Kalekona | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:42 pm     And how do you know Amy isn't strechng the truth? It's very possible she's learning things and making like she already knew- such as marcellas told her about ord and she acted like she already knew about and said"they told me" or whoknows if her mom ever said she liked anyone. Don't you see it could just be Amy playing the hg's. Also remember in bb1 when george got the phone call his wife tried to tell him as much as possible about what was going on. no real difference here- it's not like she was shown DR tapes or live feeds. |
Whit4you | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:44 pm     Puck what I am saying .. is that ALL HG's know this piece of information - therefor why shouldn't she. IF ALL the HG's knew of Dani and Jason's secret alliance then yes she should also be able to know of it as well. My point is that unlike the banners flown that gave inside info that only a few HG's knew and so on.... this info was common knowlege amongst ALL HG's and not just a pact between a few secretly - but it was open public knowledge amongst everyone in the ouse. |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:46 pm     wcv63, there is a HUGE distinction between manipulation of ALL the guests by one action and manipulation to directly advantage one guest in order to change the outcome. Screw over the GROUP, yes, screw over some players and assist others, NO. Saying "it's Big Brother, so whatever they do is fine because they're SUPPOSED to manipulate" is a relativistic copout. Sure, anybody can do ANYTHING if you say there are NO standards for anything, but it doesn't mean people will want to watch with the at least semi-legitimacy afforded a real competition. I don't accept that because it's 'Big Brother', the producers can alter outcomes by giving someone information that will give him or her an advantage. "Big Brother" to me is about the surveillance and restrictions, not a political regime that causes the downfall of some and the triumph of others. If it's all about behind-the-scenes manipulation, you might as well script the whole thing like WWF. That's NOT what I want to watch. |
Puckerbutt | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:48 pm     Ryan - I still fail to see your point. Operation Revolving Door was a temporary "alliance" formed by all the remaining house guests. They didn't need the producers to give them the information since they were all a part of it. The ONLY person who was "given" knowledge of the ORD alliance was Amy. So if the semantics of the word "alliance" is the foundation of your argument, you better get a new blueprint. |
Goddess146 | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:49 pm     Amy just said that the producers told her that she really needed to win the HOH and then they FOTHed her. |
Kearie | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:50 pm     How much did Amy hear from her mother? From what I've read in this thread her mother gave an opinion of people she liked. She was quickly told she couldn't say that? How is that important info to anyone? Other then it might give Amy a slight heads up as to who her mother thinks she should trust. Aside from that...I have to trust that BB gave the people all the same information going into the tie-breaker, at least. |
Kalekona | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:52 pm     operation ORD was a direct hit at BB not the returning HG. They were mad and thought the best way to get even would be to ruin BB new twist! trouble is it clearly states bb can change the rules at anytime! Amy didn't have any information that would give her the upper hand. She clearly knew she would have to win HOH and it wasn't bb that got out of that tub! |
Ryanc2002 | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:53 pm     "temporary alliance"? How the hell was it an alliance between the houseguests when it wasn't their idea to bring someone back in? They were ALL given the information that someone would come back in, including the 4 people who had a chance to return. |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:54 pm     It's completely moronic to say that if ALL the houseguests plotted that they would immediately vote out whichever evictee came back in and called it "ORD", that the evictee has the right to know what they've plotted just because all the houseguests "knew about it." Why should the object of the plot have the right to know and change his/her actions accordingly? AND I don't think it's so obvious to each evictee that the houseguests would vote them out immediately. Eric would never think that he'd be voted back out ahead of Gerry, for example. Tonya probably thought she could slide right back in with Chiara/Roddy et. al. Amy would have thought she had protection with at least Marcellas. Only Lori might have had fears of being voted right back out. The evictees probably thought that each of their allies would want them back to strengthen their numbers, not that the houseguests would resent the whole idea and punish the evictee. |
Puckerbutt | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:56 pm     Whit - Just because ALL the houseguests knew of the operation didn't mean they would want the returning house guests to know. That was supposedly the plan. I would have no problem if she had gathered the information from one of the house guests in the temporary alliance who couldn't keep a secret. That would have been within the context of the "game". However, this information was time sensitive due to an upcoming HOH competition. You didn't see anyone greeting her at the door immediately spilling their guts and telling her of ORD did you? The producers took it upon themselves to tell her of this time sensitive information which could be deemed critical knowledge given the timing of events. |
Ryanc2002 | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:57 pm     It wasn't up to the houseguests to decide whether the returnee knew Pucker. |
Battlestar | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:59 pm     I'm sure all 4 of the hoping to return HG's were told exactly the same thing. If you want to stay for more then a week, you have to win HOH |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:59 pm     Geezus, knowing about Operation Revolving Door ISN'T just knowing that someone is going back in. Duh, everyone is entitled to know that. It's knowing that the houseguests are going to band together to immediately evict the returned evictee. Two very different things, the second not as much of a given as some people here seem to think. Why should any evictee be told that that's how the houseguests are going to respond to "the Twist"? Isn't the houseguests response part of the challenge of the game? |
Puckerbutt | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:02 pm     Ryan - You need to go back and read previous posts to see what this thread is about. It isn't about whether or not the return of a former house guest was common knowledge or not. It is whether or not the producers should have told the returning guests of the "ORD temporary alliance". (Using your "alliance" word to hopefully make my point my clearly) |
Ryanc2002 | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:04 pm     Did they say "You have to win HOH." or did they say "You have to win HOH, because everyone else is going to vote you out?" The two statements ARE different. |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:04 pm     If you want to deal in bottom lines: no evictee who might be returning should be told ANYTHING about actions and strategies of the people within the house. If they can't watch the show or feeds, why should the producers tell them what the remaining houseguests are plotting? You go back in into an UNKNOWN. That's the risk, that's the excitement. You don't go back in with instructions and recommendations from the producers. |
Whit4you | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:06 pm     Serena because BB gave THEM a chance to plot as a group without HER - by telling them in advance! IF they told them about it and she came walking in THAT day and THEN they plotted that'd be one thing but the minute they told them one of the HG's was coming back in the house it was public knowlegdge. The biggest problem I'm having here is that where was this outrage last year when the net was giving the HG's other HG's inside info via banners constantly???? Nobody could even whisper amongst themselves about something without a banne being flown the following day letting all the HG's know.. and now she's told something that ALL the other HG's knew and it's some horrible thing? What if she were told via a banner..would that be any different??? Where was the outrage when she was voted OUT because a HG was givin inside info about her? Where was the outrage over Josh getting inside info or them getting inside info on George and so on??? To me of all the inside info that HG's have gotten via banners and so on... compared to THAT her knowing something that ALL other HG's know ...seems tame! BB should have either given the returning HG immunity as has been done in the past OR not given the other HG's days to all gang up on that returning HG before they got back in ... this leveled the playing field a bit... and yes I would feel the same way about this no matter WHO the returning HG was..even if Rod had been voted out and this was him returning - I'd still feel he has the right to know what ALL the other HG's know - only those 100% opposed to banners flown in the past really have any right to disagree with me or they are being hypocritical. |
Puckerbutt | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:14 pm     Quote:and now she's told something that ALL the other HG's knew and it's some horrible thing?
If she was told information by the producers that directly changed her strategy relating to the BB "game", then yes, it was wrong. (To use your word "horrible" would be too strong) |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:15 pm     Houseguest coming back in = public knowledge, including evictees Current houseguests plotting against returnee = how is that knowledge evictees have the right to? Everyone in the house knows it, but it's not neutral knowledge. The TARGET contained within that knowledge is the evictee. Having the evictee know the plot undermines the plot and changes the course of the game. Surely you can see the difference between knowledge such as all the houseguests including the evictees knowing that they received a microwave, and knowledge of something that is a play in the game, with such knowledge by the target of the play by external means, undermining any semblance of fair competition. I totally agree with you about the HGs having the chance to plot. I said here that they should not have told the houseguests about the twist beforehand. It would have been far more dramatic to have it sprung on them and the person walk back in. I have a feeling the producers are ruing the fact now. |
Landi | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:29 pm     you guys are all fighting over something as simple as "you need to get HOH when you get in" like DUH! ANY EVICTEE would need to if you have half a brain to figure it out, or they would evict you again. ORD was not some great big master plan that noone couldn't figure out. That one statement applies to ANY of the houseguests, and would be a smart one for ANYONE (well except Tonya) would figure out if they came back into the house. Also, I'm sure the houseguests are well aware that "anything" can happen while they are in the house. This is Arnold Shapiro's show, NOT OURS. I've NEVER seen anywhere that says they CAN'T bring a houseguest back. Arnold can and will do anything to bring up his viewership. |
Ryn | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:29 pm     I just spent some time listening to AMy talk to Gerry on the live feeds..... She is talking about how "they" thought she would put R & C up The "THEY" are the HGs that were still in the tub with her, I think the way she refers to being filled in is most likely the fact that once she was left alone with everyone but R & C the other hgs filled her in on some of the goings on and that if she didn't win HoH she was supposed to be put up - so she "had to win" not saying she didn't get told something outside, but I think some of what people are infering as inside info was given to her during the HoH comp by her fellow HGs |
Goddess146 | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:33 pm     A lot depends upon what the producers told the other three. If Kent were permitted to talk to the three, we would proably learn the truth very quickly, but as you know..... I wonder if Kent's sudden banishment has anything to do with this? Where the heck is Ewing? |
Battlestar | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:34 pm     jason & Lisa told her about the revolving door and they got out of the tub when she said she was nominating R & C.????? |
Ryn | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:36 pm     As I said last night as the show ended after Roddy got out, the other HGs will let Amy win so they do not have to adhere to the "revolving door" agreement. The other hgs let amy win HoH because they thought she would nominate R & C - and as she said to Gerry a few minutes ago - that was her plan until she found out Roddy was nominated last week. |
Serena | Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:38 pm     if it's so obvious that the evictee is going to be evicted immediately again, why did the producers need to tell Amy? |