Jason's decision and Stockholm Syndrom
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Jason's decision and Stockholm Syndrom
Wcv63 | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:51 pm     There are many events which can cause the syndrome. It is catagorized by a misplaced sense of obligation, loyalty, or fealty. A common scenario is battered and abused spouses. I believe that what we are seeing in not just Jason but Amy as well, is just such a misplaced sense of obligation. What caused it? Roddy himself caused this phenomenom with the subtle mind games he plays with them. The way he alternately praises and chides them. The confinement, lack of outside stimulation, and the way the game is set-up causes mental strain and stress. Even if the danger is only being evicted that is a true fear and could be considered a true danger. |
Zachsmom | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:59 pm     From Goddessatlaw You know what, I don't Zachsmom - if you are, then please identify yourself as such and explain what it's like to be you so that we might be more fully informed of the ramifications of the Syndrome. Which part do you want to know about? Do you want to know about the psychology of me falling in love with a man who beat/raped and held a gun to my head on a consistent basis? and the fact that I refused to press chargers or testify against him?Or do you want to know about the years of therapy that I went through? Do you want the name/number of my therapist to corroberate my story? What will suffice? It's not enough for me to come on a board and say it's demeaning..??Shows where human kindness has come to..this is a board about BB..when another poster says that a certain view is demeaning that should be respected.. If not, maybe we can call Patty Hearst for a tie breaker. yes..the human kindness I was speaking about.. I would have stayed out of this had the original poster stated "Isn't it amazing how the actions of the HGs aren't the norm of what they would be in real life..but the longer isolation time seems to affect their reasoning" Would have been better than labeling or comparing in to those who have actually suffered psychological trama. |
Eden | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:03 pm     While the HG did enter the house voluntarily, I think the longer they stay there the more they begin to accept this psuedo reality, game environment as real. Complete isolation from family, friends and media, constantly feeling vulnerable for months on end, not really being able to trust anyone, forced familiarity all, in time, make for a skewed and scary reality. The decisions they make shouldn't be based upon what they would actually do in real life but what they would do within the context of the game. But they are LIVING the game, and that is where the lines of what is the game and what is real begin to blur. People become more easily manipulated because they are partially losing their real sense of self. What Roddy is doing by his type of manipulation is forcing people to play this game as if it were reality. He seems to find the thing about the person that they most admire or, sometimes, dislike about themselves so that they lose the sense of themselves as a player and think more about how they are as a person. That's exactly what he did to Chiara, Amy, Jason and Marcellas. He takes them out of the game and that is how he controls it. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:05 pm     Zachsmom - I have numerous clients from former prosecutions and from domestics incidents like yours. Some have suffered a Stockholm like syndrome more related to "abused spouse syndrome," some have not. All of them, however, have welcomed and even been eager for open discussion and discourse so that others may understand that it is a true phenomenon, not a personal shame that they need hide from the world for the rest of their lives. |
Wavelength | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:06 pm     Wcv63, Great post! I'm sure many woman have been or are now in a situation with a person like Roddy. Jason seems to be a very vulnerable person and it was obvious on Sat. night's show that he isn't able to understand why he is feeling the way he does. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:08 pm     I am curious, however, why if this was in fact such an issue that it was not raised in your initial post as a "please don't go there" request. You would have been taken seriously. Your initial post, however, addressed only your contempt for the fact that you believed this to be another Roddy bashing thread. |
Zachsmom | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:16 pm     "I am curious, however, why if this was in fact such an issue that it was not raised in your initial post as a "please don't go there" request. " Because Goddess..I have asked time and time again to stop the analogy/assertion that roddy is some sort of abuser..(how you suggested of "Please don't go there" been ignored three times now)people just don't listen..I get tired of asking people to stop..I have seen others asking this to stop..so this to me is that the posters on this formum could give a rats pa-too-tee about me or anyone else who have asked..it has been ignored in the past and I am positive it will be ignored in the future.. |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:22 pm     Zachsmom, I do feel compassion for you. Truly I do. I just feel that that you are confusing "real life" situations with situations manufactured for the purpose of playing a game. It's easy enough to do if personal issues shape your perceptions. I do feel as if Roddy has used mental manipulations as part of his game strategy. In the house it takes the form of building people up, tearing them down, and turning the situation around until their own perceptions are skewed by these manipulations. As a strategy it has been effective for him and I think it has created some of the symptoms catagorized as Stockholm's Syndrome. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:27 pm     Zachsmom - if it helps at all, I do not view Roddy as an abuser. He's just playing his game. I've seen the very real results of abuse, and I deal with abusers just about every day over some case or another. In fact I did not visit the threads addressing this subject because I did not see Roddy as an example of what a true abuser represents. I completely agree with your distress over Roddy being ascribed characteristics of a true abuser, as we both have seen plenty of the real thing. However, my disagreement is in trying to prevent discourse which is informative to people who might benefit, even in the small context of this household, of what traits a Stockholm Syndrome sufferer may exhibit. It is not to accuse Roddy of any part of that, as I previously said - it is to reckon with the reactions of the people within the household who have themselves (not Roddy) elevated him to an untouchable status. If you think people don't care, specifically me, about the circumstances of your life you are wrong. However, in the context of this particular discussion I take a position opposite of yours - I believe the more it's discussed under circumstances which interest people, the better off we all are for increasing understanding and awareness. Having said that, I hope that you and I may speak further in a more private setting so that you may see that I do care and I do understand. |
Caliogirl | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:35 pm     For anyone who is a true victim of Stockholm Syndrome -- or any other form of abuse -- I am truly sorry for your pain and the challenges you face everyday in moving forward. I was a victim of abuse in my formative years and I can empathize with those who have similar experiences. This thread isn't about that. I didn't pose the question to bash or demonize anyone -- it was intended to look at the HG's in this unique setting and the sociological impacts it has on them and those around them. Let's leave it at that. It's not a personal attack or attempt to question anyone's ability to show compassion. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:38 pm     I'm interested in hearing your analysis of the houseguests and their methods of responding to Roddy, Calio. Any thoughts? |
Zachsmom | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:43 pm     In fact I did not visit the threads addressing this subject because I did not see Roddy as an example of what a true abuser represents. Thank you..I cannot tell you how much that means to me to hear (see) you say that..there are others out there who will probably agree.. even in the small context of this household, of what traits a Stockholm Syndrome sufferer may exhibit. The isolation and their perception to reality I will agree..they cannot percieve what life is like outside of the House..I can in some small way concede on that point.. it is to reckon with the reactions of the people within the household who have themselves (not Roddy) elevated him to an untouchable status. I agree..Roddy has no power yet the others believe he does..why I don't know.. This is why I believe that if the thread would have been better stated about the altering of the mind from the HGs and not ascribed "Stockholm" I wouldn't have been so offended..that was MY diagnosis and these HGs have not gone through near the mental trama..I guess I am touchy about labels.. I can try to help others understand isolation and what it does to you..I didn't have outside contact for 6 months other than with my abuser.. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:53 pm     I'm sorry to say I have to run to a meeting. Zachsmom, thanks for that last post and peace be with us. I do think it WOULD be helpful for us who are trying to diagnose what ails the houseguests to have a picture of what that kind of isolation feels like, if you are comfortable discussing it, Zachsmom. I know I haven't experienced it. I'll try to check in later.  |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:53 pm     Goddessatlaw, you didn't address your comment to me but I'm going to answer anyway because I sometimes like to butt in. It seems as if the houseguests see Roddy as benefector of sorts after being with him. By this I mean Amy seems to feel that he has given her insights into her character and has in turn helped to make her a better person. Real or imagined (or manufactured) Amy feels an obligation. The thing is that Roddy didn't tell her anything she didn't already know. She came into the house saying that she had built defensive walls and was spoiled and selfish. Roddy pointing these things out to her and giving her the obvious answers (stop being selfish, allow people to get to know you) have somehow made her feel grateful and obligated to him. Jason on the other hand had his integrity questioned and used against him. Roddy knows that Jason values his morals and integrity above all things and Roddy's manipulations of Jason's emotions and principles and then his "forgiveness" and offer of friendship regardless of Jason's lapse have instilled in Jason that self-same sense of obligation. They see it happening but seem powerless to fight it without warring with their own firmly held beliefs. |
Wavelength | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 03:31 pm     The one thing that every HG understands is that confrontation is not going to be tolerated by the others. It must be extremely hard to be in contact with people that you may not have chosen as friends and are often annoyed by and you have no recourse. The agression comes out in different ways. Roddy is good at knowing just what to do or say. Maybe he did his psychology homework before he entered the house? Is it as simple as that? |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 03:34 pm     Wavelength...someone said that Roddy had a degree in psychology. I don't know if this is true but it does make sense. |
Corriecat | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 03:46 pm     What this reminds me of more than Stockholm Syndrome is a sequestered jury on a long case. Like a jury you have a group of people focused on one thing for a period of time and making decisions about the fate of someone. In this case it happens to be members of the group. There are some who are better at swaying the emotions of others and getting them to do what they want them to. And similar to the jury I was on friendships formed very quickly and the isolation caused us to think these relationships were stronger than they actually were. And the final similarity - the boredome between activities and votes. |
Katrina | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 03:53 pm     Maybe someone rising out of a group of ostensible equals into the position of a cult leader would be a more apropos analogy than Stockholm Syndrome, where the parties begin the interaction in unequal positions? |
Mystery | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 03:54 pm     Hasn't Roddy mentioned Jonestown already? |
Wavelength | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 04:12 pm     Yes! Maybe we are watching the best actual BB show and we don't even know it. They no longer have Dr. Drew or the banners to save/alert them. They are actually in the trenches this time. I just want to add that I don't think Jason is doing very well emotionally and that bothers me. |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 04:25 pm     It bothers me too Wavelength. |
Sassylady | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 04:50 pm     First off, I am so sorry to who ever has been the victim of abuse and has been hurt by any comment I have made on these boards. One time I wrote I felt what Roddy was doing to Chiari was like emotional abuse. If this caused anyone any distress please forgive me. My husband has emotionally abused me and there were things I noticed with Roddy that reminded me of my husband--that is why I made the comment. I just read the last 10 or so post on this thread and I might be way off base and not even on topic but I just needed to apolgize if I contributed in any way to cause someone pain and/or discomfort. |
Sassylady | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 05:06 pm     Calio: I just now read the original post to this thread--duh me I do things sort of backwards..lol Anyway, I have to tell you that I loved your post and I think it is the best one I have read this season. Good job!!!!
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Mrdisguise | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 06:16 pm     there is a chance that Jason crying in the Diary Room was an act. He plays the part of being naive, innocent, gullible. he keeps Roddy around and people will focus on getting rid of Roddy since Roddy is like Richard Hatch- most likely to win. |
Caliogirl | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 09:00 pm     Hey Corriecat - I like the jury analogy. I would give anything to be on a jury. I'm fascinated with the criminal justice system and human behaviour. Not only have I never been called, my co-worker has been called 7 times! Think they know something I don't ? Goddess, have to process your question - too frazzled now, husbands, kids, and chaos reign supreme at the house tonight. Have fun everyone, play nice and see you all tomorrow  |
Earthmother | Monday, August 26, 2002 - 09:18 pm     As usual I'm late to the party..I thought this was about Jason going on a trip to Sweeden when he wins the money..lol |
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