Archive through September 18, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Ali's Parents' Interview:
Archive through September 18, 2003
Gidget | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:02 pm     Steve- No where did I say I did not take the LSATs. What I said was as an undergraduate I realized I did not want to be a lawyer and thus dropped out of school until I decided on something nearer and dearer to my heart to study. Furthermore, we are talking about a long time ago. Back in the day, there were few prep courses for standardized tests. Many students had little experience with them prior to taking the SATs. I went to schools where they were used heavily from the time I was in 2nd grade. Thus, I excelled at taking them and appear much smarter on paper than I believe I am. Not that I think I am dumb. Today most kids have the advantage I did of being very familiar with standardized testing. This is why I do not believe the LSATs will be difficult for anyone who tests well under that type of condition. I know foreign students who struggle with this type of testing because they come from schools that still rely heavily on all day oral exams to test their knowledge. And... I probably was not clear about the rest of my post. One does not have to score in the top percentile to attend law school. And once one gets there, one does not have to graduate at the top of the class. Your point about Alison not reading is well taken. It will hinder her but I still think she is probably well versed in this type of testing. And she strikes me as a person who would make an effort to perform well on a test that gives one a number to brag about. Can you tell I am unimpressed with standardized testing? As for the rest of your post, I will assume you are not just speaking to me. I agree, Ali's parents appeared on the show. Their performance is legitimate fodder for the discussion board. |
C1mag | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:03 pm     I would say that the football example was great except this isn't football. This is a completely different game. This is a mind game and you are boxed and locked away from reality 24/7. The truth is you come to like these people and for some you need something... anything... in order to get rid of them. It happens. Ask those who have played this game why it happens and as I pointed out earlier Marcellus covered pretty well although he downplayed his trash talking. He said it happens. You need to find anything to cut the person you liked at one point. It's easier at the time and you end up regretting it later on. I get that part of the game. Doesn't mean I like it but I get it. I think this game is much tougher than some think it is. |
Kalekona | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:13 pm     That would be because a good defense attorney does not want to know if their client did the crime.. because ethicalyy if they know there are many things they can not do to defend them.. such as put an alibi witness on the stand once they know there is no alibi. Ali is not the better of the two at playing this game.. Jun was much better (until the end) she didn't get into the middle of the drama, she may have stirred it but then she stepped back.. she was always clear she would vote the way it would do her the most good... made no promises and never outright bold face lied to anyone.. she would say what someone wanted to hear but never commited to any promise. Ali made promises and outright lied, she never thought about the jury until she had alienated them already. What did ali contribute to the house? Other than hate nothing, and she has zero empathy for others, jun at least made herself useful and is adult enough that she feels for others even if she doesn't like them. As we saw with Roberts phone call. |
Steveh | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:18 pm     Gidget - I wasn't addressing you dir. after first paragraph. Just my general impression as someone who has worked w/ many Alis over the last 25 years--she doesn't do well on standardized tests. And, since you do profess to do well on them, doesn't that skew your perception re. degree of difficulty? If she takes them and gets an adequate score, sure she can get in a law school, maybe muddle through, maybe land a decent job. On the other hand, I have heard dozens of recent horror stories from people who graduated from first and second tier schools w/ decent grades and couldn't find work. Maybe Ali can get juiced into her dad's firm. For the record, football and Big Brother aren't completely different. Football is at least 50 percent mental and I don't mean just memorizing plays or formations, I mean getting WAY inside your opponent's head. There's way more trash talking going on in a football game (the more advance the competition, the more pervasive the trashing), than an equivalent time from any other BB season. The ever popular "f*g" seems to be this season's choice for both BB & most levels of football. The difference in football is that the mudslinging is done AT the target, rather than behind his back. I think that from the NFL on down, players are often coached to think of their opponents as perverts, "b*****s" and "f**s." I'm sure there are those who've had different football experiences; I am merely recounting mine, my teammates and opponents through the years and college players I've taught and worked with over the past couple of decades. |
Steveh | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:21 pm     Wouldn't attorney-client privilege have taken precedent re. Shapiro's knowledge of OJ's guilt? In other words, an officer of the court is required to share facts w/ the court unless it violates a-c privilege. Don't know, just asking. |
Kalekona | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:22 pm     But on the football field the trash talk is direct not whispered to your quarterback in the huddle. |
Monalisahi | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:27 pm     Steveh, yep, exactly why it isn't illegal for officers of the court to omit facts. Now, a prosecutor must divulge anything which may be considered exculpatory. But to say "omission of 'facts' if known by an officer of the court is a crime" is untrue. |
Gidget | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:29 pm     Yes it does skew my opinion and clearly I am not being clear. I am not saying LSATs are easy or hard. I am trying to say that certain people handle certain kinds of testing differently. BUT in the past, I'd estimate, 15 years there has been an emphasis on preparing students for exactly the type of test the LSAT is, so it stands to reason they have a good chance of success. On the other hand, I just found out I am hyperlexic, so what the he11 do I know. Getting through law school and getting a good job are two very different things. Many students, as I am sure you well know, are having trouble getting suitable employment after college. |
Gidget | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:32 pm     "Steveh --------------------------------- Wouldn't attorney-client privilege have taken precedent re. Shapiro's knowledge of OJ's guilt? In other words, an officer of the court is required to share facts w/ the court unless it violates a-c privilege. Don't know, just asking." Don't ask me. I'm not a lawyer. Hurricane is chasing everybody home. I'm outta here. |
Meggieprice | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:43 pm     Kale- good analysis of Jun and Ali's game! C1- I totally agree that this game is really really hard- I think the first prize should be a million and second 100k. The stress and the skill needed (for the most part-luck too) to get this far is really amazing. |
Missapril | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:58 pm     sorry, no it's not 'untrue' that it's not a crime for an officer of the court to withhold facts known to him/her that indicates either exculpatory or indictable evidence on the part of a defendent at law. check the oath as well as the rules of procedure for any US court, and while you're at it check the bar's code of conduct, not to mention public laws (federal and state statutes) dealing with the same. amateurs, amateurs... |
Lorry | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:50 pm     We need a real attorney to answer these questions. Where is Shapiro when you need him??? |
Lancecrossfire | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 02:17 pm     C1--I hold that football is a mind game as much as big brother is a mind game--football is just more physical. If what you say is true, chess players would be talking smack every time they took a piece so they could feel ok about it--but they don't because they know it's part of the game. The more someone has to make excuses why they have to evict someone, the more they are not playing a game (in their mind). Heck, look at Lex in Survivor--kept telling folks when he voted that it was just a game--and he was so honest about it he typically told them ahead of time--re: Clarence) Now to me, that is realizing it's just a game. Too bad he went crazy when he got a vote--then all of a sudden it got personal. Had he taken it the same way he have it, I would say Lex would have been a true game player--knowing it's ok to evict someone solely because you want to win--and not making up excuses. Ali had my respect when she said she wants to win--she lost it when she said all those crappy things about people before and after they left. Heck, maybe it's just a limitation I have not to be able to understand why you have to make up bad things about people you want out of the game. Maybe I'm the one who is cruel for being able to say, "hey, you stand between me and the win--so I need to get you out", and leave it at that. Shake their hand on the way out, and if I get voted out, shake the hand of the person who says that to me. I guess that I'm wanting to see something most don't want to see--someone having the mind set to play BB like a football game--go out and play hard, but not make it about the people--to make it about the game even though you are looked away and under all that stress--to over come it all and realize you may not be there to make friends, but you also aren't there to perform character assassinations. Ali and Jun seemed to have lost the concept of respect for fellow competitors. I find that sad, in a way. I agree about it being a tougher game C1--much tougher than most think it is. For me, that is the appeal of BB (among other things) Steveh you have a good point in that the trash talking is at the target, and not behind the back. In the case of BB, it makes sense--who would be willing to tell Jack he is a pervert and looks like a child molester--especially when done by someone like Jun or Ali who go around flirting their buns off. Now trash talking like Robert did--I'm the best---I can read people better than anyone. That is the kind of trash talking that can be about the game and could be said to someone's face. J3 did it as a group--but didn't take it in return at all. No one respects a trash talker who can't take it. |
Beachfan | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 03:00 pm     I think Ali's parents tried to put on a good face. Let's face it, this is their child and many hate her. I considered it spin. Trying to get us to see that she isn't that bad. I loathe her and if she were my child I'd be embarrassed. But everyday I see children in my kid's school that would embarrass me if they were my kid. Their parents think they are great! Bottom line, like everything else, there are some awful parents out there. Their child could do the most awful of deeds and they would defend them. It's sad for the child and sad for the rest of us who have to live with them! I think Ali's parents were just defending their child. Let's hope they give her a nice talking to when she gets home. If not, well, they are the ones who have to live with her!! |
Bondmaiden | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 03:18 pm     Will Kirby said he told producers he would be willing to lie, cheat and sleep with a gay guy,(I'm putting this nicely). He was applauded for his actions. oh I know, Will told everyone from the start he would do this and Ali didn't- duh. People should assume this will go on within the game play. I see no differance in Will and Ali except people are mad because she is female and females are not suppose to do this? Apparently, according to the Bravo series, Will said alot of who got on BB2 when he was applying, had to do with how far you would go for the money. When he said he would "f" a gay guy then make a sandwich, they laughed and said "you're in". something to consider. Also, the mods should once again be aware that serious bashing of Ali's parents is going on in the Ali debate thread once again. |
Oscrapit | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:12 pm     Gidget-how did you find out that you were hyperlexic? My son has hyperlexia, so I'm just curious. Leave a message in my folder if you'd rather. Thanks! |
Earthmother | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:19 pm     Gidget, when fodder is all that's left, we talk about it... |
C1mag | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:31 pm     A football game ends in a few hours. BB plays for a couple of months for 24/7 under very odd conditions. I don't see how the two would come close to one another. I agree with Bond. If Ali were a man at this point she would be applauded. I find it interesting that some are so "disguted" with her comments but yet more than likely in private you have all said the same garbarge. Yes you have said you hate someone. Yes, you've even called a couple of close acpuaintances foul names behind their backs. You may have even said some not so nice things about a friends brat of a kid. Big difference was their wasn't a camera running to nail you for it. You had your moment and no one knows about it. In this day and age I will never buy that anyone is so offended by Alis words that they are enraged. What happened was you got to involved in watching it and you took her words personally and now it will disgust you if she wins. Let it go and chill if that is your problem. She was awesome in this game and un like you she didn't guard her tongue. Big deal! These people decided to forget about the camera and the show has promised that they can let it go and let the fur fly and it won't be held against them while the jury votes as they aren't going to hear it til after they vote. Thats ok with me because I've long since said that it's a yawn to pick just the less evil of the final 2. That girl played by the rules with all the lying, backstabbing and manipulating. She gave them everything they wanted and she even won some other comps so stay in the house. It's not right to dock her now because she ran her mouth like some many of them. Allow her the right to play it to the end and put the judgement of character on hold. She dared to play. Hopefully this sequester will produce just that type of vote. Be bold and admit... who played you to the door? if it was Ali then have the balls to vote for her and shut up about "mean" things she has said. They all said them about one another. On a side note. Lets lose the repeated, "I can't believe she called jack a perv" because in some ways there is a small hint of it and Dana can echo it. The week Dana was hoh Jack walked up behind Dana and squeezed her. She yanked herself away from him and said very sternly, "BACK OFF JACK, What would momma jack think?" She told him not to pull that with her anymore. The moment bothered her. She even told Jun don't leave her alone with him. Now this may not be perverse behavior but he was putting some things out there to question. It's easy to say, "how awful that ali called him a perv" but as I said live in the environment. Listen to what others say about those you want to pick off one by one. Watch the tone of the house. You will then make your moves as needed to stay in the game knowing how each one responds. If you were in that house the one thing you would forget about is the fact we are all watching and if you wanted to let off some steam you would. |
Gidget | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:40 pm     Oscrapit, we were playing with a little word game on I picked up from the net and talking about the mechanics of reading in general. When I described reading for me, someone wrote back and said I sounded hyperlexic and gave me a description. The description was a close match. If that description was accurate, then I would say I have not suffered any ill effects from this phenomenon and neither did any of the other posters who seemed to also fit the description. You can see our conversation if you go to the BB thread "Quick Q & A" dated 9/15. And you might want to ask Meli456 about it. She is the one who put me on to it. |
Earthmother | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:50 pm     Will you guys stop talking about football, it makes me want to go shopping..when football starts, Franny goes shopping |
Woodpecke® | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:51 pm     "I agree with Bond. If Ali were a man at this point she would be applauded." Sorry C1, but that comment is absolutely ludicrous. |
Bastable | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:52 pm     I wouldn't go that far... but I do think it's definitely provocative. Obviously. |
Earthmother | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:53 pm     I don't know that I agree Wood..didn't Josh try this tactic last year and he was not applauded. Of course he was very bad at it, but he did try. |
Woodpecke® | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:55 pm     Also, calling Jack a pervert is completely without substantiation. Dana and Ali hinting at it doesn't make it worth discussing. Consider the sources. |
Woodpecke® | Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 04:57 pm     C1 said that if a man acted like Alison he'd be applauded. I say he's 100% wrong. |
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