Archive through October 16, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: USA 2002: General Discussion: Quick Vote ... Did Roddy influence the vote?: Archive through October 16, 2002

Oregonfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Romans you are funny. I am rather surprised that the vote is so close. Dang my vote for Ralph Nadar!

Goddessatlaw

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sure.

Reeniehere

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"Anyone who thinks that Roddy has some magical power that can make others do his will is fodder for a cult."

Psychologically, I think it's the reverse. Anyone who was perceptive enough to pick up on Roddy's exceptional ability to seduce, exploit and manipulate is far less likely to fall under the spell of the sort of charismatic phony associated with a cult.

Lisa was my favorite--I think her creative, introverted personality was under-rated--and I think she would have won regardless, but the humiliating 9-1 twist of the knife was--in my opinion--delivered by Roddy's vengeful hand.

Battlestar

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
---almost all of the HG identified Roddy as manipulative--so therefore they were perceptive enough to 'PICK UP' on his charismatic personality.

So--if they have perceived him to be such a person, then how did their vote get influenced if you say the reverse is true?????.

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lori- Let's see, Danielle called her CooCoo for CocoaPuffs on numerous occasions there was also
that Gerry handwashing incident- I can see her voting for Lisa.

Tonya- On her exit interview she stated she was closest to Chiara and Lisa and that she wanted
Chiara to win. Tonya also had the Live Feeds so she was able to see and hear Danielle and what
she had to say about her outside of the Diary room. I can see her voting for Lisa. No Roddy influence there.

Eric- No brainer

Josh- One of his friends came online and stated that Roddy did not influence his vote. The deciding factor was when Lisa didn't take the 15,000. No Roddy influence there.


Chiara- Chiara stated that she wanted Roddy to win. In her chat she listed that she wanted
either Roddy, Lisa or Jason to win. - No Roddy influence there.


Gerry- Stated on exit interview that he wanted Danielle to win. Less than a week later he stated
that he would vote for anyone but Danielle and if the final 2 were Danielle and Marcellas then
he would see if he could abstain from voting- No Roddy influence there.

Roddy- Roddy stated he wanted Lisa or Jason to win. I guess Roddy influenced himself and voted
for Lisa over Danielle- So Roddy influenced Roddy.

Marcellas- In his exit interview he stated he wanted Lisa to win. No Roddy influence there.

Amy- Amy stated that she wanted Danielle to win. Less than two days after her leaving and
BEFORE she even spoke with Roddy she had changed her mind and didn't want Danielle to win. No Roddy influence there.

Jason- Jason voted for Danielle- No Roddy influence there.


Can someone please explain to me where Roddy had the influence to change the votes? And whose vote he influenced? I am really at a loss.

Avrey258

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Absolutely Yes.

Ptomaine

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
MissLibra:
"If anyone tape the final show check out Marcellas when Roddy is speaking. If looks could kill, Roddy would of been dead."

crossed-arm marc
roddy-eyed

http://bb3clips.home.att.net/RodMarcQA.avi (1.07MB)

Episode cap by Radicus.

Crossfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well said Zachsmom, those are the facts as I understand them as well.

I am glad I don't have to try and provide a credible rebuttal to that as it would be very, very hard without resorting to outright lying.

Excellent post!

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you Crossfire..I am just confused as to why so many people think that Roddy had this great influence over these people.. I mean if he's that good I'd really like for him to come talk to my boss..perhaps he can get my boss to double my salary..:)

Rabbit

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
TVCH Exclusive Interview


To shed some light on the raging debate of, did Roddy attempt to influence the vote of the BB3 jury, TVCH has sent its ace interviewer Rabbit to talk to the ultimate authority in the field.

Rabbit: Ladies and Gentlemen put your hands together and lets give it up for my good buddy, former six term Mayor of Chicago, Richard J Daley !! Welcome to TVCH your honor, you are looking absolutely fabulous. May I call you Dick?

Daley: Sure Rabbit, Great to see you again and as always you look terrific.

Rabbit: Thanks Dick! Now to get right to the crux of today’s burning issue, did Roddy attempt to influence the vote?!?

Daley: Well certainly Rabbit. It is well documented that the evicted houseguests met and it would be foolish to think all they discussed was Julie’s latest fashion foible. The final vote was discussed and ALL the houseguests lobbied for who they wanted or didn’t want to win, just like they did in BB2.

Rabbit: Well was the vote fair then?

Daley: Sure Rabbit, They discussed, made up their minds and voted. As the total votes cast was within 180% of the number of living eligible voters I would say the results were valid.

Rabbit: Speaking of “living” what is up with this rumor you died in 1976?

Daley: An arranged exaggeration Rabbit. I had done the mayor thing and wanted to let junior have a crack at it. I had also grown politically more conservative so I wanted to start over.

Rabbit Wow, fascinating! What did you do?

Daley: I went to Joan River’s plastic surgeon, then moved to Texas and bided my time. I dug up some great dirt on George and Barbara B and got them to take me in as their son and use the CIA connections to manufacture a childhood. Things are going great now thanks to some fun in Florida.

Rabbit: Well thanks so much for making time in your busy schedule Dick and good luck on Operation You Rock, Iraq.

Reeniehere

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Battlestar,

My memory might be remiss, but I don't recall Lori, Tonya or Eric indicating they thought Roddy to have an exceptional ability to seduce, exploit and manipulate.

Gerry seemed to suggest the possibility, but his delight at being considered an intellectual equal by Roddy seemed to override his perception.

If Chiara, Amy and Josh identified him as such I might have missed it, because so much of their time was spent noisily groveling, adoring, and apologizing to him.

Marcellas was certainly perceptive enough to recognize these attributes in Roddy--despite his infatuation with him--and expressed it many times. That is why he decided to align with Danielle to oust him, and I feel Marcellas's vote was truly based on what he considered to be Danielle's betrayal. As Ptomaine's post indicates, he still has Roddy's number.

The only other ones I recall having a major perception of Roddy's manipulative powers were Danielle, Lisa, Julie Chen and Jason--three of whom couldn't vote and the last of whom refused to let his vote be manipulated.

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
yes 22
no 18
Ralph Nadar 1 :)

In regards to some previous posts, many of us who said 'yes' see the pointlessness of trying to prove it since we understand that it cannot be proven one way or the other for a fact. We are mostly talking about gut feeling based on limited information that we have (don't we do this everyday). I don't think anyone is going to change anyone's mind at this point. Please don't take it personally if I don't agree with you.

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree Romans, if someone could dispute the facts that I presented I could be swayed. See, I am an open minded person. I did not base my opinion on "gut" feelings. Everything in my above post was researched and can be backed up with online data.

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
But don't you see Zachsmom that facts are interpreted. I could give you facts (as I see them), but then you would disagree on the interpretation. Then we get into a debate not so much about the facts, but the interpretation. The interpretation is open to biasness. It an evil cycle. The facts are facts, but it's the interpretation that causes the conflicts.

Zachsmom

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yeah..I can see where you can misinterpret the fact that Gerry stated that he would vote for anyone but Danielle as just my bias and the way I interpreted it..

I can see where Marcellas stated that he wanted Lisa to win as my bias..

I can see where Amy changed her mind prior to speaking with Roddy as my bias..

I think it's easier for some to pin it on Roddy than to really evaluate the facts..snap decision are always easier than researching the truth..<shrug>

Crossfire

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The things Zachsmom has stated are not interpretations, if I was the motivated type, I could provide links and direct quotes from interviews and whatnot to backup pretty much every point.

That is why I said I would not want the task of providing the rebuttal. It would pretty hard to argue against direct quotes from the exhgs.

Bastable

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Absolutely. I have no doubt. I don't care if people like Josh come and say he didn't--Roddy's form of persuasion is such that he can get people to change their minds without them even knowing he's manipulating them. That's what makes him so dangerous--it always was.

Roddy plays on people's deepest wounds. They think they're making up their own minds, but he's really steering. Knowing what we know about Roddy's tactics--that he locates deep self-hatred in each person and toys with it in order to get his way--it's no surprise that the other HGs don't acknowledge that he influenced them. They were actually blaming Danielle for whatever psychic damage they suffered at the hands of everyone in the house. I wonder if they realize it themselves.

(And even if someone DID realize that they'd been played like Roddy's fiddle, that doesn't mean they will ever admit it to the public! It makes you look like a stooge to admit your jury vote wasn't 100% your own!)

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'll try to explain how I interpret some events.

1) Josh - IMO this is the most obvious. Danielle got him to fight and stood in his corner (my interpretation of what happened) when he was going to be railroaded out of the house. Josh constantly reminded us of how much he respected her playing the game. We also know that he very much wanted to be friends with Roddy. I don't buy him going for Lisa just because she turned down 15K. For Josh to give Lisa 500K when he never thought she played the game was a little hard to swallow. It doesn't take a big leap after he threw his key that he never really wanted to vote for Lisa.

2) Gerry. He also respected her play. He might not have like some of the things she said, but Daneille never said anything near as bad as Lisa calling him a pedophile or that parting remark. For him to give it to someone who coasted into the final 4 didn't make a lot of sense to me. As a parent (personally) and a player (professionally) his vote for Lisa was really out of the blue.

3) Amy. Ok, so Danni made fun of her. I never saw anything that bad. Nothing any worse than Marcellas and Amy didn't seem to have any problem forgiving Marcellas. IMO, Amy should have really ticked at Marcellas. Amy didn't have anything against Lisa, but Amy was always totally for Danielle.

4) Lori's was hard to figure out since she wasn't really there very long. My gut says she was leaning towards Danielle, despite their little arguement.

With this being said, I think several of the HG were hurt by Danielle upon seeing the tapes. Where Danielle went over the line was that she made it personal. Unlike Will (who was constantly brought up on this board), Will never really made it personal. As a HG, you didn't care for Will and knew he really didn't care for you. So, you weren't really hurt by the things he said. Danielle said "I love you" in the house and it hurt the HG to hear the other stuff later. I recognize this as the root of their vote, but I still think several of them would have voted for Danielle if not for the swaying power of Roddy. He recognized the root and played with it to get the vote he wanted. I'm not saying this as a "Roddy-Hater" (as I'll no doubt be labeled. anyone who does not worship the ground he walks on is a Roddy-Hater :) ) I say kudo's for him. He lost. He recognized who was behind it. He realized he was out played and IMO (as if I have to say it), exacted a little revenge. Happens all the time. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just calling it as "I" see it.

Now several of you will look at the same events and say "Whoooa, Romans got it all wrong." and I can respect that opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right, I'm just say it's mine. Again, we all saw the same thing, but experience and biasness will cause us to see them in different lights. I recognize this ... Do you?

At this point, I don't think any of you could sway my opinion. Call that close mindedness if you want. But short of me talking with the HG personally, I just don't see any of you coming up with any new arguements that I haven't read 500 times before.

The proof of a great manipulator is when his toys don't even know they've been manipulated. Dani did a great job of that in the house and so did Roddy. Kudo for them. Roddy had the last laugh as he was able to continue outside. But I guess some would have me believe that as soon as he left the house that ALL manipulation stopped. Sorry. Don't buy it. They all got together and gave their opinions to sway the others. That was part of the show. Roddy is very persuasive and I beleive was able to sway a couple of swing votes to go against Danielle.

Sbw

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
NO, not any more than any member of the jury swayed one or the other. As far as Josh, I think Josh was a little "surprised" at his own actions because he allowed real life and feelings (the Lisa turning down money) for game playing by Dani when he went in to "play" at any cost. The others do not surprise me at all. :)

Espen

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
In the case of Josh, I believe he was also swayed somewhat by Eric.. If anyone read the transcript on some website (I forget which) where Eric and Josh were having a chat, Josh was saying he supported Dani, and Eric said something to the effect that he will convince him to vote for Lisa yet.. It was said light-heartedly, but it was clear that Josh and Eric at the time were hanging out together, so Eric might well have swayed it.. Wasn't there even some talk that Eric had promised Josh a trip? I know Lisa denied it in the chat, but then she can't really speak for Eric..

However, I think this chat was before Lisa turned down the money, so that may indeed have been a deciding factor..

Shadowkat

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
While I agree with Romans that Roddy was a great manipulator IN the house, I also agree with Zachsmom that I think the hgs made up their own minds on who to vote for in the end. I think these are two very seperate issues. While I think Roddy could and would have swayed votes, I think he found out everyone but Jason agreed with him. By things that were stated I think the other hgs had already decided who they were going to vote for, and coincidentally, everyone but Jason agreed with Roddy to vote for Lisa. here was nothing to manipulate. IMO

Shortnsweet

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The chat with Josh and Eric was on BigBrotherLive3, but I don't know if a transcript was made of the chat.

So, let me see if I get this straight, we are arguing houseguests' (and a houseguest's close friend's) words in interviews, posts or chats against poster's gut feelings??

Romans8_1

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If you were manipulated, would you admit it? I don't think some of the swing votes realized how obvious it was until after the fact. Who would admit it? Nobody. We would hear all kinds of rationalizations after the fact to justify their vote. I'm not saying that without roddy, everyone would have voted for Danielle, I just think the most lopsided vote in reality tv history is a little funny. Then when you factor in the known talents of one jaded Mr. Roddy as well as other known factors, it becomes clear to those of us who haven't fallen under his spell :) that he at best manipulated a few.

Myself, I do not know to this day who I would have voted for. So please don't take my present stance as pro-Danni.

Trulyscrumtious

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I vote No. :)

Shortnsweet

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Roman, what about HG's words BEFORE they talked to Roddy outside the house?

FYI - I am not a Roddy fan, and IF I am under anyone's spell it would be Ethan from Survivor 3!