Archive through April 13, 2001

The ClubHouse: Archive: Can you fall in love on the net?: Archive through April 13, 2001

Grooch

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 12:45 pm Click here to edit this post
Fruitbat, I'm trying to do a post about it on the survivor board. Give me about 15 minutes.

Fruitbat

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 12:50 pm Click here to edit this post
oh goody

Noslonna

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 01:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Hmmm... interesting mothering technique Kearie. I would not tie up my daughter so she could not say something. Is that how you do it?

Lancecrossfire

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 01:22 pm Click here to edit this post
Someone get me a referee's shirt!

That was said in an attempt to lighten things up. If you don't wish for them to be lighter, let me know and I'll leave you two alone.

Kearie

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 06:29 pm Click here to edit this post
I have no need to do that with my daughter because she respects the emotions of others.

Emotions aren't right or wrong, but treating them with the immaturity Lala showed does deserve something other than her 'mommies' defense.

Tossing Lance his Black and white shirt. :)

Lafatme

Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:01 pm Click here to edit this post
nos, i didn't know who you were addressing but i wasn't paranoid, just a bit annoyed.

life is hard enough and we all try to do what's right. i have thought and prayed over this and there's no doubt in my mind that it's right.

i was simply saying that i certainly don't need validation of my actions or emotions for them to be true and right. i especially don't need it from people who aren't involved and don't know me, or kearie.

we're happy and appreciate the good wishes of those who have offered them, it's always nice to hear. but to those who disagree, fine, disagree.

it doesn't change anything so what does it matter anyway?

people who actually know us, and have seen us together, understand. that's all that matters.

lava, i'll pass on gagging you but thanks for the offer. next time i have a serious decision to make i'll be sure to check with you for approval first. i didn't get the memo that you were in charge of my life now, sorry.

Flint

Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 06:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Well, this was an interesting theoretical thread until some people started taking it personally.

Whether general statements or comments were meant to point towards someone, whether it is you (Kearie and Lafatme) or someone you know, by addressing them you just ask for more of the same. Unless someone knew you, and the situation, it would have just been what it looked like, general comments which were in line with the things being discussed. Instead, you air your laundry in public, and make a post the falls into the category of way too much information. Plus it opens the door for it all to be discussed publicly.

I mean seriously, all you REALLY had to say, IF anything, was that you met a great guy/gal on the net and hope/feel things will work out. People REALLY didn't need to know the minutiae of the relationship. Most people probably didn't want to know. I know I am in the didn't want to know category. Some people are going to have no problem with what you said and give you support, some won't and will call you on it. By posting of your affairs publicly you are basically asking for comment on it. IF you do post it, as you did, then take your lumps.

Honestly, I just don't see why some people feel the need to post so much of their private life on the net. If memory serves me, this also isn't the first time you have felt the need to divulge your personal life in detail on the net, and the last time offense was taken by you when, surprise surprise, people commented on your "revelations". Which begs the question, why would you do it again? (Which I ask as a rhetorical question, I don't really want to know more about your personal life, or reasoning.) This thread is supposed to be about the idea of falling in love on the net, and not your personal thread, or anyone elses.

Now lets get back to the discussion. :)

Oops almost forgot. Blah blah blah....

My 2 cents.

Lafatme

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 12:25 am Click here to edit this post
flint,

i guess you're right. it's just that we were here a lot back then and spent many hrs a day with the folks here, so we thought of them as friends.

when you have good news you want to share it with friends. i mistakenly thought that people here would be excited since it happened here-i was wrong.

i would have been excited if it happened to two other people here but i guess that's just me.

i don't divulge my personal life here too much. this didn't seem to be personal as much as it seemed to be news on the board-i was wrong.

evidently it has nothing to do with this board at all, sorry for the inconvenience to all.

Lalavoom

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:21 am Click here to edit this post
Gag me and tie me up? Who is the immature one now? "..i didn't get the memo that you were in charge of my life now, sorry." ?????? PLeeeeeeeeeeeeese! You may be kinky, but mature? Now, now kids I was only joking around. I didn't get that memo either and I certainly don't want to be in charge of your life. That sounds like a little too much "right and true emotion" for me!

I have MANY things to say about the type of situation you are in and about the defensive stance you take whenever anyone disagrees with what you are doing. But I see now that there really is no point. No matter how reasonable or valid my arguments might be, you will argue against them like a couple of brainwashed cult members.

I am not sorry that I have so obviously offended you both. Even if it wasn't intentional. Generally speaking though, I am sorry when innocent little girls are dragged along behind their parent's emotional roller coaster rides. And it is a ride. That is all it is. Rides end. Rides end and emotions change. This is why when you have kids, it is unfair to them to base your actions on emotions rather than on basic principles of morality. It is bad and inconsistent parenting plain and simple. Parents teach by example whether they realize it or not. A young girl sees her mother bouncing from one man to another. What do you think will happen? EVEN when the young girl is TOLD to respect her mother's selfish "emotions". Of course I am speaking in a general manner.

*any resemblance to real persons or events is purely coincidental*

BTW... All reasonable and valid points Flint.

Maire

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:27 am Click here to edit this post
The thing about a discussion board is there are people who agree on one subject or view with one another, and yet disagree on another. Don't we all make decisions here all the time to agree to disagree, whether consciously or not? We wouldn't have very interesting discussions if we all had the same views. I believe in looking at something from all possible angles. That is how we learn about different things, especially people's ideas.

Well I want to say that I disagree with Flint on this issue, but only as it is just my opinion that causes me to, just as he has his own opinion, and I respect his opinion. (I just don't agree with him for a change.) :)

Laf and Kearie, I have really enjoyed hearing about your meeting and falling in love here on this board. But alas, I'm just a hopeless romantic. Your story has touched my heart. Your sharing has not inconvenienced me in the least.

Lalavoom

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:45 am Click here to edit this post
You weren't wrong about people being excited for you Laf. From what I've read you've had many congratulations and pats on the back. Way to go! You bagged a married woman with a child no less!

It wasn't two other people. It was four other people. I'm sure two of the four weren't as excited as the other two.

If you don't think this is a "personal" story and only "news" for some board on the internet, I'd hate to see what you considered personal.

AND it evidently does have something to do with the board since you and your "true love" so freely broadcasted it for all to see and know. I don't think you "inconvenienced" anyone. You just gave people a good read.
THANKS FOR THE LAF

Lalavoom

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:54 am Click here to edit this post
See Laf?
There you go. Maire wasn't inconvenienced in the least. You must be very happy for the validation. Maire. You are very sweet.

Maire

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 02:10 am Click here to edit this post
I sense that was a snide remark.
If not, then okay.

Lalavoom

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 02:17 am Click here to edit this post
Not at all.
(Now nobody is going to take me as sincere when I am being sincere!) LOL
No, really. I thought that was a very sweet thing for you to say to Laf and Kearie! Just because I don't happen to agree with everybody's opinion on this doesn't mean I don't recognize sweetness when I see it.

Kearie

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 08:51 am Click here to edit this post
I certainly don't feel as though I have been defensive about my situation. I have been honest, with all of you on the board, with my daughter and with my husband.

I agree that my actions concerning my relationship to Laf have been wrong...considering the fact that I am married. I never expected any of this to happen when we became internet friends.

I was wrong to let the relationship go so far...but I did and I am living with the choices I made.

I have cried numerous tears concerning all this...I'm sure you have no idea how I hurt in all this, and I'm sure you you don't care.

Had my daughter any reservations about me leaving my husband and moving to California I wouldn't have done so. She is first in my life...ALWAYS.
She is excited about moving and thinks Laf is a great guy.

Sorry for airing more personal info Flint. You may choose not to read it. Hiding from others judgements is not my way. The Game gave an opportunity to get personal. Many threads on this board contain information on our personal lives. Perhaps you belong on a board that discusses cars or computers rather than opinions and personal information.

I think most individuals who have a problem with Laf and I discussing our relationship are judgemental and moralistic.

I realize there are people who I am hurting in my decision to be with Laf...my parents, my husband, my in-laws and myself. Though they all may be hurt, they all understand, love me and forgive me.

Bottom line, I am happy with Tom...my future is with Tom, and I hoped that my friends on line could be happy for me. (My friends are) :)

For the rest of you who feel it necessary to condemn, judge and spew verbal assults...I wish I was half as perfect as you.

Even though I'm not...at least I'm happy.

Kearie

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 09:11 am Click here to edit this post
flint---read through the archives of this thread and you will see that Laf and I did join this discussion thread and spoke in general terms. Our relationship was brought up in this thread by another individual who was happy for us.

Just wanted to point that out.

Max

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 09:19 am Click here to edit this post
Back to generic conversation on this topic:

I have friends who met first via a matchmaking service on the web, corresponded for a long time via email and chat, then met and corresponded via phone, then started visiting each other in person, and are now very happily married. Both were searching for love and happened to find it through the conduit the internet provided.

I also have a friend who discovered her husband was corresponding with several different women via the web. Not just corresponding, he was having cybersex with them. That was bad enough, but then she found email indicating he was making arrangements to meet these women in person while travelling on business. They went to counseling and he claimed to mend his ways, only for her to find several months later some more email indicating the behaviour was continuing. The marriage ended. He shacked up with the main gal pal he'd found (who left her husband for him) and eventually married her. There are elementary-age kids on both sides of the equation. Not a pretty picture. Was he "in love" and following his heart or just a scum bag? Knowing the parties involved, there are two scum bags--him and the chic he ended up with. Unfortunately, this behavior was consistent with other things in both their lives--like cheating on income taxes, lying to banks to mortgage homes beyond their worth, lying to bankruptcy courts to try and escape obligations when they really had plenty of money coming in, etc.

I guess the thing is this: The web gives you an opportunity to expand your normal behaviour patterns. If you are, at the core, an honest person, the web gives you ways to communicate and expand on that base. If you are dishonest and insincere, it gives you a tremendously large platform for taking advantage of people.

Disclaimer: My comments above ARE NOT pointed directly or indirectly to anyone on this board. If you think they apply to you, that is YOUR racket, not mine.

Mishamisha

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 09:29 am Click here to edit this post
Max, I like your disclaimer. I fully expect to see it quoted here in the future. :)

Maire

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 11:37 am Click here to edit this post
Lala, thanks for the clarification. :)

Flint

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 12:10 pm Click here to edit this post
Sounds sort of like another couple I knew through the LPMud. They almost divorced a few times because he was having cyber-affairs. Although he never actually met any of the women IRL. The fact he was stroking keys with another woman was enough to set his wife off. Then again, who oculd blame her?


Disclaimer: My comments above ARE NOT pointed directly or indirectly to anyone on this board. If you think they apply to you, that is YOUR racket, not mine. (Copyright Max 2001)

Kearie

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 12:41 pm Click here to edit this post
Love the disclaimer Max. And I do agree with your post.

I understand that there are different types as you suggested. Some are those who consistantly cheat INR and on the net and those that legitimately find someone...looking or not.

I would like to point out that some people's spouse don't mind that their other half has cyber sex. I know of a particular person who liked it when his wife had cyber sex. He said she was ready for the real thing when he got home.

Is this asking for trouble or what?
Why would someone allow that, or do that if the relationship was good in the first place.

If a spouse condones it, does it make it okay?

Disclaimer by Max

Max

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:10 pm Click here to edit this post
There are lots of people in relationships that I don't understand. There's a very active swinger lifestyle group in the U.S. with consensual spouse-swapping at very organized safe-sex parties. There are active S&M organizations with very defined guidelines/rules of behaviour for participants. The list could go on and on.

Just 'cause I don't want anything to do with that kind of behaviour doesn't necessarily make it 'wrong.' I do, however, have problems with this stuff when there are kids involved because I believe it causes trauma to them that ends up costing society as a whole later on.

Basically, whatever two (or more, I suppose) consenting ADULTS do where there are no children to be effected, is between them. I really don't want to know about it. When it starts effecting me or effecting children who have no choice but to be in the situation, then I have a problem.

For example, when I was married or if I was in a relationship, I don't have a problem with my guy going to a strip club now and then. Of course, he has to be okay with me going to see male strippers occasionally, too, if I want. If it became a regular occurance to the point of either of us feeling "driven" to go to a strip club, then it would be a cause for concern. Otherwise, an occasional night of lecherous looking is fine with me. Heck it can spice thins up at home afterwards! :)

All that aside, when someone feels the need to put their personal behaviours in my face and ask my opinion, I'm more than happy to give it. I've told several people over the years things that have ended our friendships at the time and that was just fine with me.

Example 1: A college roommate was dating a married man. He told her it was okay because he and his wife had "an understanding." As long as he didn't smoke weed (hey, it was the 70s), she didn't care what he did. I told my roommate that was a bunch of hooey to get in her pants and that unless she had heard that directly from the wife, she was a fool to believe it. I also told her he was not welcome in the house (lease was in my name) because I refused to be caught in the middle of such deplorable behaviour. End of friendship. Fine with me. Years later, I ran into her and she said I had been right.

Example 2: Many years later, had a friend who was dating a guy who had lived with, but never married, a woman for 12 years. Had 2 kids with her and was virtual dad to her oldest from another relationship. He kept saying he was going to leave her, but that he couldn't right now because he was afraid she'd take the kids away from him forever. Kept my friend on the side in secret for a long time. She cried to me about the wait and every time she did, I told her to tell him to hit the highway until he was "free" to pursue a real relationship with her. She wouldn't. Buh-bye friendship. Don't know what happened,but at least I didn't have the stress anymore.

Example 3: A friend's husband worked in the same office as me. I had noticed his usual quiet self had changed and he was spending lots of time with another co-worker. One day, my phone rang and it was my friend saying they were separating. I said, "It wouldn't have anything to do with S, would it?" Of course, it did--he was fooling around with this gal almost half his age. I didn't know S very well, but when she found out I knew what was happening, she wanted to talk with me. We took a walk and she asked me what I thought. Said how she was "in love" and it was "so real" and "so special" and she hoped I would understand. I asked her lots of questions to try and break through the dumb facade she was wearing about how special this thing was. Bottom line, I told her if this was really love, then she deserved better treatment. She deserved to be loved by a man who was free to commit to her. If this guy was it, then self-respect should lead her to tell him to get a divorce, get established on his own, and in about 6 months come see if she was atill available. That sorta shocked her. Outcome? After about another month, the affair broke up, she took a transfer out of state, my friend and her husband went to a lot of counseling and salvaged the relationship. Oh, my friend got a GORGEOUS saphire and platinum "I'm sorry" ring out of the deal, too. :)

Sorry this is so long. I'll climb off my soap box now.


Disclaimer: My comments above ARE NOT pointed directly or indirectly to anyone on this board. If you think they apply to you, that is YOUR racket, not mine.

Bijoux

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 01:29 pm Click here to edit this post
Good post Max. Gotta say I strongly agree with the statement: self-respect should lead her to tell him to get a divorce, get established on his own, and in about 6 months come see if she was atill available. If he really cared he would make sure he resolved one relationship before starting another.


Disclaimer: My comments above ARE NOT pointed directly or indirectly to anyone on this board. If you think they apply to you, that is YOUR racket, not mine. (copyright Max 2001)

Lafatme

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 08:13 pm Click here to edit this post
lava,

i didn't "bag" anyone. your post to that effect offends me.

i have more real concern for kearie's daughter in my little finger than you could ever have, so don't give me that bs.

ps: i'm not in a cult either, although your post on that subject may have been generic.

Lalavoom

Friday, April 13, 2001 - 09:41 pm Click here to edit this post
Poor Lafatme. Still doesn't get it. You should stop talking to LAVA because LAVA is indeed laughing at you.

Don't you remember when Kearie, your very own true love, said to you and I quote: "As adults, reading and responding to different posts, can't we realize that most things said are opinions?

I think we should be able to tell the difference between fact and opinion w/o having to always say IMP. "

Kearie, that was an excellent point. At least Kearie knows when to stop. Kearie, I think you should Rethink your little plan. You are better than this. A little messed up perhaps, but you will figure it out and do the right thing in the end. I think that you are being taken advantage of and it is a shame. A CRYING LAFATME SHAME.

This is exactly why, even though you apparently CAN fall in love on the net, you should choose not to fall in love on the net. And falling in love is a choice. This is not fact. This is opinion. Hopefully you recognize THAT fact by now.