Family Told Transplant Victim Brain Dead
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: 2003 February: Family Told Transplant Victim Brain Dead

Whoami

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is too sad! I'll provide the link, since the story itself is somewhat lengthy for a post. But, I'm going to copy/paste a few excerpts that inspire a response in me.

Transplant Patient

"Kurt Dixon said the Santillan family wanted to bring in an outside physician to confirm the diagnosis, but was denied permission."

Denied permission of a second opinion? Since when is this legal?


"Based on the results of these tests, Jesica's doctors have pronounced that Jesica has died," Dixon said."


She's still on life support, and officially alive. But the doctors are God I guess and can say, "ok, I now proclaim she is dead."

"Fulkerson pointed out that the second set of organs was found "in days" - under two weeks, compared to the three years Jesica had spent on a waiting list before the first operation."

This smacks of "you should feel lucky, we could have made you wait another three years." Not to mention it implies they can get organs "any time" and that original three year wait was all politics.

Follow up comments....three people are likely dead because of this. The person who could have benefitted from the original set of organs, Jesica, and the person who was so obviously skipped over to recieve that second set of organs, when Jesica was put on priority in a PURE CYA move by the hospital.

One news report earlier said the hospital originally tried to cover up the mistake as soon as they realized what they had done.

They are spending so much time pointing fingers at each other, and saying, "hey, it wasn't MY fault," they are not even concerned about HOW the breakdown in communication happened, and how to set guidlines that something like this won't happen again.

Maris

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I feel terrible for this girl but I think Dixon is way off base. If it was politics then they would have given the organs to someone who lived in this country instead of a girl from Mexico. I dont think the hospital did this as a CYA I am sure that the people and they are people running the hospital felt horrible about this critical error and did everything they could to put her at the top of the list to rectify it. If it had been my daughter, I would have fully expected doctors and hospitals around the country to rally to try and save her.

The doctors were the first to admit they made a horrible error and the hospital at no time did not take responsibility for the mistake. The hospital and the doctor admitted that the doctor did not check the blood type. All reports I have read indicate that the doctors immediately told the mother what had happened and admitted the mistake.

I dont think this is a case of an evil hospital, imagine how you would feel if you were the doctor, the hospital administrator - the guilt must be horriffic. I know I saw the hospital administrator at a press conference before she had received the second transplant and he was crying. I dont think they were crocodile tears.

This guy Dixon is not helping the family at all. The poor mother is refusing to turn off the life support because she is waiting for another miracle and believes one will happen. There has been no brain activity in 24 hours. The girl is legally dead. Dixon would be more than an ambulance chaser to me if he could help the mother deal with and face the loss of her daughter. Then he can file his lawsuits.

Whoami

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris, just to clarify. In the above posts, the italics are excerpts from the article. The reguar type are my comments. I'm not sure if Dixon is yelling politics. That was my doing. Also, it has always been my impression that hospital politics are not about who is from what country, but whose family has the most money. In this case, the "politics" after the fact were about salvaging thier damaged image. Just my opinion.

I'll admit I didn't see any news reports when they interviewed the hospital staff. I've only seen the follow up reports after she recieved the second transplant. I've just been going by the articles I've been reading.

Maris

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who, it is such a tragedy and a horrible horrible mistake. All reports indicate the girl even without the mistake had a 50 - 50 chance with a transplant, she was only 85 pounds when she had the first operation and was incredibly weak. She was basically dying before the transplant and the doctors all knew she would probably die with the second operation but they just couldnt not do it. What else could they do?

Maris

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is from CNN - a slightly diffrent interpretation:


"The family will pursue a second opinion before agreeing to turn off life support, the attorney said, though the hospital is saying a second opinion is not needed."

That is slightly different than refusing permission. The thing is legally, the hospital can declare her dead if there is no brain activity. From what I saw this morning on CNN, their medical correspondent said that the hospital actually can disconnect the machines against the parents wishes and the hospital can declare her dead if there is no brain activity. It is going to be tough to watch this unfold because the mother is refusing to allow the machines to be turned off and will not allow her daughter to get last rites.

Goddessatlaw

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
AP is reporting that Jesica has died after being taken off life support.

Maris

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
That is sad news. The poor girl.

Ginger1218

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Poor girl, to have suffered for so many years and to have it end this way. I feel like crying.

Sawheel17

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 04:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It breaks my heart. Thanks Whoami for starting this thread. I've been so sad today.Usually I try to think so positive but all the tragedies lately are just to overwhelming.

Squaredsc

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 04:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
this was a terrible tragedy and unfortunately mistakes happen. i feel very sorry for her and her family.

Kristylovesbb

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 05:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just read here that Jesica died and my heart goes out for this family. It is unreal the heartache this family has had to endure and I feel so sorry for them.

Pamy

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 06:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is a sad story, my heart goes out to the family. I read the family smuggled the little girl into country illegally so she could get the transplant, anyone else hear that?

Marysafan

Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 06:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is especially sad for me. My little brother (age 36) had a heart transplant 3 years ago. You cannot even begin to imagine the stress the entire family goes through. My brother was in the hospital for six months waiting for a heart with only 8% of his heart functioning.

My father came down with shingles, my mother nearly had a complete nervous breakdown. The siblings suffered, his wife and children suffered.

The transplant patients develop their own community as no one could possibly understand what they have been through.

I wear a green ribbon to signify my support for organ donors everywhere. My brother and my parents have met the donors mother and his brother. There is a bond there that is unlike any other.

The odds were against this from the beginning...but someday ...it will be a routine procedure.

My heart goes out the the family.

Sbw

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 10:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Pamy, I read they paid a smuggler to get her in the US.

Kristylovesbb

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 03:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Marysafan, just read your post. So sorry your family had to go through such a horrific time. I panic if something small happens to someone in my family and I cannot imagine what you must have went through. It seems your brother must be doing well now, I hope.

Marysafan

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 04:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes Kristy, my brother is doing very well now.
He literally got his life back. It was a very stressful time...every day you woke up wondering if today would be the day he would get a new heart or...would this be the day the old heart would give out. He hung on to life by a thread. We lived on that edge for a long time. It takes a toll.

The doctors were amazed that he lasted as long as he did. Thankfully, it was long enough. He still takes lots of meds and goes for regular check ups...so far so good.

One thing I would like everyone to know...my brother met a lot of very nice people when he was in the hospital. They came from all walks of life. Rich and poor were treated equally. No matter how much money you had...you couldn't buy an organ.

Kristylovesbb

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 04:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So glad to hear your brother is doing well and I loved the last paragraph. Makes you hearts day knowing the rich and the poor are treated equally, love that part.

Melfie1222

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 07:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This was in my local paper today, an article reprinted from the Charlotte Observer:

"The family declined a request from Carolina Donor Services to donate Jesica's organs, Duke spokesman Merritt said. Duke did not say exactly which organs could have been harvested."

I'm not sure what to think or feel about that...I don't know how this works.. does an organization like the one mentioned above request a donation whether or not they know there are viable organs? Or does a doctor or team determine that there is a possibility and only then present the question to the family?

Maris

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 07:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I know the hospital asked the family about her donating organs before the plug was pulled and the mother said no. I could certainly understand why she said no. Its like, well they didn't work in your daughter maybe they will with someone else. Remember the organs did not fail her, she suffered brain damage because of being on the heart lung machine. The organs were viable.

Melfie1222

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When I read that article today, it didn't even occur to me to think of the organs Jesica had received, and the article didn't mention when the family was asked... my first thought was, if she had already been pronounced brain dead could she still possibly have had other parts to donate - kidneys, liver, corneas... and is that what the Carolina Donor Services might have been asking from Jesica's family?

But what you mentioned Maris... brings another question to my mind. I guess I don't understand why the family would say no in turn to donating to someone else not only the organs Jesica already had, but also the ones she had received, if they were also still viable.

What you said about them telling the family well they didn't work in your daughter maybe they will in someone else... isn't that basically what organ donation is about?

Sawheel17

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Marysafan,

Maris

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No I didnt say they told the family that and I am sorry if you got that impression. I am saying that the mother probably felt that way. She was grief stricken and I can imagine her feelings to have the heart and lung taken out of her daughter and given again to someone else and she was asked this before they turned off the machines. The hospital asked her when they told her she was brain dead but the machines were still running. The mother probably felt her daughter had been through enough and been operated on enough. Even though she was dead.

It is impossible to know what the mother was going through.

Seamonkey

Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 09:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I understand that the second set of organs came from a directed donation.. in other words, some parent lost their child and it was a match to Jesica and they designated that she would get the organs, so it wasn't politics.

I do understand the mother not wanting to donate Jesica's organs (kidneys had failed, but corneas, there are lots of possible donations) and yet it is frustrating, since two families gave her daughter a chance at life and they probably also had a hard time with it.

I've also heard opinions that the whole second transplant really had no chance of working so there could be three people who went without organs (two lungs and a heart) and are still at risk.

Bottom line is, there aren't enough donated organs.

And it is very sad.

I saw that attorney on tv :(

All I can think is that if these people sue, it won't bring back their daughter and it may well sour many generous people who've been supporting them in so many ways since she was smuggled in.

Starfire

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 06:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
what I don't understand on the whole thing is how they gave her a second set of organs to transplant.That may sound strange to you but,my son had a heart transplant at the age of 10 and the heart was damaged when they took it from the doner. it didn't work corectly so they put him on a ecmo machine (lifesupport) so the heart wouldn"t have to work so hard. T he ecmo machine is a good/bad thing. Sometimes it does more harm than good. It ruiend his kiddneys. He would have to be on dialisis. By this time they figured out the heart was damaged, the transplanted heart was missing beats and when that happens bloodclots form. One went to the brain and he suffered a very bad stroke. They would not try for a new heart because that was the rules of the transplant program. I had my son put on comfort measues and he died in my arms on mothers day. Sorry this is so long, is still very painful after 7 years.

Grannyg

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Starfire, I am so sorry for the heartache you still feel. I am sure when these things happen you are reminded all over of again of what happened. Hugs to you and your family.

((((((((((starfire and family)))))))))))))))

Maris

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am so sorry Starfire, my heart goes out to you. My best friend's father died six months after his heart transplant and he never left he hospital. Many people dont realize just how tough the odds are on heart transplants and also how difficult it is for the patient. Another friend of mine's brother died waiting for his transplant.

Cassie

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
<All I can think is that if these people sue, it won't bring back their daughter and it may well sour many generous people who've been supporting them in so many ways since she was smuggled in.>

Emm...could someone explain to me how people from another country can come here and have transplant surgery done when so many Americans are denied health care for lack of insurance? Were the family rich enough to afford to pay for the surgery? And finally, why did she need to be "smuggled" in? I'm confused.

Sawheel17

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Cassie, From what I know, you have to have money, ins. or some kind of coverage to be put on a list. Once you're on the waiting list,it doesn't matter how much money you have. They take into account of your % of heart function, age, etc. Your overall health in general. Then you wait until availability. In this case, I don't understand all the circumstances. I do know there are not enough donors. My heart goes out to you Star.

Pamy

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Starfire...my heart goes out to you. I can not imagine what you went thru {{{Starfire}}}

Squaredsc

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
((((((Starfire)))))

Kristylovesbb

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 01:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Starfire my heart goes out to you.

Maris

Monday, February 24, 2003 - 02:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If anyone is interested I started a thread regarding legalities in Hot Topics. Since this topic hits close to home, I dont want to upset anyone by pursuing the discussion in here.

Starfire

Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thankyou everyone for your kind words and hugs.Yesterday was a bad day for me. Somedays are easier than others.