Archive through September 19, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Will Ali be hurt if it's 7-0 for Jun?: Archive through September 19, 2003

C1mag

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazy said that Nate will be upset because Ali "stabbed him in the back" NOPE! It's in the rules. He knows she was there to play for herself. He will recognize her as the one that played him out of the game and beat him personally. He harbors no anger towards her. He'll say she's a liar, a manipulator and a backstabber and then laugh and say, "she was good" and his vote will be for Ali. More important he couldn't stand Jun. A vote for Ali is like nails on a chalkboard to Dana. No edited footage from sequester house will ever convince me that Nate is comfortable around Dana.

Jack will definitely appreciate Ali's competitve spirit. His vote will not be based on "who he liked" Erika will make it clear... Ali played it out. Not the way they wanted but look at her she is in the finals. He will applaude her effort. His vote will go to Ali.

Erika definitely knows Ali played the hardest. She actually knows very little about Jun. Erika will vote Ali.

Rob is a definite Ali vote. Parting words a week before voting clearly say his vote goes to Ali.

Justin is a good guy at heart and he's honest. Ask him who played the game the hardest and he'd look at any crybaby saying, "but I hate her" and he'd say, Ali played the hardest like it or not. I heard him pretty much do the same in the house when his DT brothers were complaining about the other side bragging when they had won. He told them to stop and that it's understandable and they had done the same. Justin will vote for Ali over Jun. I don't think he cared for Jun too much. This is a good way to get rid of Dana at this point if the honeymoon is over between them.

Jee is he vengeful? You bet he is. This is the same man that forced them all on pbj to get his way and didn't care. Jun nominated and evicted him. He has every reason to vote for Ali. She played hard. Jun used and betrayed him. The man is emotional. He's on my 50/50 list. either way wouldn't surprise me with him.

Dana... Now here's the funny one. We all say she will vote for Jun. Even I say it's obvious. However, she's an obsessive compulsive thinker. Dana has a problem in deciding. Of the two left who beat her in the game she wanted to play for years? Ali personally destroyed her chances and walked her to the door. Is Dana gonna suck it up and give Ali the nod but also give her a long speech before she gives her a vote? This one could be fun. Instinct says yes she will vote for Jun but she's so out there she may shock us all.

I think we will hear a lot of complaining about Ali from all of them but in the end I think they will aknowledge her as the harder palyer and she will win. They will say no love loss but they wanted to be fair in their eyes. To jun they would say she did a good job but Ali played a bit harder and she should have thought a bit harder who she wanted to take with her and not assume that standing next to Ali would be an easy victory. Very similar to Rich Hatch. Ali will be shocked and Jun will lose with grace. Life will go on and may A.S. NEVER do this damn "ex" factor again.

Crazydog

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1mag, that's good analysis, but I think instead that Nathan is going to see that Alison is the one that cost him $500,000. He saved her with the veto. If he hadn't, she'd be out. David would be in, and nobody would have made the mistake of not nominating Justin. I don't think he's going to reward her gameplay, I think he's going to blame her for preventing him from getting further in the game.

All of the voters know that Ali is as fake as a three dollar bill, so I don't know what effect Alison is going to have on them with her answers or her final speech. If she cries the crocodile tears, I don't think anyone will truly believe that is sorry for a minute. I think they are all smarter than that, and they will see through her.

C1mag

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Should say again I'm not certain of what I posted up there but feel it could go that way. I don't see all of them voting on "who they liked" or thinking that giving someone 50k is some type of "revenge" I think we will actually have a majority that looks past all the words and just looks at the game.

C1mag

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazy I just don't see Nate as a poor sport. I think he will see her as a hard competitor that beat him personally and he'll give her the larger money. I also think that he will get a sorta kick out of seeing the reaction from Dana for voting for her. I also factor in his dislike for Jun in his decision. Nate is a competitor and he will see Ali as the harder player of the two. He knows he got burned by her but he also knows that was the game. Burn or get burned. Obviously she was better at it then him and he knows it. I just don't see him as a sore loser.

I do agree that she shouldn't lay it on thick at all with the jury. Just answer the questions and remind them that you played your hardest and didn't hide in the background and see what happens.

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 03:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1mag, you are going on the premise that the "harder player" is the one that gets herself into situations which she must get herself out of, as compared to the one that controlled things so well that she was never at risk.

Let's compare it to a football game. Is the team that played the hardest the one that misread defenses and had to scramble to recover from muffed plays only to miraculously pull it out in the end or the team that had such a smooth game plan in place and did everything right on both offense and defense so that they were never in trouble in the game?

Yeah, the scrambling and the last minute heroics get your heart racing and the viewers pumped, but it doesn't make them the better team it just makes them good and lucky.

Seanflynn2003

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1, again I am taken aback by your certainty (at least as you write your analysis) of how the jury will react one by one.

I also totally disagree with your statement that Allison played the game the hardest. I think Jun played it just as hard, if not harder. Allison played more outfront in their faces and did out and out lie; Jun was more subtle and behind the scenes. Both are legitimate ways to play, but to say that Allison's way shows that she played harder is just not what I take from the show. To say that this (playing harder than Jun) gives her the victory I think is wrong. Other factors might, but not that.

I do believe that the personal comes into things. It has for the last two years with the jury. Will won not because of his in your face consistent playing, but because he was up against Nicole, who the other jury members despised by that point. Lisa won last year of course with the DR entries as a factor, but frankly, without them, I still think she would have been the close winner, partially because Danielle overplayed her hand.

Do you think that without the DR entries that Danielle would have won last year? And Lisa clearly did not play as hard as Danielle, but was a choice the jury was willing to make anyway.

I will be stunned speechless if the vote is 6-1 or 7-0 Allison, shocked if it is 5-2, surprised if it is 4-3 Allison, really expect it to be somewhere between 4-3 and 7-0 for Jun. In a close call (and in reviewing the action they both played similarly), of course personal feelings (in this case negative toward Allison) are likely to come into play.

Gina8642

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The thing is different people admire different styles of play. Some people like the 'strong' player, others the one in the shadows. Just because one person admires Jun's type of play, doesn't mean another won't admire Alison's more.

Someone who chooses Ali over Jun isn't wrong - they may just differ from the Jun pickers. Nothing wrong with having different opinions on what 'good' play is. Unlike football - there is no 'score' at the end.

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina, I agree with you about the different game styles, but what I was trying to point out is that even if they put ALL of their feelings aside, there is no clear cut case of "the harder player".

It's not like Jun just sat around and played cards while the rest of the house eliminated each other. Jun smoked Justin in the veto he needed to win too save himself. Her time was even better than Ali's before Ali decided to waste more time so Justin could win. Jun rocked it on the HOH that she needed to evict Jee. When Ali won the veto prior to nominations, Jun was the first to realize that Ali had to go on the block in order to keep her under control. She kept the ladies focused on getting Jee out when Robert was irritating the heck out of them. Every time Jun wanted someone evicted, that person went. She controlled so much that she never needed the "Hail Mary" play that Ali was forced to resort to twice.

Because they both played such a good game, it's going to HAVE to come down to personal likes and dislikes. In this respect, I think that Jun will be the ultimate winner.

Gina8642

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Onlyhuman - you may feel that way - but my point is, others may not. Including, possibly, people on the jury. I think Alison played harder. I'm not wrong in my own opinion - because it is just that - my opinion.

There seems to be a real failure to see that different people have different opinions and just because one person thinks niether Jun nor Alison played harder, doesn't make it a fact - only an opinion. In this type of game, it can only be an opinion. Like I said - this isn't football - there is no score. All decisions are subjective, not objective.

Maris

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that Alison played harder. By harder I mean Alison took more risks constantly. She was on the block and got herself off numerous times. She openly manipulated and lied to people and still managed to get to the end.

Jun played a different game and she played it 100% but I didnt see as much risk in Juns gameplaying which is evidenced by the fact that she was only on the block as a decoy. Alison was on the block because the HOH wanted her out. Alison turned every negative in that house around to be a benefit to her.

Seanflynn2003

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina, it depends on your definition of harder. It can mean different things. I believe they both played hard, but there is more than one way to play hard. Jun and Allison played hard in different ways. Just because someone plays with finesse and subtlety doesn't mean she plays less hard.
Look at baseball -- Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux have both been star pitchers for the last few years. They have different styles -- Johnson throws high MPH fastballs down the center (a strength pitcher), Maddux uses his head more and uses finesse to paint the corners. To an outsider, it would be easier to say "Johnson plays harder than Maddux." But Maddux uses his head more to enhance his pitching skills. I think he plays just as hard as Johnson.
Same goes in a Jun/Allison comparison. Different styles, each playing hard. As onlyhuman said, when the jury analyzes that, I think they will come to the same conclusion, and then decide more on personalities and the style of play they prefer.

Gina8642

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 04:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sean - did you read my post??!!???!!!??? I just said the decision is subjective. UGH!!!!

Unless you are agueing that the decision is objective and can be quantified in some magical (and secret) BB formula that the jury is required to use - please stop argueing - there is nothing to argue with in my post.

Try reading it again - and leave my opinion as my opinion.

Seanflynn2003

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina, my post specifically says that harder can mean different things to different people. I was agreeing with you. You should reread mine.

Sherri

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Excellent analogies Onlyhuman and Seanflynn2003 - I've loved football and baseball since I was 5, and that was a long time ago!

Pixieduster

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The title of the thread is, Will Ali be hurt? I'm not sure that I've seen any indication of her ability to be hurt by anything. Pissed? Yes. Hurt? Don't think so.

Edited to add - they're now showing Ali crying. Still seems like anger, frustration, etc. as opposed to hurt. She's talked about using her tears. Justin just said it's typical Ali drama and she's just a drama queen.

Spyder

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The posts about Ali's confrontation with the jury made me suddenly realize just why Ali is so panicked--

She plays each person completely differently! When she faces the jury, she will be in front of everyone at once and will be unable to play each person as she played them alone.

It will be very tricky for her. Robert, for instance, may buy her pal treatment, but what will other jury members think if she sucks up to him in front of them? She has woven a very tangled web* that will be difficult to extricate herself from.

Spyder
*no pun intended

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gina, I actually got what you were trying to say, I guess my point was that we can't assume that the jury, even if they decide to take the "who played the best" route and completely ignore the personal component, will choose Ali.

I can see your case for why Ali played better and I can see the case for why Jun played better. My guess is that the jury will also be able to see both sides (okay, not Dana, bless her bitter little heart!) and then will be forced to either make a decision based on style of play or on personal reasons.

Earthmother

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 05:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who cares if she's hurt? I wish someone would hurt me with $50,000. She obviously didn't play this game to win friends and influence people, she said things that hurt others and she killed innocent bugs with raid (lol) what would make her think she would get a vote? I think she's coming in 2nd whether she gets 3 votes or none and I don't think she cares about the people voting (obvious, by her comments about them) or how they vote.

Who says she has played better than Jun..I personally think Jun has played better, she hasn't made nasty comments about every player to every other player in the game. She pretty much kept her nasty comments confined to Jee and Ali's ears.

Lakegal

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 06:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Nate will vote for Alison. He never liked Jun and he has said he thinks of Ali as a sister. I also think Justin will vote for Ali. He didn't like Jun either. And Robert will probably vote for Alison for his own ego. He wants to show up on the red carpet for their movie premiere with the winner. It will mean more publicity for them and Rob wants that so badly. So he will want Alison to win.

I also think there is a good chance that Jack and Erika will think Alison deserves the win more than Jun.

People may think I'm crazy but I think there would be more chance of Jun getting no votes than Alison. I do think Jun will get a couple votes. But if everyone really wants to give it to the person they think deserves it they may just give it to Alison because she outsmarted all of them. I doubt they feel that way about Jun. They all think Jun floated to the end.

Watching2

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 07:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I know it seems obvious to most people that Dana will vote for Jun because she totally dislikes Ali. Anyone think there's any chance she might go back to what she originally said and will vote for "the person who got her evicted?" Just a thought.... :)

Caycaye

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 07:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1Mag...I am really sorry, but your predictions are so obviously tainted by your admiration and bias for Ali..that I feel like I am reading a prediction from the "Twilight Zone"...

C1mag

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 08:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thats ok Caycaye I forgive you. LMAO!

Earthmother

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 09:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jun is obviously worried about what's going to happen. I can't believe I feel sorry for her, what is wrong with me. She is sobbing right now, and Ali is working out and completely fine. I'd like to believe it's because Jun is worried about what the jury will say, and I don't think Ali cares one way or the other what they say.

Wendo

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 09:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree Earthmother. I think Jun is just cracking under the isolation. I'm sure they're having the ole doc brought in for her right about now. She'll be fine. Perhaps these last 80 days have just come crushing down?

Earthmother

Friday, September 19, 2003 - 09:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
There's the Wendo I love, disagree with me..gosh I was gettin' scared..lol