Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game.
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: Archive FOUR: Game. Not a Game... Game? Not a Game.
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Archive through September 17, 2002 25   09/17 06:22am
Archive through September 18, 2002 25   09/18 04:22am
Archive through September 22, 2002 25   09/22 04:52am
Archive through September 24, 2002 25   09/24 02:25am

Cmore

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Tobor7, the conclusions you came to about Roddy from inside the house are very interesting. I will try to explain why I came away with a different view as best as I can.

Tobor7 wrote: "I suppose I know a lot of people just like him. Right down to his reaction about being bored with the constant movie game talk."

I do believe that Roddy is a very intelligent person and those around him in the house were somewhat below his intelligence level. It is somewhat common for an intelligent person to become "bored" if those around him are not conversing on his/her level of thought provoking conversation.

Tobor7 wrote: " I felt like I knew him more than any of the others because he put a lot more out there to know."

This is where I do disagree. I think everything Roddy put out there was very carefully thought out and even gaurded to shelter the real Roddy from the world.

Tobor7 wrote: "Why didn't he just lie to Amy. That's all she needed to hear and she would have used the POV to save him? If he was so bad, why didn't he just lie to her then at such an important time in the game."

Good question and I do believe he should have lied to Amy in that situation to further himself in the house. I even believe he wanted to, but he let his concern about what people would think of him cloud his judgement.

I think he really tried to convince people that he was really the guy he was acting to be in the house, but a couple of points made me disbelieve him.

I don't believe that he has never told a lie, because in real life almost everyone has at some point and time, so why was it so important to Roddy to portray that he was always on the "up and up"? In my mind a small lie here and there in the context of the game would have given him more of a human touch, rather than a robotic one.

On a couple of occasions he became a very angry person, once with Josh I believe and once with Amy. Anger is the hardest of all emotions to control, so these may have been the only events where the real Roddy came through, although once he regained his composure he quickly went to them and said all is forgiven.

I really don't believe that he forgave or forgot so quickly and I believe in reality he is quite capable of carrying a grudge.

Another clue, as long as Roddy was in the house it seemed that he and Chi had this "thing", but as soon as he left he really sort of blew that off, again another contradiction of the "in the house Roddy"


I did not dislike Roddy, but I think if he would have shwon the audience that he was a little more human and a little less perfect, he would have went much farther in the game than he did. I think he really overplayed his role in the house.

I think how the world viewed Roddy was much more important to him than money or the game. Money comes and goes, but persona can stick with you for life.

Sbw

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:24 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
For the football analogy... when they do too much trash talking at an inappropriate time, they are penalized. :)

Niceguy

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv, you are creative in your arguments, I will say that.

Lancecrossfire

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:58 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes, they are actually.

Tobor7

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 01:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Cmore--

Interesting take on why Roddy didn't lie to Amy. I didn't really consider that.

The Chiara thing--
I think he was interested the first day or so, but she jumped on too fast. It does take some time to get to know someone, and by the time he figured out that she wasn't for him he was stuck with her. (In the real world, she would have been phased right out.) But in the house what could he do? For me, I was able to tell right away when he stopped being into her. From there it was just damage control-- trying to recover from a mistake.

I could see him cringe when she was telling her sex stories. I felt his pain when she flirted in front of him. She would not have lasted 30 seconds with that behavior in front of me.

I am surprised that he did not forbid her from nominating him. She would have backed down I think. He accepted it too easily.

One of the most interesting Roddy moments was when he was (what I would consider) "dropping" her. That long talk in the bedroom with them sitting on separate beds.
I called my wife in and told her she had to watch it-- he was dropping her on national TV! I don't think I was ever very good about dropping anyone in my life. I always found it hard. In fact, one of the hardest things in the world to do-- try to get out when you are the only one who is unhappy.
It was interesting to finally watch someone else try to do it. I thought everything he said was good stuff. Valid arguments.
Obviously it didn't stick-- but the dye was cast.

His anger-- was real.

I always try to be a student of human nature. Understand others, understand myself. Not to explain or excuse-- to understand.

I have enjoyed reading and thinking about your observations, even though I don't agree with some of them. (It would be interesting to break-down the Lori-Gerry-Dani hand-washing fight scene and all the possible motivations for each-- but maybe another time under, "How to spot a confrontational personality and avoid it.)

This debate has been a good one. But I still think I was watching people reveal character, not play a game. They just wanted to call it a game. Time will tell.


Just a few new quick thoughts I've been thinking about:

How could Dani say she liked somebody "out of the house" when she never even met them out of the house?

She said Jason was a "true friend," but they never really got to talk because they were hiding their partnership. They mostly talked about the game.

Dani said she was different in the house than in real life, but assumed Jason wasn't?
So Jason really liked a personality that didn't exist?
Or...
Did he see her real personality? And if he did, why didn't we?? I saw Dani act the same around Jason as she did around any of the others. I didn't see any major change in character when in different situations. She was always the same. Some people she plotted with and others she didn't, but that isn't character.

Anyway... I'll say with a smile...

GAME? (NO.) NOT A GAME.

Wcv63

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 07:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thank you niceguy. :O I try.

Sbw...true...but in keeping with the analogy the trash talking was done in the locker room. Simply an effort to keep one pumped.

Game? (YES) YES A GAME. Thanks Tobor. This was fun!

Tobor7

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I'll toss one ot two more over after the last show-- after the interviews---

Thanks all.

Tobor7

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 04:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Evidence:

Dani: "I was honest in DR. What you see is what you get."

Dani: "I would do it all the same way again."


Game? (NO) Not a game.

Betty

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 05:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't know where to ask this as new topics are closed and it wasn't answered in another thread.

We in internet land have recently compared Dani to Will, and amazingly Lisa made the same connection last night. Wasn't she one who said they hadn't watched BB before? Did I miss something, is she phychic, or is there a big fish smell in the DR?

Tobor7

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:50 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
So.......

You all have seen the interviews, so I won't clip quotes from them.

Clearly this wasn't a GAME for everyone, or they wouldn't still be playing it. They are out of the house. The cash is gone.

What are they "playing" for now?

Tobor7

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:05 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Oregon FINALLY said:

"(Tobor, if you're out there, I am giving credence to your idea that people's behavior is predictable, so if you're keeping tabs on my arguments, there's an "I agree!" for you and a contradiction to what I said in the past.)"

I'm glad that this discussion is still on-going. I think it is an important one, and one that I think about during the many things I see and come into contact with.

Oregonfire

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Nice cut and paste, Tobor. I only agree if I feel like agreeing; I'm fickle that way. I do believe that every argument has a counterargument, and sometimes like to argue the more unpopular position. (Which of course you saw coming, I bet, being a student of human nature yourself!)

Tobor7

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I can usually argue both sides of any argument. That's the key-- to see it from both sides.

Sometimes it is hard to pick a side. (That's why God put change in my pocket.)

Tobor7

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Bumping it up.

Snee

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 09:32 am EditMoveDeleteIP
dani & jason--game
others--not a game

Denecee

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 09:44 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Snee. hehe!

Cmore

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 07:59 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I find it very hard to believe that Jason and Dani will remain friends outside the house. They may remain friendly, but being "friendly" or "friends" is hardly the same thing.

I could be wrong of course and maybe in reality Dani and Jason are not all that different. Jason was probably the most camera aware person in the house and I didn't quite buy into the Mr. innocent theme all the way.

On the surface he seemed to be, the shy sincere virgin that most believed him to be, but I believe below the surface was another person peeking out from time to time.

I saw Jason as more of a spoiled kid, who needed guidance, but also needed to have his way. He had no problems playing cutthroat at Dani's suggestion, when it was in his best interest, but also resisted her suggestions at times, when it was in her best interest.

Example#1: Dani suggested that Jason nominate Roddy, which was in HER best interest and Jason did not do it, because of a promise he said he had made to Chi

Example#2: When Dani suggested that Jason evict Marc, because Marc was a threat to HIM, bam, no problem.


Jason also was very angry at the HG's at the dinner from hell, for not winning any meals for the week, even though he himself was not just limited to PBJ. Remember he was HOH and had a decently stocked supply to eat from.

Its strange, the little things that you see in the house and from that you have to try and piece together in you own mind what kind of a person you think they really are.

Was Jason really a Mommy's boy and for his time in the house, Dani was his surrogate mother or is there another Jason hiding somewhere inside?

Rosa

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:21 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I wonder why Dani thinks she was like Will? I heard her compare herself more than once in the house and everytime she did it I laughed. Nicole yes, Will, never. First she would have had to aquire a sense of humor. C-More, I love your posts, you really are observant.