Archive through September 12, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through September 12, 2003

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for your kind assistance, Wendo. Much appreciated.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I can't see the jury doing that either C1mag, not giving Ali the money because of what she said. (Well, except Dana.)

The thing about Jack is this. He said he didn't like emotional players in the game or how they played the game. And, he's under the assumption that Ali is an emotional player. However, I think he's in error in this assumption. Most of Ali's moves have not been emotional at all. Her nominating Dana (with Jun, which was smart) got out an enemy (as you said.) She also earned Justin's trust by not nominating him or his dream team buds. Thus, when he was HOH, she was safe. AND, they brought her in to their "club". She also won the competitions she knew she HAD to win.

It will be up to Ali to prove this to Jack, that she did play with a plan; not emotionally. I think she can, IMO.

edited to add: No problem Busydizzle! (Like that name, very creative.) :)

Csnog

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that most of the jury will take Ali's game playing into their decision. I don't really care which of the 2 win as they both played the game from the begining. Jun played it a little smoother and didn't seem to make as many enemies.

I just don't think Robert played this game well at all but that's for another thread.

C1mag

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The one thing that is gonna deflate and Ali attack on her character is what Ali says to that jury before they vote. She has made it clear to all those that have left that she thinks that she doesn't have a chance at winning because of hurt feelings. Then she is quick to say... No matter what I played this game hard. I broke up alliances, I won comptetions and I got myself to the end. It's just right out there and with people like Jack, Erika, Justin and Nate along with Rob sitting on that Jury they will nod their heads and say.. "you know she's right" She did it all. "Do we dock her because we aren't sitting next to her or do we reward her? But the reality is she controled the game and her own destiny."

There isn't some Roddy this year all bent on revenge or a pissed off Marcellus who got duped at the 12th hour to push for the hatred vote.

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
(Thanks, Wendo.)

Gosh, we're all going to drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out who's going to vote for who based on what. Personally, I can see Ali winning. It's the BB motto, after all. "Expect the Unexpected."

Speaking of which, I thought it was humorous (and true!) when Ali said "I AM the unexpected."

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Right C1mag. I agree.

You know, I'm curious. Do you think Jun's game has been more similar to Dani's? I think that's what you said. I have to agree. Ali's game really has been nothing like Dani's game at all. Interesting.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Busydizzle, I actually enjoy thinking of the final vote and "hashing out" the various possible scenarios. It's rather fun to see how accurate, or inaccurate, you are. LOL!

I thought that comment from Ali was humorous as well. Hee.

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Heh, I like it, too. But after a while my head starts spinning!!

Charvie

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
See in the beginning I could hang with Alison. She was determined and fierce. She never lied to others to get ahead, she just couldn't help but spread the word to everyone else. And than came Nathan and that fiasco. I still thought of her as ok. Than the diary rooms. I still made excuses. And than she started lying and player hating and becoming more and more her, and I couldn't stand it anymore. She went from this person I thought could get through this game with out lying and heavy bashing or using. To a no holds bar anything goes behavior. Even with the mime. Was that behavior really called for? It wasn't game playing it was ridiculous. And the sudden disdain for Erika because what, she played the game similar to her after all. I guess, I expect people to be like Jack and them and say that was a good game move. And she never takes what she has done in the game to get ahead into consideration. Lets say Erika did have a deal with Robert, what does that matter now? Lets say Erika did have a deal with all three of them, well didn't she? Why now after the "offenders" are gone is this a concern and reaffirms her belief in how wonderful she is and horrible the other person is? I understand what Jun and Robert are doing, they are playing on her weakness and using it to gaurentee themselves into the F2 if she should win. What is she doing?
But, all of that is neither here nor there. I just am not an Alison fan. But, my lack of respect for Alison does not keep me from understanding that if she wins she wins. I just would hate to see this type of behavior rewarded or repeated. I don't watch for the Alison, Marcelluses and so of the world. I watch for excellant stratedgy without taking the easy route and winning becuase that is what they do best. And I don't see Alison as being great at strategy. If she feels she gave Erika the game, why did she do it? In the second week, because she was going with the group, the other week because she didn't want to keep Jack and the HOH because she liked being a floater. That is one of the most annoying conversations, how she gave Erika the game and couldn't any longer. Ughh!

Ok I could go on forever. BUt it's pointless. and I'd start sounding like her. lol

C1mag

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jun did something that I do think will irritate the voters. She stirred up hatred amongst everyone. Jun created it as needed and Nate is aware of that. He couldn't stand that type of game. Jun played a little like Dani except she didn't keep a solid alliance up until recently. I know everyone thinks Alis words are cruel but I personally think Juns mental game of keeping hatred in the house was much more taxing mentally. Dani was a behind the scenes go with the flow player whereas Jun created the behind the scenes drama that kept her afloat. Similar in the behind the scenes approach but very different in keeping safe.

Kmjm

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Post deleted because the thread has moved so fast it no longer makes sense!

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You don't need to go on, Charvie. Beautiful job.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm blaming my behavior on Alison. <mod>

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ah, ok C1mag. I see. Good points.

Charvie, you said, "I guess, I expect people to be like Jack and them and say that was a good game move."

Well, there is one difference that needs to be considered when comparing a Jack with an Ali. Jack has years of life under his belt and a certain maturity that comes with age. (He's what, late 40's, early 50's.) Ali, however, is just out of college (only 23 I think.) She has had little to no life experience, has lived in a small suburb (outside of Pittsburgh), and was living a rather insular life in college. (I remember college, it was insular.) So, Ali lacks a great deal of the maturity that one gains as they age every year and gather life experience.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood, I don't think C1 is saying that Ali's behavior should be blamed on Jun and, thus, Ali's not responsible. Only that part of Jun's strategy was to keep a certain amount of hatred and tension in the house. To keep others "angry" at others rather than at her. Therefore, keeping herself from becoming a target. Only that this pot stirring created a climate of negativity.

C1mag

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Charvie LOL I liked what you wrote. I can almost understand Alis game play. It became the tempo of the house after about week 3. As far as back tracking and trashing on Erika understand that Erika had been feeding Ali a lot of B.S in regard to playing the game with her. Then she finds out that Erika did have intentions of losing her in the game and yet Ali was feeling bad about eliminating her. You'd do the same in this game. It's called letting off steam. As for the Mime all I can say is that it's environment at this point. You can't get away from anything and everything is magnified by 100. Ali obviously is high strung so since she can't get away from the moment she responds. I wish I could tell everyone that lets a game player on this show eat away at them to the point where they get angry to lighten up. We aren't living there. They aren't a part of our lives. We are out and about doing our thing and we aren't playing a game where paranoia will set in. I do feel like you that she is probably not a golden person but I think this is Ali times 100 in one of the worst situations to display it all real raw. She hasn't said the best things thats for sure but I get some of the anger. It's at times displaced and off the mark but at least she's letting some steam off.

Busydizzle

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo: Being a 21-year-old college student, I'm not offended but I don't necessarily agree with you. I've had plenty of life experience despite coming from a somewhat small city and being in college. And while I do think Ali lacks maturity, there are many people of all ages who lack maturity as well.

For example, two of my college professors recently got drunk on our choir tour bus when they were supposed to be supervising. The students were outraged and definitely handled the situation with more maturity than these two supposedly older and wiser men.

EDIT: I'm tired and not sure how well that example related to my point, but oh well. I really am going to sleep now, lol.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Busydizzle, you're right and I agree. I should clarify that some people just lack certain life experience and maturity; either due to youth, environment, etc. And, I would say Ali is one of them based on what I've seen of her in the house. (Can't say for sure though, just hypothosizing.) Additionally, it is a maturity issue, as you point out. Ali's young and has time to develop maturity. (Your two college professors on the other hand.....)

Good points, thanks.

Kmjm

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, Ali just called the mime a "stupid mute b*stard". Very nice.

Charvie

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1 I know where you are coming from in terms of Alison. And I was once coming from that place early in the game when I would talk to my mom about ALison and my mom would say I don't want to talk about that girl, she's crazy. lol I thought my mother was missing the finer points of Alison.

Now I realize she had a point. Alison is a self professed, pagent winner, dance team member, and former ice skater on national levels. You telling me she doesn't know how to deal with a large amount of stress or how to react when put on the spot? I too have danced on stage, been put in the spotlight and on the spot in situations when I was Alison's age and if I dared to react anywhere close to the way she behaved I would have been beheaded, forget disowned.
In terms of letting off steam, what upset her about Erika is that she discovered Erika was playing the game. Umm isn't that the point. Say you don't like her, say you think you couldn't beat her in the F2, but don't act innocent and naive. Also, the week before she was planning to evict Erika with Jun anyway. So ummm, didn't she "betray" Erika first? She got to do it, so what is the bitterness and anger about?
And finally in response to Wendo, Justin is Alison's age and he played a lot more maturely than she did, so ummm, I don't think age has anything to do with her behavior.
Truth be told, I want to like Alison, I think that she could offer a lot to the world, with her intelligence and competive nature, but she keeps letting me down. I live for the day that women can stop hating on each other. Robert can lie until the cows come home, speak of women in the most treachoruos ways and yet it was Erika that Jun and Alison was gunning for before they even got to the final 4. And Robert they believe about Erika.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kmjm, and Robert just called the mime a stupid pr*ck.

Kmjm

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, Wendo, that's nice too. They are all just wonderful people.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Charvie, see my 10:14pm post where I do agree with Busy that it's not age but, rather, a maturity issue.

You also said, "Truth be told, I want to like Alison, I think that she could offer a lot to the world, with her intelligence and competive nature, but she keeps letting me down."

I think this is where our individual perspectives of the game differs. I don't like or dislike Alison on the whole. I don't know her. There are aspects of her game I like; and other aspects I don't. Additionally, I don't let any of the HG's "let me down". I have no expectations of them. One, because I don't know them. Two, they don't affect my life in any way. Three, because it's only a tv show for me. Etc., the list goes on. I only want to see the game played with in it's boundaries and rules.

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kmjm, don't you just want to give the three of them a big ole hug!

Kmjm

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, all I have to say is- Ewwwwwwwwwww!