Archive through September 26, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive FOUR: The conclusions we can draw from BB3's final vote.: Archive through September 26, 2002

Cindyluvsroddy

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 11:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
anyway you want to slice, dice it, distort it, or spin it - the jury has every right to vote the way they did.

If Dani did not trash talk as MUCH as she did - she would of had more votes - maybe even enough to win - but who knows!

People want to whine and complain that the jury didnt pic the "best" player - BOO HOO!

Lisa was the best player!!!

Dani got over anxious, hyper, aggressive, and lost site of this game ... and blew it.

that is Dani's fault and not the jury

Wcv63

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 11:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
There are so many misguided people who are completely wrong in their views and perceptions. I mean, if they don't agree with me then there is something seriously wrong with their perception receptors. But I forgive each and every one of you who refused to see the truth. I'm like that you know. Very forgiving. :O

Blaze

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
This is just my opinion of how the votes went and why Lisa won...

Danielle did play a hell of a game. I will be the first to admit she played it smoothly without anyone even knowing she was playing as hard as she was. For THIS.. she deserves high praise.

Lisa.. played the game randomly.. no one can say Lisa didn't play the game.. because she wouldn't have gone to final two if she hadn't. She made deals, she listened, she made friends, she kept an eye out. She didn't play as hard as Danielle did maybe.. but none the less she did play.

Frankly I think there were two things that made the houseguests vote the way they did....

#1 - I think they all agreed that Danielle had other people do her dirty work. This is true.. *I* think that makes a good player.. getting your deed done without having to do it yourself, BUT I think to them.. (And I can understand this) it wasn't HER really playing the game.. it was others playing it for her. Had Danielle done all of it herself, she would have stood a better chance.

#2 - What I think REALLY cinched it, was Lisa being the ONLY one to give up money in leiu of the phone calls. This move, which was genuine and not part of a game, showed Lisa was a genuine kind hearted person, more so than any of the others were. I think they former houseguests saw that and I think that is what made them all fall in line behind her...

I think Lisa showing genuine heart, combined with Danielle having others do her work, made Lisa the better player in their minds.

Thats just my opinion.. I could be wrong.

Pesto

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:16 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Regarding the slippery definition of the "best," give these statements some thought:

1) Lisa won and she is the "Best Player"
2) Danni came in second and she is the "Second Best Player"

My contention is that many people are unwilling to accept BOTH of these statments, even though they follow logically.

If one says Dani was the "best" player (e.g., Lisa lucked out, etc.), then one must accept that anyone can claim the "Best Player" label for any another HG because Dani did not win. A person who states that Dani was the best has based the definition of "best" on something other than winning the game....which doesn't make sense to me. (Even though I have done this :) )

On the other hand, if you say Lisa is the best player BECAUSE she won, then you MUST accept that Danni was a "better" player than the other 10 HGs (logically speaking) (e.g., if she blew it, then the others blew it worse. so to speak :) ).

This is why I think the label "best" is not that useful (even though I've used it).

Regarding the "best" (or winning) strategy, it is not constant from year to year or will vary based on who is in the house, luck, etc. Dani could follow the exact same strategy (mistakes and all) and win with 11 different people in the house. Lisa could follow the exact same strategy with 11 different people and lose. That is why superlatives like best/worst don't lend themselves to logical arguments about what works in the BB house.

Just some food for thought...

Coaster266

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
sexism, sexism, sexism - the vote shows that is was (and probably always will be) totally unacceptable for a woman to play the 'evil doctor'.

Bastable

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Americans are programmed to see everything as a black-and-white battle between good and evil. Apparently, there's no such thing as grey.

Coaster266

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
4-6 is gray, 3-7 is gray .... 9-1 is black-and-white.

Lycanthrope

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Blaze, I don't think you're wrong. I'm just about done posting my support of Lisa in these threads as it's obvious that those who don't think she should have won will not change their minds. So be it. Survivor just started and I'll be over on that board all season to rate and debate with.

Northstar

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
And if you've done much international travel, you'll find black and white is everywhere. Some places just don't embrace the victim as much as we do here.

Breezy

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I also wish that we could have received more personal information from HGs on their reasons for their final votes.

I have a feeling that CBS had mercy on Danielle. Knowing this was a live television broadcast, and realizing there was a great deal of negative publicity regarding Danielle on the net, I think out of pity they tailored the final show to limit a large portion of specific material which could have been discussed.

I can understand how relieved she must have been. It could have been much worse for her.

Misslibra

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You don't have to play this game like Dani played it. You can win without being a villian. Just follow your heart be true to yourself. Keep your eyes open and your mouth shut, and good things will come your way..

Loppes

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
MissLibra,
Well said.
Lon

Coaster266

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Misslibra - but it's more fun being the villian. Why did Dani lose votes for being 'evil' and Will gained them?

Tobor7

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 03:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Will looked like he was having a good time. He was very funny. Looked like he did not car if he won.

Dani "hated the game" said she was playing for her "family" was cruel when she didn't have to be and was just not funny.

Very big difference to me.

Wcv63

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bah Tobor. Selective memory is at work. Will was much more hateful.

Wendo

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv63, I agree, Will was A LOT more hateful last year than Danielle.

Pattycake

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Will may have been hateful but he was up against Nicole in the end who was one of the most hateful BB guests I can remember.
Will was supposed to be evil, but he was fun, respectful, and put up with Nicole's venom.
The houseguests saw him as the lesser of two evils.

Whit4you

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 05:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, can you name one of the many people that Will acted like best buds with to their face then dissed, mocked, made fun of, or was hateful to behind their back? I must have missed it... I only watched the live feeeds about 14 hours a day last year sooo probably missed it... who were those good friends of his that he was hateful too behind thier backs but acted like great buds to - to their face?

The people who say Will and Dani acted the same should clear this up for me and name the names of those who fit into the category above...

Course maybe that's because I don't recall Will acting like good friends with anyone but Mike and Shannon... and I don't recall him saying anything nasty about them behind thier back.

Sometimes I think I watched a different US BB 2 then others did.

The US BB 2 I watched..had Will getting nom'd all the time.. had a few people going to HIM asking him for some sort of deal... had him not breaking any deals that I recall...had him not treating people like their best bud then slamming them, mocking them dissing them behind their backs... had him - but yet I hear this 'sexism' claim because Dani and Will were alike??

I see no comparison between the two myself. But as I said - I musta watched a different US BB 2 then some of you did... :)

Maris

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I dont really understand the comparison to Will. Is it because he had the nickname evil will last year??? Will was not evil, the main reason was that he made it very clear throughout his diary rooms that he didnt take it seriously. It was all a joke.

There was also a period of time, I think it was after the hot tub incident where Nicole seriously lost it and you could see that Will was feeling genuinely sorry for her. He was saying nothing happened in the tub when everyone saw it on the feeds. When Nicoles Husband sent that terrible banner he felt genuinely sorry for her. You always got a sense that Will had compassion.

He warned people, I am going to lie to you, dont trust me and he would laugh. He laughed at himself probably more than he laughed at anyone else. Remember the tramboline????? I always had a sense from Will that he was a truly decent person but a royal pain in the butt. He was the mischievious kid that drove his mother nuts. He had a case of arrested development. Remember the stories about him driving his mother nuts as a kid.

Dani was seriously mean. It was about the game and it was about being cutthroat. She didnt give a damn how she got to her endgame because it was only business and even now, she doesnt give a damn. I did what I had to do. the rest of the world be damned, including all the people she personally hurt.

They are totally different people and if it was a final two of Will and Dani, Will would win hands down again.

Ginger1218

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, I have been reading these boards all summer, and your posts stand out particularly. I think you live in a fantasy land. When it comes to Dani, you have tunnel vision. It amazes me. I don't like or dislike her. I just am amazed at your total refusal to see anything she did as not perfect. I wonder what kind of blinders you wore to watch the show. I am not bashing you, just stating a point.

Avrey258

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Well, I guess I live in the same fantasy Land as Wendo..Hey Wendo!!

Back on topic, personally , it is obvious what the final vote means. Roddy worked over everyone on the jury including Josh. Josh even told Danielle it was like a pack of wild dogs in there. A bunch of bitter losers who had time to love and forgive each other but wouldn't give Danielle the same courtesy. I will gaurantee that if Danielle was evicted when Marcellas was they would all be playing the same card with her that they afforded each other.

The irony of the situation is how many interview offers Dani has been offered. What does that say? Lisa slid into a win, but Danielle was the real power behind BB3. Really, who wants to interview Lisa? Maybe she'll say HI! Beyond that?

Maris

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What I have learned is that Dani LOST, Roddy had nothing to do with it as much as it might make people fell better. Dani lost that one all on her lonesome. If it makes people more secure thinking that a guy who was evicted four weeks ago controlled every vote and that the votes had nothing to do with Dani being a •••••, then so be it. However, as dani always said LET THE HOUSE DECIDE. Well they decided and they decided that they did not want her getting the money. It had nothing to do with Roddy and everything to do with her.

So suck it up and admit Dani is responsible for her losing the big bucks not Roddy.

Llkoolaid

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I have to stick up for Wendo here, I don't think she ever said Dani was perfect or didn't make mistakes. I think most of her posts were defending her against the huge amount of posts that were just pot shots against Dani and not about discussing stategy. I think a lot of Wendo's post were trying to point out that a lot of the other hgs did as bad or worse than Dani but were not bashed nearly as much for it. I shouldn't take sides but I agreed with Wendo's posts, she spoke for a lot of Dani fans, she just did it better than most of us.

Sanfranjoshfan

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maris - *I'LL* admit that! I admit it...I admit it! DANI was to blame!!!!!

:)

Wendo

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 06:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ginger, if you want to debate my opinions and my posts, have at it at will. I have no problem. However, I genuinely ask that you not insult me personally, which your post, despite your comments otherwise, does.

I do not have tunnel vision when it comes to Dani. The MANY posts where I've discussed her trash talking and objected to it prove as such. Nor do I live in some "fantasy land" about BB or Dani the HG. I've viewed ALL the HG's objectively and with the understanding that they are human beings with flaws we all have at times. Additionally, I would disagree that I've ever said Dani was perfect on these boards. I never have. Please pull the post and support your arguments if you're going to put such a statement out there.

Lastly, while you state you're "not bashing" me, I think your post states otherwise because you're stating negative opinions about ME and not my arguments.

When you're prepared to debate properly by not attacking me, I'll be here.