I need to be in a more literate area. Some of my students think that I'm strange because I'm a woman and have a doctorate. I would like to be in an area where that is NOT strange! I also need to be closer than two hours to a major symphony, or at least a university orchestra that plays in tune. Oh, yeah, and educated, eligible bachelors. I also need a good church to go to, in my denomination, with a good pipe organ.

OK, so the things that are important to ME, are probably not important to anyone else.

Find out what is important to YOU and then find a place that matches.

I'm stuck in the hills of western PA because six years ago it was important for me to find a JOB that fit. This one fits....like a too tight glove. I've outgrown it and it's time to move on.

BABYRUTH.....can you enlighten me about the educational situation in Michigan? I was invited by the U of Michigan to apply for their job, and I would LOVE to teach there and live in Ann Arbor. Michigan State is also open. I was born in Jackson, but we moved before I started kindergarten so I don't remember much about Michigan.

Schoolmarm

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Shoot, Just read Max's post....Portland sounds great!

Tabbyking

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
well, i quit calling san fran 'the city' after living in new york and brookline, mass, where 'the city' meant THAT STATE'S BIG CITY! every time someone would say 'the city', i thought they meant san francisco! (my mom told me she felt the same way in evanston, illinois. when someone said 'the city', she thought of san francisco, when they meant chicago!)
before i ever lived outside of california, we would 'go up to the city' on special occasions, such as to be on the mayor art show or go to the fleischacker (sp?) zoo. then i lived in berkeley and commuted to children's hospital in san francisco for a couple of years.
i remember my dad actually cringing while listening to a giants' game years ago and an announcer saying "frisco". he relaxed and smiled when the other announcer jumped all over the first guy. all was right with the world, again :)
portland is very nice, but isn't there high unemployment?

Tabbyking

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
okay, if i had the money, here is my game plan:
atherton, california, most of the time; maine for the first two weeks of june; new hampshire for the last two weeks of september; lake george, new york, for the first two weeks of october; and christmas at mt. shasta.

Texannie

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 5:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Schoolmarm..which weather and in which part of Texas?? ;) coastal breezes with light humidity, desert heat, snow, no snow, seasons, no seasons, sunshine 90% of the time, rain, no rain, high winds, no wind??????????? LOL

Schoolmarm

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 8:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
You might notice from my posts that I like states with snow and cold climates (go figure!)....well, it's mainly the heat in the south that would do me in. I have dry skin anyway, and if I'm in the heat too long, I'm very uncomfortable. I also happen to be very sensitive to molds and other gunk that grows in most air conditioners. So the constant air conditioning in the southern states, while nice to keep cool, makes it close to impossible to breathe. Frankly, I haven't been south of Dallas (in Texas....I've been to Arizona, Mexico and Guatemala) and it was nice to have warm weather in November and March when I was there, but I thought that I was going to die in June and August! I LOVE the BBQ!!! There are good schools and GREAT music programs in Texas.

I also was taken aback at the male taxi drivers and bus drivers etc. calling the women "sugar" or "honey" and treating me as if I were a helpless little girl...I know that they think it is polite, but it grated on my "I am woman hear me roar" nerves. Maybe they would think that I'm strange being a female with a PhD...who knows! I am applying at SMU, so if any of you knows the "goods" on SMU, I'd love to hear it!

Love to visit there, though...I'd have to really think about living there. The job at SMU seems really great, and I've met really great people from Texas, so I'm throwing my hat into the ring.

I'm curious as to Tabby's choices! Do tell...those are unusual choices and times. I see a trend for New England fall leaves, and maybe skiing at Mt. Shasta. Why Atherton, California and Maine? Inquiring minds want to know!

Landi

Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 8:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
tabby, i think i'd pick either atherton, or hillsborough or where my dad lives alamo. i loved living in alamo. my folks bought there at the right time.