Archive through August 19, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Who is the BIGGEST chauvinist ...... Robert or Jee?: Archive through August 19, 2003

Chief1

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert and Jee are consistently showing just how chauvinistic they are. I really don't know who is the worst, or if they are just cancelling each other out! (Notice how BB never shows this stuff on TV.) Robert's attitude towards women is disgraceful, as he calls them every vulgar name ever created. He seems to believe that women are for his pleasure only. Doesn't he realize that his daughter will grow up to become a woman, and will deserve her respect? Jee is in constant competition with every woman in the house, for his "honorable" sake (I guess) because he must never come in 2nd to a woman. He has gone along with every ruthless statement Robert has mentioned, and even thinks the "brotherhood" would be better without "those women." Jee hates it when Jun gets the last word, and even stated he could not even go HOME if he was evicted before her. What kind of honor do EITHER of these guys have?

Katlady53

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Chief, IMHO neither of them has much honor, but Robert gets my vote for being the worst. His name-calling is disgraceful. I wonder how many dates he'll get when he's out of the house? I can't imagine why any enlightened self-respecting young woman would want to date someone like him.

As for Jee, if I hear "my girl" one more time...

Jolly_Penguin

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jee's bigotry against women seems more culturally engrained and less malicious, unlike Robert's bigotry. I think Robert's is more personal (he has issues) and Jee's is just the way he was raised.

Chief1

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Katlady and Jolly_Penguin, you both hit the nail on the head! Katlady, Robert really THINKS he's going to be famous outside the house! lol Jolly_Penguin, thanks for bringing that out about Jee's culture. That's true, but I wish he didn't have to be so blatant about it. As a man, these two can't hold a candle to those of us who consider ourselves respectful.

Crossfire

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert seems to be heading toward infamous if anything.

Nanc

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 12:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Although I'm not a real fan of Jee to win the game, he did impress me the other day. Robert and Justin were teasing him about being p***y-whipped. Robert went ranting, as usual, about how you have to lay down the law with women. Jee said to Justin that when you find a good woman, and you love her, then you want to treat her nice, and also I enjoy her company.

Darkhorse19

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 01:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I must be the only male poster on this site. I do agree with Jee that it feels degrading to lose to a woman and 99.9% of men would probably agree with me.

Kaili

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 01:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And the other .9% would have a lot of respect for a woman who can hold her own in a competition. And rather than being upset by it, they would accept their loss and move on.

From http://www.brainydictionary.com

Degrade

(v. t.) To reduce from a higher to a lower rank or degree; to lower in rank; to deprive of office or dignity; to strip of honors; as, to degrade a nobleman, or a general officer.

(v. t.) To reduce in estimation, character, or reputation; to lessen the value of; to lower the physical, moral, or intellectual character of; to debase; to bring shame or contempt upon; to disgrace; as, vice degrades a man.


To be "degraded" by a woman means that you feel you are better than her in the first place. I don't feel degraded if I lose anything to a man, and I don't think less of any man for losing anything as long as they tried their best. I would hope/wish it would go both ways.

Pantageas

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 01:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Too many youner "men" today feel that their importance is determined by how badly they can get away with treating women. Look at the word "pimp". A few years ago, be referred to as a "pimp" or "pimping" would be consider a HIGHLY derogatory insult. It meant "scum, lowclass individual", "outlandish" or "cheap". Somehow though, it's being used colloquially nowadays to mean "cool person", "stylish" or "lavish".

To disagree with George Benson, I hope to HELL that THESE children are NOT our future...

Chief1

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Darkhorse19, I am a man, too, which is why I felt it necessary to post my opinion. I can see from responses that others do agree, in more ways than one. I just don't see the point in degrading (thanks Kaili) women that way. I was brought up to respect them, and so were my brothers. Mentally and physically, it's tough for either gender, as some folks have stronger attributes than others. However, women can be strong competitors in games the same way men can. In this Big Brother game, both genders have an equal chance, so may the best person win.

Laffy

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
there's an old saying that "a dog is man's best friend." but the reality is that a WOMAN is a man's best friend, and there's nothing degrading about losing any competition to a friend, male or female, as long as you do your best.

sometimes you actually find yourself rooting for her to beat you because she is that important to you. and yes, you even welcome the grief she gives you for losing.

dark, when you find the right woman you'll understand.in the meantime, no explanation will convince you. in time you'll see.

Spwisc

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think some people are just taking this all too seriously. Robert and Jee (as well as all the hg's) do not act the same on the outside. They've been cooped up so long that you just have to let the negative comments slide. The same as people have let Erika's racist comment slide. Just shake your head and look at another feed and know that Jee's girlfriend sure doesn't see him as a mcp

Katlady53

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Spwisc, I always HOPE the HG's don't act the same way on the outside. Lol In the case of Robert, I REALLY hope it! Lol

Csnog

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It seems to me that Jee is much worse when he hangs around Robert. He doesn't use that language around Erika or Jack.

Get him away from ROBERT!

Gina8642

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
To me a chauvinist is someone who thinks women should be second place in the world, that they shouldn't work if a man can do the job, they shouldn't earn what a man does, etc. This is different than misogyny which is simply hatred of women.

To me, neither Robert or Jee is is a chauvinist. neither seems to say women shouldn't work, women shouldn't earn what a man does etc.

Jee comes from an old fasion family, but as an individual doesn't seem to want women to hold a subservient position. He may do some stuff which he is unaware of, but if pointed out to him, I think he would apologize and try to do differnt. Jee has repeatedly shown an interest and willingness to help out with household chores. He's shown an interest in learning how to cook so he can do so later for 'his girl'. At, 21 and 23, I don't mind the 'girl' part either.

Robert, IMO, is a misogynist, not a chauvanist. Robert has repeatedly refered to women in general as 'the b$tches' and 'wh$res'. This often pops out of his mouth out of the blue at the beginning of a coversation. This to me, is simply hatred. He doesn't seem to have any problem with women working. I've never seen him make any comment about women not working etc or not being able to do a job as well as a man. Yes, he has said he just wants to use women and they just want money. IMO this is NOT chauvanism, but simple hatred of women (misogyny).

Karuuna

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 02:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Darkhouse wrote:
99.9% of men would probably agree with me.

Yup, which is exactly why I'm no longer married. There aren't a lot of guys out there who can deal with a woman more successful than they.

Disclaimer: This is not intended to judge ALL men, nor do I know if the percentage is correct. I just find that it is very difficult for MOST men I meet to handle.

Stro27

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think they truly believe half the things they say. It's nothing more than macho guy talk. The type of things you say around the guys. You don't see Robert or Jee talking that way when they're around the women in the house or treating the women in the house like they're inferior.

Ginlei

Monday, August 18, 2003 - 04:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I can see Robert talking like this regardless of who he is around. Jee seems to try to hold himself to some form of respect when he is around others. I know some people who talk one way when they are around their friends and talk a totally different way when around strangers/aquitances. It may be just a way for Robert and Jee to let off steam

R151996

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 02:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert--by a landslide.

Jee said he wouldn't mind for the woman in his life to make more money than him, and Robert nearly went ballistic calling Jee a ***** for thinking that.

Justin was almost as bad as Robert in this conversation, saying Jee's woman would be driving a Mercedes while he drives a piece of junk.

Wendo

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 02:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hmmm, let me think...who do I think is more of a chauvinist...gee...hmmm...I'm going to have to go with Robert.

Ricki23

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 06:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I want a man like Laffy!

Robert by a landslide. Right now I am hoping, hoping, hoping that Jack wins next week and puts up Allison and Robert. That would be good tv!

Katlady53

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Does anybody think that Robert's bravado is due to his insecurities? I can't think of any other reason for why he'd talk the way he does. It's not like he's good looking or anything.

Shainie28

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Spwisc - you guys are putting WAY too much thought into idiotic little boy comments. And like Robert or Jee are the only 2 men in the world with egos and big mouths.

As a woman, I think the things Robert says are idiotic, but I don't get all hufffy and shocked about it.

It's common for a man to not want to get beat by a girl - like that's something new.

What comes around goes around, and Robert will pay for his comments one way or another. <>

Would you gals be spouting off so much if the gals were doing male bashing?


(sd)

Marymary

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spwisc says: "Robert and Jee (as well as all the hg's) do not act the same on the outside."

Maybe...but I'll bet the family farm that Jack comes real close.

Philamom

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 07:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I absolutely agree with you, Katlady. Robert is one of the most insecure people I've ever seen. I'm sure you've all met people like him -- full of bravado, cocky, arrogant -- but down deep they have the worst self-esteem imaginable. In a way, I feel sorry for people like that. Something in their life must have been terribly wrong. (I'm not trying to excuse Robert's behavior, I'm just saying that I think he's carrying around some baggage that affects how he acts.)