Archive through December 31, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: archive: Dogs (ARCHIVE): Archive through December 31, 2003

Herckleperckle

Friday, December 26, 2003 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd just like to explain my recommendation to Secretsmile.

I wanted to be with Jake for all the reasons Whoami (and others) listed--as I would for any person I loved, too. But . . . and this may be too graphic for some, when Jake received her injection, she looked straight at me and let out a high, long howl, which must have continued for a full minute. . . a minute that felt like an hour. "How could you do this to me?" she was asking, I believe.

I wouldn't want any dog I loved to die alone, but I also know I couldn't take another round of what I experienced with Jake.

Whoami

Friday, December 26, 2003 - 11:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh Herck. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I would hope that kind of reaction was very rare. I know that's never happened in our family. The beloved pet just went peacefully to sleep. I think if that happened to me, the memory of that howl would make my skin crawl. Maybe at that particular moment she really didn't understand. But I'd want to believe that once she went over to the Rainbow Bridge, she understood and was grateful. You did say she was very sick. And I'm quite sure you did everything you could for her.

Please don't feel like I was saying your recommendation was wrong. I just wanted to make sure another view was presented.

{{{{Herck}}}}

Secretsmile

Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 07:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you all for your support and sharing your stories of love. My vet informs me that he will give her a sedative while I am there, I can stay with her until she falls asleep, then they will take her to another room for the final shot. I think that it is a good way for me. I can stay for that part and know she will not awaken to be alone.

Right now we are just showering her with love and attention. She's slow but still not showing any signs of pain. I'm shocked at how little sparkle is left in her eyes though. It's surprising how much we count on them to lift our spirits each day.

My kidlets are home from college and I'm hoping that they will be back at school before the end comes.

Herckleperckle

Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 09:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Secret, that sounds like a wonderful plan. And one where you can depend on what to expect. Your vet is very considerate. I hope your kidlets are back in school, too, (but keep in mind that they may feel differently).

Whoami, thanks for your kind words. I didn't take your viewpoint as criticism at all! I really do agree with you that our pets deserve the same respect and love at the end that they gave devotedly and selflessly every single day of their lives. As you can understand, I wouldn't wish that kind of traumatic, lingering memory on anyone else. But it sounds like Secret's vet has a very sensitive approach worked out.

Egbok

Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 11:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I've just read through the posts with regards to Secret's painful dilemma with her beloved Cali. (((((Secret)))))

I've been there too Secret and I'll be there again someday. The Circle of Life is not easy to stand back and watch. I'll be thinking of you and your family. Cali is a beautiful pup and I would love to hear some stories about her when you are ready. Take care SS....

Catfat

Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 09:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
SS, your beautiful Cali looks so-o-o much like our dog Trixter, part Sheltie and part Border Collie. She can barely get around now, as two years ago she was hit by a UPS truck in our own driveway. Although she checked out fine at the time, she has been getting weaker and more crippled in her right hip. She is sleeping on my feet even as I type.
I hope you can get another dog like Cali, they are the smartest ever. I hope you can find one with white eyebrows!

Catfat

Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 09:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Did anyone here see the story about the shocking death of one of Queen Elizabeth's Corgi's?
It seems they were at Sandringham on Christmas day and Princess Anne brought her pit bulls with her. The Corgis bounded out to greet them and the oldest of the Queen's dogs was savagely torn to shreds by one of the pit bulls and had to be put down. This pit bull, a female, had a history of viciousness and had bitten two children in the park in London some time ago and was given a reprieve only because of royal ownership. The Queen and the Princess have not spoken since.
I think I have all my facts right, but if not I hope someone will correct me.
Anyway, I have not heard a follow-up to this story. Does anyone know more?

Herckleperckle

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow. I hadn't heard that story. I am no pit-bull fan, even though I admit any dog's behavior is a reflection of the owner's handling as much as it is a mark of a breed.

But, can't help it, I dislike pits because Herc almost died after a pit bull attack inside our own home. The whole story made the front page of our Wilmington, DE newspaper, The News Journal. Can't remember the exact date, but I think it was the spring of 1999.

My dh was walking Herc down our walkway when a neighbor's pit bull (didn't even know these people--who lived across the street, but a block over from us---or that they even had a dog, let alone a pit bull) jumped his 3-foot backyard fence and started running towards Herc.

My dh spotted the dog--and turned around immediately to get back inside the house with Herc. Unfortunately, as dh opened the front door, the pit bull reached our porch, latched onto the underside of Herc's neck and went hurtling inside the entranceway our our house, along with dh.

My dh tried everything to get the pit bull off Herc -- and to loosen its grip on Herc's neck, but nothing worked. Dh was on the floor, holding onto Herc. He worked his hand under Herc's neck and the pit bull's jaws to try to protect Herc. (Dh's hands got bitten as the pitbull attempted to take deeper and deeper bite holds into Herc's neck.)

My dd was home at the time, but didn't realize what was going on for a minute or two because she was on the phone in her room. When she heard the commotion, she came downs the stairs, grabbed one of our dining room chairs and hit the pit bull full force on his back, breaking the chair. But the pit bull never loosened his grip on Herc. Hysterical, she just began grabbing anything in sight and started hitting the pit bull on its nose, face, back, etc. Nothing worked. In desperation to save Herc's life, dh yelled to her to get a kitchen knife. When dd returned with the knife, dh told her to stab the dog, but dd just couldn't. So dh had to stab the pit bull over and over---in order to save Herc's life. The dog never released his jaws until he finally fell dead.

My dh went into shock and was rushed to the hospital by ambulance. My dd called me at work, shrieking so incoherently that despite not hearing much except dad killed somebody or something, I heard enough to understand that I needed to drive home as quickly as possible. (I was 5 minutes away and think I made it in 2!)

What I found was a dog that looked near death, a hysterical daughter, and blood everywhere--all over my curtains, rug, sofa, etc. Dh was gone in the ambulance, and the police animal control people, and pitbull owner had arrived.

The police were able to fill me in quickly about what had happened. I answered a couple of animal control questions as quickly, then rushed Herc to the vet, with my dd by my side. I left Herc in the vet's hands with dd, then rushed to hospital to find dh.

I am happy to report that, in time, with TLC, Herc came through surgery fine and recuperated without any long-term effects. (He does bark like crazy every time we are near a male pit bull now.) The horrible trauma took a short-term toll on both my dd and dh. They both needed counseling. Everyone is fine now.

Sorry, I know this doesn't answer your question, but it sparked me to unload this bad memory.

Whoami

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 03:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OMG what an awful story! I'm glad everyone came out of it ok. What did the pit's owner do/say?

We grew up with an Alpha dog who would light into one of the other dogs on occasion. She must have had some sort of bull in her (she looked more like a fox), cause she'd do that latch on and not let go thing too. We were all kids, but I can still remember vividly the growling, us girls all shrieking "Tinker" to the dog to make her stop. Some of us on the attacked dog, others on Tinker to pull them apart. We were babysitting my older sis's dog when Tinker lit into her, and the poor thing had to go get stitches (of all the attacks, that was thankfully the only one that got bad enough to need vet attention).

It affected little sis to the point that when her two dogs (unfortunatly both have since gone to the Rainbow Bridge) would get into it, she'd be right in the middle of it all pulling them apart. I know it affected me too, cause if the Boys even think of growling at each other, or start posturing at each other, I put a stop to it right away and send them to their separate corners.

Herckleperckle

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, evidently dh and the wife of the owner had a sorrowful but helpful exchange. The woman told him she never wanted a pit in the first place but her hubby had brought it home as a mate to their female pit. And that they now they had 10 pit puppies at home, too!!! Despite her sorrow in losing what she knew as a safe pet, she apologized for the incident and forgave my dh for having to kill their dog.

When I arrived on the scene, the wife was on my property but didn't say anything to me. She was in the process of giving her name, address, phone number to the animal control officer, who later shared that information with me. (She witnessed my emotional reaction to the scene and reunion with my daughter and Herc.) I overheard the animal control officer tell her that current laws would be applied, making it reasonable for her to assume she and her husband would receive a court summons about harboring and not controlling a dangerous dog.

My ds, who was living in Philadelphia at the time, came home at once. He was upset and angry--very angry for not being there to protect what originally was HIS dog, angry at the neighbors, angry at the cruelty of the attack. He calmed when given responsibility for helping to nurse Herc back to health after his surgery.

In a phonecall I made to the owner's home, I conversed with the wife, who reluctantly and quietly shared the carrier name of her homeowners policy. Her manner made me wonder about her husband.

As a result of the front page story (following other similar dog attacks over the years), the city council held a public meeting asking for citizen commentary and input regarding pit bulls and laws governing them within city limits.

The majority were pit bull owners who showed up in numbers to protect their right to own these dogs. All of these owners said that a vicious dog is the result of a bad owner and not a bad dog. Recent victims of the aftermath of pit attacks then spoke. One woman had let her collie out to play in her 7-foot-high fenced-in-backyard, in what she thought was a safe environment-- when a pit bull jumped the fence. She witnessed her pet being killed when she got up to check on the commotion she heard. Next, I got up to speak, telling the story (without identifying our neighbors), adding stats from the CDC about the number of fatal attacks by this breed, and ending with the toll it took on my loved ones.

Shortly after the public meeting, I was invited by our city council and the local ASPCA to be a community participant in helping to make recommendations that would shape amended dog control laws.

A Phila TV news crew surprised me by showing up on my property. I agreed to let them film Herc and me. And I was asked for comments. Scrupulous about not identifying my neighbor (by name or location), I reiterated my feelings about pits in general and that I thought that, at minimum, the city should pass stronger owner requirements--a special permit, leash laws, and minimum containment requirements if the pit were going to be placed outside unsupervised.

The next day, after I went to work, my neighbor came banging on my door when my husband was home, shouting that by granting the interview, I had purposely attracted criminals to his home.(!!) Turns out his occupation was prison guard. He insisted that now the prisoners knew where he lived and that I had endangered his life. Then he said he would now probably lose his job because of me!

I was so furious at these charges and comments that I nearly went to his house and made them a reality myself! But I never responded to him until we met for the first time in court. Then I let him have it, saying his words were chosen to threaten me and my family into being quiet.

The state had no trouble in proving its case. The owner was charged with and found guilty of owning and not controlling a dangerous dog. Fines on the books applied.

The owners' homeowners insurance policy covered our losses. We were treated fairly by the settlement, which included a separate monetary compensation to my dd for several counseling sessions in NY (where she was in school).

The City of Wilmington enacted new laws regarding pit bulls. Pits owners had to purchase special annual permits, with carried extra requirements and costs for owning non-neutered pits. A new leash law applied to all dogs in all public parks, with heavy fines for violations. Well-planned city sweeps for unregistered pits were fruitful. The News Journal uncovered and exposed a couple of pitbull fighting rings (and related dog-thefts for use in the training of these dogs). As the paper publicized the city's success stories, more and more residents were willing to publicly support the measures introduced.

That Christmas, the owners came knocking on our door. Of course, we invited them in. They had come to smooth the hard feelings between our two families. We were truly shocked and moved by their action. We had a short visit, where the wife did most of the talking. (It appeared that the husband was a reluctant participant, but he was there.) It was nice to put this all behind us.

Although time eased the painful memories for my dh and dd, I was very, very glad to move out of that neighborhood when the opportunity arose.

Catfat

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, Herkle, what a hideous story. I am glad you are away from that neighborhood. And thank you for having the courage to make a public stand against these vicious dogs. I was the victim of and unprovoked attack by a pit bull when I was walking to school at the age of 6. Luckily I had my snow suit on and my injuries were not life-threatening. I still am terrified of most dogs, and have a hard time keeping my old Trixter around, because you just don't know when a dog will turn on you.
By the way, I just found out that Princess Anne's dogs were bull terriers, not pit bulls. Is that a different breed? Who cares, they all should be put down, and their owners should be fined to the point of impoverishment.

Calamity

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 12:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Secretsmile: So very sorry for Cali, you, and your family. I know what grief you must be going through - I lost my dear doggy Alex this spring and my sweet kitty cat Casper about a-week-and-a-half ago. Will be keeping Cali in my heart and thoughts.

Herckleperckle

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks, Catfat. Glad you were in that snowsuit that day. It's not hard to understand that an incident like that can cause a lifelong fear of dogs. I don't know about bull terriers vs pit bulls. But I will google and check it out.

I should add that Herc has played very, very nicely with a couple of female pit bulls, who were sweetie pies. It's just that after such a dramatic incident, it's hard for me to understand why someone would want to own a dog that to me, has the potential to be a lethal weapon.

Herckleperckle

Monday, December 29, 2003 - 11:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Catfat, just checked, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are the same as Pit Bulls.

Zeyna

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 07:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Staffordshire Bull Terriers are different from Bull Terrriers though. Here's a pic of a bull terrier:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/bullter.cfm

and a pic of a staff:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/stbult.cfm

Zeyna

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 07:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
woops...here's the second link again:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/stbult.cfm

Herckleperckle

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 07:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Zeyna, thanks. Bull terriers are absolutely adorable. I remember them from that famous run of (beer?) commercials.

I sure hope I haven't offended anyone who owns a pit bull. I am positive that anyone here who might own one has taken the time to ensure it has been trained and loved properly.

I also heard an update today to the story Catfat posted. If I understood, the dog who was accused of killing the Corgi was the wrong dog; same breed, just wrong dog.

Juju2bigdog

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
English bull terrier was the Spuds Mackenzie Budwesier dog of a few years back. We were enthusiastic about getting one for a while until we read up on them, and decided we did not want the responsibility. They will kill other animals and have to be strictly supervised at all times. On the up side, they are highly intelligent, loving dogs to humans.

Herckleperckle

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow, thanks, Juju. Didn't know that!!! Where have you been lately???

Juju2bigdog

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 08:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
HP, I have been here since December 7, on the board daily. I did Tess's updates a couple times. I got some people in trouble in one thread, and I have been causing havoc in another, and I get my butt whipped daily in the trivia thread. Oh, and some days I have to single-handedly carry the computer problems thread. :)

Herckleperckle

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, okay. Guess I knew you did Tess' updates, but didn't see you much. Never go to the trivia thread--too hard for me! And I steer clear of the computer problems thread, too, as I don't want to invite any problems and wouldn't be any help to anyone who had problems. Thank goodness for the larger-brained among us!

Juju2bigdog

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 11:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, in the computer problems thread, I meant the one having the problems, not the advice giver, LOL. :) Although I do sometimes give advice just for fun on little bitty easy ones. Just to give Draheid a minute to breathe every now and then. Also to keep him on his toes for when I give wrong advice.

Herckleperckle

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 01:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hahahahaha! Well, just to enter the trivia area takes guts! I will give Draheid his due, then; he is the master! (I have read the thread at times and have been amazed at his wealth of knowledge!)

Catfat

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 09:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Trivia? Where, where? I can't find a trivia thread.

Catfat

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 09:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Zenya and Herk for the update about the dog story and for the links to the different breeds.