FINALLY, Jamie is talking about.... the INEQUITY between men and women

The ClubHouse: Big Brother 2000: General - Archives: Houseguests: Jamie: FINALLY, Jamie is talking about.... the INEQUITY between men and women

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:31 am Click here to edit this post

Jamie, Curtis and Josh, sitting at kitchen table now, talking about the inequity between the sexes. She should have done this long, long ago. Interesting, that it is here, the day before banishment. Truly wish, she had done this months ago. This is likely to be viewed as a vote manipulation.

Too bad.....

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:34 am Click here to edit this post

and by the way...I AM a woman.

Jennylynn79

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:34 am Click here to edit this post

*nods* everything these days is viewed as a vote manipulation. I read a post earlier saying Eddie talked about his cancer as a vote manipulator.

Katie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:37 am Click here to edit this post

When what has happened is that she has been reading this magazine a lot yesterday and I think it has stirred her up. It is an discussion between Oprah and Jane Fonda. She is reading from the magazine.

Battlestar

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:41 am Click here to edit this post

oh jamie---if only you had done this earlier

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:41 am Click here to edit this post

So why then, did she not talk about this, the last 3 months? These are the deep discussions that should have been going on all along in the BB house.

Don't you remember...that's what frustrated Jordan. Their was nothing meaningful going on. This show had the potential of all kinds of really good outcomes coming about because of communication happening and being broadcast to 22 million people.

My point is, why did they have to wait till today, to begin? I wish it had happened long ago. It would have been much more interesting and thought provoking. Parents would have good subjects in which to talk with their children about. Dinner, may have become something more than....just eating.

Jennylynn79

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:45 am Click here to edit this post

You know, Jamie's not my favorite, but I'm going to forget that for a second. Why should Jamie have had to talk about this for the past three months? It's unfair to make Jamie the spokesperson for women, Cassandra the spokesperson for African Americans, Eddie the spokesperson for the disabled. You gain a lot of fans when you walk up on a soapbox, but you also gain a lot of enemies and segregate yourself from the rest of the house. Why can't they all just be people. (I am *not* saying Jamie shouldn't talk about it now...I think it's an important issue. But I don't think it's her "duty" or that she should have been doing it the whole time)

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:49 am Click here to edit this post

Agreed Battlestar. This could have really put a positive light on Jamie. It is too bad, that she is just now, figuring this out. Likely, she could have had much more of the women's respect. Personally, I have viewed Jamie as basically, a barbiedoll figure. If their is more to her, then I wish she would have showed this, as it may have changed my opinion about her.

I am a gay female. I would have loved to have had a female win this. But I can not vote for a woman, just because she is a woman. She has to have my respect, has to have integrity, and she has to be real. I do not feel she was real. And I really feel bad for that. As, their was real potential here. She could have made a difference. It would have been great to have a woman in the final three, perhaps even win. But, not Jamie. Not the Jamie, that I have seen over the last 3 months.

I feel as if Jamie, has set the women's movement back, not forward. Jamie, if you read this: If you had just been real, you'd of had my vote!

Katie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:53 am Click here to edit this post

This was such a sterile environment that it stiffled this. I think that a lot of us discuss things because we hear something on the news or read it in the paper or a magazine and it hits a chord with us and so we want to talk about it. The HGs didn't have that. I think that BB should have sent in a magazine or selected articles every week.

Is93267

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:53 am Click here to edit this post

She talks, people hate her.
She sits still, people hate her.
She gives Curt a massage, people hate her.
People just hate her.
There's no winning.
What would have happened if she was the one on the trampoline, jumping naked (even Brit couldn't have done it without mass hatred)?

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:58 am Click here to edit this post

No, perhaps I was not clear Jenny. Perhaps I put too much emphasis on the woman thing. What I meant was, the discussion of important topics. Could be race, disability, women's rights, but also, what's happening in Yugoslavia, South Africa, healthcare in America, taxes, fatherless homes, crime in America, abortion...etc. Matters of importance. As I said, Jordan tried to do this. However, most of the hg's tried to resist this. It is unfortunate. Positive change in american families, could have happened.

It's not all Jamie's fault, it's just that she, and Josh, are both looked at as people who really didn't share much of themselves. This could have been a really easy way, for them to shine, and for a positive impact on society.

Too bad, we the public, banished the person, who could have facilitated some discussion. I know, that Jordan was in alot of pain in the house towards the end. The rest of the hg's shunned her. Guess, she was ahead of her time.

Battlestar

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:58 am Click here to edit this post

Is---I disagree.

Jennylynn79

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:06 am Click here to edit this post

*nods*
tootseung, we are in complete agreement.

Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:07 am Click here to edit this post

Is, I hear you. But that's because it is NOW. I'm saying, if she had opened up early on, perhaps things would have been different. When you come in the house with a barbiedoll image, right then, you have to start working on letting the public and the houseguests see, that their is more to you, than superficical beauty. Then, was the time, to show.....what's on the inside. To be REAL, in a house that was billed as a reality tv show. That is what we all wanted. That is what cbs wanted. That was the POINT of the whole thing.

I am not placing all the blame on Jamie. The boys also. When they tried to call her on it, they let her off the hook way to easily. She did a pretty good job of "quizzing" them. Wish the boys could have done the same of her.

Bernie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:07 am Click here to edit this post

I think what's being forgotten here is that the Guests learned early on to keep their mouths shut, and not make waves, or they'd be GONE! Only Eddie, who has gained confidence lately, is feeling free enough to shoot his mouth off. If Jamie is opening up, I think it's because she's accepted that she's most likely leaving tomorrow, and it makes no difference now. She HAS said things once or twice to the guys, since Cassandra left, about their behaviour, but after Eddie's clothesline remark, I would think she was somewhat unnerved-wouldn't you be, even if it was in jest? Don't forget the old saying-many a true word is spoken in jest, and Eddie is so uncontrolled that I would hate to be with him 24/7. He gets on my nerves just reading about him. I think Jamie has tried to be like Josh, keep under the radar, and while it worked for him, it didn't work for her, BECAUSE she's now the only woman. She has been the focus since Cassandra left, and I think she's done very well, as Dr, Drew remarked on the TV show the other day, at keeping the playing field steady. That house would have been bedlam now if Brittany had stayed. I think Jamie is going to be voted out, and I think it's very unfair, as she has done nothing to deserve the vilification she has received. If the Eddie fans want him to win, vote out Josh-he's just as much a mannequin, and has been just as so-called 2-faced as Jamie, IF anyone HAS been 2-faced. With Eddie, it's strategy, with Jamie, it's hypocrisy-always the double standard. If you ever read this Jamie, good luck in life. You were just the chosen victim of the week, following in a line of them, selected after each banishment, by people who needed someone on whom to focus.

Ginger

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:13 am Click here to edit this post

Jamie, like all of us, has good sides and bad sides. It's unfortunate that in her hyper-vigilant attempt to come off as the everything to everyone woman, she has shown just the opposite. I think that Jamie is a smart and attractive and kind woman, even though I have often had negative reactions to her personality and the choices she makes. I am refreshed to see her talking about the important issue of sexism. I respect her bravery for doing so on national TV among a house full of young men.

Chixdigeddie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:40 am Click here to edit this post

sorry...she could have started talking about real issues the first day and it still wouldn't have made me feal any different about her

Annah

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:50 am Click here to edit this post

Wish she had brought this topic up when there were more women in the house to pitch in on it.

Lynnseamonkey

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 12:24 pm Click here to edit this post

I wish she'd give her own opinions more and stop reading to people.

Give her own opinion when she asks others to give theirs. Curtis and Josh kind of called her on that today and she finally committed to an opinion.

Maybe in time... (and not on BB)

Katie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 12:27 pm Click here to edit this post

Lynn,
She did give her opinions and tried to explain and got the article as a means to clarify to the guys because they just didn't get it.

Noslonna

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 12:31 pm Click here to edit this post

Lynnseamonkey, I agree that Jamie was not really giving her opinions. She was mainly quoting opinions given by Jane Fonda and agreeing with them. She kept asking Curtis and Josh to give their opinions on issues but was very reluctant to give her own. She also presumed to include Cassandra and Britt as holding the same feelings as she would on the issues brought up in the article.

Lynnseamonkey

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 12:41 pm Click here to edit this post

Katie, it could be that she has the same opinions expressed by Jane Fonda and Oprah.. but she was definitely summarizing the interview, and then she read the interview.

I don't think Jamie got what Curtis was trying to express.. she had talked about girls/women "sacrificing their femininity" to succeed.. Curtis tried to give examples of highly successful women who weren't at all seen (by him)as non-feminine, but he stressed that he didn't consider girly talk, extreme makeup, cheerleading and such to be requirements of being feminine..
just personal choices.

Watchers

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 01:18 pm Click here to edit this post

Jamie has been repeatedly frustrated in the house with some of the sterotypical thinking, she has chosen to remain reseerved. When Josh laughed about her pulling out ahead in Croquet, as though a woman couldn't possibly win the game, she got irritated. There have been other instances where you can see her seething.

But just like Cass, she figures she will be seen as a whiner if she points out the inequities in society. I'm sorry I missed this morning's discussion. Live feeds are just too boring these days.

Did the boys deny any such inequities? I will go the live feeds...

Watchers

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 01:42 pm Click here to edit this post

Well, went to the live feeds. As usual, a potentially interesting conversation died a quick death it seems.
I guess because there is one CEO in Silicon Valley now, all women can relax and realise that the world is completely equitable.

Katie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 01:59 pm Click here to edit this post

I guess I feel that if someone is quoting from a magazine it is because they are using it to express what they are thinking and feeling because they can't quite find the words themselves. They have an opinion but maybe don't quite know how to express it.

Lulu

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 02:42 pm Click here to edit this post

Jamie is a naive, starstruck girl. She's probably a good soul at heart, but her vision and judgement are clouded by her desire for fame. Her attempt to discuss important issues is a re-hashing of discussions between Oprah and Jane Fonda! Taking stars' words as gospel, she is the quintessential example of a victim of our culture of celebrity. It may seem that she was finally getting into a serious topic, but it was just another version of her obsession with Hollywood.

Sfnative

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 03:19 pm Click here to edit this post

While the phone lines are open, she is trying to revamp her image. Heh, why not pull out all the stops and go for the "female" vote.

I find it highly suspect that she finally...and I do mean finally...gets into a topic where she takes some sort of stand. If Bill Clinton is supposed to be the "teflon" president, Jaime is for sure the "teflon" houseguest.

Another question, did she start this discussion? If she brought it up, she is even more suspect.

Eddie, who has been accused of pulling out his "cancer" experiences to win votes was actually asked questions that opened up that discussion. I think the RR discussion about people wasting their lives came out of some of those questions. I also think that Eddie might have thought he could make a statement that would impact children. He does work with them.

Does anyone know if Jaime actually does any charity work...other than her Miss Washington duties. I know she keeps talking about the charity work she wants to do in the future.

I think what Eddie was saying is the "future" is now.

Noslonna

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 04:17 pm Click here to edit this post

Sfnative,
In answer to your question; yes Jamie was the one to bring it up. Curtis and her were sitting at the table after she had made omelettes for breakfast. Josh and Eddie were doing the dishes. Jamie was pleased her omelettes had turned out because she said it was the first time they had.

Jamie and Curtis were sitting quietly, drinking coffee. After several minutes of silence, Jamie asked Curtis if he was "fond" of Jane Fonda. Curtis said he hadn't really thought about it and asked if Jamie was fond of her. Jamie responded that she read the interview Jane Fonda had with Oprah and Jane Fonda was really "amazing."

Curtis pointed out that didn't really answer the question. Jamie answered that she was "really impressed with her" and repeated that she thought she was "amazing." Josh joined Curtis and Jamie at the table.

Most of the conversation Jamie tried to initiate involved repeating things about Fonda that she had gleaned from reading the interview. She also seemed more interested in Curtis and Josh's opinion then expressing her own.

The magazine article she wanted to read to Curtis and Josh was the part she personally related to. The Oprah/Jane Fonda interview was from the July issue of Oprah's O Magazine. The portion of the interview that Jamie read to Curtis and Josh is below:


Quote:

Oprah: I've read that, like me, you've always struggled with the disease to please.

Jane Fonda: I used to walk into a party and think, Oh, my God, will I be interesting enough? Will people like me? Will I be pretty enough? Do I fit in? Now I go into a room and think, do I really want to be here? Are these people I want to spend a few hours with? It's a big shift.

O: How did you make the shift?

JF: Hard work. Growing up.

O: Are you still growing up?

JF: To do life right, you have to feel like you're growing up until the day you die. The thing I'm proudest of is that I have stayed
curious. I have every intention, when I'm on my deathbed, of saying, "Oh, my God I get it!"

O: Do you get it at all now?

JF: Three or four years after I married Ted, I thought I got it. Wrong.

O: What did you think you had gotten?

JF: I thought I had learned how to have an intimate relationship. And I thought I'd learned how to be happy. Everybody has issues. For me, the challenge is intimacy.

(This is only a portion of the full interview.)


Tootseug

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 06:23 pm Click here to edit this post

Yes SFnative, as Noslonna said, Jamie did bring it up. I must say though, she tried talking with them for at least 5 or 10 minutes, without the article, but then had to go get it. I am assuming, for reinforcement.

SFnative, you are right on with the Eddie/cancer thing. It is always, because someone else has brought it up. I do not remember an occasion, where he brought it up to the group. The roommates are interested, as they should be. This, "need" thing, that so many Eddie haters talk about, is ridiculous. He is not a beggar, and does not play the "need-card".

I must say, though, that I am a bit frustrated with the fact that he has started to talk at the camera some. It happens when he is thanking people/organizations for sending over banners. I think he just wants to make sure that he says their dot.com address, a few times, for publicity for them, seeing that they are really supportive. But, I feel, that once is enough. I think he is just so thankful, that he overdoes it just a tad. I guess, I can live with it. He is my fav to win. He will be able to make the most out of the winnings, but most of all, he has entertained me the most, and has such a good heart.

Katie

Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 06:58 pm Click here to edit this post

There was more that Jamie said then that. She talked about this 'disease' of women causing eating disorders and the fact that until Jane was 36 she has bulimia. She tried to talk to the guys but as the guys kept saying they couldn't relate because they aren't girls/women. I think this is part of the problem in there. None of them seem to be able to relate to real issues.