A wise man once said.....
The ClubHouse: Archives: A wise man once said.....
Faerygdds | Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 07:23 pm     Spy... only problem is that I have taken it and know what level it is on... and frankly if a 10th grader does not have that kind of very basic knowledge, then the system has failed them... Having said that, I do agree that standardized tests are generally flawed. |
Christina | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 04:16 am     I feel here in Ontario, we have learned from the mistakes of not educating our children. The curriculm has changed here immensly. My son is getting the education and history etc. that wasnt stressed to me as a child. He is in 7th grade. I am 39. I am learning a great deal from his studies. I too was passed from grade to grade. I wasnt dumb, but I usually didnt grasp the math or get my history straight. Now, I dont participate in those conversations. My son can usually jump in. The children are doing a pile of work though every day. Atleast 2 hrs homework every nite. I want him to enjoy his short young life, but I also know the value of a good education. It is hard to push a child too, and you have to push. There is no time to take off. There is alot of information to absorb. Too make a long story short..I think we have learned from our mistakes and our younger generation is going to have the necessary skills to survive. |
Faerygdds | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:56 am     That is great to hear Christina... now would you PLEASE come tell that to our Congress and Representatives??? I hadn't thought of it in terms of pushing children... I believe 2 things about children fundamentally (when it comes to this subject): 1) All Children are sponges and love input - how we give them that input is up to us... (video games or PBS?) 2) Children will rise or fall to the level of expectation. This one I believe in whole-heartedly. I have a friend whose child has ADD and really BAD. He starts pre-K next year. Instead of being frustrated and testing limits and teaching their child (SLOWLY) over the next year and a half how to not go running through the house screaming like a madman and sitting in one spot for a certain period of time, his attitude is, "Yeah, I expect to be in the principal's office -- ALOT" and "I'm not gonna make him just sit in one spot... it'll be the school's problem then" Teachers of the world will be happy to know that I fought him on his ideology so far that I may have actually severed a friendship, but if it makes him think and helps Thorin, then SO BE IT! Ultimately it will be the child that suffers. Shame too -- he's REALLY bright, just really ADD... |
Xxlt | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 09:16 am     we may as well go to congress and the reps to look after this mess.... this a.m. a film clip of L.A. city councilman, Nate Holden, was shown on the news. He was commenting on the embattled police chief and his fight to keep his job. The P.C. hired an attorney to represent him, bringing the possibility of a lawsuit against the city. paraphrasing here..... 'Chief Parks don't was this to happen'... push your children NOW!!!!!!! 8 years of private school was hell, but when i look at some of my co-workers, peers and elders i am so glad that my parents made the sacrfice. Yes, it's tough on the kids but the work they do today will insure that they will grow up educated and not working as hard as their parents. |
Faerygdds | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 09:32 am     'Chief Parks don't was this to happen'... Oh yeah.. like THAT makes sense... pfttttt Who writes these things? One of the things I learned in high school (Thanks Mrs. Patton) was to READ my papers out loud pausing and breathing with the grammar and punctuation. You know... you kind of trail off with ellipses, pause with comma, stop and take a breath with a period, etc. After I learned this little trick my grammar marks improved greatly! I still employ it today! I am often heard muttering (reading)... I know I may LOOK a little silly doing it, but often I "hear" more problems than I "see". Does that make sense???? Try it sometime... it's like playing a concerto and suddenly hitting a sour note when something is improperly worded. It just doesn't SOUND right. |
Whowhere | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 10:45 am     Two words (agreeing with Xx) PRIVATE SCHOOL. The quality of education as well as the 'challenging' curriculum is unbelievably different from public school (at least where I live). It's a shame that it is so expensive, but for my daughter, IMO, worth every cent. I can only imagine that it better prepares you for college. Some of you may or may not agree with this, BUT, I find that for SOME 17-18 year old kids, they are not ready for college. They're parents are footing the bill and they haven't yet developed that 'thirst' for knowledge. True, some are ready and do excel, but for a lot of them, they're merely just filling a seat. My husband went to college at the ripe old age of 26, (not that old mind you) and one thing he noticed was the lack of drive and maturity with his 18 year old classmates. They just didn't care, they didn't show up and they didn't do their work. When tuition $$ comes out of your OWN pocket, it tends to make you take it a bit more seriously. Some of these 22 year old kids come out of college and have learned nothing except how to party hardy with their parents' money. And ultimately, that(money) is the only thing that got them through college. Another thing I agree with Xx about, USE A DICTIONARY. I have one at home that I call my bible - it weighs about 25 pounds and I constantly find myself looking in it. It's old, it's ugly, it's heavy, but beside word definitions, it has a wealth of information in it. From maps to chronological timelines, from presidential history to a crossword puzzle and foreign language dictionaries. I LOVE IT!!! I suppose it also helps me enhance my upper body strength.  |
Xxlt | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 11:55 am     (i was looking at the thread and see myself misspelling words-horrified look on my face- so much for my parents private school money!!!) the 'parks don't was this to happen' came out of his mouth!!!! we have another politician out here Maxine Waters whose grammar is 10x's WORSE!!!!!! faery, i do it all the time!!! ("who are you talking to?", "i'm reading that's all......") some passages sound rough, it takes me a few times but they USUALLY MAKE SENSE..... Who, i went to a catholic school, Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, (not the real name, of course!) and there 'ain't nuthin like the ol' wrath of a nun' to make you learn..... how's about a required course in phonics about the 2nd/3rd grade in public school???? being as old as i am i still have a thirst for learning...going to get my degree, eventually.... yes the money does matter. after my job told me that they would NOT pay for my education because it was not health related I said to myself, 'just go for it.'i was chastised by my co-workers for paying for my own books and tuition.......they still work in the records room..... The joke around my house is that the kids will get books or a gift cert to a book store from me as a gift on Xmas......(mom HATES that, of course the grandmother factor figures in!) for me it was the pictures....i wanted to know what was going on so I HAD to learn how to read the captions..... |
Faerygdds | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:17 pm     I also went to private wchool for my Junior and Senior years only. And while I got a great education, I often wish that I taken my senior year more seriously and skipped the electives. As for college... maybe 12 years of school, then immediately going to college is a BAD idea... maybe it would be better if kids were required to get jobs for 1 year after grad. It might change their perspective... then again... it might not!!! Who knows.. maybe that an extraordinarily BAD idea, but it's just a thought! Oh and XX... don't worry about it.. I look back at my posts and realize I should have practiced mor in typing class... after all, I can SPELL... I just don't TYPE very accurately! |
Whowhere | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:27 pm     No, not an extraordinarily bad idea - a pretty good one if you ask me. Of course, some kids are born mature and are ready for college before elementary school, but not that many. Maybe they (kids and parents) should have to take some sort of psychological entrance exam. "Sorry...you're not ready yet. Try again next year." |
Xxlt | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 01:33 pm     one other thing about the 'private to public school' transition i found out that i was about 2 grade levels ahead of the pack...that led to quite a bit of derision from my peers! after being taught to achieve you had to learn to reign your enthusiasm in-otherwise it was 'fight city'- pretty discouraging at times........ I think that there may be some good points about either scenario, private then public or public then private...getting the basics in private school first leads to a base that will benefit the kids later on, Civics (god, now i am dating myself....), phonics, history, basic math-no computers!!!!!!! teach kids the slide rule!(of course there was the groovy red pencil box with the sliding scale for the multipication tables on the top!!!) SHOW YOUR WORK!! make the kids handwrite some of their work! that sounds archaic but i worked with a gal- the four track girl- and her 'handwriting' was third grade printing.....I felt so sorry for her. people would always complain about her writing but never to her face! some of the 'old ways' weren't so bad......... faery, i know what you mean about the typing..... i call it "mental vomiting"... trying so hard to keep up with the thought process as you zoom along!!!! who, GREAT IDEA, but think of all the psychos and lawsuits you'll uncover.........'My child isn't maladjusted.." heard of a lawsuit a while back of a hi-school basketball player (junior) invited to play on the varsity team, due to the rules he was not allowed to play on the varsity squad....Father files a lawsuit against the school, what was he seeking? his NBA/professional earnings. PROFESSIONAL EARNINGS? the kid probably hasn't grown a hair yet the dad thinks he's going to be a pro..... one of the most mortifying experiences in college was taking a human sexuality class with a bunch of 19-20 somethings..........I felt like i was in class w/Beavis and Butthead........ 'the teacher said penis, huh-huh huh-huh'.... |
Grooch | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 01:49 pm     I don't think going to public or private school makes a diference. Anyone who wants to learn, can. And there are plenty of horrible private schools out there, also. I think one of the biggest problems are the parents, themselves. They say the first 2 years of a child's life are the most important. These are the molding years for how they will act in the future. I will never understand why a woman has a baby and only takes off the first 3 months and then runs back to work dropping the kid off somewhere else to basically be raised. Especially if it is a daycare. I know there are exceptions to the rule, where people have no choice at all, but there are many that could sacrifice a bit and can stay home. And staying home with the kid, doesn't mean sitting him/her in front of the tv all day (letting the TV be the babysitter.) It means spending time with the child and reading to him and playing games him. I know I have opened myself to be flamed, but it is just my opinion. But like I said, I just can't imagine having a baby and then running off to work a few months later. |
Whowhere | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 01:51 pm     (of course, I'm only speaking/typing about my own personal experience(s)- I would hope that this is not the case everywhere) You're right about the lawsuits, which brings me to point out what's wrong with kids these days. There's no authority figure in public schools anymore. Everyone is out to sue somebody. Teachers can't and don't do what they should, out of fear of a lawsuit or negative public exposure. It's a really sad process, but it's true. Parents can definitely be part of the problem. In private school, I pay those teachers to discipline my child in a constructive way. My husband went to private elementary school and 9th grade highschool. He swears, to this day, that in 10th, 11th and 12th grade all he did was "sit around and wait for everyone else to get it." Private school challenges you to be ahead of the game - public school let's you get by with the bare minimum, which does not at all prepare you for college. My daughter goes to a Catholic private school (too) and due to all the negative talk regarding molestation (etc.) in the church, registration for next year has dropped dramatically. What a shame. |
Whowhere | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 01:59 pm     You're right Grooch. I never went to private school, but still had that thirst for learning. Some just don't. My daughter (in 1st grade) had a big problem with a bully in public school. After meeting with the principal, the bully's parents and her teacher, they did nothing to satisfy our concerns. It was like they didn't care. You compare classroom sizes - public school -36 kids, private school -17 kids. Private school tends to give children more one-on-one attention, whereas public school is/can be completely chaotic. IMO, the teachers get overwhelmed and intimidated, not only by the students, but by parents. The bulk of the blame, IMO, can be pointed at the parents. I completely agree. |
Grooch | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 02:00 pm     <<public school let's you get by with the bare minimum, which does not at all prepare you for college>> It does not have to be that way. There are gifted classes, advanced classes, etc. There are public magnet schools down here in Florida that specializes in different fields that is very competitive to get into. In NY, I graduated with a Regents Diploma which basically means that I had to take advanced classes, 3 years of a foreign language and more classes on core subjects and less electives. It had a higher grade for passing a class then regular diplomas had. It also came with a small scholarship. It may not have been much, but every little bit helps. If a student wants to learn, there are plenty of ways too. I still don't think you need to go to private school. |
Grooch | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 02:02 pm     Oops, posted this before I saw your reply, Whowhere. You do have some valid points about class size and bullies. But I think that part of the problem is that with both parents working, they are to exhausted and have no time to get involved with school activites like the PTA, or fighting for better schools, etc. They must hope that someone else will do it and take care of these problems. It is a problem with our society. |
Xxlt | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 02:51 pm     Grooch, yikes.....we'll start off with school first!! go to a free lunch and you'll probably get wilted lettuce-bologna sandwiches, if you pay for lunch, you'll expect a bit more....yes, there are bad private schools out there, they don't last long! private schools have more resources, better curriculums, better teachers, smaller class sizes, better materials than private schools. when parents spend money for an education (who, care to chime in?) they sure as heck will make sure that their kids ARE getting 'smart'.....if you do not learn in a private school, you'll leave so fast your head will spin...administrators do not waste time on kids who don't want to learn.. it's a 'given' that parents should be there for the formative years (wonder bread-helps build strong bodies 12 ways!) but too many parents ignore that part of parenting completely. blame the parents for the day care scenario. we can go into planned parenthood, abortion, childcare, welfare and god knows where else.... but it comes down to people not thinking when it comes to sex. it's a 50-50 split for blame. both those threads could be woven into 'sex ed in the schools' but you'll still end up with the same split.....50-50, for and against...until people get their heads out of their nether regions and realize that SEX IS ONLY AS DIRTY AS YOU MAKE IT, nothing will change.... it's a vicious circle, parent are not ready to teach their kids about the most elemental rules/facts about their bodies, that leaves them open to do 'field research', take the chance of pregnancy, Std's, parenthood at a very early age, maybe with some education we can help people make a more 'informed' choice when it comes to having sex, kids, etc. earlier in the thread someone mentioned the 'kid as a sponge' scenario. you can let someone else fill that sponge or do the work yourself. in the ideal world all people would realize that having sex will lead to kids, then to the responsibility of caring for them, educating them and turning them loose on the planet.. |
Xxlt | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 03:54 pm     to shift gears a second....i lost a few places there! grooch makes the point: "If a student wants to learn, there are plenty of ways too." not to be nitpicking- but i hope you mean "a student SHOULD learn"...looking at the asian-american part of our society, i see many Asian-Americans in high paying/status jobs because they were expected to learn and achieve....i don't think we should give students the OPTION of taking up pens and paper.. you go to school to learn, yes, there are places in the workforce for people who do not aspire to become scientists, docs, lawyers, etc. but i think that we should push them to learn a bit more...how many unpolished gems are there in our school system at this moment? could you have driven by a school today not knowing the person that will cure cancer was playing dodgeball in the yard? they may not HAVE to go private school to make their mark on mankind, but what's wrong with giving a child more of a chance??? Private schools are not for just the privileged part of society, my dad and mom sent 6 to private school, not an inexpensive proposition!!! i now realize it was a labor of love, my parents did not want us to labor away our lives doing menial work.....but, by the same token, why should scholarships be given, or higher grades for advanced/magnet courses? do we penalized kids for learning at a differrent rate with such incentives? look towards the Afghani children LINING UP to go to school.......the arguement of public versus private schools loses steam right there......... they just want to get into school, they really do not care about incentives, class size, scholarships, honors or magnets...they just want to learn.....we have the richest country on the planet and in some areas we can only get 75% of our children to pass a basic skills test??? (Here's one can o'worms i'll flip the lid off right now.........................) i would not mind paying taxes and seeing the money go top education, here in Cal they run the effing lotto and tell us that every class gets 3 g's in funds......Muther effing history books have carter as president, i know that books aren't updated that easily but how's about a gen ed version with a curriculum designed to go over the loose ends? another slap in the face were the history book publishers running to include 9/11 attack in the new version!!!!who cares if carter is still president in some classrooms of america.......in the san fernando valley LAST YEAR the LA city school district was stunned when a teacher went to explain the symbology of the american flag in her class and found out that the flag only had 48 stars on it, a search thru the school found that all the flags were short a few stars!!!!! if i remember my history correctly the last stars were added in '59????? instead of keeping the flags for their historic value, the district replaced the flags and destroyed the old ones!!!! as i said before, you can have bologna sandwiches, or a nice piece of meat...........i don't mind paying a few cents more for something more filling and satisfying. |
Grooch | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 04:27 pm     <<go to a free lunch and you'll probably get wilted lettuce-bologna sandwiches, if you pay for lunch, you'll expect a bit more....yes, there are bad private schools out there, they don't last long! private schools have more resources, better curriculums, better teachers, smaller class sizes, better materials than private schools. when parents spend money for an education (who, care to chime in?) they sure as heck will make sure that their kids ARE getting 'smart'>> Xxlt, I agree with most of what you say, but public schools are not a free lunch. We pay for them with our taxes. I would not mind paying more if it meant that they improve the schools. And my point about how parents should be at home. Well, a lot of mothers are working to pay for their kid to go to the private school. And they are putting away nothing for the college education. And this is at the expense of spending time with the child. The public schools are broken, but if so many parents didn't have to work, maybe they would have more energy to help fix the problems. Florida started the lottery down here also under the guise that the money earned from it would go to schools. What they neglected to mention was that they ended up cutting the school budget and spent that money on something else. So in effect the budget stayed the same. And I have a real problem with the Government being involved in the gambling business. <<it's a 'given' that parents should be there for the formative years but too many parents ignore that part of parenting completely. blame the parents for the day care scenario>> That's my point. To many parents do neglect it. And I am not talking about people who get pregnant by accident, etc. I am talking about upper and middle class people who know better. They have a kid, but either are to selfish to sacrifice a few luxeries or have been brain washed into thinking they have to keep up with the Jones. They have babies and then hand them over the next month for someone else to basically raise. They also think the schools should be responsible for their kids. You talk about Asian kids having well paying jobs because it is expected from them. That is true, in my opinion of many different ethnicities that first come over here. The parents came over here with the desire to get ahead and pound it into their kids heads. They are also coming from a culture where it is very family oriented. But I believe in a few generations, they will be "Americanized" and will be having the same problems with their kids that we do. And I am sure that there are plenty of Asians that come over here and never make it either. You just don't notice them. Anyway, those are just some random thoughts. And I am sure I am not explaining myself well. You threw so many ideas out at me. I am sure I will have some more thoughts later. Like I said before, I agree with most of what you said. But I do think that a lot of the problems are that parents do not spend enough time with their kids and they can if they wanted to do it. |
Grooch | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 04:34 pm     <<grooch makes the point: "If a student wants to learn, there are plenty of ways too." not to be nitpicking- but i hope you mean "a student SHOULD learn"...looking at the asian-american part of our society, i see many Asian-Americans in high paying/status jobs because they were expected to learn and achieve....i don't think we should give students the OPTION of taking up pens and paper.. >> You know, that is nit picking. But I'm off to spend some quality time with my puppy. You know, that just reminded me of something I heard a few years ago. That "quality time" is a bunch of garbage and that kids need "quantity time" with their parents. |
Faerygdds | Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 08:09 pm     Did I spark a discussion while I was sleeping??? ooops..... heh heh GOOD!!! Great points all! I think that everyone is correct. It's the parents fault, the schools, fault... heck.. it's everyone's fault. There is a saying that it takes a village to raise a child, in other words everyone has to work together, but in today's society we only know how to compete with each other, not work together as a cohesive team. Look at HS sports. Used to be we played them to learn the fundamental of teamwork, now we are aspiring to be pros... pfttt... I think I liked the old paradigm! And as far as QT goes. I think it's important to have the quantity of time, but make sure that some of that is QUALITY time as well  |
Rabbit | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 01:20 am     Deciding whether to give up a job to stay home with a child full time but raise it in poverty, or keeping your job to better provide for them is a tough choice for any parent to have to make. We had to make that choice some 25 years ago and we did what we felt was right for our family. Despite the fact that we were crippled by only having public school educations it worked out. Our kids turned out just fine. To this day I am not sure whether we made the best choice of the two therefore I would never criticize a parent who took the other path. I suspect that either would of worked out well because we loved our little bunnies. We next failed our children because by the time they were of school age I was making pretty good money and could easily afford to send my kids to private school but we chose not too. It wasn’t the money, lord knows I spent enough on the little boogers at U of O and PSU that I think they should rename the libraries Hare Hall. I felt the exclusive private schools were homogeneous little snob factories. My opinion of the nuns after eight years of catechism was that too many of them seemed to be obsessed with order, blind faith and memorization while I wanted my kids to be inquisitive and to challenge assumptions. Of coarse I was probably wrong as I am more of a wise-guy than a wise-man. Well, thankfully, despite my vast deficiencies as a parent (Mrs. Rabbit is practically perfect in every way), the kids turned out just fine. I suspect many children have a capacity to overcome the inadequacies of their parents. |
Faerygdds | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 06:49 am     Rabbit... you were a FINE parent!!!! No worries (ugh.. I think BBOz iz catching up to me) The problem is that it isn't the case for everyone. Take my friends for example (the one I'm still fuming at): He has 2 gorgeous children. The older one, Thorin (age 4), just enrolled for pre-K. He is really smart, but no one works with him. He has a very young Mother (who does not work) who was not ready for the responsibilities of parenthood (her words, not mine) and a father who frankly is so selfish and self absorbed that he can't/won't take the time to discipline his son and prepare him for the future. Now... having painted such an ugly picture most of you must think, "How can you be friends with someone like that?" Well... that's a long story I will NOT get into... suffice it to say that I had a lot more respect for my friend "M" before he had kids. And once he literally saved my life, so in a way I feel indebted enough to always be there for him and his. M & J love their kids, don't get me wrong, but they CHOOSE not to discipline him. Well, that's not true. J tries to, but it simply isn't consistant because of Dad. Dad refuses to discipline Thorin because: - He just gets worse - When I get home from work the last thing I want to deal with is his bad mood - I'm too tired to try to make him sit still for 5 minutes (Thorin is ADD - unmedicated) - Another year and it'll be the school's problem and they can fix it (ok... breathe Faery BREATHE!) We are talking about a large number (no I am not saying majority... just a large number) of parents who feel that if they can just get their kids to school age they can pawn them off on the systm and it will all be fine, but you and I both know that if the foundation of discipline is not there BEFORE they get to school, it is just that much harder for them and their classmates to get a decent education. ------ Now before anyone goes off and says ... well... ADD children are difficult to deal with, etc... *I* was and ADD child. My Mother, however, was a smart cookie... (thank GOD!) She would come home from work and would sit down with me and we would "play". It was my favorite time of day... She would come home, tell me to get ready to play, put dinner on to cook and then while dinner was prepared she would alternate between Dinner and me! I would go and get the wipe off boards, sit down at the table and we would play with letters and numbers and words. My Brother (also ADD) read by age 3... I was a little slower due to a hearing problem we weren't able to correct until I was 6. But I was still reading by the age of 5. And by reading I don't mean "See Jane Run" I mean... before I went into ear surgery, I was reading a story out of my brother's books. Yes.. I remember getting frustrated and wanting to wiggle around, but my Mother kept telling me how important is was to be able to sit quietly when it was required... in other words.. she took the time to discipline me. She gave me the foundation to be ABLE to learn in school. All too often I see parents in her posistion who take the other roads... either just let them be... OR... give them something to "fix" it (Riddlin). As far as the public vs private debate. I feel like if more parents gave their kids the foundation then the general atmosphere of our schools would be different, thus our children would learn more because there would be less distractions and more focus on learning. JMO |
Xxlt | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 09:38 am     rabbit, don't worry about the kids, if they grow up, stay outta trouble and are polite, half the battle is won! about private school-you mentioned "homogeneous little snob factories"-true at the elite levels!!!! when you see beemers, range rovers and saabs dropping kids off in the morning you know your kids should not go to school there. tuitions are outrageous and teachers are cowed more often than in "regular" private school because the parents 'run' the school....here in LA the elite schools are funded by people who don't think twice about thousand $ a month tuitions, making 'donations' to the school just to get a break on their taxes. the schools reply in kind by letting the high rollers kid's go ape sh!t because of the threat of losing their benefactors. years ago i worked with kids whose parents were doctors...every summer they'd flood in an work with mommy and daddy....they attended schools that I never heard of (lived here all my life)!!!! they would not take instruction and would go crying to their parents when things went wrong! the "spoiled kid factories " are at the higher end of the spectrum......the school i attended was blue collar. no frills there!!! I do see your point about snobs tho......but a good education is something that people SHOULD wear like a badge of honor. I am thankful that my parents took the initiative to give us a good base and education. we should encourage kids to be 'educated snobs' with good manners, and a good head on their shoulders. now on the religious part of the program..... catechism is just a small view of the whole private school picture. remember you are only dealing with beliefs, therefore the lack of room for inquisition and challenges!!!! i don't know the frequency of your classes but i can tell you for sure that if you were there for the 'whole experience' you'd see a push towards asking questions and learning. the catholic religion is very weird about challenges to the faith!!!!! catechism is the push to learn about religion... nothing more, nothing less...their blind faith and order is something that all religions preach. wouldn't going to such a structured situation make your kids naturally inquisitive??? if your kids came home with more questions than they left with that morning i think you shouldn't worry! they are on the right track! faery, we will do ADD afterwards!!!!! (just to start off i do not believe in ADD! everything is pigeonholed and has to have a name-what ever happened to rambunctious kids? some kids just need more TLC, and time! we are tuned into the neat rows of chairs in the classrooms-anything outside of the orderliness of those rows is looked on as chaos..) |
Faerygdds | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 10:05 am     My Cath High School was also very blue collar and not high dollar. It DOES make a difference! faery, we will do ADD afterwards!!!!! (just to start off i do not believe in ADD! everything is pigeonholed and has to have a name-what ever happened to rambunctious kids? some kids just need more TLC, and time! we are tuned into the neat rows of chairs in the classrooms-anything outside of the orderliness of those rows is looked on as chaos..) I didn't find out until after the car accident 5 years ago... when they prescribed valium and I bounced off the walls for 12 hours. I then asked my parents if I had ever been diagnosed... they admitted I had! I never knew!!! So there apparently is a medical neurological difference between ADD ppl and the "norm"... but then again... what the heck is "normal" anyway??? But Dad was a pharmacist and knew that there was no data as to what happens with long term use of Riddlin and thus I was never medicated. Instead I got the extra TLC and patience. Thank you Mom and Dad!!!  |
Xxlt | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:12 am     um, it could be more chemical that neurological! chemicals are what make the neurological go zing! kinda like the kind of gas you put into a car....some of us are gas engines, some of us are diesels! cross the fuel and the engine doesn't work properly. Long term studies on the use of drugs for ADD kids were not done a while back. Ritalin is a bandaid for the people who do not have the patience or time to deal with an 'ADD' kid. the 'backwards' effect of some drugs on people isn't that uncommon. drugs effect people in different ways.....ask you dad about the strange 'side effects' that some drugs have had on people, i am sure he'll tell you some stories! just as we are all different in size, shape and coloring we all have different speeds as to how we learn. dyslexia is far more common that first realized......we often called kids slow or stupid because they didn't learn at the right speed! (another peeve of mine is the individualization of class rooms....notice that there are less 'team projects' in schools any more......) normal?, normal only exists within the frame of your own mind and what's 'right' with the world at that moment.....nothing is normal.. you mentioned tornadoes a few messages back! in LA tornadoes are not normal, earthquakes are!! it's all a matter of persepctive and what side of the fence you are on. |
Faerygdds | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:34 am     Like I said.. I was "untreated" and turned out just fine. So yes, I agree with you. Can we compromise and say then that ADD can ne classified as a neurochemical thing then??? My Dad actually did explain all the chemical happening of the backwards effect, but frankly it was over my head! Chemistry is not my strong suit! And on top of Dyslexia there is now a thing called hyperlexia. Lots of kids who have hyperlexia are misdiagnosed with a myriad of things depending on their level of the disorder from autism to ADD. When the kids got diagnosed I did some research on the disorder and based on some of the things I read I think it's MORE likely that that's what I had rather than ADD. Especially because of the whole language/reading comprehension part of it. It's hard to explain.... and frankly... my fingers are getting tired... so for another day however if you want more info you can go to www.hyperlexia.org |
Xxlt | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:53 am     faery, twist my arm.......... i concur!!!! i'll check out that link, thanks! my level of chemistry is don't mix drano and bleach! and no bleach in dark colored wash loads one more thing to think about...... dyslexia isn't a bad thing....notice the areas in a persons life that are 'heightened' in some regards! grooch, before i forget! (i'm nitpicking now,lol!) you are correct that public schools are not a 'free lunch'- people that send their kids to private school just SUPER SIZE their orders!!! you did a slam bang job of getting your points across.....i was just mentally vomiting....i tend to puke up thoughts and end up not making any sense..... |
Faerygdds | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 01:06 pm     Same thing with Hyperlexia... we are good with words, letters, and numbers... it just gets a little fuzzy when you try to put the words together to form a sentence. I remember reading and just NOT understanding what I was reading. It's like... you know the words... but you can't figure out how they relate to each other... does that make sense??? Yet... I was tops in math and spelling! The only I refer to dyslexia and hyperlexia as disorders is because medically speaking (and both my parents are medical)it's classified that way... not that *I* classify it as such. oh and btw... <twist> <twist> |
Xxlt | Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 02:34 pm     hyperlexia link.. an interesting perspective. i have the problem that i do better @ looking at things as pictures. somehow instructions don't process! maps and diagrams aren't a problem.....tech manuals kill me......you learn to memorize the steps you need to perform tasks...the amazing thing is the adaptation we go thru to make up for our shortcomings..... you make sense........instead of disorder, condition sounds more workable......disorder sounds like it's kinda unfixable....... i bet sick days in your house were hard to pull off! (i lost an arm wrestling match in jr high to a gal and i have never lived it down. ouch! you win..) i just saw that the philly school system just privatized 70 of it's 200 schools..... |
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