Archive through July 21, 2002
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The ClubHouse: General Discussion Archives: Archive One: Its a game..it's a game..it's a friggen GAME folks...gawwwwwwwwddddd: Archive through July 21, 2002

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Btw, Whit.....I LOVED your initial post! :-)

They must just lose their way...I would imagine that if I hadda go to prison, I'd have it in my head to just keep to myself, not get involved, do my time and get out alive....but (if any of those prison movies I've seen is right) that doesn't happen....you get threatened and you get scared and you realize you can't do it alone....you hook up with allies and are forced to live a gang mentality til it's over.

That is what I ASSUME....really I am NOT an ex-con! LOL

I can see a lot of similarities of this "prison mentality" in BBprison.

Maris

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If I was looking for friends I guess the last thing I would do is call Arnold Shapiro and say "Count me in!!!"

Zachsmom

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL Maris..too funny..:)

Wcv63

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Who says you can't win the game without turning off every part of your personality with the exception of the "contestant"? Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't. Or so we can hope.

Besides, if we find people in the game that we like and/or identify with in some small way it is only natural for us to root for them. Having favorites is part of the game.

Katrina

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, Whit, don't tell me you weren't touched by Krista and Mike Boogie finding true love in the Big Brother house! ;-)

Oregonfire

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Alliances are a sort of friendship bond between like-minded people. Even Will, the most "pure" player yet, had his favorite posse and gal. Luckily he was smart enough to turn into a total player once they were gone.

On the other hand, something about him was quite chilling. Maybe they should have looked for a computer chip in the back of his head.

Karuuna

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When folks sign up for the game, they objectify the others in the game. They think of the others as contestants, not human beings.

But whenever you objectify another human being, you've already lost. No matter how much money you get.

We're social creatures. We need each other. You can't live for 3 months without community. Real community - not objects. Real relationships, not fake ones.

What you're suggesting is something that is not humanly impossible. Or if it is possible, you wouldn't be such a great human.

Again, just call me quirky.

Sunshinemiss

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Great thread..

I think it is not so much the game as it is the intensity; that it is 24/7. Most people can take a lot of pressure if they get some down time, and that is just NOT an option in this game. The unrelenting pressure can bring on emotional breakdowns (we've had several, to varying degrees over the pat seasons).

It also can magnify any character flaws or personality problems... how many of our friends or co-workers see us 24/7? You just can't hide anything for any length of time in the house.

Which is a good thing for us voyeurs, lol.

Whit4you

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
No maybe someone's misunderstanding me..honestly ..is important to me ...

I doubt I'd EVER lie to a good friend for 500 grand... or break a promise to a good friend for 500 grand IF I felt it wouldnt beneifit or could not benefit or would hurt that good friend. HOWEVER ... I wouldnt friggen go on a game show for 500 grand to MAKE a friend... and I wouldnt hesitate to lie cheat still or do anything within my OWN Personal boundries within THAT senerio...

Jason holding a knife to someones throught that was beyond the boundries...

Shannon risking someones personal health (toothbrush) was beyond boundries...

There are MANY Things that are beyond boundries..

but PLAYING THE GAME is NOT beyond the boundries to me and I listen endlessly to these people talking about friendship and betrayal and read it here and I just wanna scream... ya know?

There are many many many professionals out there that HAVE to keep a professional relationship.

Making 500 grand in 3 months IS a professional relationship.

If they wanna make buddies go to a friggen spring break place... if they wanna make 500 grand keep this professional

@#)$(*@#)$(*@#)(*@#_$*#@)$@()_@#$)(*_)_#)||

I know at least some of you can relate to how I feel and that's good....:)

This show aint about "Let's make a friend" it's about "Let's make 500 grand which could make my life better forever and my REAL friends lives better perhaps..."

Sheila494

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i agree curlyq

Keiffer

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The only reason to insist to other HG's the friendship angle is to perhaps trick them into not voting you out if they get the chance. Otherwise I agree with the original post. IN paticular I think that here on this board people asssume that they are seeing 100% how a person really is. I mean the stuff I heard on here last year about Kristin was terrible. Again this year because a woman speaks as openly about sex as a guy she is labled a sl*t by a good number of people on this board.

These people areplaying parts. They are trying to do what they can to connect on any level with another person so that if the time comes they wont get voted out. Marcellas is wrong. This is not a morality play of good versus evil. This is 12 what I would bet are great people in the real worl all trying to stay in a game any way they can so they have a shot at winning 500k.

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:35 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit " I wouldnt friggen go on a game show for 500 grand to MAKE a friend... "

I don't think their INTENT was to go there mainly TO MAKE friends....I think any friendships forming is the side effect of being in a lab where you can't get out, having issues and breakdowns, being comforted by other competiters, forming alliances in order to play the game. The friendships, per se, weren't their original goals...just a fringe benefit (or detriment, if they befriended Josh)! LOL

Dipo

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I hear what you are saying, I maintain what I call acquaintences with those I work with, I don't really like many of them, don't want them to be true friends, but can't work with them if we are adversaries. Men seem to do this better than women, I am a woman, but I figured out a while ago that my good friends I would protect from anything. My acquaintences I will get along with, maybe gossip about but I don't trust them and I don't bare my soul to them. I just get along, don't make waves - whenever possible, and enjoy my life.

These people need to be acquaintences and not think they are building lifelong soulmate experiences. Very few will remain friends - just look at last year, many of them have only remained in touch with one or two people.

Karuuna

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit - professionals go home to their real relationships with real friends and real family. All the bb3ers have is each other.

I think under that circumstance, you come to view your values differently. Relationship becomes more important than winning the money. What I'm saying is that the total game scenario/objectify others-to-win is an impossible one for normal, healthy people. That's why Will was so good at the game. The man was missing a few humanity genes (IMO).

Sure, if they could go home at the end of each day, it would be different. But we *require* relationship to survive. If these are the only relationships to which they have access, these relationships become more important than the money.

That's very human. And I'm so very glad it is.

Curlyq

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit, I think the misunderstanding stems from what you just said: boundaries. It's just that everyone has different boundaries. You said lying, cheating, and stealing is within your own personal boundaries, but the knife thing was not. Some of the players probably just have different boundaries that don't include the lying, etc. For example, Roddy for all his phoniness has claimed that he doesn't want to outright lie to anyone (although I think he's done it anyway), but rather expose the people who do lie. Josh on the other hand has no problem with lying. Every player has a different concept of what is fair play and what's out of line.

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This thread reminds of those stories we've all heard....it's WW1 or WW2, soldiers from both sides go to fight for their countries...and at some point one lone soldier comes across one other lone soldier from the other side...and they help each other (food, water, whatever) and then go their separate ways. The war is still on, but the two soldiers stepped out of the horror of the war to be human fir a moment, then headed back to the horror...

I've read a couple of human interest stories about this kind of stuff...it *has* happened.

Just an observation......

Mssilhouette

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit I feel you..and I understand. But as with all dramas we like villians and good guys. We like people with "morals" or at least the appearance of such and those without.

We like folks that are social and anti social. But BB hasn't really been a game since BB1. It's just a social experiment wiht money at the end for the lab rats.

Personally there's a point in all these reality games where instant friendship gets shattered when ooops, hey they're reminded of the reason they're on the show in the first place.

Also people in the presense of the supposed villian or villiany like to play the good guy and preach about morals and ethics, which sound nice but seem pretty darn hypocritical when the goal is to make it to the end and win the 500K by any means necessary.

It's the ole, I'm better than you, crap. Human nature, what ya gonna do. :)

I do understand your frustration though. At least in The Mole they know they're in a game every day :) But even there they talk about friendships but it's always within the confines of "the game" That's why I like it so much :) Oh wait..back to BB3. LOL

Sobaditsgood

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Curlyq - I agree with your post completely. Whit, I get your frustration and even get your point to a certain extent... but I think when we're watching from the outside, even if you watch the LF and not just TV, it can be easy to underestimate the effect of being there in the same confined space, inescapably, 24/7. Most of us don't watch the action anything close to 24/7, even reading the play by play I don't think it's possibly to really appreciate how it must screw with your head to be in that situation. As Curlyq said, while it may be a game, it is also quite literally their LIFE for the time they're in the house. For those who leave fairly early, it's possible they could subvert or suppress their real personality while trying to 'keep their eye on the prize' thinking 'it's just a game.' But for those who are there longer, it must be incredibly wearying to CONSTANTLY feel like you have to be super vigilant and maybe pretend to be something you're not in order to win. I think Roddy is the one who said after a while, real personalities are going to start showing through whether people want them to or not. It's inevitable - and it really is, which is the bottom line proof that although the construct is that of a "mere" game, the elements involved are all too human.

And I'll say this, in trying to imagine how it might feel to be in that house and faced with some of the ethical dilemmas (because even though it's a game, personally I'd still strive to play within my ethical sphere), it has occurred to me just what a huge rush it would be to know, just for myself, that I stuck to something *I* thought was right, money be damned. NOT as some sort of noble martyr self-sacrifice pose, but in a much more private sense, just knowing it in my own mind. What a huge sense of personal POWER that would be. And I really mean personal, not some sort of 'noble martyr' syndrome that seems to afflict some of these folks... the sort of thing I'm talking about you wouldn't even necessarily reveal to anyone else, you'd just know it in your own head, you'd have found out something important about yourself -- and Whit, to me here is the salient point: whether you found it out in the context of "just a game" or in the context of your larger life, the point is, you'd have found it out. Who cares how?

wee small caveat: I'm not into money at all, have some rather radical thoughts about it in fact, so while it's entirely true that it'd be pretty darned easy for me to walk away from prize money if it meant crossing certain lines, I realize a lot of people (probably most) wouldn't agree and would get all upset about 'then why play the game if you're not ready to go for the whole thing!' I would just suggest to those people that there is more than one way to play a game and more than one way to win it.

Why do some people get so *upset* if others seem not to be totally singleminded about money? 'Get the money at all costs.' I mean, I get a bit annoyed at the longwinded 'martyrs' on the show too, but I *don't* get why some people get so ANGRY if a HG talks about wanting to keep to their principles. Have we gotten so cynical now that we *demand* everyone adhere to the same winning-money-is-everything notion, or else they're just freakish? That attitude perplexes me a little, I confess.

Whit4you

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:45 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay maybe your right.. and maybe I am missing a few humanitary genes myself... throught reading the responses to this post I've realized I have something alot under 30 and maybe some over 30 still don't have and that is the ability to NOT make friends. I was venting and it felt good venting and reading these responses has helped me remember how I was at 23ish..(their age) and AI couldnt HELP but make friends ..having too many friends was a contributing factor however to a complete and total breakdown for me and since then I've learned how to AVOID making too many firneds... and how to not let my phone control my life (ironically now I see ALL those around me not even being controlled by a fone but by a fone everywhere they go but that's another topic)

Anyhow... I guess if this show happened when I was 23... 25.... I woulda been good friends with a few int hat house .. life time friends with a few others and the 500 grand woulda been worthless to me... I'm looking at things from my OWN perspective now and how *I* would act / react if *I* were to join a TV Game show for 500 grand NOW... if I could handle more friends at this point I'd start talking more to the people around me responding more to the emails from casual friends and os on I wouldnt GO ON A GAME SHOW for 500 grand to make a friend.

But ya .. reading this thread has helped me put this in perspective of how *I* would have been at 23 in the game..or responding TO this game... OR ya know the rest of you who know how to manage havign to many friends and can see making more friends LOL.

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Another interesting comparison is the Stockholm Syndrome...you know, when a group of bank robbers or something had some hostages for days and when it was all over, some of the hostages refused to testify aganst the hostage takers because of some weird thing that they finally had to label as a psychological "syndrome". They identified with the bad guys (their adversaries) in that situation and became drawn to, then very close to them...

That's what's so great about BB....that psychological element of isolation is thrown in and no one can truly predict the outcome in a situation like that. Many people will behave differently in such an unusual and heretofore unexperienced situation...

Sobaditsgood

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Sanfran, two words: Patty Hearst.

yikes!

:)

Hardywins

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You must make friends with the other contestants. You also (like Will said last year) have to want to have all those friends evicted and on the outside voting for you to win the $500k at the end. The job is to make as many friends as possible as quickly as possible and then hope that they are evicted before you are. That is why this game is more interesting than Survivor. You are allways in direct contact with everyone who wants to be your friend and also with everyone who wants you out. In Survivor, for most of the game, It is the complete and seperate and distant other team that whips your team in the immunity challenge that causes your demise. You don't have the opportunity to make friends with them in order to prevent your own demise. With BB; you have 24/7 to make friends that when they are evicted will vote $500K into your pocket. Much more of a challenge than Survivor!

Pcakes2

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit4you...I'm whit you! I've never seen contestants on Wheel of Fortune or Jeopardy "just there for the experience"...they're there to play a game, and win some $$$

Sanfranjoshfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Friends and allies are different things...

Colby made "friends" with Tina and that cost him 900K in Survivor Outback.

We are "allies" with Russia, but we are not really "friends". Friends tell each other secrets and depend on one another for a wide range of things. We are allies with Russia only as long we both get something out of it...something more than just the feelgood fuzzie-wuzzies...

:-)

Classycassfan

Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit from your email address I am guessing I am a neighbor in the state... so just let me know if you are going to Western or Eastern State Hospital..... Have cash card... when I get there if they don't make me your roomie I will bail ya out!!!!!

Because I can really relate to what you have said.
I can't believe anyone of those girls would go in and look for a man.... Remember Mike and Krista (as much as think they do deserve each other) neither of them got the money so they didn't want each other in the end.

Any ditto what you said for me too.