Archive through September 17, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Such lovely women left in the house (:P not)!: Archive through September 17, 2003

Denecee

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah, I thought it was bad acting on Ali's part when she "confessed" in the DR that she was only acting with the tears for evicting Erika.
Please girl, you are not an actress.

Woodpecke®

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Clio, Robert didn't show any honor telling Jun and Alison about his remarks. It was clearly Robert's way of making amends and clearing the air, as Lance pointed out very well. It was an act of honesty. He was under no obligation to tell the girls at all. He wasn't pushed by Julie and forced to to a thing. On the Alison scale of offenses, I'd give Robert's insults a 4 out of a possible 10 compared to Jun and Alison's constant remarks, which often have been measured at about 8¾.

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok then Wood, lemme rephrase that, I'm not impressed with Robert "apologizing" only after he was called out on the matter.

And I'm not EVEN gonna sit here and try to decide which is worse, Robert calling Ali a wh*re or Ali calling his daughter a b*tch. I'm not making this a Robert vs Ali/Jun thing.

You know that phrase "there's no honor among thieves"? I think that pretty much sums up the whole thing. :)

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Personally I think all three are vile, vile, vile!

Monalisahi

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance

I don't expect Jun or Ali to apologize unless they are called out on it in front of others and they have to in order to insure votes. Now, if they do, I'll be the first to give them credit for it.

Robert seems to have shown that he is a person who mends fences. I think Erika said it was part of AA. <screams "I don't like Robert" before I get pounced on>

However, I want to say, it's not the comments they made toward Robert that bother me.....just like the comments Robert made toward them didn't bother me. The things that bother me are the hypocrisy and most importantly the comments made toward Elena.

NOTE: Yes, there was also this same hypocrisy from Robert, Jee, Justin and Dana......and probably others but those are the one's which I can think of off the top of my head.

Kalekona

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Clio- don't most people apologize after their action has been reveled? I mean sure there are people who realize they've done something wrong and apologize but 9 times out of 10 it's only after the misdeed has been made clear and the subject of it aware before an apology is made.

These two girls DO know the things they have said and if they don't feel the need to apologize they should at least think before making hypocritical comments like "how dare he call us those names he doesn't even know us" Sorry jun he knows you more than you know his daughter... So that argument flys out the window in to "that's absurd land"

Patsyfaye

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
After watching BigBrother for 4 years and loving "Will" I am so disgusted and so bored with the childish and disgusting petty comments of these two "A-moral" girls. Big Brother has been so boring this year, I hope they get the shock of their lives concerning their "star-statis" when this is over and they learn "America's Opinion" of their "scum-sucking" lives. I am not a Robert fan either! None of them are worth watching. No more drama, just petty worthless back-stabbing.

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"don't most people apologize after their action has been reveled?"

Yep, and that's exactly why I don't think Robert's apology is that big of a deal. If Julie called Jun and Ali on their remarks (and oh wouldn't that make for a fun show tonight!) and they apologized to Robert in the same manner he did to them, would everything be kosher then?

Maybe I'm not explaining myself right. It seems to me that some are saying that Robert is somehow the more noble of the bunch because he has apologized. I'm saying that his apology isn't all that remarkable so therefore we can't say that he is less-offensive than the girls are.

Crazydog

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think the more telling thing is that after Robert apologized, Alison acted all high and mighty by saying "what was he thinking" when he made those remarks. Alison is a Hypocrite with a capital H. The saddest thing is that I doubt she even knows it.

Alison to me seems to be the kind of person who truly believes that her poop doesn't stink. She thinks that she is the cutest thing ever, and that she is so angelic, how could you not love her? I think she is vilest character ever on any of Big Brother's 4 seasons, and believe me, there were a lot of candidates to choose from in my book.

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL! Ok, lemme apologize in advance for the hyperbole, but let me make an analogy and see if I can explain myself a little better.

This is how some of the posts sound to me...... "Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and Momar Kadafi ...................... well, you know, Momar has apologized for crashing that jet over Scotland after he was caught, so he's not nearly as bad of a guy as Saddam and Osama."

Now by no means am I saying that Jun, Ali and Robert are as bad as those three but you I think you get what I mean......... even if you find ONE that is slightly more sympathetic than the other two, he's still a pretty bad guy? Right?

Crossfire

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It is the natural order of things.

If someone does something wrong, and has it pointed out to them, the proper thing to do if upon reflection you agree that you are in error, is to apologize.

In return, the gracious reaction if you want to patch things up, and consider the apology to be heartfelt, is to accept it, and move on.

It would be nice if everyone could examine their own behaviour, or not make spur of the moment comments in the first place, but in the real world, this is the social mechanism by which we get past these issues.

On the other hand, I don't think it necessarily to be taken for granted that people who have their errors pointed out to them will automatically recant. Some people will stick it out, or make excuses or otherwise justify their behaviour. A genuine apology even if prompted is still worth something to me.

Earthmother

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I guess the difference might be the acceptance of a mis-deed...Robert obviously felt what he said was wrong and since he got caught (although privately) he should own up to it. I don't know for sure that the girls feel what they said was wrong because after all "he said it first" is the childish mind-set we get to see. What I don't understand is how these people can not see the difference between a direct attack vs an ambush.

How angry and disgusted we are when innocent people are attacked because someone doesn't like what our leaders are doing and yet I hear some of you saying that this attack (though only verbal and on a much smaller scale) on an innocent child is justified because her dad is a jerk and he put her in the limelight. I guess pay-back has no limitations!!

Monalisahi

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I haven't seen anybody say Robert was more "noble." Here is what's happening. When there is a post about Jun and/or Ali (and this thread is about them) it somehow comes across to some that we are defending or excusing Robert. I have been very consistent in my opinion of these 3. I have also posted numerous times that the worst thing IMO was the personal and vengeful attack on a 7 yr old girl who is not a hg and is not part of the game so IMO should be off limits (as all family members should be). Me personally, I draw the line at insulting a little child.... well, actually I draw the line before that point, but that is the lowest, IMO. Based solely on that, and it is my opinion, I think Robert is the lesser of the 3 evils. I am not rooting for any of them. I am not defending Robert, nor am I excusing his words or his actions. Let them call each other names, as long as it's based on some iota of fact and is game related, I don't care. I get bored with it, but I don't care.

I can honestly say that if I were a member of this jury I would give up my stipend and not vote. If I were going to be personally sued (something which would affect my family) then I would have to cast my vote, reluctantly, for Robert. Again, that is solely based on the lowest of low comments (IMO) against Elena.

Note: Yes, I know the jury won't see the comments toward Elena, but I have.

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh and lest there be any confusion, *I* do not think Ali and Jun's comments about Roberts daughter were in any way justified by what Robert has said, it's just that I don't believe in levels of "badness." Wrong is wrong.

Jbfrommi

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Face it, all three of them are wrong. There's not a touch of class among them. Big Brother ought to take the winning money and split it amongst the ousted houseguests.

Missapril

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
with a money reward hanging over their heads, the real world rules hardly apply here. i suppose it doesn't matter to the self-righteous child worshipers among us that jun didn't 'call' elena a b****. she didn't endow her with the 'trait's that derogatory term infers. she used the certainly derrogatory term in the same context one would use the term 'girl', not 'she's a girl', but 'that girl' - it wasn't a description, per se, as much as it was an identifier. very street, certainly not meant to be a term of endearment, but she didn't use it in the context in which robert used it and other derrogatory desciptive terms to imply certain traits applied to both all women and specific house guests. the distinction isn't even subtle to those who want to acknowledge it.

Woodpecke®

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I believe in levels of badness. Absolutely. That being said, I don't care who wins.

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ummmm - I believe in levels of "badness"

-Not putting money in a parking meter is bad

-Murdering someone is also bad

I really, really believe one of these two is worse than the other.

That said - I really don't think one of these three remaining HGs is worse than the other. Robert has irritated me more because his comments were very offensive to me. I see a lot of Ali and Jun's actions as just made up hyperbole and acting - trying to fan each others flames, etc (That is, not heart felt). I also just find it pitiful, and pitiful actions don't tend to outrage me. But still - they are clearly wrong and vile. Every person has things that bother them more than others - nothing 'wrong' about that!

Earthmother

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Has anyone said Robert is exonerated due to an apology...NO!! Should Jun and Ali have gone after him on a personal level if that is their mind-set..WHY NOT? I don't quite understand how seemingly intellegent people can't see the difference between a direct attack on the perp of the crime vs an ambush of his family while they are asleep in their beds..I'm seeing a Mafia mentality rear it's ugly head.

I have to tell you I am truly surprised of what I am hearing from some of you. The justification for this behavior..NOTHING JUSTIFIES TAKING ON AN INNOCENT CHILD..I DON'T CARE WHAT HER FATHER MAY HAVE DONE TO YOU!!!

Denecee

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Everybody keeps talking about the attack against Robert's daughter. It was bad for either of them to say such a thing but I don't believe for one second that they meant it. Also, as far as I can tell, Jun was the one that said it and only said it once. She should apologize, end of story.

Earthmother

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
jun didn't 'call' elena a b****. she didn't endow her with the 'trait's that derogatory term infers. she used the certainly derrogatory term in the same context one would use the term 'girl', not 'she's a girl', but 'that girl' - it wasn't a description, per se, as much as it was an identifier.
OMG..haahahahaha

Well if that's the case Missapril then Jun and Ali should have had no problem being called bi**hes, cuz Robert was just calling them "girl".

Jbfrommi

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Denecee, Alison said it the day before Jun did.

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Now see that goes back to what I said during the Scott incident. Jun said it, no one forced her to say it, so therefore she MEANT it. I don't care if she said it out of anger/hurt or not, it was still wrong and she knows that.

And if Ali was right there and laughed at her comment, didn't object to it, then that was just as bad.

Spunky

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, we're all in agreement the three of them are what they are and we expressed our outrage.

Now, all we can hope is that they'll see just how much they angered us. They won't give a s.hit but they'll know that they'll be the most disliked houseguests in BB history.

Ezgoing

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Juiceman, Earthmother, and Lancecrossfire have all stated my own thoughts perfectly. Thanks for saving me some typing.