Archive through August 20, 2003
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Once again Big Brother has set out to prove that nice guys finish last.:
Archive through August 20, 2003
Marysafan | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:19 am     It is my understanding that Robert was unemployed. An offer to make $750.00 per week for the summer would have helped him put financially. Fathers do that all the time...sacrifice time with their families to make some money. Over the road truckers, sales reps, Oil riggers, engineers astronauts, construction workers, all kinds of people leave their loved ones for extended periods of time in order to make a living. Robert saw this as an opportunity to better himself. I don't fault him for that...nor do I begrudge him his emotion. Just because you make those choices...doesn't make it any easier to live with them. |
Grooch | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:23 am     Hi Mary! Long time no see. btw, I agree with you. |
Philamom | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:27 am     For the last 3 years of BB, whoever I wanted to win ended up in 3rd place. I'm expecting it to hold true for this year. I'd like to see Jack win, so I'm expecting a 3rd-place finish for him. The good news is that it means he'll make it through the next 4 weeks. The bad news is ... well, that he'll lose, LOL. |
Prisonerno6 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:37 am     "Not ONCE have I heard him talk about doing anything with his daughter if he wins." Exactly. If I thought he was there to better his daughter's life, then I would feel sympathy for him when he turned on the tears. But not once have I heard him say how he would use the $500,000 *for his daughter* -- just what he would do for himself. Go to Vegas? Was he planning on taking his daughter? Or was he just planning on saying how much he missed her while he was there? Pshaw, indeed. |
Penpoint | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:45 am     Call me cynical, but from my many decades observing people on this planet, I think the character and behavior of the HGs is pretty typical of real people. Many of us are so used to seeing one-dimensional characters on TV and in the movies--the "good" person or the "evil" one--that we forget that real people are a combination of many behaviors. Take Robert for example: Because of his insecurities he's bonded with other insecure guys and he talks really trashy about women. That's only one aspect of the guy. He's also someone who desperately wants to be liked, and I bet in a relationship he's very focused on pleasing his partner. He is very focused on his daughter and seems close to his family. As an alcoholic, he has an addictive weakness. There are times when he is sweet and honorable and likeable; at other times he shows vindictiveness and an ugly bravado. So what kind of person is he? If you take only one aspect--his trash talk on women--and call him "scum," you are not judging the complete person. So that is Robert. The other HGs also have as many facets to their personalities. I happen to like Jack, but his outwardly "sincere" and polite manner sometimes rings false. Is that an act or part of his game plan, or is it just a characteristic that he's developed over the years? Let's not forget that we are into year four of these reality shows. So anyone who is cast has learned a lot by watching previous BBs and other shows. They bring a whole set of strategies with them that previous casts did not. And as viewers, many of us still don't react favorably to the game playing that now has reached an almost professional level. Many of us are still idealistic and want the "good" character to win. But it's hard in a game where everyone is playing strategies to know who is really the "good" character. And it is difficult not to focus on the one or two characteristics that we don't like in a person. No matter who would be cast on the show--they could randomly pick the cast from this discussion board--I don't think there would be much difference. |
Grooch | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:54 am     Great post, Penpoint! Plus if Robert was really so horrible that everyone says he is, I seriously doubt his daughter's mother would have allowed her to be on tv in a tribute to him. I'm wondering that since his daughter is underage, would they FOTH him if he did talk in any detail about his daughter. |
Tdot | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:58 am     Penpoint: You hit the nail right on the head. When Erika first won HOH, the Jee3 moped around the house for a day feeling defeated. Immediately, the board was filled with people calling them hypocrites and babies. But that's what everyone has done so far when they know their time is up and they are about to get nominated. And so would everyone of us - it's human nature. |
Marymary | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:59 am     If the title of this thread is true...Robert will probably win! |
Maris | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:14 am     I have said it before the beauty pageant queen is going to win this. She came into this as she came into every competition, cutthroat and do whatever it takes to win. Ali will pull this off. She has had years of experience playing this game, sucking up to who she needs to suck up to and stabbing whoever she needs to in the back. |
Grooch | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:15 am     Maris, I am hoping for a Jun/Alli final 2. That would be so much fun to watch! |
Sherri | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:22 am     I am in total agreement with Beruthiel. At first I found myself feeling bad for Robert because he "misses" his daughter so much, but then I came to my senses. I feel bad for his daughter because she misses her dad, and because her dad CHOSE to be away from her. Nobody made Robert go on that show. He obviously wanted to go on the show, so I don't feel sorry for him at all. If my daughter was that age there is no way I would leave her for 3 months for any amount of money. I didn't cry for Robert last night; I cried for his daughter who has such a <M> for a dad. And yes, I believe Robert is as much of a <M> as he shows himself to be on the live feeds. I have never known anyone who can consistently make their opinions known in such a forceful fashion when that wasn't really what they felt deep inside. That being said, I also follow Big Brother in the UK. This year they had a house full of very nice people and their ratings tanked and hardly anyone was watching by the end. Part of the fun of the show is the tension and watching people behave badly. I would lose interest alot quicker if there were no confrontations, tension, etc., in the house. If I want that I can watch Seventh Heaven. |
Brenda1966 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:39 am     I'd like to see BB show both sides of Robert on TV, not just the crying, missing-my-kid side. Let the TV viewers see him being so disrespectful to women. I am a mother who can hardly stand to be away from my baby overnight. That said, I still don't fault Robert for going on the show and being away from his daughter. He's there earning money, and he thinks he's "earning" fame as well. Lots of people have to make sacrafices to better their lives and their families. Also, divorced parents who live in different states often have to send the kid to summer with the other parent for 2 months or more and everyone survives. I'd worry about him if he didn't miss her! She's old enough that she can be away from her dad for a few months. I had to laugh out loud too about the post above that put Roddy in the good-guy camp. Ha, ha. |
Bohawkins | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:39 am     I think that if you were to hear men in private situations you would discover that a surprising number will often be found "behaving badly" in their discussions about women with other men. There is an ongoing subject common to groups of men when they are in assured privacy which explores the premise that "women are no damn good" along with how we can best get what women have to offer with the least amount of effort and emotional or capital outlay. I have many times heard, and yes, even participated, in such conversations where women are objectified. These situations have the common characteristic that men are talking to other men in total seculsion from women. There will be a stream of flights of fancy and tales of conquest and observations about the way women think, for which if any women were in earshot, we would all be villified and pilloried. It is certainly only a locker room or club bar sort of scenario, but it is a frequent occurence, and certainly one that I have found more the rule than the exception. Now you might think I am talking about a group of uneducated, backwoods, mullet haired, NASCAR fans. No. I associate with educated, urbane, accomplished men in those situations. I find that the more wealth and education there is, and the more exclusive the environs, the more it goes on. As the situations become relaxed the discussions begin and build until they simply are not suitable for the sensitive ears of mixed company. Now these are the same guys who espouse and demonstrate a totally different stance and respect for women when in the company of ladies or children or in situations where they might be overheard. Plus, their actual real life conduct away from these scenes demonstates a higher level of character than what seems to be apparent when only the words are witnessed, live and in color, man to man. You should understand that there is present a sort of male bravado and that the tone is only partially serious, if at all. Most view these exchanges as merely conversations which explore the motivations of women with a very cynical male eye, done with a tongue in cheek style, always with room for plausible denial of one's level of seriousness. In my opinion Robert is saying no more what I have heard on many of those occasions which I have described, but he seems to forget that he is being watched on the live feeds. He just talks the way he would with the guys in one of those closed environments without women. Jack, on the other hand, never forgets that he is on camera and keeps the politically correct party line. My guess is that if Jack were "with the guys," you would hear some things about women that would also shock you. |
What555456 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:40 am     I have a drug addicted brother, and I have to agree with the comment above about how easily drug addicts can turn on the tears and how well they lie. There is always a kernal of thrugh in their lies, so someone who does notact like this always questions themselves when they accuse the addict of lying. Addicts are VERY good at lying and VERY good at playing the emotions card. The only way to really see the truth is to see what they do and say outside of when they are putting on their act. As pointed out above, Robert talks about where he wants to go once he gets out, and it is never to see his daughter. he talks about what he wants to do with the money, and it is never about his daughter. And while I know times are tough jobwise right now, the fact a father with financial obligations to his daughter was unemployed is inexcusable, expecially when he chose to go on this show and be away from his daughter for three months rather than go out, find a real job, and be there with her. |
Sasman | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:49 am     to me bb is interesting because it is an experiment. sure they pick certain types for the show, but let's face it, this is a very very unnatural environment, hence why to me it is like an experiment. people are neither all good or all bad but somewhere in between. the artificial bb environment only exacerbates the hg's traits. i for one enjoy the stuff that goes on in the house like the backstabbing and lying etc. |
Brenda1966 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:13 am     I hear you Bohawk and understand what you're saying. To lesser degree my women friends and I do a lot of male bashing when we're alone and having a girls night out. It seems BB has been willing to show Ali behaving badly, but not Robert and that's my only complaint. Show the hampsters to us, warts and all. |
Penpoint | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:18 am     Bohawkins, an excellent post. And I'd bet that women have their own twist in all-girl discussions. In fact, any group--not only gender groups--be they ethnic, social class, religious, or age-specific, will have an attitude that is not meant to be shared beyond that group. |
Penpoint | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:20 am     Brenda, I'm sure Robert's time will come. |
Squaredsc | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:23 am     great post bo, and i totally agree. ive heard men talk trash lots of times and it doesn't bother me. then again me and my friends trash talk about men. no biggie. |
Prisonerno6 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:32 am     Maybe the women I hang out with are anomolies, but we don't sit around blaming men for all the ill in the world, saying they're only looking for one thing, calling them repulsive names. Yes, occassionally one will make a crack about "The gene for the inability to ask and/or follow directions is obvious on the Y chromosome" but it isn't meant in a hurtful way, and I doubt that any man who heard it would be hurt. I doubt that many women would take kindly to Robert calling them c*nts. (Good grief. Now not only is this behavior supposed to be acceptable in Robert, it's acceptable in all men...) |
Sherri | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:32 am     good post, Bo. I question, though, whether Jack would go to the extent that Robert, Justin and Jee have gone to in their discussions. But, I attribute that to maturity and life experience, if nothing else. Sorry Mods about my screw-up! I have been good this year, though, haven't I?! |
Sherri | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:34 am     oh, and yes, when I am with my women friends, we talk trash sometimes about men, but we usually limit it to our bosses and husbands. |
Philamom | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:55 am     Prisoner, I wrote a long post yesterday about what you just said above (about women bashing men vs. men bashing women) ... but I got an error when I went to post it, lost it, and didn't feel like rewriting it. I don't know how much "female bashing" goes on in a group of all males -- obviously, once I join the group, it's no longer an all-male group. Sure, women on occasion bash men when they get together -- but not with anywhere near the frequency and intensity that I'm seeing and hearing on BB. And I don't think we're anamolies, Prisoner. I have many different groups of women friends, and I don't hear it done in any of them. Frankly, it's a little unsettling to think that men do this on a routine basis. But that's what some of these posts lead me to believe ... |
Crossfire | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 10:00 am     Most men are too busy just being ordinary people doing ordinary things to get by in life to engage in this sort of behaviour with any regular frequency. |
Chy | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 10:26 am     Great points, Bo. When I ran my own restaurant, I used to have to pretend I wasn't around when these successful, business execs or even doctors, professors tuned on the diarrhea facets. I read this whole thread real fast and type my post real slow, so please forgive me if I'm repeating some others' view. But I do think a lot of those trash talks by them guys are done in the pack mentality situation. They have bonded on that level and have the need to re-enforce the specifics a lot. I don't buy the theory that BB may have gone FOTH when Rob talks about his daughter. Even if she's minor, I think as a parent Rob could say whatever he "sees fit". Remember the way Krista went on and on (the embarrassing part even) about her daughter? BB would never had to avoid having the internet hear something IF Rob ever said things like: If I win the big bucks I will take my daughter to DisneyWorld(or whatever theme parks), buy her a baby grand piano, buy her princess bed with all matching furniture, put money away for her higher education..... I agree with many posters here too about how AS's real gaol is to get ratings. We know his background and I do recall AS talking about "observing the guests" in some interviews, but I don't believe he cares about anything but ratings with BB. It doesn't suprise me how they cast either. Just like every Saop Opera, there has to be a lot of conflicts and built-ups, fake upsets, turning and churning... Who knows, BB editors might be saving up all unfavorable Robert moments for much later in order to give the tv-only-viewers something to be suprised about and the on-line watchers sonething to feel vindicated about. Who knows? We have to wait for the fat lady to sing. (Is that the right way to use that ideom?) |
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