Archive through August 20, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Sept. 11...:
Archive through August 20, 2002
Whoami | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:52 am     It's incredible to believe that in just over one month, it will have been a year. I saw an article on what Broadway shows were deciding whether or not to perform that day. And today, I overheard a news report that the airlines are coming up with a "plan" for reduced fares that day, to encourage people to fly. It hadn't even occurred to me what it would be like for folks who may have to fly that day until I heard that report. The hair on my neck literally stood on end. And I had goosebumps raised on my arms. It gave me the creeps. After those two reports, I was thinking somewhere in the back of my mind that the anniversary is a long way off, and that these plans were sort of premature. Then I realized it's closer than I thought. Time has flown, yet at the same time, seems to have been standing still. I hope I don't irritate others in posting this thread. The last thing I want to do is rehash over and over the horrors of last year. It was just a wierd awakening to realize a year is almost up. |
Gail | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 05:11 am     I've been thinking about it all week. |
Resortgirl | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:14 am     I've been thinking a lot about it too. I haven't talked to most of my returning guests (who have become dear friends) since the tragedy, so when they get here we have been rehashing the whole thing. The one underlying feeling that they all express is the feeling that their security and sense of peace has been taken away, perhaps forever. Many of the people who are parents wonder if they had known that this would happen would have chosen to bring children into this world. It is so very sad. |
Kat | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:35 am     I have been thinking about it too from many perspectives. As a New York resident it obviously hits closer to home and as a teacher we have the additional responsibility of trying to explain it to children. The mayor and the Governor have asked that all schools and teachers have discussions with the children at 10:30 am to talk about that day one year ago. The mayor and the governor have also asked that people all over the country light candles outside their homes that evening. |
Faerygdds | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 08:07 am     I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, BUT... The reality is that we never had security. Something like Sept 11th was always possible, but we chose as a country to foolishly beleive that "it would never happen to us". Well... it did. It doesn't make our world any worse than it was and it doesn't make us any less safe than we were. In fact it does the opposite. We are now safer than ever. Not because our government is "protecting" us, but because we are are that it can INDEED happen to us. *I* am a child of the eighties... a child of the "Cold War" era. I saw the Berlin wall first hand... heard shots fired as someone tried to cross it to have what we hold so dear -- Freedom. And 2 years later I saw that wall come down. I remember it well... I cried when it happened because I knew that not only did those people have what they wanted - democracy, but also because I knew they were unable to handle such a burden as communism was the only thing they had known. Now I grieve for THIS country. Because we have stopped believing that we are so great that none would dare to defy us -- how ARROGANT! We are now the targets of hate... but then again... haven't we always been? Just because we now choose to recognize that hostility doesn't mean that it didn't exist. The world will go on... lives will continue... and civil liberties will be lost because we feel that we need to be protected rather than taking the responsibilty for our own personal freedom. Freedom has a price... just ask any soldier past or present. It's a ideal worth fighting for... it's an ideal worth dying for... So when Sept 11th rolls around yet again... light your candle in remembrance of those brave and unwilling heroes who fought a battle on our own land for freedom, whether they knew it or not! If you truly want to honor them just remember one thing... don't let have died in vain... (2 cents deposited) FaeryGdds |
Maesin | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 09:26 am     ...so many thoughts, emotions, ideals, plans... |
Kaili | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:14 am     Faerygdds I agree with a lot but not all of what you have to say. I don't believe that we are that much safer today than we were 1 year ago. In some respects yes, but not all around. One year of time is a good amount to think about what has happened and to see the results. Sept. 11 woke many up to something that was inevitable. My grandfather said for years that something like this would happen, although he didn't live to see it. And again like in the past we are already letting our guard down. A few thoughts about airport security...I remember when I was younger after certain hijackings the security at airports increased. Within a year or two it was much more lax. Does anyone else remember that there were other times that only ticketed passengers were allowed past security? Then it stopped. It may last longer this time, but it is already relaxing a bit. Certain items are being allowed on flights again. I had glass bottles of beer on my carry on and I was let through. Sorry, but I feel glass bottles are more dangerous than fingernail clippers. I haven't been in first class in a long time, but are meals still served with wine glasses and metal utensils? As for not being allowed past security without a ticket- they do not ask for ID at this point but only look at your ticket. If someone really wanted access to that part of the airport they could purchase a ticket to walk though- even a ticket in someone else's name. But regardless, I don't believe the next attack will involve airplanes. And now we have moved on to the Iraq issue- an issue in which we have very little global support, particularly if we strike first. We are getting dangerously close to a new world war, one that will by far be more deadly than any in the past because we (and they) now have more advanced capabilities than ever before. If we strike first, bad things are going to happen. People have always hated us, and to be honest I believe that we should be looking at why we are hated around the world rather than having a "with us or against us" mentality. The US is a very very arrogant nation and we tend to feel that our way is the only way. We are not very tolerant of differences in this world despite our attempts to speak otherwise. We go into other nations who do not want us there and try to change them to suit our own greedy needs. Much of the time I believe our interventions are economically motivated as opposed to humanitarian. We are a very one sided nation to the degree that our civilian deaths are tragic (which they were), but the death we impose on other nation's civilians is collateral damage (I feel that their deaths are just as sad as our own). We do not understand that the people who do suicide bombings and that are willing to die for their cause often do not know any other way to live. The people in Afghanistan, Isreal, etc...the children in these countries. They were born and have been raised in a place where they have never known the feeling of security. Their lives have been surrounded with death and violence and they cannot fathom what it is like to live in a country where they feel safe from bombs and attacks. They know nothing about us because they aren't given the information. I'm not saying that all Americans are the same, that anyone is justified in commiting acts of terror, or that they are right and we are wrong. It isn't that simple. there are a lot of good people in the United states and in every other nation in the world, and there are bad ones in all the same places. Timothy McVeigh was an American and he killed as heartlessly as did the Sept. 11th attackers. I guess maybe I'm rambling a bit and maybe even contradicting myself in some places. I just think that we need to step back from our emotions about being attacked on our soil and look critically at what is going on here. What have we accomplished in our war on terror? Are we really safer? For every one terrorist we killed, how many more did we create? Do those who are against us really have any more respect for us now than they did on Sept. 10th? Freedom does have a price, but if the price is our civil liberties then we no longer are truly free are we? Right now I am exercising my right to free speech- something that was dampened for awhile after Sept. 11 because anyone who did not fully support Bush and his aggressive stance was labeled as un-American, un-patriotic, or as a traitor. I have noticed that there are a lot less flags flying and less blind patriotism these days than there was 11 months ago. I guess we are settling back into our routines. I know that I am going to be torn apart for this post, but I am tired of feeling that I have to be quiet or I will offend people. Yes, I care what happened and I think it was awful, tragic, and heartbreaking. Tears come to my eyes still when I read about the children and families who lost people on that day. I'm not heartless, but I can still look objectively at what has happened and my thinking has led me to a different place than many people. Or maybe a lot of people agree with me but are still not comfortable saying it. So, in closing, I know that many will probably disagree with me on 99% of what I said and I can deal with that. We all have our own opinions. I stand by mine, but I respect you for yours. I didn't intend to write this much- hope you have been able to bear with me through this. And I hope that this won't be held against me in other threads because I would hate to feel ostracized for this post in all the other threads. Thanks for reading! |
Jkm | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:16 am     It's my daughter's birthday.... She was only 9 last year. Now her birthday will never be forgotten. |
Whoami | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:21 am     You bring up a very good point FaeryGdds. People thought nobody would dare attack us on our own soil. Then Pearl Harbor happened. You think we would have learned. But, we obviously let our guard down. Yes, we are now probably safer than ever, since our awarness has been awakened. But, how long till we let our guard down again? As for candles, I'll probably light one inside my home (nowhere to light one outside, without causing a fire risk--drought conditions here). Then I'll leave my porchlight on all day, and fly my flag. I'll also drive with my headlights on all day. |
Twiggyish | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:45 am     Jk, I know it must be hard to make the day special for her, but yet, it is a sad day. I don't think we've ever quite had any other day like it. |
Whoami | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:02 pm     Wow Kaili and Jkm, two very powerful posts that I nearly missed cause I was composing one of my own. Jkm, we have a member listed in the TVCH Official Birthday List whose birthday is on Sept. 11th. I'm wondering how she handles this date now. Has your daughter expressed any feelings of celebrating her birthday? I know our family never celebrates birthdays on the actual day, cause of everyone's schedules. But that doesn't stop us from setting aside a special day to honor the birthday girl. On the actual birthday, we get a card/phone call, just to let them know they aren't forgotten. What I'm getting at is, if your daughter feels badly celebrating on a day everyone else is in mourning, then ask her if she'd like to choose an alternate day to celebrate. If it doesn't bother her, then honor her on her day as planned, and honor the Sept. 11 victims in your own way on the side. Kaili, I agree with your post too. I agree that our "leaders" often are economically motivated to "intervene" in other countries affiars. During the Gulf War, I wholeheartedly beleive it was about oil and money. Was it Bush, or someone else that said we were going over there to support Kuwait cause "no country has the right to invade another country to take away it's land...etc." Or something to that effect. My immediate response is, what the heck did WE do to the Native Americans 200 years ago? That one still makes me bristle. |
Bob2112 | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:05 pm     Hey Kaili, That was very well written and I find myself ageeeing with you 100%. I am proud to share a state border with you. ...Now watch 99 people disagree with this just to make your 99% statement come true...  |
Kaili | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:12 pm     Yay! The first two responses didn't rip me a new you-know-what!!!! Glad to see that people here are not blinded by what we are/have been told that we MUST believe and how we MUST behave. |
Car54 | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:54 pm     I don't travel that much, but recently I flew several times from Providence to Pittsburgh. Frankly we chose to go from Providence so we did not have to fly from Logan in Boston because of all the problems. The security at both airports was stellar. The employees were alert, there was someone almost every few feet all along the line of the ticket line, the same at the Xray machines, and I was asked for ID at least three times within the airport...the last time at the boarding gate each way. I was chosen once for a more intensive search in Providence...my shoes were Xrayed, my hand luggage was thoroughly searched. I saw this frequently. I was happy to see how serious everyone was and how diligent the staff at each airport was. I am just beginning to recover from a lot of symptoms of depression that got a lot worse after 9/11. My goal this year is not to allow myself to participate in a lot of emotion and political discussion this year. I feel like I am just barely emerging from a black hole. This event took almost a year of my life from me. I refuse to go back there. I am trying very hard to remember but to retain my balance as this date comes closer. |
Faerygdds | Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 07:20 pm     Kaili... I agree with you 100%... I'm just saying that we ARE safer than we were a year ago because we now know that this CAN happen. As far as all the things being done to protect us.. I thought I made it pretty clear that it's kind of a farce as we relax just as quickly as we get excited. Politically.. well.. let's just say that I won't get into it... I'll just say this. Last week a coule of witnessers came to my door (on a SUNDAY no less!)... Now most of you know I am a Neo-Pagan. I told them this very bluntly at the beginning so they would know right off the bat where I was coming from. They asked me if I thought that true peace was possible in the world and what I thought was keeping it from being a reality. I told them it all goes back tot he tower of Bable. When we as mortals thought we could ACTUALLY build a tower to God... we wanted to televate ourselves to that level (arrogance has been around for a LONG time!). The powers that be decided to divide us... And how did they accomplish this little feat? They gave us LANGUAGE! Words are SO powerful. they can divide us or bring us together. SO I told these two individuals that the only way to obtain true peace is to stop talking to each other and just love each other and feel instead. I think I shocked them... after all... how could a PAGAN think this way. Well... they are coming back this Sunday for further discussions on the subject... Kaili... I would never bash someone for their opinion... argue it -- maybe... ok probably! But I never intend to bash! You were right on though. Politically things are a mess and most of the mess was caused by what boys and girls (very sarcastic Mr Rodgers tone)? WORDS... LANGUAGE... I guess people don't like hearing things like: "You are either with us or against us" or being called "Evil Doers"... hmm... I can't possibly think why!!!!! (very sracastic tone here!) Either way.. Love you guys.. thanks for letting me ramble again... FaeryGdds |
Dahli | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:42 pm     I was on the Hallmark site yesterday and saw that they are calling sept 11 'Patriot Day' Is this a new card selling thing or has it always been called that and it's just an awful coincidence? Even though I'm Canadian we typically hear about these 'holidays' and this is a new one for me Can anyone enlighten me? |
Pamy | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 06:49 pm     In our hallmark that Patriot section has been around since last December. I sent a few of them to my husband and his crew while they were deployed during that time. |
Kaili | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:20 pm     Dahli- I believe that there is a feeling by many here that referring to it as "Sept. 11" is wrong and that it should be given a proper name (like D-Day, etc) so at some point someone somewhere (possibly Bush) decided to call it Patriot Day. |
Reiki | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:46 pm     As far as I know Patriots Day is a holiday celebrated in Massachusetts and Maine on or about April 19th, commemorating the battles of Lexington and Concord during the American Revolution in 1775. These battles were preceeded by the famous midnight ride of Paul Revere. In Boston, Patriot's Day in April has also become the day of the Boston Marathon. I live in upstate NY, so the important thing about this date for me is that I sometimes get an extra day to file my federal income tax returns as they are mailed to Massachusetts and the post offices are closed there that day. Being a procrastinator, this is very important to me. It seems that the City of San Diego, CA has proclaimed Sept 11 2002 to be Patriot's Day in their city. This was the only reference I know of Sept 11 being called "Patriot's Day." It would not surprise me that greeting card companies have taken the initiative in declaring a "holiday" marked by the enchanging of greeting cards. Just don't expect a card from me on September 11, 2002 or any year thereafter. I don't need a card to remind me what date it is. I plan on spending that day in a private contemplation on the tragic loss of life that occured that day, and in a respectful community commemoration of those lives and in graditude to the those who answered the call that day --- in New York City, in Washington DC, in a field in Pennsylvania, all over my country, and in the cities and towns throughout Canada who provided sanctuary to stranded travelors, and compassion to their neighbors to the south. Off my soap box... To answer you question, Dahli, September 11, 2001 started out as just an ordinary Tuesday. |
Hippyt | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:57 pm     I hate to be a wimp,but I couldn't read all the posts,I had to scroll. Maybe later.....tooo much still. Too much.. |
Dahli | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:55 pm     Thanks for your kind attentions to my question, it still seems so unreal but constantly 'there' in my head. I agree Reiki, no cards from me either.... |
Babyruth | Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 07:48 am     Kaili, Your post is wonderfully written and I couldn't agree with you more! You say towards the end that you "didn't intend to write this much", but I'm glad you did. You express yourself very well. Btw, I doubt you would be torn apart, ostracized, or "ripped a new one" for stating your opinion here at TVCH. You might get a very heated difference of opinion, but personal attacks are rare and not tolerated. Besides, Bob would squeeze cold water all over anyone who would try it.... |
Drpepper | Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 09:54 am     JKM, I too have a daughter (my baby) who's birthday is Sep. 11, she is going to be thirteen this year. Since it's during the week, we are going to have a slumber party on the weekend. It was really hard on both of us last year, but this board was the best shoulder that I have ever had. Don't feel guilty for celebrating, it is still that baby's birthday, and if she is like my daughter, she is SUPER SPECIAL. Give her a hug for me. (Eva) |
Kaili | Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:42 pm     Thank you Babyruth (and everyone else)...it was difficult for a long time to voice my opinions on this issue because I was never sucked into the "our way or no way" way of thinking and I was often looked down upon for feeling that we aren't perfect or always right. I feel that one can be patriotic while voicing dissent from the majority. I was told once in response "love it or leave it" but I personally prefer the phrase "love it or change it". |
Mack | Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:16 am     September 11, 2002 will be an emotional day for my wife and I. As Pentagon employees we live every day with the memories of lost friends and co-workers. We are still both very thankful that we escaped without injury and how very, very lucky we were that day. See ttp://members.cox.net/klugspage/ for our experiences of 911. By the way, Patriot's Day sounds good to us. |
|