Archive through August 25, 2003
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Allison is playing the worst game:
Archive through August 25, 2003
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:56 pm     I also agree that Jun has done well in this game based on the tempo of the house. It would be a tough call for me if it were her and ali in the finals. I'd keep asking myself who played it better? Not who played nice. I guess it would then come down to which one played me out of the house. If they both did I'm still stuck with who to pick. Probably have to do a quick "pick a number" type of thing LOL |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:57 pm     Tobor - your idea of charity option would turn an already boring BB into a complete snooze fest; in any drama it is usually the villains who are of the greatest interest, and this would remove any of that; it would turn this into a pure personality/beauty/who needs it most? contest, and this unwatchable |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:57 pm     There's the problem C1. You should NEVER leave the ethics at home. Not in a game, not in business, not in life and not in war. Ethics are what you are. If you can leave your ethics at home... then you do not have ethics to leave at home. |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:00 pm     Sean... Well they wouldn't tell them that is an option till they are ready to vote. hehehe For me that would be a great moment. 2 people in the chairs looking shocked. Hey! That's not fair! BB voice: "Read your contract. Now get out." |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:02 pm     Then BB would be worse than the worst house guest ever; hard to object to individuals bad actions if you approve of corporate lies (which applies to the world beyond BB as well) |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:04 pm     Between Jun and Ali it would nothing to do with "nice". It would be the lesser of 2 bads. c1, you keep talking about giving it to the "nice" player. You are the only one who is using the word "nice". |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:09 pm     Allison and Jun (I strongly disagree with the assertion of her being evil or particularly nasty, btw) are both playing by the rules. To change them would be loathsome. And notice who gets the most attention on these boards? People who posters can criticize and condemn. A BB full of Jasons and Joshes would be hell even if they might (and I am not willing to concede anything about their superiority as people, particularly outside the house)be better people. |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:10 pm     Tobor in this game you gotta leave the ethics at home. If you didn't then you'd be out the door the first week. You can't keep all your promises in this game. It's impossible. You are gonna have to betray them and maybe this is the part that you don't get. This is a GAME not every day life. I clearly know the difference and can seperate the two. When you have someone like Dana running around pumping up the game a lot sooner than it should be you have to start getting a little ugly. The rules allow it. It suggests it. You don't come into this game saying.. "ok here's the plan. Screw the rules lets play it this way" This is actually how Roddy lost the game. He tried to change the tempo of the game and SWORE he was the golden child of the group when in fact he duped many of them and even set fort an intense mindscrew on Amy. Was that part of his ethical journey? Hell no but he'd never admit that. If you just can't stand what Ali says behind the others backs I'm cool with that but then play it fair. Did the others say garbage? If you were in the game did you say garbage? Chances are you might have slipped at least once. Did you lose your ethics? Heck no. All of a sudden would your moment of ethical weakness mean that you no longer deserved the larger money? You'd say no real fast cause it's you. I can't say enough that this isn't an ethical journey its just a game and the second that someone who is articulate and clear on this makes that statement you can bet that everyone including the unethical one will have a clear shot at that money in the end. |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:10 pm     What was Ali's strategy of bad-mouthing Dana when she was doing the camera comp-- knowing full well the jury will see the comps. Where was the game benefit here? How did it better her game position? Why was it a smart move? |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:16 pm     Philosophical words on the appeal of evil (from The Third Man; Orson Welles played a black marketeer selling diluted medicines in post war Vienna; he wrote this little speech that I have always enjoyed, though of course I understand that pure evil is not good: In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed -- they produced Michelangelo, De Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock. |
Puzzled | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:16 pm     It is all a matter of perspective, because the final two have played equally well to have made it that far. Maybe one rode on the coat-tails of the other, but that is a strategy, too. So you're not really voting who played best, but whose strategy you feel should get the big bucks and how the two played the game to get there. Some people will vote for the person who was the nastiest and did the most back-stabbing, and others won't. That's the game. |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:18 pm     Since Dana would be the only one who had a problem with it I'd ask of Dana... "did ya say anything negative about Ali?" as we all know she sure did. Now throw out the idea that not giving ali a vote for the money is because she said something mean because all you'd have to say to Dana is... "ok so you wouldn't deserve the money as well if you were still there because you did the same thing?" Case closed on that one. Ask Dana if Alison beat her specifically and she would have to say hell yes she did. She couldn't even get rid of her when she nominated her. So the big challenge now. Suck it up and admit ali beat her. Therefore, if Dana believes in true character have some character and give that money to the one that played you to the door. Since ya both trashed each other that shouldn't be a factor at all. That is if you really do have character. |
Kmjm | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:21 pm     C1, just curious, what do you think of Ali's plan to falsely accuse Jack of doing something creepy (presumably some kind of sexual overture) to her as a justification for voting him out? Is that just good gameplay? |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:24 pm     No Km it's horrid gameplay. However, lisa accused Jerry of the same thing and she ended up winning the whole thing last year. |
Misslibra | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:25 pm     I don't think Ali is playing the worst game, but her game is shall we say a bit messy and all over the place, but so far it's working she is still in there. I am a little concern that her head will explode by the time the game ends. LOL And I think Ali is aware she is playing for second place now. Her plan to dirty Jack's name is just plain wrong, and that I do most definitely disagree with. That part of her game plan is the worst. Ali has a tendency to go over board with things and this is a good example. She is over playing her hand. |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:25 pm     I guess I would try C1. At least I would try. If I had to lie, maybe I would lie to those who lied to me. I would not try to be the bad, evil one. I would just be me. That's my "A" game. It got me this far, and I'm happy where I'm at. If I gave my word, then I would keep my word as quid pro quo and only break it if broken by the other party first. I know I wouldn't last long in the house unless I found more people like me. But there is no reason for me to even want to be on BB. I heard you say you want to be on BB C1? Why? For the money? The TV fame? You want to be an actor? What would your reason be? |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:26 pm     However, I'm gonna say this that we of coarse all know Ali is full of poo on this issue but Dana would have to concede that she too had a little encounter with Jack that was uncomfortable in the hoh. He grabed Dana from behind and she yanked herself from him and said, "back off Jack. Momma Jack wouldn't like that" So if Ali says she felt uncomfortable around him for some reason she would have the backing of both Jun and Dana. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:27 pm     C1 - isn't it more accurate to say it is disreputable and loathsome gameplay, but until we see how the game comes out, we don't know if it is bad gameplay? If Rob and Jee blow their stacks at her, but accept her excuse, Rob might if he wins HoH next week still go with Jun and Erika, and rationalize it because of this, Then if no PoV, Allison wins HoH the following week, and is in the final 3, and almost certainly dragged along to the final 2. Just one example how it might work. |
Kmjm | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:28 pm     Yes, C1 I hated that Lisa did that last year. And if anyone coasted to the win, it was her. |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:31 pm     Tobor the challenge of the game. I think this is probably the most unique reality game out there. Locked up with complete strangers all trying to outlast the other for some money and in order to do so you have to devise a way to remain in the house. Then something none have done yet. Take on the jury and challenge every move you made. I love this game. There would be no offer for fame in this for me. I'd turn it down. Acting is out for me. It's the challenge. I love this game. I love watching people and different personalities and seeing how they breakdown and change in crazy situations. This one is awesome and that is why I'd want to take this journey. I do want to get something straight. I do not advocate being Evil in this game but then know the difference in what is evil and what is not. I totally believe you can win this backstabbing and lying. I don't find it unethical nor does it define you in a normal setting. |
Tobor7 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:34 pm     Why would you want to win it by backstabbing and lying-- they all do that? Why wouldn't you want to do it by having honor and being honest? What would be the better achievement? |
Spunky | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:34 pm     Why are you using this thread if the majority of posts deal with how well she played or something else altogether.. And here I'm doing the same as you..eh, eh. |
Seanflynn2003 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:36 pm     The better achievement would be to win by not backstabbing or lying. It would also be boring and uninteresting. It is impossible the way BB is set up. And by the way life usually works the same way. |
Gina8642 | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:39 pm     lol - as I read these posts people seem to forget that the way you judge a winner is not the way a person sitting next to you does. In this game there are no rules on the criteria used to judge. That is part of the beauty of it. Every jury member will use different criteria. One may use the popularity contest. One may choose based on who played ethically. One may choose by who irritated them the least, who didn't wake them up in the morning, who didn't talk behind their back, who had the best hair cut, who was the most intelligent, who didn't backstab, who pulled the best backstab, etc. We the viewers don't have ANY say in whether these are an appropriate criteria. We don't get to choose and we don't get to say someone is wrong for choosing their individual way of judging. |
C1mag | Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:43 pm     Sean I could go that route and say it may not come to bite her but it's just a move I would not make. I'm up for all the lying, all the backstabbing and flirting, but heres my fine line. I don't know about saying something that foul about someone. It didn't seem to lose Lisa the money but every little negative thing Ali does is gonna be magnified. She might not want to have done this but in this case as I pointed out Dana herself had an uncomfortable encounter with Jack as well. It wasn't some lie. He really did make her feel uncomfortable. So this may work for Ali it's just not a move I'd make. I would handle this whole thing different anyway in reagard to keeping Erika. Jee keeps saying, "it's just a game guys" well use his own words. No need to tell him in advance you didn't keep the person he wanted. After the eviction tell him, "it's just a game and a move I made that I thought was a benefit to me" However, I'd wait all the way up until I see if Rob got the next hoh before I mentioned anything as to why I voted the way I did. Later on if I were in the final two knowing that Rob and Jee would be pissed I'd lay it out clearly. I played for me and not for them. No where in the game did it say I must vote the way that the hoh says. I duped them. Deal with it and remind them they wanted to dupe Erika into believing she was staying. Jee says he put everyone on pbj to make them weak. How is your gameplay considered not worthy of the prize but yet they are out and you made it to the end just because you lied to them? Like I said I want to see someone take on that Jury in the finals and give them a lot more to think about then what they initially walked in thinking in the first place. For the record Ali doesn't have that in her. She will is gonna look foolish blinking her eyes and going into her little girl routine and they will all roll their eyes. |
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