Archive through December 03, 2001

The ClubHouse: Archive: Miss Manners: Archive through December 03, 2001

Llkoolaid

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 07:15 pm Click here to edit this post
Guess you got the education in that class, sounds to me like you are a very caring educator, interested in doing a good job. I pity the next little creep who tries to pull this crap with you.

Evilnurse

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 07:25 pm Click here to edit this post
Oregonfire it sounds to me like this kid is just trying really hard to jerk your chain. Unfortunatly my son is alot like your student he enjoys pushing peoples buttons, the more they react the more he pushes.

I've have always tried to teach my children that I will listen to their point of view if they can back it up and not just reguritate things they have "heard". It worked better with some than others. Sounds like this kidke tooked the argument part of your studies a little
too literally

As for the Christmas Gift Certificates I suppose it depends on who you are giving it to. If its your niece who you don't get to see very much, then I think it is okay. If it's your wife/husband or mother i think you would be in big trouble.

Since this is a Miss Manners thread I have a question of my own.

Do you find my posting name offensive? It really started as a joke on the bbfc but is it inappropriate now?

Tess

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 07:34 pm Click here to edit this post
Evil, as one who has constant contact with nurses, evil and otherwise, I don't find your name the least bit offensive. In fact, it cracks me up. But then, I'm easily amused these days.

If you do decide you want to change your nick however, I suspect it is as easy as letting Gail know and she would help you out.

Oregonfire

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 07:36 pm Click here to edit this post
No, not at all. I like the imagery. A warped looking nurse with a huge needle is what comes to mind. But I have a twisted sense of humor

Llkoolaid

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 07:39 pm Click here to edit this post
It is just a name, and I am sure you are a great person. I however have an ex- sister -in -law who had 3 children and then went back to school to become a nurse. The pastures being greener on the other side of the fence, she moved the whole family to the USA to work. There she neglected her home, her husband and especially her children, and got herself a boyfriend. She decided to become a travelling nurse so my brother packed up the kids and moved back home. She has no interest in them and comes home once or twice a year and phones occasionally. I think of Sandra, that is the b@#ches name, whenever I see evilnurse. The name is just a joke like you say and is not offensive, I just like to vent about my sister in law and saw an opportunity, thank you very much, I feel better now.

Babyruth

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 08:12 pm Click here to edit this post
I'm a nurse and when I saw your nickname I cracked up and wished I had thought of it first!
I don't find it offensive at all. But then I have a warped sense of humor, like many on this board...

Evilnurse

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 08:20 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks guys! I feel so much better about it now. I really didn"t want to give up the name because it is my very first poster name and after 5 months I'm kinda attached to it. At the same time tho I don't want to offend the people here at TVCH. I have had way to much fun here to do that.

Tess, isn"t Gail terrific! Gail has already helped this novice alot.

Llkoolaid sorry for your bro and his children. My family is the focal point of my life. Sounds like your sister-in-law is just an a** nurse or not.

Whoami

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 10:01 pm Click here to edit this post
Oregon. You said it all in a nutshell when you said, "but the kid smelled fear and went for the throat." He had you pegged. Period. I'm glad you can come away from it more knowledgable. Too bad you can't go back in time and give him the grade he deserved on the first paper. When he'd cry foul, you had all the proof you needed that he didn't follow the assignment.

Gift cerfificates. Definetly depends on who the receiver is, and where they are (physically) in relation to where you are at Christmas. In my family, we draw names among the adults. One of the adults is my brother-in-law. He is VERY picky about his material belongings. Not even his wife (my sis) can properly pick things out for him. So he insists on gift certificates each year (specifically from two certain stores). As one who loves to put some thoughts into the gifts I buy, I found his name very boring to get. But I complied to his wishes and got the specified certificates. I also got a couple of "trinket" gifts, like a coffee cup, then I rolled one of the certificates up and put it inside the cup.

Weinermr

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 01:56 am Click here to edit this post
Evilnurse - I'm not offended at all at your nickname. It brings quite a humorous picture to mind, and I see it does the same to others as well. My wife is a nurse, and the most compassionate person I know, and yet.... she has a certain aspect to her sense of humor that even I don't get sometimes that makes the name Evilnurse seem tame in comparison. Your nick doesn't bother me at all. I think it's quite clever in fact. As to changing your nick, I have considered changing mine several times, even thought of getting a brand new one, although I have no idea what I would use instead, so I guess I'm stuck with the one I have.

Babyruth - So you're a nurse are you? I see....... "That explains alot", he says, raising and lowering his eyebrows in a sinister manner, evil grin on his face...................

Oregonfire - The degree of thought you have put into your issues with your difficult student speak volumes. Your concern, and your effort to do a good and fair job, your willingness to rethink your position, your eagerness to be fair and thorough are all evidence of your dedication to your job, and your tenacious efforts to be a good teacher. (please don't grade my last sentence... I know what a runon sentence is LOL)

As you have described your situation, this kid made a point of antagonizing you, and "pushing your buttons", and he knew it. You have reacted in a very human way to his efforts, and have tried to use his behavior as an opportunity to teach him some things outside the boundaries of the original lesson plan and class objective. His actions have caused you to doubt yourself to a degree, yet you have continually pushed yourself back in the direction of your role as "teacher", and you have done a better job because of it. We learn the most from our difficulties and challenges, and yes, even many time from our failures. I'm not saying you failed here, in fact, just the opposite. By refusing to give this student a high grade for being clever and argumentative rather than for being intelligent and original, you have in a sense regained the upper hand, and have done so well within the bounds of your respective roles of student and teacher. I admire what you have done.

I also believe gift certificates can be a quite appropriate gift. Of course they CAN be a copout, but they are not automatically so. I've both given and received many gift certificates over the years. If you give someone a gift certificate to somewhere or something for which they are completely not interested, then it is a bad gift. But if you give one that you know they will want to use willingly and happily, then it is a marvelous gift. For example, I've received many gift certificates to Tower Records for many years because people know I want CD's but don't always know exactly what to get me. Instead of buying me a CD I don't like, or one I will never listen to, this allows me to buy things I actually want, and to use at a later date if I so choose. I have been given, and have used countless Tower gift certificates for many years, and have gone to Tower and spent my own money many times too. But in 1997 I was given a gift certificate that sat in a drawer unused for a very long time. For some reason I never pulled it out and used it, even though I knew it was there. It was even a running joke.... "Have you used your gift certificate yet? No? Why not?" Just a couple of months ago, I finally took that gift certificate and used it, proudly and happily. And I was pleased to have the opportunity to use it, because there isn't much other money available for things like CD's these days.

As I said in response to your post which began this thread, the fact that you're making a gift at all is what is important. Gifts are not an entitlement. They are a gesture of kindness. I believe someone who receives a gift certificate and scoffs at it, believing they are somehow deserving of an actual "gift" are missing the point entirely.

Oregonfire

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 10:18 am Click here to edit this post
Thanks Mr. Weiner Dog! Your input and support are much appreciated.

Sunshinemiss

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 02:35 pm Click here to edit this post
Ok, i have a submission for Ms. Manners. This was a horribly uncomfortable situation I found myself in awhile ago, and would like input on how others would have handled it.

My (then) Husband's grandparents lived with his parents, as they were very elderly and frail- 90 and 91 respectively. Neither could see well (generally shapes only) but they were still "all there" and wonderful folks. We would try to get over there to visit them at least twice a week as they were home alone all day...so. One day I went walking into the kitchen and Gramma and Grampa were sitting at the kitchen table, just talking and snacking on some cookies the in-laws had left out for them. The problem was- the cookies were crawling with ANTS!!!! ARGH!!! Their eyesight was not good enough to see them- I tried every way I could to get those cookies away from them (tried suggesting I could cook them something "more nourishing", that they looked stale, offered to read to the from the Bible, and so on) but they are very set in their ways and would NOT agree to any of my rather frantic attempts to distract them from the cookies. I couldn't bring myself to tell them the real reason- I felt it might shame them, or throw Gramma into a tizzy, and used the rational to myself that there were only a few cookies left and they had already consumed most of them..

I feel badly even now just writing this. I really, really tried to take them away- and am horrified even in retrospect that I was not able to do so.

So, should I have told them the truth? Or risked their ire by just saying "Thats enough" and taking them away like they were toddlers? It has bothered me a LOT since then.

I never told anybody either. You guys are the first to know.

Awful situation, eh? How would YOU have handled it?

Moondance

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 02:50 pm Click here to edit this post
You could have pulled, I call it a "I Love Lucy' and spilled a drink all over the plate of cookies... and said ooppps, sorry!

I would have said something though:)... I would have just said Oh my I just saw a bug crawl over the cookies or just came out with the truth... truth usually is the best bet :)

Buttercup

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 04:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Moondance has some great suggestions, though I can see how it might have been difficult to think of those things at the time, Sunshinemiss, as you obviously were horrified of what you saw!

On the other hand, Sunshinemiss, ants are good for nutrition too! At least that is what my grandfather told me

Seriously, I am not trying to make fun of the situation. But growing up in Norway with a grandfather who always was hiking or skiing in the mountains and elsewhere, I did learn that he occasionally would fry up some ants

My grandfather is eightysomething today and still quite the mountain goat. He kicked mine and my mother's behinds when I took him hiking in Squaw Valley at Lake Tahoe a couple of years ago--up to the top he went! Coming down he was just like a kid skipping and jumping from rock to rock and across the creeks. So my guess is that those ants did more good than harm :) (This was his first trip out of Norway by the way--he'd never even been on an airplane before.)

Please stop beating yourself up over this, Sunshinemiss! I understand that you are feeling some guilt, but the two were obviously not hurt physically, nor emotionally over this. They were happy being together, and probably enjoying your company as well :)

<Buttercup can tell that Sunshinemiss has a good >

Magikearth

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:05 pm Click here to edit this post
This is the first time checking into this thread and I think its a great idea to have an area for advice sharing.
That said,I think Buttercup shows alot of heart with her post!
Its so easy to say,"I should have done this or that..."
I work part-time in a clinic and we have a motto around here- "Don't Should On Yourself!"

Magikearth

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:31 pm Click here to edit this post
Moondance-Your idea from "I Love Lucy" seems pretty cool! I just have a hard time remembering these kinds of things!

Soeur

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:50 pm Click here to edit this post
I did a bit of research online and discovered that ants are really very tasty. The grandparents came to no harm, Sunshine.

"Ants are, for the most, part one of the best bug feasts. The formic acid pretty much disappears when they are boiled. Black ants eaten raw have a semi sweet flavor. Sorta like crunchy raw sugar with legs. We use them to sweeten ephedra tea."

taken from the site <http://www.survival.com/bug.htm>

"Throughout the history of mankind, eating insects has actually been a common idea. In the United States, the population has been rather guarded, however, of utilizing this valuable commodity. This causes some amusement when one considers that honey is a common product, but actually has been regurgitated by insects in its production. Parts of insects are consumed by humans more commonly than generally expected. It is impossible to perfectly eliminate all forms of insects when harvesting and processing some crops, thus allowances are set in the United States by the Food and Drug Administration to permit certain numbers of insects or their parts in processed foods. As one would expect, when insects are eaten (in other parts of the world) they are usually those that may be gathered in large numbers. Examples are social insects, such as ants, and especially termites, and locusts that migrate in hordes of millions of individuals. Some human societies actually utilize insects as a major source of protein."

taken from the site <http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/buginfo/inasfood.htm>

BABES

Moondance

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 05:51 pm Click here to edit this post
Lucy never did that exact thing but when in doubt to something fun and crazy to get yourself out of a situation :) (I call it a 'I Love Lucy' Moment)

I usually don't have to think about it because I am a clutz and it just happens :)

Spygirl

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 06:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Oh GREAT Sis! I may never eat processed food again! LOL

This reminds me of the time when I learned what hot dogs were made of......

Llkoolaid

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 06:45 pm Click here to edit this post
I think it is best that you didn't tell them, for me it would be better to eat a cookie that an ant crawled on rather than have attention drawn to the fact that I had lost my independence because of poor eyesight and had to be looked after. I am sure they would have been flustered and embarassed. Their dignity is important and I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about, you tried to get them away and couldn't , so they got to keep the cookies and their self respect.

Sunshinemiss

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 12:04 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks all for your support and comments. It was an awful and awkward situation, and if nothing else I feel better for having shared it.

You guys rule!

Mssilhouette

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 12:23 pm Click here to edit this post
Dear Ms Manners/Abby:

During this holiday season, I am wondering what is the correct procedure for giving or not giving of gift to co-workers/bosses.

I will explain, my boss gives me a gift every year but I do not return the favor. The first year at work I did not expect a gift and was surprised to recieve one. I did give a thank you card instead. Should I continue that practice or simply buckle down and actually give a present?

It should be noted that I always apperciate the effort he goes through but I never had made it a practice to give gifts to those I work with.

Jeep

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 01:32 pm Click here to edit this post
Mssilhouette - I, too, have received very nice gifts from the corporte president every year and I have never returned the favor. I now have a very nice set of Lenox china and he adds to it every year. We joke that he'll have to start on the silver soon. I always send a nice thank you note.

I could never afford the kind of gifts he gives, but thru the year I do more than enough extra work for him. I've saved many of his clients that would have left our agency otherwise. But because he is nice about the gifts, I don't mind going the extra mile and he knows it. I work for the corporation and not him personally.

And just for the record - no hanky-panky. Our office is like one big family of 35.

I also do not participate in the employee gift exchange. Instead, I send everyone a funny type Christmas card signed "the card fairy". It's been 3 years now and they suspect, but still haven't determined it's really me yet. Maybe they'll wise up this year.

Car54

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 01:39 pm Click here to edit this post
MisS, this is always a bit awkward. Could you perhaps bring some sort of treat to the office- cookies or something as a gesture? I too am really uncomfortable with this sort of situation, and I usually bring a plate of homemade cookies to share for the office during the season.

At my current job they do something I do enjoy- instead of a gift exchange here, we get a list of children from one of the local churches, and each of us buys gifts for that child. I don't have much family, and no kids, so I take great pleasure in this. None of us really needs anything ourselves, but this is a nice thing we all share. The church comes and picks up the gifts and distributes them for us at their Christmas party. This has become my favorite thing about the holiday. This year I have a 5 year old girl to buy for! Look out Barbie aisle- here I come!

Max

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 02:13 pm Click here to edit this post
In my philosophy, gifts should be given when you WANT to give them, not because you feel OBLIGATED to give them in return for receiving them. In this view, your boss wanted to give you something. The appropriate response is to say thank you. If you choose to give something to your boss, it should be because you want to, not because you received or expect to receive something.

This is not something that comes naturally to most folks (even me), but it sure does cut down on holiday stress!

I give gifts to the people who work for me and to my boss (and a few other co-workers who are also friends) because I want to. I don't have any expectations of receiving something in return. To my mind, my employees give me gifts all year long by making me look good with the wonderful quality of work they produce. :)

Usually, I give something small, usually something I've made. This year, they are getting cookie mixes in canning jars with hand decorated tops and the recipe attached. I'll probably add a simple hand-made ornament to go along with it and definitely a card that thanks them for the wonderful work they do.

The office where I work has around 200 employees, so there is no general gift exchange. We do have a toy drive to benefit a local children's hospital and a food drive benefiting the local food bank. As Car54 said, none of us really needs anything (want does not equal need :)) and it's nice to provide a way for folks to easily give to others.

Karuuna

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 02:58 pm Click here to edit this post
Being a boss myself, I say "bring on the gifts!" Just kidding. I've made it clear to my employees that I have more than I need and the best gift they can give me is to do something for someone who needs it more.

And I set the example by doing the same. Every year, I do something charitable in their name. Some years I've asked them to provide the name of their favorite charity, and then I give them a check to hand-deliver or mail to that charity. This year, all the donations went to Heifer.org (thanks OI!), and we sat around at the last staff meeting deciding which animals to purchase. Some of the employees put their allotted amounts together, so they could purchase a whole animal. Funny how they all insisted nobody was purchasing the back half of those animals.

None of that answers your question, I know. But I think the other folks who posted above did a great job of that. :)