Archive through August 11, 2002
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Christian Jason Playing the Game (Archive):
Archive through August 11, 2002
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:17 pm     Karuuna, I don't hold Dani to a higher standard. She's using her religion as part of her strategy so I'm writing what I think of it. You wrote, "They all spend lots of time pointing out faults and shortcomings of everyone else, and very little time focusing on their own." I agree wholeheartedly and I've posted my opinions of each of them in the various threads. With the exception of Jason, I don't hold any of the HGs in high regard. IMO this is by far the nastiest *group* BB has had in the house (not that individuals in former BBs haven't been nasty and cruel, they definitely have). Dani uses her religious beliefs to look down upon others and to denigrate them for not believing as she does. I think she's a self-righteous hypocritical religious bigot, and I doubt she'll be changing my mind about her in the days to come. That doesn't mean I don't think the others aren't being hypocritical in the least. Sanfranjoshfan, I love your posts! You have a way of making your point so eloquently and clearly. I'm a Sanfranjoshfanfan. : ) <I love being able to edit my typos. Thanks, admin!> |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:20 pm     Good thots Maris. I want to add that religion is very different than Christianity. Many, so called Christian religions such as Catholics, Baptists, Methodists and Pentocostals preach Christianity in different ways. Some religions focus on the fear of God, while others focus on the love of God. Different religions focus on various aspects of the teachings in the Bible. I think religion can play a key part in how are faith plays out on an individual basis also. Christianity is an individual faith, not a religion. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:23 pm     SanFran What Christian religions have knocked on your door? |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:25 pm     "just a thought: wasn't roddy also being better-than-thou when he said, in his pre-show tape--'religious people are ________ ?' pp. the word might have been stupid. anyone remember?" Hmmmm.....I don't think the term would be "holier than thou" coming from an atheist! :-) But, then...being an atheist does not have rules like "don't judge" or "turn the other cheek" etc... It's the believers that join a club with a lot of rules and want others to be in the same club....while not following all those rules, that make them hypocritical. Roddy isn't claiming to live by a set of faith based rules, so his opinions and remarks concerning the faith of others is not "hypicritical". They may be rude and pompous, but that does not make them hypocritical. :-) JMO |
Gina8642 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:30 pm     Dani is being a hypocrite because she is judging people so strongly for their religous beliefs or lack of them, when she is doing a very, very poor job of upholding several christian ideals Like: Do unto other's as you'd have them do unto you Like: He who is without sin, should cast the first stone. She is casting stones all over the place, about Roddy, about Gerry.... It is sickening me. Re - Only christians who accept jesus can go to heaven, and good atheist can't go to heaven because they don't accept christ So what? If someone is an atheist, they don't believe in heaven in the first place. A 'good' (and we arn't talking Lisa's definition of 'good' here) person who is an athiest, or agnostic, finds a different reason for being a 'good' person in life then just the carrot of getting to go to heaven. Personally I see alot of reason to be good out in this world. And not one has to do with the after life. I want to be good and kind to other people because that is a good and kind thing to do. Not becasue heaven or hell may exist. Maybe some people need the threat of punishment in eternal for their lives misdeed in order to convince them to be 'good' people. But many don't. They can manage to be 'good' just because they want to. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 01:51 pm     Kearie, when I lived in San Diego, we used to get Jehovah's Witnesses all the time. I live in San Francisco now with a security gate....but even now once every couple of years I answer the buzzer and there are 2 people that want to talk about jesus or something. A couple of years ago, at a gay street fair a group of young people were handing out flyers. As I walked by, I took one and it was "Jesus will save you from your sinful life" propaganda. I continued walking and tore the flyer in half and dropped the flyer in the trash can a few feet away. One of the "Christians" saw me and ran up to me SCREAMING at me with her finger in my face yelling "YOU BETTER NOT TEAR THAT UP.....GOD WILL TEAR YOU UP!!" A policeman standing nearby just shook his head and said that I should just ignore them, which I did. Often times when I get on a bus I find flyers and Christian propaganda left in the empty seats. There is a guy here in SF that stands around a major tourist spot wearing a sandwich sign blathering about Babylon and the wrath of god, not to mention more than a few soapbox street preachers. Once in awhile a street preacher will pick a spot right on 18th and Castro and preach at the top of his lungs to all of us hellbent godless gayfolk. Sheesh....get a life and leave me alone. Even when it comes to individual Christians, remarks such as Dani's is pretty much the same thing, just not as organized. Telling anyone that they "need to find Jesus" to be a better person is unwanted preaching from self righteous people. My point is that this kind of stuff has, in MY experience, only been perpetrated by Christians and Christian groups. I suppose if I lived in a Muslim country, I'd be talking about their religious zealots pushing their interpretation of Islam onto me....but I'm in America, land of the free, where if I even want to pledge my allegiance to my country (one that I love) I have to do so "under (a Christian) god" even though I do not believe that. JMO |
Wendo | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:00 pm     Quite honestly, like Moedog, I think Dani is just using the idea of religion as part of strategy. I just don't think it's such a big deal. They ARE in the middle of a game, you might as well use any tool to advance toward the finish line. Religion is something she's able to use to talk with Gerry, and Jason. Using terms such as evil and devil are really just rhetoric. Do you REALLY believe that she thinks Josh and Roddy are evil? I don't think so. It's a game folks. I'd be using any tool I could to win too. |
Laffy | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:03 pm     i don't get it. if this were a race would you think it "unchristian" to win? they aren't living real life in there, THEY'RE TRYING TO WIN A GAME. this is a tv show and they are all COMPETITORS for the prize. deception is a major factor in the game, it must be used in order to win. it has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's religious beliefs. it's both fun and interesting to analyze the HGs actions but let's remember this is a game on television, and not anyones real life. these people are being prodded and directed by the DR to act in certain ways. don't take it so damned seriously. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:07 pm     Moe - if you wanna get technical about bashing folks in their own folders, this thread is actually about Jason, so let's bash him awhile, okay? I'm just kidding of course. It's just interesting to me that so much time the posters here are *judging* other people for, um, *judging* other people. And then claim that we shouldn't, um, judge other people. So, I guess my take from that is that it must be kewl to judge folks by your own standards, and not okay for other people to judge other people by their own standards.... Okay, my head hurts again. Where's the Serafem when you need it? Hey, it's just an observation. So, um, judge me. I don't mind. |
Snee | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:08 pm     sanfran, i didn't say 'holier than thou'. i said 'better than thou'. perhaps 'smarter than thou' would have sufficed. you're right, 'holier than thou would be some kinda incorrect! and i hope you didn't mean that i was saying roddy was being hypocritical. i merely meant that dani did the '...than thou' and so did roddy. |
Gina8642 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:10 pm     Wendo I think you may be right. Everyone (meaning the HGs) early on were accusing Gerry of saying anything to get on someone's good side. Dani to a degree is doing the same thing here. She is deliberately appealing to Gerry's religous side to curry his favor. In that context I really don't see anything wrong with what she is doing. She is attempting to influence the game in her favor. That is what she is supposed to do in terms of the game. |
Zeyna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:11 pm     So by that theory Wendo, do you REALLY believe that Josh thinks Gerry is a Nazi? I would not excuse such statements based on the fact that they're unrealistic, but I will make a judgment on the person who is saying it. For Dani to say that Roddy is the devil and that he needs to find Jesus does not help her with the game. If anything, it gives Gerry an idea of who he's aligning with. Danny can say whatever she wants, but not everything can be excused by the game. |
Gina8642 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:11 pm     BTW - she is still being hypocrital. The other HGs can call her on it (if they figure it out) and influence others against her. That's the game of BB... |
Drpepper | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:15 pm     I think when Dani said he needs Jesus, it was no more than a metaphor, it is like someone saying you need to get a heart, people are so touchy. And for those of us that believe in God, he is more than our judge of right and wrong, he is sooo much more. So, back on the topic, Jason is doing GREAT! Have I already said that. LOL |
Oregonfire | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:19 pm     I agree with you Drpepper about Dani saying "he or her needs Jesus" is shorthand for get a conscience or a heart. I didn't see the convo this morning, but I heard Dani say it on last night's show in the DR and wasn't bothered. |
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:19 pm     I've included Jason in all but one post since he IS the topic of this thread. My judgment of him is totally favorable so I don't feel the need to bash him. If he gets outta line, though, watch out J-man! ; ) I don't give a rat's patoot that Dani judges others by whatever standards she wants to employ. Doesn't mean I have to agree with her in the least or that I won't "judge" her by my own standards. I'm not one to say we shouldn't judge others. Hell, we do it everyday on so many levels. I think it's unrealistic to expect non-judgment from anyone. In closing I think Dani is a self-righteous hypocritcal religious bigot. Okay, I'm done. : ) |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:23 pm     Snee - DUH.... Jeez...I even copied and pasted that remark and read it wrong every time! LOL I was just pointing out that an atheist is not bound by the "judge not lest ye be judged" rule. Dani, if she is a bible believing Christian, IS bound by that rule. In this case, they are both being elitist and pompous, although only Dani could be called "hypocritical" because she broke a rule of her professed faith. I didn't *mean* to imply that you called Roddy hypocritical.....I was just on a roll and didn't read your post as carefully as I should have! :-) |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:30 pm     Actually, SanFran, since I have argued relentlessly with many "Bible-Believing" Christians, they would argue that they are bound to judge folks, and they have a whole bunch of passages to back that up too. But in a rare moment of self-restraint, I'll forego posting them all. If you're so inclined, you can just listen to Dr. Laura sometime. That's the problem with taking the Bible literally, there simply are so many contradictory passages you can use to support just about any old position you want to take. Ultimately, we *all* believe the point of view we have is the *right* one. That's why we have it. If we really thought our particular philosophy was wrong, we'd change it. In that way, we're all kinda arrogant.  |
Moedog | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:37 pm     Karuuna wrote, "Ultimately, we *all* believe the point of view we have is the *right* one. That's why we have it. If we really thought our particular philosophy was wrong, we'd change it. In that way, we're all kinda arrogant." I'm in complete agreement with you!!! Well said. |
Maris | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:39 pm     I would say that my point of view is "right" for me but not necessarily for someone else which is not what Dani subscribes to. |
Zeyna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:42 pm     Karuuna and Maris, I agree with both points 100%. This is why I respect Jason so much. He has his beliefs, acts accordingly and has never appeared to be judgmental or above anyone else. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:44 pm     "many "Bible-Believing" Christians, they would argue that they are bound to judge folks, and they have a whole bunch of passages to back that up too" Exactly! It's like saying "I believe in the Bible because it says to in the Bible!" LOL "If we really thought our particular philosophy was wrong, we'd change it. In that way, we're all kinda arrogant." I dunno if I can agree with that....I am of the opinion that the arrogance comes from pushing our own philosophy onto others who didn't ask for it.....not from just quietly believing that we are right. In fact, that's why I don't listen to the "Dr" Laura show. I've heard her say some stuff that I thought was ignorant on some talk shows, so now I choose to not be a part of her forum. Believe you me, if there were "Dr" Laura supporters ringing my doorbell, trying to convert me, I'd be up in arms. :-) And before anyone says that is what I am doing here (trying to convert others to my way of thinking) let me just say that this thread is a voluntary discussion of all these points of view. Bottom line: Jason IS playing the game as a "good Christian" (as I understand the rules of that religion). Some of the other "Christians" are not. Also, his faith may make him feel good about himself and his game playing, but I don't think god is up there giving him a point spread. JMO |
Snee | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:45 pm     sanfran, re the '...than thou' post: hehehehehe karuuna and maris: yup. |
Foodbunny | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:50 pm     The simple fact of the matter is that if Roddy said "You don't have to keep your word to Jason, he's a Christian and that makes him untrustworthy" everyone would be up in arms. No one would be saying "He's just playing the game as an atheist, leave him alone" or "Of course he thinks the Christian is untrustworthy, he's a atheist and only trusts other atheists" or anything of the sort. What if someone said that Josh was untrustworthy because he's a Jew? People would be all over them for it! But since it's the atheist they're dumping all over it's just playing the game. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 02:51 pm     Thanks, Moe. Not enough I stumble into something that's somewhat well said. Maris - I agree to a point. But making "right" completely subjective doesn't quite work for me. To take a more extreme example, I don't care if Justin and Krista were just kidding or not from their point of view, I don't think it's "right" to hold a knife to someone's throat -- even in jest. So, apparently I am willing to "impose" my point of view of right/wrong on others. When I do that, I know that it is a somewhat arrogant position. But that's a limb I'm willing to crawl out on - albeit cautiously! So I guess it doesn't bother me if others do the same. Sometimes I'm even willing to believe that it's not out of arrogance, it's out of a genuine concern for someone's well being. Some Christians believe that their brand of Christianity is truly the only way to live right. So that they want everyone to live that way, is to say that they have a genuine concern that everyone live right. <shrugs shoulders> I'm willing to judge that not such a bad thing. |
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