Archive through January 19, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: 2003 January: Dogs (ARCHIVE): Archive through January 19, 2003

Julieboo

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 05:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sia, I have visited, volunteered and have had plenty of experiences with shelters and animal controls. Have you even talked to anyone at a pet rescue? No dog at a pet rescue ever shivers. No dog at a humane society shivers. Even at animal control, the animals are warm and are fed. Now of course, I can only speak for the ones surrounding my area. I bet the ones farther into country are not as nice. But ask anyone at any humane society their view on a dog chained outside. Let me know what they say.

Would a bale of hay keep you warm ouside? Even in a wooden doghouse?

And I bet there are neighbors of yours who would let their kids do things that you wouldn't let yours do. So just cuz you see them chain their dogs, doesn't make it okay.

By the way, you don't need to tell me how many unwanted pets there are in the world. Just check out Kyler Laird's website or petfinder.com for just a fraction of what's out there.

Please reread Square's post and Babyruth's, as by now you are probably so steamed at me that you won't take what I say seriously.

Okay, I think I've said enough for now. My intent, seriously, was not to insult you. I have an unusually big soft spot in my heart for all the dogs and cats out there. I think far too many people look at pets as something disposable or are not responsible enough. And I do think you are a responsible person. At least I hope you are.

Okay, I'll go away now.

Sia

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 06:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Julieboo, I HAVE visited my county's animal shelter. In spring, summer, and fall ALL the dogs are chained outdoors all day long and they are moved into chain-link enclosures in a building at night. I have been there many times, visiting the kitty-cats and dropping off old towels, blankets, newspapers, etc. for the shelter. In winter-time I don't know if the dogs are chained outdoors for any longer than it takes them to go potty, but the rest of the year the dogs ARE outdoors all day long. (The cats have a separate room indoors with a wire enclosure they can walk into at will.)

I meant "shivering" more in the sense of the animal having a feeling of impending doom as his/her day for death approaches. Our animal shelter does NOT keep all animals until they're adopted. Most adult animals face the very real possibility of being put to death when the shelter is at capacity.

My daughter's dance teacher just ran for president of the shelter society. I will see her Wednesday night and will ask her about chaining dogs outdoors when I see her (regardless of whether or not she was elected to the office she sought). Of COURSE it's better for an animal if it can be kept indoors, but can you say you don't know anyone who keeps animals outside?

Tell you what, I'll go liberate all the animals over in town and we'll see what happens. I'll count on the generosity and big hearts of people who post here, since I'm bound to get caught (cause I'm big and slow) and arrested. Suppose while I'm languishing in county custody that somebody out there might take care of my family for me? Then I think I'll start a crusade to liberate ALL sentient beings who are being held against their will. I think I'll start with death row prisoners, federal and state prisoners, then move on to county and municipal jails. Hmmmm, would anyone object if I campaign to get the Al Qaeda prisoners released from Guantanamo?

I'll go away, too.

Sabbatia

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 06:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Don't go Sia. If the animals weren't properly loved, they wouldn't come back to be chained. Have you ever considered one of the wireless fence options though? My sis uses one and it works well with her dog. I'm normally against chaining, but if you love a dog and they know it and aren't bothered by the chaining, then I would be the last person to say don't do it. I'm willing to bet your two get more exercise than my two lazy boys. I have a large, fenced backyard, but they don't want to stay out long enough to exercise. If I shut the door and try to make them, they just stand there and bark.

Julie, no, a bale of hay wouldn't keep me warm, but a fur coat and a bale of hay would, and a doghouse would keep the rain and snow off of my head. We had a strictly outdoor dog for the entire time I was growing up. She was happy and healthy. I'm one of the most soft hearted, biggest doglovers in the world. I've picked up sick dogs beside the road and spent a ton on vet bills to get them well...but I do recognize that they are dogs, and therefore different from us.

As for cats, I've only had one cat in my life. She came inside to eat and play, and lived outside. My parents adopted every stray cat after we left home. All were outside cats. I don't think we ever actually own a cat, they own us.

Julieboo

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 07:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I swear (well, I'll try very hard) that this will be the last post from me in this thread... Sab, you say "If I shut the door and try to make them, they just stand there and bark." Why do they do that? Just think about why---could it be that they'd rather have your companionship?

Oh, and I *honestly* do not know anyone who keeps their dog chained up outside. I do have one friend who has outdoor dogs, but her husband works out of his garage (car work) and the dogs are with him most days. Plus the garage is heated and they have a few acres fenced in.

Now I live in suburbia, so I am sure neighbors are closer together and there are way less outdoor dogs here than in some other parts of the state.

And I am probably very ignorant, living so close to the city and not familiar with country life. All I know is that a dog needs a lot of companionship every day.

Okay, I am over and out. Sia, I really didn't mean for this to get so tense. I think it's great that you visit and donate to your county animal control. Out of a humane society, and shelter or animal countrol, the county animal control usually has the neediest animals.

And on the last note, Sia, I really do apologize if I offended you. My intent was not to offend, but rather to make you and others think about what the best thing for a dog is.

Sia

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 07:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks, Sabbatia, for entering the conversation here and for making the wireless fence contribution. This would be a great idea if Dan didn't think he had to chase every cat I have right up the nearest tree! It might work for the Aussie, though.

You know, something occurred to me earlier this evening as I was making sandwiches for my husband to take to work in his bucket: people and animals have been on earth for thousands of years WITHOUT HEATED HOUSING. My husband is the biggest baby in the world when it comes to personal comfort. He dials the thermostat up and down just to heat or cool the house a couple of degrees; that drives me nuts! When I lived alone I chopped my own wood and built fires in my woodburning stove to supplement the heat put out by my gas furnace. Just a generation ago people didn't have central heat and air. And the thought of pampering dogs and cats indoors was simply unheard of. Jesus H. Roosevelt, there are some important issues to get worked up about, and my keeping two dogs out in my back yard is just NOT one of them.

If anyone wants to ride my a$$ any more about my keeping my dogs out back, you may do so after you have driven to my house and picked them up and taken them home with you.

Moderator

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 07:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, this is getting out of hand. Let's take a time out and we'll reopen this thread soon.
(22)

Moderator

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This thread has been reopened. Anymore posts along the lines of the earlier posts will result in this entire thread being removed.

Please remember the rules of this board and keep debates about issues ON TOPIC rather than resorting to personal attacks ABOUT the topic.

Thanks :)
(14)

Moderator

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Because of continued posting on this highly charged topic, more posts have been removed. One post that ignored the above warning and the other simply because even the smallest helpful suggestion about the issue seems to set off more charged posts, however innocent they may be.

This is the final warning. This topic has been beat to death.

Please return to sharing stories about dogs as that is less volatile and more in line with the spirit of the thread.

Thanks again
(14)

Edited to add: Any concerns about the moderation of this thread should be addressed in email form to the moderator account.

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I have more pics of my boys I would love to share! So, hopefully my boys can help get this back to normal.

I am open and willing to read any posts of those who wish to gush over what beautiful boys I have!


Boomer loves to play fetch. Trouble is, he usually chooses sticks that are a bit hard to throw!

boomer & stick


Here is Bomba with his favorite toy, Yellow Bear. Yellow bear is only a shell of a toy now. I've rescued him from outside many times (he's gotten frozen a few times from being outside), resulting in a crack in the plastic. Now poor Yellow bear has no bottom, and is missing his entire right side. But Yellow Bear will never be thrown out. When it's Bomba's time to cross the Rainbow Bridge, Yellow Bear will hold an honored place in the family's cedar chest.

Yellow Bear

Kaili

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, how about this....

I will tell about my cousin's crazy little dog, Simon. He is a Terradoodle- a terrier-poodle mix with an overbite. I don't have a lot to say about him except that he's a cute, crazy little dog that thinks he's super tough and he falls asleep when you rub his belly.

Actually, how about this for a new topic. How many people have bought pet insurance (for meds, etc)- if you have what type did you buy? I think it's a great idea for just in case a major problam comes up. I got a white shephard from a pet store when I was a kid and it turned out her hips were so bad by the time she was 2 she had to be put to sleep- we couldn't afford a double hip surgery for her :(

Here's the story of how I found out- very distressing to me. I was away at college and everytime I talked to my mom I asked about the dogs seperately. How's Hannah? She's fine. How's Teeka? She replied- oh the same. Then 2 days later I got a letter saying Teeka had been put to sleep. In terms of mail time, the last time she had told me "the same", Teeka had already been dead. So I called absolutely WAILING and screaming at her for lying. She said she didn't lie- she was the same as the day before (dead). Awful! She couldn't bring herself to tell me because she knew I would be upset and she thought a letter would be easier. I was all alone with nobody I really knew at school. It was awful!!!

Isn't that mean?

Kaili

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Haha Whoami- my dog is like that with sticks. Obsessive really. She used to carry logs around from the woodpile. Then she won' bring it back- she carries it for awhile with great pride, then lays down to do her duty of completely tearing it apart until there is no stick left. In winter when sticks are less available, she's quite happy to chase snowballs. Oh, or at the river and lake if you splash water up she's pretty happy to try and catch that too!

Weinermr

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whoami, Your boys are definitely cutie pies. I loved the pics you posted earlier with them loving you up. They look like an awful lot of fun and full of life.

Kaili, We've never bought pet insurance. We are definitely not rich, but have always just dealt with pet medical expenses as they have come up. I would gladly go into heavy debt to pay for anything and anything that a pet (or a family member) needed in the area of medical care. I have long wondered about whether it would have made sense to purchase the insurance, but the time is long past that we could have done so. That was an awful way to find out your news.

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I have more pics to come, but decided to break it up in a few posts, rather that have a page long post.

More on Yellow Bear. Bomba has a game now with Yellow Bear. Since Bomba loves to sneak Yellow Bear outside, I took to hiding him when I let the boys out. That turned into a morning game after they eat breakfast. When the boys are outside, I hide Yellow Bear. Then the boys come in and Bomba does a search for him. Bomba is very anal about how this is done. I must go and close the back door, and sit down on the couch and say, "Now where do you think that Yellow Bear is today?" Often, I've seen Bomba already find Yellow Bear, but turn around and wait for me to close the door and come back to the front room. Then he proceeds with his search.

One time, Bomba did his search and couldn't find YB. Usually, when that happens, I give him clues like, "go look down Grandma's hallway." This time, YB was in Grandma's bathroom. I told Bomba to go look down Grandma's hallway, and he did, but came back empty handed. I figured he just went and looked in the bedroom. So, I went to the doorway of the bathroom and told him, "look in there."

Bomba kept looking and looking, and gave me this, "I can't find him" face. So, I finally went into the bathroom to point YB out, only to find the bathroom EMPTY! I thought maybe I was losing it or something, and together we looked around for a few minutes. Suddenly I looked at Bomba and asked, "Did you by chance come and sneak him away when I wasn't looking?" Bomba got a HUGE grin on his face and led me to the back door (which was of course closed). I opened the door, and Bomba dashed out to the furthest corner of the yard and came back with Yellow Bear!

I'm not sure what was more hilarious. The fact that he re-hid Yellow Bear on me, or that he came back in and did a fake search pattern, waiting for ME to discover that Yellow Bear was no longer where I'd hidden him!

Rissa

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I will jump in with new question which everyone can get obsessed with. LOL At least I hope you all will, I am looking for suggestions. Those of you who have been posting in the CAT folder know that I just got a 2nd kitty, for the sake of this problem I will ignore him as he doesn't affect the issue.

I have a beautifull 2 1/2 year old Havanese dog. At the time we got him, we also wanted a cat but decided to be intelligent about it, not emotional {ha, hard with our pets) and wait until the dog was completely housetrained and settled into our routines. Which we did. We crate trained him.... have a big crate in our kitchen filled with pillows and blankets. Won't bore you with the process but at the end of his first year we had a dog who slept in his crate all night but with the door removed. Soooooo, time for the cat. I spent a few months talking to prospective kitty owners.. until we found Madison... my baby girl. She moved into our house a whole 4 inches tall and had our dog cowering in the corner within minutes. LOL Anyway, the two are now bosom buddies and rough-housing is a two way street with them. My problem is nights. We had to put the door back on the dog's crate because the CAT would wake him up to play and he would then do his business all over the house because no-one was there to let him out!!!!! We can't discipline behavior we can't see and I didn't want him backtracking in his housetraining because pooping on the carpet was ok at 3 am so maybe it's ok at 3 pm?

I don't think he is suffering any with the crate obviously. I have been told by many vets that it's the #1 recommended way to housetrain a dog. And my own vet has just shrugged and told me to keep him in the crate at night and stop feeling guilty about it. It's not like he is crated when he awake. But I do!!

Anyone have any suggestions? Or am I really over-reacting?

Whoami, your dogs are beautifull!!!!! We owned a black lab once, I just love them.

Kaili, I have never heard the term Terradoodle. LOLOL Around here they are called Terri-poos :) I don't have insurance on my pets, I looked into it once but it was sooooo expensive that my dog would have to have several thousands of dollars in surgery or other ER procedures to be worth it within his expected lifespan. I think it was something like $325 a year and did not include the yearly checkup and vacinations.

Sabbatia

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 08:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whoami, I swear your boys look like they could be my big one's twin. There is nothin like a big cuddly dog.

Weiner, I'm with you in that I've never bought pet insurance, and I DID go into debt to pay for mine's medical expenses. Shortly after my big boy had ACL surgery on both knees, my sheltie got both staph and strep in one ear. They had a horrible time clearing it up, and it took many many trips to the vet. That was a bad yr for vet bills. We WISHED we had gotten insurance. I'll never forget this one woman we met at the surgeon's office. Her poor kitty had so many things wrong with her it was unbelieveable. She had to have an IV several times per week. The owner said she didn't care what it took, as long as her cat wasn't suffering, and she could keep her comfortable, she would keep on going to the vet constantly. I'm the same way. People make fun of me now because our bed hasn't been on a frame for two yrs. The boys sleep with us, and I can't have the knees reinjured from jumping off of the bed. If he wants to cuddle, I'll let him. It's just one less place to accumulate dust and dog hair.

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, here's more...


Bomba tries to get my attention away from the TV, to get up and let him out. How can you resist that big smile of his? I always thought he'd be a good politition if he were human. Good looking, very manipulative, and a great smile!

Bomba TV


Here's Boomer doing his "Good Boy" pose. He lays down and stretches those long front legs of his straigt out, and pressing them to the ground. I could title this, "My Grandma, what long legs you have...."

long legs

Kaili

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Terradoodle was made up- it just sounds funny so I love it. I knew a guy who referred to his dog as a Cocka-peka-poo-poo-poo refering to the parents being Cocker Spaniel-Pekinese and pure poodle (hence the double poo). Haha.

Kaili

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whoami--- trying to figure out what was being watched on TV at the time the photo was taken...

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL I was wondering that too Kaili! It almost looks like Bush on the right. Maybe it's the news? I don't remember! I can even see the CC says, "I only wish it were."

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And finally....

Bomba must have been a cat in a prior life. He loves to chase the red dot from the laser beam. He's hilarious, he rears up and pounces on it like a cat! You can see the dot on his foot I think, just after he pounced on it.


Bomba & Dot


And, sharing Milk & Cookies with Grandma.....

Milk&Cookies

Kaili

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I looked at two insurance sites- it obviously depends on location, type, and age of the pet but for a younger dog it can be pretty inexpensive. Some include spaying and neutering, x-rays, labs, some yearly shots, etc.

Whoami

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BTW Mods, I'm sorry if my pics are too big. I don't know how to size them down. If I'm taking up too much space, please feel free to re-size if you need! I am looking into getting software so I can edit pics!

Twiggyish

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whoami, I posted my pet's pic in the cat's thread..LOL I couldn't bring it in here.

Love your pictures!

Rissa

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Having a heck of a time with my scanner tonight but wanted to show off my baby boy, when he WAS a baby. LOL

Miko

Mygetaway

Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 09:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who.. Love the pics and the stories.. Your boys are smart and handsome!
I've never had a male dog.. Isn't that weird?
Male cats, and female dogs, always spayed and neutered right away because they were shelter or "rescued" animals. The kid{s} got mad at me everytime we got a new dog because they wanted puppies.. they just didn't understand.


Rissa.. Stop feeling guilty. The dog would let you know if it was unhappy being crated. My 4 year old prefers her kennel at times. She considers that "her space." She has recently started sleeping under my wheelchair, next to my bed on nights when "Dad" is home. That spot before was always held by our older golden/mix that passed away last fall. Zoey has decided if she's not in bed with me, then this is as close as she can get. Our other youngest dog has issues with the kennel, and lets us know she's not happy. The only time she has to go there is if we're leaving, so she's not as good about going in it.