Archive through August 12, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three: Is this dumb thinking?: Archive through August 12, 2002

Dfwteddy

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Perception/altered reality: I think Roddy is the strongest player, therefore he is the strongest player.

Reality: Roddy hasn't been able to control as much as he thinks (or the others perceive) he has.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I DO think they want Josh out. They hate his guts. I also think that the days of Roddy being the kingpin in the house have long since passed. He has done nothing in this game correctly, and Eric is likely not returning to sit with Roddy and play the game badly. Nobody that is left in this game believes he pulls Chiara's strings anymore, Eric is gone, Lisa has no real reason to trust him, Danielle is thrilled because Eric is gone, and getting rid of Josh ends the six-pack coalition, whatever that was. Roddy did nothing to make this game better for himself, and the impression the other players had of him being THE ONE TO BEAT were completely in error. There is no evidence that Roddy is thought of as a strong player anymore.

Eden

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Between Josh and Roddy there is no contest, Roddy is the greater threat. Josh has played himself out. From here on out he's a body in a bed and nothing more. Even if he made it to the end a la Will (which I think is a ludicrous proposition), he would never win.

At this point they all seem to see that Roddy is the threat but are too afraid to trust the others to vote the same, fearing they will be exposed if they are abandoned when the votes are counted.

I'm surprised they haven't really considered the ramifications of each person who potentially might reenter the game. If they would do that, how could they do anything other than vote Roddy out?

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
What has Roddy done to make you think he is a threat??? Neither Josh nor Roddy has done a thing to make them a force in this game. Time to get rid of dead weight. Get rid of Josh the mosquito, then let Roddy sit for a while and do more of what he has been doing. Nothing.

Seanflynn

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecker
I can respect your comments about Eric, but where your argument collapses is that in any combination of Roddy vs Danielle, Jason, Gerry or Marcellus if Roddy is put up next week, he is an automatic vote to keep Roddy in.
At this point, Josh might not be.
Also, Eric never showed any signs of acting on his own. This could change, but up to the point he left, he was Roddy's puppet.
Sorry, his possible return makes Roddy's eviction much more important right now for the 4 HGs mentioned above.

Mystery

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eden, I agree. Regardless of their skill at playing the game, I think that Roddy and Eric will be a team if Eric comes back, and it will be much harder to get rid of either one of them.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I want someone to tell me what Roddy has done to make you think he knows what he is doing in this game. He has not made even ONE smart move. Name one smart move by Roddy, please.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree, Eden. Look at it this way....no one will even talk to Josh, must less align with him. If Josh stays, he's on his own....and without Roddy, Chiara would pretty much be on her own. There is so much animosity between the two of them ()Josh and Chia), I don't see them hooking up to form a coalition.

Roddy in the house would still have some back up from Chia, at least more so that Josh would.

It isn't so much a matter of whether or not Roddy should be ousted because he is "all powerful" at this point, it's more a matter of *keeping* the one who is *least* powerful. They should boot the Rodster now and boot the Jest...er....Joshter next time.

Btw, the power of the week is not so much determined by the ringleaders as much as by who wins HOH. Even a powerless Josh as HOH could make a big change. My fear is that Roddy as HOH would make better decisions at nomination time than Josh would. I could see Josh nominating Chia and Lisa out of revenge and spite....but Roddy could go after Dani and Marcellas which would be a much smarter move as a strategic power play.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Roddy against Danielle, Roddy goes. Roddy against Lisa, Roddy goes. Roddy against almost anyone (except Gerry), and Roddy is gone. The main reason for me wanting Josh gone is that he is in the way of the true game player. He has been there too long and he is causing problems. The smart move for sanity is to get rid of Josh now, but I see nothing wrong with dumping either one. Keeping Roddy in the house will not make him a threat. He never knew what to do when he had the power.

Minnyace01

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eden - I agree with you. Chiara made a big mistake when she put up Roddy. This is the opportunity that the Clique should be looking for. What happens if Josh goes, Roddy survives, and Eric walks in the door. The power will really swing back to the Core 4. I firmly believe that Eric will join Roddy again and Eric will convince Lisa to rejoin their group. Remember that Chiara went to Lisa to explain her vote to her before Dani told her about it, so this can be something that she can live with. And with the information that Lisa has, should one of the 4 win HOH, the pecking order will begin, with Dani on the chopping block. Even if Tonya comes back, it will strengthen Roddy's side. The big question then is where will Lisa fall. Right now, she's in Dani's camp, but that could change.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:49 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Everybody seems to be concentrating on Roddy's power in voting blocs. Looks at it as who would be the smartest player when it comes to HOH decisions.

In the past Roddy nommed Amy and Marcellas (the lame decoy and target play...but so far it is the only one that has actually worked). The thing is....Roddy is smart enough to learn from misatkes the others have made, but so far Josh has not prven that to be true for him.

At this point in the game, Roddy has a better understanding of how the coalitions stand and how to break them up than Josh does. As HOH, Roddy would strike a strategic move and Josh would simply crash and burn trying to take as many enemies with him as he could.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Think of this....if Roddy survives on a 2 to 3 vote, you know he'll figure out who voted for him and if he gets HOH they will be the nominees. If Eric is back, Roddy can count on him to vote whoever he wants him to.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:58 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Getting Eric out worked wonderfully. Getting Amy out meant absolutely nothing. Any of the players that get HOH would have a strategic advantage. There is no evidence that Roddy has any idea what he is doing. I am still waiting for a move that Roddy has made that we could consider as a smart one. Sadly, I can't think of any.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:59 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Eric has a 25% shot of returning. Don't buy the housewarming gift.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The point here is not that everyone is saying that Roddy is all-powerful. The point is that he should go because he is simply more powerful than Josh. Those are the choices....Roddy and Josh. Josh is playing like an idiot, and one with absolutely NO power or common sense.

How does this make wanting to boot Roddy over Josh a dumb thing?

Pesto

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Woody,

I agree that Roddy's power is exagerrated as perceived in the house. I also agree that strategically it would be best to remove Roddy right now. In terms of his ability to play the game, he has been outmaneuvered but if I were D,J, M or E, I would fear him because of the pull he may have in the final vote. For example, if I am Dan this week, I'm thinking "..it's really tempting to go for Rod's jugular, but I can't be the one perceived to be his downfall, or else I may lose support in the end." Also, Dan, Jas, Mar are still in relatively strong positions in the house, and with Josh goin out, they aren't losing anything to Roddy this week, so why risk it?

The more I put myself inside their shoes, the more I see why they may keep Roddy for the time being.

Don't sleep on Mars either; his play is becoming more impressive, even with the emotional outbursts.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:15 am EditMoveDeleteIP
One more point about Roddy being a better player than Josh. Out of 4 nomination rounds, Josh has been nommed twice already. Roddy has been nommed once. This far, Roddy's behavior has kept him from making emotional enemies in the house, such as the ones that Josh has made. His ability to stay cool and generally get along makes him more powerful.

Case in point - right now Roddy may very well be safe in this round, simply because he has not blown up and ranted and raved like Josh did....that shows he is playing the game in a way that does not cause the other HGs to want to boot him simply to keep peace in the house.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It doesn't. The reason to dump Josh is because he is acting like a person who was addicted to drugs and was forced to quit cold turkey. I just have decided while watching the live feeds that another week of Josh's behavior is far more damaging than getting rid of Roddy. Roddy is not a threat in any scenario, and it is fun for me to watch him look rather useless. Josh leaving would make the place a better game to watch.

Eden

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wood, your points are compelling.... but not compelling enough for me to want Roddy to stay. Whether a real or imagined threat, Roddy is much more in this game than Josh. Josh is a dead man. He has virtually NO influence on anyone in the house or one potentially coming back into it (even Amy, to my mind). Can you say the same about Roddy? I don't think so. Why get ahead of yourself. Roddy is up THIS WEEK. No use waiting to see what or what might not happen. Take him out! Josh can go up again next week.

I agree with San Fran, while Roddy has miscalculated in the past there is no reason to think he will continue to, in fact, the opposite is true.

Maris

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
They need to vote Roddy out this week, Chiara cannot get HOH and the alliance is officially dead. Josh can be reined in. he has nobody to join up with other than possibly Eric if he gets back into the house. They can deal with Josh next week.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
This is a good discussion, but the point I am trying to make is that Roddy has played himself completely out of this game with ill-advised alliances and ego-driven comments.

Seanflynn

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Woodpecker
If Roddy stays and Eric comes back, there will be 8 house guests next week.
Roddy, Eric and Chiara are a block of 3. You can't presume that Lisa is not easily coopted back into that group.
My guess is that the returning HG becomes HOH; we don't know, but easily could happen.
So if Eric is HOH, that group could easily have 3 of the 5 votes needed to evict. THEY WOULD CONTROL THE GAME -- Roddy's power finally would come about because he now would have numbers in his favor.
Your theories have some merit, but the mathematical facts trump them.
Get rid of Roddy now.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, Woodpecker, I get it. You want Josh out so you can watch Roddy "look useless".

For me, the most exciting night of the house has been when Josh blew a fuse after being nominated. I found that way more entertaining than Roddy sitting there explaining clouds or something. It's the difference between watching the Trivia channel vs the Maniac channel.

Of course, you do have a point. I DO like watching Roddy....I think he's gorgeous! ;-)

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:25 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have every reason to think that Roddy will continue to blunder. If Roddy was really thinking, he would sever his relationship with Chiara completely. Totally write her off as a bad idea. Then he could begin to play this game like a real player. He needs to stop assuming that he is safe and make it happen. He is doing the same thing Eric did.

Woodpecke®

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL at Sanfran. I was just trying to give you something to look at for a couple more weeks.