Archive through September 22, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: The Jury will question Jun and Alison today 9/20:
Archive through September 22, 2003
Gina8642 | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 08:16 pm     I'm just trying to imagine what fowl language is exactly? You chicken legs? You turkey neck? Gizzard breath? hmmm... There's actually quite a few possibilities in fowl language. LOL Only teasing Chippy... |
Monalisahi | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 08:35 pm     Surreal_Badger said: if i say that ali and jun's homophobia comments stem from and are enabled by a homophobic culture-at-large, i am not justifying their remarks. if i say that ali and jun's anti-immigrant and racist comments stem from and are enabled by a racist, anti-immigrant culture-at-large, i am not justifying their remarks. ________________________________________ No, you are not justifying them.......you are just placing the blame elsewhere. By the way, where do the verbal attacks on a 7 yr old stem from? |
Trubycat | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:02 pm     I belive the initial verbal attacks stemmed from Robert's revelation that Julie questioned him about certain derogatory words he used to describe Jun/Ali. Jun/Ali pretended to blow it off when Robert admitted it but then angrily talked about it later saying things like he had no right to judge them when he didn't really know them. I am sure somewhere in their minds they justified saying derogatory words about Robert and his daughter as a response. Robert is the type of guy where not much will hurt him but comments about his daughter WOULD hurt him. No different than a kid on the playground making insults about someone's mother or sibling to get back at them. It's not right. It's not justifiable. But everyone does things in anger and out of petty jealousy at some point. Some just do it in worse ways than others (Jun, Ali, Erika, Robert). The difference is at least these people will have an opportunity to see what they did ON TAPE and can maybe learn from it. Especially if they venture onto the net where they'll see unedited honest sickened responses to it. My boss says things all of the time that could be deemed racist, derogatory, sexist, homophobic or whatever. He is not a bad person. He is just ignorant and really doesn't know any better. He is a product of environment as most racists/bigots/sexists ARE. I can tell you that as someone who's known him for years. There is a ton more to him than these moments and as a whole he is a VERY good and decent person. Of course he's in his 60s and Jun/Ali are both in their 20s. |
Monalisahi | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:33 pm     Truby, that doesn't explain the attacks on Elena. And I still don't understand why those names Robert used would offend them anyway, they used at least 1 of them in describing themselves and used all 3 in describing every other female in the house. |
Trubycat | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:51 pm     You might not understand why it offended them but it DID. It pissed them off a great deal. As I explained above, they know that Robert wouldn't be offended by someone calling him names but he would be offended by someone attacking Elena in anyway. They also know how much Robert talked about and respects his Cuban heritage. They know everything they say/do will end up either transcribed on the net or in the TV show. Just as they will see Robert calling them names when they get out. It was a childish petty attempt to make themselves feel better and nothing more. But it's not like they're the only ones in life who have ever done such a thing. They're not even the only ones in that house who have done such things. Just because someone understands that doesn't mean they are justifying or excusing something. They just understand how people act in life especially in emotional & heightened circumstances. Understanding doesn't have to mean acceptance, forgiveness or justification. |
Wendo | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:53 pm     Oh Trubycat, I admire you for trying... |
Watching2 | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:53 pm     Many people have said it's hard to believe educated people could use such foul "fowl"...cluck cluck! hehe) It has nothing to do with "book education." I was totally outraged when my M.D., yep medical doctor, made a homophobic remark to me. We were discussing the Boy Scouts (general chit chat while I got my monthy shot) and he said his one son was very involved and he really didn't like it. My reason for not liking them were far different than his, believe me! He told me his son asked him if he was ever in scouts and when he said "no", his son asked why. I was so startled by what he said next I didn't say what I SHOULD have said, but at least I said something. He said he told his son he never wanted to be in in the BS because it was full of f**gs. UNREAL. I barely stumbled out of the office and was so shook up I phoned a lesbian friend of mine as soon as I could get across the street to the mall. I was seething! This is an educated man. He had no idea who is in my family, who my friends are, etc.! I was ready to write him and tell him why I was leaving his practice, report him, whatever! I was THAT upset. My lesbian friend actually calmed me down because she knows what a "rights activist" I am and told me I was going to alienate myself from everyone with calling everyone out. She did this with some laughter because she knows how upset I get about things. I haven't been able to find another doctor, so I still see the guy, but my respect for him is very low. He's an educated man who deals with the public. He darn well should know better, especially in a professional setting. He probably has gay patients and that makes me cringe! Now in other aspects he acts totally respectable. Was he trying to be chummy w/me saying that? I don't know, but he sure picked the wrong person thinking that would fly with me. I took what he said as hateful and I also felt sorry for his kids. What if this son just happens to be gay? I shiver to think about it. I see a big difference in kids who are accustomed to using those words when they're used to hearing it around their peers, even though I think it's wrong, than a professional. I also know people who say things that sound awful and yet when it comes to actual people, they'd give them the shirt off their back. Go figure. |
Bastable | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:54 pm     Ditto what Wendo said. But you're trying to stop the weight of a mighty gavel that's gleefully in full downward swing. Watching2, if my doctor did that to me, I would tell him I was getting a new doctor---and I would tell him why. The only way to change things is NOT to sit quietly when hateful/ignorant stuff like that is said. We have to kindly, generously, but FIRMLY tell people it's not acceptable. |
Wendo | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:57 pm     Jun used the word CHINK and not a blip on the board....hmmmm |
Watching2 | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:59 pm     ROFL Wendo. Blip Blip Blip.. feel better? |
Watching2 | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:03 pm     Bastable, I have intended to find another doctor and tell him why. I just haven't been able to find one - it's actually not all that easy. (I have some conditions which are hard to find someone who can treat that and be my reg. doc.) I only see him once/mo and I should have acted immediately. Like I said, I did say something to him, but I wish I had said more. I was beating myself up big-time for not saying more, believe me. I felt like I let all the people I love down and was horrible for not doing more. I still do or I wouldn't still be bringing it up. |
Wendo | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:12 pm     Watching2! I think it's great you said something at all. Most don't. |
Monalisahi | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:12 pm     Wendo, oh, I thought it was because she was PMSing. |
Wendo | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:14 pm     Actually, I believe she was talking about her own eyes. Hey, is it offensive if one uses the word on themselves??? |
Monalisahi | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:19 pm     Truby......so they did intend to offend. It wasn't due to ignorance, it wasn't slang, it wasn't from stress, it isn't the fault of society......they simply meant to be offensive, and are solely responsible for their words. That's pretty much what I thought all along. |
Trubycat | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 10:42 pm     Well, that's not exactly what I said. My first post was a response to not only you but others who seem to have no clue where the Elena bashing came from. Since the main incident happened fairly soon after Robert's revelation, I believe the initial Elena bashing comments were made in anger over learning Robert had called them derogatory names. I do believe they knew that Robert would see them as they talk often about how were watching them right now, transcribing every word & sound. The derogatory comments made about Robert himself and many of the other racist comments they (especially Jun) make I believe are a product of environment (parents/family/upbringing). It is ignorance that is behind all racism, bigotry & other forms of hate. Ignorance isn't an excuse but I guess it is an explanation. Still, in a court of law, explaining you didn't know you were breaking the law won't get you much sympathy so I don't believe it should get these girls any sympathy here either. Everyone is solely responsible for themselves and their actions. Jun/Ali are pretty offensive people from what I've seen but so were Erika, Dana, & Robert this year. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 11:49 pm     "Everyone is solely responsible for themselves and their actions." Bingo! Nail hit squarely on head! Give the girl a kewpie doll! |
Wendo | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 12:03 am     I believe most people have been saying that, ad nauseam, for the past couple of weeks. That Jun and Ali are responsible for themselves, comments, and actions. Unfortunately, those that wanted to go deeper and get at the roots of why, were accused of condoning their behavior or not understanding the above paragraph. Oh well... |
Onlyhuman | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 12:21 am     Nausea?? Did you say nausea?? Yeah, I've had a lot of that this season. |
Wendo | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 12:48 am     NauseaM, Only, nauseaM. LOL! And with this, I'm off to bed. It's after 3 am and I have a lunch appoinment. Goodnight Onlyhuman. Have a good one...... |
Prisonerno6 | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 05:36 am     When people try to come up with an explanation of every single offensive behavior, it adds to the impression that they are trying to justify those behaviors. Sometimes the reason is simply that these people are being rude, and they don't care enough about their behavior to try not to be rude. Their age, background, experience or lack thereof, societal influence, houseguest influence, BB influence, game play, upbringing, immigrant status, or any of the dozens of other explanations we've heard sometimes just don't matter. They are just being rude. |
Chippy | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 06:56 am     Exactly, Prisonerno6. And, these two have it down to a science. Oh, and thank you, Gina, for pointing out my mistake. Poor you and Wendo for having to put up with some of us. You really should get a lap pin or something for your selfless efforts aimed at educating those with differing opinions. |
Missapril | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 07:10 am     elena wasn't attacked. clearly their remarks were aimed at robert. <> |
Charvie | Monday, September 22, 2003 - 07:12 am     Except they missed the bullseye big time. Shoot they weren't even aiming in his general direction. They are really bad shots. |
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