Archive through May 27, 2002
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The ClubHouse: Archives: No Children: Archive through May 27, 2002

Sia

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks, Julieboo. I think it was easier to be a good parent in my grandmother's day, but I try to follow her example as much as possible. My kids seem to like me, LOL! I wish I were as energetic now as I was about 15 years ago; I was a better, more helpful daughter and granddaughter before health concerns slowed me down.

Abbynormal

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 08:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
All I ever wanted to be as far back as I can remember was a mom. So I can understand for some, that the feelings would be reversed. Seems natural. I have been a mother my whole adult life. Had my first at 21, so have been a young mom and now at 42 have a 10 yr old, so am experienced in the "older" mom department also. I assume we are talking about older-mom, younger-kids. (after all, once a mom, always a mom, and we all get older) Once the older 2 started school I got a really good job and was quite amazed that I could handle it. When the 3rd came along I quit to stay with him, but once he started school, I took any crappy job I could so I wouldn't feel bad about quitting during the summer. Now, I am beginning to worry about what I will do with myself when he's out on his own. I have spent my whole life raising kids, and while that was my career and the only one I wanted, I am kind of pre-freaking out about the future. I have always thought of their future and not my own. I admire a woman that gets her act together for her future, whether she decides to stay childless or goes on to have children. Don't get me wrong, we love our children, but they have always been aware that we the parents come first with each other. That may sound selfish to some, but children will and can eat you alive if you let them. I don't regret a moment in my life, I am living my dream. Sometimes I just wish I had waited a little longer, and did something for myself first.

Nightcrawler

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ok someone wanted to hear from the dads so here I go

my spelling sucks as you will see. so bear with me I only got a 94 on the I/Q test LOL

I must admit I would not have marred a woman that did not want kids ONLY becase I did want kids.

I allso think it's up to the person if they want kids or not.and no one else. its fine ether way.

for me I wanted kids and could not live with out them!!

as for dads not helping. there are also mom that don't do a thing for there kid's and leave the dad to do it all. as you will see as you read on.

this got longer then I thought it would get. I gess I had alot to get it off my chest. I hope I don't make any one mad?

I have 2 kids 11yr (little crawler) and 9mo (wiggals) both boys, differant moms most of you know that bookworm and I are huby and wife. if not now you do. we have a boy that is 9mo old. she works monday - friday 7-3. my work is not the same I work every other weekend so I get days off in the week. and on those days I stay home with wiggals and love it. I get off work befor my wife and pick him up from daycare and just love the look I get when he sees me there to get him:)

on my days off when are boy naps. I clean the house and make bottols and do lundery and so on... I think I do just as much as my wife does or at least I hope I do? and on my weekends off she lets me go have fun with my older son and the guys thats when I get to paintball. and when I get home I take over so she can go do her things or just go take a nap.

she is a GREAT MOM and I love her and are baby very much!!!!!!

ok now my oler sons mom. who was and still is a mean to me and not good at all with are son B**CH!!!

( I WANT TOO SAY AGAIN THAT BOOKWORM IS NOT THE MOTHER TO MY OLDEST SON!!!)

with L.C. we were not as safe as we should have been she was 18 and I was 19 when we had him. from the start she did little with him when I got home from work her mom was taking care of him and did all day and I did it all night.I tryed to work it out with her and do the right thing and get marred.

BUT she kept sleeping around and it was not going to work so we split.I have allways wanted my son to come live with me. but his mom made shur that would not happen. she moved in with her new man at the time. and we went and sighed some papers to when I could see are son.I was young and DUM and did not read the papers very well. what I sighed was giving her parents gardingship(spelling?) of my son. so she went and left him behind and moved in with her new man.leaving her son behind.

I even had to fight her to get my name on the brith papers. she wouldn't say I was the dad untill she found out she couldn't get child suport with out it???

as time went by and I talked with her parents when I would go get him and pick him up they got to see I was not the S.O.B she made me out to be.

she still had very little to do with him. when she did come to ball games. all she would do is run him down. and tell him I can see your dad helped you by the way you play so bad!! WELL AT LEAST I WAS THERE FOR HIM!!!!!

things are better now. I have allways and still do pick him up from school when I can and he comes over and I go out when I can we still have evry other week end and day in the week together.I NEVER work on the weekend that he is over. I go to all his school suff and games.

so I gess what I'm tryong to show is there are some good and bad dads out there and some good and bad moms out there to.
I hope the spelling was not to bad???:)
Thanks for leting me vent I do feel better now!!!!

Buttercup

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
NC, that was a great post! Thanks for sharing and giving your perspective. You sound like a wonderful dad and husband :)

Buttercup

Nightcrawler

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
sorry I did not mean to post this twice. I was makeing some change to it and posted it twice. I tried to get rid of the frist one but it wouldn't let me if anyone knows how to do that please get rid of my frist post
thanks and sorry
nightcrawler

*done*
Mod(14)

Nightcrawler

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
thanks, buttercup

Theowl

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My heart goes out to you NC. When I was reading about your ex, I thought when did my hubby get on here!! He went through almost the same things you did, and I know how much you must hurt. I'm so glad you have such a wonderful wife and life now. You deserve it!!! You sound like a great dad!!

Gadzooks

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Phew!!!! All of the above posts have been very thought provoking. Sia, my hat is off to you. I greatly appreciated your point of view.

I must admit that my original posting was harsh, but these feelings have been stirring in me for many years and it was an opportunity to be blunt. It is good to see that there are some very loving parents out there. Hopefully, your children will grow up to be good and upstanding citizens.

My major complaint concerns the inequalities that "child free" people face, especially at the workplace. I work with 12 women. I'm the only childless one. Each one has been out for at least two maternity leaves. In Canada, that is 6 months to 1 year. So, I've been replacing people forever. As Car54 said...."Never once have I had a returning person come back and thank anyone for covering, for keeping things going, or ever had that effort recognized. It just seems to be expected." I totally know what that feels like and it sucks. When I take on the extra load...I'm not offered extra compensation. When I ask for some personal time off it becomes the biggest drama in the office. I always get arguments like...."oh, do you really need the afternoon off....I'm already missing a couple of employees because they have sick kids at home"...so now that becomes my problem. My life is always NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

If employers don't want to hire replacements, then they should give us some extras like 1 day off for every month of replacement plus a hefty pay raise during that period. It would make it easier to swallow all the dirty work. While I'm at it the government should give us some tax breaks too. All those child deductions add up....and I want my share too! I will never take a maternity leave in my life.....so why shouldn't I be offered the same time off to do things that I deem important in my life? All I ask for is EQUALITY for all.

To all the "child free" people out there....I wish we could all work in the same office. Imagine how productive we would be....

Mssilhouette

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks...you've just added a lot in to the discussion in just a few words. WTG!

Wargod

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'll jump in on the dad issue and the employment issue as well. My husband and I pretty much split the child rearing and house work evenly. There are times that I do more than he does(when he is working overtime at work,) and times he does more than I do(when I'm in school at night,) but it does even out very nicely. We share homework duty, bathing, laundry, and well everything else. He's an assistant coach for our son's little league team, and I take our daughter to dance class......though on occassions we switch so we can be there for both of our children. When he worked nights, and I worked days, he was the one who took the kids to preschool, picked them up, took them to doctors appointments, and to the park during the mornings and afternoons. Now that he is working days, he doesn't get to do all that as often as he'd like to, but he makes up for it in other ways. When the kids were babies, he did his share of feedings, diapers, 3am wake up calls, and baths. He enjoys spending time with them as much as I do, and there are times he sees I need some time alone and he takes the kids and gives it to me, just as I do for him. We're parents, we're married, and like everything else in our lives, we work together and share responsibility(except for cooking, since on most occassions I'm not allowed near the kitchen, lol.) The kids are as likely to go to him if they have a problem or need comforting as they are to come to me. He carries pictures of them and is as likely as I am to pull them out and show off the kids as I am. He's a great dad and I have never once seen him show the least sign of losing interest in his kids.

Now, when it comes to getting a phone call in the middle of the day from the school or babysitter that one of the kids is sick, I am the one to take off work and not him. There are two reason for that. The first is that I'm much closer than he is. He works half an hour away, and I'm only six minutes away.....I can get there faster. Also, my company is more flexible about letting me off work than his is.

My company does this with parents and single people as well. Anyone who needs time off gets it, and if the rest of us have to pull together to get the job done it is no big deal because we know that sooner or later it will be us who needs to run leaving the rest to take over our job. I've been with the same place for 12 years, six as a parent, six without kids, and have never been treated any differently. If I needed time off before I had kids, I got it the same as I do now. We all take turns working holidays (which for us are half days,) and we take turns on who will be the one person to stay the full time on holidays. I do think it's terribly unfair that in most work places it does not work this way. People without children should have the same consideration as those who have children and it should be realized that they have a life outside the workplace.

NC.......we all know Bookie is a great mom!

Wargod

Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks, I agree with Mssilhouette!

Twiggyish

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 05:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with what Wargod just said about MisSil =)

Mssilhouette

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 10:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Twiggyish what Wargod said about me that I said about Gadzooks! LMAO

Nightcrawler

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 12:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
THANK YOU MOD (14) AND, THEOWL

I think after what me and my older son L.C. has had to go throw it made us closer. and thats just what his mom was trying to stop. well it back fired on her he now has little to do with her. thats sad I gess for both of them? but she did it to her self!!!! Bookworm trys to fill in were she can. but I thinf L.C. is a little gun shy after his real mom was so bad at being a mom.

Yuhuru

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 05:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mis,
I called it like I saw it. And clearly there were mothers on this site who felt "dissed" while they were being respectful and supportive. I hope you enjoyed your rant.

Buttercup

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 06:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Everybody who posts here is entitled to his or her own opinion. Just because some people disagree, or have different writing styles, doesn't give anybody the right to criticize or attack another poster.

I hope the discussion can continue on a level that makes people comfortable giving their opinions without the fear of being personally criticized or attacked. After all, that is what a great discussion is all about—at least in my opinion :)

Mssilhouette

Friday, May 24, 2002 - 07:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yuhuru,

It's not about my enjoyment or lack of enjoyment in ranting. It was an experession of opinion. If you personally felt "dissed" well I'm sorry you felt that way.

I'm glad the read the differing viewpoints all intelligently given...Thanks to everyone, you all are making a difficult topic very easy to talk about. And thanks for cablejockey for opening the door.

Sia

Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 06:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just finished "The Nanny Diaries" this evening. Has anyone here read that? I babysat a good bit as a teenager and as a twenty-something, but never worked as a nanny. I found the novel an eye-opener. My cousin worked as a nanny and had a positive experience; Nanny in the novel worked for a woman who came across as a borderline personality disorder! Yikes! I don't think I could have held my tongue the way Nanny did with Mrs. X. She would probably have fired me within the first month.

Buttercup

Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 07:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I was a nanny with the same family for over four years, the last two of which I went to school and they paid for. I had a wonderful experience. The youngest son is also my Godson :) We won't talk about the fact that he is now a teenager....ack!

Sia

Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 05:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Someone up-thread (can't remember who mentioned it first) asked about the division of labor between men and women when parenting is involved. I find that my husband doesn't WANT to help as much as I feel he should, and therefore he does not help with certain household chores. I stay at home (quit working when I had my first baby) and he works full-time, but I would still really appreciate some help with the mundane everyday household chores that he finds so distasteful. Hey, somebody has to do them; I have no maid, no housekeeper, nanny, fairies, or elves waiting to do my bidding. And if he can't bring himself to give the kids a bath or throw a load of clothes into the dryer, then I'd at least appreciate his taking the kids outdoors for an hour or two so that I can take a bath by myself, take a nap (!!!) or get a little housecleaning accomplished without constant interruptions. What is the best way to get a husband to help with housework?

I guess I don't have it as bad as some women, however; on the Oprah show the other day, Dr. Phil McGraw was counseling some couples who had really twisted marriages. One man PAID his live-in ex-wife $30/week "allowance" in exchange for child care, housekeeping AND s@x FIVE TIMES PER WEEK. For each time over FIVE that she made love with her ex-husband, he PAYS her an EXTRA $20. (I think that was the amount.) Man, I think that is really messed up. Anyone else see the show?

Wargod

Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I saw that one, and couldn't believe my ears. The hubby actually thought it was a great deal, though the ex-wife didn't seem too happy about it.

I found the easiest way to get my hubby to do chores was to point out right after our oldest child was born that what he didn't help with, probably wouldn't get done. I haven't had a problem with him helping, and things are split pretty much even for us. Since I work outside the house, the only way for all the work to be done is for both of us to do it.

Spygirl

Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 06:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Did I see it? Well, if Dr. Phil was on there, then the answer is definitely no. I can't STAND him

Sia

Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 07:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Spy, a lot of people feel that way towards Dr. Phil. My hubby makes fun of his advice, but he really cracks up whenever Dr. Phil asks somebody, "Well, how's THAT workin' for ya?" I like Dr. Phil, myself; I like how he cuts through the crap to make people realize things they should see in regard to relationships that just aren't working.

Ketchuplover

Monday, May 27, 2002 - 04:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd sell my soul to have children.

Sia

Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, Ketchup, I hardly know what to say to someone who really wants children but couldn't have them without tremendous difficulty--or at all. I feel fortunate that I didn't have difficulty getting pregnant and that I have the kids I have; I would trade with anyone for any reason. I was so frightened when I first found out I was expecting, but things have worked out all right. Motherhood is challenging, difficult, and rewarding. It requires much self-sacrifice, and I worry a little bit that I am getting the worst part of the deal here, but I have to believe that it will be okay. Being out of the work force for several years will really take a toll on my retirement money; I will probably never be able to make that up. I hope it won't matter in the long run. When I worked at a "real job" (one with a paycheck, days off, stock options and retirement plan) I felt like I made a difference in the world, like I actually affected people's lives. I got a yearly performance review to let me know how I was doing on the job, but now I won't know for years and years whether I am doing a good job or not. Everything in life is a trade-off. There are good and bad aspects of any situation in which one finds oneself. I hope you have found other sources of happiness, Ketchup. My best to you.