Archive through August 12, 2002
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Atheist Roddy playing the game (ARCHIVE):
Archive through August 12, 2002
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:40 pm     I gotta add....I, too, think of Roddy as a bit of a pompous know-it-all, yet I still like him. He's pretty and he amuses me. :-) |
Twiggyish | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:41 pm     Ok, I'm going to bed, too. It's almost 2:00 here. |
Moedog | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:42 pm     Sweet dreams, Sanfran. LOL! |
Moedog | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:43 pm     G'night, Twiggyish, g'night all! Sleep well... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:48 pm     "But San, do you see the irony of this thread? It wasn't really about Roddy. I don't care if he reads the Bible or not." You mean the attribution of behavior and traits to Roddy because he does not believe in god versus the same issues with Jason because he is a Christian? If that's what you mean, I still see a great difference. There are a million definitions and ideas of what constitutes a Christian and what behaviors and acts are acceptable for that faith, so that makes it impossible to ever actually define Jason's game playing within his own particular view of Christianity. But it's different with Roddy...there is NO belief system to attribute to his lack of belief in god. |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:48 pm     San Fran wrote: <But when it comes to atheism there is one simple definition> well, I don't think I can buy into that. There are secular atheists, humanist atheists, naturalists, metaphysical naturalists, skeptics and the latest and greatest brand of atheism: Atheists for Jesus. I think a more apt description is that like Christianity, there is an underlying common belief (or nonbelief in the case of atheists); but there's a great deal of group splintering and differing interpretation going on under that main heading. So, Christians have the main belief that Christ is the son of God. Atheists don't believe in God. But under each of those two headings are multitudes of subgroups that have divided according to how they define their worldview from there. At least that's how I see it.  |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:51 pm     Ahhh Karuuna, I was hoping somebody would come in this thread and show me that I was right the first time and that my agreement was based on incomplete information. Thanks! |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:54 pm     LOL, Wcv. Ur welcome, I think. Should I post the code of behavior for secular humanists? They have about ten points in their credo for appropriate behavior. (funny how they chose the number ten....) Oh, and the Atheists Alliance have a similar list... |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:55 pm     Karuuna - These are the defintions of "atheist". If some groups of people have started different clubs over NOT believing in god, it does not change the fact that being an "atheist" does not come with rules, commandments, or rituals. NO "atheist" can believe in god, or they are not atheists at all. 3 entries found for atheist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ a·the·ist Pronunciation Key (th-st) n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ atheist \A"the*ist, n. [Gr. ? without god; 'a priv. + ? god: cf. F. ath['e]iste.] 1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being. 2. A godless person. [Obs.] Syn: Infidel; unbeliever. Note: See Infidel. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ atheist adj : related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings" [syn: atheistic, atheistical] n : someone who denies the existence of god Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:58 pm     SanFran you just want to go to bed with the knowledge that you have a convert to your way of thinking! LOL... |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:03 pm     Karuuna - "LOL, Wcv. Ur welcome, I think. Should I post the code of behavior for secular humanists? They have about ten points in their credo for appropriate behavior. (funny how they chose the number ten....) Oh, and the Atheists Alliance have a similar list..." Okay....if Roddy claimed to be a "secular humanist" or a member of the "Atheist Alliance"....then I would say that he may have some rules to follow. But Roddy said that he did not believe in god and/or religion and/or supernatural mumbo jumbo. That does NOT mean that you can assume that he has joined club for it. An "atheist" is someone that does not believe in god. There may be clubs formed about it, but it is not a religion. The simple lack of a belief in god is being an "atheist"...club rules or no club rules. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:07 pm     I guess my point is really that you don't have to disbelieve in god in any organized way of any kind at all to be a "devout atheist". All non believers in god, no matter what rules they apply to themselves (or don't) are still "atheists". If you do not believe in god you are representing the core belief that defines the word "atheist". (You're right Wcv63! <yawwn>) :-) |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:10 pm     SanFran, I guess the way I see it is just as the definition of a Christian is someone who believes in or follows the teachings of Christ -- your definitions of atheism are the same to me. And under the heading of atheists still come many different sects and types of atheists. You can even be categorized by how you come to be an atheist - positively or negatively. Ie, like Roddy, you studied many of the other alternatives, and came to your conclusion - that would be positive atheism. Or, you can just decide you don't believe or not think much about it at all, that would be negative atheism. Even most Buddhists are atheists, and that certainly comes with a highly defined code of behavior. One can't agree on the "beliefs" that define an atheist, any more than one can define the particular set of beliefs that come with any one person that calls hermself Christian. The only thing one needs to believe to be called a Christian is that Christ is the son of God. The rest of the code of behavior (or none at all) is completely up for grabs; and is defined by the particular sect of Christianity you adhere to. The same thing can be said of atheism. There is only one defining belief - that there is no God, and the rest of the code of behavior (or none at all) is dependent on your "brand" of atheism. At least that's what I've garnered from all the years I've spent discussing these topics with various Buddhists, Christians and atheists. Your Mileage May Vary.  |
Jane_Bond | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:12 pm     To attribute the shaping of Jason's personality and subsequent behaviour to being Christian is rubbish! Equally true of Roddy and his beliefs. There are as many pedofiles, liars, wife-beaters, child abusers and addicts, to name but a few, who claim they are Christians as there are who are Atheists. I would even argue, as a logic exercise, that there would likely be less horrid people as Atheists than Christians as Atheism is a belief that is chosen and Christianity is taught from birth. But, it'd be a flimsy argument. Perhaps I could steer this thread in a slightly different direction with this thought I've often had: As an atheist I do not believe in God or any supreme being, however, the more I learn about the universe, the more it seems that the universe is created. Strange, eh? |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:13 pm     I've come to the conclusion that I'm far too impressionable. I read one of SanFran's posts and say, "Yeah..okay, I agree with that. I understand." Then I read one of Karuuna's and say, "Yeah..okay, I agree with that. I understand." Since Karuuna posted last she's ahead. |
Jane_Bond | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:16 pm     Karuuna, I may agree with the "teachings of Christ" as I think that Christ was basically a humanist, but that would never in a million years make a Christian out of me. Christ wasn't the only or first fella to have been attributed those teachings. Christians have one sigle belief that unite them: that Christ was the son of God. (Their belief in God follows from this belief and their further belief in interpretations of his teachings is a choice that each individual makes) |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:18 pm     LOL Wc Thanks for the smile. |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:18 pm     LOL, Wcv. I think I'll quit now then and let SanFran post again and win. I have an early flight to catch! SanFran, you're up! But in some ways I think we're saying the same thing. Just cause one is an atheist, doesn't mean it comes with any code of ethics. Altho, in practice, most atheists DO have one, they just don't derive it from a religious basis. And most of them have gone to some effort to establish just such a code. And the same goes for Christians. Just cause you say you are one, doesn't mean you have a particular code of ethics. I think that's where you and I split off. I'm saying that both Christians and atheists start at the same place (one fundamental belief); and sect away from there. At least that's what I think I"m saying... |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:22 pm     Interesting Karuuna. I have been an atheist for 20 to 25 years or so....I've never heard of any of that. Guess I am a "classic" atheist....I believ in the concept but not the club. :-) But really, I don't understand how a lack of belief can be categorized....either you believe in god or you don't. Referring to oneself as simply "an atheist" has NEVER come with expectations of behavior or other beliefs as far as I know. I also don't believe in Santa Claus, so does that make me a member of NonClausaholics Anonymous? Since I don't believe in the Easter bunny do I need to join the E-Bunny Denial Society? It's amazing how some people think that you must form a group to not believe in something. Atheism is the simple LACK OF BELIEF in god. If you are in a special group with rules of behavior, that is a seperate belief system that you have added onto your lack of belief in god. |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:24 pm     Okay then if we apply this same standard to Jason then I think we have a deal SanFran and you can go to bed happy. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:26 pm     G'night everybody! Time to crawl into bed, say my prayers and go to sleep! LOL |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:27 pm     G'night SanFran! |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:28 pm     PS Wcv - yeah a "deal"....maybe between the the 3 or 4 of us here....I doubt the couple thousand posters in the "other" thread would shake on it! LOL G'night for real this time...it's been fun! |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:33 pm     JaneBond..didn't mean to ignore your contributions. I agreed with your posts too! I'm equal opportunity impressionable on this thread! Thanks Kearie!  |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:39 pm     I want to add something to what Kar said. In my opinion a person can be taught to believe Christ is God's son, as you stated, but I don't think it is merely the belief of this that is the commonality of Christians. For we can be taught to believe this. I was taught Eli Whitney created the cotton gin. And I can believe he did. Jane said that "...Atheism is a belief that is chosen and Christianity is taught from birth. " I believe Christianity is a choice also. It envolves one step of action. Which is where MY definition of Christianity is. Like Kar, this means in my opinion, there is just one definition of a Christian...which includes a faith statement and an action. One action. Christian--proper noun...A person who accepts Christ as the Son of God and as his personal Savior. I'm not talking about what Jesus taught or what the Bible teaches or how any religion interpretes the Bible or Christ's teachings. I am talking about one belief/action of blind faith. Without accepting Christ as one's personal Savior, one is not a Christian. (In my personal definition) In this definition, Christianity is also a Choice that each individual has to make. Aethiests all subscribe to the idea that there is no god. Christians believe Christ is the Son of God and have accepted Christ as their Savior. |
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