Archive through March 01, 2002

The ClubHouse: Archives: Andrea Yates confession: Archive through March 01, 2002

Urgrace

Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:58 pm Click here to edit this post
A man who is that dominant and controlling could have been the factor which caused her mental instability in the first place. Her instability grew with post partum depression, and she obviously had no say in birth control following the first child. A person's desperation to succeed in rearing a child while being dominated and controlled becomes a daily struggle and multiplys with the addition of more children to rear and protect from such domination, too. Mental illness can creep up on you little by little until you have lost all reasoning for yourself, especially if you feel all is lost for your children.

Yes, Mr. Yates had a very big part in this tragedy. Anyone can go through the motions to make themselves look like they did the right thing, particularly when they know they have to cover their 'tracks'. The shame is knowing that Andrea will have to bear all the blame when there was truly no real help for her. My first impression of Mr. Yates was that he knew she was going to do it, and he felt relieved that it had happened. Even with much more information since that day, my impression has not changed.

Whowhere

Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:01 pm Click here to edit this post
I agree Ur and I think it's quite obvious that he knew she was going to do it. He knew when she called him right after she did it.

I think we're on to something here folks. Perhaps we should call somebody. :)

Twiggyish

Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 06:32 pm Click here to edit this post
Her sister was on TV this morning (Today Show). When asked about her brother-in-law, Yates, she said she couldn't comment. I thought that was a bit odd. Is it possible the family knew something more about him?

Aussiedeb

Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 08:29 pm Click here to edit this post
I knew from the day it happened and he appeared on TV that something was amiss.

For the life of me I cant understand why when she was on such powerful drugs that they let her keep the kids.

I suffer with Depression/Anxiety, and have had 2 failed suicide attempts since I moved to the US. I was even diagnosed as schizophrenic, as I was convinced there were 2 of me. They put me on medication that was powerful, to the point I was self mutilating by cutting my wrists, hands and legs, with everything from a knife to scissors, and at my lowest point, after everything sharp was removed from my house, I used my stud earrings and diamond ring. I changed doctors and threw out those pills, and have not cut myself since, but I am scarred from the cuts.

My kids live in Australia and I was glad at that time they werent here, but I could never imagine harming them at all. I felt it was better to try to end my life than harm anyone else.

After lots of money on therapy etc, I am finally normal again to a degree. I still take antidepressant meds, but at least I can function.

I was fortunate to have a hubby who stood by me and got me help etc. Apparently a lot of my probs are due to my controlling mother and controlling and abusive ex husband, it all just built up till I finally snapped.

It makes me wonder what drove her to that point where she took her kids lives and not just her own. Maybe he pushed her and convinced her those kids were the devils etc..

Urgrace

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:00 am Click here to edit this post
I understand that Aussiedeb. One who has lived with and abusive person could pick up on Yates' attitude easily.

This is a possible scenario: Yates could have engineered the entire life of his wife, and she could have been too weak or scared to not follow his desires. When she became overpowered mentally she became afraid for her children. She wanted to protect them, and since she knew she was mentally weak, she knew she might not be able to protect them in any other way than to end their lives. She may have told her husband that she did not want the children to live if they had to abide by his ways, and he may have told her he didn't care. She then killed the children to protect them, but didn't kill herself so that she could be properly punished and feel good about herself.

I only wrote this as a speculation, based on the way my ex handled situations that got out of his hands and control. He was diagnosed with mutiple personalities. I only knew one of them before we were married. Thank God, he got help after we separated, and is now taking medication to control a very real syndrome. His wife and I are good friends and keep in close touch.

Christina

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 04:34 am Click here to edit this post
The only reason I dont speculate about Mr Yates is becuz as I have mentioned before, I live with a person who has bipolar. He has had a breakdown with psychosis. I was there to help him through it.(thankfully nothing terrible happened, but the potential was there)His family had absolutely no undersatnding as to what was happening. The conclusions that they came to amazed me. We have a wonderful relationship.Myself and hubby. They assumedThe family) that we had a dysfunctional relationship, "she must be so hard on him, that he broke", They insisted that he must have had male sexual encounters, they"assumed" a lot. For me the caregiver and the one who at the time had lots to deal with felt very frustrated and wondered why I had to defend myself for anothers actions. What I am trying to say that mental illness is way too hard to figure out or to understand. I also am afraid that people will blame me for his actions, most of the time a person with a mental illness doesnt even know why they are doing or saying what theydo. I can hear and see all the things that he does in his life, But think about it folks, when you are feeling WELL, which I am sure Mrs Yates had many good days. Is anyone aloud to come into your life and tell you what to do. No way...in your mind whether good or bad, is anyone going to tell you what to do? No way!! I am sure that when you feel you are doing the right thing on many ocassions there will always be someone to say you are wrong. Unfortunately this was a terrible thing to happen. Only Mrs Yates killed those children. I dont know what should happen now only that she is committed to intensive healthcare for ever.

Car54

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:30 am Click here to edit this post
Thank you Christina. I too have had dealings with mental illness in my life. I would not pretend to know anything about what was or was not going on in the Yates family, but I hope I am never in a position to be judged on what I "should have" or "must have" known was going on in my life and family. As I said before, this whole trial, publicity is very sad. I dread the news every day right now.

Christina

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:48 am Click here to edit this post
Yes so , so sad. Anything and every thing this family has done or said in the past years is going to be analyzed and criticised so much by so many people. People will always have view points and opinions and such. I wish there were answers and cures. I honestly believe that no one in the family ever wanted such a terrible thing to happen. So, that is why It is so hard to blame anyone. If they could see what was going to happen they wouldnt have.....well you know.

Jville

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:56 am Click here to edit this post
I'm sorry that some of you have had mental illness in your lives. I would think, of all people, you would be the first to condemn the actions (or lack thereof) of Rusty.

No one ever WANTS these things to happen. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not there were red flags that would indicate that something like this COULD happen. The red flags were all over the place and it happened anyway. No, we don't solely blame a diagnosed severely psychotic person for their actions, but we do question the supposed 'sane' circle of people around them.

I would expect opinions, view points and judgements to be thrown my way if I defended the person who murdered my children.

If my husband allowed my child(ren) to be subjected to danger in any way, I would hold him accountable period.

If any of you have read anything about this man, you would clearly see that he isn't exactly what I would call 'normal'. I feel no pity for this man. He deserves the guilt that he will carry with him for the rest of his life because he could have, and should have, done something to relieve his wife's responsibility to care for those kids. Like the point several of you have made within this post. WHY, did HE keep impregnating this woman? WHY, did HE leave his children alone with someone who had tried to commit suicide on multiple occassions? Poor Rusty. I hope and pray that he feels that ongoing guilt while he sits in cell block #3.

I not only think that he didn't care about Andrea, I don't believe he truly cared for those children either. How could he??

Answer this question truthfully: Who, on this board, would leave their child(ren) alone, on a daily basis, with a clinically proven psychopath? Very easy question for me to answer because it's that cut and dry.

Labmouse

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 11:37 am Click here to edit this post
Jville, in a previous post I tried to write what you have so eloquently posted above. I agree 100 %. He may not have done the physical crime, but he sure contributed to the conditions that brought it about. Even though he will not be legally liable, I think history will find him just as guilty as his wife when all is said and done.

Jville

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 11:51 am Click here to edit this post
Thanks Lab. I think it's the mother in me that feels so passionate about this. It truly sickens and devastates me simultaneously.

I read an analogy somewhere referring to this. They talked about how the driver of a get-away car after a robbery is an accessory to the crime. It's a shame that the same thing doesn't apply in this case.

As we discuss the case of Andrea Yates, let's not forget Danielle van Dam. Authorities believe they have found her body. God Bless her parents and may she rest in peace.

Car54

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:01 pm Click here to edit this post
Reading and posting in this thread has really started to impact me personally in a very negative way. After reading the last 2 days discussions, I think I need to go back to being a lurker for a while and take a break.

Pax.

Karuuna

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 01:15 pm Click here to edit this post
Oh, please don't get me started on the parents of Danielle van Dam... they are also partially responsible for what happened to their poor daughter.

Whowhere

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 01:44 pm Click here to edit this post
Good point Kar - there are several questionable moves on their part.

For one, I can't imagine waking up in the middle of the night by the home alarm, finding a door WIDE open and then going right back to bed. Pretty strange if you ask me.

Karuuna

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 04:12 pm Click here to edit this post
On Yates - I have to confess I don't understand the desire to defend Rusty Yates.

This is a man:
Who Andrea called "controlling and manipulative"
Who by his own admission, didn't treat his wife with respect
Who only allowed his wife to have one friend. (Allowed??, One??)
Who was blamed by the wife's family and friends for contributing to Andrea's mental health problems.
Who made his family live in a bus for 2 years, and only bought a home when given an ultimatum by his wife's family.
Who was told by a psychiatrist that having another child could cause a repeat of psychosis in his wife that was "more severe" than the previous ones.
Who decided to have another child anyway, because he felt HE could tell the signs of a problem, and would be able to handle it.

Rusty took on the responsibility himself, and he didn't handle it. And to absolve himself of any responsibility now just seems to me to be another tactic for a "controlling, manipulative" man.

That's just my opinion. And it doesn't refer to any other person, in any other situation. It's just my response to this particular man in this situation. It's not a comment on what I think of all men. Nor do I think those things because he is male. I think them because that's who Rusty Yates appears to be, and in some cases has admitted to be.

Karuuna

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 04:19 pm Click here to edit this post
Now, just cause I'm an equal opportunity kind of person, I have to question some of the behavior of Brenda Van Dam.

Whowhere - I hadn't heard that the alarm woke them, they found an open door, and then when back to sleep. All I've read is that they say there was a "breech" in their home "at the time Danielle disappeared". I can't help but wonder how they know when Danielle disappeared since no one checked on her from the time she went to bed, until 9 am the next morning.

In the first week or so of interviews, Brenda always referred to Danielle in the past tense, and then would correct herself. I found that very odd. As if she already believed that Danielle was dead.

Westerfield said he had a drink with, and danced with Brenda that night at the bar. Brenda denies even seeing him there. However, the bartender confirmed that Westerfield was there.

Brenda did say she "closed the door" to Danielle's room, but didn't check on her. As a mother, I find that very odd.

The "friends" that Brenda brought home were actually there as part of the spouse swapping/swinging group that Brenda and her hubby belonged to. The reason she brought them home was to have a little fun (not just visit as she said). I suppose she closed the door to Danielle's room so that Danielle wouldn't be disturbed. But again, I have to wonder if Brenda had her mind on other things, that distracted her from being a parent?

The same disclaimer as above applies. Just reverse the men/male to women/female, etc.

Twiggyish

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:30 pm Click here to edit this post
Kar, I don't agree about Danielle's parents.
They did lead a very different life, but I don't think they are to blame for her death.

To me, this is a different situation from the Yates.
In that case, there is a mentally ill woman with a past history of sickness. There were warnings, which should have been taken into consideration.

With Danielle, her parents were not mentally ill and had no warning of any harm to their child. This is a different case.

I know a lot of people feel the way you do Kar on this subject.

Karuuna

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:34 pm Click here to edit this post
Twigs - it is a different case, but I still think it involves some amount of parents not doing the job they signed up for when they had kids. Rusty didn't protect his kids. Brenda was too distracted by her own needs for fun to check on her child. And it still doesn't explain why she lied about not seeing Westerfield at the bar; or why she kept talking about her daughter in the past tense. I just think there's something fishy there.

Twiggyish

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:51 pm Click here to edit this post
It's possible she was ashamed or afraid of admitting knowing this man. Also,he was a neighbor, not necessarily someone from her group of friends.
He was a sexual perverted deviant (more disgusting words included here) who lived next door.
As to her thinking of her child in the past tense, I chalk it up to shock!!
The whole thing makes me sick!

Karuuna

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:05 pm Click here to edit this post
It is possible, Twiggy. It just makes me wonder why she lied. If he was a suspect, wouldn't it have been better if she told the truth to the police? Wouldn't telling the truth help the investigation to find her daughter? Wouldn't your need to have your daughter found as soon as possible exceed your shame or fear?

That of course in no way excuses the horrible thing done to her daughter; nor does it remove the tiniest ounce of blame from the deviant who did it. I don't really believe in the death penalty, but when someone does something like this to a child...

Twiggyish

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:11 pm Click here to edit this post
Oh absolutely that man should face the death penalty.
I don't know why she lied, but then like I said, she could have been in shock.

Dahli

Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:04 pm Click here to edit this post
The VERY day this all happened he was standing out in the yard with pictures and teddy bears or something and actually answering reporter's questions....

I remember thinking this guy is too strange - what is he doing!? Where is his support system, relatives and friends, lawyer, even a neighbour ANYBODY to stop this??!
The circus atmosphere and totally inappropriate conversation he was having was utterly creepy and the look on his face made my skin crawl.

Logan

Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:30 am Click here to edit this post
Polly Klass's mother was at home when her daughter was also abducted from within the home. Its unfair to place blame on the parents of Danielle. There is no parent who is awake 24/7 watching their children, its inconceivable.

Christina

Friday, March 01, 2002 - 04:09 am Click here to edit this post
I am with you car, The emotions stirred up in me are just that, stirred up. I will be a lurker as well.

Twiggyish

Friday, March 01, 2002 - 05:44 am Click here to edit this post
I'm sorry you feel that way Christina. I do understand your view.