Archive through September 15, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Lisa mades some points last night with this Jason fan,,,: Archive through September 15, 2002

Wcv63

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What, actually I think Jason wanted Gerry out more as he viewed Gerry as a bigger personal threat than Roddy.

Mellbell416

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
WCV, Jason didn't nominate Roddy because Roddy had guilted him into it with his "I have looked out for you time and time again" speech. He was in tears about it in the diary room. Maybe there were auxiliary issues as well, but that was the primary motivation.

Oregonfire

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I will give Lisa this: she has managed to capitalize on every chance in the game to advance herself, whether that be the Chiara voting misstep, or not voting to bring Eric back in the house so she could focus in the game, and even mistakenly not voting for Marc to leave could work in her favor with the jury! And now this turning down the money thing when everyone else was selfish and greedy. Again, an uncanny ability to capitalize on the moment. Whether she always plans it that way or it's just dumb luck I don't know.

But I dunno, on a personal level, Lisa just kinda bugs me. Not really sound reasoning, just some kind of gut level dislike or mistrust. Shrug. Why does anyone really like or dislike anyone in this game?

Wiseolowl

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
For what it's worth I agree with Wrat1010 as to Lisa's principal (not principled) motive. She is on thin ice and she was shakened and frightened by what went down with Marcellus exit. -I just think she was afraid to risk the jealousy and anger of the others if she appeared selfish and shut the others out. If she had been the only one to accept the offer. - it would have given them the excuse to evict her.

Faith

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When this thread first started I feel I was so "simple" in my thinking. I just saw it as a competition about choosing "self" or "team". I liked that Lisa chose the team! I didn't see it effecting the overall "GAME" or the jury. I didn't see it as logic -vs- emotion. I didn't see it as male -vs- female. I love this board and all who post here!!! I always come away thinking on such a higher/deeper level. I love the diversity - thank you all! (I am being sincere here :))

Csnog

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
While I like Lisa, I just think Lisa is clueless.

Lisa has no idea how the world works.

So many times she has not known about simple things.

Part of why she seems this way to me is in how she just walked through the laser comp. Everyone had to read the instructions themselves and I think Lisa has a reading problem and didn't understand the instructions.

She tries to use her head but her emotions get in the way. Thus seeing the final 4 as family rather than contestants.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
She lost the laser competition on purpose.

Cindyluvsroddy

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
i agree with 'WHAT' said on some level ... in general, women are more Emotional then men ...

look at Amy. she is all about emotion ...

in general i think men would be better equiped to play with logic, and stragedy etc ....

but ...

that doesn't mean that women cant or wont ever win this game ..

Lisa and Dani are both strong women who are not playing with emotion .. they r playing with logic ..

example with lisa - she didnt vote Eric back in the house ....

im speaking on general terms here ....

Blossumtree

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
you can't take lisa's actions and make a blanket statement about ALL women. look at dani, married mother of 2 children, very maternal in the house as well. you can hardly get more woman than that and she uses her maternal instincts to play this game like a pro. she used emotion AND logic to get to where she is now, which will most likely take her to the end.

Csnog

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think she lost on purpose.

I think she didn't understand it and just said she threw it.

Weinermr

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm not sure it takes being a diabolical genius to win the game. I happen to think that Lisa is alot smarter than many other people think, and that she is making conscious decisions as she progresses through the game. But even if Lisa is not playing the game better than any of the others remaining (whatever "playing the game" really means), if she is the last one standing, chosen to win by the jury, then I think she deserves the win.

And I would say the same thing about any of the others.

Jaysgal

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
As much as I think that Lisa is generally dull, I applaud her decision. Nonetheless, I have no problem with people who agreed to sell out because I'm a strong believer in moral egoism in this aspect. They're self-interested; so be it.

Lisa argued that she really wanted to talk to her dad, but attaching such strings would be like putting a price on your loved one. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing. It would be pricing some human if you believe strongly that everyone deserved to speak to their loved ones. But if one takes the clearly self-interested approach, it would not be pricing for gambling to get some money for yourself and still speak to a close one or relative.

I said when the show first started, although Lisa was not my favourite of player, I would not mind if she won the game, especially as she's performed her duties professionally. I was disappointed with her creation of a false dilemma that she had to belong to either Roddy's gang or Danielle's gang. She should have learned from Chiara's decision that you simply cannot trust anyone, whether Danielle or anyone else, except if they prove to be trustworthy. To Lisa, however, it simply meant that she had to go with Danielle's group.

I hope she and others have learned what one would think they would have learned in the real world: Don't trust anyone and every utterance they make. Take what they say and analyse it mentally, establish a motive, if any, and then you know whether to trust them. What if you had a problem within your group and someone exploited that trying to split your group? That is the way to view so many things, even in real life. You don't break away to the other side immediately. Caution is all Lisa had to apply, not a sudden belief in Danielle or anyone else.

That said, I lost interest in having her win. But now that she's seen the light and she's all that's left, I do hope that she has luck in her favour and does justice as she believes in it.

Lurknomore

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok I hope this wasn't covered somewhere in this long thread as I read the beginning, the end, and a few in the middle lol.

But this is my problem with Lisa...WHO IS SHE? The HG's have been in there almost 3 months and we have NO clue who she is, what her personality is like, what she thinks, believes, likes to do etc. Now folks may say Jason is boring and much as I love the boy I do think he is trying to be too mellow, but we at least have seen some of who he is. (especially in his DR's). Lisa...well aside from knowing how she falls in like/love what do we know about her?

I'm sorry but I am having a hard time rooting for someone who has given us NOTHING and wants half a mil in return. I felt her knew her Mom better from a couple hours in chat than I did Lisa after months of watching her.

In some ways she reminds me of this years Monya...she sits...the days go by. We don't even get the occassional IT"S AWWWWNNNNNN. I feel we got nothing. Nice? Not nice? Caring? Who knows. What do we know? Done making point.

Gonna edit in a PS:

Far as I can see we have had 2 big insights into her. 1) her incredibly meanspirited goodbye to Gerry and 2)her really nice seeming gesture for the phone calls. Far as I see they balance out each other and I'm back to having NO clue who she is.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa said in the Diary Room that she lost the competition on purpose because she was comfortable with the nominations.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Her treatment of Gerry was very curious to me. If I had the chance to speak to Lisa, I would ask her about that immediately. Her act of refusing the money was far more defining of her personality. That was genuine. Maybe something about Gerry rubbed her wrong in a way that even we don't know about. She is a bit of a mystery, and her romance with Eric took up a lot of her early time in the house. I do know that she has garnered enough respect from the other players to make her a legitimate threat to win this game.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Losing on purpose because she liked the nominations makes no sense whatsoever --because if she was comfortable with them, the best way to keep them as they were was to win. Anything else left it open to change.

Betty

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just wanted to add my hat to the ring of those who think Lisa was almost as ignorant as Marc on how to play the game. I believe her only thoughts were for her loyalty to her new "family" of HGs who will indeed be but a memory in a couple weeks. Of course she wouldn't have won the $15K because of the phone numbers. I don't think winning the jury with this decision ever entered her mind. In the end it may have earned her some soft hearted jury points, however it may have lost her some points because that will stand out in some jury's minds that she isn't playing the game to her advantage.

What555456

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood

Why do you think her action in the DR was genuine, but her action towards Gerry was only "curious."

Could they not have both been genuine? or could her action towards Gerry have been genuine, but her action in the DR not been genuine? Or neither was genuine?

Both came from the same person. Why do you put more stock in one than in the other?

(Not trying to start a fight, Wood, just wondering what your reasoning is here).

Bigbrotherbelle

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry, but they only had 2 weeks left in the house.

She just wanted to look good for the final vote.

Draheid

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Let's not forget the little tete-a-tete (or should that be tete-a-bout?) Lisa had with her arachnid friend which effectively took her out of the game for several days. I wonder how much different things might have been had she had those 'missed' days to participate in the game more?

Or did those days bring a lot of sympathy from the others that might have given her a little more 'favor' in the house?

There have been a lot of 'unusual' occurences this year so I suppose we could speculate on 'What Ifs' for ever (or at least another 10 days! :) ).


JMO - FWIW

Jaysgal

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"But this is my problem with Lisa...WHO IS SHE? The HG's have been in there almost 3 months and we have NO clue who she is, what her personality is like, what she thinks, believes, likes to do etc. Now folks may say Jason is boring and much as I love the boy I do think he is trying to be too mellow, but we at least have seen some of who he is. (especially in his DR's). Lisa...well aside from knowing how she falls in like/love what do we know about her?"

Actually, I concede that she's very difficult to read and hardly tells much about herself. However, after this long time of getting to observe her, I think that I have actually caught up with her. I figured out her true nature. You have to be carefully listening to Lisa with everything she utters and piece everything together.

My conclusion was the following about Lisa's nature:

1) She operates by two principles: loyalty and justice. Loyalty takes precedence. Justice however is a necessary response to her if loyalty is disturbed by any persons or forces.

2) She lives her life like a metaphor. She admitted once of how she likened every persons in the house to people that she knew in real life. From her statement and examples of who fit with what character, it seems to me that she tended to encounter negative people and things in her life. It seems like she was overtaken by fear at some point in her life.

3) She revealed to us her medical condition and how it affected her.

4) She revealed to us her pose as Dorothy being her claim to fame.

5) She has revealed to us her relationship history. And it does not at all sound hard to believe. I think that she has self-content issues. I don't think that she feels empowered and whole with her relationship with men especially. It sounds consistent with her statement to Roddy about how she was hardly observed by people until she made changes in her physical appearance. It would also seem to make sense with her relationship with Eric. She was apprehensive about a man, according to her statement. Yet, it seemed so easy for her to accept Eric, despite the fact that accepting him meant endorsing his behaviour of having no regards about his gf in real life (no matter how short they had been together). Lisa's emotional response to Eric satisfying her desire and happiness by simply pausing to state "hi" revealed a lot about Lisa. Lisa simply wants someone who loves and cherishes her, does the simplistic things. Lisa believes in words and actions more than she does in material things. She wants to know that someone cares about her and is noticing her.

6) No matter how she tries to make it sound, she's not a ruthless person. She's touched but cannot support one who has done injustice.

7) Lisa's many statements too showed a woman that tends to listen than she does talk. It would seem to me that her experience in life made her choose this path, where parents always came to her with their problems and drew her into their issues but she couldn't say "no". So, she resorted to listening. That may also be coupled with her experience as a bar tender, as stated by someone else.

Okay, that's just how much I learned about Lisa. She's hard to read, but what it takes the most is patience with her to finally observe her nature. It would seem that she has none, but she does have it (i.e., a personality and nature) after careful observations.

P.S.: I do agree that she's a lot like Monica from BB2. I happened to like Monica, though. LOL!

Patman

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If these people were so into Big Brother last year, wouldn't they remember that BB did the same (but with peanut butter jars) to the last 4 remaining houseguests? Jason should have known that only one would get the luxury, not all that said yes to Julie to the offer.

Woodpecke®

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
She retracted her most vicious of statements regarding Gerry. I never got to see her face clearly when she was talking about Gerry, and her actions toward other houseguests have never been as mean or nasty as they were with Gerry. Her treatment of Gerry was inconsistent with her behavior in the house the rest of the time. That is why I find it curious. That being said, I think what she said to Gerry sucked the Big One. I was horrified. I saw her face last night. She meant what she said about why she chose to turn down the cash. Or, she is the best liar in this game and rivals Roddy for attempted manipulation. I bought her personality last night. I'll wait until after the game is over for her to discuss her opinion of Gerry. Gerry is her one black mark in my mind.

Lurknomore

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
one...there was no spider bite we have determined that. However boils or no boils I think that is immaterial as it occured during her romance phase. And during that part of the game Lisa's ONLY role in the house was girlfriend. She was not playing the game, thinking about playing the game, talking about playing the game etc. At least Eric would have strategy sessons with Roddy between romantic times. Lisa simply was doing the relationship thing. The "spider bite" hehe had no effect at all, though I did feel bad for her going through it so publicly, and what a lousy place to feel so sick in.

Seamonkey

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa not taking the $15k.. that should signal to Dani and Jason that she should go now. Even though Dani and Jason are equally "guilty" or smart, depending on your view, Amy, by the luck of the numbers, actually GOT money, and has other baggage that would hurt her with the jury.

Yes, they want to be final two but they have to consider that the third of the final three could win HOH and Lisa would be much harder for either of them to beat in the final vote. Of course on the other hand I think they fear Amy more for the last HOH than they fear Lisa.

'tis a dilemma.

(personally I thought the whole thing was telling.. Dani caved in on the first offer and didn't "own" it, but blamed Amy. Amy held out awhile and was conflicted, Jason held out longer.
And Lisa is either totally altruistic and idealistic (I mean with only 12 days left, ANY of them could wait for a phone call) or she really feared repercussions, if she was to choose for herself, that Dani wouldn't keep her on, or she is clueless about these people she's been living with, or she's, um, just clueless, period)