Archive through September 29, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's words-From the Post Gazette online:
Archive through September 29, 2003
Meme9 | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 07:21 pm     Ali's idea of what it takes to be a lawyer...is scary to me. My son's goal as of now(he's a freshman is college...so it could change)is to go to law school. He doesn't look at it the same as Ali. He's learned the most important thing is to tell the truth, and if there is a problem, work on a solution. Much easier to find a solution when you know what the problem really is.(Hope he keeps thinking that way.) |
Seamonkey | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 07:38 pm     Ali's father is a lawyer.. and judging from his enthusiasm for her "techniques" and his having an affair, of course she thinks that lying and deception are fundamentals of getting ahead in life. More of a Dad thing than an attorney thing. |
Meme9 | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 07:46 pm     Yes Sea, I agree. I forgot for a moment that her father was a lawyer...so we know where she may have learned it. |
Monalisahi | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 08:34 pm     Seamonkey, I thought it was her mom who had the affair. |
Seamonkey | Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 09:39 pm     Yes, her mother did as well, as I remember it |
Queenfish | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 07:34 am     Geez, and we wonder what has happend to todays youth. Here it is in black and white. Parents teach their children to lie, cheat, backstab and anything else they can do to get whatever they want. And when you are caught at it just blame someone else or blame the circumstances and you never have to take responsibility for your own actions.The best part is that there are many people out there who will condone your actions because they don't like to take responsibility either. They will quickly come to your defense against people who want to make you take responsibility. You can call those people who have morals, intollerant or not politically correct, and in the long run still get your way regardless of your actions. Thankfully all young American Adults are not like Ali (although many are). Maybe there is still hope, but it seems grim. If you feel you must call me out on this post go ahead, bring it on. If you must defend Ali's actions, be my guest, condone to your hearts content. But don't expect all of us to agree with you who hold her on a pedistal. It is, IMHO, a sad, sad state when the top two finalist are young American women who behave this way. So go ahead, rip my post apart, but it doesn't change their actions. The actions that they should be questioned about and forced to take responsibility for. OK, I have that outta my system, now. |
Katlady53 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:10 am     Queenfish: "Thankfully all young American Adults are not like Ali (although many are)." Queenfish, both of my kids (ages 21 and 23) watched BB, and they were appalled by Ali and Jun's behavior. Thank God! |
Maris | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:34 am     I think a lot of behavior is condoned. I read all the appalled posts about Ali and Juns behavior and then I open a thread about apologies to Buzzards and read the venomous posts about Dana, someone, who was booted from the game very early on and in my mind whose only crime was being a bit too emotional. So what is the difference between Alis vicious statements and the posts in the Buzzards thread? It is pot calling the kettle and not just a crime committed by youth. |
Monalisahi | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:35 am     Maris......Dana isn't a 7 yr old. That's the difference....of course, I only speak for myself. |
Cameramanbob | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:40 pm     Hey, Queenfish - Excellent post. Not exactly my point of view (I'm wishy-washy & easily influenced by others LOL) but good points. I am of the view that Ali is absolutely as mature as she CAN be - just a gut feeling from watching her. I also feel that many North Americans subscribe to a view that "2nd place is unacceptable." Teach your kid that and either they rebel or they become like Ali. Sad thing is, that there are SO many other philosophies for success - just look around... |
Maris | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:32 pm     Ah so all the outrage about Ali and Jun is solely confined to the comments about a 7 year old. That makes a difference. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:38 pm     Well Maris for one thing as the author of the thread on buzzards, it was meant as a parody, and obviously nearly every post took it in that spirit. I thought that was pretty obvious. Unless I am missing the humor in your post, which is possible as well <g>. |
Maris | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:41 pm     I guess it is all in what you find humorous, after all Jun thinks she is pretty funny too. People find excuses for saying venomous and debasing things yet seem to want to crucify others for doing the same thing. Jun and Ali use the excuse that it is all game, others use the excuse that Dana deserves it or it is all humor. I dont see much difference, that is all. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:49 pm     I think Jun was pretty funny too, as did many of us watching. At times she went too far, but I enjoyed her more than any other HG this year or maybe since the beginning of BB. And I am not part of a if-you-like-Jun-you-can't-like-Dana divide; I didn't have any big problems with her except that she didn;t have a clue how to play the game, unlike Jun. |
Onlyhuman | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 02:57 pm     The important thing about making fun of others as "humor" is to know when you cross the line, which is sometimes difficult to see. In the house, Jun, Jack, Robert, Ali, Jee and Erika once had a conversation (while Justin was in the DR) which Jun began by asking the others if they noticed that Justin did not laugh at their "jokes" about Dana. All commented on how they had, in fact, noticed this and that it surprised them. Jee remarked that he thought that Justin had been falling in love with Dana and that's why he didn't find them funny. Jun's comment was that it was a good thing that they had stopped that (by evicting Dana). I remember this conversation so clearly because, watching it, I realized that none of these people felt any remorse about the constant put downs of Dana, even though they were obviously aware that there was at least one person who did not find them funny. Of these six, only Jee even attempted to say that maybe they should cut back on it, something the rest of them completely ignored. The lack of consideration was absolutely astounding to me. I followed the apologies to buzzards thread for a while and I could see why some of the people felt that they were gently making fun of another thread. (Which, in and of itself is a little cruel, but I won't go there.) I felt that the thread gradually got more and more vicious, with more and more negative comments being made about Dana and I started to wonder where it would end. It is accepted here (and on most BB boards) that Dana is an appropriate target of ridicule. As long as no one actively objects, the put downs and "humor" will continue. It was condoned in the house and has been subtly condoned here. I just wonder at what point people will start wondering if they have crossed the line. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:20 pm     Onlyhuman Again, I intitiated the Buzzard's threat as a parody of another thread (the one about Erika needing to apologize to all Asians.) The idea that it was meant to knock Dana is beyond silly. It was tongue in cheek. I thought it would get a couple chuckles; instead it became my biggest success in this board, and one of the most fun threads there have been. It obviously was not meant as a putdown of Dana. I just went back through all 72 posts. Exactly 5 even mention Dana, and in only 1 is there anything resembling a putdown of her. I have no idea what you are referring to about it becoming more and more negative about her. Could you elucidate in case I am missing something? |
Maris | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:31 pm     The whole reference to Buzzards crotch in Big Brother was a put down of Dana. Perhaps you missed that part of the show and was unaware of that fact. So you will have to forgive someone if they make the connection that when they read a thread suggesting that someone should apologize to buzzards for insulting them, one might, take it as an insult directed at Dana even if it is in humor. |
Reader234 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:34 pm     elucidate... great, now I have to go get a dictionary or make a guess that you want something more clarified... eesh, I know I'm supposed to learn something everyday... <g> (and congrats on the thread, I really enjoyed it!!) roflol - couldnt resist a google search: "Stephen's Guide Failure to Elucidate Definition: The definition is harder to understand than the term being defined. ... So this definition fails to elucidate" |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:43 pm     It would be a putdown of Dana if it weren't so obviously tongue in cheek and a parody. If anything, since the point of the title is to ridicule the idea that Erika needed to apologize to all Asians, I wanted to write something that was even more ridiculous (a la that Jack should apologize to buzzards). I still am not convinced you are not pulling my leg here -- this is as silly a thing as I've ever had to defend. I never even thought of Dana when the title came to me. And since she was barely referred to in the thread, neither did the posters. |
Twiggyish | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:45 pm     Queenfish, I like your post!! |
Onlyhuman | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 03:48 pm     Though you may not have meant it, the thread was one giant put down of Dana, starting with the idea that Jack had insulted buzzards by comparing them to Dana and her sex appeal. Other posters somehow felt the need to bring up her other nickname and then of course we have the whole idea that Dana owes an apology to the buzzards for being insulted at being compared to them, implying that Dana should be thrilled that she was considered even that attractive. I get that the thread was a parody and I understand that you were, in fact, mocking those who were offended by Erika's remarks about Jee. I just felt that it took the easy route, directing the insults at Dana because it is acceptable to do so. Like I said, humor at other's expense is a delicate matter. I can see the humor in the thread and I can see that people were being playful and having a good time. Maybe it's just my sensitivity to the matter, because I thought that Dana became an easy target for too many people both inside and outside the house. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:02 pm     Thanks for your words Onlyhuman, but I totally disagree that the thread was one giant putdown of Dana. The thread speaks for itself; it and the posters need no further defence from me. I have enough of a regard for Dana that my guess is that she would find it as funny (and as unrelated to her) as nearly everyone else does. I used this phrase as I said before because it was the most memorable insult on the show. Again, the idea that it was hurled at Dana did not even come up in the 5 seconds it took for the idea to come to me. And if you still aren't convinced, go back and look at the history of my posts - I doubt you'll find I ever said a negative word about her beyond her weak game skills. |
Chippy | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 05:00 pm     Never once did I view that thread as a put down to Dana. I liked Dana. I LMAO when Jack said that in the diary room. If I remember correctly, there was quite a long thread on it just after it happened. I thought Sean's thread was hysterical and by no means insulting to anyone except me when someone said I shouldn't google buzzard's crotches anymore. LOL! I must have read a whole different thread or something. |
Queenfish | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 05:50 pm     thanks cameramanbob and twiggyish. Hey sean- I love the buzzard parody. Thanks for initiating the laughs. |
Onlyhuman | Monday, September 29, 2003 - 07:30 pm     Chippy said "Never once did I view that thread as a put down to Dana." And that is the point I was trying to make with the whole using humor angle. What some people see as humorous, others might take as an insult when you are involving people in the discussion. The people in the house thought their insults of Dana were humorous. They saw them as "jokes", especially Jun. The problem with making people the target of your humor is that it can go too far. I thought the house went way over the top and I thought the parody thread could easily do that as well. As long as people are aware of that, then I have no problem with it. |
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