Archive through November 01, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: I need some parenting advice about racism:
Archive through November 01, 2002
Hippyt | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:55 pm     OKay,the title is a little misleading,but not much. Here's the deal, My son,Griffin,is five,today we were messing around and he was rhyming a song and said 'nigga.' It was obvious to me he had heard it somewhere,and didn't think it would be offensive. I held my cool,but I thought my head would explode. I asked him where he heard that,and turns out it was from his best friend,Thomas.Thomas is black.Thomas and his brother Trey spend hours on hours at my house. The parents of these children are absolute sweethearts. My question is how do you explain to your child that this is not a good thing to say? My parents dealt with race soooo bad in my childhood,and it's so touchy. Bascially,I don't ever want to hear 'nigga' coming out of my white child's mouth. But,I also don't want to inadverantly teach him about racism at such a young age.I also don't want him to get his butt kicked out of school for saying that. |
Whoami | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:26 pm     You know, I saw a family show with just this type of scenario. The youngest (white) boy had a group of black friends, that referred to each other that way. Innocently, the white boy followed suit, only to incure the wrath of the group of boys. They said it was okay for them to talk to each other that way, but not okay for him to talk to him like that. I wish I could remember which show it was, and what the final outcome was. To me, it's appalling for anyone to use that word, and being African-American is no excuse to use that word! I think your son is old enough to have it explained to him that there are some people in this world who choose to judge another person based only on their race. And that these types of people have often used this word to define someone else in a negative way. You should point out to him that in your family, you do not judge a person by the way they look, dress, etc. For that reason, the word in unacceptable in your family, regardless of whether or not some of his friends think it's a cool word to use. Your family finds the word offensive, and therefore he will not use it. I might even approach the other boy's parents, letting them know you've heard your boy use the word, and where he says he learned it. Let them know in a way that you are just letting them know, "in case they wanted to know." Not as an accusation, but as an informative friend. Something like, "I thought you may want to know about this. It's none of my business if you choose to do something about it, but I wanted you to know we've told our son it's unacceptable for him to use this word." Unfortunatly, as soon as your son is around other kids, he will learn of racism, bigotry, and a whole slew of unsavory societal shortcomings. If he's prepared for it, he can take it in stride. If he gets "hit in the face" with it on his first day of school, no telling how it will teach him to interact in a social setting. Case in point: my little sister LOVED her vegetables. At any meal, she ate her vegetables before anything else. Almost after the first day of school, she refused to eat her vegetables any more. I can just see her sitting down to her first lunch with her new schoolmates, and someone exclaims, "eeeewwww, your'e eating your vegetables. Don't you know vegetables are icky!" |
Llkoolaid | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:39 pm     I don't know the answer to your question, but I wonder if talking to Thomas's parents about the situation and explaining how you feel would help. Maybe you all could sit down with the boys and explain how hurtful the word can be. It is so tricky when you have to mess with your childs innocence. When you tell him he shouldn't use the word he is going to want to know why, so you may have to explain. You might be able to get away with, " that is not a word that we like to use in this house because it hurts people" and being 5 he may just drop it, but probably not. He is probably going to wonder why Thomas can say it and not him. I am really no help because I don't know how you can teach him not to say it and still shelter him from learning about racism. He is school age so maybe it would be better if he heard it from you rather than on the school ground. Hope you get some advice from someone who can really help you. |
Sia | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:40 pm     It is strange to me that rap-music (which might be where your son's friends have picked up the word, T) heavily over-uses that term. |
Llkoolaid | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:42 pm     I knew someone wiser than me would come along and she did while I was posting. |
Whit4you | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:58 pm     I think 5 is a bit young to get to heavy with this... if it were my child I'd say something like this...... When someone is overweight - and they say "I'm fat" it's ok - but it's not ok for other people to call that person fat. That word you used, is hurtful to some people so you shouldn't say it, your friends who have dark skin - when they say it THEY don't consider it a bad word, so you don't need to tell them it's a 'bad word' but you shouldn't use that word because it can hurt someone else. I"d make it very very clear that I'm not mad at him and that he has done nothing wrong - just that in the future he shouldn't use the word. I really don't think at 5 teaching him the WHY's of why he shouldn't use the word is necissary... just that HE shouldn't use it and that because of circumstances it's not a 'bad word' when his friends with dark skin use it - this way he won't think THEY are saying a bad word - even if they are... ya don't want your little 5 year old making enemies ya know lol. |
Whoami | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:18 pm     You make a very good point there Whit. Especially about not wanting him to think his friends are "bad." I guess where I was coming from was when my nieces and nephew were all under 5, and we'd all go out on an outing. I'd often make corrections on behavior and such, with just a quick "why." For instance, instead of "don't go out in the street, or a car will hit you." I'd say something like, "I think it would hurt a lot to get hit by a car, don't you?" When they say, "yes," I'd finish it with "well, let's stay here on the sidewalk, where it's safe." Yes, I know, if a kid is running out in the street, you don't want to have a ten minute converstion with them, you want to get them out of the street first!. The conversation is for after they are safe, and letting them know why they shouldn't go back out in the street. I once apologized to my sister, telling her I didn't mean to offend her, or overstep my bounds by stepping in from time to time like that. She said she actually appreciated it a lot, and that they responded most to me cause I reasoned with them. Now, I know that the way you approach a child has 100% to do with how ready that child is to take the "heavy" approach. Some are ready at 5, some are not. And I'm sure you know if your boy is. One of the most impressive things I saw regarding the reasoning with a child, and giving them a sense of choice was when I spent the night with a friend, and her then three-year-old. Apparantly, when the parents had beer, they would sometimes allow the child a sip out of their bottle (whether that practice in itself is acceptable or not is a whole other issue). My friend had opened a beer, and the boy asked for a sip. She started to hand him the bottle, then remembered the boy was on cold medicine, and took it away. Naturally, the boy began to cry and carry on. She told him, "look, you are taking medicine because of your cold. If you drink beer when you are taking medicine, it can make you more sick, and even die." Then, wordlessly, she handed the bottle back out to the boy. The boy shook his head no, and walked away. That a three-year-old boy could/would make that serious a choice is what impressed me. He'd obviously been taught that there are consequenses for various actions. He was informed of the consequence, and decided a sip of beer was not worth it. |
Whoami | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:39 pm     You know, I've had this thought before. And I'm gonna run with it. Hope it's not too OT, though it does have to do with bigotry, judging others, etc. Your analogy of "I'm fat," "you're fat" made me remember Whit. Using the Fat analogy...... The minute you tell a child that calling someone "fat" is wrong. You have also susequently told him that being fat is wrong. Think about it. It's okay to tell someone they have blond hair, blue eyes, etc, Cause it isn't deemed by society as "bad." But, since society has decided being fat is bad, it's therefore bad to call a person fat. Does that make any sense? I can remember my sister coming down hard on my niece one day, when she described me as "the one with the big butt." Now, my sister loves me to death, and will defend me on any level. She has hated the way our other sister will berate me and make fun of my weight. She has never made issue about how big I am. Yet, that day, I was a bit more disturbed by the way my sister came down on my niece. Cause by forbiding my niece to aknowledge my weight, she in turn told me my weight is a "bad thing." |
Crossfire | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:52 pm     Hmmm...unfortunate grammar error. Hehehe. |
Whoami | Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:08 pm     Who, me Crossfire? Trying to re-read my posts, and find my grammar error......hoping I didn't make too much a fool of myself.... |
Whit4you | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:20 am     Well Whaomi since we are off topic - lemme tell you it's not really fair in reverse... I never understood why it was OK for people to tell me day in and day out constantly that I was 'too skinny' - I was perhaps 10 lbs underweight - and yet I heard that day in and day out for years. That seems to be ok but if someone were 10 lbs over weight it's not ok to say 'your too fat' day in and day out. People might think it's a 'compliment' to say "Your too skinny' but trust me it's not fun hearing that 50 times a week for years. Today I'd pay someone to say that to me but it's alot different when you hear it constantly. So basically what I'm saying is I think saying 'your too fat' is not saying the person is bad - but it's rude to say it, because it's projecting your definition of 'fat' onto them. If someone is say 150 lbs over weight then saying it is simply pointless - and even ruder because duh they already KNOW they are fat. The same applies to someone 10 lbs underweight, I knew I was 'too skinny' the first 5,000 times someone said it to me I didn't need to hear it another 5,000 times. I know tis is off topic but since it's being addressed. |
Whoami | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:20 am     Oh, I understand completly about the "too skinny" comment. Although I have never experienced it myself, my mom is in the exact same boat. She is severly underweight (while at the rehab center in July, she was 30% underweight). She has complained of the very thing you mentioned. She is also absolutly sick and tired of all those weight loss commercials. They offend her to no end. |
Yuhuru | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:55 pm     Hippy, I think that you need to try and explain to your munchkin that you and your family do not like that word because some people find it offensive(in five year old terms). Even though this issue is a little touchy because it's the n-word, you'll find yourself in similar situations many times. Other families allow their children to do things that you may not subscribe to, certain music, clothing, dating early, etc.). This is the perfect opportunity to begin teaching your child that family rules are family rules. You may also want to talk with the parents because they may not know that their kids are saying this word. They may not want their sons to use it. They say it on the radio in many of the rap songs. Also (and most importantly for you and your son) you don't want him to say it around them and they not know that he's just mimicking their sons. They may becaome highly offended and misjudge him and more than likely you. Helpful hints: Be very casual with the parents. Don't make it an international incident. Please don't ask them why black people use the term. Please don't make it about you and your civil rights crusades, how many black friends you have, etc. (Not that you would, but racial issues make everybody a lil' crazy) Substitute "a$$" in place of the n-word and think about how you'd address it them. Good luck. I tried to put myself in the other parents' spot, and think how I'd best reiceve it. |
Secretsmile | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:31 pm     Now there is alot of great advice given here. I am adding my two cents 'cuz I'm a busy-body! I never made an issue over the words my children used in ignorance, but I did find a way that week to work the subject up again. I would talk about the 'proper' words we use when we want to be thought of as smart, then have the kids come up with a list of words that make us sound ingnorant. Yes, I used the word ignorant, I explained that ignorant wasn't stupid or dumb, but uneducated. They were very proud of being in school when they were young. This issue came up at different times and in different ways with each of my kids but they each never used the words again. As far as racial slurs, we all have pet names that aren't used by others, I'd tell him that his friends may use this word with each other, just like the names you call your family members. For example, my husbands family calls his dad The Old Man, but it's said very respectifully, as opposed to some calling him old man...that make any sense? |
Joyful | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:56 pm     My advice. Keep it simple. Tell all three boys its not allowed in your house period. Tell them you find the word extremely offensive. Make sure you tell them all at one time. If it continues tell the boys mom. You can deal with your own. |
Hippyt | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:56 pm     Great advice everyone. I was thinking more about it last night,and I decided I will talk to Thomas' Mom about it. I'm almost certain it was a song he heard. And I know his parents don't listen to rap,but he could have heard it anywhere,really.So I thought she would want to know about it too. I haven't seen her yet,but will this week. Another good reason ,like Whoami says,what if he says it at their house one time? Accck!At least she would already know that he's not allowed to say that word. We all have a really good neighborly relationship,but we haven't known each other all that long. I'd hate to get everything messed up over something like that. It's just so crazy the situations kids will put you in! You know they always say when your kid says a bad word you shouldn't make a big deal about it,because that makes it more interesting to them.I just didn't know what to do with it when he said that! And,I was thinking well,how do I explain to him why that's a bad word.Then it occured to me,if he said the f-word,I would not be telling him what it means and why he shouldn't say it! I'd just be saying 'We don't talk like that around here!' So,as far as he goes,I think I'll just let it go for now.He doesn't need that bit of ugliness in his life yet. I'll just let the Mom know,in case anything comes along down the road,and because I think she'd probably want to know. Thanks for all the advice as always you all are the BEST! |
Whit4you | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 08:15 pm     Well look since we are talking about this... I gotta say... nothing drove me crazier then my son's 2nd year in school (1st grade) I was intent on teaching him that he was NOT WRONG - but that in order for people from all over the world to understand they had some 'set' ways to spell things. HIS way ... the Sensible way.... was NOT WRONG - just not the way that he should spell things in order to get a A grade and be accepted. I'm a Galleger fan... and I was the day my son started 1st grade. Look I'd love to tell a story - and I think I am about to but to tell it I guess I need to leave 90% of it out. But here is the bottom line.... My son...cause he had this obsessive/compulsive type mommy... who spent 20 hours a day PLAYING with him... could read entire books before he started kindergarten... "Phrehistoric" was one of his favoritte wors back then. ... his "Word bank" Which I started when he was like 2... by the time he started kindergarten consisited of a several hundred words. Look this was pre "Hooked on phonics' days. I had started working full time as in 60 hours a week as a volunteer the year my son started school there. I had so much fun I could write books on how much fun I had... but then... my son the following year went to first grade. All over the room there were words like "Ball' "Cat' "Sit' "Sat'... they were all over the room. My son lived and breathed and adored learning at that time... but then the teacher ... decided he was 'behind' ... and *I* as an overprotective mom .. who'd gotten pregnant at 15... believed it... cause everyone had told me that I was 'over protective' - cause I didn't care to have my son be a statistic...ie DEAD. At any rate by that time - I had come to believe I was overprotective...and when this teacher... GAVE MY 1st grade son an F in hand writting in his first quarter of first grade.... I was like WHAT????? I went in for a conference with this teacher- keep in mind at that point I was in the building 30+ hours a week and was like worshipped by everyone but this teacher. I went in for a conference and she suggested MY son ...needed special ed.... special ed because he didn't nkow what "A' said... he didnt know what "B' said. I was like what???? She had lists all around the room - lists of basic 1st grade words like "SIT" - my son - could not tell her what S meant.. but he could read words like prehistoric factors in history" My son was able to add #'s like 53,621 +39,326 ------- pre kindergarten and yet the teacher was suggesting he needed special ed..cause he didn't know what "B" said. She brought him in.. for this conference and she gave him...some insane test..to "prove' he was not smart... he failed her little test. He might not have known what the letter "B" said all by itself but he could tell you what the term "Beautification" said and meant. So as a single young mommy...those around me won...cause I had been told so many times.. that I was 'over protective' - that I didn't fight back then. But I will tell you this - I had absolute and conctrete proof by the end of that year that this teacher was beyond bias. Proof that was so concrete that those who'd accused me for those years of being 'over protective' said "Why didn't you do something????" My son when he entered that year enjoyed learing over playing games... he lived and breathed it and cause of the way he was raised thought of it all as a game. By the end of first grade - after being failed and failed and told he was wrong about EVERYTHING... hated school and hated learing. Who knows what his life might have turned out life if I'd told that teacher what I really though of her and her list of words on the boards that my son could read with his eyes closed. Sure he might have not known what one apple and one apple would be but he did know what ... 59,234,21 + 32,163,322 was before he joined her class but she was right.. I was wrong.. he was an idiot... and in the end he's proved her right I guess. I just wish I had not listend to everyone telling me I was an over protective mom. Cause I did have concrete proof by the end of that year that this teacher was simply against my child (for real) why I don't know..... cause I'd showed her up at that first meeting??? I really don't know but my son's entire future was effected by that teacher and his first grade. |
Suitsmefine | Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 08:54 pm     Whit, OMG.....Girl, I am just SOOOOO MAD after reading your post!!!! I have had my share of run-ins with ONE teacher in particular since my children started school, and I can tell you, your story made me scream, I know ALOT of REALLY GOOD TEACHERS, but I strongly feel that if there is just one bad teacher that is allowed to teach that does not LOVE children, we are doing a disservice to our children. I FEEL SOOO BAD FOR YOU AND YOUR SON, this is just sooooo disturbing, in my family my nephew was treated that way by his 2nd grade teacher and after that he simply did not want to be there, and there was nothing that his parents could do to change his mind....He is such a bright boy with so much potential, yet the day he turned 18, He walked into the office,returned his books and walked out. I was so sad, but I couldn't blame him, that one teacher scarred him in ways that we just didn't see til it was too late...Any way, I am sending Hugs to you and wishing you the best! |
Ladytex | Monday, October 21, 2002 - 12:54 pm     Sorry that this is a little late, but I would have right at the moment stopped my son and said, "Sweetie, that is one of the words that we don't use". I'm sure you have other words that he isn't allowed to use. Just lump it in with those until he is old enough to really understand what it means and how offensive it is. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:22 pm     Hi, Hippyt. I'm with Ladytex on this one - no explanation required. When I was around 4, and my sister was around 6, my father overheard us calling each other "N"-word babies. It was something we heard in the neighborhood and other kids were laughing about, so we thought it was funny, too. Of course, we had no idea what we were talking about. To this day, over well three decades later, I remember my father telling us in no uncertain terms that we would never say that word again. He was clearly angry, but also understood we had no clue what we were saying. That was all it took for me. I've never said it since. No explanation was offered nor was it required at the time - all we needed to know was that the word was not in our vocabulary, then or ever. It was a very effective lesson, also - not only do I not use the word, no one who knows me uses it around me, either (if God forbid they would be so inclined), because they know it absolutely offends me to the core. I guess what I'm saying is "keep it simple." What is an issue for you is probably not an issue for your child at his age, except to the extent that he needs clear set of directions. |
Jed245 | Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:02 am     Well I have something to say on this matter not sure of what use it is though. I have a nephew who is 19, I also have a cousin who is 23. My nephew uses that word and he says things like "what up dog", Then there is the cousin who is into the whole hip hop scene and he often uses such words. They are both white, and have no intention of being hurtful. One uses those words because it is a popular style and goes along with the crowd and the other is following suit in a way. Yes Hip hop and rap music over use such words, but, I believe that racism isn't in the word... it's in the attitude. However, in a situation like your sons..... He is likely merely following the crowd. Too harsh of a correction "might" make someone so impressionable steer in the wrong direction. I mean if that word is bad or means something bad, then his friends who may in future refer to eachother with that word must be bad also by association with the word?? Have you thought about talking to the parents of the children your son is friends with?? A group effort may produce a better end result. Hope that is something that hasn't been repeated several times already. :o) Jed. |
Squaredsc | Friday, November 01, 2002 - 06:40 am     ok im adding my . fwiw i am an a/a. when i was a teenager rap/hip-hop was just starting. i still love and listen to a lot of rap music and consequently my kids who are boys ages 9 & 11 listen and like it also. d.h. does too. i also listen to the parental advisory cd's. some of them i let my kids hear and some i don't it depends on who the artist is and how "bad" the words are. my d.h. and i also use the "n" word with each other and our friends. but i don't allow my kids to use that word. i don't know if i am explaining this right. but i tell them that the "n" word is just like using curse words, you don't do it in my presense or out of my presense. and when you become an adult you can use whatever words you want but still not around your mother. this is kind of hard to explain. and i know that i will probably offend someone without meaning to. and it probably sounds prejudiced but i am going to put it out there. i have no problem with saying that word or hearing other a/a's say it. but the minute i hear someone outside of my race say it and no matter how its said, it immediately raises the hairs on my neck, and i take it in an offensive way. i don't know why, it just does. and there may be no reason or it. ok im off my soapbox now. |
Lumbele | Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:18 am     Square, I certainly understand why you would be offended by someone outside of your race using the "N"word. However, what still puzzles me is why African Americans use it referring to eachother without any offense taken. Do your children accept, without protest, the fact that they are not allowed to use the word although you and your husband do? I both come from and live in communities where very few blacks reside, so there is no one here to enlighten me. Hope I am not offending by asking. |
Fluff | Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:33 am     Such a touchy issue. I, too, am African-American, and I am not offended by the "n" word. I think the main reason why SOME black people are offended by the "n" word when it comes outside of the race is because they don't know how it's meant. They don't know whether the person really means harm or not. By harm, I mean calling them the "n" word to refer to its past meanings, such as ignorant, etc. I have heard people that weren't black use the word and they were only using it because the hung around black people and knew that no offense would be taken. Personally, I don't feel any black person who uses the "n" word should be offended by someone else that uses it and they don't mean any harm in it. The same thing can be said about other words, such as dog. When people refer to each other as "my dog" and such, they don't get offended because they know that the person isn't calling them a dog. Okay, I need to go. |
Juju2bigdog | Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:37 am     Juju is an excellent name for a dog.
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