Archive through August 12, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three: Christian Jason Playing the Game: Archive through August 12, 2002

Twiggyish

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
WCV, I'm leaving this thread, too. My heart is not in this discussion right now. Think I'll go hang in the Zen thread.

Kearie

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that my faith isn't something that can be understood by individuals trying to rationalize life. Faith simply isn't and never will be understood by rational means.

I do recall one of the philosophers trying to make a rational case for having faith in the teachings of "Christian Salvation". (Wish I could remember who it was degnabbit).

He said he had a few choices to make. He could either believe in God or he didn't have to.

If God doesn't exist and he died, whether he believed or not...nothing would happen. He would be dead. End of story.

However,

If God does exist, and he died he would either go to heaven or hell.
1) heaven if he lead his life having faith in God.
2) hell if he lead his life not believing in God.

His point was...what do I have to lose?

I don't think his line of thinking was entirely correct, because you can't fake faith. But I think he made some interesting points.

and Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda.

Mystery

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hillbilly....doh! I got saved without even knowing it! :)

Goddess, I never realized when I was growing up that Catholics weren't considered Christians. I'll sneak off with you and chat about scary nuns.

I agree with Sanfran that in these times, the idea of anyone being willing to die for their religion brings up scary images. And speaking of scary images, what's up with Josh and those lizards?????

Hillbilly

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
..'i got saved without even know it'

LOL...sorry Mystery, it don't work that way! :)

Kearie

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Have a headache. :)

Cajunrambler

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"what's up with Josh and those lizards?????"

He trying to convince them not vote for his eviction. All the humanoids are.

Vancouvergirl

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
In my own personal experiences, I had a very rough upbringing, broken family, alcoholic step-dad, schizophrenic mother - basically I had a bad attitude and I was a total shi*t and bad*ss in my teens and twenties. I was disrespectful, I drank, did drugs, lied, cheated, you name it, I did it. Basically broke almost every commandment there is to break.

I can relate Kearie's story of her friend Cheryl, as I know first hand that once you hit rock bottom and see life in devastation and see hurt and pain, then you can relate to others who are living that way and offer hope and help to those. It can make your faith strong in knowing that you survived, especially if it was God's voice that helped "save" you.

Even though I was being bad and evil, there was a spot for God in my heart (as I went to church as a youngster) but I chose to neglect him and religion for my own reasons. It wasn't until I really hit rock bottom that I chose to hear God's voice and accept his grace to save me and help me out of the place I had put myself in. I was totally led astray and I am sorry for the awful things I did, but today I am leading a better life, learning lots about being a good person, and every now and then I am in a debate between this little angel on my shoulder and this little devil, one tells me the right/good thing to do and other tells me to do the bad/evil thing. Every day I find it a challenge to "do what Jesus would do" in the same circumstances. My human nature is a selfish one.

But, it is my church and minister and christian faith that helps me get through it and make the right decision. I am grateful for all I have been through (good and bad) and for being able to live happily with God as my guide, so I am not led astray.

Which brings me to ponder - I wonder if Jason or any of his family have been in the "rock bottom" position or if they were all devote christians from day one?

I think he's playing a great game and I hope he can manage to be in the final two, while managing to keep his morals and values intact.

Snee

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 03:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
the wider meaning of catholic is: inclusive, broad-minded, tolerant (interesting)

the original meaning is: the community of Christian believers, i.e. some denominations have what they call the 'apostle's creed' which starts out--if i remember my creeds--'i believe in the holy catholic church. i believe in the forgiveness of sins...'

catholicism became what we today know as roman catholicism when the church divided into several different parts after the reformation. roman catholicism continued under the latin auspices.

i could be wrong about some of the details, but that is what i understand.

(just thought i'd throw that in there!)

Snee

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
dang, i just roddied and explained what a heckuva lot of people know! *hangs head*

Bridgetlovesbb

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Goddess said <<Catholics take more prejudice off of fellow Christians than all other religions combined.>>
UMMMM, trying being a Jehovah's Witness. (and yes we ARE Christians)

SanFranJoshFan said <<I think Jason is playing a great game and doing so in a loving and nonjudgemental way, whether he calls himself a christian or not. >>
I'm with you! I think he could be jewish, a buddhist, an athiest, or whatever he wants and he is still being loving! ANY person can be a loving and wonderful person!

I think this has been a great discussion! I for one know God's power. I am a recovering drug addict (clean for 7 yrs! yeah!) who then went to abusing alchohol.(dry for 6 years) Then i met my now husband who introduced me to God. I have never been to any rehab, just lots of prayers and good friends. I have a real friendship with God now and I dont know where I would be without Him today!

Verdana

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
[DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)].

Hillbilly says: God never promised us an easy life...He only promised us the grace to bear it.

Hillbilly honey, that makes for nice poety but just think about that for a moment. I'm here to tell you that if you ask me, God must be asleep at the switch because I really don't think that all the people who are suffering from HIV/AIDS, cancer, who are in comas, auto accidents, plane crashes (I could go on and on) really appreciate this "grace to bear it" stuff. Putting up with (bearing it) life-threatening diseases gracefully?...I just don't know how many people who are comatose are even aware of how they are putting up with illness gracefully. Some people were praying to Mr Christian God after 9/11 and I was asking: Why pray to this Christian God when he didn't prevent the tragedy in the first place? Remember, he's supposedly all powerful.
Supposedly there is nothing more powerful than the Christian God, according to Christians. Precious, something is wrong with this picture. It's a bit blurry.

Dear Mr/Ms Moderator: I want to thank you for not wiping out this thread out. I think this is an excellent critical thinking thread...sure beats the Live Feeds at times.

Hillbilly

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Verdana...sweety (said lovingly from one southerner to another)...I'm afraid I'll never be able to explain this to your satisfaction. No, I'm not being sarcastic either, I promise. As I said earlier, faith is a hard concept for some people to understand. You either have faith or you don't.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Exactly.

Mystery

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
People who believe that there is a God who is all-powerful but who lets horrible things happen have never been able to explain to me why they believe. They just have faith, that's all. Faith is believing in something without proof.

I personally don't have faith that such a being exists. I don't think it makes my life meaningless. I believe in people. I believe in trying to live a good life for the sake of living a good life; I don't need the threat of divine retribution or the promise of a heavenly reward. (I'm not saying that other people DO need those things.)

Faith is not a rational thing, which I think is why it's sometimes hard to have rational conversations about it.

Verdana

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
[DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)].

Well hello Hillbilly. I couldn't agree with you more baby. That's why I use the term "blind faith." Take it easy honey.

Hey Mystery: Now you're talking baby. Keep preaching!

Wcv63

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Faith is like romantic love. Both have no explanation, rhyme or reason and there are some who believe and others who don't.

My personal faith gives me strength, hope, serenity and joy. Without faith I would be a mess. It works for me. That's all I need to know.

Hillbilly

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Mystery...this is something that everyone must decide for themselves...noone else can make that choice. It's totally up to you.

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv63 - "Faith is like romantic love. Both have no explanation, rhyme or reason"

Well, that explains Roddy faith in Chiara!

Hillbilly

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
...naw Sanfran...that boy just plain out needs a whoopin...

Mystery

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Hillbilly, I don't see it as being a choice. I don't think that I chose not to believe. I can choose how I act every day but I don't think that I can choose what to think and feel. It's just part of me. As far as I can tell, the people who come knocking at my door on a Sunday morning might just as well be trying to get me to change the number of bones I have in my body.

Kearie

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Nice analogy Wcv. Thanks.

Kearie

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Verdana, honey, you forgot about all those innocent children being abused by adults. You forgot so many other victims of crime, abuse, neglect. How could a loving God allow all that to happen, especially the innocent children.

Romans8_1

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
We all have faith in something. Some have faith there is a God, some have faith there is not a God. Any rational being will agree that the question is not about faith, but in which faith we put our faith in. That is where we look at the evidence to see which faith is rational enough to put our faith in.

Yes, there are Christians who take most of it on blind faith, but that doesn't make it any more not true. I can take the fact the moon is held in orbit by gravity without understand how and without being able to debat it. It doesn't make it false. The same goes with Christianity. There are some of us who can debate it with great detail. But that has never won anyone to Christ. If a person is dead set against God, no amount of logical reasoning and proof will ever persuade them otherwise.

I also find it interesting that some say that they don't believe in God, so they don't worry about it. Well, I can believe that I'll never physically die, but all the belief in the world won't stop it. Our beliefs do not define reality, only our perception of it. Reality is what it is.

This is not a flame message, so please don't take it this way. I am happy for all the people that have contibuted to this thread and have found many common thoughts about God. What is being said here is a by-product of our culture we now live in. But by the mere fact that you are here, you have/are thinking about the most single important subject on the face of the earth. You have to get it right. Your very soul is at stake. I pray for open hearts for the truth and not closed minds and hardened hearts.

I was a sinner and lost. But by the grace of God I have been saved from my wretched life.

If anyone is truly interested in learning more about Christ, feel free to email me. If you have a stumbling block, God will show you the truth if you really are looking for the truth. God wants all of us to have a relationship with Him.


All glory and praise be to my loving father God,
steve

kasputis@attbi.com

Sanfranjoshfan

Monday, August 12, 2002 - 04:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Verdana made her point without having to mention every single instance of bad things happening. I don't know what your point is, Kearie, by pointing that out to Verdana.

This thread has been very civil up to now, but it appears to be getting personal...


JMO