Archive through September 06, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Robert, be a MAN!!!: Archive through September 06, 2003

Seamonkey

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I can understand how any of them are missing their loved ones. That's a good thing.

Ladytex

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Robert IS being a man by showing his emotions about his daughter. Would that every dad felt and showed the same emotion ...

Puzzled

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Many divorced Father's don't get to see their kids because of the Mothers spite!

All a father has to do is get a court-ordered visitation. Mother's spite is a lame excuse, IMO.

Don't care for Robert at all, but I do give him points for being in his little girl's life.

Demsome

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert has never had my heart, but I think its perfectly fine for him to cry if he wants and don't think it makes him less of a man. What makes him less of a man is the things he says about women, not his tears.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
since ali anmd jun say the exact same things about woman are they also less of a woman?

A court ordered visitation only works if the father knows where his child is, many woman take off and leave state. Or simply violate the order and refuse to allow visitation.

Our military do not ask to be sent away for months at a time either they volunteer and yet they are away for months at a time and make much less money than what Robert has the chance to make. choosing to do something that might better your life and your daughters is not something to be sneered at, and the fact that he did doesn't make it easier to be away from his daughter.

Beruthiel

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Perhaps you don't read the papers where I live, Puzzled, or you'd know what I mean.
I also happen to know about that kind of situation first hand. It takes money to go to court, and a lot of Dads haven't got enough left after paying maintenance to feed themselves.

Note, I used the word, "many", I didn't say "all", and it's not a poor excuse if it's the truth.

Demsome

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 11:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes Kalekona it does. I think its just as despicable for women to degrade other women by calling them B****** and wh****.I never said Ali and Jun were admirable either.

Rainwoman

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Beruthiel, I was stating a FACT. In the REAL world, many fathers could care less to be a part of their child's life. Erika is a good example of that, and I am glad they incorporated that into the show. Your area may be a glorious "Father of the Year" celebration every day for all I care, but nationally, it's a different story.

It does not always take a lawyer or money to go to court to get an order to see your child. It's called Domestic Relations, and it's FREE. You have a RIGHT to see your child. It's a matter wheather you WANT TO or not.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Rainwoman i'm sorry to disagree but it is not always that easy. I've known too many guys who have been prevented from seeing their kids, court order and all. It always looks good on paper but when human emotions are envolved things are not always that simple.
And every area does not have what you call donestic relations or free anything when it comes to custody and divorce.

Happypixie

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Beruthiel,Puzzled, Rainwoman....this may be one of the differences between Canada and the USA. My DH works for Dept of Justice in Ottawa, on the Divorce Act and Child Custody and Access dossier. He tells me that you can get court ordered visitations in Canada, but they're rarely enforced....lots of problems with the Act, but they're trying to come up with something that will work better for both mothers and fathers, and especially for the children. I have to agree with Beruthiel that spite/anger/hatred between separated couples causes many problems with child custody/visitation arrangements. Hopefully as the Father's Right's groups gain more support (this is a VERY slow process) we will see a fairer system for everyone.
Hope that helped clarify.

Beruthiel

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 12:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you, Happypixie. You explained the differences perfectly.
I also hope that the new changes will result in a more equitable balance which will benefit all parties, especially the children, who are, after all, the ones who suffer the most when relationships break down.

Rainwoman

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If I were the father, and I am divorced from an evil, lying ex-wife who wants nothing more than to see my life be miserable, preventing me from seeing my child, even in the WORST case scenario, there would be NOTHING STOPPING ME from FIGHTING to see my child that I "love so much"!

If it's in your heart to WANT to be with your child, you will FIGHT with EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to make it happen! It's called A COURT with a JUDGE. If the father choses not to fight to see their child, then it's their own fault.

In most cases, it's a cop-out. The father uses the "my ex-wife won't let me see my child" excuse to get out of being responsible for them.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
come into the real world rainwoman...men are treated unfairly in custody cases everyday in this country and it has nothing to do with how much they want or fight to see their kids, millions simply are not.
Do you have an idea of how much it costs each time you go into court? or the lies a woman can tell to prevent visitation?
This isn't an ideal world and what should be often doesn't matter.
Court orders are ignored everyday, excuses are given not to allow dad to visit are made everyday.
There is no legitament way you can say that everyman who is prevented from visitation isn't trying hard enough or doesn't care.

And yes on a smaller level it is the same with mothers seeking visitation.

Beruthiel

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, Yeah? What about a judge ruling that a father is to have reasonable access, then adds, 'what the mother says is 'reasonable.' And said mother then makes visiting dates for the father and cancels regularly at the last minute, over and over again, for years.
Rainwoman, I'm sorry but you don't know the half of what goes on here in Canada, and I can't be bothered to argue with you any longer, I've got better things to do with my time.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
beruthiel it doesn't just go in Canada, it is no different here in the US.

Avrey258

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow, I guess all those statistics about fatherless homes are just made up? My father left my mom with five kids in 1971. No child support for eleven years. By then it was to late. I am steaming now so I guess I am not the right person to debate this.
I am not implying that there are fathers who get a bum deal, however, in my 30 yrs. of being fatherless I have met many, many kids who have been abandoned by their fathers. It is simple to find the stats for fathers who abandon their families. It has become such a problem in many states that they even try to "catch" them when they try to renew their driver's license.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Avery no one is saying there are not dead beat dads. Just that there are fathers who want to be involved that are prevented from doing so not by their own choice.

Avrey258

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 01:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kale,
I belive that there are fathers like that, but they are few and far between from what I have seen. You should check out the stats on abandoned children. Seriously, you would be shocked at how many kids are born in the U.S. where the father has never even tried to be in the picture. It is heartbreaking.

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Avery I'm one of those kids.. I saw my father rarely and received zero support from him.. But i have never let it be an issue, (in fact my mothers abandonment effected me much more) I can say that i know so many dads that DO want to be apart of their childrens lives and are not allowed to and so many that just can't be bothered that seeing men like Robert (no matter what verbal smack comes out of his mouth) Are to be comended and respected.

Rainwoman

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thumbs up for Avrey258! thumbsup2


I cannot speak for what goes on in Canada. I am from the USA! AmericanFlag

C1mag

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert is to be comended and respected? Hmmm... won't be going to that party. He's simply doing what is expected of him as a parent and it's worth noting he's coming to the table after a bit of a delay in that department. The "smack" that comes out of his mouth even makes it worse. This isn't just simple filth that he spews. It's hatred towards females in general. Nice message to send to his female child. Nope! There won't be any father of the year trophys being handed over to Robert real soon.

I feel the same exact way about Robert in this game as I do Alison. I was so happy Robert got this last hoh, but as a man and a father who is impressionable he needs a lot of work. It's impossible to defend this mans negative actions simply because someone feels he recieves too much grief on a message board. Same with Alison. LOVE LOVE LOVE the drama she has given to this game. Could have even done a happy dance when I found out she won the veto but as a human being the woman needs a big wake up call.

Whit4you

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well what I was trying to say is that Robert is definately NOT the norm when it comes to an alcholic - and while he's no saint I am personally very impressed with his commitment to his child. Speaking just from personal knowledge of dozens of recovering alcholics - few if any could have made it through this experience with the stress - boredome - no support network - booze all around them and so on without falling off the wagon. More than his tears or his words, this proves to me he is a loving dad.

As far as the above discussion - there are two going on and they are being lumped into one, which could cause confusion and/or hurt feelings. As a friend I'd like to suggest trying to differentiate the two topics to avoid that. HUGS*

Kalekona

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
c1 there are fathers living with their children who are not as invested in their childs lives.
Yes Robert should be commended, he has a good relationship with his childs mother and a great one with his daughter.. as for coming to the table late i think that is your interpretation, robert said he quit drinking when he realized it was effecting his ability as a father, he couldn't take his daughter to school etc. that alone says he was invovled before, and envovled enough that he could see when he started to faulter.
There has never been anything claiming he was a dead beat dad.
And roberts behavior today has far exceeded that of the women in the house.

Whit4you

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1Mag - hmmm I think you are being a little harsh how could you possibly know him as a parent? I don't know how you acted the last time you were locked up in a house for 3 months - put as a target from day one - with a group of catty people, but I highly doubt it'd be fair for us to judge YOU as a parent based on your actions 24/7 there.

(the rest of this isn't to you - just the convo in general...)

Sometimes I wonder if people forget we are talking about real people with real feelings. I think my son is a very very good dad - but when he's around his friends he'd make Robert look like a saint (as far as his language and trying to act cool saying stupid stuff etc....) Unlike Robert though, my son won't give up his booze, or even cut down for his child. Alot of alcholics are like that. Robert did for his kid - he's doing something so few could - and that'd include other good parents like my son.

These are real people - with real feelings. For all we know he could be a TVCH member who's going to come back to read all this vial stuff spewed towards him. Personally I don't see the things he says as much worse than some of what's said here ABOUT him - am I to assume those spewing nasty messages about him are not good parents as well? Oh ya I forget 'two wrongs make a right' - with some here.

C1mag

Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He's finally doing what is expected of him when he chose to be a parent. I find no great accomplishment in that. The smack he talks is specifically direct at females which also happens to be his childs gender. He loses big points in that department as a parent. My interpretation is based on his own comments. He's a dunk who admits he wasn't a responsible parent at one time. Therefore at some point he wasn't sitting at the table. I don't consider sitting in her presents while he is loaded to be defined as "a part of her life" Dead beat daddy isn't just defined by handing out money to feed and cloth her. At one point he obviously was not providing a healthy environment for her to live in.

Actually your praise of Roberts behavior today makes my point. He finally acts half decent and all of a sudden he merits praise. It still doesn't change the fact that this man has at times been VILE, sexist, crude and insulting when it comes to women. I'm sure that Charles Manson ( although an an extreme example) has been a good inmate every now and again but it sure doesn't make him a saint.