Archive through September 05, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Is it really Donnie who says he's through with Ali?: Archive through September 05, 2003

Lurknomore

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 12:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok I can't resist a couple comments.

First, I write professionally--something I'm sure is NOT evident in my posts cause I write em for fun not work. That said, if I were really Donny and was gonna post something that I knew was putting my one statement out there to the BB fan community I would at least run spell check, and probably get opinions from a few friends.

As for the jock thing, as someone who once upon a time worked in pro hockey for many years, I don't buy into the dumb jock myth. There are many smart athletic people.

I have no clue if it is or isn't him but there is one thing I found most interesting. I'll go from memory but it had to do when he said how he hopes if she doesn't win then she's ok with her actions. If she (perish the thought) wins, then that would make her actions ok????? Not in my book.

Him or not him, I feel bad for the guy. He seemed nice enough and was treated like a fool on national TV as Ali bed-hopped. From what I've seen he deserves MUCH better and maybe he has learned that!

Boberg

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 12:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bohawkins..What?
Outlawout..I did understand what you were saying and I think one of your points was that the hearer should be able to understand what the talker is saying.

Bohawkins

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 12:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Boberg...that was just humor. Perhaps only an English prof like Outlawout (and for whom it was intended) would understand and get a laugh out of it.

Steveh

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 03:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cagri -

Bloomsburg certainly does not give athletic scholarships. According to NCAA bylaws, Div III schools are not permitted to give athletic scholarships for any sport.

Also, I'm puzzled. Where in my post did I imply that Bloomsburg was academically inferior to Pitt? I merely mentioned that when it comes to football, Pitt and Bloomsburg are worlds apart with the former's team having probably having at least 75 full scholarship players on its roster, frequent national television exposure, frequent bowl game appearances and quite a few of its players moving on to the pros while the latter has no scholarship players, no TV exposure, very little chance for post-season play and no pipeline to the NFL. The reason I made this reference is b/c early in the show I recall Alison making at least a few references to Donnie wanting a pro football career.

Steveh

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 03:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Outlawout - as a fellow college English teacher, allow me to thank you for the quick tyranny-of-grammar tutorial which I agree w/ 100%.

I'd just add that "Donnie's" email is an EMAIL, not an essay assignment, etc. Good grammar and good spelling does not necessarily = good writing.

When I post in forums like this my contributions are usually loaded with spelling and punctuation errors and various and sundry unconventional grammar usages.

Yawn.

Beruthiel

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 07:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Since the purpose of language is commmunication, good grammar and spelling would seem to have some value, in that both are essential in contributing to the success of the final result - making one's meaning more easily and clearly understood.
Since everyone has a unique idiolect, and we exist in a multicultural and geographically widespread society, of course there are many 'grammars' but if a society fails to agree on a basic method of communication, then the result would be akin to the chaos of the mythical Tower of Babel.
Language is never static, and evolves in the same way that organisms do, but it happens over time, and changes spread from an original source throughout society. To deny the value of the rules of a language is to deny its users the satisfaction and pleasure that real communication achieves, and also, denies them the possibility of achieving enough skill in expressing their ideas so as to create beauty, and experience transcendance of thought.
I'm reminded of the study which found that nuns who had poor language skills in youth were more likely to show early deterioration of brain function as they aged.
I would consider it my failure if I did not exert myself to the best of my ability in teaching young students that they can not only improve their communication skills, and social interaction, but also their personal fulfillment, by learning how to use their language to the best of their abilities.

But that's just my humble opinion.

Crossfire

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 07:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Use it or lose it. :)

Puzzled

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 07:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali has said that Donnie cheated on her--I think she said 5 times. If that's true, then I think he's being a hypocrite and should stop whining.

Schoolmarm

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 08:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, I rarely post in the BB threads, but there's some incorrect information floating around on the posts here and I thought that I would clear some things up. I teach at one of the sister Universities to Bloomsburg, where Donny plays football and is listed on the roster as a Sophomore.

First, Bloomsburg is a NCAA Division II school for football, as is the university where I teach. Student athletes ARE allowed financial aid including scholarships that are based on athletics.

Second, the game with New Haven was played on August 30 and Bloomsburg won 30-17.

Third, the English grammar and spelling in the "Donny post" is VERY much like the grammar and spelling of MANY rural Pennsylvania high school graduates. Donny's hometown, like many towns in Pennsylvania, is a blue collar town with a sagging economy.

Fourth, Bloomsburg and the other thirteen State System Universities are "open access" universities and admit nearly all applicants from Pennsylvania. The quality of our students ranges from genius to "I barely finished high school." This is partially due to the lack of a community college system in the commonwealth. There are only five community colleges in the commonwealth. Two are near Pittsburgh and the others are near Philadelphia, I think.

Fifth, do not under-estimate the potential of the smaller state universities. My university just sent a graduate to the NFL. We also have graduates working on Broadway, another as a Vice President of MTV, and of course the famous wrestler and olympian Kurt Angle. Although I am not as familiar with Bloomsburg since it is at the other end of the commonwealth, I'm sure that it is quite like my University, as they are close in size and demographics.

Sixth....I am a lousy speller and sometimes I type too fast and let typos go....most of the student email I receive are full of typos, abbreviations, and grammatical errors. We have MANY students graduating nowadays who do not know how to put nouns and verbs together correctly. It's sad, but true.

Busydizzle

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 08:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Schoolmarm, thanks so much for all of the information! : )

Closetfan

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 10:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you, Schoolmarm!! :-)

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 10:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Your fifth and sixth points certainly contradict each other. I will continue to underestimate the potential of all universities. Truely embarrassing. Ha!

Bohawkins

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 10:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecker - that was very funny with the deliberate misspelling of the word truly. It certainly brought home the point you were making.

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
<<<Poster named Donny posted:
As her boyfriend (before she went on the show) and now X-Boyfriend, I can vouge that it will not be much. If she doesn't win the grand prize, all i can do is have pitty for the type of person that she has portrayed herself as. Im truely embarrassed to say that I ever fell in love with a person like her, and have completely re-evaluated my standards for future relationships. Hopefully her own family can forgive her for the image that she has given to their family name.>>>

I wanted to move this gem over to this page because I'm hoping this isn't the work of a college student. After careful examination, I've decided that it isn't Donnie's letter. No way. It most certainly is a phony.

Busydizzle

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Dude, you don't have to have impeccable language skills to get into college. College students run the gamut from genius to brain-dead stoner. Also, colleges run the gamut from Harvard to Joe Shmoe Community College. There are hundreds of thousands of college students. To think that they all have superb command of the English language is laughable.

(BTW, I'm proud to attend Ohio University where I hope I'm somewhat closer to the genius end than the stoner end.) : )

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I loved seeing the word "superb" in your post.

Busydizzle

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"I loved seeing the word "superb" in your post."

Why?

Woodpecke®

Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I never said that superb command of the English language was required to attend college. I do think that rudimentary skills of grammar and the ability to spell fourth grade vocabulary words should be mandatory.

Freddy

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 12:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Dood, I was gonna go to collage but when da told me I had to go matriculate in the auditorium, I ran away as fast as my big ole feet could carry me.

Busydizzle

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 12:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, 1) it isn't always mandatory (unfortunately), 2) there were probably some typos, 3) he could have been in a hurry, 4) it isn't that bad compared to many internet correspondences I've read. Basically, I'm just saying that you can't tell who's in college and who's not from a post on the internet. Many people don't even bother to type correctly since it's such an informal form of communication.

Schoolmarm

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 04:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
About the preparation of college students....most univerisities accept students that are under-prepared for a university curriculum in some way or another. And THANK GOODNESS! In America, most any high school grad has the opportunity for a higher education. In Europe, university education and finishing high school, is hinged on examinations that are taken at about grade 7 or 8. Many students are sent to trade school with no opportunity to graduate from a high school or to attend university. Even though I always want to teach prepared students, I always have student s who are not prepared in some way or another. I need to get them caught up. Some of the success stories I shared were from unprepared students who found themselves in college and let their wings fly so they could soar like eagles.

Many of our young people do not learn much in high school or even elementary school. I am in teacher training and I am shocked at what I see in many of the schools, in many states. (I would give my eyeteeth to move back to Iowa, where the schools are very good all around.) Every semester, I get on the soapbox and preach at the teacher candidates that bad teaching stops with their class, that they MUST be responsible for their student's learning.

The ability to spell correctly, Woodpecker, is NOT an indicator of how well-read or educated or intelligent you are. I challenge anyone on this board to match my personal library of accademic books in English, German and other languages. I admit that I am a terrible speller (in English, German and other languages), and it is probably because spelling was not taught very well at my otherwise excellent elementary school. I didn't think that spelling was that important to learn and found other subjects much more interesting. Spelling appeals to people who have a particular learning style....linear learners who seek one correct answer. This is opposite of all creative learning styles, thus the use of creative spelling!

I think that the "Donny post" could certainly have come from him....or maybe one of his friends. The language use is much like a college sophomore from Donny's hometown.

I think making fun of people's spelling and grammar is in "bad form." They could just be a lousy typist!

Prisonerno6

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"This is partially due to the lack of a community college system in the commonwealth. There are only five community colleges in the commonwealth. Two are near Pittsburgh and the others are near Philadelphia, I think."

There are fourteen community colleges in Pennsylvania, including one in northeast PA, a little over an hour from Bloomsburg. Bloom is one of its top five transfer schools (along with Penn State, and some local private colleges). That doesn't count the technical and trade schools out there either. Honestly, as a community college faculty member, I find it very disappointing that someone who teaches at one of the state schools knows so little about the CC system in PA. With the rising cost of tuition at the state schools, more and more students are turning to community colleges for their gen ed coursework, especially in this economy.

But then, I didn't realize the PSSHE schools were open access, either. The community colleges are, admitting anyone but often requiring them to pass placement tests or developmental courses before being placed into academic courses. Penn State, of course, isn't, but neither is it part of the state system.

As to whether or not the writing in the alleged Donny note is typical of college sophomores, heck, it's typical of some college professors I've had...

Prisonerno6

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"The ability to spell correctly, Woodpecker, is NOT an indicator of how well-read or educated or intelligent you are."

Actually, from an educational psychology point of view, it often is. It isn't a matter of linear thinking, it's a matter of seeing words spelled properly and recognizing them as such, and the more well-read one is, the more likely one is to recognize properly spelled words and correctly used grammar. Standard spelling and grammar evolved as a way to make reading easier, since higher level reading comprehension skills are dependent on the automaticity of basic skills like word recognition. In other words, if you have to use brain power to try to figure out what a misspelled word really is, you have less brain power left to figure out what it means in context. When you have multiple spelling and grammatical errors in your text, the meaning is often lost as people focus on the words themselves, not the whole meaning.

(I'll stop now or I'll start in on a psychology of reading lecture...)

Kaili

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
<sd>

That post isn't an indicator of anything, and it sure when he wrote it I'm sure he didn't expect it would be examined as an essay to be critiqued!

Think about it this way- if someone posted here on this board and did so sloppily- well enough to be understood but more in the IM style people use- would that poster be torn apart on this board? Would his/her comments be worth less because they weren't run through spellcheck?

Cagri

Friday, September 05, 2003 - 06:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for clearing up the rumors regarding BloomU Schoolmarm. I mistakenly posted that they were division III. As a former scholarship student in athletics at sister university Mansfield, I thank you for clearing up the misconceptions regarding state schoools.

Thanks! :)