K - How bad does it blow to be Eric tonight?
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Archive through August 15, 2002 25   08/15 11:46pm

Becca

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 12:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
There are a lot of differences. Chiara promised to vote Eric out. Lisa and Eric both stated that they knew they'd have to go against each other.

Eric was evicted on his own, and in my opinion really didn't deserve a chance.

I think we have to look at the reasons why both were doing it. Chiara did it because her boyfriend Roddy wanted her to, and because she felt she was suppose to be the only girl in the house. Come on, Chiara knew Lisa was no threat to her. Lisaa did it because she knew that Eric wouldn't last long, and he was a major liablity.

I think the main thing is that Lisa and Chiara had the girls agreement, while Lisa and Eric did not have a final two agreement. I also think that LIsa knew Eric would blindly trust Roddy and get evicted quickly, with her soon as well. Yet, now she has a much better chance of lasting.

Wendo

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Margie said: "Wendo, if lies were a reason to break alliances, no one in the house would be in an alliance."

Yes, lies do exist in the game. But, when you get caught, you get busted. The point is to lie and not get caught. Make sure if you're going to lie that the result is beneficial to you. And, if it does end up backfiring, then fess right up. Chiara made her mistake by not talking to Lisa immediately. If Chiara had been honest with Lisa and told her immediately that she did vote to evict her, it wouldn't have given Danielle an easy in.

"Lisa was offended that Chiara voted against her -- the lie was just an easy excuse. Chiara probably realized she didn't have a good reason to vote Lisa out and was steppin and fetchin trying to come up with something. Wrong? You bet - both in terms of friendship and strategy."

Yes, she was offended that Chiara lied. Because she did say to her, I have your back. Not during the week, but definitely before. However, Lisa's just as pissed that Chiara tried to continue the lie. By saying she knew what the vote was going to be etc.

"Lisa did the exact same thing. Wrong again? You bet. Again both in terms of friendship (though this friendship *seemed* to be closer) and strategy."

Um, no, Lisa did not do the same thing. She never promised Eric that she would vote to have him back in the house. They didn't know first of all, so no promise to be made. And, since no promise was made, no promise can be broken. They are completely two different situations. You can try and make them the same, but I disagree. How did Lisa lie to Eric? What promise did she make? How has she "betrayed" him? There are no answers to these questions because these questions simply do not exist.

"Each thought it was to their benefit and each betrayed their best friend in the house."

As I've argued, I do not believe Lisa has betrayed Eric. There was no promise nor any covenent to be broken. Yes, it was to Lisa's benefit to vote against Eric, but it was not a betrayal.

"I think you're wrong on the last point, there was *something* to betray, though there probably isn't anymore. Lisa not only risked her time in the house (you know the HGs will use this against her) she risked her time outside of the house with Eric."

What was there to betray? What promise? I ask you to list it here. We already know that Eric had no plans to be loyal to Lisa, why should Lisa be loyal to him when their was no promise to be loyal. While I appreciate your argument, it has no weight since there are no facts to back it up. If Lisa had a promise to Eric to vote him in or some such, then I would agree. But since it didn't exist, there was nothing betrayed.

Eden

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If Eric had returned he would have expected Lisa to align herself with HIS allies and she no longer felt any allegiance to Roddy or Chiara. He would have wanted her to play HIS game, not her own. She would have put a big ole bullseye on her back for no reason other than to appease Eric. Lisa has learned from experience that being a part of a couple is a liability in this game. Plenty of time for romance when the game is over.

To all those that say Lisa betrayed Eric: do you always defer to your significant other and let them win when you play a game together? Is this situation different? Lisa should play her own game. If Eric doesn't understand that then they never had anything real to worry about losing.

Marksman

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 06:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eric coming back in the house would have done nothing to help build Eric and Lisa's personal relationship. And it could have actually served to hinder it. Lisa knew it would screw up her game, and potentially their relationship if Eric came back in.

Of course if Lisa knew her vote would not have mattered, she probably would have voted to keep Eric in just to save herself the explanation. But I think Eric will understand why she did what she did.

Margie

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, Chiara had an alliance with both Eric and Lisa. When they were both up against eachother she had to vote for someone. Either way she was going to betray an alliance. You're making a heirarchy of alliances here. She voted against Lisa because through some stretch of the imagination she thought it would be better for her to keep Eric in the house.

Lisa had had no alliance or implied loyalty towards Amy. She had an alliance and loyalty towards Eric. She broke the alliance and the loyalty when she chose Amy over Eric. Not only was it wrong, it was just plain dumb. If she had counted the votes she would have realized Amy was coming back no matter which way she voted and she could have thrown her vote to Eric without consequence.

As soon as they announced that the HGs were going to vote for them to come back in I knew Amy was back, she should have too. It was a dumb move. When the HGs start to consider putting her up they're going to use her vote against Eric as a reason not to trust her. This has happened in BB1,2 and now 3. They're just looking for a reason to put someone up and now she handed it to them on a silver platter.

Wendo said: "What was there to betray?"

Umm, maybe their budding relationship. If she betrays him this early on there is no hope for a future between them.

Eden, Heck no I don't defer to my hubby to win Monopoly let alone 500 grand especially before we were even married! But if one person was coming back and I had to choose between him and Amy, he's in every time.

If Amy wins BB3 Eric will not understand.

Crazydog

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Margie. I know many of you are happy that Lisa is playing the game, but I am horribly disappointed in Lisa's vote. When it came down to a vote between Amy and Eric, it should have been obvious to everyone that Amy would re-enter the house. Even Eric knew it. I felt bad for him that he had to sit there knowing there was zero chance of walking back in.

Lisa should have known that and the least she could have done is to support her boyfriend and show him on live national TV that she really does care for him. And if by some chance both Lisa and Jason would have voted for Eric, Eric would return and there would be a five person alliance and she's in a good position. If Jason votes for Amy, it is still a 4-3 vote for Amy. As far as Dani finding out how Lisa voted and thinking Lisa betrayed her, all Lisa could have done was say, I was really torn, but I knew that Amy would have four votes and I just wanted to give Eric a sign that I care. I think Dani would have understood.

I hope that Eric will understand but right now if I were him I'd be pissed. He's got six weeks on the outside and I'm sure plenty of women will be interested in him. At least Lisa could have mouthed, "I'm sorry" as she voted. She should do a Nicole and just talk to the cameras and tell Eric how sorry she is and how much her heart wanted him back but she did it for strategy.

Max

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eric will understand anything and everything if Lisa wins $500K. :)

Bbnan

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Many people have already said this..in so many words...but why is Lisa expected to sacrifice herself for Eric? Eric's allies are those who voted her out. Not only that, but even if Eric had come in, their clique would still be out-numbered.

I'm ready for some girl-power myself! Men have won the last two BB. A woman should win this time.

I guess there is some truth to the old saying: Women like to be around men, and men like to be around men.

Minnyace01

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
There is now no chance of Eric ever getting back together with Lisa. She has no excuse for not wanting him to get back in the house and he will never forget that. Lisa will strike out in the game and will find that Eric will not be there for her. He will be with his 2 friends - Roddy and Chiara. That will teach her a pretty harsh lesson on loyalty to someone.

Crazydog

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
BBnan, I never said that Lisa should sacrifice herself for Eric. What I said was that since there was a 95% certainty that Lisa's vote was meaningless that she could have shown Eric that she cares about him. It would have been a reaffirmation of their relationship. If by some chance Eric comes back, then it shows that there is support for Eric's alliance in the house and that his alliance is the dominant one. She would have been a part of that.

If Lisa had voted for Eric and Eric still didn't come back I don't think that would be viewed as a betrayal of Dani. I think Lisa could have explained it as I have, that she knew her vote was meaningless as far as who was coming back and she wanted to show Eric he has her heart.

Dfwteddy

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Margie: I agree with much of what you wrote except -- "If she [Lisa] had counted the votes she would have realized Amy was coming back no matter which way she voted and she could have thrown her vote to Eric without consequence."

Of the seven votes to be cast, Amy was almost certain to get Marc, Dani and Gerry; Eric was almost certain to get Roddy and Chiara. That left two votes to swing the competition. In a split moment, when the voting was sprung on them on live TV and she had no opportunity to gauge even the facial expressions of others, how could she be sure how Jason would vote? Would he stick by his earlier vote to evict Eric or his vote to evict Amy? For voting against Eric, Jason was taken out back for a switchin' by Roddy and has done a week of mea culpa with Chiara. I'm sure in the fog of that moment, she was uncertain enough of Jason's vote and had to make the vote so quickly without much thought, that to ensure her continued focus on the game she felt she had to vote for Amy.

JMHO

Crazydog

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Dfwteddy, I agree that she was uncertain of Jason's vote. But if Jason had voted to bring Eric back, it would have signalled that he wanted to join the Roddy/Chiara/Eric alliance. If Lisa had also voted to do so, they would have had a superior numbers advantage, with five versus three. If Eric doesn't come back, oh well, she tried, and she is still in the Dani alliance. She was in a good position either way as far as game strategy goes. But as far as strategy in her personal life, I think she has blown it.

Dallasbbfan

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I can't wait to see Lisa DR entry tonight! I'm sure Eric understands. She was visibly upset about it on the live feeds.

Nutsy

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'd like to have a feed at the firehouse when Eric returns! And you're right Goddessatlaw - I think he better have a few coworkers around for the fireworks that are sure to spark when he sees his girly back home!

Margie

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Dfwteddy, great point there, but I knew Jason was going to vote for Amy because he's part of the Danielle alliance and doesn't want Roddy to get any stronger. It would have been silly for him to vote Eric back in just to try and knock one of them off again.

The only vote that surprised me last night was Lisa's. :(

The only way I think Eric will be ok with it is if Lisa takes the 500k, if Amy wins it Lisa's toast. LOL

Azriel

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Minnyace, I don't think Lisa will be too upset that she lost Eric once she sees his famous 'I'll vote Lisa out when I have to because after I get out I'll still get laid' line.

I think she started adding things that Eric did and said together after he left the house and she didn't like what she was seeing so her instincts told her to stick up for herself. I'm glad she did.

Minnyace01

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Azriel - If that's the case, but I'm not sure that it is, I agree with you 100%.

Eden

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 10:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Margie, would you take back your partner if you thought it would make you lose the game? That's the point. Lisa didn't see a way of winning if Eric reentered the house. Someone said they could come up with a plan together but I didn't see Eric as much of a planner. Roddy did all the strategizing. I think Eric would have supported Roddy, not Lisa, had he returned. I don't see her as being disloyal just because she is playing this game to win.

As to Lisa being aware of Jason's loyalty to Danielle. I don't think she is. Remember, last week Jason was adamant that he wouldn't vote for Roddy. Lisa was in la la romance land for most of the game and not real aware of what was going on in the house. WE, as viewers, know he is loyal to Danielle, I don't know how clear that alliance is to people in the house. Jason is purposefully ambiguous.

I'm sure Eric is disappointed but it shouldn't be in Lisa. He planned to play his game regardless of her, how can he complain when she does the same thing?

Millymoe

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 11:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
First time poster here so go easy on me...

What IF... Lisa has had time to rethink her feelings for Eric and realizes that because of the 24/7 togetherness things just got carried away too quickly?
What IF... she now isn't so sure their feelings are genuine, and might just have been pent up sexual frustration?
What IF... that's really why she didn't vote for him to come back, since the pheromones have dissapated and she's started to think clearly.

Just a few What IFs :o)

Alegria

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 02:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Milly, welcome (I'm not a frequent poster either, yet) those are good whatif's :)

Whit4you

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 05:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Eric clearly stated (after his 'for now' flub which woulda been more forgiven...) that he would rather HIMSELF be in the house then Lisa... now if he were to turn around and have a problem with Lisa feeling the same way when they (as a couple) have a better chance at this point of winning 500 g's with HER staying in then had HE returned at this point...

basically it's like this - I saw them together they were geniune and have some real feelings... the last night she talked about how adorable his children would be...he looked at her and asked her if she'd like to help with that...(making the children) - he's a smart man.. and he knows she's trying to win for the BOTH of them.. he was willing to give up HALF of it to get back in the house.. this way he has a chance of getting HALF of it by being her guy when this is over should they win.

She did the right thing - and he should know that if he don't then they shouldn't be together in the FIRST place.