Archive through July 18, 2002
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The ClubHouse: General Discussion Archives: Archive Three: Eric in trouble at work!: Archive through July 18, 2002

Oregonfire

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Haven't read the whole thread, but Eric can come out West and have a job anytime! The wildfires are ablazin', and I'm sure he'd be forgiven for the three-month hiatus. Assuming of course, he lasts three months

Kalekona

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
it will be interesting to see how things shake out. His father did open the letter but will not comment. I have to wonder what the houseguests contracts say about this sort of thing- are they told or do they sign away the right to be told if something of this scope happens?

Ryanc2002

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
LAFD (Long --- Front Door) Right now... Maybe they're telling him.

Loppes

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why didn't Eric just ask for a 3 month leave of absence? Why trade shifts?
Lon

Amac

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:43 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Doesn't it make sense that Eric, at the point he knew he was in the final 50 or so, would at that point (if he hadn't earlier) tell his superior that he may get this gig and would need the time off as leave of absence? Why didn't he?

I mean, this isn't a setup like Survivor.

Amac

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Why would Eric need to lie about anything? This isn't Survivor.

Chance

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:45 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sorry Teebird, no offense meant -- hubby & I were stationed there awhile --

My dad just retired from fire dept -- still as a private -- wouldn't play the political games.

It is tough -- but he's only 27, still early enought to try somewhere else. <--- from JKM

Wow Jkm, your dads only 27 ?!?!
j/k I couldn't resist...in a silly mood today
;-)

What555456

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
"As far as Eric's chief saying that being one man down can hurt the department, I have a difficult time swallowing that one. First of all, most towns with departments of this size have "mutual aid", where one city helps out another city. Second, if they do call out more manpower, they aren't going to call just one person - they will more than likely do an "all call", which means everyone they can contact. If Eric made arrangements with other firefighters, they just act in his place (at least that's how it is here)."

Mutual Aid is very expensive for the city that calls it in. To have to add that cost because some guy decided on his own to manipulate th system for a 3 month leave of absence would really anger me as a taxpayer. It is intended for emergencies, not because of a rookie's "I am going to be a star" fantasies.

If there is an "all call", that is what it means. EVERYONE is expected to be there. If I have 20 on the force and need 20, to say that one of the 19 is working for the 20th does not get me what I want.

And, as far as there being a problem being one man down, I believe the chief commented that this is vacation time and there are obviously others not there. It is one thing to ask to change a shift and make it up in a week or so. It is quite another to change 3 months worth of shifts.

Plus, what sort of shape will Eric be in, and well hard will he be able to really pull his weight, if he still has a job and suddenly has to make up all these shifts he traded, while still working his regular ones?

The problem with this sort of abuse of the system (and that is what it is even if it is allowed) is that the management of the city is going to now want to see the contract changed so this cannot happen again. The provision in the contract was never meant for this sort of stunt, I am sure. I assume it was meant to make things a little easier for the firefighters -- but not to allow for undetermined vacations. For a rookie to have stretched the intent this far, thus creating a union/management fight for this sort of silly reason, should not be acceptable.

I am surprised the union is going to fight this for him. I doubt they will fight that hard because they are not going to want to have the veterans' rights impinged because of some stupid 9 month rookie's decision to push the envelope this far.

I'd take major disciplinary action --whatever I could up to and including firing him -- if I were the Chief.

Kalekona

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
the union is fighting for him because their contract says he has done nothing to be disciplined for.
The chief was aware he was in the running for the show- he didn't forbid it or refuse to allow the shift swaps so that should be the end of it- the only thing I can see as a true violation is not leaving a number where he can be reached.

As for being down one man in a recall, he's a rookie not a veteran so his ability is more or less a body and what do you do to the guy out with an injury or out of the country for something you would still be down one man do you discipline them?

Crossfire

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:05 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I hire someone to work for me, and I don't see him around the office for three months, I think we can assume he has done something wrong.

Maris

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe the fact that he is a rookie is a consideration. He did not follow the rules and he is just a rookie, he hasnt earned any points. Firefighters take their jobs very seriously and to them it is a lifetime commitment. When a rookie walks out after eight months and says cover for me, I think they would want to put a stop to it because what is the next valid reason?

Tabbyking

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
aria, he was hired on october 1, but then had to do the firefighting training, which he did starting in december. i don't think he has actually worked as a fireman for very long; he is counting his interview date and training months as part of his 9 months. i am wondering if he really wanted terribly to be a firefighter, or thought it would seem glamorous and so acceptable after the heroic deeds of the NYC firefighters and police officers.
when i first became an emt, i was so into my work, my family went on vacations and my family reunions
without me! i almost didn't even take the days off i was allowed when my father passed away, because i had only been working for 6 weeks and felt guilty about it. i did end up taking 2 days because i had so much family about, although working would have helped me take my mind off things... some busy holiday weekends i would work in the e.r. for no pay because i just felt i was needed. the good part of volunteering was i could jump from ambulance to trauma room without either the hospital or ambulance company thinking they were paying me while i was working for the other! when you choose a career in the emergency field, it has to come first, although i was very lucky to have a husband who cared for the kids while i was in the field, even though he had his own full time job.( i worked nights). once the kids got into sports and other activities, i quit my job so i could be a fulltime mother.
eric's job takes dedication and years of unselfish commitment. it makes me think of 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'.
i feel as if maybe eric 'used' his status to go onto BB and maybe from there...some type of celebrity status. not that he took the job knowing he would apply for BB3, but he knew it made him appear attractive, important and heroic to others.
i was totally prepared to like him and haven't been much impressed...

Marysafan

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I am supporting the chief in this case. He is the man responsible for the performance of the department. They are not swapping shifts in the normal sense of the word. "You take my Tuesday night and I will cover you on Friday".

This is three months of guys working more than their shifts. What is Eric gonna do when he gets back? How much time will he have to pay back? Trust me...there will be sick time involved in this somewhere down the line.

Eric's decision to participate in this show does indeed put the department at risk. It is tough to run any business shorthanded for that length of time, let alone one as demanding as a fire department. It puts a strain on everyone.

And since when is participating in a game show reason to grant a leave of absence? My position is you either want to work here or you don't. You want the job or you don't. Eric as a rookie was foolish to think that life at the Fire Department revolves around him. There are a lot of other guys who would love to have that job.

Big Brother has rules too. No outside contact. Should they be "bent" for Eric too...NO! I believe Nicole's Father-in-law passed away the last week she was in the house...and no one told her.

Eric made a choice. Let him deal with the consequences.

Aria

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:51 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Tabby, ITA, I think he did count the training in the 9 months.

I think What makes a very good point about abusing the system. I am not sure about the employment laws or the union contract where Eric works, but it is possible that a lot of those covered shifts may have to be paid overtime wages. That could really throw a wrench into the firehall's budget.

It seems to me that he probably didn't lie to the Chief since BB did pick him up at the firehall. I think that the Chief probably told Eric that it was more he was willing to accomodate for such a new recruit.

IMO I think the Chief may have a case.

Dmarcomb

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:52 am EditMoveDeleteIP
As far as Eric lying about why he was leaving...I don't think so. The Chief tried to discourage him during the selection process. Also, on the first show when they showed all the HGs getting their keys, Eric was at work. He took off his coat and told his coworkers he was going on the show and only had 2 hours to pack. It appeared that he walked off the job mid-shift!

IMHO, Eric knew the risks regarding his job before going into the house and is willing to accept that he won't have a job when he gets out.

Abigail1970

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:55 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If he loses his job in CT, I am sure he can find another some where else, fire fighters are needed everywhere.

Ryanc2002

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:57 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Dmarcomb - I think some of the "getting the key" scenes were scripted.

Dmarcomb

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:02 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ryan, I thought that might be the case.

__Tera

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:04 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
That is what I was thinking, Abigal. Yeah it sucks being fired. Anyway I'm sure he was on the low end of the pay scale. I certainly would not leave the house, and risk having no chance to win the 1/2 mil if I were him.

How many of the former HG's went back to their jobs? It seems like many of them moved to CA.

Abigail1970

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Exactly Tera, most of the HG's have an agenda. I am sure he wouldn't even contemplate leaving if BB tells him what's going on, which I doubt they will.

Lostinthefog

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't know about you guys, but where I work you can't take a leave of absence to go on a reality TV show. It is extremely difficult to take a leave of absence for valid causes (surgery, health, etc.), but I definitely think that most workplaces would not consider Big Brother 3 a valid excuse for a 3 month leave of absence.

Kaili

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Just a question- does Eric have a degree in Fire Science at all, or did he just go in for the training and take the psych & physical exams? I'm not sure if the degree is required or not...just wondering becuase my cousin and a friend both went for that degree.

Halfunit

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:17 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
A thought occured to me... I don't know what the probationary period for this department is, but I can't see anyone being granted a leave of absence for 3 months when you haven't worked there for at least a year.

What555 and Tabby, you bring up good points.
What555- I can only speak for mutual aid here, and most of the time it cost the taxpayer nothing additional. The city where I live has a "sister city" and they (fire & police) frequent the other cities without calling out additional manpower. Sure it happens at times, but the majority of incidents are handled with those already on the clock. Also, when there is an all-call here, like I said before, it involves those that care to respond. I know first hand that there are people who don't answer their pages, or screen calls not to be called out. A lot of it depends on how tired the guys are, if they are OT hungry, and dedication.

I do see what you are saying though!!! :)

Tsgtfiredawg

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 01:12 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
First of all, the union will defend him even if he has worked there one day. Thats there job. As for the switching shifts, that is a personal thing between eric and the other f/fs. People have to remember that we do not work the some hours that most people do. He may work a 24 on 48 off shift or a 24 on 72 hour shift. Either way he may only have to make up 15 to 20 days even if you stays the whole time. Most departments don't pay the people he has swapped with overtime. They may be working extra hours but it is with the understanding that they are working his hours not overtime.
For those who don't know about where he works there are "Mutual Aid" companys around. His department is a mixed (Paid and Volunteer) department with when I left the area had two stations. His department covers the Town of Groton. There is also a city fire department that has two stations. They are within 5 minutes of PB's stations. You also have Electric Boat who builds Submarines for the US Navy who have a full-time paid department. Also in the Town/City of Groton you have Pfiser Chemical Plant and The Naval Sub Base which both have full paid departments ready to assist.
Groton is a medium size city but I do not believe that having one member gone is going to cause the system to collapse. If the chief was that against eric going to the show he should have not discouraged it he should have said that he would not guarantee his job if he went.
Just for info most departments do not require prior training in the field however if you do have volunteer time or have gone to schools for training it sure doesn't hurt. Most paid departments will send new members to a training academy when they get hired. You can also learn it on the job if that is how that department wants to do it.

Halfunit

Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 01:34 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks Tsgt for the local info. I know that the union will represent him if it even goes that far. I wrote earlier that if it does, more than likely the arbitration will last longer than Eric is in the house, and if the city DOES prove misconduct, the most I can see is a suspension, providing Eric hasn't been reprimanded before. JMO

On a personal note, shift swapping here is based on the way you noted. My husband can work 8 eight hour days in a row and will only get paid for 5 days, but the three that he covered will either be paid to him by other officers working for him or giving him comp. time that they build up instead of taking overtime pay.