Archive through September 15, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: BB producers better do something about Robert!:
Archive through September 15, 2003
Hamsterlady | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 07:51 am     Oh come on! LOL Sure he can TELL the members of the jury how to vote. He could tell them to bark like dogs if he wanted to for that matter. They just don't HAVE to do it. It's their choice whether or not they'll vote the way Robert wants them to. And also, Robert voluntarily entered this game. Nobody forced him to play this game. ASP and/or CBS didn't 'plant' him there to 'fix' the game. Because if that was the case and it was discovered that Robert had affected the outcome under direction from the producers, then THAT would be 'fixing' the game. But he's not a plant. He's a willing player that voluntarily chose to play the game. Nuff said. |
Lorry | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 07:52 am     You would be correct, Rainwoman, if an outsider, a member of the staff, or Arnie himself stepped in to influence with intent to affect the jury's vote. However, the game BB is all about cheating, lying, conning and influencing the other players... and they can do that as long as it is not a "physical" threat. What Robert is doing, IMO, is exactly what the game calls for. He is playing his last hand and bluffing and cheating and lying.... I say... GO ROBERT ! He is threatening to influence the other game players.... he is not doing anything outside the rules of the game. It would be very different if he said he would beat someone up or get the jury to beat someone up... He is saying he will have those votes he can controll, to vote against whomever evicts him... that is what the game is about. The jury is sequested so that outsiders (those not in the game itself) cannot influence the jury... but they can and should and will, influence each other.... otherwise why even call them back to vote??? Why pay them a stipend and give them a vacation if not still in the game??? The game continues, even once you are evited. You are still in the game, and play an important role as a vote at the end of the game... so until that vote takes place, the players themselves can still campaign for either themselves, or if evicted, for their favorite players. JMO |
Monalisahi | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 07:57 am     Rainwoman, wouldn't that FCC regulation apply to the producers of the show and not the hg's? If not, better call the law because Ali threw a veto competition. Justin threw a HOH comp. And Jun has said she will throw the final HOH comp!!! Many bragged about throwing comps. Each member of the jury will influence the outcome of the game, since they alone will determine the outcome. |
Mystery | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 07:57 am     Robert has the right to try to save himself by saying what he'll do to the person who eliminates him. As long as he doesn't pick up a knife or a chair, I don't think BB will think his "threats" are dangerous. |
Sbw | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:04 am     Rainwoman, again you said BB has rules on this. Where are you getting your information? You state you have visited a site, what type of site, a web site - what web site? When a game's premise is on influencing other people to determine the outcome of a game, you HAVE to influence the outcome of the game in one manner or another - this is not a game about specific tasks to complete. I agree with you, as Lorry does above, that if it was in reference to someone on staff, etc who is trying to "fix" the outcome that it could be illegal - and I have completely different feelings about that. Someone has suggested that this may not be classified as a game show and I am very inclined to believe that this is true because it is obvious they do not adhere to game show "laws". Most of us have not seen the contract between BB and the HGs. If you have or know where a copy is located, I am sure everyone here would love for you to share that information. |
Alexia | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:05 am     What I don't understand is that this is the EXACT same tactic that the "dream team" (*cough* *cough*) tried to use on Ali when Erica and Jack were nominated. It backfired right in their faces. So why on earth would Robert use a tactic that he already knows will only bite him in the behind???? Not to mention that Erica told Jack that they threatened Ali when he was on the way out the door so the Jury members already know about this tactic and might even applaud Jun and Ali for not giving in to it! (provided they evict Robert out of course) |
Theowl | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:05 am     SeaMonkey, I can understand how anyone could have misunderstood Julie, because when she said "second to the last" part, it was slurred and I had to rewind and listen a couple times. And thank you for acknowledging my post. That doesn't happen very often.  |
Earthmother | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:15 am     How much time did Marcellus have to make sure Amy and everyone else knew what Dani was up to..Robert can do some severe damage if he were to tell all, and I for one hope he does. This is a game, remember. |
Ezgoing | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:17 am     Rainwoman, your claim that there are federal rules which dictate that game shows be done fairly is completely accurate, but I believe your interpretation of how it is applied is what's causing some dissention. From your posts, it seems to me that you are protesting Robert's admonitions to Jun and Ali that IF they evict him, he will do everything he can to convince his fellow evictees to cast their ballot for the OTHER Finalist, in other words "influencing, prearranging, or predetermining outcome." The problem with that is it assumes Robert CAN actually do that. He can't. He can TRY to talk to the others and get them to see things his way. He may even be successful in convincing someone to change their vote if they'd been planning to vote for the one who evicted him; he may be just the one to make up someone's mind if they were still undecided. But he CANNOT guarantee anything, period, therefore there is NO predetermined outcome and no violation. Those rules were created because it meant the contests were not true competitions with the winner unknown ahead of time; they were "fixed" and the contestant who won or lost was often 'in' on the scheme. Robert is not in cahoots with the producers to arrange which remaining hg will win the prize. He is just doing exactly what other hgs have done trying to improve their position within the house or exert some power, real or imagined. This is similar to when a reigning HOH will warn the POV winner NOT to upset their nominations or risk becoming the prime target the following week. That's an 'influence' which tries to 'prearrange or predetermine outcome' as well. The law covers all stages of the game, not just the final round, so if that practice were truly illegal, CBS would have stepped in long ago. Please do NOT take my comments as any sort of disagreement, argument, negative judgment, etc because it is not offered as anything other than another perspective regarding the legal factor on which you based your premise that what Robert was doing was not allowable. As you said, BB has rules on this as well. And we have already seen BB step in when hgs have demonstrated inappropriate/"against the rules" behaviors so we know they have no hesitation to act since it protects them legally as well(expelling hgs for threatening actions; admonishing Jee and Robert, possibly Justin (memory fails me at the moment) for verbally agreeing to share any winnings with each other; intervening when Shannon (BB2)used Hardy's toothbrush to clean the toilet, etc). About the only BB rule we have seen unused despite potential episodes of infraction is the infamous Penalty Nomination . Not sure what it would take to get that to be utilized, but so far, nothing seems to have met the criteria for such a response. Thanks for starting a provocative thread. When our hgs get boring our board can still be lively! |
Prisonerno6 | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:23 am     "Section 509. Prohibited practices in contests of knowledge, skill, or chance. (a.) INFLUENCING, PREARRANGING, OR PREDETERMINING OUTCOME. It is against the law, and it carries a $10,000 fine/jail time." Read the subsections. Section 509 Prohibited Practices In Contests Of Knowledge, Skill, Or Chance (a) Influencing, prearranging, or predetermining outcome It shall be unlawful for any person, with intent to deceive the listening or viewing public - (1) To supply to any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill any special and secret assistance whereby the outcome of such contest will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined. (2) By means of persuasion, bribery, intimidation, or otherwise, to induce or cause any contestant in a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge or intellectual skill to refrain in any manner from using or displaying his knowledge or skill in such contest, whereby the outcome thereof will be in whole or in part prearranged or predetermined. (3) To engage in any artifice or scheme for the purpose of prearranging or predetermining in whole or in part the outcome of a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance. (4) To produce or participate in the production for broadcasting of, to broadcast or participate in the broadcasting of, to offer to a licensee for broadcasting, or to sponsor, any radio program, knowing or having reasonable ground for believing that, in connection with a purportedly bona fide contest of intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance constituting any part of such program, any person has done or is going to do any act or thing referred to in paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection. (5) To conspire with any other person or persons to do any act or thing prohibited by paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4) of this subsection, if one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of such conspiracy. (b) ''Contest'' and ''the listening or viewing public'' defined For the purposes of this section - (1) The term ''contest'' means any contest broadcast by a radio station in connection with which any money or any other thing of value is offered as a prize or prizes to be paid or presented by the program sponsor or by any other person or persons, as announced in the course of the broadcast. (2) The term ''the listening or viewing public'' means those members of the public who, with the aid of radio receiving sets, listen to or view programs broadcast by radio stations. (c) Penalties Whoever violates subsection (a) of this section shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. Note the repeated use of the phrase "intellectual knowledge, intellectual skill, or chance." The final vote has nothing whatsoever to do with any of those three. It's merely an opinion poll of the jury -- who they think should win the money. It doesn't say anything in Section 509 about opinion polls or not influencing people's opinions. If that were the case, the BB producers would be liable since we know they show bias in editing the shows, and since people vote in the America's Choice contests, the shows influence the winners of opinion polls. Hamsterlady and Lorry have it exactly right. There is nothing Robert can do to *force* people to vote his way. He can try all he wants, and short of committing another crime in doing so (coercion or blackmail, for instance), he's perfectly within the scope of game play. Isn't that what all the bashing that's been going on is, game play? Trying to influence the eviction votes? It's just part of the game, and nothing wrong with it. |
Jimmer | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:25 am     I think Robert’s strategy is solid and probably the only possible thing he can do at this point. I’m only surprised that this isn’t done more often. And, please don’t suggest that the strategy is childish or morally wrong after some of the other stuff that’s been said or done in this game. |
Earthmother | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:33 am     But, I CANNOT TELL THE JURY HOW TO VOTE. I CANNOT TELL THEM TO "FIX" THE OUTCOME OF THE SHOW BECAUSE I AM PISSED OFF! Sounds to me like you are giving Robert a whole lot of credit!! No one can makeanyone do anything, but he might persuade them to vote his way if he tells the truth about some of the stuff that's been said..he doesn't have to tell them what he has said and no one would be the wiser. GAME ON!! what's good for the goose is good for the gander.. |
Tatyana | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:41 am     oh come on, what's the difference or Robert threatening to try to get the jury to vote his way, said to jun's face, and all the HG's saying to other HG"s faces while they are HOH "if you don't vote the way I want to vote you'll be up next for eviction". That happens every BB and this is no difference. Besides, if BB didn't step in when Nicole said to Will's face, I'll slit your wrists, not sideways but up and down", they are not going to step in for this. |
Woodpecke® | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:47 am     This discussion is silly. Those rules don't cover Robert in a sequestered jury. Part of the skill involved in this game is influencing the other players. This isn't "Password". It's closer to "Family Feud". Although I never heard Richard Dawson say "Let me see B***es, S**ts, and Wh*res!" |
Crossfire | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 08:50 am     This is perplexing. That people who you 'walk to the door' will work either for or against you on the jury is a big, and intended feature of the game. This is by design, intended, anticipated, expected, and often desirable for the effect it has on the house. |
Kalekona | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 09:49 am     Let us not forget that AS said the HG in the jury house would still be "playing" the game. If you don't think they have compaired notes or that Dana hasn't done her own campaining against Ali your wrong. Robert has every right to do this.. in fact his biggest mistake was to ever tell Ali he would NEVER vote for jun.. before that she felt he would be a vote against her and was going to keep her. I'm still hoping that Ali gets in Roberts face and they toss her biggoted butt out of there but since that won't likely happen I think anything Robert says that makes them question their allience is only good for him and troubling for ali and jun. |
Maris | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 09:53 am     I have a question. I have seen a lot of posts about various evicted houseguests potentially telling others how to vote. Do we know that they are allowed to discuss the game and what has happened since their eviction with the newly evicted. Why would Shapiro control what they see (i.e. only the competitions) if he is going to allow the newly evicted to tell the others what has been said about them, what has been done inside the house since they left. Looking at the sequestered hg tapes, I havent seen them discussing activities that have transpired other than them sitting down and watching the tape the newly evicted has brought to them. Is it possible that one of their rules is that they are not allowed to discuss anything other than what they see on tape? Does anyone know if they have any special BB rules in the sequestration house. I also dont think Robert is going to go to the sequestration house and will probably be just sent to a hotel in LA for a week. |
Wendo | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:08 am     Gidget, you mentioned that you felt that Robert's tactic was all wrong. That he should have promised Jun that he would make sure that the jury would vote for her to win the half mill if she took him over Ali. While I agree that would maybe be a better tactic than threatening Jun (because, Jun is a strong woman and is likely not going to respond to threats), I don't think Robert would ever do this. Why? Because, when it comes down to it, Robert still wants a chance to win the half mill, despite the fact he says he'd be happy with just the 50 g's. Were he to do what you suggest, he'd be risking a chance at first place and I don't think he wants to do that. Just some thoughts. |
Cricket | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:08 am     Funny you should say that about Robert not going to the sequester house, Maris. I saw this on live feeds: "Jun wants to know if they should ask BB if he will go to jury house." Why would she be wondering this? Are her and Ali going to complain about him in the DR? He did really upset Jun, ergo her migraine yesterday. However, he said the same thing to Ali and obviously it didn't phase her, but she neglected to mention it to Jun. I can't help but think that's because Ali is planning on taking him. The DR is being very clear they don't want the women to tell Robert he will be going. |
Kalekona | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:14 am     Telling robert is without a doubt breaking the rules.. |
Crazydog | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:16 am     I believe the DR doesn't want Robert to know he is going because they don't want a pouty, difficult Robert to deal with for the next three days. Imagine if all the footage of him they have for the next two days is of him looking glum and not talking to anyone. I also think they are afraid of what he is going to say during the live show, they think he will spoil the surprise and ruin it for the TV viewers who are not following the feeds or boards. |
Crazydog | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:18 am     I'm not clear on why telling Robert is breaking the rules. The houseguests have always talked about voting and strategy and all that, right? How is it any different if Ali (or Jun) goes up to him and says, 'listen, I may win HoH on Wednesday, if I do, tell me why I should keep you instead of Jun (or Ali)'? |
Flamingo | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:18 am     Robert couldn't promise jun (or Alison) that he'd persuade the jury to vote for them if they took him, since if they do take him and he makes the final 2 he has no contact with the jury. |
Gidget | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:20 am     Flamingo- They get to make a plea to the jury before the vote. Also, they do not know how much the jury is being allowed to see. |
Kalekona | Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:21 am     crazydog that's different than telling him... it's decided whoever wins your out go pack... They have never been allowed to outright say how they voted, (they are told to keep their vote secret) for the very reason you said.. what's the point in the live show if the outcome is preordained, unquestionably. |
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