Archive through August 12, 2002
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Christian Jason Playing the Game:
Archive through August 12, 2002
Vancouvergirl | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:36 pm     Sanfran: Sorry, I tried to choose my words very carefully!! "As a christian, my minister tries to instill a sense of duty on his congregation's part to remind people of Jesus and God and to let people be aware of their existence in today's world." My MINISTER TRIES to instill a sense of duty on his congregations part.... does not mean that I am trying to instill or persuade anyone. It simply means that I am moved by my sense of duty. and "Perhaps I was trying to raise awareness and support of christianity and basically just chose the wrong time and place." The word here is PERHAPS!! Meaning maybe... or maybe not. Maybe I was trying to raise awareness, maybe I wasn't, and if I was trying to raise awareness it would be based on this sense of duty that my minister has planted in me. I am not trying to "recruit" anyone to christianity. I just am interested in hearing other peoples views on the subject and how they feel about Jason in this game. I suppose it is very easy to dissect each individual word and intention. Just as easy as it is to take certain words in the bible literally. A friend of mine who watches BB3 said to me after it first aired "I can't wait to see Jason that Christian boy get teared to shreds." And I thought that was a very strange thing to say. I was curious how many other people felt that way, if any. I'm sorry if I offended you or over-stepped any boundaries, but really, I don't want to change people's own personal ideas and beliefs. It bothers me how people feel that christians should act "perfect" and many christians are judged as being hypocritical. I want it to be known that christians are people too, and make mistakes and sin and are not perfect in any way. I am ashamed by those christians who claim to be "holier than thou" or act like they are better than others. Christians, I think, are supposed to be "representatives of their faith", setting good examples. I hope I am setting a fair enough example and not offending anyone. |
Vancouvergirl | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:43 pm     Sanfran: I have read and enjoyed all of your posts and I respect your personal beliefs and how you choose to live your life as a good person. that is great. I agree that being a good person and making the right choices in life doesn't necessarily mean you need to go to church or subscribe to a religion. You are entitled to live your life as you wish, with whichever belief and value system you are comfortable with. I respect you and those beliefs for who you are as an individual. And the fact that you have visited this thread so much and have contributed so much, to me, means that you are very aware of christianity and have made educated choices in your life. Good for you. It is not my position to try to change that. I thank you for being respectful and open-minded of the discussion herein and again, I have really enjoyed reading your posts. In them, you have raised my awareness!!!! |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:46 pm     "How "loving" and "merciful" is it of a God to allow people to get sick and suffer when you, as the all-powerful God, could prevent it? But of course most Christians never think this that far through. They usually come up with some excuse for God by saying "we don't know what he has planned...oh it's all in his big plan." A pretty sadistic plan if you ask me, precious." Very good question brought up many times by non-Christians. I would like to share an answer that a friend of mine has for this question. I hope this will provide some understanding based on one person's experience. (Sorry if it gets long) A woman in my church congregation I admire very much. In my opinion anyone can look at her and see God's love and mercy shining through her. Her beliefs, her values shine through her and you know she is genuine. You can almost feel Jesus in her, just by being around her. Cheryl and her husband were both heroine addicts for many years. During that life they lost their children, (they were taken away). Cheryl was a Christian and her husband was not. Eventually Cherly convinced her husband to go to church with her. Through the course of many trials and errors and much suffering they both kicked the heroine habit. They both developed a very strong faith in Christ. They just didn't believe their faith, they lived it. What better people could you find to be witnesses to non-Christians in jails and prisons. Are they judgemental of inmates? No way. They were there. These two people started this ministry because they felt they could touch peoples lives the way other Christians might not be able to, because they suffered similarily. They still do the jail ministries. Cheryl also babysits and takes care of the elderly. Cheryl has been through the ringer of suffering. Last year she was diagnosed with MS. Listening to her talk about it you can see some of her frustration. Waking up each morning not knowing if she can walk, or see, or have the strength to pick up her neices. She walks slower at church, her ankles are swollen and she looks so tired. When I asked her about it she praised God. Her answer to your question would be that God knew she needed to slow down a bit and let other people do things for her. She praises God for the pain and suffering. I can tell you for certain that she doesn't try to 'cram' her beliefs down anyone's throat. Yes, she openly praises God and speaks genuinely about the blessing of her illness. For a young Christian...such as myself, this is a huge testimony of what God can do in people's lives. I can see it. I can feel it. I can look at her and KNOW that God's love is shining through her. She believes and that is something anyone can see and feel. That is a true testimony, and witness for God. In my opinion, God uses our suffering to make us strong, to help us grow...and so people can be a testament to HIM through their suffering. The whole book JESUS FREAKS is about Christians willing to die and suffer for what they believe in. That is a testimony that is hard to refute. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:56 pm     You know, if you guys were Catholic like me you'd already have all the answers provided and not have to worry about what to think. Saves time and energy. And particularly, you wouldn't care what anyone thought about what you've been told to think, either, which also saves time and energy. I recommend it. I like rules. And Mystery, you should know better than to look around a Christian-theme thread - Catholics are not considered Christians (we are idol worshippers Moses would HATE us), and if you don't believe me look in the Yellow Pages. Therefore we're not qualified to comment. You can just come hang out with me in the tea room, if you want. We'll tell our best Sister Mary Scapular stories and get drunk, in the best tradition of good little Catholic girls. |
Cajunrambler | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:57 pm     Thanks Kearie You said a lot in that note how God allows suffering to make Himself strong so and that they can be a verbal and visual witness for God's grace and love. Three years ago I lost my eyesight due to macular degeneration and wondered why. I was very faithful and active in serving the Lord. I saw the hand of God moving me back home to minister in a different field and have brought people in my life facing similar suituations. God had a purpose and it was not for me to understand, but to thank Him that He loved me enough to carry me through it. |
Drpepper | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:02 pm     Cajunrambler, All I can think is WOW. I would love to have someone so strong in my life as you. May God bless you and keep you close. |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:05 pm     Goddessatlaw...I'm southern baptist and have always considered Catholics to be Christians. Baptists just don't use a priest for confession or an intercessor. |
Goddessatlaw | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:10 pm     My last post here - and your opinion of the Virgin Mary is . . .? Uhhuh. Catholics take more prejudice off of fellow Christians than all other religions combined. Not specifying you or anyone on this board, Hillbilly. But ask any Catholic whether that's true. Thing is, we don't care 'cause we know we're right. (and PS just because we know we're right doesn't mean we think everyone else is wrong - there's plenty of room at the top) |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:11 pm     (((Cajun))) God does know what is best and allows us to suffer so that He might be better able to use us to serve him. Through our suffering, God can give us peace...no matter how hopeless it may seem. God bless you. PS...the bible does say, not everyone can be a foot, or a head. hehehe <giggles> It takes all kinds. |
Auntiemike | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:12 pm     How about changing the name of the thread to: "Jason Playing the Game" and leave the descriptive word out. The word "Christian" conjures up all this disagreement and misunderstanding and does nothing to address how Jason is playing the game. We, hopefully, can see he is a Christian by how his character is revealed. He is also human so forgiveness is a key element. |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:12 pm     ...guess I'm lost...I have Catholic friends and we basically believe the same about the virgin birth, Jesus is the Son of God, etc...where am I going wrong? |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:14 pm     "The whole book JESUS FREAKS is about Christians willing to die and suffer for what they believe in. That is a testimony that is hard to refute." Being willing to suffer and die for a religious cause is not necessarily a good argument for Christianity. That's the same argument used in defense of the suicide bombers in the middle east, not to mention the hijackers of the WTC tragedy. As for seeing the loving glow or whatever in the faces of the people you are referring to ("Her beliefs, her values shine through her and you know she is genuine.")...I remember seeing the same thing in the faces of those people that were followers of Marshall Applewhite, the leader of Heaven's Gate, whose followers followed him to their graves so they could meet the aliens. I commend your friends' dedication to helping others and her response to a horrible disease....she sounds like a good person to which some bad things have happened. I see that as simply: Sometimes "sh*t happens". |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:17 pm     As a Christian, I have always heard that Catholics aren't a Christian Faith teaching religion. To me this means they don't focus on teaching the way to salvation is through accepting Christ as a personal savior. (Which is, to me, the basic premis for any Christian religion) I have never thought that Catholics couldn't be Christians. I must point out, that I am in fact, very ignorant to the teachings of Catholics. |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:18 pm     Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? Why does he allow Christians to suffer? Well, consider this, Jesus never said that our lives would be easy if we followed Him...in fact, he said it would be filled with hardship. When He called His followers, He said 'Take up my cross and follow me.' If you remember, He is referring to the heavy wooden cross He was forced to carry to Golgatha...the one on which he was crucified. God never promised us an easy life...He only promised us the grace to bear it. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:27 pm     This whole discussion all boils down to something I posted awhile back.....it's all based on the definition of Christianity. I think Jason is playing a great game and doing so in a loving and nonjudgemental way, whether he calls himself a christian or not. *I* couldn't really say if he is playing the game "as a good christian", because (and I think this applies to everyone here) *I* don't really know what JASON's definition of his faith is to HIM. I believe that he can only go against his religion by acting in a way that is contrary to what he believes to be true in his own particular interpretation of that religion. |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:31 pm     ...well...at least I didn't get thrown to the lions for my commentary...at least not yet... |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:32 pm     Sanfran~~ Do you think these suicide bombers etc would be singing praises to their religious leader while being run over by steam rollers feet first? Do you think if they were being violently tortured they would eventually give in and say..."Okay, I don't believe in 'so & so'", to end the torture? These terrorist acts are based on killing others and standing for what they believe in. The person willing to die is dying instantly and at their OWN hand. I find a big difference in that. Personally, I'm glad I don't take life as...."Oh well, doo-doo occurs" because that would make the world and life a meaningles existence. |
Cajunrambler | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:36 pm     Sanfran, I think you are missing the point. A suicide bomber is one who has a warped sense of religous obligation, compelling him to destroy his own life and the life of others (innocent or otherwise). This is contrary to Christian belief that Christ came that to bring life, both physical and spiritual. A person willing to suffer for the cause of Chirst does so by the hands of others through persecution or by elements outside of his control such as diseases. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:40 pm     Kearie - "Do you think these suicide bombers etc would be singing praises to their religious leader while being run over by steam rollers feet first?" Yes....I do. "Do you think if they were being violently tortured they would eventually give in and say..."Okay, I don't believe in 'so & so'", to end the torture?" No...I don't. "Personally, I'm glad I don't take life as...."Oh well, doo-doo occurs" because that would make the world and life a meaningles existence." MY life is not meaningless at all. I see life as the chance to make a difference to people here right now. There is fulfillment in that. There is value in loving others, even whne they do not love you back, Sometimes sh*t DOES happen and some people deal with it gracefully and some people do not. Some people see it as a chance to grow and become stronger and some people see it as a trial to overcome so they can be happy in the afterlife. It is all as plain to me as what you believe is to you. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:46 pm     "I think you are missing the point. " Wasn't the point that christians suffered and died willingly because of their religious beliefs? That's what the suicide bombers are doing. It doesn't matter if the suffering comes from disease or the elements, does it? And wouldn't the suicide bombers see their problems in Palestine as "persecution"? |
Twiggyish | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:49 pm     There are many facets to Christianity, we are all different. It just isn't fair to lump all Christians in one basket. Now back to Jason, just because he isn't exactly playing by the principles he may have been taught, it doesn't mean he isn't a Christian. He is human. We can't draw a conclusion based strictly on one individual's actions in the house. |
Wcv63 | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:52 pm     As a proper southern gal I've been brought up with the instruction that there are two subjects which are not appropriate for discussion in social situations; religion and politics. I've found that generally debating the pros and cons of different religions is a futile prospect. Therefore, I bid adieu to this thread, and like a proper southern lady, wish ya'll the best of luck. It's not only a little warm in here....it's humid as well. Anybody need a hanky? (Either to blot your brow or wave it to signal a truce?) |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:54 pm     Sanfran... For me..there is a difference between 1) taking a stand for what you believe and willing to die rather than denounce my Lord and Savior...and 2) killing someone else because they didn't share my beliefs...which is what these homicide bombers are doing. I respect that you have chosen the path that you have...it is your choice. I'm certainly not trying to proselytize anyone (REALLY!). I am only trying to explain things that others wonder why we think this way. I am well aware that Christians seem to be strange/peculiar to others. Faith is a hard concept for some to grasp. God has given everyone 'free will' to choose. Who am I to try to force something on others when God doesn't. |
Wiseolowl | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:03 pm     I belong to a Protestant denomination positioned historically between Roman Catholicism and evangetical.. As kids , in preparation for Confirmation we studied our Catechism (sp) which was formatted on the basis of questions and answers which we were required to memorize. Forget most of it but the first question was: what is the Church ? answer : the community of Christian believers...ie whether you were RC , our denomination or some other it didn't matter. It's what in a person's heart that matters bearing in mind that acceptance of the tenants of the traditional Creeds , which are fairly universal in their content and accepted by the early Church before denominationalism set in provide a framework for theological discipline. ie your attendance record at Church , your financial givings, your denomination are not relevant. Throughout history many people who are not Christians in their hearts have used "the Church" for their own advancement - they are not the Church but those who would cite these failings use them as an excuse for their disbelief |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:04 pm     Thanks Cajun and Hillbilly for clarifying what I'm trying to say. I agree with the differences you shared Hillbilly. And Cajun put it well also. .... " A suicide bomber is one who has a warped sense of religous obligation, compelling him to destroy his own life and the life of others (innocent or otherwise)." while......"A person willing to suffer for the cause of Chirst does so by the hands of others through persecution or by elements outside of his control such as diseases." |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:13 pm     "For me..there is a difference between 1) taking a stand for what you believe and willing to die rather than denounce my Lord and Savior...and 2) killing someone else because they didn't share my beliefs...which is what these homicide bombers are doing." Of course...I agree with that statement...those are two different things. BUT....the Islamic extremists who feel it is their duty to kill the "infidels" are doing so in the name of *their* religion. If that is what their religion tells them, then they are doing the "right" thing as good Islamics (or at least that particular sect). Of course, we believe what they are doing is wrong, because we do not believe the same things. I think it's a "comparing apples and oranges" thing. Saying they are wrong for doing what they do because those sectarian Islamic beliefs do not mesh with your Christian ethics is a bad example. It's like saying they are not as faithful because they don't choose the same way to die and for the same reasons as Christians do. Personally, I don't think that refusing to say some words in order to stop torture and murder is a smart thing to do. If there was a god and if that god knew you were coerced, would he hold it against you? Apple and oranges.... |
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