Archive through August 11, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three:
Christian Jason Playing the Game:
Archive through August 11, 2002
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:17 pm     Oops - messed up the link, trying again: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=451105 |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:21 pm     Oh yes, SanFran - but you can stone your child to death if he/she talks back to you. As far as intolerance goes, I think there's plenty to go around. Just look at the folks in this thread - you're an okay Christian as long as you don't talk about being a Christian. That's a kind of intolerance as well. And the constant efforts to dampen any mention of the word God in any public forum are also a form of intolerance. And last year I was working as a volunteer in a public school and I was asked not to wear my cross *in view*. How silly is that? But it goes both ways. The prohibitions against gay marriage and gay adoption being the most glaring and ugly examples. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:23 pm     Hmmm......Actually I don't recall if Jason has eaten shellfish in the house or not...LOL....but it wouldn't matter. I think Jase takes the "be good" parts of the bible and just lives his life that way. In my book, that's the best kind of Christian. And for him, I believe that IS being a good Christian....for some folks like Jerry Falwell, a religious leader with a huge following, it's the intolerance and condemnation that he spews that is so damn scary. |
Bearware | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:42 pm     Christians do have a few guidelines that should be followed. Christ said, "love God with all your heart, mind, strength, and love your neighbor as yourself". The only other real guideline I can find that points to being a Christian is faith in Christ and His Sacrifice, and the commitment of ourselves to Him. With that said, rules, regulations, commandments are all tied up in these guidelines, but the entire point of Christianity is that NO MAN or WOMAN can EVER POSSIBLY live up to them, with the exception of Christ Himself. Therefore, we ARE forgiven - because we must be! We can never be perfect, and if we believe we can be, then pride is our first sin! Jason is behaving as best he can. In proclaiming his faith, he has shown himself to be a man of honor, but through any missteps he makes, we learn he is also a regular man. We all make mistakes, no man is perfect, nay not one. |
Verdana | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:30 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. Karuuna says: Well, let's take that Verdana. The literal translation is "Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder", which kind of dispels your argument about hypocrisy. Murder is unlawful; but killing can be lawful. If you're going to toss about accusations, you should study the literal meanings closely. Yes, let's take that honey. The "literal translation" and the "literal meanings" according to whom? Your preacher? But what if my preacher doesn't agree with that interpretation? Why do you think there over 10,000 different Christian denominations? Because they can't agree on this stuff. And it doesn't kind of dispel my argument about hypocrisy at all. What is does do is to show that some Christians will do their best to twist, interpret and reinterpret scriptures and commandments so that they can justify their barbaric actions (i.e. killing is barbaric). This is done all the time. It's quite clear at least to me, baby, that Jesus preached against killing, murder and violence, period. Murder and killing are in the same boat, if you ask me baby. I go by what it says: What it says today is: "Thou Shalt Not Kill." No exceptions. Frankly, I don't see how that could be made any clearer. I couldn't agree with you more on W. What a disgrace! As far as facts and religion: facts have nothing to do with religion, honey. Religion is solely based on faith and interpretation and is mainly used to control people and their sexuality. Now, as far as Jason is concerned precious, I think he's using religion purely as strategy. Y'all take it easy. P.S. I think these boards are far better than the feeds themselves and I'd like to thank the moderator(s) for allowing this chat. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:56 pm     Thank you BearWare. I agree whole heartedly with you and liked the way you stated yourself. I must back away from this conversation, Darling. I can't imagine 10,000 people agreeing on anything or intrepreting ANYTHING in the exact same way as everyone else. That just isn't humanly possible. And to expect everyone who reads the Bible to have the exact same interpretation of the words written, is totally rediculous. People are individuals with different beliefs and values. One more point...(expressing my opinion) Mankind rates and judges what is wrong. Our government punishes individuals based on how "WRONG" we view an act. This same Wrong is what God calls sin. In God's veiw any sin is punishable by death. A lie is just as much of a sin as murder, in God's view. Look at the 10 Commandments. Thou shall not covet and Thou shall not kill. They are both RULES by God. But show me one person on this board who hasn't coveted. Why would God order us not to do such a minor thing and a few lines later order us not to kill? God sees it all as sin punishable by death. I don't think God considers any sin worse than another. That is a human thing. In any case, these laws were set forth prior to the ressurection of Christ. As Bearware pointed out...the laws changed after Christ made his sacrifice. The new law became "put God first, others second and selves last." That can't be much clearer. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 06:58 pm     "Religion is solely based on faith and interpretation and is mainly used to control people and their sexuality." LOL |
Sunrise | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:02 pm     i have to chime into this thread with a few lines from one of my favorite songwriter/poets of my life time. and, that would be Patty Smith. "Jesus died for somebody’s sins; but, not mine. my sins, my sins they can only belong to me." (opening of Gloria) whether jason plays the game as a good Christian or not is just too much of an oxymoron for me to touch. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:07 pm     "whether jason plays the game as a good Christian or not is just too much of an oxymoron for me to touch." Thanks for the much needed laugh. I loved it. |
Twiggyish | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:21 pm     Jason, Josh and Roddy have all revealed their religious or nonreligious beliefs. Each one is committed to his own convictions. Josh is a religious person, as he has repeatedly told us. Roddy also has his beliefs. So why is Jason targeted in particular for his Christianity. As far as I've seen, he hasn't tried to preach to anyone. I applaud his conviction!! Let's not make this a, ...what's wrong with Christians thread. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:31 pm     "I don't think God considers any sin worse than another. That is a human thing. " Uh, yes it is a human thing.....just like organized religion. I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is possible for me to sin. I have never seen anyone that has been struck dead for coveting something. I do believe, however, in the the rule of law and I do believe that I am able to break a law and be lawfully punished for it. (Actually, I *have* gotten parking tickets that I actually deserved!) LOL As for Verdana's statement "Religion is solely based on faith and interpretation", I believe it is true. As for the second part of that statement that it "is mainly used to control people and their sexuality", I believe is also true....as I seem to recall, gay marriage is unlawful because of "religious beliefs", not because of any actual proof that it will harm anyone. It's that "religious beliefs" are the driving force behind such discrimination surrounding sexual orientation and other sexual acts. There are 52 men in jail in Egypt right now for being in a gay bar...they were arrested for something like "homosexual behavior" and for "contempt of religion". http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/11/egypt1114.htm It's interesting how the more fundamentalist a country is, the more severe their punishment for anyone not strictly missionary position hetero.....that looks to me like religion playing a very LARGE part in controling people and their sexuality. JMO |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:33 pm     oops....I spoze I went TOTALLY off topic on that last one! Sorry! <sheepish grin> Go Jason...no matter what you call yourself! |
Twiggyish | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:36 pm     Right San, not just Christianity. All religions have their zealots. I also agree about the fundamentalism. |
Twiggyish | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 07:41 pm     I should say, I agree with you San about fundamentalism. It's sad about those men in Egypt. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:03 pm     Verdana-Darling wrote: <Yes, let's take that honey. The "literal translation" and the "literal meanings" according to whom? Your preacher? But what if my preacher doesn't agree with that interpretation? Why do you think there over 10,000 different Christian denominations? Because they can't agree on this stuff. And it doesn't kind of dispel my argument about hypocrisy at all. What is does do is to show that some Christians will do their best to twist, interpret and reinterpret scriptures and commandments so that they can justify their barbaric actions (i.e. killing is barbaric). This is done all the time. It's quite clear at least to me, baby, that Jesus preached against killing, murder and violence, period. Murder and killing are in the same boat, if you ask me baby. I go by what it says: What it says today is: "Thou Shalt Not Kill." No exceptions. Frankly, I don't see how that could be made any clearer.> You're clear as mud, honey. The ancient Aramaic word found in the earliest records we have is mordre. Now, tell me, even to an untrained ear, does that sound like "kill" to you? Or does it sound like "murder?" There isn't a Biblical scholar in the world that disagrees with the meaning of the word, or the intent of the passage. It's only those who haven't studied the thing that think that passage means that you can't ever kill anyone, any time. You claim Christians pick and choose, then you pick and choose and interpret yourself. You say there are no exceptions, yet the Thou Shalt Not Murder commandment is given in Leviticus. The same darn book that spells out when it is acceptable to kill your own child, for goodness sake. But yet you, self-proclaimed expert on Biblical text and ancient Aramaic languages, can say authoritatively what it means. Okay. What is clear to me are the contradictions in your argument. You can refuse to acknowledge them all you want, honey-child. |
Tisha90029 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:07 pm     Karuuna, you are right. Like many things about the Christian texts, it is a mistranslation and should read "murder". Just ask any Jew who knows a thing or two! HEEHEE. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:12 pm     LOL, Tisha. Thanks for backing me up. And I also agree that there are many mistranslations in the Christian texts (whichever version or revision you want to point to). Funny thing is, I agree with Verdana that killing and murder are barbaric any way you look at them. I just don't think you can find a compelling argument against killing in Christianity, especially in the Torah. So to use that commandment to point out Christian hypocrisy is disingenuine, in my opinion. Heck, there are enough more factual instances of Christian hypocrisy without having to rely on making some up!  |
Cajunrambler | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:29 pm     It is stange how this topic went from how Jason is playing the game to a comparitive view of world religions and philosophies. Can we try to get back to the original subject of Jason? I think Jason is holding his own and doing his best to win the game based on his moral convictions. He is being pushed to the limit with all of Chi's sexual come ons. Of course it looks like that friendship has fizzled. |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:33 pm     <giggles> Go Josh and Dani. They are both awesome game players reqardless what translation we use. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:34 pm     Hmmm...the original topic was "Christian Jason Playing the Game"....and now I'm thinking it went so deep because the word "Christian" means something different to almost each and every one of us. I am guessing that until a universal definition of "Christian" is adopted (fat chance!), this question cannot be answered! :-) I think Jason is playing the game extremely well and still not finding it necessary to be nasty. |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:35 pm     oh heck, Cajun, I'm not organized enough to stay on topic! Topics here do have a way of twisting and turning and going where they may. It's not necessarily a bad thing. But I like Jason. Not because of what he believes or doesn't believe, but of how he behaves and therefore who I think he is. I do hope he wins. And I miss Ethan. Oh yeah, wrong show, and off-topic. Dagnabbit! |
Kearie | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:36 pm     "Uh, yes it is a human thing.....just like organized religion." Which is totally different than the individual FAITH of Christianity. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:42 pm     Kearie - I respectfully disagree. There are a million different "faiths" (or "interpretations") of the religion of christianity. The very name "Christianity" is derived from "Christ" and is based on him being the son of god. That is based on the Christian "religion". |
Karuuna | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:43 pm     Well, I could force myself to be on topic and say that I think Jason is considering whether doing away with the other HGs would be considered killing or murder. Okay, it's too much of a stretch, I admit it.... Good point, SanFran - Christian does have many different definitions, so the topic question can't be answered. But my, we TVCHers do love to espouse anyway, don't we? (especially me!)  |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:44 pm     Going back to my previous post of 8:42pm - But then....that goes back to what the universal definition of Christianity is. Mine is that it is an organized religion, practiced by many different folks in many different sects. Here is the first definition that comes up on www.dictionary.com: Chris·ti·an·i·ty Pronunciation Key (krsch-n-t, krst-) n. 1. The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. Christians as a group; Christendom. 3. The state or fact of being a Christian. 4. pl. Chris·ti·an·i·ties A particular form or sect of the Christian religion: the Christianities of antiquity. |
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