Archive through August 05, 2003
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Special K, acid, ecstacy and cocaine - who used what??:
Archive through August 05, 2003
Wendo | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:26 am     I disagree Kalekona, from what I've read about cocaine snorting, prolonged use can also permanently damage the mucous membrane in the nose as well. This damage results in dry, itchy, as well as runny noses; including sneezing. It also restricts blood flow to the vascular system in the nose. I don't know if Robert was a long term cocaine user or not; or whether his nasal "issues" are a result of allergies or cocaine use. However, the symptoms he is exhibiting do fit the profile of prolonged cocaine use and the damage it can do. Cocaine use does more than eat away the nose. There are many other nasal consequences from prolonged cocaine use; even after one has quit. |
Kalekona | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:34 am     Whatever. You people want to make robert the dope head no matter what. so don't let me or the truth stop you. I wouldn't want to ruin your fun with fact. (i've lived in L.A. and have had allergies all my life. And Robert's symptoms are classic smog irratated allergies. But if everyone wants them to be drugs, have at it, enjoy yourselves. I'll not argue it. |
Wink | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:38 am     Kalekona I suspect part of the problem is that smog irritated or induced allergies just don't provide enuff fodder for discussion. |
Wendo | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:44 am     Kale, Hey, I agree with you, Robert's nasal difficulties could be from allergies. I don't disagree. As I said, I don't know what his problems stem from. Heck, maybe he just likes to sniff. However, the symptoms he does have can also fit the profile of nose damage from cocaine use. That's all I was clarifying. That cocaine use can do more damage to the nose than just eat it away. Anyway, perhaps we'll find out one day. Maybe one of the HG's will just ask Robert, Yo, Robert, what's up with all the sniffing and nose action? Drugs, allergies, what? (I probably would've asked by now. Only because, it sure seems uncomfortable and I would want him to have some relief.) |
Kalekona | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:55 am     They already talked about his allergies...Jack even said he should try Claritin. and I do believe you are right wink LOL |
Cute1073 | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:58 am     i haven't read the whole thread here and i'm sorry if this has been mentioned but....kale I've HEARD Robert admit he's done a lot of coke. He talked about it in a way like it's been very recent. He says he doesn't really like pot but does like the white (cocaine) and then proceded to explain how much and how often he used to do it. Obviously he's not a heavy user now...i don't see him going through any kind of withdrawl (or maybe he did in the hotel...who knows). But, he touches his nose and sniffs ALOT and that is the symptom of cocain use past and present. Although he may also have allergies which makes the problem worse. But i've heard them talking about taking allergy medicine and if it's not really working for him well....makes you suspect another cause |
Gina8642 | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 01:02 am     I have no idea if Rob used alot of cocaine or not. I'll tell you that his snuffling and sneezing sounds exactly like my brother's allergies. So, unless my brother had a cocaine problem since the age of 5, I think Rob's 'symptoms' are perfectly compatible with allergies. |
Kalekona | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 01:12 am     Thanks gina that's what i've been trying to say. Cute you do know that all allergy medicines do not work for everyone don't you? Allergies make you touch, wiggle and rub your nose all the time, allergies also cause small sores just on the inside of your nostril (from nasal drip and wiping your nose a lot) they are extremely painful and like any sore or scab tend to draw your attention to them. The fact that robert has said he did coke does in no way prove or even suggest that is his problem. I could give you a list of things that would irrate Roberts allergies.. the big one is perfume, mold (the house did have a leak during BB1 correct?) dust, smog, grass, even the chemicals for the spa and pool can irratate nasal allergies. And the list goes on. I think assuming Robert had some horrible cocaine habit and has destroyed his nose is just wrong and disrespectful for his daughter. There is a huge difference between use and abuse and too many here made a giant leap from one to the other. |
Costacat | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:24 am     Robert has repeatedly said he has allergies. As a San Diegan who doesn't have allergies but who heads to LA regularly, I can testify to what the air quality up there can do to your sinuses. PROLONGED cocaine usage can damage your nostril membranes. But you need to define prolonged (generally, constant and continuous use for years). As someone who was previously involved in the drug scene (and I'm not specifying how or what), I can testify to the fact that "snuffling" generally occurs DURING cocaine usage. Not days (or even weeks) afterward. Again, your opinions are your own. And your own personal experiences may provide a different perspective. But I think it is very wrong to state that Robert is an addict, that he is a tweaker, without having any proof. Pure speculation on THIS subject is just as bad as Alison's speculation on Nathan's sexual orientation. All of the above is my opinion, some of which is rooted in fact. You are entitled to your own opinion. |
Squaredsc | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:43 am     this bold print is making me feel like im on drugs. |
Jamaum | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:46 am     I feel like I am being yelled at even if its not all capital letters... ;) |
Outlawout | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:05 am     The point here that both sides seem to keep missing is the kernel of this argument. There's no doubt that drugs and alcohol when used by people genetically or social predisposed to addiction mess up their lives in a HUGE way. And there is nothing more tragic. However there are MANY people who use pot and alcohol who never make that transition. It's post hoc ergo hoc to argue that most people who became serious addicts all started with pot and alcohol, because you could also say that they all had hair. One doesn't necesarily connect to the other. Many more people with hair don't become addicts. The point (And I do have one) is that ANYTHING that people use to escape can be taken too far by vulnerable personalities and ruin people's lives. Gambling, sex, shopping, working. I mentioned Big Brother earlier. I've seen many peole post that they are posting from work and hoping not to get caught. I'd bet dollars for donuts that one or two folks in the history of TVCH have seriously messed up their careers and /or relationships from spending way too much time here and on the feeds. Does that mean TVCH is wildly dangerous? No! Of course I'm not suggesting that drugs and TVCH are the same thing,certainly drugs and alcohol are far more volitile, but it's a slippery slope if we start trying to make distinctions between some things people do for fun and others since they can all eb taken out of control. I know way more people who have screwed up their lives from workaholism than drugs or alcohol and no one would suggest that work, on it's own, is a terrible, dangerous thing that we should all shun. Some of you may not see why people would want to entertain themselves those ways, but there are tons of people in the world (including the HGs) who couldn't begin to imagine why anyone would want to spend 8-10 hours a day hanging a round a big brother website. They would call you mentally ill. I'm just saying we need a little perspective. I am frightened by kneejerk dogmatism. |
Kaili | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:59 am     I just want to add a few comments before this thraed dies off- and I haven't even finished reading it all yet.
Quote:Okiekerriella Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:20 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree as I said in my post, Social use of pot may not seem like a big deal, and for the majority of people that use it its not and never will be. BUT there are ALOT of people out there that are adversely effected by drug use and to see the HG trivialize it just makes me sick.
The same could be said for alcohol. In fact, alcohol related deaths by FAR exceed marijuana related deaths on a yearly basis. My sociology prof a few years ago put up stats for drugs and related deaths. Alocohol was highest. Marijuana was lowest. It's not that marijuana isn't being used and alcohol is. Sure alcohol is used more, but themn there are bars where people sit around and drink the night away, then hop in their car at 2 am to drive home.
Quote:Woodpecke® Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:32 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bragging on national T.V. that you've tried almost every illegal drug is not only stupid, but classless and embarrassing.
Here I have to agree. Marijuana vs other drugs issue aside, people who brag about it have always annoyed me. It has always seemed like they are trying to prove themselves to everyone else. One example- this girl I had just met was going on and on about how cool smoking pot is and how she does it so much, etc. Yeah, this was in my living room and not TV but I was talking to her and saying how the people who I find really obnoxious are people who make a big deal about how "into the scene" they are, how cool it is, how alternative and rebellious they are, especially when they then drive off in a car paid for my mom/dad to an apartment paid for by mom/dad to smoke the pot bout with the money that mom/dad sent. Oopps- turned out this girl was driving an Acura and lived in a condo in Phoenix bought by her parents. I didn't know she was "one of them"- she was a friend of my roomates- not mine. Anyway, I just don't see a point in making a big deal about what you do or have done. However, it is something they have in common in the house and it's something to talk about. They can't get in trouble for talking about it. Some could be lying just to fit in with the rest.
Quote:Willsbills Monday, August 04, 2003 - 10:55 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter how minor you think it is drug use is drug use and it is bad. Someone, somewhere gets hurt in the long run and yeah, that includes "medicinal" reason too.
I don't believe "drug use is drug use". It's so important to look at things on a case by case basis. This kind of thought is why we have people in prison for 10 years or more for having a little bag of pot on them. These people aren't hardened criminals. There are people in prison longer for smoking a few joints than some rapists go to prison for. LSD is considered "attempted manslaughter" and is charged based on weight in Wisconsin. That means if you have it on sugar cubes they will weigh the weight og the sugar as well and one sugar cube of LSD could have you in prison for who knows how many attempted manslaughter charges. People overreact. Most anything in the world, in my opinion, is okay in moderation. I never tried and harder drugs- taht is, ones taht are considered highly addictive like cocaine. I was scared to even though I saw people using it in moderation to the point where they could still take it or leave it. Outlawout- good post, good points. I'm not going to expand only because I'm thinking this is going to be a really long post anyway. Final thought- caffeine is a drug too. How many people here have had their morning fix today? |
Lurknomore | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:26 am     Willsbills...I'd like to make a comment to something you said late last nite about drugs not being alright for "medicinal use." This was an important enough post that I wanted to wait till I was awake and could give a good response. Now I'm not sure if you were talking only pot, since someone had made a reference to that earlier post, or all pain meds etc, but let's say that's something I think is easy to say in theory but if you or a loved one were walking in other shoes it might become a VERY different story. First, are you aware that if someone has a legitimate medical problem and takes certain drugs it is a proven fact their body processes it differently from those using "for fun." I'm gonna go 2 directions. First, I want you to think about the person you love most in this world. God forbid they were violently ill and the ONLY thing that gave them any relief would be pot. Not a high, not a buzz...but removal of violent nausea and vomiting. If you watched this person you love affected would you still feel this strongly that since something exists that CAN help them feel better it shouldn't be given to them? Second direction I'd like to go...pain management. I take narcotics every single day. (none of the ones in the thread title though lol). I don't take them for a "high" which is a good thing, because I never get one. I take them so I can walk and lead a somewhat normal life. Without them I would sit in a chair and cry in agony. They severed a nerve in my back during surgery and I've worked for years to find some balance of pain and normalcy. Thank God I have an excellent pain management MD. But many friends have erroneously thought the pain pills effect me the same way they would a ailment free person. Some still do, although they agree there is no change in my personality, and I've even shown one studies where the percentage of addiction of people with LEGITIMATE reasons for taking the medications is less than 1%, primarily because you never get the "high or euphoria" some use drugs for because it is simply working on the pain and your body processes it differently. So in your theory of drug use not being all right, it would be better for me to sit in a chair in agony, not have a life, not work, etc? I think most things in life come with gray areas and two sides and we should remain open to them even if we have been fortunate enough not to need them. I wanted to post this as food for thought. As I said in an earlier post I've watched a few dear friends have their lives ruined by drug and alcohol use...so I think the better question to ask is are drugs helping or hurting a person live a normal life or are they preventing that? That's a pretty good litmus test for most things. |
Katlady53 | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:33 am     "I think most things in life come with gray areas and two sides and we should remain open to them even if we have been fortunate enough not to need them." Amen, Lurknomore! Until you've walked in another man's shoes... |
Willsbills | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:24 am     Lurk, I don't like to talk about myself too much. But in this case to answer this post I will. The person who is violently ill,that you described? I know that person very very very well. She is me. I have such severe muscle and nerve pain/damage due to disease that I take approx.31 pills per day. i have never taken illegal drugs (pot) in this case and after the many, many, many surgeries I have had I have only had mybe 10 pain pills within an average of 2-3 surgeries a year over 7 years. I have a disease, though it is not AIDS effects my body almost exactly the same way. Actually, I have 6 different diseases that cause, neurological, gastrointestianl,reproductive, joint and muscle damage. This is not a joke. I have lost as much as 30 pounds in a month because of the inability to even drink water. Being hospitalized as doctors came from all over to help. I have not had a "normal" life in years. I can't even remember what it was like to go out to dinner and a movie and not be breathless from the pain. Doctors will offer me pain meds for pain and I say I'd rather not. I am very aware of what drugs used for pain do to the person that uses them and I am aware that the effects ARE NOT to get high. I realize that they are used for pain relief. Doctors have told me that they know pro-football players that couldn't handle my pain and that I should be very proud that I have such a high pain tolerance. I work, go to school, have a somewhat active social life, go to church, volunteer with those that are ill and dying (AIDS and Cancer). My best friend died of Cancer and I watched as she took those final breaths. I know what kind of pain some people go through. I do not take pain meds. Sorry, if it sounded like I was bashing folks who do. I actually, meant illegal drugs. If you are taking pain meds so you can function when you are sick, that's for each person to decide. I choose not to. I'm not a martyr. And As God as my Father I'm not making up my own situation. I just know the effects they will have in the long run, even for people who need them. I just choose to not go down the road of pain-killers or pot. Pain killers aren't against the law, though some doctors had them out like candy. I should know, I've worked for them for years. Not saying your does, but some doctors don't want to deal so they hand out narcotics for anything. Again, Lurk, not saying yours does. And as for pot, well, that is against the law and I have no interest anyway. Just like I don't drink. We all handle life differently and have different levels of pain tolerance. Just wanted to let you know i have been and remain violently ill most days. I just keep fighting because I want to trust God will show me when I can no longer do it with Him and I need a different approach. Of the 31 pills I take, none are pain-killers. I'm not judging it was just my opinion about illegal drugs. I guess I should have clarified that. |
Kalekona | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:53 am     Pot for medical reasons is now legal in several states, are you still going to call those who take advantage of that drug addicts? Condem them for it? What about those who must take anti-convulsants daily, or insulin? Anti-depressents? Should they not do so because the drugs have an effect long term? Or shoould they choose to live life as normally as possible using what ever means is at their disposal? Willsbill- I'm sorry for your troubles but I fail to see how making yourself suffer rather than get relief is a brave thing? I think it is a waste, if you could be living a normal pain free life and choose not to..well I don't understand it. (If the medicantion makes you ill or unable to function that's a different animal all together.) (now I do understand cancer patients that refuse Chemo drugs when they know it is only going to give them limited additional time while leaving them sick and lethargic.) I don't think anyone should have to live with pain if they don't have to. |
Crossfire | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:00 pm     I hope I am not stepping on any toes with a question, but what is wrong with pain killers? When in pain they seem like a pretty good idea to me. Are they unique in some way that I have not considered? |
Lurknomore | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:40 pm     Wills I'm so glad you posted. I seldom try to change anyone's mind here (contrary to what a few think lol) but generally just share my opinion. But I do believe sometimes where are led where we should be to get or give certain lessons or guidance. First I'm SOOO sorry to hear about all the problems you are having. I know all too well how stressful it can be and you have my heartfelt empathy. However, why in the world would you not seek out the most you can do RESPONSIBLY and reasonably. I don't know how much research you have done about the modality of pain, but between books and the computer there are tons of well written and proven books and studies on this, and an amazingly intelligent pain board. The first lesson that I regretfully ignored when the pain took hold was to nip it early. Pain learns pain. It is like a snowball...and avalanche. The more pain you have the more it replicates as your body tries to fight it. By not taking pain pills the only thing you, or anyone, is accomplishing is letting your body learn pain and it is a million times harder to remove it down the road. Oh if only I knew then what I know now, my life would be very different. Even though we seem to come from different perspectives, I believe in Spiritual healing. But I also believe that we can heal through a combination of all the tools God gave us. Remember all drugs are based on plant derivatives that came to us naturally. We were not only given what we needed to survive for our hungers ie food, water, what we needed to make shelter, we were given these cures for many ailments. You say you know the effects drugs would have on you down the road, but I would respectfully ask how much research, with an open mind, you have done on it? Those taking long term use of narcotics do develop a physical dependence but that can be tapered off within a very short period. There is virtually no addiction as is commonly used. True I don't love all the chemicals I put in my body, but I am totally convinced that sitting in a chair and living a useless life filled with nothing but pain would be more of a risk, physcially and emotionally. If I might I'd suggest doing some research on this and seeing a REPUTABLE pain specialist. Are you aware that depending on your diagnosis there are now many non-narcotics that can greatly reduce pain? Perhaps you could find a middle ground you feel comfortable with and suffer less. Because the one thing I don't understand from your post is why you would choose to live in a higher level of pain then you have to? You wrote one thing that made me write this post: "I have not had a "normal" life in years. I can't even remember what it was like to go out to dinner and a movie and not be breathless from the pain. Doctors will offer me pain meds for pain and I say I'd rather not." I don't understand why you would sacrifice so much of your quality of life without at least exploring options, and I hope it's something you will consider. And a reputable pain management specialist will carefully diagnose each specific problem and review all options with you, not just dispense pills like candy, but prudently and after a full discussion of them. Also keep in mind the stresses that pain puts on your body can be significant and not reducing it can cause more problems. Again I learned all this the hard way, but mercifully I learned it. I hope you will at least consider some of this, and maybe do some homework, because there's not need to live as you are living IMHO. My very best to you will all of this, and I hope I didn't stick my nose in where it wasn't wanted...but my intent was only to try to help. |
Katlady53 | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:57 pm     Crossfire, I dunno. I have a bad back, and when I'm in pain, I take pain meds or muscle relaxers. I work two jobs and have a house to run. I can't afford to be flat on my back in pain. Alternatively, my girlfriend's husband has been suffering with colon cancer for the past year 1/2, and he refuses pain medications. He's sick from chemo, has a huge tumor bulging against his spine, can barely walk and he's nauseated all the time...yet he won't take drugs for any of it. I guess I just don't understand some things. |
Willsbills | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 02:06 pm     Again, I was actually speaking of heavy narcotics on a regular basis and illegal drugs. If I am volunteering, working full time, maintaining my home, going to schoolfull time and have an active (when time permits) social life then why do I have to be accused of being ignorant about research? I challenge alot of people who aren't ill to do all that I do. I do not criticize my patients with cancer and HIV for choosing narcotics. Again, it is my choice not to use them. I actually go to doctors that are some of the leading researchers in healthcare today. I have brought things to their attention that has literally saved my life.I study everything my doctors do and we work as a team and come to a conclusion together. In the origianl statement I meant "pot" for medicinal purposes and regular use of heavy narcotics. The rest of the illegal drugs I just meant it was plain wrong! I have certain conditions that would need heavy heavy narcotics to help pain at all. Mostly my pain couldn't be helped by narcotics. I am aware that there are other ways to manage pain. I do them. Remember I do take 31 pills a day so some of that helps pain but isn't a pain-killer. I'm not trying to be brave. I'm not trying to say anything other than when you use drugs long term there are side-effects and illegal drugs? Someone, somewhere will get hurt regardless of your intentions at the time of use. I am breathless, but it passes and you would never know it. And by "normal" I meant without difficulties that need medical attention. That will never happen. My condition will always need to be managed by a doctor until God sees fit to do otherwise. I take very few after surgery because I simply don't feel pain after surgery as some do. So, why take them? Toughen up. If it keeps me in bed then heck yeah, but otherwise why put additional chemicals in my body that aren't actually taking the cause of the pain away but cutting off the pain receptors. This is the first I have heard of opiates not being addictive. They cannot be used long term without changing dosages to maintain pain control. Are we speaking of pain-killers in other classes, exclusively or were opiates included in this statement? |
Denecee | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 02:22 pm     I don't think that Nexell2 actually read the above posts because if she had then she might not think it was boring. I love reading posts that respect other people's opinions and experiences. |
Lurknomore | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 02:27 pm     First, I'm very sorry if anything in my post made you feel like I was implying this: "why do I have to be accused of being ignorant about research?" It just seemed from much of what you posted that you had not read the current data and I wanted to let you know what was out there, as I've studied it extensively. You said "This is the first I have heard of opiates not being addictive." There is a clear difference between being chemically dependent to a drug versus psychologically addicted. For example, I could not stop my medication cold turkey because I would have physical symptoms. But I am in no way addicted in a psychological way, and I have frequently tapered off and stopped medications to try other ones to determine the ones that worked best for me. The most important point I tried to make is that pain learns pain...and one of the most important reasons to manage pain with medication is that it snowballs and becomes much worse. For example, had I taken medication when this first presented itself, I would most likely have a significantly lower degree of pain. Regretfully I was of the bite the bullet and this too shall pass school and by the time I learned this it was too late. I pray for the day they create one pill or shot that repairs nerve damage. I've heard rumors that the Christopher Reeve group has made great strides on that. But until then FOR ME (and I respect others choices to decide what is right for them) I'd rather treat and control the symptoms and live a somewhat normal life rather than enduring more than I must. What I get it down to is bad enough. Lastly, as for long term use it is generally the binding agent that creates problems in the body not the narcotic. I take Tylenol 3 every day...years ago I discussed my concerns about the codiene build up over the years. My MD told me that drug quickly clears out of the system, but the tylenol must be watched very closely. Because of this I have liver tests several times a year. And the good news is should it ever effect it the results are reversible as long as it is caught and medications change. Like all things it is a trade off...but I still say I live a healthier more productive and definately happier life than if I had to live with nothing but 100% debillitating pain 24/7. But Wills I hope you didn't feel I was judging you in any way, shape, or form. I just was trying to pass along some of what I learned. |
Willsbills | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 03:31 pm     That's cool Lurk. Seems like we always end up on the heavy controversy boards together. If you live with pain like you said you do, then you know it's easy to become defensive because people don't understand. I guess I was thinking also about the effect alot of drugs have on my stomach and that makes that problem worse. I'm sorry if you guys felt like I was saying all drugs are bad. After I made the psot that started all this way back. I was going to edit it and then alas it was too late. You better mean what you say around here Yes, dear Lurk, it is a trade off. If your sick your sick and by all means what works for you is what's best. I'm like you I taper off drugs when I have the ability to try something new. Yes, be very careful, as you said about the Tylenol. I had problems with my liver and none of the doctors could figure out what was wrong. I tapered off one of my drugs and ta-da that was the problem. It's all a big mess. Hate to hear you are sick or injured as well, but at least we in the boat together. Not that helps much, but at least we know we ain't crazy Have a good day Lurk! |
Bohawkins | Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 03:29 pm     I would love for all of you to be able to experience a few squares from the fantastic batch of brownies I made up last night. Ummmm good! Good for what ails you! |
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