Archive through September 18, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Elena was there - fair or unfair?: Archive through September 18, 2003

Llkoolaid

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazydog, I hope I didn't offend you by my post of 8:26. Like I said I know it is wrong to think this way, and it is not really the way I think, I know people don't have children for lots of reasons, and I know that doesn't mean they don't know children or how they should be raise or how to love them, that is silly. But I do believe that most of us were raised to believe having children is a normal thing to want and I think that is why those negative thoughts pop in our heads about people who don't choose to have them. Thankfully rational takes over and most of us realize that it is also perfectly normal not to want children now or maybe never.

Gen

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have no problems with BB bringing in Elena to see her Dad. After all, as many are so happy to point out - THIS IS JUST A GAME.

What does upset me is hearing these people whine about not seeing their families for 3+ months. How many other families are separated for longer than that for much more important reasons than a game these people chose to play. Consider the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do they miss their families? Heck yes, but they are there to do a job (a dangerous one at that), they are doing it, and most of them have been gone much longer than 3+ months. So I would say to these whining HGs - shut the heck up! Their stress is nothing compared to the stress of REAL life.

Bearware

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Warning: the following is a long diatribe which could be considered a seriously long post. The author is sorry!

I think we have a few issues here that should be sorted out and separated. First is the issue of fairness. No, in no way was it FAIR that Robert got to see his daughter when that was a perk no one else had.

Now, is FAIRNESS really the issue? I doubt it, as BB has not played fair in 4 years. Some guests are given hints and clues, some competitions are slanted, and sometimes, the good guys do seem to win. Fairness is not in the contract for this show. Ratings IS in the show's best interest, and to be honest, I think it was a good choice by the producers to have that bit of heart-warming film shown to America.

Second... The fact that a child is involved seems to have brought to light some 'issues' that people have. I personally believe that American parents too often do not see their children in the real light of truth, but somehow manage to put them on pedestals. As a teacher, I can say, this IS detrimental to the development of children, as they need to comprehend responsiblitiy and personal accountability, and sometimes they just aren't getting it. However, should parents be attacked for thinking about and caring about their children? NO! The fact that Robert did should not be counted against him.

As a single person, I have fought for many years that there seem to be biases towards families that the single or childless do not share in the benefits of. Is it fair? No. Is it a reality? Yes. Should we work to change it? Possibly. But we should NOT penalize people who have children or discriminate against children who do not. The old Native American adage "Don't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his moccasins" needs to be applied here.

Thirdly : There seems to be an issue about disagreements. The major premise of this board is for dissenting opinions to be voiced without censorship or negative repercussions. For anyone here to judge anyone else as 'unworthy' just because they disagree does seem to be rather 'un-TVCH' like. Perhaps we all need to step back a bit, and realize there's room for us all here. I for one like the diversity of thought.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth. And now that I've said all this, this thread will die, as several have lately!

Bastable

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
A lot of posters would have complained if Elena hadn't been allowed to see him. Some of us just get off on complaining, which is fine, as long as we remember how full of poop we are.

Brenda1966

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Llkoolaid, I hope no one found your post offensive because you did a good job of explaining how I feel as well. I have women friends who never wanted kids and in my mind I think "how on earth could you not want kids -- that's all I've ever wanted!" So, try as I might, I can't wrap my mind around the thought that kids aren't the most important thing. And when I see childless couples my natural assumption is that the couldn't have kids, not that they didn't want to, even though I know couples who didn't want to!

I loved the scene with Robert and Alayna.

Propita

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert has never been my favorite. Actually, none of them are, although Ali really has played the game well--she played all of them. And that's what BB is getting to be: Who can manipulate the rest, the best.

That being said, I am glad Robert got to see his girl, even though no one else got to see a loved one. As said, he is the only HG with a small child.

For those who think all those without kids are self-centered, go jump in the lake! There are those who tried and couldn't; those who can't afford to so rightfully didn't; those who have genetic problems and decided they shouldn't. My husband went back to school when he was 33 (I was 29). He was in school for 7 years while I worked. If we had had a kid then, who would've taken care of it? Day care? Oh yeah, let's have a kid and pack it off so I can rush back to my job, when we couldn't afford a good day care anyway. Or maybe we should've just let it stay home alone while we were both away.

After my husband graduated, we had to decide whether or not to have a kid. We decided not to for a number of reasons: We were both getting a bit older to start that phase. I was exposed to quite a few things at work (radiation, fumes, concentrated magnetic fields) that may or may not have health effects--we'll find out when I'm older and they start having effects--but in the mean time, we didn't think it fair to expose a new being to that possibility. By that alone, we were not being self-centered, but were in fact, looking out for possible problems.

I don't care who wins. Don't like either of htem much.

Aunt_Bob

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just for the record: IMO - I think Stardust was stating her 'opinions of how she feels at the moment', just like everyone else! Her wording might not be 'sensitive or pc' enough for some, but that is her being herself, being real!

Like it's been said, "There is room for all types of opinions here on these boards..."

Spunky

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't think if it was fair or not, my first thought was: Elena's mom is there with the girl and when Robert brings Elena back to her mother the woman may whisper to him what Ali and Jun have been saying about their daughter... So Robert knows about the whole mess we were talking about yesterday...(That press ripping Ali and Jun).

Lori

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What's the big deal? I found it very heartwarming. Fair?...probably not but I'm sure the other sequestered HG's won't complain about it.

Denecee

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't agree with Star blowing up on this thread. I have always thought that the posters here on TVCH have been well mannered and gracious. Other boards I visit are not so nice. I do think it was nice of BB to let Elana see her father. I don't care if it was fair or not because I'm not and have not been one of the hg.

Maris

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
None of us know whether the houseguests who were evicted were prevented from seeing family after they left the house and before they came into the sequestration house. It is obvious that the evicted houseguests arrive during the day time which means they probably have the previous evening free. I would not be surprised at all if the evicted do get to see family when they leave for a few hours. Roberts family is also in LA so it was no big deal having someone there to see him for an hour or two.

I think it is a non issue.

Crazydog

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
No problem, Llkoolaid. No offense taken. I recognize that that's the reality of how things are. I am not at the stage in my life where I yet have children, maybe in a few years. I guess I was just trying to express my irritation from about a week or so ago where somebody here told me that "unless you have children yourself you can't possibly be in a position to understand and comment on what Robert is going through".

Bearware, that was a great post! I agree - it is not fair that Elena was brought in, but I'm not surprised they did it. I just wanted some discussion about this to see if anyone else thought the same.

And Gen, I agree with your comments about the U.S. troops as well. These BB contestants have it so easy. And they are not even risking their lives.

Lucymac

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I thought it was great they had Elena there and I'm glad that BB did that. As has been said at this point it's not going to affect the outcome of the game so I really see no harm in it. And after all the phoniness we've seen on the show it was great to see some true emotion. I can't imagine the majority of the houseguests having a problem with it other than Jun and Ali.

Earthmother

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
oops

Earthmother

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert gets kicked out with no money and only gets to spend a couple of days in paradise so give the guy a break...I only hope in that couple of days he does some serious damage..Daddy's Rule!!!

Rainwoman

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it was a great move to bring in Robert's daughter at that particular time. It really sucks to be evicted one away from the Final 2, and Robert was unpredictable in how he would take that. I think his daughter was a great way to cool him off and change the mood to sheer joy.

That scene with Robert and his daughter had me in tears, just like their phone call together did. It was a really nice "unexpected" moment. Loved it.

Flamingo

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lets not forget that Robert chose to be away from his daughter for 3 months - this was not just something that was forced upon him. He gets kicked out with no money? Well, and so did all but 2 of the other contestants. That is the game.

Sweetbabygirl

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Whatever the case, I nearly cried when he was reunited with his "Mama".

His views on women notwithstanding, I liked Robert and the "Dream Team" and wished he could have made it to the final two. That said, Ali deserves to win (BARF!), because she played the hell out of this game. I'd rather see her win over Jun anyday.

Shereebie

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
How awful to think that current and future HGs have been, are being, and will be judged based on whether or not they have small children and how BB (not the HG) chooses to handle those relationships.

I'll just stay out of this thread.

Toolhound

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think when you sign up to play the game everyone should live by the same rules. When my daughter was young I would not have left her for 3 months for anything short of life and death. Maybe they should consider a new rule banning people with children from playing the game. That would eliminate a lot of crying on the show and really screw up all the soft hearted americas choice voters. Having a child is a commitment that should not be taken lightly you can't take 3 months vacation from parenting.

Earthmother

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
people do a lot of things to take them away from their families for extended periods of time, he was trying to earn a nest egg ...let us not forget that some fathers and mothers skip out on their kids for years without looking back..can't you give the guy some props for not being a dead-beat dad....I know he said crap that some of you can't get over, but what the hell does that have to do with seeing his kid..geeze

Flamingo

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert won all of the America's Choice competions, simply because he had a child, and was the only jury member allowed to see a family member, simply because he had a child. That will definitely cause future competitiors with children to be voted out early. It gives them an advantage in the game.

Cliotheleo

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, but I don't know that his winning America's Choice had anything to do with the game. The two seem pretty much unrelated. We decide who wins AC, the HGs decide who stay in the house and who wins the game.

I'm missing the connection. Text description

Bastable

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If anything, winning too many ACs is bad because it makes the other HGs nervous about their chances of winning against you.

If America is dumb enough to vote an America's Choice winner because they have a child, then they're dumb enough to deserve a show full of 13 hot men and women with nothing but toddlers waiting alone at home.

By the way, this wasn't an issue before this year. Robert made it his issue. Krista, to take one contestant, was not successful in playing the Lakin card. In fact, it sort of got her voted out. Karen begged to be voted out because of her kids. Every year, it's different. Banning contestants with kids makes no sense to me. I don't get the need behind it and it's not remotely logical to me. In fact, it's kind of judgmental.

Earthmother

Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Did it ever occur to you that even if Robert weren't a father he might have won (especially the last one) because he wasn't as vile as the company he was keeping. Maybe America wanted a chat with someone who would answer their questions honestly.. Dani didn't win everything last year and she had kids...hmmmmmm could it be that she was not acting nice enough for America??????