Archive through September 22, 2002
TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive FOUR:
Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game.:
Archive through September 22, 2002
Tobor7 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:29 am     But do you know people LIKE them? People that have similar character traits? |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:59 am     The mistake you're making Tobor is that you're trying to pigieonhole these people and attempt to fit them very neatly into some kind of preordained "type." Since every person is unique and a large part of what molds character and personality is life experiences, it is rare to come across two people that are "alike" in anything more than a superficial way. I certainly hope you're not using one aspect of peoples' personalities to define them for the rest of their days. Just isn't feasible. All that really does is give a superficial description that tells you nothing at all about "true character." And we are talking about "true character." Right? Now to get your post about my comparison of the movie Donnie Brasco to some similarities that I noted. Your post sounds a little like a more passionate version of the "you're no Kennedy" speech. No the houseguests aren't FBI undercover agents. Nor are they tennis players, linebackers, shipwrecked children on a deserted island, or any of the other ANALOGIES utilized in this thread to describe certain similarities. If you'd bothered to read my post you'd have seen that. |
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:40 am     Actually they are tennis players and linebackers in the respect they are game players. Most all folks have pigieonholed most every HG. Roddy, Marc and Dani especially. I have seen so many comments on all of thsee folks about how they are as people. Many of the comments were make by the folks posting here. Many more by folks not posting here. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:46 am     It might be said that FBI agents have to play games too...especially when undercover. Of course the stakes are higher but then I was just using the subterfuge and stress aspects involved as an analogy. People are more complex than one or two aspects of their character. Especially if the trait is insignificant to the character or personality of the person as whole. i.e. The reverend's wife is a gossip. She is also the first to go to the aid of those in need. She has 4 children of her own and is an attentive and loving mother. She holds down a part time job and volunteers at the local hospice. To just say that she is a gossip does her a disservice and doesn't truly define who she really is. |
Tobor7 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:26 pm     You can play anything with or without honor. You can play poker and deceive--- you can look someone in the eye and say you have a "full house" when you don't, but to say it along with "My word is gold" or "My word is my bond" or "I swear on my dead mother's grave" only to laugh later and call it a game when it is clear you lied... as if calling it a game gives you a free ride to say or do anything. It does not. You didn't break any rules of the game, but it does not make it right. And when someone walks away from the table and you bad mouth them on top of everything else... Where is the honor in that? I do not see it. |
Tobor7 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:55 pm     Wcv--- I don't have to define them. They are defining themselves. By going on the show itself was the first step. Of course people are more than one thing, but it usually IS ONE THING in life that defines you. Not to be extreme, but I'm sure OJ did many good things in his life, but he is defined by his trial. Condit will always be defined by his affair. Is he a lot of other things? Sure. But he made a decision and for whatever reasons each decision created another opportunity to make another wrong one. He defined himself by having the affair. Clinton did many good things in his life I am sure, but his actions with Lewinski defined him. His bad judgment in how he handled it reflected his character. No matter what you think of Linda Tripp, would you hire her to work for you?? The 15 minutes of fame that everyone seems to think they now deserve may well actually define them -- it may be a bad person who did one great thing, or a good person who did one bad thing. No matter what else these people are-- they have defined themselves by how they have acted in front of tens of millions of viewers. They will never be able to take it back. They will never be able to edit the record. Maybe now, maybe years down the road they will wish they did it differently. You write a paper in Law School. 25 years later you are defending it in front of a Senate confirm committee. People do things in life that follow them forever. This show will follow them forever. Long after the money is gone. Too bad they didn't understand that. Maybe they would have had more honor. But I guess that is a reflection of character. The bad-mouthing is a reflection of character and has nothing to do with the show. It isn't even good strategy, so how do you explain it? They just can't help themselves. The decision of going on the show was not a game. The show is not marketed as a game. THEY (the HG's) CALL it a game, but it is a REALITY show. Not a sporting event, not a game show, not a comedy and not a documentary. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:22 pm     It is a contest though. A contest with a cash prize. And at the risk of repeating myself, in a totally artificial environment with no outlet for expression. You can't write, sing, read, or paint. The things one would normally turn to for comfort and solace to chase away the negativity are absent. Once again...this is not their true character. It may be considered a temporary lapse in judgment brought on by confining and stressful circumstances but I don't consider the Big Brother game to be a beacon of enlightenment concerning human character. |
Lancecrossfire | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:31 pm     If that is true, than what makes it ok to say one player is doing better than another, or one player is a "bad person" when another is a good person"? I ask this to all the folks that have HGs they cheer for, and ones they geer for. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:49 pm     It's a matter of personal preference for me I guess. Those whom I identify with in some way or whom I feel a protective sort of maternal bond for are my favorites. Those that I jeered for...well same thing. I identified with things about them that turned me off. In one case in particular a player's game actions reminded me of some very unpleasant life experiences. As for gameplay. Well that speaks for itself. How can you not say that some are playing a better game? I would never make a judgement call about someone in this contest being a "bad person." I couldn't. How in the world would I know one way or the other? This wonderland is being viewed through a prism and creating a skewed image of reality. It's fantasy and if I happen to see the mad hatter having tea by the pool I wouldn't blink twice. |
Lisad | Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:54 pm     Allietex - Your post deserves it's own thread. Good job. |
Tobor7 | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:20 am     Wcv63-- You said: "Those whom I identify with in some way..." and "I identified with things about them that turned me off. In one case in particular a player's game actions reminded me of some very unpleasant life experiences." I'm sorry that such bad memories were brought back. Perhaps that is part of what I am saying... about adding your life experience to what you observe. You see certain actions and words and they fit a pattern that you have come to recognize. (And dislike or like as the case may be.) To have such emotional reactions, you must know the traits well. And in knowing these traits as you do, is it possible for someone to be faking it-- yet be so good at it? ------ (start new idea) ----------- The scary thing about some of these observations is when you see something that one of the HGs do or say--- and see bad reactions to it by others... and then... ...then realize that you do some of those things from time to time and have never noticed the bad reactions... ...makes you wonder if you didn't notice the reactions... or the reactions you are seeing are false. I'm still thinking about this one... |
Spunky | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:51 am     Tobor, you rock!!! |
Tobor7 | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:19 pm     Huh... 7 hours after my last comment and only one response. I guess there is more thinging on this than mine. JMHO, MHO, etc, etc, etc... |
Wcv63 | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:50 pm     Tobor, I read your post around 8am this morning....I know what you're saying but since I never do anything that makes people react badly I don't have any frame of reference. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! |
Tobor7 | Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:19 pm     Still thinking... |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:27 am     So....... Who showed the best CHARACTER in tonight's demonstration? |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 05:12 am     I'll slip this in while everyone is asleep. It is not a game. There are feelings and lives in the mix. 2 people are playing for the cash, but the rest are playing for something else. So I say quietly in the dark of night... Sssssssshsh... game? NOT A GAME! JMHO, etc. |
Wcv63 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 07:08 am     Okay..that's what you were talking about when you said you do some things that draw bad reactions from others. Very sly. |
Romans8_1 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 08:04 am     I didn't know where to post this observation, so I chose here ... Compared to serveral posters on this board, the HG look like saints. Even Marcellas. I can't believe some of the hatred/bitterness I read in so many messages across the treads. There are several posters that have a lot of hatred built up inside themselves. I'm not naming names, but you can tell them by their posts. As I look around this board, and I realize that this is a reflection of society, it doesn't really make me feel good. But this is something that I already know. This message may get deleted, I'm not posting this with malace or hatred. I just want to say, can't we all just calm down a little and remember that these are people too with flaws, just like us. Even though I wasn't rooting for Roddy, I never hated him. I loved him as a person, but just disliked somethings he did. Same goes for several other hg. I think some of us have a hard time realizing that these people cannot live up to our expectations. They are not acting out a script. This is real life (to a certain extent) and they are doing the best of their ability. Do we vilify Tiger Woods because he can't play basketball like Micheal Jordan? Do we vilify Micheal Jordan cause he can't play golf like Tiger Woods? People have different limitations. So Jason got out too soon. So what? Do we vilify him for it? Come on. The best person will win the game and ALL the others deserve a round of applause for trying. I hope somebody can understand what I'm trying to say, but I'll probably get bashed for pointing out the bashing, which will just re-enforce what I'm saying about the bashing. |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:39 pm     Dani would have shown great character if she rejected Lisa's offer by telling the truth. "Sorry Lisa, but you are too late. I already have a deal with Jason. If I stab him in the back how would you be able to trust me? Come up with a better offer that will not comprimise my word. Let's call Jason out here and see what he thinks..." Now that I could have clapped for. And been just as dramatic. |
Woodpecke® | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:42 pm     She could show character right now by telling Lisa the entire truth about her alliance with Jason. She won't. |
Tobor7 | Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:50 pm     So many missed opportunities to do the right thing. |
Tobor7 | Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 09:27 pm     Now, if Dani wins and gives Jason 50K, that would be character! |
Wendo | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 02:25 am     Woodpecke® said, "She could show character right now by telling Lisa the entire truth about her alliance with Jason." Wood, well, she did so tonight. It wouldn't have been prudent before since the game was still going on. |
Tobor7 | Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 04:52 am     Yup, she told her. |
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