Archive through August 28, 2002
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Lisa appears to have serious issues... (ARCHIVES):
Archive through August 28, 2002
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:07 am     I never said Lisa said anything about being sexually harrassed. Ok, so Lisa wasn't involved in the shower thing, although no one has aggreed that Chiara and Tonya were guilty of sexcual harassment against Amy. And no one has said a word about the times some of the women made sexual comments or did movemnts where Jason repeatadly said he was not comfortable. I'll say it again--the accusation was never brought up in those cases. So I'll ask again--why the double standard? |
Hosewater | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:08 am     Well, I have to go to bed now... It's very late, and my mommy says that you can't be late for 6th grade. Good night! |
Sunrise | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:09 am     Because it's Gerry, Lancecrossfire! |
Jhezzie | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:10 am     It's because it's Gerry, Lance. Simple as that. If he burst into flame and burned to a pile of ash, they would call him a slob for not picking up after himself. |
Cute1073 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:10 am     Ok....sorry...i got carried away like I said before....but I got sensitive when it seemed like lisa's feelings didn't matter. Lisa expressed how she felt to the other ladys and made a point of saying that she wasn't going to make a big stink about it to the DR. I think this is another case of 53 days in the house and things getting under people's skins easily. Some are more sensitive to others. Admittedly Gerry gets on people's nerves in the house more than others....regarding hygene issues...this probably is the basis for Lisa's gross out. I think everyone in the house gets slack for different things. Example.....Amy making fun of Roddy's pontificating earlier....and poor roddy was just trying to express an interesting thought. Gerry tries to have fun with the group by making a sexually inappropriate comment to Lisa....she feels uncomfortable...None of this would have bothered any of them if they had gotten in the house two days ago.....oh wait never mind.... I think Gerry's comment would have still bugged lisa. |
Maris | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:15 am     I have commented on Josh, I have not commented on Jason. Why, probably because I find Jason innocuous. Jason has told Kiki numerous times that he finds her fascinating, etc. I only saw Jason object once to Kiki and that was when she asked him to sleep in the HOH room with her. As I recall she dropped it. I dont agree with any kind of harrassment regardless of what sex is involved. On the Gerry issue, I did not see what happened with Lisa and only went on what I saw on the feeds in terms of her conversation with Roddy. If someone actually saw what occurred it might help. I dont want you to think I am busting your chops Lance, its just sometimes I feel I have to be extra clear on what my posts mean. |
Vonne | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:17 am     Cute1073 -- Lisa has talked about sex in the past to her girlfriends in the house (NOT TO THE GUYS) Maybe not DIRECTLY TO THE GUYS, but she has KNOWINGLY spoken about sex within ear-shot of the guys. Roddy and Gerry in particular. One night when she and the girls (Dani, Amy & Chiara) were playing a drinking game that invloved sex acts they had participated in, Roddy and Gerry weren't far away and could hear EVERYTHING that was said and the girls knew it but didn't seem to care. And if I remember correctly she didn't like it that Gerry was smiling when they were doing this but no mention at all that Roddy was enjoying it just as much. She seems to have a serious dislike of Gerry and takes every opportunity to put it out there. I think this world is biased when it comes to sexual harrasment, most men can do no right and most women can do no wrong. The things that have been said/done to Jason in this house can be categorized as sexual harrassment, but because it was happening to a guy by one of the girls it wasn't precieved in the same manner as it is when it's guy (particularly Gerry) saying/doing something inappropriate to one of the girls. As I said before, I just don't get some people  |
Wendo | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:18 am     This is a very grey area. I understand that Lisa felt uncomfortable with this alleged incident. And, if she feels uncomfortable, she has every right to FEEL uncomfortable about it. On the other side, though, these HG's have at many times talked explicity about sex, sexual positions, and sexual practices. Tonight I was re-watching the last three episodes of BB. Last Wed., Thurs., and Sat. During the Wed. show was the EXPLICIT talk when the women got alcohol. (Remember, the begged for more wine.) Anyway, the conversation started at the table with Lisa, Amy, Chi and Dani talking about lesbian encounters. Li and Chi kissed several times, (also I watched the feeds of this and frequently, Gerry was brought into the conversation about sex). Roddy and Gerry were playing chess and were aware of the conversation. In addition, at one point during this segment on the show Gerry joined their convo and sat on the lounge in the dining area. The segment ends with the women in the HT, Chi and Li kissing with smoke and Chi simulating sex with Amy. I don't doubt that Lisa at some point has shared to the HG's, during convos such as these, her preference for sexual positions. The more sexually open women have put it out there in the house. If they wanted to keep such things private and not for public discussion in the house, then they should have thought about it prior to opening their mouths. I'm sorry, but the people in that house (and the women especially) have layed out their sexual proclivities for all to see and hear. That other HG's comment on it shouldn't surprise them. And this includes Gerry. So long story longer, while I understand that Lisa felt uncomfortable during this alleged incident, I also can see things from Gerry's point of view. Sex talk in that house has NOT been an off limits topic. In addition, I question whether this incident would have bothered her as much had it been Roddy, Jason, or even Chiara who had done what Gerry is alleged to have done? Part of me thinks not. |
Cute1073 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:24 am     Believe it or not I agree with you wendo....I completly understand why Gerry brought it up and felt like he could say something like that. Even though Gerry has said a few things to Lisa that have made her uncomfortable she has never told him thats how she feels......So...she shouldn't blame him for making comments like that. I think my point way back 100 posts ago was that Lisa needs to say something to Gerry if it is bugging her. That is a serious thing and I thing Gerry would want to know if he was making her feel uncomfortable. Also...on the other side of it, if lisa did say to Gerry he makes her feel uncomfortable...i believe it would hurt his feelings because he would realize how outside the group her really is. sticky situation that admittedly Lisa may have created herself....but again...should deny how she feels. I think I responded (perhaps prematurly) to some sentiment that I percieved that seemed to imply that Lisa should just shut up and take comments that make her feel uncomfortable...and my point was that no one should have to do that regardless of what precipated them....but she also should tell someone it is bugging her. |
Onlyhuman | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:33 am     Lance, I don't disagree with you that there is a double standard. However, this board is well aware of that double standard. I know for sure that there was at least one thread talking about Chiara's actions toward Jason being sexually harassing and there was a great deal of debate on why it was ignored. One thing to keep in mind is the relationships amongst these people. Chiara and Jason, to a certain extent, were friends. I think it would be a great stretch to call Lisa and Gerry that. How many times do Gerry & Lisa willingly interact? For that reason, the statement Gerry made to Lisa shocked her, as it was not appropriate in their relationship. Add this to the fact that all of the girls feel like he leers at them while they are showering and you know why Lisa was uncomfortable. Was it sexual harassment? I have no idea. Do I blame her for being uncomfortable? No. Do I think she deserved it because of her behavior? No. Do I think that this is a good lesson about the risks of putting out your sexual information in a public forum? Yes. |
Cute1073 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:36 am     Well stated onlyhuman! |
Laffy | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:48 am     i have to agree with hosewater. i was thinking earlier today, that lisa would have no problem if gerry looked like mel gibson, who is the same age as gerry. it seems like a case of the "good looking" people not wanting ANY attention from the "older" or "ordinary" looking one. i like lisa, and am not a fan of gerry, but after all the mean things she has said i don't think she she has any room to be offended by what someone else says. reminds me of something my mother always used to say..."what's good for the goose is good for the gander" or how about "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me?" it seems far too many people find far too many things to be offended by these days. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 01:52 am     I still say that if you don't SAY anything to the person making you feel uncomfortable that you are falling into the role of "victim". If she is really uncomfortable and says something to Gerry and he still doesn't stop then the guy is guilty of sexual harassment. Right now he is only guilty of bad judgement and tasteless humor. |
Hotty_Toddy | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:04 am     Boy this thread has taken off. I can't believe how fast people were to say it is Lisa's fault because of the way she dresses or that she talks about sex, or that she only is upset because of Gerry's age or appearance. SEXUAL HARASSMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEX OF EITHER PARTY, THE SEXUAL ORIENTATION OF EITHER PARTY, THE CLOTHING OR APPEARANCE OF EITHER PARTY. WHAT MAKES IT SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS HOW IT MAKES THE PERSON FEEL--DIRTY, UNCOMFORTABLE, UPSET, AND BELITTLED. There probably aren't many men who can appreciate what it feels like to be sexually intimidated. Lisa does. You know it when you see it. I guess it's like racism; I can't say an action isn't racist when I'm not black. There are some things you can't feel just with empathy. There is a difference between just being grossed out and being really upset. For the record, I think Chiara's behaviour towards Jason was extremely inappropriate as well. The fact that he had a crush on her did not make that any less sexual harassment either. I often thought that if it was a man doing that to a female virgin, no one would have tolerated it. Maybe Gerry is just a bumbling idiot and meant no harm at all, but A WOMAN SHOULD NEVER QUESTION HER SURVIVAL INSTINCT, whether she is in a dark alley in New York or a well-lit studio in California. It is better to look like a fool than to get hurt or abused in any way. If a friend told me the story Lisa did, I would absolutely tell her to stay away from the guy if possible and not that she was overreacting or that she should ignore her feelings. Women do that too often and they wind up victims of rape, abuse, and murder. I am not saying Gerry would ever do her any physical harm, but I absolutely do not tolerate somebody saying it's her fault for wearing a thong or talking about sex. I don't accept the notion that she makes herself a victim by not telling. That bullsh*t continues to put all the blame on the victim rather than the abuser. Again, I can't say whether Gerry is an abuser, but NO level of putting a person at fault for another person's actions is acceptable. That's the garbage that makes a woman think she will be a b*tch if she tells or that it is rude to say, "No," or "You're making me uncomfortable." If stealing is wrong, it's just as wrong to steal a piece of candy as it is to steal a car. Regardless of whatever happens in that house, I hope everyone listens to me about this in your own life. Women: FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCTS and men, don't tell the women you love they are being silly when they tell you a guy was looking at them funny at the mall. It could save your life. |
Hotty_Toddy | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:29 am     Oh, there's more. Hosewater, judging by your anecdote, you seem to have a strong bias that sexual harassment is just a big scam. You might think about that when you accuse someone of always taking the woman's side. No one mentioned other HGs because the title of the thead is "LISA appears to have serious issues." Josh, Tonya, and Chiara are all gone. I don't post that much, and at the time Kiki was telling Jason how much she wanted to suck him off, I was still ranting to my husband about it instead of the board. I actually looked for the incident with Lisa on the feeds after she mentioned it, couldn't find it. We may have had four feeds of chess at that time, who knows. The problem with sexual harassment (or abuse) is that victims usually are too afraid or embarassed to speak up. It isn't easy and that's why abuse goes on for long periods of time. That's what the person is trying to bully them. Lisa is a perfect victim. |
Car54 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:46 am     The thing you do if someone says something that makes you uncomfortable is tell THEM and tell them to stop. If they continue, you complain to the employers or producers. Did either of these things happen? If they didn't it isn't harrassment, it is fodder for gossip. |
Tunape | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:47 am     Good point Hotty. I know that there can be a certain way that another person can look at you, that definitely communicates more than the words spoken. That look can ring an alarm inside when there has been some experience previously encountered that was negative, in relation to a similar "look". I also know that most of the time I cannot see the fine details on my RP. Lisa may be reacting to what she saw and the words/song/actions, when we could only see a semi-focused view and hear what was said (if it was viewed on RP). As upset as Lisa was over this, I suspect that there was more to it than we could see. Just my thoughts. |
Whit4you | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:06 am     Hello? Is there anybody out there? Anyone sane that is? This thread is about a gal who like completely like went like off on someone saying "Hi" - oh and not just "Hi" but "Hi" in the middle of a passionate kiss. Have you forgotten? Now me - personally if someone was in the middle of a passionate kiss with ME and said "Hi" - um they'd prolly be on the floor or at least gone for good. But for her it was the biggest deepest most passionate romantic thing in the world. OK? So um some dude playing an air guitar singing a "You like it on top" (fyi I love that song lol) gawd knows what meaning THAT has for her. If "Hi" means all that it means to her.... Gerry's actions gawd for bid mighta been um - beyond anything any of us can imagine you know? So uh let it go. It's her thing - her kink... ya know? Has nothing to do with Gerry! And as far as this 'work place' sexual harrasment thing Lance.... thwap!!! LOL. I don't call showering up yer fellow nakid co-workers 'normal' workplace activites... nor do I call touching tounges with fellow workers normal nor do I call gawd I could go on for hours should I??? This is NOT anything you could compare to ANY other 'work place' environment - so you can't concider Gerry singing OUT of place or sexually harrasing IN this environment. Yes there could be 'sexual harrasment' in this environment... ie the Boogie "if you sleep with me I wont nom you' type of thing.... but um singing.. that's about as weird as the "hi" thing LOL. I didn't see the 'said incident' but I have seen Gerry playing his airguitar a few times - nothing friggen sexual about it...trust me LOL! And if you aint heard the song he was singing - trust me you should it was one of my favs years ago. Lisa's a youngster though - she prolly though Gerry made that up just for her. Like Eric made up the word "Hi" Just for her LOL. |
Hotty_Toddy | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:16 am     Car 54, you are flat out wrong. As I just explained and is common knowledge, it is difficult to report this type of activity. Are you are aware that the vast majority of rapes go unreported? Why do you think that on COPS those battered women always refuse to press charges when the the police say, if you don't, he'll keep doing it until he kills you? This is a much smaller scale, but it's still the same societal training you've obviously gotten that it is just so easy to say, "Stop." It isn't. If you steal my car and I don't report it, does that mean you didn't do anything wrong and it's my fault I am walking to work? NO! Of course not! It makes it harder to change the situation, but it does not change the fact that you commited a crime against me. You could extrapolate your claim and quickly see how ridiculous it is. My boss could put his hand up my skirt and into my panties and explicitly tell me he'd like to do all kinds of sexual things to me, but if I don't go over his head to report him because I am afraid of losing my job or being labelled a false accuser and I just tell a friend, it's just office gossip and he did nothing wrong? Do you REALLY believe that? Or are you saying that there are acceptable levels of sexually inappropriate behaviour? It is the 21st century and we are still hanging on to these antiquated notions about sexual offences. Don't. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:26 am     Hotty...I've been a victim of sexual harrassment. So don't tell ME that I am blaming the victim by saying that if Lisa is uncomfortable she needs to say something about it. That wasn't blame. That was the truth. Otherwise you remain a victim. Tell me how I'm wrong?!? Lisa needs to follow her instincts and SAY something dammit. How else is the behavior going to be stopped? |
Kaili | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:33 am     Hotty_Toddy - I just woke up and have only read this page- don't even know what the incident is that everyone is talking about. However, whatever it is I have to say that your post at 3:04 am was EXCELLENT. Now I need to go show and eat! |
Woebegone | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:34 am     Early morning convo between Amy and Lisa, Lisa related another incident with Gerry where he was in the hammock looking at her in while she was washing clothes in bikini top. She said she had to go inside and put something else on. She said Chiapet could confirm the fact that it made her so uncomfortable. Amy relates that Marci felt uncomfortable during the slip n slide competition. In comes Roddy, and Lisa immediately tells him they were talking about rubbing oil all over their bodies. His comment: "Oh that's just what I needed to hear right now!" Does this define Lisa as a sexual harasser? She laughed at his comment. This woman is trying to build a case against Gerry, while at the same time doing the same thing...in practically the same breath. Duplicity at its peak! It was interesting that Amy, of all people, pointed out to her that it's probably been going on since day one, and that it's only NOW that it seems to be bothering people because the number of people is down and there are less people to "focus" on. Lisa needs to grow up. |
Crossfire | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:38 am     Wow, what a thread. Some of you are talking about very serious things here in this thread making it sound like Gerry raped Lisa or something, I had to go all up and down reading everything to figure out what the heck happened, and as far as I can tell, NOTHING happened. Unless someone has something more concrete to talk about, or cares to name a crime commited with even the smallest shread of proof, then this is all making Gerry sound one hell of a lot worse than what is warranted. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:43 am     Crossfire, Gerry made Lisa uncomfortable but she won't say anything and some board posters are saying it is sexual harrassment. I say, that unless she tells him to stop she is just being a victim. If he isn't told to stop he is only clueless. If she tells him to stop and he doesn't, then he is guilty of harassment. IMO I agree with Hotty about one thing. "Follow your instincts." But don't do it quietly. |
Hober | Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 04:48 am     I did not see the air guitar event, so I cannot comment on that, but I did witness on the live feeds one time she said to dani how Gerry made her uncomfortable, and watching the live feeds, I saw a different event then what was repeated to dani. Several weeks ago, Gerry was outside sleeping, like his morning ritual and was on his side with his back to the door. Lisa walked out and this woke Gerry up. He enjoys company when he can get it since he's treated like the worse creature to walk the face of the earth. So he hears someone coming into the backyard and he turns around quickly. Lisa apologized that she startled him. Gerry turns to face her and tries to make conversation. When Lisa tells Dani, she repeats how he leered at her. I didn't see that at all.....did she feel it, I don't know. I'm just commenting on what I saw. I think stories are blown out of propotion in the house. So seeing how these HG react to anything Gerry does as being horrible, I have a tendency to believe that if the air guitar incident took place, then some truth may be mixed in, but what we are hearing is Lisa version with the embellishments to make it more exciting. If she's uncomforable say something. Lisa has worked in a strip club as a waitress. I'm sure she is capable of handling herself with men. My opinion, she wants to join in the Gerry bashing to fit in and this is how she is joining in. |
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