Archive through September 26, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Jury- Poor sports and Hypocrites:
Archive through September 26, 2003
Sherri | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:10 pm     Sorry mods! Sometimes my fingers go too fast and I forget to censor myself. Thanks for all you've done this year. |
Wendo | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:12 pm     Maris said, "Wendo they didnt exhibit class or maturity inside the house, why would you expect it outside the house?" Good point! You're so clear and concise Maris. Kalekona said, "Crazydog - my point was he did apologize when it was brought up to him. The girls did not and had the chance to do so." Uhm, at this point that we know of, the girls haven't had it brought up to them in the way it was brought up to Robert. I'll comment on what they do after they've been made aware of their behavior. "Whatever you think about Robert at least he KNEW what he said was wrong. These two do not. And Ali is still blaming the jury for it." Yeah, he knew it was wrong ONCE he was TOLD it was wrong. IMO, Robert told Jun and Ali about what Julie said (when on the houses) because he was laughing about it, not because he felt bad about it. (I watched, he was laughing.) Once he saw that neither Jun nor Ali were laughing, he relized what he was saying was wrong and apologized. And, as I said above, Jun and Ali haven't had this opportunity. Hopefully they will. (And, hopefully they'll do a better job of apologizing then Erika. I have to agree, her apology was rather half-assed.) Earthmother said, "The obvious reaction for an adult when getting caught doing or saying something inappropriate is to apologize. Erika did it, Jee did it, Jack did it Robert did it and Nate did it..I didn't hear any apologies from Dana, Justin, Ali or Jun. I guess they are exempt.." Like I said above, Jun and Ali haven't been specifically confronted by their bad comments and behavior. (Nor were Dana and Justin from what we saw on last nights show.) I said this in another thread, one cannot apologize nor gain a learning experience until the bad deeds are pointed out to you. |
Crazydog | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:20 pm     I agree with you Wendo re Robert apologizing, and I said something similar earlier. He was remarking about his conversation with Julie in a "heh heh wouldyabelieve" manner. Once he saw Jun and Ali's reactions, it is natural to apologize, especially when he might have needed one of these two to take him to the finals. And I also agree that had Jun and Alison been confronted with the comments in the way he had been confronted by Julie and the online chat, they probably would have apologized too. Erika was very vague in her question - she should have been more specific and said something like "why did you feel the need to badmouth me when I was nominated with Jack, I thought you were my friend". Instead, she says something very general about trashtalking that sounded more like a jab than a question. Robert was disgusted with Jun's answer. Why then didn't he ask a question of his own. Had he said something like "why did you feel it was necessary to call my daughter a little bizatch", I bet Jun would have apologized. When you are confronted with something head on, there is a natural tendency to apologize, even if you don't mean it. |
Efilon | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:31 pm     A few thoughts... Seems I remember Jun in the hammock crying about Bob and Rob sitting there and talking with her and making her feel better. Not that that makes him a great guy but he did show compassion and really tried to help her feel better. Erika: She said "I said I'd vote for the person that got me out." I believe she felt that Jun worked Alison better than she (Erika) did and therefore was the one who actually got her out. Jack: Everyone is giving him props and he was probably the best houseguest, of course he's got 30 to 40 years on most of them, but has anyone stopped to think that his remark to Jun was a back-handed slam to Ali? Who thought she was the smartest person in the house? Ali, what did Jack say to Jun? "You were the smartest person in the house." That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it! |
Efilon | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:45 pm     One more thing: Are people saying that only if the houseguest are called out on national tv do they need to apologize? Ali and Jun both had chances to apologize when the voters were asking their one question each and it didn't even seem to cross their minds that maybe they should. They are adults...they had things pointed out to them and they didn't even blink as they made pretty snide responses, no apologies or regrets shown. Also, everyone keeps going on about how short the voters were with their remarks. How long did that segment last? Maybe 4 minutes? I'm sure they were told to keep it short and they did. Or, maybe they heard Jun and Alison going on all day about what they were going to say and do to the returning houseguests if they called them on anything and just wanted to make sure they didn't give them a chance. Who knows? Wow, talk about run-on sentences! Sometimes I can't stop. |
Deedee | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:48 pm     Efilon said
Quote:what did Jack say to Jun? "You were the smartest person in the house."
Efilon I agree. When Jack said that I had a mental of image of an intoxicated Ali in the HT, with slightly slurred speech telling Justin. "No one is this house is smarter than me." I felt that telling Jun that she was the smartest person to play the game was Jack's way of doing 3 things. 1)maintaining his integrity, 2)Congratulating Jun and 3)still letting Ali know that she was not as smart as she thought she was. |
Crazydog | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:52 pm     <<One more thing: Are people saying that only if the houseguest are called out on national tv do they need to apologize? Ali and Jun both had chances to apologize when the voters were asking their one question each and it didn't even seem to cross their minds that maybe they should.>> No, I am saying that WHEN you are called out, there is more of a tendency to apologize. Look at all the comments the evicted houseguests made about each other behind each other's backs. None of them felt the need to apologize until they were actually called out about it. If Jee hadn't said anything to Erika, I don't think she would have apologized. If Dana hadn't said anything to Jack, he wouldn't have apologized. These people made these comments eons ago and are only just now apologizing, only because someone else called them on it. Even though they had plenty of chances while in the house. So why then are we trying to hold Jun and Ali to a higher standard? Some posters here are suggesting that Jun and Ali should feel remorseful and should just apologize. But until they know exactly what it is the voters saw, they have no idea what they are apologizing for. If the evicted houseguests were looking for apologies, they asked the wrong questions. They needed to refer to a specific incident, just like everybody else who elicited an apology did. |
Puzzled | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:59 pm     IMO, if the jury had walked in, hugging Ali and Jun and smiling, and being all fakey-fakey, that would have been hypocritical. I think they realised what a diaster BB had been in terms of everyone's behaviour--there was more than enough guilt to go around. At least, at the end, they were real. |
Vealprince | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:02 pm     I think the hypocracy level would have been reduced if BB had allowed Jun and Alison to review the same tapes of the show that the Jury had seen. Once the vote was cast, I don't see what the problem was. It was as if the Jury was feeling superior because they knew things these girls could not have known. Jun mentioned that things might be different once THEY get to see the Diary Room and she is right. |
Cousin_Jake | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:04 pm     It would have made a great couple of days on the live feeds if BB had allowed us to watch Jun and Ali watching all the tapes of the shows. Now THAT would have made the feeds worthwhile! |
Monalisahi | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:05 pm     Ummmmm, Ali and Jun had no idea of what Robert had said about them. He told them. So I don't see what the "calling out" has to do with it unless you are talking about Julie asking him about it in private. Speaking of being called out on something, the girls had ample opportunity to apologize during the questioning (granted, we truly don't know if they did or didn't) but also when questioned by Julie. |
Crazydog | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:10 pm     Ummmmmm, nobody called them out on anything. I didn't hear anybody specifically questioning them on specific incidents, as others did of each other. And I agree with Vealprince, it's not fair to expect Jun and Ali to apologize for things when they haven't even seen the tapes. If Jun and Ali had seen the tapes, and then asked if they wanted to apologize for anything, then yes, I agree, they should. But at that time, they were on an uneven playing field - the houseguests were expecting some sort of general apology when Jun and Ali didn't know what it was they were being asked to apologize for. And I firmly believe that Robert would not have apologized to Jun and Ali had not Julie or the internet person said anything. The comments were made at least a week before he actually apologized. He had ample opportunity during that time to do so. |
Chippy | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:18 pm     That theory that Ali and Jun didn't apologize because they weren't "called out" is hysterical. My gawd, these two boasted about the things they said and did to every houseguest in BB4 and even called themselves bi*ches like they were proud of it. Not only that, they (especially Ali) also told all of us just what they were going to say/do if the jury dare to confront them on what they did "to win the game". They all know when they crossed the line and it shouldn't have to be pointed out to any of them. Robert did not repeat the performance after the chat with Julie and Erika's comments to Jee WHICH I'LL SAY AGAIN THAT JEE SAID HIMSELF were a one time deal. How on earth can you compare them to the Ali/June bash & trash fests. Even the LF posters had to walk away because it got that long and that bad. I cannot even believe that anyone can compare Jack/Erika's comments or any other hg for that matter to Ali & Jun. Besides all that, after seeing ali boast her acting abilities episode after episode in the DR, who'd ever believe a word out of her mouth or a tear out of her eye. They got exactly what they deserved- except for the money part. |
Monalisahi | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:23 pm     Crazy, didn't Erika ask Jun about personal attacks? Wasn't Jun's response that she was sure others were doing it and she wanted to get a couple of digs in? Does anybody remember, did Robert tell Erika about those comments after talking to Julie earlier in the week? |
Earthmother | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:28 pm     Wendo, I was referring to adult behavior. If you call someone on something they did to you when you know you did the same thing, but somehow it wasn't shown to you..do you own up or do you try to make that person feel bad? Obviously we got our answer. |
Steveh | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:37 pm     Great post Chippy. Thanks. When folks invoke the behavior of others to defend Jun and Ali, it's not really a defense, it's changing the subject. I will reiterate and support what you say: In terms of quantity and (low) quality, volume and sheer intensity, and, finally, tone (threatening, condescending, imperious, haughty, inappropriately sarcastic, etc.) no other house guest came close to these two. |
Zgoodgirl | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:52 pm     A lot of people are mentioning how Robert apologized for the comments that he made. If I recall, soon after that apology (or apologies), he mentioned how no one back at home will be surprised about the way he was in the house, except maybe of course, his 'b****es'. I think I would rather have no apology at all instead of a fake one. |
Coffee | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:59 pm     Robert's namecalling was no where close to Jun and Alison. I think people believe it worse because BB showed the same clip so many times. If they would of shown the clips of Ali and Jun and their horrid sayings (after they knew they were the final 2) only once it would have probably taken the better part of the show. |
Seamonkey | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:59 pm     Believe me they could have shown scores of different clips of Robert spewing venom about the women.. I cannot say how many times I typed the words and how many I heard and didn't time.. <shudder> |
Guinevere | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:17 pm     >Robert's namecalling was no where close to Jun and Alison.< This keeps getting repeated as if it's a fact, and that irks me a bit. Y'all do realize that that's an OPINION, right? Others have a different opinion. |
Markty | Friday, September 26, 2003 - 03:01 am     You people keep arguing over Roberts words and Roberts apology and trying to speculate as to what his real intention was or wasn't or if he meant it etc.. etc... The point is NOT whether Robert meant it or not. The point is the reaction of the 2 women. The 2 women who said crueler things about others, the 2 women who laughed and mocked others With all that disgusting behavior and after having heard someone else actually fess up to making comments and apologize they had the nerve to get angry. They were 2 hypocrites What was it they were angry at Robert about?? Saying things that were far less cruel and hurtful than what they had said? Angry that he apologized? To guess or give opinions as to whether Robert was sincere or not is irrelevant. Only Robert (not Ali, not Jun, not any of us) knows. But Ali and Jun and all of us know (and knew)of all the cruel things they said about other house guests (and their families) And knowing all that these 2 got angry at Robert??? That is what sickens me about the 2 biggest hypocrites in the house. My posts have in NO WAY been meant to defend Robert or claim he is/was a saint only to point out the ugliness of the 2 hypocrite finalists. |
Jimmer | Friday, September 26, 2003 - 06:31 am     Agreed. Absolutely amazing considering that Ali and Jun repeatedly used the same or worse language to describe other women inside and outside the house. Even more amazing that they continued to do so after condemning Robert for it. |
Chippy | Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:05 am     Exactly, Markty! Their reaction just floored me considering I had feeds and read all the LF postings. I mean, my gawd! They both knew they'd at least equaled Robert's comments. We knew the surpassed them (IMO). Not only that, they used his confession to justify everything they did and said after that. Well, after all, he called us b8tches, tramps, and sluts! We'll show him!!!! |
Immunity_Man | Friday, September 26, 2003 - 01:52 pm     I honestly believe the jury's reaction was warranted. Ali and Jun are not very likeable people. Sure there have been villains on other BB shows, but they've always been playful, cartoonish, campy and fun to watch, but not these 2. IMO, I think the jury reacted the way most viewers felt and I thank them. |
Guinevere | Friday, September 26, 2003 - 03:15 pm     >You people keep arguing over Roberts words and Roberts apology and trying to speculate as to what his real intention was or wasn't or if he meant it etc.. etc... >The 2 women who said crueler things about others, the 2 women who laughed and mocked others >Saying things that were far less cruel and hurtful than what they had said?< And you people keep expressing opinions as if they were facts. It's not a fact that what Robert said was "far less cruel and hurtful" than what J&A said. It's an opinion. There is a difference. Why can't you see that? |
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