Archive through August 05, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Two: Did Chiara use it? (No - she did not use POV): Archive through August 05, 2002

Abigail1970

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
But Zeyna I don't think they started talking about the 'girl power' while Tonya was still in the house....

Espen

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Just to throw in another idea (this really IS like Chess this year).. What if Roddy, Eric, Josh, Chiara and (in their mind) Jason work a deal with Gerry to insure he votes Lisa out? That could sway the balance of power in their favor.. Ironically however, they already THINK they have the power, so they will most likely not try to make Gerry change his vote.. thus losing something they could have had.. oh the irony of it!... It all comes down to Jason again..

Zeyna

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Chiara was upset that Dani voted for Tonya because of the girl alliance in a round about way. At the time, they were already 2 women down and there was A LOT of talk about girls vs guys. If Dani was to be angry (which Chiara is worried about), she could easily bring this up.

Earthmother

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gerry may have made people dislike him, but he is still there. Could that be because he didn't get all caught up in personal friendships? This always seems to be the downfall of these players. They just don't get that a few weeks together and forming a bond does not mean you'd be willing to give up half a mil for them. I would agree with Chiara's new found strategy if it indeed was hers. She is playing for Roddy not for Chiara. It's like she is saying "I love you" and his response is "then keep me in the house."
That is not construed by me as unconditional. She can't catch a break here because she isn't using her head she is using Roddy's (pardon the pun). She's hinted at the guy/girl thing all along and talked to Lisa and Dani more than once about it. She let Roddy lead her to believe she was wrong, when she was finally going to make an independent decision. When she says stuff like "Eric and I are closer than Lisa and I", those are Roddy's words not hers. If she gets kicked to the curb then she did it to herself. She is acting like a love sick teen and we all know the dangers that befall that kind of behavior, usually very poor choices which you have to take the consequences for.

Lilacs04

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Zenya, Danielle was never really friendly with Tonya. Chiara, however, has been friendly with Lisa. I think Chiara not using the veto WAS a smart move but voting to evict Lisa is not. Roddy is right, she will go when he tells her to.

Lurknomore

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
San Fran...does anyone ever know for sure what Josh is gonna do about anything?

Wait, wait there is one time...run around like a ferret gossiping and shooting off his mouth. That we can all count on. But vote wise? Naw can't ever be sure. He'll only go with the deal du jour. But since Roddy seems be be pulling his strings well, I'd guess he will vote to evict Lisa.

Lurknomore

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
One other point...somewhere up there someone said Chiapet knows about the J/M/D alliance. She does? To the best of my knowledge my gang is still under wraps. Have I missed something?

Zeyna

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I see your point Lilacs. I'm just saying that Dani can't freak out that Chiara voted for a girl when she did the same. If she cared *SO* much about the girls, she would have put up with Tonya.

Muse

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think much of Chiara selling out Lisa because I feel like she's doing it for some pretty poor reasons. I can't believe she honestly thinks it's better to have Eric in the house than Lisa. She seems to be doing it for Roddy's approval. She could easily say she wants to keep Lisa because she's her friend (whether she dislikes Lisa or not), and thus keep an ally around. Everyone would understand...even Roddy, who *still* doesn't trust her completely even after she said she'd get rid of Lisa.

I can understand someone lying in this game if it's really in their best interest...if it's purely strategy. I might not enjoy seeing it (especially if the person being lied to is someone I like), but I'd understand it. But in this case, Chiara's selling out for some pretty messed up reasons. She's not loyal, and she's not smart. IMO.

Zeyna

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I never got the feeling that Chiara and Lisa were close at all. I agree, it looks bad that she's betraying Lisa, but in her mind, Roddy is a better bet - he probably is right now. Lisa does not particularly connect with Chiara. She likes Dani more, so for Chiara, I don't really see this as a bad option. However, Eric will not think much of Chiara for betraying Lisa, so I'm very confused as to what is the best scenario for her.

Lilacs04

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that Chiara's best bet would be to keep Lisa. Roddy is going to dump Chiara at the end anyway (not romantically, in the game I mean) so it's better to have a potential ally (Lisa) around rather than someone who is closer to Roddy. Kiki is DUMB!

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lurknomore - "San Fran...does anyone ever know for sure what Josh is gonna do about anything?"

I know....that's my point. Everyone seems so sure that he will be one of the three votes to keep Eric, but I'm not sure of that at all.

Wedge

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think she ( Chia) is voting against her "so-called-friend" ..whatever thats worth coming from her... not only for Roddy's approval, but also that would be one less female in the house for her to compete with. And we all know how jealous she is over Roddy attention swaying....I think things are gonna get GOOD when Lisa finds out Chia voted to evict her and then when Eric walks out Chias expression...Its gonna be a Kodak moment.

Beagle

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Josh is the wild card for sure. Who knows with that guy. He's all over the place. Maybe the DR comments on the next show will bring us closer to knowing what he's actually going to do.

Oregonfire

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:14 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Kiki's gotta pull her head outta her private bits. It's too early in the game to turn on your supposedly closest friends, even if it's just for appearance sake. Everyone would understand if she had said "but Lisa's my friend, I have to vote to keep her." The Core Four are/were just too backstabbing as a group to stick it out. The are on the decline big time. After this week they will not the numbers to have much of an effect, and what effect they would have had will be nullified by turning on each other. Classic stuff here.

Earthmother

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bottom Line:

NONE OF THEM KNOW FROM NUTTIN' AND NEITHER DO WE?

Things to remember..lies, backstabbing, hoh, pov, new twist, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Bmh

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
lol Earthmother you are correct..but I am still 100% confident in saying that Eric will be going this week..now all I gotta do is hope and pray D/J/M or even L get HOH this week!

Keiffer

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lots of good points here on this thread, and I like how 95% of it hasn't been the bashing of Chiara. Only a few hold outs that can't help it.

That said I do think that both Jason and Josh are still wild cards when it comes to voting. I mean just a day ago I would have thought that Chiara was 100% voting out Eric. Josh listened to Eric selling him out to Gerry in the HoH, and Jason is still trying to straddle the fence between the guys, and Danny.Either of those guys could end up going in any direction, and we may not know or have any idea of who is going until Julie says it Thursday night.

I still think that Chiara based on the best info she has right now is smart to vote out Lisa. She has the potintial to end up with an Alliance that includes Roddy, Josh, Jason, and her.

I think that the voting decisions by Josh, Jason and Chiara are going to change a few more times between now and Thursday, and that they may not even know themselves until the go to the DR to vote. I still think there will be a GT session in which Lisa and Daniel get ahold of Chiara and change her mind again.

Draheid

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:36 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
IMO - The only real reason Chiara is wanting to vote out Lisa was because Roddy indicated an interest in "Getting To Know Her".
Again, IMO, Chiara is afraid that:
A) She's not as pretty as Lisa
B) She's not as smart as Lisa
C) She's not as feminine as Lisa
D) She's not as 'talented' as Lisa (*wink*)
E) She's NOT LISA!!!

FWIW - JMO

Ginger

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Chiara may be saying NOW that she and Lisa are not very close, but this is not what she's been saying for the past several weeks. As for the girl power alliance, it was there from the start in one form or another. First it was Lisa, Chiara, and Tonya discussing how they wanted to make it to the final 3 together and promising that they'd be a secret alliance against the guys in the 6-pack (Rod, Eric and Josh). Dani (and Amy and Lori) were NOT part of this back then, but once Tonya left, Dani sort of slid in and became the Tonya replacement--at least in Chiara's mind, and to some limited extent in Dani's mind.

Those who say that we would bash Chiara no matter what she did are really insulting the intelligence of the posters here. There are several HGs who I have liked at some points and disliked at others, based on their actions. I am not invested in singling out anyone for sheer condemnation or adoration. I simply watch the feeds and show and feel how I feel based on what I see. I for one would be more than happy to CHEER for Chiara if I saw her do her own thing, stick up for Lisa because she did PROMISE Lisa she would, and forget about what Roddy thinks of her doing that. It's so clear to me that Roddy is doing exactly what he wants to do in the game, regardless of his feelings of romance or friendship for Chiara. Chiara is not capable of that. To me, it was clear that she was proposing her vote against Lisa plan simply to get positive attention from Roddy. I feel sorry for this woman who needs male attention so desperately.

Keiffer

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ginger do you leave no room at all the game wise it could maybe be the best move for Chiara to vote out Lisa? Do you not accept that perhaps if she thinks she gets into a four person alliance by doing this that it could be a smart play?

I like that you proclaim that you think you could congratulate CHiara if she acted on her own, but in some ways she is here. Yes it also bennifits Roddy, but because it is good for ROddy does not exclude that it is also good for Chiara.

If Chiara just votes for Lisa out of friendship she will get bashed for letting feelings get in the way of game playing. If she votes for Eric to sttay then she is bashed for being a pawn to Roddy..... she can't win in this situation, and we will not know which was the correct path for another week or so.

Oregonfire

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 02:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, now Dani knows that Chiara is going to vote to evict Lisa, because Marcallas just told her.

Ginger

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Keiffer, I think a vote from Chiara to keep Lisa IN the house would be good strategically. Why? Because Lisa is really her biggest ally, the same way that Roddy and Eric are to each other. Both men have made it clear to each other that they will boot the women they care for in order to win the game (or come in second place). Lisa and Chiara, though they seemed to have made the same agreement in the first couple of weeks, are now both walking around with their heads in love mode, forgetting about the game entirely (in Lisa's case) or playing the game as if it's the subplot to a romance novel that they are starring in (as in Chiara's case).

I don't know that Chiara is to blame for trusting Roddy. I mean, why shouldn't she? It's complicated. But she DOES trust him, and has assumed time and time again that he is looking out for her best interest above all others, as she is for his. We see this over and over and over that this is not true--Roddy even went so far as to tell Gerry that he "understood" if Chiara had to be nominated.

My point? No how, no way do I see this move to betray Lisa working in Chiara's favor. If Chiara took a moment to think critically about this, I think she would realize this too. My main reason for not crediting Chiara for the strategy angle in this decision is Chiara herself. During the big "should I vote out Lisa" talk, her tone was all about wanting Roddy to think she was great, not about winning the game. She even wove little questions into the talk ("Do you like me?"). As a game player, I see her as very weak. I'm not saying that sticking by Lisa would win her the game, but it would give her more power to go further in it, in my opinion.

Pulk

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So Lisa has been sympathetic towards Chiara with her decision not to use the veto. How does everyone here see Lisa reacting to the fact that Chiara will have voted against her. Will she feel betrayed or will she been mad enough to put Chiara up if she wins HoH?

I know Josh will have done a lot less to hurt Lisa than Chiara will have done but will Lisa react in the same way to Chiara's betrayal as she has done to Josh's plans and to an extent Gerry?

Oregonfire

Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And of course now we have a camera white-out: all four feeds on Lisa/Eric in the hammock, Josh at the patio table. What are the players up to inside?