Archive through July 22, 2002
The ClubHouse: General Discussion Archives: Archive One:
WHY CAN'T THESE WOMEN KEEP IT TOGETHER?:
Archive through July 22, 2002
Goddessatlaw | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:07 pm     I'm not sure whether the problem is that, with the exception of Danielle, their collective ages barely add up to 100. Or maybe it's that our friend Arnie has cast stereotypes of emotionally underdeveloped women designed to engage in catty, petty, juvenile, off-the-main-subject bickering. Is there a professional among them? Has any one of them been caught in a conversation that demonstrated any degree of book learning? Danielle has been the only one who has seemed to be playing the game on the same level as the men, and she's been doing that by not saying anything noteworthy at all. Maybe smart enough for this group, but still not necessarily impressive. I'm not saying I'm impressed with the men - not at all. But, with the exception of Josh (who defies any attempt at categorization), the men have played the game, the girls and each other in an impassive manner which has not devolved into personal attacks (Gerry gets one get-out-of-jail free card for his MLK speech). Their common demoninator, impassivity, is the exact opposite of the common demoninator I would ascribe to the girls - complete and utter emotional immaturity. The girls are all fighting over the boys. I don't see any of the boys fighting over any of the girls. Is this by design or happenstance? Any opinions? |
Cyn | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:12 pm     my opinion is that Casandra (yeah!) from BB1 scared them away from that. i feel that her subtle influence on the household is what made that crew get along more. i mean she was trained in conflict resolution, and she knew how to do it w/o anyone even catching on that she was doing it. Long Live CASSANDRA! |
Dipo | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:19 pm     First question, are you male or female. My opinion is that these women have fallen back into the old habits of high school, when everything that is your "world" seems to be real. As a woman, I think that it has to do with the fact that women, I am speaking for my own opinion and not all of America, are raised with a "I need to please people" sense of worth. Oprah talks about this alot. I know, personally, I have been called selfish just because I enjoy spending time with myself (don't have kids, thats a whole other arena). But it does seem that most of what I am seeing is that they want to please others to be accepted. It seemed to me what Nicole did, since she did all the cooking even tho others would have loved to do some. My opinion. |
Niceguy | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:20 pm     Cassamdra was something of a genius in that regard. But her vanity got the best of her, when it came to getting her hair wet. She didn't want it to get nappy. |
Goddessatlaw | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:21 pm     Well, I think if they want to engage in stereotype casting, they're really missing a ratings bonanza. I'd pay big money to see them throw a pack of attorneys in there for three months. The evil, conniving and bickering would be world-class, and it would generally occur above the waistline. |
Goddessatlaw | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:22 pm     Dipo - I'm all girl. Just a grown-up one. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:23 pm     I know, Goddess, it's a pretty pathetic thing if you ask me. They need to get it together and start playing smart. I do think there is a tendency for women to get more emotionally attached. I also happen to think that it's a biological imperative that drives the women to want the best man as a mate and reproductive partner, especially unmarried women without children. It's a biological imperative that drives men to impregnant as many women as possible. I'm talking subconscious motives here, not necessarily consciously recognized behavior. As much as we may not want to admit it, we are still animals, like every other animal on the planet, only we have better homes and nicer cars. Please think about what I'm saying on a scientific level, and try for once, to not play the "generalization" card. That counterargument is getting really old, and I refuse to acknowledge it at this point because it's overused and boring. |
Scorpiomoon | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:24 pm     Goddessatlaw: I know what you mean. I personally think it's sad. Amy is perfect for the "ditzy" blonde role. But why have four women who approach things almost the exact same way? Cyn could be right. Maybe Arnie came in, took a look at the way Cass behaved and decided having a strong, highly intelligent and mature woman in the game lessened the appeal. Danielle is admirable though. I respect that woman and I hope she continues to be true to herself. |
Dipo | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:26 pm     godessatlaw -- too funny, suppose I had just read your username, how goofy am I, just wondered because coming from a man it would be an interesting question, I agree that these women are whacked, it is mind boggling and I have yet to figure out anything but what I posted. |
Classycassfan | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:28 pm     OH YES YES YES to both of you. I think Arnold should of found us another Cassandra she showed the American woman as what most of us are. I shutter at the thought that young girls out there think that they should be like the examples of these young women ( well they should be young women) My 12 year old grandaughter shows more maturity (most of the time) than most of these women. She has been taught that you need to confront issues that bother you, that hiding in a room will not make the problem go away. Most of what I see in 5 of the 6 woman is that they had to "hookup" with one of the males to form a partner ship to stay in the house. Yet they talk the talk of an all female choice for the money. Well talking the talk and play the game are two different things and there is no play by the 5. The one exception is Dani and she also has hooked up with a guy but not in the sexual sense. She and Jason seem to be one team that might have a chance even though this does not make me personally happy at least it is better than selling your body to one of the guys to not get kicked outta the house. I wonder what other countries that follow our version of BB think of American women? Are we all preseved as being spineless, good for nothing other than male grooming staff, dumb and helpless. Please no I could not stand it. I have a professional daughter and hope to have a professional grandaughter someday. Who I can say are more all american than any of Arnolds choices. |
Bastable | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:34 pm     Goddess, I am so glad that this point was raised, and I am doubly glad that it was raised by a female... as a man, I would have felt that to say something like that might be an imposition. But I see it happening, too. Their awful "I-can-get-any-man-over-her" talk is something you'd expect to hear in the high school girl's room. (Then again, the boys' "I'm-hookin'-up-wit-a-hot-chick" talk isn't exactly past the locker room itself.) It seems that in casting "stereotypes," the producers have fallen into a trap. Some women who overemphasize physical appearance also get caught up in their sexual power (since it's wrapped up in issues of self-confidence), and what we're seeing is some women who would much rather play sex games than BB games. But here are the questions: In the final analysis, will women like that bond with each other or undermine each other? Also, will the men's own predictable social pattern also lead to their own downfall? I think a good argument could be made that men are often socialized to be able to juggle sex games with power games, while for certain women (particularly a few generations back), sex games were the only power games they could win. Am I over anyones heads here? |
Pcakes2 | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:35 pm     Let's not forget that some of these folks are actors. |
Scorpiomoon | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:36 pm     Wanna-be actors that is. |
Scorpiomoon | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:41 pm     Bastable: Re: Your last paragraph: I think you pretty much summed up how this game will eventually turn. I think some of them will bond and others will undermine each other. We're seeing this happen already. We're also seeing the males (well, just Roddy and Eric) fit the pattern you outlined. (See the thread about Eric telling Roddy about him and Lisa.) And judging by Chiara's outburst last night, there will come a point in time where she will turn against Roddy (call it a power/sex game or call it paranoia or call it neurosis) and he won't know what hit him. |
Goddessatlaw | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:43 pm     Oregonfire - well placed points, and ones with which I'm familiar. I hesitate to EVER go down the road to generalization, preferring to hold each person accountable for their own behavior. However: is there a degree among them? I am female and can't recall ever having so little self-respect as to fight over a boy (particularly not one whose sole purpose for being near me is to win money). I mean really - who cares? Go earn your own money, and go find a real boyfriend - one who doesn't announce to the world that "you like c**k." I can't recall a single conversation with my girlfriends which centered around oral-anal contact sports. There wouldn't be a question of "will I or won't I" with some guy who I just met a few days ago. It's just embarassing as a female to have our representative houseguests acting like a pack of ditzy, love-starved, sex-crazed, male-attention-requiring, talon-sharpening beastesses. Would it be too hard on the ratings to throw a few brains into the mix? It doesn't have to be hard on the eyes: pretty and brains do mix. That's all I'm trying to say. |
Bastable | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:51 pm     CBS should hire the person who casts "The Mole." |
What555456 | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:51 pm     Of course, the difference between how the women are handling their relationships with the men and how the men are handling their relationships with the women is that the women see this as a zero sum game. "He's mine! If I have him, you can't have him." The men on the other hand see the women as goals for all of them -- if one man scores with one of the women, he passes this along to the other men so they can get their chance too. It IS very similar to high school, as was mentioned. High School girls want monogomous boy friends. High School boys want conquests -- and will share that conquest with their buddies so they can all compare notes and see who did the best. |
Oregonfire | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:53 pm     I hate to say it, Goddesslaw, but being the "brainy" type myself, I don't necessarily think that having a degree or an education makes for a more mature person. Get this: at the college where I got my master's, there was an ethics professor who got busted for identity fraud. I sh*t you not. Anyway, I mean the generalization comment in the context of getting in a "How can you say that about all men and women?!" brawl, and I think I'd have to pull out my OWN ingrown hairs before getting into that discussion for the third day in a row! I just think that our little hamsters are playing out a script that was written a very, very, long time ago. Without outside stimulation, they are reverting to pre-dawn mankind. Where's a friggin' monolith when you need one? |
Aus10 | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:54 pm     I would love to see more intellectual game playing. But I have to play devil's advocate here. I would love to see a mix of young and old folks with some brains over beauty in a "thinking" game. However, I think most people were complaining the BB1 was to boring. These bimbo like women were brought in for one thing and one thing only. To parade around in their bathing suits and look good. No brains in this bunch. The viewing audience can't have it both ways. As a women you'd have to be some kind of stupid to actually act this way on national tv and with the 24/7 exposure and then think that people would think you were smart. |
Bastable | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:54 pm     I don't want to suggest that this is an endemic difference between women and men! It's certainly not! It's just one I've noticed in a certain subset of body-obsessed people. Like, I said, it comes largely out of insecurity and then falls afoul of lopsided socialization. |
Zeyna | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:16 pm     Three of the girls are in their early 20's. They are not *that* far off from highschool. The issue here is that the girls don't have too much in common as far as I can tell and maybe sex discussions are the only common ground. I can't believe how many people here are almost outraged at the detail of the discussions - there should not be so much shame associated with sex, but that's another topic. It would be far more interesting to see them engaged in a scientific, or a philosophical discussions, but that has to be a two way conversation. Starting a convo about astronomy with Tonya would be useless. A convo about the fat contents of a cheese stick would be reciprocated. And I am not trying to be mean here, this is my impression of the conversations I've heard so far. Even worse, in my opinion, is that they continue to cling to eachother discussing mostly nonsense, in order to belong to the group. Amy is the outcast because she refuses to comply and Danielle is rewarded for trying to fit in. |
Bastable | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:20 pm     Tonya ought to know plenty about astonomy since she spends so much time on her back. ...anyway, Zeyna, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't object to the sex talk, but the fact that's ALL they seem capable of talking about. I object to their inanity. If all they could talk about was toy trains or organic produce, I'd be just as annoyed. (Granted, there are other people on this board who approach this in fundamentalist terms, and do object to the sex stuff.) |
Goddessatlaw | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:26 pm     LOL, Bastable, someone please put that first sentence on the Best One Liner's page - I don't know how to yet. As to the rest, I couldn't agree more. |
Zeyna | Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:32 pm     LOL Bestable I know, the sex talk is just endless, coupled with diamonds, BBs boutique and the Silverstein jewelery. |
Squidward | Monday, July 22, 2002 - 12:41 am     Where did AS find these women? He purposefully went out and found a bunch of bimbos, with Danielle being the exception (I really don't consider Amy that way either, but face it, she's more interested in Roddy than winning the game so she's only a couple of steps above Tart Town). I don't find them entertaining at all. They are shallow, and as I heard Marcellas state, they talk about sex and only sex, not one meaningful conversation. I wonder how Nicole from BB2 would have felt in the midst of this mess. These tarts even make Shannon look good. |
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