Danielle just guaranteed herself no more than second place
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: ARCHIVE THREE: Danielle just guaranteed herself no more than second place
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Archive through September 12, 2002 25   09/12 11:25pm

C1mag

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 10:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggie I total agree. I think it was very rough on her because I always fealt that she loved Marcellus but at a certain point knew he couldn't be fully trusted. She did this for Jasons benefit which tells me she really is pulling for her and him to get to the finals. It is so damn admirable on her part. She has stuck with her one and only alliance all along. It's a shame knowing that they will deny her of money she really has earned based on issues that are so stupid.

If it is her and him in the finals he really needs to thank her cause not only did she watch her own back in this game she had his back as well and lets face it when he didn't nominate Roddy that one time he left her just a bit vulnerable. Something she would have never done to Jason.

I wish others could get passed her devil talk. She has played this game so well. The Marcellus move on her part was the best move anyone has ever done in reality game show history. I'm still clapping my hands at how well she pulled it off. She actually had me totally fooled. I thought for sure she was going with Marcellus for a final two. This woman is playing it hard. I love that!

Jaysgal

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 10:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, Eden, I refuse to concede to Danielle outsmarting people. She didn't. It was simply people choosing to allow emotion overcome them. And no, it was hardly anything to do with Danielle. It was fighting amongst themselves that led to their downfalls. They fought themselves when they should have been after their actual enemies.

But supposing I conceded to your argument: Well, the houseguests have every justification not to give the money to her. Let's accept that she played it smart. Almost all of her smartness was betrayal, lies, gossipping. So, I assume the evicted houseguests can apply the same logic: Betray her too, speak badly of her to other houseguests and convince them that she does not merit it. By such reasoning, there's no reason she should get it. Serving as jurors is still part of the game.

On the other hand, we can say: Why shouldn't the other party get the money? For, the very fact that the second person is standing there means that that second person played a good game too. What is "best" is simply subjective. "Best" to some people excludes gossipping, lying, backstabbing, etc. If everyone played just that game, then no one would be a "best" player, as some seem to perceive Danielle.

Planochick

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 10:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Here's how the voting might go depending on who's responsible for the last evictions:

1,Picture

Meggieprice

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 10:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
But what now? My worry for Dani, (and C1 you have perfectly summarized my feelings about her- she has made me wince on more then one occasion when she took the devil thing too far or pushed her points a bit too hard - but man, what a game she has played!) is that she will aim at evicting Lisa, when I think Lisa is more likely to take her to the finaly 2 than Amy is.

Janekat0629

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I actually thinks she has a good chance of beating Amy. I can't stand Danielle and kind of like Amy but would think twice about voting for Amy. She has been a "bubblehead" and hasn't played the game at all!!! She's clueless.

C1mag

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Meggie I'm beginning to think that Jason will evict Amy because of his vow to have Dani, him, and Lisa in the final 3. So I think Amy is gonnna go after all. Dani will indeed make the finals either way. Lisa would pick Dani because she thinks she can beat her cause she knows that Dani feels vulnerable about her comments in the dr. Besides do ya really want to hand Jay the money? Jason will also take dan to the finals because of his promise to her. It looks like she is going to the finals. Now who will she be sitting next too and can she realistically beat them? It will be up too that Jury and how they want to cast their votes. Like I keep saying... Vote based on being a sore loser or vote based on who played the game the best. She loses based on stupid fluff that equates to a sore loser getting even but she wins the top prize if they look past petty things and admit she controled this game all the way.

Gouraphik

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree, Jaysgal. I don't really care about Danielle per se...but the argument that the jury "should" or even more ridiculously, "must" vote for the person who played the "best" game in the end is flawed to the nth degree. I've already made my case in the "I'm so Repulsed by the HG's Trashing the Evicted" thread (../10972/1051701.html"../../clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

C1mag

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gour we've been over this before... No one is saying they "should" vote for the best player it would just be nice to see them challenge themselves to look at the game and not the person for a change. Not many are doubting that in the end Dani will probably lose the big money but you'd be up against a wall trying to suggest she didn't play this game out the best. Too many arguments in favor of her actual game play. It's a shame some wont at least think about just picking the best player. Instead the alternative is to snivel about losing so get even and dock the better player.

Cameltoes

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The thing is that some of their opinions in regards to what playing well means will differ. Josh might be the type of guy who thinks "all is fair" and vote for Danielle but based on Roddy's parting words, he's still strong in his belief that he played ethically and it cost him. Seems he sees Lisa as the most ethical remaining player (even though he admits luck was a factor). If most of the evictees think Danielle played well but without "integrity", they won't vote for her to win.

Gouraphik

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
All I'm saying, C1mag, is that your wish that people "challenge" themselves is simply that...a wish. Would it be a shame if they didn't vote for the "best" player? Perhaps. But the point is, they can. Nothing can change this fact. In the end, it's up to them...not as some moral or metaphysical challenge, but as a tactical choice. The jury has the power, and can do with it as they will.

It's all about power. That's the nature of the game. The concept of good sportsmanship, or the acknowledgement of a particular HG's brilliance as a gameplayer, are akin to having a sprig of parsley on your dinner plate. It may be nice, and it may look good, but it's not crucial or necessary in the end.

Wendo

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Jaysgal said, "Well, Eden, I refuse to concede to Danielle outsmarting people. She didn't. It was simply people choosing to allow emotion overcome them. And no, it was hardly anything to do with Danielle. It was fighting amongst themselves that led to their downfalls. They fought themselves when they should have been after their actual enemies."

But this WAS Dani's strategy, to let the others duke it out amongst themselves. She even said this to Lisa a couple of weeks back.

As far as the whole LUCK thing...hogwash. Many of the things that have happened for Ja and Dani were much more than luck. They've controlled this game in many, many ways. To say that Ja and Dani are in the final four due to luck is to discount the work they've done.

I read Roddy's parting words and his thoughts on luck. He just can't accept that the people in there played better than him. So, he attributes it to luck.

Lizardsamongus

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If Danielle were a man then she might get away with her manipulating. But as a woman she is viewed as a b$%&*. Eric and Gerry were adamant in chat that they would not vote for her. Just think how Roddy and Marcellas feel. I think she might pull a Richard Hatch and purposely lose the final competition, hoping Amy will win and take her. But I see Amy taking Jason instead if she wins. Lisa is out next and that is another betrayal.

Cameltoes

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with you Wendo. I only brought up luck in regards to Roddy's opinion of Lisa's gameplay. I can see how he would view Lisa's position as being partly due to luck (she was the beneficiary of Dani and Jason's scheming).

Cc1976

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"It's a shame some wont at least think about just picking the best player. Instead the alternative is to snivel about losing so get even and dock the better player."

But part of being a great player is recognizing that you can't have the evicted house guests so angry with you that they don't want you to get the money. That's part of the game. And that's where Danielle failed miserably.

Annitar

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I see the point you are trying to make Cc1976 but... I just think the only people the evicted HGs should be angry with is themselves. IMHO, they can't fault anyone else really. I just think in this game you gotta take responsibility for your own actions. If someone outplayed you, then it's your own fault for not seeing how you were being played.

I think great game play should win out in the end. However it will be pettiness and hurt egos that will determine the winner this year. Roddy & Marce esp are not going to get over the fact that they were outplayed. They are going to whine and moan louder than any of the other evicted HGs and they have no right to really. It's their own faults they got the boot... they should have both kept their egos in check and they'd be in that house right now.

Spear

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Playing for jury votes is also part of the game. Jason understands this and Roddy understood it. Apparently, Danielle and Lisa don't. (Neither does Amy but she doesn't seem to have a strategy.) The jury is perfectly justified in considering all the trashing that the HGs have done in deciding who was the better player. If you're trashing someone to turn other HGs against that person, you can apologize in your DR entries later and say you didn't mean it. Better yet, apologize in the DR in advance and explain what you're trying to do. However, if you really don't like someone, just keep your mouth shut until the votes are cast. If you want, go ahead and trash them when you have the $500K. What good is it to trash someone while you're alone in the DR?

I'm not saying this should be the only criteria the jury should use, just that it's not something they should ignore.

Meggieprice

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You nailed it with that one Annitar- that's what it comes down to-the caliber of HG this year. They are too much about retribution and ego to base their votes on great game play. And I, for one, think it's too darn bad.

Mrdisguise

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 07:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If I was on the jury, I would not let Amy win $500 000. Amy is an alcoholic and emotionally unstable. She would waste the money on booze and con artists.

Danielle would use the money on her family.
Jason would probably invest it wisely.
Lisa would travel and have fun with the money.

Bigger

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 07:50 am EditMoveDeleteIP
So what. Will SAID he was going to piss his money away and he still won.

Itsallgood

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 08:36 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Mrdisguise...how do you know Amy is an alcoholic???? Puleeeeeeeeez!!! I just beg to differ with you on that...an alcoholic could not be in a house for that long without having withdrawls!!!

Dani needs Amy to be in the final 2 with her to maybe assure her Amy's vote because if Amy gets out and sees how Dani has bashed her then there goes Amy's vote for Dani.

And as far as what they do with the money....they can do whatever they want...piss it off...give it to charity...whatever!

JMHO

Bohawkins

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 08:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Seems to me that Danielle needs to be more concerned about Marcellas coming back and shooting her on live tv (she can be thankful there will be security metal detectors to protect her from that) than she does about how anyone is going to vote. That betrayal cut him to the core. If he jumped up and choked her I would not be at all surprised.

Lyn

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 04:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mrdisguise, if Amy does have an untreated thyroid problem (which seems very likely), it would take very little alcohol to make her seem drunk.

Spunky

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 04:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yep (referring to title thread)

With either Lisa or Jason she'll take 2nd place.

Adrian

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 04:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If Jason wins it all. IMHO, it does not matter what Danielle's position (2nd or 3rd), she will also come out the winner. Go figure.

Victoriafla

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 04:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it's terrible to say Amy is an alcoholic. How do you know she is? I agree with the poster (itsallgood)! Good post!

Wendydarling

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Now that she's "delegated" the choice to Jason, he's got every incentive to keep Lisa...it keeps him in good stead with the evicted who universally like Lisa, and it gives Danielle one more angelic competitor that she can't win against.

Even if Jason keeps Amy, the evicted may be so fed up with Danielle's DR comments, in the Final 2, Amy may win.

Just like anything can change on voting day, I suspect that if the evicted all get together and listen to arguments by Roddy or Marcellus...who can sway people...there might be an interesting and unexpected outcome.

But I don't expect ANYone to be arguing that the final prize should go to Danielle. Not going to happen.

Jaysgal

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Actually, I have to disagree with the popular opinion. I do not believe that Danielle's best shot, provided she makes it to the end, is a final two with Amy. I disagree.

Rather, I think that her best shot is against Jason. Jason has succeeded in playing the role of the "executioner" (as he terms it). Jason has been perceived as a religious person of good moral standing, so people trusted him. People most likely felt betrayed by Jason and his job as an agent of the ruthless woman.

Danielle actually has a best shot with Jason, and it seems that that is her goal to create a moral dilemma for Jason (knowing that people would hold this against him). Yes, Danielle was the mastermind, but it was Jason who portrayed himself as the angel and had people's trust. Houseguests may be saying that under no circumstance will they vote for Danielle, but I'm afraid that if it were between the two, it would be a close vote. Jason may end up winning, but it would be a close vote if it were between the two.

Amy vs. Danielle is an easy vote. People will forgive Amy about her conducts. Some of them may even be thinking that they can sue her. LOL! But in their view, Danielle's behaviour would be beyond forgiveable between the two. And about the Operation Revolving Door: No one, except Roddy and Chiara can be resentful about Amy's return and win. Why? Because they had every opportunity to evict her, but instead they used it against those who only had one chance.

Now, if it's Lisa/Jason, Lisa is definitely taking the money home.