Archive through September 17, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Such lovely women left in the house (:P not)!: Archive through September 17, 2003

Cliotheleo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't care what they say as long as they STOP WHISPERING!!!!

Seriously, I do care.

C1mag

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that this group has been so damn harsh this year. The good part about all of this is it can't get much worse so next year will be an improvement.

If they would allow the entire sequestered back in the house to live with the final 2 it could make the finish line worth watching.

Meggieprice

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1- I am PRAYING for that ever since you suggested it! That would save the end for me- they couldn't bash everyone as it would be really hard to get away from them and plus they would be playing for their lives!

I can't imagine a week now of the two of them...that is really why I gripe- I wish it was different (if wishes were horses...) Bring back the jury!

Earthmother

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I continue to watch for the same reason I continue to watch innocent people in other countries being blown away on CNN..hopeful I guess that some form of human decency might prevail and I'd like to see it...

I can see your point though because if everyone who is offended quit watching then they would quit posting, therefore you would always be right..I personally would find that boring, but to each his own.

Wendo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Earthmother, thanks for answering my question. I was asking because I genuinely was interested in knowing.

I don't expect nor want to be right. Nor do I even purport myself to be right. I'm only asking questions to understand people's points of view. Why they watch, why they decide not to watch, what is the line that needs to be crossed, etc. And, also, to deabte here with everyone else.

I don't know why you think I feel I have to be right, because I don't. Hope that clarifies.


Meggie, thanks to you, too, for answering. Much appreciated. (And like C1, you know I adore you as well.) In the end, I look at BB4 as a bad season one would find in a show like Friends. Parts of it were good, other parts weren't. Not as good as Season 3, etc. But hey, season 5 will be here in no time. LOL!

Queenfish

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I am sorry but I just don't understand how what Robert has said about the girls in the game and what Jun and Ali said about a child can be compared. What Jun and Ali did is just unacceptable and they should be called out for it. Robert's comments were about grown people but for those so called women to make such remarks about a child is outrageous. I , as a mother, would allready be knocking on the door to that house or at least AS's office door, demanding a public apology. We are talking about grown ups verbally assaulting a child. To me, that can never be justified in any way. I think Ali and Jun should be called on it during the live show, after Robert has left the house of course because he will blow up when he hears that. I also think the sequesterd hg should have been able to follow the game. That is just my two cents worth and I am allowed to have my two cents as are all of you.

Meggieprice

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You are welcome Wendo (adoration right back at ya) - I also think Earthmother hit it for me whan she said you keep listening because you somehow hope it might change- same thing I said but different.

I actually think you are lucky to be able to separate your emotions from the game so successfully- I have never been able to do that so I get hurt, upset, sad, you know the emotional drill!
That is why it is not so easy to just have it be a debate without letting feelings into it for me and others like me. This year the emotionally driven viewer has been severely put to the test, lol!

Spike763

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Remember from DAY 1, these two have been verbally abusing other houseguests indirectly. Jun on the very first BB4 show stated she didn't like Erika and her fake boobs. Ali joined right in.
Basically it comes down to the fact that Jun and Ali suffer from Narcisism <sp. They believe that anything they do, say, believe is the only way. That they are the most beautiful, the greatest, and everyone else is inferior. So, they feel they have the right to cut down all others and are extremely upset if someone says something against them.

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Queenfish - Robert has called all women these names, not just Jun & Ali.

Cricket

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, I've read through all the posts in this thread. I found Nexell2's to be interesting about "wait until next summer." Nexell said Arnold likes it when the live feeds are edgy.

About a month ago Jun mentioned that she refused to trash Erika in the DR, so they asked her to leave. I thought that was odd.

Does anyone think that Ali and/or Jun are being told what to say, ie., being told to stir things up? I'm just curious.

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali has said several times that the DR tells her what to say and she repeats it. I think Jun said something similar lately. Many have said the DR really tries to get a HG to rip on the other HGs. Many have said the DR likes to try to play with their heads. HGs that start to give up have said they were given pep talks in the DR - that they need to go out fighting (Nathan this year, Josh last year instantly pop to mind).

So, yes, the DR orcastrates much of what is said in the DR and also 'stirs up sh!t' to quote Erika.

Surreal_Badger

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
cricket, in response to your question, i DO think that the type of talk jun and ali are spouting IS encouraged by producers. i think all the hgs are pumped with certain incendiary remarks by the BB staff -- their DR comments indicate to me at least that they are being prompted to say certain things and by extension given certain information to take from the DR into the house at large.

by no means do i wish to condone anything jun may have said lately, but i do think that she is in part "performing" this nasty attitude. i think she might see trashing robert raises her in ali's esteem (and of course lowers him as well); i also think she is talking to ali the way she thinks ali typically thinks/talks. in the DR, jun seems to be quite a different person. perhaps she views those in the DR (and MAYBE by extension, the tv viewing audience) as being more intelligent than ali?!

just a thought. . .

Cricket

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for responding Gina and Surreal. You have a point there, Surreal. Jun is different in the DR. There does seem to be a bone of contention in the house right now as to who is smarter, Jun or Ali.

It will be very interesting to see who wins HOH tonight and how that will affect the 'tone' of the house.

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Ali, Jun, & Robert are all 'acting' a great deal of the time.

Robert has his 'yes' routine. He agrees with absolutely everything said to him. He always affirms a persons opinions or life choices. He isn't being honest here - because he often directly contradicts what he told someone else 5 minutes before.

Jun also does some of the 'yes' routine - similar to Roberts. She also passes along nearly every piece of information ever giving to her. The twist is she twists that information to make everyone look bad. I've really never seen her outright lie, but by the time she is done twisting - you might as well call it a lie. She pretends to be everyone's confidant. She often pretends to be upset or offended by stuff she hears and she passes it along in such a way to stir up the passions of the person she is telling the info to. (Something I saw my least favorite office gossip doing on an hourly basis.)

Ali - yikes! I think folks have covered her pretty well. She frequently lies. She always acts like she is completely 100% on the side of the person she's with. To affirm that, she bashes whomever is not in the room. That bashing includes anything she can think of - lies, racial epithets, threats of violences, accusations of child molestation, absolutely anything. Unlike Jun, this info often does not contain even a kernel of truth to it. Ali also pretends to be 'upset' a lot. She pretends to be angry at other people so the person she is standing next to will think she's on their side. During these pretend 'angry at so and so' sessions, she will also throw around all sorts of threats and bashes - personally I don't think she really means them, but nor do I think she cares if her words hurt someone. Ali also pretends to be emotionally hurt by situations and frequently uses tears. Again, this is simply to manipulate the person sitting next to her. Again - what comes out of her mouth to reinforce that is usually made up.

So anyway - Jun and Ali feed off one another. Jun bashes and twists stuff she knows about Robert as she conveys it to Alison. Ali runs with that is starts being pretend angry or upset at Robert and starts spewing even more negative stuff. Jun thinks she's really got Ali going and spews more. Etc, etc, etc. I think more than half of both of their 'anger' and 'outrage' at Robert is completely fabricated.

Is any of it excusable? No, of course not. But - Do I take any of it to heart? No, not at all. I don't believe anything that comes out of their mouths and I wonder why folks even bother to be upset about it.

Carrie92

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think the DR tells them what to say. I think they just try to get them to open up more. (tell us how you REALLY feel about this HG)

Also, earlier it was suggested that Ali and Jun's comments about Elena weren't necessarily directed at Elena, but at Robert. I disagree.
They have made it clear that they think the only reason he is winning America's choice is because he has a daughter and is a single father. Which may or may not be true. I personally wanted Erika to get the letter and phone call, and wanted Jun to get the live chat.

Bunyun

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I see none of them "deserving" of the money. There for, I say kick em all out, and give the money to charity.

Nexell2

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cricket, I simply ment that Arni is not interested in changing the type of house guest he prefers in the house, nor do I think he intends to apologize to America for this season. It was his best BB year to date. Call it the Howard Stern principle if you will. Howard is outrageous and rarely if ever apoligizes to anyone, yet remains successful. He is fined by the FCC every now and then but his producers long ago factored in the "outraged listener" factor and know Howard will cost them money at some point. It is even part of his contract that the producers agree to be responsible for any court costs, not Howard. Few people, I assume, on this board would listen to Stern's show on a daily basis yet these same people continue to tune in Big Brother. Does Howard Stern care what you think? No. Does Arnie? No. Do the house guests care? If they did they would not be picked for the show. This is and always has been about ratings and Big Brother's are just fine. The house guests next year will not be the people next door so the viewer might take that into consideration before investing a great amount of time watching.

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Another DR thing. HGs past and present have clearly stated the DR asks them - tell me some positive things about X - now, tell me some negative things about X. Even if it was someone you loved and admired (say your best friend), you can still find some negatives. Then all BB needs to do is air the one negative thing a HG said in a 30 minute interview. Simple editing - don't fall for it. LOL

Gina8642

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Nexell - I completely agree!

Maris

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I dont want to watch the people next door. I just want people with a little intelligence who have also had some experience of the world. I dont have a problem with twenty somethings, but twenty somethings who have never left the farm or Pittsburgh?

Auntiemike

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Anybody remember the words that came out of Eddie's mouth, on a regular basis, on BB1??? He wasn't very exemplory either.

Wendo

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 06:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggieprice said, "I also think Earthmother hit it for me whan she said you keep listening because you somehow hope it might change- same thing I said but different."

(:) adoration all over!)

I think this could be the case for a lot of people Meg, that you hope what the HG's will change. I think that's great and says a lot about a person. That you have that eternal hope for your fellow man, as they say.

"I actually think you are lucky to be able to separate your emotions from the game so successfully- I have never been able to do that so I get hurt, upset, sad, you know the emotional drill!"

I think my experience here last year taught me to not get emotional about the HG. (You remember, don't you? LOL!) Honestly, it was just too exhausting for me; especially when I never really knew the HG's anyway. It's enabled me to actually enjoy the season more. But how I enjoy it works for me; doesn't mean it would work for anyone else. I think it's great that you have emotions for the HG's Meg. Nothing bad about that, I say.

Heck, I received an email from someone from the board tonight that one could easily get mad about. But I'm not. BB4 is entertainment for me. No more, no less.

"That is why it is not so easy to just have it be a debate without letting feelings into it for me and others like me. This year the emotionally driven viewer has been severely put to the test, lol!"

I completely understand what you're saying Meg. Last year, it's how I felt as well.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.

Cricket

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Great post, Nexell2. Hmmm, I could live my whole life (and do) without watching Howard Stern, so if Arnold were to advertise BB5 as that type of show, I doubt I would even tune in.

However, like many of you, I keep thinking that by getting to know strangers in the house, these people might actually grow and change. Every year it seems, we see the HG's complain about what they are asked to do in the DR. I just hope Arnold/Allison realize the show would be more interesting if it didn't seem so 'acted.' Don't they realize we see/hear/read what's going on?

Gidget

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Good one Maris. I would like to see a broader mix, though. And people with real jobs. I yearn for BB2 & 3

Helgapataki

Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Has anybody thought about the fact that in the house, the only thing they really have in common is each other? Their housemates become their world, and talking about them is their only way of connecting with each other. We can say that maybe they should talk about politics, religion, recipes or reincarnation, but the fact is, the game is their focus and the people are the game. They get pissed, and they talk sh!t. It makes them all look ugly, definitely. Still, I don't think dismissing any of them AS PEOPLE for such things is appropriate or reasonable given the circumstances.

I've probably posted in the wrong place at the wrong time and whether anyone agrees w/me or not, I've been thinking this over the last week as I read the boards and observe posters here trashing people for trashing people. Whatever! I've talked smack about my co-workers when they p!ss me off, because the work environment can become a bubble like BB. The point, if I have one, is that I think there is far too much focus on the catty gossiping they all do about one another. What the heck else do they have to talk about at this point????