Archive through September 20, 2002
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive ONE: Dani -- The Most Trustworthy of The All?: Archive through September 20, 2002

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Old habits die hard. I am sorry she didn't think more of her chances and attempt some damage control about a month ago. She already had Jason in her corner; to waste a valuable ally like that and not act more refined in her pursuit was simply lousy strategy. She wasn't TRUSTWORTHY in her protection of the gift she received: Jason. Bad mistake.

Hawaiiandew

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Dani knows she will not win, but she is happy with the $50,000. She is gracifully accepting it.
Last night she told Jason that she was not feeling it in her gut ...and she thinks she won't get the votes.
Jason tried to count the votes to her, but I think he was way off.
I hope she can pull it out though.....

What555456

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cmore

So you believed the impression CBS wanted to give about voters against Dani in last night's show? I assume you know like we all do that CBS has almost always tried to steer the audience away from what is really happening. Why, then, do you place any faith in what you heard last night?

of the three you mentioned -- Lori, Tonya and Roddy -- the only one I think is a sure vote against her (I could be wrong, of course) is Lori --and that is only because Lori was in the house for so short of a time and the only significant thing she experienced, besides being evicted, was a fight with Dani.

You all may be right. This may be just wishful thinking on my part. Hell, we do not even know if she will be in the Final 2. But what I see is that she has 3 of the 5 votes she needs at this point because three people have very recently said they want her to win. Outside of Eric voting for Lisa, no one else has said in the past few days they will vote for either Lisa or Jason.

From a simply logical perspective, what other conclusion can one draw from the most immediate facts than Dani is in the lead right now?

Cindyluvsroddy

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"From a simply logical perspective, what other conclusion can one draw from the most immediate facts than Dani is in the lead right now?"

ummmm lets see...

the fact that quite a few HG's have said they dont want Dani to win ..

Penpoint

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Trustworthy? No, just strategic.
Manipulative and deceitful? Of course, but that's part of the game.
Best player of this game? Most likely--especially if she wins.
Do I want her to win? Absolutely not!

Danielle is a master of manipulation. She has all the techniques down pat: the tone, the touch, the encouragement. Many thought Roddy was a master manipulator, but he just had the words and the logic; Danielle, on the other hand, uses body language and vocal shadings, appeals to emotions and fears, and reinforces her "caring." It is obvious that these techniques for getting what she wants are well ingrained. These are not traits she developed just for this game. She uses them too well and too comfortably for them to be new or stand-by; they are the traits she has been using in life.

It is the same with the negative characteristics she has exhibited, which may in fact be the cause of her downfall in this game: the pettiness, the backbiting, the rumor-mongering, the obsession with an enemy (the devil). These traits are also ingrained and well-practiced, and they indicate Danielle's real character.

There are certainly things I can admire about Danielle, but for the most part, I find her pretty detestable. Looking and listening to her on the feeds and on the TV show just about makes my skin crawl. So, to bring this back to the question posed by this thread--no, in my opinion she is not trustworthy, much less the "most trustworthy" of all.

Phillymom

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think it's just a matter of semantics, What. If a person says "I want so-and-so to win" then, in my mind, that translates to "I'm going to vote for so-and-so to win," because, from a simply logical perspective, why would you vote for someone who you DON'T want to win?

Jaysgal

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"What555, although no one has said they will vote for Lisa, we are going on how many people do not like Danielle."

Huh? Didn't Eric, Marcellas and Roddy say that they wanted Lisa to win? Granted, they didn't say they would vote for her, but they also said explicitly that they would not vote for Danielle. Again, most houseguests see Lisa as a weak link and think that the game's going to Jason and Danielle. If Lisa wins HOH (gooooooooooo Lisaaaaaaaaaaa!!!), she would be proving to the evicted houseguests and Danielle and Jason that she's no fool and she's a fierce competitor. And then, if she further evicts Danielle, she would be doing what the rest of the houseguests could not do and did not figure to do. Again, that alone makes a case for her merit.

What555, there were several interviews of former houseguests. The interviews weren't all by CBS. Amongst the several interviews, Roddy and Marcellas were rooting for Lisa and said they would not vote in favour of Danielle. Eric has expressed his desire for Lisa to win. Again, most of the interviews are on the presumption that Jason and Danielle would be the final two.

Hawaiiandew

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
ok I am ready to duck again for a comment I am about to make:

I think Dani threw so many competitions because she wanted to be trustworthy. So many people saw this as her trying to get others to do her dirty work.... but as Dani said last night, she had to throw the HOH's because she had a deal with the devil.
Now she is sooooooo upset because she wants to be trustworthy with Lisa but her loyalty to Jason is much much stronger.
To Dani, this game is all about trust.
She didn't trust Marc so she didn't feel the need to be trustworthy to him --in fact she felt the need to get rid of him ASAP.
She has trusted Lisa and Jason all along and I truly believe she will be happy if either of them get the half million. She feels she let Jason down though and if he doesn't win HOH I think that will eat at her for a long time.
So Yes Dani is very trustworthy to those who she feels are trustworthy back.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"Looking and listening to her on the feeds and on the TV show just about makes my skin crawl." Penpoint.

Looking at Danielle is a pleasure and often results in odd reactions to my lower region. That doesn't mean I want her to win, I just think she is attractive......hehe.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
HawaiianDew put so much gobbledegook in one post I can't muster up enough energy to respond logically. I dismiss the whole notion and and redirect all people to her pitiful preparation for last night's contest. She choked and expects Jason to clean it up. He will as usual.

Cindyluvsroddy

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
well, Dani made many alliances with people and looked them in their eyes and made agreements to them .... is that the MOST trustworthy HG? nope.

the question in this thread did not ask whether or not Dani could be trusted by anybody - it asked if she is the MOST Trustworthy ....

the answer has to be no.

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cindy. Since we cleaned up this thread and made the streets safe for Danielle critics to work and play, wanna take a break and have a cocktail? A Rum and Coke sounds mighty tasty right now.

Wendo

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
A multi-part post...Wheeeeeee!

------

Cindyluvsroddy said, "playing the BEST game includes if a player was nasty or calling other HG's names behind their backs ...that is PART of the game ... dont u see that? <snip above post>"

Yes, Cindy, I agree. However, if a jury member is going to hold a final two to their name calling, then they should be prepared to be called hypocrites if they participated in the same behavior. They have every right to hold it against the final two, every right. But, imo, it doesn't speak much about the majority of the jury that they're condemning behavior they actively exhibited countless times.

----

Ya know, I'm curious because my memory is lacking. What was the overwhelming thought on the board last year about Will? Did people want him to win? Did they think he deserved it based on his actions in the house and DR? Did they feel he would win because he was up against Nicole, who basically decompressed herself out of a half million dollars? Just asking because it's been awhile.

-----

Jaysgal, she knew the man for what, a few days? No offense, but I'd have a problem approaching someone I barely knew about washing their hands after using the loo. In fact, it would be tough for me to address it with a friend. Maybe for you it would be no problem, but for Dani it was. This sounds bad, but had it been me, I probably would've talked to someone else about it first too. (In real life, when I encounter these types of situations, I call my mom.)

In addition, no offense, this is the BB house not your neighborhood discussing your yard. In that house, saying something could be a bad tactical move. Could put you in jeapordy of being targeted. It's a completely different set of circumstances. You're applying a real life situation to a scenario that is not real life.

"And when Marcellas spoke of confronting Gerry about it, he was discouraged from doing so."

That's not entirely correct. He was going to be harsh with Gerry and Danielle encouraged not to be that way. She encouraged him to get up early one morning and talk to him in a friendly way. She did not say, Don't talk to Gerry about this.

-----

Jaysgal also said, "They are usually women, they are usually mothers, they usually start with being so nice to you and trying to befriend you."

Not going to touch this but to say, some of the worst gossips I've met are men.

-----

Frankly, I find it rather hard to believe that the posters condemning Dani about her gossiping have not done it themselves. Do you talk about celebrities? When you watch an awards show do you comment how ugly an outfit is? Comment on Brad Pitts too long hair? Comment about your neighboors trees or who they bring home at night? etc., etc. It's something that happens in real life, and it's going to happen in BB.

Cindyluvsroddy

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
sure, woodpeck! - i could use a stiff one .. lol

Hawaiiandew

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo,
You expressed my exact same feelings---but much better than I ever could have. Thank you!

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
None of my neighbors had a chance to win $500,000 for sitting in an isolated house with 11 other people. My neighbor next door walks around without a shirt with his white perch-belly on display for all to see. It is embarrassing but that is his choice. His lawn looks great.

Cindyluvsroddy

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
well, wendo - it was the amount of namecalling and insults that Dani has done on a daily basis ...

Dani is not the only one guilty of that ... i agree

Jason has played this game as well as Dani ... Lisa has played this game as well as Dani ... the 3 of them worked together to pick off people that were a threat to them one by one...

just because Dani is the most vocal about what she is doing does not make her the "Best" player the the jury should vote for...

a jury member is human - and humans will and can get very hurt when somebody is calling them names ...

in conclusion, a jury member has every reason to vote for who they want...

some will vote because they r "friends" with one of the remaining HG - is that a logical way to vote??

it is their vote - who am i to complain

all of this is part of the game and a truly "great" player - as they say - balances a fine line so they dont lose votes as they kick someone out each week -

Ryn

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
.....pokes his head in, looks around, sees an almost even tempered debate and heads back out..... :)

Maris

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I very clearly remember when Marcellas said to Danni he wanted to talk to Gerry. he said he wanted to let Gerry know because it was better for him to be evicted for a real reason than what everyone hated him for. He said that Gerry was going to get nominated without knowing why. First he was going to do it with everyone there, Danni said no. Then Marcellas said he would talk to him privately and Danni told him not to do it. she got Marcellas to agree not to talk to Gerry. I remember at the time thinking that Danni liked the fact that Gerry was an outcast and she did not want to change it.

Marcellas got up early on his own and told nobody he was going to do it. Gerry even asked Marcellas if he was acting on his own or at a suggestion and Marcellas said he was doing it on his own. Gerry thanked him. After he spoke with Gerry later in the day he told Danni what he had done. Danni had no idea he was going to do it.

Onlyhuman

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo asked:

Quote:

Ya know, I'm curious because my memory is lacking. What was the overwhelming thought on the board last year about Will? Did people want him to win? Did they think he deserved it based on his actions in the house and DR? Did they feel he would win because he was up against Nicole, who basically decompressed herself out of a half million dollars? Just asking because it's been awhile.



I can't speak for the entire board, but I think many people appreciated the humor and general air of unconcern that Will brought to the game. They admired the fact that he tolerated the drama of Hardy & Nicole without ever lashing out at them. The fact that his DR entries were pretty funny on the show also helped. Others, I believe, admired the fact that Will parlayed a strategy of overt weakness and evilness into half a million dollars.

*******

One of the problems with Danielle's strategy has been that she has turned this into a personal game with lots of talk about "good people" winning. She's not the only one who did it, but she definitely preached it along with the others.

If you are going to set up the game that way, you have to expect to be judged that way. Danielle made it personal with many of the HGs, talking about voting decisions based on the character of the HGs, such as Tonya being a bad mother and Roddy being evil.

With such an approach, how can she reasonably expect that the other HGs will not sit back and only think about the strategy and ignore the personal? They are human beings. It can't be done.

In the final act of this "morality play" the evicted HGs have to choose which "good person" they want to win. They don't have to think about their own actions, they just have to judge the others. That's what has happened all thoughout this game. It won't stop now.

Foodbunny

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What if the evicted houseguests logically decide that there are certain type of behaviors they do not want to reward, and thus vote based on who did the least of the offensive conduct?

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Then Jason wins and we all get a glass of milk and a cookie before bedtime.

Bmh

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Danielle is the most trustworthy I believe..if she gives you her WORD..and actually says it..then she is behind you 100%..She rescued Lisa and has stayed true to Jason

PS: This thread was so nice in the beginning..but then the Dani-hating really ruined it

Woodpecke®

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 04:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I do not see any Dani-hating in here. The topic was discussed without anyone showing HATE. No one said they hate her. The reasons are long and detailed as to why Danielle cannot be called trustworthy in this game. Alll were delivered without the word "hate". Just because the truth about someone hurts doean't mean we are picking on her or think she is horrible. Her words are documented and the responses are very clear. She is not the most trustworthy. Stop calling all who criticize a player on BB "haters".

Bmh

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 04:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
sorry Wood..shouldn't have used the word hating..but I do believe the majority of posters on this board..are more than happy to critcize anything they can about Dani..this was just another outlet