Archive through October 16, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: USA 2002: General Discussion: Quick Vote ... Did Roddy influence the vote?: Archive through October 16, 2002

Gramma

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"INFLUENCE" is the key here.

Chiara: The day of the final vote Chiara was more concerned about Dani calling Roddy "The Devil" then looking at how she played the game. Thats a very interesting comment. Now why would she vote based on what Dani had said about another house guest? Unless that hg made it clear that he was soooooo hurt by such an awful comment. It's your vote. Getting even for HIS hurt feelings would be how this vote was cast. She made it clear that this was her problem with Dani. So was this an influenced vote? DUH!! Her own comments durring the vote suggest that. Never forget that Lisa was the one that Chiara voted to EVICT. Yet in the end she gives her the top money. This vote was laughable.

Gerry: It makes no rational sense that in the end Gerry would have given his vote to Lisa who called him a child molester. I believe he did say once he was out that he didn't think he would vote for Dani because of the Handwashing comment. However, it all depended on who she would be sitting next too. Again I ask where is the rational vote from him if it was not influenced? I will never believe the man willingly would give the top money to the one who called him a pervert. One hg says he lacks in bad hygiene the other calls him a pervert. One comment could affect your career another can be laughed at. However, if all you hear in that room is how AWFUL one contestant is and there is little to no praise of how she played then your vote is influenced. Remember, Roddy said to Dani, "You have hurt many people" he never praised her out loud. That was the key. Centeralize on the hurt. Gerrys vote in the end was influenced. He should have appreciated Dani's efforts. He played the game very similarly looking out for himself.

Amy: This one is probably the oddest vote of them all. Just what did Dani do or say that changed this young girls mind about her? EVERYTHING Dani said or did in regard to Amy she did and said to her face so there were no surprises. It does need to be noted that upon her departure she did mention Roddy did get connected with her very fast. It's an act that is VERY questionable. The same man that dogged her on TV durring his eviction is the first former hg to get in touch with her. Since he see's himself as doing no wrong in the house the call sure wasn't too apologize. A quick subtle campaign? hmmm... For Amy to vote based on words after the things she herself said was completely odd. However, if someone is chanting... "Isn't Dani awful? Isn't she the REAL devil?" Thats gonna work on this girl real easy. She was the most EASIEST to pursuade.

Lori: Vote for the person who got you evicted or vote for the person who tried to keep you in the game. Dani kept her word to Lori and evicted Marcellus over Lori that first eviction. Lori would have NOTHING else to base her choice on unless there was someone complaining about Dani's character. Again I will say... Why in hell would you vote based on how someone treated another player in the house? This vote is all yours and should reflect only your encounter with that person. If its based on hurt feelings of others then your vote has been pursuaded by the hurt person. Case closed on this one!

Josh: And then there is this sad vote. Couldn't stop praising Dani and all of a sudden Lisa's one act of not taking money for a phone call changes his mind? NOPE! Josh's friends ( not Josh) say his vote was not influenced... Yet, there he is as the final show closes, saying he's sorry to Dani. The way he even revealed his vote was as if he himself could not believe he had done it. Could he have been pursuaded? Would he admit it? Look at his time in the house. He threw himself on the sword for Roddy and Roddy LOVED it!! Roddy humiliated him durring his last week and yet he left still praising the man and vowing he would give him his vote if he were in the finals. Even after he allowed the whole house to attack him. When he cried like a little school girl to Roddy he swore later they were fake tears. They were real and he was confessing his love for the man at the time. We saw it and it was very creepy. There was no game play in it at the time. So is he gonna admit someone pursuaded him? Hell no! Yet he appologizes? Case closed on this vote it was indeed pursuaded.

The above votes are the ones that were influenced and I go back to Roddys comment to Dani when he said... "you have hurt many people" Theres the influence. It's subtle but it works like a charm. He never had to tell them how to vote. He just made sure that ANYTHING negative about Dani was kept alive durring the vote. We all know that Marcellus is very vocal and would help to keep the.. "Dani is awful" ... chant alive. Roddy knew this as well. That little performance about not glorifying Dani's type of play was just pathetic. How dare Marcellus even mention ones comments as a means for voting. What was he going to say if he had been in the final two? Gee Gerry I'm sorry I said I wanted you to die of a stroke. It was just the game"

The vote was very influenced and it SMELLS of Roddy. His continued montra was... reward the nice guy forget about the mean one. In a very dilusional thought process he fealt he was the one who deserved that nice guy reward. So with his comments of, "I'm hurt and the nice one should win" it's all influenced in the end.

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm not saying that every HG was influenced, but some where. It doesn't have to be like Roddy walked up and said "I command you to vote for Lisa." It could be subtle like "Danni really hurt a lot of people, didn't she?" and to play on emotions that were real. I think she did hurt alot of people. I also think she would be the first to admit it (and I am not condoning it). I also think that when taken into perspective, alot of people said a lot of hurtfull things and ALL seemed to be forgiven at the jury vote. All except one. Why in this spirit of forgiveness would all be fogiven except one? I think part of it was that Danielle hadn't had any one-on-one time with the HG like the others had. I think another part was Roddy subtly egged it on. I don't blame him though. Roddy is friends with Eric. Roddy truly wanted Lisa to win and helped her. There is nothing wrong with it. The producers expect them to sway each other. That is why they make it like a jury. When you go into a jury, the first vote is never like the final vote. I bet if they had taken a preliminary vote first off, it would have been more like most of us thought it would turn out. But then as each laid it their case, certain votes started to swing. Roddy (this is a compliment) is very persuasive. He would have made a great lawyer. So, he laid out a case against Danielle. Maybe not directly, but certainly enough so that it caused the landslide we saw. We saw everything the HG did (mostly). Do you think 90% of the board would have voted for Lisa? Nope. I think the percentage was too far out of norm with society to be reflective of the truth.

Prisonerno6

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yup, Shortnsweet, it's a Catch-22. There has been example after example of houseguests saying they wouldn't vote for Danielle, before they ever talked to Roddy (indeed, while he was still in the house!). But someone who is convinced that he manipulated the vote (after all, Danielle couldn't have lost the final vote all on her own) will simply say Roddy manipulated the houseguests so well that they don't even know they were manipulated. You can only really use the houseguests own words to decide if they were manipulated...but golly gee, he manipulated their knowledge of their own manipulation. (Where's the rolling eyes smiley face when you need it...)

As I've said before, if he was that good at manipulating people, he would be $500,000 richer.

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I could not have laid it out better C1mag. Thanks for articulating my thoughts. :) Now get out of my head!!!!!

Itsallgood

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ZACHSMOM, perfectly said! It amazes me that anyone could think that anyone in that house could INFLUENCE another one how to vote!!! *sighs* (Maybe INSIDE the house but NOT OUTSIDE) I say people are giving wayyyyyy to much credit to Roddy! LOL

Nope, didn't do it, never happened! But y'all have my blessing to continue to think that!

Denecee

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Roddy influenced Gerry, Josh and Amy to vote his way. I think he used Chiara to help with this influence. Roddy probably said to Chiara, "Take Amy out and buy her some drinks. Tell her she can make it up to me by voting for Lisa." LOl, Anyway I say yes.

Crossfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The vote may 'smell' of Roddy, unfortunately, the facts just don't back that up. We know of cases where voters changed their votes either while Roddy was still locked up, or before he had a chance to exert any influence.

Chiara's vote interestingly enough, WAS influenced, but not by Roddy, but by Dani who was supposed to have her back, while lining up the votes to boot her out regardless of how she herself voted. I can fully understand why Chiara might not like that major backstab.

As for Gerry, he did not hedge at all when he claimed he did not want to vote for Dani, there were no and's if's or butt's. He was very clear on the issue. I've yet to see any evidence that he even knows about the comments Lisa made.

Amy...she watched four tapes, and switched. I would really like to know WHICH four. I have a feeling she did not watch them in order, but went looking for something, and found it.

Lori...no one really knew 100% which way she would go, we had threads for predictions, and she landed all over the place. A coin toss.

The vote I would be willing to call a Roddy influence, is Josh, but apparently from someone who would know better than us, that is not the case. Who am I to argue?

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:46 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree with you cross but I respect your thoughts.

Chiara was more concerned about the devil comment than anything. Why? Dani didn't call her a devil. Chiara was pursuaded to get even for hurting someone else.

Gerry's vote based on pursuasion is sorta supported by your own comments.... He knows about the handwashing but your idea is that no one bothered telling him about Lisa calling him a pervert. Knowing what Lisa had said about him... Would that have changed his vote? Isn't this approach with him pursuasive? Many seemed to know every word Dani uttered but all had amnesia when it came to Lisa's comments. I also want to add that Gerry never said he WOULDN'T vote for Dani in the end. He said he was disappointed in her comments and had changed his mind about her. How could you say you weren't gonna vote for someone well before you knew who they were sitting next too? His vote was very pursuaded in the end. They knew he fealt negatively about Dani already. Just keep feeding him the line.."Isn't Dani evil?... Isn't Dani awful? Isn't she the definition of scumbaggery? Eliminate the Lisa comments about the molester and you've totally pursuaded the mans vote.

Lori... She had only two things to go on. Who evicted her and who tried to keep her in? Instead the vote had to be based on the nice guy vs the mean one. That was the whole tone in the end. Total pursuasion.

Amy was definitely pursuaded.... You feel she might have went looking for something... Who told her to look for what? Why only 4 tapes?

Josh... Come on!! Total pursuasion. This is the same guy that says his tears were fake and we all know they weren't. He's not going to admit he was pursuaded. Thats how he is. Just watch his actions on finals night. Why appologize about your vote if you feel you were right in what you did?

I know it's creepy to think someone could pull this off but it does happen. Remember, these folks were picked based on personality traits that make things exciting. Roddy was very good at subtle influence. We watched him turn Chiara against Lisa and some how blame it on Josh. We watched the man literally get out of a nomination by Jason who kept saying... "he's gotta go" It is more likely that he did pursuade then not. It's in his perfect nature. He probably doesn't even realize he's doing it.

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1Mag-

Chiara- Chiara stated in chat and it's documented that transcript that she wanted Roddy to win If not Roddy then Jason or Lisa.. Danielle came down the line on who she wanted to win.This was before Roddy was evicted.

Gerry -(your quote)"However, it all depended on who she would be sitting next too" Yeah..if she
was sitting next to Marcellas he was going to see if he could abstain from voting. That was the only
condition. Otherwise he stated he would vote for anyone BUT Danielle.

Amy - She changed her mind BEFORE she even spoke with Roddy. This is documented on her website. There was supposition that Roddy got in touch with her right away and was in her chatroom one night. That person was an imposter. Amy had not been in touch with or spoken to Roddy before her first chat in which she stated she would not vote for Danielle.

Lori- This one is up in the air for me..and I have not read anything that lori has personally stated against Danielle or Lisa for that matter. But if someone refered me as coocoo for cocoapuffs and the other person didn't say anything mean about me then the person who didn't would get my vote. I beg to differ that the case is closed on this one ..unless you are Lori?

Josh- so you believe your own and biased opinion than someone who knows and is close to Josh?
Sorry..I will believe Josh's friend anyday. The same way I'd believe a close personal friend
of yours than someone who has never met you.

You don't like Roddy..that is obvious. But you have not proved that there was even an influence.

There was no influence! By saying there was you are belittling 9 other people and giving power to 1. If Roddy was this powerful he would have won 500,000 dollars. Guess what? He didn't!

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah Zachsmom I can prove Roddys influence... Danielle:"You have hurt many people" That was the theme durring the final vote. His own commnents suggest he pursuaded the feeling.

Just keep them focused on hurt feelings and pay little to no attention to how she played many of them out of the house. When each one prior to voting said they were disappointed in her that is the fuel he needed to hang on to all the hurt feelings. He knew that these people love to play on emotions. It was all subtle.


Why is it that if Roddy didn't win the money that he does not have the power of subtle pursuasion? He beat out 2 evictions that should have taken place. It was incredible!! He almost had Amy walking out the door for him and even after he was gone she bawled because she dared to play for herslef. Thats not a lasting impression that is very powerful but yet very subtle? Does it suggest that he MIGHT have pursuaded some of the votes? It sure does!

Knowing he is capable of this supports the suggestion that he can be pursuassive in a subtle manner. Why is it belittling someones vote if you see that it was pursuaded by someone who was a very sore loser? It's not belittling them it's stating an opinion.

Gerry would have voted for ANYONE sitting next to Dani? Even the one that called him a molester? Yeah right! Forget to tell him that but keeping crying..."Dani is mean... Dani is awful...etc.. Thats not pursuasive? Who sadi, "Dani you have hurt many people?"

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sure it's belittling..you are stating that they don't have their own mind and their own opinion.

I just went back and read the show summaries which captures the show verbatim. No where does it state that Roddy said "You have hurt a lot of people. I know Danielle stated after the meeting with the HGs that SHE said she hurt a lot of people. But I don't recall her saying Roddy stated that..

this is from the Live show Summaries.

Roddy: "Hi, Danielle, it's Roddy."
Danielle: "Hello, Roddy."
Roddy: "How bad were the peanut butter and jelly weeks?"
Danielle: "The peanut butter and jelly weeks were really, really bad. I hate peanut butter and jelly! Thank you. Thanks, Roddy."
Roddy: "Lisa, what was your most favorite memory of the house?"
Lisa: "My favorite memory of this house is always going to be me watching my growth experience as a person."


I am going to go look into the live feed post and see if I can find anything there from that Monday where Danielle specifically states that Roddy said "You hurt a lot of people" If I find it I will come back and apologize.

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Zach.... it was mentioned on the live feeds after they got done with the q&A session that was edited for TV. Dani says she was scared when he started by saying... "you have hurt many people" and then he asked her something like if she really hated peanut butter and jelly. Then he was done with her. If you don't find it in a live feed it still was one of his comments. I wouldn't lie about it. In fact Dani mentioned it more than once when she and Lisa were talking about it.

Dahli

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I couldn't agree more Bastable and Romans - well said!
Since the show ended I've noticed his abilities are such that people that weren't even playing can't see they are still being manipulated! He's a bit scary that way

Crossfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1MAG: I completely agree with your first sentence, except I agree with me, but respect your contributions to this topic. :)

One thing that bothers me about the final show that is currently being discussed in another thread, is that they play it up to be live, but we know that is not completely true, BB mixed up a couple of days events plus a smattering of live material to put that together. I bring this up because I don't know for sure how to connect the various comments and whatnot to the resulting votes and then finally to reality, which ironically, is what this is supposed to be all about. When it comes down to it I don't feel like I know what Chiara was REALLY concerned about. I know what BB told us she said, but I don't know for sure how it really fits together.

With respect to Roddy, I know he was somewhat persuasive in the house, I don't want to come off as saying he was not at all, obviously, he was to a certain extent. My take is that he earned peoples trust, but with a question mark. He could get people to verbally agree to things when he was standing in front of them, but it did not often translate into any benefit for him. The only time I think he really scored himself a win, was when he completely blew Jason off his plan while he was HoH, and thought he was going to nominate Roddy. Other than that, he spent most of his time in the house rambling useless facts and annoying people.

His persuasion skills are suspect at best. Arguments can be made that he is the master, but then arguments can also be made that his alliances never voted as a unit, he and his friends got picked off. Maybe his persuasion skills were compromised by poor leadership skills which I would say Dani is a master of.

With so much up in the air, I go with what I know. I look to comments that as far as I can tell, do not, and in some cases could not possibly have been affected by influence. Did he make a point of reinforcing those feelings at the final meet? Probably, but I assume everyone had a chance to speak, most people by then I think knew a bit more about how he worked, and I don't think he is as persuasive in group situations as he is in private one on one sessions like the HoH session he had with Jason.

I think he might have reinforced some peoples ideas, but there is nothing I can point that would indicated a switched vote like when Gervase(sp?) I believe it was on S1 who switched his vote last minute based on the Susan speech.

I think part of the problem, is that we, or should I restrict my comments to myself, I don't trust that BB tells it like it is when they think they can get a better show working some angle that might be either a partial truth, or an outright manipulation of the HG's comments.

And at this point, to avoid giving the wrong impression, I again refer you to my first sentence. :)

Cassie

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Prisonerno6 said: <"As I've said before, if he was that good at manipulating people, he would be $500,000 richer.>

Finally, some good old common sense! Seems like Dani has brainwashed a few folks on here into believing that Roddy has all these "super" powers. Must have been all those "he the Devil, he Satan" comments she made, repeated ad nauseum.

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cross the one thing though is that who is going to admit they were pursuaded?

My best example of how strangely complex these hg's were can be found in Marcellus who still swears he didn't use the gpov so as not to hurt anyone yet he never bothered packing. That act tells us it was ego and his belief he wasn't going. Yet he will swear it was for other reasons. Amy SWEARS her reason for nominating and evicting Chiara was NOT personal hahahaha!! Roddy himself lies and it's documented but still SWEARS he NEVER lied!! So..... Would this group admit someone else pursuaded them? I'm gonna lean towards no on this one :)

However, I still respect your thoughts they are great!! They sure did leave a lasting impression on quite a few of us. I don't know if they will be able to out do this season.

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hey cassie I've already asked... Why did Roddy have to win the whole game to be dubbed a pursuassive person? If you don't win something in life are you just a loser? The man showed some great skills at pursuassion while in the house.

Cassie

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hey Ci :) Maybe he DID show some persuasive skills while in the house but his power of persuasion was obviously not that GREAT or he wouldn't have been voted out as early as he was now, would he?

If you hadn't seen the show and only had some of the comments made about Roddy's "amazing powers of manipulation" in this thread to go on, you would conclude that the guy could mesmerize and hypnotize like Rasputin himself. Far from it! Roddy's persuasive skills were far from outstanding. Nothing you couldn't learn in a Speech 101 college course.

Crossfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who would admit they were persuaded? Hard to say, but I will grant probably none of them.

I think it is safe to speculate that at this point, they probably do not think they were persuaded at all, but it would be great to get them in here, and see if you or some of the others of the others could convince them otherwise. That would be a discussion I would pay to be in on. :)

Marcellus certainly got caught in denial. I agree that the evidence tells us that he did not think he was going anywhere.

Amy I just do not understand. If I understand it correctly, we are left believing that if we could go back in time, she would in fact veto Roddy. That would be a sign of influence in the house. Outside the house I am not sure. She might be willing to switch it around just to see if she could have sic'd Roddy on Danielle. Amy came right out ahead of time pre Roddy influence admitting that she would not be voting for Danielle, unfortunately, she never said why, and it seems no one asked. I suspect we all think we know, and just leave it at that which is fine I guess. What I want to know, is why does she hold to opinion now that she should have taken Roddy off the block? During that part of the game, I was in agreement with Roddy badgering her to take him off; I would have done the same thing especially once she came to me, and provided evidence that she owed me a veto. I also understand why she did not, and agree with that too. What I don't understand, is why she now thinks that was the wrong decision. I could make up some arguments for it but most of them would be pretty flimsy by my usual standards, so I'd like to hear her side.

My guess is that you guys might be able to convince Amy and Josh that they were in fact influenced by Roddy...in the house. I doubt you could get a confession admitting to final vote tampering though. Some people are just plain petty and shallow.

One other thing I feel that I should point out is that if it were to somehow come out that Roddy did in fact corral that endgame, I would see nothing wrong with that from his point of view, but it would dim my impression of the others as I am currently giving them the benefit of the doubt that they used whatever reasons they came up with no matter how flimsy to cast a vote of their own, and not Roddy’s vote by proxy.

Costacat

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No, I don't think he influenced the vote.

Yes, he talked to some of the houseguests once they were evicted. Yes, he probably chatted about how Danielle deserved to lose. But how could he have any influence over any of 'em? Odds are he wouldn't see most of 'em again. Influencers generally succeed by having some sort of "pull" over the person being influenced. Roddy maybe even reminded the HGs of some of the more dastardly deeds Danielle did. But each and every person on that jury was an adult, capable of forming his or her own opinions.

I think the ONLY person who influenced the vote is Danielle. I think that if Danielle had apologized for her actions (rather than stating she'd do it all again) she might have received more votes. I think she also influenced the votes because she didn't appear to regret hurting anyone -- other than the obvious regret at losing the game.

Denecee

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I totally agree with C1mag. I'm happy for Lisa that she won because she seems like a good person. I think Dani played the game the best and if she hadn't played the way she did then she would be $50k short.

C1mag

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cross... I don't fault the man at all for playing the game even durring the final vote. He made the journey that much more fun for me. He is quite a character.

Now I would LOVE!! and I mean LOVE!! to have an open forum with all the former contestants. My first question would be... "Since the majority of you voted based on the belief that Dani was just too harsh verbally what were you going to do if you had been in the finals knowing you too had said some harsh things and some even harsher?" I'd love to hear the response to that. Well... I think we can guess what Roddy would say :)

Hey Cassie !!! ;-) All I'm saying is that with Roddy it is very likely that subtle pursuasion based on playing with those hurt feelings is more likely than not.

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hey Zachsmom, remember what I said before? I'll repeat it again. Although it's fun to debate our interpretation of what happen, it really does come down to our interpretation of the facts and not the facts themselves. We all saw the same thing, but every person's brain interpreted it differently. We don't argue the facts so much. like Roddy saying "You have hurt alot of people." Instead we argue what that means and the ramifications on the other HG. That is why I was reluctant at first to lay out my belief. It was pointless. Nobody has really changed their mind and all we end up doing it arguing our interpretation of the facts. The facts do not dictate our belief, but our gut feeling of those facts.

IMO :)

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I also wanted to comment on a point made by another poster...

Don't get me wrong either. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with what Roddy did. It was entirely part of the game. Why else would they set it up as a jury if they did not intend on jury members influencing one another. Absolutely nothing wrong with. I just accept that it happened. Some don't. Some would have us believe that they all got together in a jury atmosphere, with a jury mindset and that nobody influence anybody. Almost laughable. Once you admit that there were influencing going on, then you have to look at the member and decide who had the most influencing power. That's all I'm saying. That's it. That's all. :)