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Wargod
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:29 am
Tabby, I think it depends what school district you're in and the school year that they determine the age for admittance. Our cut off date is the first week or two of October (but our school year starts right after the fourth of July holiday.) Kota's birthday is Sept 14 and I really struggled with the decision to keep her out another year or send her this year. I'm certainly not an expert on eduction, but that bit about kids who are kept back having more trouble later has to be balogna! There's a couple kids in Kota's class who probably would have benefited from another year at home. They're being pushed to learn so hard in kindergarten that if they are not ready to go it becomes such a struggle and they get left behind by their peers who are ready. They expect kindergartners to be reading by the time they go to first grade, heck, they're learning addition facts now, in addition to begining science and history. While our school tries to teach in fun ways, it's still almost stressful. We have homework every night (30 minutes.) They work hard in class and they expect kids to master so many skills. At the begining of the year, we got a booklet of info on kindergarten. There was pages and pages of skills the kids had to master to complete kindergarten. I'll have to see if I can find it for you guys and share some of whats in it. I was shocked reading through it the first time, thinking there was no way they could learn all of this during kindergarten. Then of course, I saw the amount of work they do in class and at home and realized the reason they're getting kids to learn this much is because they are shoving it down their throats! Dakota is right where they expect her to be, but it makes me sad that kindergarten isn't about fingerpainting and learning social skills. My only advice is pretty much the same as everyone's here...go with your gut. You know your child best. If you really think that your child will do better with another year to mature and prepare, and you get the bonus of having them home for another year, go for it.
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:39 am
war, they (supposedly) changed the day from dec 2 to sept 1 about 2 or 3 years back, but only subtracted one month each year to 'ease into it'--they moved it to nov 1, and the next year, oct 1 and the next year sept 1. we should all be at september 1 in california starting this year, i believe. about 5 years ago, we also cut k through grade 3 down to 20 kids per class, not 32, so we could shove more stuff down their little gullets! the problem is we now have to have so many teachers that we aren't just getting people who really want to teach as teachers. we are getting anybody who has a college degree and has decided they want to teach for the benefits (holidays and weekends off, at least 3 months a year of vacation, etc.) and leave their other job behind. okay, i just came down because i forgot my water for the treadmill! tabby runs off again!
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Kaili
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:42 am
No, I don't think being older in class later on will make any difference- except that they will be the kid that has to drive all their friends around because they'll be the first one to drive. Well, assuming you let them That was a stupid thing for the article to say- I was looking more at the part where they listed similar skills to the ones in the list. I think the list is going more for the skills that they need ahead of time and I posted it because it says to be able to count to 10 and know some letters. I figured it seemed there was some fears about writing and so forth so it might be an indicator, in that regard, to readiness.
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:29 pm
in california, you can't drive your friends around for the first 6 months you have a license (you can only drive with someone age 25 or over who is also a licensed driver). by the time that 6 months has passed, most of the kids have their own licenses! if you get caught driving your friends around before your 6th month provisional licensing, you lose your license until you are 18. of course, i was just talking about this the other day in another topic...some of the kids don't go by the rules. i keep hoping they will get caught! bad tabby. but i believe rules, especially rules that should help keep our newly licensed drivers-- and others on the road while the newbies are out there--SAFE, should be followed.
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:39 pm
war, i looked up the age thing for california and they 'have not implemented the sept 1 date' due to budget costs. always money... so you are right that each district gets to pick their acceptance date now, with dec. 2 being the only common date (a child "must" be age 5 on or before dec 2). i stand corrected, war! i do believe our school district has backed up their dates, however, making sept 1 the last day to turn 5. i wonder if parents have to go by it, though, when the state is so wishy-washy! right now, our town is fighting because they are redrawing the school zones as we have a new school which will open this july. no one wants to move their child from a school they have attended for 3 or 4 years to go to this new school. we are so overcrowded, they cannot even guarantee your children will be on the same track as each other! i have a friend who has 3 sons and 2 are on track b and the other is on track d. so she never has them all home at the same time, which is horrid for vacations, etc. she always has at least one in school, except for christmas, easter and 4th of july holidays.
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Kaili
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:40 pm
We have the graduated licensing here too- the kids at the high school told me that it's never, never followed. The one kid told me that you "just get a few points knocked off". I think it's one of those secondary things like seatbelts where they can only ticket you if you're getting pulled over for something else. Otherwise, how would they know how old you are? Wow. That's off topic, eh? We went from 5 year olds and starting kintergarten to 16 year olds and starting to drive. 
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:41 pm
they grow up fast LOLOL
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Tabbyking
| Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:52 pm
kaili, on another thread, Lkunkel gave a link about an accident in las vegas with a bunch of teenagers involved. 2 of them died. the driver was unlicensed but dad had given her a car and knew she was driving it illegally. he should be prosecuted completely, but the daughter knew it was wrong, too. in interviews with the kids, many of them admitted to driving with only a permit or with nothing at all. i guess if your parents don't go by the rules, you won't either. totally sad. parents are always telling me i am too "'over protective' and 'everyone does it, you should let your kids'"...it just amazes me that these people are parents! and yes, many of their kids drink on the canals, find taking even one college class at the local junior college 'too hard', hold minimum wage jobs for parttime hours. not all, but most of the kids who went off to college or are taking full loads at the community college are from families who are 'responsible and law-abiding'. the same parents you always saw at back to school night, who bought books at the book fairs, who volunteered for room mother or father, etc., who backed the teachers and law enforcement officers. it's true in my experience, anyway, that when parents aren't involved in any aspect of their child's life, they aren't concerned about mere laws, either.
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Bookworm
| Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 4:48 am
What an interesting topic, and it is one I have some input about... I have a BA in elem educ and my specialty areas are reading and early childhood educ. I teach at a Head Start (preschool) program in Iowa. I live in a small town (about 5000 people). We (preschool teachers) work closely with the kindergarten teachers here. One thing that immediately came to mind as a teacher is that schools are different than they were when we were kids. The current issue in the minds of many teachers right now is this 'no child left behind' business. Since I can really only speak about it from a preschool teacher's perspective, I will suggest you research that on your own. For me, it means that in order for my (federally funded) program to continue to receive funding we must meet certain outcomes. Part of this is letter recognition, rhyming, phonological awareness stuff, but there are also outcomes regarding math, science, motor, social skills. Our program used to focus almost entirely on social skills, now I would say that is 60% of the program. (I guess I should state that we serve mostly low-income families and that in many cases--not all-- that means my kids are behind many of their peers in social as well as academic skills.) Our school district's kindergarten used to focus mostly on teaching the letters of the alphabet along with social skills. They are now required to teach many things that used to be covered in first grade. So we are asked to teach more of those things that used to be taught in kindergarten. Let me say that for the most part, the teachers I have worked with care about what is best for children and are very caring and compentent teachers. We are resistant about the way things are going, but these decisions are made by the government. 'No child left behind' is a federal deal. School districts and the state departments that fund them are feeling the same pressure that my program is to comply with the program or lose money. I believe children can be taught some early literacy/math/science/etc. skills if they are taught in a developmentally appropriate manner. But I also believe that the importance of social skills are being neglected by the government. I work with many children who are lacking in this area and I don't think it is entirely a characteristic of low income, though there is no doubt that is part of it. Parents, and society in general, don't place the importance on manners and social skills that they used to and this will be (and is) detrimental to these children as they grow into adults. I know there was more I wanted to say from the teacher perspective, but it isn't even 5:00 here and I can't remember what else I had to contribute. I find this topic interesting from the perspective of a parent as well. Braedon will be 3 in August and I am still debating about sending him to preschool next year or wait, thinking ahead about what we will do in two years as far as kindergarten is concerned. Each state is different as far as age cut off dates. In Iowa, the magic date has been Sept 15 since before I was in kindergarten. Iowa is different from every other state as we leave it up to individual school districts to decide what should be taught when (and how). I believe every other state decides this on a state level. In other words, every second grade in Virginia will teach facts x and y in March. (Now I have never lived in or taught in another state, so correct me if I am wrong.) Many outside of Iowa believe that this (leaving it up to the school districts) is a negative thing, but I believe it gives teachers a little more say in how they do their job. Iowa ranks near the top in our test scores, so this system seems to be working for us. My school district, along with nearly every other rural school district in this area, has a full day kindergarten because we cannot afford to run the buses twice. However, kindergartners here do have three recesses along with free play and rest time, so it is not (yet) a full day of structure. Hopefully it will never be a full day of structure, that is not developmentally appropriate. Teaching is a very rewarding career emotionally. It is not terribly rewarding financially. The 'perks' of summers and weekends off, shorter working days, etc. are not really perks for those of us in the profession. This could be a debate for another thread, so I won't delve into it here. Suffice it to say 90% of the teachers I know take work home with them almost every night. I am paid by the hour, so my summers off mean that I am without a paycheck unless I secure another job. Many salaried teachers also secure a second job to make ends meet. Many also work to prepare materials and their classroom for the upcoming year. We are also required to take courses to keep our license current, and in most cases this is done in the summer. I have never met a teacher who did not purchase something for their classroom out of their own pocket because the funds were not available. Teaching is one of the most important professions, and many times,it doesn't get the respect that it deserves. Geesh, I am getting way off topic here. My advice is to research your local school districts. Visit classrooms. Talk to teachers and parents. Many schools will be able to give you their own list of expectations of incoming kindergartners. Many will recommend a preschool experience prior to kindergarten. Many kindergarten teachers will recommend that you hold your child back if you are in doubt, especially if they have a summer birthday. I am going to stop typing now. I hope this post makes sense because I am not going to reread it. I have got to go back to sleep. This brief check of the board has turned into a two hour thing. My boys will be up soon. Good night or good morning... 
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Carrie92
| Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 9:06 am
My son is in K this year at age 6. He turned 6 in August. Some people say we "held him back", but I disagree. He did preschool at age 4. We have a Young 5's (pre K) program in our schools so he did that last year. Next year he will be 7 starting first grade. Our decision was made based on his early social skills - he is a very social child, but he is an only child, so we felt that preschool was more of a chance for him to get used to a classroom setting and get used to the idea that other kids have needs too. Also, we thought it best for his future both academically and athletically (if he chooses athletics). He will still be 18 when he graduates. I am very happy with our decision. The world is a different place than it was when we were kids. Our kids are going to need a lot more guidance. I feel that the more education they have in their early years, the better. Right now I feel like I will be able to talk with my son about what is going on in the world, rather than worry about his academic life. 9/11 happened on my son's first day of preschool and of course people were talking about it everywhere. So, I had to talk to my son about bad guys and buildings falling down on his first day of school.
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