Archive through January 25, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: 2003 April: The Guy Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through January 25, 2003

Merlin

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 07:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for your input Nightcrawler and that was what I was asking.

Not getting upset easy is an admirable quality and would lead me to believe that you tend to not make other people wrong very often. Since Bookie is expecting another child soon I am inclined to think she would say you are very loving also.

Rogue

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 07:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow, I like your question, Merlin.

For me, I'd have to say my integrity and my patience. I'm always for trying/learning something knew and will take the time to try, learn, and listen. Lance, I think you have me described too. Are you sure we aren't twins?

Lancecrossfire

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Rogue, I'm pretty sure we aren't twins--lol. NC, from listening to you in chat and the way you post, I can see why you indicated what you said. You seem very down to earth, liking family type situations, and people in general.

Merlin, congratulations on meeting someone who has the qualities you would associate with your idea of the perfect woman. I think anyone who meets such a person is very fortunate. I hope the best for you and her.

I was reading the woman’s thread that is commenting on the guy thread. A comment was made that what we say could be affected by the fact they are watching us. I don't know about the rest of the guys here, but I tend to say the same things no matter who is watching--or if no one is watching.

My opinions are not likely to change with different audiences. I'm still looking forward to hearing what Weiner has to say about Merlin's question as well as Rabbit's input. Any other guys for that matter.

Merlin, I know you are into communicating, and the basis for any relationship is impacted by communications. Based on situations at work and outside of work, I'll share a pet peeve I've got about communicating. If you have one, please share it--I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts (all guys--just not Merlin).

I really get frustrated with hints. By their very nature they are small clues that might lead you to the right answer, yet are meant to be such that it's not easy to figure out the right answer. For me, hints are open invitations to failure--especially in communicating. If you want me to know something, tell me straight out. If you want me to do something, tell me, because a hint means you are at least to some degree making me guess. Be issue oriented, be respectful and be honest with what you are looking for.

I may get the hints right some times, but I'm also going to get them wrong as well. And then if I get in trouble for that, I'm going to let you know that isn't acceptable. OK, so it would seem I'm not into games. I do like to joke around, although make every attempt to make that clear and not be bothered at the other person if they "don't get it".

Do any of you like the hinting type approach? Do any of you have situations you like or are comfortable with concerning communications?

Rogue

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't care for the hint approach, unless it's so painfully obvious....

I like to be able to look into a person's eyes while talkig w/them. I can really tell what they are trying to say that way. Sometimes, I can read the hints really well that way. But otherwise, I prefer to be told straight out what's up.

I'd have to agree w/your assessment, though, Lance, it's a sure path to failure if you can't understand/interpret the hints.

Merlin

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance, I will respond to this in more detail tomorrow, but I had to ask you guys something.

Do you find the thread that the women are posting in about this thread a bit like a movie......Bad Girls Gone Wild?

Lancecrossfire

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Merlin--more like good girls gone semi-wild.

They still have their clothes on. I like that they are relaxing though--that is a good sign.

Weinermr

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Since we're talking honesty here, I will be totally and completely honest.

There are several comments being made in the "Guy Thread Discussion For Women" thread that to me are extremely hurtful. I'll give you some examples.

<surely it was a man who invented those..I have not..nor will I ever..wear a pair of hip huggers!!>
Why a man? Is it your statement that a man would be so cruel as to invent something hurtful to a woman just for his own pleasure?

<yep men invented them>
Same as prior comment.

<often i only read his posts in those types of threads cause he uses compassion and reasoning>
Meaning none of the other men use compassion and reasoning?

<I bet their thread sinks like a stone.>

<i like it when guys wash the dishes properly.>
<do you know one??????>
<they cost about $250 an hour for the ones with papers. ;-)>
Is it funny to demean men in this way?

<Problem is since no women are going over there,the men have stopped posting. Isn't that just classic?????>
<Yeah what xxxxx said!>
Do you really think "men" are so inept? All men? All the men that you know?

<Let's face it, ladies. Men can't manage without us. I'm really interested to see what happens to their thread without our imput>
Yes, men are completely helpless.

<behind most world leader stands the woman>

<it is awesome that they are discussing emotions>
They?

I fear I won't be able to express how I feel about these comments, or that that way I feel will not be understood. These comments hurt me, and hurt me very deeply. I detest these and all stereotypes. I don't find them humorous, I only feel pain when I read them.

I dearly love TVCH and the people that post here, but these kinds of comments have now, and always will be extremely painful to me. Every time someone posts along these lines, and there are one or more posts like this on a daily basis, it makes me want to leave and never come back.

Everyone loves to be clever, and funny, and make jokes ha ha ha. But to do so in a way that knowingly causes someone else pain is cruel. I am in pain every time I read things like this. I may try to ignore it. I may post something nonsensical or non sequitur in an effort to deflect how I really feel. But believe me, the hurt is still there.

I do not believe in these stereotypes, these gender generalities, these demeaning comments. I don't believe stereotypes about women, about men, about anyone.

Why do you expect me or anyone else to post how they really feel about anything when the result is a thread that mocks our efforts to do so, or patronizes those same efforts by praising us for "expressing our emotions". I express my emotions every day of my life, and I don't need permission or approval of anyone to do so.

Yes it's all in the name of humor. Ha Ha Ha. Only I don't find it funny at all. Sorry.

I'm not speaking on behalf of "men". I'm speaking on behalf of one man. One person. Me. This is only a fraction of how I feel, but I've said enough for now.

Cyn

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Weinermr, I don't think I'm allowed to post in here, so I apologize for breaking the gender rule. I was teasing and joking and of course none of this is funny if it hurts someones feelings. I will not continue it. I thought that the purpose of the thread was to just tell raunchy jokes that you would never tell in front of a guy cause of course it would hurt thier feelings. But the fact that you guys were of course watching would show you that woman are just as messed up as guys. You can respond to my folder or the girls thread if you want to, cause I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't be in here.

oh, when i was talkin about reading Lance's posts, it had nothing to do with him being a man or a woman.

and when i said "emotions". i was serious. I have done counceling for troubled teens and the biggest problem is getting the guys to discuess their emotions. i did not mean it to be patronizing. Plus all of the men in my life are not open emotionally. I think it is awesome that inside of TVCH there are such caring and loving people. I meant those words with all Weinermr sincerity.

I am just really sorry for being so immature and talkin trash while I was drinking. I love my sweetie cause he is nothing like the jokes that i was making.

Weinermr

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cyn,

I didn't post to make you or anyone else feel bad, I posted to express how "I" feel. Honestly, that shouldn't stop you or anyone else from saying what you think, posting how you feel, expressing your true thoughts and emotions, whatever they are.

Please don't apologize. You have nothing to apologize about.

Cyn

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No, Weinermr, that's not why I apologize. I apologize because what I was partaking in was hurtful. It was sterotyping. And you didn't make me feel bad - I made myself feel bad.

My true feelings are woman and men are different, but in every way equal.

Lancecrossfire

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It is not against the rules for women to post here.:) Nor is it against the rules for guys to post in the other thread--just choices to do it or not. I will say my feelings/thoughts no matter who posts here.

Weiner, I'm at a loss for words for what you are feeling. There are times I feel like you, there are times I think it's mostly joking, and there are times I just don't know.

There are a few folks I know from meeting, emails, or talking to in chat regularly--for those folks I always have a good idea which it is.

I sure hope you are able to stay around Weiner--both your humor and your seriousness really add to TVCH.

I appreciate that you said how you feel Weiner---I really do. It's that honesty and straight forward communicating that I respect and trust--no matter the content of the message.

Cyn

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks, Lance for the welcome. I had never opened this thread before tonight and have only read 7-8 posts.

Weinermr, please don't go away cause most of us were repeating stuff that none of us meant and many of us have probably not talked like that too many times. Plus, we need you hear to reveal to us this type of thing. I didn't even consider it. But I will now.

I was joking especially about the renting of a dishwasher. I would never hire anyone to do anything for me that I could do myself.

I mean it with all sincerity when I say that it is awesome the conversation of the few posts that I have read inside here.

Bob2112

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 11:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mr. Weiner, I share many of those same feelings that you have expressed and I thank you for putting them into words for me. I seldom come out of my "character" here at TVCH and the few times I have attempted to post my honest feelings, I was not happy with the results. I find it much easier to spend my time posting here as the silly sponge. People seem to enjoy it and it allows me to more easily post almost anything I want.

Lance, while you are correct that the rules allow any member to post in any thread, I do believe it was Twiggy's intent when she created this thread that only males continue to post here. I have purposely stayed away from this thread since, until recently, it was mostly posts by the ladies. The "Guy Thread Discussion For Women" thread is a good place for the ladies to discuss this thread. Merlin may have started to take this thread in a serious direction and perhaps something interesting may come of it yet.

For now, I will climb back into my protective costume
and quietly slip back into the Games thread. Bob

Cyn

Friday, January 24, 2003 - 11:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ps - bell clangs in my head - i was doing what i was saying that woman shouldn't do by taking on the persona of the sterotypical dude from the guy show. I will think about this for a long time to come by watching for it. I don't wanna be a hurtful disresptful person. I have a bunch to learn about growing up. Thank God(dess) that we get a life time.

Jed245

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 04:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Guys I noticed that this thread started out as a guy thread, then it became a thread of women talking about guys now it seems to be a guy thread mixed again. :o)

I tried to raid the hair thread and get some guys to help me take over. And I went into the guy thread for women yesterday ya know just seemed like that bliztek commercial... for men johnny for men..

Ya know that kinda thing. Well I was the lone guy there and I got exploited :o) hehe

jed

Resortgirl

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 05:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Weiner,
I wasn't here last night, but have read both threads and I'm sure what the girls were posting in their thread was in jest, because I'm sure none of them would say anything to intentionaly hurt you. But I can see why the things said would hurt your feelings. I think if the guys would make statements that are stereotypical of the women (even in jest), you'd probably be tarred and feathered. I'm sorry that you were hurt, and I for one think you are an awesome guy (and I know everyone else feels that way too). I have had the pleasure of getting to know and becoming friends with two men from this board, Lance and Merlin and respect and love them immensely! It's great to be able to get a mans perspective on things going on in my life and I cherish there friendship deeply. I don't "think" I've ever been a part of any male bashing and if I have you have my sincerest apologies.

I am also glad that Merlin put out such a great question for all of you and I will be watching this thread for your answers. It's great getting to know the people here.

p.s. I really like wearing hiphuggers!!

Twiggyish

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 06:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When I started this thread it was NOT to be really male or female. Yes, it says Guy Thread. BUt, it was just in response to Lance. He was in one of the Date threads and in jest..I created this one. It has taken an UGLY turn. Sorry.
Yes people do stereotype and they do expect genders to act a certain way. But, HOW can we learn from our mistakes if we don't address them??
Sorry Weiner.. you are a wonderful person.

Weinermr

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 07:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Twiggy,

No apology is necessary. Your intentions when you created this thread were thoughtful and honorable. I know that you're a loving and caring person. I have no doubt of that.

Twiggyish

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 07:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
((Weiner)) thank you.

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 02:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, I admit it—I don’t mind sharing my opinion. I also admit I like folks to get along—which in a way is kind of ironic because I’m extremely competitive. Including the area of liking to be right. In some areas though, I don’t think there is a completely right or wrong answer. I’ve read this thread with high interest since it was started—and read the gal’s thread with the same interest.

Humor to me is a topic of both interest and amazement to me. I find humor to be complicated (VERY complicated), diverse, extremely intimate, personal, and very necessary. I like to laugh. For those that have met me, that doesn’t always show through, because there are times I like to laugh and times I’m a very serious person. So unless you are around me for some length of time, I may well seem like a stuff bore. My humor is admittedly weird. I use and like sarcasm, understatement, irony, and dry humor (I shudder to think what wet humor is!). Some of them have the potential to insult and hurt, because they can be used in that way. The topics I like for humor are varied, and include some topics that are not politically correct.

I believe humor is selective/personal. You can say something to one person, and it doesn’t bother them. You can say it to someone else, and it does. Or that same person you say it to and isn’t bothered would be bothered if someone else said it to them. I like the jousting/bantering humor with people that I’m close to. I know it’s within their limits, they appreciate it, and I appreciate it. But with some, I would cause insult and hurt if I use it.

In the gals thread there has been a discussion today about thick and thin skin. Should a person have thick skin? Should you say to someone who is hurt or insulted, “hey, get a thicker skin, I didn’t mean anything by it so you shouldn’t be insulted.”

Or should we avoid saying anything potentially insulting and hurtful, so there is no need for thick skin?

Or should we allow the person to have whatever kind of skin they want, and if we say something that hurts someone, and that wasn’t our intention say to them “hey, I’m sorry that hurt—it was most definitely not my intention to do so—I was only trying to inject some humor. It is clear in this case it didn’t work.”?

Thick skin is good to have in life—although if people were respectful of each other, we wouldn’t need it to avoid being hurt or insulted. But then that is something I think we all see in a different light. Being PC is a must for some. For others it isn’t—and it’s felt respect can be given and lack of PC can exist (at the right times).

I don’t mind discussing issues that are emotional, or cause us to think in a sensitive manner. Heck, I don’t mind most types of humor. Some of the stereotype jokes are funny to me—depending on how they are used. I know some people who use them because they really believe them, and use it to spread that belief around. That one bothers me a little bit, because I don’t believe ALL men are scum, or ALL blondes are stupid—and having that belief spread is not a good thing. It’s taking a trait that has nothing to do with the person and making into something that does that crosses my line. Notice I say MY line. Because others are bothered way before that, and others are even bothered at that point. So, humor also becomes very individualistic.

Humor in written form like this board—what a subject! Certain types of humor seem to lead to potential miscommunication more than others. IMHO, sarcasm is a type that lends itself to being tough to read. If a person uses it as a blanket attempt, unless it is something way to the right or left, it may be seen different by a number of folks. If it is used to a specific individual, and you two know each other well, it has a better chance of being taken the way it was intended—but still some room for not picking it up as intended.

I hope no one walks away from all of this. I hope everyone stays, says what they feel in an honest way, and listens to the others who are willing to do the same. That has been the hallmark of TVCH over the days, weeks, months and years. There have been bumps between people in groups, pairs, factions, etc. We’ve gotten past all of them so far, and become closer for it each time after any dust settled. I enjoy throwing out my thoughts and feelings and having others say what they think of them—and I enjoy doing the same back. I plan on doing it in the future for anyone who wants to participate, so I’ll be here in the guy thread asking and answering questions.

Some of the things that have bothered others has bothered me, some of it has not, and some of the things that doesn’t bother anyone else has bothered me—LOL. For me what I’m handed to deal with isn’t nearly important as how I deal with it. I really enjoy that folks here are willing to say with a high level of honesty how they feel. I love that humor is used all over the board. I love that most any issue is fair game.

For all those I’ve caused grief to, I’d like to apologize—and also say that it wasn’t done out of intent to hurt or insult. I may have ended up doing so, but it was not my intent. It doesn’t change I did so, although for me it’s an important distinction about it being unintentional as opposed to trying to hurt someone.

I don’t always agree with all of you, however I sure do respect all of you. There is no gain without some type of risk. I’ve gained a lot from so many of you.

Hippyt

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 02:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Good lawd,what have I walked into?

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 02:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hippyt, I hope you've walked into an honest discussion about various issues.:) Well, with some humor thrown in here and there.

Grannyg

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 03:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance, very well said!! Now I'm going over to the coed thread and put a dancing gif for Lance!!

Twiggyish

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 03:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know we must feel comfortable with each other (all of us) to express our feelings. (Sort of like a REAL family)

Rogue

Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 03:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
<clapping for Lance>

You go, boy!!!