Help me out here...exactly what are Josh's lies?
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three: Help me out here...exactly what are Josh's lies?
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Archive through August 11, 2002 25   08/11 06:21pm

Curlyq

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Josh's failing isn't that he lies any more than the others, but that he does it so sloppily. He does something (like suggesting Marcellas for eviction) and claims it was someone else. Then it's very easy for people to check on his story and catch him in the lie. As Marcellas pointed out, even being seen talking to him is dangerous because even if he approaches you he'll tell other people you approached him. This makes it impossible to trust him or work with him.

His lie about Lisa was that he overheard Lisa tell Eric she was mad at Chiara for not using the veto. Of course, I'm just assuming this was a lie because she may or may not have said it. Roddy told this story to Chiara who then went to Josh to confirm it. I think that's when Josh told her Lisa hated her.

Another lie (although it's a lie by omission) was when he let Amy think Chiara was the one who voted against her in the first eviction. She reached that conclusion on her own, but he never set her straight when she told him her suspicions.

One can argue that these kind of lies are just playing the game, but he's very sloppy about it. He's done it so often that nobody believes him even when he tells the truth.

Bmh

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ok so basically to sum it up..Josh is one of the BIGGEST liars in the house..yes they are all liars..but Josh and Chiara seem to lie the most out of all of them...but the difference between Chiara and Josh is that Chiara is a good liar and gets away with it and Josh is a terible liar and doesn't get away with it..I say if your a excellent liar then go right ahead and lie but if you aren't forget it

Sam222

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think some of Josh's biggest lies have been telling other people he stood up for him/got them off the block. I remember Jason talking about Josh implying to him that nearly every week he has worked it in some way so that he has saved him

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Josh claimed that he was not the 4th vote for Amy in her first nom, but he was. He had promised the 6 pack to vote for Lori but voted for Amy instead. He then lied to everyone about it after the fact.

He recently admitted that he HAD been the 4th vote, but by doing so, he admitted to breaking promises in an eviction vote....not a good thing to do in this ruthless a game.

This one will certainly come back to haunt him, if by some chance he stays and Roddy goes this week....followed by an Amy return! As it is, she's about the only one who might've helped with strategically if she returns! LOL

Pamy

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You know what is ironic about all this?If he had kept his word and not campaigned against Tonya, he would have spent the last 3 weeks on a beautiful vacation in Mexico AND would have had a 2nd chance to win the game!!!

Bmh

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol Pamy..good point..see Tonya was trying to help him along and look what he went and did

Kitt

Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 11:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He also claimed someone else, probably Gerry, started the group voting for Marcellus in week one, but it was actually Josh. There was one tv episode a couple of weeks ago where they showed clips of Josh saying something and then the clip of him doing the opposite.

Chancesdesign

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 12:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Another Josh lie is that he told Lori he didn't know who suggested that she should be the "decoy" against Marcie the first week. Of course he knew, because IT WAS HIM. He suggested her after ANOTHER lie about being perfectly willing to be the other nominee himself.

Now that I think about it, how different would the game have been if he had actually followed through on that suggestion. Methinks he would have been out the first week, even if the veto had not been used to save Marcie. Most of them were pretty much onto him by the first vote - especially Lisa. I am glad he has been there though. Even though I think he is a jerk ( to put it nicely ), he has made it very interesting.

Bohawkins

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Azriel - isn't it time for you to do another compilation listing? I was hoping to see periodic updates as more lies were documented. You stopped at two.

Cndeariso

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I seem to remember when CBS put his profile out there for all to see that Josh said he would do whatever it took to win including telling lies. At the time I thought what a Will copycat he would turn out to be. He has told as many as everyone else but it is his demeanor that makes him seem much worse. They showed him telling the DR that his crying to Dani was all faked.

Azriel

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You can't get away with being lazy around here, huh Bo? :)

Some of these are unconfirmed because I haven't had time to look them up on the live feeds. If you can give a confirmation on the feeds or show, let me know.

1.Chiara says he told her that Lisa hated her and would put her up if Lisa got HOH. (confirmed by tv, also confirmed by live feeds that Lisa did say negative things about Chiara prior to Josh telling Chiara this)

2.Told HGs he was a substitute teacher. (confirmed by tv show)

3.Josh listened at the HOH door when Eric suggested to Gerry that Josh should be put up i/o either him or Lisa. Then Josh went to Danielle and said that he heard Eric and Gerry planning to tell Chiara that if she used the POV they would NOT put up Roddy but either Danielle, Marc or Jason. Josh wanted to get Danielle working on convining Chiara that Roddy would be put up if she used the POV as Josh wanted the nominations left alone. (uncomfirmed)

4. Josh campaigned against Tonya after telling her he wouldn't. (uncomfirmed)

5. Talked about the game after HOH Roddy told him not to and then told Roddy that others talked about it first. (uncomfirmed)

6.Claimed that he was not the 4th vote for Amy after the first nom but later admitted he was.(confirmed)

7.Josh told Lori he didn't know who suggested her being the decoy against Marcellas. (uncomfirmed)


I really expected a lot more despicable lies since Josh is so hated on the board. I know I haven't changed anyone's opinion about Josh with this thread but it has confirmed to me what I felt before I started it. Josh doesn't lie any more than most of the other HGs and some of his lies are innocuous.

Wcv63

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Azriel it's not the lies it's the delivery. The lies by themselves are strictly strategy. But the attitude, the actions and his other behavior in the house have caused people to dislike his BB persona. He's a high-maintenance guy and he would completely drain me if I had to coexist with him.

Azriel

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Josh is just another victim of the gang mentality. It just blows my mind that more people haven't seen the same things I've seen. He is a real person that you can trust. He has had his ugly moments like any human being would have if they were followed around 24/7 with a camera, but overall, I've seen a real caring human being that I really like.

I don't judge my houseguests on game playing ability. My favorites are the people that I would consider inviting over to my house if I knew them IRL. Josh would be welcome anytime. :)

Kitt

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When was he caring, Azriel? I don't get the live feeds so I'd be interested to know... all I hear is bad stuff about him. I really really disliked him after the first tv show, but I've softened to him a bit since then. He's still by far my least favourite hg though, so I'd like to hear anything positive.

Bmh

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol that is very generous of you Azriel..I wouldn't let Josh near my backyard or my driveway..nevermind my front door..

People I could actually see myself interacting with and inviting in my home would be Danielle,Jason,Lisa,Marcellas,Roddy,Eric,and of course Amy!

I wouldn't let Josh,Gerry,Tonya near my house

Curlyq

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
While I agree that Josh may be a fun person to invite to your house, I can't agree that he's someone who can be trusted. Only a select few people (or really one, Roddy) can trust him. With everyone else he has developed a habit of turning things around to make other people look guilty of what he's done. If I were in the house with him I would never be able to accept any deals from him because I'd know that he would just turn around and divulge it to someone else, while claiming I was the instigator.

I think Josh is a funny character and he does often make me laugh on the show, but I just wish he had used a different game plan. He could've gone a lot farther if he'd relied more on his personality and a bit less on deception and open hostility. He's only a victim of his own mentality.

I also think that since he chose to be the first one to lie on the very first night, that created a negative impression of him in the viewers minds.

Bohawkins

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 06:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Azriel, I think you did an amazing job in presenting the case. I am impressed at the paucity and the lack of severity of the so-called lies. I liked Josh right away, but since I lived in Manhattan for about ten years, and have maintained an apartment there for weekend visits, ever since I moved back to my native stomping grounds in Dallas about five years ago, I like that type of character. I have been exposed so much to Nooo Yawrk Sitty that I have grown to love the varied personalities I find there.

It would be interesting if you would contrast the "Josh Lies" list with a "Josh acts of goodness" list. For example, he was good to his word about Amy. He has been loyal to his girlfriend. That list might be as weak in substance as the "lies" list, but it might be an interesting parallel.

Seamonkey

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 06:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Saturday's show show highlighted yet another lie. He saw Jason and Marcellas washing dishes but told Roddy he saw them SHAKING hands, which to him meant that they had a pact.

Azriel

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kitt, here are a few things that I've noticed.

Josh was very nice to Amy when everyone else was trashing her. He tried hard to get Roddy to let him give her one vote so she wouldn't go out unanimously. He really seemed to be the only one that understood what that meant to her.

He really wanted Dani to get the American Choice letter so she could hear from her children and you could see that he felt geniunely bad for her when she didn't receive it.

It was Josh's idea to have the last dinner for Eric and Lisa and he cooked the meal and worked hard to make it special for them.

He has been unfailingly loyal to his alliance with Roddy. Whenever he has given his word on voting matters he has kept it.

He has taken good care of the lizards when most everyone else ignores them.

Azriel

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 07:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Seamonkey, I think he really did see them shaking hands. At least, that's what I recall seeing.

Sam222

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He lied just now on the feeds, he told Jason that from the first week he has worked to make sure he was safe-absolutely not true! Plus the fact he was spewing all his nasty hate towards Jason on
Thursday trying to get Chiara to nominate hime

Azriel

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sam, this is what was posted in the live feeds:

Josh to Jason - On my way out just know i have always looked out for you I was the one who wanted to get you in a protected basis
I hold you in respected position.


I'm not sure if the wording was from day one or what. Judging from the live feed, I wouldn't exactly call that a lie. He was the one that initiated getting Jason into the 'boys alliance' with Roddy and Eric.