Archive through September 15, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game. (ARCHIVE):
Archive through September 15, 2002
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:40 pm     To all those thanking me for this post-- You are welcome. I've been thinking about this for a while and just wanted to get it off my chest. I am actually surprised that so many people seem to have similar thoughts. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:42 pm     Jaysgal-- Nice addition. Valid points. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:45 pm     Bbnan-- I never said they were "bad" people. I said WE SEE THEIR REAL CHARACTER (words to that effect) whatever that character may be. I'm 46 years old. Still not sure what "normal" really is. |
Shortnsweet | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:46 pm     Yes! Tabor7 you did a great job of expressing how I have felt since BB2. Thank you! |
Sbw | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:46 pm     *I cannot even conceive of someone for whom the ethical treatment of others is important would agree to be on this show.* Just call me naive! I believe and I have hope! |
Wcv63 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:48 pm     I'm sorry but put anyone in these conditions under a microscope for 24/7 and I doubt anyone would fare very well in the character department. The very nature of this game is about deceit and strategy. The goal is to get to the end anyway one can. You can argue all you want about character flaws, integrity, ethics etc but the fact is that each and every one of these contestants is a human being with both good and bad sides to their character. Some will choose only to see the good. Some will choose to focus on the bad. Others will see flawed humans playing a flawed game for big money. |
Jimmer | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:49 pm     Despite some of their claims to the contrary, I think that the houseguests are pretty much the same outside the house, but that the game does tend to magnify certain characteristics that are normally not as noticeable in real life. As far as saying it's "just a game" and not real life, I have little doubt that given similar opportunities to pursue $500,000 outside of the house, the houseguests would respond in a similar fashion as they have inside the house. |
What555456 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:51 pm     Sbw -- but how could someone who had high ethics be on this game? It's basic premise is greed and what you are willing to do for money. The moment one places a price on their ethics, by definition they have said their ethics are up for sale. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:58 pm     Screem-- Like your post. Very good comments. Thanks for participating. |
Bernie | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:58 pm     Tobor, I also have to say that I feel that you are perfectly correct in your assessment. I'm 57 years old, and I've met these types of people, I've worked with them, and been screwed by them. I've avoided arguing when the 'it's a game' comment is used, because I don't agree with it, and sometimes you just can't be bothered to argue the same point over and over again, about different HGs, at different stages of the competition. At the beginning of BB3, I posted about how disgusted I was by this year's crop of HGs, and although I've come to like some of them, I still feel that way about most of them. They aren't nice, and I wouldn't want to know them, or if I did, would try very hard to keep them at arm's length from me and mine. I applaud your courage in speaking up. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:04 pm     But Wcv63, (thanks for jumping in) do you think what we are seeing now are the TRUE PEOPLE or not? Do you think the excuses they are using for their actions are valid? (They call it a "game" - the producers never called it a "game.") And I'm not talking about "anyone" -- I'm talking about the people we are all currently watching now. |
Wcv63 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:13 pm     No Tobor, I don't. This is an artificial situation where people are confined in an artificial environment with no access to any of the things/people one normally would turn to for comfort, entertainment, love and support. They are cut off from television, movies, music, family, friends, love, news and FREEDOM. Just the freedom to move about, go to the mall, run to the store, go to the park, play with your kids. Nothing we are seeing has any basis on real life or real circumstances. Therefore, no, I don't believe we are seeing the real character of the houseguests but rather very exaggerated stress filled and locked up individuals with very limited opportunities. Kinda like jail but with the potential of a payoff at the end. Watch out for that shiv. It's survival of the fittest in action. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:19 pm     Good stuff Jimmer! I agree with you. Thanks for jumping in. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:20 pm     I think the HGs actions are valid. They are playing a "life game" that is accelerated, magnified, and exaggerated to an incredible degree. Exaggerated lying and deceit comes with the terrority. The only player who offended me with his playing style was Roddy, and even he had his supporters. Is the lack of ethics being discussed in this thread defined as, "something that someone else is willing to do, but I am not"? Sure sounds that way to me. I'm sorry, but I must've missed the last moral majority meeting. I'm too much of a moral relativist to really get on board with this one. |
Jimmer | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:24 pm     Granted the house is a contrived environment, but don't you think these same people would display similar characteristics if it would get them $500,000 outside of the house? |
Wcv63 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:30 pm     Jimmer only in similar circumstances with similar rules and for similar reasons. The contrived environment, confinement and lack of outside stimulation and family support all the while being under a microscope 24/7 all very important factors in actions, reactions, activities and choices. I don't believe that anything we are seeing is based on real life or real life attitudes. There are too many contraints to call this anything other than artificial. Prison with perks if you will. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:30 pm     Wcv63-- Sounds like you are making excuses to me. Have you ever read "Lord Of The Flies"? So you are saying that if a group of people got stranded on an island their true character would not dictate their actions? (because as you say "They are cut off from television, movies, music, family, friends, love, news and FREEDOM. Just the freedom to move about, go to the mall, run to the store, go to the park, play with your kids.") Just because you are deprived of all your normal distractions and pleasures is not an excuse for lapses in character. In fact, when things are at their worst is when character means the most. As far as your JAIL thought--- That makes my point exactly. The real criminals continue to be criminals in jail, and the ones who are really sorry about their lapse actually take the time to better themselves. It really is all about character. With or without normal life distractions. |
What555456 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:30 pm     Jimmer Yes. If money is that important to you that you would agree to be placed in a position like this where lying and baskstabbing and betrayal is acceptable, you would be willing to do it anywhere else. And yes, Oregonfire, I do believe most people are too ethical to be on this show -- and many of the other reality shows. Does that mean they do not do these things at times? No. But it does mean they would not consciously and premeditatively agree to do it so often and so thoroughly and to so many people. Is that judgmental? Yes. Does it bother me to judge people as unethical? We all do it all the time. Anyone wanna comment on what they think of the typical politician? |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:32 pm     Bernie-- Thanks for your post. Much thanks. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:32 pm     The question for me is, "If you rounded up 12 random people off the street, would they end up acting similiar to these current hgs?" And if we're talking about a half mil outside of the house, what are the conditions? Are they all bucking for the same promotion? Are they all trying to be left in the will of the same millionaire? Are they standing in a wind tunnel with the half mil being suctioned through in small bills and occasionally monster trucks try to run them over while they stuff bills in their pants? What is the context? I just don't agree that this group of hgs are especially depraved. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:34 pm     Oregonfire-- Do you think we saw the real Roddy but not the real anyone else? |
Wcv63 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:37 pm     Nope Tobor. You are wrong. I am not making excuses rather I am making observations based on facts. You mention Colby in your initial post. Unfortunately that argument is flawed as we only saw Colby's edited character on television. We did not see him 24/7 so that any lapses in character or integrity could be dissected, discussed and bashed. I have read Lord of the Flies and once again your argument is flawed. There was no "law" to govern the boys other than the law they made for themselves. In this contest Big Brother is omnipresent making the rules, changing the rules and adding twists along the way. Also no one has been stoned and physically attacked. As for you last comment....people better themselves in jail by taking classes (which are not available) joining groups that are positive in nature (once again, not available), etc. One can only work within the contraints of availability. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:38 pm     I never said "especially depraved" those are your words. And I think the producers picked each person for a specific personality trait. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:40 pm     I think I'm seeing the "real" all of them, and I'm sure they don't care a whit what I think. And even if I'm not seeing the "real" them, I don't find that they are all Dorian Greys suddenly revealed as hideous monsters. They are flawed human beings. I'm judging Roddy by my own "moral code," and no one has to agree with me, so I recongize that my code of ethics is relative to me and reflects my own life experiences and <gasp!> even flaws. The rest of them have not done anything seriously meriting my censure. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:41 pm     Yes, you are right, Tabor. Those are my words. My comments are not addressed to anyone in particular, I just don't happen to agree with the premise of your argument. |
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