Archive through September 25, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Why were these people so vile?: Archive through September 25, 2003

Tempemike

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
This is my first season as a BB viewer and at the end of it all the biggest question I have in my mind is why are these people so venomous? Allison and Jun were easily the worst of the bunch but most of the HG made incredibly mean comments pretty frequently. My questions; Does BB deliberately seek out contestants like this? Have the past BB shows been similar in this regard? and does the unique isolation they experience make them much nastier than they normally would be?

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I honestly believe the tone of the season was set with the eX-factor.
Bringing in their ex's began the nasty comments and it just got worse as time went on.

And these were just not really nice people. or at least the nice ones were just possesed by the evil ones. :)

Gina8642

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think all of your questions can be answered as yes.

They definately cast folks who are willing to bash and trash talk. They (CBS) love this type of contestant becuase they get people talking and riled up, and therefore more people watch. I think they worked very hard this year to cast them. It's obvous from some stuff Alison said that they presued her VERY hard to get her on the show. They loved the girl! This is exactly what they wanted out of her.

Previous seasons? Another definate YES. The only thing different this year is more of them made it to the end.

Unique Isolation? Absolutely IMO.

Seanflynn2003

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
1) That is what the show sets up and causes;
2) Under these circumstances most people would go this direction;
3) We see the 24/7

Robert was far more vile than either Allison or Jun IMO.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When you are in a closed environment, bored out of your mind, seeing the same people 24 hours a day, and have nothing to do, eventually you run out things to talk about and start talking about each other.

There were quite a few bashing sessions with Danielle, Marcellas and Amy last year. I have no doubt that if Amy and Marcellas had ended up the final two, that the reception would have been the same.

I really think that BB should give the houseguests some games or something to do, so they have some topic of conversation other than each other.

Grooch

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Bring back the weekly challenges!!!! :)

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Seanflynn2003 - right Robert was the worse.. his comments, which he has apologized for were absolutly directed with malice and vile petty jealousy. He clearly got personel about players family and called children horrible things, all because he didn't get what he wanted. He made so many physical threats that i'm surprised he was allowed to remain in the game.. he was always going to drown this person, or bash this ones head in. and he threated their personel belongings as well, showing no respect for anyone but himself.

Oh wait that wasn't Robert that was Ali and Jun.. so yeah i guess the comments of •••••• and sluts were a lot worse. (read sarcasim here)

Guinevere

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Seanflynn, I swear, you always say just what I'm thinking.

Kalekona, all I can say is that for me, Robert was worse for this reason:

I have a real problem with hatred that is based on prejudice. IMO, Robert hates women. For me, this is as bad as hating blacks, gays, etc. (from some of the "boys will be boys" comments I read on the board after he started up, I can see that not everyone here agrees with me). Now, Ali at least made homophobic remarks, Erika made racist remarks; and there were other HGs as well that made offensive and prejudiced comments. But from WHAT I SAW, IMO these comments did not indicate the level of hatred and prejudice I saw coming from Robert. I believe his hatred of women is an intrinsic part of his personality. And for me, it's a huge strike against him. It's not one that I can get over.

Bandmom

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
IMO, Ali and Jun were no worse than Marcellus from BB3. His constant bashing of Gerry was unbelievable and unforgivable. He even made disgusting things up about Gerry's hygene habits to get reaction out of the others. He also said some truly horrible things about the others.

Earthmother

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't believe for one minute that you turn into a vile monster because you are in a house and can't leave. I might agree if everyone was nice and sweet for the first month and then became ugly, but most of these people started their vile comments in the first week....so I don't fall for "they're bored so they're vicious" BS.

Marcellas was the king of vile..Jun and Ali have nothing on him. Yhey couldn't compare on the ugly person scale, except that disgusting step over the line when saying things about someones child. Then they jumped up the ugly meter to me.

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Nice job, Earthmother. I agreed with every word. Anyone trying to make the case that these people are completely different than they were inside the house because of "the stress of the game or the surroundings" is wrong. They aren't nice people. Most are selfish, others are mean, the rest are plain bizarre.

Coffee

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kalekona , good post. I agree totally with you. Robert did not even come close to saying what Ali and Jun did.

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Also, CBS lost huge points with me for even allowing Marcie to be a part of this year's show. Alison was vicious, but Marcie was definitely in her league.

Coffee

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Think of it - if Jun and Ali were men and Robert a woman and they made the same threatening remarks the two men would have been dealt with on it and a good chance of being kicked off.

Steveh

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert was a moron, blowing off steam. Jun's and Ali's amazing near half-hour tirade contained what many would classify as hate speech. Threats against Robert, threats against a little kid, f*g, f****t, the f-word hundreds of times, every other form of invective known to humans. And to what purpose?

I'll say this for Robert too: There was still a game going on when he went off on his worst rant (although his attitude overall was misognynistic he didn't always display it in such strident terms): "W****s like that are gonna win." Ali and Jun had locked up ALL the prize money when their hatefest commenced.

TPTB microscoped in on Erika's nasty remark too, maybe to the point where viewers might think it was typical of her, but I never saw her say anything else close. Meanwhile, those who watched the tv show only have NO IDEA that Ali and Jun clearly have more racial issues than Erica.

Creampuff

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I've pondered the question as to why most of the HG's make crass, vile remarks and I have decided (for myself, anyway) that it comes down to:

1. Because they CAN (who's stopping them?).

2. Because they can blame their behavior on their circumstances (This is my excuse and I'm sticking with it!).

3. Because many of them have tiny brains and big mouths.

Dram

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Confused a bit about your post Guinevere. You said that, "Robert is worse". "Robert hates women and that is as bad as hating blacks, gays, etc"..So Alison saying Fu**ing Cuban Fa@@ot in regards to Robert would fall into this category, correct? Not to mention Erika's comments, Jun's comments (she made insults towards Robert's nationality too). How do we weigh the difference? Jee said, "women shouldn't be educated". Jee's statement would lead one to believe that he also has a problem with women. He did allude to "his girl" and how he likes her to behave quite a few times. We can draw many different conclusions from all of their comments.

Surreal_Badger

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i don't see much point in the "who's better"/"who's worse" argument. Can we really rank this kind of thing?! I mean, is being racist somehow better/worse than being sexist? Is being homophobic somehow better/worse than being racist? I really don't like the idea of there being a hierarchy of oppression and hatred. It's ALL bad, methinks.

I also think that each and every person in this year's house said horrible stuff. CBS made the editorial decision, however, to only focus on certain people's diatribes.

I agree with some of the above posts that argue that BB deliberately chooses people who will behave in "shocking" ways. I also believe they assign particular houseguests particular "characters." At the beginning of the season, i think BB wanted to portray erika as "bad," hence they showed her comment about jee. Remember, it was well into the season before the TV show revealed any of robert's misogyny; clearly CBS was hesitant to brand the "dream team" as bad guys. And i think that dave, who certainly made his fair share of homophobic, racist, and sexist remarks was NEVER shown in a negative light -- partly, of course, because he was booted so early, but partly i believe because in our current political climate, CBS wouldn't dare portray a soldier that way.

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think "ranking the houseguests" might be a fun exercise. Take all 4 BB's and rank every houseguest from 1-100. (I'm just posting this because I was bored and not quite ready to leave yet).

Shereebie

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Earthmother, as I usually do (when I'm lurking!) and think Coffee made a good point. What if Jun and Ali had been male, making the physical threats (whether sincere or not) and talking about one of the female houseguest's children using vulgarity? Would they have been treated the same? I honestly do not think so.

Wendo

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm gonna agree with Surreal_Badger at this point. No point in the who's better argument or ranking them. They all display some form of bad behavior. It's the class of people they cast on these shows. Which is why I'm betting many people here would never do a show like BB or other reality tv shows.

Murph

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Surreal_Badger, many good points. I will admit to being one of the people who wrote to CBS regarding their early portrayal of Robert and insisted that they reveal his ugly remarks. Yes, I am the one responsible!! However, I did begin to see good qualities in Robert as time went on and disliked him less. I see hope for him.

I really feel that Erika has received the harshest treatment of all the houseguests. Her racist remarks to my knowledge were only once. She never called Jee those names again; not when he put them on PBJ for the week, or nominated her again, etc. She did not in my memory utter negative remarks over and over and over again. I liked Erika more and more during the game.

All racist, sexist, homophobic remarks are bad but some folks relish in using them with no regard for others and the hurt they cause. For this reason and others I could never find any redeeming qualities in Jun or Ali.

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I was joking about the rankings, but would it have killed Wendo to agree with just one lousy silly point before we leave? Yep.

Wendo

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecke®, I agree that it's ok for you to touch "it".

Bbfanatic

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i have to say the show last night after four seasons was the first time i was embarrassed to watch bb. i wasnt going to, but i went ahead and watched. it was a pathetic display of sh*t. how awful. these people are all at the bottom for me. not a one stands out as being better than the others. after 4 seasons, it came to this? how embarrassing for everyone involved. how sad for the fans. i wish they would go back to where the fans get to vote. sure there were problems with it, but nothing like this. at least they would spend more time living in the house and doing normal things rather than whispering about alliances. forget all of the twist and turns and bring back the bb1 format. i dont care if i have to pay for feeds. just give me something to watch. stress to the hgs the fans will be voting. do i sound disappointed ????