Archive through August 11, 2002
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Christian Jason Playing the Game:
Archive through August 11, 2002
Earthmother | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:52 pm     I'm going to the Zen thread..still pickin' shrapnal out of my ass from this convo last year... |
Jasons_First | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:53 pm     Rain wrote, "...intolerance against Christians on the Web is rampant and widespread." Yeah and Christians can't tolerate anyone who doesn't think like them. I can remember being judged when I was a child because I'd made the decision early on not to practice ANY organized religion. Christians are probably some of the most judgemental people I've ever seen. LOL! Was I just being judgemental when I said that? I just don't think Jason is that way. |
Lurknomore | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:56 pm     Rain, I haven't read every post in this thread but I've followed it on and off. I have been VERY impressed by the respect fellow posters here have shown towards other's beliefs and posts, as well as how folks have not flamed but just talked intelligently. To me this is what I would LOVE to see more of in this complicated world. I must say your post aggravated me more than any other I read here. Yes, Jews DO bash Jews, blacks DO bash blacks and so on. But I haven't seen much bashing here. I've seen viewpoints exchanged. Has this gone off topic? Sure, what threads here don't. But have I seen much bashing or putdowns? And till your post I haven't seen many judgemental posts here, which was a breathe of fresh air to me. This is not meant in ANY way as an attack on you. I hope you will take it in the spirit it was written, which is to hope you can see this from another perspective. For example, I was raised Jewish, I respect the faith, and I was nauseated by the way Josh played the "Jew card." Is this me bashing my religion? HECK NO. It's me commenting on actions I perceived as inappropriate and that personally offended me. I personally haven't seen a lot of the "Christian bashing" you referred to, or much bashing at all to be honest. Mostly it's been a real nice, intelligent exchange. While others differing viewpoints may not always change my mind, it's interesting to see how others see things and take what they see into consideration. |
Maris | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 03:58 pm     This is so unrelated to BB but someone mentioned it in this thread. I have a question about Jehovah's. I have had Jehovah's knocking on my door at the early hours of the morning and someone told me that the reason they try to convert people has something to do with bringing X many souls to the pearly gates. I was also told that in the Jehova Witness religion that there is a belief that armageddon is coming and only so many people will be able to go to heaven. Can someone tell me if this is true or have I been told a story. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:02 pm     Bridgett - "I can guarantee you that the people handing out flyers and running up to you saying those things were NOT Jehovah's Witnesses." I didn't think those particular folks were JW. I just meant to point out that it was JW that used to ring my door all the time in San Diego uninvited. The flyer maniac was handing out Christian flyers (talked about Jesus, etc, so I know it wasn't Jewish or Hindu). I didn't mean to imply that those people were also JW....just that ALL of the "converters" I personally have come across that try to convert me have always been one type of "christian" or another. |
Bridgetlovesbb | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:04 pm     Maris, I am a Jehovah's Witness and the reason we witness to people is to teach the Bible to those who may not have a lot of Bible knowledge or are confused about some of the scriptures, not to "bring X many souls to the pearly gates" and we do believe the end is near and i dont mean like tomorrow, it could be hundreds of years away but we do not judge who will go to heaven or have eternal life because we dont know. no one does except God. So no those are not true. I have to say thanks so much for asking because a lot of people dont, they just assume! =0) |
Maris | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:04 pm     Sanfran could have been the "Jews for Jesus folks" were the flyers bright blue, bright orange?????? I get them all the time. |
Bohawkins | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:05 pm     One problem I have about the Jason situation is that if you represent or boast of yourself as being a person who is following a particular code, which purports a certain standard of excellence (for example, being pledged to speaking truth and opposed to lies), then you should be held to a higher standard, than those who merely let their actions speak for themselves. In my experience, people who brag of their Christian affiliation are often not "Christians" at all. My guess is that SanFranjoshfan is probably one of the best Christians you will ever meet, while not ascribing to being a Christian at all. Being a Christian would be someone who follows the teachings of Jesus (even without knowing them), and their behavior could be recognizable as synonymous with what a disinterested observer would describe as being congruent with Christian teachings. In the same fashion as a person would be a racist based on their attitude and speech and conduct, without being a card carrying member of any group, a Christian is defined solely by his actions and speech and conduct. Like my appraisal of SanFran, I have often described two people I know, one who is a Jew and the other an Agnostic, as two of the finest Christians I know. |
Bridgetlovesbb | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:07 pm     Sanfran, Okee dokee! I wasnt sure! Yes we are usually uninvited but if someone is not interested, its ok and its ok to say so. Its my personal decision to be a Jehovah's Witness and its your personal decision to not be interested and I respect that very much. =0) Bohawkins said <<Christian is defined solely by his actions and speech and conduct.>> WELL SAID!!! =0)
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Maris | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:10 pm     Thank you bridget. I appreciate the answer. Many years ago I worked with someone who was a Jehovah's witness and he told me a story that only a certian number I forget what the number was would go to heaven. He also told me that he had to convert a certain amount of people. I was never sure if he was telling me the truth. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:12 pm     The Bible does say that we should witness and tell other people about Christ. We should share our faith with others. Various religions put emphasis on different aspects of the Bible. Morman religions are awesome at tithing and at witnessing. Most are known for being family orientated. Good people, yes. But are they a Christian based religion? Most non-mormans would say no. (I have never studied mormanism so I can't say for sure.) Some religions teach specifically that John 3:16 is the only way to have everlating, eternal life. Christianity is specifically based on the belief that we are all sinners, but because of God's mercy in sacrificing His son Jesus...we can be saved from eternal hell. If we believe and have faith that Christ died for our sins and rose again...defeating death...then Christians shall also rise after death. (This is my specific understanding of what Christianity is based on. The mini version anyway) Not all religions teach this. Not all religions focus on this. Many focus on living by the Law of Moses. Religion is based on rules. Thou shall not...Thou shall. For the Christian, these rules are kept, not to be Christian's but to glorify God...for Christians are already gauranteed a place in heaven. Going door to door is a focus some religions have, that others don't. Some individuals chose to witness quietly to friends or co-workers. I can look at Jason and see that his quiet way is a way of witnessing. He claims he is a Christian. And we see that he IS a good person. He IS what we percieve a good/real Christian should behave like. I'd guess his quiet way of witnessing is reaching more people that any door to door person. JMHO |
Bridgetlovesbb | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:17 pm     I cant speak for mormons because I dont know much about their faith but i can say that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians. (not saying that you said they arent) I agree TOTALLY that actions play a HUGE part in any witnessing. No prob Maris!! |
Lurknomore | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:22 pm     Kearie, not ALL religions are based on rules As I've posted in the past, I am now a Spiritualist. This IS a religion, however one of the things we pride ourselves on is that we have no dogma or creed. There are 9 principles we follow, but rather than being rules, they are ways we try to live our lives and things we believe. There are NO thou shalt nots. What there is, is personal responsibility and true spirituality. When I first learned about it, I really came to understand what religion is all about, versus tradition. If anyone is interested I could go on, but I don't want to be a bore. Mostly I wanted to comment on the rules thang |
Costacat | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:23 pm     Wow! I reopened this thread this a.m. (cause I was tweaked at Dani saying "y'all need Jesus"). And then I go away for a few hours, and there's like, a TON of messages here. FWIW, although no one said anything to me specifically, I was not bashing Christianity. I was bashing Dani and the fact that when someone wasn't playing fair (in her opinion) then she thought that person needed to find Jesus. She assumed the role of saviour, whether or not that role was requested. (In my opinion, and I am entitled to such.) I, personally, take offense when someone tells me that; joking or not. My own personal beliefs are my beliefs. If someone asks me if I believe in God or Jesus, I'll answer. But I won't proselytize about my belief as a Buddhist and I won't tell that person that my way is the only way. That is what is always neat about meeting new people and making new friends. You get to find out a lot about different religions and beliefs. It is against my own personal ethics to bash anyone for his or her religion. Each person has a right to believe in the power in which he/she believes. Now, back to the subject at hand... Jason says he is a Christian, but that is just something that he is. He is not waving his hands saving anyone or saying he is better than anyone else. Whether he is following his own personal belief system or that of his church, he *seems* to be playing true to his beliefs. He admits that he might have to lie to win this game, but he obviously is not comfortable about it. And for that, and that alone, I give him a LOT of credit. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:28 pm     Kearie - "Yes, Christians have rules, just as all citizens have rules. Don't speed when you drive a car. Don't curse at your grandma. Don't drive drunk. Some are moral rules, some are legal rules. Is everyone bound to certain rules based on religion, government etc? But we all break rules at some point. Why is Dani worse than others? Simply because she claims to be a Christian?" I think the points made against Dani proclaiming her Christianity while seemingly judging others for not believing the same are not saying that she is worse just because she claims to be a christian. It's the hypocrisy of being a christian who is judging others, not to mention her condescension. I don't see Josh looking down on anyone for not converting to Judaism. "I also want to add that most groups that go door to door are based on a religious organization...not on Christianity necessarily." That may be true....but all the ones ones *I* have have seen have never been Moslem, Jewish, Hindu, or pagan....they have always been one brand of Christian or another. All of those organizations are based on Christianity. "You can see this in Jason. He is not ashamed of his faith, nor does he use it to hold himself up above others. It is a very personal relationship he has with 'His God'" I agree 100%. He is *practicing* his faith and living his faith without shoving it down the throat of the nonbelievers. I hope he wins....because he is a likeable and loving person, not because of the type of church he goes to. I don't have anything against Christians per se, just the ones that try to force it into my life, or patronize and pity me because I don't believe in it. "The term..."born-again" also implies that Christian's need to grow and mature." The context I usually see this in implies that one must suddenly see the light and start believeing that Jesus is the son of god. I see that as much more than a person's need to grow and mature. I was raised amid "born agains" that are sure "Catholics will go to hell because they pray to statues", as the above poster mentioned hearing a 17 year old tell a friend! Personally, I know I have grown and matured a lot in my 51 years....but not because I believe in Jesus. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:28 pm     One saying that I've always loved concerning Christianity is... Christian's aren't perfect...just forgiven. (Forgiven in the sence that God forgives us our sin and we do have our place in heaven) Christians lie, cheat, steal, kill, we talk bad about others and we are often judgemental. We mess up just like every human. We have what we call a sinful nature, just like everyone. We have to learn and struggle to make good choices in our life and in our behavior. It is often a daily, hourly struggle. We struggle to be Christ-like in our actions and thoughts. We say we should behave one way...and we mean it. But demmit, if we don't turn around and do just what we're trying not to do. I mean look a Judas, turning Christ over to the authorities. He betrayed Christ and yet, I'd be willing to bet he's with Christ in heaven. (Again, my beliefs) Any Christian who behaves as tho they are better than any non-christian, is simply not behaving as a Christian. They are struggling with their sinful human nature. |
Emo1979 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:32 pm     I have close relatives whom I consider to be "good Christians" - they really care about others, try to live a decent life because they believe it's the right thing to do, and are very devout and serious about their beliefs. I also think they talk about God a lot less than many people I know. Maybe that's because they know I'm not religious and respect me enough to not make me uncomfortable by talking about it, or maybe they're like that around everyone who isn't directly in their church, I don't know. I know they would also NEVER go on a show like this, so there ya go. ;) I like Jason because obviously he's very serious about his own devotion to his religion, but he rarely ever talks about God or his religion and never seems to make comments about how he's better than the other players or will be more successful in the game because "Jesus is on his side." That kind of attitude is just crap, especially in a game like this. I admire Danielle's kickass attitude about playing the game, and she does talk about Jesus a lot less than Vecepia and Sean from Survivor did, but I still think she's a little too "holier than thou even when I play dirty" in her attitude. Sorry mods, if you think this is a slam... I'm not saying they're bad people, just in my view, misguided. |
Verdana | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:39 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. Kearie wrote: Religion is based on rules. Thou shall not...Thou shall. For the Christian, these rules are kept, not to be Christian's but to glorify God...for Christians are already gauranteed a place in heaven. Honey, I have to say that this is the most misguided (I'm being polite) writing I've seen on this board yet to date. Religion is based on rules...yes, rules made by the MEN who cooked up the religions. The rules may be kept (whatever that means) but they are NOT followed by most Christians. Take "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Most people in the States are for the death penalty and most people CLAIM to be Christian. The resident in the White House claims he's a Christian yet he murders/kills/bombs people as fast he can. But yet honey I keep asking, what about "Thou Shalt Not Kill," because I'm here to tell you baby that there are no exceptions listed to that Commandment that I can find. Christians are NOT guaranteed a place in heaven at all honey. If that were true, there wouldn't be a day called Judgment Day in the Christian faith that fundamentalists and some of the other 10,000 different denominations believe in. Just thinking... |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:43 pm     Lurk I was specifically trying to say that RELIGIONS are based on rules. Being a Christian isn't. Being a Christian is a way of life...as you described when you wrote, "There are 9 principles we follow, but rather than being rules, they are ways we try to live our lives and things we believe." Christianity is based on a way we try to live and what we believe. Christianity is NOT based on following rules. SanFran...Any person in any religion can be a Christian. Heck, people without a religion can be a Christian. That's what "non denominatials" are. I guess my main point in all this is for people to not confuse Christianity with any Religion. SanFran...I heard a pentacostal pastor pray to God that he would remove his son from the face of the earth...because he found out his son was gay. That angered me in the extreme. That certainly wasn't behaving in a Christian way. That was unloving, judgemental and wrong. This pastor made a huge mistake..one he later took responsibility for. His prayer wasn't based on his religion or his faith...it was totally based on himself and his own weaknesses. His religion isn't wrong...his actions were. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 04:54 pm     "...intolerance against Christians on the Web is rampant and widespread." HUH? I just have to respond by saying if that's true, then it's the reverse in the real world. I don't know of any state that can fire people because they are Christian or disallow Christian adoptions, or disallow Christian marriages to take place. Florida, a state that is so intolerant of gay rights defend their intolerance by quoting the bible and Christian ethics. I don't want to get into a big gay thing here....but, being a gay man, the term "intolerance against Christians" just plain shocked me, coming from the perspective where so called Christian values are used as a defense to discriminate against people like me. I'd like to pleasantly note, too, that Jason the Christian has also not been intolerant or judgemental of Marcellas either. (not that *all* Christians are....but many are) |
Verdana | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:05 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. SanFranJoshfan: That's right, baby. Keep preaching, honey! Don't get me started on Christians. I've worked with a lot of people and know a lot of people and honey I've found that most people who are not religious at all are more "Christian" than those people who wrap themselves in the bible. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:08 pm     Bohawkins - "My guess is that SanFranjoshfan is probably one of the best Christians you will ever meet, while not ascribing to being a Christian at all." Kearie - "Heck, people without a religion can be a Christian." These statements leave me shaking my head in disbelief. Hate to burst your bubble, Bohawkins, but in no way shape or form am I a "Christian". Why does anyone that just happens to try to live a good life have to get labeled that? Why not just use the term "good human being" or "loving and forgiving person" or maybe just "good guy"? ALL of those concepts were around a LONG time before Jesus came along, formed a club of 13, and made a 2000 year old religion out of it. To boil down my belief system into one word that is actually derived from a whole concept that I do not believe in is just not right. No offense intended or taken....I was just so taken aback by that! :-) |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:09 pm     Verdana wrote: <Take "Thou Shalt Not Kill." > and <because I'm here to tell you baby that there are no exceptions listed to that Commandment that I can find. > Well, let's take that Verdana. The literal translation is "Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder", which kind of dispels your argument about hypocrisy. Murder is unlawful; but killing can be lawful. If you're going to toss about accusations, you should study the literal meanings closely. Of course, it would be rather silly (even for Christians) to have a commandment that says thou shalt not kill, and then give rules and reasons and how to's about killing in the same breath. You can find all that in Leviticus. So, it's pretty clear that *killing* IS a faithful Biblical concept, and okay if the right conditions are met. Apparently you haven't read all of Leviticus, or you woulda found those "exceptions". Now, having said all that, I don't agree with that particular philosophy. I'm against the death penalty, and don't have an ounce of respect for W. But be that as it may, Verdana-honey, your argument doesn't hold up well for me, since it's not really based on facts. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:15 pm     Leviticus also says that you can't eat shellfish doesn't it? http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=451105 |
Foodbunny | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:15 pm     Note: In Texas you cannot legally hold public office unless you swear that you believe in a higher power. Come talk to me about intolerance, real world examples trump petty namecalling on the web. |
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