Is it possible for a woman to ever win at this game?
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archives One:
Is it possible for a woman to ever win at this game?
Eden | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:30 pm     The fact that Danielle's femininity is questioned (I wasn't aware it had been) is the problem. Why? Because she has been powerful? Because she IS a contender? I know you were joking, I just find it kinda sad that even a woman makes a joke about Danielle having testosterone, as if that is a prerequiste to being successful. |
Bkmac | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:42 pm     Okay first- all women have testosterone, again, above was a joke. Does Dani have more than "usual"? Who knows, who cares. In the case of this thread testosterone = an ability to detach from emotional side. I'm using the word figurativly, as a metaphor for that quality that seems to most often seperate men from women in these games. Is a detachment from emotion a prequisite to success? Not in life- but in the BB house I say yes. Look at the prior #1 winners. Will and Eddie, was either known for their emotional nature? Heck no, they were able to keep The Game seperate fom whatever they might have been feeling. |
Kathyb | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 09:52 pm     I think both women and men judge women much more harshly. What BB woman has even come close to winning? Nicole, and I'm sure everyone remembers the bashing she took here last year. People wanted her marriage ruined and her life destroyed, they hated her so much. A woman with any hope of winning should remember not to lie, be attractive but act unaware of it, thin, good-humored, intelligent, always tell the truth, be kind and loyal to everyone, don't be aggressive in playing the game, be selfless and most of all - don't lie. Remember Jamie? Another despised hg. She looked in the mirror too much and longed for a career in show business. I would venture to say she was the most hated BB1 hg. Can anyone think of a single woman hg in all BB's that people were pulling for to win? Sheryl maybe, but she was only there for a short time. |
Moedog | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 10:04 pm     "I think both women and men judge women much more harshly." I SO agree with that statement, Kathyb! If any of the women has a chance to make it to the end and actually win the whole shebang, my money's on Lisa. I think there would be quite a few votes for her from the jury. Dani really screwed up today and took herself out of the top spot IMO. |
Kitt | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 10:52 pm     Yes. I think a woman will win THIS BB. A woman or Jason, anyway. And judging by the way they're playing the game, that would be the most "fair" (there's that word again) resolution to this game. |
Jhezzie | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 11:07 pm     If they would cast women who would remember that this isn't "Blind Date", they could have a shot. I think Dani, however is playing a great game, (or was until a few hours ago, lol). I have to laugh at the rats off of the possibly sinking ship though. She makes one mistake and it's "I don't like her anymore." "She's no better than so and so." Waaaa. Get a grip. She's the same as she was yesterday and day one. |
Moedog | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 12:03 am     No, a woman can not win this game. They're idiots! Roddy stays, Chiara goes. From LFPs: Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 11:44 pm Lisa repeats the whole rigamarole again. Reiterating that Amy wants Chiara out. Amy enters—ends convo with Dani and Lisa. Lisa leaves... Amy looks at Dani and says, “I feel like I’m in the principal’s office” Dani tells Amy repeatedly, “I can’t deal with .....(something to do with Roddy)... If I leave this house because of him...” Amy assuring that if Chiara goes and Roddy stays, Dani WILL NOT leave the house because of him. Dani replies, “He knows it’s awn..” ((Lisa and Amy have both been reassuring Dani that she is not in danger if Chiara goes before Roddy. )) Amy: I’ve been out there and I’m not afraid to go back.... Dani: But I’m here for my family not myself... Amy: want YOU to win this......You are not going anywhere... Dani—Okay, I give you my word, Chiara is out... ---------------- I'm now rootin' for Jason and Gerry to place 1st and 2nd. I give up on these women. |
Maris | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 12:53 am     These women are all dumb as posts. Now amy is outside spilling to Roddy. Dani will see this and will use this as a means to break her word. She will say amy has an alliance. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:00 am     As I am watching this, it seems to me that a woman cannot win this game NOT because of the double standard, but because of the inherent, often vindictive, competition among the women themselves. Take a look at how things have gone down since Amy came back in. Outside of Marellus, is it the men doing all talking, gossiping, attacking? No, it is the women. The men are just sitting back and watching it all happen, ready to take advantage of the women's attacks on each other. With the exception of Danielle who wants Roddy out, who are these women going after? Each other. And why? Amy is going after Chiara because she hurt her feelings and she wants Roddy (probably to get back at Chiara). Lisa is going after Chiara because she hurt her feelings. Chiara is giving up because she feels alone and now has lost her man. The men aren't getting rid of the women, the women are doing it to themselves because of personal and emotional reasons, not strategic reasons. Only Danielle seems to be able to keep her wits about her and focus on the strategy. We men see this all the time in the "real world." Why do women do this? |
Crazydog | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:10 am     I agree What555, the women in this year's version of the game seem to be taking each other out. I do not think the game is inherently sexist, as was implied by some of the earlier posts. I think that women can do well in this game - look at Nicole and Monica. If Monica had won that last HoH she would certainly have been the winner. But Nicole won it and took her out. Dani was doing a great job of playing this game until her recent error. But there's still a chance that she can salvage things. In my opinion, she and Lisa still have a good shot. There seems to be dissatisfaction at the casting of the women, that the women they have cast have no chance. Well, I would counter by saying that while that is true for some like Amy (too emotional), Chiara (too unlikeable) and Tonya (too.... uh, cognitively challenged), the same can be said for Gerry (too different), Josh (too unlikeable) and Marcellus (too emotional). It's not a sexist thing, it's how you play the game. Some of these people, whether male or female, are just better at it than the others. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:47 am     What amazes me too, Crazydog, is that so many women on this Board make their decisions of who is doing well in the game and who is not based on the same emoionalism. If someone hurts someone else's feelings, they should be put out. If someone soothes someone's feelings, they should stay. None of this makes sense to me when the goal of this game is very simple -- be the last one standing and win $500,000. It has nothing to do with bonding, friendships, relationships, feelings or anything else --except as these are used to further one's chances to reach the goal of winning. |
Calamity | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:47 am     I admit I haven't been following this year's show that closely but even so, I recall plenty of incidents of the male contestants going after each other. Each one, but particularly Josh and Marc, have been downright cruel and vicious in their verbal assaults against Gerry; Marc was targeted immediately by Jo/R/E; Eric sold out Josh to Gerry; Roddy pretended to be Josh's buddy but actually did all he could to exploit Josh's insecurities; Roddy's both patronized and demonzied Jason. I'm sure there's many other examples. Both the men and the women have engaged in this behavior but lots of posters seem to be concentrating on the flare-ups between the women. It's more a matter of perception than anything else. "Amy vs. Chiara- ooh, that's a catfight - what'd you expect from *women*?" And yet the differences between the men are chalked up to personalities and not some inherent gender defect. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:59 am     Calamity You are right, of course, the men will go after the men. But for very different reasons and in very different ways. The men tend to go after the men either for strategy or just because they do not like them. But the women go after the women as some sort of revenge thing -- and usually it is because of an emotional hurt. People have said some very nasty things about Gerry. But he just keeps on plugging along. Roddy shifts from person to person as it helps his strategy -- and is attacked by the women on this Board for doing so and not caring about people's feelings. Jason hears it all, but does not get overcome with emotion about what he hears others say about others. But the women, again with the exception of Danielle, all feel wounded and hurt and act on this. It just seems to me they have no perspective about what this game is all about. They have only a perspective with focuses on their emotions and hurt feelings -- and killing each other off as punishment. And thus, they cannot win this game -- not because of a double standard but because they are more concerned with their feelings than they are with winning. |
Foodbunny | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:00 am     A woman will not win this show because of the women that are casted. We get a range of personalities in the male players, but for women we get eye candy, eye candy, eye candy, eye candy, eye candy, and a paranoid woman who overplayed. Less they start casting this as a game show instead of Baywatch there will not be a female winner. They want sex in the house, not game playing. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:04 am     Perhaps, Foodbunny, but suppose they casted a bunch of beefcake men..... Do you think these men would be attacking each other because "John hurt my feelings" or "Tim took the woman I met three weeks ago who I was going to live with the rest of my life"? Even if they had gotten sex-crazed, Calvin Klein model type men on here, I think these men would still not be going after each other because of emotional slights. Hell, they'd be playing the women emotions, bedding every damned one of them, comparing notes, and then passing them around. And they would still be strategizing on how to actually win this damned thing. Let's face it, the men on here this year are not exactly God's gift to the intellectual world either! |
Cmc209 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:08 am     Out of the female HG's that are left, I would say that Danielle and Amy (with luck) have the best chance to make it to the end. Chi messed things up in the game with the way she formed alliances and such. Lisa could make it to the end if she plays her cards right, but I stil think that Danielle and Amy have a better chance of going farther then Lisa. |
Crazydog | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:13 am     Foodbunny, as I said above, I agree that of the women left the only two that stood a chance were Dani and the new and improved Lisa. But I don't think it's fair to say that the women are automatically inconsequential just because they are women who look pretty. Of the men, just from a first glance, I would say the only two who stand a chance were Roddy and Jason. The others are generically a dumb hunk, a jerk, an outcast, and an over-the-top emotional whine. Anything can happen. It all depends on how you play. Some were better than others. I do agree with What555 that the current crop of women seem to be much more motivated by revenge than strategy. Amy's only goal is to get rid of Chiara because of their historical animosity, she doesn't seem to think ahead. The game is not sexist. It's just that some people who think that the women should be doing better seem to automatically fall back on the sexism argument. This attitude has always puzzled me. Why is it that as a man I don't particularly care if the winner in any of these reality shows is male or female, I just want to see a good game played. But women seem to always want the winner to be female and resort to complaining about sexism whenever it is not. I'm not trying to start arguments, I am just seeking rational explanations. |
Nutsy | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:15 am     What - you make some good points. I've often said that women could rule the world if they'd just stop fighting with eachother for five minutes! It will be interesting to see if Danielle can hold on to her schemes and plans and actually pull off a win. So far, she seems to have been able to avoid much of the emotional b.s. that has the other women swinging their votes like a pendulum on high speed. |
Nutsy | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:17 am     Crazydog - I think it's a "if she can do it, I could do it" mentality that sees women wanting other women to win. Sort of a "one for us" kind of thang. |
Foodbunny | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:25 am     I'm not saying that they can't get their act together because they are pretty, though I know that's how it cam across. Look, what kind of women are they casting for the show? Ones that want to compete for male attention because catfights = ratings. Because if they don't compete directly by arguing they'll compete through their relationships and they're more likely to get sex, and that too = ratings. Not all women would vote based on emotional slights, but they aren't picking the kind of women who can play that way. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:34 am     Foodbunny, Perhaps you are right and the producers purposely selected women like this. However, I suspect it would be very hard for them to find men who wouldact like this, unless they found a whole bunch of Marcelluses -- and there aren't that many men around like him, even in the gay community. Whereas I suspect it is very easy to find women like this. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:41 am     What, Crazydog, I don't have time to deal with you right now but will when I get home this evening. In the meantime, my best advice is to arm yourselves with asbestos suits and steel athletic supporters.  |
Crazydog | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:15 am     LOL Goddess. Better do so quickly or you'll find this thread archived already! I still believe that inherently there is no reason why a woman cannot win this game. A woman who plays a good game and covers her bases stands just as good a chance as a man. I believe the same types of discussions always float around about Survivor, and women have won 50% of those. As far as casting, I stand by my assertion that for every dismissible female there has been a matching dismissible male. These are all stereotypes but until they get in the game and do something to me we have to look at them the way the casting directors did. Tonya, Eric (cognitively challenged). Amy, Marcellus (too emotional). Chiara, Josh (too unlikeable). Lori, Gerry (too misfit). I would even add Lisa, Jason (too meek). Using this loose analysis, from a casting perspective, it comes down to Danielle and Roddy as the only ones who had what it takes to win. I think whenever shows like this are cast there has to be a variety of personalities. If they were all type-A manipulators like Dani and Roddy it'd be a boring show. If they were all roll-over manipulatees like Amy it'd be a boring show. Some of the houseguests have shown they can break out of their sterotyped casting mold, while some have not. I suppose my whole point is that it has nothing to do with male v. female. |
Wiseolowl | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:20 am     yes perfectly possible - just cast 12 women. Sorry thought this was a trick question. |
Groucho | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:32 am     I think it's kind of insulting to say that most of the women were chosen simply because they were "eye candy". I think the producers wanted to cast people they thought would be interesting and diverse. The women in the house reflect this, as do the men. So they got a 35 year old mother of 5 who acts like a 23 year old, a free-spirited New Yorker, a southern belle, etc, etc. Plus, a firefighter, a Christian virgin, a gay black man, etc, etc. Physical attractiveness certainly plays a role in the casting selection, but it goes for both men and women. Do you think all the virgins who applied look like Jason? Or all the firefighters like Eric? Yet we don't dismiss them as incapable of winning because they are "eye candy". If there's a reason that women are less likely to win, I think it's demonstrated in the double standard we apply as viewers. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:33 am     Just don't get all emotional on us Goddess! (OMYGOD! Have I goaded her on?) |
Kearie | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:39 am     I have faith that a woman can win this game, and I believe if Dani makes it to the final two...she will win over anyone. The reason? Every show, be it Survivor or BB, the person who won has always been the most strategic player. Will pist a lot of people off, yet at the end, emotions played very little part in who was voted to win. Strategy and game playing abilities won over petty vengence and hurt feelings. Let me change that...If Jason made it to the final two with Dani, I'm not sure Dani could win. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 12:51 pm     Kearie I agree. This is Dani's to win or lose. She made a major mistake over the weekend. But I think she has the smarts and ability to learn from it, reorient her strategy, move on and win. I have liked her from the beginning because of how well she plays this game and I hope she is able to go all the way. She just needs to stay focused on the goal and begin to watch her back more as there are fewer in the house and people get more ansy. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 06:57 pm     Crazydog, What - I just want you guys to know I haven't forgotten what you said, but I'm too tired to verbally rack you right now. Bumping this to the top of the order so it will be here tomorrow morning when I'm rested and loaded for bear. Plus this will buy me more time to work on my snappy retorts. LOL. |
What555456 | Monday, August 19, 2002 - 06:59 pm     Oh dear, oh dear! How will I sleep? LOL!! Lookin' forward to it Goddess. Should be fun. |
|