Archive through September 12, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Bush must stop:
Archive through September 12, 2002
Faerygdds | Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:05 pm     and observerx... check your e-mail! |
Margie | Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:22 pm     I believe before we invade Iraq we should have a legal reason. We have nothing right now. We "know" he's up to no good and he has for awhile, but we have no proof. He's offered to have weapons inspectors come back in and we refused. Nothing short of regime change will satisfy us and that's one thing he's not going to give us. I think we should take him up on the weapons inspectors reentering Iraq -- with one caveat... The very first time they are not allowed entry into an area they wish to inspect, or they find that they are being lied to or in any way obstructed from doing their jobs, we invade. We prepare our forces ahead of time so we are ready at a moments notice. We go to the UN with this proposition and we've got a better chance at success. We could go this alone if we chose to, but unless we want to further turn opinion against us, we should try to garner some support. If we are so sure that he'll screw around with the weapons inspections again, why don't we let him hang himself with his own rope? Without changing laws, and enacting new laws in the UN, what Bush is planning to do is illegal. Why not take the high road? We know we have the man power and technology to wipe him from the face of the earth, but just because we can doesn't mean we should. |
Azriel | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:16 am     How many chances did we give Saddam before to let the weapons inspectors do their job? Why should we send weapons inspectors over again to be used as hostages? Why would it suddenly be 'legal' to attack him if he one more time refused to let the inspectors do their job, but it's 'illegal' to attack now, when time and again before he refused to let them do their job? Why can't you understand that Sadaam is using this 'send the inspectors over' crap as a ploy so people like you will say, 'See, Sadaam is trying to be reasonable, why can't we be reasonable?' Sadaam coldly kills his own people, he killed HIS OWN cabinet officers for jollies and sent body parts to their widows and you think he is going to negotiate in good faith with us? |
Azriel | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:29 am     Nightcrawler, great posts! You get a big high five from me! Those back fires work really well for prevention of much bigger fires don't they? Instead of grabbing thier own little garden hose to try to put out a fire and cause a much bigger problem for everyone on the block, people should let the professionals use their judgement and expertise to get the job done right.  |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:31 am     Hussein is a Hitler for the millenium. His ultimate goal is to destroy Israel and increase his territory as much as possible within the Middle East. Even the other Middle Eastern countries are afraid of him. If we wait for him to attack Israel, which he will, many Middle Eastern countries will line up with him against Israel and we have a major Middle Eastern explosion on our hands. If we go directly after Iraq before Hussein has a chance to attack Israel, he's going to be going it alone. The other countries may not like it, but they won't intervene. For tens of reasons, maybe hundreds, the time is now. Damned if you do it, damned if you don't Azriel. If Bush sits on his hands now and all this comes to pass, we'll be listening to the Democrats saying why didn't you protect us from this. It's my understanding that the Democrats are pushing for the vote on Iraq to occur after the November elections so they don't have to answer to their voters for it. Who's playing politics? |
Azriel | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:34 am     Goddessatlaw, YES! |
Fluff | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:56 am     Margie, I totally agree with you. What people don't understand is that a lot of moves that politicians make are simply political and have some sort of strategy behind them. I'm not saying that Bush is inhumane, but if he really wanted to go to war with Saddam H., why would he pick now of all times????!!!! He waited until around August and September to do it, and the elections are in November. I wouldn't be surprised if the troops are sent out next month. I think it is crazy. We have no kind of sufficient proof. If we did, why wouldn't they lay out the facts and tell us about all of this overwhelming proof. I still think that it is bullying, and the real person they need to find is probably somewhere laughing at Bush. It's ridicilous! |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:07 am     I have a suggestion - why don't we all step back a bit and listen to the President's address to the U.N. today, then debate the pros and cons of the case he lays out? That may be more fruitful than a polarized Republicans vs. Democrats argument - none of us are going to change our opinions in the current course of argument, and maybe we won't after the speech, but what is clear is that we're pretty much wasting our energy at this point. Personally, I'd rather line item a proposed case than argue political dogma. It would also promote addressing the actual issues rather than each other in a too personal fashion. Anyone with me? |
Fluff | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:10 am     Can't watch it, but maybe I'll search for a transcript somewhere. It's not even a Republican vs. Democrat argument in my case. I am not trying to be bias. That is just my opinion on this subject. |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:13 am     Fluff - I'm sure there'll be a transcript published very shortly after or concurrent with the speech delivery. I'm computer impaired, but I'll see if I can figure out how to link a copy over here once I find one. |
Fluff | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:18 am     Thanks. It still makes me extremely nervous about what Bush is doing, especially since they haven't started anything with us. I live in DC, so I have a right to be nervous! |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:20 am     Boy, I miss everything about DC except those sweltering hot summers. I don't think I've ever felt that kind of hot even in the deepest portions of Mississippi. I wish they could move the Smithsonian to Indianapolis (LOL). |
Fluff | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:25 am     Yeah, this summer was like the third hottest summer ever in DC history. Like yesterday or the day before, it was 93 degrees (actually here at my college in Arlington it was 93, but if it was 93 here, it was probably hotter at home in DC). I'm praying for a humongous snow storm to hit in November so that I won't have classes. It didn't snow at all last year! Everyone, cross your fingers! |
Margie | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:28 am     Those countries have already allied with him, don't you remember? Old enemies got together to declare an attack against one is an attack against all. No, they don't like him and want him taken out, but they'd rather be allied with him against us, than allied with us against him. That's a problem. You can't run around yelling public opinion be damned, because no matter how strong we are we cannot take on the entire world. We need flight clearance, we need bases to attack from, we need intelligence. We can't invade just because we have the might to do it. When we start doing crap like that we stop being the good guys of the world. Is this playing politics with our boys lives? No. This is called being sensible and thoughtful before you subject them to the ultimate sacrifice for our way of life. Don't they deserve at least that? |
Margie | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:37 am     Geeze, I posted that message,saw the DC weather posts right above it and thought I posted in the wrong thread! I do plan on watching the speech today. I think this speech is arguably one of the most important speeches to date of Bush's term. This, for me, has not been just the usual democratic/republican back and forth. I've come to my views after careful thought. If he presents proof today that shows us that we must attack now or face dire consequences I will change my mind. However, if his speech is all sound and fury signifying nothing, I will be more firmly set. It's a big speech for him today, he not only has to convince the UN, he has to convince his own people. |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:48 am     I have an admission to make, Margie - love me some W, but I can't stand his speech delivery. I'd almost rather read it than listen to him give it. But listen I will - and look forward to discussing it with you later. |
Ocean_Islands | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:57 am     Bush is trying to act unilaterally. This is not in the interest of world peace. He is enflaming Arab anti-American sentiment and God knows we don't need more of that. His international political skills are very poor and must improve. |
Margie | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:32 am     Goddess, I'm right there with you on that one. It is important, though, to listen to the actual speech as he gives it because it will get cleaned up and edited in the whitehouse.gov site and in the news reports of the speech. I also think it's important to hear it as you can take clues from body language and vocal inflection that you can't get from the computer screen. |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:34 am     Here we go . . . |
Margie | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:35 am     Watching it. |
Margie | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:48 am     If he says nu"cue"ler one more time, I'm going to scream. |
Goddessatlaw | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 07:50 am     Oh, Gawd - it's one of my pet peeves . . |
Nightcrawler | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 08:06 am     i think he said it all and i still think we need to go in the sooner the better!!!!!!!! did any keep count of how many times that Iraq BROKE there word with the U.N. there were lots of them i just don't think we should give them one more change to do it again |
Ocean_Islands | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 08:07 am     Here is what some people from foreign countries had to say in commemorating Sept. 11 yesterday, per the NY Times: "It is monstrous, horrible — I don't deny that," said Eveline Bureau, of France. "But the Americans didn't do anything to avoid what happened on Sept. 11. They have put themselves in danger, and now they put us in danger." "Anti-Americanism is back," said Lyudmila M. Alexeyeva, a noted human rights advocate in Moscow. "America is the strongest, richest and most successful country, and people here don't like that." "There is less sympathy and more rational political attitudes," Mr. Straudenrauss said. "There are many questions now, like where do we (Germany) stand on Iraq and what it means to have one superpower in the world." Last year, a day after Sept. 11, a front-page editorial in the French newspaper Le Monde stated and restated the phrase, "We are all American." But on Tuesday, the same writer, Jean-Marie Colombani, in the same paper observed that "the solidarity reflex from one year ago has been drowned in a wave. . . . " George Bush must be a world leader, and he needs to learn to do better -- a lot better. |
Jville | Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 08:08 am     All the evidence I need is here........ http://globalsecurity.org/ |
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