Where Are All The Educated Bachelors?
TV ClubHouse: archives: Where Are All The Educated Bachelors?
Buttercup | Monday, July 29, 2002 - 03:49 pm     Snee, thanks for the visual!!  |
Fruitbat | Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 09:28 am     Adven! I tried emailing you awhile back and you have discontinued your address. Email me if you still have mine. Years ago I had a planters wart named Becky. |
Pcakes2 | Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:37 am     A little humor... A "Husband Shopping center" was opened where a woman could go to choose from among many men, for her husband. It was laid out in five floors, with the men increasing in positive attributes as you ascended up the floors. The only rule was, once you opened the door to any floor, you must choose a man from that floor, and if you went up a floor, you couldn't go back down except to leave the place. So, a couple of girlfriends go to the place to find men. First floor, the door had a sign saying, "These men have jobs and love kids." The women read the sign and say "Well that's better than not having jobs, or not loving kids, but I wonder what''s further up?" So up they go. Second floor says, "These men have high paying jobs, love kids, and are extremely good looking. "Hmmm," say the girls. But, I wonder what''s further up?". Third floor: "These men have high paying jobs, are extremely good looking, love kids and help with the housework.." Wow! say the women. Very tempting, BUT, there's more further up!? And so again, they go up. Fourth floor: "These men have high paying jobs, love kids, are extremely good looking, help with the housework, and have a strong romantic streak. "Oh, mercy me. But just think!?!?! What must be awaiting us further on! ..............So up to the fifth floor they go. The sign on that door said "This floor is just to prove that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping and have a nice day." |
Spygirl | Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:10 pm     HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is great pcakes! Thanks for sharing -- might even fit me....hehe...just a bit  |
Max | Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:15 pm     Where's the door that says "these men work hard, play hard, are considerate of others, have great senses of humor, know the value of stopping to smell the roses, and value strong, independent women." That's the door I want. |
Rabbit | Monday, August 05, 2002 - 04:03 pm     You call me Max? I was busy waxing the PT Cruiser and thought I heard someone call my name. Oh, never mind, it was just Mrs. Rabbit calling me. I gotta go take her mom shopping. <<If Granny Hare would just buy the jumbo size box of corn pads we wouldnt have to do this so often.>> |
Zed | Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:16 pm     You know...that exactly how I would have described you myself Rabbit. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 04:12 pm     Well, I’ve wanted to respond to this thread for awhile now—and I guess it’s time. I think it boils down to what works best for both people concerned. I’ve seen things work and not work all over the spectrum. It just depends on what you are willing to accept. There was a guy in our group at work who had just gotten divorced before he came to work with us (he has since obtained another job on site). His wife left him immediately after getting her degree. He doesn’t have one. (so much for the thought this just couldn’t happen to a guy) My ex wanted to make just a little bit more than me, because it was her belief that the person who made the most money got to have control of the decisions (too bad she didn’t share that with me before we got married—LOL). I think most feel this would happen more with guys than women—just goes to show it can happen both ways. I’m also not sure why a guy who doesn’t want to work and stay home is a freeloader, but when a woman wants to stay home and take care of the kids she is being a good mom, and the guy should be happy to provide the house income. I think society has as many roadblocks it puts on males as it does females—I could be wrong though. Now specifically about education. I don’t think it’s as important as some feel it is. But that is just my opinion for what works for me. I find things like honesty, caring, trust, and loyalty (being there for your partner, even when they are wrong—not forsaking them) as being far more important than “education”. I know people with educations that have both god and bad vocabularies. I know people without educations with both. Same with work ethic, drive to do well, assertiveness, self-security, etc. For me, besides those traits I mentioned that are the most important, things like assertiveness (but with a sense of fairness and decency), strength, confidence, humor and such characteristics are that much more of a turn on. I find those traits sensual--very sensual. I also believe there are lots of types of “intelligence”. There is what I call “book smart”. These folks have been able to learn a lot from a formal education process. Then there is “street smart” that to me means they are intelligent about living life and knowing how to handling themselves because they learned things as they went along. There is an intelligence based on “common since” which for me is a mixture of a little bit of both of the above. A person can go into a classroom and read how to throw a curve ball (using this only as an example about the above), but may not be able to throw one, or never even tried—but they can tell you how to do it. A person can never set foot in a classroom and have learned how to throw a curve ball by practicing and using it. Both know something about throwing a curve ball. Another person may have done both, and have the advantage of the ability to do it, with the intelligence of what the book said, and may be able to better gain the full potential of it’s effectiveness. But I think the person who just learned through doing it can achieve that as well. As far as the 2 degree difference—that doesn’t concern me at all. I wouldn’t be bothered at all to have a partner with a PhD. It wouldn’t bother me at all to have a partner who wanted to get her PhD while we were together. I wouldn’t care if she made less or more money than I made. For me money is a tool, and as long as I have enough to do the things like have a roof, food on the table, pay basic bills, etc, then anything after that is icing on the cake. I have a BS (how appropriate, you might say—lol). I went to a smaller school, although before going I had a strong ethic, a strong desire to do well, and to succeed. College didn’t teach me that. I work in a company that has lots of research staff--some the best in the world. They all have PhD’s (in some cases more than one) but outside of their discipline have a tough time figuring anything out. Some make great partners and some don’t. We also have a lot of staff with Masters. Some are extroverts and some are introverts. I’m one of those introverts Marm mentioned, although I was one long before I started college. For me, I’d date or marry a women with or without a college education—and she could have as many degrees of any type as she wanted. She could be anywhere on the pay scale. I would expect both of us to contribute to the relationship as a whole though. Neither one should get to sit and do nothing—as that is not what a relationship is about to me. And it doesn’t have to be 50/50 every moment. Sometimes life makes things so it’s 90/10 for a bit, or 40/60, or something besides 50/50. But in the end, after it’s all said and done, the relationship should be something both gave to pretty equally, and had a hand in building. In looking at what others have written, I see that in some cases there are people I agree and disagree with (depending on the part of their post). I think that may be one of the secrets of a good relationship—it’s not bad to disagree, because it’s going to happen plenty of times over the years. It’s what you do with the disagreement that counts the most. But for it to work, the basic fundamentals you both have must match fairly well. Having said that, I could be wrong in general, although for me it’s what works. And everyone has to find that—the things that work for them, and not anyone else. |
Resortgirl | Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 04:30 pm     Lance, You are a GEM! I don't have much to offer here except to say... I don't have any degrees, but I have a LOT of life experience and that experience tells me that true love has no boundaries. IT happens when you least expect it, and with a person you may have never believed you would be compatible with. I'm living proof of that. You have to keep your heart open to the possibilities or they may slip by you.  |
Goddessatlaw | Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 05:18 pm     Max: You may as well have been writing your post from my brain. I am too set in my lifestyle to allow anyone in general, any man in particular, to screw with the program. I've long since held that any marriage on my part would have to involve the man going away for long periods of time (I recommend Navy SEALS or fighter pilots on that score - generally very high on the boyfriend score - he-men, highly skilled, always busy with important matters, extremely loyal) or living somewhere besides with me (haven't found a general category of men accepting of this requirement). The educational level of the potential match matters in varying degrees. I've found that successful self-made men who have not had the benefit of a post-secondary education oftentimes exhibit more common sense, world awareness and willingness to respect a woman's opinion than those who have a matching degree. I never date lawyers and advise most of my friends against it for a number of reasons (mostly having to do with the girlfriend's personality makeup, more than the lawyer's). My best friends in the world are male lawyers and we have a great deal of fun. However, in my particular case, dating a lawyer is a nightmare since generally speaking we're both skilled in argumentative technique and refuse to lose. Minor tiffs turn into battles of monolithic proportion. What's fun about that? I've also found that experience has caused me to cut to the quick on obvious future problems - at our age, we know what we like and why waste valuable time with what we don't. I make myself very clear very early that only friendship is possible when I've identified a relationship killer. Also with experience comes the advantage of knowing exactly what guys are up to when they're up to it. They hate it when you call them on it, which to me explains much of why many men tend toward dating significantly younger women - if they've got crap they're trying to pull, they're more likely to get away with it with a less experienced female. Having said all that, I love dating men who can teach me things I don't know while also having an interest in the subjects that interest me. A man who immediately exhibits an appreciation and formal use of manners is also high on my list of appreciated traits. If you haven't walked into a room of fighter pilots and witnessed them falling all over themselves to get on their feet when you enter the room, you have not experienced one of the great joys God has bestowed upon women. I guess overall independence, self-confidence, success in one's chosen field and a true appreciation of and respect for an intelligent female are qualities I look for in a man. These qualities may be mixed and matched, but the one non-negotiable NEED I have is a broad-based sense of humor. If he doesn't make me laugh, end of discussion. My parents have almost always terminated any fight between them (and they could be absolutely vicious at times) when one catches the other off-guard with a wisecrack and sends the other into hysterics. Both have keen senses of humor, and I've found it's a quality I absolutely cannot do without when considering a prospective match. Anyway, these are just my rambling thoughts on the subject. I have never regretted not marrying at this point because I truly have not met the man I believed I could spend the rest of my life dealing with. I have faith that it will happen, but it certainly won't grieve me if it doesn't. I enjoy the life I've built for myself, and it's not going to be less of a great one if I fail to marry. Sure, it could be enhanced, but it will certainly be good enough without. |
Goddessatlaw | Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 05:22 pm     PS - Lancecrossfire, your post was awesome. |
Alegria | Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 08:43 pm     Great posts by strong independent thinkers. I have always thought (and found it to be true in my case) that when a person is involved and has a full life then they will be in a solid position when they meet someone who makes them question their solo status. The whole relationship thing can be very daunting. When attraction is involved it is hard to sift through and discern what is really there versus wishful thinking about what we want to see. For that reason I think it is good to take time to be certain about someone before blending lives too much. Goddessatlaw (great name btw) is right about the humor. Being able to laugh with someone and be able to relax and enjoy life together is really important. Oh! as far as being educated goes...education does train the mind and expand a person's capacity to think and extend their experience but it is the heart and other qualities like loyalty, generosity, decency and their capacity for sharing that will really stand the test of time. As long as someone is on a quest, interested in growing and learning, they be great candidates to grow old with. |
Spygirl | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 08:09 pm     Well, after being approached several times (and I mean by several different people -- lol) about my posts in this thread, I have been prompted to come back and further explain my position on dating down as it was so eloquently put earlier (just teasing...hehe). First, I realize after going back and reading my post that it comes across terribly. There is nothing I can say except -- DANG -- I need to flesh out these deep kinds of thoughts before etching them in the "stone" that is this message board. Second, what started my initial thoughts on this was that other people (including but not limited to certain family members) were suggesting that I may have problems finding someone interested in me with a Ph.D. -- someone who wouldn't feel threatened (very much like what Karuuna posted about her mom). That may be a totally unfair and inaccurate assumption to classify "all" men as being that shallow and insecure, but it was the assumption they held (not me) nonetheless. I have simply wondered about that since then. I have not laid claim to that assumption for my own and I don't believe that I ever will unless I come across it in real life. In my master's program, there were 7 women and 7 men and in a class we discussed this topic AT LENGTH. It seemed that even some of the men wondered (seemingly out of curiosity) what it would be like for the 7 of us getting advanced degrees -- and myself who was pursuing a degree beyond the master's. We speculated until the cows came home. Out of that very conversation, someone suggested jokingly that there "should be" no more than "two degrees of separation", i.e. if someone has a Ph.D., their partner would need a bachelor's degree. Keep in mind that the person came up with this as a spin off of the Kevin Bacon thing (6 degrees of separation). I realize NOW after being asked repeatedly why I would never date someone who didn't have TWO degrees that I had said something wrong. I realized that I totally screwed up my explanation in that post. I was off. Sorry guys!!! Proof read, proof read, proof read. Two degrees of separation (the "class consensus") was that for Ph.D.s, a bachelor's degree is "required". It was the class consensus that maybe a master's degree would "be okay" w/o a higher education partner (keep in mind...these are not MY words). I never meant to indicate that I would only date someone with "two degrees". I was trying to relay this "theory" that had been created, but I have no ties to the theory at this point. It is only speculation and I didn't communicate that very clearly. When I talked about the old boyfriend from high school calling, I didn't indicate, but this guy does not have a bachelor's degree. Does that bother me? No way. His condescending attitude and snide comments about my studying DID bother me. That is part of what concerns me in a general way. He has never been to college so his idea of studying is based on his understanding of high school studying -- he graduated 4th in our class and never lifted a finger to a book. He's incredibly smart -- MUCH smarter than I ever thought about being, so it isn't that I find him too "dumb" to date simply because he doesn't have a degree. He just doesn't understand my worldview and how difficult it is for me to get an advanced dgree and that I have to actually study A LOT (whereas he never did any studying the entire time I knew him in H.S.). In fact, he not only DIDN'T understand, he ridiculed me and attempted to make me feel stupid for putting forth the effort (although he was unsuccessful ). What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Well, maybe what I'm saying is that it isn't about the degree per say, but it is about worldview and what one wants out of life. If someone can't be supportive of my decision to pursue higher education and two advanced degrees, then we won't be dating I think this thread and the 1/2 dozen conversations that I have had as a result of this thread has educated me in a great way and caused me to look more closely at what issues are mine and what issues are what others have said to me that I do not agree with. I now have a better understanding of what I think about this situation although again, it will be completely dependent on how this plays out in real life. This was my own quote from the earlier post: Would I date someone without a degree at all -- no bachelor's degree? Well....I'd have to probably say no. Education is a big thing to me, so how could I find someone attractive who does not value it at all? This is my current answer: I have absolutely no idea at this point in time but I am in no way shape or form going to eliminate someone based solely on their education achivements according to a piece of paper that hangs on the wall. If they spend all of their time interested in certain things that I have no interest in (I'll refrain from listing the specifics for fear of setting off a whole new debate that I will have to explain ), then we won't likely be a good match anyway and education won't have anything whatsoever to do with it. I do still feel exactly the same on this issue, however: ...if they can't love every little part of who I am...too bad. I'm not ever going to settle. I'm perfectly happy being single if it comes to choosing between that and something less than I deserve Egotistical? Possibly. But if you can't be self-centered about your happiness in life, then what good is the search for love anyway? My hopefully-clarified two cents!!!  |
Schoolmarm | Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 05:52 am     Ahhhh, spy! Well written! My brothers (both only have a couple of years of college) are always telling me that I intimidate the he!! out of most guys...as a classical musician AND almost PhD. I am the first one in my family to have attained the PhD (well, after I defend in a couple of months) with the exception that my mom and dad each have a cousin with a PhD who also is a professor. I think my family background helps me relate to all kinds of people no matter what their educational background. Your post reminded me of one of our eligible bachelors in this little town. He runs a small business and is very bright and well-read, although I don't think he finished college. For some strange reason, he always wants to date the young female professors. When he called me up once, he SLAMMED higher education....what, you want a date with me, and you insult both ME and MY JOB? Click...end of story, or so I thought. At "girls night out" I discovered that he was also calling my friend, Amy (and was similarly insulting/crass while still wanting a date) and two others. Guess whose name is at the top of the NEVER date list! I don't have a problem with dating guys who don't have as many degrees as I do, however, it appears that THEY do. Something to do with the male ego, I'm sure. Dannnnggg! I still think that it is more important to have clear lines of communication and trust, and to have common interests and values. I'm still hopeful! |
Maesin | Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 11:30 am     I didn’t think I would contribute to this topic, but here I am, doing it anyway. LOL I am finally getting into my college education. I love it. I am into learning. I take classes that may not have much to do with my major, but I take them just because they sound interesting. Last semester a guy at my work asked me out. I told him if he could work around my schedule, I would go out with him. His suggestion was that I skip school. He didn't understand how important my classes are to me or why I was even going. Needless to say, he didn't get his date. I don't think I would care if the guy were pushing pencils down on the corner lot as long as he made some attempt to keep up with current events and understood my want of education. I live in a town where one can usually make the money without the degree. Many are connected into their jobs or have worked their way from the bottom up. College is something to do here, not something that needs to be done. Of course, right now, I would like to find someone that can put a complete sentence together and not wipe his nose with the back of his hand while doing it, but I digress. Sometimes I think the person with the degree makes it more of an issue than the person without the degree. Notice I said “Sometimes”. JMO. Of course, if you are dating someone that has a higher status of education it could be a good source of motivation. Again JMO. Enough of my opinions for now! I like this thread, so many interesting views!
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Karuuna | Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 11:56 am     Heck, I'm just looking for someone who was never an inanimate object, and is not currently psychotic. How less picky can you get than that? I have found that it is more difficult than I would have thought to find a fella who is not intimated by the idea that the woman he's dating is more financially successful than he is. I thought you guys would kinda like the free ride, but no dice. In theory, guys unanimously agree that it would be no problem, but in practice it often turns out to be more difficult than they anticipated. I only have an undergrad degree, so it's not quite the same phenomenon, but it is similar. From my point of view, I don't give a whit about degrees or type of career, or how much money someone makes, etc. I care whether you know who you are, can act with integrity, know how to laugh and appreciate all life has to offer, and are humble enough to admit your own imperfections and be patient with mine. Um, make that *extremely* patient. But this poem says it much more eloquently than I can -- The Invitation It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing. It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive. It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals, or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain. I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it or fix it. I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can dance with the wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human. It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy. I want to know if you can see beauty, even when it's not pretty, every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence. I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the moon, "Yes!" It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have. I want to know if you can get up, after the night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children. It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back. It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied. I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away. I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like the company you keep in the empty moments. -- Oriah Mountain Dreamer |
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