Archive through August 02, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Editing - What makes the 'Cut' (ARCHIVES: Archive through August 02, 2003

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
AW thanks Miz and I'm sorry I confused you. I was just responding to Bastable's post to me so maybe that's why it didn't make sense?

But I've never felt any attacks or put downs from you or most here truthfully. So fret now and thanks for the hug...I needed it! Could use one of them Bellini's too hehe

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
One last suggestion...if anyone in the personal chat here wants to continue it, maybe we should take this to our folders or email...why bore the whole board! But I honestly would like to see some understanding and come out of it!

Ric_Munoz

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whatever happened to the option of simply not watching something you find objectionable? I've always been attracted to BB's basic premise: the lives of WILLING participants having their lives scrutinized around the clock in all their splendiferousness as well as their moral and physical squalor.

It's entertainment--nothing more, nothing less. If you're offended, stop watching! If the focus on Jun's weight-gain disturbs you, stop watching! If Ali opining, "I THINK Nathan is gay" is out of line to you, stop watching! Shapiro obviously has CBS's blessing; otherwise, the network would "spare us" and these "unpleasant" scenes would never air.

I've talked to dozens of people who couldn't handle the violence shown on "The Sopranos" and "Oz"; they watched, they determined this (violent) type of entertainment was not for them, and then they simply stopped watching.

And, yes, I acknowledge these are "real" people under CBS's magnifying eye, but when they signed on to do the show, they CONSENTED to let Shapiro/CBS present them to the world as ENTERTAINERS. And part of the entertainment process is unflattering editing--it's always been and always will be part of the package. Just CHANGE the channel if it stops working for you!

Maris

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Fair enough Lurk. I am sorry that you feel that I have been this way towards you. I will be honest though, I rarely read who the writer or even remember who the writer of a post is. Where I even noticed you "Lurk" was when you said to me a few days back "Maris, you consistently misundertstand me" and I was really shocked because I had no idea who you were.

I will make an effort in the future not to post anything in response to you that I disagree with but I am not going to refrain from disagreeing with other posters and I do invite you to disagree with me whenever you wish, it isnt a problem for me.

Twiggyish

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Me either!

I think we're used to News and Views Maris..LOL

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ric, I would haope that if it bothered someone enough, they would indeed stop watching. I also hope that what we are seeing brought up are just points folks throw out for consideration--that they are topics that aren't so bad to them as to affect them drastically. (like the example you use of violence on the Sapranos)

It's a matter of degree--do folks think it's bad to do and should be changed, or do they think it's a moral crime as far as what is being done? I can't answer for anyone else--but I know hen it gets to the latter side of things, I'd sure stop watching.

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris honest I don't mind you or anyone else disagreeing with my OPINIONS, or posting their own varying viewpoints. And from what you said we really just do repeatedly apparently percieve things differently, and like I said so goes the ballgame. All that is fine.

It's just hard when I post my viewpoint on any given BB issue and within 10 minutes I can count on the same few posters repeatedly telling everyone why I'm wrong. Not my viewpoint, not their viewpoint, but why "I" am wrong (I would capitalize I if it wasn't already lol).

So, after all these years you don't know who I am?! I didn't realize I was that quiet here.

Maris

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You must be right Twiggy, I have even noticed that some of my nemesis over in News and Views agree with me over here. I dont think Bastable, Crossfire or Ocean and I have even had one fight over here in BB land. Isntt it nice to know we can come together over something (even if it is BB). lol.

Gidget

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Interesting post Ric. But I think I can enjoy BB and still be unhappy about some aspects and feel free to voice them on a discussion board such as this. I also feel free to discuss the things I like as well.

Entertainment, even BB, is art. And art attracts opinions, pro and con.

If BB offended my sensibilities all of the time I would certainly turn it off. But it does not. Life is not that black and white (pun intended) for me.

Ric_Munoz

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for the feedback, Lance and Gidget. I was compelled to share my thoughts primarily because I was frustrated over the bellyaching in general about Jun, Nathan, Ali, etc. and their latest snippets of drama in the house. It's "drama" like this that keeps me entertained and holds my interest. My rant was further fueled by the fact none of us has the power to influence or alter Shapiro's production decisions, so why not just go with the flow or abandon the show? I agree, though, that it's healthy to vent and, like the rest of you, I'm grateful this forum exists to help that privilege along.

Gidget

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah Ric-
Us 350 lb internet geeks are pretty insightful people. I like BB a lot but I wouldn't like it half as much without TVCH. Not a single soul I know in my "real" life watches the show or admits to it. So if not for TVCH, I'd have no one to enjoy my passion with me.

Draheid

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yikes, Gidget, did we all gain another 50 pounds from last season? Seems we were only 300 lb internet geeks then!!!

Gidget

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It must be all the snacking we are observing :)

Weinermr

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's all those bellinis and blinis that are doing us in. LOL

Juju2bigdog

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
We are tossing it down like there's no tomorrow, totally oblivious to the before and after photos that will posted at the end of BB4.

Tobor7

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow. 315 messages on this topic.

When I started it, I started it with this:

"The show was funny enough... but...

Is it me or was tonight's show editor cruel?

First there was the Jun eating/weight thing.

then

There was the Ali thinking Nathan is gay thing.

then

There was all the God/bible stuff. (Not even sure what they were going for with this.)

Any thoughs?"


I was really looking to see if anyone thought the choice of topics and how they were handled were cruel. NOT if being gay is-or-is-not good-- or if someone got what they deserved, etc. I read all your posts and there were many good points made, and I thank you for joining in. But there were specific choices made in the editing, to use this story line, not use that one. They certainly have enough stuff to make 3 hours of TV per week out of 24/7 coverage with all those people.

Now, in a later post I specifically asked:

"To get back to the CRUEL EDITING issue...
If YOU had the power of editorial control for this show, would you keep:

1) The close up tummy shots (yes/no)
2) The Bible story line (yes/no)
3) Ali's line about Nate being gay (yes/no)"

When I asked this question last night, only Lurk had a direct answer. Why no others? C'mon. No fence sitters. Let's put aside the fighting now. Let's have a simple yes or no and see where we all land.

We thank your for your support in trying to keep this on topic.

Bastable

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I suppose one has to believe that all those things are CRUEL before they can answer. Which is what led us to so many other ideas.

Tobor7

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So Bastable, your answer would be yes/yes/yes?

Tobor7

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
There were many decisions made when they put that show together. The editor and producer put those story lines in. Then many people had to approve the show. Arnie, network execs, lawyers, etc. Any one of them could have had an issue and changes would have been made. (And I'm sure some changes were made. They always are.) Just pretend you were in that loop and what decision would you make?

Ric_Munoz

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes to all three, Tobor. And I'm glad CBS gave the gig to Shapiro--his ideas (good & bad) have improved the show dramatically from season one. That cast was great (except for that George creature) but the show itself was a crashing bore.

Hamsterlady

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
yes/yes/yes :)

Reader234

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
~*~*~WARNING~*~*~*~*WARNING... dumb question coming....

in regards to the "Nate is gay" since I didnt get it in context is there any way possible that Ali was referring to "gay" as being corny/stupid/et el (which is also offensive imho, however, with these young people, I wouldnt put it past them using that term in that context) just curious mind you... (I kinda doubt it after reading so much here, its just where my mind went...)

Tobor too opinionated to narrow it down to plain yes or no, ummm that would be like who wants to marry my dad's lie detector test!!!

Again, I take the Bible point as they are too young to know better, doesnt excuse it, but I think they are extremely bored, and are just looking for laughs... just my opinion... maybe I just try too hard to look for the good in all people...

Also, as far as the editing... I like how the TV showed clips from BB3 where are they now, imho they edited Chiara and Gerry really bad at times, and yet, look at them now - no worse for the wear as far as the TV glimpse was... I mean Gerry was looking spiffy imho!!!

Gidget

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
1. tummy shots - NO, eating and jeans, yes.
2. Bible - yes
3. Gay yes with something to offset.

And for the record, NO to any especially unflattering or revealing body shots. In fact, there are plenty of places on the internet for that level of taste.

Bluerose

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I feel like writing to Arnold S. about next year and asking him if he could possibly find 12 non prejudgious(Sp) and non homophobic people. How hard could this be? Everyone in that house has said something degrading about someone else. At this point I will have to root for Jack as he is the least offensive although he did make the buzzard remark which I thought was very funny in spite of myself. All the people that I was rooting for have now shown more than clay feet. I'm also rethinking my opinion of Scott at this point. His reactions in retrospect may actually have been quite sane. If I were in that house, I might have thrown a few chairs myself.

Costacat

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 03:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

The entire show wasn't cruel. They did the tatoo montage. I wish they had shown the HGs trying to dump Jee in the pool while he slept, too. But... I think there is a dearth of topics that they *can* show, and fewer that they can montage. I mean, how many segments can they do with Dana saying "I'm so... [you know]". Or how many stories can they do with Jack or Erika (since those two seem to be, well, IMNSHO, pretty boring to watch).

Cruelty is in the eye of the beholder. What one person considers cruel, another may consider to be blunt honesty. Consider me part of the latter.

All of the above is my opinion.