Archive through January 27, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: 2003 April:
The Guy Thread (ARCHIVES):
Archive through January 27, 2003
Bigd | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 04:06 pm     Merlin said: Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:29 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lance, I will respond to this in more detail tomorrow, but I had to ask you guys something. Is Merlin still here? |
Suitsmefine | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 04:55 pm     BIG SMOOCHIES, Lance!!!!!! Well said!!! |
Jbean | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 05:04 pm     (((((((((((((((everyone))))))))))))) i think everyone needs a hug today! |
Hippyt | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 06:24 pm     okay,well,I went and read everything. I haven't been around today. I noticed a couple of things I said in Mr. Weiner's quotes. I will say,I am not a male basher,I have never ever supported male bashing.My comment was taken out of context,IMHO. Enough said about me. I also,like everyone else here am sorry that anyone would be hurt by things said there. And last,Lance is right as usual. It was humor,and humor in print is sometimes not so easy to understand. |
Rogue | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 07:59 pm     There was humor? hehe, JK! Love ya! |
Whoami | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 08:34 pm     <sneaking into the Mans's thread..> Wow! I just read through the events of today. What an eye opener! I'm glad I haven't had the time to do more than skim through the posts in the Women's thread, cause in all honesty, I may have joined right in on the "humor." Weiner, I think I can really relate where you are coming from. I can relate on two subjects. For instance, try living with an alcoholic all your life, and reaching the point where the alcohol not only consumes that person's life, but your own. Then watch TV, and see the "funny drunk" as they are always portrayed. There's just nothing funny about watching a person who is so drunk they can't walk or talk. Yet TV has a gay old time of it over and over. It's always a source of comedic relief. Then try being fat all your life. And watch commercial after commercial put in a fat person if they want to portray someone eating a lot. That person is always holding double fistfulls of food, and it's always "funny." Look at Leave it to Beaver. The fat kid who was Beaver's friend always had a chicken leg or some other type of food in his hand. I knew a girl who was so skinny, it was pathetic. Yet she could out-eat me at any sitting. Society is full of stereotypical expectations of how men, women, fat people, etc should act, and that includes how any of these "types" would act in a group of themselves. I tend to think the people in the Women's thread fell victim to those stereotypes by allowing themselves to participate in the posts in question. That's not to say that they are just victims, and therefore what was said was ok (I did say they allowed themselves to fall victim). I just mean that it's easy for any of us to follow the crowd and play along and do what is "expected" of us. Like I said, I may have joined in myself. For refusing to follow the crowd, and pointing out a society flaw, I applaud Weiner for speaking up and pointing out that the things being said were hurtful. You helped us all to open our eyes and take a step back to look at ourselves. However, I would also like to end this post with a quote I once read, and is often one of two mottos I like to live by (cause Lord knows I've had my feelings hurt many times over): "Nobody can make you feel bad without your consent." <turns Man's thread back over to the Men> |
Weinermr | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 09:39 pm     <"Nobody can make you feel bad without your consent."> Thank you for reminding me of that, Whoami. |
Babyruth | Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 11:06 pm     Spygirl articulated my own thoughts and feelings on this issue perfectly in her post in the "women's discussion" thread. One particular excerpt says it all:
Quote:I have thought for a while that this place has a lot of females who have the potential to be male-bashers...even in jest. I am not comfortable with that and don't engage in it -- even in fun. To me, there is nothing, and I mean nothing funny about stereotyping, disrespecting, or making fun of others.
Karuuna also said several things that I agree with wholeheartedly, too (as is often the case, somehow). I am feeling very sad after reading all these posts in the threads and seeing everyone's responses. Sad that several wonderful people are feeling hurt when indeed, nobody meant that to be the case. I am in awe of the courage it took for Weiner to speak up and share his thoughts and feelings, and, like Whoami, I am applauding him for doing so. I am also heartened by the responses from Cyn, Half, Zachsmom and others who, realizing a friend has been hurt, are deciding to take a break from those sort of posts and think about what he shared. It's clear to me that nobody meant to hurt anyone. It's also clear to me however, that someone needed to speak up and say something about the hurt being felt. As Twiggy and some others have said, this is an opportunity for learning more about ourselves and each other, and about how we relate as a big TVCH family. A chance to grow. It's also a chance to take a look at the stereotypical things we sometimes say or do that inadvertently are hurtful to members of groups to which we do not belong. If the members of those groups don't speak up, we aren't going to be aware of the impact of our words. It takes a lot of courage to speak up and not just sweep the hurt feelings under the rug for the sake of keeping the peace. I think it's important to educate people about the negative effects of stereotyping when the opportunity arises, and it takes guts to do it when you're the offended party among people you consider to be your friends. I've experienced this myself here, and it's no picnic. Some people care and some don't. But at least everyone is a little bit better educated, whatever they choose to do with it. --my  |
Jed245 | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 03:18 am     Babyruth I agree with ya on that. However, I will say there is nothing wrong with a little leviety to help calm then reopen the subject with clear minds and open hearts. Rather then a heated debate with words comming from missplaced emotion. And ears (er eyes?) listening for a message that might not be there. :o) With that being said.. <Throws several invitations to the co-ed thread in the room> (Co-ed.... Thread.... Jed ) heh I rhyme with alotta stuff ya know :o) Jed |
Merlin | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:44 am     What a very interesting read in these two threads since Friday night. Actually if you go back to the very beginning of the guy thread and read it from the start in November, you can get a totally different meaning from it. It is difficult to decide where to start and what to address. I will start with intent. My intent over the last few days was to provide a forum and environment that would encourage a minority of this message board to reveal a facet of themselves that I thought would bring a different flavor to the mix. I have found that many times the picture I end up with that is my image of a tvch member is quite one dimensional. Having met several tvch people in real life has made this very evident to me. If a poll was taken as to the image I put forth on this message board I expect it would be that of a jokester who is a bit heavy with the sexual innuendo. I doubt anyone would say that I have been the most prolific poster in the caring and supportive threads, much less someone who ever posts in the thoughtful threads. People who do know me can see that I am a caring and supportive person who does occasionally get thoughtful. One of the things that really stood out for me is how many of the guys who posted since my original question on Friday morning, have expressed a similar feeling that I have experienced. That being, the environment for being a guy and being serious about anything beyond politics was not present. I had kind of concluded it was my own insecurities that made me hesitant to post the kind of stuff that was being posted Friday in the guy thread. I was comforted to see other guys had that same insecurity. The question I posted was a purposeful attempt to try something thoughtful versus being the jokester. I requested for a “men only” period in that thread in order to try to keep it on track for a while to see how many men would respond. I was hoping to open up an area of conversation I find interesting but realize that men are hesitant to venture into in a public forum. I wish to continue this type of discussion amongst the men who are willing to take another chance at it. Lance has told me he is willing to participate. It will get boring real quick if it is just Lance and I. I realize the posts in the Women’s Discussion thread were for the most part all humor poked at guys in general and for what was being attempted in the Guy thread and were not meant as being malicious. I found that some of the jokes being made would have stopped me from posting in the guy thread if I had not already done it. I would want to continue seeing comments from the women about what the guys have to say and I hope that it has become more apparent in what supports a guy in being able to talk openly. |
Twiggyish | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:15 am     I agree Merlin. For myself, I went a bit overboard. I even posted something in the TS thread, that I GREATLY regret. The funny thing is that I don't drink at all. Ok, maybe on special occasions. (About once a year) So, my siliness in that thread was completely me. There isn't an excuse for me, just that I was letting go. (again something I don't normally do) I'll take note for the future. To address what you were saying about the men on the board.. Most women like to talk about their pets, their homes, their feelings. These aren't USUALLY topics men like to discuss. Geez, I now feel bad that we were discussing your topic, because I can see where this would be something to bring into the open. |
Mware | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:23 am     Know what I notice too? The very word "guy" carries with it an image that connotes the stereotypes of male behavior. (i.e. burping, scratching, skirt chasing, beer swilling, etc.) There are very definitely times when stereotypes do fit, or else they wouldn't become stereotypes. But I don't think there are too many people on this board who know any other so well that they can categorize another poster with any stereotype, be it gender or any other. I applaud Weinermr for his courage in pointing out a train that had, in my opinion as well, gone well off the track. And I applaud Lance for his efforts to speak out. And I applaud Merlin for recognizing that there are other things men like to talk about, and need to talk about. And I applaud Bob for stepping out of character and verifying what I knew all along, that there is a man under the absorbent persona he shows here most of the time. My hands are getting tired from all the applause I've given out, but I hope that the men who frequent this board as I do know that I admire each of them for being a caring and supportive member of this vibrant community. And while I'm sure that there have been at least a couple of times in each of our lives when we've abandoned our senses and acted like "guys," this group is more than that. We're men. We respect, admire, enjoy, and learn from our female counterparts on the board and in our real lives. We enjoy interacting with them, joking with them, discussing with them, and sharing our lives with them. |
Loppes | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:07 am     Guys, I agree with all the posts. I am disturbed by some of the posts the women at this board have posted in the other folder too. To be honest, sometimes I feel the female component carry an air of superiority here which isn't all too surprising. On the other hand, other aspects of their thread lend themselves to a "fraternity" house mentality. Women! Can't live with them, can't live without them. It must be a primal thing going back to the Stone Age. I just ask the females be a little more sensitive to the men here. We do have feelings, contrary to popular belief. I'm going to go now and get in touch with my "Inner Child" self, and watch Superbowl. Beer anyone? Lon |
Merlin | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 10:30 am     You know Lon, until you said the part sometimes I feel the female component carry an air of superiority here which isn't all too surprising you might have seen some of those women being more sensitive. <disclaimer: just my opinion and intended to further fairness in posting>  |
Moondance | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:16 am     I love and appreciate guys, men, dudes whatever the 'label.' There are times they get under my skin as do I, other women, gals, dudettes do too. I am just happy they (guys) were invented! |
Twiggyish | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:19 am     ME TOO! |
Karuuna | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:20 am     Dang! I'm so impressed by the eloquence and depth of many of these posts. Even tho I regret that some people felt pain and dis-ease over this whole issue; I am very grateful to see the thoughtful and caring responses it's generated. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, in the end, I have to say I've grown thru this experience, even if it was uncomfortable at times. Once again, I feel very fortunate to be a part of this online community, and am grateful for those of you who are online inspirations, and the few of you who have also turned into real life inspirations.  |
Jed245 | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 11:25 am     No offense to ketchuplover or anyone in the new survivor card game. But, it looks to me that we were getting a little preview of the next season of survivor right here on the board. Some people seem to have paired off in male female tribes. So I guess we got two games of survivor goin on here eh? :o) Well here is my take on this whole series of posts to anyone that wants to hear/read it. :o) Ok there is such a thing as male and female bashing. And yes you do have every right to think what you want and say what you want. My point is if someone comes in here and says something offensive to you. Let them know about it as some have done. However, that doesn't mean we need to split up the entire board on a gender basis. There is also such a thing as over analysis. For the people directly involved I'm sure we can work this out without bloodshed or a need to section off the board with your gender being your password. In the work place there would be a need for this conversation/topic to be explored further. I understand that we have our own little corner on the world wide web. And alot of strong friendships have formed. But, this is starting to look like it's being tossed around and causing further controversy. Can't we all just get along? :o) And dance? :o) hehe. This is the ending of my rant. Well, the snow outside is really comming down good and the wind is blowing enough to give it that really cool sideways snow effect. So I'm gonna surf and check back to see if anyone has anything going on i can get in on :o) Jed :o) |
Merlin | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:01 pm     Thanks for your insight Jed. If some people were wanting to pair off in tribes with different genders, I missed that. I never got that anyone wanted to split the board on a gender basis. One thing you said may not be clear to me as your intended meaning. When you say if this was in the workplace it would merit further exploration it implies to me because this is just a message board it does not warrant the same consideration. Also, since there is some controversy involved that any further discussion should end.Correct me if I misunderstood your message, but from my perspective that very avoidance of confrontation may have been a huge factor to the events of the last few days. By the way, avoidance of confrontation has been one of my best places to hide out.  |
Meme9 | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:03 pm     I came to the board late Saturday evening was surprised to see all this. I thought of posting, but didn't. I've thought about this since then. I thought...should I say this or that. What it all boils down to for me is, I don't think anyone was there with any malice. I hated reading that feelings were hurt. There are jerks in every gender, race, occupation, in every shape and size. I don't think he guys are jerk, because if you really were, you probably wouldn't be here(JMO). That is why when Twiggyish ask if we should invited you all over to the thread I said sure. I was just playing and meant no harm(I usually don't play that much). Hopefully those that read my post understand. But thats not to say I don't bash, when some jerk (in what ever form) has ticked me off. There are lots of reasons in my life and that sometimes its been good to vent (at least it saves my hubby's ears). Don't get me wrong, I love my hubby and sometimes I may say something that others may take to include them...It doesn't. I deal with one at a time.( hehe sorry, I'm using a little humor). I see lots of good people, in all forms too. And I always take notice of them. Hope I said enough, and also hope I didn't say to much. No Harm Meant To Anyone. |
Jed245 | Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:39 pm     nah merlin I wasn't promoting the avoid factor, and not belittling where this happened. I was trying to say... The offended and the would be offenders. Can talk this out between themselves. Hopefully with a happy ending. If ya stop and think about it they were probablly laughing at those same people just days before. :o) My comment was meant to be sort of like that off brand cheap knock off of pepto bismol. (Meant to calm the situation, but, weak enough to only give ya that self satisfied feeling of attempting to fix the problem. :o) Umm the spliting up into tribes was sorta a joke. :o) See the next survivor is gonna be guys vs girls. And well they have this whole survivor card game on the boards now. :o) And then there's the fact that people are talking about guy bashing by women. So Umm it just kinda sorta seemed like something that fit in the conversation to me. :o) I don't think anyone should avoid it at all. As for my comment about it taking place in the work place. That wasn't to say it is to be ignored here. It was more of a lets all take a breath and handle this situation with our usual style and smile method :o) Not saying we should brush over the feelings stired by this. But, why not relax a little about 80% of what is read is interpreted by the reader and the mood of the reader. So if we are in a better mood maybe this wouldn't be the issue that it is? The way I see it... I came here to have some fun. And I think that was the general idea of the people that made the boards in the first place. Sides.... I just basically wanted to invite everyone over to the co-ed thread to have some fun and some laughs. :o) Er and some pizza, but, ya know I got dibbs on the mushroom/ham/peperoni/black olive/sausage. :o) er extra cheese :o) Jed :o) |
Lancecrossfire | Monday, January 27, 2003 - 11:41 am     I am looking forward to continuing discussions, answering questions, and asking a few of my own in this thread. For me, the topics that deal with everyday life or the philosophy of life are interesting—kind of like the question Merlin asked that I responded to. Big picture things we have no control of—war, the political offices and political parties—those have their own threads and own life. Merlin mentioned that if it’s just he and I that participate, it will get boring really fast. I don’t think it will get boring as much as it will be narrow, because there will be the views of only a couple people. I think that can get old. (ok, I’m a little boring!) I was great to see Weiner chime in, and in the past day, Mware, Bob, Jed and Loppes. I think back to the best date thread where a number of guys provided some great history that said something about their lives and what is important to them. As Bob mentioned, he usually posts “in character” of Sponge Bob. But I’ve also heard Bob say some things seriously about topics, and the same goes for other guys. I agree that what Merlin typically posts with doesn’t match who he is—well not completely. I think Merlin shows us some of his sides, but doesn’t show them all. I think Merlin has a lot of insight into a number of different aspects of life—after meeting him and talking to him, I’d say there is a lot more substance to Merlin than he typically shares with us. I hope other guys besides Merlin and I join in giving views and asking questions of each other. All I (or we) can do is provide an environment that gives incentives to posting such information about ourselves, opinions on topics and questions we have of others. That also includes the idea of keeping on topic, which is up to the people posting to have enough focus to make sure that happens. After that, it becomes individual desire to share or not share. Now to the belief of what can happen if one chooses to participate. I think what hinders that is feeling like you are being judged as to the type of person you inside by what you think or say. A stupid mistake does not equate to a stupid person. A great idea doesn’t make someone a genius. Not liking dogs doesn’t make someone cold hearted and insensitive. Going to the extreme on the gender thing—being a male doesn’t make you a jerk or care only about sex and nothing else, and being female doesn’t mean all you care about is money or hate sex. As far as getting feedback on my opinions or perspectives, I welcome issue oriented dialog. It can be positive or negative. It’s ok to agree to disagree about things. I realize folks come to the board to have fun—I do that too. I also come here to learn about who other people are—to get to know them as well as this type of forum allows. I also come to offer to show you who I am if you are interested in knowing that. Besides the guys I mention above, there are some others who post in the board. Crossfire, Draheid, Flint, Hillbilly, Monkeyboy, Nightcrawler, Ocean, Rabbit, Rogue, Ryn, Wiseolowl, Wilsonatmd, Crazydog, and probably a few others I’m probably missing—I hope you join in this forum. While the males may be lower in number than the female posters, it’s our choice to stay quiet or join in and share our perspectives. |
Rogue | Monday, January 27, 2003 - 03:13 pm     I'm here, Lance, just haven't had much to say in the last few nights. Mostly on get on here in the evenings when I have time to myself or after work now. Since I work in the squadron headquarters now, I kinda don't get to play as much, lol. Oh well, that's work for ya. This should probably go in the "right now" thread, but right now, I could use a serious back massage w/baby oil. Usually, I'm the one who gives em, but for once I'd like to be on the receiving end (and I'll kick the first guy who offers, lol). Okay, enough fantasy. Yeah, I'm w/you and Merlin, I like intellectual conversations about things we can't control and look forward to chiming in. Just bear w/me if I don't respond right away, some days are worse than others. And when my days are good, I do have alot to say, like today, haha. Look forward to the next topic! |
Nightcrawler | Monday, January 27, 2003 - 07:48 pm     ok my turn I don't post as much as i used too Bookie(my wife) is in here a LOT more then me she tells me whats going on and keeps me up to speed. when I do have a day off i do come in here and make my miss spelled posted.(yes I do know I spell very bad allways have)i'v took up weight lifting again and that takes up the time i used to post. i do like the bord alot. I love to see the differant views that we all have on evry thing. well after last nights bowl game i think we can all say that the raiders sucked in that game well i guess what I'm saying is that i hope this bord is around for a long time |
Crossfire | Monday, January 27, 2003 - 07:59 pm     Hehehe, seems we have been called on the carpet. I've been keeping my eye on things in here. I'll go on the record here committing myself to some participation on whatever comes up as the next issue. |
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