Archive through September 12, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through September 12, 2003

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Er...sorry Stev. I'm somewhat comfused today, what with the mime in the house and all. lol Now as to Ali, I still say that if you are the type of person who cares what people say about you, you wouldn't sign on for BB. No, Ali is tough and will console any hurt feelings we would like to imagine she has with whatever money she wins.

R151996

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The only accurate point of reference that we have to use with these HGs are the other HGs in the game. The three remaining HGs have played a better game than the other ten who started simply because they are still around.

IMO, Ali has played the best game of the three left because she had to take decisive action early to get rid of a direct threat to her survival in the game and because of her competitive drive. Jun has played second best because she has shifted alliances when needed and done what else she needed to do to survive. Robert may be the weakest player of the three left because he survived behind a targeted alliance, but he beat the ten no longer around because he put himself in a position to capitalize when he needed to survive.

Certain aspects of HG personalities will always be present whether in real life or in the artifical Big Brother environment. By its very nature though, Big Brother tends to magnify the not-so-pretty elements of HG behavior.

Attempting to equate behavior in BB to behavior in real life is at best a very inexact science; at worst it's totally invalid. Therefore the only reasonable comparisons that should be made are to the other HGs in the same environment. That's why the rules of this board are structured as they are. I agree with the moderaters' enforcement of those rules and hope that they continue to do so as needed.

Steveh

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
<Mod>

Marcellus WAS vicious as was Amy, but they both had a sense of humor about THEMSELVES which Ali has not displayed to me--in the house of course--as of yet. IMO, if one is self-deprecating then his or her slams at others are sometimes easier to swallow and taken in a more benevolent, humorous light.

<Mod>

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yet people must continue to believe that their opinions of the HGs really matter in the long run. <>

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecker said, "If it isn't a defense, then you wouldn't mention Marcie and Amy all the time."

It's my choice to mention them. And, as I said, I don't bring other HG's in as a defense of Ali. I bring other HG's in to the debate to illustrate points that I'm discussing.

"Also patently false. I raked those 2, especially Marcie, because he was vicious to others both inside and outside the house."

I wasn't speaking of you specifically Wood. If I were, I would've said so. It was a general observation about how Marcellus was viewed by the board last year; again, not you specifically. And, I do believe you agreed with me regarding this point about Marcellus in another thread; that Marcellus's behavior was overlooked more often than not last year because his insults were found to be funny.

Meggie, like I asked earlier, if Jun or Ali were as funny as Marcellus and Amy were last year, would you still feel that their comments regarding past HG's were bad? And if so, why? Because you laugh at them then they're not as mean-spirited or cruel? And, if so, then it appears to me that you're applying your judgements unequally.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Wendo

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I've seen little evidence that the majority of posters in this forum actually think that the players will care about what's been said in here.

Meggieprice

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
For me personally, there has been much more bashing this year than last year. And the bashing is different in character. That is my opinion. I turn off the feeds when it starts-always have every year- and I did it a lot more this year. More than any other year.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The point is, the BB house itself is uncensored for the most part. Apparently a lot of people have trouble accepting this fact. That's too bad.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggieprice said, "For me personally, there has been much more bashing this year than last year. And the bashing is different in character. That is my opinion. I turn off the feeds when it starts-always have every year- and I did it a lot more this year. More than any other year. "

Well, I suppose we disagree them. For me personally, last year there was more bashing and viscousness than this year. (Marcellus about Gerry...heck, all the HG's, Amy and Chiara, Lisa about Gerry, Dani about Amy's drinking, Dani and virtually every HG, etc., etc.)

As to the bashing being different in character, I don't see it personally. Many of the things said this year were said last year. And more of it. Again, especially Gerry.

So, basically, we disagree.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, you couldn't be more right.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Basically, bashing is bashing. Alison is a basher. Nasty basher. Hopefully not the winner of this game, in my humble opinion. Her behavior is not the result of acting, either. She knows what she says and does it with purpose. Comparing her to others isn't necessary.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Admit it. Most of you are really mad that there are very few rules in the BB house and none concerning what an HG can say. It's too bad but that' the way it is. They get to say whatever they want to.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Steveh, I've shown you courtesy today in responding to your posts. However, you continue to disrespect my opinion by stating I am wrong. It's my opinion and, therefore, not wrong to me. If you want to disagree, fine. But do not state that MY OPINION is wrong.

(edited to add: When I stated that the "rules are the rules" I was talking about the rules here. That the rules here at TVCH are the rules we have to follow.)

Lastly, as I said, I will not discuss further the rules of this board. Take it up with the Owner, Administrator, or Moderators if you have a problem with them.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't care what they say. Alison can say or do anyone she desires. Glad I'm not in her life.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bravo Wendo!

Charvie

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I look at the bashing like this. When Amy and Marcellus bashed Chiara and Tonya, Chiara and Tonya were both behaving in ways that were unbecoming of young ladies. They may have gone over the top in the bashing, but it was directly correlated to their behavior in the BB house. Neither Jack nor Erika displayed or warranted the bashing Ali and Jun and Robert heap upon them. Sure Erika may have made a comment or two or Jack may have been iffy in a comment, but not to the level that Ali and Jun and Robert speak about it. Also there is something soo low about including a persons outside lifestyle, family or friends in the bashing. I mean Ali and Jun dragged Erika's mom into their bashing. They discussed her form of making a living and whether she had friends and her body into it. Not her behavior but the essence of who she is or they percieved her as being based on Robert's information.

This is my problem with the bashing, they don't bash based on the person's behavior in the house.

And Alison is one of the worst offender's.

Bondmaiden

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It really doesn't matter. They can do what they want.

Moderator

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Folks, let's please stick to conversing about Ali and the issues at BB, and not critiquing each other's behavior and/or their adherence to the rules of this board. We appreciate your cooperation and respect.

<mod>

Steveh

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, how's this?

It's my opinion that Ali has played the game worse than anyone in the history of BB.

She has demonstrated the following characteristics in the house: racial insensitivity, cultural insensitivity, a general insensitivity to any and all other humans whom she was interacting with, dishonesty (when being dishonest did not, IMO, advance her in the game), namecallling, gender preference insensitivity, selfishness (when selfishness did not, IMO, advance her in the game), a frighteningly bad grasp of spoken English, over-reliance on four-letter words, and an overriding dull wittedness that made her infrequent attempts at humor painful to watch.

That she is also more athletic and more cunning and more competitive than anyone in the house, makes her all the more infuriating, but I do not ascribe these qualities to "good game playing" or a "good strategy."

Freddy

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He who wins has played the game the best.

He who sells his soul to the devil to win needs to remember that enternity is a very long time.

Boberg

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Steveh..I am NOT disagreeing with you so please don't start debating me..I will lose..LOL..BUT..
I would be very interested in your ideal of what makes "good game playing" and "good strategy"...How would you play the game if you were a contestant and what would be your winning strategy?

Lostintheglades

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that just about says it all Freddy!

Boberg

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Freddy!

R151996

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My thoughts on Ali's perceived "insensitivities" are that they stem from a general lack of life-experience, something not unusual for a just-turned 23-year-old. Much of what Ali has said and done has been while following the lead of other HGs who based on their ages and backgrounds should have known better.

I don't excuse some of the things Ali has done during the game as I don't excuse some things that almost every other HG has done either. But I don't believe Ali has been noticeably worse than other HGs this year, so I choose to look past those things. Ali can likely benefit more from the experience than other HGs based on her background.

As far as BB history, IMO Ali's game-play cannot be objectively judged worse than Marcellas last year. Being saved (wrongly IMO) by Gerry to only throw it all away by not saving himself puts Marcellas below everyone in the three seasons of this BB format in terms of game-play.