Archive through December 08, 2003
MoveCloseDeleteAdmin

TV ClubHouse: Archive: Anyone NOT recognize Santa in your Christmas celebration?: Archive through December 08, 2003

Joesmom

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, Ok, I know this is Crazy....but my hubby and I want our son to celebrate Cristmas as the birth of Jesus. Now, we still do presents and have a tree, but have chosen to not do the whole "Santa" thing. This hasn't been an issue with us until now. My son turned 4 in September and really knows about Santa now, from preschool and church and TV. I don't wanna say "There's no Santa Claus", cause I don't want him being the kid at school telling the other kids!! He says things like "Santa's coming to our house" and things like that, and I just sorta "hmmm."

Now, we don't think Santa is evil or anything crazy like that. I grew up with Santa. We just want the emphasis on the birth of Christ and on giving and good will.

Does anyone here not "do Santa"? If so, how do/did you deal with that at this tender age?

Midlifer

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Joesmom,

We maintained a "balance" between Santa and the real meaning. We actually called Santa His helper who does nice things. I just don't believe in "extremes" (we're not doing this, or not doing that) because it tends to set your children apart from their peers, which can be traumatizing. I have 2 daughters (20 and 24) who are well adjusted about Christmas and it's meaning. Does that help?

Reader234

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'll start off by saying, "you get to decide". Strong Christian friends of ours -- I admire and respect for their stand on several holidays.

I grew up loving Santa, I found out in high school that a friend of my father's at work was "the Santa Claus" and came to our house one year when we were in a car accident, he posed as Santa at each Company christmas party. I actually have stronger religious background than my parents, in high school I convinced my dad to be baptized... among other things!! Go ahead, say it, I was a rootin tootin Jesus Freak!! LOL

However, because Santa has a place in my childhood heart, I chose to include Santa. My favorite ornament is Santa kneeling at the baby Jesus' manger, hat off, head bent. There is a book that goes along with the ornament, and it is sold at Lemstones or Zondervans at the mall's Christian bookstore. I believe Santa embodies the spirit of the season, and Jesus is the reason for the season, so I try and raise my kids with those principals. we do midnight mass, and advent wreaths. We celebrate 12th night. And I always tell the story of Hannukah, as I believe Jesus celebrated the Jewish faith...

I'm sure there are others with different views, and I look forward to reading about them also!!

Julieboo

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 09:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I too, have a four year old and this is the first Christmas he "gets" Santa, etc. I too want to emphasize that Christamas is Baby Jesus' birthday. I don't really have any comment but I do look forward to hearing others' comments or suggestions.

Eliz87

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Mid & Reader -- a balance can be found. While I will teach my children that "Jesus is the reason for the season", do the church thing, nativity, etc., Santa adds a bit of magic and mystery (and FUN!) to the festivities, and I don't think that any child should be without wonderful memories of "Santa" when he or she becomes an adult.

Wargod

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
We celebrate both Santa and Jesus. Like Reader, I believe that Santa is the spirit of Christmas and Jesus is the resaon for the season.

I have an "adopted" cousin. He and his wife have chosen to tell their children the truth of Santa. When their daughter celebrated her first Christmas they decided they didn't want to ever lie to her and they felt by continuing the Santa myth that was what they'd be doing. She's 5 or 6 now, her brother is a little under a year, and she has never told another child what she knows. Her parents explained early on why they were telling her the truth, and also explained why other parents chose to celebrate Christmas while including Santa. And in terms a young child could understand they explained why she shouldn't tell her friends and cousins. She really doesn't feel like she's missing much, and she kind of enjoys being in on a big secret none of the other children she knows is in on yet.

The best advice I can give works in most situations. Just follow your heart. Sit down with him and explain it to him in a way he can understand, let him know why you chose to focus on Jesus and not celebrate with Santa and why other families chose to celebrate with both. He's still young, so you may have to remind him a few times though. Good luck!

Brenda1966

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why the need to exclude Santa? If your child is taught about the nativity and grows up learning that, he will know the "true" meaning of Christmas.

Santa is fun. Being someones "secret Santa" is all about giving and surprising someone and making them feel special. I think that by excluding Santa you're setting yourself up for a battle that doesn't need to be fought. They're only little for such a short while -- why exclude the magic of Santa? Your child is too young to recognize the commercialism of Christmas -- let him have a little fun while he's still innocent.

Sorry I'm not answering your question. I just can't imagine taking Santa out of the holidays. It makes ME want to cry.

Brenda1966

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have to address the Santa myth and lying. I don't think it is necessary to lie to kids about Santa. I also don't think it's necessary to sit down a 3 year old and tell them "Santa does not exist!"

Kids will learn the Santa myth from peers, daycare, songs, wherever, even if the parent's don't read the story to them. Most will believe, just like they believe in monsters and and other fairy tales. Most kids don't believe you when you tell them monsters don't exist anyway. If their friends say Santa exists and brought them presents, they'll believe.

When kids get a bit older, grade school, they'll figure it out on their own. I was never told Santa didn't exist. I started asking questions and the response I got was "What do you think?" I was able to reason that Santa was a "story". No hard feelins, just a lot of LOVE for Santa to this day.

Eliz87

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I guess it can be looked at both ways. I have an ex-fiancee (emphasis on EX) who swore that he would never tell our children of Santa if we ever had any together. This caused a huge argument between us because I really don't see the harm. But he felt bitter that he was lied to as a child, and still hasn't let go of it in his adulthood. He felt the same way about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. He actually didn't even believe in Christmas trees because they're an old Pagan symbol. Then again, well, he's an idiot and therefore he is gone. ;-) No fun at all, that man.

But still...really...I don't see any harm in the idea of Santa Claus as long as it adds to and doesn't take away from your religious practices. Children will have the rest of their lives to be serious.

The whole process...writing a list for Santa, leaving out cookies and milk (and carrots for the reindeer depending on how involved you want to get) and then waking up Christmas morning...How absolutely wondrous to find that a person you've never met left those presents just for YOU!!!

Urgrace

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
All well said, and just remember to teach the little ones the true meaning of Christ's birth and what giving is all about.

Midlifer

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Exactly, Eliz. I can still clearly remember going to Midnight Mass, being so awed by the religious aspect of Christmas, then coming home, going to bed, and (once) I actually thought I SAW Santa as I stared down the hall into my living room. What magic!

There is room for both.

What's more important is not emphasizing STUFF and GIFTS more than Santa.

Texannie

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
We do both in our home. The kids know Santa as "fun", but they also know the reason we celebrate Christmas. We have nativities next to our stockings. We go to church. On Christmas day, we have a birthday cake for the baby Jesus and sing Happy Birthday to him. I think you can have both.

Marysafan

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I know this is going to seem "odd" to some of you...and I don't know exactly how it happened...just that somehow it did, but Santa became a very minor player in our Christmas.

My oldest daughter was born in 1971, while my husband was in the Navy. Six weeks later my husband was deployed on Med cruise. He returned the week before Christmas...so from the very beginning it wasn't about Santa coming...it was about Daddy coming home.

The next three years, my husband was overseas and I took my daughter back home to spend the holidays with our families splitting the time between my family and my in-laws.

When my youngest daughter was born, my in-laws flew out to San Diego to spend the holidays with us...and the following year...we (ALL FOUR) flew home for the holidays.

So, the pattern had been set. Christmas was about the family being together...and oh yeah...that Santa guy...well, he's okay...but being with Grandma and Grandpa and the rest of the family was the best!!

Now my girls are grown, but still, Christmas to them is all about being together as a family (just that now hubby and I are Grandma and Grandpa). We play games and tell stories, and everyone pitches in with the "chores" and the cooking, so that we will have more time to spend together. We have a Christmas puzzle called "The Christmas House", that we do and have a great time sitting around the table putting it together. My girls have always pretended this was our house and the people were all relatives!

We have had our fair share of negative experiences with churches...being "outsiders" so we keep the spiritual side of things at home. I don't know if we have done the right thing...but we taught the girls to have a private personal relationship with God rather than a public one. So while we don't venture out to church anymore like we used to, we feel God is with us...and we are with him...in our home. If as the bible says, "God is love"...then he is here with us.

So, my thinking is "Santa" is okay...but give him a minor role...that way the children won't be so disappointed when they learn the truth...or feel that they "need" him...to be happy at Christmas.

Midlifer

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good points, Mary...but the "family" aspect really is a reflection of "love", which is still how I think of Jesus and Santa, so you're really not that far off the mark! Family/love should be a huge part of Christmas, and it sounds like you're doing that. Nice!

Legalboxer

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with what Marysfan said about Christmas being about family- that was what it was about for me as well. and I totally believe in what Wargod said about
"The best advice I can give works in most situations. Just follow your heart. Sit down with him and explain it to him in a way he can understand,"

I can only talk as a person who did NOT grow up ever believing in Santa. It was a combo of my parents never lying to me about anything and my mom being very religious, and I never once believed in Santa. Of course along the way, I quickly learned about the Christmas traditions, but I always knew what Christmas was really about. At the same time, I never told another kid that Santa didn’t exist- I don’t know why I never told them, maybe because I also had picked up on the fact that other kids needed to find out the truth on their own time. I guess my point is, do what you think is best, but it doesn’t necessarily hurt a kid to let them know the truth from the beginning- I fully appreciate Santa as an adult, and though I joke with my mom about denying me those childhood fantasies, I also know I never wanted anything less than complete honestly from my parents.

Zachsmom

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think as long as the emphisis is "giving" and not recieving, then it doesn't matter whether you include Santa or Jesus.

If all you state is "Santa brings you presents" then you are really doing a diservice to what the original St.Nicholas was.

Even as a child Nicholas was generous and wanted to please God. His father was a wealthy merchant and being given so much Nicholas had a strong desire to give to others.

That's what the season is about, giving to others.

Wargod

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
There's so many ways for people to celebrate, that none of them are wrong. My cousin has his beliefs and we have ours, and we respect each others ideas. His children have learned the joy and spirit of Christmas along with the reason we celebrate, just as mine have. No matter how your family decides to celebrate, they can still learn the same lessons and have the same joy as those who celebrate different. Santa is fun, but for those who celebrate without him, there are still other fun things about the holidays. Family and friends, get togethers, reading, singing, watching movies....you can do all that stuff together rather you celebrate Santa or not.

Tabbyking

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
kids are pretty smart. my son told me when he was 3 or 4 that 'all the santas must just all be present-helpers' when he saw an african-american female santa at a mall, an elderly gentlemen at his preschool who's unusual wedding ring ds recognized as the one the donut shop owner wore, and seeing one at each end of a mall in about 5 minute's time. he was quite the same at disneyland--"is this the real mickey mouse or the 'helper mouse'? because i know he can't be here and at disneyworld at the same time!" i had never thought a 4-year-old would think of that. i certainly hadn't! :)...i would have never thought of it at all til my niece played Buzz Lightyear and the bear from the Jungle Book at disneyland one year, that a little kid would know they weren't the 'real' characters.

i think if kids know that santa brings 'birthday' presents to have all the kids help celebrate Jesus' birth might be one way to go.

we knew a family who just flat out told their kids 'there is no santa' from the get-go, which was fine in their household, but all the kids went to their various preschools and elementary schools and told all the other little kids there was no santa and 'our parents wouldn't lie about it', so many children were hurt and disappointed because two of the kids presented it as any kids' parents who told them there was a santa were 'liars'. one little boy thought about it for about a millisecond and just said, 'well, santa comes to my house because i believe in him. your parents give you presents because you don't believe in santa. we both get presents.' that's 5-year-old logic for you!

Djgirl

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Our Christmas's were spent at my grandparent's house, and we loved going to bed and waking up in the morning only to find that Santa had actually known we were going to be there.

I don't feel bad at all that I was "lied" to as a child - I felt it was magical, and special, and mindboggling.

On my third Christmas, so really, the first one that I knew what was going on at, my parents had a 3 year old (me!) and a 1 year old (my brother). My mom stayed home with us, so there wasn't a lot of money for the "extras", Christmas toys included. My uncle didn't want us to be missed or have a thin Christmas, so he went out and bought us some really nice toys, wrapped them up, put them under the tree from Santa before we had arrived at my grandparents. Since I couldn't read yet, that was fine, but he didn't want my mom to find out. Her pride was at stake, and he didn't want her to feel down because she couldn't afford these things for her own kids. She figured it out from the writing on the cards. To this day, she says that it's one of the best Christmas's she's ever had.

Not1worry

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 01:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Our family doesn't acknowledge any of the pretend holiday figures, not the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy and of course not Santa.

We have several reasons. My husband's comment when the kids were tiny was that "I don't want some imaginary guy getting credit for presents that I picked out!" We also wanted the focus to be on the birth of Christ. I didn't feel we could keep Jesus more important than Santa with the way Santa is so omnipresent in the season. I don't feel I'm depriving the kids of any magic or mystery of the holiday. Trust me, they are plenty excited about it all.

I do think there's a difficulty in asking my kids to believe in some all-knowing, all-seeing, all-giving figure and then a few years later admitting it was not true. How will I expect them to believe that what I've said about God is true? Yes, they will come to their beliefs about God on their own as they grow, but it's my responsibility as a Christian parent to make sure they are trained up according to Biblical beliefs.

We do have Santa as part of our holiday, but as a historical figure who modeled the generosity and celebration that should be the cornerstone of gift giving. My son is almost 8 and this year expressed relief to me that we don't do Santa.

I was super vigilant to make sure my kids didn't spill the beans to any others who believed in Santa. We never said anyone lied, just that different families believe different things and it's not our place to "correct" them.

Plenty of my Christian acquaintances think we're wacko for not doing Halloween or Santa, etc. I don't go around spouting off about demons and idols. It's a choice made through prayer and what we felt was right for our home.

Ocean_Islands

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I know many people who have bitter feelings about the Santa lie. Why parents have a need to lie to their children about 'Santa' is beyond me. Santa is a cute story, but that's all it is, and trying to make it 'real' is wrong. Christmas can be magical without Santa.

Most of these people who feel bitter about being lied to by their parents are actually feeling bitter and angry at their parents for lying about other things, too -- and the Santa one is just the prime example.

I'm always amazed at how people have fond memories of being lied to about Santa and calling it 'magical.' That particularly gets my 'goat.'

How would you feel if your parents told you that Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny was a real person? I'm grateful my parents never told me Santa, Mickey Mouse, or Bugs Bunny were real or had to deal with the disappointment when I found out they weren't.

Now before I get off my soap box let me just add that Santa became popular in order to sell merchandise -- what would the retailers do if we didn't have to buy tons of gifts for people? It's an increase in commercialism that will never hold true meaning for anyone except shop keepers ringing cash registers.

Santa has only been around for 125 years or so, before that Americans didn't celebrate Christmas much and in fact George Washington banned the celebration of Christmas.

I suppose this all sounds very Scrooge like, but I do like Christmas and if gift giving and commercialism is de-emphasized in the experience, I think it can be a wonderful and magical time for all.

Maris

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ocean I have to step in here. Everyone has their own views and for me I never saw it as telling my kid a lie. He is well beyond the years of believing in Santa now and he has managed to weather the evil deception pretty well.

When he was about three his cousin told him there was no Santa and he was told by many others there was no Santa but he chose to continue to believe till he was 9. He said it was more fun to believe. I think that for little ones there is something magical about being able to totally believe in something so outlandish as a guy on a sled flying around the whole world at the same time and dropping little toys for children. It is about magic and believing in magic while you can. It also saved my bacon when I needed to get rid of the pacifiers because we gave them to Santa to give to all those new babies that would need them.

So I guess I am getting your goat, it was a magical time for my child and he loved it. When he was little I left a sleighbell on his bed and he was trilled that Santa left him a bell just like in the story book the Polar Express. Santa's bell sits on our christmas tree now and he still makes sure that Santa's bell is on the tree.

We also had the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny and all those other lies too. What is wrong with keeping kids away from the real world for a while?

Tabbyking

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i never thought of it as a 'lie' when i was a kid. we went to mass every sunday and every first friday and parochial school 40 weeks a year and we knew the difference between 'baby Jesus and the holiday miracle', and Santa.
whoever told their kids santa was a 'real person'? if i had thought the easter bunny was 6 feet tall i would have been terrified! they were just 'fun' around our house; 'magical' (beings) as some other posters mentioned.
i don't know anyone who feels 'bitter' for having believed the lies their parents....blah blah. how sad that you do! how did this get blown up into adults who are bitter and santa was the tip of the lying iceberg?! LOL

Brenda1966

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm with you Maris. I wasn't directly told "Santa is real and if you aren't good you aren't getting any presents!" I was told the story and saw it on TV and chose to believe.

I fully agree with Ocean that kids who are mad about the lie were lied to over and over by their parents and "tricked" by them. Believing in Santa is not about tricking your kids IMO. I think if little kids want to believe in Santa or the tooth fairy or unicorns, that to callously tell them it's a "lie" is not necessary. You can tell them they are "stories" and the kids will eventually understand they are not real.

Karuuna

Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Interestingly enough, I had a friend tell me the other day she was thrilled to find out her parents were really "Santa" because she was pleasantly surprised to learn that her parents were the ones picking out the presents with her in mind. She said it was just another way to learn how much they cared about her.

I think it's the context of the family that matters. If that is a negative context, viewing the Santa story as a betrayal is because of the other negativity. If the family experience is overall positive, then the Santa story is another pleasant memory.

I've never heard anyone say, "my parents were perfect in just about every other way, but I never trusted them again because I found out they made up the Santa thing."

Just my two cents. :)