Archive through September 25, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: **SPOILERS** Last Show - Wed. 09/24/03:
Archive through September 25, 2003
Andysmojo | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:13 pm     I hope your right Csnog. Jack came out of this being the true gentleman. The others may in time realize that they all said mean and hurtful things. No one came out of this (with the exception of Jack) looking honorable or good. |
Lovedana | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:15 pm     I cannot believe I heard Alison make this argument that she was superior to Jun intellectually, psychologically and ... I forget the last (was it emotionally?). Did this girl ever inspect the game as a spectator? I hope she goes home and watches the entire game, because I would hope she would come to accept that Jun is not only a better player psychologically, she was the best player on an intellectual level, amongst the last few players left. (But then again, I have seen Alison act delusional, especially with her perception of Justin's relationship with her.) Jun played the game really well. First off, she was upfront about her intentions. To start with, her frame of reference was the kitchen. She could see everything from that angle. She could also hide there, make people fall in love with her cooking and subconsciously lean on her as a mother figure. Basically, it's the same role/game Nicole played on BB 2, except Jun wasn't as forceful as Nicole was in playing that role. Furthermore, Jun was influential in decisions by the "Stooges" when they had the power. Then she dumped them just when it was appropriate. She also formed alliance with Dana when it was useful, and she managed to deflect attention from herself. Lastly, she had the secret alliance with Jee; and she successful made Jee trust their commitments--in spite of her repeated statement to the Jee3 that she would have to break up the alliance at some point. She successfully planted some seed of trust so Erika or Alison would trust her promise about the girl alliance. I think Alison and Nathan knew about the alliance between Jun and Jee, but they didn't make any efforts to break it up. It seems they didn't realize how effective it was at that time. Jee claimed he was only allying with Jun temporarily, but I don't believe him. He seemed too sucked in and trusted her up until he was evicted. Alison took the easier but longer route and did things she didn't have to do. Go Jun! |
Yoyo | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:20 pm     I agree, kailas. And i didn't shed a tear when Bob hugged Jun. BS! Of course he's there, it was a no brainer that she had a good chance of winning half a million dollars. Neither of those two deserved to win any money, but it won't buy them happiness. My only dispointment with tonight's show was Nate voting for Ali. Aaarrrgghhh, will someone please talk some sense into that guy? |
Slothkitten | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:22 pm     Loved that Bob was there for June and the way he swept her up and did'nt let go.. Can't help it,I'm a softie! This finale had me so TENSE...lol I was convinced by several posters clear and concise anlysis that Ali would win for sure.. go figure!!So glad June won. Good to see the entire group together again, Michelle still sticks out with her clueless self. I agree w/other posters who said the jury has'nt yet had time to process all thier thoughts and feelings...I hope we get some information from them online..tell,please! Thank you wonderful Spoilers,AND all you posters, lot's of fun reading your opinions(mostly!lol)*ducks* |
Wendo | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:23 pm     Caycaye said, "And as for the few people who "jumped" on us "supposed" Ali-bashers.....well, atleast the 6 out of 7 jury members (7 out of 7 if Nathan had seen the tapes) had the same opinion as us and were willing to give Jun the money to prove it!!" Caycaye, no need to belittle those who were Ali fans or who wanted her to win. As for "jumping" on people, most people didn't do that; they debated because they didn't agree. Additionally, there's no way to know how the jury would've voted had they viewed the tapes before hand. Jun won. Congrats Jun. Ali won second place. Congrats Ali. It's a lot more than the jury members got who got played right out of the house by these two. And I agree with many who said Jack showed the most maturity of all of them tonight. He understood it was a game. Period. He may not have played the game well, imo, but he scored a whole bunch of points with me tonight. One can express displeasure at another without sounding bitter. IMO, the jury (barring Jack) sounded like bitter sore losers. |
Andysmojo | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:28 pm     I agree Wendo. Sore losers sums it up perfectly! Yea Jun for winning, yea Alison for making it to the F2, yea Jack (your da man!) |
Wendo | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:35 pm     Monalisahi said, "Why on earth would they be fake and congratulate them?" It's called sportsmanship Monalisahi. You can hate your opponent all you want, but true sportsmanship is congratulating your opponent for playing the game and winning. Caycaye said, "I think it makes Ali people feel better to call them sore losers....." Again, no need to direct negative comments toward those who were behind Ali. It honestly weakens your argument. Debate the topic at hand, not the posters. "but I seriously doubt ALL seven are immature "sore losers"....(they did congratulate them when they came in the house)." No, not all seven. Jack was mature from the get go. My point about them behaving as sore losers is with respect to after the vote was revealed. No one said, WTG Jun, etc. I realize they still are raw from viewing the tapes. But, as I said above, true sportsmanship and maturity is rising above your feelings and shaking the winners hands. "As Monalisahi says..they GENUINELY don't like either one of them...neither does alot of other people...and why be like Ali...and put on "OUR FAKE SMILES" and fakely congratulate....." As I said, do it to be the better person. Rise above. IMO, they came off just as bad as Jun and Ali these past few days. (With the exception of Jack.) "most of them spoke their congrats in their key ceremony, even though they may have added on a negative or two." And they have every right to. And, I feel they were petty, bitter, and behaved like sore losers. (Again, with the exception of Jack.) |
Jhezzie | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:35 pm     Yeah for Jun! I didn't really watch, though. I peeked in during commercials on West Wing. I did get to see poor Michelle being "tramatized." ROTF! I also saw a bit of the "I can't believe you said.." stuff too. Funny. Ah, well. Here's to a better group next year! |
Lovedana | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:36 pm     You know, based upon Nathan's views during his stay at the house, I have to wonder if his reason for choosing Alison was because he couldn't stand to see a minority win. I'm just wondering. I'm not saying I'm sure that's why. I just suspect that either he's like the other guys (i.e., Hardy and Jason) from previous BBs who were so in love with the nasty women who made it to the final two, so they voted for them--in spite of their behavior. Or I think he just couldn't stand seeing Jun win but would have voted for Jun if she were of the same color as he. Well, of course there's also the chance that he really did think Alison played the best game or at least a better game. Who knows! P.S. It's easy for Jack to say it was just a game because he was detached from the other houseguests (with exception to Erika) for the most part. Perhaps it was also easy for him to be detached because they were way younger than he. It only made sense to focus on it as a game, since he could hardly have much in common with them. On the other hand, the rest of the houseguests were of the same age groups or at least not significantly apart in age. They easily bonded. As a result, they could easily take things personal. There was also the ex factor. The goal [of having exes there] was to stir up emotions in the game. So, how's it hard to see people taking things personal? |
Max | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:57 pm     Well, I think it's a first for reality shows that NOT ONE of the other cast members even ATTEMPTED to hug or pat the winners on the back at the end. Jack was the most gracious in what he said, but he was still standoffish at the end. I'm not surprised at how the votes went at all. Nathan voted for Ali before he saw all the tapes. If it had been the other way, there's NO WAY she would have gotten his vote,IMHO. Personally, I'm glad Ali lost. 'Nuff said.  |
Meggieprice | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:04 pm     The two in the house never truly bonded with anyone- that is the eay they chose to play the game and it worked and got them into the finaly two. However, it also meant that the rest of the people in the house, especially having so recently seen the tapes, felt alienated and angry with them. It should not upset them- or us- the way they were treated in the end as IMO the type of game they played led them to that treatment. Yay Jun! |
Ric_Munoz | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:12 pm     Anyone But Robert -- that's all I asked for and that's what I got. (Nathan ruined my 7-0 prediction - drat!) By far the most HORRENDOUS season ever. If they bring back that X-factor drivel next year, I'm gonna have plenty of free summer nights in 2004. |
Dram | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:30 pm     I just watched my tape again and I don't know why a lot of people here are saying they (the jury) didn't congratulate them. They did. They stood up and clapped and I heard the word congratulations from quite a few. I didn't see any "sour grapes", maybe some quiet hurt but other than that and the few comments that were made while pulling the keys, it was a bit frosty, yet cordial. |
Seamonkey | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:37 pm     Congrats to Jun.. Hooray for Jack and Dave! Michelle really does think the world revolves around her. Too bad she wasn't first out so we could have learned more about Amanda. I found some very amusing hypocrisy. Jee lashed out about betrayal when he did the same thing, just not in a very intelligent way (the PBJ, the "life on the line", and he would have happily allowed Robert to be booted instead of him..) The whole Jee3, all drama queens over Jun floating?? Please, she told them she was floating but only after they made it clear that 1. They were loyal to each other, not to Dana/Jun 2. After Dana left, Jun asked them multiple times if they were still including her in their alliance and they never could look her in the eye or commit, really..so best for her to move on. Not to mention that as soon as Justin left, Robert and Jee clearly were wanting alliance with ALI, even though Jun had been with them longer.. actually I think Ali had moved in before Justin left.. they never promised Jun she was safe, ever, but Ali was safe.. again.. why would Jun owe the dream team a thing? She and Dana clearly saved them early on. They never saved Jun. Robert complaining about Jun at the end is ridiculous since Robert was playing all the remaining people. Jack trying to say he had an alliance with Jun, uh.. he talked to Erika about various alliances but not with Jun. At that very time he was heard in the hottub talking about how Erika should be the one to go and he would then ally with Jee and Robert to boot out Jun and Ali.. methinks Ali and Jun had EVERY reason to boot Jack at that point.. Erika too. Erika dares accuse Jun of getting people to do her dirty work.. Erika herself brought up the getting others to do her dirty work concept from the beginning and week after week crowed about others doing her dirty work.. like Dave being booted, Michelle being booted, and so on.. then she "allied" with Jun and Ali but secretly allied with Robert and, I believe, let Robert win HOH to, again, DO HER DIRTY WORK.. so she had no legit. complaint that Jun was "less than" Ali in that respect. And Jun did win HOH, once, as did Erika.. and Ali claimed to have thrown it to each of them, but Jun also won veto, which Erika never did, and cleverly put Ali on the block so that Ali couldn't pull a fast one with her veto. And Erika did quite a lot of bashing of Jun, less of Ali, but still quite a lot. And I think she does know this and that is why she voted for Jun. Dana, well Dana was in alliance with Jun and she not only got sidetracked with the Jee-3 and the relationship with Justin, but she made SURE that her alliance with Jun was outed so that everyone knew, as Jun pointed out, that pretty much meant that her alliance with Dana was not to be lasting. Jun-Jee alliance.. well Ali-Justin alliance, or mutual protection.. and ultimate Rob-Erika alliance.. so don't complain about Jun-Jee.. and she didn't lie.. when she was HOH, she didn't protect Jee when she had promised Erika and Ali they would boot the guys.. Erika turned around and was allied with Robert even though she had promised to the girls. Nathan's bitterness with Jun.. well gollee.. when he was on the block he was promising everything short of a blow-job to Justin and the dream team to join with them, betraying his alliance and also attempting to move in on whatever alliance Jun had with Jee-3.. so who's the sneaky snake? And to a lesser extent, some were hypocritical in trashing Ali as well. Oh and Robert and Erika's reaction to Jun's explanation of her cooking strategy??? Bad answer? And why is that? Because she succeeded and some of their strategies didn't? (Erika's big sister act with Ali, and attempt at that with Nate, Dave, daughter act with Jack, Robert's understanding talks with people, followed by trashing and betraying? Cooking worked and it was actually useful.. I think for Jee this may be some closure because I DO think he does realize how much he and his family took that Jun was willing to give and his being one of her votes shows that Jee is NOT shallow in that way. I think the change I would have made would have been for Jun and Ali to see statements made by the jurors.. I think it would have brought down the level of drama a bit. As it is 6 of the jurors made some mighty righteous statements .. and Jun and Ali have yet to see some of the really nasty comments made about them. Anyway, 'tis over.. I hope Jun and Bob make it. I think Jun, as she said was really listening to the comments more than the votes and when she sees the shows will be more chagrinned and take things to heart.. Ali, not so sure, because I think her parents will hand her huge heaps of junk justifications.. Too bad, because this could have been a learning experience for Ali as well. If Donny wrote that note word for word, and Julie did say it was a quote.. then he's vastly more well-spoken than Ali.. Night all.. it's been mostly fun.. see you on the flip side in Survivor |
Lovedana | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:45 pm     I disagree, Meggieprice! I can agree about Jun not bonding, but Alison bonded with Erika. It may not have been a very strong bond (well, it definitely wasn't that strong), but it was the sense of security she sent out to Erika. Oh yeah, how could I forget the bonding game she played with Nathan? LOL! I won't say she was right or wrong for playing that role and giving someone a false sense of friendship. Oh, that reminds me: Those who were all over Dana for her decision to nominate Alison and saying she was taking things personal by nominating Alison, I wonder if you're still of that opinion. I said from the start that Dana was making a wise decision strategically. The only mistake she made was trusting Nathan and failing to nominate him; or her failure to play hard for the POV. Nevertheless, I always thought Alison was a threat gamewise, and I didn't particularly like her (i.e., she was irritating with her voice and attitude). Anyway, I guess hindsight is 20/20. All of the anti-Dana folks and absolutely pro-Alison may still dislike Dana, but they certainly became the biggest haters of Alison. LOL! They hate Alison more than I would dare. I am indifferent toward her and don't particularly like her, but I wouldn't sweat it if she won first prize. Don't get me wrong, though, for I'm still happy Jun won rather than Alison. |
Caycaye | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:45 pm     Actually the last part of your post, WENDO, was MY quotes...not Monalisahi's...even though occasionally we do sound alike..... And as for personally debating posters...I only stated the TRUTH about SOME posters who never seemed to let anyone disagree with them without being condescending, and that my opinion DID have validity after all.... I didn't mention any names...and if it seemed like I was insulting anyone or trying to be mean...I sincerely apologize...that was not my intention. |
Spear | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:47 pm     Seamonkey, Erika and Robert's reaction was to Jun's explanation of her personal attacks of the others. Jun basically said she finds humor in making personal attacks and she would be happy to know she got her digs in when she sees the tapes of the others bashing her. And I agree that that was a bad answer. |
Meggieprice | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:53 pm     Lovedana- Ali did not truly bond with anyone- it was fake from beginning to end. She said so in DR and with her actions later. Her statements about why she was pretending to bond were one of the reasons I went from liking to disliking her. Sea- very well thought out! The one thing I really have to disagree with though is thinking that Erika threw that HOH to Robert. They knew before HOH that there would be a POV that week- and I think Erika really wanted that HOH. She was only 7 hours off- no, I respectfully disagree- I do not think she threw that HOH but it was her ticket outa there... yay JUN! |
Auntiemike | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:05 pm     on: when JC interviewed Jun and Ali near end, she asked if they would be friends outside of the house. Jun's response: probably not Ali's response: yes we will Shows really clearly who is the smartest and who lives in a fantasy world. IMO |
Monalisahi | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:25 pm     Caycaye...lol....but I agree with it |
Vskatefan | Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:40 pm     General comments: It is obvious Michelle was not emotionally fit to be on the show. She seems to be a nice person, but probably has been coddled by her parents and not experienced enough to be in this sort of dog fight. Ali didn't win-I am happy Sure he sucked at the comps, but my I still like my man Jack! Jun says all these terrible things about Jack and then says she wants to stay in contact with him? I wonder if Jun lied to Julie or if her slams on Jack were to appease Ali? Jack was right-Jun was the smartest player. I don't agree with those saying Jun slid through. She was in control or close to being in control of many of the eviction votes in the house. She planted seeds and then let the others get themselves into trouble when those seeds grew. Not a bad strategy. Nathan, Nathan, Nathan... bless his heart.. Ali had him roped all the way to the end. |
Wendo | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:12 am     Lovedana said, "I said from the start that Dana was making a wise decision strategically (nominating Ali.)" A wise decision strategically would've meant nominating Ali WITH Nathan. Their alliance to each other was in plain sight. IMO, Dana was clouded by emotion. Her diary rooms around that time about Ali speak to this. |
Wendo | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:17 am     After re-watching the show, this is my final asessment of BB4's HG's. Jack = Class Dana, Nathan, Justin, Jee, Erika, Robert = No Class As for the initial bootee's, Amanda and Dave seem like decent people. Michelle, too young to have even been in the game. Scott, didn't get a chance to know him. And, well, that's it for me. I echo everyone else when I say, Arnie, do a little bit better on that casting ok? LOL! |
Monalisahi | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:20 am     Wendo, I agree that she goofed by not putting the 2 up together. But, wasn't it in case the veto was used then she would put up Nate? I'm not sure on that, but that's what I'm thinking. I think the hg's this year, especially Jee 3 and Dana, over-evaluated the POV and didn't really plan wisely for it. And thinking back on the Jee 3, they were probably there figuring out the odds (lol, they always killed me when they did that) of Nate winning POV. |
Wendo | Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:36 am     Monalisahi, no, it had nothing to do with nominating Nate. Dana thought Nate would abide by her wishes and Ali would go. She misread the relationship that Ali and Nate had; despite the fact that it was so blatant. Oh well! LOL! If she HAD been considering the veto, she would've realized that if Nate was on the block he would surely save himself, not Ali. Basically, a bad game move. One I attribute to her developing feelings for Justin, and letting her negative feelings for Ali take over. She's human after all. I do agree with you that early in the game, many players failed to consider the POV and ASSUMED people wouldn't win it based on "odds." ps. I cannot believe the BB theme is STILL playing on the feeds. LOL! Black screens but dang if they aren't still pumping out that blasted music. Hahaha! |
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