Archive through August 18, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: The Real Game: Roddy vs. Danielle:
Archive through August 18, 2002
Wendo | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 01:34 am     I brought this up in another thread (as well as seeing it in other threads) so I thought I'd start a topic about what I see that in the game at this point, it really is between Roddy vs. Danielle. Arguablely, they are two of the strongest and most visible players in the game. So, I thought it would be interesting to disect these two players and how they're playing in the game, as well as how it appears they are advesaries. So, post away, let's see where this thread goes... I'll start with one observation. They both seem to be aware of each others strength in the game. That the dance of winning is between the two of them at this point of the game. Secondly, while they are both playing hard to win, they are approaching the game differently. Danielle is utilizing a stong alliance (Jason) as well as loose alliances (Marcellas, Lisa - though she seems to be moving in closer); in addition, she uses information to get close to people who will help her advance in the game. Roddy, on the other hand, seems to rely on himself and his own ability to evaluate people individually and use what he finds in them to help him advance in the game. He seems to find their weaknesses, file them away, and then exploit them when needed. These are just some thoughts and I'm curious what others think about these two competitors. |
Snogrl | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 02:26 am     Well said Wendo, Roddy is just waking up to Danielle's power and it's probably too late. It's nice to finally see him feel threatened. He's good at sizing up a situation and I think he knows there is a better chance he is going than Chiara. He knows Danielle will vote against him, Marcellus will cancel her out, so that leaves Lisa, Jason and Gerry up for grabs. He doesn't seem so sure of himself anymore, and he is pi**ed. I look to him having late night mind f**k (I got that from you) sessions with whoever may be on the fence. After last week he does not feel safe. He felt smug for pretty much most of the game so far. That's a big difference in my opinion with Danielle. I know a lot of people on the board feel Danielle is just as manipulative; maybe so but I could care less because she is more straightforward with her alliances. Depending on the POV those alliances that have been in place for weeks may well get Roddy kicked out. |
Onlymytulips | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 03:23 am     Well hello, Lisa and Jason are locked in with Danielle. Who knows about Marcellas.....the wild card, we think he will be true to Amy, but ...he knows that Amy has changed her voting strategy. Gerry will vote for whats best for Gerry, if he thinks this out.....Roddy will be walking out for sure. Well, unless someone gets the veto and uses it! If there is a veto. |
Rod | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 05:00 am     Too true, Wendo. These are the two power mongers of the game. The difference, between the two, I think, is that Dani recognized immediately what Roddy was all about and started playing against him. He never could draw her in. Roddy on the other hand, practically ignored Dani in week 1 and never tried to bring her into any alliance. It was this factor that first brought Jason and Dani together that week. Roddy didn't realize Dan's game until just the past week or so. He knew she was holding out but he just couldn't quite figure it out. I think Roddy is great at perceiving others weaknesses and really taking advantage of them. But he is lousy at perceiving others strengthes. In his arrogance, I think that he just doesn't believe someone who only talks about movies and doesn't have his "intellectual prowess" (at least he doesn't think she does) could actually outmaneuver him. |
Floresmama | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 05:02 am     I agree that the real battle in the house is between these two. Shame on Roddy for taking so long to realize it. He should have realized his fate was in his own hands and not jumped out of the tub of goo so quickly. As they bid goodbye to him on Thursday he will only have his own arrogance to blame. You might or might not have noticed Danielle didn't get out of the the tub till she had a handle on what was going on. |
Eden | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 05:56 am     Roddy thought he had surrounded himself with such a strong alliance of numbers that he didn't have to worry about any opposing force in the game. He was so sure of his strategy that he even sacrificed his own allies. Roddy's biggest flaw was never thinking in terms of his opposition. No General can win being so oblivious of the "enemy". That's why he was blindsided by the Eric eviction and even after that was stupid enough to allow Chiara to sacrifice Josh and weaken himself by nominating him. Danielle was aware of Roddy and his alliance from the start. She's played a steady and patient game, gathering a loose alliance that has remained mostly cloaked, allowing them to "spy" on the other side. They both have manipulated. But Danielle manipulates people by showing them a plan that includes them in the end game, therefor empowering them too. Roddy manipulates to gather support strictly for himself, as if his allegiance should be enough benefit to satisfy anyone, without offering any long term plan for success. The people are in the house to win and Roddy just hasn't offered anyone a way to do it. |
Jan | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 05:58 am     well said eden! |
Fuzzybear | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:06 am     I was sure that it would be both of them at the end but Danielle is so good. She kept her eyes open and her mouth shut(LOL) Played quietly. NO ONE in the house saw her as a threat until the Fab 4 lost one their own and joshy too. The way she talks to people but at the same time suggests an idea and then that person in essence is making the decision on their own. She is not leaving a paper trail that is for sure. Roddy's style is so different. More of a 'come to me' and you will be safe. I didn't dislike roddy until the last two weeks and all I ever had to say about Dani is WOW! |
Eden | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:32 am     So true, Fuzzy, Danielle leads a conversation in a direction then allows the person to come to the conclusion she wants themselves, as if it is their idea, then she agrees immediately. I remember watching her work Gerry when they were first hoping to oust Roddy last week. It was a thing of beauty! |
Sassylady | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:39 am     Great thread Wendo! Roddy was blown away by Eric leaving. He has not been able to get his footing since. The 5-0 with Josh gave him a brief yet false since of security and he made the biggest blunder in his game--getting out of the tub. Roddy has said many times that Dani is either not playing enough or playing too much. What he didn't figure into that equation is that maybe Dani is playing just right. Roddy is playing for the final vote. Dani is playing for the week-to week vote. She works on the noms while they are on the block--i.e., pretending to be working with them to get them off the block. I can see Roddy's point to prep for the final 2 but Roddy you have to get their first dude. Dani is working to get to the final two and will worry about the final votes at that time. |
Firstsnadra1 | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:21 am     Danielle kept her alliances on track with the game. Always talking about the consequences of each kind of vote...and promising to "think about" the hg's point of views if they differed. I think Roddy's biggest mistake was surrounding himself with people who voted based on emotions and not strategy. Lisa, Eric, Chiara looked at who should go because they're annoying...not because they're a threat. example: getting rid of josh...did they forget he was on their team? oops! I really thought D-J-M-L made a huge blunder this past week in not eliminating Roddy. I was afraid they voted with their feelings instead of looking at the game. But somehow (with some help with amy coming back) they are maintaining their power while Roddy has consistently depleted his power. So while they're both good players...Danielle played for the long haul and Roddy played by himself. |
Glennknj | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:29 am     Roddy & Danielle are definitely the powers in the house and Danielle is playing it smarter, but Roddy did have the disadvantage of being thrown into an alliance that was never really strong and was known by all in the house. Roddy's group was already plotting what would happen when it got down to their six for Pete's sake. Then Josh's reaction to the girls voting for him instead of Tonya further splintered the group. The final straw was Roddy talking Chiara into betraying Lisa in favor of Eric. Danielle sees the importance of keeping alliances small and secret(she actually had 3 different alliances at the start) and allowing the particants to vote as expected. Jason was forced to show his hand when he had to vote for Eric, but that only made Danielle's team stronger with less need of secrecy. It will be interesting to see how she plays it from here. I suspect she will shy away from becoming HOH until the end, unless it is to prevent another from gaining it. |
Duchess | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:33 am     Rod, your last paragraph hit the nail on the head. Eden has made great points also. I couldn't agree with you more. This weeks' POV is the turning point that will decide the fate of BBs two most cunning players. I'm almost dreading Roddy's eviction and the eventual cessation of their fascinating duel, and nothing thereafter will compare because Roddy is Dani's nemesis and vice versa. While I love BB,or any reality show for that matter, it's predictable nature midgame can't be helped if the players are focused in winning the price and the only way to realize it is to eliminate an equally riveting challenger making the end game.. well, anti climactic. I'm not a Roddy fan and I can't believe I'm rationalizing his part in the house..what's happening to me???? |
Grannygrunt | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:39 am     You know the one thing about someone who thinks they "know-it-all" is that they really don't know squat.. |
Jaysgal | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:43 am     I'm so anxious to see the POV result. I am rooting so much for something that would rescue Roddy. I don't like Roddy, but I want to see him chase Danielle. I hope he points out her only strength is gossipping. I hope that he shows them how they are affected by a professional backbiter. If she had done this backbiting crap last week, I wouldn't have minded because it was Chiara who wrote her fate; and no one was obliged to keep the promise because Chiara devalued oaths when she failed to keep hers. However, now it is wrong. Danielle is the plain typical type of gossip I would watch out in my neighbourhood and would not like to live around. It makes me have flashbacks of Danielle look-alikes whose strengths were on backbiting and making people's lives miserable pretending to be caring mothers to attract their subjects. And then they target ordinary unsuspecting people by spreading rumours about them and making promises they didn't intend to keep. You know what always happens at the end? The ring leaders of gossipping always shame themselves eventually. All of their dirts are usually exposed. They fight and their group breaks up. That is just what is going to happen to Danielle. She will leave in shame. Sorry I sound very strong here, but that is how much I resent the rumour-mongering habit. I resent it immensely. So, please don't take it personal, as I am speaking within the confinement of the game. I am willing to bet that this is Danielle's true nature in real life. No one becomes a rumour-monger overnight or pretends to be in this context. Believe me, this is different from what Josh was doing. Josh's own was not professional rumour-mongering. |
Spree17 | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 07:59 am     People are on danni now and I think thats laughable. She has played the game from a strategic point of view from the start not a petty personal way. What has made roddy so honorable other than him telling everyone he is a good guy? Has he not back stabed anyone in the house? dani has stayed loyal so far to lisa and jason. roddy has backstabbed lori, tonya, amy. marcy, gerry,lisa, josh,jason,kiki, and now he finally wakes up and is going after danni. This man has taken shots at everyone. He always says they will be surprised at the tapes. He might think he has covered his tracks but the truth is he has only been loyal to himself and possibly eric although he didnt tell eric about his deal with gerry the week eric got nominated and eliminated. I'm sorry but I find kiki and roddy to be the worst because not only do they lie just like everyone else but they have some sort of selfrightous claim to be there at the end because they have played the game honestly. Yeah right. LOL |
Spunkydoo | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:04 am     Roddy vs. Danielle is comparable to a chess match. Both are the kings of opposite sides, and have played their strategies very differently, as stated in some of the previous posts. Roddy has sacrificed pieces of his army, the only problem is that he got nothing in return for their sacrifice. Dannielle has only strengthened her position, and now has Roddy in check. She is much better at maneuvering her pawns, and has done well by thinking ahead. Roddy could very soon be checkmated, and if not...he loses his queen (Chiara). |
Jaysgal | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:05 am     Spree17, you must not have seen my posts in the past. From day 1 of the show, I have been against Danielle for the same reasons that I have stated. I have also been against Roddy. But I would love to see Roddy get rid of Danielle first and then he can be taken care of. |
Gouraphik | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:11 am     OK. If D/L/J gets the POV, Roddy remains on the block. If Chiara gets it, he's off. If Amy, Marcellas, or Gerry get it, he can attempt to charm them into freeing him. But what if Roddy happens to win it? Imagine the following scenario: Roddy frees Chiara, in order to free up her vote for Wednesday, and to make himself look good come the end vote. Amy will be upset, but he'll just charm her into submission. Prior to the POV meeting, Roddy convinces Amy to put up a member of the D/L/J alliance. This way, one of their votes will be tied up, giving Roddy a potential 3-2 vote in his favor. This could also work if Gerry was up, but it would obviously be best if D/L/J's hands were tied a bit. Roddy lobbies hard against any of them, but pulls out all the stops if Danielle ends up being the replacement nom. Danielle has never been on the block, and everybody on it (including Roddy) has been affected by it. It's a stressful event. In this situation, it would be possible for Danielle to become unhinged (not like Josh, but on edge nonetheless) and annoy Marcellas and Gerry. Perhaps Lisa would also decide to axe Dani. End result: Roddy lives and Dani's out, or at least weakened. I don't know if this will happen, but if Roddy ends up with the POV, he might orchestrate something like this. |
Mollywood | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:12 am     I think its almost an even battle. he has played the game in a neon suit, and still tried to have everyone like him, assuring them when they see how nice he was in dr. i always felt it was too much to work on a double track, while Danielle slowly built a certain amount of trust. and quietly showed the others who their real opponent was, not letting them think she might be the real opponent..i see it as the charming,near do well dad, that all the kids like the best, until they grow up and see the real strength was mom (danielle) i think in the end of the game shell earn their vote thru respect for how she played the game. |
Eden | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:13 am     Funny, I don't see Danielle as a rumormonger. Seems to me she has actually done less personal backbiting than most. Roddy and Chiara seem to be more like the "person in the neighborhood" you describe. That, to me, is Roddy's greatest weakness, thinking personally and not strategically. Danielle doesn't feel the need to vilify someone as a reason to vote them out, because she thinks everyone should go except herself and the person of her choice sitting next to her! Danielle does lead people to strategic conclusions. I can't fault her for playing the game well. As to lying to Amy, I can't see how you can win this game without lying sometime. And this lie won't hurt Amy's standing in the game. It might hurt her feelings cause she wanted to have Roddy to herself for a time but, well... that's not a great reason to keep anyone; especially a player as potentially dangerous as Roddy. |
Shrike3000 | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:19 am     I agree, I think Dani is probably the best person ever to play this game, so far. Some people seem to really not like her because of all the lying and backstabbing, but that is what the game is. Jason is my favorite for sure, but there is no way he would be where he is without Dani carrying out the "dark" stuff. They are a great team, and she is playing a marvelous game. I also do not blame Roddy for the game he is playing, in alot of aspects he is VERY good. He is a true word manipulator, and he is better at hitting peoples emotions. I personally do not like him very much, not for how he is playing the game, but because he talks down to people so much. If his opinoin of himself was not so inflated, he would have seen Dani coming. |
Jan | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:20 am     yes eden and Dani is the one who has said a couple of times that she doesn't care what anyone said about her behind her back or in the DR. SHe said it is all in the game and she will take nothing personally once she is out of there. She knows that this is a game and everything and anything goes. All is fair and all that stuff |
Ravenest | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:31 am     Please! Give me a break here...why on earth is it o.k. for Dani to lie to Amy? When Chiara was HOH and put up Josh and Roddy and had everyone give their "word", they didn't remove Roddy. IMO, they missed a perfect opportunity. I hope the VETO competition changes some things up considerably. Or at least there are some HGs who start figuring out that if they are siding with Danielle that they can hope AT BEST for below 2nd-3rd place. I'm just waiting for someone besides Roddy to figure this out. |
Jaysgal | Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 08:36 am     Gouraphik, funny that I thought of those many scenarios. Roddy has plenty of chance. The only misfortune here is, it seems more likely than not that most house guests are not thinking like we are. Roddy has too many possible scenarios that would still produce the outcome he wants. In the event of for instance the one you mentioned, Roddy would have gained back his member and gotten rid of Danielle or Jason or Lisa or even Gerry (less likely). Amy's decision, I could understand, but did she ever pause to think that if she put Roddy and Chiara up, Roddy could still save Chiara? And what if that happened, she would end up not getting what she wanted and she would still have to put up someone she probably didn't want to. Or is she going to put up her friend Marcellas? What happens then? Roddy's gained one vote in his favour. Roddy can easily talk Marcellas and Gerry into voting out the other person put up. |
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