Archive through September 13, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Alison's Debate Thread (ARCHIVES): Archive through September 13, 2003

Wendo

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL! GROUP HUG WITH ALL THE HG'S!!!!! Hahahahaha!

Rhett

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I like the game better when there is someone I want to win, and I don't want any of these three to win. I wouldn't want to meet or talk to any one of the three. I think the first three BB were much better than this one and the people more interesting. Of the three I like Ali the least then Rob and I guess that leaves Jun as the one I would pick to win if it were up to me. Ali and Rob are to me the most boring, spoiled, and uninteresting people ever in the final three. It is true I don't know either of them and from what I have seen on the live feeds and TV, I wouldn't want to know them.

Caycaye

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And Rhett....You are RIGHT ON also. <Mod>

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Having followed this thread tonight, I just realized that the debate is not whether Ali is "good" or "evil" or even whether people like her actions or not.

It seems to me that we are looking at a higher order debate, which is the people who use game play as their means to choose a person to root for in the game versus people who use likeability or character as their determining factor.

Very interesting...

R151996

Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali's outbursts about the mime after the screening were mainly triggered because the mime messed with her personal belongings. If that was encouraged by any BB staffer they should be fired. If it wasn't encouraged but the mime did it on his own, he should be reprimanded. You don't mess with someone's personal items on Day 70 in that type of high-stress environment.

Other than Ali's outburst all three HGs were ripping the mime pretty equally about how he messed with the food, the kitchen, etc., after the screening ended. The mime may have been a good idea but it went a little overboard.

Ladyinbc

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If I was stuck with a mime in that situation I would be pretty irratated too.

I haven't read all the replies in this thread so I apologize if I am repeating.

I don't really care for Ali, there is something about her I just don't like. I don't really know if she is a good game player or not. She is still there though, so she is doing something right. Whether or not the jury thinks she is, we won't know unless she makes it to the final 2.

I do find that I seem to point out her flaws more than the others. She lies, backstabs and so do the others. I try hard not to judge these people by what I see on TV or what I read on the live feeds. Afterall it is a game and you have to manipulate people or lie to them. I don't see how you can play the game and not do it. I think most of them have. And the ones that didn't, but left sooner, who knows what they would have done the closer they got to the final 2.

I don't think most of these people are this way in realy life, not even Alison. She is definately driven and not afraid to go after what she wants. Most people in the house knows she doesn't keep her word, they should be faulted for trusting her. I think this is why she has stayed in the game for so long because people want to take her to the final 2. They figure she won't get enough votes because she has stabbed so many people in the back.

Tide

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 02:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just throwin' in my 2 cents. I think OnlyHuman hit it on head by defining the duality of this discussion.

I think Ali has played very competitively and has attained her goals quite well. On the other hand, within the game structure, she has exhibited a pronounced personality disorder.

I think many of us are turned-off by her personality. On an atavistic level, maybe we're even frightened by her. We instinctively know that civilization depends on a delicate balance between "I" and "We". And Ali seems to be sorely lacking in "We".

For myself, I find it unsettling to think that a large prize may be awarded for what appears to be anti-social behavior.

BTW In BB1, I was a Curtis fan from the start. In BB2, I rooted for Will from the beginning. And in BB3, I was pro Dani from Day 1. All of these played with subtlety and a sense of humor. This year my hopes left with Dave. This year's finals seem a little dull to me, since I have no horse in the race.

Nexell2

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 03:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali is not evil, she is a PLAYA with disturbing behavior, the most disturbing being causing people to go ape poopy! I can't believe this went on so late. She's gonna win - get over it.

Prisonerno6

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 04:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Y'all realize that if Ali were ever to see this thread, she'd just see the nearly 500 posts without ever reading them and say, "Ooooh, look at all the people talking about me, I must be really popular..."

Woodpecke®

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
She'd call us all "F-*&ing idiots".

Smokey

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Tide
Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 03:20 am

"I think many of us are turned-off by her personality. On an atavistic level, maybe we're even frightened by her. We instinctively know that civilization depends on a delicate balance between "I" and "We". And Ali seems to be sorely lacking in "We".

For myself, I find it unsettling to think that a large prize may be awarded for what appears to be anti-social behavior."


Tide--I think your post is one of the most intelligent posts in this thread.

I see the same things, and an even more interesting point is, my two daughters who are close to Ali's age (21 and 18) see her the same way. So I completely disagree that Ali's problem is her maturity level. But then again, you can get caught up in a definition of what maturity is. If it's a trait that allows you to be in a balanced place and perspective in life experiences, then this is something that is completely absent in Ali.

Is she playing the game hard? Yes. Is she clawing her way to the finish line, Yes. If this is the only criteria for winning BB, then she should win. In my opinion, it's more than that, otherwise why would they subject them to living, for all the world to observe, so that we can see their behavior in this situation? I think it's part of the game, too. It's seeing just how these people react in this stress filled situation and seeing who survives through it and how.

Some are going to say it's enough to win the way Ali may win this and she played a great game.

Some are going to see she worked hard to win, but be disappointed that people who seem to have an inability to be empathetic towards others (which is a trait of a sociopath) could win.

I fall in the second category.

Gen

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Smokey, I agree with you and Tide. Others have said that Allie is smart. She is smart in a conniving, manipulative way, but she is not intelligently smart. She is unable to see both sides, only her side. I wonder how her fellow pageant contestants view her. I bet she never won a "Miss Congeniality" title.

Gina8642

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Most mimes I've ever seen seem to to go out of their way to annoy people. They especially like to pick on the one person in the crowd who is most irritated by the mime - so this mime was just doing what mimes usually do. Alison made herself an easy target by getting so upset at the mime.

BTW - I totally missed both mime visits, I've only read about them but I did personally listen to Ali's reaction after the movie. She was screaming sooo loud her voice was quitting on her. Like when you've been shouting so much you start to get laryngitis. I definately thought this was a bit of an over reaction. Yes, some mimes are annoying - but so much so you have to scream at the top of your lungs because your stuffed animals were moved? Jun did an excellent job of humoring the mime and keeping him on her good side. Jee was right - Jun is a very smart girl. LOL


2nd BTW - has she found her stuffed cat yet?

Lori

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Big Brother is entertainment.

People certainly can debate the behavior of the houseguests.

I guess the bottom line for me is my question "What if Ali were my daughter...would I be proud of her?" God no...I'd deny we were related. Just bad behavior by her all around...and she's not the only HG I feel this way about...but I find her behavior particularily repulsive!

Gina8642

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lori - are you seriously saying that if your children did something you didn't like - you would pretend you didn't know them? Now that is sad! I don't have children, but if I did, I would try to guide them to do the right thing in life, but if they didn't, I would still love them. Under no circumstances would I deny that I knew them or loved them. That is cold beyond anything I can imagine.

Moderator

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Once again..many, many posts have had to be edited and removed from this thread because the discussion turned into a poster-debate where people resorted to attacking and defending themselves. There are only 11 days left in the BB season...please lighten up a bit and try to enjoy the last week of the show.

If you feel you are being attacked anywhere on the board, do not join in the conversation as that is only going to serve to escalate the situation and result in you being included in the problem and whatever subsequent consequences enforced. Please email us at the link at the top of the page that is clearly marked "CONTACT US".

Thank you and enjoy the last 11 days.
TVCH Mods

Avrey258

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe that's why Jun's parents didn't want to be a part of the show. I remember Jun saying her parents weren't thrilled with her being on this show. Her brother did participate in a segment though.

I wonder what Alison's parents are thinking? It has got to be tough for them reading and watching all this. Imagine them going about town right now and having to go to work. That must not be easy.

Mkcantjump

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Alison parents are thinking "good, now Ali can pay her own tuition to law school" duh

Woodpecke®

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If Alison gets in law school, I'll wear her short shorts and parade around her house in a tiara and a pair of skates while wearing a T-shirt that says: "Alison is Dainty, F***er!".

Wendo

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry Mod!!! Thanks for the reminder, much appreciated.

Re: Ali and the comments of her having a personality disorder within the game. Give me a break. No qualified psychiatrist would even examine and diagnose a person within this game structure for a personality disorder. The enviornment and stress levels are to unbalanced.

Further, so she has no empathy toward others within the game. It's not a requirment or a rule that must be followed. Frankly, when I played in team sports in school, I didn't have empathy for my opponents while the game was going on; I wanted to win.

I think Onlyhuman's observations are entirely accurate. However, I would go further by saying that those that have expressed strong objections to Ali not only are judging her on her character, but also because she doesn't fit some "mold" they feel she should fit. JMO.

Hamsterlady

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
500! :)

Woodpecke®

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
That Hamsterlady is always lurking. Maybe she can rub salve on my sore nipple.

Hamsterlady

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood, I don't have any salve on hand. Will crunchy peanut butter do? LOL

Wendo

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
*pats the chair next to her*

C'mere Wood, I'll fix ya right up.

Woodpecke®

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Crunchy Peanut Butter? Yikes. I like Wendo's calm yet sensual demeanor. Much more enticing. She made it bleed though. Strong fingers.