Archive through September 15, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Lisa mades some points last night with this Jason fan,,,: Archive through September 15, 2002

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You said: "You are saying it was all an act just to get votes because of her greed to get the $500,000." That makes no sense.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wsv -- no, I am not holding them to a different standard at all. I am not talking about standards or any sort of criteria for judgment. i am speaking of what it takes to get through these grueling weeks, evict people you may like and get to the end. Emotion driven decisions cannot get you there. Any man who acts based on emotions will not get there either.

The difference I see is not whether it is good to act on emotion or logic in general -- I think we all would agree it is best to act on a combination of both in life. But there is a difference in your chance of getting to the end in something like this game based on whether one acts out of emotion or out of logical strategizing.

And I think you have to agree, that the women on this show have been, in general, driven far more by emotion, than the men. To a good extent, that is based on the women chosen to be on this show. Obviously, BB wanted the pathos such emotions bring and got mwomen who would provide that pathos.

But no, I do not see my comments as setting different standards -- just as an observation about how someone, anyone, needs to play this game to win.

If you see me as setting different standards for women in some way, then there is nothing I can say to defend myself because it is not what I am doing.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I see you ignoring the question.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood --in the hypotheitical I used, it made perfect sense. But since I myself rejected that hypothetical, there is nothing more for me to say. And it is a waste of everyone's time for me to have to keep repeating this. So, this is the last I will comment on your question.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What555 I don't think you need to defend yourself. You are entitled to your opinions and perceptions. I do think however that GENERALLY if a woman is seen to have any emotion (especially in a competitive situation or position of authority) it is assumed that she can not be logical. As if logic and emotion are mutually exclusive.

I agree that Lisa did NOT use logic but acted strictly on emotion during the luxury competition. This did help her in the game except perhaps by default. There are those that will see her gesture as heroic. I'm not one in that camp.

If you take a good hard objective look at the contestants in this game the person who played with the most emotion was a man. And the person who PLAYED the most with the others emotions was a man.

Mellbell416

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood, yes it does make perfect sense. The ex-HGs are not only going to vote based on how well people played the game, but also based on how much they lke and trust them. Lisa professed loyalty to her teammates and sacrificed money so that all could get something - you can already see the effect on some of the posters here. Her stock has risen. Ergo, more votes. $15 000 ain't as much as $500 000.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
" If you take a good hard objective look at the contestants in this game the person who played with the most emotion was a man. And the person who PLAYED the most with the others emotions was a man."

And both are gone, Wcv.

If you look at the two strongest players -- one is a woman and one is a man. They played with cunning, logic and strategy. Even when it was hard for them to make a decision because of their emotions, they still made that decision based on cunning, logic and strategy.

Jake

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
No matter how much we feel for Lisa right now, (being Eric-less and without any strategy partners (like Dani has Jason) at the closing of this game, etc.) I sure hope the audience and the remaining HGs remember that she WAS in the first diabolical six headed by Josh. SHE is the one who got the ball rolling by putting Marcellas' head on the block because it was the SIX's snap judgement. She still holds fond feelings for the coupled four (Eric, her, Chiara and Roddy). She is not a bystander in all the evil-doings of this house.

I definitely don't want one of the original six to get the grand prize no matter how much Lisa may have "changed" and/or how generous she appears to be. And, if she stays in the top two... she's a shoe-in with the "couple" block voting for her along with Tonya, Marcellas and probably Gerry. HGs beware! THINK SMART!

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I will answer it for you. No one in this thread said that Lisa was playing to the jury, even though you tried in vain to say that. Lisa was not a pawn to Danielle and Jason, even though you have said that. Lisa was not dumb in refusing the $15,000, even though you have said that. Lisa would most surely beat Danielle in a one on one against the jury, even though you say Danielle will win this game. Lisa's style of playing this game is foreign to what you may find logical, but it is getting the job done so far. Danielle WILL NOT win this game.

Mrdisguise

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
But don't you think that it is kind of silly to turn down $5000, $10 000, or $15 000 for a 3 minute phone call- when you know that you WILL be leaving the house soon??

It is honorable but...

Earthmother

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
This was the only competition Lisa could win, and she had to know Amy would take it. I can't believe anyone would have not taken it. Given the fact that there are so few left and the last competition will probably be some kind of trivia thing, odds are Lisa won't have a chance. She has not proven to me that she even tried to get to know most of the hgs. She should have at least tried for it. I can't give her cudos for once again not playing the game, but using friendship (which none of them really are) as a reason not to play. That would have been a nobel gesture if with family or best friends, but not with virtual strangers, or contestants in a game show.

I think Lisa only called herself the Princess of Darkness because she had her eyes closed when she said it.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think I would have taken the money. Lisa is who she is. She was loyal. No criticism. I certainly wouldn't call her "dumb".

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What555: "If you look at the two strongest players -- one is a woman and one is a man. They played with cunning, logic and strategy. Even when it was hard for them to make a decision because of their emotions, they still made that decision based on cunning, logic and strategy."

It looks like we're on the same team again because I agree with this statement 100%. It took a while but I knew we'd be back on the same side of the fence eventually. :O

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good lord, Wood. Let it die.

Mellbell416

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
At this point, whoever gets to the final two is at least partly dependent on luck - whoever wins the next HOH will have true decisive power, and that will be up for grabs soon. But if you want to look at how successful the women have been, look at the ratios! THREE women, 1 guy in the house. And if you look at Survivor, 2 guys and 2 girls have won so far. Women may employ different strategies then men, but I would say that they are equally likely to succeed.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Never really thought we were on different wavelengths, Wcv. It just took me a while to convince you! <g>

Now, if you want my REAL opinion of women.....

LOL!!!!

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Jake, great post!

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It was a sincere gesture, and she showed the other players a lot of respect, earned or not. I give her kudos.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good lord, What, stop saying things that you can't explain.

Oregonfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
For some reason Lisa turning down the money bugged me. For some reason I'm starting to lean more towards not liking her than liking her lately. I guess the whole holier-than-thou attitude--"How can you put a price on a phone call?"--bugged me. Maybe this is some kind of moral failing on my part. Out of the four left, she is my least favorite at this point.

Dntx4bb3

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What555: "If you look at the two strongest players -- one is a woman and one is a man. They played with cunning, logic and strategy. Even when it was hard for them to make a decision because of their emotions, they still made that decision based on cunning, logic and strategy."


I must disagree here...When Jason was HOH he did not Nominate Roddy. It wasn't cunning, logical, nor strategy... that was PURE emotion!!

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecker, whether or not it was a sincere gesture(and we can't hope to be able to read her mind) it still didn't take into account how her housemates would react to the same "bribe." The others knew that at least one of their housemates would take the deal. They thought it through.

FWIW, I do think Lisa is playing for the end game now. Not that there is anything wrong with it. Her strategy MAY work and we all know she already has 5 guaranteed votes should she make it to the end.

Personally, I don't feel sleeping through the first half of the game and then latching on to an alliance showed superior game playing skills but who says winning this game is based on playing the game the best?

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree with you Oregon, but your reasons make sense. At least you are honest.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Dntx. it was jason's major mistake in this game and the reason I think he should not win over Dani. Had it not been for Dani cleaning up the mess the next week, it could have unraveled the entire thing.

Mellbell416

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
True, Dntx - Dani has allowed far less of her emotions to affect her strategic decisions then Jason. Although Jason's stock has been rising with me because he's made some tough decisions lately without falling apart. That "I know it sounds harsh, but you should have used the veto, Marcellus. I vote to evict you from the house" speech took guts.