Archive through September 28, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive FOUR:
The conclusions we can draw from BB3's final vote.:
Archive through September 28, 2002
Coaster266 | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:37 am     Whit4you - I understand now. You feel that "The conclusions we can draw from the BB3's final vote." are.... 1. Women should pay for themselves on dates. 2. If a girl moves in with a guy she should not give up her job. It was so clear. How did I miss that. I'm not trying to start a fight here, just trying to stay OT. |
Ginger1218 | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:11 am     Ok Wendo, I am going to apologize. I did not mean to offend you, or bash you. I guess I was just in a cranky mood and was just tired of seeing Dani's meanness being excused, that I forgot that everyone has their own opinion. I ridiculously ignored the fact that I am an opinionated pain in the butt and should have kept my mouth shut. So, I humbly ask you to ignore what I said, (PMS). I am usually a very nice person, believe me. LOL |
Foodbunny | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:34 am     I'm the pay my own way kinda gal and I still didn't like Danielle. I don't have a problem with strong women or men, I have a problem with humorless gossiping, which she did a lot of. Yes, sometimes she did it for laughs, but sometimes she was also incredibly intense and that just turned me off. And there was that whole godless people aren't trustworthy thing. |
Wendo | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:32 pm     Ginger1218, Thank you for the apology, very much appreciated. I really mean that. I had a "moment" several weeks back myself and you end up thinking, Who just invaded my body? LOL! I apologized myself then, though I don't know if the person accepted it. But I'm glad I did. (Actually, I've probably apologized several times on the board for things I've written. LOL! The nature of the medium. You mean to say something funny or objectively, and it just doesn't come out that way. Then you say, DANG! I really f*cked that up.) Anyway, long story longer...LOL! Thanks and I really admire you for saying something. You ARE a nice person, that is certainly apparent. We all say things sometimes that we don't mean or come out all wrong. It happens. No bad feelings WHATSOEVER. |
Whit4you | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:50 pm     Coaster - lol - ok guess your only interested in 'the cultural mindset of sexism' as it relates to Danielle Reyes... That's fine. Take care |
Csnog | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:21 pm     Well, I had to watch the final in a hotel but will now re watch it at home after reading the board. I want to see all the things that were pointed out and I missed such as body language. Dannie won the game but lost the jury not in the DR but in the house itself. Lisa won the game on the backs of Dannie and Jason. AFTER Eric was evicted. Some have forgotten some of the things that Lisa said in the house and now consider her a SWEET girl. How soon we also forget that Eric said the girl (Lisa) was going,(to Roddy) because $500,000 could buy a lot of A$$ on the outside. I found it interesting that 1 hour before the show on a promo for BB they showed ONLY a picture of Lisa and not a split of Lisa and Dannie. Do the producers of BB read this web site? You betcha! Now its time to get on with my life and by the way I paid for our first dinner date years ago. |
Whit4you | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:32 pm     My conclusion There can be no conclusion unless we include all inclusions in the conclusive conclusion. While I will conclude that conclusions can be concluded without including all inclusions, I conclude that a conclusion isn't really a conclusive conclusion without all inclusions included. I'd like to conclude this conclusion with a final inclusion... I do luv ya all - even the anti-roddy-pro-dani-anti-foth-pro-lizard contingent! Luv Whit  |
Lisad | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:42 pm     I conclude I need to buy some exercise videos and lose my Big Brother induced flabby butt! |
Monalisa | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:23 pm     There was a thread title "if Danielle was a boy" (or something like that). I did not even read it b/c I thought it was totally off the mark. But, my husband and I were talking about this tonight. I think maybe Danielle being female did factor into it. First, we all know how women are. CATTY. They simply cannot tolerate another woman saying those things to or about them. BUT, they can tolerate it (and much more) from a man....as Amy and Chiara have shown us regarding Roddy and Amy regarding Marc. Second, a man can't admit to a woman "outplaying" him. A man could have admitted to a woman using her "sexual prowess" to manipulate and play him, but never to being beaten at his own game (remember Roddy saying he "let" Lisa win at chess). <This poster agrees to men paying for dates. It's called courtship.> |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:55 pm     BTW--- Of course he let her win the chess game. HE knew how to play chess. She did not. He taught her. There is no way a person who just learned how to play chess can beat someone who plays chess unless they let them win. If you play chess you know this much about the game. |
Misslibra | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:57 pm     Eric taught Lisa and Roddy how to play chess. |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:00 pm     I thought I saw Roddy that same day telling her how certain pieces could and could not move? |
Whit4you | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:04 pm     MissL - actually Roddy was a chess player prior to entering the house (not that anyone but a fellow chess player cares about me clearing that one up lol) |
Oregonfire | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:07 pm     I'd say that's true about chess, Tobor--or at least let the newbie almost win just to prolong the game and try out various moves and pieces. I had a "good" teacher once long after I first learned and he kept on beating me in five moves or less and eventually made me cry. Great chess player, lousy teacher. I thought I was an okay player until I played him and lost my confidence. Actually I'd like to play again sometime now that I'm older and not so easily convinced that I'm stupid. |
Misslibra | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:13 pm     No Eric was the chess player before coming into the house he won tropys(sp) even a title I think. But you could also be right about Roddy knowing something about chess also, but I know Eric was the one I thought who taught them both. |
Monalisa | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:28 pm     OK, the chess comment was not a MAJOR part of my post. It was simply something that occurred to me as I was typing my post. Geez, I didn't mean to turn this into the Chess thread. I still stand behind my reasoning as to why Danielle being female factored into the final vote. |
Whit4you | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:29 pm     Ya Chess is like no other game out there...lol. I learned by watching to very very good players play each other for a few months - and I'd get to play one or two games each night... nothing more satisfying as when you someday really beat them (more then once lol) I don't see how you'd really teach someone to play chess without 'letting them win' (ie saying no if you do that.. then I'll do this then....) But obvoiusly unless your a chess player it'd be tough to understand I think. Chess is like no other game - there is absolutely 0 chance in Chess if your playing with a equally matched player.. it's 100% skill with the exception of a possible but unlikely 'bad' move (relatively speaking to your matched skill level) With Chess you can learn the basic moves in a day - With Monopoly you can learn the moves in a day - With Chess - you get better (if you have the mental capacity) with each game you play 1000 games into it... With Monopoly - after a few dozen games - it's basically just luck of the dice and a bit of skill. Well don't really know why I am writing this I doubt anyone but a fellow Chess player cares to read it lol. A good teacher WILL not play at their best against a newbie that would be completely pointless - because they wouldn't even understand how they lost! When you play chess - after you've played for a while... you are able to think a few moves ahead with all the peices on the board.. "if I do this ... then she could do this.. or that or this or that... but if I do this then she could do this or that or this or that.... and so on through all your possible choices... and as you get better your able to think to the NEXT possible choice) Learning by watching is good - because as they did thier thinking.. I'd be doing mine.. thinking 'he could do this... or that" in the beginning I was only to think of all the possible moves for him and the other players options... then eventually I'd be able to think no wait because if he does this, then he'd do that and then... Winning against a new chess player - is like Micheal Jorden playing a kindergartner and being proud of beating them.. there's nothing to be proud of in this case and you didn't really WIN! LOL. Winning at chess - is beating the person you taught 1000 games later... then ya you won the game and it is fun then Damn I miss chess.. why'd I ever give it up Well I'm gonna shut up now cause like I said I can't imagine this post interesting anyone but a fellow chess player who already knows all this lol. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:41 pm     "The conclusions we can draw from BB3's final vote. " The final vote was cast by 9 people that did not want to reward Dani with a half a million dollars after denigrating them mercilessly and needlessly on the internet and national television for three months. My conclusion is that they had the option to vote for whomever they wanted and for whatever reason they wanted. Dani made it personal and so they vote personally. I don't understand why her gender would have had any bearing on the outcome. After all, a woman DID win the game. Had Jason made it to the final 2, then Jason would have won. Had Jason and Dani been in the final 2 and if they had had each others' personalities, then Dani would have won. I didn't evaluate Dani or Lisa (or any of the HG, for that matter) on the basis of their gender....but rather on the basis of their behavior. |
Oregonfire | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 10:51 pm     Okay, just to be clear--the person who taught me chess was different than the one who I took lessons from years later! I played frequently before that and had a decent 50-50 type record until I met this guy, who claimed he was the best player in Philadelphia. I think he was--he graduated high school when he was like, 15 years old, so was a total brainiac. He seemed to really not have the patience for teaching me how to play chess in more than five moves. Just had to clear that up. Okay I feel better. |
Monalisa | Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:00 pm     Sanfran, I agree 100% that Danielle was judged on her behavior in the house. I am just making an observation as to how that judgement related to her gender. Look at it another way. Danielle played with a strategy and her "gut." Lisa played with her heart. You may not agree that each woman played in this manner, but these were their words. A woman playing with her heart is acceptable whereas the way Danielle played would have been acceptable had she been a man. So, I think the conclusion we can draw from this is in order for a woman to win BB or Survivor, your "game" must fit into that cubbyhole which would be considered "womanly." <I am not saying that women are not as smart as men. I am speaking of general perceptions of men and women.> |
Cindyluvsroddy | Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 09:00 am     monalisa - is doesnt matter on the gender in this case if a man said the very same nasty little comments about the other HG's like Dani did - he would have ended up with $50,000 or not of even gotten that far .. |
Sanfranjoshfan | Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 10:13 am     Monalisa - "A woman playing with her heart is acceptable whereas the way Danielle played would have been acceptable had she been a man." I guess some folks might think that way....but I know that *I* rooted against her because I found her behavior deplorable. Whether she was a man or a woman, those remarks were simply unacceptable.. Like I said...if she had behaved like Jason did...and if Jason had acted like Dani, then I would have been rooting for Dani instead of Jason. Btw, if Roddy had been trashing Tonya's motherhood and also saying he wanted to spit on Dani while calling her vile things (AFTER she was evicted and out of the running to win the game), then I wouldn't have supported him either. I suppose some folks will look at gender as an indicator to tell them how to react to people....I just know that *for me*, gender doesn't come into play. Dani's behavior was unacceptable for *any* gender....I see the behavior first, the gender later. Some of that (for me) may come from the fact that I am a gay man living in a predominantly gay neighborhood. The gayfolk I know have all struggled to find themselves and cast off the predetermined roles that society has tried to pressure us into. The result is that the gay men and women that I know do not automatically fall into traditional roles. I see my community as individual human beings that have defined themselves for who they are, not simply cookie cutter cut-outs that "should" follow predetermined roles. Living in my community for 20 years I find that I look at all people like that. I think seeing people in prredetermined roles is simply a bad habit born of social indoctrination. Maybe you're right...maybe most folks do feel that way about Dani and are reacting to her gender...I just know that *I'm* not. JMO |
Monalisa | Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 11:40 am     Sanfran, I don't think people are reacting to her gender, but rather how a person of her gender behaved and it is probably a subconscious thought. This is not going to hold true for everybody. I actually liked Danielle and seen much of the humor in her antics. You say that had Dani acted like Jason, and Jason acted like Dani, you would have supported Dani. Were you rooting for Jason in this game? If Jason had been in the final 2 against anybody besides Dani, would you still have wanted him to win? Jason was by far the nicest in the house (except for maybe Lori, but she wasn't there long enough to judge). Again, I am not saying they voted against her because of her gender, but rather how a person of her gender behaved. |
Katlady53 | Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:17 pm     I can state with 100% certainty that I did not dislike Dani because of her gender. I have worked in a male-dominated profession (law) for many many years, and I'm ecstatic when a new female attorney enters the scene and stands her ground. If Dani had been a man, I would have disliked him, too. I worked with a male attorney who behaved almost exactly like Dani, and he was the most disliked attorney in our office. I think it's possible to play from the gut (as opposed to playing from the heart) and still be a decent, likeable human being, regardess of gender. |
Itsallgood | Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:19 pm     #100 Wooohoo. My answer to this thread is: Lisa Won $500,000. Danielle Won $50,000. Simple enough for me. ;-) |
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