Archive through July 31, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Where's Jack's FBI training???: Archive through July 31, 2003

Maris

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Anything I have posted has come directly from the feeds. We are all entitled to post our opinions of the HGs and the comments they make. I do know that the words uttered by Jack would never come out of my father's mouth and I have a right to criticize him for what he has said and for his lack of gameplay.

If you wish to disagree with my assessment of his game play I invite you to provide evidence of his negotiating skills since he couldnt even get Dana to nominate whom he wanted. He has attempted to get Alison to nominate Justin and lets see how his negotiating skills work on her.

(c)

Slg21

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I strongly disagree with you. I just don't know why you have it out for Jack, especially when assumptions have been made that aren't true. As far as negotiations with Dana and Ali, it would be difficult for anyone to talk rationally with two immature women who act purely on emotions. I invite you to know what you are talking about before saying personal things about Jack's character and especially before bashing his career in the FBI. Some pretty harsh things have been said by you -- things that are unfounded.

Slg21

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jack is very intelligent and is playing a good game.

Maris

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The only comment I made about Jack in the FBI was recounting his own story about going out to eat on the job and letting a suspect get away. It is in the feeds and can be found in the live feed transcripts. I dont have it in for Jack I just have seen no evidence of his gameplay or negotiating skills. By the way, Alison did not put Justin up so Jack is 0 for 2.

Slg21

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Again, Allison is playing with her emotions. Nathan and Erica were trying to tell her to put up Justin, too.
<MK>

His negotiating skills have helped stop an Atlanta prison riot in the late 1980s, helped stop a mail bomber in the early 1990s, and rescued civilians in several hostage situations over his thirty year career. Also, he has caught and arrested countless kidnappers and bank robbers. I don't think his character should be judged by his inability to sway two immature and self righteous whiny young women on a reality show.

Maris

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 05:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He is judged by his actions and words in the game. It doesnt matter what you do outside the house,it is what happens inside the house that will determine whether you win the game or not. I have not seen any evidence of his ability to play this game.

He isnt a good game player in my estimation, I am waiting for him to pick it up. If he is unable to sway a houseful of twenty somethings then he will lose

Slg21

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that it matters only what you do in the house. I was responding to your personal comments that you have made about Jack and his lack of intelligence and negotiating skills which don't hold any merit. He has the skills.

Wendo

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I have to agree with Maris regarding Jack and his gameplay in the house. He hasn't been effective at all with negotiating with the other HG and he's shown an inability to play the other HG to his advantage. At this point, I don't think he's playing very well.

As far as his skills outside of the house, I have no idea since I don't know him. I'm basing my opinion on his gameplay within the house and within the game.

Slg21, you know Jack personally. And, I'm sure it's difficult to read comments that are negative about Jack. But, Jack is a contestant on the BB game show and this board is about watching BB and commenting on it. Speaking for myself, I'm not commenting on Jack as a person, but as a BB game player.

Moderator

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Reminder: personal attacks against other posters are not permitted at TVCH. Keep your comments about the issues, the show and the houseguests, NOT about each other. Thanks! :)

MK

Costacat

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually, hostage negotiations involve dealing with emotional people, yes? So I would think that Jack would have extraordinary skills with which to deal with the other houseguests. Jack may, in fact, have been a great recruiter and public relations officer. However, he has not proven TO ME that he has exceptional skills when it comes to evaluating the situation in the house, and when it comes to negotiating for what he feels he wants/needs.

FWIW, we are all entitled to our own opinions about how we PERCEIVE Jack and how he plays the game.

Twiggyish

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Agreed Costa!

Slg21

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I am in complete agreement, Costacat, that hostage situations involve emotional people -- obviously -- and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jack is best at keeping cool under pressure and his ability to take emotion out of an equation. However, I think anyone would have a hard time trying to stop two females like Dana and Ali from going at each other.
I just wanted you all to be well-informed since Jack's FBI training and career were being bashed -- which is personal. There were some posters who seems to have it out for Jack and they were saying things about his personal career that just are untrue and unfair to comment on if you don't know what you are talking about.

Costacat

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BTW, I think this thread needs...


BELLINIS!!!!!!

Bbrock

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 08:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gonna throw in my . I see Jack using his skills a lot in the way he deals with the house guest. Many times he tells them what THEY want to hear to gain their trust and not see him as a threat. He's always one step ahead in his thinking or at least it appears that way to me. He has pretty much pegged every member for who they are. I commend him and hope he takes the prize. Oh yeah and ya can only negotiate so far before ya have to send in the SWAT team. :)

Reader234

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 08:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ROFLOL I agree Bbrock. Also I think that Slg brings some interesting points. Also, this isnt a "hostage" situation (per se) after all, since it is a game, and since he is a "player" he needs to keep a 'back seat' and see how things play out... and it looks to me he is doing that... and I like how candid he is in the dairy room, I think he comes across great!! (imho)

Hockey31

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I completely back up slg21 and also agree with brock and reader.
Jack is intelligent and is doing a great job. I, too, have noticed certain posters getting too personal about Jack's career. They don't have the right to bash his FBI career, especially when they are just making assumptions.
I love his DR quotes -- he keeps me in stitches. I love his dry humor!

Katlady53

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hockey, I agree. I love Jack's dry sense of humor!

Maris

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No assumptions were made, any comments that were made by me about his career were based on his own anecdotes. Jack almost got evicted last week and even he said on the live feeds, that he never saw it coming. He is a fish out of water in that house and his assessment of flying under the radar has been wrong. One thing he should have realized is that the same strategy does not necessarily work the next year. This years HGs are fully aware of the threat of someone sneaking through.

His alliance is the only one that has been broken so far. Michele - no alliance(ex) is gone, Amanda - no alliance(ex) is gone, David - Jacks alliance is gone. He totally misread Dana's intentions and then when she nominated him he told Erika that she was thinking with her panties and that she would keep David, Well I guess that observation was wrong too because they voted David out.

If someone can offer up some evidence at all of Jacks game playing beyond what he did at the FBI before he retired, I would like to hear it. To say that Jack is playing a great game because he is doing nothing isnt evidence. His attempts at influencing nominations have failed every time.

Furthermore, this board is about discussing and yes, critiquing what the HGs say and do. It is not personal. If Jack actually does something I will be the first to say brilliant move. I havent seen it yet, and the game is moving on at a fast clip.

No assumptions were made by this poster.

Puzzled

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't know any FBI people, but I know quite a few Mounties (and aren't they the same kind of people?)--and none of them are stumble-bums.

I think that one of their strengths is the ability to blend in. Jack has blended in to the point of near-invisibility. He isn't going to freak the others out by flaunting his intelligence, and unlike so many of the older folks on the "reality" shows, he's not playing the superior old guy, either. I think he's really doing very well.

Gypsy888

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jack brilliantly assessed them in the DR in the beginning. He told what kind of people they are, what their strengths and weaknesses are. He also noticed the way each one performed their athletic abilities. He is most definately playing the game...but on another level. I have FBI and CIA in my family. He is playing exactly the way I expected him to play.

As far as the screw up while on duty...those in my family involved with the FBI have said that everyone gets latent and messes up...when that mess up costs them, they learn and grow from it. They also told me that they usually don't go around advertising it, therefore, you may not know if a loved one screwed up on duty, or Jack is using this as a ploy (like throwing the comps) to not appear as a threat.

Hockey31

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 09:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree with the poster who keeps claiming their innocence at falsely attacking Jack. He correctly assessed all houseguests and called it that Dana was not loyal and should not be trusted. He said Dana was thinking with her panties referring to Dana being blind to seeing Justin as a threat. He wasn't talking about David. He was saying Dana should stop playing by her emotions and letting her attraction to Justin cloud her judgement. He was saying Dana should put up Justin because he is a strong player, but he knew she wouldn't because she is attracted to Justin -- thinking from between her legs.
I don't see how anyone can question Jack's intelligence or think he is not playing the game well. I think his FBI training and his people skills are serving him well.
He adapts well to the situations in the house despite that his age does alienate him.

And thanks slg21 for the insight into some of Jack's career highlights. It only makes me respect him more. :)

Peachie

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
IMO he must have been a darn good FBI agent to have been in there for 30 years. I honestly feel bad for him being in there with a bunch of kids but he handles himself really well and I think he fits in better with them than Gerry in BB3 and Kent in BB2 fit in with the people they played the game with. for being 58 years old the man is doing great and playing the game the way he wants to play as all the others are as well. ;o)

Maris

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
That is incorrect. The conversation that Jack had with Erika about Dana thinking with her panties specifically referred to David and NOT Justin. Justin never even came into the conversation. He was discussing with Erika why he thought he would be evicted and not David.

I am not claiming innocense for anything, nor am I attacking Jack. I am critiquing his gameplaying. This is not personal, this is a website to discuss the antics and behavior of the Houseguests. It is not about one poster (moi) having some vendetta against a player that I dont even know.

Please provide a quote of where I Bashed Jack. Nobody has provided any quote where I bashed him. I understand where family and friends may have problems with how their HGs are classified or described but they need to develop tougher skins instead of attacking posters.

Why do people insist on bringing up his career as evidence of his good gameplaying? It is how you play the game in the house and I just as everyone else here is entitled to an opinion instead of being singled out as being mean to Jack. This is a game. I am sure anyone that can describe a woman as a buzzard crotch can withstand criticism of his actions.

That is all I have to say on the matter, because nothing can be resolved with this dialogue. I will just agree to disagree with your assessment of his gameplay and my characterization of it.

Gypsy888

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 10:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris....I am not getting down on you...I simply completely disagree with you based on my personal observations. When Jack said the thing with thinking with your panties that encompassed more than David...basically I think he meant in general...that is just my observation.

I am not a family member or friend, but I admire gamers who use their brains...which we don't see much of in the BB house. AFter everything that everyone has said about everyone else...I feel Jack used the buzzard crotch comment to let off a little steam, considering how gentlemanly he has conducted himself in the house, I feel he deserves it. I also think it was offensive, but if that is all he needed to let off steam, then compared to the others I have to give him a pat on the back for being able to keep it in so well.

You are most welcome to your opinions and I respect them.

Tishala

Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 11:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris, you have completely won me over with your discussions about the HGs this year, and you have never been more "on" than you are with this thread. Very convincing, I think, and probably correct.