Archive through May 21, 2002
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The ClubHouse: Archives: No Children: Archive through May 21, 2002

Cablejockey

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 07:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have been seeing and hearing a lot of people talking about not having children, lately. A couple was on tv last week--that men's talk show with Danny Bonaduci---extolling the joys of not having children. In my paper today I read of another twentysomething being sterilized so she can't have children, plus there is a group you can join called No Kidding. I can see their point of view, but I have children and am certainly not sorry or regretful. What do you think? If you could go back would you not have any kids? Are you young now and not wanting children?

Tksoard

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 08:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Or let's go this way. I have always dreamed of having kids, and even had their names all picked out. I never was able to, and I miss it so much sometimes, it hurts. That's why my dogs mean so much to me, but if I had spoiled my kids the way my dogs are spoiled, this world would be in bad shape!!

Twiggyish

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it's an individual choice. Who says everyone has to give birth? A couple who don't want children, may not make the best parents. It's not selfish (as I've heard others say), it's an intelligent and thoughtful decision.
Yes, being a parent is wonderful, but it isn't for everyone. I've seen plenty of people with lots of kids, who never should have had even one. These same people complain constantly, yet, they keep having children. I groan when they brag about being pregnant again.

Grooch

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes, Twiggy. We should all be thankful that Will and Tara from TAR2 never had kids.

Karuuna

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
lol, Grooch. Agreed!

Seriously, I saw a poll a few years back that said that more than half the people who had children would not have children if they had the chance to do it over.

Personally, I think being a mom is the greatest gift I've ever been blessed with.

Webkitty

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I only have one child from my first marrage, he's grown now. We are close, and I always wanted to have more, but it didn't work out that way for me.
I count my blessings though for what I have.

My kitties are my kids now (and they are spoiled!)

Twiggyish

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
A good example Grooch!

Julieboo

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Twiggy, you are soooo right. It is not selfish at all. It is a choice. And there are benefits either way. I bet more people would see more benefits with kids than without.

I also think not everyone should have kids. In fact there are plenty of people who should not have any. Imo, I think people should actually have fewer kids and give them more attention. (does that make sense?)

Twiggyish

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yup, it sure does!

Fruitbat

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Kar, I read about that survey and the results are kind of skewed. Many said, that they would choose to do their life again without them just to see what would have happened differently, where would they have chosen to live, would their careers be different, etc. It was an intellectual musing rather than an emotional response. A game question, so to speak.

Others took it on emotionally and responded with a reaction to living without their children.

I have enjoyed being a mother and certainly cannot imagine not having these nifty young men in my life. I am also curious as to what it would have been like had we been childless.

It would depend what age your children are when this question was asked too. :) Had they nabbed me in the middle of the 'what if' stage (mom, what if there were cats on the moon?) I may have said NO, NEVER! Catch me at a moment when they had their arms around my neck saying 'I love you', I would have told you I wanted 3 more.

Shakes

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I decided early in my twenties that I did not want to have children. The reasons were/are varied and many - I just didn't see children in my future. I never felt there was anything particularly wrong with my choice - but the few times I mentioned it to friends I was met with wide-eyed stares and assurances that I would change my mind eventually. I never did...I am now 39 years old.

Not wanting to have children seemed destined to be my "dirty little secret". I have to admit I'm relieved that women are starting to talk about it.

Don't get me wrong - I think women who become Moms, and are good at it, are part angel, part hero, part saint.

Max

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I never had kids, but I tried. As it turns out, I'm glad I didn't succeed with my ex-husband because it would mean I'd have to stay in touch with him!

Our society seems to sometimes have a very narrow view of how life should be led. You should seek marriage, then kids. (Although nowadays it doesn't necessarily happen in that order!) If you don't do that, you are somehow not "normal" and there's a certain number of people who will look down their noses at you.

For women, there's the added burden of dealing with folks who think you should stay at home with the kids and the other side who think you aren't worth much unless you have a "real" job.

The only path to true happiness is to do what makes YOU comfortable regardless of what others might think (assuming we are talking only about marriage, children, and careers here, folks :)). If you spend time worrying about how others view your decisions, you'll always find people who can make you feel bad.

For me, sometimes I regret not having children, other times I'm very glad I don't. Just depends on my mood. I do enjoy being the "adopted aunt" for several kids at my church. It's sort of the best of both worlds! :)

Not everyone is cut out to be a parent.
Not everyone who would make a good parent is blessed with being one.
Not everyone is the same.
And isn't that what makes life interesting?

Oregonfire

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd like to eventually have one or two kids, but how the heck am I going to find the money or a good husband? Sorry but it's true. If I skip the husband, than I better have the money--and I can't even support myself at the moment. (I'm getting my second bachelor's degree in graphic design because I need a more reliable source of income than my teaching gig currently provides me).

My mother had also said that she wasn't meant to be a mother--gee, like I didn't notice. I mentioned to her that I would like to have a child within the next five years, and she was horrified. She doesn't even want grandkids. Which leads me to another problem--who would help me out with watching them?

So yes, I want a little boy or girl, but reality doesn't seem to agree with me at the moment. As long as my eggs are still good in five or six years, I can wait until I'm financially in a better place. I think I'd be a good mom.

Mssilhouette

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well I'm in my 30's and I've always thought that I probably wouldn't have children. I know what Shakes mean by having it be a dirty little secret because people look at you wrong when a WOMAN says she doesn;'t want children. If a man says that it's pretty much understood that he wants to live his single life but a woman surely she cannot choose that life.

I also think that sometimes couples with children can sometimes assume that because a person is single and without children that their time is free and open so they can call upon them to maybe babysit at any moment.

I also get a lot of single parent women who stare wide eyes when I tell them I don't have any children. It's mostly as if I was lucky and missed a bullet or something. I've honestly had this said to me "Wow I wish I could do that" My thinking is "Well dang wasn't that your choice to have and care for a child...I chose not to have one."

I think a woman's decision NOT to have a child shouldn't not be met with shock and surprise. It's not every woman's destiny to have a baby.
I also think its terrible to met with looks as if you've just arrived from the leper colony becuase you made a decision to NOT have a kid.

One more thinng :) Those moms who have single girlfriends please stop talking to us about your kids! If I've made the decision to not have one that means I won't change my mind because you decide to talk about babies and the joys of motherhood.

Okay I think I'm done with my rant....whew :)

Moondance

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You go Mssil! You go girl!:) Yeh!

Julieboo

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oregon, you sound a lot like me a few years ago. the difference is our moms. (She loves me too much!) I wanted kids from the time I was 9. I even had lists of names for them. Well, throughout my teens and 20's, I didn't have many boyfriends. As I entered my thrities I pretty much thought I'd just have kitties. Then, a week after my 1st neice was born,(and I figured that she'd be my "borrowed" baby whenever I needed a kid fix) I started dating this guy from work. Fast forward 5 years and we're married and have a son.

Twiggyish

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
We mom's do get a bit braggy now and then..LOL I love being a mom.
But, I can understand how others feel. Hubby and I were childless for 13 years. I couldn't tell you how many well meaning people would talk to us about their kids, and then they always asked why we didn't have one..etc..
Finally, I told them none of their business! I might have said it in a more diplomatic manner, but they got the point.
As I said above, it's a personal decision for each person.

Donut

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 03:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i always either notice people that definitely want kids, always have, and people who definitely dont want them, never have. Is there anyone out there who was or is more ambiguous? Anyone who is petrified to have them, but has a hard time thinking of a future without em? And if those who were ambiguous and not real gung ho, went ahead and did it, did you all end up happy with it or did anyone freak out and wanna give the kid back?
Also curious, are there any older moms out there?
And another curiiosity --Were most moms out there always gaga over babies,or were any of you not big in the cootchiecoo department, but enjoy when they are older more? I work with all ages of kids and was curious if parents have a favorite age of their kids. Cuz i notice that people seem most into my preschool stories than my other age kids.

Sia

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 05:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Donut, since you asked, I'm an "older mom" of two preschoolers; pregnancy was not easy and it isn't easy taking care of two active youngsters with the health problems I have. (For one thing, arthritis makes it painful/difficult/nearly impossible to get up off the floor once I'm down there; sometimes I CRAWL to the nearest stout piece of furniture to haul myself upright!)

I love my children and they have changed my life irrevocably, for the better, but I won't say anything more than that unless MsSilhouette lifts her ban on mothers gushing about their children. I have lots to say on the matter, both good and bad. There are many reasons to have children--and as many NOT to have them.

When I was young, I adamantly refused to entertain the possibility of having children of my own. I was certain I would never have kids at all. I was later disabused of that notion. (Funny stories about this later, if requested.)

One quick anecdote: when I was single and complaining about the messes made by my two housecats, my father told me "You'll never have anything nice as long as you have cats--or kids!" And he was right; both my cats and kids have stained the carpeting, scratched furniture, broken lamps, destroyed important paperwork, lost my things, cost me a lot of money and caused me a great deal of effort to try to keep my home neat and orderly. But I think they're worth it. Hey, even the husband is high-maintenance, and I wouldn't dream of sending him to the pound! I love him, too. They're all mine, and, when it comes right down to it, all that I really, truly have. When I die, it can be said about me that I loved and was loved.

Oregonfire

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 05:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hi Donut! to answer your question--I'm pretty ambiguous about having kids, and always have been. It's not something I've ever really focused on in a positive or negative way. I'm more career-oriented at this stage of my life, and I figure the best lesson I can teach any potential children I may have is to go for what you want out of life.

All of my immediate family are terrible defeatists, and I'd rather not pass on that disposition. My mom's reasoning: "I never made more than $30,000 a year or enjoyed MY job--why should you?" Another gem: my sister's boyfriend owes her thousands of dollars and is a total louse in every conceivable way. My mom's reasoning: "Well, he did put oil in her car once," basically the "any man is a good man" philosophy, which you would understand if you met her husband. And my sister and dad are even worse, convinced that fate has decided to drop bird poo on their heads for all eternity.


Sorry--obviously I have some family issues here. But they squander life and treat it like a chore rather than a gift.

Yuhuru

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm a mom. I have a son and I have one on the way. I really enjoy it, but I can totally understand women who don't want children. I have a lot of respect for women who don't succumb to societal pressure to do/be someone that they're not.

I think most neglected children are a result of parents who didn't want them and that's sad.

Teatime

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is a thoughtful, intelligent conversation. No wonder I love reading what you all wrote. I think it's wonderful that we as a society are finally feeling comfortable enough with ourselves and each other to celebrate and respect all of our choices and lifestyles. I know we still have a ways to go - there will always be idiots to educate - but we have made a lot of progress in letting go of hang-ups and the twisted notion that parenting is part of everyone's life journey.

I have children. A casual friend has grieved because she will not have children. I treasure our times together. I make an effort not to brag about my children, and she makes an effort not to brag about her beloved Roxie too much. We both know this because we talk openly about it, and we've laughed more than once about it. Of course we are both free to bring up any of the "kids" when somebody's made a trip to the vet/doc or learned a new trick. Part of what I love about this woman is that she can talk for hours with me without feeling the need to talk about my kids. There are no false pretenses. She's not really interested and I love it that she lets me know that.

Donut you asked some specific questions. I'll answer a couple. I am one of those people who is "not big in the cootchiecoo department". I was never gaga over babies. I am excellent with infants, I have worked with infants, I LOVE them of course, but I have decided that's why God made them so cute: so that people like me will think they're so adorable that we will make sure they get everything they need including all those extra nuzzles under their downy soft necks. BUT, what I am really always waiting for is seeing them grow into responsible, kind and loving people OVER the age of 3! My kids are aged 3 to 22, and there is definitely something to get thrilled about at all those other stages. Even when they are 12 and smell bad and are grumpy and not so darn adorable. So I am partial to the school aged kids I guess. Mostly, I am just amazed that I am a part of these little people's lives. I was ambiguous about becoming a parent, but grew into the role. And in spite of their parenting, the kids are turning out fine.

Kstme

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 07:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
HI Donut!!! I'm one of those people who absolutely does NOT think all babies are cute! I like children when they can be reasoned with and understand the concept...for every action, there is a reaction! I don't like ill-behaved or bad mannered children. Please and thank you are NOT four letter words!

I thought at the time I had TheKid, I would never have a child. I was older...in 1976 being 29 was "really" old to have your first child. My dh and I were reading a book called "A Baby Maybe" and guess what??

I've always loved her, but I really ENJOYED her as she matured with the ability to communicate.

Gadzooks

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mssilhouette.....you totally rock!!!

I'm 34 and I've never wanted children. When I was a child I used to throw my dolls out of the baby carriage and replace them with my cat. Fast forward to the present and my attitude hasn't changed, eventhough hundreds of people kept telling me that I would change my mind.

I can never talk about how I really feel with people because they give me "that look". Like I'm the devil or a witch for thinking the way I do. So here it goes. It is my belief that having children is a selfish act. It is simply a way to clone yourself and create your own personal slave/punching bag. In the first few years it's all about goo goo gaa gaa stuff and isn't she/he precious, but then it turns to "I can't wait until he/she turns 18 and I can have my life back". Basically, parents want to re-live their youth through their children and form them into the people that they wanted to become. So, as a child you have the pressure to please your parents, teachers, friends, etc....and in the end you have to change your parents' diapers. Isn't it great? I've seen mom's and dad's that have done everything for their kids thinking that they wouldn't be alone in their old age, but the kids turned out ungrateful and stuck them in retirement homes so they wouldn't disturb their lifestyle. So, I see it as a lose-lose situation. Either way....you end up dying alone...so why bother having kids?

Also, I'm so sick of hearing women gushing about their kids all day long. It is the most tiresome conversation in the world. WHO CARES!!! What happened to talking about travel, world events, and entertainment. I could care less that little suzie sneezed today. GAWD!!! In addition, I'm fed up with having to take up the slack at work for all these women that need time off for their sick kids or maternity leaves. Or, how about the boss asking me to work the holiday shifts cause I don't have a family. Hello!!! I have a life too and I don't appreciate being dismissed when I ask for time off for myself.

Don't get me wrong. I believe there are some people truly meant to be parents out there. However, I am petrified of the slacker generation out there today. What kind of parenting did they get? NOT GOOD. O.K. I'm done with my rant....but heck it's about time we get to voice our opinion.

Mssilhouette

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gadzooks I can appreciate your point of view....and I'm glad you felt free to share it. I know it all builds up because women are supposed to be the nurtures of the world, but I don't have to nurture a child. I appreciate the decision that my father and mother made to have me. But I am plaesed that my father recongizes that I am an individual.

Although he did want us to have the same initials and astrological sign...LOL yeah but I was stubborn and missed it by 1 day :) Yes having kids can be a way to live on forever to some extent but I'm sure my friend's kids will remember their "aunt" who played video games and taught them things.

Anyhoo the point is that sometimes the insessant pressure stated and understated to have children is a big irritation to those women who have made the decision not to do so.

I'd completely forgotten about the work situation! ACK! We've gotten righs for women with children but those who don't have any still get punished for it. I don't really have a solution for the matter except to be allowed equal time off as well. And asking Single people to work on a holiday because they're single is just plain old ingnorant unequal bullcrap!

Whew again..wow this is theraputic! LOL