Archive through September 26, 2000
The ClubHouse: Big Brother 2000: General - Archives:
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Having legitimate reasons not to like someone:
Archive through September 26, 2000
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 09:49 am  First, let me say that this is *not* meant to start a war on Jamie or this bulletin board or anything. It's simply meant to clear something up. I have noticed on here (and in a CNN chat I was in yesterday), that whenever a female doesn't love Jamie, people are quick to use the word "jealous" and make comments on Jamie being a female, as if not voting to keep Jamie in the house means you're voting against women. As a woman, I find this incredibly insulting. It's absurd to suggest that anytime I don't like someone of the same sex, it's because I'm jealous of them. I've never called Jamie ugly (I don't think she is), I've never discussed her make up (I don't really care), but I don't respect the way she acts in the house. I thought it was unfair that she wouldn't continue her conversation with Curtis because she didn't want it to be a "storyline". I was told yesterday that this is because I'm "jealous" (oh, that word), of Jamie's composure. Perhaps we're forgetting that Jamie signed up to be on a TV show. I know Jamie's supporters think that she's being smart by holding back--but quite frankly, she was almost voted out her first time up for banishment, so how smart is that? Granted, her housemates didn't nominate her for a long time, but Jamie's goal seems to be to please the American public, not her housemates (if she wasn't worried what the public thought she would just be herself with the people in the house). My point is, I don't think she's the anti-Christ, I'm not jealous of her looks, I simply don't respect the way she censors herself in the house. When people don't like Curtis I don't tell them it's just because he's Asian--when people don't like Eddie, I don't tell them it's just because he's handicapped--so when I don't like Jamie, why does everyone tell me it's just because she's a girl? |
Snowgirl | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 09:58 am  I don't believe that everyone who dislikes Jamie is jealous. I do think that people who take excessive joy in seeing her downfall are either jealous or emotionally screwed up. Not necessarily jealous of her specifically as an attractive woman, but there are people out there who have to pull others down to feel good about themselves. So, I don't believe the majority of women who dislike Jamie are jealous. But I do think that both men and women (sometimes women even more) are harder on a woman than a man. To me, Eddie and Jamie are both decent but flawed people. But to a majority of people here, Eddie can do no wrong, while Jamie is (to quote a few words I've seen to describe her): evil, sickening, vile and disgusting. I can accept that Jamie's flaws get on most people's nerves more than Eddie's do (for me, its the opposite.) But it's really hard to see her get so vilified and he is protected and defended. I don't know if it's jealousy, but I do think it may be sexism. |
Casper | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:03 am  Well said Snowgirl. It was "SO" good I had to read it twice.! |
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:06 am  i agree with a lot of what you said Snowgirl, but I personally think it's *also* sexism to assume women can't make decisions on who they like and don't like without jealousy coming into the picture. (I know you weren't doing this at all, it's just an extra thought I had when you mention sexism) I think a lot of people might defend Eddie more than Jamie because Jamie just tries *way* too hard. That sounds backwards, but what i mean is that a lot of people have an "Eddie is who he is" viewpoint--that he's just being himself, unconcerned about the camaras, talking like he would on the streets of New York. Yes, he's often offensive (he's not my favorite), but we atleast feel like we get to see the real him. With Jamie, a lot of people feel cheated. Her flaws seem exaggerated because her whole character seems so calculated. She *chose* to play this part. I almost feel bad for her, because I'm sure that she feels like she needs to be sweet and innocent 24 hours a day in order for people to like her--but just the fact that it seems to take so much effort to be this way makes me uneasy. If she doesn't like Eddie's comments, if she's angry at Curtis for talking about her being in the bathroom--then darn it, speak up for herself. |
Webrover9 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:08 am  Snowgirl, you named it. I agree with all you said and I do believe it is sexism. |
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:11 am  lol. how absurd of me to try to convince anyone that i'm not being sexist in not like a female. I'm loving how everyone is responding to Snowgirl, not at all addressing the possibility that I could not be sexist. Newsflash: it's just as absurd to vote for someone because they're a female as it is to vote against them because of it. I'm certainly not going to pretend to like someone just to avoid the sexist *jealous female* label. |
Ladytyson | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:23 am  I don't care for Jamie for alot of reason but the #1 is she is sooooo lazy. I have never seen her do dishes,others will clean and she just watches and walks around.. A sure sign of her not caring. |
Snowgirl | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:24 am  Jennylynn, I see your point about it being sexist to assume women don't like Jamie because they're jealous. I also thinks it's condescending; you know "I know what you think better than you do". I hate it when people do that to me. I've never really felt that the majority of Jamie-haters were motivated by jealousy, just an occasionally loud and spiteful minority. Re your point on Jamie's personality. I wish I could remember who posted it, but a while ago (at least a month), someone posted that Jamie "might be a phony, but she is a real phony". I took that to mean that she is being herself in front of the cameras; she's like this in her daily life also. I tend to agree. I've never really seen evidence that Jamie is "calculating". To me, she's an insecure person who is uncomfortable revealing her real feelings to anyone. She abhors conflict (so does Josh, and he doesn't get so much flack for it). I don't blame her for not "opening up" in front of the cameras - she's obviously just way too self-conscious. Some people say she shouldn't have gone on the show then, but I blame the casting people; they're the ones that chose her. Actually, I don't "blame" anyone. I've liked the mix of houseguests. I think if it had been a houseful of Brittanys, Eddies, Megas and Jordans, it would have given me a headache just to watch them. |
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:31 am  Snowgirl--regarding "real phony", that actually came to my mind too while I was writing my post. I guess it must come down to me not believing that anyone can be a *real* phony. I mean, I believe that in real life she acts that way too, but in order to be phony there must be a *real* Jamie somewhere. Like I said, I almost feel sorry for her. You're right, she is way too self conscious--I call it calculated because she has actually mentioned not wanting to be a storyline. It's obvious that with every move she makes she's thinking, "how will this look on TV?" This show is really about what we value in our own lives and about the people around us. We see traits that remind us of ourselves and we immediately like those people--it's often as simple as that. I just found it odd how everyone looks down on bigbrotherblows as being so very rude, when really there is also a huge lack of respect over differences of opinions here too (which I have not been immune from, I'll admit). In any event, thanks for understanding where i was coming from, even if not completely agreeing. You made some valid points. |
Floresmama | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:31 am  Jamie has made herself a villain and has no one to blame but herself. This is called reality TV and when the people signed on they knew it was for 24/7 exposure. For her to run around constantly and not reveal how she really feels for fear of it becoming a "storyline" what does she expect. I just hope she is strong enough to take the high percentage that she is going to get voted out by without being reduced to tears. Her makeup might run. |
Mystery | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:34 am  Maybe people don't want to reply and end up seeing themselves discussed in one of the Jennylynn79 "look at these lame BBFC people" posts on the Big Brother Blows board? |
Lilith | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:38 am  I have been annoyed with people labelling women as jealous or sexist because they dislike Jamie. I agree with most of what Jennylynn said. One thing I would like to add is that I watch tv to be entertained. I just don't find Jamie entertaining. The one who entertains me and makes me laugh is Eddie. I doubt I'd like to have him as my boyfriend or live with him, but at least he gives me something to watch. Everyone agreed to go on this show knowing full well that they would be watched on tv all the time, that makes them entertainers in my book. I don't think Jamie has fulfilled that responsibility. |
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:38 am  touche mystery. I admit, I'm a poster there, and I *do* find this place absurd sometimes, and I did post something about it...there are such separate lines here. The "nice" people that love Jamie and the "real" people that love Eddie. Debates stir up about one little comment...when really, nothing is all black and white. |
Is93267 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:42 am  Women are hard on women because they judge other women the same way they judge themselves. And women judge themselves much more harshly than they judge men. As Kurt Angle would say, "It's true. It's TRUE!" |
Latearriver | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:47 am  In the context of this show, I know Eddie and I have not been given the opportunity to know Jamie. From what I have seen, Jamie is the type of person I have always not liked--too quiet, rarely gives an opinion, seems to kiss-up to everyone. I can only base my opinions on the information I have been given by the HGs themselves. I do think the criticism of Jamie has been too harsh but this is not a general interest message board, it is for BB and that does make us concentrate on the HGs. Unfortuneately for Jamie, it seems that her actions give us more cause for comment than Josh or Curtis. A lot of us used to swear and talk like Eddie when we were younger and hopefully most of us outgrew it. Perhaps that is why Eddie is allowed more slack than Jamie. |
Casper | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:56 am  I live in Texas. Since I live in Texas does that mean I'm going to "vote" for G.W. Bush? If I don't vote Bush---does that make me no longer a Texan? And I feel strongly that Jamies qualities are far better than Eddies and am woman enough to say so. I've watch since day 1. Now that it's down to 1 woman and 3 guys (was 4) I made a statement to help keep Jamie in the house because she is a woman and to vote "trash mouth Eddie"(he's SO "groty"). And I got bashed for that. So I thought I need to reverify my "own" opinion. I have people in my family that have had limbs or parts of their body taken by diseases not only on the out side but on the inside and you don't see things like missing breast but it's still hard to deal with as far as having a relationship with someone. I have kept up with all the post, watch the live feed and watch all the shows and I still come to the same conclusion. Vote out Eddie, he "doesn't deserve it", and keep Jamie. Although I'm still having problems deciding who will win, Jamie or Curtis. But when it comes to "role models" Jamie is. Eddie is "NOT" a role model!!!! |
Adven39 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 10:58 am  Jennylynn79 and Snowgirl, I actually agree with you both - and if you've ever bumped into some of my previous posts in your cyber travels, I'm not the most diplomatic member of this board. Although all the HG's, in varying degrees, have taken their deserved, and undeserved, lumps from us, Jamie, it seems to me, more than any other HG, gets on people's nerves for a lot of petty, silly reasons and the animosity directed toward her is often out of all proportion to what she has actually done or said. George, Eddie and Karen, on the other hand, have distinct, extroverted personalities, and, as such, are lightning rods when it comes to provoking reactions from us. I don't always agree with those reactions, but at least I can understand where they originate. In Jmaie's case, I sense a level of hostility and spite that is not only difficult to understand, but tends to say more negative things about the poster than it does Jamie. In your case, Jennylynn79, I think you have offered an intelligent, even-handed explanation for your views on Jamie. I don't believe this makes you jealous of her or someone who is exhibiting some form of reverse sexism. On the other hand, I think Snowgirl's take on the majority of people who dislike Jamie is dead on. |
Jennylynn79 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:02 am  Casper, we all value different things. There are reasons to like or not like every houseguest without jealousy or being woman enough coming into the picture. |
Alimerz | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:02 am  Jamie is the epitome of the type of stepford behavior women were encouraged to display before the women's movement. Smile all the time, drift around and pose, but defintely don't ever have an opinion on anything or go out of your way to develop a personality. What turns me off about her is that she is doing this while competing for $500,000. Why should she be rewarded for sharing her personality for three months, a personality no more developed than that of a display store manequin? No way, man. I'd rather see the money go to any of the other houseguests or the f*ckin pug before I see it go to her. She was selected to entertain me. She has failed enormously. Actually, make HER pay US for having to look at her vacant stare for three months. W o r d. |
Nadi | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:10 am  I have seen the words like evil, sickening, vile and disgusting thrown around more by Jamie's defenders themselves than by her detractors. I have yet to read a single post here where someone uses one of those words to describe Jamie. From reading the posts of her defenders I would think that the majority of her critics are jealous, have no legitimate reasons and have lost all touch with reality. That isn't the case. Most of the posters who dislike Jamie have tried to present their viewpoint in a calm way. Many of them do have legitimate reasons for not liking her. Unfortunately too many people on here think that they are the experts on legitimacy. We posters have very little objectivity, yet we feel like we (and anyone who shares our viewpoints) are the only ones who are truly objective. Anyone who says that most of Jamie's detractors don't like her because they are jealous are insulting both the individual posters as well as women as a whole. I am a woman and I certainly believe that most women can make rational choices. |
Motoole | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:13 am  I feel that Josh is not being real, he's been just as secretive about himself as anyone else, yet we don't hear anything about it. Noone seems to have even noticed that he is constantly saying that he'll tell someone "later", or "after we're out of here I'll tell you". |
Adven39 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:19 am  Alimerz, I don't have your considerable expertise when it comes to the intent of the women's movement, but I thought the intent of any social liberation struggle was to do just that - liberate. Liberation refers to freedom to be whatever you choose/happen to be. I don't think it means females should now be pressured to conform to whatever your definition of the post-modern woman should be or that they are a "stepford" woman if they don't meet your standards. As for Jamie being selected to entertain you, you're wrong. She was selected to help CBS and Endemol make money. They do that by getting people to watch and talk about the show. Since you do both, you are indirectly helping CBS pay Jamie any money she might earn. Ironic, isn't it? |
Kuh | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:29 am  Here are my complaints about Eddie. Eddie is all talk, no action. I have read many posts on this board suggesting that Eddie has played the game and played it well. I have heard Eddie say he should win because he wants it the most. I have not, however, seen any evidence that Eddie has even attempted to play the game, unless napping could be considered a strategy. Eddie has napped his way through the last three months, it's that simple. While the other HGs did the work, Eddie took a powder. The game with the Trinitron could be used as an example of how Eddie has played the game all along. Curtis wanted the Trinitron, as did Eddie. Curtis took the time to observe, he even did some late nights with Josh. He was diligent and, in the end, was rewarded for his diligence. Eddie claimed he wanted the Trinitron, but unless he expected the answer to come to him in a dream during one of those long naps of his, he made no effort whatsoever to figure the riddle out. He seemed mildly peeved when Curtis won the TV and he even made a few remarks that would suggest a case of sour grapes. All talk, no action. Another example of Eddie's all talk no action strategy for winning: After Cassandra's banishment, Eddie remarked repeatedly that he would 'shake things up on Wednesday'. Wednesday came and went with nothing but a lame claim from Eddie that, from now on he will nominate strategically. All talk, no action. As far as Eddie's remarks about alcoholics and drug abusers and how he can't stand to see someone with two good legs wasting their life like that, Eddie drinks more than anyone in the house and Eddie has just slept away three months of his life. Instead of helping his fellow house mates, he complains about any work he must do. The kitchen work seems to be beneath him and is assigned as '' work. All talk, no action. The only thing Eddie really seems to excell at is passing gas. I can't shake the feeling (and this is my feeling, as I have no idea how Eddie's mind works) that Eddie resents Curtis and seems to think that things have come easily to him. If Eddie were a true thinking man, as he pretends to be, he would allow his mind to be flexible enough to see that Curtis is where he is because of hard work and determination. Eddie will probably win the game (not if I can help it), but let's not pretend he deserves it. That said, I do not think of Eddie as a horrible person. I actually kind of like the guy, I think he has a big heart and cares for his family, but he will get no where in life if he is coddled. He seems to think he's got everything figured out, when the truth is, he's much to learn. |
Katie | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:32 am  Yes Josh does. Actually I have heard a couple of them say that. Britt would say that. |
Adven39 | Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 11:41 am  Kuh, loved your post. I don't have anything against Eddie, either, but the "unless napping could be considered a strategy" and the "only thing Eddie really seems to excel at is passing gas" comments were priceless. |
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