Unnecessary Roughness and the future of Big Brother
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive TWO: Unnecessary Roughness and the future of Big Brother
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Archive through September 22, 2002 25   09/22 03:10pm

Secretsmile

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 03:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Groucho...you are correct. I was thinking about within the game tho. Free Speech doesn't make slander and liable legal, but I'm no lawyer, but I believe there is a penality right?

Csnog

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 03:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I went back and read the first week in the house.

The HG's were in the house for 4 days before the live feeds came on.

It was an eye opener.

I was here from the begining but had forgotten a lot of what went on.

Josh was over the line and by day 12 everyone was believing his ideas about Gerrys speech even though right after the speech they all agreed that Gerry was speaking for himself. Josh was like a dog with a bone and would not let go. He called Gerry a Natzi because of this.

BB needs to step in with a penality if somone goes over the line and could hurt someones job. Something that most of the HG's didn't have.

Groucho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 03:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
For those who believe there should be some sort of penalty for excessive bashing of other HGs, let me ask you: What standard would you have BB apply, and what penalties would you like imposed? Further, what actions during this year's BB would have been over that line?

Watching2

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 03:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I remember last year, clearly not liking Will at first because he was so awful with his lying. But, by the end, because he always SAID he was lying, I started to enjoy him. I think he started to be a lot less of the super-clown which really annoyed me for a long time, even though he did continue it, but to a lesser degree. And yeah....wow I forgot about Nicole and those things she said to Will. YIKES! I think she should have been booted too. Remember how annoying it was with her pleading about speaking to her husband or leaving? Just leave then! Sheeesh. I was so sick of her!!! I wish it had been Monica & Will in the end and then you just might have seen Monica win over Will, even though they picked "who played the best game." With the two they had to chose from, how many of them could really want Nicole to win?

They DID give these people psycological testing. Marcellus has said over and over again they told him he wouldn't do well because he thought too much with his emotions.

We have to remember people, this is TV and it's for ratings. They WANT IT TO BE "SCANDALOUS!" If everyone was sweet and kind and never said a bad thing or never did a back-stabbing action, how many of YOU would keep watching it? Just a thought....

Csnog

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 05:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lie all you want about the game.

Lie about a person that could hurt their job and you eat PBJ for a week plus 1 point towards a penality nomination. Get 3 points and you take the place of a nominated person. HG's decide which one.

Calling a person a Natzi or a Pediphile is OVER the line and unnecessary and has NOTHING to do with the game.

Cmore

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 05:32 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bastable wrote: "Roddy and Marcellas tried, and failed, to convince everyone that the game was about being the nicest (read: most popular) person possible. The Dani haters on the board seem to have forgotten Will completely. It never was and never will be about morality. It's about doing what it takes to survive. "


Well I have never forgotten Will, in fact i rooted for him the whole time. Dani and Will are not even comparable. Will was always the court jester, never said over and over it was just about the money and was not nearly as mean spirited with very personal attacks as Dani.

What amazes me the most about the Dani lovers is they just can't seem to grasp the concept that it wasn't how she played the game that she is disliked, its about her constant need to attack and bash HG's even after they were long gone, which really has no point in the context of the game. She wasn't playing the game when she was bashing, she was showing the world who she really is.

Keiffer

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 05:47 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
WHo is it that decides where the "line" is that HG's should be aware of an not go over? To some people being called the devil a few thousand times is over the line. To some people being called a bad mother (Tonya) for various reasons is over the line. Who determines if it is truth or opnion being stated? Who determines that a person should not be allowed to talk negativly about another HG as a part of a strategy to get peoples attention on them instead of another person?

I am just saying that many people have different levels in which they think another has gone over the line. There can never be a fair way in which to have an arbitrary rule in which a person may loose a chance at 500k.

Secretsmile

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 06:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Keiffer, that's what I was trying to point out. I am not qualified to draw that line, yet we as a society seem to be uncomfortable at certain points.

Groucho

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 06:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Exactly, Keiffer.

I'll also point out that the lack of specific rules is one of the interesting things about the game. You can choose to lie, or deceive, or bash, or play however you want. It might cost you with the other HGs, either by getting you kicked out or by them voting against you in the final vote. It also might cost you in terms of how the public perceives you.

There are a million different ways to play the game. That's part of what makes it so interesting to me.

Gidget

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 06:41 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
How about we elect the mods of this board to censor BB? They seem to have a pretty good handle on what's too far.

Kat

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 06:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Marvellous scenario Gidget, we can watch HGs disappear and wonder if they were evicted after we havent seen them on the feeds for a while.

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 06:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with groucho about having so few rules makes BB what it is. It is left to tyhe HGs to decide what is "over the line" and what is not. And I think that distinction changes from one version to the next. (wel, in some respects)

Calling someone a nazi isn't going to gain you any points. Insulting someone's family members isn't going to be veiwed as reasonable play.

Sybilbb3oracle

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 07:00 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think we had an excellent and diverse group this year that made the game very interesting. True, there was no WILL whose sense of humor would have been good to have but I think Amy was not far removed from Will. This year DAni will pay the price for her bad mouthing others in the same way that Nicole did last year. This year, Dani's obsession with the money was similar to Nicole's mental instability. Lisa held to the Monica path this year, stayed low until she needed to win at the right time; but, by luck or perchance, Lisa made last HOH, when MOnica didn't. Last years Shrew Shannon was almost eclipsed by this years Shrew Chiara. This years Kent, Gerry, had about the same unappreciated sense of humor as did Kent. This years token Gay, Marcellas went about as far as last years gay in the game and both were booted out for becoming a threat. Both years token mature Mothers, Lori and Cheryl; were first to go. Young people don't want a mother figure around. Last years physical bully, Hardy, can be equated with this years mental Bully Roddy. Needless to say this years Josh was just a slightly turned up Mike Bugger. Eric's jock guy replaced Justin's brutish hunk. So, we had very similar characters both years except for Jason, who I just don't know how to match with anyone last year.

Niceguy

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:25 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Groucho, I'll come back to you.

Secretsmile, What555 & Bluemomba we share some common ground on this issue.

A better class of people. That was pretty absurd to wish for.

There is a line else all is chaos. I don't think we as viewers want just chaos.

I agree that type of verbal emotional violence shouldn't be rewarded. Deception and duplicity is one thing, bullying and character assassination is below the belt, over the line.

I'm picking on the worst examples of it not the random or occassional violator.

It doesn't take a behavioral analyst to see a pattern emerge in a HG's tactics.

Groucho, if they deducted from the stipend or even the 2nd place winnings that would motivate the HG's to cut out the over the line business.

IMO.

Niceguy

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:28 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe I missed something. Did Mike B. and Autumn...boink?

Silversamba

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think BB should have a list of types of comments that "go over the line" and issue warnings and such if they go over them. I think the basic line should be comments and actions which could:

1. Put another hg in physical danger(or perceived danger)-think Justin and the knife

2. Potentially cause serious problems for a hg outside the house-think Lisa and her comments about Gerry

HGs should not feel they have carte blanche to say and do anything at all against fellow hgs.

Wendo

Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 11:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Bluemomba said, "Last years Nicole and this years' Danielle and Marc, engaged in violent verbal abuse, made worse because most of it was done behind the victim's backs with no way to defend themselves until they saw the tapes."

Ok, I have a point of disagreement. Both Nicole and Mar I agree engaged in "violent" verbal abuse. Both wished harm to other HG's (Nicole to Will, Mar to Gerry.) However, Danielle has never wished harm or injury to another HG. Never.

-----

Cmore said, "What amazes me the most about the Dani lovers is they just can't seem to grasp the concept that it wasn't how she played the game that she is disliked, its about her constant need to attack and bash HG's even after they were long gone, which really has no point in the context of the game."

Cmore, no offense, but perhaps in the future you could word your posts so that they don't condescend Dani fans. You imply that Dani fans are stupid and their reasoning flawed, because you're so "amazed" that we don't agree with your opinion. It's belittling and rude. Disagree with our opinions, fine. But I would ask that you leave the condescension at the door.

-----

As to a "line" in BB. IMO, it's up to the HG's in the game to determine what and where the line is. They are in a mini-society and it's up to them to say what is and what isn't over the line. When they didn't call Josh on his "Nazi" calling of Gerry, the set a line that was way out there. When they didn't call Amy and Mar on their trash talking, they set another line way out there. When they didn't reign in Dani's mocking, the set a line way out there. How did they set said lines? By laughing, participating, and even trash talking themselves. By not addressing the behavior, they allowed it and made it acceptable. Frankly, their actions determined the "laws" of the house.

Niceguy

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 08:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, its called BIG BROTHER for a reason.

You've have twelve distinct personalities with varying degrees of motivation to win the prize. A prize they've been told that can be gotten by deceit and betrayal. Saying that those twelve can create a mini-society founded on lies and betrayal is tenuous logic at best. Its a recipe for chaos and possible disaster.

Big Brother sets the tone and the pace and it(he?)also has to reign it in and delineate boundaries as to what is acceptable.

One person has died in connection with the game in Europe. I don't think we want that here.

It shouldn't be up to the HG's where and what the line is. They're just trying to win.

Bigsister

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:04 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have an idea that might just help a little to keep down the ugliness. Give the viewing audience a voice in determining the outcome of the game.

At present, the viewers' vote counts only if there is a tie after the evicted houseguests vote. Nest year why not give the viewers one vote, period? Instead of 10 votes, there would be 11. This is just one suggestion; there are several ways to do it that would not drastically change the nature of the game. If the houseguests know from the start that they will be watched by the voters at all times, they might just conduct themselves a little better.

Silversamba

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:14 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I like the idea of the public getting an 11th vote(it lets the other hgs mostly determine who wins but keeps the hgs mindful that the public *does* have a voice)

I don't mind the hgs mainly deciding where lines are. However, there should be a few exceptions where BB comes in and reigns things in. This is especially important since apparently in their contract, it states that they can't sue each other.

Gidget

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lawsuits are the least of their worries. I don't get mad I get even if someone ticks me off enough.

I LOVE Big Sister's idea of the 11th vote and I love the idea of an audience contest to dream up comps.

AS need to get his head out of his behind and see the value of the fans.

Maris

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
they will just factor in the 11th vote and make sure they have a cushion of two votes. I think the public should get the power of veto but on a "expect the unexpected basis" . Now that would affect how the game is played.

Niceguy

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
That's pretty sharp Maris. Especially on a returnee vote.