Archive through September 22, 2002
MoveCloseDeleteAdmin

TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive TWO: What is the criteria for good game player or bad game player?: Archive through September 22, 2002

Machellewatches

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Seems to me the houseguests went in with their stratagies. Some of them failed. Marcellas was playing with his heart and the truth, but where was his heart when he was calling amy an alcoholic and where was the truth when he lied about his age. Under the radar or over the top, seems that they both work, look at the final two.

Eden

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:01 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa was not only under the radar, she was under the protection of Danielle as was Jason. Danielle wasn't over the top to those in the house, since most of them were clueless to her machinations until after their eviction when they watched tapes.

Good game playing is someone who formulates and carries out a winning strategy. Coattail riding is someone who latches onto that person and sails to the finals.

Weinermr

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
A good game player is the one who wins. A bad game player is everyone else.

Wcv63

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well then Jason wouldn't fit that catagory Eden as he was not hanging onto coattails but was in an actual partnership with Dani with both putting themselves "out there".

Onlyhuman

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It depends what game you are playing...

In baseball, a good gameplayer is one who helps his team win, either by scoring runs or preventing runs from scoring.

In tennis, it's the one who wins the most sets.

In tic tac toe, it's the one who gets three in a row.

In the big brother game, it's the one who survives to the end and still gets the majority of votes from the jury.

Machellewatches

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
well said onlyhuman, but i am just wondering, is it really possible to play a clean game and win? 12 different personalities and such, makes it hard to make everyone like you in the end, though it would make it interesting huh? just two great people at the end, it would at least make it harder to choose.

Onlyhuman

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 09:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm not exactly sure what a "clean" game would be. In all honestly, I don't think it's necessary to make everyone like you, though it certainly helps. I also think that a certain amount of lying and manipulating is going to occur simply because of the nature of the game.

To do those things and still get people to vote for you takes a very unique person...or it takes going up against a person that everybody hates.

Jason and Lisa, to a certain extent, both played fairly clean games. I know there are people who will argue with me because of the Gerry comments of Lisa, which were, no doubt, COMPLETELY inappropriate. Jason also said a few things regarding Amy, that I thought weren't appropriate. However, in the context of 85 days locked in a house, those were pretty good track records.

Notice though, that a nice one didn't pick another nice one to go to the finals. She may be nice but she's not stupid. She wants to WIN!

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 09:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Shouldn't the question be good game player vs. no game player?

Danielle went with her gut feelings most times and evicted hg's when she saw them as a threat. She was the one deciding who should go. She was the one making sure the votes were there. If the votes weren't there, she knew to go with the flow. She was the mastermind.

Jason was involved in the strategizing. He made some of the nominations.

Lisa did what Dani told her to do. She could have very easily been gone last week. My opinion is Jason chose the wrong person. IMO Lisa did 2 things which helped her to move to this position. 1. Bring Amy back instead of Eric. 2. Win this HOH. I guess you could also say she took up with Dani, but who approached who on that one (I honestly don't remember).

Now, one could say that she played to the jurors, meaning she really did nothing strategically in the game....where Dani played the strategic game but forgot the jurors. But could Lisa have gotten to the end in order to get the votes without Dani?

Cindyluvsroddy

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
well, a good game player hooks up with other players who are smart - able to hide an alliance - and work together to get the job done ..

Jason, Dani, and Lisa were the three best game players this year ...

However, what sets A great player from a good player is that last pivotal hoh that earns your right to the final 2 ..

what also seperates a good player from a great player is the fact that in the end - where it really counts - who did not make eniemies of the jury ....

the final votes will decide who is the "BEST" player this year

Wiseolowl

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Combine the strategizing of Danielle and the comparative humility and civility of Lisa and you have a pretty darn good player.

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
well, a good game player hooks up with other players who are smart - able to hide an alliance - and work together to get the job done ..


Is this saying align yourself with a good gameplayer?

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:29 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
As for my opinion of who was the best game player, here is my analogy:

LA Lakers
Danielle - Kobe Bryant
Jason - Shaq
Lisa - Jelani McCoy

Now, we all know that Kobe is the major, and best player on the Lakers. He plays a great game both offensively and defensively. Granted, he does commit some fouls.

Shaq, he can score the points, provided Kobe gets him the ball. He and Kobe make a great team! Shaq commits a few fouls too, mainly because of the position he is in.

Jelani, not so famous, he lays pretty low (on the bench...lol). He does come onto the court every once in awhile. But he did make a good decision in signing to the Lakers when a contract was offered.

Now, which player is most most instrumental for not only getting the Lakers into the finals, but also winning the Championship?

Note: In all fairness, I did not say Lisa was a Laker girl....LOL. I did actually put her on the team.

Tallyho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
A good player can not win this game
a bad player can not win this game
you have to a mediocre player
the good players are voted out because they are deemed threats and scare the other players
the bad players are voted out either early because they annoy many guests or they are kept around awhile and used before they are voted out.
If you are not that bad and not too good you get to stay under the radar and make it to the end.
All one has to do is look at the winners of past BB and Survivor to see that the mediocre players always win.
the best players get ganged up on and voted out.
and the dopes never make it to the end either.

Onlyhuman

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ahh, but Monalisa, what if, after Shaq has fouled out and Kobe can't get the ball to the hoop because he's double teamed, Jelani comes in, scores 12 points in the final minutes of the fourth quarter of the 7th game in Championship series and the Lakers manage to win by 1 point.

Are Jelani's contributions insignificant? No. In fact, they are critical to the success of the team. Should they be completely discounted simply because he plays on the same team as Shaq and Kobe? No.

Not everyone on a team can be the "star" but everyone can contribute. And everyone can wait and utilize to the best of their abilities the opportunities they are given.

BTW, I'm going with this basketball metaphor because you brought it up, but I think it's a tough fit for the BB game, since there is no unbiased way to give performance stats for the people in the BB house as there is in BBall.

Oh, yeah, and I hate the Lakers!

Csnog

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
A good game player "Keeps their eyes open and their mouth shut" Something most of the HG's forgot to do.

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Only,
Jelani wouldn't go in for Shaq. They play 2 different positions....lol.

I understand what you are saying, and I am not discounting Lisa. I am saying that Danielle is the best player and was far more instrumental in getting both she and Lisa to the final 2.

Several people have said that Lisa did well for herself by getting in with Dani, that makes Lisa a great game player. Much like saying a bench sitter is great player b/c his team made it to the finals or won the championship, it just isn't so.

Lisa did well by winning the final HOH and not voting for Eric to come back. I don't see much else to call her a great game player.

Tallyho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
yes you've said that numerous times already MonaLisa we get it

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tally, that is the first time I have said that Jelani and Shaq play different positions.

Ginger1218

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Clean playing means not a thing in this game.

Whoever wins, will have proven to be the "Best" player. However they did it, whether through popularity, or "good game" playing (a phrase thrown around).

Personally, I would rather Lisa win, I think she played as good a game as Danielle. We will see Wednesday who played better.

Don't forget, it may not only be who the Evicted HGs vote for, but who America finds to be their choice.

Onlyhuman

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL, Monalisa...I actually didn't mean that Jelani came in for Shaq, just that both he and Kobe had been neutralized, much like Jason & Danielle were neutralized in the game.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. To me, playing the game is NOT how many people you con, how many people you set up for eviction or how many alliances you have. It's all about making it to the end and getting the money.

What Danielle has done is like playing a baseball game in which you hit 3 homeruns but make 1 error on defense that allows the opposing team to score the winning run. The fact that you hit those homeruns shows that you are pretty darn good...but you still lost the game!

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Only, I hate baseball. No fair...LOL.

Yes, the jurors are a part of the game which they have to play. But, my premise is that Lisa would not even been there were it not for Danielle and Jason's game playing abilities.

I guess I look at it as Danielle scored the homeruns, Jason got some doubles, and Lisa was walked (no, that requires knowing which balls to swing at and which ones to hold your bat)...more like she was hit with a pitch, or even was a pinch runner.

Tallyho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
MonaLisa:
I was not referring to the first 12 words of your post, I was commenting on the next 200, yes you have said that over and over and over. We get it. The ridiculous basketball analogies are fine.

Monalisa

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tally, from reading your posts, I thought you enjoyed repitition.

Of course, I have only seen you repeat what a terrible game Danielle played, who do you think played the best game?

Tally, in the future, if you don't want to read my posts, my name is conveniently listed to the left of each of them, feel free to skip over them....but I am interested in knowing who you think the best player has been.

Showmemoney

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
LOL, Mona... rock on. I was thinking the same thing.

Tallyho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
MonaLisa:
I was just following your lead on other threads, where people ask me a question and when I reply to THEM you feel the need to tell me I am repeating myself.
Please follow your own advice and ignore my posts then instead of waiting till I give you a taste of your own medicine to have the ignore idea.