Archive through August 12, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archives: Archive Three:
Christian Jason Playing the Game:
Archive through August 12, 2002
Drpepper | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 08:57 pm     Hey you missed one 5.Dr.Pepper LOL |
Cajunrambler | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 09:01 pm     Karuuna, I just so happen to be a forum moderate, not related to BB, but in any case. To be a "Christian" means to be a follower or a disciple of Jesus Christ just as a Buddhist is a follower or a disciple of Gautama Buddha. Christianity is not a system of works, like most world religions, but a faith and belief that Jesus is the Son of God. God provided a plan of redemption for mankind by sending Jesus to be born of a virgin, live a perfect life, fulfill the Mosaic Law and then to be crucified for the sins of mankind. Christianity teaches that God chose the Israelites, (the children of Abraham through Issac) to be his chosen people. The story goes on throughout the Old Testament of how God dealt with the Israelites as a nation. In the New Testament, it deals with the Jews and Gentiles as individuals. It reveals the plan of redemption by intorducing Jesus Christ which was a mystery in the Old Testament. That is my Theology class for today. So now we can get on with Jason and BB3 Please. |
Verdana | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 09:46 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. Karuuna wrote: But yet you, self-proclaimed expert on Biblical text and ancient Aramaic languages, can say authoritatively what it means. Okay. Honey, please tell me (quote it baby) where you read where I am a self-proclaimed expert on Biblical text. I've said nothing of the kind. You know, honey, you really start losing credibility when you start making up things that you claim someone has said. All I was saying, was that in the bible's I've seen the commandment reads: Thou Shalt Not Kill. If you want to use the word murder instead, go right ahead. My point was---which some people seem to have trouble grasping--is that this religious stuff is up for grabs. Go to one Christian church and they say kill means kill. Go to another Christian church and they will preach that kill means murder. Believe what you want to believe in or don't believe anything at all. All fine by me. I just don't read in that bible where Jesus says Thou Shalt Not Kill, except it's all right in such and such a case. I INTERPRET CHRISTIANITY AS JESUS LIVED HIS LIFE. Precious, I'm here to tell you that it's too bad the bible has anything to do with Christianity because I've never read in the bible where Jesus acted at all as his father in Heaven did. The Christian God is one vengeful, violent, barbaric, angry, jealous God...what a piece of work! He destroyed cities, killed women, men and babies. Remember the flood with Noah? Think about this: If that Christian God lived down the street from any of us, he would be locked up immediately as a threat to society. So why does Jason have a bible in the house anyway? I thought they were not allowed to bring in any reading material. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:00 pm     Verdana - I think they let him have it as a personal luxury item or something. As I recall, Jamie had the book "The Art of War" in BB1... |
Wcv63 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:08 pm     SanFran...it's not a personal luxury item but they can bring in a book based on religion. It can be the Torah, the Koran, the Bible (old or new) or a book about Confuscious, Buddism, Spirituality etc. Roddy claimed to have taken the Bible from his hotel room into the BB house. He says that is why the Gideons leave them there. They expect them to be taken. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:40 pm     Wcv63 - really? "The Art of War" is a book about military strategies isn't it? (I've never read it, but that's waht Amazon.com says it is). I am fairly certain, though, that that is the book Jamie brought into BB1. I remember thinking that it was a really odd choice for a beauty queen. |
Wcv63 | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:44 pm     That was my understanding. In BB1 they were allowed to bring in other books and if you remember the houseguests were reading a lot of the time or using the books to communicate without words. Eddie read his book almost every day. That all changed in BB2 and the only book allowed was of a religious or spiritual nature. |
Cyn | Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 10:48 pm     sanfranjoshfan, here's a quote. know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. when you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. if ignorant of both your enemy and of yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril. Sun Tzo. 500 BC. The Art of War. classic treatise on strategy. zen. |
Twiggyish | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:05 am     I think Will must have known, "The Art of War", too. Verdana, what has your post got to do with Jason? I haven't seen him with a murder weapon. Ok, I know you are speaking in general terms about Christianity. But, you can't judge all Christians by the actions of others. I am sure we could pick out the good and bad in all religions. As I said, religious choice is a personal matter. By the way, God is in charge of many religions besides Christianity..so if you don't want the ire of others, leave him out of this discussion. Let's get back to Jason, who is a good person and an excellent player. (IMO) |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:54 am     Verdana wrote: <All I was saying, was that in the bible's I've seen the commandment reads: Thou Shalt Not Kill. If you want to use the word murder instead, go right ahead. My point was---which some people seem to have trouble grasping--is that this religious stuff is up for grabs.> Oh pish posh, Verdana-baby. Your original point, from your original post, was that Thou Shalt Not Kill was an example of Christian hypocrisy. I think I have pretty well proved that you're mistaken about that. I've also said that I agree that there are *other* clear examples of hypocrisy in Christianity; and that I personally don't buy into such a thing as "justifiable killing". You can change your mind about your point if you want; but I ain't playing. You also wrote: <I just don't read in that bible where Jesus says Thou Shalt Not Kill, except it's all right in such and such a case.> Honey, according to the records we have (the New Testament), Jesus never even said "Thou shalt not kill". Ever. Period. That was Moses as revealing the commandments given to him by God. |
Costacat | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:12 am     Goodness gracious... are you folks STILL up in arms on this? Can't we all just get along? Religion is one topic on which NO ONE will agree 100% of the time. I am SO sorry I brought this freakin' thread back to the forefront. I should've let it die yesterday... |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:33 am     Costacat - why does this ongoing discussion upset you? Personally, I don't feel like I'm not getting along with anyone. I don't have to agree with someone to get along with them. In fact, I *enjoy* discussing these topics, because I think they're important and need to be discussed. Maybe some tone of voice indicators are necessary here. Because to me this is all relatively light-hearted debate. Nothing I've typed here has been in anger, or even mild aggravation. If you could hear my voice, the worst you would hear is some gentle chiding, but mostly you'd hear some respectful conversation with a hint of amusement. And if you could see my face, you'd see me smiling. If anyone has taken anything differently, than I apologize for the limitations of a typed forum. Because gently and with some bemusement both at myself and others - that's really how all my comments are meant. |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:42 am     I for one and thoroughly enjoying the discussion in this thread. |
Kearie | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:45 am     I completely agree with your post Cajun. Thanks |
Twiggyish | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:00 am     Kar, I agree with you, too. My point is this.. we can always pick out the negatives of a religious group. Then, take those negative points and draw a general picture. It doesn't mean those negative incidents or points reflect the whole group. I couldn't imagine trying to generalize the entire Christian religion. It is indeed a matter of interpretation. |
Karuuna | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:07 am     Twiggy: <My point is this.. we can always pick out the negatives of a religious group. Then, take those negative points and draw a general picture. It doesn't mean those negative incidents or points reflect the whole group. > I completely agree on that one, Twiggy. As a friend of mine once pointed out, the Christian church is founded on Peter, the same fella who denied Christ three times. It's silly of us to expect it to be perfect now. There are lots of wonderful things about Christianity; and a lot of sordid things. Kind of like most people, myself included.  |
Verdana | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 12:26 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. Frankly, I think this discussion is quite good and healthy, honey. Religion is always a red button issue because it is all about blind faith and interpretation. Someone asked what this has to do with Jason. Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to Religion in the House because I'm here to tell you that to me Danielle plays the religion card at times more than Jason. Baby, I heard her say that Kiki (I think she said Kiki) has a "potty mouth" and needs to find Jesus. That's laughable. What a bunch of bunk! Let me say that my sister is a fundamentalist Christian (don't ask me how that happened honey) and I've been around some her "Christian" friends who have "found Jesus" and honey they can talk circles around Kiki when it comes to using sexual language. The same is true for some pastor's children I've been around. So much for this "finding Jesus" stuff. I also heard Danielle say that if someone is having a health problem in their church that members of the congregation are called and asked to pray for that person. Well that's nice, but my first thought upon hearing that was: Well Danielle baby, you should be asking the congregation WHY your all-powerful and "loving" God allowed the person to get sick in the first place? Ever think about that, precious? How "loving" and "merciful" is it of a God to allow people to get sick and suffer when you, as the all-powerful God, could prevent it? But of course most Christians never think this that far through. They usually come up with some excuse for God by saying "we don't know what he has planned...oh it's all in his big plan." A pretty sadistic plan if you ask me, precious. Yes, there are problems with many other religions, but since BB3 is mainly in the States and most people in the States CLAIM to be Christian (many certainly don't show it by their actions), and since there are two vocal Christians in the house, that's why I personally focus on Christianity and the problems I have with it. Y'all take it easy. |
Vancouvergirl | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 12:31 pm     from RAIN - "I find this whole thread pretty offensive. I'm not a practicing Christian, but I do notice a lot of what I would consider Christian bashing on here. " How about a little respect for Christians? There is another thread also by a poster who obviously had an agenda. From MOEDOG - psst... it's a self-professed Christian who began this thread, Rain. Well, I am the "self-professed Christian" who began this thread, and my intention was certainly not to "bash" anyone for their thoughts or beliefs in any way. Nor was it my intention to "preach" to anyone either. Each person is entitled to their individual thoughts, feelings and beliefs and in no way do I have an "agenda" to "bash" or change those ideas or beliefs. If any of you had began reading from the very beginning of this thread (for some reason the original and preceeding archives are not included), then you would see what my original question was and the discussion/topic that I was hoping to explore. After reading all the posts I have learned quite a bit about how people perceive religion and christianity and about how religious beliefs are a part of this "reality game". I am not critizing Jason for being a christian merely because my original post labelled him as "christian." He is self-professed, so I am merely stating a fact and a basis for discussion. My intention was certainly to raise the issue of christianity and values and morals and how it plays into such a game of deception, backstabbing, dishonesty, lying, sneakiness and compromise. I don't think there is any "bashing" here at all. Most posters have been very open-minded and respectful of others opinions. I think most of us realize that religion is very personal and there is no right or wrong - just difference. It is a very touchy subject which must be approached appropriately. It is healthy to discuss such differences in order to break down prejudice in this world and learn to appreciate others for their differences. Too many people "bash" others for their difference, instead of accepting and embracing them. I thank the moderators for letting this thread continue - many posters may feel that it has nothing to do with the game, but the Jason/christian theme has come up on other threads, so I just wanted a forum to discuss the religion thing more deeply. Also, I feel that if anyone is offended by this thread, then perhaps they should choose not to open the link and read the posts. Simple as that. With respect.... |
Sanfranjoshfan | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:06 pm     Vancouvergirl - "Nor was it my intention to "preach" to anyone either. Each person is entitled to their individual thoughts, feelings and beliefs and in no way do I have an "agenda" to "bash" or change those ideas or beliefs." Well....I think that may be a little suspect, due to your post of Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 11:47 am....where you stated: "As a christian, my minister tries to instill a sense of duty on his congregation's part to remind people of Jesus and God and to let people be aware of their existence in today's world." and "Perhaps I was trying to raise awareness and support of christianity and basically just chose the wrong time and place." I'm not trying to be mean or confrontational....but it just seems to me that a Christian that believes she should "raise the awareness and support of christianity" because of a sense of duty from her minister is doing exactly what you just said you were not doing when you state: "no way do I have an "agenda" to "bash" or change those ideas or beliefs." Trying to "raise my awareness and support of chrstianity" feels, to me, like you are trying to change my beliefs. My awareness of christianity is already already very strong and I do not believe in it. Also, let me point out that I never thought of anything you said as "bashing" by any means. You have been very respectful. Since I was a part of this thread from the beginning, I've seen all the interaction. Since the beginning of the thread was archived, it could be a bit confusing to anyone that came here later. FWIW, the beginning of the thread can be found here: ../10972/1044833.html It would be great if the moderators in charge of archiving could post a link to the archive in the threads when they split it up for those of us who want to check it out from the beginning! JMO |
Moedog | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:08 pm     I thought that by pointing out to Rain that this thread was started by a Christian she would realize it's intent was not to bash Christians. Obviously, she doesn't agree. I think the posters here have been very respectful of each other's views. It's rare to see a discussion of religious beliefs NOT turn into a screaming match. This one has been very refreshing. I just wish it was here in it's entirety.
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Moedog | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:10 pm     Thanks for the link, Sanfran! : ) |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:17 pm     "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary..for those who don't believe, no explanation will suffice." anonymous It is not for us to beat religion into others but for the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men. All, we as Christians, are called to do is to verbalize the call to salvation and to tell others of Christ sacrifice...God has promised to do the rest. |
Mystery | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:20 pm     I knew I was making a mistake when I opened this thread! That's all I need is people verbalizing the call to salvation to me, when I thought I was going to read about how Jason is playing the game. |
Hillbilly | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:24 pm     ...lol... too late Mystery...you dun up and read the thread!.. |
Verdana | Monday, August 12, 2002 - 01:36 pm     [DISCLAIMER: Sometimes I use the words "baby," "honey" and "precious" in my writing. It is my writing style. It is not meant to be condescending or demeaning (as some have misinterpreted)]. You know honey, from my experience some people toss out the word "bash" whenever anyone comes close to lending a critical analysis or thought to certain subjects, especially subjects that are close to their soul. I'm not saying this is the case on this board, but from my experience, many people who claim someone is bashing their religious views aren't really secure in their own religious beliefs. If they were secure, it wouldn't bother them one way or the other what someone says. My sister is one example. She can't stand it when I go off on some of the big, wide holes in her religious views. She's yet to answer my question as to WHY it bothers her that I analyze her beliefs. And often we don't talk about it because she's pretty closed-minded being a Southern Baptist. There's a quote on the website I write for which says: "Fundamentalist Christians check their brains at the church door and pick up their crayons."---Bernie Ward Y'all have a good one honey. P.S. I'd love to get into a debate with Jason and Danielle because sometimes I get religious people all tangled up in conversations. |
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