Archive through September 11, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Bush must stop: Archive through September 11, 2002

Twiggyish

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 10:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I needed a bit of a chuckle today. I've got a frustrating client and two classes to face tonight.

Mware

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 10:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm not going to offer an opinion here about whether I think it's a good thing or a bad thing, but one idea I haven't seen mentioned here is the idea of the "military/industrial complex."

All the pieces seem to fit to explain the president's directives.

1. We have an economy that is very sluggish right now, and many are pessimistic about its short term future.

2. We have a country that faces threats (real or perceived, you decide) from another country, and standing up to those threats can be made out as self-defense.

3. When this country goes to war, the increased governmental spending on the military stirs the economy and makes it go really well.

President Bush knows all these things too. By increasing the need for the military right now, against a foe that's widely disliked (the "Terrorists"), he can help right the economy and protect the country all at the same time.

Margie

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just had to add a number 4 in here...

4. Americans in a time of war tend to like to keep the status quo. Invading Iraq before November would almost certainly ensure that the Republicans keep control of the house.

Faerygdds

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OK... OT, but I finally added a pic to my profile!

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree, Margie - America is fairly split on the Iraq issue right now and that is at the forefront - it may have held true last year, and of course we Republicans would have been accused of somehow arranging or at least engaging in knowing complacency in the 9/11 tragedy for political gain. I think as many people will vote against status quo as for. Climate conditions in Iraq dictate the month of attack. Our soldier will have to fight wearing extremely hot and bulky anti-nerve gas gear. If we could have invaded in June, we would have but our soldiers were not equipped for the type of terrain and desert conditions prevalent in the Iraqi summer months. This is simply my opinion, and I certainly respect all others here posted. I may not AGREE, but I respect.

PS I have no problem with the economy righting itself through war. Better that then have to endure a depression along with having no choice but than to fight a war. We are not going to war to address our economy, and frankly it bothers me deeply that people consider that our President, like him or not he's ours, has so little regard for the lives of Americans that he would sacrifice them to save a few seats in Congress. I wouldn't even have suggested that about Clinton, and he retains a place of honor on my all-time active sh*t list.

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You know what, I should take my own advice and really not discuss this anymore today. My emotions, as are most others', are pretty tweaked. Maybe we can pick this up another day. Thanks for allowing me a forum in which to vent, though. As always, respect to all opinions.

Faerygdds

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OMG GOddess.. you cracked me up.. I need to laugh... by the way.. this is the line that did it...

"I wouldn't even have suggested that about Clinton, and he retains a place of honor on my all-time active sh*t list."

Had me rolling! First good "belly" laugh Ive had all day long...

THANKS!

Margie

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess,

If the election were held today, the democrats would probably retain control of the Senate and may take control of the house. However, if we went to war with Iraq, all bets are off.

In a time of war our country unites. It is us against them. Opinion ratings of incumbants usually go up and people are hesitant to elect newbies.

Now we all know that Bush is intent on invading Iraq regardless of what the UN or weapons inspectors say. All he has to decide on now is timing. October to get a push in the polls or November after the damage is done. It may sound cynical, but I'll bet we invade in October.

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I've understood the target date to be October as long back as March of this year. Maximize the amount of time likely for ground force to be able to survive. If we waited until November, ground troups would lose a valuable month of agreeable climate, and agreeable climate is a very scarce resource in Iraq. We may attack in October, maybe sooner by air, but in my opinion it's not going to be for a November election boost. Particularly if the President fails to present evidence convincing to the American majority that such a strike is necessary now - it could be an extremely risky move politically. (Sorry, Margie, just couldn't leave that hanging out there. Feel free to get the last word now if you'd like - I'm going to avoid politics for the rest of the day).

Margie

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 11:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry Goddess, it's hard to believe that the perfect attack conditions for our ground forces would just happen to coincide with the upcoming election.

Does the weather change so much over there from one month to the next? There would really have to be some extreme weather fluctuations to make it a one month window for invasion.

If they were planning an October invasion as far back as March what difference does that make? The election has always been set for november. ;)

Fluff

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 12:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I totally agree with you Margie. Republicans are really fighting to keep their majority in Congress. Bush knows that when there is something going on like a war, people will vote to keep the same administration for continuality , because it would lead to a drastic and perhaps unwanted change if they voted a totally different administration in while a war was going on. People would rather see the job done, than left unfinished, and this is what the White House knows. The same thing can be said about Bush working on getting elected for another four years.

Whowhere

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
That's FUNNY!! I, too, have an all-time active sh1t list that Clinton is on. What a coincidence.

Don't let 'em get you down Goddess - you and your opinions are not alone. Some of us do understand and agree with your points.

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I ain't worried, Whowhere - I KNOW I'm right (LOL).

Whowhere

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So do I!!! (LOL)

Mamaanja

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess and Who, I'm with you two! Surely there are more conservative leaning folks on the board than the three of us....

Faerygdds

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I myself am neither conservative nor liberal... it just depends on the issue! ;)

But as I said before.. Goddess's poo poo list comment made me completely crack up!

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Faerygdds has an open mind, which is a rare thing this day and age. I have huge respect for that.

Faerygdds

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Goddess... most ppl call it walking the fence... but it really isn't... I am VERY opinionated, but I am also ALWAYS willing to see the "other" side. It's my gift I think... gets me in a LOT of trouble though, but I deeply appreciate the compliment...

Minds are like parachutes... they only operate when OPEN!

I try to live by that, but sometimes it's HARD!

could also be that I hate to be categorized, so I stive to NOT fall into a category :)

Oregonfire

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
On ABC on the West Coast: Watching the kids ask Peter Jennings tough questions is amazing--"If we attack Iraq, couldn't Al Queda become an ally of Iraq?" Straight from the mouths of babes.

Weinermr

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess,

Did you hear anything new on that Hebrew National plant fire? Do they know how it started?

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Al Quaeda and Iraq are already natural allies if not allies in fact (which I think they are). Their common enemies are us and Israel. The money's been flowing freely, and Al Quaeda forces are believed to be in the northern regions of Iraq.

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No, I haven't today, Weinermr - let me go check and get back to you in a minute.

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It was an electrical fire, PTL, if there are any thanks to be had in such a situation. The fire department had been advised that all employees were out of the building. The company supervisors didn't realize that their Rabbi was still inside - he'd been overcome by smoke.

Weinermr

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OK Goddess. Thank you for checking. It was just a terrible accident then, and not a hate crime, or terror related. I was wondering about that. It's sad, in any case.

Oregonfire

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 01:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oops, did I trip into the political thread? I haven't really followed this Iraqi business--why care if you can't do a damn thing about it? Thought my cynical days were over, guess not. Wake me when it's over. (I know that sounds callous, but I don't know how else to deal with something that is out of my control. It's pretty much been that way since Election 2000.)

My comment was more about children being so perceptive and asking the tough questions, not just about Iraq but in general. Of course they could be mimicing what they hear on the news and from their parents, but little kids just amaze me sometimes.