Archive through August 11, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three:
Christian Jason Playing the Game:
Archive through August 11, 2002
Reader234 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:52 pm     OK I must admit that this thread has become just as addicting as anything BB3 has shown thus far!! I cant wait to come and see what, and how things are being discussed! (and I admire how the posters do keep coming back on topic! Truly amazing!!) Thank you for keeping such a lively discussion continuing, in the best manners possible!! (and sanfran as to your last line roflol!! or hmmm no I dont think anything humorously typed would be taken in the spirit I'm thinking!!) |
Mollywood | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:53 pm     didn't Josh say, only he could identify with M. and D. because he was jewish? |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:55 pm     Karuuna - "Some Christians believe that their brand of Christianity is truly the only way to live right. So that they want everyone to live that way, is to say that they have a genuine concern that everyone live right." ....but that couldn't possibly be more arrogant. |
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:56 pm     "Kinda" arrogant I agree with completely. Our opinions and philosophies are important to each of us, and I think there is somewhat of an arrogance as to having pride in maintaining our convictions. I'm glad you used "kinda" as a qualifier, Karuuna. OOPS, I forgot to stay on topic! Editing this post to include that I think Jason is playing the game well according to his own sense of ethics and morality. |
Wendo | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:56 pm     Zeyna, I don't think Josh thinks Gerry is a Nazi. He was pissed off at Gerry and lashed out. Unfortunately, he chose a loaded and distasteful term (Nazi) that was bound to have ramifications. (In addition, he said it to everybody, even Gerry.) One has to choose their words carefully in this game as well as who they tell them to. Because they can come back to haunt you down the road. (I would say that this is what's happening to Josh now.) Regarding Danielle, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I do think the terms she's using does help her in the game. But the difference with her is who's she's using them withy. As someone wrote, referring to "God, Devil, Evil" currys favor with Gerry, and maybe Jason, because of their stated religious beliefs. Another difference is her delivery, when compare to Josh. When Josh blurts out Nazi, it sounds rather hateful. I don't believe he THINKS Gerry is a Nazi, but you can see he visibly doesn't LIKE Gerry. I would say he hates him to a degree. However, with Dani, her delivery of devil and evil don't carry the sense of HATE behind them. As far as you making a judgement on the HG's for what they're saying, by all means feel free. I don't think my post said you couldn't. All I was stating was an opposing opinion and a possible theory about Danielle. |
Rolandcat | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:57 pm     When did religion obtain exclusive rights to ETHICS? I think of "good" and "bad" in terms of ethical behavior not belief in God/Christ. Just my two cents. |
Rain | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:01 pm     I find this whole thread pretty offensive. I'm not a practicing Christian, but I do notice a lot of what I would consider Christian bashing on here. You wouldn't start a thread "Jewish Josh.." and proceed to bash Jews, would you? (I hope not) You wouldn't start a thread "black Dannny...." and proceed to bash blacks, would you? You wouldn't start a thread "Gay Marcellus playing the game.." and proceed to bash gays, would you? You wouldn't start a thread "Atheist Roddy playing the game" would you? Or at least I hope you wouldn't. Recently I've been chastised for bashing Chiara too much, and on thinking about it, I think the moderators were right to keep the criticism at a non-bashing level, because these individuals are human beings that, even if they don't always respect themselves, we need to respect. How about a little respect for Christians? There is another thread also by a poster who obviously had an agenda. I am dissapointed that the moderators don't demand the same kind of respect for someone's religion as they do general respect of the hgs. Well, you can flame me if you want, but I'll stand by what I said. This bashing may have a place, perhaps in a political board, but it only leaves a bad impression in a forum like this. |
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:04 pm     psst... it's a self-professed Christian who began this thread, Rain. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:08 pm     I have found this thread entirely respectful. I agree that the original post had an agenda.....to present her particualar views and to use this forum as a pulpit. Surprisingly, it has become a very interesting and remained entirely civil and relatively on topic. We live in a country whose politicians inject their religious faith into the laws that all of us must live by (even us atheists) so I don't see why discussing a game in the context of a particular faith is offensive. I'd bet that Jason would even approve of this thread. |
Drpepper | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:09 pm     Rain , PERFECTLY SAID! |
Zeyna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:12 pm     Wendo, I didn't mean to suggest that you said anything about me or anyone else making judgments. Just saying that not everything can be attributed to playing a game. In the end, maybe not all, but certainly some parts of the HG true personalities are exhibited. I guess I'm still under the delusion that one doesn't need to be mean and hateful in order to win the game. Does Dani HAVE to say such things to sway Gerry - personally, I don't think so. |
Rain | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:13 pm     It doesn't impress me at all that a so-called self-professed Christian started this thread. Lots of people don't respect themselves, and bash themselves or others like them. Gays bash gays, blacks bash blacks, Jews bash Jews. That doesn't mean it has to be supported by a group, especially considering that intolerance against Christians on the Web is rampant and widespread. I will have no part in spreading that intolerance, and I think it is somewhat hypocritical to think its not okay to severely criticize houseguests for their behavior, yet condone bashing of someone because of their cultural heritage (of which religion is a part). Tolerance works all ways. I'm getting off the soapbox, but its something to think about. |
Battlestar | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:14 pm     ---My daughter has a friend who is a Christian and one day I heard her in the back seat of the car telling my daughter that Catholics are no better then pagans because they can't pray to God, that they have to go through Saints and statues and that was no better then worshiping the devil because it is worshipping an idol. This was not a child speaking, but a 17 year old whose father is a minister of a mainstream Protestant church. |
Jhezzie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:14 pm     I agree that this thread has moved along in an orderly, entertaining and intelligent manner. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:16 pm     Sanfran wrote: <....but that couldn't possibly be more arrogant. > I guess it's all in your perspective. If I found a really great food dish, I'd want to share it with other folks. Some folks find a really great drug, and want their friends to try it. Someone reads a great book that was life-changing for them, and wants other people to read it. How many times have I had someone to say to me: you HAVE to (fill in the blank - read this book, see this movie, blah blah blah). I don't think they're arrogant; just well-meaning, and not very conscious of the words they choose. After all, I don't HAVE to do anything. (Can you tell I'm stuck in teenage rebellion? Some day, I'm really going to HAVE to grow up!) None of those things are taken to be terribly arrogant by most people. But if you say "I found a really great way to live in Jesus", people immediately start looking at you funny and backing away slowly. The point of view itself is not necessarily arrogant, until you try to force it on someone--the key word being force. Just the same way as if someone drags you to the movie you don't want to see, or forks up a food dish and tries to shove it in your face. But if someone is just talking about it, it's no more obnoxious to me than someone going on and on about the latest Austin Powers flick, and how I have to see it. And the idea of seeing an Austin Powers flick is anathema to me! But we've developed a testiness about talking about faith. That's understandable, cause a few folks have given faith discussions a bad name, by trying to shove them down your throat. Personally I don't see Dani's comment about he needs to find Jesus much more offensive than my own screaming at the RealPlayer window - oh, for goodness sake, will y'all just grow up????  |
Bridgetlovesbb | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:18 pm     Sanfranjoshfan, First of all let me say i agree that I dont believe either that "god is up there giving him a point spread." (jason) and dont EVEN get me started on Dr Laura! UGH! HOW is she still on the air!! Ok now, you said <<when I lived in San Diego, we used to get Jehovah's Witnesses all the time. I live in San Francisco now with a security gate....but even now once every couple of years I answer the buzzer and there are 2 people that want to talk about jesus or something. A couple of years ago, at a gay street fair a group of young people were handing out flyers. As I walked by, I took one and it was "Jesus will save you from your sinful life" propaganda. I continued walking and tore the flyer in half and dropped the flyer in the trash can a few feet away. One of the "Christians" saw me and ran up to me SCREAMING at me with her finger in my face yelling "YOU BETTER NOT TEAR THAT UP.....GOD WILL TEAR YOU UP!!" >> I can guarantee you that the people handing out flyers and running up to you saying those things were NOT Jehovah's Witnesses. (if you thought they may have been) Take it from one, we don't witness that way. I don't judge people. Who am I to say who will have everlasting life? God only knows that. I know what it is like to be judged. So many people have misconceptions of Jehovah's Witnesses and I would hate to judge someone out of lack of knowledge as some do me. I DO witness to people but not ONCE have I or any other witness I know run after someone, stuck my foot in a door, or forced someone to listen. Its as simple as "Thank you for your time and have a great day!" Anyway, thats all i wanted to say so Thank you for your time and have a great day! LOL =0) |
Gina8642 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:24 pm     I have huge, large, immense, very big, humongous, respect for Christians and most all large organized religions. Following the path of organized religion, Christian and otherwise, is one way for an individual to find a path to live a 'good' ethical life. What I don't like, and I have brought up here, is that some religious people (by no means only Christian, recent world events prove my point) think their religion is the only true way to be a 'good' person. That's baloney!! It is especially bothersome when those people, who claim they have the one true, right way to do it, continuously break the tenets of their own beliefs. Any yet, they act like those not of their religion are the really 'bad' people. When the only sin of those 'bad' people is not stating they agree with the existence of religious person's god. And those 'bad' people actually do a better job than the 'good, organized religion person' follow the ethics of that person's religion. That is when an organized religious person is a hypocrite. Dani has done this. Not to some horrible degree, but she has done it a little bit. Jason hasn't done this, at least not as far as I have seen. This is not bashing in my opinion, but is just my opinion, and one I think I can express in this country. |
Maris | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:28 pm     Actually Rain, very early on in this thread I did say Jewish Josh playing the game which included a discussion of him not observing Kosher.I dont see this as a bashing of Christianity, It has evolved into a discussion about someone using their religion belief (and it could be fill in the blank) as a basis from which they feel superior to anyone who does not follow Jesus. I feel 100% sure taht most Christians do not follow this view. Jason is a case in point. He is someone who obviously has a very deep faith but he doesnt think that having a deep faith makes him superior to anyone, it is just who he is. This is not a generalization of all christians, even using the term Christian we are being very loose since Christianity encompasses many different faiths. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:29 pm     "I was just pointing out that an atheist is not bound by the "judge not lest ye be judged" rule. Dani, if she is a bible believing Christian, IS bound by that rule." (I signed off, thus the late response) Yes, Christians have rules, just as all citizens have rules. Don't speed when you drive a car. Don't curse at your grandma. Don't drive drunk. Some are moral rules, some are legal rules. Is everyone bound to certain rules based on religion, government etc? But we all break rules at some point. Why is Dani worse than others? Simply because she claims to be a Christian? If an aetheist doesn't believe in god, why are they holding Dani acountable for not behaving according to "her god's law"? According to an aetheist, which is the worse rule to break? A law set by the government for all to follow for the safety and well being of it's citizens...or a law set by a god someone else has, that the aetheist doesn't believe in anyway. Why would the aetheist hold the christian accountable for anything? SanFran...those JW that go door to door certainly can be annoying. I don't enjoy them either. But I must be quick to point out that they are doing what they believe is right. They show a great deal of dedication to to their belief in "spreading the word"...and that is admirable in my book....although I highly disagree with that particular religion. |
Wendo | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:32 pm     Ok, Zenya, no problem. It's so hard to tell inflection on a message board because you're only reading the words and applying your own assumptions. I agree, that not everything can be attributed to the game. And, in a perfect world, it would be nice to believe that one doesn't need to be mean and hateful to win a game. However, sometimes that happens. Look at Will last year, the winner. Yes, he was a good game player and very charismatic, however, there was some pretty nasty stuff he said in the DR. He just couched it in humor. Maybe for us, on the outside, Dani doesn't have to use religion to sway Gerry, but in the game, maybe SHE feels she does. *shrug* I suppose we'll just respectively agree to disagree. |
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:37 pm     Rain wrote, "...intolerance against Christians on the Web is rampant and widespread." And intolerance BY Christians on the Web is rampant and widespread, also. Guess that's life. Since Danielle is using her religious beliefs to demonize other HGs, I see NOTHING wrong with commenting on her words and actions. Have you noticed that Jason is not getting the same kinds of comments? His words and actions have been exemplary. Christian bashing? Not IMO. |
Zeyna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:42 pm     (Wendo) Respectful difference of opinion is why this is such a great board |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:46 pm     I also want to add that most groups that go door to door are based on a religious organization...not on Christianity necessarily. Christianity is an individual, personal thing, not an organized sect. Christian's meet in a particular religious atmosphere, but it is still an individual faith. For the mature Christian, his faith i.e. his Christianity, is a way of life...not a religion or a list of rules. You can see this in Jason. He is not ashamed of his faith, nor does he use it to hold himself up above others. It is a very personal relationship he has with 'His God' I think a great deal of this conversation is semantics when it comes to religion versus Christianity. They are two seperate things completely. The term..."born-again" also implies that Christian's need to grow and mature. Like in normal life, they start as babies and go through their terrible two's and frustrating teen years. Making many mistakes along the way. Keep this in mind when judging Dani. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:51 pm     And that's my 20 cents worth. |
Bridgetlovesbb | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:52 pm     Kearie, your above statement that "most groups that go door to door are based on a religious organization...not on Christianity necessarily." I dont think i understand that statemtent. Are you say that the ones that go door to door are not christians? or that they do based on what they are told to do and not the bible? Sorry, i just didnt understand it! thanks! |
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