Questions Unanswered
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Questions Unanswered

Nonconformist

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
During their roundtable discussion before they voted, Jack, Erika and Robert all were saying that Jun did not deserve to win. Jack even said during that discussion that Ali played a better game and then said the exact same thing about Jun during the voting. huh?

So why did they vote for her? My suspicious side of me thinks that they were able to vote after they saw the tapes. What other explanation could there be?

Also, why did it seem like Dave and Amanda were not speaking. They sat at opposite ends of the room and seemed to try to avoid each other. I thought that they had been keeping in contact with each other.

Why did Erika say that she was voting for the person who voted her out, but then voted for Jun?

Katlady53

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm wondering if Dave and Amanda were hot and heavy for a while after leaving the house, but maybe one of them failed to keep the communication going.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I thought she said she said she would'nt vote for the person who voted her out, but maybe I didn't hear clearly.

Sweetpea1994

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Erika was being sarcastic with Ali, she said before she left the house that she would give her vote to the person who voted her out. I think she was in fact showing Ali how it feels to have someone tell you one thing and do another.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The first round table was before the questioning.. I think the answers they got from Ali and Jun is what turned the tide.
And in my opinion the answer that won the game for Jun was when she explained her game play and commented that she had not used her body to get ahead but instead used her brains.

Eliz87

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm under the impression that Dave & Amanda are trying to avoid being "the couple from Big Brother." They are both independent and have no need to cling to each other like Krista & Boogie did, or Will & Shannon. These "couples" were just doing it for the "media attention" anyway. Dave & Amanda did what they did and it's over. They are adults and conduct themselves as such. (Besides, they were upsetting Michelle! hehe)

I am also very impressed with the way Dana & Justin are handling their relationship. They don't act like it's a forever romance or anything. They're both very level-headed and mature about it. Wonderful.

Charvie

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The reason they showed the why they though Alison should win is Big Brother is famous for that ploy. First, they ask Why do you think so and so should win, than ask why do you think so and so should not win, and than edit away. So as to look as they didn't have a reason why they thought Jun should win. They just didn't show the answers. The give away is when the hgs answer the question they start the sentence with, "the reason why I think so and so shouldn't win is because..."

Spunky

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It cannot be proved that the keys were not changed after they watched the DR entries. It's very possible that some of them had a change of heart and gave their vote to Jun.
Unless the hgs reveal that they're bound to secrecy for two years.
I cannot believe that they orchestrated with BB producers their reactions to the Q&A session. It was clearly to mislead the viewers as to the final vote.

Chippy

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The jury voted before they saw the tapes. Are you saying some changed their vote afterwards and BB let them? I don't see that happening.

Gina8642

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Nonconformist - It's an editing thing. They do it every year to create suspense. Each jury member is asked something to the effect of:

-Please tell us the reason's Jun should win?

-Please tell us the reason's Alison should win?

-Please tell us the reason's Jun should NOT win?

-Please tell us the reason's Alison should NOT win?

So even a player not voting for Alison will have stated a reason or reasons why she should win. After the qeustioning and the vote is completed the editors sit down already knowing who won (they saw who place what key into the box). They splice all the negative comments about the winner and all the positive comments about the losers into the final show. For the exact reason that they want to throw off viewers on who will win. The problem is, BB always uses the exact same editing techniques - they NEVER change it up.

Therefor a knowing viewer can always tell who goes (or wins) because it is the opposite of the editing.

Confused? LOL

My unansered question - who was lying about Robert's job? Erika said he was unemployed because he was fired. Robert said he worked as the manager in the restaurant accorss the street from Erika's work.

Csnog

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
First there is editing. AS shows us what he wants us to see. We may not have been shown why they should not vote for Ali.

They voted "BEFORE" seeing the tapes but after the first roundtable discussion and the questions.

They watched the tapes alone not together.

David and Amanda live in different city's and it just sort of happened.

There was another discussion after viewing the tapes.

At one time Erika said she would vote for the person who got her out of the house but she thought Ali was her little sister. When Erika entered the jury house she asked the jury if they wanted to see the knife in her back. Ali stabbed her in the back but didn't have an option because Jun was also up.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spunky the whole point of the jury house was so the DR interviews would not effect the voting.
Why would they change the votes? This is one conspiracy this year that i'm not buying.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't agree, Spunky. Why would BB go to so much trouble and expense of sequestering the voters to prevent them letting the DR comments affect their vote, if they were simply going to let voters change their vote after seeing the tapes? For appearances sake? Seems like overkill if that were the case.

If they really had been allowed to change their vote, I truly don't think Nathan would have voted for Alison after he saw her "I think he's gay" comment.

Watching2

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Apparently Robert was lying since I noticed later on , Julie Chen referred to him as the "former" restuarant manager.

Gina8642

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Obviously some people type WAY faster than me. LOL

Spunky

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
And you really believe they didn't??? Unless I see it with my own eyes I will never believe it.
It clearly looked as Ali could have had more votes... (okay, I was convinced it was going to be a 4-3 for Jun) but the 6-1 was rigged in my view.

Nonconformist

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina, I understand the editing and asking questions in the diary room. But this was during their discussion with each other. It appeared that Erika, Jack and Robert were not in agreement with the others as to whether Jun or Ali should win. A couple of different times specifically Jack and Erika disagreed with Dana saying that Ali should win and not Jun. I'll have to watch it again to see what the editing looks like, maybe they cut it in such a way to completely fabricate that discussion. Who knows?

Chippy

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What's a "former retail manager"?

Anyone notice Robert wasn't near as fidgety last night? As much fun as was made of him for his "nose-picking" and such, I really think that's what he does in response to stress. Jun ate, Ali grew pimples and ate, Erika didn't eat, etc. Robert picked.

Csnog

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Go back and look at the clothes they (the jury) were wearing. Dana had the same dress on at the first roundtale discussion AND the voting key.

Dana had on a different outfit on during the second roundtable discussion.

Dana had on yet a third outfit for the live show.

Go look at Hampsterladys snaps from the show.

EDITING!

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Also the comments by Erika, Jack and Robert were prior to the question of Ali and Jun.

(and i'm still saying the turning point was Jun saying she didn't have to kiss,sleep or use other powers to get to the end, that she used her brain)

Surreal_Badger

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just want to reiterate and expand on what Gina8642 said above... Throughout the show, hg's are interviewed by BB staff, who ask them certain questions and push for certain answers. For example, hg's are asked to leave parting messages for ALL those nominated for eviction (but only one is broadcast), much like the jury members were asked for thoughts on BOTH jun and ali's chances of winning (but only certain responses were broadcast). After bb accumulate all this various footage, the show is pieced together to tell the particular "story" producers want -- or need -- to tell. Each week (unless there is a "live" vote), bb KNOWS who is evicted (or in the cast of last night, KNOWS who's won) and is create a show that lures/forces viewers until waiting for the last 10 minutes to find out who's leaving.

And it does indeed seem that the ol' bait-and-switch is used weekly. Ho hum.

Pixieduster

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why did they, again, show multiple scenes of Erika making the comment about Jee. Jeez! Yet, again, no scenes of Ali or Jun making their comments. I'm surprised they didn't show Robert again with the B, S & W's comment.

I accept that the worst of the Jun's and Ali's comments came in the last couple of weeks, but the show was so blatantly aimed at negatively impacting Erika's image more so than anyone else. I'm not excusing her at all. She did make the comment and it was uncalled for.

It was the HG's who had the last shots at Jun and Ali, but I think it was in poor taste for Shapiro and Co. to blast Erika one last time in that fashion. Jee himself had made some not so special comments, but he was allowed to come off as holier than thou by forgiving her. Granted, we don't get to see everything that was said, but my question still is, why does it have to be this way?

Wish I could sprinkle a little Pixie Dust on Shapiro et al.

Spyder

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina8642 nailed it. I was trying to explain this to someone last night. As soon as I saw the way BB edited it, I knew the outcome. The clips they air are always a "red herring"

Here's my question-- when they came back from jury questioning, Ali mentioned that it was obvious Dana still hated her, but we didn't see any harsh questions from Dana. Or did we, and I am going crazy?

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Excuse me but Jee did say he forgave her.

I would imagine with only an hour tptb hit on the topics that were the big discussion makers around the watercoolers/on the internet.
Erika's comment, the buzzard crotch, dave and amanda having sex, lying to michelle all of these were hot topics. (roberts comments had already been addressed by the show and the internet chat.)
And they showed the things that had the greatest responses from the HG.

Sanfranjoshfan

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Didn't more than one of the jury members start out a sentence with this exact beginning?: "I think so and so should win because...."? That makes it seem obvious to me that they were answering a question that began: "Why do you think so and so should win?"

It was all in the editing of the round table discussion. It would have been interesting to see the entire thing (it probably lasted a few hours or more in its entirity) but all we saw were the few snippets that made it appear that the jury was leaning towards an Ali win.

If you'll remember, they did this *each week* with the evictions. Each week, they would air clips of each HG saying something that made it appear that one nominee was going to be evicted....and then when his or her vote was actually cast, that HG voted for the *other* nominee.

Ah...the magic of television!

Guinevere

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Regarding Erika's comment when she pulled her key, I thought she misspoke. I suppose she might have been making some point to Alison, but I just thought she meant to say that she wouldn't vote for the person who kicked her out, and she misspoke herself (probably nervous).

Pixieduster, I think that the comments about Elena were just too hot for BB to handle. In the past, they've avoided certain subjects (I mean, Scott just disappeared, in the BB world, and they never referenced his VD at all). I don't think it's from a desire to make one HG look bad - aside from the Elena comments, they made Alison and Jun look bad enough (or rather, allowed them to do it to themselves).

I do think BB sometimes edits people favorably (Krista, Robert - both got favorable editing up to a point). But I don't think they can really make someone look worse than they are because they are only using what that person actually said (like in Erika's case). I realize some people think it's unfair that Erika's and Robert's comments got aired and Jun and Alison's didn't, but BB, like life itself, just isn't fair.

Gina8642

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Nonconformist - also consider that some people (myself included) love to play the devil's advocate. Whenever anyone everyone is running willy nilly in one direction with their comments, it's a great time to balance the argument with a statement supporting the other side. It doesn't mean a person really supports that opposing view, but it often clarifies an argument or forces people to see what they are saying.

I still say much of it was editing. But I could see Erika playing devil's advocate too.

Re Dana - I didn't see any 'hate' in her questions either. Maybe slightly bitter(?), but that was in facial expression which Ali/Jun couldn't see. So, IMO, either is was editing, or Alison is soo paranoid that she interpreted Dana's comments as meaning she still hates Alison.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina- that was something i wondered about last night, after the questioning the short look we had at Ali and jun Ali was concerned about Dana believing her answer but when Dana asked her question i found it rather begnin.

Prism72

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I wanted to second Pixieduster's comments regarding Erika's comments about Jee. I also wondered why she was being called out about racist comments, yet she wasn't the only person in the house who had done so. Perhaps because she was the only one whose comments were actually edited into the show?

And I'm struggling trying to remember something here ... Didn't Erika and Jee have a conversation at some point where he told her to say something like that in the DR or something like that? I can't remember the order of events, so if anyone could refresh my memory, I would appreciate it. :)

Spear

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree, it's all in the editing. That's what's so frustrating about it -- they try so hard to surprise you that you don't get a good idea of why the jury members voted that way.

Joesmom

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Prism,
Yes, I seem to recall from the live feed posts that Jee said to her..."You'll probably call me a ...." (pretty much what she said) I wonder why she wouldn't say that to him last night. Or maybe she did and it was edited...

Coffee

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 01:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree they ask the jury the questions why and why not and put on what they want to. The votes were before watching the tapes. The votes would not have been changed after. I don't think they would have even seen the box again until last night when they carried it in the house. I am sure if votes were changed it would have been 7-0 for Jun then because I think after watching the tapes Nathan would have changed his vote for ali.