Archive through August 20, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Once again Big Brother has set out to prove that nice guys finish last.: Archive through August 20, 2003

Bb4_Fan

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Guys like Robert who do not know the definition of honor or integrity or Ali and Jun who only know how to be deceitful, cruel, dishonest and shameful will probably win. Even Erika dropped the ball. Jack has stood by her, supported her and remained totally loyal to her. She is willing to dump him, and team up with the <m> that she hates.

Where does Big Brother find these people? It is my opinion, for purpose of ratings, I think Big Brother looks long and hard to find a dozen of the most unlikeable people. Physically attractive, but spiritual scoundrels. I find this to be short term thinking on the part of BB.

Each year the HG's are becoming increasingly bothersome, mean spirited, annoying, displeasing, distasteful, dreaded, icky people. For a little contrast they toss in an older person, and maybe a likeable someone. The latter have almost no chance of remaining in the game until the end. They are just the ones that the viewing audience cheers on, all the time knowing that there isn't a chance in hell that they'll even make the final 4.

Here we are in season 4, and the HG's are more loathsome, obnoxious and offensive then ever. It's getting old real fast. Does America really want to keep watching these types of people win $500,000... Do we really need to see evil win... are we losing faith in man kind?

This year I've watch so little of the feeds, just a fraction of what I watched in previous years. Big Brother doesn't care about what we think, or our opinions and feelings about the true nature of these people. Every day we get to watch the feeds and vent, but they don't listen. However programming of this type also diminishes our faith in human kind.

Was anyone besides me upset by the fact that they showed Rob having an honest moment with Erika, only to run to Justin and Jee and explain how he led the bit(# on. He used their real life situation to gain her trust so that he will be able to betray her. THAT IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, so why didn't we see that on the show? Instead Big Brother wants Robert, the man who considers all woman to be bit(#es and wh%re$ to be viewed as a nice, caring sensitive guy. Who knows, maybe Arnold shares Roberts' opinion.

After watching the show tonight, and noticing what they left out I realized how manipulative Big Brother is being with the VIEWERS. They do not live up to their name "Big Brother" when it comes to the HG's, but we the viewers are the ones being led by a nose ring.

Did America really select Robert for America's Choice? HAVING WATCHED THE FEEDS FOR THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS, I find that difficult to believe. Did they actually count the votes, or was Robert the intended recipient right from the beginning?

Jack has been the only honorable player... just like Roddy from last year, he hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of lasting in the game, but he has played the game with integrity. He has shown us that it can be done. Once again Big Brother has set out to prove that nice guys finish last.

I am one 'feeder' who is becomming increasingly disappointed by the way Big Brother is turning out.

Friktion

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BB4, I actually thought I had noticed something tonight. The powers that be seem to be deliberately showing all the women AT THEIR WORST (Ali and Jun manipulating, admitting it, etc.), and you're right, not showing Robert gleefully tearing down any female he can think of (except his beloved daughter). God, I hope his daughter never gets to read the live feeds and find out his real views on her sex. But to get back to my point, does anyone else feel the same? I don't see the men being portrayed in their very worst light yet ...

Ocean_Islands

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You can say that Robert 'led Erika on', etc., but Erika also nominated Robert.

Is this naturally in conflict with what they said to each other? I don't think so. It is a game, and games do not have to be played with hatred. They only have to be played. And they are both playing the game.

And let me add a little something: nice guys DO finish last. That's always been the nature of the world, and it's not going to change now.

Marymary

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I know that I am disappointed in the way they edit Robert to appear to be a loving father (he probably is) and a recovering alcoholic (he probably is, and good on him). BUT...the meanest, ugliest things come out of his mouth on a regular basis. And they never show that side of him. I guess if you were only watching the show you don't get to know that Robert seems to really hate women. I also am starting to smell a rat. It's too late for me to dump this show this year (I'm hooked) but I hope I can remember next summer how it feels to be manipulated by Big Brother. Perhaps I'll spend my time in a more uplifting activity. Hope springs eternal!

Cricket

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think Erika is betraying Jack at all. She's just covering the bases in the event Jack gets voted off. It's pretty much a given that she and Jack might be up against each other and one of them will go. If Ali and Jun are telling the truth, they both want to get rid of Jack.

Erika has to protect herself too if Jack should get evicted.

Planelady14

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think BB goes out of its way to find unlikable people. On the contrary, I think they have a hard time finding normal people. I, for one, would never agree to be sequestered for 3 months with total strangers....away from family, friends and my doggies, especially for $500,000. Maybe for 5 mil....but what they compete for is not a huge sum, especially in light of the humiliation all of them face at one time or another. Can you imagine being called a psycho ••••• in front of all of America?

In other words....I think anyone agreeing to do this show in the first place is a bit....off center....or very, very desperate for fame, which is a sickness in and of itself if you have no talents.

Teddysmom

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BB is doing a great job manipulating us! I have watched and followed the feeds and I know Robert is scum but even I was crying tonight watching him in the DR! Ouch, I can't believe I admitted that!

Darkhorse19

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BB4fan you should realize that it is a game and in order to be a good player you must lie.
Also, if you have so many problems with it why don't you just stop watching it and cancel you live feeds. I am sick of people complaining about the show and still watch it 3 times a week and buy live feeds.
Must not be that bad of a show if you spend three hours a week watching it and spend your money to watch it behind the scenes

Widowswalk

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
BB4- Arnie mentioned in his recent article that if he put 12 nice people in the house, nobody would watch. Arnie is a business man as all tv execs' are and has to show CBS good ratings or be cancelled. Along with the cancellation would be the cancellation of his weekly paycheck. If I were Arnie, I would have to put the same kind of people in the house(minus a few alpha males and females). As for Roddy, in my opinion he was a mind (F). I don't know any other way to discribe him, but then I liked none of the top players in BB3(except Amy) including the saintly Jason who followed Dani around like a dog. To sum up BB4, Arnie must put these kind of people in the show because he knows not enough people will watch otherwise. For those who are greatly disturbed by the show, I can only advise not to watch it.

Smokey

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Teddysmom--I cried, too. LOL Then I was sort of observing myself crying and listening to BB and the background music they were playing as Robert cried in the diary room was enough to make it 10 times worse! It was this dramatic, sad, sad, music. I felt like a goof, but then again, I also think it was genuine. Everything Erika has said about him says that he truly adores his daughter and that he is a very emotional person.

Augiedoggie

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Robert's pre-teen girly tears are as phony as his shuck & jive "one for all-all for one" claims of support for the Stooges 3.

He is weak and cruel.
His comments about the women in the house and the women he's dated show a near psychotic hatred of females.

It would be to the guests' strategic advantage to evict Justin but I'm hoping that the weasly little nose-picker goes out tomorrow.

Ericzj

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Roddy was "honorable?" Thank you, that was the best laugh I had all day.

Lilycakes

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 09:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
All I know is that I'm feeling manipulated. I sat there tonight watching the show exclaiming over and over to the two people I was watching it with that Robert is NOT a nice guy. Even I felt twangs of sadness for this most horrible of people the way he was being portrayed and weeping for his daughter. One single solitary redeeming quality does not make up for his overall personality. Sadists and serial killers can cry too.

Wendo

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bb4_Fan said, "Guys like Robert who do not know the definition of honor or integrity or Ali and Jun who only know how to be deceitful, cruel, dishonest and shameful will probably win. <snip>"

Bb4_Fan, did you mistake this show for Touched By An Angel? I mean, I know they both air/aired on CBS but one is a family drama while the other is a competition with very few rules.

The game of Big Brother is allowed to be played anyway the player decides. They can lie, or not lie. Deceive, or not deceive. Manipulate, or not manipulate. The rules have been clear since BB2. Honor and integrity? I don't recall those being requirements to play (and win) Big Brother? You may not like the way Ali and Jun have "chosen" to play the game, but they are allowed, if not encouraged, to play that way.

And that, I suspect, is what the true issue is. You don't like the way that many HG's choose to play. However, instead of just saying that, you claim it's because the people they choose for this show are, basically, crap people. We have no idea who these people are in real life. Sure, we can get an idea, but they are in an abnormal situation with a money reward in the end. As far as nice guys finishing last? Well, many felt Lisa was a nice person, and she won last year.

Also, if the house was full of honest HG, well, that'd be pretty boring to watch. Without conflict, lies and deception, there is no drama.

Additionally, Roddy was full of integrity? I'll agree that he didn't lie as much as other HG's during BB3. However, I do not agree he played with integrity, especially when he was nominated with Amy and she had POV. (But, BB3 is neither here nor there since it's over.)

Lastly, you said, "However programming of this type also diminishes our faith in human kind."

Faith in human kind is what you make it. If you're letting a game show such as BB affect your view of human kind, perhaps it's not the show for you any longer. We've got soldiers putting there lives on the line for us, firemen who do heroic actions, and many more. I choose to get my faith in human kind from these kinds of people. People who sacrifice themselves for others.

As far as BB, I choose to be entertained from it.

What555456

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It is important to remember that the purpose of this show is NOT the game. The purpose is NOT to be honest about the HG's. The purpose is NOT to have the best man/woman win.

The purpose of this show is, always has been, and always will be... to make money. Shapiro's job is not to be fair, nor show a fair portrayal of what is really going on. Shapiro's job is to make money by getting as many people as possible to watch the show, which translates into the price commercial time can be sold.

To expect fairness to win out over money is to forget this is a business.

To expect truth to win out over a good show is to forget this is Hollywood.

Lilycakes

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What has once again hit the nail on the head. There wouldn't be any show if we all liked the players. Arnold S. has done it again though with a level of mediocrity this time. We're still watching, we're still debating, we're still steadfast in our beliefs of who should win and Arnold doesn't give one hoot as long as the ratings are favorable and he and CBS are making money. Business--that's all folks.

Sanfranjoshfan

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 12:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ah, the magic of television....

Sunshyne4u

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I just felt sorry for Robert. He seems very emotional about his daughter and misses her so much. Interestingly the first thing I thought was "Did he miss her as much when he was choosing to be out partying and drunk for all those years in the past??"

I think not. His tears are from guilt, not anything more. It reminded me of an alcoholic I know who could also pour on the tears whenever they felt it was in their best interest to "appear" remorseful. We have all seen Robert crying multiple times in the house, he seems a unstable recovering alcoholic. I am surprised that his daughter wasnt taken away from him in the past considering some of the horrifying confessions he has made as to his drug use.

I will rip out my hair if he actually WINS this game...all he can talk about is going to VEGAS after the show. Not ONCE have I heard him talk about doing anything with his daughter if he wins.

Wendo

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 01:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I wanted to add something else about people feeling "manipulated" by BB about Robert; and that they were emotional and/or cried during his letter segment.

I agree, BB is choosing not to show Robert accurately. He's much more negative and disrespectful to women than how he's portrayed on the tv show.

I don't consider it necessarily a bad thing that people became emotional over that segment. What it tells me is that you're caring people, despite the fact you may not like Robert in many ways. You're human beings who have compassion for someone else who's upset, sad, whatever.

Is it manipulation by BB? Maybe. But I'm not being manipulated. I know how Robert behaves, I see him on the live feeds. Yet, that doesn't mean one has no compassion either. BB isn't going to change my mind about Robert despite the soft music, tears, and shots of his kid.

Yes, I teared up. It was very moving. Robert obviously misses his daughter very much and I can have compassion for that. But, as I said above, it doesn't change the way I think of him in the BB house.

Beruthiel

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I must be the most unfeeling person on the planet, because I sat back and thought to myself, what a self-centred son of a something, as Robert moaned and groaned in the DR.
The man CHOSE to be where he is, he left his daugher VOLUNTARILY to be on the show, for only a few short weeks, and he acted as if he had been imprisoned against his will for years of solitary confinement.
It was a ridiculous and overdone drama, and it was all about Robert.
I wanted to slap him silly.
The segment between him and Erika was a lot more genuine, and touching.
Most of all, I felt totally manipulated by BB, and I resent it intensely, because over and over again we - the viewers - are being led down the garden path by the producers.
I've criticised this BB from day one, and I never expected to become even more annoyed than I have been already, but if this fakery keeps up to the end, it will be my last year as a fan.
It was insulting to my intelligence, and insulting to real people who DO suffer from not seeing the ones they love, through no fault of their own.
What a cynical and hypocritical display by BB.

Pshaw! [For want of a more expressive expletive that would not be bleeped by the board!]

Ocean_Islands

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 03:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, it is fakery and manipulation if you believe that 'if you are no good you can't have emotions'. Robert does seem to miss his daughter and did cry when he received the letter. This actually has nothing to do with whether he is 'good or bad' as a person.

Obviously BB is going to exploit whatever emotional tricks they can for TV purposes.

And the criticism that 'if they loved their loved ones so much then why did they go away' has been heard before and is not without merit.

I think the main thing all this proves is that they are human like we are. Bad guys have feelings, too. It doesn't mean anything in particular; but you have to agree that some 'bad guys' don't have or express emotions and couldn't care less about their children. Robert does not seem to be one of these.

Tdot

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 04:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
For everyone that thinks they are being manipulated by CBS due to the editing job they've done, don't you think that perhaps the houseguests themselves are not who they actually are in person?

Has no one considered the fact that these people may be playing roles, even often acting in character?

Sure CBS makes Rob look great on TV but maybe he's not full of "psychotic hatred of females". Is that not an option? His character is clearly working for him so far, why change? For us, the internet-viewers? Pshaw!

Furthermore, for those who still feel "intensely manipulated" by CBS, do yourself a favor: turn it off and pick up a book about business and economics. Arnold's only meeting the demand that exists in this market - he's getting the high ratings for Big Brother he wants.

Finally, if you watch Survivor or The Amazing Race (or any other reality show), do you HONESTLY believe you're not being manipulated?

Bronxie

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Tdot, you are so right....These wanna-be actors take direction every day....they can bring on the tears, start dishing a particular HG, laugh it up on cue, switch sides regularly, and hop into various beds. BB wanted to make certain there was enough controversy, friction and sex appeal by initiating the "Exes" into the plot. However, as with professional actors, some of their real personalities show through.....Ali is a coniving, know-it-all who expects to win.

Mpls

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 05:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Berutheil. I mean its not like <M> is serving his country somewhere. He's on a freakin tv show.

Puzzled

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 07:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think part of the fun of watching BB is seeing through the manipulation that goes on.

Part of the fun of this board is that so many people catch on to it.