Archive through August 01, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1: Editing - What makes the 'Cut' (ARCHIVES: Archive through August 01, 2003

Gina8642

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris - some people have been beaten until they are dead because someone thought they were gay. Right or wrong, calling someone gay can have consequenses.

(I'm not saying something that severe will be the result here, but I don't think we should underestimate the seriousness of homophobia.)

Lurknomore

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And here I swore I was done...

Bastable first I asked YOU to picture something important in YOUR real life...not past BB's.

But to work with your examples let's go through them. "Like Amy being a drunk?" They showed Amy drinking to excess in the house. She did this and they portrayed her behavior in the house. "Like Krista being White Trash?" Do I even have to go there with this one? She mourned like someone died when a guy that held a knife to her throat got kicked out for it, and said no one in her life had treated her that well. She talked about her drug use and lifestyle and again they presented her actions. Gerry I don't recall being shown that way...just the handwashing stuff.

My point being they showed things these folks HAD done. Nate at no time said "I'm gay," yet they did a feature on Ali announcing he was. That is completely different.

Bluerose

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The more I speak on this, the less I know. I agree with both Maris and Sanfran, you both made excellant points. Now I'm gonna shut up about stuff I obviously know little about.

Lilycakes

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The strides that need to be made regarding homosexuality simply aren't there yet especially in the heartland (i.e. Oklahoma). YES, POSITIVELY, ABSOLUTLEY this needs changing BUT it should not be at Nathan's expense that this is done. Nathan didn't sign up to be a sacrificial lamb for a cause he doesn't believe in. Yes, he needs his eyes opened as does his community (probably) and most of the nation but he is no poster boy for the cause. The editing sucked.

Bastable

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Katlady53-- my family is like yours! And no, I wasn't thinking of you.

By the same token, I feel no need to protect my family from the realities of an enlightened society. If someone wants to say I'm gay on CBS, hey, I'm a grown-up, and so are my parents. They will have to deal. If I chose to be on a show whose chief conceit was to strip me of my privacy, then they would have to respect the consequences that I bring upon myself with that. Being grown-ups like me.

I'm with SanFran... the idea that his parents need protecting somehow plays into the notion that if Nate were gay, it would bring legitimate shame upon them.

C1mag

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok Gina has a good point. However, I'm still asking... when did they first show nate being a homophobe so that we could all get on the Karma train? We the internet viewers know he is a homophobe but what about 45 year old Milly Smith living in Dog Patch who doesn't watch it on the internet? How's she gonna know it's nothing but Karma?

Katlady53

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bastable, BB is one of my 74-year old mother's FAVORITE shows. I can't wait to call her tomorrow to discuss tonight's show. I am already predicting that she's immediately going to ask me if I think Nate is gay. Lol If I say, "What does it matter, Mom?" She'll say, "Well, if he is, it's just a shame because he's so cute."

Hey, we live in southern Illinois. What can I say?

Bastable

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1mag, I have seen you post that question several times, but I have yet to see why, for the purposes of this board, it is significant. Why should we focus on an incomplete picture if we know the complete one?

Are you saying that without his homophobic comments on public record that this accusation is damaging? Because doesn't that play into the homophobia that SanFranJoshFan was talking about--an acceptance that suggesting someone is gay is somehow a terrible slight?

Lurknomore

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bluerose why do you "know less?" I think we all can agree the points they made are right and no one should give a damn if someone is gay, straight or any combo. I know I have friends of all persuasions and ethnicities and I PERSONALLY hate prejudices of all kind.

But that said THEY DO EXIST, and tonight's segment was wrong to do to Nate. How has that changed? To me wrong is wrong and this will remain wrong with a capital W.

C1mag

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bas because if it's suppose to have been to create "karma" they didn't spell it out to the viewer. Instead it just looked like childish editing. Instead he looks like the victim without and explaination. It's sorta like Jee smoking. He feels bad his dad died of lung cancer but the irony in it is the fact that there he is puffing away.

Bastable

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I cannot blame CBS if it doesn't want to kowtow to cultural bigotry. Simple as that.

C1Mag, in a way, doesn't that make it easier on Nate? If people see this as Ali's childish outburst, doesn't that take the heat off him for providing an explanation for himself?

Lilycakes

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
For all the homophobe remarks that have been attributed to Nathan, I never saw a one. I'm not saying they didn't happen but this live-feeder was out ot the loop once again. All I have to go on is that remarks were made, they were freguent and they were derogatory

Crossfire

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry to back up so far, but this one has been rolling around on my mind, and I need to comment so it will go away.

Maris: "I cant imagine that it is worse to call someone Gay on tv than it is to call someone buzzard crotch."

Excellent point. I see this as reflecting worse on those who make the statements than the subject of those comments. Listening to Ali and Justin made them look ill informed, and I did not care at all for Jack's zinger either. If anything, they pull me closer to those being taken advantage of. Anyway, great comment.

Sanfranjoshfan

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1mag - "However, I'm still asking... when did they first show nate being a homophobe so that we could all get on the Karma train?"

I don't think they ever showed it on one of the tv broadcasts. But, does that really matter? "We" know he's homophobic and so if he leaves the house and some homophobe questions his orientation, then the Karma clicks in. I think that would still be true, even if we *didn't* know his stand on disowning gay children...that same ironic Karma would ensue.

Thorntara

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think everyone is taking Alison's gay comment regarding Nathan totally the wrong way, and that's unfortunate. The real issue here, IMHO, is that Alison thinks so much of herself that if a man doesn't want to have sex with her, he MUST be gay. I don't think it is a comment on Nathan, but a comment on Alison. As I said, JMHO.

C1mag

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OH you edited it before I was done posting. No read my stuff. I said right up front I don't see how this would tarnish him at all cause I don't see being gay as being a "bad" thing. However, the topic was editing and when someone suggested... Ok, it's not a bad thing she suggested cause really it's just karma hitting him. This is when I asked... "how is it Karma to the tv viewer when they never showed him bashing gays to begin with?" Hope that makes sense.

Watching2

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
FWIW - Whether we know it's a lie or not, it's no ones place to out someone but themself. Allie may have said it, just like Maris said, people here have wondered, but CBS didn't have to air it. I also noticed right after they showed her saying that, they switched to a shot of Nate shaving his arms. Now a lot of people know body builders, etc., do shave their body hair so their muscles will show better, but some of the guys on the LFP commented about Nate shaving his body and said something like what str8 guy does that? Well, Will did on BB2. And Bunky was totally hairy unless they shaved him - remember the CBS logo on his back? :)

I forget the word that was used in a magazine I was reading today, but it was about how many str8 men have taken on doing things once which were thought of as only "gay." A lot of the younger generation (except for these houseguests!) are much more open and not worried about stereotypes and are more open to being stylish, etc.

Obviously, no stereotpes hold true for any group, but unfortunately, they stick around for a long time. I have friends who joke about not getting the "fashion gene" with their gay orientation.

If Nate hadn't been talking like he has been (unless he's been using it as a cover for the other hg - which I doubt)Bunky was worried at first about coming out to the other hgs.

We might live in the 2000s, but unfortunately, homosexuality is still a "hot topic" for a lot of the country. Not to get political either, but since the Supreme Court decision and marriage being legal for gays in Canada, a lot of churches and esp. politicians are having major conversations about it. Our president was just talking about it the other day.

Bastable

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thorntara, that is certainly true. Just as Nate assumes every woman wants to bed him.

Sanfranjoshfan

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh I get your question now, C1mag - I think the answer is that there would still be karma happening if people think he's gay when he leaves the house....*but* it wouldn't be "entertainment karma" that was simply presented by CBS as ironic editing. This would be "real" karmic irony that I was speaking of...not editing.

C1mag

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ahhh so sfjf you are saying it's just a personal feeling of glee that this homophobe might face karma? It doesn't matter how they edited it on tv you just personally feel a slight vindication for it?

I guess that works if you wanna feel that way but too bad they didn't edit it on tv so that the rest of the world could get on that train.

Thorntara

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The word you are looking for is "Metrosexual." That would be a wholly different sort of discussion.

Serate

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OK I haven't read most of the posts but here's my take on the Jun thing and the Nate thing.

First of all something personal. My mom always told me that when somebody said something bad about me they were just giving somebody else a break, and that somebody might not be as strong as me so to feel happy for the person who wasn't being picked on. AND that my family and friends loved me and not to worry about what others thought of me. Those who care about gossip don't matter to me, those who matter to me don't care what is said about me.

The Jun thing: IF she was bothered about America seeing her body in a string bikini WHY DOES SHE WEAR IT? She know's the camera is on her 24/7. Maybe they shouldn't have had a segment on her weight gain but then we all knew they were going to didn't we? [I read in a few different threads last night where it was just taken for granted that there would be a segment on her weight gain].

Now the Nate thing: Just before she announced Nathan was gay she asked Justin if he was gonna go blab everything they talked about, like he did before. He said no, no way. THEN all of a sudden she announces that she thinks Justin is gay. Maybe just MAYBE she was just trying to see if Justin DID repeat what she had said and maybe Justin knew she was going to say it???? [although if this is the case I feel it would have been better for BB to call her on it in the DR and show it tonight but what I feel doesn't count].

Most of all, IT'S JUST A GAME and the hamsters knew what they were signing up for and are getting paid for it.

Snee

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
watching2, i think the mag. word was probably 'metrosexual'.

Lurknomore

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thorntara I've been saying that all along, BUT the problem lies is that the majority of the TV viewing audience has no clue about that.

BTW much as I like Jack I never said his remarks were fine the other night either. It all boils down to BB getting trashier and trashier in what they put on the air...IMHO.

Watching2

Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thorntara,

Yep, you're right on both counts. :)