Archive through September 15, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game. (ARCHIVE):
Archive through September 15, 2002
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:20 pm     "It is just a game." "It is business, it is not personal." "I’m doing this for my family." "If the devil lies to you then it is okay to lie to the devil." "It is just my work place." "It is business, it is not personal." "I gotta get the promotion to provide for my family." "I don't care who I screw over to get this promotion." Calling it a game is just an excuse. How can it be just a game if you are willing to throw away your honor and character with the excuse of doing it for your family? Is that a good enough excuse? If it is a game, then it is NOT business. If it is business, then it is NOT a game. And if it is for your family, then it is NOT a game, NOT business, BUT personal. These people are not new to use. We have met them all at one time or another in our everyday lives. Just think about it. (pause) Think about how many people screwed you over at work... or you screwed them over (but I'm sure you had a good excuse, right?) or how many times have you been screwed over by a loved one? Cheated on? Lied to? Ever do it yourself? Remember high school? Was there a bully or were you the bully? If you think about it, you really know these people, because you have life experience with people that are like these people. I can hear you now--- and of course you can’t know them 100%. You can’t know anyone 100%! But you know enough to make a valid assessment. It is your life experience that tells you who they are. And what you can and can’t expect from them. People that are really good at lying didn’t just start doing it. People that are good at using other people didn’t just start doing it. They are good at it because they have been doing it for a long time. I’ll say it again. They are good at it because they have been doing it a long time. The excuse that they are different OUTSIDE of the house is pure bull****. They might be a little different, but at the core? No. Not different. Maybe the first 4 HG's were not around long enough for their true character to be exposed, but certainly we are at the point where these people are truly known to us. I do not think a trained spy could pretend this long under 24/7 observation. And these people are not trained spies! Not trained actors. Not trained to be anything other than what they are. Just people. Think about it--- if you had a friend that went on the show and for 3 months was able to hide his/her true character and personality wouldn't that make you wonder about them? What kind of skill allows you to hide your true character 24/7 for that long? It can't be done. I couldn’t do it and neither could you. And why would you want to? Would you have such little confidence in your own personality and character that you would have to try and fabricate a new one? Why wouldn’t you just trust that your REAL SELF was your BEST SELF and go with that? That your REAL SELF was good enough. (You know the answer to this. – Yes. Yes, you do.) I really believe what we are seeing ARE THE REAL PEOPLE. Doesn't your instinct tell you this? Of course we don't see every single aspect--- but we see enough to recognize character traits. Good cannot hide good. Evil cannot hide evil. And stupid will always have the opportunity to surface. What they are doing to each other (and the way they do it) they do to people in real life. To people at work. To their families. To their enemies. How do you think they talk about their neighbor across the street? Their in-laws? Classmates? Friends? What do you say about your neighbors? This is not really a game. It is a crude psychological experiment disguised as a game which is disguised as TV entertainment that is really just a money making business. Mark my words, at some time on one of these long-run "reality game shows" one of the evicted is going to walk off - watch the tapes and then take their life. It will be the first time they see themselves as what they thought they never were. And that will mark the end of these TV shows. Calling it a "game" is an excuse that people use to hide character flaws. Using the word “just” makes it seem unimportant. You can't hide your flaws forever. We are watching a microcosm of life. It is the exposition of character. The display of intelligence (or lack of it) and the ability to empathize, think, learn, articulate, calculate, care, love and hate. Show respect for yourself, for others. These people have done what they are doing in the house years before they even got there. And they will continue once they get out. They are what they are. They didn't invent the "good stuff" and they can hide the "bad stuff." It is all out there at this point. To applaud a person's good traits and then say their bad traits are not who they really are “outside the house” is just flawed logic. You can't have it both ways. But I say again, it is all out there at this point. (People call Colby a fool, but he had character. And that is something money can't buy.) I am tired of the "game" excuse. There will always be a "game" excuse for these people. It is not a game. It is a part of their lives that they will never be able to erase. It is documented for all time. Every moment. Every word. Every action. "I said I would do it, but I didn't give my word. It is just a game." "My word is gold." (long pause while he walks away) "Not." "I didn't shake on it. You are fired. It is just work. I've got my family to think about." "It all depends what your definition of the word 'is' is." As long as the end justifies the means, that's all the excuse they need. Just because your family needs toilet paper and pencils is no excuse to steal them from the office. (You know who you are, or you know of someone who did. OR maybe they stole from you?) At some time you have to take responsibility for yourself. Stop making excuses for these people, they are making enough of their own. Do you/did you know anyone in your life experience like any one of these people? Do you want to share the thought? (((This is a no-excuse thread. Brave, honest posts only))) |
Gouraphik | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:31 pm     Tobor7, that was a very astute (if somewhat long, but I've been known to be a bit verbose myself ) post. Perhaps the heated ideological clash going on at the moment will cool down a bit as a result. But then again, maybe not. Oh well! LOL! |
Crossfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:33 pm     A common thread in the advice past contestants on the show always give when asked, is 'Just be yourself". Is that because that is what they did? Or is it because they went nuts trying to be something else? One of these days, I hope someone will ask the followup when that answer is given. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:34 pm     As one of the characters said on CSI the other night, "Wake up and smell the species." I guess I'm just realistic about my fellow man (and woman). We are creatures interested in our own self-preservation--some are just willing to go farther for it than others. I think most people's lives revolve around power--gaining it over ourselves, fighting to keep it, getting out from under it, and trying to exercise it over others. That sounds really pessimistic, doesn't it? Still, I'm a benevolent pessimist: because I know how hard it is to be human, I'm pretty forgiving of my fellow species mates. |
Jaysgal | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:37 pm     Pheeew! It's such a relief to see a post that essentially argues that games or whatever one chooses to call them must also have code of ethics. That is my belief about this game. There is no absolute justification for all or selective actions. I will continue to hold each houseguest to a certain standard. Even in times of war, there are code of ethics on both sides. Every activity must have one. I do not believe that Reality TV shows are an exception to it. After all, what makes it reality if we are forbidden from critiquing it as we would our daily life activities, encounters and people? |
Bbnan | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:38 pm     Someone on the British BB did commit suicide. I bet you are really young if you haven't met people like those in the BB3 house. I've met people like them. I think they are all normal people. None of them are "bad" people. |
Curlyq | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:42 pm     Wow. This post reminds me of last year's Monica. I remember how she kept saying she knew who everybody was because she worked with people just like them. For the most part you've said what I've been thinking for the last two seasons. I always roll my eyes at the sound of "No hard feelings, it's just a game." They usually say this about 10 minutes before meltdown. Games are supposed to be fun and make you laugh and smile. Games shouldn't make you cry or feel bad about yourself. I prefer to call it a competition. I also agree that if a person does something despicable it means that they have it in them to do things like that. Some people would never lead someone on and then stab them in the back because they just don't have it in them. It's hard for me to accept the idea that the players are only doing these things because it's just a game. I don't turn into a different person every time I play a game. As a poster pointed out in another thread, a lot of us were raised to believe that its how you play the game that matters most. People seem to be leaving this house with a lot of hard feelings, according to their post-game chats and interviews. Gerry is hurt by Marcellas and Danielle. Chiara is upset that Danielle played her. Tonya and Chiara still can't stand Amy. I'm sure Marcellas won't be sending Jason any Christmas cards. The "game" is over for these people but the hurt lives on. If they believed that all's fair in the game and that these people are different outside of the house, they wouldn't still be upset. |
Screeminmeemie | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:55 pm     Regardless of how a person plays the "game", there is a very high price to pay for winning. Personally, I would never enter a reality game show if I had children. They too pay a terribly high price for the "game". The parents of the children on the show also pay a high price. I believe that there are two harsh realities in life. 1) The realization that you do not have perfect parents and 2) The realization that you do not have perfect children. This game brings both of these realities to light for the families of the participants. For them, it ceases to be a game. |
Bunyun | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:16 pm     (clears throat, ahumm) TO BE, OR NOT TO BE. THAT IS THE QUESTION......... |
Bearware | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:23 pm     This show reminds me of the famous anecdote in which a man asks a woman, "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" "For a million bucks? Yes, if you'll give me the cash first." she says. "Well," replies the man, "I don't have a million dollars. Would you sleep with me for ten?" "What kind of a woman do you think I am?" she replies. "Well, I think we've already established that, now all we have to do is agree on the price." I agree, the nature of this show may be to add temptation and peer pressure to misbehave, but the general character of the person shines through. All this show has done is to put a price tag to most of the misbehaviour we have witnessed. |
Bailey | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:28 pm     Tobor, thank you for a very insightful and well thought out post. There's nothing I can say to add to it since I agree wholeheartedly with everything you wrote. I'm not surprised that some have thought it important to come here and mock it.. afterall.. some people just are who they are... |
Seamonkey | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:42 pm     Well said.. personally I don't believe that the ends justify the means.. some people may rationalize that they do, but.. nope. I think many people on these reality shows look back and flinch (and this is even on shows like Real World where there isn't a "game" or "prize") and some of them refuse to associate with the experience later on. Some come out and don't get it when it is really "over" and keep flogging the experience for more. A few actually learn something personally and benefit (not referring to BB here). A few win big prizes and fewer of those are actually "better" or "happier" for it. |
Puzzled | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:01 pm     You can bet when someone says to you "It's just a game," or "Business is business," that they are about to or have already done you dirt. It is a lame justifications. Exception - if it really is a game, like your kid just lost a game in Little League. "Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction." Thomas Jefferson |
Seamonkey | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:23 pm     Yeah, like when someone says something cruel or inappropriate and then if you call them on it they say "hey, it was just a JOKE". Yeah. |
Puzzled | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:41 pm     Yeah, and I love it when someone does that and the person they said it to looks around the room and says, "*No one's* laughing." |
Bearware | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:44 pm     In reading this thread, I am only confused by one response, and that's Bailey's. I can't figure out who came to mock, Bailey. ???? I am reading a group of people who agree, the game shows the character of the people playing, and we are saddened by the lack therein on the part of some of the players. Help? |
Boodles | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 07:44 pm     Tobor. Brilliant. You said everything I couldn't put into words. The only thing I question is whether a suicide would stops the reality shows. Someone commited murder after being on a talk show and that show is still on. Sad to say (not to mention making me sick to think so), but something like that would probably boost ratings. |
Beobachter | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:01 pm     Tobor7, thanks for posting what I have been thinking for weeks now. There is a difference between smart, strategic play and outright lying and bad-mouthing your opponents as a means toward winning a prize. |
Cassie | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:19 pm     Well stated, Tobor. I believe that this show is an exposition of character and intelligence, above all else. I get sick when I read so many posts praising severe character flaws as good game-playing. If you're sly, duplicitous, and backstabbing then that's how you'll interact with others; you cannot "act" that way unless you are that way. Thanks for a great post! |
Jimmer | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:26 pm     Bearware, I'm not saying this happened here but sometimes the Moderators delete offensive posts and change the character of a thread as a result, making some of the other posts seem inconsistent (not a criticism, just stating a fact). |
What555456 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:27 pm     It seems to me that none of these peoiple -- no matter how bad or how nice they seem to be -- has any strong ethics -- except the basic American ethic if greed and materialism. (How do we Americans spell success? M_O_N_E_Y and lots of it!) I cannot even conceive of someone for whom the ethical treatment of others is important would agree to be on this show. They all knew what it was like and what they would have to do when they signed up. The decision to sell out their ethics and dignity was made way back when they applied for this. This is why I do not see one HG as any more moral than any other players. They all placed the money higher than anything else in their lives. They can talk all they want about this being to fulfill dreams, learn about themselves, experience something, or whatever. Lots of ways to do that sort of thing without being in this kind of situation. I would like Dani to win because I think she has played this game the best. I think Amy is a troubled alcoholic young lady. I think Lisa is amazingly naive and slow. I do not for a minute buy that Jason is a virgin or this nice young Christian guy he portrays himself to be. And I do not think one of them has their priorities right -- they all sold out their basic dignity and ethics for money, nothing but money. |
Bailey | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:31 pm     Bearware, Jimmer is right.. the offensive post(s) I was referring to was deleted. Sorry for the confusion. |
Jimmer | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:36 pm     Since we are offering opinions here, I don't think that Amy is an alcoholic. If she is, she's got to be the cheapest drunk of all time. I think oddly enough that she probably hasn't drunk a lot in her regular life. I think Lisa is naive at times but I don't think she is amazingly slow. I have no reason to believe that Jason isn't who he says he is. And Dani is evil (sorry ... I just said that to upset the Dani fans - couldn't resist).  |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:36 pm     Mod-- Thanks for deleting the one bad (unresponsive) post. Makes this whole thing read a lot better. |
What555456 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:39 pm     Jimmer! As a Dani fan, I may have to brand you as the DEVIL!!!!! LOL!!!!! |
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