Child Abuse Case in Indiana Caught on Tape
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Child Abuse Case in Indiana Caught on Tape
Squaredsc | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 11:16 am     after reading the above posts and the archived ones, i think its great that all of you would intervene if seeing something like this on the street. because soooo many people wouldn't. a lot of people don't intervene when the see a mother cursing at their child. or if they see a man physically abusing their spouse or girlfriend, they say and do nothing. i also find it amazing that in that whole parking lot no one noticed, and no one was watching the camera when this incident took place? bohawkins, great posts, very thought provoking. and i find it a little odd that there were no marks on the little girl. but this was a very scary incident and i hope the little girl will be ok.
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Kaili | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:27 pm     I can't believe she plead not guilty...I mean, I can because that's what most people do but come on! Can the evidence be any more clear against her? I don't evemn think she should *only* be charged with child abuse...she should have everything thrown at her including attempted homicide. |
Karuuna | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:30 pm     Kaili - she plead not guilty, but has also admitted her guilt. This will leave her room to make a plea bargain; which I personally think is the best option in this case. |
Reader234 | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:53 pm     Thank you hillbilly. I think I feel helpless when children are abused. I have read many of Bob Greene's columns on how serious children are abused, and returned to their families. There are children that are kept in dog cages, and are chained and beaten for soiling themselves, and those children were returned, those parents served little time. I think I heard that she pleaded not guilty to a felony. I believe she admited to hitting her child, but not a felony, semantics I'm sure it is a question of law, which I am woefully ignorant of. I think car made an interesting point of the child disappearing, and it seems that due to national media coverage they are examining the child closely, is it due to the family being travelers? I have no idea. I just wish families like Earthmother described could be safer. Children have no voice in this country, some are trying, but there are rules for the wealthy, and rules for others, Bless the beasts and the children, for in this world they have no voice, they have no choice... |
Hillbilly | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:14 pm     I'm not saying this was normal discipline in any way, shape, or form. All I'm saying is that this woman has admitted her guilt, agreed to get help, and do whatever anyone wants her to do...even serve prison time. She just wants her daughter with someone she knows. I always think it is best to try to keep the family unit intact if at all possible. And I do understand the seriousness of child abuse. I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I will admit that I'm not familiar with these Irish Travelers but it seems unfair to judge everybody in that group on the actions of maybe a few. Isn't that stereotyping or profiling this family because of they are Irish Travelers. I'm not trying to start a ruckus...I'm just asking since I am unfamiliar before this case. <Reader...I'm not sure why you're thanking me???> |
Hippyt | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:55 pm     Hillbilly,I think there were 3 things involved in the girl being taken away. The first to be sure the girl was all right,have her checked by a doctor,and make sure she wouldn't be in any more danger from her mom while they're investigating. The second,the family had all ready been uncooperative with police,and they probably thought she is a flight risk. (After all the mom had all ready missed a court date in Dallas on a different charge.) And, third,the fact that there was no permanent address for the family. JMO,but this last one was probably not even considered since the childn's safety was being considered first. I would hope they'll return the girl to her Dad soon,it can't be easy for her,her brothers or the family. |
Rissa | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:25 pm     I have a different attitude towards the family getting the girl back. 1)It's highly unlikely that this mother has not done this before. You don't look over your shoulder and check for witness' before spontaneously smacking your child for the first time. If she has three children and all those years as a *good* mother under her belt then she would have to be severely unbalanced *in the moment* to do something so 'out of character' for her. 2) And this relates to #1... the sister stood by. I have two sisters, both wonderfull mothers. If one of them did something that was so out of character (forget all about the violence itself for the moment), so beyond how I had ever seen her act before, I would be just as scared for her as for the child. The sister didn't flinch, the sister was not seeing something new and surprising. This could be similiar past behavior by her sister or by others in her family but either way, she has been exposed to it before. 3) The family, including the husband who wants the girl back obstructed a police investigation. They did not think that the beating was something that needed to be punished, they tried to protect the attacter and not the best interest of the little girl. 4) Let's be real... this woman will get a slap on the wrist. Maybe a bit more because of all the media coverage. Then what happens? Hubby going to turn his wife away at the door? Putting the girl back with the family does not protect the child from the mother as we have already had proved to us. Until this case is completed and all the information known, I think it's more than reasonable to keep the girl away from the family home as is being done. I am still waiting to hear a medical report. No way do you hit a small child right in the face without damage, from what the media has said so far.. it doesn't seem possible that the attack happened as the video seems to indicate. There is still quite a bit of missing information. Hillbilly, the Irish Travellers have a NASTY reputation. Can probably find info. about them on the web. Wasn't it two members that set up that scam at DisneyWorld a few years back? Made it look like a hotel guest had been raped and beaten and then tried to sue for millions? The girl even allowed herself to be attacked by her family so she would have the bruises and cuts. Hate to generalize though since it seems that the two older brothers were in school and that is not the typical profile. |
Car54 | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:32 pm     NBC Nightly news re-aired part of their in-depth story on the Travellers tonight. It was originally on Dateline, I think. |
Bohawkins | Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:46 am     Good post Rissa |
Karuuna | Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:58 am     The problem with the mother not being treated, educated and reconciled with her children, is that damage continues to be done to the child psychologically by the estrangement. The psychological damage of wrenching a child away from the only family she has known will last her entire life. The counseling offered to this child from public sources is almost always too minimal to be effective. Ultimately, what is best is for the child is to be reunited with the woman she is bonded to as her mother, and for that mother to be a good enough mother. Children who are removed from their families almost never do well; and often no better than they do if left with their families. That's the very sad state of the systems we have in place, whether its CPS or the foster family program. What we really need is a remaking of the systems designed to deal with child abuse. In the programs that I mentioned above, which are designed around prevention and intervention, rather than punishment and incarceration, the success rate is very high. And that means better parents, and happier healthier children. Isn't that the ultimate goal? |
Pamy | Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:52 pm     FYI..Dr. Laura has been talking about this case and has been outraged at the low bail set for the Mother. She has put the #'s of the Judges involved on her website for people to call and voice complaints/concerns. I think the site is www.drlaura.com |
Bohawkins | Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:15 pm     Dr. Laura obviously doesn't understand the purpose of bail. It is not a means of punishment. While the main function of bail is to assure that the accused will appear in the criminal proceeding, it is also related to the constitutional presumption of innocence; the availability of bail prevents the defendant from suffering the penalties of a crime, i.e., incarceration, before an adjudication of guilt has been made by the court or jury. The U.S. Constitution does not guarantee the right to bail- the court may determine that the nature of the crime and other factors make the defendant a danger to the public. Rather, it mandates that ‘excessive bail’ not be imposed. Almost every state constitution guarantees a right to bail and prohibits excessive bail. There are no specific guidelines as to what the proper amount of bail should be, however, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that bail that is set at an amount higher than is reasonably calculated to assure the presence of the accused at trial is excessive. I think the low bail combined with the placing of the child in foster care is the wisdom of Solomon. The purpose of a high bail is when flight risk is high. She will stick around, which will be indicative of her concern for her continued custody of her child. |
Pamy | Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:14 pm     Good post Bo! I also wanted to state that I am not a Dr Laura fan, I just happened to hear it today and saw this thread and thought I would drop the FYI. |
Hillbilly | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:39 am     Here's a link to an article titled "Experts Explain Toogood's Culture". Click Here |
Pottedplant | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 03:29 pm     Hillbilly, that link did not work for me. Re the incident. At first I thought it was cruel to take the child away from the parents/family, but now I am in full agreement. Irish Tinkers (PC term travellers) are grifters on the most part. O'Reilly last night said the family owns four cars worth about $100,000. with no job?? The more we learn, I think its going to be more shocking. |
Hillbilly | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 03:57 pm     It looks like someone changed the link on me. Please try this. Link |
Hillbilly | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:00 pm     No...that doesn't work either. I'm not sure why it isn't working. But here is the article. Experts Explain Toogood's Culture By LISA FALKENBERG Associated Press Writer September 25, 2002, 10:19 AM EDT DALLAS -- The tearful testimonial Madelyne Gorman Toogood gave in front of glaring TV cameras after she was videotaped beating her daughter was starkly uncharacteristic of the reclusive, media-shy Irish Travelers culture to which she belongs, experts say. Toogood, who was caught beating her 4-year-old daughter, Martha, in a department store parking lot, said she is a member of the clannish, nomadic culture of descendants of Irish immigrants, most of whom came to the United States as refugees during the potato famine in the 1840s. "By nature, they're very reclusive people," said Joe Livingston, a South Carolina state investigator who has been tracking Travelers for nearly two decades. "They tend to shy away from publicity." Some law enforcement experts who have studied the culture paint it as a secret society, fond of material wealth evidenced by gaudy jewelry and new vehicles. Police often associate Travelers with scams involving fraudulent home repair that target the elderly. They tend to use aliases, carry bogus identification cards, and avoid contact with non-Travelers, whom they call "country folk," authorities said. But professors and academics said the reclusiveness is a defense mechanism against stereotypes and the ancient persecution that has haunted nomadic peoples throughout history. Travelers, who may be Irish, English, or Scottish, have no more criminals among them than any other ethnic culture, experts said. "If there were, they could not sustain their living," said Larry Otway, who began studying Irish Travelers in 1977 and has worked as a paralegal and adviser on court cases involving Scottish travelers. What the clans in the culture do share, Otway said, is a nomadic lifestyle, a language called "Scelta" with roots in Gaelic and Romani, an almost "pathologic" devotion to Catholicism, and an anti-bureaucratic form of self government that he describes as a "consensus democracy." The largest Traveler settlement is a group of 3,000 in Murphy Village, S.C., experts said. Toogood is believed to belong to the Greenhorn Carrolls, a Traveler group in the Fort Worth area. Estimates of the U.S. Traveler population vary from 20,000 to 100,000. Ian F. Hancock, a professor at the University of Texas who wrote the Irish Travelers entry for the Encyclopedia of the South, said a distraught Toogood called him Thursday seeking advice. "She was scared to turn herself in because she knows very well how the police feel about the Irish Travelers," said Hancock, who has a reputation as a sympathizer of the group. "She didn't think she'd get a fair shake and she knew she'd been rough with the child." Toogood, who also has two young sons, remains free on a $5,000 bond and is scheduled to appear in court Oct. 7. If convicted, she faces up to three years in prison. She was scheduled to have a 90-minute supervised meeting with her daughter on Tuesday but the child, who is in foster care, was sick. An attorney for the state said Toogood would be allowed to see Martha on Wednesday if the girl has recovered from the flu. Hancock and other academics said they believe Toogood's case has been sensationalized by the media because of her ethnicity. "As bad as what she did, and it's inexcusable, I still think there's an awful lot of profiling going on," Hancock said. "Very much is being made of her ethnic background. If she were German American or Italian American, would that even be an issue?" Copyright © 2002, The Associated Press |
Moderator | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:17 pm     Hillbilly, I didn't change your link, just changed the name since it was so long it made the screen too wide for some to read. (K) |
Hillbilly | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:22 pm     Oh...that's fine. Even when I tried reposting it and tried it it didn't work for some reason so I just posted the article. |
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