Church Bus Accident in Dallas
TV ClubHouse: archives: Church Bus Accident in Dallas
Spygirl | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 03:07 pm     Just wanted to ask for thoughts and prayers for this terrible situation. A bus full of youth was traveling from Garland, Texas to here in Ruston, Louisiana for church camp and crashed in Terrell, Texas on I-20. 5 people were pronounced dead at the scene, 4 youth and the adult driver. At least 30 more are injured. The accident scene was horrific on the news.  |
Tess | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 04:05 pm     Yes it was, Spy, and I just caught a glimpse without hearing the story at all. Prayers have already started. |
Sia | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 09:00 pm     Hindsight is 20/20, they say, but I have to ask why the church camp is so far from where the young people lived. They were being transported across a couple of states, apparently by just one bus driver who may have fallen asleep at the wheel. When I was in my 20s I had a long drive from where I lived and worked to go back home to visit my folks and I regularly got sleepy on the trips back and forth. Once a state patrolman woke me up to see if I was okay; I was asleep on the front seat of my car with my cat curled up in my arms. I must have looked dead to him, but it was just the way I went along at that time in my life; I was invincible and nothing was too difficult, too far, too tiring to tolerate. I'd drive until I was literally falling asleep and only then would I pull over for a nap. I drove across the country a couple of times in exactly the same way. Why do people put themselves through this? I realize that a large percentage of accidents happen close to home (what do they say, within a mile?), but is it really necessary to go so far from home for goods/services that must also be available closer to home? |
Spygirl | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 09:37 pm     Sia, I'm not sure where you heard that about the travel, but they were only traveling about 4 hours. That is a reasonble travel for camp, in my experience. I traveled anywhere from 2-4.5 hours for each camp I went to growing up. Plus, this travel was entirely on an interstate, which is typically better for bus travel I don't personally believe we should give our kids the message that they will get hurt if they travel long distances. That unnecessarily perpetuates fear when accidents happen whether one has been in the car 45 seconds (as in the case of my cousin) or 14 hours. |
Sia | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 09:56 pm     Sorry, Spygirl. It was either NBC or CBS news tonight (I listen to both each night) that reported the accident and it sounded to me like the students were being transported a great distance. I don't know the miles involved and haven't tried to look on-line at a map of origin and intended-destination points. Not being terribly familiar with the area where the accident happened, perhaps I shouldn't have tried to post about it. Blame Dan Rather and his all-too-brief stories or blame me, doesn't matter. Why NOT give our kids the messages that they don't have to go so far from home? My seven-year-old first cousin was killed a half-mile from his house by a cement truck in 1976, so I am not arguing that the distance was the issue. The distance IS an issue, though, if the driver can't stay AWAKE for the duration of the trip no matter how short or long the drive. We are spoiled today: if we want to take a vacation, we pack a bag and fly to freakin' Jamaica or some exotic locale when there are beautiful places right here at home that we've never explored. If an American or Canadian tourist were blown to bits on a tour-bus in Jerusalem, you can bet that his family would be saying the next Christmas around the dinner-table, "If only Jack had been content to visit Banff...or Yosemite, maybe he'd still be with us." I wish my cousin had gone with his family instead of going with his neighbor on the day he was killed. |
Spygirl | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 10:32 pm     Sia, it isn't positive that the driver of this bus fell asleep. The cause is not known. He could have had a massive heart attack or seizure. I can respect that you feel we are spoiled because we can take vacations all over the world, but I do not share that view. I believe that no matter whether I am in my own backyard planting flowers or on a plane to Australia, that if it is my time to go, then it is my time to go and my geographic location is irrelevant. I also do not share your view that if we had tour busses blowing up that we would be saying "if only he had been content to stay here". I am not content to live my life in fear because of the "what-if" factor. I could die as easily in a car accident on my way to Yosemite as I could flying to Jamaica. Just my view. Back to topic, here is an article from CNN I found about the accident. Things here are very sad. The mood on the Tech campus is somber. http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/24/bus.crash/index.html GARLAND, Texas (CNN) -- Members of Garland's Metro Church gathered Monday night to offer each other support and solace after four young church members died in a bus accident while on their way to a summer camp in Louisiana. The bus driver, Ernest Carter, was also killed in the crash on Interstate 20, about 30 miles east of Dallas. Thirty-five other people on the bus, including 33 teens and two counselors, were taken to eight hospitals. At least one was so seriously injured that authorities initially thought the crash victim was dead. Teen-agers from the 1,200-member church in suburban Dallas were on their way to a church camp at Louisiana Tech University in Ruston, Louisiana, about 250 miles from Garland. They were part of a youth group at Metro Church that met on Wednesday nights, and it was the second year that teens from the church went to the camp. This Wednesday night, a memorial service for the victims is planned. "Metro is a very close body of believers," said Sean Burns, a church deacon. "You don't just go to church Sunday morning and that's it. These are friends, these are families." Members crowded the church Monday night, bringing food and participating in a blood drive. Texas troopers are trying to find out why the bus, traveling in tandem with another bus, slammed into a concrete pillar supporting a bridge over the interstate at about 9:15 a.m. (10:15 a.m. ET), near the Kaufman-Van Zandt county line. The impact was so strong that it peeled back the metal from the side of the bus. "Witnesses indicate that the vehicle was weaving prior to running into the guard rail. Once it hit the guard rail, it lost all control and hit the concrete pillar," said Trooper Ben Valdez of the Texas Department of Public Safety. DPS Trooper Rob White said there were no skid marks and no indications that the bus driver attempted to stop. He said authorities did not know if the driver fell asleep but were looking at that among other possibilities. In Ruston, leaders of the Student Life Camp, where the Texas teens were headed, decided to continue with the event. "The truth is God was not off his throne when this happened. So what we do is we believe in that," said Roger Davis, a spokesman for the camp. "We have 1,900 other students that are here, so, in a very prayerful and sensitive way, we are going to push forward with camp and do what we can to help out this church." -- CNN Newsource Correspondent Sean Callebs contributed to this report. |
Max | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 10:54 pm     Youth from my church travel from Northwest Oregon to Nevada every summer to serve a week on the Sierra Service Project. They take the church bus and a couple of adults go along to drive and chaperone. I'd hate to tell them that they should stay close to home to be safer. They learn a lot on those annual trips -- about helping others, different cultures (usually it's on a Native American reservation), repairing homes, and about themselves, too. This accident is truly a tragedy. No matter what caused it. Staying home is never a guarantee of safety. |
Sia | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 10:55 pm     Gee, Spy, you take everything I've said and interpret it so literally. I originally said "one driver. . .who MAY HAVE fallen asleep" --which is just what Dan Rather said on CBS tonight. I was remembering pushing myself too hard to drive long distances and commenting that it is a big risk and an unnecessary one, given that facilities like camps are often available closer to home than people realize. That's all. And your predestination reasoning is something I've never understood from ANYONE. It's like you are saying that if your number is up, it's just up and if you avoid getting killed in a bus accident you'll get mashed flat by a piano falling from an eighth-floor window. People expose themselves unnecessarily to risks and can increase their chances of survival by not doing dangerous things. I don't bungee-jump, sky-dive, or travel to the Middle East. Call me boring; I call it staying safe. You won't have to send me flowers in the hospital because I've gotten my toes frozen off while climbing Mt. Everest. Please re-read my post. I didn't say anything about US having tour buses blowing up here at home. I said if a citizen of N. America GOT blown up in Jerusalem his family back in Canada or the States would wish he'd have kept his ass at home instead of wanting to see all the sights overseas before enjoying all the beauties that are right here in our back yards. You take all the fun out of posting. |
Sia | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:00 pm     My original point was heading towards "Like, can't the charter-bus company cough up the extra salary to have a relief driver on the freakin' bus to safeguard something as important as 40 or so children?" I mean, planes have co-pilots and stand-by pilots. Even the Pony Express made the riders travel only so many miles before being relieved--and they even got fresh horses. We entrust our children to people who are overworked, stressed, and overly-tired. I'm entitled to an opinion. |
Spygirl | Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:48 pm     Sia, I am sorry that you took my post as a personal attack and that it took all the fun out of posting in this somber thread. I said that I respected your view but simply disagreed with it. I see that you disagree with my view very strongly and that is fine. I apologize that I came across as disrespecting your opinion. Disrespect was not my intention at all. I do believe that there are things I can do that increase my risks for dying (i.e. climbing Mt. Everest), but deciding between church camp 20 minutes away versus 4 hours away is not something I will stress over. Nor is it anything I will teach my children to stress over. Just my view. Should my co-worker last week have told her friend she couldn't drop her kids off at home 1 mile away from a city parade and maybe she wouldn't have died tragically at 25 in a car accident? Yeah, maybe she wouldn't have. I don't know for sure. This thread was asking for prayers for a very tragic situation that is partly happening in the town where I live. I meant no offense to anyone. |
Sia | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 06:59 am     Again with your literal dissections, Spygirl, really! I retract the word "fun" and substitute "freedom." In any thread, somber or more light-hearted, being obsessively-analyzed simply for making an observation--however tangentially-related--feels like the person (in this case you) is trying to squelch a person and suppress any viewpoint which differs from yours. My final statement was not INTENDED to tie in so directly with the body of the post. It was an aside directed just to you to express my frustration at feeling like I was being told to feel free to express my point of view--as long as it is your view, too. Am I then interpreting you correctly: in a thread which begins, "Please pray for. . ." that nobody should offer any information, opinion, extraneous data not strictly related to prayers and supportive comments to that effect? As for your last post, are you saying that a coworker of yours has a neighbor whose child--or did you mean the coworker herself--was killed by a car near the site of a parade? If so, then, YES, exactly!!! Now you understand me. I keep my kids with me at all times. I can count the occasions when they've been in a car driven by someone other than my husband or myself. They do not spend the night away from home unless it is necessary. They finally DO sleep in their own beds, but when it storms I lay awake all night worried that if a disaster happened (e.g. tornado), come morning I might regret letting them do so. They are always with me. If something happens to my babies, it will happen to me too. I couldn't live without them and would not want to survive an accident that would take them away from me. My children, obviously, are still young and I can limit their exposure to certain dangers. This is becoming increasingly difficult as they get older. I am off-topic; I apologize for having digressed from the original post. Let me pull the thread back to the "proper" direction. Here is how my first post in this thread should have been worded: "I am praying for the families of the dead and injured and for the victims themselves." |
Spygirl | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:02 am     No, the co-worker was killed taking the children of a friend home. The children were fine. |
Spygirl | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:07 am     Again, I apologize for offending you, Sia. |
Sia | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:08 am     God, that's awful. Who do these things happen? A young father of three was killed in my town two nights ago while four-wheeling for "fun." I feel so sad for the woman who died in the situation you describe. Again, it just seems so UNNECESSARY. Same with the ATV accident. The guy was just out having a good time. He, obviously, never thought that the last time he hugged and kissed his wife and kids would be the LAST time, literally. |
Sia | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:12 am     Don't apologize, Spy. I have been bullied for years by people. I am just not going to feel that way at the age I am and not say something about it. If "bullied" seems too strong a word for you, stop a moment before you fire off a strongly-worded post and think, "Okay, that's how Sia feels. Even if I don't think that's 100% accurate for the given situation, it's the word she used and I will just let that go." Thanks. I don't mean to ruffle feathers here, either, and would sooner just go do something constructive before I'd deliberately try to say anything to upset somebody. |
Spygirl | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:15 am     Strongly worded post???? <sigh> We are not reading our posts through the same eyes, so this must end here. Have a nice day, Sia.  |
Sia | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 07:31 am     You, too, Spy. Again, you're being so literal because you're just re-reading the last one(s). You have to take in everything to see it the way I do. Yes, we've both toned down. It didn't start that way, hence my phrase "strongly-worded." Just agree to disagree. Totally aside here, if you're posting from work, you're dividing your attention, in my opinion. Things look different when viewed in different environments and with different distractions. You ever notice how things seem totally different when you finally get HOME again? No place like home. |
Max | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:27 am     Sia, I think Spygirl has been very respectful in her posts. She simply has a different outlook than you do. I see no attacking, no bullying, just a different opinion. She even said she respected your opinion, just disagreed. She stated in her original post several times that it was just her opinion. She did agree to disagree. I can understand that this kind of thing is an emotional trigger. I don't have kids, but if I did, I bet this kind of accident would make me hold them closer than usual for a while. You need to understand that others have opinions that are just as strong as yours. When they express them, and specifically state that they respect your different opinion, AND state again that this is just their view, they are not attacking or bullying you. No one here has tried to change your opinions. Spy has apologized to you several times for any possibility that her post was disrespectful. I suggest that you owe her an equal apology since you've attacked her in each of your subsequent posts for not agreeing with your position and even for posting from work (which is NYOB, IMO). This is, of course, just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. |
Julieboo | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:33 am     I respectfully agree with Max (and Spy). I also enjoy reading (and posting) varying viewpoints. I enjoy the ones that I disagree with just as much as the ones that I agree with. I especially like it when someone expresses what they really feel, even knowing that they might get flamed or in an argument. I don't like it when people agree or disagree with something but are afraid to post what they feel, so they just don't respond or don't post their thoughts. |
Grooch | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 08:58 am     Julieboo, Running off to the Paige and Blake thread... <just kidding, Julie. ;)> |
Bob2112 | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:12 am     I know this is slightly off topic, but
WebTV Users! ...now where can I get bumper stickers made... |
Julieboo | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:12 am     Hi Grooch! I wonder who I will be defending in BB3 that no one else will like! Can't wait! |
Grooch | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:22 am     Julie, promise me that you will let me say who I like first, before you say who you hate.  |
Rissa | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:27 am     I have a 13 year old daughter. {sigh} She is at that age where they start wanting to do things with her friends alone and I am still wanting her attached to my leg. Just a few days ago, her school took her band to a local amusement park (a 45 minute drive mostly on highway) where they got to play a concert at noon but enjoy the park the rest of the day in student-only groups of 3 or 4. You have no idea how badly I wanted to stalk her that day. LOLOL But I did what I always did... make sure the event was well planned, that the students had been made clear of rules, etc and then let her go. If anything had happened I would most DEFINATELY have felt immense guilt and anger at the bus driver, the teachers, etc. But the bottom line is that that's why it's called an accident. I have to repress my own emotions in order to allow her freedom in small increasing doses so that once she is an adult, she is able to handle herself independantly. We have friends with a 16 year old who is NEVER allowed to go out of her own. Once a week she is allowed to go to a friends house for never more than 2 hours. Her parents drive her there, she is not allowed to leave the friend's property and then they pick her up. She has never gone to a movie to friends without mom being there, has never gone to the mall without her parents. My husband and I are convinced that this child will be in major trouble once she is not living at home. She has no ability to make her own decisions, to handle a difficult situation, etc. I am not (purposely) trying to ramble but my point is that my heart breaks for those poor parents that lost children on that bus but I don't think they should double think their decision to send them on an organized event. You take reasonable precautions but cannot foresee an accident even if it was caused by a driving error by their own bus driver. I am a good driver, a great driver but not so cocky that I don't think I could have a lapse myself that could cause an accident or prevent me from avoiding one. |
Max | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:33 am     According to a story I read today ( on BayArea.com), the bus had only been on the road for about an hour. They left the church at 8:00 and the accident occurred just after 9:00. I'm guessing, but I bet the driver had a heart attack or otherwise debilitating medical event. It will probably be several days before anyone knows for sure. It's so sad.  |
Julieboo | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 09:39 am     Hey Grooch, I usually love the ones that most people here "hate"! (Blake/Paige, etc...) And Rissa, I totally agree with you about letting your children "fly solo." Course that is easy for me to say, cuz my little one is only three. But even he will likely have to be in a school bus this fall (yes, the short one) because he will have to have speech therapy and OT thru the school system! See how happy I'll be about that in September... |
Spygirl | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 10:34 am     I don't have Internet at work  |
Seamonkey | Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 01:23 pm     The bus driver in Texas also had diabetes so they wonder if he had some difficulty related to that. |
Gail | Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 09:29 am     From the Fox News Website: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,56929,00.html Wednesday, July 03, 2002 DALLAS — The driver of a bus that crashed on the way to a church youth camp last week had small amounts of drugs in his system, a Kaufman County official said Wednesday. Johnny L. Perry, a justice of the peace in Kaufman County, said trace amounts of Valium and cocaine were detected in the body of Ernest Carter Jr., 51, who died in the June 24 crash. Four students from Metro Church in Garland also died when the charter bus veered off Interstate 20 and hit an overpass near Terrell in Kaufman County. Three dozen more children were injured. A day after the wreck, the Dallas medical examiner's office said preliminary testing showed no drugs or alcohol in Carter's body and an autopsy found no pre-existing medical condition. Crash investigators have ruled out mechanical failure or road conditions as a cause for the crash, saying it likely occurred when the driver became distracted. Carter, a contract employee of Wisconsin-based Discovery Tours, had a valid commercial driver's license — despite a record of traffic violations dating back nearly 17 years. State records show that Carter was convicted of drunken driving in 1985 in California and in 1994 in Dallas County. Carter's license was suspended in California in 1989 and in Texas in 1997. But he regained his Texas license by completing a driver safety course in 1998 and had maintained his privileges since then, according to state records. DPS investigators said they won't know what, if any, role the lastest findings may have played in the accident until additional analysis of blood and tissue samples is conducted, The Dallas Morning News reported in its online edition Wednesday night. |
Llkoolaid | Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 08:23 pm     This story is so sad and so scary. I can relate to it because I am the trip planner for the school band and choir trips in our high school. Every year for the past 6 years, while my son and daughter who are now in university and my daughter who is going into 12, were in the music program I have chaperoned big trips. We do 2 a year, one small{under 500 miles} and a big one, which usually takes 2 days of travel. We take between 75 to 90 students plus teachers and chaperones. It is dangerous, I agree, but I don't think any more dangerous than going on the highway for any distance. I actually think they are safer on the buses than they would be on a busy highway with their parents. This year we went to Ottawa, the nations capital, it was a 16 hour drive. Our buses changed drivers along the way and stopped frequently. It was a wonderful trip for all of us. Some of these kids will never get to travel like this again. They got to do and see things that their parents could never afford to give them. They got to meet other music students across the country and made many new friends.I think it is a wonderful opportunity for them and I am already planning next years trips. Everytime we set out on a trip we realize that we are taking a risk, we do everything possible to make sure everyone is safe and then we go and have fun. I understand Sia not wanting to let her kids go without her, that is one of the reasons I am so involved in the music program, I am able to have some control over where they go and what they do. I don't like when they sleep over at someone's house but I let them because I think they have to spead their wings and grow. I was one of those kids whose mom wouldn't let out of her sight. I didn't get to go to school dances until grade 12, when all my friends went by grade 8. I wasn't allowed to sleep over at friends and I wasn't allowed out after dark. Guess what I learned from that. I learned how to sneak out my bedroom window after they were asleep and go partying all night. When I got away from home I went a little crazy for a while because I couldn't handle the freedom. I am really lucky to be alive after some of the stunts I pulled. Anyway, this is not what this thread was intended for so I just end by saying my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the people on that bus. |
Christina | Friday, July 05, 2002 - 03:37 am     Hey, can someone start a new thread?? I have a 13 year old boy. Need some advive on letting him spread his wings. |
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