Robert's reaction
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Robert's reaction
Tishala | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 03:42 pm     NO--the example was that it can be used as the title of a TV show, not that it can be used by "anyone"; in fact, "That doesn't mean if some shorts [shouts, I assume] queer at me that it is acceptable." Indeed. I guess i don't understand the dichotomy between claiming that queer can be both hate speech and OK among LGBT/friends on the one hand and saying that the N word can be both prohibited and accepted on the other. It looks like the first group is trying to have their rhetorical canke and eat it, too, while the latter group is denied that possibility. JMHO |
Watching2 | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 03:45 pm     I have to say that as a younger person, I used the word "retarded" and "queer" (didn't know what it really meant!) to refer to things which were stupid. The thing is, it really bothered my MOM because I had an uncle with Down Syndrome. Now you would think I would have been more sensitive? Nope. I used to tell my mom, "they're just words." People don't mean anything by it the way you're thinking. And I was right, even though it was offensive to some people. Since if someone made fun of a retarded or Down Syndrome person, I would get really angry and in their face about it. It made a difference to me whether they were just using a word to mean "dumb, stupid, weird" or if they were actually attacking someone because of their appearance of the way they spoke, etc. I have to admit my kids do use the word "gay" in that way, but since I know they all have gay friends, and we have their gay friends in the house all the time and they use the words right in front of them, I know they don't mean it in a bad way. Still, I do remind them when they're friends aren't here, it's not a great choice of words. Yeah, they roll their eyes at me, but mainly because they know it's one of my "causes" and they know I've traveled and taken to the street for that cause. My now 19-yr-old went with me to one event when she was 16. She actually got extra credit for reporting on what we did for her global studies class, since I took her out of school several days to go with me. How could a teacher not love that their student was one among some of the civil rights leaders who were now standing up in the fight for gay people? Yes, I'm talking Yolanda King, Arun Gandhi, James Lawson, Phil Lawson, among many others! It was a pretty incredible experience for both of us. |
Jhezzie | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 04:54 pm     This isn't a Hallmark kind of world. Yeah, it would be nice if everyone could just hug and smile and skip off to work, but it ain't that way. Birds of a feather, you know? Something is said every day, about everyone, that can be offensive. Get over it. If I took the junk hurled at me on a regular basis to heart and got all wounded over it, the words would have more power than I do. That ain't gonna happen. I learned to let most of it go. I say "most" because I'm a mere mortal. However, I get more annoyed at the p.c. police than anyone hurling insults. I don't like to be told what I can say. I have my own moral compass. I have parents who taught me to treat people like I want to be treated. I too, get pissed and say things that are mean. Again, human. I also find humor in dark places. I guess it's growing up listening to Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Bill Cosby too, for balance, lol. Anyway, lighten up, sweeties. Robert's still a jerk and life goes on. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:11 pm     Jhezzie - I don't think anyone is trying to say what words Robert (or any other HG) can say....this isn't a PC thing IMHO. He is welcome to use all the slurs he wants, and I am not saying that he shouldn't have the freedom to do so. I'm just saying that after hearing him refer to women the way he does, I have formed the opinion that he has no respect for women. If Robert wants to further solidify his reputation for having a misogynist outlook on life by continuing to refer to women in the basest of terms....he's perfectly welcome to do so. Of course, even though I would not try and have him arrested for being so crude, I would also never introduce him to my sister, nor would I hire him to work with women!  |
Twiggyish | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:12 pm     Believe it or not the average person doesn't use those words in normal conversation. In fact, it would be considered rude in some circles. |
Jhezzie | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:45 pm     ITA about Robert, SanFran...<sd> He doesn't like women at all. I guess I was unclear. |
Twiggyish | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:48 pm     Perhaps I should say in considered rude amongst the rest of North America? (Not everyone uses street slang) Cricket said: "Since he has no regard for women, I'm beginning to wonder how he got along with his mother. I've only heard him talk about his Dad and his brother. Has he said much about his mother?" I wonder about that, too. |
Cangaroo | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:58 pm     I agree with both Jhezzie and Sanfranjoshfan...get over it, but at the same time, people are going to be that way no matter what...and if they want to use those words, let them (because there's really not anything the rest of us can do about it anyway but ignore them) because it just shows what type of person they are from the get-go. I figure at least I know that's not the type person i want to spend my time with. Robert has portrayed himself to be misyognistic. Allison and Nathan have portrayed themselves to be very closed minded in regards to other races and sexual orientions as has NEARLY ALL the rest of the HGs...they are all humans who grew up with all the misconceptions about people different than themselves that a lot of us grew up with, so yeah, they're gonna slip and say something really stooooopid. And, to top it all off, when it's taken out of context it can be made into something even more vile. Personally, I like seeing peoples foibles, that way I know if this is a person I want to take the time to get to know (and Robert is definitely NOT one of them), or someone that I find interesting and sincere. Same goes the other way...if people don't like what they see in me or hear from me, they have the same choice, "warts" and all. People who truly do watch every little thing they say are very often dull. IMHO. |
Pantageas | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:15 pm     *NEWSFLASH* The HGs for BB4 all appear to be self-absorbed, self-important, narcissistic lay-abouts who seem to think they are all smarter/prettier/better than all the rest of the homo sapiens on the planet, and constantly look for justifications for them to rationalize that they are. Why is anyone suprised at ANYTHING these people say or do? Or better yet, why bother with "HG X is better than HG Y" threads? Who's the better person Mussolini or Idi Amin? Who's the better group Nazi Germany or the Khmer Rouge? Sheesh!! |
Cangaroo | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:16 pm     EXACTLY |
Mizinvanccouver | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:21 pm     Howdy all....just got in and looks like we all need a few BELLINIS!! LOL Isn't the point of this site to ponder all these thoughts about BB? *Please don't hurt me with words!!! KIDDING!*
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Costacat | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:28 pm     Hi Miz, Apparently, only certain pondering is allowed. But if you want a bellini... here you go. Bellini for Miz! |
Wendo | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:28 pm     "Why is anyone suprised at ANYTHING these people say or do? Or better yet, why bother with "HG X is better than HG Y" threads?" No one is surprised by what the HG's say. Most of us have been watching BB since BB1. However, since this IS a discussion board, we do like to discuss the HG's and how they're playing the game. Why bother with why one HG is better than another? Because, again, we're discussing the show on a board that is specifically for discussing Big Brother. Think that pretty much explains it. |
Mizinvanccouver | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:31 pm     Thanks Costa! Cheers!  |
Mizinvanccouver | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:41 pm     Well said Wendo...my thoughts exactly. That's why I come here. |
Widowswalk | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:56 pm     Certain pondering? Now that's funny and very true. |
Kmjm | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:05 pm     Costa, I need one of those bellinis! Please! |
Bohawkins | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:19 pm     Yes, Wendo, you have summarized it. We all know the show is mindless. We understand that this is purely escapist fare. However, that is part of what I enjoy about it, and also what I enjoy about the board. I have a full agenda of serious topics in my life. Big Brother lets me slip away into an alternate universe. I get real enjoyment from considering the ponderings of the houseguests and I find pleasure in talking to friends who also follow the show about these people and their decisions, pretending just for a moment that all this matters. Not for a moment do I think this is of any consequence, but for a few times during the day when I do play with it, I ponder what those houseguests are saying and thinking as though they are important to me. It's great fun. Alternatively, I will tell you that there is something valuable about it. I actually learn from the experience. That scenario in the cage the other night was classic. The sequence of events and human interactions in that space of six hours gave me information that perhaps I will use for the rest of my life. |
Lancecrossfire | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:24 pm     Bo--I have learned things at every turn from BB, AR, Mole and Survivor I will use the rest of my life. Some little things, some a bit bigger. What was it you picked up during the cage match that you feel will be so useful? Or maybe this is topic for a new thread? |
Widowswalk | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:25 pm     It was Costacat and me that mentioned "only certain pondering" being allowed. LMAO |
Mizinvanccouver | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:27 pm     Hmmmm....that's pretty profound Bohawkins. I'm curious what you learned....did you post it in another thread? --Mods you can take this out after...I know it's off the topic. |
Kmjm | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:41 pm     I like your way of thinking, Bohawkins. |
Bohawkins | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:49 pm     You know, Miz and Lance, I thought about writing a detailed essay about what happened that night, but I decided that instead of an interesting discussion thread it would merely be a very long singular posting. I watched it with a couple of guys who by happenstance were over to my place after playing tennis, one of whom had not ever seen Big Brother. They hadn't planned to stay, just dropped in for a drink. Big Brother came on the telly and afterward I cranked up the live feeds on my computer. They stayed for the duration. We were all spellbound. We subsequently had quite a discussion about it. One guy made the comment that the entire cage sequence was some of the best television he had ever witnessed. We talked about it until the sun came up. I may yet write up those observations. |
Bohawkins | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:51 pm     |
Lancecrossfire | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:00 pm     If you start a thread about it (so this one can stay on topic), I'm sure it will not be just you posting! |
Tobor7 | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:04 pm     Bo said-- "Alternatively, I will tell you that there is something valuable about it. I actually learn from the experience. That scenario in the cage the other night was classic. The sequence of events and human interactions in that space of six hours gave me information that perhaps I will use for the rest of my life. " I couldn't agree more. If I don't take something away from ANY experience, then I feel like I wasted my time. I watch these HGs as a science experiment that I enjoy. I try to understand them as best I can, in in so doing-- understand myself all the more. If I am wrong, then there is no price to pay. Equally, the reactions of the people on this board are interesting. The better you can read people, understand what they do and why they do it--- the better you will be in all aspects of life. I talked about this in many ways last year in my "Game... not a game..." thread that I have been considering starting again this year. Bo--- please put some of your thoughts down in a new thread about the cage contest. I'll bet you get a better participation than you imagine. I for one will have some insights as well-- although I am still trying to figure out WHY some things were NOT done in the cage-- and why Justin didn't WATCH his people more. Come on Bo. We really do want to hear it! |
Cangaroo | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:05 pm     I'm sure he would not be the only one posting. I am amazed at how sensitive people get...sometimes it's fun just to take the opposing view to spark a good debate...from good debate many point are brought up that one doesn't often think of on their own or it spark even further thought. I admit, I often take the opposite viewpoint just to get someone's "dander up" to try and get a good convo going, only to find people get very touchy (my apologies to the ones who've taken me so seriously). |
Seamonkey | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:20 pm     I would be interested in those observations. I don't even know what Robert said about Erika after she nominated him, but I can easily imagine. Consider the invective he spews against Jun and Ali, two women he has known for less than two months, and the admitted fact (by Erika AND Robert) that they had a rocky breakup, one couldn't expect less from him than spewing hatred. I know Erika is well-liked but wonder if, prior to her "emergence" in the last 10 days or so, much of the "good" came from her apparently sweet and loyal alliance to Jack AND in contrast to her EX, Robert. I think now we are seeing a more real Erika and, no surprise, she has warts, just like everyone else in there She's plotted agains her own alliance, even Jack, she's kept information from Jack for, as far as I know, the first time. For the first time she's flirting, more with Justin but also with Robert and Jee. No big deal. Not counting Jack, who is off the radar age-wise in this bunch, Robert and Erika are the two oldest in the house, by 5 years (both being 33, Dana being 28 and Jun turning 28 in the house) and I don't see them as role models (and yes, they aren't there to be role models). From the feeds it is clear that Robert can spew venom more corrosive than battery-acid and he can also turn on the charm, not just with Jee when he supports Jee when Jee is emotional but even with women.. while I wouldn't want to see Robert as a therapist, he DOES actually give people a place to vent when he wants to be charming. Erika has often talked about Robert's ability to sell ANYTHING and his charm and for a long time I thought she was deluded, how could this guy EVER be charming? Well.. he's doing it, now, and to her.. more and more they are talking about old times and going salsa dancing etc. And while I suspect Erika would say that is ridiculous, only strategy, her voice and body language IS more receptive, just as when she gets flirty with Justin and offers to help when he comes to CA and wants to see him too. And he's done that charm thing from time to time on the other women. Robert's misogynistic statements are quite disturbing. Erika's remarks about Jee, which were mean and racist, her remarks about Dana and others are also disturbing and we can all appreciate that there is biased editing but we can't say what anyone has said in the DIARY ROOM except what has been shown, so while we may be convinced that Robert's DR entries are being cleaned up, we KNOW that Erika did say what was shown from the Diary room.. Other than them both being 33, it does no good to compare them anyway, other than to say that they each had unfortunate reactions to being nominated. |
Widowswalk | Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:46 pm     While I agree, any racist remarks are disturbing, when I compare Erika and Jack to the rest, they are the least hard to take. As for any "D" woman remarks Erika may have made I can only say , good for her. Erika at some point turning on Jack is not surprising as it is a game. I would think they will all have to turn at some point. |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:33 am     Bo? Dude? Where are you? |
Twiggyish | Monday, August 18, 2003 - 05:16 pm     Bo, I'd like to read that, too. |
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