Can you win this game without lying?
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive THREE :
Can you win this game without lying?
Bb3friend | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:37 pm     I don't think so. Any opinions? |
What555456 | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:38 pm     No. |
Spotbiter | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:41 pm     No. And since you have to lie, personally I believe it is better to knowingly lie with no self-delusion. I've only seen two players do that: Will and Danielle. Edited to add: Perhaps Eddie didn't lie. But I think we can all agree...that was a different game. |
Betty | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:45 pm     No. |
Earthmother | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:46 pm     Yes it was a different game...we voted not the other hgs. This makes a huge difference. In bb1 they didn't have to play each other, they only had to play the audience..so the more honest you were the better we liked you and alliences were not necessary. With the game played as it is now there is no way you can play it with total honesty unless you want to be a viewer and not a contestant... |
Kae | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:53 pm     Nope. The current game requires some form of misrepresentation. |
Twiggyish | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 12:54 pm     Yes, true Earth. |
Whit4you | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:01 pm     Well Jason could have, if he'd held onto that key.... (and that last friggen HOH contest was not geered to LIsa, sheesh half the answers WERE Lisa!) |
Justshirley | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:09 pm     Whit, 3 answers were Lisa, 3 were Dani and 3 were Jason. Pretty even, I'd say. Oh, and I agree that this game cannot be won without lying. |
Bmh | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:09 pm     No way in hel..even Roddy that claims he never lied..did..just to hang by a thread I personally believe it is impossible |
Twiggyish | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:15 pm     It could also be a matter of perception. Perhaps, Roddy didn't see himself as lying. To each person, he told his own truth. |
Jagger | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:17 pm     With the hgs doing the voting there is no way not to lie, everyone has to do it, or you would not last in the game. If they went back to the way they did it in bb1 yes you could play and honest game, too bad for Jason this wasn't bb1, I think he would still be in there. |
Jaysgal | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 01:21 pm     Yes, very much so. You can win it without lying. You can very much be like a lawyer and that's not lying, technically speaking. Roddy came closest to demonstrating that. Roddy didn't win the game, but that does not mean that you cannot win without lying. For if it were so, then we would have to infer the same about Josh who lied repeatedly and played a game not too far from Danielle's, yet he did not win. If it was lies that made people get very far in the game, then Chiara would still be there. If it were lies that got one very far, then Eric would still be there. It's not lying that makes people win. If it was based on lies alone, Danielle would not be where she is. The primary trick is interactions with people: body language, talking habits, how much one pretends to be caring, etc. And as said by Curlq(?), it is also the type of audience that BB chooses. If people chose a collection of honest and not very wild people, the outcome would be different; the game would be played differently. Lastly, many of those who voted in favour of Nicole last year felt that she was honest to them. This year, I am sure many would feel the same about Lisa, that she was honest to them. Also Will, whilst playing the game with dishonesty, told the truth to the houseguests and to their faces that he had every intent to lie. Of course he planted the seed of doubt in them, so that they felt the truth he had told was in of itself lies. |
Eden | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:03 am     No, you can't get to the final two without lying, bald faced or by implied intention. Jays, BB doesn't choose their audience, the audience chooses BB. They do choose the players, however. I am not a "wild or dishonest" person, yet, I enjoyed BB3 immensely. I wouldn't watch BB1 again if they paid me. How does that play into your surmised scenario, Jay? I guess it's not so easy being a show producer afterall. Maybe people who want a fault free BB should lobby the "family channel" to adopt a version! |
Fabnsab | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 05:12 am     I am thinking about this and I think it could be done, depending on the other houseguests and where their priorities lie as far as evictions. You could be in there with a group of people who just disregard you as a weak one and let you slip through the cracks, without ever having to lie. I don't know. What has Lisa lied about? I can't think of something. She always seemed to just be silent when a lie was called for. I truly don't remember. |
Lancecrossfire | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:01 am     Yes you can!! Jason would have won the game if he had gotten the final HOH, and to my best recolection, he didn't lie to anyone. He may not have said much, but what he said was true. |
Mlt | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 11:53 am     Lancecrossfire, the only incident that I can think of where Jason lied was when he told Roddy that he was planning to vote to evict Lisa. And, Fabnsab, Lisa lied when she told Kiki that last week was last week. And Roddie lied when he told Jason that he didn't have any deals in the house when he had an alliance with Marc. Other than those, I can't honestly think of any lies either of those three told. However, I might well be wrong. If I am, please someone correct me <g>. |
Guiltyviewer | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:16 pm     I guess in theory it is 'possible' but very unlikely, just as you could play a game of poker without bluffing and win depending on the hand you're dealt. But in the GAME of BB, all hgs are basically dealt the same hand and it's up to them to make the most of it by whatever means they can manage...to me, the lying and deceptions that went on in the game are all acceptable because it is part of strategizing. I don't see 12 'friends'---they haven't all joined the same club---they're competitors from the second they cross the threshold, and any who forget that are likely to be sent packing (with surprised looks and hurt feelings no doubt for being 'lied' to!)Don't really 'get' how one person's lie is seen as okay and another's is not....they've all lied, and to clarify, I consider misrepresenting, deceiving, playing semantics, etc is all lying...I just don't fault a hg for it because this game is 24/7. They are playing all the time, so all lies are 'allowed' in MY Rules of the Game. IMHO |
Screeminmeemie | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:40 pm     You don't necessarily have to lie, but you must be discreet enough to know when to keep your mouth shut, and as Lisa did, listen and observe a great deal. She had a handle on each personality, unlike Amy, who never really listened to people when they were talking. I feel that is the reason Lisa won the last HOH comp. |
Kathyb | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:09 pm     But Jason would probably not have gotten as far as he did without his alliance with Dani, and wasn't that a lie of sorts? I wonder what he'd have said if he had been in the pool/boat competition with Lisa at the end and she had asked him the same question she asked Dani. Would he have lied? Wouldn't it be fun to know?! |
Ministryoftruth | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:12 pm     It depends on what your definition of "is" is. |
Screeminmeemie | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:40 pm     Ministry - hee hee hee hee hee - good one! |
Mlt | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:02 pm     Ministryoftruth, ROFL. My mother uses that comment all the time <g>. |
Wcv63 | Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:05 pm     I would say no. |
Lisad | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 09:59 pm     NO! Lisa needs to thank Dani's lies for getting her where she was. |
Tobor7 | Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 10:15 pm     Yes you can. You just have to have the Character to say the truth and accept what comes from it. If Jason did lie, he didn't have to. He could have said "I'm not going to answer that." Like he did many times. When it was down to the final 3 and IF Jason asked Lisa if she was going to vote him out, she could tell the truth. "Yes." That would show character to me. Answering or not answering would not change the outcome. It just shows if you can stand the heat. That's why I think next year the evicted HG should stay in the house for 2 days after eviction. Make the people who voted you out have to face up to it for 2 days. That would be good, honest confrontation to me. Standard disclaimers, JMO, etc. |
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