Archive through September 23, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread: Archive through September 23, 2003

Murph

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 02:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Spike763, it happened around August 23-25 during the time that Jack and Erika were on the block. Robert and Jee wanted Erika out and Ali agreed with them to their face to vote Erika out.

She and Jun had discussed that Ali did not like Jack; he made her feel creepy. Ali was afraid the guys would be mad if she went against them so she and Jun discussed setting Jack up. First, Jee was told that Jack looked in the bedroom windows at the girls. ( this happened) The next part of their plan was for Ali to wait until Jack sat beside her or something and the she would start crying, running to the guys that Jack did or said something.

I remember lots of discussion on the boards regarding this and people saying that they had written to CBS about the girls making up stories about Jack. I don't know if the producers called them on it or not but suddenly the discussion stopped cold turkey.

Later after Jack and Erika both were gone Jun and Ali discussed their first impressions of the house guests and Ali said Jack looked like a child molester.

Ali seemed to have a problem with Jack from the beginning, often referring to him as a pervert. I remember thinking that his age being around the same as her dad made her uncomfortable when Jack would try to fit in with some of his remarks. I thought she was probably thinking "if my dad said that I would be grossed out" Just my opinion.

Naja

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 02:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Avrey & Carrie, Thank you. I posted one comment from Jun and one comment from Ali from a conversation that was covered in the post above mine that left out that they were trash talking, and all hell broke loose..LOL I had to add those comments because the trash parts of their conversation were completely missing from the LF posts. I was adding in the missing parts.

Crossfire

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 02:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Was this today, or in the past? I had a quick scan through todays posts, and found no indication that LFP's shouldn't post what they hear.

Naja

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 02:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cross, the complaint towards me was removed already.

Crossfire

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 02:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ahhh, ok. Ooops. Thanks. :)

Steveh

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 03:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh Muttley . . .

How does dressing like a strawberry, etc. legitamize calling someone a " child molester." That's a very specific term, one that has caused lots of problems over the past 20 years for people (lots of them white adult males) FALSELY accused of being one. As someone else has pointed out in this thread, Ali went so far as to begin a plan for accusing Jack of being a "pervert." It might not matter what Jack thought of the epithets or how he took them. Once people start seeing Jack's name and the phrases in the same sent. who knows what could happen. Firing those words at someone indiscriminately and repeatedly have the same effect as asking someone that unanswerable question, "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"

Also, don't forget Ali was quick to semi-cry "wolf" when it came to Scott and has raised the spectre of "reporting" other hg behaviors--real & imagined--to the BB staff.

Mkcantjump

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 05:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
testing

Meggieprice

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 06:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
there were some panicky moments when I thought I might be the only one...

Nexell2

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 06:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks to those who did the archive research. From the little bit of research I did I was able to confirm that Jun had a dream in which Jack was a molestor. She told it to Ali to which Ali replied that she "could so see Jack as a child molestor" At no time did she accuse him of being an actual molestor. Then the girls discussed ways to get Jack out of the house. They concocted a plan in which they would go to Jee3 or Jee himself, and tell him that Jack made them nervous with his "perv" staring. As far as I can tell there was no actual accusation of Jack molesting children. They did refer to him as a "perv" on several seperate occasions. I hope this clears things up a little and the matter can be laid to rest.

Gina8642

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 08:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Avery, Carrie, and Naja - that's me you're bashing so I thought I would respond. Yes, I dared to make a comment on the LFs - let me point out my side:

In my defense, since you can no longer read my post - or know what I intended, I'll try to explain it here. First, I posted directly on the LFs because I thought if it was posted anywhere else Naja would not notice for many hours and I thought that was the quickest method. I thought the post was polite and pretty far from 'all hell breaking loose' - but I guess that's a judgement - so judge away. I asked the mod.s to remove my post from the LFs because it didn't belong there.

What I asked for in the post was for Naja to stop cherry picking/highlighting only negative comments. I suggested if she wanted to highlight only comments she found objectionalbe that Alison's debate thread was a more appropriate area.

While I listened to the LFs I heard a whole bunch of stuff being discussed.
-I heard fond memories of HGs,
-I heard compliments of HGs,
-I heard some analytical comments about strategies of HGs,
-and I heard some put downs of HGs.

What Naja did was ignore everything else they were talking about and only posted the negative (the putdowns). I pointed out that the LFs are supposed to be unbiased. My point was that if you are going to post, you should post all of that - not just the negative highlihgts - as Naja was doing.

No one else at the time was going into any detail at all about the convo which I was listening to - Naja was the only one taking the time to write anything down word for word. So, the only word for word transcription was the negative stuff.

So anyway - if you want to keep on bashing me and saying I caused 'all hell to break loose' because I tried to make a polite request - go on. If you would like to deliberatly misinterprete me to be some sort of monster for making a request for unbiased LFs - go on.

Dram

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 08:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"The tempo is to •••••, moan and complain about Ali and Jun."

Oh, I'm sorry I actually thought this was the debate thread. I really need to get on board the Ali and Jun love train...now, where is that thread exactly?

Avrey258

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 08:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina,
I never said "all hell broke loose". I was commenting on the fact that a LF poster was being admonished to take it to the debate thread because her postings were not positive.
Naja can speak to this herself but she stated that there were things she heard that were left out of the postings.
I just came on-line so I don't know what was being said in the house. I just assumed that if someone else heard a conversation that left out things, that person would post it themselves.
I know that a poster can't get everything word for word but calling her post biased is not accurate. She wrote what she heard and she did not editorialize it.

Mkcantjump

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 09:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If I understand it right then the majority of comments posted quoting Ali and Jun on the live feed updates were the negative things they said and their other comments were left out? Very interesting.

Earthmother

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 09:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina perhaps you could share with us some of the positive comments that were left out of that live feed post...I for one would love to hear them.

As someone who has listened to the negative comments daily, hourly and by the minute, there really weren't too many positives so if I could hear one I would be grateful.

Personally I don't think when someone sits for what seems like hours saying "that fu%&*&*g jerk, I hate him. I wish he would drown in the pool and I hate his kid the bi**h" followed by "but he dances really good." as a positive. This of course is a hypotheical conversation, but very close to what we have heard for weeks now.

Irisrose

Monday, September 22, 2003 - 10:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I find Gina's observations very interesting, as well as the debate put to rest about what was actually said about Jack as to what some wanted it to be.

Misslibra

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 01:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Earthmother your absolutely right. I canceled my live feeds, and have not watched them since part one of the last HOH comp, but still have them. (I guess because the month of September had already been paid for off my credit card) What a waste of money anyhow, I turned them on last night to see if perhaps the girls had cool down on some of their bashing of other HG's no such luck. I listen to the girl's continue to rip apart certain HG's, just as they had been doing before when I was watching LF's. I heard very few positive comments.

The bashing mean comments far out weight any positive comments. So there is a very good reason Naja was posting a lot of negative versus positive. And why anyone would have to explain or defend what they heard coming from these two girl's mouths when we are talking about Jun and Ali is beyond me unless your in deep denial about these two girls, and are their biggest fans and the truth being reported in LF's and certain threads about them are bothering you so much you just can't stand to hear the negativity that is being reported spewing from Jun and Ali mouth's on a daily basis. Which is why you find some people trying to shoot the messenger.

We all know how nasty and negative these girl's can be. And I know some of you really like these two so I understand it being hard to hear so much negativity about your favorite HG's. You always feel the need to defend them even though some of the things they have did in the game are inexcusable in my opinion and a lot of other people's opinion.

Naja keep reporting what you hear be it negative or positive. If some people can't handle the truth that isn't your problem, that is their problem. When Robert was repeatedly making mean nasty comments about other HG's most of us were disgusted. Ali and Jun seem to be following in his foot steps.

Just because they are females don't make them any different then when Robert was doing it. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now, game or no game, the game is over votes are in but yet the girl's still find the need to bash other HG's, who they know nothing really about outside of the game.

I hope now that the other Hg's have voted that some of them will watch the live feeds so they can hear what these two girl's are saying. That way they wont have to get it second hand they can get it straight from the horses mouth. I'm still looking forward to BB5. I figured this was the bottom of the barrel this year things can only go up from here.

And for those of you who can't stand to hear the truth being reported about your favorite HG's, the two left in the house the best advice I can give is to suck it up and deal, because it is was it is ugly warts and all.

Wendo

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 01:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Heck, replace Ali's name with Lisa, and Jack's name with Gerry, and we've got a topic from last year. I say let's pull those posts from last year (when Lisa did the same to Gerry), put them here in the debate thread, and save ourselves some time. Anyone?! Anyone?! Bueller?

Misslibra

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Your trying to deflect what is going on this year with last year. Nice try but it's not going to work. This thread is about this years cast. Stay on topic and deal with this years. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for some but you can do it I know you can. :)

Wendo

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
*looks from side to side quickly*

Who!? Me?! How dare you insinuate such a thing! *acts indignant*

Just trying to save everyone some time and frustration is all...pinky swear!

Muttley

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
steveh,

Rather than saying that "dressing like a strawberry, etc. legitamize calling someone a ' child molester.'", what I said was that


Quote:

the hg himself wouldn't have a problem with the relating of a dream where he was mentioned as a molester.....He seems self-aware and also cognizant of human nature. He KNOWS Ali and Jun, remember. I'm sure he gives them both full credit for the weight that comment carries.




There's a difference. I'm not stating that one causes the other. I am saying the guy doesn't take himself seriously, nor his actions, nor the actions of others, as evidenced by both his behavior and his reactions to the behaviors he has witnessed in others.


Also, to bring up something I alluded to earlier, there's another example in this thread of lf recaps having different interpretations. Hence, my earlier comments about judging for yourself only after seeing for yourself-- and reading some of the editorial omissions or suggested inflections on a feed recap isn't the same thing.

You watch. I watch. You and I have formed definite opinions of the hgs based on what we saw. I submit that the late-remaining hgs are 1)all similarly bad in similar ways, and 2) they don't need the help of embellishment or hysteria to make them more so.

Misslibra

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
((((Wendo))) :)

Wendo

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Back at ya babe! (((Misslibra)))

Irisrose

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 04:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Who has to be defended? If Alison and Jun were the type that needed defending, they would have no fans and they do have fans. They don't need anyone to defend them, they take care of themselves just fine. It is not hard for me at all to hear the "spewing" on this board. They don't give a rodent's behind what you think of them. Neither do their fans. It's a moot point really. The game is over and they both carry money away. That's it.

Irisrose

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 04:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
200

Prisonerno6

Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 04:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"What I asked for in the post was for Naja to stop cherry picking/highlighting only negative comments."

How about posting LFs yourself for a more balanced record of events?