Archive through May 23, 2002
The ClubHouse: Archives: No Children:
Archive through May 23, 2002
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:53 pm     Before I go home, I will post to this. As a guy, the views a woman has about wanting kids are something I respect either way. I know a lot of guys who don't want to marry a woman with young kids, as they don't want to go through the extra work again. So, more likely than not, they would be more attracted to a woman who doesn't want kids. (at least guys my age). Although there are plenty of us that can work with either situation. For me, the most important thing is for a woman to be honest about what she wants--in terms of kids and everything else. When our kids were really small, I was in a variety of situations. When our first was born, I was in the Army and we were together. I did as much diaper changing as she did, it seemed like. I got that duty after getting home from work. She dd it while I wa at work. Same for bathing, and other tasks. Later, I worked and went to school. By that time we had three, and I did all the tasks when home. I played with them, and went for walks with them as much as I could while at home. Weekends was just work, and I didn't do any homework till they were all asleep. Later on in their lives, I took them to their sports practices on the weekends, and went to all games. About that time the wife and I split, and I still did all the weekend stuff, and saw they during the week too. By that time I had a day job and lived in the same area. The ex thought it a good idea to tell them I was worthless, except for my money--that was always welcome. I moved about 50 miles away because I changed jobs, and had them over every weekend--or asked them, and let them choose actually. As they got older, there were more times they didn't want to come over for the weekend. The youngest wanted to come over the most though, even as a pre-teen. When I moved to Washington, I asked them over every other weekend. The ex and I met in about the middle on Friday after work, and I'd take them back Sunday evening. The youngest wanted to live with me, and when 13, his mother said yes. He stayed with me till he turned 18. The others (2 years older and 3 years older) came over less frequently as they hit high school age. But I asked until they turned 18, as they went out on their own as well. Their mom's words had a lasting impression on them, unfortunately. Yet my youngest has a much different view of me than the other two. I know I'm the same person. I didn't "stray". I worked and went to school at te same time. That was the single roughest thing on the family. At the time when I started down that path, I had buy in from the wife. She changed her mind after about 2 years. I took 3 years off of school after my junior year so I could save up some money, as we just squeaked by. I went my last year, then graduated. As I said, it was really tough on us. Bottom line, as a male in his 40's, I would consider a relationship with a woman who had kids (young or old) and a woman who did not have kids. Neither are freaks. Both are to be respected for saying what they want out of life, IMHO. |
Riviere | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:02 am     My two cents (you're already sorry I'm sure) is I never wanted any kids!!! But I have 2 sons and now a grandmother, that's life.. Kids today, it will never be the same remotely for them because things change toooo fast.. I applaud folks for not suffering with kids as I did, from the two C sections to the money wasted and freedoms and job opportunities lost along the way.. My maternal instinct runs low, as my Mom's and her family, I just did the best I could and got my tubes tied firts chance when I was over 21... |
Tess | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:44 am     Well, I will admit I've been one of the people avoiding this topic because of the animosity I was feeling oozing from posts on both sides of this issue. However, a couple of people have asked specific questions pertaining to older moms, dads and children, bonding, meddling to name a few, so here goes! I am 48 years old. My only child came to us from Korea in 1997 at the age of 10-1/2 months. In a few hours she will graduate from preschool. Mom and Dad will be there bursting with pride as will her Godmother and her aunt, who just an hour ago arrived from Chicago as a surprise. I had 2 sisters. They both married very young (19 and 20) but took very different paths. My older sister was pregnant at 20 and divorced at 21. When my niece was 4, my sister remarried and they all became a family for 35 years until my sister's recent death. My brother in law WAS the true father to my niece and still is. My younger sister's first marriage broke up in large part due to her decision that she absolutely did not want children. Her former husband has a new wife with 4 children and all parties are very happy and good friends. I asked my sister once, and only once, about 2 years into her marriage if she thought she would ever have children and she said no. I never asked her again. I've never once thought any less or more of her because she wanted to pursue a career instead and had no interest in having children. In my mind and in my heart, it was HER decision to make and it was up to me to accept it unconditionally because even as close as we are, I have no right to expect her to conform to a lifestyle which I wanted for myself but she felt was not the right one for her. My mom told me before I started college that they were not going to help with my tuition because I was "just going to get married and have babies." My parents weren't about to waste money on me. Turned out I didn't need their help and it would be 20 years before I married. Back in 1984 I decided to pursue foreign adoption as a single parent. That adoption did not take place due to my health issues. So, I continued to do what I had been doing for years which was to be surrogate aunt to children of several friends. Through all my single years, I never had people prodding me to get married. I never had people saying I should do something so I could have children of my own. I was lucky. I'm aware of that. Instead of a child of my own I had 40 or 50 of "my kids". Fast forward to 1992 when I fell in love and got married. I had explained to my DH before marriage that at age 38 and with my health I wasn't sure that I could give birth and he declared that he was completely open to adoption. Once we were married, he changed his mind. Now comes the part where the ugliness started. I quickly became pregnant after marriage and then after a time, I miscarried. For the next 3 years, I endured endless nagging from my mother-in-law to provide her with a grandchild at the same time I had another miscarriage and then another. I need to interject that at that time she already had 12 grandchildren. Yes, there were also myriad fertility procedures. Yes, I spent 3 years grieving for the 3 children I had lost, for the fact that my DH decided he could not love an adopted child and for the loss of a formerly good relationship with my mother in law. She wasn't the only one who asked me day after day if I was pregnant, why wasn't I pregnant, when was I going to be pregnant and on and on.......all were hurtful sometimes, I thought, even hateful. I had been told by both my ob/gyn and my pulmonary doctors that I most likely not survive a full term birth. My ob/gyn never intended to let me go full term but I never got far enough along to have options. One day, my DH saw a dad with his little girl from China and it hit him right between the eyes that he COULD do that, too. We started adoption proceedings after much more discussion. After being told I would never get pregnant again, I did. We were in the middle of adopting and I knew in my heart this baby would never live so I kept my secret until I miscarried again. Ironically, my mother in law wrote a letter giving her "permission" for us to adopt. I hope I am never as angry again as I was when I read that letter. Fastforward again to August 1997 when went to the airport to pick up our precious daughter. My DH, who had once been terrified that he wouldn't bond with a child not biologically his, loves his child more than life. They are an inseperable team. He is the most involved dad I know with the exception of the 2 stay-at-home dads we know. So at age 43, I held my daughter for the first time. As and older parent, would I do it again? Absolutely, no hesitation. As a parent with serious health problems would I do it over again---yes! As an adoptive parent, would I? You bet I would. Do I think that everyone should be a parent? No way. My own parents should never have been parents. My sisters and I all took different paths to reach the same goal of having a happy, full-filling life. Older sis was a working mom while younger sis will never be a mom. I'm a stay at home mom. Who's right? We all are because we made the decisions which were right for US. We didn't let anyone else make our decisions for us. Sorry for the long post. It's going on 4am. |
Twiggyish | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:22 am     ((Tess)) Check your email. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:28 am     >>In the case of employment inequities, I think the fault lies with the employers, not so much the employees.<< (From Karuuna) That is absolutely right. Don't blame the wrong party! If you have to pick up slack, then talk to your boss about it. And don't blame anyone else. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:43 am     >>I applaud folks for not suffering with kids as I did, from the two C sections to the money wasted and freedoms and job opportunities lost along the way.. << That is just sad. It is sad that you feel you wasted money and lost opportunities. I am the opposite. I love spending money on my son. I love buying diapers. (Weird--I know!) I love buying him cute outfits. I love when I can find the exact right color socks to match an outfit of his. I love hitting garage sales to buy him fun outside toys. I currently work full time (cuz as some of you may know, my dh is unemployed) and I would give my eye-teeth to stay at home full time with him. AND my dh is a wonderful stay at home daddy! My son brings me so much joy. He is a lot of work. He has apraxia and has some regulatory/sensory issues which makes him a little more challenging than your typical 2 or 3 year old, but I still love being his mom. Yes, I miss my extra sleep. And sometimes I do lose my patience. It is not always "a picnic". He has plenty of temper tantrums and he is very non-compliant at times. There are peanut butter stains on our good furniture. He makes me miss many of my favorite TV shows. He doesn't let me talk on the phone much or email or surf the net. He makes going to the grocery store a "challenge". He makes me sweat a lot. But I thank God every day for him. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:49 am     >>I know an awful lot of ladies out there who do all of the childrearing. The diapers, the feedings, the medical appointments, the homework, etc....and the men get off on a free pass. Sit there enjoying their ball games and tinkering with their latest electronic gadgets. If the mothers behaved that way they would be charged for child endangerment<< (from Gadzooks) I'm sure there are some dads like that. But let's not stereotype all dads that way. My dh, before we got married, told me he for sure didn't want to bring any children into this world. I almost broke up with him then. Obviously we do now have a son. And my dh could not love him any more than he does. He loves to spend time with him. He does tons of diapering, bathing, feeding, etc. He does not have a "free pass". |
Twiggyish | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 08:15 am     Children raised by parents who resent them, will grow up knowing this fact. Talk about dysfunction!! A child needs to be raised by parents who welcome and love them. It is for this reason, I think those who don't want them, shouldn't have them. |
Yuhuru | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:00 am     DO YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN ON EARTH WHO HAVE NO CHOICE REGARDING WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR BODIES !!!!!!! There are preteens who have their clitoris mutilated; there are womens children who are stripped from their arms and harmed; there are women whose vagina's have been sewn up, and worse. Instead of embracing the blessing of choice, we're arguing about it and being petty and INTENTIONALLY hurtful to one another in this thread. |
Twiggyish | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:10 am     Yes, I know there are women who have no choice. But, this thread is about those who do have a choice. The atrocities listed are horrible. We can't forget our sisters in the world, who suffer because they are women. I for one support any woman to choose. That's why I think those who don't want them, shouldn't have them, because children know when they aren't wanted. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:19 am     I applaud women who chose to have children because they want and will love them. It is the hardest job in the world. But also very rewarding. I also applaud those women who chose not to have children because they don't want them. And they are smart enough to take precautions to make sure they don't have them. |
Imbewitched | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:38 am     All my life I never had a desire to have children. I was uncomfortable around them and they always seemed to cry if I tried to hold them. At family gatherings my female cousins would rush to gather up the babies of the family while I was out playing ball with the guys. This feeling didn't change as I got older. I married and divorced without getting pregnant (not intentionally - just never happened) and was thankful for it. I couldn't imagine raising a child on my own. At the age of 36 I had an emergency hystorectomy. The Drs. weren't sure if it would be a complete hystorectory or not because they weren't sure what they would find once they got in there. It didn't matter to me. I signed the consent to have a full hyst. no matter what they found because I felt since I wasn't going to use it - why did I need it. So that was that. Now at the age of 42 (no one is more surprise about this than I am) that maternal desire reared it's head. I am still single and don't forsee that changing and still can't imagine raising a child on my own but there are times that I have the fleeting thought of what if. Even commercials can be emotional. No one that knows me would have ever thought this possible. Sometimes I think it is because the option is no longer there for me to have a child. Sometimes I think maybe if I could maybe I would. But most of the time I am content with my choices. Sorry for the rambling. I just have never put these thoughts into words. Thanks for the open mike. |
Buttercup | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:14 pm     I certainly hope people aren't being intentionally hurtful towards one another in here. That would defeat the purpose of this discussion. The fact that other people’s opinions might hurt some people is different as that is a normal fact of life. It is my belief that another person's opposite opinion ought to be accepted as just that: a different opinion. Whether you take it personally is up to you, and it is your responsibility how you deal with it. That being said, I have some thoughts on the issue in itself. I have always loved children. I babysat while growing up, and was a full-time nanny before and during the first couple of years of getting my college degree. I also have a couple of Godchildren whom I love dearly. I always thought I wanted to have my own children. However, after I graduated and was in the midst of my first career I became uncertain of what I wanted. Then one day I shocked myself with the thought that I really didn't want to have children. I loved them dearly but I also knew the work and sacrifice it would take to have them and give them a life they deserved. I realized at the time that I was too selfish to give them what they deserved. Well, a few years have gone by and it seems my mind has changed again I no longer live the high life acquiring thousands of frequent flyer miles, attending intense business meetings and eating fancy dinners with clients. I guess one could say that my priorities have changed. However, this does not mean that I condemn those who live the life I used to live. Instead I am grateful that I understand the life of a career woman. It can be very satisfying! I am in my (early ) thirties and back in school pursuing higher education and a new profession. I hope to get married some day and I also now hope to have children--either my own biological children or by adoption. I have lots of love to give and from what I have learned from life so far, sharing the same blood and genes has nothing to do with how much you can care for another human being. Though, as we all know, nothing in life is certain. I may not get married; I may not have children. Whatever happens should not be judged by anyone. It is up to me to fulfill my life in the way that is best for me. I also believe that this is the right of all women out there who have a choice, and I support their decision whatever it may be. |
Car54 | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:33 pm     You know, motherhood seems to bring out a lot of strong emotions in us. I just came back and read a couple of replies to a post I made, and would like to respond. Karuuna, it sounds like you run a wonderful business and I hope your employees appreciate you. That said, let me respond by saying that I have worked in retail in businesses that employ mostly women for almost 20 years. I have been in senior management postions for most of that time in many areas. When I say that when an employee takes leave to have a child her co-workers do assume extra responsibility I speak with a significant amount of experience. The circumstances I describe are often people in highly skilled positions which usually cannot be filled with "temp" help. A buyer for a chain of 15 retail stores cannot be replaced by part time temporary help. That sort of work takes years of training and experience. When that person makes a life choice to have a child and be gone, for the business to go on their supervisor, their co-workers, must fill in. You would not be able to hire and train someone to do that level of work in three months, and if you could, that sort of person usually does not take temporary work. If you are lucky, you have someone in a lower level position who may be able to grow and step up, but when the original person returns, what do you do with that person who filled in? As a manager, I have usually been the one to try to cover and fill, since I have to know everyone's job. Usually this means delegating work differently, re-arranging tasks, changing EVERYONE's routines to make sure the business continues. I am not talking about big industry, I am talking about small privately owned businesses- we do not keep a stock of highly skilled people around in case some one is out. We run on very tight payrolls and budgets. If it is a cashier or a warehouse worker, I can usually find extra short term help, but when key staff choose to be gone, the business has to stretch to accomodate them. There ARE accomodations made daily by those of us who do not have a family. I have been making them for 25 years in my working career. Never once have I had a returning person come back and thank anyone for covering, for keeping things going, or ever had that effort recognized. It just seems to be expected. I don't want to turn this into a different topic, but to recognize that while someone makes a life choice to be a parent, and to have a working life, other people besides them have to make accomodations too so that they can fulfull their obligations. I am done now. |
Imbewitched | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:01 pm     Car - I agree. I too have to cover for the moms when they are out with their children. I work in an office with 4 other women. All have children (except myself). Our company has always been very fair in regards to the ladies needing to be off for field trips, teacher conferences, teacher work days, child sick days and etc. For the most part these times are given gratus (not coming off their vacation time) which is very generous on the part of my employer. The thing that sticks in my craw is that I feel if the company is going to give this time to the mothers, there should be equal time-off given to myself. I know if this bothers me that badly I should address it to the boss but I really don't want them to have any reason to change their policy towards the mothers. It just irks me that they don't realize how bias this policy is towards non-parents. |
Car54 | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:24 pm     Imbewitched, I am not resentful at all of the need to fill in, it would just be nice to have it recognized, and you are right, sometimes it is not fair or compensated. When I took leave when my mother was dying, I used 2 years of accrued vacation and my sick time, but my employer DID pay me for the rest of the time I took off. During the months she was dying, I drove back and forth (4 hrs one way) to our office weekly to check in. (Invariably a crisis happened whenever I went home for a day). I had work fed-exed to me and did it at the hospital and kept things going for 3 months. I am single and have no second income so I was very worried that my job would be there when I returned. My employers were extremely considerate and caring, but I knew they still needed product ordered to run their business and they needed the orders in the system and they needed the warehouse to run, and I did all of those things by myself, so I kept things going AND helped my mother die. I never forgot or forgot to express how grateful I was to the bosses and to my staff, who pitched in and filled in and kept things going. I will never forget what those women gave me! At my current job, the owner considers staff having babies part of the cost of doing business and pays mothers during their leave. So they get 3 months off with pay to have their baby. I work 50 weeks a year, with no such option. Not angry, just how it is for me. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:37 pm     >>The thing that sticks in my craw is that I feel if the company is going to give this time to the mothers, there should be equal time-off given to myself.<< ABSOLUTELY! But this is another example of it being the company's fault/responsibility and not the employee/mother. And Car, was this before 1993? Because that is when the FLMA went into effect (courtesy of Bill Clinton...) You can now take up to 12 weeks (unpaid of course) off to care for sick parents. And btw, I don't know the % of companies that have paid maternity leave, but not all companies do. I know mine does not. |
Imbewitched | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:48 pm     <<ABSOLUTELY! But this is another example of it being the company's fault/responsibility and not the employee/mother.>> Julie - I totally agree. I have never held it against the other ladies. Heck, if I had children I would definately take advantage of that benefit. We all help each other whenever it is needed. In a perfect world the employer would make all things equal. |
Car54 | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:07 pm     Julie, I was eligible for 3 months of course, but being self supporting, could not afford to take 3 months unpaid time. I used my vacation and sick time to cover most of it, and my employers were generous to continue to pay me when my mother's illness continued. Even tho I was at my mother's, I still had rent, bills, etc at my home that I was responsible for as well as the expenses of my mother's illness and care. Again, this is just part of working life, but there should be some recognition that when a person makes the choice to be a parent (not just a mom...I just had a working dad leave work early to cover a child-care issue today!), others contribute to the cost of that decision. If you are a mom, and your needs are accomodated, something else has to give to take care of the work. It is usually the people who don't have kids, who don't take leave, who pick up and stretch and fill in. It is a fact of OUR working lives. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:16 pm     Yes it a fact. Don't know a good solution. I do think if a company gives time off to new moms or dads, they should do it for the singles as well. |
Mssilhouette | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 05:25 pm     Well there's been some good post here I find it all very interesting and the viewpoints varied. I know i'm enjoying the different posts. <<< YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN ON EARTH WHO HAVE NO CHOICE REGARDING WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR BODIES !!!!!!! Instead of embracing the blessing of choice, we're arguing about it and being petty and INTENTIONALLY hurtful to one another in this thread. >>>>> I really didn't see anyone aruging about having a choice or anyone really being petty. As for "intentionally hurtful" I don't see that going on either. I see some strong opinions and people are easing into this thread, maybe thinking they're smelling smoke but there isn't a flame war going on and no one is beratting anyone. There are just people who have made a decision to not have children, those who aren't sure and some who have late or early. Some posts are about a few considerations that those with children may not think or know about. All in all, this thread seems pretty calm and intelligent. I for one, know it's going to stay that way because most TVCH'ers are pretty darn reasonable and tolerant  |
Sia | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 06:42 pm     Egad, Gadzooks!! Somebody really did a number on you, and I am deeply sorry for the pain and mishandling you have suffered. "It is my belief that having children is a selfish act. It is simply a way to clone yourself and create your own personal slave/punching bag." Far from it, Gadzooks, at least in my case. The fact that I'm a mother and that I have to constantly sacrifice my needs and desires in order to satisfy the needs and desires of my children forces me to be UNselfish. My kids are little and they depend on me to meet their needs; what kind of person would I be if I let them go hungry, dirty, cold, unclothed, etc.? The first thing I think about when I wake up each morning--after pushing a 17-year-old cat out of my face so I can breathe freely--is "How many minutes of peace and quiet will I get this morning before the kids wake up?" On a school day, I often get up before my alarm clock sounds, shower, fix my own breakfast and coffee, and sit and read--or do housework QUIETLY) until the little beasties stir. On days when we don't have to go anywhere, when I'd love nothing better than to roll over and snuggle my cat for another hour, they're up at the butt-crack of dawn, in my face with their bright, crusty eyes and morning-breath, begging for food. They could be poodles at this point, but they're my children, flesh of my flesh and all that, so I get out of bed and attend to their needs. I have smart, really interesting kids, and it takes an interested, commmitted parent to raise good kids who will be responsible adults some day. As for cloning myself, Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ, Gadzooks, I wouldn't do that even if the technology existed. I'd get a model child if I were cloned, believe me. What I GOT was two darling children who have the WORST of my traits AND the WORST of my husband's traits. I wouldn't have ordered that had I had a choice. My kids themselves draw the line when I encroach too far into the "personal slave" territory. When the house gets just out of control with things that need to be put away and I am tired of being the only person on the team--meaning the only person who cooks, cleans, does laundry, puts things away, organizes, etc.--I chase them around the house with a yardstick for about a half-hour, pointing out things that they need to put away. They are used to this behavior, as this is how I took charge of the housekeeping following major abdominal surgery last summer. It takes at least four reminders per offending item before it actually gets put away, and often it isn't even put in the place I'd indicated, so I end up putting things away myself. So why do I bother with the ritual of making the kids put things away in the first place? Because it is my job to try to teach them to take care of a household so that they will be properly equipped when they go out into the big world on their own. Eventually they learn these lessons; after all, I finally learned to wash dishes and do laundry. If you'd seen me as a teenager, you'd have thought I'd been raised in the jungle alongside Tarzan. Oh, and when my kids have been bossed around long enough with busy-work chores, they go off and do other things. They come back later for more "helping." The kids unload the dishwasher and help put away laundry as regular chores, and they make their own beds, although they both still need help doing a neat job of bed-making. Punching bag? No, that's not the purpose my kids serve. They frustrate and anger me, but I don't beat them up. I threaten a lot, but I don't actually beat them. They get spankings when they really need it, but I try to reason with them, and I think they're doing all right. My older one needs to develop a longer fuse, but I was shorter-tempered when he was younger, so I accept that as my fault. We're working on it. They are the most precious children in the world, and I don't WANT to hurt them. I don't want anything to hurt them, either. I am just paralyzed with fear at the thought that some day I won't be with them when they are out in the world and that they might be hurt. I want to be with them every minute and don't trust anyone to take them away from home. My son was two years old before someone other than my husband or myself drove with him in a car; I had to have my mother take my son to his library class because I was in the hospital having his sister. I am that protective of my children. You also said, "In the first few years it's all about goo goo gaa gaa stuff and isn't she/he precious, but then it turns to "I can't wait until he/she turns 18 and I can have my life back". Basically, parents want to re-live their youth through their children and form them into the people that they wanted to become. So, as a child you have the pressure to please your parents, teachers, friends, etc....and in the end you have to change your parents' diapers. Isn't it great? I've seen mom's and dad's that have done everything for their kids thinking that they wouldn't be alone in their old age, but the kids turned out ungrateful and stuck them in retirement homes so they wouldn't disturb their lifestyle. So, I see it as a lose-lose situation. Either way....you end up dying alone...so why bother having kids?" Geez, where do I start here? Well, I'll just jump in: When both my kids were still in diapers, I'll admit to feelings of frustration at their level of need, but as they've gotten older, I'VE changed and adapted. I still have standards of behavior and certain expectations, but I realize that they can't fulfill 100% of what I want from them every day in every situation. When my kids act up when I'm on the phone, at a retail store, or in a restaurant, I make my apologies and usually find that the most understanding and forgiving people are women who are mothers themselves. Invariably they say, "I remember those days. It's not easy with young kids." I used to think that I "wanted my life back," but I now know that I'm GETTING my life back. It's a gradual process, and I'm learning to adapt as I'm teaching my kids how to fit into my life and routine. Now that they can walk and talk and express their needs, I don't feel like such a slave to their whims and I am trying to teach them to be patient and tolerant. You want to talk about a trying situation? How about being out in public (store or library, etc.) needing to PEE desperately, but you have a breast-fed infant in your arms who is hungry and probably needs a diaper changed at the same time that you need to take care of yourself? I am not wealthy and I don't have a nanny; I have never even had a paid babysitter. When I can't take my mother with me on a doctor-visit, I have just had to deal with the kids on my own. This takes some doing. As for living vicariously through my children, that is probably true, at least in part. I hope they will have happier school experiences than I did, and I think my background in education and my involvement in their schools will help to ensure that this comes to pass. I don't, however, believe that I can mold them into what I wanted to become. I will never know what I COULD have become because my childhood was stolen from me. This is part of what makes me so fiercely protective of my babies. I didn't have kids to please my parents, peers, teachers, or anyone else--nor have I succumbed to peer pressure for any other reason. My husband and I were middle-aged and never married before we got together. I thought I had a handle on the birth control situation, but I was mistaken; six months after we got married, I got pregnant! The recreation of human life is such a miracle that I believe that it is one proof that God exists. He simply has to be involved in the development of babies. I am thankful that I got to be a Mommy. When I was a lot younger, I put up a good front, telling everyone I didn't want kids. I was just rabidly anti-kids--but in my case that was because I thought I'd never have any of my own. I didn't think I'd ever get married, and I didn't grow up in a time or family that would have approved of or supported single-motherhood--although my family was teriffic when I was a single foster-parent. I treasure my parents and my remaining grandmother and I will gladly and cheerfully change their diapers should the need arise. I have the necessary training for this, and would feel that taking care of my parents would only repay in the smallest way part of the debt I owe to them for having given me life, for having raised me and for having loved me for all these years. I am very fortunate to have both my parents still, and I am extremely lucky to still have a grandmother. Every year I call her on Mother's Day to thank her for having my Dad--not because I think it was so fabulous that I was born, because I'm not so conceited as to think I'm the most fascinating, beautiful person on earth--but because of the fact that my existence allowed me to experience the greatest joy I have ever known in my life on earth: being a mother--TWICE!! As for a nursing home, I pray it wouldn't come to that; I would move my parents in with me before I'd put them into an institution, unless there were medical conditions with which I am not qualified to deal. I don't think we die alone. Anyone who has spent any time at all on the planet has touched the life of at least ONE other person. If at the moment of your death you're not surrounded by your loved ones, that's sad, but not critical to the process of dying. Even if there is no other human being in the room at the moment of death I don't think you die alone; the breath of life goes back to God, who gave it--so He is there with you. That's just a personal theological difference between us, I guess. I hold onto beliefs like this in order to keep going. If I thought there was just no reason for my being here, that no one loved or ever would love me, and that no one would give a dead rat's @ss if I died, I would just go slit my freakin' wrists right now!!! Upon re-reading your original post, I just felt the need to express myself. Thanks for the forum, people. It feels good to let fly! "Also, I'm so sick of hearing women gushing about their kids all day long. It is the most tiresome conversation in the world. WHO CARES!!! What happened to talking about travel, world events, and entertainment. I could care less that little suzie sneezed today. GAWD!!! In addition, I'm fed up with having to take up the slack at work for all these women that need time off for their sick kids or maternity leaves. Or, how about the boss asking me to work the holiday shifts cause I don't have a family. Hello!!! I have a life too and I don't appreciate being dismissed when I ask for time off for myself. Don't get me wrong. I believe there are some people truly meant to be parents out there. However, I am petrified of the slacker generation out there today. What kind of parenting did they get? NOT GOOD. O.K. I'm done with my rant....but heck it's about time we get to voice our opinion." Well, I will wrap up here shortly. First, I will gush at every possible opportunity about my little darlings, because I love them and it generally pleases people to hear funny stories of things my kids do and say. As for the work issues, those have been addressed (and covered very well) by women who are still in the work-force; I've been a stay-at-home mom for a while now and will leave those issues to those who posted earlier. I have to agree with you, Gadzooks; I, too, am petrified by the "slacker-generation." I hate that the media are kowtowing to an ignorant, semi-literate, selfish pack of media-whores who don't make parenting the important priority it should be (and this is a MINORITY among the younger generation; not everyone under age 25 is in this category). As you say, some people shouldn't be parents, but many of them are anyway, and they don't do a very good job of it; I've seen the results in our public schools, and it frightens me. Well, my kids are hungry AGAIN, so I need to get to the kitchen and take care of them. |
Angelnikki | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 06:44 pm     all of the women in my office have kids. in fact, i am one of the only ones that only has one child. all of the others have 2,3,4 even 6 children and we all help each other out with babysitting and clothes(hand me downs), and advice. there is one girl who doesnt have children but does not feel left out because she loves kids and loves to hear about our kids i feel blessed to have this sort of environment in the workplace. (((tess)))) |
Twiggyish | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:24 pm     This thread is about a major life choice. It's going to have very passionate responses. We all bring our own opinions based on our personal experiences. For some women, it is heartbreaking and painfully emotional to discuss. Gadzooks, I respect your honesty. I know it wasn't easy to post as you did. You can see it touched a nerve in here. But, sometimes honesty isn't about pretty words. I don't agree with you, but then, you may not agree with me, either. Many of you had good points about discrimination and the workplace regarding women without children. I still think there are many reforms needed. |
Julieboo | Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:26 pm     Sia That post was great. You sound like a wonderful mom and a wonderful daughter too. |
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