Archive through August 28, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archives Two: Lisa appears to have serious issues... (ARCHIVES): Archive through August 28, 2002

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris,

I only respond to your posts, most of which defy logic.

You are obviously somewhat biased, as you admitted being a recipient of a sexual harassment claim.

I'm willing to guess that you ALWAYS side with the female plaintiff in such cases, regardless of the facts and circumstances.

Oh men, they're pigs!

Maris

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Just to correct on the Shower incident. Lisa was not in the shower when they invited Amy in. Chiara and Tonya were in the shower. I believe it was Chiara who made the comment that at least she tried when she asked Amy to join in the fun. It could could been Tonya. I do know that Lisa was nowhere near the shower incident. Lisa did the PB&J but not the shaving cream.

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd be surprised if Lisa DID NOT say she likes it on top.

Between her and Chiara, I think everyone has gotten quite a sex education course. Navel orgasms, huh? Who woulda thought?

You can bet your bank account that if Eric or Josh had sung a joke song to her, she would've laughed and laughed. And joined in.

And then showed them how she likes it on top.

And God knows what else she would've shown the world.

Cute1073

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well hosewater.....i know i'm just coming into the convo...but at least here in Canada you must have told your boss or whomever at least once that what they have said has made you feel uncomfortable. You can't just take one comment or joke and take it to court and make thousands of dollars off of it. So either the US court system where you are is completly F**** up or there may be facts to that story that are missing. Not a comment about your knowledge or anything....but it seems like I would question a story like that based on the knowledge that I have about the legal system (at least in Canada....and I know that is very much different than the US's)


As for Gerry's comments to Lisa (and there has been more than one that have made her feel uncomfortable). It's ok she feels uncomfortable but she really should tell him at least once because he would most likely stop. Then if he did not stop she would have a basis for a complaint. Sexual harassment can take many forms. It's all about whether someone is feeling uncomfortable and whether that has been communicated.
There has been lots of sex talk in this house but I have never really seen Lisa discuss sex explicity with other guys around (besides Eric) and I have never seen or heard anyone make comments about her sexual preferences....especially one of the guys.

Jhezzie

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I can't find any posts of this usage of sticks or broom handles anywhere, here or elsewhere. All I heard was confusing. Roddy, who was apparently right there, didn't know what she was talking about, but Gerry creeped her out.
Knowing how uber-paranoid BB is, to the point that the HGs couldn't bring razors because of Justin, were Lisa and Gerry in the DR for hours, stating their cases or is this another hyper-sensitive, I-hate-Gerry-he's gross, bash?

Maris

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Hosewater, there is no need to get personal with me. You have been doing that since the get go. I dont think men are pigs.

I have repeatedly said I did not witness the incident regarding Gerry. I have not been nasty with Gerry and I have merely said I do not care for people making excuses for the behavior. I will refrain from passing judgement on you and would appreciate you doing the same. So please just ignore me before you force me to call you an ignorant jerk.

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Cute, you said it... The US court system is screwed up.

She lost most of the money on appeal.

The guy lost his job, never got that back.

I worked with one of her co-workers who was there that day. She (the co-worker) told me that this was a single, isolated event. One dirty joke coupled with eye contact, and this guy was painted as a harasser. 25 years with the agency, never a complaint.

We live in a world of guilty until proven guilty when it comes to sexual harassment.

It's an attitude of "Men are pigs, women never lie."

Jazzcat

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
hosewater, imo you need some serious counselling.
back off!

cute, your post is a breath of fresh air and a voice of reason amidst this heat

Cute1073

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Seems like to me we are getting some classic examples of victim blaming.....Lisa has talked about sex in the past to her girlfriends in the house (NOT TO THE GUYS) and so therefore she is not justified in feeling uncomfortable when a man makes a comment to her about her personal sexual preferences?

She has every right to feel the way she feels and we certainly have no right to say she should shut up and take it! I'm sure women who are sexually harassed would much rather have their boyfriends make comments to them.....but the very fact that it isn't someone that they are comfortable with is what makes it sexual harassment.

Just because Lisa expressed to her 'boyfriend' in private that she can have a naval orgasm does not mean she should have to take comments that make her feel uncomfortable! She has every right to express those emotions.....WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY SHE DOESNT

Lancecrossfire

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris--thank you for correctng me on the shower incident. I think I'm correct on the graphic lessons on how to give oral sex to a male though.

And my comment about Danni and Marc posting some of this stuff was made because they are very good at seeing only one person being in the wrong, even though others may have done the same thing--much like what is going on here. Nothing at all to do with minimizing anything concerning Lisa.

I could, for the third time point out instances where the definition of sexual harassment was meant (based on how others are saying Gerry is guilty of sexual harassment), yet many of you have not said it about anyone other than Gerry.

Not even Josh was accused by any of you of sexual harassment for slapping the back sides of the various women (and he even made a statemnt in the DR which they showed on Tv where he said he didn't care of they didn't like it, he would continue to do it)

I'm at a loss why some folks accuse only Gerry of this action--which is an actaul crime. Why have you not said anything about any of the others being potential sexual harassers?

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:54 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Jazzcat,

No need for that kind of attack.

Counselling for what, exactly?

Sexual harassment because I said men are pigs?

Cute1073

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well hosewater...let me congratulate you on once again reminding me why I thank god every day that I was born a Canadian and not an American....I do not live in the world you live in. (no offense to other americans who do not live in hosewater's world)

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 12:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance, thank you.

The ONLY reason I am debating this issue about Lisa is simply because nobody has raised it on anyone but Gerry.

I am not excusing Gerry or anyone else in that show (and remember, it is a show).

I am simply raising my ire over how people on this message board rake Gerry over the coals but laugh and giggle, or just plain ignore, the other houseguests for similar behavior.

You know, like when BB showed Gerry's disgusting habits, the farting and coughing, yet does not show the others doing it -- remember Roddy wiping his nose while cooking dinner?

I hate hypocrisy. Do I need counseling for that?

Annitar

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"let me congratulate you on once again reminding me why I thank god every day that I was born a Canadian and not an American"

Okay that might have went a little far and then to end it with "no offense to other americans"?

Let's leave attacks on each other's countries out of this. Please?!?

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
By the way, what is the difference between regular counseling and serious counseling?

And is counseling part of that free health care in Canada?

Cute1073

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
lancecrossfire...that description was meant for the girl's ears only (and I suppose the internet viewers)

As for what josh was doing....I think if some of the women expressed feeling uncomfortable at Josh's actions the way Lisa expressed to Roddy how she was feeling about Gerry then we would all be definately feeling the same way. And for the record....I would have been pissed at Josh for doing that to me and told him to stop.....if he did not stop I would then start making complaints about possible sexual harassment


may I also say Lisa never said anything about being sexually harrassed....she just comment that she felt 'icky' and again I say who are we to say that she should not feel that way if she does

Maris

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lance, I will correct you again. I was a very big poster about Josh slapping women and how I thought it was disgusting that none of them complained about it. I would have been in the DR really fast. I thought it was demeaning and I could not understand how the women said nothing. To me the action is bad but saying nothing is also just as bad.

I dont know whether Gerry did this. As I said, and I am not a big Gerry fan, I find it hard to beleive that it occurred however, if he did do it then he was wrong and Lisa was equally wrong in not filing the complaint.

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Cute, I accuse you of patriotic harassment!

See you in court (an American one).

Cyn

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
As a person who works for a multi-national and have had seen first hand very public law suits in our firm, I would like to say that the reason that the supervisor had actions brought against him was due to him being in a position of authority. The woman’s co-workers were her equals, but when and if it comes from a person with authority over you, well that changes the whole picture.

This is the first thread that I have read today. Not sure what's going on here, just opened it up and haven't been able to see the feeds or read the posts for the past 12 hours. I'm adding personal feelings only.

I have seen sexual harassment sprinkled with racism since DAY 1 take place in this house towards both sexes and many races.

However, if Gerry did do what is claimed inside of this thread, he is guilty of sexual harassment. Does it lessen it because others have also - NO!

))now i go to investigate further((

Lancecrossfire

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok folks, the one thing that has happened while we've been discussing this is that at times, there have been personal attacks to each other.

If we could refrain from that while at the same time stating our cases about the issues, we could avoid having the last hour's worth of posts removed from the board.

Jhezzie

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
That's what I see going on in the house, Hose. I'm sure Lisa got bugged or something, but I think if it were any other HG, this would have never been an issue with her.
It's because it was Gerry. They are obsessed with hating this man. He's the <>. He's the <>. He's the <>. He's a <>.

Cute1073

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry about that Annitar....got carried away...but seriously that really sucks that so many people can sue people for so little down there in the states....I meant I don't have anything against most americans...it's well only parts of your system that seems messed up to me.

And actually Yes hosewater...and I wouldn't call it 'free'..it is paid for by the tax payers

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa only felt "icky" about Gerry because he's twice as old as her.

I mean, it's like teenagers going to a rock concert with their mom or dad as a chaperone.

"Don't come inside with us, Dad. Wait in the car. I don't want my friends to see me with you. Oooo, ick!"

Cyn

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, and... I recall in the first few weeks Lisa talking about NOT liking it on top because it bores men adn she didn't get off. Danielle explained how it should be done and Roddy explained to her how this is NOT true that men love it. Eric agreed.

Hosewater

Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Can you imagine if BB producers had put in an older male houseguest who looked like Tom Selleck or Kevin Costner?

Or even older... Sean Connery?

These women would be all over someone like that.