Archive through August 02, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Editing - What makes the 'Cut' (ARCHIVES: Archive through August 02, 2003

Bastable

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lurknomore wrote: "A group of folks started turning this into a "what is wrong with being gay" issue. I for one in no way, shape or form think that is the point here. "

I don't think it's necessary on a fresh new day to start pointing fingers of blame around here. We are all entitled to voice our opinions, so no one, including me, should be implying that anyone's opinion is somehow invalid.

Besides that point of etiquette, Lurk, I think you missed the point of what was significant about the "what's wrong with being gay" question. If one believes that what Ali said could "damage" Nate, then one is already operating under the supposition that being called gay is a very horrible thing to be called. If a person has no issues with homosexuality, what Ali said last night would be like water off a duck's back.

Whatever. I come on these boards to share opinions and debate and have fun. I do not come here to change people's minds, and then throw my hands up when they for some incredible reason don't come away believing exactly the things I want them to. If I were coming to this board with the intent of making everyone agree with me, I suppose I would be very annoyed, too.

Sanfranjoshfan

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It's funny that no one seems to mind that Justin said that Ali was a pathological liar...over and over. Making such a big deal that she called Nate gay implies that calling Nate gay is a much bigger insult than calling someone a pathologicial liar. It isn't.

Nobody is accusing CBS of setting up Alison to be discriminated against in all her future possible relationships or job opportunities because it was announced to the world that she is a pathological liar....by someone who KNOWS that she is a pathological liar. That label could most certainly cause her problems.

Maris

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually I heard Alison cheer Jun on last night when Jun said she was eating cottage cheese. Ali said good for you. I know I hate to give the girl a compliment, but she seemed to be encouraging Jun to eat properly.

Mizinvanccouver

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think it's distasteful for BB to show the before and after pics. BB is showing us what is happening to the houseguests and therefore what is happening to Jun.

I'm sure if I was in there I would put on weight too so I am not putting Jun down for that. I hope once she's out of the house she can resume or weightloss. Or weight gain or loss doesn't effect whether I like her or not. I like her and unless she does something really mean/spiteful I will continue liking her.

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with you Sea...and would take it one step farther. So far there hasn't been much, if any, true camaraderie in this house beyond the G3. So why would they WANT to help someone? All they do is focus on themselves.

Last year as mean as they were to Gerry they all gave him props for his weight loss. As I've said all along, most of these folks are as shallow as a puddle in my driveway, and everyone is totally out for themselves (true in any game like this, but I still think you can try to succeed without having to nuke and backstab everyone else).

Costacat

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If you stop and think about it, there were montages almost every year about the physical changes in one or more of the HGs. Granted, though, the physical changes (such as Bunky's) were more on the "s/he's looking better" side of the fence.

Sanfran, you bring up a good point and one I'd forgotten about. I was pretty appalled at Justin's statements on the show last night. I think the two of them have a lot of unresolved issues. *If* there is any lying going on in the house (and I'm not saying there is or isn't), wouldn't a large part of it be because of the "game"? To be a devil's advocate, who's to say Justin isn't lying about Ali's lying?

Gidget

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good point Sanfran. Trouble is I see people like Ali succeeding every day of the week. Honesty is only a word these days. People adept at backstabbing, gossip and flat out lying seem to do very well in the real world. At least what I have seen in the past 10-15 years.

And if they are called on it all they have to do is say sorry, it won't happen again and all the hapless saps fall for it.

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sanfran--excellent point!! And I'd rather have someone question my sexual orientation than my honesty!!

I think it would be a whole other study to come up with what seems to cause issues if someone challenges someone else about a trait, yet not other traits. That isn't the topic of the thread though.

I guess in the end it's the people who watch the show that help determine what editing is used--because they will edit this thing so people will be interested in watching it.

The funny thing is, things like sexual orientation, weight loss or weight gain, facial contortions, and a bunch of other things, have little to do with the game. Yet they seem to be what's pointed out.

Bastable

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Did anyone hear Jee on the feeds last night? Everyone was going on about gay this and gay that, teasing Nathan by telling him he ought to sleep with Jee. When Jee said, "We'd better stop talking about this gay stuff. I don't want to become a gay favorite."

[Everyone laughed.]

"I don't want that kind of following."

--I wonder if CBS will now punish Jee's homophobia by "outing" him, too?

Mizinvanccouver

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't take Nat's comments about Ali literally. I think he was letting off steam. I don't think it'll effect her when she comes out of the house.

I mean look at previous BB's where things were said, I don't think any of the previous HG's have had negative reprecussions.

Maybe Amy with the being an alcholic, but she got to redeem herself on an episode recently.

Bastable

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wait.... wasn't there also a board rumor about Hardy? Am I mixing that up? I know there was a rumor (still is) about BB1's Josh. Is it that all good-looking, well-sculpted, body-shaving rubes become instant sexual suspects?

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bastable clearly we don't get each other or share many of the same viewpoints. There are times I swear I could say "the sky is blue and has clouds" and you and a few others will find reasons to point out why I am wrong. I'm not sure why, and this is not an attack, but I would appreciate you showing me the respect of allowing me to post MY OPINION, yes on a new day, but since my old posts were way buried I wanted those that found the thread late to see it. Additionally I wanted to write a post when I was bright eyed, bushy tailed and writing more clearly as it was late last night when I wrote my other posts.

I am most certainly not trying to get everyone to agree with me. If you read my later posts I even welcomed a lurker and said I found some of her points interesting...I did...even though I disagreed with some others. I like an INTELLIGENT exchange where folks are sharing and exchaning viewpoints not just out to prove others wrong. And if that's what you think I am doing then clearly you are 100% not getting me as I suspect.

And as I have repeated numerous times, and you seem to have missed, my point has NEVER been about what you said (the paragraph about if Nate could be damaged). It has always been about does BB have the right to air a segment like this when Nate never said he was gay. It was unbalanced and done in a way that didn't clearly show the viewing audience that Ali had no knowledge of what she was saying, and to date they have seen her as being close with Nate and would assume she would know what she is saying.

Can't we just agree to disagree PLEASE without constant personal put downs? And I hope the mods will leave this because my intent is in NO way an attack, but something I hope we can resolve, because I know I find it no fun. Clearly we are going to disagree because we tend to perceive things differently. Let's just do that but with some respect. I know I always try to keep an open mind, and I like the exchange on the boards. It's interesting to see new/different viewpoints. But it's not interesting to always feel like everything I say will be shredded by a few people. As Ryn and others have posted in the past, please disagree with my viewpoint, but must I always hear that I am wrong? Clearly I, and many others here, don't feel I am. Just as others here are more in your line of thinking. And that's what makes the world go round.

Sanfranjoshfan

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Costacat - "*If* there is any lying going on in the house (and I'm not saying there is or isn't), wouldn't a large part of it be because of the "game"? To be a devil's advocate, who's to say Justin isn't lying about Ali's lying? "

Well, when Justin was telling Nate that Ali was a pathological liar in the hot tub on last night's show....it didn't sound like he was referring to BB game play to me. He was basing his statements on Alison as he knows her *outside the house* and *outside* the BB game. Similarly, we don't know for sure that Ali was calling Nate gay for a strategy or whether she really thinks he is. What Justin said about Ali was just as much of an opinion (or lie) as what Ali said about Nate.

But my point was that people are not nearly as upset that Justin said that as they are upset at Ali calling Nate "gay". Why is that? I believe it is because people generally assume that being called "gay" is a thousand times worse than being called a pathological liar. That implies that "gay" is more shameful than "pathological liar", in terms of putdowns and insults.

Costacat

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bellinis!!!! If everyone drank bellinis, we'd all at least be in agreement on one thing... YUM! <grin>

P.S. Lurk, just trying to lighten the mood. There's been a lot of "stuff" lately... one of the reasons for my complaint that required a psychic!

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I was more suprised to hear someone make a comment about another person being gay that a liar because the first has nothing to do with the game of BB, but if you can convince others that someone is a pathological liar, you can affect how they are viewed in terms of the game.

So it would make more sense to me ot have someone try and comvince a person your oppenent can't be trusted.

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well I'm up for one...but only if you could make mine with real peaches. Many, many years back I have a VERY bad peach schnapps experience/night LOL and it's rather turned me off forever.

Must say that a Bellini (or two lol) sounds very tasty right about now! :)

Costacat

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually, Sanfran, in my case it was because I didn't see last night's show until this morning (and I didn't even read all the show spoilers at all). When I popped over here to see what was up, the Justin-Ali thing completely slipped my mind due to all the other stuff going on.

Personally, I think any namecalling is bad. I was even offended at Dani's "he's the devil" statements all last season. I just forgot about Justin in the heat of all the other discussions here. My bad...

Costacat

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
P.S. We are all gonna have our own personal "hot buttons" based on our own personal experiences and lives. Some people who may have had issues with weight in the past will feel more protective of Jun. Some people who have had issues with race will feel more protective of Jee. Some people who have participated in sports will feel more protective of Justin. Some people who have competed in beauty and/or talent contests will feel more protective of Alison.

On the lighter side, I've yet to hear anyone feel real protective about the "little habit" that Robert seems to have! <BIG grin> <really BIG grin>

Mizinvanccouver

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Opps...I just realized I said Nat said that about Ali but really it was Justin who called her a liar.

As for the gay comments I didn't take those literally either. There is always name calling in BB and I let it go in one ear and out the other. People say things when they are in that house that they would normally not say.

Lurk...I was reading back on this thread and I'm completely confused as to what you're talking about.

I just want to let you know I like reading your posts and hopefully when I am posting I'm only stating my views WITHOUT attacking or putting anyone elses view down. That's why I come here is to hear what others have to say, whether I agree with them or not. I like it that we are all INDIVIDUALS.

*HUGS TO YOU LURK* I hope your day gets better.

Maris

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lurk, I am going to comment on your post and it is not a personal put down. It truly isn't and maybe it is defensiveness on my part. I could be wrong. I have read quite a few posts written by you where you have mentioned "a few posters" or "you consistenting misunderstand me" as though there is some targetting being done because there is disagreement. When you type in blocks that you like INTELLIGENT conversation it is coming across that you think the people that you perceive are attacking you are stupid.

Maybe it isnt the intent, but certainly when I read those posts I feel they are directed at me personally. I disagree with quite a few of your positions, but I do not believe I have ever made my posts personal about another poster. If I have misunderstood the intent of your posts, could I just ask you to keep an open mind and accept how the words seem to come across. I will do likewise if you can point out where you have a problem with my posts.

Speaking for myself I love a good dialogue and am totally bored if all I read are people who agree with my point of view.

Mizinvanccouver

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Costacat!!! :-)

*Cheers....I love Bellini's!! lol*

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL I was stuck next to a guy in traffic a few days back Costa who might have stood up for Robert's "little habit." Clearly he actively engaged in it LOLOLOL Pity he hasn't found the board

Bastable

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I really wish The Smoking Gun could get ahold of the show's contracts with the HGs. I'd love to see exactly what rights they sign away. I'll bet the answer is: Everything. If it happens in the house, it's fair game, even if it's only said about you.

I think that the only thing CBS wouldn't do is broadcast libelous talk or accusations of criminial behavior that are patently untrue (for example, if Ali started telling everyone that Nate had murdered someone with an ax--which is a crime). Everything else is fair game in an unfair game.

I'm not sure I'm on board with the idea that CBS should have given some "back-up" or other clips of Nate saying homophobic things or acting gay (whatever that is). I say that from an ethical standpoint--as a producer of the show, I would have handled it differently. But I guess in sum, it's just Ali's opinion as a woman who has macked with Nate and lain in bed with him for countless hours. And maybe it reflects on nothing more than her ego as a mantrap--which is why they edited it that way.

Another thing to remember: The producers have a single day in which to collect clips and edit them for the Friday night broadcast. The first half-hour is shown to the CBS suits at dinnertime on Thursday and the second half-hour is due by dawn on Friday. Friday's shows are prone to editing disasters because of the insane time crunch involved.

Lurknomore

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris perhaps you feel they are directed at you as you are part of that small group that always seems to rush to tell me, and the board, why I'm wrong. At first I didn't take it personally, assuming we just had different perspectives. But after a couple years it's hard not to take it personally when I have come to expect nearly every post I make to be contradicted by one of a few people.

When I type in caps I am stressing the point I'm trying to make. Posts and emails are so toneless and I try to compensate for that by finding ways to add that tone. It isn't a put down or a twist...it is simply what I said...me stressing MY OPINION. I can't help if you choose to read more into it than is there, but I'm glad you asked so I can clear it up. And I would be glad to keep an open mind if the same is done in return. But like I said too often, especially lately, I feel that I can count on my posts being refuted, at length and in stereo, for why they are wrong. That is very different from just posting personal opinions that might differ.

And I think we already have found something we can agree on...I too love a good dialog. I just hope we can do that without all these put downs and personal contradictions that seem so rampant lately. I'm not seeing that they are adding anything other than aggravation and making some folks umcomfortable. I hope this makes some sense to you.

Mizinvanccouver

Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's all about ratings=money; BB stirring the pot up.

They use what the HG's say or do in any way they want to get the ratings.

Like Bastable mentioned. Bottom line is that's what BB is all about. Catching people saying doing things that cause controversy.