Archive through September 18, 2003
MoveCloseDeleteAdmin

TV ClubHouse: Archive: Elena was there - fair or unfair?: Archive through September 18, 2003

Mystery

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Not fair. But not surprising since Robert got ACs for the same reason. I don't think fairness was BB's primary concern.

Bracken

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
THERE WAS A 14TH PLAYER IN THE HOUSE THIS YEAR, HER NAME WAS ELENA!


Fair or unfair, a concept hard to apply to BB after watching the last four years, lol.


That Robert was the only one in the house with a small child set him apart, and he has garnered much sympathy because of it. Having no other HGs with that family situation, I can't even begin to make an assessment as to the fairness of his reunion with her. Perhaps next year when they may have more HGs with families, we can better judge BBs treatment of them.

Robert is overly emotional and almost wept at the heartfelt (yeah, right) goodbye messages from Jun and Alison, lol. I agree with you What555. I'm actually put off by his professing his great love for his daughter and don't think she should have been made a part of this show. Because he was the only one with a child, he won the America's Choice. I'm not disagreeing with those who voted for him for this reason, I just think it was based on the fact that he was the only one with a child. That fact alone should have changed the basis of the America's Choice and I think they should not have been family based at all. No offer of letters or phone calls.

Give them a movie, like the last luxury or a CD or something else. These AC choices were clearly biased in favor of the only HG with a child.

Also, the third place runner up should get more of a weekly stipend than the jury, this is just stupid that they have to play the game longer and actually get less from it than the jury. The pay scale should escalate for each week you are in the house, then the jury sequestering would not be seen as a reward for losing. Just MHO.

Shereebie

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good Lord! How on earth do ANY of us know how Robert truly feels about his daughter? Who are any of us to say that he does not really love or care for her?

I am truly amazed at some of the things I've read in this thread.

Missapril

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't fall in love with Elena - I pitied her for having such an irresponsible, neglectful father who would actually use her and exploit her for his own personal gain. Ban parents? No way! Welcome them and then judge them accordingly for the extent to which their choice to play the game harms their kids.

Mpls

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree a lot with "What" said. I'm not going to go so far as to question how much love Robert has for his daughter, nor question his reasoning for leaving her for 3 months to be on a reality show. But I do agree this whole Robert/Elena biplay was all manuevering and manipulation on the part of BB/CBS.

Let's face it almost to a person the houseguests for this show have come across as pretty despicable human beings. The remaining three being amongst the most humanly despicable, and I put Robert right at the top. So I believe the powers that be decided to play up to the heartstrings of America and USE a child as a prop.

Many have been moved by this whole thing. I don't mind those that are, because it shows compassion which is needed in these days and times. But do not delude yourselves that it has been anything but calculated posturing by the network and show.

fair/unfair, I don't know. But since this jury sequestering thing, nobody else has seen a loved one.

Marameko

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Is Robert a scum bag for the derogatory remarks regarding Ali, Ericka and Jun yes indeed.

Am I glad he won nothing, nada, zip......you bet..
Am I glad he got to see his little girl,,,,,,,I am.
No airfare needed, no hotel, just monitor the chat between the and ship Robert and his quirky self to the very cool jury house.......

Monalisahi

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert clearly said he didn't think he would go the distance. Robert was clearly upset when he realized about being sequestered. I don't think he planned on being away from her for 3 months. But so what if he did???? People do it every day. By your arguments a person could easily say that a working parent is "an irresponsible, neglectful" parent. Oh dear, I send my kids to school.....how terrible of me being away from them for 10 or more hours a day. I've gone on business trips where I'm gone for 4 days.....oh my.

But, I've also seen some parents who are present with their kids around the clock but don't spend any QUALITY time with them.

To me, his and her loving relationship seemed genuine. I really don't give Robert enough credit in being that great of an actor.

Surreal_Badger

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
bb definitely milked the robert-elana story for all it was worth. i think this was a real "heart-string" issue that the producers thought they could manipulate from the get-go. i am really not the least bit surprised that elana was there. after all, if bb waited 'til to reunite them until after the show (as with all other hgs, minus final 2), they'd never be able to cash in on that momemt. and bottom line, it's not about "fairness" in any way, shape, or form for tv, it's about $$$

Katlady53

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Surreal, I totally agree! :)

Bastable

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, of course it's about $$$! It's TV! What's more, it's a game in which the object is to win $$$. Hopefully, this surprises none of us.

Lorry

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Elena was "NEEDED" to counter-balance the vileness of Ali and Jun.

If all we got to see was those two tearing the other HGs apart... well... it is tooooo ugly to even imagine...lol

With any show, something good has to happen... or the show is worthless. As a society, I don't (I hope not anyway) think we are ready for a show without some goodness.... Little Mama was our gift.. to remove the bad taste left by Ali and Jun.

I am soooo happy Robert got to hold his baby and she got to see her Daddy. Robert is the big winner of BB4.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't see how you can call Robert the big winner of BB4. He has a daughter that loves him, yes, so good for him. However, he earned his stipend of $10,000, the same as everyone else that got an extended all expenses paid stay at a beachfront resort. The only thing he got was added consternation of dealing with the "two bizatches" in the house.

His daughter was going to be there for him regardless of whether he won the game or not. I don't consider the fact that he has a daughter and that Jun and Alison don't, to mean that he is a bigger winner or better person than them. This is once again harking on the discussion upthread about how you must have children in order to be considered a "winner" in life. I disagree.

The big winner is going to be whoever wins the money, and that is Jun or Alison.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well if i had to choose i would want to go home to someone who loves me than to go home alone even with $500,000.

Blurose

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Last night when Robert was reunited with his daughter was a very emotional turn for me. I was so angry and Ali and Jun then out of the blue I was crying. In some ways I agree that is was unfair but at the same time I think if he was the 5th or 6th Juror he wouldn't have been able to see Elena but he is the 7th and the game is pretty much over. For those of you who are sitting here saying that he doesn't love his daughter that he just used her to play the game...shame on all of you. It doesn't matter weather he used her or not. The point is is that Elena obviously loves her father and that is all there is to it. All you people need to grow up because this is really starting to get stupid the way people are attacking Robert about his daughter.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kalekona, just because they don't have a kid now doesn't mean that they will never have one in the future.

Danzdol

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it was nice that they made this little girl happy by letting her talk to her dad and write to him and letting her see her daddy early but that's just me. When it comes to kids....all is fair!

I have a mushy heart for it sorry!

Don't care for Robert but I loved seeing her smile and hated to see her cry because she was sad so I was happy that she got to give her daddy a big hug.At that point I was not even thinking about fair or unfair , just seeing her smile was great!

Lorry

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This has nothing to do with his having a daughter... His having a daughter was simply bonus... a gift to us the viewers who needed a pick me up from the ceasless bashing and ugliness presented by Ali and Jun.

He's the big winner because it was obvious he is a great Dad, a kind and considerate person... able to admit his faults.. he has grown as a person.. made long lasting friends, and accepted his defeat with kindness, dignity, and the love of his many many many fans. I say that is being the big winner... Just my opinion, but reflected by many other posters... and obviously by America as he won the most America's Choice Awards.

Money has nothing to do with being a winner... it is obvious that no matter what the amount of money Ali or Jun win... they are not winners.... they lost in the hearts and minds of Robert's fans. They lost their dignity, they came off as just plain repulsive in my opinion...

That is all that counts to me... I don't mind anyone with an opposing view, but it does not change my view in the least... JMO

Kalekona

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazy i wasn't talking about them having a kid.. i said just what i meant "someone who loves me" They are both going home alone... except for their parents. Donny has already said he wouldn't bet on them being together after the show and Bob and Jun aren't together.

(i sincerly hope Ali NEVER has children)

Angelsluv

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Braken,
Only time I heard about $$$ was during BB2. Each HG received $750 for each week they lasted in the house. I haven't heard if the $$ was raised for BB3, nor how they would do it involving this sequestering twist. I'm sure they all got enough for even volunteering for the show, and it still stood that the longer you stayed in the house, the more you received.
********
EarthMother,
Long Island Iced Tea
1/4 oz. Absolut Vodka
1/4 oz. Sauza Commemorativo Tequila
1/4 oz. Bacardi Rum
1/4 oz. Bombay Gin
Sweet & Sour Mix
Cola
In a tall glass with ice,
Shake.
Top with Cola.
********
On another note, Robert seems not to have full custody of his daughter, so we really don't know how much visitation he normally gets anyway. I didn't care either way when he saw his daughter last night.

What bothers me is that as we all saw, Roberts characterization was severely manipulated to make him out to be a perfect person/perfect father in the eyes of the veiwing public, when in fact we saw what he was like in the feeds, leaning to the oppisite.

I know that all the HG's that were ever on the show had their personailities manipulated for the tv veiwers-only (as opposed to feed viewers), but it seems to me that Robert's was more visible and drastic than any other.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think airing the comments about the women balance out the characterization of Robert.
They did not show him at all as a perfect person.. only a loving father.

As for cutody i know Elenas mother said they share her care equally. She is with his parents a lot and he lives in house at his bparents place (correct?)

Cameramanbob

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for posting that Lorry! - So very thoughtful.

Judging by Robert's comments on all the shows - I personally do not think that he is suddenly out to reform himself. I like his repeated phrase, "They know how I am..." whenever he estimates his own character. What I like about R is that his character refines itself before your eyes by the experiences he has, and not because he deludes himself with fantasys of self-improvement, or imagined guilt.

As far as Elana goes, there is a very real element of possibilty that her presence from the beginning LOST Robert his chances of winning money, so as compensation it is absolutely right that she should be there for him on his last day.

As far as winning money goes - Robert MAY be better off without it. That boy could use some serious challenges financially for his intestinal fortitude. In that case, he could afford to get a little of what Ali already has - some inner strength and will power.

As far as money goes, would Ali be spoiled by a windfall? A drop in a bucket wouldn't change a thing.

Lorry

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who was manipulated to look good? The biggest manipulation was how BB manipulated Jun and Ali to look like lovely little girls when in fact, they were more vulgar then any other HG... continue, after the fact to bash the other HGs...

However, as seen by who won the AC award... the public was not fooled.

I just hope the public gets to see the real Jun and Ali.... rofl.. but can that much "reality" (ugliness) be permitted on tv???

Crazydog

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL, Cameramanbob, it seems Robert has already been challenged financially, and instead of developing intestinal fortitude, he has chosen to live with his parents at 33 years old.

I don't think Elena costed Robert the money. Even if he hadn't used her to win the America's Choices, I think Jun and Alison would have gotten rid of him regardless. Elena or no Elena, he had more friends on the jury and that's why he had to go.

I agree, Kalekona, Alison should never reproduce. But I'd put good money on the fact that Jun and Bob will be together, regardless of whether she wins or not. I think he knows from watching the show how much he means to her.

Kalekona

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
crazy how did Robert use Elena to win AC? They were all asked the same question who would you like to hear from.. if anyone used Elena it was CBS not Robert, he was inside and had no control over anything.

You may be right about jun and bob.. it will be interesting to see what happens there

And you are right it wasn't Elena that lost the game for him it was the allience on the jury..

Crazydog

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, Kale, that's what I meant, that CBS exploited Elena, and continued to do so once they saw how much crying Robert did over her.

And I'm rooting for Jun and Bob. The times she talked about Bob were the only times I've ever seen Jun really be vulnerable. It shows that she has a soft side to her, and I wish them the best.