Archive through September 21, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive ONE:
My Big Brother Manifesto - From a Superfan:
Archive through September 21, 2002
Superfan | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:22 pm     My manifesto: First post EVER on this board, but long time lurker. I am what you call a superfan of Reality shows. I watched Survivor from the start, Big Brother from the start, and Amazing Race. I screamed, stomped and swore when Hatch won. But grudgingly accepted that he WAS the ultimate Survivor, he WAS the best player. I barely whimpered when Eddie won (that first show just didn't bring ANY strong reactions from me). I LOVED to hate Will last year, then by the end, just loved loving the guy. Too hilarious! This year's Big Brother though is just leaving me with a REAL SOUR taste. Dani has OUTWITTED, OUTSMARTED, OUTPLAYED them all! Yeah, I know, that's from the 'other' show (Survivor), but still applies to this game. That's what this game (and all Reality shows) is all about. It's not about who can make the most friends, who can be the most lovable, the most kindest, the most luckiest. It's about throwing a bunch of people in a house, locking them up, and seeing who can fight their way & manipulate themselves into the final two to try to WIN $500,000. Has she (Dani) talked nasty about the others? Undeniable. Have the others? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes. Uh huh. My opinion on Dani's nasty mouth? She has to 'demonize' the others in her mind in order to knock them out one by one, AND NOT FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT. She's playing hard ball, she's playing for her life! But she's incapable of being ruthless with those she genuinely cares about. So she demonizes them. Makes the job alot easier on herself. Has she lied outright? Yup. But she has the cahoonas to admit it, and says flat out she's done what she's done for the sake of herself and Jason (her ally). Is there a 'certain' evicted houseguest out there right now that doesn't even have the B_lls to admit he's done the same? All in the name of the game? Yup. Why won't he admit what we've ALL seen him do? Because then he'd have to admit that Dani beat him at his own game. This way, with his denial, he's presenting it as the sorrowful 'bad' overcame the 'good'. Blah. Whatever! And I USED to like the guy! Now he's just a sorry piece of work who's trying to convince the world we didn't see what we saw. Innocent as a dove, but sly as a snake. In the end game, this will hurt her. Why? Because Big Brother is in danger of becoming a 'highschool' popularity contest, and a vote based on personal slights, not a vote for gameplay. If Dani makes it to the final two with Lisa, and Lisa wins, I here and now VOW to NEVER watch Big Brother again. I'm interested in the show for the drama, the playing, the outsmarting. THAT'S what the game is SUPPOSED to be about. I'm not interested in Big Brother to watch the 'in' crowd vote for their friend. Lisa is sweet. She has done well, undeniably, but ONLY because Dani was willing to bring her along. That's the ONLY reason why Lisa's in the house. Dani played it that way. If Jason wins against Dani, I could semi-reconcile myself to that. He's adorable and has played VERY well and was damn smart to align himself with Dani right from the start. He worked with Dani to bring them where they are now. Again though, he's where he is because of Dani's brilliance. Dani, you trash talker you, you ARE the BEST player EVER in Big Brother. You didn't go with the flow, you CREATED the flow!!!! If you make it to the final two, and walk away second...I'm done with what even Marcellas himself has said...'it always comes down to a popularity contest'. And a popularity contest, people, is not what I'm interested in. Over and out. |
Puttergirl | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:28 pm     Very well stated, Superfan. I've been pretty neutral on the whole issue on who should win, but have felt that Dani played an excellent game. I think now, I have to agree with you. She did what it takes to win, good, bad or ugly. You might like Lisa and Jason more, but they wouldn't be at the end without her. Alas, though, I don't think its in the cards. Might be a good lesson for future reality players. Lesson: It doesn't matter how well you play the game if everyone else hates you at the end! |
Maris | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:33 pm     Lesson: It doesnt matter how well you play the game if you dont have the votes in the end. The best she can hope for is money for a new car. |
Alegria | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:36 pm     Lesson: When there is a choice the lesser of two evils will prevail |
Bmh | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:39 pm     unfortunately you are right Alegria..but that isn't the way it should be Superfan..had a excellent post Dani played the best game..despite the talking trash.. |
Meggieprice | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:42 pm     Well said Superfan! I hope you do end up staying around, and next year join us posting, because you have a lot to add. |
Superfan | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:47 pm     "Lesson: It doesn't matter how well you play the game if everyone else hates you at the end!" And "Lesson: It doesnt matter how well you play the game if you dont have the votes in the end." And this is my biggest beef...the game is in danger of turning into who is 'better' liked, who is more 'popular' than whose game play was best. "Lesson: When there is a choice the lesser of two evils will prevail" Yet who among them can 'judge' the 'evil', when they THEMSELVES participated in that 'evil'? Dani just had more airtime because she's been there the longest. Pot...Kettle...Black |
Hawaiiandew | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:48 pm     Superfan, Dang are we the same person---you must be my missing twin. I feel the EXACT same way. Thanks for voicing "OUR" views so eloquently. |
Danddur | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:53 pm     I do think Dani has played the "best" game. The best and most honest game. When she was playing the game she was not honest, but when she was in the diary room she has been honest with herself and the audience. She knew she lied and admitted it. I think her honesty in the diary room gave the audience insight into how she was playing the game. Unlike others who had morals at times and not having morals at other times, she openly admitted in the diary room that she was doing what was necessary to win. She knew she was lying and that there was no way to spin it other than that. I don't think many of the contestants can honestly say they have been honest with themselves throughout. That is why I like Dani. |
Gramma | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:54 pm     Kudos on a well thought-out, intelligent and honest post. I too am a reality show junky. I'm not a fan of soap operas. Don't like em. I've said all along. the game isn't about making 11 new friends. It's about getting 10 of them evicted out of the house while keeping yourself in. seems simple enough to me. |
Weinermr | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:55 pm     The voice of dissent has arrived. Just because Danielle has engineered the ouster of many HG's and has maneuvered herself into the current situation with Jason and Lisa doesn't mean she "deserves" to win. The only person who "deserves" to win is the person that DOES win. It is only one point of view to say that the person who successfully manipulates weeks worth of choices in the BB House is the one who "deserves" to win. I (and some others) have a different point of view. Great points Superfan, but it is not how everyone sees the situation. Please keep posting, because EVERYONE'S point of view is important. |
Xcentric1 | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:55 pm     Super, I understand that she had to trash the victim in order to get others to vote them out. That was brilliant playing. She screwed up royally when she trashed people after they were gone. There was no point to ripping them apart after they were out. A good player would have forgotten all the bad things she said about them while they were there and wept because they were gone. She should have bemoaned the loss of each one and pointed only to their good qualities. She should have said she was wrong to have led the campain against them. It's possible she didn't realize, until it was too late, that they would all see and hear every word she said. Maybe she thought only BB saw the day to day and didn't know about the internet until Jason recently started talking about it, which coincided with her seeming to be working towards second place. |
Crossfire | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:56 pm     Great post, but I find some holes that maybe provide some food for thought, and allow you to join in again for the ride next year regardless of the outcome this year. I will quote some of your complaints and address them in what follows.
Quote:If Dani makes it to the final two with Lisa, and Lisa wins, I here and now VOW to NEVER watch Big Brother again. I'm interested in the show for the drama, the playing, the outsmarting. THAT'S what the game is SUPPOSED to be about. I'm not interested in Big Brother to watch the 'in' crowd vote for their friend.
The key here, is that we know this happens, it has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future. Perhaps Dani did not outsmart everyone as much as she is given credit for. By taking Lisa to the end, if in fact it was Dani's doing, she left a gaping hole in the endgame. She should have played even smarter, and found someone else to put in that third spot. Maybe a Gerry would have been better, I don't think he had a lot of support from the others.
Quote:It's not about who can make the most friends, who can be the most lovable, the most kindest, the most luckiest. It's about throwing a bunch of people in a house, locking them up, and seeing who can fight their way & manipulate themselves into the final two to try to WIN $500,000.
This is just your interpretation of the game. The unfortunate truth is that there is a jury at the end, that is the final hurdle. You cannot just decree that friends and feelings are not important, and have it be so. For your statement to be true, they would play down to one player, and their would be no jury. But there is. Period. You can't will it away. Getting to the final two is not really all that hard, therefore, it's not worth much money. Finding a way to get to the final two with the most support is very difficult, and that's why the prize is so much larger.
Quote:My opinion on Dani's nasty mouth? She has to 'demonize' the others in her mind in order to knock them out one by one, AND NOT FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT.
Maybe this is wrong. Why should one get a free ride in evicting friends? This is why Dani is going to have a rough ride in the end. When evicting a friend, you SHOULD feel guilty. And if you trash your friend into the ground to save your own guilt, then why the holy heck should they feel any in the end if they vote against you? You took the easy road, you feel like you got off scot free. People are not going to reward that. That is cowardly, selfish, and somewhat inhumane.
Quote:Dani, you trash talker you, you ARE the BEST player EVER in Big Brother.
This remains to be seen. From what I can tell, Dani blew it, and blew it big time. She completely ignored the endgame until about a week or two ago. This game has two parts, and the second part is worth 10 times the first part. The better player, is one who could win the endgame. The best player is one can win both. |
Floresmama | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:56 pm     I totally agree with everything you had to say Superfan. I know that if Danielle is not in the final two I will not watch the conclusion of BB3. I won't have the heart for it besides it will be two boring to watch. I personally don't feel that Lisa has done anything to be in the money for. The very first thing she really won was on Thursday night in the pool. Her HOH was handed to her. Her POV win was because no one else wanted it. She spent the whole first half of the summer either injured or sick. Danie has been playing since day one and there will be no justice if she is sent home today. |
Danddur | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:58 pm     So, X you would argue that being nice and not letting the DR in on your innermost thoughts is a better way to play the game. It would be boring for the audience if that were true. Dani has played the best game. |
Pcnot | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:06 pm     Dani did not play the best game because SHE PISSED OFF ALL REMAINING HG'S, THAT WILL VOTE. Just thought I'd throw that little part in. |
Bbholden | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:08 pm     We dare not agree or admit to Superfan's astute theory as to the purpose of the game. The purpose being, a no holds barred, all out, cutthroat, competition. A competition to prove the last man/woman standing is indeed so uncivilized as to resort to the vilest of actions, slandering of other persons, and even dehumanizing another person. For the sake of money or notoriety. And no one would catch on, or not enough, even to the end. Congratulations on your ability to not feel guilty for taking this era into a chaotic and violent storm of anarchy. Just being dramatic, but you know, to reward the actions of Dani, Roddy, all of them, just might lead to an era of total abandonment of all ethics and morals. Or so some think. The game is no longer a nice game, and even though we enjoy the voyueristic aspect, we don't really want to admit to it. We don't publicly want to reward it. People, the game cannot be taken so seriously or we may be talking ourselves into an era that duplicates all those sci-fi big brother B movies. |
Superfan | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:12 pm     "The only person who "deserves" to win is the person that DOES win." In this case, we can agree to disagree ok? I see a real potential for THIS show (BB3), that the more popular one is going to walk away with the cash. Obviously, I think that goes against the true intention of the GAME. "By taking Lisa to the end, if in fact it was Dani's doing, she left a gaping hole in the endgame. She should have played even smarter, and found someone else to put in that third spot." Again, agree to disagree. I feel she HAD to bring Lisa along to the end. She gave her word to her at a time when she NEEDED Lisa's alliance. Gerry just couldn't be trusted. He's what ya'd call a flip flopper. Nothing against him, he was all about Gerry. "The unfortunate truth is that there is a jury at the end, that is the final hurdle." True enough. My frustration is that "I" believe the jury should be voting on game play, not personal feelings. "Maybe this is wrong. Why should one get a free ride in evicting friends?" That comment about Dani 'demonizing' was my own speculation. Is it right to do in REAL life? Never. Is it possibly ok in a GAME to get the results you have to get? In a GAME, I feel it is. "This remains to be seen. From what I can tell, Dani blew it, and blew it big time. She completely ignored the endgame until about a week or two ago." She was acting like a Reality Show purist, that the GAMEPLAY would win you the money, NOT popularity. That's what I think anyhow. |
Hawaiiandew | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:12 pm     Crossfire, You do too have the right to feel guilt free....in this game you have to keep your mental stability, whatever you can do to achieve that will help you in the long run. Dani is a very feeling person, and her subconcious keeps telling her she needs to get rid of her guilt by demonising others. It is all about self preservation.... GO DANI |
Crossfire | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:19 pm     Quote:So, X you would argue that being nice and not letting the DR in on your innermost thoughts is a better way to play the game. It would be boring for the audience if that were true. Dani has played the best game.
The truth is, I don't think most people's innermost thoughts are fit for public consumption. For 500G's, you would not be able to buy my innermost thoughts. I think their is a lot that can be said in the DR that is interesting without being offensive. Take Lisa's recent ramblings where she is opening questioning what is going on around her, wondering aloud if things are not as they appear to be. That is good DR in my opinion, and neither Jason or Dani would take offense to them. It is not necessary to go into the DR, and tell us you think someone is super nasty, especially if you want their vote in the end. With regard to your final statement, Dani has not played the 'best' game, she is just one of the few standing. Jason has played a better game, if she could have behaved more like him, then I would agree. This is a 24/7 game, not 9 to 5 like in real life. You can't say one thing to someone in the afternoon, then rip them apart at one in the morning, you WILL get busted on it. That seems so clear to me that I am surprised I even need to post it. And in case anyone thinks I am just ripping on Dani, I would say the same thing about any of them if they were in the same position. It applies across the board. |
Alegria | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:25 pm     For me it has been a demonstration of what works and what doesn't in human behavior. How a person can: create and break alliances backstab or be loyal have bad habits that can cost them keep or lose their sense of humor They move forward either a little or a lot until in the end the sum total of their actions and whether or not they personally hurt others will directly affect the level of their reward. It is interesting to see the different degrees of confidence and what makes the different hg's insecure and how easy it is to lose perspective and forget about the audience. There is tons of stuff to learn from all of this. |
Weinermr | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:29 pm     <In this case, we can agree to disagree ok?> Of course it's OK Superfan! That's what this board is all about. I happen to think that the purpose of the show is to get ratings and lots of advertising money for the producers and the network that broadcasts it. The higher moral purpose that some would want it to portray is not part of the show that currently airs. The show that each of us WANTS it to be will never air, because the show would have to be too many things to too many people. |
Crossfire | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:30 pm     Quote:True enough. My frustration is that "I" believe the jury should be voting on game play, not personal feelings.
That would be fine if it were not for the jury. The jury is part of the game. Winning the jury has to be part of your game play. You don't even need them to be your friends, you just need their respect. She could have won this hands down on respect for amazing maneuvering alone had she not played negative behind peoples backs.
Quote:Is it possibly ok in a GAME to get the results you have to get? In a GAME, I feel it is.
Yes, I agree, in a game, it possibly is. In this game it is not. The feeds force you to be on your toes 24/7. In survivor, this would work, people can't get out, and find out all the nasty stuff you did, but the essence of this game, is that you need to play it from the second you wake up in the morning, until you hit your pillow at night. And if you are Eric, you even need to be careful when you are sleeping.
Quote:She was acting like a Reality Show purist, that the GAMEPLAY would win you the money, NOT popularity. That's what I think anyhow.
Same as above, in another game, yes, in this one, the jury is part of the gameplay, you cannot forsake them for short term gains. |
Gina8642 | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:33 pm     Superfan I absolutely agree with most of your post especially the part about 'Dani has OUTWITTED, OUTSMARTED, OUTPLAYED them all!' Dani has shown an amazing singlemindedness in this game that is absolutely amazing. She was always attune to everything positive or negative said about her or Jason, she was always on point pushing her agenda. So, I absolutely agree she played an amazing game. However, I still don't want her to win. I found her bashing appalling and worse than any of the others. I just don't want to see this behavior rewarded no matter the reasons behind it. Do I think she does not 'deserve' to win? No. I've said it before, to me there is no 'DESERVES' in this game. It is only a game; no player is more deserving than another no matter who they are in the game or out. And I agree with all that say the one who wins is the one who played the *best* game. (Whether the winner is Danielle, Jason, or Lisa.) |
Pcnot | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 03:33 pm     Abusive statements in the Dr is not good game playing, it is akin to publicly having all ten of your fingers up your butt. Unlike Will who was amusing, and truthful, Dani is just clueless. |
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