Archive through September 02, 2000
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Archive through September 02, 2000
Ryn | Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 11:03 pm  I stated in another thread that I would post my opinions on how the board has changed over time. Unfortunatly time has run out on me tonight I WILL post my thoughts here tommorow. Anyone else that wants to throw in there thoughts before I get to it is more than welcome to |
Ryn | Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 09:09 am  ok - here is my feeble attempt - I am not really in the mood to type a ton. When Neil started this booard the discussions tended to analyse the set-up, the conditions. It was not as much a place to disect each houseguest. Very seldom were posters "mad" at one another and it seems that even when there was some dialogue between two posters it seldom escilated past a heated debate. It just seems to me that as time has gone on the day to day activities have been less discussed and each hg's personalities has been thoroughly examined. We have also seen an influx of people from other places (the board had over 7,000 unique IP hits yesterday, slightly less than Tuesday which as far as I know was an all-time high). More posters (2456 registered as of this moment) means more people commenting and the greater the chance of someone offending another. The HOUSE has also had an effect. BB has successfuly cranked up the stress level and we have seen our HG's in more stressful situations. Gone are the all night beer parties, now its forcing them to criticize one another. Also, the "bad guys" are gone, when Mega was in, he had very few defenders and so the board looked like most people were all on the same side. These last two weeks the board has been split in several ways and everyone is defending their favorite HG or attacking another. There is no Will, Jordan, or Karen to pick on so if you criticize someone chances are you will tick off many other people. I don't see things getting any better. They might have improved a bit if George had been booted because his tacktics seem to piss off the most people (starting to remind you of Rich?? He may not come across as sharp, but he also has help on the outside.). Please feel free to tell me if you think i am way off base, or if you agree, or even if you think this was a boring, pointless post!!! thanks, ryn |
Admin | Friday, September 01, 2000 - 07:44 pm  Ryn: I think you have good observations and good explanations of those observations. I do believe that the way the discussions have been going is very reflective of how we have 'grown' or 'adapted' to the show. In the beginning we didn't know the characters, so we could not disect them. Now that we do know them, we are more free to analyze them and pass judgement. We also start to decide who we like and who we don't, so we naturally pick favourites and take sides. I think all this makes for good discussion. Us, of the 'old school' miss the old conversations, but maybe only because they were exciting due to the whole newness of the whole situation. Now the 'newness' excitement is gone and we must come up with something else to stimulate. We can't help but fall short. It's like a cheap drug, the first hit is the best and then we forever try to achieve that same high without ever finding it. I guess I'm saying that things are different, but that's okay, they're still good. Just my 2 cents. |
Chris | Friday, September 01, 2000 - 07:56 pm  Do you think we will all just grow more and more intollerant of others opinions? There are people here who have opposite opinions from me, and I have accepted that, and no longer try to make them see my way. But they do not hesitate at the chance to attack me and my positions if I dare to express them to anyone else. It's gotten to the point that I really hesitate to post anything controversial. I thought the point was to make other people think, not force them to agree. Maybe I'll just go back to joking about everything that doesn't mean anything... |
Jaybear810 | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 05:33 am  All good points Ryn and Admin (good name for a rock band--btw). I would also add that the infusion of such knee-jerk subjects as racism and homophobia have hurt the overall civility of the discussion. There are those who have determined that they and only they have the right to determine if someone is homophobic, to take one example, and they flame anyone who dares suggest that they may be taking things too seriously. Also, frankly, the house is, as feared, getting rather dull with the ouster of each controversial participant. There just isn't much to talk about, which is why things appear to have to degenerated into twenty threads about the latest $10K-run away offer and a hundred I-Hate-That-Homophobe-George-and-Wish-He-and-His-Ugly-Wife-Were-Dead topics. I hope to see things pick up but am not optomistic. Perhaps it's time to move on to a board on the upcoming Dr. Laura Show. |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 10:10 am  Jaybear810: You are the one I was talking about. You refuse to let me have my own opinion, or to state it to anyone else. You flame me if I dare even open my mouth and express myself. I accept that YOU do not agree with me, and do not run around chasing you down and flaming me everytime you say something I disagree with. You could at least show me the same respect. |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 10:36 am  Jaybear810: I also do not appreciate your misrepresenting what I said everywhere. We have been over this twice before, but since you still LIE about what I said, let me REPEAT it: I did NOT say that only gays have the right to define homophobia. I said that I find it interesting that SOME (meaning YOU) straight people think they have the sole right to redefine the term for everyone else, especially since they (YOU) have never felt the oppression of homophobia yourself. Quit lying about what I said. YOU DISGUST ME! |
Admin | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 11:39 am  Immature people do not respect the opinions of others. |
Yankee | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 11:54 am  ADMIN - I agree with your analysis about the board. One thing you failed to mention which is a problem for my posts is that my opinion is always followed by one or more attacks on my reason for, lack of information on the subject, asking for proof and verification of the views stated, calling me a downright liar, accusing me of not reading correctly, of being stupid or biased, and someone wanting to make a racial issue of what I said, the latter being the worst and most prevalent. I feel I have to defend my every word, which is not fair to my time, your time, the board's time and space, therefore I don't do it. I tell them no sense arguing with me as my mind is set and that I won't waste my time defending my opinion. There are other posters who catching my more nasty flack than I and they spend a lot of time and space explaining why they posted such and such. I find myself sometimes defending the "new chicken in the yard" and apposing the pecking order with a suportive comment to their post, which is also time and space consuming. I've stopped that. I will not be pressured by these attacks to withdraw and I try to ignore them. One really has to search among the trash to get to a valid, intelligent, informative opinion. I'd like to be part of the solution and not the problem so whatever rules are set most of us will adhere to. We respect this board and appreciate the opportunity to post our opinions and view others' opinions. However, it is getting to be a challenge to contend with the opposers and their confrontations. Enough of my complaining, you get the picture. SOLUTION? Perhaps ordering no other poster allowed to attack another opinion or the poster, and that only opinions will be accepted. The rest will eventually be deleted. The attacks seem to be a form of FILLIBUSTERING and AND DOMINATING THE BOARD FOR THEIR VIEWS TO BE THE ONLY CREDIBLE ONES imo. If we holler "Monitor" we are attacked for that too. I've noticed you already deleting some but this has to be a monumental task. I understand and appreciate your challenge to monitor the boards. Whatever steps you take will be supported by your most grateful and loyal supporters, me included. Thanks for allowing us to be here. GOOD LUCK AND SUCCESS. |
Zappre | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 12:28 pm  Ryn and Admin, thanks for this "State of the Board" subject. We are almost in need of another board to discuss and analyze the comings and goings of this board, just as this board analyzes the comings and goings of the house. Generally, I would agree that there will be more disagreements about houseguests as the less controversial ones go. That's par for the course. What makes if very much like the house is that the conduct of posters often mirrors that of the houseguests, at least with respect to human foibles and vulnerabilities. I've noticed 2 distinct types of posters that interest me, though i'm sure there are many more. There are those who just want an honest interaction with others about the show they love, or love to hate. They want to talk, and they want to listen. Then there are those who are so very clearly working out their own hostilities and inadequacy issues through the board, just as Will did in the house. They stand out because they can be counted on to consistently and predictably lash out at someone, whether they be a houseguest, another poster, or an entire societal group. I am not surprising anyone when I point out the the most notorious among them are Remus, Whatever, and the champeen of the board, Jaybear810. Just scour the board and the psychosis unfolds. Will attacked without interest in the others' opinion and then accused people of not listening to him. Will made unfounded assumptions about other people and then accused them of misjudging him. He claimed to be "keeping it real" when in fact, almost every action was a cry for help. When he yelled "YES!" to the announcement of his banishment, did anyone really think he was happy? He was so transparently showing glee for fear of showing the actual pain of rejection and failure. There was alot of hurt there. We do recall his superb rationalizations: "it worked out just as I planned" and "being first out is a victory". Is there any other explanation other than that this is a guy in extreme pain with mortal fear of exposing it to anyone, including most importantly, himself. Well, now we have the 3 notorious posters - "Will's" in sheeps clothing, for lack of a more poetic characterization (i'm no Yeats nor Putergirl for that matter). They are not the only 3, just the most acutely apt to project pain. Yes, this is projections. The state of being pissed of at others, when in fact, the very trait that ires you in the other is that which resides in yourself...that's projections. Will mastered it for his own perceived need for self-protection from vulnerability. Is there any doubt that when Jaybear810 gleefully says he hopes George's homophobic (though more ignorant than malicious) comments "(paraphrased) push a gay teenager back into the closet", he is projecting his own pain? When he uses comments like Brit the Twitt and Cass the Complainer (or something to that effect), can such venemous feelings towards people he doesn't even know reflect anything other than self-hatred? Yes, Jaybear, I don't know you either, but some human behaviour lays out a predicatable pattern, one which you and the others are following with startling consistency. I believe I know these traits because I possess them myself, as does everyone else, to varying degrees of illness. Having projected my own pain and insecurity on others, "I know one when I see one". I'm trying to be a better person. I've come to the realization that i'm responsible for ME, and nobody else. Harping on the perceived inadequacies of others only serves as a diversion from dealing with one's own. I believe its widely referred to as "Keeping one's own house in order, before trying to arrange that of another". This note is here not as criticism, though i'm sure it will be taken as such by people who are yet unable to perceive comments contradictory to their view as anything other than attacks. I say these things because every adolescent insult (Twitt) is another ball of pain jumping off my screen and it disturbs me. It hurts the person uttering it and it, bit by bit, erodes the general civility and health of the discourse. In sum, I am attempting to use this BB experience to view human conduct, see it in myself, and learn. If my comments are taken as they were intented - to help - then maybe i've helped someone. Either way, there can be no doubt that Neil and Ryn have blessed us with our own BB experience, for which I will be eternally grateful. Good on ya, guys. |
Latearriver | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 12:58 pm  I have been a participant for the last 3 years on a soap opera board. One of the things the longtimers on the board have noticed is that as the show got worse, so did the posters conduct towards other posters. I bring this up because it seems a lot of people feel that BB has become a boring show. With not much action, we seem forced to overanalyze what little information is coming out of the house. If BB would do something to rile up the HGs, our attention would be focused more on that than on each other. I really enjoy this board. Few of my friends watch the show and it is fun to have a place to come to where I can see what other people think. |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 01:08 pm  Latearriver: The problem here is that everyone seems to have their own favorite HG. When that HG is nominated, some people become very hostile when anything is said against that HG. Cassandra was my favorite, but I did not run around attacking everyone who was saying negative things about her. I did post a couple of times suggesting that we did not hear the whole RR comversation, etc. A few individuals have gone after anyone who have said anything negative about Brittany or George, villifying anyone who dared to disagree with them (though they post plenty of negative comments themselves about other HGs). I think that is very childish. We should be using this forum to offer opinions, learn from each other, get people to think, but not to demand strict agreement with our own opinions. Some people just can't handle that, though. |
Ccc | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 01:11 pm  Zappre, good addition to Ryn and Admin. I share the same reason as you for this BB experience. I also think there's a 3rd type. The person who had a favorite coming in (maybe they're friends or relatives) and will defend that houseguest no matter what it takes - and some go to extremes to do so. I have noticed that in the beginning, there seemed to be a lot more humorous and entertaining exchanges. My personal life was on hold! Now, I have to wade through so much hate and vindictiveness that participating is not much fun. [I can't single posters out, their names are usually covered by my BBlive feed. I have to move it to see who I'm responding to!] Each time I check in (it isn't constant anymore), I hope to see new threads that have reason to them. I'm afraid some of the best posters may have become bored with the apparent influx of unreasonableness, and perhaps the lack of day-to-day excitement on the show - and simply stopped checking in or posting. I'm an optomist and hope that the hate-slingers will get bored if WE DON'T ENGAGE THEM and they'll leave. Just respond reasonably or ignore them, but don't stoop to their level. Maybe they'll even learn something..... |
Ccc | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 01:14 pm  Chris, that last post of yours was very good. |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 01:21 pm  Ccc: Yes, it used to be alot more FUN. But it is hard to be funny when you are attacked for everything you say, and your words are being misconstrued. Yes, we don't always get the true meaning when we read something (I've been guilty of that a few times myself), but to purposefully try and make this board a more hatefull place is just plain sad. I enjoy saying things that some people may consider "hate", but it is intended more "tongue in cheek". I guess most people don't see that, or just don't want to. I wish we could all go back to just having fun here. |
Latearriver | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 01:26 pm  Chris, welcome to the world of a soap board. Saying anything against someone else's favorite is like blood to a shark. People seem to be nastier on a message board than they would ever dream of being in real life (even Eddie--and that was a joke, he is my favorite) I watch a lot of CNBC and Fox and those shows have debates that end up sounding a lot like here, you couldn't change someone's mind no matter what. It seems to be something in a human's nature. Those of us who are not as emotionally invested in a particular HG find it easier to debate because without that emotional investment, we can be more open-minded. I agree with you totally that it would be wonderful if we could agree to disagree and debate our various positions. |
Zappre | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:01 pm  The only reason for an attack on someone else's position regarding a HG, or on HG's themselves, is that the attacker's own insecurities are tweaked. An attack on another is a striving to believe oneself to be "better than...". Calling Britt a Twitt means i'm not, so yay for me. I have not once been offended or hurt by anything anyone has said on this board. At most I have been sad for the person wrapped in hate. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything so I can't be hurt by their rejection of my opinion. And its just that...an opinion. As I learn and grow, it will change. Simply, the notion of taking personally, and being hurt a comment by a person I don't know, and who doesn't know me, is not a product of their action, but of my issues. You will see how true this is when you see someone on this board attempt to ridicule me for my "issues", because they'd rather deal with mine than honestly face their own. |
Admin | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:21 pm  I will repeat: The moderators and I try hard to keep the board clean and keep an eye on problem posters. We need your help to report problems posters and spam. Report in the appropriate areas. We have been emailed/messaged/told about many different people that pose problems, but others don't always agree. Unless we see for ourselves the havoc left by a bad poster, we can't remove his/her account in good conscience. Should we start an area, where people can vote to ban a user? Once someone gets 50 votes, or whatever, we ban him? |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:35 pm  Zappre: I have fun using names like The Green Virgin, etc, but only because that person has made so much of the green hair and the fact that she is a virgin. It's not so much an attack, as just pointing out the obvious. She WANTS everyone to notice her for her green hair, and wants the world to know that she considers herself a virgin. It doesn't mean I don't consider myself "better than her" (but it is true that I don't run around making people look at me that way . I think we have a right to get annoyed with these people, and dislike them. That is part of the show. And part of what they get for having the chance to win half a million dollars. Part of the game is to keep from acting in a way that makes people hate you and vote you off. But to attack anyone for liking someone (or disliking someone) on the show is crossing the line. That implies that only one opinion can be tollerated. And we also need to give the HGs the benefit of the doubt, that once they leave the house they will not act as they did inside. At least we HOPE not! |
Chris | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:38 pm  Admin: would we then have to put up with people campaigning in all the threads to have so-and-so banished? {yuck} I don't know what the answer is, and it is YOUR board. {deftly passing the buck...} |
Jaybear810 | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:40 pm  I agree that responding to personal attacks is counterproductive. Nevertheless, in the context of this particular topic, it seems appropriate to point out that I have not singled out anyone by name, yet have been attacked by Zappre and Chris, who has consistently demonstrated intolerance for any other point of view than his own. Yet it is I who am guilty of flaming. Sure. |
Zappre | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:53 pm  Admin: Censorship is not the answer. A misguided opinion is not by its very nature, an invalid one. I learn as much from the bad as i do from the good. Aside from that, the practicality of it is daunting...the banned person will sign back in under a new name. Also, you do enough. Chris: I respect your opinion. Do you ever wonder why some stranger in California is able to get under your skin so much that you feel compelled to if not attack, then ridicule her. How does that judgment of her serve your best interest? I repeat that it only bothers us if it is something in ourselves that we see in others. When you say: "It doesn't mean I consider myself "better than her" (but it is true that I don't run around making people look at me that way)", you answer your own question. I'm not better than her but aren't I, though? It's about you, not her. And there's nothing wrong with you. It's entirely human to do this. Learning comes from realize why we truly do things so we can learn about and accept ourselves more fully. Once we accept ourselves, we feel no need to ridicule others because we see their foibles as part of their journey, just as we have struggled through our own. Boring speech over. |
Eddieluver | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 02:56 pm  I would just like to state on here that I was appalled by the behavior exhibited by people on this board the night Britt left. MOST of the people were upset and came on here to talk about it. We weren't allowed to do that but instead attacked and then when we retaliated these people got all huffy. It was like fighting with two-year olds in a sand box but I was very sad. I liked Britt a lot and the way she went out well it upset me. I wasn't allowed to come on here and talk about it because others were too biased and kept slamming her. I don't know why I was so upset but maybe it's because this is real and it's real feelings and those can effect someone no matter what. I let others have their opinions but I think that night it all got out of hand and when I was attacked I was completely upset that I couldn't even get that out. I don't know but two people that truly watches this show in real life and I actually felt a little bit of comrade on here until that night. Now, it's almost an all out war over the whole Rockford problem and everything else in the house. It's sad that we as adults can't come on this board and voice our opinions anymore over just about anything. Another thing that I saw is every time we posted something we were upset about regarding Britt there would be a few people that would just sit there and be cruel about the whole situation. YOU know who you are so I won't even go there. I would like to say that when everyone was putting hate threads about George on here before that night I didn't bite once. I was respectful of those threads and stayed out of them. Yet, the second others including me wanted to mourn Britt leaving it was almost as if we weren't allowed to do that. I think that's just really petty and I am truly sickened by the whole situation. The few people that watch it in real life did mourn with me and even though one of them didn't like Britt they understood how I felt. Too bad the internet doesn't have the same kind of people. Too bad we can't have feelings in these boards anymore without being attacked. |
Zappre | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 03:00 pm  Jaybear810: I'm so sorry that, as I suspected you would in my earlier post, you chose to perceive attack where none exists. I name you because you seem more hurting than most, by virtue of the repeated sad tone of your posts. Whether you accept my non-malicious intention is up to you. |
Rollerboy | Saturday, September 02, 2000 - 03:01 pm  I think we might be overstating the impact of many of these 'discussions'(more like full contact opinion stating in many instances). Do you really think most of the fans are serious about the statements they make? I don't really know. I've always assumed it was just role playing on the part of most. I mean, if 'switchblade' responds to an outrageous expression by 'sledgehammer' in kind what's the harm. As long as it's within the parameters outlined in header warning. Who would allow their feelings to be hurt by the statements of other fans on this board? The board has changed in tone somewhat, but I think that is a function of the sheer volume of postings. I don't know, just my opinion. |
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