Archive through September 26, 2003
MoveCloseDeleteAdmin

TV ClubHouse: Archive: I still don't get it. : Archive through September 26, 2003

Cliotheleo

Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, I've watched the show three times now, and I understand that Jun won because she was considered the lesser of two evils but I don't understand WHY they thought that. I mean, if we're looking at who was the most evil, I would have been in that voting room all day trying to decide which key to put in the box.

Can anyone clue me in? I mean I know Justin said he'd rather be stabbed in the front than the back, do we think that pretty much summed it up for everyone else? What am I missing?

Meggieprice

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Clio- I do understand it. Jun and Ali played very similar games in that they played both sides against the middle but Ali would directly lie and make promises and then break them and betray you. Jun was very careful not to promise a vote unless she meant to truly give it. She admitted freely to floating as the game went on. She knew how to imply and infer she was with you without promising you so that looking back no one could actually say she had burned them. Ali would lie bald faced- such as when she repeatedly told Jee and Robert she was allied with them before the Erika/Jack vote. I felt all along that Jun was playing the smarter game for that very key difference.

Remember, the jury went by what they experienced in the house- not by watching the two of them trashing people 24/7! We are the ones that saw that, ad nauseum, lol.

Cliotheleo

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well that's true, Jun had it mastered when it came to mind-control.

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggie that is an excellent summation of Justin & probably Erika's and Jee's feelings.

In addition, I think that there is a certain amount of respect for Jun in that she gave the appearance of having a plan throughout the game that she implemented and followed through. I'm sure that when they all talked about it, they all realized how Jun had influenced and controlled most of the nomination and votes. Ultimately, I think that Jack completely respected that kind of planning and subtle manipulation, which is why he voted for her over Jun.

As for Robert & Dana, my guess is that Robert was influenced by discussions with the others, especially Justin. And Dana...well, everyone knew the way that that vote was going to go!

Kalihiwahine

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 02:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
ok this is my take on it...

MAYBE they closed their eyes and just picked one of the keys to put into the box...

but I don't understand Justin's "stab in the front than the back" remark... did alison stab him at all? ... if I remember correctly, she didn't nominate him and she even told him that she never would...

Erika was still pi$$ed that Alison took her advice when she told alison to do what's best for alison... well, the girl just took Erika's advice...

Robt feels that ONLY HE can talk about other people and their daughters...

Jee and his honorable crap...
...WAS HE honorable when he had everybody eat only pb&j and told them that he would also but did not...
...WAS HE honorable when he made alison think that she was in with them but planned to get rid of her as soon as he & robt didn't need her...
...WAS HE honorable when he had those FAKE arguments with jun, his secret alliance...
...WAS HE honorable when he didn't tell his own dream team about his secret alliance with Jun...

Dana & Justin were such a couple in sequester house that even IF alison had given perfect answers to their questions, they absolutely would NEVER give any votes to Alison ...

Jack knew that the JFK movie only had the name of the victim and the date correct...

Nathan was last years Jason (voting for 2nd place winner)...

...and the jury saw Shapiro's "edited" for tv shows... live feed posters saw Alison complaining about having to say stuff in the diary room and when Erika asked her about it, we got F-O-T-H

p.s. I really didn't care whether Ali or Jun won... they each had their own strategy... it was a game and they made it to the Final 2...

(i hope no one yells at me for expressing these opinions...this is just my interpretation of how i get it)
(and I think that Jun did give calm, cool, collected answers...ali gave the wrong answer to erika & erika influenced robt & jack)

Squidward

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 02:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Alison blatantly sucked up to the group which had HOH for the week and promptly deserted them once their power was gone. Jun might have as well, but not so openly. And Jun did not crawl into bed with practically all of the men. She used her brain more, whereas Ali tried to use her body. (why any guy would fall for her flirting I have no idea, she is not attractive and has zero personality. Those guys must have been very lonely in that house, lol) Ali was an outright liar playing both sides and just plain nasty to boot. Jun was no angel, but she was no Ali either.

Bronxie

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 04:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I believe the jury disliked both of them equally,
but being a diffused mother figure in the kitchen and knowing the way to their hearts (three times a day plus snacks) tipped the scale in Jun's direction. Ali had a zero on the side of Do Unto Others.

Whit4you

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 04:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Kalihiwahine

Well I certainly would hope as well that nobody yells at you.. very well put. :)

I can now save the time to respond to this thread by saying

"What Kalihiwahine said" :)

Queenfish

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
IMHO, Ali just went overboard on certain things (attitude, being easy with the guys, being annoying in general, she was blatantly untrustworthy ect. ). While Jun may have played a similar game, she wasn't as obvious about it as Ali was. Ali beat herself. While she had the physical capabilities to win veto comps to keep herself in the game, she is not as smart as she would like to believe she is. And , sorry Ali supporters, but If you are very intelligent, you don't need to tell other people how smart you are. She spent as much time in that house talking about how smart she was as she did turning on those fake tears or wearing the pagent fake smile.
Hope I don't get yelled at either kalihiwahine. It is just my honest take on the situation.

Vskatefan

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali basically played a more extroverted game than Jun. For some reason, that adds up to a "better game" in some people's eyes. I think it is easy to use one's body to get ahead. It is harder to be more subtle and use your brain more of the time like Jun did. I think Onlyhuman pegged most of this right. Jun had a lot more control in the game than some realize. To me it is obvious Jun played a better game. Winning comps isn't everything.

Jbfrommi

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 06:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Queenfish, Alison didn't go overboard on certain things, she went overboard on EVERYTHING!

Badabing

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 06:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I say it depends on what you call honorable. In this case i see 2 definitions :

a) Honorable in everyday life : see dictionary

b) Honorable in BB : (my personal definition)scheeming, lieing, backstabbing,flirting to a certain extent, instilling doubt in other houseguests minds to further yoursel is ok (What is not permited is racism, bigotry,homophobia,violence, and anything that is personnal and not pertinent to the strategy of the game itself.

By those definitions, i guess Jun was more honorable. JMO by the way...

Chippy

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 06:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I confess, Clio, I was like you. I couldn't figure out how they decided- since they voted before seeing the tapes. I could only conclude that:
1. They had their own reasons for their feelings toward one or the other
2. They listened and believed the jury members that came in after them with their own stories

Interesting though is that the same ones they believed were the ones they couldn't trust in the game. I was surprised that they didn't fess up to certain things once arriving in the jury house knowing that the tapes were going to be viewed at some point (even if not till after the show was over). I mean, why didn't they take the opportunity to apologize and mend fences, explain, whatever?

I think Meggie has it right and Jun was just less offensive than Ali. I was so afraid they wouldn't figure that out with the information they had. By all accounts from the exit interviews, many of them were certainly leaning towards Ali.

And, I love Badabing's definitions of honorable and think that's exactly right. There are still lines that can be crossed- even in a game with virtually no rules. I'm glad for that. It restores my faith in humanity.

Seanflynn2003

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
And it wasn't just picking a winner, it was giving $500,000 before taxes to one of them. I think the jury thought Jun as the more mature, responsible adult was the better recipient.

Pixieduster

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think all of Ali's comments about having played harder neglected the fact that winning a few competitions was NOT more difficult than cooking multiple times a day.

I'll take game playing a day or so a week over cooking every day. Jun definitely worked harder! Poor thing, slaving over a hot stove every day. Now that's playing hard!

Lori

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Pixie. Never underestimate the power of a cook. If everything is equal, I would vote for the person who fed my face 3x a day! :)

Eliz87

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
mmm hmmm -- I don't even cook breakfast every single day for my husband. I can't imagine doing breakfast, lunch & dinner for a household of 12, or even 4, all of the time.

Lori

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 07:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Very true Eliz!

Cliotheleo

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok Kali, I had it all figured out and you came along and got me all confused again. :) Good points!

Squid, since when did men start using attractiveness as a rationale for why they should mess around with someone? :) (sorry guys, but you know I speak the truth!)

Now after reading everyone's responses, it's starting to make more sense to me esp. when you think about the jury being away from the house and obviously being in shock over the "real" Ali vs. Jun who wasn't really hiding anything.

But I'm still stumped on Jack. Robert also to a degree, but I think he could have been easily swayed by the others.

Spunky

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
All I can say I'm now happy Jun did not get a unanimous vote as she 'wanted'.

I think Jun is lucky that Ali wasn't the big evil everyone thinks she is. Jun has to thank Ali for not being the real backstabber she is accused of being, she could have kept Robert instead of Jun. She had that much power in the end but did not abuse it and kept her word. Someone should tell this to Jun... whoever is going to that CBS Live chat.

Clubcarl

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Plus Jun did nails!

Monalisahi

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spunky, it had nothing to do with keeping her word. If she thought she had a chance of beating Robert, she would have taken him.

Pixieduster

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Right Clubcarl - and don't forget she gave massages too! Dang, she worked her butt off.

Now, not to be racist or discriminatory, I think Jun may just have a future opening up a spa and becoming the Wholistic Nazi.

Why not - there's been a Soup Nazi, a Diet Nazi. Jun cooks, does nails, gives massages and plays with your mind and your soul. She's got the body, mind, spirit connection going...why not be the Wholistic Nazi

Seanflynn2003

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
That isn't racist Pixie, but it is offensive.
Sorry.

Cliotheleo

Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Pixie, I wasn't offended at all. "Soup Nazi" I get it! Text description