Lisa's strategy
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive TWO: Lisa's strategy

Crazydog

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
There has been some talk about how Lisa doesn't really deserve to win because she didn't really do anything in the game. I disagree.

Early on, Lisa's strategy was to get into a strong alliance. That was working, until Gerry became HoH and derailed everything. Lisa changed alliances and joined up with Danielle, who took her into her alliance. From that point on, Lisa largely laid low and observed.

The under the radar strategy sure seems to have worked for her. I don't understand why people sometimes think it is the greatest strategy in the world (Africa's Ethan) but despise it on other occasions (Australia's Tina, Marquesas' Vecepia). I think BB is a different game from Survivor. BB is a lot more psychologically-oriented and involves getting to know the people you are with. Lisa's keen observations led to her great success at the last part of the final HoH. Most importantly, I think she is very much aware of how important the perceptions of the evicted houseguests are. Danielle is self-destructing right now but Lisa has remained calm cool and collected.

Lisa's success in the game is not just luck, as Gerry said. Luck works both ways. She may have been lucky to join up with the sixpack in the first place but she was unlucky to be chosen as the target when that alliance was broken. Joining up with Danielle was not luck. Danielle knew she wanted an additional member to counteract Roddy and Chiara. Lisa made the decision to change alliances. To me that was not luck but a good decision.

I think Lisa has had great success in the game and I think she deserves to be the winner.

Watching2

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:44 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Great post Crazydog! I agree!!

Cinnamongirl

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree too!

Plus her not voting Eric back in was part of her success/strategy

Wendo

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I dunno. According to her last night it was all "in the cards" so...no strategy needed. LOL!

Wendo

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"Joining up with Danielle was not luck. Danielle knew she wanted an additional member to counteract Roddy and Chiara. Lisa made the decision to change alliances."

Actually, at that time, Marcellas was Jason and Dani's third. But they started having doubts about him. They then focused on Lisa. (Remember the hammock conversation where both said Lisa was "good people".)

Lisa may have wanted to change alliances, but it was Dani who brought her in.

I'm not saying Lisa didn't make good moves though. But, she was given opportunities and she chose to take them.

Cindyluvsroddy

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa Proved to me that she was really calculating and playing the game when she did not vote Eric back into the house ...

Toolhound

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Lisa had the best strategy of them all. Laying low and listening. Why be a big mouth and try to run the game like Danni? Lisa used the right strategy and her determination in the rubber boat competition was great. Then she followed it all up with showing how important it was to shut up and listen to other HGs. By listening she knew what people thought about her and other HGs and that is what got her where she is today.

Now being up against Danni for the $500,000.00 she has not made to many enemies and Danni has many.

Letmeinthere

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa's strategy was to win the game but keep her eyes open and her mouth closed. It was Dani's suggestion she do this and that is exactly what she did. Sorry to see that Dani didn't follow her own advice. I could see Dani winning this if she had.

Course, its not over till its over...

Johnnydollar

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa's strategy, as such, was flawed. Even though she made it into the finals, she was not in control. What if D & J had decided to take Amy? Or Macellus? What could L do about it? Nothing. D & J, on the other hand, were in control. THEY decided who to take to the final three. They were active, Lisa was passive. As it turned out Lisa happened to be their pick, and she deserves some credit for playing in a manner that led them to pick her. But her fate was really in others' hands, and to that extent there was an element of chance or luck in her making it to the end. That's why, ultimately, even if Lisa wins, she did not play the game as well.

Monalisa

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:54 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazydog posts: Early on, Lisa's strategy was to get into a strong alliance. That was working, until Gerry became HoH and derailed everything. Lisa changed alliances and joined up with Danielle, who took her into her alliance. From that point on, Lisa largely laid low and observed.


She said she felt forced into the first alliance, so no strategy there. Not much strategy is needed to decide to switch alliances, especially since the first one was pretty much gone. As for joining up with Dani, I don't think she strategically placed herself in that alliance, I think it was more that Dani sought her.

Bobodaclown

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The title of this thread is an oxymoron, but she must have done something right, lol!

What555456

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:57 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't see Lisa as having had any strategy at all until Amy left. To me, she did not purposely stay below the radar. I think for the most part she didn't really understand what was happening around her, she felt buffeted by events and had no idea what to do with these people she was thrown in with.

Her personality is such that she stays quiet. So, as she watched the storms rage around her, she stayed quiet not as a strategy, but just as her normal reaction to the world.

To me she made it to the final three because others got themselves eliminated. Only then did she develop a strategy which was nothing more than to win the final HOH.

Toolhound

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:15 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
What would have been diferent if things had changed awhile back? Lets say when Roddy was up if they had voted out Amy or when Marc was up they would have voted out Amy. Either way it went Lisa had a deal with Marc if he stayed or Roddy would have thought she was still in with him if he had stayed. Either one would have taken her to the final 3 with them. That is what I call a GREAT strategy and she did not get in that position by not paying attention and playing the game.

Tresbien

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I've been looking for a transcript of the chat in which Lisa's mom and her mom's friend participated but can't find it. I seem to recall that her mother said Lisa normally is an assertive person. That led me to believe that the quiet, observant Lisa we've seen is part of her strategy. As of today it's at least a $50K strategy so I applaud her for that. I'd appreciate it if anyone can confirm that chat information. Thank you.

Wendo

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Toolhound said, "Either one would have taken her to the final 3 with them. That is what I call a GREAT strategy and she did not get in that position by not paying attention and playing the game."

And, by the same token, this is what Dani did by ensuring herself the final two with either Jason or Lisa. GREAT STRATEGY.

Draheid

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tresbien: Look in here: TV ClubHouse: TVCH Exclusives: Big Brother Chat Transcripts (from our chat rooms): September 9, 2002 - Live Chat with Lisa's mom

Costacat

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:42 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Johnny, Lisa's strategy would have worked except that Jason & Danielle were already in an alliance (unbeknownst to her). Had that original alliance not been so strong, it would've been a great alliance. So I disagree that her strategy was "flawed." I think her strategy worked perfectly (she's most likely gonna win, after all).

Tresbien

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks very much, Draheid. Their descriptions of Lisa as aggressive in real life and someone who would not be a puppet were interesting to me and got me to look more closely at Lisa and her game strategy. She always struck me as something of an independent, one who would follow her own conscience. I truly believe her fellow HGs seriously underestimated both her skill (memory) and determination.

Johnnydollar

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
"Lisa's strategy would have worked except that Jason & Danielle were already in an alliance (unbeknownst to her)."

Unknown to her? She claims she was onto it from week three. <g>

Crazydog

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:13 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wendo, I don't disagree that it was a good move for Danielle to ensure that she was getting taken to the finals by either Jason or Lisa. I may not agree with the method in which she went about it, but I recognize it was a good move.

But I was never saying that Lisa's strategy was better than Danielle's, I was simply saying that Lisa's strategy worked for her. Some people may feel that everything fell into her lap, but I disagree. Danielle may have approached Lisa first about it, but Danielle had her motives because she wanted to further diminish the power of Roddy and Chiara. Lisa easily could have remained with Roddy and Chiara but she chose to ally with what she felt was a better alliance. It was a choice she made that worked out better.

I also think Lisa's strategy would have been to ally with Marc in the final four. She said in the DR after Marc's eviction that her strategy went out the window. Things were really out of her control at that point with regard to Marc's eviction and Jason's ouster of Amy, but I don't think she can be faulted for trying to ride out the storm. Overall I think she deserves to be where she is.

Wendo

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:20 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazydog said, "But I was never saying that Lisa's strategy was better than Danielle's, I was simply saying that Lisa's strategy worked for her. "

Oh, I know you weren't. And I got what you were saying too. :)

Lucymac

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Crazydog I agree that Lisa absolutely deserves to be where she is. There are different types of strategy. Some prefer Danielle's style and some prefer Lisa's style. Just because it isn't the way you would play the game, doesn't make it wrong. I think all along, Lisa was remembering she also had to play to the evicted HG's to get their final vote. This is where I think Dani's strategy failed. She could have done damage control in the DR rather than backstabbing the evicted HG's and she would probably be looking at 500G's. Maybe Lisa rode the coattails of others, but she picked the right coattails and didn't make so many enemies along the way.

Tresbien thanks for bringing up that discussion in the chat. I had forgotten about that. I think Lisa has been playing this game well for a long time, but lulled everyone into a false sense of security thinking she wouldn't be a threat. Kudos to her!

Mlt

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree that Lisa had a great strategy. A lot of people seem to think that she just road Dani's coattails. Fine. But can you think of any coattails that it was more strategic to ride?

And she realized what Dani wanted - unquestioning loyalty. That's what got Marc in trouble - he didn't give unquestioning loyalty. Lisa saw all that and gave what Dani was asking for.

And she never questioned Dani about what was supposed to happen once they got to the final three until after she was in the final three. Had she mentioned it before Amy was voted out, she'd have been evicted. Marc, when he was nominated instead of Lisa, went to Dani and Jason and demanded to know why. Lisa didn't. She kept her mouth shut and a smile on her face. So neither Dani or Jason knew that she was questioning them.

I think both Dani and Jason were blown away when they finally saw the real Lisa during the final HOH competition. You have Jason talking about how much she was psyching (sp?)them out in the pool competition. Dani looked shocked when Lisa questioned her about a possible alliance between her and Jason and then, in the DR, admitted how smart Lisa is.

No, I think Lisa learned the keep your mouth closed and your eyes open leason very well. And, as a result of this strategy, she kept her enemies to a minimum - some of whom will probably continue to think she's just 'lucky.' But she'll be a half million dollars 'lucky' and I could certainly handle that.

Starz

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Most of the auctions I win at eBay are done by what I've called the "slam dunk" method. It requires great patience because you have to lay low, watch carefully and get in at the very last seconds to slam dunk the item. Going in too early just creates a bidding war and I end up paying too much.

I think Lisa just "slam dunked" this game at the only moment she could do it successfully without it costing her jury votes. I say good for her! Let Dani take the hits. In her position I would have done the same.

Wrat1010

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:27 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
The "be in the final 2 with Danielle" strategy will be admired and respected by many members of the jury, since at various times several of them contemplated, or were even invited, into that position.... Jason, Marcellas, Gerry, even Roddy.

Toolhound

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:40 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Starz, I agree as an eBay buyer myself you have to know when to go for it or it will cost you. I use a service so I don't even have to be there to bid when the auction is ending. A lot of people would say that I am not playing the game by using a service to bid for me but I usualy win!!!

Lisad

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 06:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa had a strategy? Sounded like Dani informed her what was going on, liked her, and invited her into THE alliance of the house. She's lucky Dani took a linking to her.

Ocean_Islands

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 06:49 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think the pool scenario is one of the few things Lisa did strategy-wise. The other was refuse Eric's return and shut out Chiara. But those weren't much.

She hardly did all the work that Danielle did.

Jason is similar to Lisa, but he still did more than Lisa.

She wouldn't be there at all if Danielle and Jason hadn't gotten out Amy; Lisa had nothing to do with that.

In any case, it's not really a criteria for which to judge the winner. There is no formula to win over the jury at this point.

Cindyluvsroddy

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 06:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa sure did have a strategy!!

i was convinced the moment that she voted Amy instead of Eric to come back in the house ....

I guess we will find out wednesday night to see which woman had the best strategy - the most jury votes :)

Eden

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with What555 and Ocean. I don't see that Lisa had much of a personal strategy other than to do whatever Danielle told her to do. Does doing what you're told really qualify as strategy? I don't think so.

The only time Lisa ATTEMPTED to do anything strategic was her failed potential alliance with Marcellas. If Lisa had been playing strategically and not just riding the wind, SHE would have been the one to convince Marcellas to use the GPOV no matter what (instead of Danielle convincing him to do otherwise). Then she should have cemented her relationship with Danielle and Jason so as to be assured she would not be evicted if she were nominated in Marcellas' place. She did none of those things. She just sat back, watched the plan blow up and them, for what reason I can't fathom, went ahead and voted out Amy anyway! LOL Yeah, Lisa was REALLY aware of what was going on and on top of her game the whole time.

Niceguy

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:48 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lisa played a game similar to Monica's last year. Very subtle, almost to the point of somnambulism. It worked this time because Lisa never blew up and won challenges she absolutely needed to win. She was on the block and HoH and survived both exceedingly well.

Grace under pressure.