Archive through August 08, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive One: Christian Jason Playing the Game (Archive): Archive through August 08, 2002

Vancouvergirl

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hey, I just wanted to see how anyone felt about him and how he is playing this game as a christian. Is he keeping his faith or is he becoming sinful or sneaky?
Christianity is always a good topic for discussion. I know when Vecepia won Survivor some people felt that she was hypocritical, deceptive and basically gave all christians a bad name.
I wish more people would realize that being a christian certainly does not mean that we are perfect in any way.
Being a christian means we want to be like Jesus and follow his teachings and examples. It does not necessarily mean we always do, because we are only human and we are all sinners on this earth, whether we want to admit or not. It sucks how some people think that christians are "holier than tho" or that we are pure hypocrits. Christians, I believe, are the most prejudiced people on earth these days. Even though the American coin says "In God We Trust" how come schools do not use the Lord's Prayer?

I could go on and on, but I would love to hear other people's comments on this subject.

Battlestar

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
In God We Trust was a political addition to the money during the 1950's when there were godless commies under every bed.

Oregonfire

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:01 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm pretty sure I can project the future of this kind of thread by now. Debating, heated debating, name calling, hurt feelings, and *bloop* gone from the board.

Vancouvergirl

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, good point, thank you. I was not aware of that, as I am Canadian.

In our Canadian national anthem it says "God keep our land, glorious and free.... Oh Canada, we stand on guard for thee"

When I was in grade 1 I remember having to say the Lord's prayer every morning. And that was stopped shortly after. I think the reason was so that it would not upset others who had other religious beliefs.

Vancouvergirl

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oregonfire,
Name calling, hurt feelings, etc., is not the point of this discussion.

I am interested in hearing other people's opinions on Jason and how people feel that christians put in situations like this are expected to act. If Jason has any certain expectations on him and his actions because of his self-professed christianity.

Sanfranjoshfan

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"Hey, I just wanted to see how anyone felt about him and how he is playing this game as a christian. Is he keeping his faith or is he becoming sinful or sneaky?"

What's being a Christian have to do with anything in this game? I don't remember a commandment that says "Thou shalt not strategize and misdirect in the BB game." I don't think it says that in the Koran or the Torah either.

It is a GAME....no matter whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or atheist....if being sneaky in a GAME is "sinful" then a lot of people are going to hell for playing chess, poker, and
To Tell the Truth". Uh....except maybe for Roddy, since that is not even a part of his belief system.

This isn't "real life"....it's a GAME with real people PLAYING it. (key word is "play")

JMO

Dee723

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:10 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL. Yup, good prediction. I don't think Jason has lied or done anything wrong to this point. He's been quiet and has led Roddy to believe that he's on his side, but I don't think I've ever seen him verbalize any promises to anyone but Mar and Dani. Amy was much more hilarious--carrying around her bible and saying "f-n •••••, ••••••••, etc..The two somehow did not seem to mix. LOL.

Oregonfire

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Vancouvergirl, I know you mean well, but from my experience, this type of subject matter typically degrades from intelligent discussion, then to heated discussion, next to name calling, after that to hurt feelings, and finally to *bloop* being gone for the board. Maybe this time it won't. Just thought I'd prepare you for what *could* happen. I'm out of this one myself.

Vancouvergirl

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sanfran:

IMO, it is a "reality game" so being a christian is part of Jason's reality.

As a christian, I am sure I would take my religion and beliefs into the house to play the game. And I think it would be hard to not strategize and be sneaky - how could you play a game like that, hoping to win, without being a little sneaky or misleading? I do not know if it is sinful, and you're right, if it is, then a lot of people would be going to hell for playing chess, poker, etc.

But on the other hand, Jesus died for our sins, so our sins have already been forgiven.

I do not mean to judge Jason. I am merely curious of other's opinions!!

Drpepper

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Vancouver, I think he is doing GREAT! I do understand where your coming from, and in a perfect world, you shouldn't get bashed for asking a wonderful question. He seems to be a fine person and I believe he is holding himself in a position to be proud of.

Vancouvergirl

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Dr. Pepper
I agree. I am glad he won the Letter from Home.
His parents must be proud. I hope he can hold through keeping his morals and beliefs in tact as much as he can.

I think the only alliance Jason has made is with Danielle and I think he will stick to it to the end. He seems to look up to her and I hope the two of them can work it be the last two.

Sanfranjoshfan

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Vancouver - If you feel that Jason should not be judged, then why do you want others to express their judgements on whether or not Jason is being a "good Christian"?

And if we "are already forgiven" then that answers your question, doesn't it? He (and anyone else in the house) is not doing anything that is "unforgiveable". (And the "died for our sins" thing is just your opinion....like this post is just my opinion)

Still....it's a game. They call it a "reality game" because it is "real" people playing a "game"...rather than actors memorizing and reciting scripts. No matter whether he is Hindu or a Catholic or an agnostic....as long as he is not breaking any rules of the game, he is not doing anything wrong at all.

It's a game, a game.....

JMO

Becca

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
As a Christian, I think you are asking a tough question. In some ways it is a game, so rules change. People come in there knowing that people are going to be evicted and that everyone wants to win. So, actions and attitudes are not the same as in real life. We can't hold people to the same standards because everyone agreed to relax the standards when they entered the game. Yet, it's hard because this game involves moving human chess pieces and human beings are people.

However, does this mean that I think that it's no holds bar...? In my personal opinion no because whatever happens Christians are witnesses for Christ, and everything we do should be glorifying him. I'm not sure that Jason would be glorifying Christ if he decided to copy Will's actions.

Right now Jason is an amazing ambassador for christianity. So many people stereotype Christians (especially born again ones) as naive, judgemental, etc.) I think that he really is an example of what Christianity is all about, and its can't be easy for him. I can't imagine what it is like living in a house like that on national t.v. It's got to be tough.

This being said, I don't think it is for any of us to say this is the line and if a Christian crosses it, they are hypocritical etc. First of all, none of us know what we would do if we were in that situation. We might act horribly? Who are we to judge anyone? It's not our place.

I think that the line is between the person and God, and I think it honestly comes down to are you being a good witness for Christ. Yet, don't expect Jason to be perfect, because he's not. If he was perfect, he wouldn't need Christ.

Snee

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
van, i have to agree with sanfran on this one (i do so often anyway, why not in this thread too!). i feel that this game is very much like a good chess match or a game of poker. lying, cheating, scheming, and manipulating are perfectly acceptable. i think jason is doing well leading others to make some false conclusions. i don't think he is completely comfortable with outright lying and he said as much in one dr entry early on in the show. he also said that the time was coming when he would have to do things like that. i think jason's Christian beliefs come into play when people are being mean to each other and he, for the most part, suggests they stop. he hasn't gone over the snee-line, when the game becomes personal. so, ramble off: i think jason can play a moral game while playing 'the game'.

p.s. van, do you remember when the 'God keep our land' part was changed in the cdn anthem? after some controversy it was changed back with, i believe, the sentiment that God could refer to anyone's god. just a thought.

p.p.s. sneeworld is on vancouver island. *wave wave*

Goddess146

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
President Bush is Christian. He is willing to play rough games and still be moral.

President Clinton is a Christian. He was not willing to play hardball with terrorists but was willing be adulterous.

Christians are mearly people just like you and me.

Drpepper

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sanfranjoshfan, I hadn't given to much thought to someone telling another person how they think someones doing, as a person being judged, just merely their insight. No need to reply.

Biggusbrotherus

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Christians play games like Balderdash and Monopoly that require "un-Christian" behavior like bluffing, lying, and exploitation. It's part of the game. BB3 is a game. I don't think Jason (or anyone else) should be judged for "how they play the game" -- as long as they abide by the rules and don't cheat. Lying, as I recall, isn't prohibited in the BB3 rulebook.

Sanfranjoshfan

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess146 - "President Bush is Christian.".....that was masterful....segue from religion to politics in one sentence!

:-)

Becca

Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I totally agree, so far Jason's actions have been wonderful, and he is playing a moral game. I think his playing so far has been brilliant. I don't think any of the houseguests who get evicted from his playing are going to come back angry our mad at him (at least they shouldn't) He never told them he wasn't strategizing, they just assumed. I think the couples especially Roddy have a sense of an entitlement, but Jason never told Roddy to trust him.

Dani is right the houseguests are stupid if they think Jason would just throw away a chance at 500k
However, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Moedog

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Vancouvergirl wrote, "Being a christian means we want to be like Jesus and follow his teachings and examples."

What would Jesus do?

I doubt he'd be on BB3 trying to win big bucks.

Goddess146

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sanfran(bb1)joshfan, I was trying to pull what Roddy calls a "strawman" argument.

Sanfranjoshfan

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Drpepper, I know you said there is no need for me to reply, but in order to defend my previous posts, I must.

The original question was "Is he keeping his faith or is he becoming sinful or sneaky?"

I don't see how anyone can answer that without making a "judgement" as to whether or not Jason is being a good christian. The question was not simply asking "how he was doing" in the game....but whether he was being "sinful". I gotta say....that sounds like judging to me.

To answer that question directly, I would have to say that (if I believed in that particular religion) that I don't think he's being "sinful", although he IS being "sneaky". Being sneaky is part of the game....like distracting a chess opponent from paying attention to his queen so you can capture it. That is my judgement of his GAME playing. As far as whether or not he is being true to HIS faith, I couldn't say....that's only possible for him to answer. His faith and his interpretation of his religion is something that only he knows.

As for whether or not Jason is doing okay in the game...he is doing GREAT! I love the way he has Roddy snookered....I hope he goes far!

C1mag

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that Jason has been consistantly moral in this game. He builds his moral values based on his religion so it is relevant to point that out. I always get a little pissed when someone expects a "Christian" not to play these reality game shows based on the same rules because it would subject them to the wrath of God.

God isn't an idiot. There are lies that are meant to hurt, and then there are lies that are meant to win a contest. There is a big difference. Believe it or not, God isn't floating above us with a score card. He knows our hearts better than any man possibly could. I believe Jason would never lie or backstab someone in this game to hurt them, but may reluctantly lie to someone in order to win a contest. Backstabbing someone in a game where backstabbing may be paramount to getting to the next level is also acceptable based on the rules. Again, God clearly gets the difference.

People also have to understand that the church is filled full of man made rules and regulations that must just make God shake his/her head with disgust at how manipulative some people will be. The bottom line is that this is a game where lying and backstabbing are within the context of the game. The type of lying and backstabbing accepted is very different from the typical betrayl of a daily friend where it causes long term emotional damage.

I have been so impressed at how Jason has handled the filthy nature of some of the conversations. He isn't there too judge and he doesn't do that. I respect him a lot. I still scratch my head at the backlash that Vee got because I don't recall any "lie" that she told someone in survivor that hurt them to the point of damaging that persons life. She played the game to win. She broke promises to keep certain ones in if it didn't benefit her. I'm sure God fully understood. She kept her morals in tact. Never talked trash, and played within the guidelines of the rules. She emerged the winner in the end and rightly so. She didn't allow someone the opportunity to throw up her religion as a reason not to play the game based on the rules. The same applys to Jason.

Sanfranjoshfan

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess146 - Uh...."strawman" argument?

WHOOOOSH!

That was the sound of whatever that means going right over my head. I never heard him explain that before. Of course, had I heard Roddy actually explain it, I might have dozed off and missed it anyhow. :-)

Btw, thanks for clarifying that I am a Souza fan not a "Mewwit's boyfriend" fan! ;-)

Ryanc2002

Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I can not post in this thread without pissing way too many people off, so just consider this a friendly Hello, telling everyone that I am on the boards tonight.