Archive through September 22, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive TWO: If Dani were a guy: Archive through September 22, 2002

Jimmyd

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Would there be so much animosity towards her? So many people, the ex-houseguests included, are so angry at Dani for how she played this game. IMO, she played beautifully.

Tabbyking

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
yep, guy or gal, she was a good player, but not likable for many of us. too much manipulating, eye-rolling, rude comments, etc. she could have played the same game and been nicer about her fellow houseguests--and had she been less meanspirited, she may have won the big money. my guess is she gets 2nd place. to me, it wouldn't make any difference if she were a daniel and not a danielle...although her husband might have a teeny problem with it!

Machellewatches

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Jimmy, she played a game, a great game i might add. i dunno, guess i never put much thought into what people say about me. always had the who cares attitude. hopefully Danielle has tough skin, cause boy, there are some dani haters in the world. i saw it earlier somewhere, don't hate the player, hate the game

Wcv63

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh my Jimmyd...you hit on my pet subject!!! I've been preaching this for weeks. I think Dani would be hailed as a hero if she were male. I think she is being held to a higher standard because she is female and a mother. Of course I have nothing to back that up but my own opinion.

But I'm rarely wrong. :O

Machellewatches

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
forgot to post this earlier, but look where playing a good, clean game gets ya. Can u say 3rd.

Seanflynn

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And there are other factors related to Danielle that may be working against her in some minds as well.

Bmh

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I kind of agree..I dont think Dani would have had as bad as she does if she was a guy..but I dont think dani as a guy would be a hero

Foodbunny

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Gender makes no difference to me in my life. I hold men and women to the same standards in everything. Danielle played a good strategic game, but she did not play a good game for the jury and that will cost her.

Believe me, I dislike Gerry every bit as much as Danielle for their conversations together.

Tabbyking

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
personally, i think if it were roddy and not danielle, people would really be going nuts. again, i do not feel gender has anything to do with it.

Wcv63

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay here's my frame of reference. Will. Will was every bit the trash talker that Dani was...I venture to say he was even more so. BUT, he was charming and cute and funny...and hey...everybody just decided to forgive all his little picadillos and get on board his love train. Oh but he was young. And a doctor. And he SAID he was going to lie from the beginning. Well so did Dani.

Jaysgal

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Some people have been playing the gender card. This has nothing to do with gender. Roddy had many enemies, as in many people who detested his tactic. Many of Danielle's dislikers are females too (including myself). It has nothing to do with gender. The only way it could be associated with gender is, it's often women who exhibit her kind of character of playing caring woman, mother, etc. using it to attract mostly younger people, then engaging in backbiting and eventually backstabbing them. But whatever provocative tactic, people dislike it whether it is a man or a woman.

Superfan

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
OK, question that's been brewing in my mind since this was brought up in another post.

Last year most of us started out hating Will and couldn't wait to see him outta there. He spewed vileness and arrogance all season long.

Towards the middle/end alot of us flipped over (I know I wasn't the only one) and loved the guy. I personally ended up rooting for neither Will nor Nicole (as foul mouthed as she was) because I thought they both played a great game. Will was the snake, Nicole the manipulator. Would have been happy if either won.

Point is, how was Will so loved, same bad behaviour, and Dani so despised?

Is it gender? Or what?

Foodbunny

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Super, I liked Will for two things. First off he was just fun to watch, he took a lot of joy in things even if they were pissing other people off, like building the snowman while Nicole was crying about how she hates snow. Secondly, he wasn't Nicole. I'm sorry, but her crying for Xanax and demanding to speak to her husband and threatening to kill Will made her completely unlikable to me. And I'd feel the same about a man who acted that way.

Danielle does have fun, but it's not the kind of fun that I find infectious. Imitating Amy or dancing to music we can't hear doesn't do anything for me. She's also not up against anyone nearly as loathesome as Nicole. Lisa's quiet, undemanding, and personable, there's not a negative to make Danielle seem more positive.

Add to that the fact I'm rooting against her for a couple of conversations regarding religion she had with Gerry and, well, she doesn't look so good to me. Her trashing the evicted or the way she plays the game doesn't have terribly much to do with it.

Crossfire

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
As I said in another thread.

Will did not win BB. Nicole lost the game, that left the class clown as last one standing.

People has no other place to put their vote.

Same with Danielle vs the other finalists.

Jimmer

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Will was liked because he wasn't hypocritical. Plus Nicole was the one calling him names. Plus Will was a good sport and took abuse without letting it get to him. Remember when he built that hilarious doll for Nicole because she didn't want to do crafts and she dumped all over him for it. That was entertainment.

Personally, I hold men and women to the same basic standard, though I do recognize there may be differences in the way they approach certain issues.

Keiffer

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
It has nothing to do with gender. A good deal of people on this board hated Roddy for doing the same sort of things that Danny ended up doing... so once Roddy left they noticed Danny doing the same stuff.

Roddy manipulated people using emotions, and Danny did it with out right lies. It still hasnt been shown to me that Roddy didnt mean the compliments he used on people... but it has been proven that Danny out right lied to people.

NOthing to do with gender it's just a game... its business not personal.

Jaysgal

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
When BB 2 started, I fell for Nicole's tear game and felt so sorry for her not having a single chance. At the same time, I disliked Will. I wanted him out immediately.

But guess what! As time went on, I started to see Nicole's true colours. I need not mention them. The way she treated other people. Although Will lied, he said it openly to Nicole and others that he would lie in the game. Some people have said that Danielle did that too. No, she didn't. She admitted to lying in the DR, but never openly admitted it. What value is that? Will told his plan to the houseguests, so they had the choice to believe it was too good to be true or to believe him and take heed. Will was also gentle, despite his insults. His insults were not extremely personal; and they mostly, if not all, took place in the DR. They sounded like fun and something said in jest. His type of entries sounded like part of the game.

On the other hand, Nicole was busy being controlling, emotional, throwing fits, playing the mother figure and getting upset when people would decide to cook for the house. She used the cooking to her advantage, which I cannot blame her for. It's part of the game.

Basically, when it came down to it, it was who Will was against. Had Will been against, say, Bunky, people may have given the money to Bunky. Nicole's practice was seen as malicious and spiteful; whilst Will's practice was seen as less than personal, just pathetic and sometimes funny and charming. But despite Nicole's being spiteful, people still voted in her favour. The vote was close. I myself was kind of surprised that she got that much vote.

Basically, we seem too hasty to reach conclusions without sufficient data. We only have one BB instance to draw an inference. Our other choice is to use Survivor, but Survivor's had fierce female players win the game. Kelly's case was a lot similar to Nicole's case.

Here in BB 3, we have two females. The question will once again be, who played the game with the most integrity? I think we have a clear answer.

Wcv63

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I found Will's trash talking a lot more offensive than Dani's. I also thought his whole leukemia plan to be one of the most obnoxious, thoughtless and downright vile tricks I'd ever witnessed. Dani's trash talking makes her look like an amateur next to Will.

Gender is not an issue? I beg to differ. I think it has everything to do with it.

Jimmer

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I can't speak for others but I don't hold Dani to a different standard because she is a woman. And, as you can tell from my posts, I do find that there are things about Dani that I like. I just think that there is desperation in Dani's strategy that didn't exist in Will's. Maybe it's because she is more desperate for the money whereas Will was just having fun.

Foodbunny

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Because you personally found it more offensive doesn't make it objectively more offensive.

Wcv63

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well it is my opinion Foodbunny. Personally and objectively. I am only speaking for myself and why I believe gender is an issue. Objectively, planning to say one has leukemia to win a game is very offensive. Personally, planning to say one has leukemia to win a game is very offensive. How can anybody argue with that?

I know somebody WILL argue with that and say he didn't go through with his plan. BUT, the ONLY reason he didn't go through with the plan is because it was exposed. Not because he had a conscience or anything.

Foodbunny

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I that's part of why I found him funny. I laughed when I first heard of the plan because it was so over the top and stupid. The banners kept him in check, so he remained an enjoyable person to watch for me.

But ultimately, for me, it's not about the trash talking. It's about the enjoyment I get from watching a person. I don't enjoy Lisa or Dani very much, but Dani made comments that ticked me off personally so she's not the one I want to win.

Bohica

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I liked Dani in the beginning but grew to dislike her as the game progressed. Will, on the other hand, I disliked at the beginning but grew to root for him near the end. The difference was that Will was up against Nicole who turned almost everyone off as the game progressed. The other was that Will took all kinds of abuse from both Hardy and Nicole and returned maybe 1% of it back. Will also was the underdog. The members of Chilltown were quickly evicted from the game but Will kept surviving nomination after nomination. Same way that if Amy had been in the final two, I would have wanted her to win since she survived the chopping block all those times. Dani also had a partner to the very last week. Just like Nicole had with Hardy. I like to root for underdogs.

Onlymytulips

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
If Danielle were a guy.....using family as a reason to win the money would not be acceptable. It worked on Jason, since he was wet behind the ears and she milked him for all he was worth...$50,000.
The way she bashed people in the DR was uncalled for. When Will did any bashing he smiled, she got all bugged eyed and serious looking.
She is very outwardly greedy, overly emotional, synical with a twist of lemon!

Wcv63

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Everyone's opinion is set in stone at this point. Any debating is simply for the sake of entertainment. To each and every poster...good luck on having your fave come out on top!

Eden

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv, I agree with you! I find this whole comparison scenario ludicrous. Will and Danielle did not play the game the least bit alike. Their only similarities are that they both are in the final two and they were both honest in the DR.

I think you make a good point that if Danielle were a man she might be lauded. Who knows? I certainly don't think Lisa would be given the undeserved credit and support she is receiving if Danielle were a man. People would rush to point out how she had ridden "his" coattails! Ah well... 30 years and counting for equality!