Archive through August 20, 2003
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Once again Big Brother has set out to prove that nice guys finish last.:
Archive through August 20, 2003
Darkmutton | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:00 am     I just heard Robert and Justin talking on the live feed about the wisdom of going on this show. If he it to do over, he wouldn't. He said he is happy with his life and likes his job and is making good money. I don't know what "good money" is, but it doesn't sound like he is there for the $750 a week... |
Beruthiel | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 11:51 am     Perhaps the women we see on TV shows, such as Sex in the City, talk like men do when in 'locker room' situations, but in real life, I've never ever heard a group of women, no matter how indebriated, talk about men in as ugly a fashion as these men have about women. If Bohawkins is correct, then it's very sad that men can only bolster their egos by putting down others, and makes me wonder if the battle of the sexes will ever become a truce. I'd like to point out that I am quite sure that none of these people are all bad. Like all of us, they are an amalgam of many traits, and each will have good and bad facets to their personalities, but I have to compare those I see in the house to what I've experienced in life, and in several cases, and in every season, those in the house have come across as badly as anyone I could ever have imagined. I also appreciate that this is a TV show meant to entertain and garner interest, but my argument was and is this year, that it says very little that's positive about US, the viewers, if we don't watch unless we get to see people behaving badly, or strife and controversy. What an indictment. Do we have to crowd around crash scenes, or harass folks who have the bad luck to be caught up in some scandal, because of our prurient curiosity? My complaint this season has always been that the producers of the show are catering to the lowest common denominator, and pandering to what's mean in us. Because Robert and Erika apologising to each other sincerely revealed a better side to both of them, I felt that that scene, rather than Robert's maudlin soliloquy in the DR, was worth watching. It made me feel better about both of them. Many times, what we are witness to in the house makes me feel like a grubby voyeur, watching mankind at his worst. There's no real pleasure in watching people express their weaknesses, and it diminishes the viewer. The show sadly lacks the calibre of Lord of the Flies, or Brave New World, and the producers have perverted Orwell's concept into dross. Once again, it has been hinted that if you don't like it, why not go and watch something more to your liking? Sorry, but I had the idea that Big Brother could be, and has been, a fascinating window on humanity. I've learnt something from every other BB. Most of all, that there are people who amaze me, in both the positive and negative sense, and whom I'd never have known existed if BB hadn't occurred. I cling to the hope that perhaps we'll see something more accurate and fair before the season ends, and that perhaps we'll see these folks doing something that would make me glad that I'd been there as a witness, and so I keep watching, but my hope is wearing thin, as the weeks go by. We are all here to exchange ideas and opinions with others who are interested in the BB concept, and that's all I'm trying to do, so it is rather unfair to imply that I should 'go elsewhere' simply because mine differ. |
Wendo | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:08 pm     Grooch said, "Maris, I am hoping for a Jun/Alli final 2. That would be so much fun to watch!" Me too!!!!!! It would be SO difficult to figure out who would win! So much fun to watch! LOL! |
Spunky | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:21 pm     I actually feel sorry for his daughter... it looks to me as if she has to be the one who will feel the burden of a father like Robert in coming years. The way Robert kept saying: "She's all I have, all I have" and God forbid if she will ever let him down... I can't think what he will do then.... shudder... |
Kellirippa | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:33 pm     the basic BB concept is based on catching you with your gaurd down, no? The truth is when your gaurd is down, PC goes out the window. We just find it distasteful, because we're using it for our entertainment, and we're used to carefully scripted, politically correct, please the sponsors television. That's likely why Robert's comments are left out of the TV show. Robert likely is a jerk, but you'd probably be surprised at how big a jerk your nice neighbor or your kids math teacher appeared to be if you were watching them on a 24/7 live feed. |
Kellirippa | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:49 pm     ...oh and, Lisa seemed pretty nice last year, and she finished first.. |
Chy | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:54 pm     Beruthiel, yes, we are all here to express & exchange ideas. Don't pay attention to the ones who suggest you to go watch something else. They could listen to themselves and go read some one else's posts then. I don't know how to say things eloquently with this language that's not my mother-tongue, just like to make sure Beruthiel do not feel bad. I had felt that on other boards before, it's a very horrible feeling. |
Sherri | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:58 pm     Beruthiel - I always enjoy reading your posts, so don't worry about the narrow-minded people who can't deal with people who have opinions that differ from their own. |
Maris | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:59 pm     I am with you guys an Ali Jun finish would be great. |
Denecee | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:07 pm     Just want to insert one thing after reading bb4_fan's first post on this thread. Some people don't think that Roddy from bb3 played an honest game. That's all I will say about that. |
Prisonerno6 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:12 pm     I gotta wonder...it seems like Robert's name-calling of women is being given a "boys will be boys" slide. I wonder what the reaction would be if he was sitting around using the "N" word for African-Americans or referring to Asians as "chinks" or "slant-eyes" if he would be given the same pass. I'm sure there are groups of white males* who sit around and do just that, so it must be OK if Robert did it. *And they're called the Klan... |
Philamom | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:21 pm     As before, I agree with you, Prisoner. |
Sherri | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:27 pm     Roddy and the word honesty together just makes me laugh out loud |
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:28 pm     Well, I've known women who get together and talk about guys (specific ones and men in general) much the same way Bo mentioned. I've heard them here at work over the course of 13 years. So it does happen both ways. No6 (I loved The Prisoner TV show!!), I believe we'd have a war on the board if the same comments were made about any race in the same manner that Robert makes comments about women. I in no way feel what Robert says is ok--it bothers me a lot actually. And it isn't just white males who feel racist towards other ethnic groups--although people seem to have a really tough time admitting and/or saying that. |
Mlt | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:29 pm     Wow! I didn't know that Robert was really the norm for how men talk about us when we aren't around. It's kind of scary. |
Widowswalk | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:36 pm     Beruthiel, the title of the show "Big Bother" does not refer to man's human kindness. It is an old term for the unseen eyes of government. "Big Bother is watching you" ( ie-so be careful) is an old saying and was brought back to life via Arnie, the producer. The idea being that you will be watched 24/7. There are many things in this world that I wonder about but BB is not one of them. JMO |
Phoebemonica28 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:53 pm     I think Kellirippa made a good point: anyone whose actions and words were televised 24/7 for any length of time would eventually come across in a negative light. Maybe we wouldn't wash our hands after using the restroom. Maybe we'd drink too much and spill family secrets on national television. Maybe we'd use words or phrases that seemed commonplace to us but were insulting to those around us (or those watching). BUT IT DOESN'T EXCUSE IT. It doesn't excuse it at all. Cruel is cruel, whether it's scripted or impromptu, faked or genuine. But I do think it is a good point to remember that any of us would, I'm sure, wind up being offensive in some way to someone (or some group), if we were filmed long enough. (Heck, even if you're being "PC" you'll end up offending someone sooner or later!) I guess that's all just part of human nature; you can't please all the people all of the time. I just wish that some HG's would seem like they cared about the effect their words have (like Robert's terms for women and their eventual affect on his daughter). You would never be able to prevent offending anyone entirely, but I'd like to see people try a LITTLE bit sometimes, you know? I try to remember the comments or actions that I found particularly cruel and/or offensive when I saw them on TV or the LF, and I hope that it makes such an impression on me that I won't ever wind up doing the same sort of thing in my life. (Famous last words, right?) Anyway... this was definitely one of those posts that seemed so well formed in my head, and just refused to come out onto the screen in an orderly fashion! You know what I mean?! |
Prisonerno6 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:59 pm     "So it does happen both ways." I'm sure it does -- I just question whether it's the norm. That seems to be the argument given forth to excuse Robert's bashing of women, that it's the way men behave when they get together. I think that's a sad commentary on men if it's true. I just have a very hard time understanding the double standard that brands Erika a racist on the basis of one comment and yet excuses a plethora of ongoing derogatory comments from Robert just because boys will be boys. |
Scorpiomoon | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 02:13 pm     Lancecrossfire: With all due respect, I have seen you mention your female co-workers and the manner in which they talk about men in other posts you have written over the weeks. While I understand that, based on your experiences, this happens, I take exception to you implying that your co-workers behavior is the norm amongst women. It's not. And believe me, if I were working in your office I'd tell these fellow women to shut the hell up. Some people--including women--do try and live by the "Do onto others..." rule and do have respect for men. |
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 02:34 pm     scropiomoon--not at all saying all women are that way because the half dozen or so that have been--just commenting it does happen both ways the way Bo described. There are no absolutes when it comes to human behvior--lol. |
Mlt | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:29 pm     Actually, the more I think about this idea that Robert is just being a normal guy in his comments about women, the more bothered I become. Statistics say that fifty per cent of all women will be sexually abused at some point in their lives. I find myself wondering if there is a connection. Also, Robert has gone beyond just words in his attitude towards women. He had said that he has cheated on every woman he has ever dated. In my opinion, that attitude in this HIV rich environment is not only disrespectful, but down-right dangerous. (Just my opinion, of course) |
Penpoint | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:30 pm     Robert isn't the "norm" for all men in the way he talks about women. There is a vast range of the way men (or any other distinct group) talk when they are in a select group. It totally depends on the chemistry of the individuals who make up the group. The point is that when individuals participate in defined groups--ethnic, religious, gender, racial, and such--they talk differently than they do when they are in "mixed" groups. This is reality. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It just is. |
Kellirippa | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:43 pm     ...so we have the men here telling us that there are many men, that in all male group situations may act and speak in a way that could shock the women that know them, and we have the women arguing that that doesn't happen?? |
Wendo | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:52 pm     I have to say, the argument that women speak the same way about men when alone just doesn't wash with me. If that were true, then wouldn't we be listening to Erika, Jun, and Ali just raking men over the coals? Erika calling all men c*cks*ckers, degrading men, and the like. However, haven't heard anything even remotely similar to the type of language that comes out of Robert's mouth. Robert is unique unto his own. When Justin and Jee are not around him, they speak better as well. But when they're together, they get almost as bad. Basically, imo, most men, and women, do not speak of the opposite sex as negatively as Robert has these past several weeks in the BB house. |
Widowswalk | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:53 pm     I'm a woman and I say if you are going to spend your life as a woman being shocked and outraged then you will miss an awful lot. Nobody is going to force you to listen or put up with the Roberts of the world. Have a drink and chill. Sheesh! |
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