Archive through September 15, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game. (ARCHIVE): Archive through September 15, 2002

Jimmer

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It's amazing. Roddy continues to haunt, long after eviction. I don't want to get into another Roddy debate, but singling him out alone truly mystifies me.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oregonfire,

No, I don't think these people are depraved. Nor do I think they are evil. I agree they are probably basically good people. But, I do think their ethical base is low -- that their priorities are all screwed up.

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Oregonfire.
For saying:
"I think I'm seeing the "real" all of them..."

Bohawkins

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Big Brother is a game which teaches that the lie is better than the truth; breaking your word is better than having honor. The excuse is that when the prize is big enough then the laws of God can be broken. I believe that a promise made to Marcellas (or anyone else) is a promise. It is not like a glance or a clouded face in a poker game, it is the spoken word. A promise or affirmation made in any context, whether it is a game of big brother or the game of business should be sacrosanct.

Excusing lies here is the same logic of all cheaters and criminals, who practice deception in order to gain the "big prize." Many of the criminals now rotting away in prison, who have conned their way to fortunes have always been scrupulous to a fault on small stuff. They saved their lies for the times when the stakes were the highest.

If I showed you a way you could make $500,000 dishonestly, by only telling one lie, would you do it? Maybe you could rationalize it, by thinking of all the good things you could do with the money.

Yes, Big Brother is in this way, a mirror of the game of life. When the prize is big enough, for many people, moral codes change, and equivocations are easily excused.

My favorite quote was from Danielle in one of her Diary room comments on either the Thursday or Saturday show. I am paraphrasing, because I don't tape the show, so if anyone had the actual quote it would be helpful. She said, "All those who were honest, and kept their word are gone now. I had to lie to stay in the game."

That logic is no different than what I see in the world of business everyday. This show teaches the power of the lie.

Oregonfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, Roddy *was* the only one that offended me. Should I invent a mock HG just not to mention his name? I just admitted in my own post that my distaste of his actions may be clouded by my own perceptions. I'm admitting my bias openly.

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
WOW.
Really nice Bohawkins.
Thanks for jumping in.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oregonfire I feel ya. I too am biased against Roddy and have said so since my dislike took root. He is also the only one I have had a problem with in this game and like you, my distaste is determined by my own experiences and perceptions.

I readily admit that while I am more than willing to forgive others actions in the contrived environment I am just as resolute about holding Roddy's feet to the fire for his actions. Unfair? Unreasonable? Completely conflicts with my arguments? You betcha.

Oregonfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I never argued that I was or wasn't seeing the "real" HGs or the "BB" HGs. That point is irrelevant to me.

Maybe BB does teach the power of the lie. Shrug. What do I care? I'm watching a game show, not the OJ trial. Let the players do what they have to do to win the game. I'm a big girl--I don't learn my morality from game shows.

Jimmer

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that some people start the show thinking that they are going to play ethically and slowly deteriorate as the show progresses. It must be tough to deal with after they are finished. Also, even more amazingly, there are very few contestants that seem to be able to see or willing to admit that they didn’t play ethically by their own moral code. This may be a natural self-defense. You hear it stated over and over again: “I was fair … I played a good game … I was honest” Marcellus just said that the other day.

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Let me defend the Colby thing now---
People slam Colby for not getting rid of his friend to win the money. But he gave his word. I just thought it showed great character.
True, we hardly knew him. But that ONE big decision told me a lot.
I hope I never have to make a decision like that.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So when Dani does the same thing your opinion about her will change?

Jimmer

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I will be impressed if Dani wins the HOH and takes Jason to the end. I just don't think that will happen (she won't win the HOH).

Foodbunny

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I thought Colby's decision showed a lot of character, but I liked him before that. Dani taking Jason to the finals wouldn't change my opinion of her because of that whole "can't trust Roddy because he's not a man of god" personal insult to all non-Christians thing. Same as if Gerry took Marcellas to the finals. It'd be nice for them to be loyal and all but I'd still ultimately loathe them.

Jimmer

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually, I'm starting to think that maybe her best chance is against Jason, so maybe she should try to win it and take him. However, I'm not sure that Dani realizes that.

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
'fire---
If you "don't care", then what are you doing here talking about it?
I'm not stopping any player from doing anything. You keep going off the point. Then you say you don't care.

I suppose I do care. I hate to hear excuses. I hate to hear a tennis player make excuses for losing.
I hate to hear the government make excuses for security mistakes.
I can accept, "I made a mistake. I'll try to do better next time."

Whit4you

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Colby has different priorities then some folks do and the almighty dollar isn't one of them obvoiusly :) I wanted to shake Colby for that decision too - I like Colby and wanted him to win - but I think think there is nothing wrong with walking away with 100 g's and doing what you think is ethically and morally right for YOU personally. And I'm not saying dumping the friend is not ethically and morally right - it is simply a matter of one's own ethics. To me it's a game... and I'd play it as such. To others it's a lesson in this or about making friends or whatever. Colby is a smart - extremely good looking sexy man he will go far in life - he doesn't need 500 g's after taxes to get there. Besides he'd have no problem getting modeling contracts if he wanted them and could make that much in a year easy. :)

Crossfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Not to rub off any of the shine on Colby's boots, but I thought he took whatshername out of spite for the other guy, wanted to deny him any chance of a win at all.

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What Whit said.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So my reasons and opinions are excuses while yours are just reasons and opinions? Or did I misunderstand your post?

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Now we are cooking!
Crossfire is here!
LOLOLOL

Tobor7

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv--

Your line:

"...put anyone in these conditions under a microscope for 24/7 and I doubt anyone would fare very well..."

IS an excuse. You are saying that they do what they do BECAUSE of the "conditions" -- (cause and effect)

I say they do what they do because of WHO THEY ARE. And they will do the same outside the house as well.

Wendo

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Honestly, I think to compare BB to real life and real life situations is taking this "game show" way to seriously.

As Oregon (i think) said, it's a game show, not the OJ Trial. Not only that, a summer filler game show.

Who gives a fig about morals, ethics, and the like when the show's premise is to lie, betray, and, yes, cheat in order to get to the end.

JMO.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit as mentioned before we weren't privy to Colby's behavior 24/7. What if he gossiped and talked badly about people but it wasn't shown on tv because it didn't fit his assigned role? What if the whole reason Colby made it to the end was by Tina's machinations and strategy? We were never shown the genesis of their alliance. Heck we weren't shown a single thing about their alliance until Colby made his choice in the finals. We only know Burnett's version of the truth. What if Colby exhibited some of the behaviors that are getting people all riled up here on the board but we never got to see it?

We don't have enough information to compare Colby to any of these houseguests. The situations and the exposure are like chalk and cheese.

Oregonfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"What do I care?" is in the context of "why should I morally censure the hgs when I feel that they've done nothing deserving of my condemnation?" I rarely engage in these sorts of debating spars on the board, Tabor, so obviously I *do* care about the discussion itself.

How am I talking off the point? I think I've addressed the fact that I don't agree that the hgs are lacking an ethical code, which I believe was the gist of your first post.

I think Colby was a bit of a fool, and don't especially admire him for taking Tina to the end. I admire *Tina* for having Colby take her to the end.

Is that suitably to the point?

Crossfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Heh, I was here for post #2. This got cooking a long time ago. :)