Archive through September 12, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through September 12, 2003

Tatyana

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Could be Busy but also probably the majority of the people who vote for Alison over at CBS don't watch the live feeds and only see her on the TV show, which doesn't show her in all her nastiness.

Gina8642

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think the majority of the people here dispise Alison. I just think those that do are very vocal. If you pay attention you will notice that many of her more vocal and serious objectors post over and over again. Also, if you post anything that is remotely not anti-Alison, your post will quickly be attacked. Which makes the folks who do not despise her keep their opinions to themsleves.

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tatyana: I hadn't thought of that. That could be.

Gina: I hadn't thought of that, either! I think you're right, though. I enjoy and agree with a lot of your posts, BTW. Just wanted to let you know. : )

Texasdeb

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't see anything in Ali that I would find positive if I wanted to hang out with a person - that's not the set-up of this whole experience. I do feel that we've seen somewhat real world personality traits in almost all the HGs. How could someone be so "that way" 24/7 for nearly 3 months & not be "that way" in their everyday lives? Look at Jack,Jee,Erika,Justin, - even Robert has shown us positive traits in his personality. Jun - she showed us nurturing qualities (cooking/cleaning/consoling others). I'm sorry folks, but I see Me,Me,Me as Ali's strongest personality trait & it just gets uglier & uglier as we are forced to see it more.

Sherri

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"I thought she majored in Economics with a minor in Cheese History."

Woodpecker - you always entertain me and I appreciate your humor daily :)

If I knew "Ali" as she has acted on BB4, I would be very concerned for her. I would think she was probably a sociopath and/or narcissistic (sp?) and that she was in great need of some intense therapy, maybe to the point of going to some clinic for a couple of months. But, as I don't know the real Alison, I choose to have hope that she is a much different person than "Ali".

Spear

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's been discussed here before that some people are probably tampering with Alison's ratings on that site. If you look at the history, it's been making wild swings up and down the charts lately. She went from 30% to 70% in week 5. No other HG's ratings are changing like that.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Charvie said, "I look at the bashing like this. When Amy and Marcellus bashed Chiara and Tonya, Chiara and Tonya were both behaving in ways that were unbecoming of young ladies. They may have gone over the top in the bashing, but it was directly correlated to their behavior in the BB house."

Interesting. So, if a HG behaves inappropriately, according to another HG's standards, then bashing is ok because it "directly correlates" to said behavior? Again, I disagree. Bashing is bashing, no matter how it's wrapped up and delivered.

"Neither Jack nor Erika displayed or warranted the bashing Ali and Jun and Robert heap upon them. Sure Erika may have made a comment or two or Jack may have been iffy in a comment, but not to the level that Ali and Jun and Robert speak about it."

I would argue for Robert here. There were countless times during the course of Erika's stay in the house where she was less than complimentary to him. Even going so far to use their past relationship to gain people's trust and get them on her "side". As for Ali and Jun, it appears that the things they don't like in other HG in the game (game moves, betrayals, etc.) they express inappropriately. Instead of saying, HG X pissed me off with that game move, they say, HG X pissed me off. Misdirected anger and frustration would be something I would suggest. (Robert too.)

"Also there is something soo low about including a persons outside lifestyle, family or friends in the bashing. I mean Ali and Jun dragged Erika's mom into their bashing. They discussed her form of making a living and whether she had friends and her body into it. Not her behavior but the essence of who she is or they percieved her as being based on Robert's information."

Now, this is where I use Marcellus as a comparisson. (Not a defense of Ali, Jun, or any other HG.) Marcellus commented about Tonya as a mother, her children, Gerry as a teacher, etc. Again, I argue that the criticism Marcellus received is disproportionate to the criticism Ali's receiving. She's being judged much more harshly than Marcellus was last year. So I question again, is it because Marcellus was funny? People laughed at his insults and, therefore they were more "acceptable"? That Ali is female so it's easier to label her as catty or a b**ch?

"This is my problem with the bashing, they don't bash based on the person's behavior in the house."

But, as we've seen since BB2, most of the HG's bash beyond another HG's behavior in the house. It seems to be a common occurance. (This, however, is in no way endorsing such behavior. I, like others, wish the HG's wouldn't rag on each other. Unfortunately, this seems to be a negative by product of this type of game.)

"And Alison is one of the worst offender's."

IMO, I don't believe she's one of the worst offenders (even when including the past two BB's for comparison.) Yes, she has carped on her other HG, especially with Jun. In fact, I would argue that in a lot of instances Jun instigates it. However, in the end, I just don't believe Ali is any different than several of her other HG's. (ie: Dana for instance. We've seen her twice refer negatively to Ali in the short segments on the live show. Imagine what it could be if we did have a live feed from the sequester house.)

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
For those who think Ali lacks morals...are you watching the BRAVO special tonight? These people are sick, IMO.

Boberg

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Did anybody else have to look this up?
Pyrrhic victory-a victory involving great losses on the victor's part. ex: King of Epirus, whose tactical victories against the Romans failed to avert his defeat.

Charvie

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo I am extremely flattered that you took the time and took on my post. I haven't changed my oppinion but I wanted to let you know that I appreciate the well thought out response and critique. Thank you.

(And there is no sarcasm implied or suggested in my above post, I am sincerly flattered!!!)

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I enjoyed your post Charvie. I felt you said some interesting things as well; though I disagreed with parts of it. :)

Thanks.

Charvie

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Now my response. (I am still giddy though.)Alison's behavior in the house has been the worst I've seen IMO. I don't think bashing is an ok past time, but in the game sense, it makes sense. Even Marcellus apologized profusely to Tonya because he knew he went too far. I don't see Alison doing anything but make excuses and try to justify her behavior.

And as for the bashing though I tend to find it to be in poor taste and the lowest common denominator among people. I still find those who do not stick to the person they are upset with, and bring in outside stuff(family, friends, profession,etc..) to be beyond low. I thought the same with Marcellus, Amy, Danielle(and she was my favorite), Erika(when she bashed Jun's profession as a reason she didn't deserve the money, and also my favorite) and anyone else who would stoop to such levels.

Dram

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't know that people depise Alison, maybe just some of her behavior. Take a stroll around the net to some of the other unmoderated Big Brother 4 boards and I think you will then see some true hatred of Alison.
As far as I can tell I would say a large majority of the people posting at other sites have a strong dislike for Alison.

Efilon

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I have a strong dislike for the character Alison has played in this house. But her character seems to have let up on the other houseguests for now, she has the mime and the ants to hate. Glad her character wasn't made to Raid to the mime.

Mkcantjump

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's true Gina. Alison's detractors DO post over and over again on this board. The same ones all the time and they also ignore the very clear mod message at the top of the debate thread,continuously. Who knows what they will do if she wins.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Charvie said, "Now my response. (I am still giddy though.)Alison's behavior in the house has been the worst I've seen IMO. I don't think bashing is an ok past time, but in the game sense, it makes sense."

And, as we know, I disagree, I've seen worse. :)

"Even Marcellus apologized profusely to Tonya because he knew he went too far. I don't see Alison doing anything but make excuses and try to justify her behavior."

Yes, Marcellus did apologize...after the game was over. When he had an opportunity to see how his behavior appeared on tv. However, during his time in the house he did nothing but make excuses and justify HIS behavior. He apologized after he had the benefit of reflection. Ali hasn't had that opportunity.

"And as for the bashing though I tend to find it to be in poor taste and the lowest common denominator among people. I still find those who do not stick to the person they are upset with, and bring in outside stuff(family, friends, profession,etc..) to be beyond low. I thought the same with Marcellus, Amy, Danielle(and she was my favorite), Erika(when she bashed Jun's profession as a reason she didn't deserve the money, and also my favorite) and anyone else who would stoop to such levels."

I agree. Like I said previously though, it does appear to be a rather negative by product of this game.

Dram

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well...this is the Alison debate board. Not saying it hasn't been abused at times. However, there is a Alison "fan" board so shouldn't that even things out?
I don't hate Alison, just don't like her behavior. Truth be told, I am not impressed with this bunch that are left. Whoever wins will not matter to me one way or another. I just hope BB5 has a more diverse cast and some truly likable people.
Like I said before, this board is very tame in comparison to other BB boards. Alison hate is running very high and believe me with no moderation the expletives fly.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, I left you a present in the "No Show Tonight?" thread. I hope you'll be laughing.

Puzzled

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I haven't posted over and over again, but I find Alison's behaviour in the house to be quite distasteful, to say the least.

Mkcantjump

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I still think these Ali detractors need to be held accountable per the very message at the top of this debate thread. We were never able to get away with saying anything about Dani last year and even this year the anti Dana thread was quickly disposed of. I guess Ali is fair game. No she didn't bring it on herself. She played the game.

Demsome

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it is human nature to want people to be grateful and gracious. Alison has shown a lack of both of these traits on several occasions. This is not to say she isn't playing the game well. Apparently she is .. she has gotten this far so she must be doing something right. Even if I wouldn't want her for my best friend or neighbor or to be my daughter.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL, good one Wood! Hee, hee. Except, I hated playing with dolls as a child and would hate it even more so now. Bring some Legos or some good gadgets and you've got a date. I'll program my Palm with it's voice recorder with some choice Ali-isms. Would that do? LOL!

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know what I will do if she wins?

NOTHING! BB will be over, these people will disappear from my computer and I really won't care.

I ignored this the first time it was brought up, but I have to address this now...

I post my feelings about Ali and her behavior because these are things that I notice and that I have a reaction to. I don't post over and over, just when I have something to say. I try to make my thoughts as thoughtful as possible, being well aware that my impressions are filtered through my own personal biases and experiences.

Ali "defenders" have the perfect right to say what they would like as well concerning Ali. I will always defend your right to do so, no matter how much I may disagree with the content of your posts. It's when posters make comments about the nature of the other posters on this board that I get frustrated.

I don't go accusing you of posting over and over and over and I don't take offense when my thoughts and feelings are dissected in minute detail. So, please, don't imply that the people who post negative things about Ali are a small minority group that is attempting to take over the boards. I think that most of us have held to the terms of this thread, offering opinions and ideas, not simply name calling. If you don't like what I'm saying, skip my post, ignore me, or write your own rebuttal. Just don't attack me.

The moderators do an awesome job here and will let people know if they have crossed the line with respect to Ali. Let's let them do their job and make ourselves only responsible for ourselves, not the other posters.

Dram

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tha's what Danielle's fans said about her last year, "she played the game". I think a lot of people that were anti-Danielle last year were down on her diary room sessions. The Roddy is the Devil stuff. I don't remember a lot of cursing coming from Danielle and I don't remember her calling the other girls B!tches and S!uts and so on....

I'm not sure what you mean by "she didn't bring it on herself"? Her personality? Her behavior? Not sure where you were going with that. Anyways, I'm sure they will all be fine once this ends. There will probably be some shocks, gasps and a lot of hurt feelings but people will apologize and most will just move on, as will we all.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm with ya, Wendo. Modern play toys are far more interesting and informative. We could make a "Donny", a "Justin", and then have a "Nathan" wearing a "snuggle buddy" T-shirt. (On a side note: I hate messageboard tattletales).