Home Schooling
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Archive through August 30, 2002 25   08/30 10:06am

Schoolmarm

Friday, August 30, 2002 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ratlady, I think that it is great that you are doing so many great educational activities with your toddlers. I think that the "home-schoolers" were probably thinking that you were doing Kindergarten/grade school things with your toddler, as the traditional definition of home-schooling is educating your grade-school/high-school student at home instead of sending them to school.

Parents are the first educators and early childhood education is crucial for good cognitaive development. Reading to children, playing with counting bears, colors, shapes, singing songs, etc. are great activities. They also like same/different activities and putting things into categories.

Sometime later this weekend or week, I will post my favorite early childhood music activities, since that is my specialty. Frankly, I'm too fried from the first week of school to do it now!

Please be careful in linking classical music to boosting math skills. There is a correlation, but (as much as we music educators wish) there is no permanent causal relationship proven yet. (You would have to disect human brains to prove this). Music DOES activate the opposite brain lobe than speech, so listening, singing and playing music will help develop the neural net for the WHOLE brain. Music is also handy in helping remember things (ABC song, etc). The research that HAS been proven is that playing piano in Kindergarten boosted IQ significantly (not by chance) over computer skills, singing or story time. The changes in intelligence involving music are usually linked to spacial intelligence (think chess players or puzzles) and have proved to have long-term effects in young children, but only short-term effect with college sophomores.

Didn't I say that I was fried? ACKKKKkkkkk. Sorry about that diatribe! I'll post the early childhood materials later. Remember, parents of toddlers, that children learn best during play, so make your "learning" times playful!

<marm toddles up the hill to happy hour>

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Bob2112

Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi Kaili,

First let me say that all the comments in this thread have been excellent, and I very much enjoy reading the different opinions. There are so many choices to be made in life, and the more we listen to each others ideas, the better equipped we will be to make them.

My wife and I home school our 2 children who are now entering 5th and 7th grade. We are both products of the public school system and have turned out pretty good.
We became aware of the home schooling option when our oldest child was 3 and began researching what it was all about. Illinois turns out to be one of the more home school friendly states and we had no problem finding support groups that included thousands of home school families in the Chicagoland area. We attended a 2 day seminar and curriculum fair at one of the larger churches in the area. There were home school families from all the surrounding states, 100’s of vendor’s representing various curriculums and teaching philosophies and dozens of classes covering anything you could ever want to know about home schooling. By the end of the 2 days, we were heading home with a phonics-based reading program in hand and a commitment to home school our children.

It's taken me a while to respond to this thread because my brain goes off on a million tangents at once when discussing home schooling. :)
So, I'm going to try to stay on topic and address your last question. Feel free to ask anything you would like to know and I will give you our perspective on it. I do like Wargod's comments and observations, and agree with them all.
In regards to children who are being neglected and are unable to read/write/etc at older ages, this happens in public, private and home schools and is certainly something that should be investigated. But, it is not the norm for any of these types of schools.

Back to your question,
"how can just anybody teach their own kids as in depth as someone who is trained in a specialty area?"
Many home school parents would ask a similar question, but in reverse,
"How can someone who is trained in a specialty area teach 20-25 children that are all learning at a different pace?"

For the sake of discussion: When a student is completely lost 3-5 weeks into a high school calculus class, there appear to be a few options: figure it out on your own, work privately with the teacher, find a tutor or drop (or fail) the class. I would assume that the teacher would need to continue with the curriculum during class time for the majority of the class that is keeping up.
Will the teacher have enough extra time to work with 3-5 kids from each class that are just not getting it fast enough or at all? I believe no.

So that would leave the options of getting a tutor or failing.
From the home school perspective, teaching calculus when you have never had calculus (or didn't really learn it well) is a very daunting task. A few advantages the home school parent has over your mom include the choice of dozens of calculus courses (some designed for the math impaired. :) ), access to a teacher's guide for the course, access to the answer key to the problems, an 800 number to call with questions and quite often a local support group of other home school parents that have learned calculus and are willing to help.

Tutoring is an option that is open to both the public/private and home schooled child. The nice thing about tutoring in a home school group is that it is often done using a barter system. Since most everyone has areas of expertise and areas of deficiency, this usually works out quite well. Often, it is the older home school children that act as the tutors, which further solidifies their understanding on the subject.

One of the nice “fringe benefits” of teaching something you do not know is that you will learn in the process. There is no reason that an adult can not build up to and learn calculus while they are teaching their child the prerequisites to that course. If you have taken calculus in high school or college and have not really learned what it’s about or how to use it, why would you expect that your child would have a better experience? I would apply the same thoughts to most advanced subjects.

So, that’s enough from me for now. :)

I am talking in general here, but just find it easier to pick a specific topic as an example.
I am looking forward to any comments and questions that anyone has.

Oh, one last thing.
Since my wife has been home schooling the kids for several years now,
she regularly Kicks My Butt at Jeopardy!

Kaili

Friday, August 30, 2002 - 08:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bob...thank you. That was a great answer and you put the whole thing into perspective really well. So, based on your response, I understand how working with other homeschooling families can be beneficial and all that but it seems that in more rural areas that may not (possibly) work as well as in, say, Chicago where there is such a large population.

I think it's great that the parents can learn from the whole thing as well-- never hurts anyone to learn more. As for the math thing, you obviously showed your skills throughout the Riddles Thread when it was really hopping :) Also, if the parents have the time and dedication, I think it is good for the kid(s).

And, it isn't even 20-25 kids in a class. My own high school had very low teacher-student rations but my first student teaching assignment includes a class of 32. Scary! haha. Trying to keep everyone as close as possible to "on the same page" is something I worry about. Especially with mainstraeming special needs kids- I think it will be really difficult to meet their needs and the needs of every other kid that learns in a different way and at a different pace.

I love Jeopardy and Alex Trebek but I have a weird fondness for Family Feud. Nothing like seeing how "normal" the people on the show are. If only they would get a new host....

Bob2112

Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kaili,

Having lived here my entire life (so far), I don't have a good perspective on the more rural areas. The nice thing is that you don't have to make a life long decision about it either way. We evaluate our children's needs each year and balance that with other areas of interest. If we ever felt that the schooling was getting more than we could handle, or if the children developed a desire to attend a more traditional school, we would certainly consider enrolling them in a public or private school.

Having spent time with you in the Riddles thread and reading your other posts, I believe you will do a good job with your student teaching. You always have an interesting question when you start a thread and are very thankful and respectful of everyone's opinions. You should make a fine teacher. What's your specialty in case we need a tutor in that area?

OT, How did you fair with the new UPS contract that was signed?
Did you get both the contract raise and your annual raise?
Also, don't you think they've had enough different hosts of the Fued?

<I'll take Aternate Teaching Methods for $1000, Alex>

Aria

Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kaili,

I just came back an read over everyone's opinions here. I must say I am quite surprised at the number of people here who are doing or are familiar with home schooling.

Anyway I noticed that you questioned the resources in rural areas for home schoolers. Well I forgot to mention that I am in a rural area. In fact, the closest major city is three hours away and the closest small cities (50,000) are 2 hours away in either direction. Between here & there are only approx 15,000 people.

One of the reasons that homeschooling is so prevalent here is that there are no options other than the poor public schools. Just last year a french immersion school opened in the neighboring town but that is still 35 min away and too far in the winter months.

Homeschooling actually affords the kid in my community opportunities that they can never have with the public school, in terms of field trips and cultural experiences. It is much easier for a small group of home school parents to organize a trip to the city for a couple of days to see the planetarium, museums and zoo than for an entire school. The kids in the public schools here are lucky if they get one trip out of the valley a year.

Reader234

Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OK, I am a teacher... and I have 3 kids. I sub, in many districts, mainly to get a 'feel' for what is best for "MY" kids. (it may not be best for yours...etc)

My oldest is hearing impaired, and has a very high IQ. The one school district wanted to place him in a special ed class, we moved! He needed social interaction, and *I* needed time away from my special need kid!! I know my limitations, I love being a mom, and I have the 'gift' for teaching. BUT I needed to seperate the 2.

For me, involvement is the key!! I stay involved in my kids school. Both as a sub, and as a parent. I get to know who they hang with. I volunteer at the high school when it first opened, and saw who, and how the kids and teachers interact. I got such a good feeling, that I was able to go back to work. We are having financial difficulties, we need 2 incomes (dh lost job for 6 months due to 9-11 complic.)

But, we chose THIS way. It cannot work for everyone. But I challenge many a parent to visit their kids school, esp the jr hi PE programs!! Watch how many kids are in a class, not what they say, but see for yourself. Maybe I have a 'trust' issue after working in the Daycare industry when my 1st born was 2!! But I did what needed to be done for me and for my family.

Follow your instincts. Such great advice. I do know those that chose homeschooling and do a marvelous job!! I listened a few months ago to a radio program that interviewed kids that were homeschooled, and on their way to college. I was very impressed!! There was a homeschool family that took their school district to court AND WON to allow their son to play on the high school football team. (he tried out and earned a place on the team btw!!) There are cases where a homeschool student goes to high school for one or 2 AP (advanced Placement and they get college credit if they pass the test, and pay the college the fee for the course!) classes, again, those parents had to fight the districts for thier rights!!

Its not easy being a parent. Trying to find what is BEST for YOUR child!!

Rissa

Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 09:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Reader, I agree with you about limitations. I know mine too.. I have neither the discipline or desire to teach my kids full time. That being said, I have three kids in the Catholic system and the school they are at is AMAZING!! I have never NEVER seen a school where every single teacher is so devoted to the kids (they are actually in trouble with their union right now because they settled their contracts with a lower raise in order to up classroom funding and they did it behind the provincial union's back because they knew they wouldn't get approval). They have set very high academic standards and in sports, they have a policy that every kid who wants to play, gets to play. They were saying last year that they are pretty much the only school where virtually every teacher is involved in at LEAST one extra-circular activity or team.

Now, I said I have no interest in home-schooling full-time but my girls do do EXTRA work for me at home. I give them reading assignments where I either give them short essay questions to answer or they write a book report. I also make up sheets of math questions everytime I see they are struggling to understand a new concept. When I was growing up, my dad had a big chalk-board on an easel outside our bedroom doors. Every morning he would make a column for each of us with about 5 very hard math questions that we had to answer before we went to school. We also had to hand in a book report each month that he graded according to our grade level. At the end of the year, the highest average got a prize. (I won a ten speed one year and I remember we all tied once(I know, dad rigged it. LOL) and we went to Disneyworld). I had a year where every month, the book report had to be on a different religion, another year where they all had to be non-fiction about a historical event (Little Immigrants by Kenneth Bagnall was one of them and my daughter is reading it now). When my sister had trouble reading, he bought a cassette recorder and had her sit down and read into it, so she could play it back and hear where the problem areas were. I have just always accepted that *BOTH* the school and the parent were teaching. We never had discussions about whether or not we would go to University after high school, it was a given, and all four of us did go, it was not an option. LOL

After all that rambling, I guess my point is (she has a point!!) that it doesn't need to be one or the other, but a combination of both. I know there are exceptions, some areas have truly horrible schools and some kids are just incapable of learning in any organized instutional manner. My oldest daughter (13) played: basketball, volleyball, bandminton, band, school choir, track team from the school, plus took soccer with the community and still managed to make the Honor Roll With Distinction list last year. I couldn't imagine matching this at home. It would take up every hour of my day, PLUS I have two other kids and all the normal time-fillers (housework, my genealogy, school volunteering, other family). Hat's off to those who can manage it!!! I know I couldn't and will never try.

Wargod

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This really isn't a home schooling question...more about parental involvement in their kids educations and volunteering with the schools and such. But, I can't imagine anything more involved than home schooling, and there has been some great, thoughtful post here, so decided to put this here.

I had my first parent/teacher conference with my son's first grade teacher today. (He's doing very well, and has shown amazing improvement in 5 weeks, LOL.) Anyways, she was telling me about a new program she is putting into effect this week. She is going to be sending home flash cards...some are words, some number families. We go over them at home, then on Friday if the child is ready, she'll run them through the set, and if they pass, send home another set of flashcards. She said this year she feels comfortable doing this as she has many parents who are working at home with their kids and studying, and also mentioned that she has several parent volunteers to help out in class, after class, and before class, which for her was unusual. And it got me thinking.

First of all, even when I worked, I knew that when I came home, we had homework to do. We'd sit at the table, go over the homework, read together. There was never any question in my mind that I had to do this. I'm a parent...part of my job as a parent is to make sure my kid does his homework, studying, and understands what he's doing. (I know this is easier with younger kids, LOL.) I just had one of those moments when she said this year was unusual in that so many parents were there for their kids, where I went "wow." I'm thinking that for at least kids k-3rd grade, homework time together is important. And even when they're older, I'll be there to help out if they need it.

Second, I worked for the first 6 years of my sons life. He started preschool at 3, my daughter at 2. I wasn't able to do volunteer work in their classes, or make it to feild trips with them. I was always grateful for the parents who could volunteer their time....not only for their child but mine as well. When my sons teacher sent home the paper for volunteers needed, I didn't hesitate in signing up for whatever was needed. I don't work outside the home, I have the time to volunteer, whereas I know alot of parents do have to work, or take care of their elderly parents or younger children or whatever and they can't do it.

The whole thing just made me wonder though. Are parent volunteers becoming something teachers don't see anymore? Is it normal to tell your kids to do homework, while you go clean the house or whatever. I don't think I'm doing my son a disservice by sitting at the table with him and going over his homework and helping him, but when do you stop reminding them to do it, and when do you step back and let them take responsibility for their own work? Or do you? How involved do you get?

I'm 29, I didn't go to college after high school. I waited til my son was about a year old to go back to college....that was hard. I want my kids to know I think their educations are important. School, homework, learning come before anything else...like TV, video games, playing outside. I want them to know school comes first, and that I will be there to support them through it all. That life will be easier with a good education to back them up, instead of waiting years to go to college when they have 15 other important things to concentrate on like I do, lol.

Not1worry

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wargod, that's really interesting. I have noticed some schools have given up on trying to get the parent involved. I home school my 2 kids, they've never been in public school. Sometimes I think some parents might as well home school with the amount of time spent on homework. My son is a 1st grader also and right now is a great time to build those good study habits, but I wouldn't expect him to handle a whole lot on his own yet. I'm so glad to hear a parent saying that they realize their responsibilty in their child's education. I was starting to worry, one of my friends told me she could never home school. Her reasoning - she stayed at home with them the first 5 years, her job of teaching them is done, and it's her reward for those years of hard work to put them on the school bus and let someone else take care of them. Yikes!

Wargod

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Now see, I know for a fact I couldn't home school.
As I said, they learn better in a group setting (I know with my son at least, he needs to have other around to challenge him, its the way he learns best.) But, I can be involved with their homework, and volunteer in class.

There are times (Like when he's off track) that I think I'm doing the majority of homework...but, his teacher pushes these kids hard, so I know why she sends so much work home during these times.

I guess I was just shocked that his teacher was suprised by the amount of parental involvement this year. When I quit my job in June, I was thrilled that I would get to spend more time with my kids, volunteer in their classes, and try to e them excited about school and learning. I'm definitely not trying to criticize parents who cant do this stuff. I know, after working for so long, that parents have jobs, they have younger kids to take care of, or other things they devote their time to.

These years go by so fast....pretty soon they won't want me around all the time,LOL. I'm just enjoying the fact that right now they want me there!

Hillbilly

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You know...my mother never volunteered at school and I don't EVER remember her helping me with homework. And that was a LONG time ago. Of course, me and my siblings loved to read and for the most part caught on to school stuff pretty quick so maybe we never asked her for help.

Sia

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Help/advice needed, please:

A friend asked me this week to help her locate the necessary resources for applying for scholarships available to home-schooled children. Her son wishes to attend Capital University in Bexley (Columbus), Ohio, as a music major. His grades are excellent & he's been home-schooled his entire life. The boy is 17 & will apply for entry to Capital for fall 2003. Where do we start? Thanks very much! (And thanks for starting this thread!)

My friend has completed the current equivalent of the FAF. They are looking for need-based grants and/or scholarships as well as grants/scholarships awarded on the basis of merit.

Rissa

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The volunteering question is interesting. My parents never volunteered at my school (both worked) and I don't remember ANY parents in my classes at all growing up. The only time we would see one or two is during a field trip and we never did the amount of trips that my own girls do now.

Now though? Easiest to give examples. Last year my youngest was in kind. and they had a parent in for either mornings or afternoons... EVERY DAY. So that works out to approx. 40 volunteers a month. One or two were folks working more than one day but not the bulk. So out of a class of 18, we had 25-30 different parents each month. Most surprising to me was the amount of fathers. They would come in wearing their suits, having taken a half-day off from work in other words. Also had grandparents helping. For my older daughter (grade 5) I also volunteered once a month, half-day. For that age group they didn't use parents in the class but for clerical work.. laminating, copying, grading exams, etc. They only scheduled one parent a day for that grade and don't have a full roster so about 10-15 volunteers a month. There are also loads of parents who work in the kitchen or supervising lunch rooms and playgrounds, working in the office, operating phone lists, etc, etc., etc. All this gives the teacher's the extra time to spend with the kids and since they all DO, we are more than happy to help. This year we had 3 grade 7 class' with over 35 students, the school wasn't happy with this so they have asked parents to get driver's abstracts (costs about 20$) so they don't have to hire buses for field trips. Enough parents did that they could budget for another teacher.

My oldest is in Grade 8 now so I have spent a lot of years in a lot of schools and have never seen such a high level of assistance from parents. I have mentioned before that this school is just outstanding, the amount of extra non-paid work the teachers do with coaching, tutoring over lunch and before/after school, etc. I know that I would have severely resented spending so much time helping in my daughter's last school where the teachers showed up as the bell rang and were often out the door in the afternoon before the bulk of the students. But in this school, there is such a feeling of a team spirit that encases the whole community. Maybe it's a small town thing, I have always lived in cities before.

There is a side benefit as well. The kids are ranked in the very top for academic achievement for the district and province. When you see your kid's teacher so often... you make SURE your child get's their work done. LOLOL

Wargod

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When my son started preschool, my husband was on swing shifts. It was nice. When they needed someone to come in to help, had dad and me days, and feild trips, he was almost always available. For the first year anyways, then his schdule got hectic and changed, so that he couldn't do it as often.

I also had my mom and my bro in law, who could sub for us if we couldn't get away from work for feild trips or just when a parent was needed and we couldn't be there. My bro in law sat in for "dad and me" day last year, and had a blast doing it, LOL. From my perspective it helps the kids know that their family is there for them, if me or my husband can't get there, someone who loves them will be there.

I'm doing the clerical stuff now, lol. I fill the kids homework folders, run errands, and check homework. I also listen to the kids read, and help with projects in the class. I enjoy listening to them read the most...they have to read one book a week, at the end of the week, they read it to the teacher, and get a new book for the next week. She had 8 kids, who didn't get to read Friday, so I listened to them. Most of the kids read it in about 4-5 minutes and they were just bouncing with excitement that they could read it, then I got to the last little boy (I had noticed him chewing a finger nail and going through the book over and over again.) He's the little boy who lives down the street from us, but his mom is like me....don't let the kids run the neighborhood, so other than seeing him at the bus stop, I hadn't talked to him. I walked over to him, and he said, "I don't like to wead." OK, I was this kid when I was 6! LOL, I spent years in speach therapy, and theres still words I avoid saying so I don't sound stupid. A grown woman shouldn't say wuwld for world, but I can't twist my toungue around some words. Anyways, I spent 25 minutes listening through him struggle his way through this book. I know he can read, just doesn't read well out loud. Gave him encouragement, and just let him read. He got done, I told him he'd done a great job! When I got ready to leave, the kids were lining up to go to lunch, he broke away from the line and ran to give me a hug...I was so touched I almost broke down in tears. I'm enjoying volunteering. The kids are great, and it gets me out of the house doing something!

HB, my mom never volunteered, but she worked swing shift/graveyard shift the whole time I was in school. I do remember in the younger grades k-3 that there was always a parent in the class. But, after that I don't remember parent volunteers too much. The occassional feild trip, once in awhile in the library.

And Rissa, you are so right! LOL, when you see your kids teacher every day, you make sure their work is done! Also helps with us since my kid is known throughout the school as "chatter box," LOL. I find out at the end of the day if he was able to RAISE his hand for an answer instead of shouting out. And am able to discuss....daily....the problem with him, encourage him to raise his hand, to sit quiet while teacher talks. He's gotten much better in five weeks, but still occassionally when I pick him up, she'll say, well, he had another talking day, LOL.

Sia

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I've been extremely busy lately; I haven't had a chance to read this thread & post until today. First, I'm ROTFL 'cause a few of you have misunderstood a tidbit of info in my profile. I am not FROM Kansas; the quote in my profile is from the ROCK GROUP 'Kansas.' I don't indentify my geographic location in my profile. (If you don't remember Kansas & their many hits, you're missing some classic rock-and-roll that I just love.)

Second, I apologize for misspelling "home-schooling" (left out an 'o') in my post; I am mortified to have made that typo because I'm a very good speller. I'm DOUBLY mortified since my upcoming rant is about my son's Kindergarten teacher, whose writing skills leave much to be desired: her handwriting compares unfavorably with that of a third-grader, and her sentences are poorly-constructed & contain misused words & misspellings--but, then again, so do the papers that come home from the main administrative office of my son's public school. Next year I plan to select his teacher more carefully. I will ask to see samples of teacher-made worksheets in order to more accurately gauge the teachers' writing skills before choosing which one I want for him; if my son's teacher isn't a good writer, I don't feel she can grade his work properly. In fact, in addition to being unable to help him improve his writing, a poor teacher might even reinforce bad writing habits. (No offense intended to any teachers at this message-board; I'm certified as a public school teacher, myself. I've been out of the biz since my son was born.)

My back-story: A child's first teacher is his parent (usually the mother or custodial parent), & I've worked with my son since he was born. I think we began working with picture-flashcards when he was 18 months old. He's been reading since last school-year, when he was in a state-funded preschool where there was NO ATTEMPT to teach children ANYTHING AT ALL; their philosophy was "learning through play." We live out in the country & have no neighbor children with whom he can play, so he attended preschool for the socialization experience.

I'd hoped to home-school my son for Kindergarten this year, but met with resistance from the public school & also had health problems myself which kept me from committing emotionally to home-schooling. I was afraid that I was facing surgery & just didn't get all the preparatory work done I would have needed to complete (curriculum, application forms, etc.) in order to home-school successfully. Now that I'm feeling better physically, I still haven't gotten things organized sufficiently in order to actually begin home-schooling formally.

I worry about my boy while he's away at school, but this gives me an opportunity to work with my almost-four-year-old daughter; she & I have never had time alone together like we do now. I need to become better-disciplined in order to begin a formal instruction program with her. I've let her slide so far this school year.

I'm an older mother than most. My pregnancies were no picnic, and I'm a middle-aged, overprotective mama-bear who loves her babies and an overachiever myself, I guess--a hold-over from my own school years. These are the only two children I'm ever going to have, & I want to do what's best for them.

My son's Kindergarten teacher is nearly 20 years younger than I am, has no children, puts smiley-faces all over her notes and letters home--even into the notebook I was sending daily in Son's backpack--but she was my first choice of teachers after I met the four K teachers at the school last year. I should have researched the situation further before selecting. I'm certain she thinks I'm overprotective, but I don't know how to change, & I'm not certain that I'm willing to change.

Total commitment and extreme organization & self-discipline are necessary to successful home-schooling. I'm working on the latter two items. I'm grateful for all the links & advice in this thread; this is an important topic.