Archive through February 13, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: 2003 February: The Female Breast Thread: Discussion: Archive through February 13, 2003

Sabbatia

Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit, I think you just hit the nail on the head here. You said people TALKED about groping. That's all adven did was make a joke about doing it. Nobody was groped. I think the real issue of this debate is that some of us see breasts as a sexual thing, and others don't. Personally, I don't. Maybe that's because mine have been to the Dr so much. Maybe it's because men have them too. Shoot, I've seen some men with breasts bigger than mine. I've known a couple of guys with a foot fetish. That didn't keep me from wearing sandals around them...or teasing them about it. Ears and bellys can be just as much of an erogenous zone on most people as breasts. We all have our personal preferences. We joke about those....but breasts are off limits. Why? It's a cultural thing. Maybe some of the groping in this would could be eliminated if breasts were not treated as a taboo subject. If they weren't considered a special thing, maybe people wouldn't want to touch them. Proof in point? I go around topless most of the time at home. The Dh's friends ask him how he deals with that. He tells them he doesn't even notice anymore. When you make something off limits, it just makes it more tempting.

Karuuna

Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't agree at all. it's not okay to joke about being raped, or cutting off penises, even if you don't intend to do it, and you just talk about it. I don't happen to see any kind of unwanted advance (like groping) as any different. I get that other people draw the line differently. But this thread asked why some people were offended.


Sab, I have to admit, I don't like what seems to be implied by your posts, that women/society are to blame for getting groped? Because they prefer to be modest? Okay, I know when to shut up. :)

Good night.

Whit4you

Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Don't think she was saying that society is to blame for women getting groped but that it was to blame for jokes about it... ie it's something taboo... something we are supposed to hide... so it's therefore something men naturally are interested in (the same with ankels in some countries) If breasts were not something to hide or have to feel modest about ... then there'd really be little to joke about breasts would be a dime a dozen like noses...

If he'd said he is doing a study on noses and he'd groped a few noses....

anyhow - this has been intersting - thanks for the feedback Karu - have a good night {{{ hug }}}}

Sabbatia

Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Karuuna, I'm not implying that at all. I AM one of those people that was groped by a family member when I was 10 or 11. I did nothing to cause it.

What I've been trying to say is the reason we have controversy over this topic is because of what people consider sexual and what people don't, is cultural. It's what we are used to. It's what we are taught, at home and in society. It's good to be modest. I wear clothes outside of the house.

Some of us relate breasts to sex, some of us see them as either groceries or two chunks of fat that we carry around that make our back hurt. Those that see them as groceries or chunks of fat, obviously aren't gonna be the ones doing the groping. Taking this to the far far extreme....how many people do you think get groped in a nudist community as compared to the number of people that get groped at a topless bar? The nudists consider the body just a body, the people in the topless bar see it in a sexual way.

Sabbatia

Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You got it Whit!!

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 02:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I know this sounds crazy...and it was...

Someone got arrested for grabbing my butt one time.

I was staying with my mom in the hospital and left to go home to sleep late one evening and a guy came up behind me and grabbed me and groped my butt.

I had a big bag over my shoulder and hauled off and whopped the heck out of him and started calling him every dirty name I knew at the top of my voice.

He let me go and took off running. I went into the hospital and they called the police. I honestly was just kind of surprised and puzzled... when the policeman came, he immediately put out a call to have the police cars search the area (they caught him). He took me to the station to press charges...and I remember asking...what charge...he didn't hurt me... and the cop said..."Well you didn't ask him to grope you did you?"

There was this big hoopla...the guy had been lurking in the waiting rooms stalking women leaving alone. He had done the same following women out of the big grocery store.

My point is... he touched me...my reaction was more surprise...I honestly never felt upset for some reason (probably because I beat him up and he did not have a weapon or hurt me).

Oh...if he had groped my breast instead of my butt, I would have felt the same thing. I don't know...I lost my point in this story!..Dang.

Ddr1135

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 03:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
This is going on where I live. The following is a post from the local TV Channel website:

Foot fondler
[Posted: Tuesday, February 11 2003 @ 7:01 AM]

New Iberia police have logged three more reports by women who say a man has approached them in area stores, commented on their footwear and then touched their feet. The latest accounts place the fondler in Winn-Dixie, Lowe's and Wal-Mart stores in Iberia parish. The stories closely match similar accounts in Vermilion, Lafayette and St. Mary parishes. New Iberia police have said the foot fondler, if caught, could face charges ranging from simple battery to felony stalking.

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah... mine was a butt fondler. He had a fetish they said. He tried to use some kind of psychological defense, but they sent him to jail for a while.

My point (I guess this is pretty dumb..but it is honestly how I felt) was that I didn't feel violated at all....just surprised. I was also a little surprised at my own reaction. I think you really never know how you react to something like that and I didn't really pause to think...I just hauled off and beat the crap out of the guy...scared him more than he scared me. Reflex I guess.

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, I know I said I was done and I know that I'm repeating myself here, but hated to see Karuuna out here all alone!

I just didn't find it funny. Sometimes someone here will make an off-the-cuff innuendo that I will find uproarious (Tabby used to do that all the time), but an entire thread devoted to boob jokes and breast talk was way over the top for me to enjoy in this forum. I'd prefer to keep such joking and discussion among my friends and family where I know the person, their motivations for the joke, and that the joking is harmless.

Whit, none of us who mentioned the breast cancer thing even implied that it was wrong of anyone else who dealt with it to laugh at such humor. We simply offered that up as a reason why it may or did slant our view of the humor. We all react differently.

I am very, very sorry for your loss. {{{Whit}}}

Okay, I just previewed this message and I originally said t!t jokes and it was red-dotted out. Explain to me why we can have a whole thread about such jokes that included puns on that word and other slang words for breasts, but the word itself is considered offensive enough to red-dot out. That, to me, proves a huge point for Karuuna's camp.

Stick a fork in me now.

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I thought I was done. Car, I was fondled on the butt by a stranger in a pet store when I was an adolescent. I did feel violated, and terribly frightened. In fact, the man who fondled me had a beard and it was years and years before I could feel anything but revulsion to men with beards. The trauma of inappropriate touching can be very real.

<edited for spelling>

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hermione, I totally understand that you felt that way. If you read my post, I was, and am still very puzzled that I did not.

I think it is just that I do not view my body or body parts that way...I am not sure. In real life, I am a very private and publicly modest person. I am not, however uncomfortable with any
part of the human body or what happens with human bodies. Boobs, butts, farts, poop, burps, zits..whatever..everybody has em..everybody does it...nothing special.


I truly do hear you when you express your feelings about this. I hope you can hear me the same way without feeling that because I don't feel the same way you do...that I don't hear you or understand you. That is not accurate.

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 05:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Totally, Car, I do. You express yourself very eloquently. :)

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 05:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, I just noticed that when I said "edited for spelling" in one of my posts above that I misspelled spelling. I think that is pretty funny, LOL.

Jed245

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 06:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris, I think I need to clear something up. :o) In reference to what you said in this thread...

<I am posting this not because I want to "shut a thread down" and I find it interesting that someone would suggest that because I find something objectionable I am somehow trying to shut a thread down.>

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to shut the thread down. And I certainly didn't say anything against you being objectionable to the thread. I was merely asking why you were pursuing the issue? As for my comment about e-mailing the moderators being a more effective means of shutting it down, that was me talking out a few possibilities of your seeming pursuit of the thread. :o)

I DID however, say that it was good that you could be open and honest enough to express your opinion of the thread. And doing so as a first voice is definitely agood quality.

I was simply asking why pursue beyond expressing your feelings? And, for the record, my feelings on the thread still remain unknown. :o)

Jed. :o)

Maris

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 06:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I hope I wasnt being objectionable. :o)

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 07:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hermione, I thought you did it on purpose! :)

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 07:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Unfortunately, no. And I also misspelled trauma and didn't catch it. Grrrrrr! LOL! :) back at you!

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 07:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
(I hate misspelling words, can you tell???)

Djgirl5235

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi Everyone!

I am in the camps of Herm (of course it shouldn't be any surprise as we share a mind) and Karuuna... I had an issue with the other thread, simply because breasts have always been an issue with me so I chose to not read or participate in that thread.

I was very well endowed, VERY early in life. By the time I was 11, I was a 42 DD, and very very very self-conscious. At the age of 11 I was given the nick-name BBB = Big, Bad & Bouncy. My self-esteem through the ages of 11 - 17 took a downward spiral since I was so self-conscious of my breasts. By the time I was 17, I had spoken to my doctor about the problems I was having, plus he had noticed a large weight loss that I had just gone through and noted that the one thing that didn't change with the weight loss was my breasts and recommended surgery for a reduction.

I can tell you that it was the BEST decision I have ever made, and my self-esteem really sky-rocketed after the surgery. I am very comfortable talking about my decision, however, I am not and never have been comfortable with breast jokes, as I have felt that "men" (please note the quotations, as I'm not trying to say ALL men, but a majority) tend to objectify women based on their breast size. I can't tell you how offended I have been over the years at the comments that have been said about my own "rack" or comparing mine to someone elses... Not nice comments, and not any that I wish to repeat.

I too have experienced the loss of one of my favourite aunt's to breast cancer, and was sitting across the kitchen table from my mom when she found her tumour, as well as the fact that I will never meet my bf's mom after she passed away from cancer (breast & ovarian), breast jokes just don't sit well with me.

Now...before I sound really like I'm on a soapbox, because I find them in bad taste, doesn't mean that I find the person telling them to be a creep... quite the opposite... what's funny to one person, most of the time isn't funny to me. I don't fault my bf for enjoying the Austin Powers movies, or There's Something About Mary... I do not find them funny, and most of the humour in those movies is either extremely stupid (IMO), or in very bad taste (IMO once again), but I don't hold that against the person that finds it funny.

Okay... I'm going to shut up now, and hope that no-one hates me....

Karuuna

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Herm & DJ, thanks for your posts. I have to admit that after my experiences in this thread yesterday, I truly wished I hadn't posted here at all. I find it odd that the person who started this thread seemed to express a real interest in understanding why some people found his joke offensive, but has pretty much shown no interest in following up the conversation.

That said, to a certain degree, I agree that humor is in the eye of the listener (huh?). It is certainly a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself, and to be light-hearted and not take things too seriously.

At the same time, there is a line beyond which humor is at someone else's expense, rather than a shared joke. Some things are clearly on one side or the other, and there's a middle area that differs by individuals.

I think it's courageous and brave of those who have posted here or have spoken to me privately, who have expressed their willingness to reflect about how their humor may hurt others, and are kind and sensitive enough to honor those feelings, even if they disagree.

Hermione69

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Off topic, but who corrected my spelling for me??? What lovely moderator corrected my spelling for me above after I posted about that? How sweet!

Karuuna and DJ, check your folders later today. :)

I too want to express my gratitude to all the posters who were able to discuss this without making it personal.

Fluff

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think everyone is right

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, but Fluff, you are easy. :)

Car54

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Or is it heezy? :)

Fluff

Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I prefer heezy. Cuz easy just sounds sleezy.