Archive through September 08, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through September 08, 2003

Lostintheglades

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You have a point there Lori. She admits to cheating on boyfriends. I don't think she is capable of having an honest relationship with anyone. She is very suited to this game and I don't think she could ever be called a friend. I don't think she knows what the word means.

R151996

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's sad (and at the same time laughable) to see fans of other HGs enter this and other threads and be able to do nothing but resort to unfounded name-calling against Ali. Just because Ali has totally outplayed everyone in the game along with Jun is no justification for such posts.

If you don't like Ali, nobody is forcing you to watch the live feeds or TV shows. You also should not abuse the privilege of posting at this or any other board--and if you post comments worthy of moderation you have abused that privilege.

Ladytex

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When did R become a mod or admin on this board? Hmmm, must have missed that one ....

Lostintheglades

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow R151996...someone get you upset?

Lostintheglades

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 01:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol Ladytex...my thoughts exactly...this is the debate thread right?

Lori

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is a debate thread - not a fan thread.

I do not like Ali...I also do not like a number of other houseguests. This is entertainment. You have to keep everything in perspective...not everyone likes everything or everyone...but hey I still watch for purely entertainment purposes! :)

Alisonfan

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Just so everyone is clear on the pageant vs. BB thing...Alison did not know that she was going to be on the show until a film crew and a producer came to tell her so and that she only had one hour to pack. She did not have time to drive to the other end of the state and give up her crown. Once she had gone, she could have no communication with outside people. The only grapes that were sour over this was her pageant director who knew that he would not be able to send a contender (that had a good shot at winning) to Miss Pennsylvania. His only choice was to send a contestant (that he knew would not). I do believe, that now, everyone is over any supposed controversy. Why would anybody trade a 1 in 25 shot at a rhinestone tiara over a 1 in 13 shot at half of a million dollars.

Gina8642

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
R15 - Lostintheglades did the right thing. Her LFP showed zero bias and then she came her and compained about Ali in the appropriate thread. She's following all the rules better than I usally do, and I try to be pretty careful.

Lost - I just read your LFP and couldn't figure out what even irked you. LOL. Now I know. You were doing a great job!

Earthmother

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
R is right in one instance..name calling isn't necessary. What many who despise Ali for doing are doing the same thing to her on these boards. AND NO SHE IS NOT MY FAVORITE PLAYER, but it's important to remember that this is a fan club. Talk about her actions not about her as a person..Many of the things she has said and her actions are vile, but to call her vile is wrong.

Lostintheglades

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol...Thanks Gina. I just had to get it off my chest and then I got yelled at for it. Oh well, I still feel better. Thanks for listening!

Wendo

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Good point Earthmother. I think it's important to also remember that we don't know these people outside of the feeds. To comment on how a HG is or behaves in real life is assuming who the person is when we have no way of knowing. I have no problem reading the negative comments about a HG's when they relate to the HG's actions within the house.

But I do admit, I get a bit peeved reading comments that say such and such a HG's would be a horrible friend, or a betrayer in real life.

Anway, just my thoughts.

Hamsterlady

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
<Psst! Hey Lost! I'm lost! LOL I can't figure out what you were upset about with Ali. Help me out here please???? :)>

Lori

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Go back and read my post...I never said she would be a "horrible friend" or a "betrayer in real life"...I said "can you imagine her as a friend"...that's the problem when people take things out of context...the gest of the post becomes much worst.

Wendo

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lori, I wasn't referring to your post. I was just commenting in general. If I were referring to your, I would've said so.

Lori

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
okay Wendo! :) It sounded like mine! :)

Marej

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Trying to write how most of us feel about Alison is like trying to argue with your mother--you know you are right, but she twists it around so she is right and she won't budge and gives you the LOOK, so it's no use going on with it.

Wendo

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 02:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No prob Lori. :)

Avrey258

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I respectfully disagree with you R. This is the Alison "debate" thread. I have seen the same thing in some posters who like any of the houseguests. If we have something negative to day I would assume the detate thread is the place for it. I don't mean to bash either, but observations on a houseguest's behavior are allowed. There is a Alison fan thread to balance things out. I'm sorry if it bothers you, but I just can't get on board the Ali love train so I came here to voice my opinion.

Meggieprice

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe I need some clasrification but I do think the debate threads are where you can be somewhat more critical of the HG in questions and there is a smiley face thread for the houseguest to balance it.

Marej- eerie- have you met my mother? lol!

Spear

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that we often cross the line in bashing the HGs, and our own faults are sure to get magnified if we're on display 24 hours a day. I can see how some of the HGs' behavior can be justified in the context of BB being a game: lying, backstabbing, DR theatrics, etc. However, there are things that are hard for me to see a "good" person as being capable of doing just for the sake of the game: Ali and Jun claiming that Jack is a pervert, Robert's nasty names for the women, BB2 Boogie using Kent's kids to rile him up, ... Is it really wrong to assume that this behavior reflects on how these people behave in real life? On other shows, contestants can claim to be the victims of editing but on BB, the live feeds take away that excuse.

Is there really nothing that someone on BB can do before that person can be justifiably called "vile"? To me, this happens when a person says something vile and he/she really means it. Yes, that leaves it open to our interpretation of that person's intentions but at least we have some framework for accepting or rejecting arguments.

Steveh

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I am puzzled by repeated posts claiming that I (or we) have no idea of how Alison would act outside of the house. That what we've seen so far is just Ali "playing the game." Apparently "playing the game" means gratuitous slamming (no advancement or enhancement of game position involved) of other contestants, gratuitously lying to and about other contestants, unwillingness or inability to show any empathy toward other contestants, and not the slightest indciation ever of a recognition that there exists beyond the end of her nose a whole diverse world of exciting possibility. Again, how any of these traits (aka "strategy") have helped her get where she is has been lost on me.

Are these posters claiming that Ali has been able to create a persona completely without connection to her outside the house personality? I don't think she can do that. I don't think anyone can do that.

Also, there IS outside-the-house information (often meager, but it all heads in the same direction). From Justin. From Donnie. From her parents. From the pageant director. From members of the Sigma Chis at Bloomsburg (or was it Pitt). From the Pennsylvania Bureau of Motor Vehicles.

If someone wants to say that THEY can't really "know" Alison b/c they just have the BB game to go on (we'll forego the discussion of NOT learning anything about someone after having the opportunity to watch them interact w/ others 24/7 for over two months), that's fine, but I think I know Ali pretty well. I believe I'd have no problem "recognizing" her outside the house, not from how she looks or how she sounds,but by what she says ABOUT other people and how she acts in general toward others.

I didn't say I'd want to; I said I would.

And she's BY FAR the most interesting person on BB4.

Meggieprice

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Steveh- I feel similarly that I don;t think Ali is subtle ebough to have invented a persona the opposite of who she is and kep it going all this time.

I think it is impossible to watch these people without knowing if you might be able to be friends with them outside the house- it is human nature.

For me?

Robert NO
Ali NO
Jun Yes, with care!
Erika Yes

An example for me of why I am upset with Ali is that she is at the point with Jun and Erika that she could tell the truth about what she is doing instead of glorying in the power and, at least up to this latest announcement, promising them both they are safe. If she had some empathy inside her i think she would do that.

Katlady53

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree, Meggie. What's the point of keeping both girls hanging at this juncture? I guess I honestly wonder if Ali is capable of empathy when it comes to competitions.

Steveh

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggie -

If Alison were truly "playing the game" as many claim, then she would have already announced what she's doing tomorrow and why and try to cultivate the vote of the person she's evicting, rather than torture (and therefore p**s off) BOTH of them and maybe lose both their votes b/c of the way she's treating them. She seems to be reveling in the sadistic dynamic she's created. Are you watching the live feeds?

Then there is this. What does the extermination of insects in the BB house have to do w/ "playing the game." Would Ali react any differently and injudiciously use Raid (she seems unaware that it can also be toxic to humans?) any differently were she outside the house? Anyone watching knows the answser to that one.

The indsicriminate spraying of the Raid is one example of HUNDREDS of human reactions that houseguests, including Ali, have while in the BB house, reactions that have NOTHING to do w/ trying to win the 1/2 mill. NOTHING. They are being THEMSELVES, not a game playing persona that they have invented b/c what does--in this case--the killing of the ants have to do with trying to be one of the final two?

Seamonkey

Monday, September 08, 2003 - 03:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Huge kudos to Rob for hiding that Raid.