Alligator Alley terrorist
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alligator Alley terrorist
Grooch | Friday, September 13, 2002 - 07:12 pm     Squaredsc, I understand your point and I agree with what you are thinking and why they might have done it. They are young and stupid and didn't realize the ramifications. They are Americans, but since 9/11 they have become second class citizens. And they made the joke out of frustration. The one thing that makes me wonder. I agree the woman did the right thing in calling the police (you never know when it might be true) But if the woman really thought they might be terrorists, shouldn't she have pulled someone aside to call the police right right away, before they left the restauraunt? She waited until they left and until she got the plate number down. If she had someone else call right away, the cops could have picked them up right away before they got to far. The only reason they were stopped in Florida, probably 6 to 8 hours later is because one of the cars ran the tollboth and there was a cop there watching for that. He didn't stop them because there was a bulletin out for them. |
Grooch | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:05 pm     http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/13/alligator.alley/index.html |
Kat | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:18 pm     They are young and stupid? They are going to medical school which puts them at over 21. They have become second class citizens????? Why? They sat in a coffee shop and made jokes about committing a terrorist attack. Oh but it was out of frustration you say. I am surprised at how people are willing to make excuses for this behavior. The supreme court ruled about calling fire in a crowded theatre. This is the same thing. Throw the book at them. Victims they are not. This isn't about discrimination. This is about getting what you asked for. I am waiting for the post about the poor youth who were arrested in upstate New York. Before anyone starts posting about how their families swear they are innocent, remember all the hijackers' families swore they weren't on those planes. |
Cjr | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:15 pm     I'm totally with you on this Kat. I also wonder what the dogs were reacting to in the cars. Does anyone know what could make the bomb sniffing dogs react besides chemicals for bombs? I really am not sure what they are trained to react to. |
Mystery | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:17 pm     I think they're denying ever making those remarks. Even if they had, though, I'm not sure what book could be thrown at them. As far as I can tell, it's not a crime (yet) to discuss even something as horrible as a terrorist attack. Laws have been specifically enacted to prohibit certain language in airports, but I don't think there's a Shoney's law yet. |
Rissa | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:13 pm     Lots of things can set the dogs off, including (as the police stated) firecrackers which are totally legal. Secondly the police have let them go with no charges and the guys deny making the comments at all. The police either believe them or their stories matched and were convincing enough that no grounds for charges could be found. It is curious that the police did have grounds to lay a charge for running the toll booth and it seems to me that they would have not let that slide if they felt that it was the only way to *get* these men (if they didn't believe their side but couldn't prove it I mean). Keep in mind that the 3 men were in two different cars, right? That part seemed hazy to me in the reports. If they were in two different cars but still managed to tell police the same testimony then it adds credence to their side. So what we have is he said/she said situation and since I don't know any of the people involved I will not be supposing guilt on either side with the little information there is. If it did go down as the woman said, I am not defending these guys (and no-one else here did either). What I said was that I can easily imagine a situation evolving given the information from the media. |
Max | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:36 pm     This reminds me of the McCarthy era. Scary stuff. Personal freedoms are eroding bit by bit in the name of "homeland defense." Remember this from WWII era? First They Came for the Jews First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. -- Pastor Martin Niemöller |
Willsfan | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:46 pm     I still think it was strange and who knows if they weren't on their way to do something. I think Ms. Stone overheard something that triggered her full attention and I am glad she reported it. She may have averted a tradegy. There are way too many targets (places with lots of tourists) in Florida. Edited for length. Too verbose. I can't believe these guys were uncooperative with the officials, after they were put in the van "together" they told about the medical meeting. If they had nothing to hide why wouldn't they start balbbing all over the place. I would have been talking my head off and telling them where I was going and where I was from. Something was curious otherwise those officers, who are professionals who have let them go right away. |
Gidget | Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:15 am     I've been enjoying the new ads on TV about protecting our freedom, like the kid in the library asks for a book and they want to know his name and two men haul him off. Thank you Max for the relevant quote and Squaredsc for a sensitive perspective. |
Rabernet | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:16 am     OK, I'm going to duck here, I'm sure, but I live in Atlanta, not too far from where Ms. Stone "allegedly" heard these comments. I say allegedly, because something about her just doesn't sit right with me. The day of and after, she immediately goes to Atlanta, 50 miles away to do interviews with all the local news stations, and meanwhile, the FBI is at her house, looking for her and asking the news media who are at her house if they have seen her or know where she is. Her husband came home and said he needed to find his wife, he didn't know where she was either. Calhoon is a very small close knit town, and my gut feeling is that she probably fabricated a lot of this to get the media attention and the "hero-worship" of her town and is enjoying it immensely. I may be wrong, call it women's intuition, but I don't think that all of what she reported was true, especially after the FBI was shown, looking very perturbed that they could not locate her and then find out that she's doing TV interviews. I'm waiting to hear more on this, but like I said, there's something about her and her mannerisms that just didn't sit right with me, and I even said so to my boyfriend that day when they showed her. Just because these guys are middle eastern descent everyone believes all that she says and doesn't believe what they say (that they never made any threats)? (And by the way, I am white myself). My speculation is that she saw an opportunity to get attention and took it and probably fabricated most of it. But again, it's just speculation. Anyone else think something is "funny" about all this? It's just not adding up for me. OK, waiting for the flames! LOL |
Muttley | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:46 am     No flames, Rabernet. I have formed an opinion of this woman myself, and it's not especially flattering. Lives have been altered irreparably, and it's my hope that this woman didn't do this simply for the fame involved. I'm sure she thought Ashcroft himself would pat her on her brand new tee vee hairdo. On the other hand, you (and I to an extent) have done what it appears Ms Stone has done: made a judgement based partially on appearance or 'a feeling'. I am afraid of terrorists. I am even more afraid of living in a country where 24 hour news judges guilt or innocence and our Departments of Justice and Homeland Security remove my freedoms. |
Dahli | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:02 am     Rabernet, I agree, when I saw her and she was telling her story again, there was something in the 'wording' or phrasing she claimed she heard that sounded fishy or made up.... then when she said she wasn't doing it for the publicity - well that seemed really strange to say - a protest like that unsolicited is suspect to me. I also saw the young men being interviewed on Larry King, and they came across on the other hand as totally sincere. Just a feeling - totally inadmissable but I trust my gut LOL |
Sbw | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:44 am     A few observations - She said early on that she was "rescued" by FOX, that her yard was crowded with media. I understand FOX asked her if she was doing it for the attention. After that I heard her make the statement that she wouldn't do it for attention several times. She made it all up but said they were headed to Miami. I think she was wrong in "hooking up" with any news station. The 3 men - It is interesting that their stories don't add up with the info that was released. I can understand where they would have hurt feeling over incidents since 9/11. I can see where that hurt could turn into the exact incident that transpired - the way I see it. I am sad that this caused the school problems and prevented them from completing this 9-week rotation. I am glad it won't prevent them from continuing their education. Overall - I am glad to know that they were able to pass information from state to state in order to watch what appeared to be a very dangerous situation. I have seen several law officers say that they really didn't know if changes they had implemented worked but now felt confident with the system. It is a shame that people are "targeted" since 9/11. It is also sad that people have the fear which allows them to target others. Unfortunately 9/11 is a reality, we can't go back, we can only go forward. As a government and individuals we will make mistakes, we can only hope to correct those mistakes and make this world a better place to live. Some say, "if we could only go back to 9/10"... I don't want to go back, the outcome was BAD but it could have been WORSE. I just hope that this does not prevent the next person from reporting what they know/feel to proper authorities. I would rather see us turn into a nation of "tattletales" than "Rambo's". |
Fluff | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:17 pm     Hey Rabernet. I had written a post earlier to agree with you, but then our computers went down. LOL! Anyway, I think what Ms. Stone did was right if she indeed heard correctly. On the other hand, I do think that Ms. Stone was eavesdropping in their conversation, and as a result, the boys may have gotten angered and reversed their conversation to teach her some kind of a cruel lesson. Yet, I was quite disturbed at how Ms. Stone just jumped out there, if you know what I mean. I am not saying that she did all of this for attention, but I can't get over the fact that she didn't want to remain anonymous (I KNOW I WOULD) and that she had even mentioned her husband and son's name in an interview, according to a poster here. At first, I thought that maybe she just wasn't thinking clearly after hearing such words because it must've been really scary (if the boys said those things). But I don't understand how she could have been so eager to get in front of the camera. If anything, she should've been avoiding it. I truly think she used the attention for her advantage. And anyways, why keep repeating that you don't want attention if you're doing the right thing??? Smells a little like guilt to me. JMHO |
Yankee_In_Ca | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:36 pm     Here's an interesting article from the Kansas City Star, which I think is right on: Jitters and bigotry in cahoots By MIKE HENDRICKS Columnist Kansas City Star We'll never know for certain what was said Thursday morning in that Shoney's restaurant in Calhoun, Ga. Eunice Stone told a radio interviewer that she suspected that conspirators were plotting in the next booth over. What's more, they appeared to be Middle Easterners, she said. "One guy said, `Do you think that will bring it down?' " is how Stone recalled it. " `If that don't bring it down,' " Stone recalls another man saying, " `I have contacts. I'll get enough to bring it down.' "And to me," Stone said, "that meant they were planning to blow up something." Turns out Stone got some of it right, anyway. The three men, who would be held on suspicion for 17 hours down in Florida, were, in fact, discussing plans to bring down something in the near future. But it was not a building. It was a car. A car that one of the men, Omer Choudhary, wanted shipped down from Kansas City, the area where he grew up and his family still lives. Choudhary, 23, a graduate of Truman High School and the University of Missouri-Columbia, was not a terrorist, and neither were two fellow medical students on their way to Miami. The anxiety in the Everglades was a front-page false alarm. Yet the debate continues: Could the men have been playing a dirty trick on an eavesdropper? Stone says they laughed about Sept. 11 and contended that Americans would mourn again on Sept. 13 -- an allegation the men deny. Or was an innocent conversation simply misunderstood by someone whose imagination was inspired by last week's national nervousness? I say it doesn't really matter. Because the question speaks to a more disturbing issue. Either way you answer it, last week's terror scare was a result of what some Americans now must live with in our Post-Sept. 11 World. For those who happen to be Muslims, Arabs, Sikhs and Hindus, stares and suspicions are part of day-to-day life now in the country they call home. "You walk in anywhere, and things stop," Choudhary said Monday night on Larry King's TV show. "Everybody turns and looks." As the nation mourned those who died in the attacks of one year ago, a 12-member committee issued a report last week on what it's like to live in Kansas City now for members of those groups listed above. Uncomfortable. Sometimes scary. Occasionally dangerous. "All Muslims must die! U.S. does not want you here! Get out!" That's from one letter sent last fall to an Islamic school and cited in the report commissioned by Jackson County Executive Katheryn Shields. The fires of rage and hatred have cooled some since Sept. 11, 2001, but in Kansas City as elsewhere, ignorance still shows its face. Though not Muslims, Sikhs report being singled out for searches at airports because Sikh men wear turbans, as does Osama bin Laden. Muslims tell of being spat on, cursed at, threatened. According to the report, a caller told one Muslim man: "If you do not turn those terrorist cells in, I will kill you myself. I know where you live." If those three students on their way to Miami did, indeed, try to make someone squirm, maybe you can see why. Except they deny doing such a thing. Like the well-intentioned Eunice Stone, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/4095287.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp |
Grooch | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:07 pm     Here is a story from the Miami Herald about the News reporting things wrong. Posted on Sat, Sep. 14, 2002 COMMENTARY TV dots airwaves with inaccuracies GLENN GARVIN TV critic ''It seems like everyone connected the dots here,'' WSVN-Fox 7 anchor Christine Cruz said during the sixth hour of the marathon coverage of Friday's bomb scare on Alligator Alley. ``It seems like everyone did what they were supposed to be doing.'' Like a lot of what was said during the coverage, that was about half right. Television reporters were certainly connecting dots -- lots of dots, some of them seemingly from another planet -- but if journalism is about facts and not hype, then they definitely weren't doing what they were supposed to do. Friday's coverage was the source of a staggering amount of misinformation. Among the inaccurate reports: • Several stations reported that a woman in Georgia told police three Middle Easterners were coming to Miami to blow something up. (That's not what she said.) • Several also said cops spotted the men after they roared past a tollbooth on I-75. (One car rolled by at a normal rate of speed; the other stopped and paid the tolls for both.) • The cops used explosives to detonate a suspicious knapsack found in one car. (They didn't.) Channel 7 reported that explosive ''triggers'' were found in one of the cars. (There were no ''triggers'' or anything else to do with explosives.) • Channel 7 also reported that cops were searching for a third car. (They weren't.) It was a wretched performance -- worse yet, a wretched performance that dragged on for eight hours, terrorizing South Florida and smearing the daylights out of three medical students who can be counted on to contribute heavily to the next edition of the travel guide What Sucks About South Florida. ''This is what is wrong with local news,'' said Bill Pohovey, news director at WPLG-ABC 10, one of the two stations that kept their perspective on the story and stuck with regular programming. (WLTV-Univision 23 was the other.) ``This is why viewers get disgusted with local news.'' My only quibble with Pohovey is the word local. The worst parody of journalism Friday was actually on CNN, where the high-paid-low-rated anchor Paula Zahn speculated, without a jot or tittle of evidence, that the three men were coming to Florida to blow up the Turkey Point nuclear reactor. Now you know why CNN promotes her sex appeal rather than her news judgment. Local stations at least had the excuse that when you go live for six to eight hours, you've got to fill up the airtime with something -- especially when the pictures are dull shots of cops standing around empty automobiles. At best, that means stuff will get on the air without being as thoroughly checked as it should be; at worst, it means your telecast devolves into rampant speculation and hype. We had plenty of both Friday. The most egregious offender was WSVN 7, where it sounded like the staff had to hold anchors Christine Cruz and Tom Haynes back from storming onto the causeway and personally administering lethal injections to the three detained men they'd already tried and convicted. Over and over, the cops and public officials interviewed by the station's reporters cautioned that there was no physical evidence against the men (WSVN's false report of explosive ''triggers'' notwithstanding), they hadn't been arrested, and they weren't even being called ''suspects'' yet. Over and over, Cruz and Haynes ignored them. ''This story started as Sinister Plot,'' Cruz warned darkly. ``Now it's become Attack on Miami.'' Haynes wondered whether ''these guys, apparently on their way to Miami to do some harm to the city of Miami,'' were tied to al Qaeda. ''This looks like some loosely pulled together plot,'' he added. Later, he called them ``three men apparently on their way to Miami with some ill intentions.'' Sometimes I seriously wondered if Haynes was listening to his own station. At one point, WSVN aired an interview with the Georgia woman who reported the three men to the police. She described overhearing one man ask, ''Do you think we have enough to bring it down?'' and another answering, ``If we don't have enough, I have contacts. We can get enough to bring it down.'' Seconds after the interview ended, Haynes summarized like this: Three men ''talking about driving down to Miami and using some sort of explosive device to blow it up.'' How he read all that into those two simple sentences, I'll never know. Though I'll bet Paula Zahn can tell us. |
Juju2bigdog | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:12 pm     Yay, Grooch!!! I knew we could count on you with another good news story one of these days. |
Rabernet | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:02 pm     Thanks everyone for not making me get out my asbestos panties! LOL Several of you have made very good points. We have a section in the Atlanta Journal Constitution called "The Vent" where people call or e-mail in their vents and one of them, although sarcastic "sort of" make sense in the way I was thinking. Here it is: "I am sure that if I were an Islamic extremist plotting a terrorist action, I would sit in a public restaurant next to a nosy white woman and speak in clearly decipherable English." And then here was an opinion which sort of went along with my thoughts in my original post: Vigilance same as ignorance During the past several days, I have read with continued frustration the opinions of other Atlantans that the three men accused of bringing a bomb through Alligator Alley in South Florida should at least be arrested for joking about a new attack. Has anyone considered that the men never said the things Eunice Stone accused them of? Because of their Middle Eastern heritage, it seems everyone believes that if they aren't terrorists, they must have been playing a joke. It is this level of ignorance that makes "civilian vigilance" in the United States a sometimes dangerous concept. But few people seemed to even give them the benefit of the doubt. The possibility that these men were victims of an overzealous woman is just too complex for some to bear. It is time that the bigots here in Atlanta look in the mirror and realize that just because a "good white woman" thought they were plotting a new attack, that doesn't make it true. If the men weren't Middle Eastern, would she have eavesdropped on them at all? JIM LULEJIAN, Atlanta Anyhow, I appreciate the open-minded discussion of differing opinions! |
Reader234 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 04:26 pm     It has been shown on news today the video footage of the car they were driving did in fact STOP and pay thier tolls at the toll booth, like they stated they did. |
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