Archive through September 22, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive ONE: Do You Really Buy What Lisa is Selling?: Archive through September 22, 2002

Phillymom

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 09:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Reenie, I can agree with you up to a point. There is a lot to be said for perception and intuition. But it can never replace reality. My own eyes and ears didn't deceive me -- Lisa did not know by week 3 that Jason and Dani had an alliance, and to now claim that did is ... actually, I don't know what it is, LOL. I can't decide if she's a little flaky, if she's flat-out lying, or if this is some sort of last-minute strategy intended for the jury.

Onlyhuman

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that Lisa knew that Danielle and Jason had an alliance, maybe not as early as she stated, but certainly early enough. What she didn't know was the extent to which Jason & Danielle were committed to being together in the final 2.

That's what I think Lisa was figuring out last week. Up until that point, she may have thought it was going to be every person for themselves after the final three.

Remember, DR entries are edited for maximum impact. They always leave out information that does not fit their storyline. Amy & Lisa being clueless about the secret alliance is one of those storylines.

Sherbear

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa was a good game player. When she wanted to win the final HOH and she did. She said she didn't want to win before. Said she was great in the memory portion of the game. She was right!

Spunky

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa showed to me that she can be quiet smart when she wants to.

She did have an alliance with Danielle to make it to the final 3 and she rewarded Danielle with a promise to take her to the final 2. Pretty decent, she kept her word.

I can't say the same for Danielle, she admitted she would have kicked Lisa out. If Lisa won HOH was entirely due to her own efforts. The arrogance of Danielle to get the credit for Lisa winning part 1 of HOH was disgusting. Lisa took pity on Danielle and made a deal which was more in the interest of Danielle than hers. She was going to be kicked out if Jason won, and Danielle didn't have to do a damn thing.

What I don't like about Lisa right now is that she is talking too much and by being with Danielle she may get Danielle's bad habits. Lisa should not repeat to Danielle: "When you win your 50k..." that's bad. She also said it's going to be 50-50, and that's what she has to repeat every time Danielle brings up the vote.

Pugholio

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa figured out who was likely to make it to the end. She aligned herself with them. She was pretty careful to not alienate those will be the final judges. She remained so non-threatening to the two stronger ones, she slipped by practically untouched.

THAT, is the way this game should be played. Textbook case.

Danielle is the example of how NOT to play the game.

Jason is an example of what overconfidence, blind faith, and trust accomplishes for you.

The game is so much like the real outside world, Jason really had no chance to do better than get real close.

Spunky

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Excellent, Pugholio!

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The arrogance of Danielle to get the credit for Lisa winning part 1 of HOH was disgusting. Lisa took pity on Danielle and made a deal which was more in the interest of Danielle than hers. She was going to be kicked out if Jason won, and Danielle didn't have to do a damn thing.


I disagree a bit here. I don't think Dani was meaning that she could have beat Lisa when she said she gave it to her. I think she just meant that she willingly let go....not a slip or a mistake. That was my take on it. And as for taking pity on Danielle, Lisa said she was going to take Dani anyway. Lisa said she was waiting for the right moment to talk to her (when Dani was weak). I think Lisa was really using that as an opportunity to confirm her suspicions of Dani and Jason's alliance and to get Dani to take her to final 2 should Dani win HOH (still 2 parts to go).

I just had a different take on those events.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Pugholio Jason did have a chance to get better than "real close." His fate was in his hands and he let nervousness get the best of him. That doesn't mean he never had a chance but that he blew his chance. I also disagree with your assessment of overconfident and blind faith. His strategy kept his eyes open at all time...he was constantly questioning...his faith was not blind but proven.

Momiee43

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When Lisa asked Dani what she would do with her 50K she also said what she would do with her 50K they were both talking about winning 50K because either way you look at it they both have. I was watching the convo on the feeds last night and was a bit taken back when Lisa asked Dani but when she told Dani her plans with the 50K I felt much better. I don't think either one is asuming at this point.

Starz

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:26 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Lisa may be a lip-reader. That may give her the advantage of being able to eavesdrop on conversations that happen in the hammock while she's across the yard at the table playing cards or even in the house looking out... depending on her eye sight. If she CAN read lips (with her ability to sign its possible) it would explain a lot.

Cricket

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv63 stated:For the first 4 weeks Lisa was totally unaware of anything happening in that house unless Eric was the subject matter. She was not strategic. She did not game play. Her BB world revolved around Eric and her various illnesses that kept her confined to the bed.

So anything she says now to the contrary is revisionist history."
"

Ooh, great post Wcv63. Lisa is saying some odd things now. Dani is letting it all hang out and it seems like Lisa may be thinking of the votes. I think they are both pretty sincere though, although as someone on the board said previously, Lisa has always been a step behind. Maybe that worked for her.

I liked when Lisa recognized all the 'work' Dani had to do to keep Jason off the chopping block. Both of these women are good listeners, which helped them out.

What came to mind in reading their latest discussion is that Gerry would be a fool to vote for Lisa to win. Wasn't she going on and on about him one week saying he was looking at her funny and being a dirty old man? At least Danielle thinks he's smart. He would look better voting for her.

Muse

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:29 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa's recent comments remind me of Monica towards the end of the game least season. She claimed that she "knew" those people from the beginning, when really it was obvious that she changed her mind about both Nicole and Will (and Hardy) as the game went along. I think both Lisa and Monica used it to feel better about themselves. Lisa probably felt a little foolish about being strung along as the third person in the alliance (even if things did work out for her), and might feel that others think she's just lucky to be there. But by claiming that she knew about Jason and Danielle from early on, and that she knew it'd be her and Danielle in the end, she gives herself a little more power. Well, in her mind, at least. :)

I don't buy any of Lisa's "I knew it" stuff, but I don't find it particularly obnoxious, either. And if anything, it might work to her advantage. Acting so confident might make her seem more like a major player in the game...maybe it'll score her another vote or two.

Spunky

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Monalisa, Lisa would have lasted till the morning... Danielle was barely hanging on and got lucky with Lisa's suggesting a deal.
And to say in the DR..." I gave Lisa the game" was the most arrogant behavior so far.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spunky that's conjecture and not a proven fact. My perception is that Dani did "give it to Lisa". She may not have looked as strong as Lisa did but who's to say what she is capable of when she sets her mind to it? Not you. Not I.

I found no arrogance in that remark. It was a truthful accounting of events.

Phillymom

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It's very humid in Philly right now, and I THINK it's going to rain. After it starts raining, I can't claim that I "KNEW" it was going to rain. That's the kind of process that Lisa is attributing to herself. Thinking and knowing are not the same thing.

As I think someone else already asked, if Lisa knew it was going to be her and Dani at the end, why didn't she align herself with Dani right from the beginning? -- it sure would have saved a whole lot of trouble and work. And if she knew from week 3 that Jason and Dani were in an alliance, why did she wait so long to align herself with Marcellas? -- and Marc was the one who suggested it, not Lisa. So, to answer the topic of this thread, I'm not buying a word of what Lisa is selling. I liked her up until this point, but my opinion of her has gone down.

Dogdoc

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Spunky, I agree, Danielle did not give Lisa the game. I think she was trying to convince herself that she did.

Toolhound

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Lisa played the best game. She kept her mouth shut and listened and watched what the others were doing. She may also be able to read lips. Her plan was to stay under the radar untill the final 3. She did that and listened. The rest like to hear themselves talk instead of listening. When a bunch of them were together they were all trying to talk at once and no one was listening except Lisa. She won her spot in the final 2 and now will win the $500,000.00

Bettyrubble

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't take Dani's comment of "I gave it to Lisa" to mean she was responsible for Lisa winning. I took it to mean she (Dani) gave up. She knows she did and has beat herself up about it for 2 days. She saw that Lisa was not giving up and Dani was spent. I give Lisa 100% credit for her pool victory. There's no doubt she was determined and did what she had to do. I think everyone is picking on Dani's statement as just another way to vilify her -- sort of like breathing.

On the topic, I don't believe for a minute that Lisa had a clue about D and J. As has been said, the first 4 weeks of the game Lisa wasn't even playing. She was finding her man (to which I am not criticizing her for). Even her diary room (after Eric's eviction) statement said she hadn't been playing but that now she was going to turn into the "princess of darkness". I think her first real clue of the D/J alliance was Marcellas -- now he had it figured out but too little too late.

Lainee

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
There are two things...I think if Lisa can read lips then even if she was seeming to concentrate on Eric she would still be able to look around to see what people were saying and most importantly who was talking to who. The other thing...a couple weeks ago two of Lisa's friends were commenting that they were glad Lisa didn't vote to bring Eric back into the house because she wasn't concentrating on the game. The friends didn't say anything about whether Lisa could lipread or not, however, if that was part of Lisa's strategy then they probably wouldn't.

Wrat1010

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't believe it's a Diary Room conspiracy.
I think Lisa overheard Jason and Danielle strategizing--- I couldn't believe that in a such a small house that no one ever caught them doing that.... and Lisa is an admitted eavesdropper and lipreader -- she eavesdropped on Gerry and Josh, tried to eavesdrop Gerry and Danielle, and she may have read J+D's lips during their frequent card shuffling conversations in the first few weeks.

Now she will admit to Danielle that she was on to Danielle and Jason's alliance but she doesn't want to give away how she got that information yet. If she has concrete proof from an overheard conversation, the 6-pack jury members might be angry that she never shared the information with her alliance.

As for Lisa saying she was going to take Danielle to the finals since before they went in the house, Jason had pretty much told Danielle the same thing.

Jadeygurl39

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Do I buy what Lisa is selling? Absolutely! IMHO it doesn't matter how Lisa or Dani got to the end. They are the two that will reap the benefits.

Everyone has their view and take on how this all played out. I do too!

I admit I get caught up in the emotional stuff and feel like I live vicariously through some of these houseguests. Hey that makes it fun. Why else watch?

I always jump to conclusions and I did in the beginning with Lisa. I didn't think she'd last to only maybe half way through. Hey she was only put up twice. Not too bad for whoever coattails she was riding. One could say that Dani was riding on everyone's coattails for that matter. She left the dirty work up to others just like Roddy. They all played their game their own way.

Lisa shocked me with her patiences and ability to keep her mouth shut through the whole game until the end. I doubt it will do as much damage as Dani getting drunk and spewing her insecurities.

Anyway, I do respect the differences of opinions on this board. It makes it that much more interesting!

Kmjm

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I really think that Lisa is way smarter than anyone gives her credit for. Weeks ago in a conversation she let it slip that she was a straight A student at school. I think her dumb little girl routine is an act that works for her. It certainly totally fooled Roddy!

Do you all REALLY believe that she doesn't know what a plum is?

Tresbien

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Good point, Wrat. You reminded me of the conversation when Jason told Dani about his many strategy sessions with his father and how they discussed the type of person he should align himself with and Dani was that person. It also reminded me of last year when Monica's strategy before entering the house was to align herself with a woman from the South.

As far as Lisa and the lip-reading goes, it makes sense to me because she talked about her hearing loss due to working next to a loud speaker. A friend of mine with similar hearing loss lip-reads to compensate for her hearing deficit. Hopefully, someone will pose these questions to her in interviews.

Hawaiiandew

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Is it an unfair advantage in a game like this to be able to lipread?
Just a question not an accusation.

Jadeygurl39

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Heck I see it as an advantage. :)