Archive through November 02, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Cyber Romance - Is It Cheating?: Archive through November 02, 2003

Gidget

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 12:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I've been doing some research on cyber-sex in relation to a book I am working on. To be honest, a personal experience sparked the idea. At the time I felt a online flirtation was a harmless diversion. I still do not feel guilty but I also would not do it again. What started out as friendly conversation which moved to flirting and then more explicit conversation actually became frightening enough to cure me for good.

Since then I have only been able to discuss this with one other person with whom I am able to be completely frank and who is net experienced. I was surprised that she thought it was cheating. Apparently so do many pundits who are writing on the net.

But most of the articles I have read deal with cyber-sex chat rooms. Places you log into for the express intention of "talking" to someone else for the purpose of self gratification. And along with that topic, people who become addicted to the activity and invest more time in their cyber lives than their real lives.

What I am interested in is friendships that grow beyond friendship. And this would primarily only apply to people in commited relationships. Two single people who meet on the net and take the relationship to an intimate level or offline can not be cheating anyone.

I was talking to someone at TVCH about this earlier and she indicated this topic had already been discussed but also thought it had been a while and that there are a lot of new members on the board.

Thoughts?

Llkoolaid

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 01:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
As long it is on the net it is no more cheating than fantasizing that your partner is someone else. Who hasn't done that. But I don't get this cyber sex stuff, it takes a little more than my fingers on a keyboard to get me off.lol

Mak1

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 02:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
FWIW, Dr. Phil told a woman on his show that (paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words) if you are typing something intimate to a man that you wouldn't type if your husband was looking over your shoulder, you are cheating.

Gidget

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 05:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Apparently Llkoolaid, a big part of sex plays in the brain as well as the body.

Mak1, Dr. Phil's opinion seems to be the predominant one. I have seen other opinions that go as far as saying if there is no exchange of bodily fluids there is no cheating.

Cyber sex is considered different than fantasizing about someone else (ie a movie star) because the movie star is nothing more than an object. With cyber there is give and take between two people. A sharing of minds that has not existed before. This is new territory and there are no easy answers.

I think the Dr. Phils of the world are taking the stance that they are because of the potentially damaging aspects of cyber. I know a woman who blew off a 15 year marriage. Went to England to be with her new cyber love. He kicked her out in 3 weeks and she is back home now. It was really messed up.

Perhaps instead of trying to make people feel guilty the Dr. Phils of the world should be helping people recognize the reality of cyber and help them set boundaries.

For example, to me if you are chatting with someone you have never seen you don't really know them. It is nothing more than a fantasy. Put a picture to the name and the stakes just got a whole lot higher.

Unless you have been there it may not be possible for you to discern the subtle difference involved but it is just one guideline or level that should be considered.

In fact, I will try to think of levels and post them. I realize not everyone will be willing to talk about something like this but even if you aren't talking about it, if you are spending time online you should at least know it is out there and have a plan of how you will handle it if it comes your way.

Secretsmile

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 05:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'll weigh in on this one Gidget. My husband and I used to chat in a forum called parent's chat. We got to feel comfortable with a lot of people in that chat and even met several of them. What else was happening in there, was there were many 'cyber hook ups'. It wasn't there on the surface but most of the chatters had an on line relationship along with their real life relationships. It took less than a year for us to see families broken up and friendships severed due to these on line relationships. None of the on line love affairs lasted more than a few weeks. We thought to meet couples with children and family values, we found ourselves in the middle of messy breakups that we honestly didn't realize were happening ahead of time.

It taught me a lesson, my most important relationships were facing the opposite direction, not towards the monitor and neither my husband nor I entertain ourselves at the computer if the other is available to spend time with.

From my view, it is cheating if you are giving something to the other chatter, that you should be giving to your SO, be it attention or affection. Fantasies in the traditional sense don't steal time from real life people, on line relationships do.

Y2krazy

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 06:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I've been in some chat rooms, not many though. The one thought I've always had...what if my son or husband walked in and looked over my shoulder...would I be upset or worried about what they could read...so I've never had a problem...I won't stay in the chat gets uncomfortable to me and I would never say anything on-line or in real life that might upset my hubby or son. I always want to keep their love, trust and respect-bottomline.

Gidget

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 06:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Secretsmile. I think the fact that you were chatting on what one would on the surface would think was a family oriented board is a very good example for the uninitiated with this subject. It is popping up all over not just on the x-rated sites. And I think it is a very good illustration of the need for knowledge about this not psycho babble. I'd be willing to bet if many of those chatters had realized what they were getting into, they would have stayed away.

And the fact that fantasy based relationships just don't usually have the substance for the long haul is another good warning.

But to your point of giving time to a chatter vs your SO I will ask the question, do you feel the same way if someone gives more to their job than their family or a hobby or the TV. etc. I agree that being online can take someone away from RL and the people who really matter. But so can a lot of other things. Are they cheating, too?

And as to fantasies, "lusting in one's heart" is apparently socially acceptable. I have never been able to be with my SO while imagining him to be someone else. I adore him just the way he is. On the other hand, if he isn't around and Mel is on the tube well... LOL. And just because I have not taken time from my SO am I really innocent if I am thinking about someone else? I know people who would say No.

Gidget

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 06:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Just wanted to say hi to Y2krazy, haven't seen you before.

Sia

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 09:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hello, Gidget. I feel that engaging in cyber-romance is definitely cheating; so is calling 900-numbers for phone-sex. I also am of the opinion that looking at pornography, whether it's a printed magazine, on-line at still pics or at nude people via a web-cam is cheating.

Ginger1218

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 09:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I absolutely think it is cheating. Cheating is not only the physical aspect, but the mental and emotional aspect of sharing intimacies with somebody else.

And Gidget, I don't agree with the statement that online relationships don't have substance for the long haul. I have seen marriages break up, and people run away together from online flirtations turning into cyberromance and cybersex and then getting more serious.

Getting into someone's mind is more dangerous than getting into their pants. LOL

Cathie

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 09:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I wasn't sure if I had an opinion about this until I looked at it from the other perspective. If I were to read over my hubby's shoulder and see that he was engaged in a cyber romance I would certainly feel betrayed and cheated of his attention and affection.

Hippyt

Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 11:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ya lost me when ya mentioned Dr.Phil.

Twinkie

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 04:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Shut up, hippy. LOL

IMO if you are typing something you wouldn't want your spouse/SO seeing then it can't be good. I've been around the net in chats of all kinds for many years now and I have seen many cases of cyber infatuation and most never turned out good. Especially if one or both of the cyberlovers are married. It usually turns out the way most real life cases do. If they would cheat on their spouse with you why wouldn't they cheat on you with someone else? Now that is not always the case but it is the norm. If I were to peek over my hubby's shoulder while he was at the computer and found him sharing an intimacy of any kind with another woman I would be very hurt. Therefore I wouldn't do that to him. Its all about not only love but respect.

Gidget

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 05:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hippyt, dish girl. Do you have a problem with Dr. Phil? Not being into daytime TV I have only caught a few minutes of his schtick here and there. Thought he was mostly harmless.

Ginger1218 I didn't mean to imply that cyber romance never succeeds. I do know one person online who got divorced from a lukewarm marriage and married her cyber guy. That was about 7 years ago and they are still together. And you are so right about getting into someone's mind. There are a lot of scary people out there. And most of them look/sound normal on the surface.

Cathie and Twinkie you make a good point but I agree more with Sia. In for a penny, in for a pound. I can't separate one type of betrayal as more heinous than another. This experience has really opened my eyes and my mind.

Mak1

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 06:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lol...I knew it was risky to post Dr. P's name with his opinion. I know some people who are big fans of his advice and others who think he's not much more than a quack.

In my opinion, it is cheating.

Daydreamer

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 07:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, I'm single, but I agree with the point mentioned that if you are typing something you wouldn't want your SO to see, it's wrong. I also feel that if someone were to make an emotional connection with someone on the net and share intimate feelings, even if they have never met it could be considered cheating. In many cases, these types of things don't stop there, many of these people meet in person and one thing leads to another, which can cause a lot of problems.

Let me tell you a story about something that happened to me, I was on the receiving end of a cheating spouse but I didn't know it at the time.
I used to visit this South Florida chat room.
I met a guy, he was really nice, we used to chat and e mail all the time and then we started talking on the phone. He told me he had just broken up with his girlfriend (might have been true - but he never mentioned he had a wife). He owned his own business which was literally 5 minutes from my house and he lived about 10 minutes away. After talking to him for a while and deciding that he seemed normal, I agreed to meet him. We met for a drink and he was really good looking and I was very pleased. Not long after, we started dating. I never even thought he might be married. See, he was in real estate and he worked all kinds of odd hours and he owned several homes and condos. I was able to call him, leave him messages and talk to him all the time. We would go out until 2 or 3 in the morning so nothing seemed suspicious. We had been seeing each other for maybe 9 months or more and one night I went grocery shopping. I was walking down one of the aisles and I saw him, but he had a cart with a little girl in it. Next thing I see is a woman walk up and put something in the cart. I was shocked to say the least, but he actually said hello to me. He introduced me to his WIFE and told her I was a friend. I could barely speak and I had to hold my composure until I could get out of that store. I was devasted.
He continued to call me and he tried telling me that he was in an unhappy marriage and he wanted a divorce but he was afraid she would take all his money. Well, they didn't seem unhappy when I saw them together. I never saw him again, even though he tried. This all happened about 3 years ago and seriously, I never got over it. I was really falling for that guy and I was destroyed. He came by my house not long ago and left his business card in my mail box with a note to call him but I never did. It still hurts to think about it.

Anyway, I know that is way off track with what your question was, but I just wanted to share that story to give you an idea of what can happen. Here I was, innocently seeing this guy and he was deceiving me, and it all started in a chat room. I just wanted to make the point that some bad things can come out of something that starts innocently.

Whit4you

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well - I've had many many married friends who've gotten involved in an online romantic relationship. This has often lead to a divorce. I personally don't feel that if I had a hubby who spent an hour or two with a complete stranger (he met that day in a chat room for example) to have 'cybersex' - that I'd concider it cheating. But without a doubt if he were spending alot of time with one woman here and getting involved emotionally, that to me would definately be cheating. If you are sharing something with someone besides your hubby that you absolutely don't want him to know aobut, than it's cheating.

Just my 2 cents.

Secretsmile

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gidget, my answer to your question about if jobs, hobbies and other friendships are considered cheating has a simple enough answer. NO, LOL, in a healthy relationship none of those things takes away from the intimacy of the marriage. We tend to talk openly about our friends, hobbies and jobs, in other words, share that part of our lives and ourselves with our SO.

I also agree with the above posters that stated how hurt they would be if they were to discover their SO's were involved in a cyber romance.

In my opinion, there is only room for one love interest in a marriage.

Gidget

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you for sharing Daydreamer. Of course you could have met this same guy anywhere not just online and it sounds like he had his game in good order. What a rat. And there are lots of them out there from what I hear from my single friends who are dating around.

Thanks Whit.

I think everyone is making the point that these relationships seem to get too involved. I personally questioned what was missing from my life (Monday morning quarterbacking) that would have made me get so involved with a stranger. Well the answer is easy. My husband and I are not living together. We're not intending to divorce and we love each other but he in particular is working some stuff out.

I guess I was lonely. Even though I have many great people in my RL and online life there was a void. Even though I am still married, I am in many ways single again for the first time in 20 years. The only difference is I did not have DH or anyone looking over my shoulder. And not in my wildest imaginations wanting a real relationship because my marriage still exists, it seemed like a good idea at the time. And even if I wasn't separated, no one person can be everything to someone. It is easy for a fantasy person to fill what may be missing in one's life.

I thank everyone who is contributing it is helping me and I think it could help someone else who may be toying with the idea or is yet to encounter it. The important point is I wasn't looking for the relationship. It started out very innocently. I am an emotionally stable, happily married (yep) woman and still I fell prey to this.

Gidget

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 09:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually Secretsmile, while I agree hobbies, TV, work are not cheating they can interfer with marital intimacy. A good case in point is online obsession. One does not have to be cyber-sexing to be obsessed with the net and taking time away from their family.

So far only women are contributing to this discussion and we are traditionally more monogamous. In thought and deed. I'm not saying men cheat and women don't but I do think women are less tempted.

<Gidget ducks>

Egbok

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 09:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gidget, I've been following along in this thread since you started it. Can I ask you a question? You stated that you are still married and are not intending on getting a divorce. So my question is...do you still live together?

Crossfire

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 09:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
No guys yet? I'll contribute.

If I were married, or even in a committed relationship, I'd absolutely feel a cyber-romance is off limits, and it would definitely be a 'we need to talk' issue.

This also reminds me of what if I remember correctly was one of the scruple questions. Something about intimate friends. The thrust of the Q at the time, was based on trusting your mate. Most expressed absolute trust, I was skeptical, said it was something I'd be keeping my eye on. This is similar, but it kind of goes straight to the point.

The problem I have with these sort of things, is that unless there are obvious problems, no one does something with the intention of hurting themselves, or their loved ones, but 'things' happen. A comment a couple of messages above kind of captures it for me, "It started out very innocently." No doubt it did, and that is why I have a hard time with unconditional trust. Black and white becomes gray. I'd love to get into such a comforting and confident place, but it would be very hard if I knew cybers were happening on side.

Oddly enough, if I were to shoulder surf a porn session, that would not bother me...that sort of thing I could turn into a win-win (I think the technical term here is a bouncity-bounce session hehehe), but cyber romance is a no go, my feelings would be hurt.

Moondance

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 10:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Someone shoot me... I agree with Cross

Gidget

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 10:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Egbok we do not live together at this time. I know it sounds odd but he needed space. Kind of a midlife thing. Job, cultural identity, etc. I'm okay with it. We have lived apart before for career reasons. At least this time he is only 30 miles away and we can talk and see each other. Last time he was 6,000 miles away. We trust each other implicitly. The cyber thing was not real to me. In fact, I would have not given it much thought except it turned very nasty and scary. That is what got me thinking about a story. Part real, part fiction, part parable.

Crossfire thanks for jumping in. You are all right. It would hurt my DH feelings. I wasn't thinking about that at the time. Selfishness is a peculiar thing. I especially liked your points about grey areas. I am not a jealous person. My DH and I both have freinds of the opposite sexes. But every now and then I get a vibe I don't like and it is not a nice feeling. Not from DH but from some of the women. I know if he gave them one ounce of encouragement they would pounce.

I am curious though what it means to shoulder a porn session.

Egbok

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 10:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gidget, no...it doesn't sound odd at all. I applaud your honesty in this thread, you and others have given me lots to ponder. Thanks.