Are our soldiers underpaid?
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TV ClubHouse: archives: Are our soldiers underpaid?

Bastable

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
After hearing so much about how the families of our servicemen are hovering near the poverty level despite the sacrifices they are making, I read this today. It made me so mad I wanted to yell!

Pricey R&R for US soldiers

Instead of transporting servicemen and women to their home states from Iraq, the US government dumps them in DC to find (and pay for) their own way home


Oct. 6 — The United States government has had no problem getting its troops to Iraq. But when it comes to the much touted, 15-day R&R leaves that most soldiers serving in Iraq for a year or more are being granted, the government hasn’t been footing the bill to get the troops all the way home. Troops are being flown to Frankfurt and/or Baltimore/Washington, and then they’re on their own, stuck making travel arrangements and paying exorbitant last-minute airfares to get to see their loved ones.

IT’S NOT a great way to “rest” or “recuperate”. Things got so bad at the airports that the Veterans of Foreign Wars stepped in and with the help of the USO, started providing vouchers for ground transportation between Dulles and Reagan Airport and the city for troops who didn’t have the cash on them to cover the $35 to $65 cab ride. It was also the VFW, not the US military, that contacted the major airlines according to VFW spokesman Jerry Newberry, requesting that they extend special military discounts to on-leave soldiers forced to buy last-minute tickets.

At this point, US Airways, Delta, American, Northwest and Southwest have answered the call and all are supplying discounted tickets to servicemen and women. While we’ve seen better much better prices on advance purchase fares (on Delta, for example, a round-trip between DC and Raleigh/Durham would be $158 ; to Philadelphia, the cost is the same), for walk-up rates, these aren’t bad. Prices dip the lowest for cross-country fares, which are ringing in at a decent $198 or so from most of the above carriers.
       
But isn’t the point, really, that our government is treating these hard-working—and underpaid—men and women quite shoddily.

Belatedly something is being done. The two Senators from Minnesota, upon receiving complaints from their constituents that soldiers were having to shell out up to $1600 out of pocket to get home, introduced legislation on Friday requiring the government to pay for soldiers entire passage home. “In a time when our troops are living in extremely difficult conditions and serving much longer terms of service than originally thought, the least we can do is pay for their ticket home to see their loved ones,” said Senator Mark Dayton. The legislation passed the Senate by a voice vote on Friday, and now must make it through the House. In the Senate’s version of the bill, the servicemen and women will be reimbursed for previously purchased tickets; those yet to leave for R&R will have all of their tickets paid for.

Don’t our brave men and women deserve this much?

Pamy

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I was just talking to my DH about this. I think veterns are very underpaid.

Tabbyking

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i agree, being married to a veteran. it's hard to believe people live on their military salaries. it's also hard to believe they have been left in the lurch as far as traveling home for a little r and r...
i think you need to correct the title, however. i almost didn't even look at this thread because i didn't know what a 'solider' was. :)

Bastable

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 02:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's a synonym for "lousy typist." MODS, can you please correct my PFC spelling habits? ..."soldiers." Thanks!

fixed title

cw

Zachsmom

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 02:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I know a few families who are in the service. They recieve food stamps. It's pathetic that our men & women sign up to defend and possibly give their lives for the country, yet our country won't pay them enough to purchase food for themselves. Pathetic.

Not1worry

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 02:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
We've been active duty for almost 17 years now. I'll say we are underpaid! Especially as enlisted troops. If my husband had been working in a factory for 17 years, he'd be making more. However, we do get nearly free health care, although the quality is certainly debatable. The commissary has slightly reduced prices for groceries, and things are tax-free at the PX. I live in base housing, definitely not as nice as any place off post. I have no garage, not much of a yard, no linen closet and my kids rooms are teeeeeeny. But I don't pay for electricity or water and they mow my grass for me (again, poorly).

As far as these R & Rs go, I really feel for the soldiers with family on the West Coast. I would drive the 6 hours to get my hubby, but others won't have that choice. I am glad that others are stepping up to cut some of the cost. Remember, the soldiers deployed are making approximately an extra $600 or more each month in duty pays. We save ours and pay off bills, plus a trip to Disney. These soldiers don't HAVE to go on R & R. If it was offered to my husband, he would not take it. It would be too hard to be home for such a short time and then return. Hard on all of us.

Smokey

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes. I think they're horribly underpaid not to mention that Bush has also cut their benefits.

Smokey

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I wanted to add more, but got trigger happy with the post button. :)

My local news in Cleveland recently did a little story about several local service-people who are over in Iraq and were promised to come home for the holidays. Now they are told they cannot come home, because the United States cannot afford airfare to send them home. They were interviewing a lot of family members who were devastated over it.

Makes sense, huh?

Maris

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I posted in another thread in News and Views about that. Soldiers in Kuwait were told they had to pay their own way home because planes were reserved for the soldiers in Iraq. After spending thousands on private airfares their leaves were cancelled, leaving them stuck holding airline tickets.

Bbfanatic

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 03:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i was very happy with what i was paid in the military. but i was single, no children. it seem like i was always getting extra money for one reason or another. i was medically discharged for a brain tumor. i had planned on staying in. i make alot more now as a business owner, but my only expenses in the military was a car. the rest was play money.

Not1worry

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 06:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BB, I did well when I was single too! The single soldiers right now are coming home with 10s of thousands of dollars in the bank. They've nothing to spend it on, plus the additional entitlements, plus the tax break. Lots of big, shiny, new trucks around here after a unit gets home.

Fabnsab

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 10:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My best friend and her husband are both in the army- he being an officer. They are rolling in money. They live in a 5 bedroom house off base that they only contribute about $400 in rent to, they drive BMW's(they're in germany), and get alot of other perks. They have a live-in nanny, too.

My other friend, whose husband was in the Air Force,but not an officer, was living well below poverty when he was enlisted.

I think the key is to become an officer.

Not1worry

Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Fab....don't even get me started on the officer vs. enlisted pay disparity. A brand new lieutenant made more than a first sergeant with 18 years in.

Tabbyking

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 09:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
oh it's so true... when we'd go to the lieutenant colonel's christmas party and his 'housing' was 3,500 sf, with a maid's quarters, compared to enlisted's little basic 2-bedroom place that looked exactly like 2,000 other little places, it really bothered me...although this man was very upset about it and said he would have been much happier with a smaller, more modest residence for himself, his wife and the 2 kids still at home. he was not happy about it and did not find it fair at all. his gas and electric were paid and he felt it was a waste to heat or cool such a large place, when it wasn't necessary to have such a large place, etc. i loved this guy and his wife, and was sorry when they were transferred a few months back. he literally would wear shorts and a t-shirt to his party. (in california, you can do that in december!)he wanted comfort, not dress-up for his parties!
my husband spent 21 years and 9 months in the air force. had he done another 3 months, he would have had a higher retirement pay; however, they don't re-enlist you for a 3-month period! he would have had to complete 2 or 3 more years and go to germany. that would have had him 'out of the loop' with american companies for when he needed a job after retiring. his retirement pay does not even cover our mortgage, insurance and taxes on our home, and we live 92 miles from his present job so we could afford a house at all! his 'pay' would have our family of four below poverty level.
the other retirement benefits are negligible and hard to take advantage of. unless you are single, it is hard to go back to school, because you need to work to support your family. when we bought our home, we could not even use the VA loan, because our home only had a 45-day escrow and VA said they couldn't do it unless they had at least 60 days (there were 2 back-up offers on our house and the owner would not give us the extra 15 days) using tri-care (formerly champus) is a joke. most people don't take it at all or act like you are on welfare when you give them the billing information.
where is the respect and honor and support for the brave men and women who serve to keep all of us safe?

Marysafan

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 11:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
My husband was in the Navy for eleven years and what many of you say is true...however, when looking at careers, one does not consider a military career because it pays well. You know what you are getting into when you sign up.

These days, there is no draft so there is no reason to enlist unless you want to. No one is holding a gun to your head (or a jail sentence) so you don't HAVE to enlist.

I am sure the soldiers and sailors of World War II would have loved to have come home for two weeks even if they had to pay their own way, but I don't think it was an option. Soldiers have always paid their way home from their duty station for leaves. Why should it be any different for these guys and gals? You have a stateside departure point...it's not like you have to pay your way from overseas.

Today's military have it so much better than previous generations and still they are not satisfied. How much easier it would have been for us to maintain some semblance of family life if we would have had access to email, and phone calls.

When it comes right down to it...it is what it is. Take it or leave it. Many of these folks who are over there are reservists who were paid good money for some easy duty. This is the payback.

Everyone wants "the most they can possibly get for the least they can possibly do." (Todd Snider's "Easy Money") ...and soldiers will always complain...it is as natural as breathing.

You want them home...call your Congressman and put an end to this endless aggression. But quit asking taxpayers to pay for more perks.

And for those of you complaining about the benefits you do have, well, you should see how the rest of us are managing trying to pay for outrageous health care premiums that go up every couple of months and prescription meds. Trust me...you don't know how good you have got it.

Pardon my lack of outrage.

Not1worry

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 02:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Most of these soldiers are not complaining. It is their family members who need to toughen up. I can say that since I am a family member. As I stated in my post above, they don't HAVE to take leave, it's not a right to go see family on the military's buck.

I will certainly debate that they know what they are getting into when they sign up. Recruiters promise you the moon and at 18 yrs. old, most kids don't know enough to read the fine print.

When I was agonizing over my husband deploying to Iraq for a year, my mother tried to make me feel better by saying soldier in WWII were gone for 2-3 years. It didn't help. For the record, I've had no emails and a 10 minute phone call every few weeks. Hardly enough to maintain a semblance of family life. Right now he cannot receive his mail or packages because it is too dangerous to transport them to his base.

Today's military may have it better than previous generations, but almost everyone has it better than 50 years ago. But people still complain, it's hardly confined to the military. Our first thought when something becomes difficult is not usually, "Well, thank goodness this isn't 1953."

I pay taxes just like everyone else, and I frequently resent the implication that soldiers "owe" something to the nation beyond their service itself. Joe Taxpayer is not my husband's boss.

In fact when our battalion learned they were going to Iraq after being home from Afghanistan only 6 months, they repacked their bags and went. No one wrote their congressman or a letter to the newspaper, no one moaned about how it wasn't fair. These are tireless, dedicated individuals. In the words of my husband, "This is my job."

Rant complete.

Marysafan

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 03:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Just to set the record straight....."No one wrote their congressman...." I wrote to all of them in Iowa...and just for good measure...I wrote to the ones in Nebraska too.

I do not take sending troops in harms way and away from their families lightly. There had better be a darned good reason for it...and I didn't think there was one.

Tabbyking

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 06:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
mary, your take it or leave it seemed a little harsh!

Not1worry

Friday, October 10, 2003 - 06:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mary, I was referring only to the active duty soldiers in our battalion. I'm sure many other letters have been and continue to be written.

Zeno39

Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
For Mary- I don't know if you have ever considered that most of the older military folks went in because they WANTED to serve their country. My husband was that way, and very loyal to the US. There are a lot of panty-waist guys out there who are nothing but cowards and would cry if they had to serve their country. I consider the older military heroes to go through what they have been for the sake of freedom. The military has changed a lot and most of them are only in it for the money now- the ones who have no responsibilities to anyone. Naturally they think they have it made because they don't have a family to support. I think you should really do a lot of praying for our men and women in uniform who give a damn, instead of not appreciating them.

Marysafan

Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I NEVER said that I didn't appreciate them. I SAID that the military men and women of today have it a LOT better than ever before. I SAID I don't think they appreciate how good they have it. I SAID that today they have a CHOICE whether or not to join the military...that wasn't true in years past.

In the, 50's, 60's & 70's, most were there not because they wanted to be...they were there because they had no other choice if they wanted to stay in the country and out of jail. Today's guys and gals have a CHOICE. If they choose to serve, then they have no reason to complain...they knew what the deal was going in.

That's what I said.

I have always supported our military personnel, I don't want them used up as some sort of human resource that is expendable at the whim of an agressive administration. But I think that there is is a limit as to what expenses taxpayers should be expected fork over in the way of perks.

The issue was whether they should get a free ride home. I said that no other soldiers were ever offered that option...and I didn't think that this group was any more special than any other group of soldiers that have served in other times.

When my husband was in the military, he had an option to come home for 10 days in the middle of a six month deployment. We had a new baby that was six weeks old when he left an dhe wanted to come home REAL bad. He was a petty officer third class...and money was tight. When they were in port, my husband stayed on board ship and took extra duty to earn extra money. He stood extra watches, and even sewed buttons and did other chores to earn extra cash. It took him three months, but finally, he was able to earn the fare to fly home from Athens, Greece. We were glad for the opportunity...but didn't expect anyone else to pay for it.

I am glad that they are given the option to come home for some R & R, I think they deserve it. Do I think the taxpayers should pay for it...NO. There has got to be a limit to government spending. These folks are given a free ride to the states and only have to make their way from there. I think that is more than reasonable. All things considered.

And for ZENO ..if you surveyed military personnel...and asked them why they joined the military...I doubt that "serving my country" is at the top of the list.

Not1worry

Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mary, I'll respectfully say that I believe you have a very inaccurate view of today's military.

Serving his country is at the top of my husband's list of reasons he is in the military. Many soldiers left higher paying civilian jobs with better benefits because they wanted to serve their country.

He is currently living in a bombed out shell, being shot at frequently, so that you may endorse whatever view you choose. He is proud to do it, and I'm proud of him.

Marysafan

Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My view is based on many conversations with the young people in my family, and my community and one that I think is more realistic.

The young people that I know are not joining the military for the opportunity to serve their country.

They join because they have finished school and have no idea what they want to do with their lives.

They join because there are no viable job opportunities available....the mines are not hiring, farming is suffering, the factory closed down.

They join because they have no employable job skills and choose the military hoping to gain some.

They join because they are not ready for college and don't have the money to pay for it even if they were.

They join to get out of the town in which they have been stuck in all their lives.

They join for the adventure...to see the world before settling down.

They join...because they have no idea what else to do...and they have to do something.

However, many citizens serve their country in many ways. The military isn't the only way to serve your country. Let's not forget that.

Martin Clish (my husband's cousin) was in the Peace Corps and was murdered in Laos in the early 1960's. He answered President Kennedy's call to "ask not...".

So yes, I know that there are some people who join to serve their country. I just don't think they are in the majority...or that it is the reason at the top of the list of most people for reasons why they joined. Not saying that it isn't on the list...just saying it probably isn't first. I know...because I ask them.

Zeno39

Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I will just add this and then move on- my husband was in the military for 31 years, so I know of what I speak, and what I saw in those 31 years. Every one of the people under him loved him and worked proudly for their country. I have seen tears in their eyes at special functions whenever the anthem was played. That is loving your country! My husband died a service-related death, but if he were here today, I know he would say that he would do it all over again. I was VERY proud of him!