Archive through September 11, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Jun took her hands off: Archive through September 11, 2003

Justboredwbb4

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 07:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Did anyone else watching the feeds see Jun take her hands off to cover her head?? I so saw this. I am waiting for the call from Big Brother. She took her hands off. I want a replay.

Jimmer

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
She's gone

Justboredwbb4

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
She's out!!
Good going Big Brother

Efilon

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I saw that too. Thought maybe I was wrong because I wanted her to go.

Rainwoman

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jun is out. My only HOPE is that Robert beats Alison and kicks her out! NO MONEY, NO NOTHING! LOL

Justboredwbb4

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert just gave it up. Wimp!

Rainwoman

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OMG ROBERT LET GO ON PURPOSE!

<LC>

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Was there a deal - or did he just let go?

I had to reboot my computer and missed the whole thing!

Jmm

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think he thinks he has a deal.

Wendo

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 08:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No deal. He even made sure to say to Ali, This is not a deal, I just want you to consider taking me if you win HOH.

No deal.

edited to add: I'm actually thinking that Ali would be better served taking Jun to the finals rather than Robert. I know she's been thinking Robert's a better choice, but, imo, he isn't.

Robert has 3 guaranteed votes; Justin, Jee, and Dana. Going with Jun allows for more play with the jury votes. I'd take Jun because of that. Why go with someone who has 3 guaranteed votes? Anyway...

Beruthiel

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 10:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Despite that Wendo, she might feel that Jun could be a harder one to beat, if the votes are for how well each played the game. I'm sure she feels that Robert wouldn't get the votes of any of those who vote fairly for good game playing, while Jun could take those votes away from Ali.
But, as she said herself, you never know with Ali. I wonder if she knows or remembers Nicole and Danielle, who lost at the end for annoying people, just as she has. Maybe she figures that she'd be sure to get second with Jun, but might just make first with Robert?
Ach, this girl makes my head hurt!

Wendo

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 10:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Beruthiel, oh, I agree. We have the benefit of seeing the game as a whole. Ali does not. Within the house and with what she knows, Rob might be the best choice.

However, the way she's been talking tonight to Jun, she's pretty much assured her. While, with Robert, she said she would consider it but wouldn't give him a definite yes.

But you're right, who knows with Ali. There's no way to know what she's going to do for sure.

The interesting thing is, Erika made a comment to Julie about Ali playing "emotionally". And I really disagree with that. Most every move she's made has benefited her and advanced herself in the game. Getting Nate to save her with POV, winning HOH and taking out Dana (an advesary), hooking up with Jun (she's the one who initiated their secret alliance one night in the hot tub), winning competitions she HAD to win, etc.

The choices she has made have not been emotional, imo. Had she made an emotional decision tonight, I think Erika would still be there.

Wolf

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 03:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Over on the BB4BBQ site, a 'watcher' mentions that they saw Alison remove her hands before Jun did.


Quote:

Wednesday, September 10, 2003

HoH Cheat?

"the hoh comp was very unfair. If cbs would look at their tapes they would see that Ali took her hands off the key before Jun did. I guess if they hadn't called jun on it she would have gone on and tried to win knowing she was cheating. Please notify them about this." - Shirley
posted by
spamgirl
at 9:27 PM




Did anyone else see this? I didn't... but I wasn't completely glued to it.

???

Beruthiel

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 04:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, I agree that Ali hasn't played emotionally at all. Although she acts emotional, loudly and frequently, her head has always been on the game.
It appears that she managed to fool Erika for the whole time, and that is why Erika thought she would stay. I think that was Erika's mistake, in thinking that Ali would be swayed by that emotional factor, which I believe ruled Erika herself-Erika would have let that emotional tie rule her decision.
Reading the feeds this evening it looks as though she has decided to go with Jun, but as we both already said, until she actually does it, we can't be certain.
There's no doubt in my mind that Ali is one tough and determined competitor, who has won and overcome a lot more than either Jun or Robert to get where she is. If that was considered by the jury in a fair way, disregarding her having played them all, they would have to give her the votes at the end.
[I'm not saying that I like that conclusion, but I have to admit the fairness of it, LOL!]

Missapril

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 04:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali is the most emotionally motivated player in the game. However, her emotion of choice is selfish interest which somehow makes her able to actually choke out those excuses that lying, using her body and the other low down tactics she employs way too easily are about playing the game (as opposed to simply being a matter of second nature to her). She preys on the emotions and better natures of other players to accomplish her ends - tactics we civilized types outlawed in the Geneva convention in the context of all-out war, but which dear ali uses without a tinge of conscience. Playing the game isn't necessarily about how one uses others, but how one uses his/her own strengths and wits to advance - from that perspective, ali has hardly overcome much at all. SHe's merely employed tactics no other player has the character to use to put other playes at a disadvantage. The others have depended on winning on their own strengths. That makes ali the weakest, least deserving player in the game now or at any time.

Dogdoc

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 04:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Since this is only part 1 of a 3 part HOH I think it is too soon be sure Alison will win. She will have the advantage of resting during the next competition. I still hope for a Jun/Ali final with Jun winnng.

Beruthiel

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 05:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
MissApril, when you use the phrase 'without a tinge of conscience' I think your argument breaks down, because that's the definition of unemotional.
Selfishness isn't necessarily an emotion either, but is often a character trait, and most selfish people aren't emotional but calculating, when attempting to get what they want.
I agree that Ali has used others, and not in nice ways, but if she did it 'without a tinge of conscience' then she did it unemotionally.
She has also done her level best to use her own talents and wits, by fighting hard for every competition, and winning many by her own strength and abilities, and also by outwitting her competitors.
I don't particularly want Ali to win, and I don't particularly admire her tactics, but she did beat her competitors in both strength and wit, and that should be acknowledged. She didn't break any rules of the game, and that's the bottom line no matter how heinous we might feel her behaviour to be.
My own emotional reaction to this point is disappointment that nice guys finish last in this game, more often than not, and thus I hope you can conclude that I don't think Alison is one of the 'nice guys'. But I do give credit where it's due.

Beruthiel

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 05:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Dogdoc, I would also prefer a Jun win. Since Jun and Ali have pledged to each other, and Jun and Robert have to fight it out in the next part of the HOH comp, I think you'll probably get your wish!

Gina8642

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 05:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wolf -

Right after they got on the houses, Alison took her hands off to remove her sweatshirt. This was before the contest officially began. I've read several people from other sites saying she should have lost because of this. They fail to point out it was before anything started.

I don't know if she took them off after this, the quality of my feeds was too poor.

Missapril

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 05:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Think anything you like - being devoid of conscience isn't remotely the same thing as being unemotional. Those without conscience have very strong emotions - selfishness, sociopathic self-interest, greed, delight in the hardships of others, a desire to harm others for their own advantage. Those are the kind of emotions which have characterized ali's 'play' in the game. Emotion isn't a strictly 'positive' state. There are all kind of and all colors of emotions. Ali has, indeed, played the game more emotionally than others, capitalizing on the higher natures and better emotional health of others and injecting her own toxic emotions. Since when do character traits not reveal themselves through the emotions of the person possessing those traits? Talents? Wits? Please, do expound. I haven't seen ali rely on any personal wits or talents she may have, unless of course you count her tendency to resort to her lower nature, to use her body, to overtly lie, to seize on weaknesses in others and exploit the better natures of her opponents as wits and talent. Most of us see those 'traits' as sociopathies. The point of the evicted hg's being the ones who determine who wins and loses is all about the remaining hg's being mindful that what goes around comes around. If winning were all about how the game was played and the way one went about that didn't matter, they'd have an impartial panel of judges making the determination. Give credit anywhere you think it's due, but saying ali has been unemotional or couldn't be emotional and without conscience at the same time just doesn't mesh with the facts.

Turnerama

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am continually amazed at how Allison keeps getting slammed by the people on this board as if she has betrayed and exploited her own family and loved ones. With the exception of Justin, everyone was a stranger to her upon her entrance to the house, but strangers whose goals were to win the same prize that she wants to win. Everyone has signed up for this and as far as I am concerned, any machinations that do not involve physical threats are completely valid in this type of game. It is specifically designed to elicit and encourage this kind of behavior. I would think that after making it this far in the game, a contestant would be even more determined to end the game with something tangible in order to justify the length of time spent in seclusion. When the three men seemed to be in control of the house, they spent their time braying and congratulating themselves, leaving themselves completely open to be undermined and exploited. I think it has been interesting to see how the final three women seemed to acknowledge the true tenuousness of their temporary alliance and I think that both Erika and Jun have a grudging respect for all that Ali has been able to achieve even while constantly being in considerable risk of being evicted. Broken promises, shifting alliances and trash talking seem like perfectly valid ways to advance in this game..not to mention entertaining to watch. Actions during the game cannot be used to determine one's character. None of these people owe each other any loyalty. They are strangers playing a game. These relationships are artificial and they are perfectly justified in treating them as such. That said, I think Ali and Jun as the Final 2 would be the most exciting combination.

Rainwoman

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The live feeds did not show the HOH competition until a couple minutes after the show went off the air on CBS, but I am interested in knowing if Alison did take her hands off the key before Jun.

If anyone has footage, please post.

Midji

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I personally believe that Alison's best chance is against Robert. With Robert in the final 2, that only makes 3 certain votes against Ali(Jee, Justin and Dana) If Robert is out, that's 4 votes against Ali (The 3 Stooges and Dana!) and she will certainly loose.
I also don't agree with everybody saying that Ali played a good game. Like any game, the goal is to win. So you have to take everything into consideration. Ali didn't!! She played to stay in the house. That's all. If she had played well, she would be in the house AND would have played in a way that would not have turned everybody against her. She did not take into consideration the fact that the other HG would be the ones voting. She played to last not to win!!

Shonda

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali has played a good game. She may not have played with good manners, but she has played to win. She is a strong competitor who won when she needed to. She may have flirted (and more) to furthur herself in the game, but she is no guiltier than some of the previous players. (Remember Ranger Dave kissing up to her for a vote? Remember Roddy "flirting" with Marcellas?)

As for turning everyone against her, I believe that started with Dana. Had Dana lasted as long as Ali has in the game, she would be just as hated, if not more. Remember, Dana was the first one to turn traitor -- and spill the secrets. Ali may have played both sides, but she didn't reveal secrets.

As for who Ali should take to the F2 -- if she wants to win, Robert; if she wants to be loyal, Jun. If it is Ali and Rob in the F2, the votes will probably break down like this:

Ali - Jun, Erica, Nate, Jack
Rob - Dana, Justin, Jee

If it is Ali and Jun in the F2, the votes will probably break down like this:

Ali - Rob, Erica, Nate
Jun - Jee, Dana, Justin, Jack

JMHO!

Katlady53

Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 07:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Does everyone think Ali would get Erika's vote? I don't!