Legal Advice Needed-Settlement of an estate
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Legal Advice Needed-Settlement of an estate

Gadzooks

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My head is about to explode. My family is involved in a horrible settlement of an estate. My grandmother died 6 months ago, in her will she left everything to her 5 children, 2 of which were named executors.

My mother is one of the heirs and she is being treated like garbage by all the other heirs. The executors don't tell her what they are doing, some heirs are cleaning out grandma's house without any supervision, they haven't even put the house on the market. Rumours have it that the executors plan to sell the house to one of the heirs at a bargain price, give my mother her share and then turn around and sell the house at a huge profit and split it amongst themselves, thus eliminating my mother. Can this be done legally? Doesn't my mother have to sign some papers to give consent to selling the property? Can one heir block another heir from entering the property? This whole thing is a nightmare!!!

Tabbyking

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
there has to be an attorney who drew up the papers. your mother must have a copy of the will or the living trust and there will be a name of who drew it up. have your mother contact him or another attorney to voice her suspicions. how sad...

Tabbyking

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
p.s. where is goddessatlaw?!!! go to her folder maybe and leave a message.

Weinermr

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks,

Your mother should hire an attorney whose specialty is estate planning and taxation. I don't know the procedures in Canada, but in many states in the U.S. an estate of significant size must be settled under court supervision.

A good attorney won't necessarily be expensive and will be sure your mother's interests are properly represented in the settlement of your grandmother's estate. Perhaps the two executors can be required to account to the court for their actions, and be held personally liable for any breach of their fiduciary duty.

If the two executors are not impartially carrying out their fiduciary duty to ALL estate beneficiaries, then perhaps an independent third party individual, a bank, or a trust company can be appointed to administer the estate properly.

Good luck to you and your family.

Tabbyking

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i agree with all you said, weinermr.
and a good attorney should not cost a lot to just read over and help interpret the will. hopefully, gadz's mom can go to whoever drew up the will and clear things up. it's not enough that she lost her mom, she has to have 4 conniving siblings, too?

Goddessatlaw

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 05:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks: sorry, I cannot give legal advice over the internet. Particularly in the area of wills and trusts, the laws which apply will vary radically from state to state. There are ficudiciary responsibilities that attach to being executor of any estate, however, and the executors can be held accountable for certain actions taken in contravention of their responsibilities. You need to consult a local attorney who focuses his or her practice in the area of wills and probate and get their opinion on the situation. They may charge a consultation fee, or provide you with a free consultation. Any way you look at it, it will be worth the investment of time and/or money. Also, the statutes regarding your local rules which apply to wills should be available online. Familiarize yourself with them before contacting an attorney so you are able to formulate questions and better understand the answers the attorney provides. Just a general search for, say, Indiana statutes would require that you type in a general search for "Indiana statutes", and you'll be given a host of links to choose from. The statutes will be organized by subject, so you can just scroll down the list to "probate" or "wills" and read the entire code for probate of an estate in your state, including a deliniation of the responsibilities of executors. Good luck and keep us posted.

Rabbit

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 08:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
A little note here on estate planning.

If your goal is to tear your family apart after you die. Name one of your children the executor of your estate. If you want your children to remain close after your death leave all your money to your cat, that will draw them together.

Juju2bigdog

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Amen, Hare. Exactly what I was thinking. Even when people don't HAVE anything, this always seems to happen.

Weinermr

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I can vouch from years of personal experience that nothing tears a family apart more than arguing over someone's money or belongings. Boy do I have stories.

Juju2bigdog

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 03:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I bet you do, Weinermr, bet you do.

Ddr1135

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks, I agree with the others, get legal advice to protect your mother's share.

Reminds me when my grandfather died more than 10 years ago. Only grandchildren were left to inherit the estate, my cousin insisted on driving in from NY because he wanted to rent a Uhall to take the stuff back with him. His wife wanted my grandmother's jewelry, a woman she had never met! (She didn't get it.) All this was done 24 hours after we had buried my grandfather. I just thought the whole thing was very sad that we had to deal with all of that so soon. BTW, haven't seen him since (not that I would want to.)

Tabbyking

Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 05:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
we had friends where the mother of our male friend passed away. his father was still living. everyone else lived in colorado and our friends had to drive there from california. when they got there, the other siblings and their spouses had gone around with little stickers and put them all over the items they wanted. there were stickers on the silver, on dining room chairs, the tv, etc. our friends had to knock everyone back into reality and tell them "hello?! our father is still alive and they are HIS things. then they removed the stickers and told the others they should be ashamed of themselves. the dad got smart and sold off things he didn't want and used the money to do little things he wanted to do so there wasn't much left when he passed away himself a few years later. my friends were happy for him. the other kids were pissed.

Gadzooks

Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi guys,

I appreciate all the advice given in this thread. It makes me feel better knowing that other people have lived through this horrible nightmare. I agree that my grandmother should never have appointed her two sons as executors. The fact that they are controlling everything and playing games with my mother's head is driving me crazy. Spoke to an attorney today and he advised us to stay quiet and wait for the cheque. Ugh!!! This could take forever. I can't believe the executors have all this power. Somewhere down the line you'd think that they would need to consult my mother about certain actions that they want to take. O.K....I'm going to take an Advil and sleep on this. Thanks everyone.

Whit4you

Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well I don't know if anyone really wants my 2 cents on this but since it's posted to the TVCH board.. I'm going to give it.


"What would Gramma want??" - and if you care about Gramma then that's what you should do. If Gramma wanted to see a family split apart by greed / or folks feeling other folks should do the right thing... then was she in her right mind when she decided that's what she wanted? Did she do it out of vindictivness for those who were not there for her when she needed them the most? If what Gramma wanted was to see folks torn apart by a few dollars or even a few hundred thousand dollars - then what would your morals dictate?

I'd rather lose a few thousand or even a few hundred thousand dollars than be a part of a greed fest over my dead grandmothers estate.... if I were the one who cared for her the most and gave the most to her emotionally and so on .. in her last days or years and she chose not to recognize that or her will didn't recognize that... the joy I had insde of being the one there for her in those times of need... would mean more to me than any amount of dollars ever could. If I wasn't the one who gave my all to her in those last few years - and now demand MY share, because I happen to be of her decendents - shame on me.

I'm 'old fashoned' in only a few ways and this is one of them... because my mom and dad took care of in every single way - with not one dime of help from 'the state' their parents... and when their parents did die - they didn't use the fact that THEY did the right thing and took care of their parents as justification for being PAID for doing the RIGHT thing later. They did't take care of them and expect to get paid for it, they didn't expect to earn more (get paid more in the end) for doing the RIGHT thing over their ciblings who put their own young families first ... they just did what was right and didn't and never would have expected to 'earn' from it in any way. I believe my parents were the norm - not the execption in thsoe days. Times have really changed though - the Social Security fund... smaller families, extended families and so on. In history forever - it was the childrens duty with no 2nd thought to take care of the elderly.. with not one thought to what they might gain from it.


In MY opinon - if there are a few greedy people in the family - wanting to be vultures - let them. Write a very well worded piece as a final word (if not trust me I can and will write it for you - and have done it) for eternity... and let them live with their morals .. and those extra few hundreds.. thousands or whatever.... it's not worth it to stoop to their level and act like what matters about the grandparents is their $$ not the gifts they have given including the fact that ya'all are even alive to be fighting over their remains.

Times have changed but my own morals on this haven't...

Now if you were talking millions - I'd have a different answer.. NOT because millions matter to ME but because millions can matter in that grandparents great..and great-great grandchildrens futures and those aspects should be weighted differently.

Just my 2 cents...

Gadzooks

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Here goes another question:

The executors of the will have just put both of my grandmother's properties on sale. On one they are asking for $137,000 and the other $127,000. The minimum they want to receive is $110,000 and $100,000 respectively. They claim the rest will pay for the real estate broker's commission and maintenance costs. There hasn't been any maintenance on the homes since her death. Can they actually be trying to pocket this money? Will they need to disclose or justify all the maintenance they are claiming? Can they get away with this?

Also, before the inheritance gets divided amongst the siblings does every heir need to sign a paper to consent to all that has been done to execute the will? It's all so complicated!!!

Rissa

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 07:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit, well put!!

My grandmother died the week of 9/11, leaving everything 50/50 to her two sons with her youngest son as executor. Well youngest son was/is the biggest sh**head you ever could want to meet. He had his name on all his mother's bank accounts, etc because for the last year or so of her life he had been paying her bills (I suppose this was easier, having his name on the accounts then going through power of attorney). So can you see what happens? Instead of splitting 50/50 he takes 50% right off the top (his *half* of their joint accounts) and then splits the remainding 50%. So my father got 25%. On top of that, my uncle put all the taxes, the funeral cost, the lawyers fees, etc on my father's 25%!!!! It wasn't a lot of money, but dad walked away with about 3 grand while Uncle ended up with just under 100 grand.

My father just kept his mouth shut, swore a lot at walls for a few weeks and let it go. It's not like my dad was a slacker all these years waiting for his mother to pay for his retirement so the money is no biggie. What hurts is that his own and only brother would look him right in the eye and pull this. This Uncle also pulled the stunt of cleaning out my grandmother's apt behind our backs (while the body was on route to the funeral home actually)and kept everything he found there. Again dad is mum, he is desperate to keep a smile on his face so that just maybe he can beg some family photos or copies of family documents (which is, after all... the real gold IMO)

It's so sad that families would treat each other this way and I am so sorry your mom is going through it Gadzooks. I would tell her to get ready to fight over what's important... if there is a family heirloom, photos, etc. that she would like to have but to let the vultures fight over the remainder. I would at least talk to a lawyer first though, depending on the amount involved. {sigh} Ahh heck, listen to Rabbit and leave it all to your cat. LOL

Weinermr

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 08:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks,

Again, I don't know the laws in Canada regarding estate administration. Here in the US, the executors' activities would most likely be supervised by the court. The executors would have to account to the court, and to all the heirs, regarding all their activities and as to all the assets in the estate. They would have to prepare an Inventory of all estate assets, and get them appraised to determine their date of death value. They would have to file a formal Accounting with the court and document every sale, every receipt, and every disbursement regarding all estate assets and cash.

I would once again urge you to hire an attorney to represent you in this matter to be sure that your interests are being properly represented. Good luck to you.

Grooch

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 09:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Weinermr. And I would find a different one than the one that told you to do nothing but wait for the check.

Bearware

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, I'm a bit worried now -- I am the sole caregiver for my stepmother. She does have a will, we made sure of that, and right now, she's doing great. She has a serious form of leukemia, though, and that could change on a dime. She has 3 sons, one of whom lives close but NEVER comes to visit her, and 2 step-kids, me and my brother who lives about 1000 miles away. I don't like her sons, but I believe very strongly that it's HER STUFF and what she wants done with it should be done with it. The only part of the will I know is that I am executrix. The reasoning behind that is that I will be the one closing the house up anyway, and this would make it easier. Should I ask her to appoint the attorney executor? I do NOT want to be hated by the family, my brother and one son in particular. Couldn't care less about the other two. I just always thought I'd change the locks, take it all to the attorney to oversee, and call in an auction house after the specific legacies were handled. Am I being naive? HELP!

Weinermr

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bearware,

Your role as executor of your stepmother's estate is to carry out the provisions of her Will, in a manner prescribed under the laws of your state.

If you do that impartially and honestly, and communicate your actions to the heirs appropriately, you should have nothing to worry about. A good attorney will assist you, and guide you through the process.

If you truly do not want to act as executor when your stepmother dies, you can ask her now to name someone else as executor. If she does not change her Will before she dies, you can decline to act at that time, and the court will have to appoint someone else. You cannot be forced to be executor if you do not want to be.

The heirs will have no reason to hate YOU if you are carrying out the wishes of your stepmom. It is HER Will that provides for the distribution of her estate, not yours. I wish you good luck.

Bearware

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 05:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks so much Weinermr - That's kinda what I thought, but this thread made me step back and think. Your help is very appreciated!