OT: What is the deal with UpTalking?
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OT: What is the deal with UpTalking?
Bubbaesq | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:45 pm  Janine: congratulations...you make twice as much as Delia and have more education than George...do you feel better now that we all know this? |
Janine | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 01:55 pm  no....it is mystery that has as much education as george....haha |
Jombie | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 02:01 pm  Gomer, I hadn't thought of there being a difference between them, but you are right... Cool man, I can dig it...;) |
Icarus | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 02:17 pm  My favorite Britt upspeak quote: "Like...I don't know...like...if they LIKE me, you know?" |
Gomer | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 02:26 pm  Jombie Right on brotha Delia-those were my original comebacks to people using "upspeak"first time I heard it. Speaker talking about an incident at an event they attended-"You know we were at this party?" Me- "I don't know if it was a party,I wasn't there." And I still think it's a poor way to present yourself to the public.Brittany has be a linguistic juggler to be a salesman (manufacturers rep to her company)-and BTW-REALLY digressing here-when did all these job titles start appearing all over the place? Asst manager at Mcd's (he doesn't have to sweep the floors-just flip) |
Anothermother | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 02:33 pm  I don't know how common this is, but when I am around someone who has a speech variance, e.g., upspeak, southern accent, etc., I start using their speech patterns. As an educated person who doesn't speak like this when I'm just having a conversation with my husband or family, I don't have a good explanation for it. I had a good friend from Texas, and my kids used to tease me that when I was around her I would pick up her drawl within the half-an-hour. I am musical and observant--don't know if having a keen ear has anything to do with it. Perhaps the closeness of the house and Britt's strong personality caused some of the others to adopt her speech patterns. I notice Cass and Jamie (only occasionally) talk in "Brit-speak." It could be worse--they could have adopted George's speech idiosyncracies! |
Blitzkitsch | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 03:30 pm  Janine-- I agree with you, you do come across as uneducated; I would be very surprised to find that you were more educated than George, for example. Good post. Delia-- I have noticed Jaime's 'uptalking' in particular, but didn't know what it was called. It annoys me, mostly because saying everything in a questioning tone comes across to me as somewhat passive, as if she were seeking validation for her statements/opinions. |
Tishala | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 09:54 pm  Two very quick points: "upspeak" is a gendered behavior--feminist linguists have written about it LOTS in the past 30 years. It can be evidenced even in small girls as they become inculcated into the cultural constructs of "appropriate" femininity. [Deborah Tannen, I believe, is a good source for this, but I may be mistaken.] Re: "Blackspeak" or "Ebonics"--again, I turn to linguists, since they actually study language...linguists term this (alternately) African American Vernacular English or African American English (AAVE or AAE--the second term is now the preferred term, I think). Linguists argue that speech variances have occurred in AAE since the beginnings of slavery and they new forms of it ("you know what I'm saying" habitually entering the conversation, the creation of new words, etc) are attributable to the social and economic forces of slavery and later segregation, whether self-imposed or as forms of de jure racism. Linguists have literary representations of AAE dating to the middle 18th century in the US (you can also see it in Melville's "The Confidence Man" for an inexact middle 19th Century American representation--the 18th century sources are plays). So it is NOT a new phenomenon nor is it something that Louis Armstrong, to choose one earlier example, would have disparaged, in all probability. Be bop USED to be a "nonsense" word that riffed on the rhythmic patterns Parker and Gillespie: it is now an acceptable expressive term that has entered the language; "hep" is the same; so is "dis", which is now only said by white people in their 40s (j/k) but began in rap. Best, Tisha |
Rooting4curtis | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:18 pm  Fantastic!! I'm so pleased that the conversation here has finally drifted into an area that has me greatly concerned, namely, the deterioration of the English language. Please don't attack me for posting this message, but I would like to respectfully ask that those who have been adding interesting bits to this informative thread list some of the often-misspelled and/or mis-used words that are particularly offensive to obsessive-compulsive anal-retentive types like myself. (Note: this thread is remarkably error-free; the errors to which I refer can be found in many, many other threads and in almost all web-sites on the 'net. I'll start with my "favorite" transgression: "prolly" is NOT a word; the word is "probably" Please, everyone, feel free to add more!
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Hokum | Sunday, September 10, 2000 - 10:31 pm  You're prolly right Rooting4curtis. *chuckle* Sorry, I couldn't resist. Actually, a lot of what you see on the boards is internet speak. I don't know a thing about uptalking. This is a new phrase to me. |
Delia | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:13 am  Rooting4Curtis wrote: I'm so pleased that the conversation here has finally drifted into an area that has me greatly concerned, namely, the deterioration of the English language. Hello Rooting: I am deeply concerned about the deterioration of the English language as well, which is why I have written the threads above. Many other people do indeed share our concern. In fact, I believe it was on my local NPR (National Public Radio) member station that I heard a program about this last week. On the program, I heard one guest say that just because many people mispronounce the word "nuclear" (they say "nuculer") that the word is going to be changed to "nuculer" (the mistake). Isn't that intelligent thinking! To me, we have two different "schools" of language in the States. We have the corporate/media/politicians school, and then we have the mall speak/uptalking school. We've already talked about the latter on here, but not the former. With the corporate/media/politicians school, I get so tired of hearing the following words used as often as possible by anyone near a microphone: impact, significant, dramatic, riveting, compelling and the often needlessly used and misused phrase "if you will." "If you will" is often used at the very end of a sentence, just as a "filler" it seems. For example, a reporter will ask: "Mr. Smith, what is the impact of BigBrother on the viewing public, if you will?" (Well, the public is viewing BB so "if you will" is not needed there). Mr. Smith responds: "I think BB has a dramatically significant impact on the public, if you will." At this point, I change the channel and try to find a station where someone is not saying the words: impact, significant, dramatic, and the phrase "if-you-will" every-other-word. It's as if the corporate/media/politicians crowd strive to use "their" language as often as we have heard "like" and "or whatever" from Brittany and other mall speakers/uptalkers. These are my thoughts on this. Hope this helps. Delia |
Ryn | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:20 am  ok - this is getting WAAAYYY OT - and I know it was posted that way. I am moving it to "other discussions" within this area (BB USA) |
Ryn | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:23 am  There - moved - and I posted on the other area where to find this. |
Tishala | Monday, September 11, 2000 - 12:45 am  Delia and Rooting, I received a Masters degree in English and part of my responsibility in getting that degree was to teach freshman composition in a rather prestigious university, and I agree that there has been a deterioration in the way we communicate, but I think this is primarily a problem of wordiness in written speech rather than the ability to express oneself. I remember being disheartened at the inability to write without jargon, euphemism, and slang in papers and my discomfort in telling people that, popular music be damned, there is a difference between "a female" and a "woman." Nonetheless, I wonder if all this brouhaha over the deterioration of language isn't just another problem to paper over discomfort with social change. The rate of literacy is the highest it has ever been (only 46 years ago, for example, Brown v. the Board of Education had to eradicate an institutional inequality in educational practices; the rate of women's literacy is higher than ever, etc); additionally, people who had been relegated to the sidelines of American culture have now become somewhat mainstream. I am sure that people believed the "newspeak" of bebop would lead to the death of English, then rock and roll, and then rap. English, unlike French or Spanish, lacks a "governing body" so the changes in English can occur rapidly. Indeed, the closest thing English has to a governing body, the editors of the OED (Oxford English Dictionary) have now decided that it is OK to split infinitives precisely because it is such a standard practice in English anyhow. I still remember a professor bemoaning *that* as the absolute death of English (and, indeed, Spanish language purists have decried the elimination of the "rr" and "ll" as letters because it "Anglicizes" Spanish too much; the French government attempts to eradicate/police words that are insufficiently "French" and, in fact, would not sponsor the film "La Heine" a few years ago for the best foreign picture Oscar because it contained too much unofficial/"youth" French). English cannot and should not enact similar measures because English, as a hybrid of other languages, was born of the vitality of that hybrid status. Our language, like it or not, is about the impact of spoken immediacy, not the delayed possibility of writing. Finally, I would ask rhetorically where we go if we want to "improve" English. Do we return to Shakespearean English and return to "thee" and "thou"? Do we use the diction of Keats instead? Or Whitman? These choices are wholly arbitrary and wholly insufficient. I frankly prefer a language that might occasionally cause me unrest rather than one that provides me with comfort, if only because that unrest forces me to remain constantly aware of the many possibilities of language as a representational strategy and how new words, denotations, and connotations help me to create an ever-more precise (or not) mode of communication. Best Tisha |
Notbored | Tuesday, September 12, 2000 - 01:28 pm  Delia: "trailer trash" What does that mean? J Just so that you know, most people who live in "trailers" and those who sell them now call them modular homes. I live in a modular home. I chose this because it is the best value for me at this time. I get much more for my money than I would with renting. We can call ourselves "trailer trash" but we get a little offended when someone else does. J As to the "upspeaking", I have a degree, a fairly decent job and three children in college. We all speak fairly well but are not above "upspeaking" at times when we are all together and enjoying each other's company. I think that is what is going on in the BB house. These people have gotten comfortable with each other and usually use upspeak when they are having a good time. I don't believe any of them use it all the time. |
Delia | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 01:55 pm  Notbored: What does “trailer trash” mean to you?...since you and your friends use it amongst yourselves. Often the term “trailer trash” denotes a person with a lack of intelligence. One obvious example of this can be seen seasonally when tornadoes rip through Kansas and the midwest and destroys 1000s of “trailers” or “mobile homes” or “modular homes.” (Call them what you prefer). Those “trailer park” residents who survived the tornado and its destruction go out and buy yet another trailer, mobile home or modular home and plop it right down in the same area where their former trailer home was destroyed. They know full well that a tornado will be coming through that area once again and most likely will wipe them out yet again. This shows a blatant lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills. It’s as stupid as people who insist on building a home in a flood plain. That’s what I refer to as “trailer trash.” I use the word “trailer trash” loosely. The bottom line is blatant stupidity. Although I’m a strong proponent of good, high quality education, having a degree really has nothing to do with uptalking. As I’ve said, there are school teacher and other degreed individuals whom I’ve heard uptalking and using mall speak. They’ve just picked it up from hearing it and/or think that’s the new fad way of talking and they want to “fit in” so they start talking that way. I find it appalling because teachers are supposed to be setting an example of excellence. Hope this helps. Delia |
Notbored | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 05:30 pm  Delia: When we say "trailer trash" we are making fun of the people who think we are blatantly stupid. I'm a little curious here, do you feel that people who live in California near the fault lines are blatantly stupid? Also, are the people who choose to live along the coasts where hurricanes come along and wipe out entire communities blatantly stupid? I will leave your thread to the intelligent among you who are financially able to pay 3 to 4 times as much for a home as I. One more thing for you to think about. Has it crossed your mind that tornadoes tear up everything in their way? Mobile home courts just get shown on the news more often. It makes people who don't live in them feel superior. :-) |
Sara | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 08:02 pm  Notbored, I would add to your fault line example, people who live on the NC coast, pay many hundreds of thousands of dollars for their homes, have them destroyed by hurricanes (sometimes on an annual basis), and then rebuild them on the very same lots. I guess, according to Delia, they're not stupid because they're upper-middle class, and they have lots of disposable income. The term "trailer trash" is extremely offensive and no amount of "explanation" can detract from use of such an offensive term. Where one chooses to live is a life-style choice. It is NOT an indication of how much common sense one possesses, or one's intelligence quotient. BTW, I happen to live in a house that I own. I just find Delia's bigotry and lack of sensitivity utterly repugnant. |
Notbored | Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 08:40 pm  Thank you for your support Sara. I think you got my point. While I don't care for George's antics in the RR, I feel that Delia's "trailer trash" statements are just as bigoted. The fact that she states it so eloquently does not hide the fact that she, like George, can make prejudicial statements. Again thanks. |
Bad_Murtle | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 01:36 pm  1. thee and thou: it's prolly more democratic to use "you" instead, like, you know, when Geo. Washington refused to bow with foreign ambassadors, but instead shook hands. Actually I think it was some other early prez, since it took place in the White House. Anyway, even though "you" is the formal, not the familiar, it's the same idea of levelling. Using "you" for everyone is like calling everyone "mr." and "ms./mrs./miss," a sign or respect. 2. prolly. That's a good abbreviation! Depending on technology & fashion, abbrev.'s are sometimes considered a sign of class. Back in the manuscript days of the late middle ages, and into print days, it was considered unintelligent to spell out long words, as we'd think if we saw someone counting on hir fingers. Anyway, "prolly" is not only shorter, it doesn't pretzel up my fingers on the keyboard like "probably." Try it without touch-typing! 3. upspeak. I guess, like it might be insecurity, or asking for validation, or just that you're listening. But my theory is that it expresses the feeling that the world is absurd. Or whatever it is that makes teenage girls laugh so much. That said, I'd like to have available a "thou" intimate familiar, think prolly sounds dumb, and find upspeak annoying after a few sentences. |
Eddieluver | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 02:14 pm  Delia: Do you have a degree in psychology? What makes you the perfect expert on everything and why in the world do you sign your name EVERY time? That is also very unintelliegent since your handle is always listed by the side of your message already. Do you think someone is going to beg for your autograph one day? Trailer trash? You are truly the most stuck-up poster I have every come across. Here's something that perhaps your brain will or will not be able to handle. I lived in Indiana growing up and no sweetheart not in a trailer but a big three story house with a door and everything. I do say whatever and like at times, I am 4.0 student, work for the most prestiguous law firm in Cleveland, Ohio, and yes I'm sorry to tell you but I am young since I'm sure you'll comment on that as well. You are so rude! Who do you think you are? I also have a VERY professional attitude but outside of the office when I'm talking to my college buddies and if we're not having a serious conversation I will say whatever or like at times. I'm having fun and they take it as such. I think the people in the BB house also take it like that. YOU my dear read too much into everything. Your extra tidbits of information that you always throw in your posts show you TRY way too hard as well. If you want to be so impressive go to the intellectual boards and stay away from the petty childlike ones. Obviously, you're too good for us. If you're serious all the time like you are on this board, then lord knows your life must be a real snooze. EddieLuver *laughs* |
Katraxn | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 03:57 pm  Reading some of the posts here has left me thinking that elitist snobbery is alive and well an ugly. Jean Jordan in Star Tribune equated the masses with gravel and said that the true gems will show themselves and thus gain her attention and possible respect. She lost my respect with her commentary. Geesh who cares as long as we communicate? I mean like ain't our DNA like 99.9999979% common? |
Eddieluver | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 04:06 pm  Kat: There are some people in this world that doesn't understand the most intelligent words in the english language. These two words are what SHOULD make up our world but instead we have a world of distasteful people, ones that put down others to make themselves feel better, and that's sad because all it takes is a little "human kindness" to make this world a better place. My motto is the golden rule and it has been ever since I was a little girl. I can't fathom why someone would come on here and talk about others being "trailer trash". I would rather have the intelligence level of a flea than be associated with someone such as that. |
Katraxn | Friday, September 15, 2000 - 04:28 pm  LOL Eddieluver, even though i use Frontline TopSpot to spare my pets the aggravation of flea bites I wholeheartedly agree! |
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