Archive through February 01, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archives: 2003 January:
Columbia Break-Up (ARCHIVE):
Archive through February 01, 2003
Zachsmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:16 am     I couldn't post the link had /,/ in the URL.. here's the article from time.com Seven astronauts, including the first Israeli in space, were lost Saturday when the space shuttle Columbia broke apart in the skies of Texas. The incident occurred at an altitude of some 200,000 feet, shortly after reentry and 15 minutes before Columbia had been scheduled to land at Cape Canaveral. TIME science correspondent Jeffrey Kluger explains some of the possible causes and consequences of the accident: TIME.com: What are the possible scenarios that could have caused this disastrous accident on the shuttle's reentry into the Earth's atmosphere? Jeffrey Kluger: There are three possible scenarios that explain this event. The first, which I believe is the likeliest explanation, would be an aerodynamic structural breakup of the shuttle caused by it rolling at the wrong angle. Remember, after reentry, the shuttle is descending without power, which means astronauts at the controls can't compensate for a loss of attitude by using the engines, they can only do so using the flaps. And that's extremely hard. Astronauts describe piloting the shuttle on reentry as like trying to fly a brick with wings. It's very difficult to operate, and even more so to correct any problems. A second explanation might be a loss of tiles leading to a burn-through. (The shuttle is covered with heat-resistant tiles to protect the craft and those inside it from burning up in the scorching temperatures caused by the friction of reentry.) But I think that explanation is unlikely, because the tile-loss would have had to have been quite substantial for that to become possible. You'll hear a lot in the next few days about things falling off the shuttle during liftoff. But it often happens that they lose a few tiles, and I'd be surprised if it happened on a scale that could make an accident of this type possible. The last option is some kind of engine failure leading to fuel ignition. Although the main tanks are mostly empty, there should still be fuel left in the maneuvering tanks. But probably not enough for an explosion that could have caused this breakup. And just in case anybody was wondering, you can almost certainly rule out terrorism as a cause. This incident occurred well above the range of shoulder-fired missiles. And it would probably be easier to sneak a bomb onto Air Force One than to get one onto the shuttle. TIME.com: So is reentry the Achilles heel of the shuttle program? JK: No, the Achilles heel has always been liftoff, and the dangers posed by massive fuel load involved. Reentry has, of course, always been a difficult part of the space program. But this is, in fact, our first fatal accident on reentry. Apollo 13 is remembered as our most difficult ever reentry, but the ship and crew survived. The Soviets lost a crew on reentry in 1970 after an oxygen leak that caused the cosmonauts to suffocate on the way down. Reentry is a very difficult process, but the Russians mastered it in 1961 and we did the same a few years later. TIME.com: Are shuttle crews trained to respond to the scenarios you've described? JK: Yes, they're trained to deal with loss of attitude on reentry, and a range of other emergencies. But astronauts are not trained to deal with situations that result in certain death, because that would be a bit like training for what you might do if your car went over a cliff — in some situations there simply isn't anything you can do. One irony, though, is that NASA hadn't trained astronauts to deal with the sort of quadruple failure that occurred in Apollo 13, because they assumed that such a scenario would result in certain death. But the astronauts survived. TIME.com: What are the immediate implications for the space program of Saturday's disaster? JK: Following the precedent of the Challenger disaster in 1986, it's unlikely that NASA will undertake any further shuttle missions or any other manned space flights for the next two years. One immediate problem, though, is the International Space Station, which currently has a crew of three on board. They might consider one further flight to bring that crew home — the other option would be for them to return aboard a Russian Soyuz craft, which isn't the most comfortable or the safest ride. Beyond that, however, the space station is likely to be left unoccupied for a long time. NASA won't want to use the shuttle again until it can establish the cause of today's accident, and fix it. Now that we've lost two shuttles out of a fleet of five, it's even conceivable that the shuttle won't fly again. The shuttle was built as a space truck, and then the International Space Station was built to give it something to do. Both programs are likely to suffer as a result of this disaster |
Seamonkey | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:17 am     The Husband statement was poignant and also an earlier clip was played of Laurel Clark, MD happily talking about coming home. http://www.haaretz.com is a good Israeli site, click some links and it tells of some of the significant items taken on board by the Israeli astronaut. Sad day, indeed. |
Kaili | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:28 am     Final moments of the tape- awful to have the world hear your loved ones last words. But nothing sounds unusual- like just out of nowhere mid sentence. I hope they don't ground it permanently. That sounds like giving up- but they do need to investigate. I wonder if they have told the people on the ISS yet and what they are thinking. They must feel stranded and really alone being in space right now. |
Karuuna | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:31 am     Yes, they were talking about tire pressure, and then cut off mid - sentence. Whatever happened, happened so quickly. A former astronaut said that building tire pressure could indicate that the protection in front of the tires had failed... the tires would expand, and possibly could explode... all speculation at this point. I worry too about those three still on the space station, and their families. I imagine all their families want is to get them home as soon as possible. I understand they are not scheduled to come home for a month tho. |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:40 am     I think it would be very wrong to cancel the space station. This is like investing in our future. Why do you think the 70's, 80's and 90's were so productive for this country as manufacturing fell. It was all the new research that was need to feed the appetite of NASA. All that research was public! NASA was not allowed to patent anything. That is why computers flewin development ans well as light weight costruction materials, plastics, insullation, wiring, etc. To end tis program because some people die (I am not being deliberately callous, I feel too) would be to deny humanity it's last chance to rise above this mundane earth and to fulfill it's true manefest destiny! |
Kaili | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:46 am     I agree- a horrible accident happened and they need to look into it obvioulsy but to scrap the program- I don't see that happening. Too much money has been invested if nothing else. I understand what you mean about "because some people die". I agree- it's not that I don't care because I do very much but we don't scrap commercial flights due to a plane crash and we don't eliminate cars because people die in car accidents (1000s a day I'm sure). Trains aren't stopped due to derailments. I think we need to mourn, investigate, and move on with the program. |
Kaili | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:48 am     Bush should be on any minute to address nation... |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:52 am     I am afraind of the NASA budget, because it was cut last year and there are looming deficits. I feel that it is most vulnerable to being cut because of the emotions that will come with today's events and that people don't really recognize the value of the programs since it is not cut and dried, instant profit. GE bought RCA and the first thing they did was close the research department. That is why I do not like the next quarter profit mentality and that is why I fear forthe space program. |
Karuuna | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:05 am     I don't think the program will be cancelled, since it has become more of an international program (altho we bear the costs). I do think it needs to be put on hiatus until the cause of this accident is clear - with the possible exception being a trip to pick up the remaining astronauts on the space station. |
Kaili | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:12 am     I just foundout that one of the astronauts- one of the women- was from the town that I grew up in. Hearing that, I remember the news talking about her awhile back and I was thinking that's kind of neat she's from Racine. Laurel Clark- that's her name- she was the flight surgeon- i wonder if my mom knew her- my mom is a nurse so it may be possible she worked at one of the hospitals at some point. |
Wiseolowl | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:16 am     Like many people all over the world I'm watching with sadness and great interest as the news coverage continues. Just a few random thoughts. You immediately think of the grief that the families are now suffering, but I also wonder what is going through the minds of the families of Challenger who lost their loved ones some 17 years ago. They have gone through their time of grief: those who were children have grown up , maybe some of the spouses have remarried - but what painful memories this tragedy must bring back to them. I think too of the I believe 7 soldiers who died last week in the helicopter crash in Afghanistan who gave their lives in just as noble a cause in serving their country - but unlike the astronauts ,who eagerly assumed the risk, these guys I'm sure were serving their mission without eagerness - and yet the flags of America didn't fly at half mast for them - and the networks didn't even interupt the daily soap operas to report their loss. I wonder to what extent the news networks extensive coverage of these events, which they know will get good ratings itself magnifies people's sense of loss and makes the event a national tragedy over and above other terrible accidents that result in even greater loss. |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:24 am     Dan Rather on, Pressing people for an answer about the future of the space program. He was near tears all this morning covering this news - Dan's the man, on top of what is important - Anyway, the governement said no more shuttles will be built,but they will go on to build the next thing. Hope it is the space elevator. Although the best place to build that is not in this country and it m=ight be suceptible to terrorism. |
Kaili | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:25 am     CNN is on the phone with Walter Cronkite talking about the same thing- how long it took after Apollo 13, after Challenger... |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:32 am     So NASA is focusing on the left wing which was hit by the foam. Already discussed that one of the first pieces that broke off was light colored and indicated that it might be a tile section |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:34 am     New film on. You can clearly see a flat White section tumbling on CBS. |
Karuuna | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:35 am     WiseOwl makes a wise point. I think the difference in this case might be that accidents involving military aircraft have become, unfortunately, very common. The more frequently something like that happens, the less likely it is to make the news. At some point, I would hope that the accumulated number of accidents involving these aircraft would raise interest in an investigation in what is happening... That's also been the case with the shuttle missions. So many have come and gone uneventfully in the years since Challenger, they barely make the news, until today. My heart just grieves for the families, and most especially the children who have lost parents - whether in this tragic accident, or the one in Afghanistan. |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:43 am     Life has it's many tradgedies. It is a sad state of affairs where few watch take offs or landings of the space program any more unless there is a disaster. However, that is the wonder of it also, that such a great thing can become common place. That is the wonder of the space program. Did you go to the mars web site to control the mars lander? I enjoyed that a lot and made my brother take his some there, even though he was too young to know. It is some thing to celebrate the lives of these people whjo were living their dreams rather than becoming couch potatoes. Living and acomplishing great things is a gift given to a few of us. |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:47 am     oh NO, now Kay Baily Hutchinson is spinning NASA as very important to national defense! Does that mean that they are going to put weapons on the space station. At least she mentioned medical research. But uis that because she is from Texas and it would mean money for her state or is it because some politicians see this as a great advance? I guess I don't trust many politicians much any more, especially ones that vote for limiting some medical protections. Worry, worry, worry. |
Sadiesmom | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:55 am     OK, If I have not driven you all off with my crazed nuerosis, CBS now discussing how this is not like an airplane crash where they have to retrieve the black box. NASA gets real time second by second readouts on the entire mission. They probably know more than what they are saying. So we can take comfort in the knowledge thatthis accident will be solved. |
Wiseolowl | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:08 pm     Politics and the Space program have always been interrelated. Had the Soviets not launched Sputnic it is doubtful that NASA would have ever grown to a tenth of the size that it has Kennedy very effectively used the supposed failure of the previous administration to keep America ahead of the Soviets and alot of people got scared in that Cold War era when everybody was a little bit paranoid. Then he announced that America would land a man on the moon within the decade and massive funding was poured in to the program - many at the time questioned the mission arguing that resources could be used for better space projects and science historians still make that argument - but there was too much politically at stake to reverse it. I suspect that trying to outdo the soviets was a more important goal for most politicians and problably the majority of citizens than the scientific and exploration ones. And yes NASA is important to national defence - I'm no expert but from what I have read , NASA's work has contributed to the development of the modern weapons systems that limited loss of life in the Gulf War - both soldiers' and civilians - and will do so even more in a future conflict. Am so disappointed how some posters need to politicize just about every thread on the board. For petes sake somebody was questioning why "Bush" hadn't made a statement an hour after the event when people in the Mountain and Pacific Zones were just waking up - give us a break please. |
Schoolmarm | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:08 pm     From an organist's list I am on... Tune: Melita (This is the Navy Hymn..."On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand" among other texts.) Lord, guard and guide the men who fly Though the great spaces in the sky. Be with them always in the air, In darkening storms or sunlight fair; Oh, hear us when we lift our prayer, For those in peril in the air! Aloft in solitudes of space, Uphold them with Thy saving grace. Thou Who supports with tender might The balanced birds in all their flight. Lord, if the tempered winds be near, That, having Thee, they know no fear. --from The Cyber Hymnal, http://http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/e/t/eternalf.htm In Memory of the Columbia Seven: Rick Husband William McCool Michael Anderson David Brown Kalpana Chawla Laurel Clark Ilan Ramon February 1, 2003 -- |
Hippyt | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:18 pm     The local news is telling people north of us to go out and search their properties for debris. One man called in with an 8X12 inch piece sitting in his drive way. He said the lines are all tied up,and when he did get through,they told him watch it,don't touch it,we'll get to you eventually. It was still sitting in his yard. They are also airing the side effects of coming into contact with the chemicals involved in the debris. And in Nacogdoches,20 people have shown up in the ER. |
Hippyt | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:22 pm     SchoolMarm,that's beautiful. |
Cyn | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:25 pm     OMG - I was afraid of this. I am praying for all those in the area to be safe; and, of course, the brave families who always step up to give when it is necessary. These people were great scholars and our world is once again stripped of its brightest. Yes I am depressed. |
Ginger1218 | Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:37 pm     Has anyone heard that the breakup was over Palestine, Texas? I find that odd. |
|