Justin will take the heat off them...
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Justin will take the heat off them...
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Archive through August 17, 2003 25   08/17 05:32pm

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
As long as Jee is in the house with Justin, I don't think he would let Jus stab Jun in the back. And I don't think Jus would unless it was cool with Jee.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Justin and Ali would only take each other. Justin out of obligation and knowing he would definitely win and Ali being sure that she was the last female standing.

I disagree with ya Sean. You have given Justin to much credit for some lousy game play. He holds no more power to suggest a final vote than anyone else. Jack will probably be sequestered as well and be singing the praise of both of the final two and he brings a lot of rational thought when everyone is out in left field. So both finalists will get some credit with little vote loading.

I DEFINITELY think justin would violate a promise to Jun via using Ali. Keep him in the game and he's in the game for Justin not for Jun. Justin will protect Ali all the way to the end because she is a sure bet to beat in the finals and in the process she can get rid of Jee and Jun both for him.

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think you overestimate Ali's influence over Justin and underestimate his relationship with Jee. If Ali says get rid of Jun and Jee says keep Jun, Justin is going to do what Jee says, because he trusts Jee much more.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jee let justin stab Jun in the back? There is a way without it looking like he did it. Hand Ali hoh and let her do the dirty work. Besides Jee has already heard both his buds say they want Jun out at different times.

Widowswalk

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ty Wendo

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If Alison wins HoH, she's taking out Jee, not Jun. Her chances of winning in the end are much greater against Jun.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think you underestimate Ali's influence on Justin and are really over playing his new found friendship with a stranger called Jee. Don't forget that Jee didn't exactly keep his buddy to safe from eviction this week. All Justin has to do is say... "Sorry man. I'm so sorry buddy. I tried my hardest. I was in pain man. I tried." Just like his good buddy jee did. This is a game and if Justin gets back in there Ali will make him play. She's full of fire and she will have that mans number if he stays. She will direct him towards the finish line and hide behind him the entire time. Jun knows this. Get him out now or suffer for it later.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Keep believing that Stro that she will target Jee. Her prime target is miss jun. She wants her out so bad she can taste it. She just needs a little help and a deal with Erika and jack if she did get the next hoh. She will say Jee is no contest for next hoh but Jun may be. We gotta get Jun out now. She will put up Jee and say he is the obvious target and lie to Jun that she is the pawn then the vote comes down and Jun is gone. Rob obviously votes her out and after some thinking and a deal with Ali so would Erika and Jack.

Seanflynn2003

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1
You are making my case for keeping Justin in. Part of the deal Jun would have to make is getting Allison to agree in front of Justin and her. This would be one of the key moments of the game. The entire jury would ultimately know about it. And Jun would need to tell Justin she needs to hear him tell Allison that if she breaks this deal, all bets are off, and that he would vote for Jun against her in the finals.
I guess what I am saying is that I don't know that you are wrong at all, but I think you are describing the options in far too black and white a situation.

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I was talking about under the scenario where Jus, Ali, Jun, and Jee are the final four and Ali was the next HoH, she would target Jee.

Twiggyish

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Does Justin even have a strategy? He does seem to be able to make deals, but we never really see him with a strategy.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OH my god! Alis word face to face would be trusted? hahahahahaha Everyone already knows her word face to face means nothing... and I quote from Ali to Jack, Erika, and Nate on the eve of her nominations while in the hoh.. " I SWEAR it is Justin. Justin will go. Justin will be nominated" The following day the man didn't even get nominated. The house already knows she's a full on liar and she lies to their faces. That deal will mean nothing to Jun. Jun will run to Erika so fast to tell her what Ali promised and Erika will say... I've had that same verbal promise before from Ali and it means nothing trust me. If anything it supports my idea to lose him.

Why at the last minute would they pull such a performance and together for that matter? There they are together in front of her promising her EVERYTHING! They are showing her they are a team and in that team is the biggest liar who has already tried this game before and screwed a dude right out the door. No way would Jun buy this crapfest. It smells of pathetic and it's an insult to her intelligents. They are saying.. we are a team. Yeah right she's gonna buy that. LOL

Stro Ali will target Jun before Jee unless it's final three.

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Ali is very intimidated by Justin. The reason she didn't nominate him, or his two friends, was because she was scared he would come after her the next week. She wouldn't make such a bold face lie to him and get rid of Jun, knowing he and Jee would come after her the next week.

Seanflynn2003

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The stakes would be far higher, it would be her word to Justin, keeping it this time could redeem previous crosses; it would have to be a judgment call on Jun's part, but yes, I believe there are circumstances where Alison would be trusted.

And your saying that Alison is targeting Jun justs adds to the case for trying to find some way to neutralize her. With Justin not there, Rob certainly isn't going to control her. I think there is a chance Justin could, particularly if Allison sees it as a chance to get through the next two weeks.

I have dealt with untrustworthy and lying people all my life in business; the key to success is finding ways to get them to keep their word, which usually comes from making them see it is in their own short term interest. No one can lie all the time, and I have found that people who have a reputation for lying, particularly when the stakes are high, can be more trustworthy than the run of the mill word keeper.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
and you are also suggesting that by forcing ali to verbalize a deal face to face would make her think that someone on the jury wouldn't give her the grandprize? Like she cares! She has at least 50k and the bragging rights that she screwed them all over by lying. And in Alis world if she gets what she wants she may just end up in the finals with a person she thinks she can beat so who cares if she doesn't get his vote. LOL

If you want Jun to have an easier road in figuring out how to stay in the game as I suspect that has been the basis for your debate then you really do need for her to get rid of Justin now. Don't worry she would beat ali in the finals. I'll explain that one to ya if it happens but trust me Jun would win the larger money. It's time for Justin to go for Juns benefit. I promise :)

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sean you have never dealt with anyone who lies for half a million. Until that happens you have no idea what some will do for money. Lying about keeping Jun when she won't benefits Ali trust me. This is a game. This isn't a day at the office. When you collect this pay check you never have to look at these suckers again. And Justin isn't gonna do anything to her. He may even end up getting him half a million so he'll play dumb and innocent to her ways.

Stro you aren't getting it.... Justin would want Jun out as well but Ali would take the heat for it by doing it and he would be considered the good guy. We already saw... no one will tell Ali what to do with nominations. This is a game for godsakes not some class in ethics. This is the one area where Ali gets that to the point where she justifies all the lies.

Seanflynn2003

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 05:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1
I actually have dealt with people who are dealing for stakes far larger than $500,000 in business, and made deals that benefited me even when I knew they were liars in many cases.

The penalty to her if she lied would be to have an X against her within the house from among whomever of the others were left. Yes, she may be going for final two, but she needs to get there first. Also, I don't think she writes off totally her chances of winning the big prize. I don't think it's likely, but her own self-analysis is likely different.

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just don't understand why Justin would want Jun, someone who saved him, out rather than Jack and Erika, both of whom are clearly out to get rid of him.

I also don't see any reason for Alison to not get rid of Jack and Erika since she obviously will be double crossing them by voting to keep Justin, and therefore they both will be after her as well.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ali has no chance at the grandprize against anyone and that includes Robert. She doesn't know that but It's very apparent. Why do you think that Justin would keep Jun in just because he told her she would be safe? Cause he doesn't lie? Ok we all know he has, but it would be a half truth. He may not nominate her but since Ali has already proven she is a full on liar she has nothing to lose and he knows that. He would let Ali do the deed for him and play it dumb. He knows that Jun has to go. He knows what Rob thinks of Jun. By the way Ali said to Erika just before her nominations this week that if the guys make you a deal just say you will take it and promise them you won't nominate them and then if Jack gets hoh go ahead and nominate them. So you lied who cares? This came from Ali. I'm tellin ya Jun would never ever never ever buy a promise from Ali and Justin.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Stro Jack and Erika already told her to vote to save Justin they don't need her vote if she can't evict him. So that was covered. They are gonna court her for now and then nail her later. Let her believe she is with them. Thats how you play Ali. She is not their target just yet. First Jee and Robert then Ali and then Jun.

Justin would want Jun out so that Ali has no competition to win all the hoh's and vetos as needed to keep him safe. Not too mention the needed control of Jee to just vote his way as needed and an easy target to get rid of whenever. Justin has also grown to admire Jack and Erika. He no longer trashes them and thinks very highly of them. Personally I think he would like to see them in the finals if he can't be there.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
btw all you jun fans you would really want for Justin to be gone and for Erika and Jack to play their game out because if it's Jun, Jack, and Erika in final three my bet is that Jun wins the final hoh and earns her own way into the finals over these two and she picks Erika to go with her and that vote may be very close. Three for sure votes for Erika would be Ali, Nate, and Jack all erika needs is just one of those guys to give it too Erika and would the shoker be that Rob gives her the money? He can't stand Jun so that would be interesting. But like I said you should really hope she gets rid of Justin this week cause this will be her only chance and the final comp in final 3 is endurance and you can bet with Justin and Ali in final 3 that the endurance winner will be Ali or Justin. And as I pointed out Justin and Ali will only take each other to the finals. Justin out of prior obligation for salvaging him all the way to the finals and Ali for simple Ali type reasons. She was the final woman standing. Again I will say... Jun needs to get rid of Justin now. No offers, no deals. It just won't work for Jun. Make the playing field a bit more comfortable now. Instead of getting booted by Justin and Ali later on and having to say... "I was so stupid. I handed them the game"

Stro27

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
But the thing is, Jack and Erika are two of the weaker competitors that you admit even Jun can beat in an HoH competition. I think Jun is better off in an alliance with strong competitors that can win HoH competitions, than one with two weak performers and risk getting picked off one by one.

Jun is the type of player that NEEDS others to do her dirty work for her. The problem is Erika and Jack are the exact same way. Who is going to do the dirty work in that alliance?

Onlyhuman

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 06:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1, I completely agree with your assessment of the situation.

The problem with Jun making an alliance or agreement with Justin is that Justin already has too many obligations that come first to him. He has Jee and Ali already, where can Jun fit in except as a lowly fourth? Even though some might say that Jun "saved" Justin, he will not feel any more obligated to her than to the other two who vote to keep him in the house, since they will have "saved" him as well. You could make a case that Dana saved him the week she was HOH and he SWORE to her that he would protect her, yet he had no problem cutting a deal with Ali to evict her.

In addition, in saving Justin, Jun will have burned all of her bridges with Jack and Erika, while Ali looks more appealing to them, since they already feel that Ali will probably vote for Justin (she already has been practicing that sad, pouty face when she talks about him, foreshadowing that she might be emotionally unable to evict Justin and will need to give him a pity vote). So if the power shifts again, Jun not only can't jump ships again, but she is also the one her own teammates will suggest is put up for eviction.

Jun's best bet is to continue jumping from side to side, until there are no more sides and then win HOH. She's shown she CAN win (I have no doubt she could have stayed in the cage if she had to and she won the POV this week) so she just has to make sure that she does so when it matters the most.

C1mag

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Stro Jun can take out Erika and Jack all on her own by taking them on in final 3 after they have gotten rid of ali, rob and Jee for her. How in hell is she gonna take on Ali and Justin? She can't. Get out Justin now and there is only one too go. Trust me it's time for Justin to go. It works better for jun. I love this debate but I gotta run for now. Oh and btw Jun has more than enough people to hide behind with Justin gone. There is Robert, Ali and Jee all to hide behind and the benefit that if they are gone and it's just her and jack and erika in the final 3 she has a true fighting chance to EARN her way to the finals. Keep Justin and Ali in the game together and she will never have another chance to get them out. It's time to say bye bye to Justin. Jun has the power to control the tempo of the game right now. Hope she doesn't make a grave error.

Spunky

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with C1mag's logic... however, how boring!!
I don't want things to go that predictably!!
I want some surprises... someone who screws up really bad in the "live voting" (the idea of live voting was to have some surprises!), I want Jee to believe that not only him but Ali as well are voting for Robert to go (each of them believing they're the only ones giving a sympathy vote), then Erika having to break the tie and in a panic gets Robert out...
That's a tv show!!!