Archive through September 10, 2000

The ClubHouse: Big Brother 2000: General - Archives: Questions, questions and more questions: OT: What is the deal with UpTalking?: Archive through September 10, 2000

Dulci

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 09:59 am Click here to edit this post

Ok, I know this is off-topic, but I really want to know, and the HGs aren't up yet.

What exactly is the deal with uptalking? Is it a regional thing? Generational? Right/Wrong side of the tracks thing? Hoping some of you all will clue me in...

Delia

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:10 am Click here to edit this post

In my opinion, uptalking and mall speak (where the person says the words "like" and "or whatever" nearly every-other-word in a sentence) is what I call "trailer-trash" language. To me the people who use it sound illiterate. It is not a regional thing although it does appear to be mainly with younger people (10-30 years old) but some people just pick up from hearing it, unfortunately. To me this crap sounds like lower-class speech. Why anyone would ruin their speech and speaking tone by adopting this mess is beyond me. But they speak like this to "fit in." I know some colleges and Universities are very concerned about uptalking/mall speak because they don't want their graduates to represent their school with this "language" and speaking tone and they're also concerned that their graduates will not be able to find good paying jobs when they go to an interview talking like this. Hope this helps.

Delia

Dulci

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:21 am Click here to edit this post

Thanx Delia, I was "clueless."

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:23 am Click here to edit this post

Delia..from your posts..you really bug me...I don't know why...but you act like you know everything maybe that's why....well it's cool b/c like I probably make twice your salary anyway so whatever...

Delia

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:28 am Click here to edit this post

Dulci: You're quite welcome. Glad to help.

Delia

Gomer

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:45 am Click here to edit this post

Hoping somebody reads this can tell me EXACTLY where did this uptalking word come from.Is that supposed denote people that speak in sentences that sound like questions instead of statements?

That one really bugs (annoys-sorry) me.Guessing (I think-sorry) these phrases/inflections come from mass media tv speak,eg "valley girl"from tv.

Anybody help?

Sorry if this is ot-but I notice even an educated lawyer like Curt has fallen prey to that annoying voice thing-where Cass has stayed true to her speech patterns (Tho guessing she may lapse into Blackspeak in black party environments-but maybe not)
This tells me a lot about self confidence/individuality-but I may be wrong.

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:49 am Click here to edit this post

Gomer..interesting that you mentioned that. When Cass speaks to Eddie late at night..when they are laughing and joking her "Blackspeak" comes out. I however object to it being called that..i think it's more of an urban thing. I am not Black but I definitely speak differently to my Black and ethnic friends than I do to my white friends and that is b/c of people like Delia and the judgments they make. I've had many people express shock when talking to me that I am much more educated than they are.

Zappre

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:53 am Click here to edit this post

Wow, people really NEED something to hate if they're reaching for speech patterns and inflections as targets for their rage. Delia, i've heard you rail against this scourge to humanity throughout this board. Get over yourself!

Mystery

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 11:40 am Click here to edit this post

Delia said that people who talk that way "sound illiterate" and I have to agree that they do. She didn't say they WERE illiterate or that people who talk like that don't have good jobs. She just said that it's a tough impression to overcome and I agree again. All other things being equal, two people who have the same qualifications may ultimately be judged on their speech if oral communication is important to the job.

"I've had many people express shock when talking to me that I am much more educated than they are." I don't quite get this. If you're saying that you have to tell people how many years of education you have, because they don't get that from having conversations with you, then that's unfortunate. I have to say that although I agreed with your Banish George sentiments, I did not sign your letter because it was so poorly written. To give the two examples I still remember, "appalled" was misspelled and "evidenced" was used in place of a correct word such as "seen." I'm sure you don't care that I didn't sign it, but it does demonstrate Delia's point that communication skills do have an impact.

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 11:45 am Click here to edit this post

ROFL..we are talking about speech not spelling first of all and my use of "evidenced" was proper. I was speaking in terms of PROOF not mere observations. Regardless...i did not want you to sign MY letter..it was a guide for those who don't know how to write a good letter. Guess you fall into that category.

And my point was that you can't judge people on how they talk. I'm not going to talk in a "professional" bar when I'm at a bar talking to a guy. So try again!! Rofl!!

Gomer

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:09 pm Click here to edit this post

Janine

Just a thought about the"blackspeak"thing.That's MY(only) word I use to denote the-familial kind of banter I see when 2"sisters"or"brothers"interact among themselves.I never speak in those terms to/with them and don't slight/feel slighted because of it-recognizing it the same as 2 italian/spanish hypen Americans do the same thing in their languages with each other.

I do refrain from using those colloquialisms with people that aren't exposed to it or in public/more formal situations out of courtesy,thinking some may be put off.

I also agree with the other posters that if you have a modicum of intellect good grammar/speech is the most effective way to present yourself to the public,and behooves you to do it for your own good.

It ain't hard to rid yo'seff of bad speaking/righting padderns :) :)


PS-Eddie is so much like me at 21-it's like looking at an old reflection-and cringing (was I THAT bad) :)

Delia

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:38 pm Click here to edit this post

Obviously my comments have hit home with some people...I think I hit a nerve. Brittany pretty much blanketed the house with mall speak and uptalking and it caught on like wildfire...I noticed Cassandra even began talking like this (she was saying "like" a lot), but I suspect it was a conscious decision on her part in her attempt to "fit in" better with the other HGs. At least to my ear, since Brittany's departure there has been a bit less mall speak and uptalking. In general, people are judged on how they speak all the time, particularly in employment situation. Hope this helps.

Delia

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:41 pm Click here to edit this post

ROFL

Jana

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:42 pm Click here to edit this post

true "up-talking" is when you end the last syllable of your phrase on a high note...brit did this and jamie does some, but what the others do is more of a robot-sounding "quick-speech" ....a good example of "up-talking" would be Cindy Crawford....:) (yes i have a life!, I actually just saw a show once on "up-speech")...and you kids play nice! jana

Mystery

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:44 pm Click here to edit this post

Janine: your letter said "Many of us who have watched the show both on television and on the Internet are apalled that your company would allow corporations to sponsor the participants in the manner that we have evidenced in the past week." The verb evidence means "to indicate clearly, exemplify or prove" according to my American Heritage dictionary. The "we" in your letter were not evidencing anything. Instead, you were finding evidence. A better word would have been "seen."

While you're ROFL about my correcting your spelling mistake maybe you can explain your quick correction of "Jobe" on another thread.

Jombie

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:44 pm Click here to edit this post

You know, it's really strange, but a lot of Southern Californians have adopted "Valley Speak" mallspeak for the non-Los Angelenos) and that "sing-song" style of uptalking as their very own...

Yet, in other places where they talk 'down', people always equate this with a lack of intelligence - I wonder why ? Just because it might sound stupid doesn't mean the person speaking that way is...it's almost an accent that comes with the territory, much like a Southern drawl...they have special words and inflections to reflect their area as well...I don't believe it's any different than that...

Blackspeak, also known as 'Ebonics', is also misconstrued in that same fashion, and seemingly even between black people...Bryant Gumbel wouldn't be able to decipher it to save his life !!! But a white woman such as myself can appreciate and understand it...

Just a thought...

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:47 pm Click here to edit this post

mystery..you must have gotten someone else's copy of the letter b/c the copy of MY letter does not have that sentence :)

Jana

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:55 pm Click here to edit this post

well i guess if you think of it that way Jombie it makes a lot of sense....I have lived in Texas all of my 29 years and i DEFINATELY have a southern drawl! not that i want to, but it would be really hard to lose the accent..HOWEVER....i am able to clean it up a little in business situations (though you don't have to worry about that too much in Texas)...but i do sometimes , what i call "slack talk"...which means when i am around people from Alablama, or other places that have even more of an accent, i DO notice that my accent comes out more...i suspect that is part of the deal with the HG...that and just having something else to bond them together, it is very important to them to bond in there and they have no other outside influences, so i am sure it is magnified....

Mystery

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 12:55 pm Click here to edit this post

Janine: No kidding? A word search for Janine and evidenced turns it up in the second hit as a posting from you.

I'm sorry if this appears twice, it has not shown up yet from when I posted it a few minutes ago.

Creamynougat

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:09 pm Click here to edit this post

>Yet, in other places where they talk 'down', people always equate this with a lack of intelligence - I wonder why ?

You wonder why. Period.

But all seriousness aside, I don't equate so-called upspeak with a lack of intelligence but rather with a lack of education or with poor upbringing. And by "poor," I don't necessarily mean economic status. Habitual upspeak also conveys an impression that the speaker lacks conviction and self-confidence -- as if he or she were always questioning every statement.

I also notice upspeak occurs frequently in the dialect of the Southern U.S. But for some reason, I don't usually get the same sort of negative impression as it seems more a part of the regional dialect.

There is much discussion of this and other linguistic issues in several Usenet newsgroups, which are dedicated to such things.

Zappre

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:19 pm Click here to edit this post

World peace, hunger, racism, upspeak...

OK, i'm kidding, but only slightly.

Lindahntx

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:27 pm Click here to edit this post

Janine? Could you not BE more anal? Geez louise, get a grip. I've found you to be quite entertaining in other messages, but in this section, think you've gone bonkers right along with ole chicken man...

Janine

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:32 pm Click here to edit this post

I haven't gone bonkers...just defending myself from losers like mystery...lol..who probably has as much education as George.

Gomer

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:33 pm Click here to edit this post

Jombie--

Again MY definition of "blackspeak"is different from Ebonics

Blackspeak "hey sister- I hear things--" 2nd person "GIRL-you sure go on"usually with laughs or grins between with phrases
Ebonics-"wassup sista-summin talkin'trash--

A difference I guess of educational development,but this upspeak/mall thing seems like peerspeak conformity (like "blackspeak in my mind) when it probably started as somebody's definition of "hep"-"hip-"cool".the further removed from the original source-the less "cool"it becomes-so today hep (from the hepcat/jive 30's-40's)is looked on as "square.

Louie Armstrong,Fats Waller and the rest are rolling over in their graves.

My first experience with the like every other word was the beatnik/hippie thing-what's next?

Sorry for digression-language fascinates me

Delia

Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:43 pm Click here to edit this post

Creamynougat wrote: Habitual upspeak also conveys an impression that the speaker lacks conviction and self-confidence -- as if he or she were always questioning every statement.


That's exactly my take on it, especially the self-confidence part. I've heard school teachers on talk shows talking mall speak and uptalking. I assume they have picked this stuff up from their students. The problem with this is that the teacher is *supposed* to set an example, particularly the English teacher, not "dumb down" the language and speech along with the students. What's the point in having standards then if a teacher can't even hold to them.

Some uptalking is especially annoying, for example, I remember Brittany saying:

Brittany: "So like I was like on the phone?" (My response: Yes, we've got that. We all know what a phone is).

Brittany: "And like I go this is Brittany?" (Yes, Brittany, we've got that too, but were you telling the person you were Brittany or were you asking him if you were Brittany?...Don't you know who you are?)

Well, you get the drift. It just makes one wonder what is the point of making a statement sound like an interrogatory (a question, in other words). Lack of self confidence, in my opinion. Hope this helps.

Delia