Who is the BIGGEST chauvinist ...... Robert or Jee?
TV ClubHouse: ARCHIVES: Big Brother USA 2003 General Discussions Part 1:
Who is the BIGGEST chauvinist ...... Robert or Jee?
Marymary | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:00 am     That was nicely put Philamom...you are a compassionate person. I've been trying to watch Robert carefully so that I might get to the bottom of my own bad feeling about him. This is the thought that keeps occuring to me...Evil DOES exist. |
Puzzled | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 08:56 am     Jee has asked Robert why he wouldn't want to treat a woman well if she were good to him and has no problem with an SO who has a good career and makes big bucks. Jee is 10 years younger than Robert. A certain amount of trash talk is commonplace among young 20-somethings, and a lot of it is just bravado or trying to get a reaction. Robert, IMO, is way past that and his misogyny is ingrained. Doesn't mean he can't change, but he's got a long way to go. |
Katlady53 | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:24 am     I'm inclined to think that some of Robert's problems were either the reason he started drinking, or they evolved when he was drinking. Either way, don't they say that your maturity level is arrested at the point when you started drinking? Maybe that's some of the problem. For instance, I have a friend who became an alcoholic when he was approximately 22-years of age. He stopped drinking a year ago. He's now 44 and still has lots of immature habits. I'm no expert on alcoholism (as is probably very obvious by now-LOL), but this is just something that occurred to me. |
Beruthiel | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 10:42 am     I saw this argument re arrested devlopment and alcoholism posted here a while ago. I've never heard of it, and I cannot imagine why it would be so, either. I'd like to see a study reference posted here before I'd accept the theory. As to Robert having low self-esteem and/or other problems that make him act the way he does - that's no excuse. There are millions of people who have all sorts of difficulties in their lives, or have had them in their past, who don't go around being virulent towards others. WE are responsible for how we behave, and Robert cannot or will not accept responsibility for what he does, it's always someone else's fault, and we've all met someone like him, if we live long enough, alas. So, in answer to the original question, Robert, because Jee seems to have cultural reasons for his attitudes, but he has learned enough, or has enough sensitivity, to realise that his traditional attitudes are not necessarily acceptable in the society in which he now lives. Robert is so egocentric that he hasn't learned much other than how to be charming when it suits him. Unfortunately, what is inside remains the same. |
Philamom | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:56 am     I haven't heard the argument about arrested development and alcoholism, but I have heard it regarding prison life -- that is, people who spend many years in prison are mentally the same age when they come out as when they entered. I'm not sure if the same is true for alcoholics, but I'll look around to see if I can find anything pertinent. |
Prisonerno6 | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:05 pm     Hmmm... Here we have drinking being used as a reason for Robert's behavior (arrested development?). We've see his alleged recovery used as a reason to admire him. Do we have any reason to believe Robert is a recovering alcoholic other than his word? Has Erika ever confirmed this or anything he's siad about his drinking? 'Cause, if his word is all there is, I have to take it with a grain of salt, all things considered. |
Kaili | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:07 pm     This book may cover what you guys are talking about, although I couldn't find any articles right away. Here's a excerpt from the description of the book which refers to this... The white-knuckle approach to staying sober does not confront the underlying causes of the problem -- the arrested development after years of intoxication, the powerful, long-standing patterns and cues of addictive behavior. In this ground-breaking book, Michael Clemmens offers a new model of treatment for long-term recovery that goes beyond the traditional "disease" paradigm. Getting Beyond Sobriety: Clinical Approaches to Long-Term Recovery |
Katlady53 | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:22 pm     All I know is that my alcoholic friend told me the stuff about arrested development. He said this is one of the things they learned in rehab. It sounded logical to me, but it seems like it would be more applicable to an alcoholic who started drinking at a very young age. |
Beruthiel | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:44 pm     I also did a search, and got the only references to any kind of developmental disorders from the NIAAA. There were two main focuses. One is the fact that alcohol has severe effects on developing fetuses, [which has no bearing on the cognition of adult alcoholics], and the other focus was on the brain damaging effects of acohol, since brain cells are actually killed by it. The references did not refer to arrested development, but only to the intelligence levels, so I think there may have been some confusion as to what 'arrested development' actually means. Alcohol abuse fries your brain, just as other drugs do, and so it affect how well the brain functions. It doesn't necessarily mean that you get stuck at the state of 'maturity' you had achieved when you began drinking, only that you end up a lot less smart after abusing alcohol than you were beforehand. The two things are not the same. Here's the ref: http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa53.htm |
Beruthiel | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:46 pm     By the way, I had an alcoholic Dad, who suffered a severe stroke in his forties, so I'm not exactly without personal experience. |
Gina8642 | Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 01:04 pm     There are endless examples of alcoholics who achieved high levels of sucess. Despite their dependance on alcohol they still managed to suceed in their careers. While I'm sure that alcohol probably didn't make these folks any smarter, it's not fair to say that alcohol arrests anyone. Alcohol is a depressant, and many use it to depress their anxiety and hyperness. In the short term it can actual help some people suceed (it gets them past fear of failure and performance anxiety, it may also help mask difficulties in social interactions). In the long term, IMO - it can destroy someone. |
Spunky | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 06:02 pm     ROBERT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Niceguy | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:09 pm     Robert definitely. That isn't to excuse Jee. Robert's daughter's mother was very attractive. She gave the impression that Robert can be very charming. |
Seanflynn2003 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:14 pm     Gina Winston Churchill was one (intense mental illness as well) |
Widowswalk | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:44 pm     This is just my opinion so bare with me. The question is who is the bigger chauvinist? I will say Jee. My reasons are that both men come from cultures where the man is dominate. However in Jee's case, his, in his own mind is a justified chauvinisim. In Jee's family I'm sure his father was dominate until his death and he probably takes this as a matter of course. Now Robert is more blatent in his conversation,but he has also suffered the loss of at least two relationships due to his chavinist behavior. In his heart of hearts he knows he was wrong, he said as much to Erika. Jee has only seen chauvinisim work pretty good in his own life watching his parents. Robert may be the more vulger but Jee is the more chauvinistic because he just knows he is right all the time. |
Gina8642 | Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 09:17 pm     LOL - Sean I almost put him in there - I'm just so long winded I thought I shouldn't add more. LOL |
Chief1 | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 07:25 am     Widowswalk, thank you for bringing that to our attention. In some respects, I do agree with you, especially since Jee's behavior is consistent and impulsive. After reading the live feeds, I couldn't find an instance where he 'accepted' someone else's opinion was brighter than his. It seems more like he HAS to be right all the time, and it infuriates him when others challenge that he may not be thinking correctly (about any given subject). Jun has a special knack for pushing his buttons (to get that reaction), because she knows this about him already. And, he has absolutely HATED when someone got the last word about something. Go ahead and include, also, that he displays too much resentment when any of the women win (anything) before he does. |
Gina8642 | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 08:59 am     Are you watching the same feeds as me? When Jee loses he rarely says anything. Usually he says he respects that folks have gotten where they've gotten. He even says that about Jun and Allie's game. He is annoyed that they've here by being floaters but he aknoleges that their strategy works as good as any other person's who is still in the house. He says they are here (final six) too. So, he respects that. Robert on the other hand insists any female who wins must of cheated. (and calls the a b$tch and a wh$re several times, just in case we are in any doubt that he hates the female in question.) I've never seen Jee be a poor sport about losing anything. Sometimes he'd go along with Justin & Robert's macho game, but he's always the first one of the three to back off. |
Cricket | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:37 am     I agree with Widowswalk. She hit the nail on the head. Jee has no regard for Jun. She even made a comment once like "No wonder I had no self confidence when I was with you." He has been getting cocky again. The question is who is the bigger chauvanist...that would be Jee. Now, if you asked who is the biggest jerk...that would be Robert. |
Beruthiel | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 04:18 pm     Eenie, meenie, miny, moe, Catch a chauvinist by the toe, If he hollers let him go, He won't win and get the dough.
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Cricket | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 05:38 pm     ROFL, Beruthiel. |
Chief1 | Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:01 pm     GOOD ONE Beruthiel! |
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