The need to Apologize
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Archive through September 17, 2002 25   09/17 03:10pm
Archive through September 17, 2002 25   09/17 11:18pm

Sam222

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:18 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I am truly not a Tonya fan I really don't care one way or the other about her and at this point I barely remember her, but I do not think she owes an apology to one single person in that house. They have bashed her constantly and next to the Gerry pedophile comments what has been said about her has been the most offensive and damaging. So I don't think any of them deserve anything from her.

C1mag

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I could agree with that Sam except for one small little conversation Tonya had with Dani and the girls... She admitted that she was high every time she concieved a kid. It's sorta hard not to form a negative opinion when some mother announces this type of stuff to the world. The comments about her features were bound to get bashed by who she was. I'm pretty sure she was prepared for that.

Sam222

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
C1mag...even if they feel justified in their bashing do you think she owes anyone an apology?

Wendo

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sam222, Tonya was quite mean and rude to Amy in the beginning of the show. There were several times where she said some not so nice things about her. Tonya owes Amy an apology just as Amy owes Tonya one.

C1mag

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sam Tonya was the instigator of the Chiara and Amy hatred. She would literally run to Chiara and make a spin on anything that Amy would do or say around Roddy. She had Chiara reacting so stupid it was almost pathetic. It just seemed to be odd behavior for an almost 40 year old woman to give a damn about some relationship going on durring a game.

Sam222

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
OK, I really need to go to bed and I am really not defending Tonya, but I remember the second day that the live feeds were available, so I guess day 5 in the house, I saw Marc and Amy have a conversation about Tonya making her kids make some money by prostituting them (literally), granted we don't know what happened before we had access to the feeds but I remember being so shocked at that conversation. I am fully aware that Tonya said some awful things about Amy but nothing close to that, there is also the fact that this woman has been out of the house for months now and she is brought up pretty much everyday. I am just thinking if I were her I wouldn't be even able to look at any of these people let alone apologize to them. OK 5 hours till I have to get up, I need to shut up, stop rambling, (I think I long ago stopped making sense) and go to sleep! Quick side note: Wendo and C1mag I have always enjoyed your posts even if I don't always agree with them! goodnight

C1mag

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks sam! I understand where you are coming from. I even questioned why Amy and Marc nailed Tonya so early on but I think it was the temperature brewing in the house with Tonya being an instigator within those crazy relationships and I think that both Marc and Amy could not stand what she represents with all the plastic sex appeal.

Eden

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think you have to allow that people say catty things! YES, NEWSFLASH: as hard as it is to admit, often HUMANS say unkind, petty things about people they barely know!

Would any of you care to be held to the standard that you hold the HGs to? Not one small minded insult about a co-worker as an aside? No recriminations for something said about a neighbor to your spouse? No catty comments with friends about other friends? No judgmental conclusions about HGs? I'm not saying this is admirable behavior, merely human and hardly the despicable, UNHEARD of, arms raised above your head in incredulity, type actions that most seem to make it. I would gladly bet that not one person has never been guilty of the same in one way or another.

Wendo

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Back at ya Sam, dig your posts too. Great debate. I didn't know about that first Amy and Mar convo, interesting stuff for sure. Seems like they all were in to the trash talking from the beginning eh? What a bunch.

And, Eden, well said. I won't hold myself to higher standard. I admit it, I've participated in gossipy behavior. I try not too, however, I know I have.

(Btw, someone mentioned the Real Worl: Las Vegas premire tonight; just watched it and OMG, the BB3 HG's have nothing on these RW folks. Just one episode and they're fighting away. LOL!)

Bernie

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisad, since you mention one poster who is an Amy fan having said that the kissing drama on Monday night was staged, I have to assume that you mean me, since I posted continuously from about 11.45pm to 1.30am that night.
I don't mind that you think I might have been mistaken but I do mind that you imply that because I'm an Amy fan that I made up what I posted.
I watched the feeds almost continuously on Monday from late afternoon, until the houseguests went to sleep, with only a break while they were in the hot-tub because I had to take care of my pets, so I was aware of everything that happened before the bedroom capers.
I began doing live feeds last year, and the rules are, you post only what you see and hear, and don't add anything, nor do you subtract anything. Personal comments are also frowned upon, and obvious bias also, in your choice of words. The most difficult part of live feed posting for me is getting everything, because I'm a two-finger typist and so when I do the posts I'm usually going hell for leather, and haven't time to add anything, or comment. I think my typos, and lack of good spacing attest to that fact. I usually only have time to proofread my final post, once they're asleep, because as soon as I submit one post, I begin another, without pausing. I don't write things that don't happen, and I try hard not to show bias in my way of writing. I do miss getting everything, because I'm just not fast enough.
If you read my posts from Monday night you will see that each carries on from where the previous one left off, and I wrote only what I saw and heard, and nothing else. I have no wish to criticise other posters, but one gave a summary and gave up because of disgust, and the other came into the middle of the action because of having been asleep. My posts stated what things were said, as they were said, and what happened, when and where they happened, in chronological order. That's it, and the EDs which I posted were my reactions to it. No more, no less.
I was amazed when I finished posting and came to the threads to find that others had a different take on what I had watched and listened to, but that's not rare here, and so I doubted myself. Had I misread things so badly? I checked other sites and found that others had come to the same conclusion, and also, other posters here have agreed with my take on the night's events.
At the beginning of the convo last night, at the patio table between Jason, Lisa and Danielle, when they talked about the kiss, Jason began by getting at Danielle, for being 'the instigator' and he said it twice. If it wasn't a set-up, why did Jason say that? It isn't in the live feeds posts, because as I said, it's very hard to get every word down, but there must be others who heard that, I didn't make it up. I was hoping for a postmortem discussion to see how the houseguests viewed what had happened, after the divergent views of the night before, and so I took particular notice.
I thank those who took the trouble to post the differing point of view, and I'm sorry that I've taken so much space defending myself, but I take exception to being thought a fabricator-that's just another word for liar.

Itsallgood

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Beautifully said Bernie. Ty for your LF postings. You do a great job and I for one know you do it honestly, even tho you are an Amy Fan!

Costacat

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eden, there is a world of difference between an occasional "catty" comment or gossip remark, and a daily "catty" or bashing of another. And that is why I think apologies *are* in order. If, for example, Danielle had called Roddy "the devil" once or twice, I'd probably just ignore it. But she called him that numerous times a day. For another example, if Tonya had gone running to Chiara only once about Amy and Roddy chatting together, that would be no big deal. But to constantly keep Chiara informed is just plain tattling. In addition, the numerous times Amy called Chiara her pet name for her (which I will not deign to repeat here) calls for an apology. Actually, as Amy realizes, a single instance of that name deserves an apology.

So yes, I do make catty remarks on occasion. But I don't do it constantly, daily, and for the entertainment value. Big difference, to me. But that may be my own personal reaction based on my own personal moral code -- I try to treat others with respect and dignity, as I want others to treat me.

Edited to add: Yes, I do hold myself to those standards which I expect the HGs to perform under. Unlike Marcellas, who appears to want to play nice yet consistently didn't, I don't bash anyone intentionally. And I do not do it and tell someone it's for his or her "own good." So, yes, go ahead and hold me to those standards.

Csnog

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I wanted to see if I could find a moment on the LF reporting that indicated Dannie and Jason's alliance so I went back and read the first few days of LF.

I found it VERY interesting.

Reading just from the first night until the 1st veto meeting took a loooooong time due to the diligence of the LF posters.

I found quite a few short conversations between Marc and Gerry, Marc and Amy, Marc and Lori, Marc and Dannie, Dannie and Gerry and one with Marc and Roddy and Chiara.

I was surprised to remember that they did talk openly about the race issue. I was also surprised that Roddy and Chiara did indeed tell Marc, that Lori may be voted out because of her meltdown.

I didn't read about Lori being THAT upset but Marc sure was. Lori seemed to be a caring person and was continually reassuring Marc.

The cameras also seemed to be on Tonya and Josh a lot, so we would not know all the conversations that went on but, it was clear that Marc, Dannie, and Lori, knew somewhat of Gerrys feelings as he spouted what he was going to do, to them. Gerry was SO expecting that Lisa would nominate Josh.

If you remember, Marc had a smile on his face when Gerry used the veto because he knew Gerry was going to save him. Gerry thought that Josh would be up in his place and evicted.

I have to admit that I skipped over a lot of Tonya's conversations because there were a lot of them.

By the way, the only connection between Dannie and Jason from the first day of LF's and the veto meeting was playing cards a few times.

Marc mentioned that Amy was the first person to let him be himself and that Gerry was his friend.

It also seemed that Marc and Amy were together a lot and Gerry and Lori so that left Dannie and Jason while Roddy, Chiara, Lisa, Eric, Josh and Tonya hung out together.

Wendo

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Perhaps some knew what Gerry's intent for the PoV meeting speech was, but maybe they didn't realize he was going to sound like he was pointing at the others in the six alliance as well.

Let's be fair here, after Gerry made his speech, the overwhelming feeling on the board felt he went overboard with it. I think if Gerry had made more of an effort to state he was talking about himself and not the others, they wouldn't have been so angry at him.

Remember, Lisa mentioned in a DR on the next show that they were all ignoring him because he 1. vetoed Mar and went against the alliance and, 2. because his speech sounded like he accused the others of picking on Mar for his race and sexuality. (Though, I don't think that was Gerry's intent.) And, Josh's behavior towards Gerry became extreme after that as well.

Plus, his speech almost became like an overblown fairy tale in a sense. Instead of remembering what his goal was, to get Mar off, they all just remembered how awful it sounded about the rest of them.

Csnog

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The 6-pack had changed before the veto meeting.

Amy was out and Roddy was in.

Josh used Gerry's use of the veto as an excuse. Josh knew he was not in control any more but would not admit it.

Boberry

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that Gerry was very clear in his speech that he was speaking for himself and not others. Whether the others chose to take it as directed at them is exactly that, their choice. I would not have taken Gerry's speech as being directed at me, UNLESS maybe there was actually some truth to it and I had a guilty conscience. As far as I am concerned, any of the houseguests who took Gerry's speech personally have issues they need to work on, and its always easier to kill the messenger, even when the message isn't being directed at you. There is no sense of personal responsibility left in this country and its a damn shame.

Lynnann

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bernie- good post and you might as well drop the subject because these other posters are in dire need of defending themselves against the truth . Just consider the source.

Lisad

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't even read Bernie's LF's. I watched it as it unfolded. Were you up that late to see it yourself? Source considered.

Lynnann

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes quite a few people were up to watch the live feeds- we saw what really happened including Dani getting drunker than Amy could ever imagine. LOL

Wendo

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lynnann, we all have different perspectives of the various things we view on the live feeds. I watched that night as well. And, while I do believe it was mostly a prank on Jason, there was for a certain amount of time where Amy was not joking, but acting a bit, well, whiney. She recovered a bit later and that was that. No need to diss other posters for their different viewpoints because they don't jive with yours.