Archive through September 24, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Bush must stop: Archive through September 24, 2002

Hillbilly

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I remember reading a book quite a few years back...I'm not sure about the title but I thinks it was "How to Swim with Sharks and Not Get Eaten" or something like that. Basically, it was about how to survive office politics and work your way up the ladder.

One of the points the author made is that the 'successful' leader doesn't necessarily have to know everything about the company or how each function works. It's more important to surround yourself with good people who do have those knowledge and skills and delegate that responsibility with strong oversight.

Ocean_Islands

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, it didn't work with Reagan (without a scandal that is) and I don't think it'll work with Bush. You can delegate all you want but if you don't understand the issues there will be problems. And running a country is a bit more complicated than running a company.

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Absolutely. By being aroung some of the best people, you could be doing yourself a favor. I think that's what Bush knew when he was selecting his team.

Yes, Lauword, I cringe too. Anybody else talking like that and it would be okay with me. I am not perfect at all, nobody is. But there are people in my classes at school that are more fluent and well-spoken than our President. It makes me a little embarassed when he sits there saying, "Uh, uh, uh," trying to think of what else to say, which is usually the same thing everytime. "He has weapons of mass desstruction." "The axis of evil." Blah, blah, blah.

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Right Ocean. That is true too. In the long run, people will notice (if they haven't already) that Bush's team seem to know more than him. JMHO

Forgive me, but I don't know much about Reagan except what my social sciences teacher taught us last year. I heard nothing but bad things. I was too young to be remember Reagan for myself to develop my own opinion.

Marysafan

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I fear it all is moot at this point. I've been told by a friend with politcal connections that the date has been set...and things are already in motion.

I know someone else...who works in a military related position. It took me quite a while (a couple of years), but I finally was able to figure out what kind of work he did.

I realized that every time he was really busy at work...a short time later something major would happen in the world. I got in the habit of asking him if he was "Busy" from time to time.

When we started this thread...I contacted him. He assured that he was only busy because of the end of the fiscal year for the government. Yesterday, he informed me that yes...he was really "busy".

This morning on the Today show, I saw congressional leaders falling all over themselves to get behind the President and urging the rest of Congress to do likewise. Someone is in an awful hurry...either there is an immediate threat we do not know about...or someone wants to get things started before there is enough pressure to prevent them from taking place.

I am left very uneasy.

Adven

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think a lot of the complaints against Bush, although understandable, are just window dressing. He's certainly not an intellectual and doesn't have Clinton's smoothness, but I feel he might be the right man at the right time. A number of smaller countries with a grudge against the USA are inching closer to nuclear capability and I think he realizes the US may not have the luxury of dotting all its political "i"s and crossing all its bureaucratic "t"'s. The United Nations is full of bright, well-spoken, capable people who drafted 10 years of great-sounding resolutions that Saddam promptly ignored. Bush, verbally clumsy and uncomfortable in his own skin, but, I believe, sincere and determined, told the world in general and Saddam in particular, exactly what he intended to do and he accomplished in one day what the U.N. could not do in 10 years: he got Saddam's attention.

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
So, could someone please tell me what are they planning to do if anyone knows? Are they gonna drop a bomb and leave or something? Are they gonna try to kill Saddam? I don't quite understand it. Does anyone know the plans?

Hillbilly

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Fluff...disclosing what we are going to do publicly would put our troops in jeopardy. Don't expect to know anything until it is well underway. We have to protect our troops.

Adven

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
My understanding is that Bush insists on a "regime change". If the US (and England) attack Iraq alone, it will take roughly two weeks of air bombardment followed by a week long land campaign. Since he is unlikely to surrender, Saddam will likely be killed or escape the country. If he did surrender, I assume he would be taken into custody and charged with undetermined crimes.

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hey Hillbilly.

They told us everything they were doing on the War of Terrorism. It got to the point where Rumsfeld told the media in a nice way to just shut up. They were giving away everything. But could somebody find the other offender first? It's worst than finding Waldo.

Okay, I understand Adven. Thanks.

This would all make for great talk in my American Government class. When I took American Government in high school, it was during the time of the 2000 election. I loved it!!! Instead of talking about old history, we were talking about the current events that were making history.

Judyjetson

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm afraid that although you THINK they told us everything, you are quite mistaken.

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You're right. I'm sure they didn't.

On the other hand, they weren't as successful as predicted because that somebody is still running loose.

Judyjetson

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It's like playing hide-and-seek with no boundaries (with the exception of outer-space).

Then again, he could already be dead. One thing is for sure, "He ain't leadin' no parades."

Fluff

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL!

Hide and seek is a good comparison. I don't really think he's dead, but if so, you won't hear any complaints from me (no offense anyone).

Ocean_Islands

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If there was a real immediate threat, they would strike without hesitation or UN agreement.

The point I have been trying to make is that an attack on Iraq will have the Arab nations up in arms; they already hate us, why would we do something to inflame that?

And what happened to Bin Laden? Bush has shown a penchant for ignoring other countries, ignoring diplomacy, and he is turning even allies against us. Look at what happened this week in the German election.

Saph036

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I realize that the majority of this thread is in regard to attacking Iraq. Which I have to say is purely selfish on Bush's part. I have researched Bush and his administration for months. What I have found is horrible and gut-wrenching. The bottom line is attacking Iraq is about controlling the oil.

However, with that said in a nut shell, I want to further point out 9-11. I firmly believe that Bush knew this attack was immenint and did nothing. It took me months after the attacks to slowly begin to realize that something was terribly wrong with how this administration handled this horrific attack. The media has access to all the information I have come across and yet they do NOT mention it.

I am extremely weary of posting this because it such a sensitive subject. So, I will just feel you all out and see if I am welcomed back.

Kaili

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Saph036- there are a few of us here that feel as you do- you need to search us out but we are here. It is a hard topic to bring up when you're on *our* side of the issue...but I'm with ya!

Sensitive a subject as it may be, I think people like you/us need to speak out and be heard or else nothing can or will change. It's hard to change minds, but it never hurts to try to open them and to bring in a different point of view.

Don't think you won't be welcomed back. You may be argued with, but you won't be sent away. I've said plenty of things that I'm sure have gotten under people's skin regarding GW and his boys...you have every right to have your opinions.

Speak up!!! Or type up or whatever! If you feel the way I think you seem to, you have my support!

Faerygdds

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 09:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh Kaili... Should I take one of those numbers and step in line as well??? We all know how often I manage to everyone in a tissy with my socio-political views!

Saph... you won't be sent away... kali is right... there are many of us that see things the way you do. It's a sentitive topic for sure, but then again... what do you expect when the Pres is trying to start a war??? 100% support??? Not likely! Especially when it's being done the way it is.

Feel free to speak your mind... others may not agree with you, but this board is famous for being able to debate things repestfully without all the name calling and bashing that goes on in other places!

Kaili

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 09:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
:) Yep...not even 1% support for an unprovoked attack coming from me! Time to start a support group for the doves. haha There was a letter in our paper the other day from this guy who said he's lived through many presidents during his life, but this is his first dictator.

That should rile some people up a bit!

Faerygdds

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Nice to know I'm not alone! :)

Saph036

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kaili and Faerygdds,

Thank you for the warm welcome. I have been on other message boards where I got death threats and one way tickets out of the country. lol

I just wanted to test the water before I jumped in head first. Also, I respect and enjoy this board a lot. I got here via BB3. I got bored over there and decided to check out general discussion.

So, can we post links and articles here?

I have a vault of interesting stuff that is crying out to be shared. ;)

Nice to meet ya!

Kstme

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What I find interesting is my friend in England has said how frustrated she is with Tony Blair siding with Bush when she "thought" he was a stronger person than that. They are scared of BOTH men over there! I agree!

Saph036

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Blair has taken Enron money for the Labour Party, in return for the usual favours. Blair made the extraordinary appointment of Wakeham to head the committee on Lords reform. Blair seems to do everything that Bush wants even if it will split and possibly destroy the Labour Party. It is time to consider the hypothesis that Blair is a full member of the Bush/Enron crime family. If it turns out that 911 was a fraud, part of a strategy of tension (see below) Blair will also need to explain why he sacked Robin Cooke out of the blue to replace him with `lifelong friend of Israel` Jack Straw, and why one of his first acts as PM was to give Russian boss Putin support for his own fraudulent `war against terrorism` in Chechenia.

I pulled this out of an article to show you an example of how Bush and Blair are joined at the hip.

Azriel

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
9/11 a fraud? I just cannot believe that anyone can truly believe that Bush is that big of a monster. Think of what you are saying! This is ridiculous.

Faerygdds

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Azriel... I have said it also... in fact I said it on 9/12/2001... then I dismissed it because it made my stomach churn, but the reality is that it is a possibility...

Actually my thought was more like... "I wonder if Bush knew more about this than he is saying" I said it on a gut response from one of his speeches at the time. Something about his body language prompted it, but I honestly can't remember what...

My husband found this last year during the period of time when Bush was developing such concepts as Homeland Security and The American Freedom Corps... I think it's high time I finally posted it! (actually I just refound it, but now's a good time)

Regan Quote - 1964