Archive through July 16, 2002
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The ClubHouse: General Discussion Archives: Archive Three: Why no REAL 'fat girl' in the house, but we get George, Gerry, Kent, etc. : Archive through July 16, 2002

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
There was Autumn, who was not *even* truly "fat" in my opinion... then we have poor cute little Amy this season saying in that one TV shot 'I saw the other girls and I'm like oh great looks like I get to be the fat girl on this year's show' ... and yeah she has a hint (only a hint!) of a tummy and a round little face but again, she ain't no real live 'fat girl.' Then we had Lisa talking about how she was 'fat' and weighed what, 150# at one time - on someone her height, again, that would not be really "fat". So what's the deal, how come they never put a WOMAN who is seriously overweight in the house? If not one of the "300# internet freaks" (hah!) then how about someone who more genuinely represents the American weight average? Anybody can walk around in our society and see that lots and lots of women really are fat, meaning overweight in a way where they probably would not be comfortable in a bikini or being ogled naked. Invariably on this show we get a male person of more or less middle age who is some variation of 'fat.' There was George, there was Kent, and now there's Gerry. So my question --- how come they never pick a WOMAN in that demographic? Do they think they're doing actual fat women a favor by not letting them be "embarassed" if one of them is represented on the show and inevitably made fun of? Oh man, could you imagine someone *actually* fat on a show like this where some of the other contestants look like models?! Talk about a REAL variety!

Or even better, how about a whole house full of fat people and only one or two model types? I seem to remember there was an idea being tossed around about a show for fat people locked in a house trying to lose weight and being tempted by sweets or something, don't know if that was a joke or whatever happened to it. But would anybody here watch such a show? I get a kick out of watching *any* human beings who volunteer to be lab rats, but must admit the constant vanity and perceived superiority of the model types typically chosen for shows like this really gets a little boring at times. If I want to watch people who have "perfect" bodies, hair, makeup etc., all I have to do is pick up magazines or go to the movies or watch friends. I just think it'd be a hoot to watch a bunch of blatantly NON model types sitting around making fun of Barbie and Ken instead of the other way around for a change, or at the very least to get one really confident genuinely fat woman in the house to mix things up a little, someone who wouldn't be intimidated by the likes of Tonya or the formerly "fat" Lisa.

What do you guys say - would you watch it? Would you be "grossed out"? Why do you think they keep going with people like Autumn and Amy where their weight "issue" is almost nonexistent?

(Sorry for the long rambly post!)

Bigd

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:47 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Karen from the first show was a pretty "real" person.

Oregonfire

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Lisa looks like she's been in a prisoner-of-war camp. She does look pretty good in a bikini. but then again I always thought Brit from BB1 looked good in a bikini too. It's all about being in proportion for me.

I think Amy looks great, cute as a a button, and is much pettier than the other women."Roundness" just seems to fit her overall.

Merlin

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sobaditsgood said <Anybody can walk around in our society and see that lots and lots of women really are fat, meaning overweight in a way where they probably would not be comfortable in a bikini or being ogled naked. >

I am not sure if you will need it or not Sobad, but I am going to leave you some body armor.....just in case.

Ryanc2002

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sobad - Boy you're just full of 'em this morning. ;)

I dunno...I guess if you ask Chiapet it's because they're all sitting at home watching on the internet. All 6 of 'em.

Realtvfan

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:06 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The HG are chosen for ratings.

There will never be a truly slightly overwieght female, and there will always be only one token overweight older male.

If you look at overwieght women who make it big in show business, with a few very notable exceptions, these women are commedianes.

Unfortuately, this is our culture. The Brits are actually more civilized than American audiences at least when it comes to older women. The days of Helen Hayes etc... in America are long gone.

Evidence of this is in the movie of Gweyth Paltrow and Micheal Douglas. "something murder or something" 5 or 6 years ago. She was awful becuase she was just too young to understand her role. Micheal Douglas was great because he has done all those movies in the past. The simple reason for Gweyth was potential Box Office. The unfortunate result was that she was just too young to play the part properly.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Bigd, Karen wasn't anything at all close to fat, but yeah I agree she seemed pretty 'real' otherwise.

O-fire, I too think Amy is cute, and her body is fine in my opinion. Lisa just doesn't appeal to me at all, including her voice which seems sometimes a bit affected to me, just this side of Jamie's high-pitched "little girl" voice which I found very annoying. I agree with whoever here said Lisa has a "horsey" looking face.

Merlin - thanks for the body armor (apt for this thread eh?!!!) but I didn't mean to insult women with that comment you quoted. There are plenty of men who are fat in that same way, I only put it that way to differentiate from people who are 'fat' like say Autumn or Amy. I keep seeing references people make about how this or that person has a more "realistic" body and was just saying that IMO they need to go a lot further if they REALLY want to represent what's most realistic outside that relatively small group of people who aspire to be actors, models, or that horrifying quasi-combination typified by our old pal Mike Boogie. Har!

Ryanc2002

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Karen was "real" in what way? Cause, I'm not coming up with many ways you could end that thought and be truthful. She was pretty "out there".

Yankee_In_Ca

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
In my opinion, if we (the public) call Amy or Autumn "fat" -- women who look healthy and even smaller than North America's normal woman -- can you imagine the field day people would have on someone who was actually overweight?! Like it or not, people are judgmental and sometimes mean. We expect people on our television and film screens to look a certain way. If someone deviates slightly from the stick-thin bodies we are used, many people immediately think, "they're fat" -- even if we saw them in real life we'd never think that. Look at Drew Barrymore. People call her fat all the time. I saw her in person two years ago at the height of her supposed "chubbiness," and she was a tiny little thing. But I continued to read in magazines about how "big" she was.

I'm not saying that these attitudes are right (on the contrary), nor that this by any means excuses BB3 for only casting thin women, but what I am saying is that people are often mean and judgmental, and like it or not, a non-skinny woman is considered "fat" in our society.

Blah.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ryan, yeah I am just full of ... well, something this morning! Hey slow morning at work, but I'm about to get busy again so don't worry, I'll slink away back into the shadows! As for Chiapathetic, she's skanky and her immaturity is seriously stunted, even for an early-20-something female. Just an opinion, don't kill me pls, I know some people seem to find her appealing but I jsut can't see it, kinda like I could never see anyone finding Jordan appealing.

Realtvfan - Yeah you sorta zeroed in on my point or the heart of my question about a 'real fat girl.' I don't doubt that there will never be such a person on shows such as this, but my question I guess was, why not? I mean I understand it's about ratings etc but that's just it -- as long as they keep some stereotypical "eye candy" around too, don't you think if anything *more* people (esp. women) would watch to see what would happen? This was why I asked the question. I think more people would watch, esp. women who would either relate to the fat woman and want to cheer her on and boo the prettier-than-thous, or the other extreme, believe themselves better than her and want to tune in to make fun of her and brag about how they're superior. That was my question I guess - the producers obviously don't pick such a contestant because they think it would lose them ratings..... do you think they're right or are they being short-sighted?

As for 'older women' the age thing wasn't so much a basis for my curiosity. In fact I would prefer it if they put a youngish woman who is fat but also supremely confident of her attractiveness, in the same house with women like Lisa, Tonya etc. I think that would be truly fascinating on all kinds of levels. I'm not being sarcastic, I really do think it would be interesting and I really do think a lot of women, if not men, would LOVE to see such a show, meaning it would not be a ratings flop.

Just musing this morning. Thanks for indulging me, all!

Yankee_In_Ca

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh, and another thing. I don't have anything against anyone on BB3 looking like a "model type." Nothing wrong with that.

My problem lies when someone who looks like a "model type" believes (and acts accordingly) that they are superior over others merely because of their looks. And someone who holds physical attractiveness as their preoccupation and measure of self-worth, forgetting about kindness, charity, intelligence, and yes, health.

Now THAT is unattractive.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ryan, can't speak for anyone else but what *I* mean about Karen seeming pretty real ... I was still speaking in the context of physical appearance. She wasn't beautiful, wasn't a hardbody, she was just sort of neutral. Like someone said of Lori this year, you could see dozens or hundreds of people like her anywhere and they probably wouldn't catch your eye one way or another, bad or good.

(No comment on Karen's nonphysical, um, attributes at the moment.)

Eliz87

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Karen and Cassandra have had the most "real" bodies thus far, as far as the female hampsters go, and I thought it was very sad last year when Nicole was thinking she was fat, because she definitely was not.

But I think the answer is fairly simple. The casting is simply mirroring what the average American viewer does or does not want to see. It is a fact that most people have no problem seeing a heavier man without a shirt, whereas having a "fat girl" in a bikini or tank top/shorts right next to that heavy man most often would invite dirty looks and jeers. (Even Richard Hatch's "birthday suit" was pretty much taken with a grain of salt. Oh that silly Richard!)

People in general feel more free to criticize women about physical attributes. Look at the beating Jaime took on this message board just a couple of years ago because of her chin. (Okay say what you will about it, but for God's sake, Jaime was a beauty pageant winner!! lol). There was a whole topic devoted to The Chin -- and The Snaggletooth (Karen). Yet not much has been said throughout all three seasons about the imperfections of the males, besides maybe an aside or two about Bunky's back hair.

Women are expected to conform to thinner body types, although the average size clothing for women in America is 12 or 14 (can't remember which). Women who are sizes 2, 4, 6, and 8 are just perceived as those who are more attractive to the eye, although this isn't always truly the case.

In my opinion, none of the men on the show this year are anything to look at, except for Jason who is VERY YOUNG. It is interesting though that three of the women (I can't say four because I can't include Chiara - I just CAN'T) are what would be considered "hotties." Maybe Arnie's thinking they need more male viewers?

I'll close with saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it's easier to change weight than beauty. *meow*

Deirpg

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:24 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Unfortunately, in our society, not only does sex sell, but beauty sells too. And this is most applicable to women. Amy and Autumn are not overweight at all. Actually, Amy is probably the healthiest woman in that house weight-wise. Lisa is a skeleton, and she doesn't even have a woman's body because she is too skinny to have hips. The media has skewed our idea of overweight. It has led many people to believe that people Amy's size are overweight, when she is probably a very healthy weight. It's pretty obvious, though, that this round of BB doesn't speak much to health over beauty. Tonya and her implants is a perfect example of this. In the CBS BB chat room, all I hear is how beautiful Tonya is and what a great body she has. Some people don't realize or maybe don't care that it's fake - all of it. Her hair is fake, her white teeth are fake, her breasts are fake, and what else has she altered for appearance sake? This is an unrealistic and unhealthy ideal to live up to. Makes me so sad...


Sorry to be so morose today!

Realtvfan

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sobad,
I'm in agreement with you that a much wider range of people of all types would make for much more interesting television.

In terms of what women tune in to see: one person once mentioned on TV that the largest demographic of newsstand purchases for the Sports Ill. swimsuit issue is ... women.

It would be much more interesting television with a more varied cast, but unfortunately, lower rated television.

Survivor is more open to overwieght women than BB. Pat S4, Mad Dog S2.

Jeneane

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:31 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I would tune in to watch people who are less than the ideal mainly because they usually have developed some great character. How about a house full of funny, kind, people (like Rosie) who have struggled in life and are confident enough to go in front of the public. Ok so bikinis would not be in the mix but I think some real side splitting fun would evolve. I dare Arnie to bring that AWWWWN.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Realtv - not surprised about more women buying SI swimsuit issue. That old saying about how women dress up/put on makeup/etc for OTHER WOMEN and not men, I think it really is true. Guys think they're more competitive because they have the overtly competitive sports stuff but I'm telling you, *women* gotta lock on the competition thing!

I don't know enough about how ratings work, in terms of demographic.. you hear alot about '18-35 white male' being an important advertising target group and no question but thats' why you see the stereotypically 'attractive' women trotted out for these shows (witness the kinds of ads typically shown. basically: 'hey, let's get drunk and drive cars'! but hopefully not in that order.) But yeah my point was I think the producers have their heads in the sand on this issue --- women would love a show featuring lots of female body types, and the ad potential would be great too. (Like there aren't enough weight loss product ads already. ha, so sad.)

You're right about Survivor being more open to overweight women (and older, for that matter). Isn't that funny/interesting, a show where theoretically you need to be in better shape healthwise to be a competitor - and they give more leeway. Whereas here on BB I guess they know it's all about standing around, sitting around, lying around looking 'pretty'!

In a side note to this whole thread, its just interesting to me how differnt people's taste can be. So many women (incl some HG) going on and on about a couple of the guys, Eric and Roddy --- neither of whom I find appealing at all. Eric is flatly unattractive to me, so he works out and has a 'nice body' eh, big deal. (With women like that guys sometimes make the awful joke 'yeah great body but bag her face!') Roddy's okay I guess, just nothing special. I agree with others about Jason, I think he's a cutie pie and I wish they'd all lay off about the virgin thing, esp Chiatramp. Give it a rest already! For my money Amy's the most attractive woman, though I wish she wouldn't wear so much makeup.

Thefan

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
How about a house full of beautiful women, of all different sizes? I would sign up, but like so many of you have said, who would watch? (I would be one of the big ones)

Take out the sex and you have lost alot of the marketability. Women, if they were all straight, would turn it into a complete mind game which would be interesting.

And the same for men of course.

Iceprincess

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Because "REAL" women have "REAL" brains and they would not only intimidate, but outsmart those "FAKE" ones and thereby making the competition unfair. Can't have a battle of the wits with an unarmed person.

Wcv63

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
It's a double standard that has long been in existence. Men become distinguished. Woman get older. Men with a little weight on them are considered real, normal. Woman with a little weight on them are considered lazy and fat.

Women help to perpetuate these perceptions by buying into the "thin is better" ideal and letting ourselves get caught up in the whole body image distortion the media represents.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thefan --- you're a step ahead of me, I was going to suggest that next, a houseful of gorgeous women... and ONE man. A straight, equally beautiful man. And all those women (all that estrogen!!) competing their hearts out for his attention....! That'd be great too. It'd be interesting the other way, lots of men and only one woman, all "gorgeous" but I don't think it would be nearly as tv-interesting.

You're right about taking out the sexual undercurrent and it losing marketability. Once again, this is why think it'd be hilarious if they got a good looking yet genuinely overweight girl in the house, among other things might show that overweight women can be attractive, sexual, etc. Course that would depend on whether the men in the house were receptive or repulsed. Get a couple cutie guys who actually like big women and then you might have a REAL show on your hands -- watch the Barbies seethe while the Kens ignore them in favor of bigger-is-better-Barbie.......! Man, something like that would be so much fun to watch.

Jeneane, I'll CO-SIGN your challenge to Arnie.....! :)

Scorpiomoon

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Realtvfan is right. These people are picked for ratings. It's not the producers fault viewers would tune in in higher numbers to watch "beautiful" women rather than "normal" women and are more forgiving of men with physical flaws.

What about teeth? Has anyone noticed all these people have great teeth? Even Karen had amazing teeth and a radiant smile.

Wcv63

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:09 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sobad that show was on TV already. The Bachelor. I didn't watch it as it didn't appeal.

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:10 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Scorpio, I know that's the party line, it's all about ratings. "Picked for ratings" etc. And that most people would watch "beautiful women" than "normal" women etc. (Setting aside for a moment the fact that normal women ARE beautiful!)

I started this thread not because I don't already know those things but because I started wondering whether we've all become so used to thinking this way and accepting it as fact that we never stop to think whether it's actually TRUE. Would people really stop watching or stop buying live feeds if those onscreen were at the other end of the beauty spectrum? Personally I wouldn't stop watching, I'd watch all the more intently, it would be more interesting to me, not less, and I just wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way.

When you show beautiful people on a reality show you're only showing the same thing you can see on virtually all other media outlets: beautiful people. But if you show "normal" or distinctly UNbeautiful people, then you have something genuinely unique. And I just am not so sure I buy that nobody would watch unless it's a hardbody show, that's all.

Regarding teeth, well, not *every* BB contestant has great teeth, it's obviously not a requirement, remember ol' whatshisname with the broken tooth or whatever it was..

Sobaditsgood

Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:12 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wcv, hah, never saw that one. I don't watch much tv, honest, BB is my only guilty pleasure! and I do mean guilty. :)