Archive through February 05, 2002
The ClubHouse: Archives: Job Stresses, and trying to make a living:
Archive through February 05, 2002
Whoami | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 10:30 am     Well, browsing about in various threads, I see many people are having trouble with their jobs. Layoffs, crummy bosses/co-workers, etc. So, I thought I'd centralize this in a thread. We can all support each other! Hey, they say networking helps, maybe one of us will run into someone who knows someone who needs a good employee! My situation. I am unemployed, having been laid off for the third time in my life. I'm so embarrased to say it has been a year, and I still havent' found anything. I am a serios introvert, and don't fare well at interviews. This time around, I don't even seem to be getting many interviews! I had two great ones last week, but neither one has contacted me back (I will call them Monday to ask what's up!). For the record, that introvert thing goes for phone calls too. When I know I have to make a phone call, my mouth goes dry, my heart thumps. I stutter. Just not very skilled in the "going out and making contacts" thing that is so important in getting a job. The thing is, I was tormented by my peers as I was growing up (cause of my looks), and learned to withdraw as a defense. When I jobhunt, I am ASKING people to judge me. Not a good thing at all! My mom and I bought our house together back in 86. She held on to her townhouse till just last year. The value in the townhouse went up so much, that she was able to use the profit from that one to pay off this house. So, thanks to her we are still doing okay. We were on the phone with my older sister a few weeks ago, and she asked me if I was getting unemployment anymore (no, it ran out). She said, "well, there goes Mom's retirement!" It was so cruel, but probably pretty true! It doesn't help my confidence any though. She said I should go work at McDonalds (great, 43 years old and all she thinks I can get is a job with teenagers!). I work in the manufacturing field, with lots of experience in Quality Control and Materials Management (mostly and recently Materials). I've done everything from handling parts myself, to the higher end stuff of MRP/Databse/Work Order Management, etc. I get the interviews, but as soon as they see a fat, grey haired, woman, I can see the "Next!" written all over their faces. |
Car54 | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 10:52 am     Who, what kind of work do you WANT to be doing? It sounds like you are happier working with things or in production than with a job in the public or service area (me too!). I have a lot of the same personal issues, and it takes a lot of confidence and energy to look for a job-and being laid off sure doesn't help with that. Instead of thinking of the interview as being "judged", which probably makes you feel nervous and defensive, maybe you could think of it as kind of an exchange- use the interview to find out what your potential employer is looking for.... what do they need done... and then try to show them what skills and attributes do you have to offer- hard work, maturity, accuracy, dedication. I have had to look for a job several times in the past few years, and it is like preparing for battle. You have to really build yourself up and show what you have to offer. I know that after a while of looking that is not easy, but you really do have some very marketable skills! I do some hiring and training in my job, and let me tell you those attributes are hard to come by! We look for someone who wants to come and do the work we need done- who is willing to learn, and who will stay! We can find plenty of teenagers and plenty of people who just want to get paid for showing up, but a grown up who is going to really contribute to our efforts is a prize to us. If you lived in my area, I would love to have you apply for work! Hang in there! |
Grooch | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 11:12 am     Whoami, what's wrong with working at Walmart or McDonald's, sersiously? I plan on changing jobs and I have the fear of what if I switch and it is a mistake? I am clinging onto the idea that I will always have places like that to go to. It may not be as much money, but at least it will get me out of the house and socialize and network. Who knows, I could always work my way up to manager or who knows what else. Plus, I assume I could pick my own hours. I won't stuck on that 9 to 5 thing every day. I would much rather work a Saturday and have a weekday off. I see it as a stepping stone and freedom while I am looking for something else. Look at American Beauty. The guy quit his job and ran of to work the drive through. You know what? He was happy. I could relate to him. But I would rather work at Walmarts or something like that. They get a discount. Whoami, your life is an open book right and you are in a postion to go off and try anything you want. Keep plugging away at it. I know it is very hard to be an introvert. So you know what you have to do? Just keep going on interviews. Even for jobs you know you don't want. It makes great practise and will help you with the pressure when you go for a job you know you do want. Trust me, I always make sure I do that when I have been unemployeed. I have been on job interviews for an accounting postion where they asked me to sing for them. Why? Who the heck knows? I just do it and try to enjoy myself. I always figure that this job is not meant for me but I am getting the practise I need for the interview for the job that will be perfect for me. Things happen for a reason. |
Whoami | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 11:23 am     Walmart may not be too bad. McDonald's....mmmm I don't know. I worked at one in my early 20's, and failed miserably. I wasn't fired, but I did quit after a few weeks when I got my first manufacturing job. I remember being stuck in the drive through. Those drive through speakers that everyone jokes about works two ways! It didn't help that, if I asked a customer to repeat themselves, the person training me got livid, cut me down, told me I was doing it all wrong, shoved me out of the way, and just did it herself (while I stood by, ignored, wondering what I was supposed to do next). |
Car54 | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 11:33 am     Grooch, we are on the same wavelength today! I just came back to this thread to say basically the same thing. I worked for a number of years as a theatre designer (in the heyday of the National Endowment for the Arts- lots of work then) it was a very high pressure, deadline oriented, demanding kind of work. For health reasons, I decided to make a change, and had no earthly idea what I wanted to do- had never done anything else. I too had a mom who was willing to help me make a change- thank God for her! I took a job in retail for exactly the reasons Grooch mentions- First of all, I needed a paycheck- my mom helped me for a while, but couldn't pay for everything. I wanted some flexibility- I was willing to work any hours- I am single- no real time constraints, but wanted time to look for other possibilities. A lot of retail businesses are open from 9 am to 9 pm- 7 days a week, and because I was willing to take several evening shifts and work on the weekend, and have weekdays off, they loved me. I had never worked hourly before, but in some ways it was very freeing- I showed up, worked hard while I was there (because I worked the odd shifts, I always asked what needed to be done when I came in- I like to be busy- it makes the time go faster- and my boss LOVED it! She could leave me a "to do list" and know a bunch of stuff would get done.) BUT, when I left work, I had no responsibility- my time was my own. I had always worked on salary and had a lot of pressure, so this was heaven to me! This job led me to many others, but even now, I remember how getting that job, and finding out how much I had to offer in a field I had no experience in, and how much I was appreciated made me feel so good. It really helped me get my feet under me and helped me feel I was marketable and also gave me a whole range of experiences I could learn from. Maybe you should think about finding some kind of "fill-in" job- just to make some bucks, get out of the house, and who knows where it might lead you? |
Kstme | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 11:57 am     I kind of joked about my job at the "stop and rob" but it was in a very nice area close to where we lived at the time. I probably made less at that job than I did any other, but I loved it! It was like being a bar tender without passing out the drinks! I saw the same people every morning, noon and evening. They talked about their troubles, the great things, kids, animals, jobs, wives, husbands, etc., etc... I only worked there for 9 months, but it was a hoot! Whoami...I totally agree with Car and Grooch...I was thinking the same thing. Sometimes a "big" job can come from a "lesser" job. I had a friend when I was in my twenties who worked for one of those photo processing places...no money and no way to move forward. A customer of hers thought she showed potential...he hired her to work for his insurance agency. She made a career working in that industry! |
Oregonfire | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 12:19 pm     Whoami? You are an important person, that's who!! Have you thought about working from home? I know it's crossed my mind several times since I get endless snotty attitudes from the students in my classes. Unfortunately in capitalist America, your identity is very much tied in with what you do for a living. I remember reading somewhere that the first question Europeans ask a new acquaintance is "Where are you from?" Someone from a Hispanic culture might ask "Who is your family?" In America, the first question is usually "What do you do?" I read that in Paris, saleswomen in retail stores will ignore you while talking to each other, so as not to have the appearance of working for a living. Being eager to help a customer is seen as a very "gouche" thing to do. Anyway, my point is that sometimes here in the States, the individual can too often get lost in the capitalist shuffle. We should work to live, not live to work. BTW, I hate crap jobs, and I admire anyone who can be cheerful with a mop in one hand and a toilet cleaner in the other! |
Moondance | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 12:31 pm      |
Grooch | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 01:00 pm     Whoami email me. I want to tell you something. My address is in my profile. But I probably won't get a chance to email you back till Monday. |
Whoami | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 01:14 pm     Hi Grooch. E-mail is on it's way as requested. I used my account wolfsoul@iwon.com (anyone else may e-mail me there if you wish). I found out that using "wolf" in my addy sometimes makes people cautious, thinking a wierdo is trying to reach them. So I usually have to warn people when I use this addy. I really only used Wolf cause I see it as my animal totem! |
Ocean_Islands | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 01:15 pm     There are classes in assertiveness training that you might be able to find -- even on the internet -- to help you get over shyness that might get in the way of a job search. What's important is to be involved -- in something, in whatever small way you can. Involvement with others can do wonders to bring change to one's life! |
Grooch | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 01:33 pm     I agree, OI! Whoami, I'll email when I get a chance to think for more than 5 minutes. My husband is due home any minute after being away for the past week. He deserves my attention and I don't know when till Monday that I can concentrate on job hunting. |
Buttercup | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 02:11 pm     Great suggestions, OI. Whoami, have you ever done any volunteer work? It's a great way to get involved with people without having to worry about being judged, etc. People will be happy that you are there to help! This in turn will probably make you feel good I know that you are looking for a paying job, but you can do volunteering while you are looking. Also, who knows, you may make some good contacts in the process. I used to have a job with a salary a few $$ short of six digits, BUT the most rewarding job I have ever had was when I recently volunteered at a hospital for a few months. I originally did this because I thought I needed to do something useful with my time while I figured out which new direction I wanted my life to take. The rewards for doing this, was something I had never expected, and is something that I forever will be grateful for having done. Imagine people thanking you just for being there. Several times people would come to me and thank me for always having a smile on my face To me it was something that took absolutely no effort, but to others it was a blessing and much appreciated in a hectic and tough environment. My point is that you don't have to do anything "fantastic" or work in a special place to be a special person, to be appreciated, and to like and feel rewarded for what you do. Sorry, I guess I went out on a tangent there... Anyway, by sharing your story here, it sounds like you are headed in the right direction and are open to suggestions and ideas. I am sure somebody here will inspire you to do something that will get you to where you want to be
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Merlin | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 04:31 pm     Interesting buttercup, wanting/looking for a job but giving your time as a volunteer. This is not something I would have thought of. Good post. |
Soeur | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 04:45 pm     There is such good advice in this thread. Whoami you were very smart to have started it. If you hadn't then all these people would not have been given the opportunity to share their ideas & experiences. Keep making yourself available so that opportunities can find you. Good luck. |
Lancecrossfire | Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 05:28 pm     This thread, along with the profession/job thread has some great information, insights and thoughts. The types of jobs just a sampling of the folks at TVCH have now or have had is all over the board. The experiences people have had are all over the board too—and sometimes it’s that way for just one person. I know jobs have been discussed before, with Oregonfire often leading the way in expressing what they are going through and kind of working things out by talking out loud on the board. I’ve noticed a couple of things that seem to carry over each time the subject is covered, no matter from what angle or from when its’ covered. First of all, it doesn’t really seem to be that important as far as what we do in order to enjoy it. I think quite a few people have indicated a real enjoyment in the work they do, yet the types of work have varied greatly. The same can be said for those who have indicated they don’t like what they do, or who they are doing it for. Yet as pointed out, all too often we are indeed judged by what we do. That is really unfortunate, because the world needs all types of jobs to be done. Capitalism is all about anyone being able to make a fortune for themselves. The land of opportunity, as it were. Yet when you look at who enjoys getting up each day, wanting to go to work instead of dreading to go, you will notice that their outlook on the future and that very day is so much better. Who doesn’t want to experience that? Who doesn’t want to feel they are worth something? Who doesn’t want to make some kind of a difference. I’m not sure we should be striving for more money in our jobs instead of striving for the job we can be happy with and enjoy. Some have realized that, and some have not. And of the folks who have, some have tried doing something about it, and some haven’t. Of those trying, there has been everything from total success to not having gotten there at all yet. Part of the title of this thread is job stresses. I’ve got to think that the biggest stress anyone could get because of their job is a result of dreading to come to it each day. Talk about a downer! Just think of the potential affects that could have on job performance. On how you treat yourself and the rest of the world. Yet stress is really self-induced. It’s how we chose to react to any given situation. I’d imagine that feeling positive or negative everyday about what we do will play a big role in how we take on and decide what is stressful for us. Trying to make a living. Well, certainly having enough money to pay for a place to live, for food, transportation and a basic level of comfort (like heat in the winter) has to play a big part in what we strive for. It’s hard to worry about a report being late if you haven’t eaten in 3 days, or freeze every night at home. Once we get to the point where we can have our basic comforts met (and what that can be up for debate for some—IMHO you don’t have to have a 5,000 square foot house to have a safe and comfortable place to live—but some seem to think it’s needed), then the things specific to the job come into play. One of the biggest pitfalls though is the belief that money is a motivator. In a number of courses I’ve taken related to the issue of jobs, they have all said that money isn’t a true motivator. I find that fascinating. Maybe it’s because the things that allow us to like our jobs—truly like what we do, aren’t tied so much to money. I hope that everyone can find a job they really love. If you haven’t already, you should go over to read Merlin’s post in the profession/jobs thread. I think he goes a great job of explaining what he does, how he feels about it, and some of the rewards he’s gotten from his job that never could be put into a checking account. It seems like you can feel how much he loves what he does. Pay attention when you got into a fast food place sometime. Very few workers in those jobs make much above minimum wage. Yet, some like what they do, work hard to provide a good product, and care about the person they are serving. Some do not. I bet it’s easy to tell which is which, and I bet you’d much rather have the former serving you. When you walk out, you feel like you’ve had a decent experience—or at least a heck of a lot better experience than you would have had with the latter. Look, someone making minimum wage just made a difference to someone else--you. |
Ketchuplover | Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 11:20 am     (((((((WHOAMI)))))) Look in the mirror and say "I AM SOMEBODY" & " I AM GREAT" |
Whoami | Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 12:52 pm     Wow! There are some greats words of wisdom and advice here! Thank you everyone for your support. Taking a "lesser" job (like Mac's or Wal-Mart) isn't beneath me by any means. One of the things that deters me from it is my sense of commitment. The sad truth is, these aren't career type postitions (with benefits such as health insurance, etc). As a "fill in" job, it's fine. I would definetly be searching for full time work while doing one of those jobs. But, once I commit myself and my time to a company, I feel like a traitor to pack up and leave when something better comes along. Leaving someone hanging just isn't my style. When I did temp work, I told them repeatedly I would continue to look for full time work while doing the temp job(the temp agency was supposed to be looking for full time placement postitions, but would only come up with temp stuff). That may have hurt me in their eyes, but I also believe in being up front and honest. Working from home would be great, but I truly have no idea how to get started (or what I'd have to offer). I am very leary of those highly advertised "work from home" things, cause of their history of being scams. What do I WANT to do? Well, I love working on the computer, and I love being creative. I wondered if something like web design or graphic design would be good for me. But, again, those things take experience and education. I don't have $$ for going to school right now (even financial aid and loans aren't much of an option either). And, of course, everyone wants experience these days. I truly think my creative mind, my love for computers, and some of the things I've done would set me up wonderfully to learn a job in those areas quickly. But, my experience is, that employers don't want to train. How does one overcome that type of obstacle? In the back of my mind, I see the Hollywood version inexperienced geek kind of kid who goes to the interview and says "oh, if you hire me I'll work really really haaaardddd!" To which the interviewer just rolls their eyes. Well, before I make this post take up an entire page on the board, I just want to say thank you to everyone so far. I also want to point out that this thread is not just for me and my problems. I had noticed quite a few people talking about job stresses, and opened this thread so we could all have a sounding board. This is your forum too! |
Car54 | Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 12:54 pm     Lance, I want to thank you for your post. You have really made me think about a lot of things. No matter what job I am doing, I like to come in and give 100%. In my current job, I am finding that I do not like going to work very much. Once I get there and get busy, I am fine, carried along by my day, but if I allow myself to think, I do not like what I am doing much. I came to the job for security- they compensate me well, and they need what I can do very much.... but the reality is, I am batting clean-up most of the time. I am always the person who takes a job to pull things together... give me a goal and I will bust my behind to get there, but after 4 years, things are just not happening at this job... there is a real lack of momentum here and it is very hard for me to come in every day, and basically baby-sit. I came to help build something, not to keep cleaning up the same old messes every day. Anyway... thanks for making me think about some stuff. You always do! |
Kstme | Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 01:07 pm     Lance...that was a very insightful post! THANK YOU! |
Whoami | Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 11:18 pm     Let me add to the kudos Lance. As always, a wonderful and insightful post!! |
Oregonfire | Monday, February 04, 2002 - 07:05 pm     Question to the wise souls at TVCH: Fudging on your resume--healthy, or heinous? I just e-mailed a resume for online teaching in which I was brutally honest. Was that dumb? My friend, who shall remain nameless, said that I should fill in the gaps with fictional "side consulting projects" in order to seem a more productive member of society (she's currently going through their training program, but her side projects are real, not made up). I don't mind fudging a bit, but making up stuff outright--well, I just don't have the cajones for that stuff. Should I have? There's about a six-month gap in there. |
Soeur | Monday, February 04, 2002 - 07:07 pm     I'd tell the truth, otherwise you might always be uneasy about being grilled later and having to continue the fiction. Honesty is the best policy. |
Schoolmarm | Monday, February 04, 2002 - 07:37 pm     Don't fudge....you never know who will be reading your resume. Many people are so well connected that they will know people that you have worked with and will check things out. 6 month gap? No problem...weren't you working on your Masters? Lots of people have gaps in the resumes. Or you can avoid the gaps by just giving dates in years. OR no dates at all. |
Oregonfire | Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 10:16 am     Well it all worked out for the best, because I got an online interview. Wooo hooo! Maybe I'll actually be able to avoid living in the dumpster behind my house for a few more months. (I wonder if I can get a dial up connection from back there?) |
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