What Does It Take To Be A Man?

The ClubHouse: General Discussions - Jan -Apr. 2001: April: What Does It Take To Be A Man?

Guruchaz

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 01:41 pm Click here to edit this post

Aside from the obvious, in your opinion, what makes a man a man/gentleman?

Gail

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:04 pm Click here to edit this post

Guru - since in the "woman" thread you said the answer is whatever we interpret the question to be, I will assume that goes in this thread as well.

I am going to base my answer on what do I think is the difference between a boy (for lack of a better word) and a man. Please . . . this is just my opinion.

Not sure if i can explain it very well or not. It is not an age thing nor a physical thing. You just don't wake up with hair on your body and say you are a man. It's also not about turning 21 or anything like that.

It is more of achieving a certain confidence in yourself that affects the way you behave and the way you present yourself in certain situations. A man doesn't feel like he has anything to prove.

A boy would have no problem letting anger get the best of him with his wife in the car and racing down the road trying to chase down another car because they cut him off. A man knows protection of his wife and family is the most important thing there is - he would drop back in traffic.

A man looks ahead to the future - taking care of his family is number one. A boy lives in the present - buying a big screen tv is more important then making the house payment.

In most situations, a man can fix a problem. (nobody has all the answers) He may not know how to fix a plumbing problem but he can pick up the phone and call a plumber.

To drone on a little more -

In my experience in relationships, a boy will not worry if there is no money for the rent/utilities. There is more of a "Don't worry, be happy" mentality.

To me, when a woman is living with worry - be it money, the kids, the future, the car breaking down, etc - she is either living with a boy or alone. When she is living with a man, she may have worries and problems but she has a partner to help shoulder the burden.

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:12 pm Click here to edit this post

At the risk of being flailed by others, I'll go out on a limb and provide my opinion on this.

I think 50 years ago an answer might look different. 50 years ago, the man went to work the woman stayed home. (at least much more frequently than now) Guys went out and played sports, women had bridge parties. (again, this was much more delineated then) Today, we find that either gender can take on any given role. I think there are still situations where one gender may dominate in an area more than another. That is certainly changing though.

I provide all this opinion because my opinion about my answer is that for the most part, I think the answer is about the same for either gender. Of course I'm thinking in terms of positive results for either. Having success in the job, success at home, success with kids--such things as that.

It helps to have a large does of functioning responsibility. Taking ownership of what you say and what you do in all aspects of your life.

It helps to have either a vision of where you want to get to (in any given area--work, home, recreation) and a thought process to get from point to point.

It helps to have some level of drive or desire. you have to want something before you will go out and try to get it.

it helps to be respectful of yourself and of others around you. In a job, that would be your boss, the people who work with you, and the people who work under you. It also helps to have respect for the bigger picture of what your company does. In non-work life, it helps to be respectful of your partner of you have one, of your friends, and really of all people you interact with. Yes, respect is earned, although if you don't start by being disrespectful, people are more likely to show you behavior to gain your respect.

It helps to believe in yourself. There is something to be said for the concept that if you don't believe in yourself, why should anyone else.

It helps to try as much as possible to understand the views of others. To listen to what they have to say, and to take into consideration their points of view.

It helps to be honest. Honesty provides a level of credibility to everything you say and do.

It helps to make adjustments throughout life for others. Don't believe that only your way will work for everyone for everything. You shouldn't change who you are as a person--your core beliefs, although minor adjustments for a person or situation with allow for a better chance for everyone to get a little more out of life.

It helps to teach others. At the same time it also helps to learn from others who have something to teach. We all have different abilities. Sharing yours may someday make a difference to someone else. Learning from another may have the same affect on your life.

Don't take anything for granted. Not your job, not yourself, not your partner, not your kids, not your parents, and not your friends.

Be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Sometimes we end up being part of the problem, however once you step away from that and start going towards being a part of the solution, you are moving toward improvement.

It helps to gain wisdom over the course of your life. having all the tolls in the world at your finder tips is of lesser value if you don't know how to properly use them, and when is the best time to use them.

It helps to not have your greatest strengths also be your greatest weaknesses. (wisdom can help with that)

It helps to have a sense of humor. Laughing is sometimes important to do.

It helps to have a sense of humility. As humans we will be wrong. Even the best person in any given subject will make mistakes. the rest will just make more. It helps to realize this and be accepting of this in others.

It helps to realize that for the most part, you can't get something in life for nothing. Being a top notch athlete takes lost of practice. Being successful in a competitive business takes a big time commitment. Realize that doing one of these may take away from something else you want, or already may have. (i.e., my ex's father gave up 2 families to own a multi-national company the way he wanted it run). Check to make sure what you want is worth the price of what you might have to give up. Then take responsibility for making that choice and pay the price.

It helps to admit when you are wrong.

It helps if you give credit where credit is due.(this would include giving someone your trust or respect when they gave earned it)

It helps to both listen and hear what people say. Just physically hearing the words is not enough. You must also strive to comprehend the meaning.

It helps to not assume. If it isn't perfectly clear, ask. The only dumb question is a question you already know the answer to.

IMHO, if you can do things things, you greatly increase your opportunities at being a successful man (or woman).

Guru, is this the kind of approach to the question you were looking for, or where you looking for a different approach?

Ocean_Islands

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:12 pm Click here to edit this post

I'm not being flip, but I think this is true:

To me being a man is the ability to experience deeply. To bear pain and sorrow as well as health and joy. To find fulfillment in mundane tasks done for others. To find pleasure in simple experiences and cherish the highs in life. To nuture others. To understand and love even the unloveable. To feel real pride in all accomplishments, not just our own. The ability to share unconditionallly. To get angry and not destroy. To be strong when those around you cannot be. To hold things together and keep peace.

Women actively experience too, but a man's experience is often tied to the expectations of others specifially related to the actions of doing, whether that be for work, as a provider, athlete, father -- all these can run the gamut from intensely happy to tearful experience; or just plain industriousness. But the emphasis is on accomplishment, not selfhood, which is why being a man can be so challenging. You're not accepted by just being yourself. You have to do something to earn respect.

There is something wonderful about doing things and getting things accomplished. It is one of the things that makes us men.

Ocean_Islands

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:17 pm Click here to edit this post

This is very interesting Gail:

You wrote, "It is more of achieving a certain confidence in yourself that affects the way you behave and the way you present yourself in certain situations. A man doesn't feel like he has anything to prove.

"A boy would have no problem letting anger get the best of him with his wife in the car and racing down the road trying to chase down another car because they cut him off. A man knows protection of his wife and family is the most important thing there is - he would drop back in traffic."

I'm not criticising or anything, but do you think someone who lacks confidence is less than a man? It appears so.

The boy you mention would be letting his anger get the best of him, and the man not. But they are both proving something. The boy is proving that he can't be 'had' -- and the man is proving that he can protect his family. So the statement 'a man doesn't feel the need to prove anything' would not seem to be true.

Guruchaz

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:25 pm Click here to edit this post

These are all the types of answers I was hoping to generate. Please continue.

Noslonna

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:30 pm Click here to edit this post

lol Ocean. I knew as I typed that a man would feel a connection as well. We are not so different afterall.

Gail

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 05:31 pm Click here to edit this post

Ocean - not sure what you are saying exactly. I said "a certain confidence" - I mean a certain confidence that actually can be very understated. He knows it is there - the people around him know it. He doesn't have to shout it out - he doesn't have to prove it because those around him already know it. Maybe they know it from being around him in the past, maybe it is just something they feel. That confidence (for lack of a better word) helps people in his care feel protected.

About confidence . . maybe it is not the confidence a man has in himself but the confidence others have in him that defines him. I guess that sometimes makes him a leader.

Ocean: "I'm not criticising or anything, but do you think someone who lacks confidence is less than a man? It appears so. "

I very confident in certain areas of my life - are you saying that makes me more of a man? It appears so. (just kidding)

(I had trouble forming my thoughts earlier in my first post here - i was waiting for a call to pick up my dogs from groomers so felt a bit rushed.)

Ocean - this scenario I described earlier about the boy in the car . . . The car was one of those tiny Honday Civics, the place - Charleston, SC, the time - about 1982, the wife in the car was me. 3 guys in a car much bigger then ours cut into our lane on the cooper river bridge - no big deal but my husband at the time got mad and decided he was going to run them down. (in a honda cvcc?) he was going 80 mph to catch them. There were also other cars on the road that had nothing to do with this. He caught up with them alright - they tried to run us off the road - fortunately - the rails of the bridge kept us from going off the road and crashing.

What did he prove that day? That he could scare the shit out of me? Yep. That he didn't mind risking my life and his and possibly others on the road because someone cut him off in traffic? Yep. I would have had a lot more respect for him if instead of chasing them down, he had looked at me and said, "Those guys seem like assholes, I will drop back and give them some space" It was very nearly a month before I would get back in the car with him and I never, ever felt safe with him again. It was the most unmanly thing I ever saw him do.

Noslonna

Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 06:21 pm Click here to edit this post

A man... strong of course. Provider, protecter and approchable. A person you can connect with. Someone who can listen as well as act. A real man has the good qualities of woman and the guts to go out on a limb and say he doesn't know everything. A MAN is someone that understands his role as leader and leads by example... a real man can let go and let a woman do something if she knows more.

Guruchaz

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 07:51 am Click here to edit this post

Anyone else want to add to this? There was a few more I was hoping to hear from, but I'm not twisting anyone's arm.

Digilady

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:08 am Click here to edit this post

Hmmmm.

A sense of self-esteem. Confidence in himself, yet aware of his faults.

The ability to laugh - both at himself and life in general.

Must be able to care about others and their feelings, sometimes above his own.

Willing to give and take, and prefers giving.

Oooops - this all goes for women as well. Saved me responding to that thread.

Karuuna

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:17 pm Click here to edit this post

A man is a man when he has character. Not as in moralistic, but something more subtle. When he takes his relationships, projects and integrity seriously, and does not abandon them easily. When he knows himself well, yet continues to strive to know himself and others better, more deeply. When he has a concern not only for his own well-being, but for the happiness of those he knows, and even those he does not know. When he considers his actions in the light of all who will be effected by them. When he is so comfortable with himself, he can be the same whether by himself or surrounded by others. When he strives to do what he believes in, even when in the face of great adversity or personal suffering. When he has a whole range of emotions at his disposal, to choose to act on or not, depending on the circumstances. When his life's work is based more on its meaning to him and others, and less on the dollar amount on his paycheck. When he is humble yet confident, strong yet pliable, willing to make and admit mistakes, and not only forgive but embrace the humanness of others. When he can be a father, a friend, a lover, a husband and be reliable in all those roles.

He can be firm while being kind, can cry when it's appropriate, feel and express anger in helpful and appropriate ways. He can also be frail when he feels frail, and lean on someone else. He can admit to being human, to having insecurities and needs without expecting someone else to fix them.

And oh yeah, a real man doesn't feel threatened if the woman wants to drive.

Twiggyish

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 06:48 pm Click here to edit this post

I think a man with honor and a man who is trustworthy is worth his weight in gold.

Merlin

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 07:40 pm Click here to edit this post

Guru,
I dont see much that hasn't been already covered in the preceding posts. So consider this as a huge *ditto* on the above answers. I especially like digi's and karuuna's but everyone has very valid points.

Elitist

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 08:42 pm Click here to edit this post

Though most people know that real men don't eat quiche, I am willing to reveal some more secrets of what makes a real man:

A real man knows how to nod his head and say yes at the appropriate times while his wife/girlfriend is talking, even when watching the SuperBowl.

A real man can inhale deeply through his nose while clipping his nostril hair without crying.

A real man has a perfect sense of direction and can find his way anywhere without a map - though it may take him an extra day or two to get there.

A real man realizes that size doesn't really matter, because his is bigger than anyone elses anyway.

A real man can remember the baseball statistics for his favorite team for the last 50 years, but cannot remember his girlfriends birthday even if she calls him and reminds him the day before.

A real man always opens a door for a lady so he can check out her butt.

A real man only has one set of clothing - old t-shirt, ripped jeans, holey underwear, white socks, and a beat up pair of Nikes. All other clothing was bought for him by someone else.

A real man knows that his Johnson is there to please only one person - himself.

A real man has no problem killing and cleaning innocent animals, but cringes whenever a feminine hygiene commercial comes on the TV.

A real man does not answer any foo foo questions such as "What does it take to be a man".

Gail

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 08:48 pm Click here to edit this post

How about it Guru? Your turn. What does it take to be a man?

Guruchaz

Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:54 pm Click here to edit this post

At the risk of sounding "unmanly", I'm still defining these things within myself. My father and I had no such talks but I see the type of man he is in the fact that he provided for and protected his family. I don't ever recall him lying about anything either, especially to all of us as a family. For the longest time, that's all I had to go on. I never really gave it much thought until recently.

I suppose that was an internal reason for proposing the question: to get a collective response from those that have an outside view of what a man should be. I know I've definitely learned a lot from the responses.

I'm not trying to bow out of a conversation I started but I really need to think more on this. I don't have an answer to give but most of the responses I've seen seem very acceptable to the definition.

Norwican

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 07:49 am Click here to edit this post

A man can admit he is unsure of something.

A man can laugh at himself.

A man can deal with having a woman as his boss.

A man will feel no shame asking his wife what teams to pick for the office basketball pool because he knows she is much more knowlegable on the subject than he is.

Guruchaz

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:11 am Click here to edit this post

The phrases out of a book are nice, but what is your collective personal opinion?

Norwican

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:15 am Click here to edit this post

Mine weren't out of a book they are my personal opinions.

Digilady

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:44 am Click here to edit this post

Let me add honesty to my list. Integrity. A sense of gentleness.

Moderation in all things: temper, self indulgence and so on.

Again, this goes for women, too.

A friend is a friend. Male or female. (I dunno if this pertains to the thread, but.) All the traits I have listed are what I search for in people, in general.

What I hunt for in a man is a different story, and is not the question you're asking (I don't think.)

Max

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:51 am Click here to edit this post

I think it must be hard to be a man in today's society. Expectations used to be more clearly defined. Now, you never know what someone is expecting.

You have to be careful about what you say in all circumstances because you never know how someone is going to interpret a remark. You have to be careful what you do, because someone might see your actions as degrading, threatening, or suspicious. If you are a non-white man, things are even trickier.

As has been pointed out in other areas of the board, women are often afforded more latitude in what they can say and do than men are. If women call each other catty or b*tchy or whatever, it seems to be looked at as normal behavior. If a man said the same statement, he'd be called on the carpet by someone.

Of course, there are things that go the other way, too. For example, in business, if a woman is strong, determined, and outspoken, she can quickly be labeled a b*tch. If a man does the same behaviors, he's looked at as being strong and self-assured. If a woman gets angry, she's emotional. If a man does, he's doing what he should to make his point.

It would be lovely if we could remove the gender designations and just say what makes a person a genuine human being, but our brains just don't quite go there yet. :)

So, here are a few tidbits to add to the mix:

A man knows how to be strong and gentle, aggressive and meek, serious and silly, all in the right dosages.

A man appreciates an independent woman, recognizing that he can be her partner without being her competitor.

A man is not intimidated by a woman who makes more money than he does. He recognizes that she is worth her weight in gold and isn't being paid nearly that much anyway.

A man knows that turning 40 isn't the end of the world and doesn't necessitate obtaining a 20-something girlfriend, a hair transplant, and a tiny sports car he can hardly fit into. Instead, he recognizes that with age comes wisdom and confidence which women find sexy. If he has a family, he finds wonder and joy in them, despite the fact they drive him crazy occasionally.

Norwican

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 09:03 am Click here to edit this post

I remember being glad I was not a male at a very young age. It happened when I was at my first school dance and some guy came up and asked a girl to dance and was rejected. I mean come on it was just a dance and she said no in front of everyone... over the years I saw it happen time and time again... that must suck!

Sorry, I digress.

Twiggyish

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:42 am Click here to edit this post

Elitist, I am laughing at yours..lol So true!

Digilady

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 11:43 am Click here to edit this post

Well Jeeze. Again, I just thought of the perfect answer.

What does it take to be a man?

Ask Optics, of course.

<triple snark>

Twiggyish

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 02:50 pm Click here to edit this post

lol Digi!!!

Glass

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:16 pm Click here to edit this post

This is just slightly off subject...more about what traits we would like in a man.

BEDTIME PRAYER (for women)

Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray for a man, who's not a creep.
One who's handsome, smart and strong. He's not
afraid to admit when he's wrong.
One who thinks before he speaks. When he promises to call, he doesn't wait 6 weeks.
I pray that he is gainfully employed, won't lose his cool when he's annoyed.
Pulls out my chair & opens my door, massages my back & begs to do more.
Oh! Send me a man who will make love to my mind.
Knows just what to say when I ask "How fat is my
behind?"
One who'll make love till my body's a twitchin' He
brings ME a sandwich too, when he goes to the
kitchen!
I pray that this man will love me to no end, And
would never compare me with my best girlfriend.
Thank You in advance and now I'll just wait, for I
know You will send him before it's too late.

Amen

Soeur

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:18 pm Click here to edit this post

Off topic? I think not! Glass has nailed it.

Max

Monday, February 26, 2001 - 08:55 pm Click here to edit this post

Amen, indeed. :)

Just started reading a book called "Egalia's Daughters" by Gerd Brantenberg (translated from Norwegian). It was published in the 70s. The premise is that society is run by women ('wim' in the book) and men ("menwim") are the subservient gender. Wim can do anything they want--menwim can only hope to find a nice wom to provide fatherhood-protection. I'm just starting it, but it seems VERY interesting and thought-provoking.

Lafatme

Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 08:32 am Click here to edit this post

the original question was "what makes a man a man?" it was not "what traits should a man have?"

so i will answer the question guru posed both correctly and succinctly...A WOMAN MAKES A MAN A MAN.

so far i think gail has posted the best answer regarding how a man should act, but he acts that way because of a woman.

when a man finds a good woman he gains confidence in himself from her love for him, he desires to protect and defend her, he listens to her because he respects her, and learns what it means to really be a man and not just a boy.

men cannnot learn these things from other men. fathers and friends can teach us how to fish, throw a ball, fix a car, etc. but only a woman can teach us how to love, respect, adore, and cherish another human being-the essence of being a "real man."

most men won't listen or learn any of these things until they feel confident in themselves, and that doesn't happen as long as they're still looking for love.

knowing that the soulmate he's searched for is finally in his life, and loves him in spite of his shortcomings, allows a man to relax and take a deep breath, and to reassess the meaning of his life and the true value of love and commitment.

a man who has never been truly in love is a boy. it's that simple.

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 11:36 am Click here to edit this post
Honesty and a willingness to be yourself.

Norwican

Monday, April 16, 2001 - 08:01 am Click here to edit this post
Ocean, BINGO!