Archive through November 17, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: 2003 April:
Advice/Suggestions Needed (ARCHIVES):
Archive through November 17, 2002
Kaili | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:12 pm     I am starting this thread for anyone who may need quick advice on something...didn't want to use the "I have a dumb question" thread. Here is my little dilemma... Okay, I am student teaching two hour block classes. This means I have the same class for two 50 minute periods in a row for anyone unfamiliar with the set-up. The kids are allowed to take a break at passing time since not all teachers in the school do block classes. That's not my issue. My issue is with bathroom and drink breaks in schools and this would apply for any class length. The fact taht they are returning to the same room and have no need to go to their locker or anything does add to this however. Today about 8 minutes before passing time break I had a get say he had to use the bathroom. Now, keep in mind that this is a kid who skips all the time and refuses to even take notes during class. I asked him to wait until passing. He decided that would not work for him and he got up to leave. I told him that if he walked out of class, he should walk down to the office- if you walk out, don't come back today. So he did. After break I had about 3 other kids immediatly asking to use the bathroom or get drinks of water. Keep in mind they are allowed to have drinks in class and food is a privledge they haven't (yet) lost. One even asked to use the bathroom then 5 minutes later asked to get water. If he had to pee so bad, I really doubt he was thirsty 5 minutes later. It's getting ridiculous. So in my next class before break I reminded the kids- if you need to use the bathroom, use your break time to do it. Literally 5 minutes after break I had 2 people asking to go. One had a can of soda and said she had to go- I had just told them to use the bathroom. I know you can go 10 days without water- do we really need to get a drink from the fountain every 10 minutes!? Is it so hard to go 50 minutes without a sip of water!? I usually will let them use the bathroom after 15 to 20 minutes of class and 15-20 minutes before class is out but these kids are 15-16 years old. Some are 17!! Is bladder regulation that much of an issue. If they have to go SO bad 5 minutes into class then I assume they must have had to go at break as well. It does take awhile to really have to go as bad as they make it seem. Any advice? Anyone? |
Draheid | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:22 pm     Kaili: While I'm not trying to justify anything kids do these days, there could be factors that aren't apparent in your post... Questions I have: 1. What is the temperature like in class vs. outside (or wherever they come from)? [Temperature changes can have an effect on the body.] 2. What is the nature of your class, ie. do they have to speak (either to each other or the entire class) during the class?[Could be needing to 'wet their whistle' so to speak.] 3. What time of day is it that you are having these problems? [Afternoon or after lunch could be a problem.] 4. Is it only one class or are you having these problems in all classes at all times of the day? [Could possibly be one group of kids.] Perhaps considering these questions might give you an idea of some possible explanations? |
Kaili | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:28 pm     Draheid...Answers--- 1. Classroom is about 70 degrees- outside is close to the same right now. We are in Wisconsin. 2. They have time to speak in class...heck...they give themselves time to speak any chance they get! Usually I ask them questions and they have time to work together on stuff. 3/4. I have two classses and they both do this. The morning class started today (about 9-11 am before lunch) and I think they told kids in the later class about the bathroom fiasco so the afternoon kids started in as well. It's both groups. The second class is an hour after the last lunch period. There are 2 lunches at the school. My late class is from about 1-3 pm. Ahhh...goptta go to work now. I'll be checking back tonight! Thank you! |
Wargod | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:54 pm     I know this won't work for teenagers, but my sons first grade teacher makes the kids write their names on the board if they go to the bathroom during class. At the end of the day, the kids who didn't leave class to use the bathroom recieve a small treat...usually a little package of sweet tarts. She did mention that most of the class now takes recess and lunch time to use the bathroom so they could get candy at the end of the day, LOL. Like I said...probably won't work for teachers of teenagers, but for those who teach younger students maybe this could help, lol. |
Rissa | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:09 pm     My daughters' school allows students to bring a bottle of water into class, but no other type of drink or food. You know that sugary drinks and soda with caffiene can put the bladder into overload? Maybe restrict drinks to just water and if you don't bring it, you can't go get some from the fountain. As for bathroom breaks? That's hard, you don't want a kid who sincerely needs to go suffering in silence. LOL But as long as you have a few minutes btn classes then forbidding bathroom breaks would be my choice. A kid who needs to go THAT badly would let you know and you could bend the rules. My grade 8 daughter has a very strict teacher this year. If a student needs to leave the class for ANY reason then they owe her a two page essay by the next morning. My daughter had to write one the first week because she left a binder in her locker. That first week my daughter says that at least 4 kids a day were getting essays. This past week there was one for the whole week. Kids learn quickly if you make the rules clear, but not always the easy way. |
Twiggyish | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:23 pm     I am currently substituting in a computer class with teenagers and adults. (I also teach regular night classes) The kids tend to get up more frequently. What I've done in the past, is to keep a notepad for notes. If I see one student (a kid) frequently leaving, I make a note to see if it's a pattern. This gives you proof there is a problem. You can usually spot the ones who try to pull one over on you..LOL Thankfully, I haven't had to do this with my current class. |
Kaili | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 06:49 pm     I was thinking of asking the ones who go a lot if they should maybe consult a doctor in case their is a med problem making them need to use the bathroom so much. Tell them the problem should maybe be discussed with their parents in case it is medical. LOL. If they really have to go, I don't want to punish those kids but at 15-17 yrs old you would think they would know their bodies a bit better. One of those kids is going for his driving test next week---if he has a hard time knowing when he needs to go to the bathroom, should he be able to be driving a car!? Not that they're related but, you know... The drink and food privledge is going to go soon. The wrappers/cans are being left in the room and they get pretty loud digging into their chip bags. Water in clear containers is allowed by the school no matter what but other drinks & food are up to the teacher's discretion. Thanks everyone...any more suggestions would also be great. Or if anyone has a good lesson plan for the 100 yrs war...haha. |
Schoolmarm | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 07:22 pm     Kaili, I don't have a lesson plan for the 100 yrs war, BUT I agree that you need to clamp down on the priveledges in the class. They are taking you for a ride and seeing how far they can go. When I taught Jr. High, they could leave to use the bathroom or get a drink ONLY if I wasn't teaching. They had 2 minutes to get back for the bathroom and 1 minute for the drink. The bathroom was right next door. It was NEVER a problem! You have to bend a bit for girls at their time of the month. (They would say they were going to the nurses so the boys wouldn't time them!) It was a fifteen minute detention if they didn't get back, and I don't ever remember giving a detention. If you have to go that bad, it goes FAST! LOL! What does your co-op teacher do? Are they allowed to leave? And what about the food? OR you could have an "equal exchange" of time. Every minute out of the class equals the same number of minutes after school. This would probably cut down the out of class time. Remember that you are legally responsible for all students when assigned to your classroom, whether they are in the hall, the bathroom, cutting, or actually in your class. Hope your student teaching is going well. |
Kaili | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 07:47 pm     My cooperating teacher set the rules for the drinks and food being allowed but we have been discussing ending that, at least temporarily. We are also strongly considering moving students to new seats. I will be with a sub on Monday which makes me a bit nervous. Two people for them to try and take advantage of! Anyway, he is pretty strict about the bathroom when they ask him. He's easier on the girls because they tend to pull the UTI risk as an excuse to have to go NOW. He has actually been out of the room a lot lately. He is the student council guy and is always super busy with that, plus his father in law is in ICU in Minneapolis right now. It's kind of making me nervous about going to the middle school next month. I am only at this placement until Nov. 1 then I move on to an 8th grade class. Yikes! Overall though, despite the problems, I am having a really good time and loving being there. Yeah, it's very hard but I really do love it. There are the good days and the bad days, good minutes and bad minutes. Anyway, when I do let them use the bathroom I try to limit it to only when they are being given time to work on something (not while I am talking or anything else like that is going on). The funny thing is that I had a guest speaker come in yesterday and not one person (of about 57 kids) had to go use the bathroom during either hour of class. Hmmm...coincidence or not!? Maybe I will think about the time after school thing, but then what would I do with them during that time? Just sit there and look at them? Discuss bodily function control with them. These kids can get nasty. The boy who left the class- before he left he asked me if I wanted him to pee his pants in the room and would I buy him new ones if he did. It's like...ummm, no...I want you to wait five minutes until class is finished and you have a break to do your business. And I am kind of easy with them if they approach me civilly. The school is way too small for the number of students (built for about 600 kids, contains about 1000). I understand that they may need more than the 4 minutes they have to get to the bathroom and go and get back. If someone asks I may let them take the pass just in case they don't make it back in time. At least that person is planning to go! |
Sia | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 07:55 pm     Kaili, is this a public high school or a private school? Where I live, I don't think the kids are allowed to have food/drinks in the classrooms in the public schools. When I worked at a private boarding high school, the rules were more relaxed. Just curious. I feel most kids try to play a game with substitutes and student-teachers: they try to waste your in-class instructional time with nonsense like bathroom breaks, sharpening pencils, going to lockers, etc. You need to take a hard line with them. If you're student-teaching, isn't the classroom teacher any support to you in this situation? He/she should be. You need to let the teacher know which students are abusing the bathroom privileges & you might find that the worst offenders are chronic pains in the @$$ & that they do anything they can to be difficult. I would think that the teacher would have had guidelines for bathroom breaks & a policy in force already when you arrived to begin your student teaching. Good luck, God bless you for entering teaching; I'm glad I'm not in the public school classrooms any more! It's a difficult and often thankless job. |
Kaili | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 08:14 pm     It is a public school. The school policy is that water is okay and then the teachers can allow more beyond that if they choose. My teacher likes to stay out ofthings as much as possible until it goes too far. He told me that when he was student teaching, his cooperating teacher didn't advise him on much until it got to the point of "when all else fails". He liked that and that is how he does it with me. I do like that- it gives me a chance to screw up and he will comment on things I need to work on, etc but he isn't a big talker. Great guy though. I have been at this placement since the first day of school this year and he only taught a week before throwing me out there to them. He said the sooner the better basically. Bathroom guidelines have never really been addressed, but they also weren't a real issue until today. Previously I would have a kid or two ask to go and they usually are subtle and agreeable when and if I ask them to wait. It just went way out of hand today. That's one thing about my next placement...they will have been with her for 9 weeks already and should have clear rules in their minds of how she conducts things. That may be a good thing, but it may make things hard because they will be used to her already. |
Riviere | Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:11 pm     I've got a physical disorder called 'polydipsomania' and can't help you here. That was diagnosed in 3rd grade 1960s and guess what, I graduated top of my class.. I need liquids! I drink about 10 gallons of water, weak tea, weak koolaid, anything, daily. In school they let me drink water or juices at my desk so I wouldn't froth and pass out or have to keep running to the water fountain.. Did I get teased? You bet! But did I care? Nope.. I have very strong kidneys and no allergies, lately my doc tells me I am hypoglycemic (opposite of diabetic) but I have this lifelong thirst thing no tests explain besides polydipsomania.. Guess there won't be any 'quick advice' here, but it would be very interesting to meet someone else with this... |
Draheid | Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:02 am     Kaili: Here's another possible solution for you : Have the following sign made up on a 24" x 36" poster board:
And use that as their pass!  |
Djgirl5235 | Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 01:11 pm     I LOVE IT!!! |
Wargod | Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 01:23 pm     LOL Dra! Unless they really had to go, I'm betting that would cut down on trips to the bathroom during clas. |
Kaili | Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 01:26 pm     That is so cute! Right now we ahve a huge plastic thing that says Tinkle Pass on it (the other rooms use the standard small hall pass). haha! I laid into them a bit today. Not about the bathroom stuff as much as the talking and goofing off in general. I told them that the test is on Friday but since there has been so much time spent off task during class we are a bit behind. I will not change the test date to accomodate their talking to each other so they were given a worksheet on the last section of the chapter. If we have time tomorrow we will go over it together in class but if there is too much talking they will be left to do it on their own on their own time. It is in their hands- their responsibility. These kids are the biggest babies about homework. The last thing they had to do was assigned on a thursday and due last Tuesday. That means no homework in over a week! I always give them at least 2 days for small assignments- more if bigger. Oh, and to update you all- Today within one hour 5 kids asked to use the bathroom. |
Sia | Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 05:28 am     Speaking of bathroom hall passes, times certainly have changed over the years, and private schools always have had different rules than public schools. My high school English teacher attended Catholic schools for his elementary and high school years and told us about a rather clever hall pass the nuns used which made it less likely that students would abuse bathroom privileges: as a hall pass, a student leaving a classroom had to wear a TOILET SEAT around his neck!! The toilet seat had to remain in place until the student reached the bathroom and be worn back to the classroom, too. Hmmm, I don't think that would go over these days. |
Phatcat | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:45 am     I need some advice for my best friend. Her 20-year-old son had a 1995 Honda Civic Del Sol which he still owed $4,228.00 on. The Blue Book suggested retail on this automobile is $6,685.00. He went to the local Hallmark Volkswagon dealer and traded for a 1999 VW Jetta GL. The suggested Blue Book retail on this automobile is $12,100. The bottom line is: the amount financed was $13,383 for the VW Jetta, plus $4,228 to pay off the balance on the Honda. Total amount financed is $17,611.00!! The dealer allowed her son to drive the Jetta off the lot, titled the car to him, etc., with no insurance on the automobile. That was 2 weeks ago. NOW, yesterday, the Volkswagon Credit Union sent a letter to my friend's son saying that they will not finance the Jetta due to the fact that the boy has no established credit, nor sufficient income for this amount of money. He thinks the dealership has already sold the Honda. WHAT DOES HE DO NOW???? It appears to me that the boy has been royally screwed. His dad died from complications from the Gulf War and his mom needs some advice. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I had told her many times about the wonderful people here at TVCH, so this is the first place I have come for advice. One more thing, ten days after he bought the Jetta, he told his mother about the deal and she took him back to the dealership and asked them to void the contract and give him back his Honda. They refused saying the deal was signed, sealed and delivered. HELP PLEASE!!! |
Draheid | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:57 am     Phatcat: I have a very good friend who happens to be the manager of 'Special Finance' for a large car dealership nearby. I would bet he'll have some good answers and suggestions for you. Unfortunately, being Sunday, it's his only day off. I will call him first thing tomorrow if that will be soon enough for you. Meanwhile, I'll bet there will be other answers here soon. |
Phatcat | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:58 am      |
Phatcat | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:02 am     Oh, thanks, Draheid. I told my friend all about you and that I was sure I would hear from you in less than and hour. YOU ARE THE GREATEST. Thank you, thank you, thank you. |
Crossfire | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:13 am     Is a school built for 600 with 1000 currently able to handle the volume at pass time? Are the washrooms busy during that time? Crowded a bit? Are some students trying to avoid certain people? Any bullies setting up shop in the can during break time? Some people don't like using the can when other people are present. |
Halfunit | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:21 am     Phat, What an interesting predicament. If I understand you correctly: Boy has car. VW will not pay dealership for car. Dealership has no money, no car, and refuses to take car back. Sounds to me the dealership acted too quickly to take advantage of a young person, and the end result was they screwed themselves. I'm wondering if the dealership will now have to secure financing with another lender. (Until something happens, I would suggest that the boy keep the paperwork from the dealership, including the title, with him IN THE CAR at all times, just in case the dealership reports the car stolen. I doubt this would happen, but I live in worst case scenario land.) |
Phatcat | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:33 am     Exactly, Half. And if their own credit union will not finance the Jetta, I can't imagine where they could secure financing with another lender. This is a wonderful young man, although quite naive. I just hate that anybody would take advantage of him. I will certainly pass any...and all...advice to his mom. Thanks, Half. This is absolutely the GREATEST SITE ON THE NET!!! |
Weinermr | Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:52 am     Phatcat, It sounds like the young man got absolutely no credit for the value of the car he traded in. The 1995 Honda Civic Del Sol still had $4,228 owing on it. You said the retail value on it is $6,685, but the trade in value is probably closer to or about equal to the amount still owing on the loan, $4,228. In other words, the trade in should have been a wash. They should have accepted the car as an even deal. They can pay off the loan, fix it up, and resell it at the retail value of $6,685 or more, and make a tidy $2,400 profit. Meanwhile, the new car that is worth $12,100 could be financed for only $13,383, and the young man may qualify for financing on this lower value. Or your friend may consider cosigning the lower loan value with her son. It really sounds like the kid got screwed over. The dealership is not only trying to make the kid refinance the loan AND the old car that he doesn't even own anymore, but then they will turn around and sell it for full retail value! If they get away with it, they will make a tidy $6,685 profit on the trade in! Someone ought to march in to the dealership and give the manager a good talking to. If that doesn't work, it would be worth their while to hire a sharp attorney to write a letter requesting that the dealership straighten out the situation. It would be worth a couple hundred dollars to get the kid out of this mess. Lastly, the dealership should be reported to the Better Business Bureau and any other authority that should know about these abusive practices. Good luck to your friend. P.S. If they don't want to accept his trade-in as an even deal, then they can give it back to him. He will have to keep making payments on it, but he can sell it himself, then HE can keep the $2,400 profit. |
|