Archive through September 06, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: USA 2002:
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HG-DEBATE: My OPINION of Roddy:
Archive through September 06, 2002
Moderator | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:02 am     Debate your opinions pro and con of the character of the Houseguests. Keep in mind that we are discussing the one named characters being portrayed in an artificial environment, keep the real life person out of it, we don’t truly know the real people. No bashing of fellow posters will be tolerated. Language standards will be enforced. This thread is more loosely moderated but is not moderation free. Excessively harsh posts may be moderated. If you choose to defend a favorite houseguest in one of these threads don’t let yourself get emotionally hammered. Every houseguest has at least one defender who can emotionally detach themselves, if you can’t do that, stay out of these threads. |
Eden | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:09 am     umm.. since there are so many rules, I'm not sure how to post. I'll pass. God, forbid, I might offend someone! |
Annitar | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:54 am     Eh, he's gone now... let's just move him outside the house now! ;) |
Chiparock | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:08 am     Yes, FAR outside the house! |
Wendo | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:16 am     Actually, I would like to see this thread remain for a few days. I would like to hear opinions from posters (fans and non fans) on why they think Roddy's strategy ended up failing. In addition, what could've, or should've Roddy done differently to have kept himself in the game? I would argue that, up until his nomination with Josh, he was doing quite well. He seemed to have respect with in the house, as well as respect from the evicted HG's. What went wrong? Why did he end up being evicted? Was it his doing, the other HG's doing (other than the votes of course), or a combination of both? Anyone? |
Cameltoes | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:45 am     It's hard to pinpoint specific things that went wrong along the way since it all seems to go back to the very beginning. Even when he was nominated with Josh, he was a target. If Chiara hadn't gotten words, he could have been gone then. He was made safe from nomination when Eric and Lisa were up because of a deal with Gerry. That same deal came back to haunt him as it raised suspicions about his dealmaking since Roddy/Chiara was the more logical nomination. I just think that he thought he could get away with much more than he really could, particularly after he replaced Amy in the Original Six and the Cartel was formed. I don't think he accounted for others putting the pieces together and consulting with each other. He told Lisa that he assumed conversations were confidential. How could anyone living in that house assume such a thing? He could have taken down the Original 6 while using his charm to avoid being a target instead of inserting himself into the alliance and underestimating the others in the house. That way he could have worked both sides of the house pretty effectively. If he went to people like Danielle and Jason and made a plan to be the "mole" in the Six Pack group, it could have been Danielle/Roddy/Jason at the end. |
Cragantler | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 04:03 am     LOL! Eden, I think you may have missed the point. Mods are underlining that this thread is more LOOSELY moderated that regular threads, so your fear of being censored should be LESS here than elsewhere, see? Anyway... I'll take up that discussion, Wendo. I am a strong Roddy supporter, but do NOT believe his strategy was very good, nor that he had much of one at all. I believe he was relying mostly on his charm, intelligence, good looks, and psychology training to see him through, and was EXTREMELY lacking in the "street smarts" department that Dani so nauseatingly boasts. Except for his good body, Roddy and I have much in common. Unfortunately for him, he has yet to learn a lesson I have over the past few years. I believe Gene Hackman put it best in SUPERMAN as "Lex Luthor": "People are no damn good..." From the video segment with his parents, I can tell that he was not faking his charm. He was brought up that way -- to treat all people with respect and kindness. Roddy is an idealist, and he has yet to come to terms with the fact that he is in a small minority of folk. Conversely, Danielle, having been raised a minister's daughter, knows ALL ABOUT sin. She knows exactly the sort of creature that man is, and is better equipped to exploit man's self-centered nature to her own agenda. She's been watching her dad since childhood manipulating his flock through fear and intimidation into accepting the gospel. Fear is the most primal emotion, and she, like her father, can work it like a pro. And, like all ministers, you let others do the dirty work for you. Ministers let God be the bad guy. Dani uses Lisa, Jason, and Marcy. Both of them paint the same enemy: The Devil. Like Roddy, I have been a leader. I have defended and fought for causes on behalf of others and what's "right." And, like Roddy, I have paid dearly for my efforts. I have lost jobs because I took on management as a union leader, making myself a target, because I took a stand for fair and legal hiring practices against management's wishes, because I came into a new position and tripled the output of my fellow co-workers. I was completely confused at the outcome. Why? Because in school, they teach you that such behavior will be rewarded. And IN school, it is. However, once free from academia, the vipers take over the rules. Good performance is met with insecurity from fellow workers, who in turn create fictions to smear you and tear you down. Integrity is met with insecurity by bosses who have less, and so must eliminate the threat you pose to their scams. My mistake was making the stupid assumption that most people thought like I did, had integrity, and would reward and/or admire these qualities I hold dear. It never occurred to me to simply pay attention to how people drive. Within the shelter of their cars, the true person almost always comes out, showing their self-centeredness with complete abandon as they fragrantly ignore the safety of their fellow drivers with impunity, for no other reason than to get where they're going a few minutes faster. Too many people treat LIFE ITSELF as a competition, and not an opportunity to learn. And nearly everybody feels little or no remorse about bending or breaking whatever rules they can get away with. They teach us all sorts of things in school that have little to do with our adult lives. Sadly, they do not have any required courses in ethics and morality, and if one's parents have little of it themselves, then the child is on his/her own to find it from within. BB is a game that allows behavior from its players that represent some of the worst traits a human being can have. I don't think it's possible to play this game really well without having some real NATURAL talent in those areas. Roddy, IMHO, lacks some of that talent, plus he is naive to the fact that most people are vain, self-centered, egotistical, arrogant, petty, phony, and often downright nasty. What's worse is that each and every one of these same said people have very high opinions of themselves, so they are always able to justify their immoral and unethical behavior, lest they actually admit they are less than perfect. Marcellus and Danielle are prime examples of this personality. Constantly pointing out the "speck" they see in the eyes of others, completely oblivious to the "plank" within their own, as Jesus is quoted saying in the Bible. If Roddy can adapt his outlook to accept the existence of endless numbers of "vipers" in the world, he should then be able to adapt his behavior to separate said vipers from those who more closely reflect his own values and ideals, and have a better chance at avoiding their "fangs." |
Drpepper | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 05:27 am     His biggest mistake was getting HOH and using words during noms. that left them feeling like they had to go his way on the voting. It brought attention to him. He should have let the votes fall where they may. Then when Chiara got HOH, it appeared that Roddy was put up to use the same ploy, and with them being a couple, he got the unwanted credit. And last but not least, his over charming the weak, made the not so weak, take a second look at how he was playing them. |
Romans8_1 | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 05:43 am     I posted this in another thread, but I think it may be valid here also .... There were a lot of things Roddy did that I didn't agree with, but over time I did warm to him (maybe has I saw the others "with the exception of Jason" go downhill.) Maybe it was because of the relationship I saw him have with Jason. It might be my imagination, but I think that was the most real relationship he had in the house besides Eric. I really thought there was going to be a test coming that was going to redeem Roddy in my eyes, and I really wanted him to pass it. Anyways, I will say that after watching tonights show he has gained a few points in my book. It was nice to see some "real" emotion that wasn't being played for internal or external HG. Before I always had the feeling that he was always playing to one or the the other and he admitted that in the interview. It was hard to trust that when you knew that every emotion in the house was calculated. But to see real emotion was nice. I think if he had been a little more unguarded/uncalculating in the house, he would probably still be there. I would have liked to root that "that" Roddy in the house. Take if for what you will. JMO (before somebody reminds me of if ) |
Twiggyish | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 05:59 am     Crag, "Conversely, Danielle, having been raised a minister's daughter, knows ALL ABOUT sin. She knows exactly the sort of creature that man is, and is better equipped to exploit man's self-centered nature to her own agenda. She's been watching her dad since childhood manipulating his flock through fear and intimidation into accepting the gospel." I strongly beg to differ on that point. (And I am not going to debate it) By the way, I am not a Danielle fan. Crag, you state that Roddy is an Idealist. I disagree. To me, he is more of a manipulator. An Idealist sees good in others, whereas, Roddy sees human weakness. (As he pointed out in others) You are saying that Roddy has integrity and honesty. There are many instances where he proved that to be wrong. Remember his conversations with Eric and Josh. (just the guys) Jason on the other hand, is an Idealist. |
Bidasea | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:03 am     What happened to Roddy? Danielle...Without her he could have probably gone on snowing Jason,Amy, Marc, Gerry, and Josh..I'm not so sure about Lisa..She could have gone either way. |
Twiggyish | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:04 am     Bidasea, yes exactly! |
Duchess | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:22 am     Roddy is a crusader. He wanted to be known as a man of his word and he built his relationships under this rigid framework. He spent so much time sealing the other hgs words into his plan yet failed to consider the other hgs priorities and gameplan. He was blinded by his power, noting that the rest of the group seem to look up to him and constantly seek his approval. He truly believed that his crusade covered all the bases by exposing a person's self worth through his credibility, his overall deals guised as integrity and his presumption that there is no other game but his own. |
Demeter | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:22 am     Roddy's downfall was his arrogance. He felt entitled to win and somehow assumed that just being Roddy would be good enough. |
Mauidream | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:33 am     Demeter - you hit the nail on the head. One comment from me on Roddy: Couldn't believe that he had to get one more jab in to Amy as he left. When he hugged her he said "Thanks alot Amy" - and we all know what he meant by that! Yeah, thanks alot Amy for not vetoing me and making me have to leave the house even though I am the only one who deserves to be here......or a variation thereof...........glad he's gone, gone, gone! |
Reeniehere | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:53 am     I love reading your boards and had no intention of posting this season--I'm probably going to regret it--but here goes: Having been a counselor for over 25 years, I've leaned to accept the weaknesses, quirks, foibles of us humans. I wouldn't have been terribly unhappy if any of the houseguests had won and have grown to feel affection--or, at least, compassion--for all of them--accept for Roddy. I realize this is an artificial environment, but he reminds me too much of a certain toxic personality type I've counseled. Or rather, whose victims I've counseled, as this type of personality will refuse to accept responsibility--it's always other people's faults--and will drop counseling as soon as they realize they haven't snowed the counselor with their manipulations. This type of epersonality is usually smart, attractive and charming, and they latch onto the most vulnerable--those with the poorest self-esteem, the insecure, the young and naive, the less intelligent, and those too decent and honest to ever conceive this sort of personality exists. They seduce, use and discard the vulnerable--often with a touch of sadism--and move on to their next victim. This type of personality has learned to fake normal emotions to manipulate, but the only sincere emotions they feel are the outrage and pain they feel when their sense of entitlement is thwarted and others aren't willing to sacrifice themselves to give this personality everything they desire. Toxic personalities are extremely successful in leaving a trail of destruction and pain in everyday life. In a closed and isolated environment like Big Brothers they are at a disadvantage however. First, because they are shrewd at recognizing the most vulnerable in everyday life, and will avoid or discard quickly anyone strong enough to oppose them in the least. In the Big Brother house--once the most vulnerable have been used and discarded--the toxic personality is forced to start interacting with the less vulnerable. Second, because this personality is shrewd about compartimentalizing their victims into separate areas of their lives in everyday life, they prevent their victims from comparing notes and providing support to each other. In the Big Brother environment this becomes increasingly impossible as the population diminishes. I'm not stating my perceptions as fact--although I feel, because of the 24/7 feedback, I've gotten to know the houseguests better than most of my once a week/50 minute clients. I'm just expressing my emotional reactions to the interactions in the BB3 household. |
Gramma | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:57 am     Arrogance is an adjective that could be used to describe most of the HGs. I suppose we could get into a discussion of the different degrees of arrogance, but tangents can be death to a BB thread. I like Roddy, but was happy to see him go last night. His ego is what "done in him". He failed to see the big picture. Overestimated himself. Underestimated others. (I guess that IS arrogance, so I'm definitely in agreement with others here on that point) 1. He joined an alliance way too early in the game, before assessing all 12 HG's and thinking about which ones would really get him to the end. 2. He chose to allign with individuals that he could control and manipulate, quickly becoming their leader and decision maker. Might as well have painted a big target on his back. Fed his ego, but also left him vulnerable since he wasn't able to count on all of them to stay focussed or for having the ability to stay hidden. 3. By comparison, Dani & Mar waited a bit, watching and listening and then formed coalitions where the group made the decision. Or, at least they allowed the others to believe they were all part of the decision process. No man is an island and all that. Had he formed his alliance with stronger players and allowed himself to be a voice within that group, rather than THE voice of a group he could easily control, he'd still be there and probably would have walked away with the money. I wish him well and would love to see him benifit from this exposure in some way. I'd buy a ticket to a movie he was in or wrote, or buy a book he wrote. But I repeat... I'm glad he's gone. Overestimated himself. Underestimated others. |
Twiggyish | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 06:59 am     Reenie, Wow. Excellent post. |
Gramma | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 07:06 am     wow is right. Agreeing. That was one hell of a post Reenie. Still nodding my head at your assessment. WTG. |
Reeniehere | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 07:12 am     Thank you, Twiggyish. |
Reeniehere | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 07:22 am     And thank you, Gramma. There have been so many articulate and interesting opinions on this board, I wasn't sure I had anything to contribute. |
Vol2727 | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 07:22 am     I think Roddy made the mistake of telling Amy that he couldn't promise her his vote if she vetoed him. She was THAT close to vetoing him. He blew it right there. |
Lombadier | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 07:30 am     I think he made his alliances too early, and with some of the wrong people. He also should never have gotten sucked into the whole couples thing, especially with Chiara. And as Vol2727 pointed out, he blew it by not making a deal with Amy at the end. |
Kalekona | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 08:07 am     What did Roddy do wrong? Wow where do you start? First he underestimanted EVERYONE including the views. I for one picked up on his tactic of finding a persons weakness and using it against them, and the fact that he was playing to the jury from the minute Lori was evicted. <a do have a question, are the evicted hg allowed to watch the internet? or just tapes of past shows?> if they can watch the feeds/or read the feed posts this plan would have failed him anyway- but if all they see are the taped shows it might have worked. Roddy feels he is Above everyone else in the house and he showed it. While Gerry was just as smart, smarter really he didn't lord it over the others like Roddy did. But his biggest mistake was his revitionist mentality- he remembered things one way his, while the others saw conversations differently- like saying Danielle told him she trusted him 100%- she never said that, nor did Marcellas make a deal to keep Roddy off the block- Roddy "so if I get hoh i wont't put you up, we stick together, you in?" Marcellas "I'm in" Sure Marci was in to Roddy keeping him in the house but never said he'd return the favor- No symantics are what killed Roddy- He walked out last night believing they had all broken thier word, problem with that was they hadn't. And his Narcissitic personality felt they should all sacrifice for him he WOULD NOT have done the same. My mother is a victims advocate and all she can say is like reenie's toxic personality- Roddy fits all the requirements of an abuser. <not saying he is> but lets just say I nor anyone I love would ever be in a relationship with him. on a side not: Crag, "Conversely, Danielle, having been raised a minister's daughter, knows ALL ABOUT sin. She knows exactly the sort of creature that man is, and is better equipped to exploit man's self-centered nature to her own agenda. She's been watching her dad since childhood manipulating his flock through fear and intimidation into accepting the gospel." Not only is this pointless statement it is wrong and insulting. |
Secretsmile | Friday, September 06, 2002 - 08:17 am     Reenie..would you consider posting in the thread about HGs having trouble showing emotions? I'd be interested to read your opinion there also. |
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