Archive through November 23, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Tainted Blood Sent to Canada!: Archive through November 23, 2002

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 06:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Charges Filed in Canada Blood Case
Wed Nov 20, 8:39 PM ET

By TOM COHEN, Associated Press Writer
Link to Article
TORONTO (AP) - Police filed charges Wednesday in what is considered one of Canada's worst public health disasters, a tainted blood scandal that infected thousands of people with HIV (news - web sites) and Hepatitis C.


AP Photo

Charges Filed in Canada Blood Case
(AP Video)



The Canadian Red Cross, four doctors and an American pharmaceutical company were all charged after a five-year investigation by a Royal Canadian Mounted Police task force.


About 1,200 people were infected with HIV and thousands more contracted hepatitis C after receiving tainted blood and blood products in the 1970s and 1980s, some allegedly from U.S. prison inmates.


While no figures exist on the number of victims who died, organizations involved say there were many deaths. The Canadian Red Cross began screening donors for HIV in 1985 and for hepatitis C in 1990.


"This has been a long time coming," Tom Alloway, president of the Canadian Hemophilia Society, said of the charges. "It think it means the beginning of closure, both for victims who are still alive and the families of victims who died."


The charges include criminal negligence causing bodily harm, which carries a maximum 10-year sentence, and common nuisance by endangering the public, which is punishable by up to two years in prison.


"I want to see these individuals go to jail," said Scott Hemming, 35, a hemophiliac who contracted hepatitis C from a blood transfusion in 1987. "It is unfortunate what happened to my family, but I want to ensure it never happens to my daughter's family."


The Red Cross and the former director of its blood transfusion service, Dr. Roger Perrault, were accused of not screening out blood donors who might have had HIV. The Red Cross faces six common nuisance charges, and Perrault faces three counts of criminal negligence and seven of common nuisance.


Armour Pharmaceutical Co. of Bridgewater, N.J., was charged with criminal negligence and common nuisance, along with failing to tell the Canadian government of problems with the blood products.


Alloway said Armour's blood products were distributed in Canada after being withdrawn in the United States.


Criminal negligence charges were also filed against former Armour vice president Michael Rodell, and former government health officials John Furesz and Wark Boucher.

All four doctors and Armour also were accused of allowing Armour's HIV-infected blood-clotting product to be given to hemophiliacs.

"The Canadian public has the right to expect the safest blood and the safest blood products possible," said task force head Supt. Rod Knecht.

The task force was formed in 1997 after a judge's report on the Canadian blood system criticized the Red Cross and the government for problems that allowed the tainted blood scandal to occur.

Lawsuits and compensation packages involving the Red Cross and the federal and provincial governments include the creation of a $711 million government fund for those infected.

Armour is a subsidiary of Rhone-Poulenc Rorer Inc. of Collegeville, Penn.

Link Added (22)

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 06:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"Imagine if the nation suddenly learned that, as governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton knowingly oversaw the illicit sale of state prison blood to Canadian hemophiliacs and others -- spreading AIDS and other deadly diseases to hundreds, perhaps thousands, in the 1980s.

My guess is that a scandal like that could potentially do more than destroy President Clinton's historical legacy. It could ruin Al Gore's chances for succession. It could set back the Democratic Party nationally for a decade. It could help Americans regain their senses and reconstitute their naturally healthy skepticism of government benevolence.

It seems someone is trying very hard to make sure Americans never reach such conclusions. "


******************
For the rest of this article and the story of Clinton's culpability in this, follow this link:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=14746

Rissa

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hillybilly, <<<"Imagine if the nation suddenly learned that, as governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton knowingly oversaw the illicit sale of state prison blood to Canadian hemophiliacs and others -- spreading AIDS and other deadly diseases to hundreds, perhaps thousands, in the 1980s. <<<

Ehem, sir? HE DID!!!! I don't think there is any debate or disagreement... as governor Clinton was ultimately responsible for what happened, he was in charge of the program and did oversee the sale of blood. What needs to be determined is if he knew or should have known that the blood was tainted. During these years Clinton (along with the other American States) were already testing donated blood for Hep.C but he did NOT require the blood coming from the prison to be tested since it was going to Canada and we did not begin testing until 4 years later. In my opinion he used a legal loophole to skip a step which he knew could have deadly results. The blood was not treated with the same safety measures as blood collected for U.S. use.

I am not a big Clinton fan but not a "hater" either. It's simply a matter of him being where the buck stops and is responsible for State-run programs while he was Governor.

Whowhere

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
HB, where'd you get that first article?

Whowhere

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
http://www.bulldognews.net/issues_tainted_blood.html

Whowhere

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
WOW!! This is serious.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Rissa...I did not write those two paragraphs...they are excerpts straight from an article written by Joseph Farrah in 1999.

Whowhere ...here is a link to the first article. Sorry...I forgot to do that...I usually try to support whatever I post like this.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021121/ap_on_re_ca/canada_blood_scandal_6

Dahli

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 02:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This smacks of the comment I've heard over and over in the last year or so... it's not Americans that are hated, by the rest of the world so much, it's their forgeign policy.... well isn't this an example just a little too close to home...

Goddessatlaw

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know, Dahli, none of us get on here and slam Canadian anything. It would be nice if the favor were returned. Just a polite request. It's an open forum, of course, and I'm hoping maybe you didn't realize your comment would be perceived as offensive on this end.

No offense intended, Dahli - I'm just really sick of America being told it needs to solve the worlds woes with money, time, effort, military, etc. and then being told by even our closest allies that we suck. It has gotten really old.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Let me assure you, Dahli, that sending tainted blood to ANYONE (friend or enemy) is not American foreign policy. This is a bunch of immoral people committing a criminal act in the name of money. This is NOT sanctioned American policy it is a criminal act and anyone involved, no matter whether they were private pharmaceutical entities or government officials ABUSING their office, should be prosecuted.

Whit4you

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Where is there any information stating that Clinton had anything to do with the sale of blood in the 70's and 80's? I don't know much about Arkansas but I know that here in Wa state our govenor isn't involved personally in the transportation of goods - we have departments that deal with the laws on that.

From the sounds of this - someones trying to use this for a political agenda. They say 1,200 people were infected in the 70's and 80's? I honestly don't know the entire story but the 70's was 30+ years ago and most of us didn't even know what AIDS was until about '79. The crime to me would involve the parties selling and buying the tainted blood after the medical community started testing for these virus's not before. I also don't understand why it appears to be being blamed on one side - the sellers, the buyers were from the sounds of it knowningly buying tainted blood?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding this whole story - I know all reporters write with bias - especially the one saying 'imagine if" let's state some facts guy .. not "imagine if' senerios.

This is of course a tragedy for those infected - but I just think someones trying to make it a political issue or a 'American' issue, isn't the red cross in every country not just this one?

Don't know how much control the Canadains have over what their business's or their government does but here in the US we have no control over any of that.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit...I'm sure more facts and info will come to light since the case has been filed. You are right to ask for definitive facts and not just supposition. However, it is a fact that Clinton, as governor of Arkansas during this time, would have some control over blood collection from the state prison system (a government facility) and how that blood was used. My personal opinion is that I'm fairly confident he knew the blood was tainted and had an obligation to ensure that it was destroyed properly and that blood was not collected from prison inmates.

With Clinton now out of office, I see no political agenda regarding this per se. What would a political agenda using this gain anyone in office now? I just posted for informational sake and general reading.

As far as the buyers (who I assume are the Canadians), why shouldn't they assume that a legitimate commercial American company would be following federal regulations regarding screening of blood products. I find it hard to fault the Canadian side.

Zachsmom

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Regardless of where the blood was retrieved from..what was the policy at the time of screening of the blood? I hold that agency totally responsible for not proper screening. Any and all blood should have been screened by mid eighties.

Whit4you

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hill - I don't know why you'd think that Clinton would intentionally do something to kill other human beings but if that's what you think then that's your right to think it. As far as the sell of prisoner's blood back in the 70's - was Clinton even in Office then? He's not much older than I am and I was in grade school in the 70's. If the process continued WHILE he was in office - or did he start this process himself in the 70's I don't know it's not making alot of sense to me. As far as the political agenda - Clinton is still doing speaches for the dem's and will be supporting Gore should he run for pres again so - there still is political reasons to try to accuse him of from the sounds of this discussion - intentionally starting the process to sell of blood from prisoners in the 70's to Canada... to me this is implying that Clinton was a mass murderer. Like I said here in Wa state there are a # of government agencies involved in exporation of goods to other countries - our governor himself isn't the one who makes these decisions. If it is or was different in the 70's in Arkansas then that's something I don't know. I just think personally that accusing Clinton of being a mass muderer is overstepping some boundsd and definately think it's politically motivated. But this is the work of just a few reporters from what I can see - not bi-partisan independant studies etc.


Zacks - I agree with you - both those selling and those buying this blood are responsible. But from the sounds of the article the '1200' is from the 70's and 80's - don't know how many actually contracted the desease AFTER testing of blood began here and they continued to sell it and buy it untested there. Those are the cases that to me are criminal.
Hopefully that makes sense. That's be like blaming the car manufactures for those who died prior to the invention of airbags - because airbags would have saved those lives if they had been invented. SO they really should not lump the '70's' in with this discussion at all it taints the facts ands scews the information.

Fanny

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Clinton was born 8-19-1946.
Graduated Yale Law School 1973.
Elected Arkansas attorney general 1976.
Served as Arkansas governor 1978-1980, 1982-1991.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit...Clinton was in and out of the governor's office in the 70's and 80's. He was governor for a term in the 70's and then lost re-election for commuting the sentence of a convicted murderer. However, he served as governor of Arkansas from 82 - 91 (when he was elected President). Why I don't like him? Because I know him from when he was governor of my state and some of the things he did while governor are still having ripple effects here to this day.

I'm not sure how old you are but Clinton is in his mid to late 50's. He's old enough to have avoided the draft and protested in England against the Vietnam war in the late 60's. He's much older than I am and I'm in my mid 40's. So...yes, he's old enough to have been in office here and was in office.

Like I said...I'm sure more facts will be coming out since a case has been filed in court. I find it hard to believe that Farrah would make such a charge even for a reporter without something to back it up. You can only go so far (even for the press) without it being considered slander.

Do I think Clinton is a mass murderer? Hard question to answer. The truth is ...IF he indeed knew what was going on and kept silent....he would have been doing it for his 'good ole boys' who were helping him politically. I don't really think he sat around and premeditated murder...he just didn't think about the implications of what he was doing. He only saw the $ signs and what scratching his buddy's back would get for him in return.

Remember, I'm prefacing all of this with IF because you are absolutely right in that there are no hard facts out in the public domain yet. Just speculation.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Fanny...you're a peach!

Whit4you

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow thanks Fanny - amazing he's almost 20 years older than me! Aids was discovered in '79 I think? Or at least became mainstream news in '79 - not sure when it started being tested in the blood supply and so on. I personally think before people start implying that Clinton is a mass murderer - intentionally selling tained blood to Canada etc - that some of the facts should be sorted out.

I'm also curious as to if the blood supply that these agencies were buying from their own Canadian prisoners - was being tested at the time? If they were using untested blood from US - and yet testing their OWN blood supply - this is not making sense is it? And if they were not testing the blood supply locally how where is the 1,200 figure coming from.

I think the entire AIDS epidemic is a international tragedy - and I think if you take a look at all the blood supply situation from the 70's and early 80's you'll find alot of sad situations. I"m also wondering why on earth Canada got all all the blood for these 1,200 from Arkansas - US? Why would Arkansas be the only state selling prisoners blood then? Or is Arkansas just significant because of Clinton?

I think there are alot of unanswered questions and I think that reporter's statement

"Imagine if the nation suddenly learned that, as governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton knowingly oversaw the illicit sale of state prison blood to Canadian hemophiliacs and others -- spreading AIDS and other deadly diseases to hundreds, perhaps thousands, in the 1980s"

Is extremely biased and not based is probably very slanderious. Oh he used the word "Imagine if" - but others will take it as a fact.

I'm interested in seeing how this story unfolds regarding the buyers and sellers of this blood - but I don't like the way it's implying that Clinton is a mass murderer. I really can't udnerstand why Arkansas would be the sole supplier of blood to Canada in the 70's and early 80's this makes *NO* sense to me personally. And as we know had Clinton been president at that time - the governors actions - and this sell of blood would have been blamed on his presidency. LOL. Who was president in the early 80's - and what did he know about this sell of blood to Canda - oh he was too busy not knowing about the sell of arms to the contra's to be involved in that I imagine :)

As I've said the entire AIDS sitaution is a international tragedy - and I personally can't see no matter how informed I get on this - pinning the blame on any one person, group or agency. The last of it - those who continued to buy or sell this blood in the VERY end - knowing it was tainted - knowing it was killing people and so on - that's a crime of the international interest.

Fanny

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Good questions, Whit, and good critical thinking. I, too, am wanting to see a bit more hard information before I formulate my opinions.

Maris

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
what does clinton have to do with a pharmaceutical company in new jersey? The world net daily is not exactly what I would considered a non partisan publication. I am amazed that years later right wing zealots still trying to pin everything except the earthquake in India on Clinton. Those people are crackpots.

Whit4you

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Rissa

"During these years Clinton (along with the other American States) were already testing donated blood for Hep.C but he did NOT require the blood coming from the prison to be tested since it was going to Canada and we did not begin testing until 4 years later. In my opinion he used a legal loophole to skip a step which he knew could have deadly results. The blood was not treated with the same safety measures as blood collected for U.S. use. "

Rissa - as I've stated I don't know all the facts here, but according to that article (first post) Canada did not begin testing it's OWN blood for Hep C until 1990. So ALL of it's blood, not just the blood coming from the US was not tested. I can't see that the gov of Arkansas (you mention Clinton specifically for some reason) is responsible for agencies in Canada and it's decision to not test it's own blood, or the blood it imported for Hep C. You mention Clinton specifically, is Arkansas the only state that was selling untested blood to Canada? If not, which other states at that time were selling this untested blood to a country that did not test any of it's own blood - and what were those govenor's names?

I'm just curious because it seems to make little sense to me that Arkansas (which is a relatively unpopulated state) would be the only ones doing this - and if they are not the only ones why are people specifically mentioning Clinton - that makes it appear to be poltically motivated.

Also I'd really like to know - if that article is correct, why Canada didn't test it's own blood for AIDS until 1985 and yet it appears to be implying that the sellers and buyers of the blood in the '70's were knowingly selling tainted blood? If that's the case then the Canadian red cross at the time was doing the same.


Rissa
"I am not a big Clinton fan but not a "hater" either. It's simply a matter of him being where the buck stops and is responsible for State-run programs while he was Governor."

Again - was Arkansas the only state selling this blood to Canada? If not who were the other states and who were the govenors of those states? Also did Clinton initiate this program or was it initiated prior to him taking office? Who specifically initiated it that I'm curious about.

I think the buck stops with those continuing to sell / buy this blood AFTER Canada started to test it's own blood (85 for aids) and 90 for Hep C.

One final question - there's a gap listed in Clinton's governorship - who was Governor during that time and why didn't he put a stop to this mass murdering that was allegedly going on at the time?

Alot of unanswered questions here.

Hillbilly

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 06:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The governor during the 'gap' was Frank White.

Rissa

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 10:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Evening Whit.. I suck at explaining myself in writing. LOL Let's try another angle. Canada WAS slower at testing it's blood for Hep C, 4 years slower from what I've heard!! The USA was already testing for this illness at the time Clinton's gov't signed a contract to send blood to Canada. (I have no clue about other states, I only know that this case involves one specific contract that was signed with the State of Arkansas at the time Clinton was Governor and that this is the only batch of tainted blood to have ever been connected with an American supplier. Whether or not we had successfull purchases from other States is something I don't know) There were two fatal flaws from this point (as I understand it).. one is that even though the State had decided that it was responsible to test blood for Hep C for it's citizens, the decision was made NOT to test THIS blood since it was going to a country that didn't test for this one illness on it's own supply (I keep seeing AIDS, etc but what I have heard for the last decade has only involved Hep C that's why I keep repeating that - could be wrong, I often am. There could also be several lawsuits by different groups). Canada being slow to test is a whole other issue which we have been fighting up here but at hand is that the US blood handlers KNEW to test and decided to skip it. I have never heard nor believed that Clinton KNEW the blood was tainted only that he KNEW the option to test was there and didn't make the agency take it. I really want to make that clear because I don't for a minute think Clinton or anyone involved KNEW specifically that there WAS tainted blood in any particular container and still stuck a stamp on it. Absolutely not. The second problem was that the blood came from prisons which is something I am not at all clear on .... it was already outlawed in the U.S.? Or was declared so somewhere in the middle of the contract's duration? But Clinton allowed it since the blood would not be given to Americans?

I agree with the comments that this has NOTHING to do with U.S./Canada relations or foreign policy. It was a single business contract that revolved around a State-level politician who later became much more high-profile. In fact from the rumours floating up here the last few years, a deliberate slowing of the investigation was made on the part of the RCMP so that Clinton would be out of office before it was completed and charges layed. **This is strictly rumour** that was floating around here about 2 years ago let me say. Let's also note exactly WHO has been charged so far and what country's they are from. This is about a specific contract and the players involved, not international politics. I would predict that before it's done.... a whole lot of our Red Cross heirarchy and our own Cdn politicians will have fallen before too many American ex-politicians. LOL

Feel free to correct me on anything I have wrong!!!! I really am trying to discuss what I believe based on what I have been reading about this for years now.... not pushing my inane opinions as fact. :)

Zachsmom

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The only problem I am seeing is that the tests to screen for HIV & Hep C were not created or even used until 1985. Perhaps I missed it somewhere in the linked articles but when did this alleged illegal sale of prision blood take place? I would like to know was it before or after 1985? What were the laws of Arkansas at the time? What were the national laws at the time for screening blood? I have only read speculation and would like to see some facts before I point any fingers at anyone of wrong doing! These are serious allegations and many people could be hurt.

Hillbilly

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 12:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
CLINTON LINKED TO TAINTED CANADA BLOOD

The Ottawa Citizen
September 12, 1998 Mark Kennedy


Criminal probe traces trail of plasma from Arkansas inmates

The RCMP's criminal investigation into the tainted-blood affair will examine how HIV-contaminated plasma was collected from Arkansas prison inmates and shipped to Canada by a U.S. firm with links to President Bill Clinton.

"The RCMP is looking at all aspects of the blood distribution system," Cpl. Gilles Moreau said yesterday. "It's one of the many aspects."

Meanwhile, tainted-blood victims angrily said the prison blood-collection scheme was a scandal on its own that proved the federal government neglected its regulatory duties to keep the blood supply pure.

They said the story lends credence to their continuing calls for the federal and provincial governments to compensate all tainted-blood victims, no matter when they were infected. Durhane Wong-Rieger, past president of the Canadian Hemophilia Society, said federal regulators were supposed to keep an eye on imported blood products and ensure they were not high risk. "They are responsible for this," she said of the federal government. "They are liable."

The tainted plasma--used to create special blood products for hemophiliacs--is believed to have been infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. As well, it's likely the prisoners' blood was contaminated with hepatitis C.

Mr. Clinton was governor of Arkansas when the Canadian blood supply was contaminated in the mid-'80s.

He was generally familiar with the operations of now-defunct Health Management Associates, the Arkansas firm that was given a contract by Mr. Clinton's state administration to provide medical care to prisoners.

In the process, HMA was also permitted by the state to collect prisoners' blood and sell it elsewhere.

Mr. Clinton was a friend of HMA president Leonard Dunn, who boasted of the friendship in 1986 to Arkansas police who conducted a probe of the firm following allegations it was providing poor medical care to inmates.

In the early 1980s, U.S. companies that fractionate blood products had stopped buying prison blood because it was widely understood that since many prisoners practised unsafe sex or were intravenous drug users, they posed a high risk of carrying the AIDS virus.

However, HMA found a willing buyer in Continental Pharma, a Montreal blood broker, which in turn sold the plasma to Toronto-based blood fractionator Connaught Laboratories. Connaught apparently didn't realize the plasma had come from prisoners.

Details of HMA's links to Mr. Clinton were reported Thursday after the Citizen obtained copies of internal reports from the Arkansas State Police dating back to the mid-'80s.

Cpl. Moreau, spokesman for the special task force of Mounties investigating the blood scandal, cautiously responded to queries yesterday about the investigators' work. He said that, as a matter of policy, the RCMP cannot reveal specifics about what is being investigated because that might jeopardize the investigation.

However, Cpl. Moreau did note that Mr. Justice Horace Krever chronicled--without mentioning Mr. Clinton--what he knew about the prison-blood collection.

The Mounties began their criminal investigation last February and established a toll-free number (1-888-530-1111) that Canadians can call with tips. So far, the RCMP investigators have interviewed more than 500 people and have travelled to the United States, Germany and the Netherlands.

Here at home, they have interviewed people in every province. Some are victims and others are so-called "witnesses" who were involved in the blood system--either in the Red Cross or in governments--when it went awry.

"I can assure you that we are doing everything we can--and that is in our power--to get to the bottom of the blood distribution system and to look at it from the criminal aspect," said Moreau.

The contaminated plasma collected by HMA in the early '80s came from Cummins prison in Grady, Arkansas. As well, HMA bought prisoners' plasma from four Louisiana prisons and sent it to the Montreal blood broker, which sold it to Connaught Laboratories. Connaught fractionated it into blood products for use by hemophiliacs.