Archive through August 07, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: How unfair was the HOH competition?: Archive through August 07, 2003

Jagger

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
How do we know that BB knew Justin had seen that quote on her calender. My guess is that during the interview process ALL the hgs were asked a question such as what kind of an animal you would be and why. Ali put that as her answer and luckily for Justin he remembered seeing it on her calender. As I said in a different post as soon as they said the word elephant I said it was Ali and I had no advanced notice of a calender of hers.

Seamonkey

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I remember one of the early HOH comps where Erika was really upset that she went out early because she said that the questions were tailored for her. So.. even if the questions are slanted, the person also has to get to the final question to win.. or like with Dana where she won by default, which seems wrong..

Justin has a deal with Ali, so she's not going to go up.

Keiffer

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The thing that makes me wonder about the "fairness" of the question is that out of four people in the challenge still three of them put the same person, with only the person who had seen the origination of the quote getting it correct.

They might as well asked who has a tv in their living room with the brand name Sony on it?

Every other question asked left some doubt in the HG's mind if they were correct or not (except maybe the Dana one). For Justin, he was able to answer the question, and be 100% sure of the answer. While this does seem to be a slanted question it is not like the others could not have gotten it correct.

This reminds one of a compitition involving radio control cars, and a RC geek getting an advantage way back when.

Sasman

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I for one don't think that BB intentionally tried to help anyone with any of the questions.

I just think that ASP is very lazy and didn't think any of this through. The ratings are okay enough for them and they don't really care about the integrity of the game.

PLEASE CBS, FIRE THEIR A$$ES before BB5!

Maris

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why is this HOH more unfair than any other HOH competition that favored certain HGs? It is no surprise that this is how they have been set up from the beginning. Bottom line is Nathan screwed up. Nathan should have known it was Alison. She walked around with that stupid elephant for long enough. Just simple word association should have done it elephant - Ali.

What555456

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Keiffer said:

The thing that makes me wonder about the "fairness" of the question is that out of four people in the challenge still three of them put the same person, with only the person who had seen the origination of the quote getting it correct.

It struck me as odd that all of the others picked the same person. I wondered if they had been coached to do so and Justin coached to get it right.

Of course, I gave up long ago thinking that BB allows much of this game to be ruled by "reality."

Justareader

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I still think (as posted elsewhere) that they reason all the others picked david is because in the quote the elephant was referred to in the masculine pronoun of HE, thus everyone else picked david as he was the only male choice and it was a goofy dave type quote (but justin's prior knowledge gave him the edge)

Philamom

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Justareader, I read your other post about the masculine pronoun... but I couldn't remember exactly how Julie phrased the question. So I went back and watched that part again (I taped it). The question was: Who said if they could be an animal, they would be an elephant because they are the true kings of the jungle?

I think everyone just said Dave because it sounded like something Dave would say.

On another point, if everyone should have known it was Ali because she carried around the elephant, then why didn't everyone think Legally Blonde was Ali's favorite movie, since she's blonde and in law school (or applying to law school or whatever). Seems like the same type of thought process, but not everyone made that conclusion.

Spunky

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh come'on, it was so easy!!! The word "elephant" should have been a clear clue that was Ali. They're too dumb and Justin deserves the win. (although I can't stand him)

Ketil

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Here's the thing, though the other HG's could/should have figured out it was Allison by the elephant reference, Justin didn't have to reason it out on the spot. He knew 100% who the originator of the quote was, and thus he had a clear advantage.

Philamom

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spunky, I missed it. I thought the answer was Dave, too. And, I'm not a genius, but I'm far from dumb.

Charvie

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I remember earlier in the season, I think it was first week Ali telling Nathan and Jun and them about the calender and her elephant qoute. THe only ones who didn't know was Erika and Jack.

Catkey94

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Kentil, You bring up the primary point of why that competition was unfair. The other HG's had to guess at the answer (as they were supposed to), Justin knew without a shadow of a doubt what the answer was without having to guess because of his previous relationship with Ali, and that wasn't fair to the other HGs. It would have been a fair competition if they had left Alison out of it, and there was really no reason to include her in the questioning because she hadn't been evicted yet.

Gina8642

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't know if it was caught on the LFPs or not, but I saw Allie talking about it. Allie said that that is EXACTLY what I wrote down. Nate has said (repeatedly) if only the question said - who likes elephants? - he could have got it right. But Allie said, but the quoted it exactly as I wrote it. (or something to that effect). So Allie is the one the used the masculine word 'king'.

Anyway, if reference to all of the supposed 'coaching'. How 'cum the HGs can't keep quiet about ANYTHING in this show, yet the DR telling them all to do something gets zero mention? Keep in mind too, those still in the contest could not see what the others were picking, so they couldn't deliberately choose the same as another.

Was the contest tailor made to Justin? Perhaps, but I think the elephant question should have made people think of Allie, at least a bit. Legally Blond was as much of a trick question as the elephant question.

Bohawkins

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Justareader was correct in her mention of a masculine reference in the quote. While it wasn't a "pronoun," obviously a King is a male reference. David would have more logically thought of as a King and Amanda, Ali or Erika in the Queen role.

So, it was perhaps a case of misdirection. Maybe it was one of those kind of questions where if you are too intelligent you miss it. I took an intelligence test once and one of the questions was to complete the sentence "Wisdom is knowing what to do next; ______ is doing it." I recognized this as an Oscar Wilde quote with the answer of "virtue." One of the other choices was "sanity." I figured that sanity was a more intelligent answer, but I knew how culturally biased these tests are (no questions about rap lyrics) so I answered virtue. Turned out my guess was correct, but what did that show? Who knows?

Justin may have just been too stupid to think about the masculine reference and just thought about the blue elephant.

Justareader

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Phila/Bo Thanks Bo I was just gonna post the same thing about the masculine thing. I had to download Lawyerman's mp3 as electricity went out - my vcr lost programming and I forgot to tape... I just remembered it being a masculine reference. and elephants are not in the jungle (nor lions) the are on savannahs...stupid quote anyway IMO.
well - it is a big 'whatever' in my book at this point can we all still be friends? as i sheepishly grin and shrink back out of the way...

Philamom

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
No reason to grin sheepishly and shrink back out of the way, Justareader ... I didn't remember exactly what Julie said til I watched it again. When I read your first post about the masculine pronoun, I thought "Gee, that's a good point." It still is a good point, but it would have been even better if Julie had actually used the word "he," LOL. :)

Realtvfan

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Competitions have been designed and ordered to favor certain HGs since week 2 of BB2. Some of the competitions have been much more blatently slanted than others. The list of suspect competitions just grows one larger every other week.

Even Jeff Probst from Survivor publicly admitted that the competitions during Survivor:Thailand were changed during the 39 days of the game to benefit the older team. This is because the original games designed for Survivor:Thailand were too physical.

If you saw Survivor:Thailand, every time the Survivor producers needed the older team to win a competition for a competitive game, the producers used a mental (rather than a physical) challenge. The opposite held true for the younger team as well.

Jeff P. could not state that publicly without permission from the CBS legal team. Especially with the Stacy lawsuit, etc...

If you would prefer, think of BB challenges the way I enjoy following along. In addition to the competition itself, I also enjoy the aspect of the game contemplating what probably occured in the producer's office during the week prior to each competition as the producers would be required to submit all the activities (and especially all the competition questions) to the CBS legal team for approval. This is done to be certain that the producers can try to affect the outcome of the competition for rating purposes, while at the same time preserving the legally supported basis for the competitions to prevent future lawsuits.

Survivor:Africa taught CBS what happens when very poor questions are used. $100,000 extra must then be paid to prevent future legitimate lawsuits.

I just sit back and try to imagine the conversations that must have taken place in the office between the CBS legal team and the BB2 producers during the prior week. This is because every activity and every question would be subject to CBS legal team approval.

By the way, there are instances where the producer's slant works, as well as instances where perceived producer's slants have failed.

Bmh

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes this is ridiculous..Some of you act like this is a horible crime that the HOH was slanted for Justin to win in one way or another...When we all know that the majority of all HOH challenges are slanted/fixed...sure the person BB wants to win doesn't always win but it does happen sometimes..

Just because Justin won and the "fan favorites" Jack and Erika didn't doesn't mean its all of a sudden a huge odasity that the HOH was fixed... *rolls eyes*

Personally I am glad Justin won for the entertainment aspect for BB4...I don't get why everybody is supporting Jack and Erika when they are clearly the most boring individuals in the house

Seamonkey

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Justin also knew that Shrek was Ali's favorite movie, so he was helped there as well. And being close to Dana helped as well.

Jack and Erika have chosen to be more isolated and did it long enough that when they later tried to be chummy with others, well Erika anyway, she was frozen out.

Justareader says: ... I just remembered it being a masculine reference. and elephants are not in the jungle (nor lions) the are on savannahs...stupid quote anyway IMO.

and i totally agree :)

Remember Ali is the one whose motto is

WINNER is IRWIN spelled backwards, when that is clearly NIWRI :)

Seanflynn2003

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Would somebody backing a conspiracy theory please explain why a HOH winner whose nominations are likely predictable, with the evicted HG pretty obvious, possibly leading to a really boring rest of the show, helps BB?

Maris

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
speaking as someone who subscribes to the "nudge" theory i.e BB doesn't decide the winner but does give people a little advantage which they will or will not capitalize on.

Lets take the luxury competition. They wanted a male/female dinner they didn't care who got it so the best thing was to set something up that might benefit the women. There is a dancer and there is a skater - jump to the spinning chair. Ali wins it which is piece of luck for BB.

Last weeks competition, I truly do believe that the tubes of the previous weeks nominees (Jack and Alison) were made just a tad, a tad wider as someone mentioned a la carnival game. It made for better television. BB always likes the HOH to come down to a battle between two people, and what better than the two previous nominees vindicating themselves.

In this weeks HOH competition, every person filled out an application form and it is not the first time that BB based a competition on who said what on their application. The very first competition was a who is what and who said what. Nothing new. I truly believe that BB thought it would be fun to have a Justin/Nathan tiebreaker and that is how they nudged that one, the ex boyfriend and current boyfriend. They didnt care who won but that is what they wanted. The fact is that Nathan never listens to anyone, doesnt observe anyone except himself in the mirror and totally blew it. My kid guessed Alison on that one based on the elephant. So he blew it for himself and also blew it for BB who was planning a tiebreaker on live tv. The HOH competition is set to take place in the last ten minutes of the show and is structured for good television. They want a good TV. They dont care what actually happens in the coming week or necessarily who wins the show.

I think they are hoping for two exes on the block which ones they dont care.

Kellirippa

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know, I've been with my hubby for 15 years now, he doesn't know what the heck is on my calendar or what my favorite movie is...He'd probably be stumped if somebody asked him what color my eyes are... I don't think Justin was at any particular advantage...HE'S A MAN

Bohawkins

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok, here is the real story for you.

As we prepare to go to war with North Korea, America sees need to improve citizen relations with Korean US citizens and green-carded South Koreans so that the US won't be faced with some kind backlash towards our resident Koreans once we start droppping the bombs over there.

In order to achieve that, our masters have engineeered a situation to let us come to know Koreans in a good light, so that the rest of us can relate to them as intelligent, caring and giving people.

The script was written so that we saw Jee first positioned as someone we wanted to throw out because he was just a bitter nasty person with a bad haircut. We saw Jun as somewhat of a self absorbed girl of loose morals. We were happy to see Jee up for eviction and we hoped Jun would follow right behind. Later when Jee was HOH, Erika referred to Jee as "A Korean piece of crap" and "F-ing immigrant." CBS aired these comments, just barely bleeping the F word.

But gradually we saw them change, and therefore our perception of them has changed, so that we see Jee as the loving man devoted to his mother and sister and the memory of his father, with respect for religion and tradition. We also see him as funny and good natured and able to get along wonderfully with the hispanic man and the average white boy. The ex soldier learned to love Jee and exited from the scene as we began to perceive that Jee was no longer a threat. The departing soldier was greeted by a fellow soldier in battle fatigues, ready to go take care of the bad Koreans. Even Jack, the govenmental authority figure who first identified Jee as dangerous now has new respect and love for him.

Jun is the caregiver, the provider of delicious food to the house, changing even her appearance by gaining weight to become the earth mother. She is loyal to her old boyfriend Jee keeping the pledge she made to his dying father. We now find that she has a mysterious current, evidently anglo, boyfriend, named Bob, whom she loves so much she cries for him. I can speculate on the reason Blacks were left out of the casting in relation to the Korean situation but for me that would require more careful consideration prior to discussion.

It is no coincidence that the presenter, Julie Chen is a Korean as well. As the show continues we realize that Koreans are lovable people too (sort of like us, but in a sort of quaint way).

This just brings us one step closer so that America is able to go to war with North Korea without having fear US citizens creating a backlash against Koreans living here.

This conjectural concept should be developed with some more thought (especially as the story changes), but I think that if we understood all about the propaganda machine we would be amazed and appalled and this idea would not be "beyond the pale."

Maris

Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And that is why Colin Powell is quitting!!!!! lol