Erika Needs to Apologize to All Asians!
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Erika Needs to Apologize to All Asians!
Bohawkins | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:25 am     In every instance which Tide used to illustrate the points about associating a group with a negative assignment he/she was successful in casting aspersions on the group associated with the negative. Well done, I say! We are able draw a conclusion that the reason the person is a piece of sh*t is somehow connected to his association with the group. Frat boys... I can see that. Poetry writers... sure. In fact, I can see all but blonde (although soprano is borderline and would require further explanation). Blonde would work for me if for example it is a "bleached" blonde. The moment a negative association is coupled with any group an infererence is made that being a part of the group accounts for the assignment of a degrogatory state. If you say bleached blonde that tells me something about the person and certain assumptions could tend to be valid. Blonde, however does not allow any tie, negative or positive, unless we are speaking about qualities of appearance or you know that there is something about the condition of blondness which lets you make a generalization. Many blacks actually argue that making assumptions about them as a group is valid because of the so called "black experience" which has caused them to be effected universally. You should realize that I am talking only about accuracy of communication here (not the morality of it) and how to state what you are trying to say so that others understand your position. I also have several times made comments just like Erika about Koreans, because I have been so frustrated by the culture (as business people) and because I have seen that the stereotype does hold so true, I have felt comfortable in the statement. Stereotypes are not necessarily mistaken when there are pervasive cultural norms. When Erika said that about Jee, I knew exactly what she meant. I have seen a common mindset among them when it comes to the values which my own culture holds dear. It is hard to shake prejudices when you are never exposed to any member of a group which breaks the stereotype. I have found that I can make certain assumptions about Koreans (especially those "just off the boat"), and I am very successful in my business dealings with them because I have a very accurate (so far) appreciation of the culture the way it is right now. I have a similar understanding of frat boys. Now, in an ideal world we never, ever, ever cast an aspersion on another group, but in the real world it is not only valid but necessary for survival. So, if you truly want to communicate what you are actually wanting to say just be aware that when you say "that frat boy piece of sh*t," everyone gets your point. And I do agree with you on that one. |
Penpoint | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:59 am     Bo, you express yourself very well. I'm impressed. And you're brave to say something so un-PC no matter how based in reality your observation is. By the way, how do you feel about "that computer-nerd piece of sh*t"? ;-) |
Charvie | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:34 am     Also Jee made many racial comments towards Justin. He called Justin a Wop, a greaser and so on. Even though he was suppose to be joking, he usually said it when he was frustrated with Justin. Having known Italians those terms are very offensive and aren't said even in jest. But Jee felt that he could anytime he wanted. Did Justin demand a apology? Should Jee apologize to all Italians? I saw the look on Justin's face when Jee would say that. It was a very uncomfortable look. |
Monalisahi | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:50 am     Bo said: I also have several times made comments just like Erika about Koreans, because I have been so frustrated by the culture Here's the difference. Erika didn't say anything about Koreans for any reason.....she said something about JEE because of his words toward her. Jee just so happened to be a Korean. Had Jee been Italian, she would have said....Italian piece of sh.t. Had Jee been Irish, she would have said....Irish piece of sh.t....etc. Thus, the comment was not directed toward any race or nationality, it was clearly directed at Jee, a single person. Erika did apologize to Jee, the single person she insulted. |
Woodpecke® | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 11:39 am     I can't remember why Erika called Jee a "Korean piece of sh*t". Did it have to do with nominations? Refresh my memory, please. |
Meggieprice | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 11:54 am     OMG Wood you are so bad! lol! |
Monalisahi | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 12:08 pm     Wood, Jee had just called her a Californian silicon sl*t........lol. No, it was after noms where he had told her she made everybody in the house uncomfortable and was basically putting Michelle up against her as a pawn. |
Chippy | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 12:50 pm     Yeah, he'd pretty much told her in so many words that he wanted her out and she was going cause "he put his life on the line". LOL. When she was nominated AGAIN, she didn't repeat the performance that I'm aware of. I've thought they were all "a piece of sh*t" at one time or another- the other adjective connected to that just personalizes it. Oh, and HEY! I resemble those remarks about blondes. LMAO. |
Woodpecke® | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 02:08 pm     Let's review this. You can see people walking down the street and say: "Look at that guy, he's fat and repulsive." Or: "That woman is dressed like a tramp, she needs to cover that body, it looks like sh*t and makes me sick." Or: "Did that person's hair come with the nose and glasses." But you can't say Korean or Irish or German and then add an insult to it. All these things are wrong, but because a nationality is associated with it doesn't make it more incorrect. If anybody in this thread thinks that Erika ever owed Jee an apology for her remarks, it should have nothing to do with his family's nation of origin. This whole argument actually is completely ridiculous, and I'm going to continue to make fun of those who try to turn this into a huge problem. |
Chippy | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 03:06 pm     And I'll help ya. LOL! |
Julieboo | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 04:03 pm     I'll help ya too! |
Pascalle | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 05:06 pm     I think that most people are angry with the fact that Erika was called out live on the show and forced to explain and Jun and Ali were not called out for any one remark, just in general. |
Puzzled | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:29 pm     Go, Woodie, go! |
Pirate | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:57 pm     This may have been mentioned before but I didn't go back and read all the messages like I usually do. This is a little late in getting my comments out here, but I have been without a computer for 2 weeks!!! I think the one thing that was missing at the jury "round table" discussion was that nothing was mentioned about Robert and his remarks about the women in the house. None of the women sitting there said anything about Robert's and that he owed them all an apology. I guess since Julie mentioned it directly to Robert and Jee, CBS didn't want to give it more air-time. But I wanted to see the reaction of the women when they found out what Robert said. Robert just came across as a wounded and hurt single dad gunning for Ali. His attitude toward Ali and Jun was that what you said is unforgiveable, but the things I spewed out and my own daughter heard from my very own lips were OK. They were all a bunch of hypocrites. Dana, Justin, and Jee seemed to have just a little to much holier-than-thou attitude. Oh well, maybe BB5 will be better. One can only hope. |
Monalisahi | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:05 pm     Pirate, how do you know his daughter heard? |
Magicjet | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:19 pm     Pirate, I always thought that Dana, Justin and Jee(man of honor), were holier than thou from the moment they came in the house. I was glad when they were evicted. |
Cousin_Jake | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 05:15 am     I'm assuming there was a lot more time spent doing the round table discussion than we saw on TV. Maybe some of these issues were addressed but weren't shown in the edited version we saw last Wednesday. |
Pixieduster | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 08:43 am     Yes, Erika called Jee a Korean piece of s**t. But she could just as easily have said that black-haired piece of sh**. Would she then owe everyone with black hair an apology? Goodness, we all know there were numerous pieces of sh** floating around the BB4 house. Robert floated a few pieces around, so did Jun and Ali, etc. Had she just said, "that piece of sh**," poor David could have been very confused trying to determine who she was referring to. Erika was just clarifying which piece she was referring to. Now had she said all Koreans are pieces of sh**, then yes, it would be appropriate to make a blanket apology. |
Sherri | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 11:58 am     But Woody - the question is, is it wrong if you just think these things but you don't actually verbalize them? I know you will have the answer because your posts always seem to be the ones that make me laugh out loud and startle my sleeping dog. |
Woodpecke® | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 02:34 pm     Wrong to think that way? Yes. But I'm as guilty as the next person of thinking nasty thoughts about people I don't know. For example, that old, creepy woman at the gas station who holds up the line for 10 minutes while she writes a check for 2 Snickers bars and a Diet Coke, then, just as she is about to grab her loud, obnoxious grandson and bull her way out the door, drops her keys and decides to purchase 6 different varieties of instant lottery tickets while her kid proceeds to roam around the store looking for more candy and gum, plowing into everyone in line while everybody rolls their eyes. |
Earthmother | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 03:39 pm     Wood, I had no idea you knew my next door neighbor!! You don't want to know what I call her..lol |
Cangaroo | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 08:09 pm     Wow, if she Erika needs to apologize to all Asians for her remark, then I need to apoligize to all whites for making fun of my dear husband's "white chicky legs". All this time I thought I had been making fun of his skinny, pale-toned legs...come to find out I may have been offending not only all whites, but all white chickens. I am truly sorry ya'll. I'm AMERICAN of Asian descent...I hear crap nearly daily against people of ALL races. $hit happens and $hit gets said. I say just ignore it, get over it and get on with it. JMHO, mind you. |
Kmjm | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 10:21 pm     I don't want to get into this argument yet again, although I guess by posting I am, LOL. I just want to make an observation. Last week when they showed the clip of Erika making those admittedly unacceptable remarks, I noticed that she wasn't muttering them to herself, she was actually saying them to Dave, who was walking by her and gave a big smirk when he heard what she said. Is there a chance that this was some kind of joke, especially since others here say they had heard someone else (Jee or Jun?) say that same phrase earlier? Perhaps both she and David had heard the remark and she was repeating it as a kind of bad joke because she was angry. Erika didn't say anything else even remotely like that ever again about anyone, including Jee, and she had some stressful moments. And, as Meggie has repeatedly pointed out, she did vote for Jun to win in the end. Personally, I found Justin's mimicking of Jee's accent to be really out of line and very cruel. Yet no one called him on that. And Dave talked lots of trash too. |
Cangaroo | Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 10:42 pm     Oh, Kmjm...I thought I was the only one, so never mentioned it. Justin's CONSTANT mimicking of Jee irritated me no end. IMHO, they all talked trash, and I'm hoping for some of them ( I know in reality it would not be all) it was just "game play" to "fit in". All the trash talk, gay-bashing, racial slurs, age discriminatory and gender related put downs really bothered me, but I figure people will be people...meaning they all have feelings and will let their tempers get the best of them sooner or later. I'm not saying it's okay to talk like that, I'm just saying that people will talk trash no matter what. People talk about being "PC" these days. I think "PC" should NEVER have come into being because if we were all brought up with GOOD MANNERS, it just wouldn't have been necessary. Having good manners would encompass "no trash talking". I don't know if they all are as bad as THEY made themselves out to be (I hope not anyway). I do know they all displayed bad manners though. But, that being said...the show would not have been interesting at all if they were all minding their manners, so I'll not complain (too much). |
Tishala | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:04 am     Canga, with all due respect...if the problem were the "PC" language of the guests, we wouldn't be complaining. You are right about the "trash talk, gay-bashing, racial slurs, age discriminatory and gender[-]related" slams during the show, but that is precisely the kind of language "political correctness" tries to supress. In terms of language, in fact, "PC" used to just be called good manners. |
Cangaroo | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:29 pm     Oh Tishala....that was the very point I was trying to get across! If they had all been minding their manners, all the lack of "PC" stuff would have been non-existent, BUT, that being said, the show would not have been nearly as interesting. A paradox. |
Sherri | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:36 pm     Dang, Woody, you did it again! I can always count on you. Thanks |
Jeffo4him | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:16 pm     I too feel that assigning racial slur status to Erika's comments is inane. Remember she had just stormed out and David was, I believe, the only one outside. There were so many pieces of sh*t still in the house that had she not identified which one, David would have been completely confused. Then, realizing that there were two Koreans in the house, she added her "just off the boat" comment to indicate that it was Jee, the lesser intelligent of the two Koreans in the house. Again, I am always amazed by how much some people try to create racial tension where none exists. Its like they can't stand the "melting pot" without the unmelted lumps in it. Well, my spleen is vented. Feel free to call me an Irish piece of sh*t, it will in no way hurt any of my Blarney-kissing brethren. |
Woodpecke® | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:49 pm     Top 'O The Morning, Sh*thead!  |
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