Archive through August 30, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Ethics of the Game:
Archive through August 30, 2002
Bbholden | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:45 pm     I'd like to discuss our part in this game. Just a few minutes ago I heard Marcellas tell Danielle that Amy is being nominated in the hopes she will be gone. His words were that he never intended to take Amy to the end, nor help her get to the end. She was simply there for his own pleasure (amusement). I got a cold chill. Before I continue, I plan on cancelling my LFs, not because I am such a good person, nor that I have seen the light. I simply have now lost interest that my favorite houseguest will be gone, and I don't wish to see her suffer anymore. That is a private and personal choice. However, I will continue to read this forum, and I have my tickets should there be another BB4. Having said that, I feel like I am watching the world fall into an era of decadence, depravity, and chaos. Anarchy. This is of course an exaggeration, but that is the feeling. Like I am witness to the fall of mankind. Wow, am I dramatic or what? The questions in my mind are: 1. Do you too feel like we are witnessing something that is ugly and we just do not see it yet? 2. Do you feel society as a whole has degenerated in regard to being civilized? 3. Are we responsible for this? Are we like lambs to the slaughter? Or, are we the force that is demanding the destruction of our society? 4. ROFL... Should we begin building the bomb shelters? 5. Does it sometimes scare you? To those who will claim I am indeed overly dramatic, going over the edge, have let a little silly game get to me.... bah and humbug. I'm simply trying to have an intellectual discussion about how this game fits into society. Is it a reflection of society. Is this what we have become? If we don't ask ourselves these questions, we just might not ever have the chance. |
Thefan | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:56 pm     Wow, did anyone else hear this? Is Marc serious? |
Wendo | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:57 pm     Bbholden, I empathize with your comments. And, I understand your points of view and what you're saying. I guess I just look at this way. It's a tv game show. A summer tv game show. It's just not that important in the grand scheme of life. Sure, some of these people may be mad at each other when it's all over. But eventually, they'll get over it. I just don't the the Big Brother Summer TV Show has far and reaching implications for society. I just don't see it as a reflection of society because in life, we're all not competing for half a million dollars. There are added triggers in BB that do not exist in society. However, you're thoughts are interesting. |
Bbholden | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:59 pm     Thefan, I want to make sure I am clear on this, Marcellas did not use the words Pleasure or Amusement, that was my "exaggeration" of his statement. He simply said to Dani that he had never intended to take Amy to the end, nor had he planned on helping her get herself to the end. That he simply enjoyed her company and friendship. I was putting a spin on it. In order to make a point that although put much nicer by Marcellas, are we headed, as a society, in the direction where Marcellas could have said it the way I stated it... as only for his amusement, and how do we feel about that. |
Bbrules4ever | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:01 pm     marci is a <>!!!! poor amy she will be DEVASTATED |
Bmh | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:02 pm     bbholden dont give up yet..nominations haven't took place yet..lets just wait in see just like Marcellas told Dani you will be pleasantly surprised..hopefully Roddy will go up |
Solidsnake | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:02 pm     i guess you have to live your life for yourself and no one else.. so whatever happens you should not let it phase you.. n i agree wit wendo.. its a game show.. leave the moral n ethics at home.. win some dough yo |
Bbholden | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:03 pm     Wendo, yes, at this point in time, it is just a summer game. An amusement. But, stop and consider what it is that is amusing, or entertaining about it. What are we watching? We are watching the verbal, and mental abuse of 12 people. They are abused by the producers, abused by the cameramen/women (as in putting on the internet nude shots of the guests) and they are encouraged, even demanded to abuse each other. They have gone beyond a game IMO. They have abused entire families. They have abused society. I'm just saying... or rather asking... do you feel that we as a society are blindly heading down a very dangerous path for us as a species? |
Nemesis | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:06 pm     Those are questions I remember asking myself after 9/11. Wow, you are serious about this game. I think maybe for your own good you do cancel the live feeds, and watch some UPN. I say this with all sencerity. Last year, I got way to caught up in this show..good luck |
Ryn | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:07 pm     I refuse to get so wrapped up in this kind of show that I would take the actions of the HGs as a reflection of the rest of society. Put ANY of us in a house with 11 strangers where we weekly kick someone out and see how we would behave after 50 days. its a game They all signed up for it - I personally recorded Amy telling marcel during week one that she would be happy to last 4 weeks - then go home. Well - its 8 - if he nominates her and she goes she will probably be better for it - but either way its still just a game. |
Adamblast | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:08 pm     All you're seeing is the normal course of events on this particular reality show: 1) BB is structured to make friends turn on one another, to make all alliances temporary. 2)The human mind will do almost any amount of rationalization to justify itself. As for how any specific events on BB relate to society as a whole, I think the most you can say is that the Reality-TV craze has not, on the whole, played into our better natures. |
Mrose4243 | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:08 pm     I don't necessarily think that this game is a reflection of society. It is a reflection of what happens to ordinary people when they are put into extraordinary circumstances. I get the feeling that when you're in the BB house, the rest of the world is surreal, and your 'world' becomes distorted due to the confinement and the wish for the money... I think it makes people act in a way that they would not in the real world. I am also very disappointed and disillusioned to hear that Marc would put Amy up. If this happens, I will lose respect for Marc....but I still believe that there is good in the world outside of this game... just look at the heros of the 9/11 attacks. Don't give up hope!! Its only a game! |
Ryn | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:09 pm     as for the verbal/mental stuff, I have always said - I prefer the strategy, not all the trashing and sex talk. So I just let that stuff go in and out of my ear |
Solidsnake | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:11 pm     u know u keep the sex talk man.. dont deny.. lol |
Csnog | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:18 pm     BB and Arnie need to take a page from the book of The Mole. Fine the HG's for certain actions. When Marcie was talking about Gerry dying and how it should happen, they have let it go to far. He should have been called into the DR to see a Psychiatrist. MMMmmmmm Maybe they need the handlers and producers of the show to visit one also. Any HG that goes over the line, that HG looses 1/2 of their pay that week. |
Bbwhiners | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:20 pm     I do think it is a fair representation of American society. BB3 is post-modernism at its best. Folks compartmentalize their lives - time to be moral, time to make money, time to be the best soccer mom on the block, time to buy the SUV - the morals and ethics that guide them in one area do not necessarily carry over to another. Dani and Marc are good illustrations of that phenomenon. |
Bluie | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:23 pm     No, I don't think society is degenerating. Just finally being more honest about it's depravity, that it's always had. People have been backstabbing and lying and dishonest since the beginning of time. The TV that I grew up with was a fairytale world that doesn't exist anywhere. I think reality TV will help us as a society more than hinder us. We can't really change until we see "us" as we really are. If Marc nominates Amy I will be very disappointed in him. |
Onlyhuman | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:24 pm     Exactly BBwhiners...situational ethics. In this situation it's okay to lie and cheat because you would never do that "in real life". Unless, of course, there was money or pride at stake... |
Woodpecke® | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:30 pm     She won't be nominated. That is my prediction. When he actually goes to get the keys, he won't do it. He could nominate Roddy and Lisa and let veto get Amy out. |
Bbholden | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:36 pm     I'm not going to try to explain to those that insist I am too involved in the game...lol Either you do not understand that I wanted to have an intellectual discussion, or else you do understand but want to just say I'm overboard..lol But to those that do understand that I only want to have a discussion among my peers... let me continue. Yes, it is all a game, it is not to be taken seriously. However, there are people who took the Beatles songs seriously and look what they did.. they are part of society. There are people that take Rob Zombie, Pantera and other Thrash and Heavy Metal lyrics to heart.. and they go out into society and they do damage. No, I'm not about to freak out, but doesn't it scare you that there are people watching this and not realizing it is just a game. Children that are watching and they might not have an adult to make sure they know this is extreme behavior, or that it is all just a game? I know, I am exaggerating... but that is the point. Where do we stop? Snuff films? Are we going to soon see game shows where people are actually hurt, maimed, or killed, by the things they have to do to win the money? I'm saying, I'm asking, where does it stop? Who is responsible.. are we? Is it our duty to raise up and demand that some of the things like personal attacks, verbal abuse of family, mental abuse, must have limits? Are there limits? Do you see where I am going with this? If not.. ok... bad timing on my part... if you do... does it make you think twice about passively sitting by and watching people like Gerry's lives perhaps destroyed, or Amy's or Lisa's or that there are going to be children, like Dani's, that might just be smiling and laughing at their mother's disregard for other humans? |
Twiggyish | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:45 pm     I do understand your point BB. But, these people are there to win money. One could almost say, they sacrificed their privacy for greed. |
Stingerman | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:50 pm     Gee lets see, Marcellus will sell Amy out and has no problem with it. He asks Danni what she is doing and she says she wanted it to be him and her and Jason, but now Jason is no. 3. Gee maybe Jason will be happy at finding this out, after Danni told him she could care less about Marcellus. In my books Both Marcellus and Danni are scum for screwing there supposed friends over. I guess we will have to wait and see if either of them have the common sense and decency to change there ways but right now it's not looking too good. |
Onlyhuman | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:50 pm     I think it says a lot about us as a society that games like Survivor and Big Brother exist. They are games that demand that people, on a regular basis, choose another person from the group to eliminate. Yes, they are not dying, but the metaphor is there. Many times people remind others that this is a "game". But why do we choose to make a game out of this? Why do we enjoy watching people strategize and lie and turn on friends? What need does this fill in our lives? I am at a loss as to those answers for society, so I can only ask myself those questions. I started watching BB1 mainly because I was fascinated by the human interaction. As a psychologist, it is not often that you get to observe human behavior in its rawest form. It was fascinating to me! I watched BB2, and was addicted, but mostly because I could still observe the humanness in the individuals involved. Yes, they were playing a game, but they also interacted on a level that often had nothing to do with the game aspect. This year, I have searched long and hard for the human component. The bond between Amy & Marcellus was one of those glimmers of hope. When Marcellus turned on Amy during the first nomination, I was shocked at how easy it was for a person to turn on someone they supposedly care about for a game. And since Amy's been back I've grown more disgusted by the lack of compassion. If Marcellus nominates Amy, I do not want to see her reaction. The shock and betrayal will be overwhelming, I think. For her and for me. |
Woodpecke® | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:52 pm     No. What matters in this house will not have any lasting effect on life or the people involved. This is simply a game where 12 people decided to put their personalities on the line for the rare chance to win half a million dollars. The verbal blasting they take is part of this board; the nasty backstabbing in the house was part of this game in the first 2 editions of BB. It is not my concern what happens after this game is over, mainly because the people in their lives already know them and their quirky traits. To even suggest that we should feel guilty about the possible damage they may incur from being put on parade for 80 days is silly and I dismiss it completely. I think you are looking for an intellectual discussion where one does not exist. Feel free to continue. |
Karuuna | Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:52 pm     It seems to me that one of the problems we have evaluating the "ethics" of this game, is that we have different assumptions about what the rules are. If you're playing chess, and you have an opportunity to take one of your opponent's pieces, you don't hesitate. It's expected that you will do whatever you can within the established rules of chess to undermine the ability of your opponent to win. There's no guilt about that, no ethical dilemma. But in BB, many of the rules are assumed and not stated. To a certain extent, that means each player decides what the rules will be for themselves. And they often make assumptions about what the rules are for the others. That makes things a lot more confusing for everyone. Within the BB unstated rules, it okay to lie and manipulate people? Is it okay to use their human weaknesses to undermine their ability to win? Is it okay to make false promises, to pretend meaningful friendship if you really don't mean it? Each HG seems to have drawn their own conclusions about these and other "rules". BB gets even more complicated because unlike chess, there are other issues involved. If you lose a chess game, at most it may hurt your pride a little. But in BB, you must consider the mental well-being of the players, the human need to be connected, the very real feelings of friendship and betrayal. And the HGs confuse it themselves, unable to draw a clear distinction between the game and real relationships. They talk about who will continue their friendships outside the game. They talk not only about alliances in the game, but being buddies in the house. They talk about having romantic relationships that sometimes rule their game-playing, sometimes not, and may or may not continue when the game is over. It's not situational ethics if you feel like you are playing within acceptable parameters of the game. It is situational ethics if you know that your intent is to use someone's REAL feelings of friendship in order to further your own position. The same confusion exists in how various posters view the thing. Some see it as a game, and anything goes in the pursuit of the win. For them, the most important factor to evaluate in players is how close they get to the money. Some see it as more than just a game, where real people suffer real hurts by what happens there; and therefore a player's character also matters. And some see it as some mixture of both - playing the game within guidelines that don't compromise your ethics. It makes for an interesting mix, and some volatile posting from all sides, doesn't it? |
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