Archive through September 23, 2000
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Eddie's Desire to "Clothesline" Jamie--Unacceptable?:
Archive through September 23, 2000
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 05:41 pm  The only FACT here is that Eddie made a comment to Jamie about clotheslining her. That is the ONLY FACT. We KNOW nothing else. To read more into it is going into the realm of assumption. Whatever: "Physical aggression towards weaker females is both cowardly and a sign of hostility and dominance. " In relation to the topic of this thread, which is what you are referring to is it not? I am looking at how your statement relates to this topic and the FACTS that we have at hand.... You still seem to be insinuating that Eddie was aggressive and being hostile towards Jamie with THAT statement. Do we know this to be a fact? NO WE DON'T. Is that what you are saying, that he was being aggressive and hostile during that incident? IMO, Physical aggression towards ANY weaker individual is a sign of hostility and dominance. How does your comment relate to the clothesline incident? If you are saying that it relates to it because Jamie is female, then are you saying that Eddie is hostile and aggressive? Whatever: "Further, you state "Brittany would jump on Eddie, tease him and goad him on." But you conveniently ignore her admonishments to Eddie, requests that he stop, and remorse at the bruises and contusions she unwillingly received. Jamie never engaged in such activity, while you infer that both did, "especially Brittany". Your ridiculous arguments are severely flawed." Be very careful as to what you say Whatever, and how you say it. I didn't convienienly ignore anything. You are again wrong, if memory serves me correctly, Jamie was being tossed around in the mud and laughing on one occassion, and Brittany did constantly do those things, even after she complained about the bruising. Whatever: Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 04:01 pm "I stated: "The fact is, based upon Eddie's observed behavior, it is possible, and, in fact, more reasonable than not, to make conclusions that, yes, it is highly unacceptable." That remains completely true. It is completely undeniable, except to those in denial." Now I am in DENIAL because I have a different viewpoint from yours? Huh? LOL! Whatever: Thursday, September 21, 2000 - 08:58 pm " It's only fun when both participants consent and are enjoying themselves that it is actually "fun". Otherwise, it's harassment, at best, or, quite possibly in many cases, something worse. Apparently, a lot of you Eddie supporters are from somewhat dysfunctional family environments. Such behavior is not "play"." Whatever, notice also that you failed to comment or APOLOGIZE in your post, as to your comment that I and some other posters on this board must come from DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILIES. Is that a FACT that you KNOW too? Do you KNOW me and others on this board personally? Creamynougat: "As for your other points, you've taken liberties with quoting out of context so I won't get into all that" I posted what you said, but no....we won't get into it....LOL. Creamynougat: "Very easy. The fact that Eddie did not carry out his "threats" does not excuse his behavior (as someone earlier argued). What difference does it make whether Eddie threatened bodily harm with his bare hands or a loaded gun? Either could be lethal. My point was to amplify the inherent wrongness of his actions by replacing his bare hands with a different -- perhaps more threatening -- weapon. It's just a matter of degree." It would make a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE if in fact we knew for sure if it was a THREAT or NOT. That is one big difference. I am also picturing the scenario of Eddie pointing a loaded gun to Jamie's head, he says, "I wish I could blow your head off right now." Chilling isn't it? Now compare that to the comment that Eddie has made about "clotheslining" Jamie. There is A BIG DIFFERENCE to me. A big matter of degree. "The fact that Eddie did not carry out his "threats" does not excuse his behavior (as someone earlier argued)" His behavior isn't EXCUSABLE to you because it bothered you. To me and others, it wasn't a big deal. I would have just said that it bothered me, not make referrences to gun violence and the like. "I did not read Katie's statement to mean that she believed that Eddie was seriously intending to physically harm Jamie, but I could be wrong." If Katie and others,(like yourself?) never intended to mean that Eddie was seriously intending to physically harm Jamie then why all of the references to violence, abuse, hostility and the start of this thread to begin with? If Eddie never intended to hurt Jamie then this whole thread was ridiculous, no? BTW, if memory also serves me correctly, Josh was laughing too. The FACTS still stand that we know what he said and that's all. |
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 05:58 pm  Ladykat, Yes FREEDOM OF SPEECH RULES. But not when you (not you personally) begin to accuse other people on this board of coming from dysfunctional homes because they don't see any serious problem with the comment. It also goes overboard when Eddie and his behavior is labeled as aggressive, hostile, and all things relating to violence- when we DON'T know if that's TRUE. It's bordering on libel. That is now the debate here. Bigbroho-please be kinder. We aren't here to call each other names. |
Whatever | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:09 pm  Jujubean- "Is that what you are saying, that he was being aggressive and hostile during that incident?" Yes. Further, whether intended as a threat or not, it is dysfunctional, unacceptable behavior. It really is taking you a long time to comprehend earlier statements which were made very clearly. Your credibility deteriorates as you criticize and disagree with ideas you demonstrate you do not understand. |
Katie | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:14 pm  Jamie out-weighs Eddie by at LEAST a leg and could probably kick his ass Has everyone forgotten the sumo wrestling which Eddie won? He is stronger then any and all of them. |
Bigbroho | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:18 pm  You are right, Juju. I apologize. I was just trying to illustrate to a couple of people on this board how ludicrous their claims were. I am frustrated that some people have serious hang-ups and predispositions to hate one sex or another - or hate one race or another - that really annoys me. I guess some of us don't live with as many hang-ups as others. I guess I should show more compassion to the unfortunate souls like Jade etc. Peace and love. |
Mbliving | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:20 pm  In the RR tonight, Jamie stated that she liked Eddie, he had a good heart and she would be happy if he won. So unless she was lying, she did not feel frightened or threatened. You would not say a person had a good heart if you thought he wanted to hurt you. I hope Jamie put this discussion to rest. |
Creamynougat | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:21 pm  The only FACT here is that Eddie made a comment to Jamie about clotheslining her. That is the ONLY FACT. We KNOW nothing else. To read more into it is going into the realm of assumption. Untrue. It's not the only FACT we know. If Eddie had only made an offhand comment to Jamie about clotheslining her, it likely would not have raised many eyebrows. Maybe you need to rethink your premise. Review Eddie's actions and statements that comprise this incident and perhaps you'll better understand WHY it bothered people. Let me know if you need help with this. |
Jade888 | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:27 pm  Bigbroho! Maybe an evening in an emergency room or a shelter for battered woman and abused children may give you some compassion. I know enough about compassion as we even have an adopted child along with our own and if you need to read a book about compassion I recomend the "The Art of Happiness" by the Dalai Lama. Very insightful and inspirational. |
Wendy | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:29 pm  Hey Whatever...I admire your stamina. |
Bigbroho | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:36 pm  And what about battered men? You are so sexist, Jade. Please get help. Please. We all love you so. Please get your hate taken care of. Love and peace. |
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:40 pm  LOL! Oh I understand Whatever, I just wanted you to put it more clearly and concisely. Thank you! So, in relation to your factual comment: "Physical aggression towards weaker females is both cowardly and a sign of hostility and dominance. " I agree that THIS IS A FACT as I said in my earlier post BUT, We don't KNOW if it is a FACT that Eddie was being hostile and aggressive TOWARDS Jamie. You stated it as a fact in relation to the clothesline topic. WHEN IN FACT IT IS JUST YOUR OPINION. If it wasn't intended as a threat, then why is that dysfunctional? I'm only criticising you for your "dysfunctional family" and "denial" comments Whatever, which BTW you still haven't apologized for and continue to ignore and refuse to answer to........ It is still not a FACT. Just your opinion. That was my argument all along. I'm only interested in FACTS in relation to this topic. I don't jump to conclusions unless I have them- and I don't make negative personal assumptions about people that post on this board just because their view point is different from mine. Why are people in denial and from dysfunction if they disagree with you? My credibility deteriorates? LOL Too funny..... |
Jade888 | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:43 pm  There are homes for battered men as well...but lets face it who has the ability to hurt the most? I think you could benefit from professional help...have you ever been beaten by a woman...are you a woman hater... sounds like that to me...are you or have you ever had a relationship with a woman were you beaten by your mother? What's the problem...I can forward you a copy of shelters for battered men...the list is very small since domestic violence against men is only one percent of the reported cases. |
Whatever | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:51 pm  Jujubean- Your continued backpedalling as you fail in the attempt to support your erroneous assertions is further demonstration of your sad state of denial and lack of basic comprehension skills. "I'm only criticising you for your "dysfunctional family" and "denial" comments Whatever, which BTW you still haven't apologized for and continue to ignore and refuse to answer to........" If you had read and understood earlier posts, you would recognize that what other posters have said corroborate my previous statements. No apologies are warranted. Accordlngly, you have nothing left to criticize. |
Scbookworm | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:52 pm  It is fascinating to see the lengths that some will go to to defend and justify the indefensible. Eddie is both hostile and bitter. There is nothing admirable about him or his behavior. |
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:54 pm  Creamynougat, Read the above post too- in answer to your post. I know what you are saying- Jamie asked what "clothesline" meant, so Eddie demonstrated. Of course, this was also edited for tv. This is what is giving me a headache: Whatever: "Yes. Further, whether intended as a threat or not, it is dysfunctional, unacceptable behavior." If it wasn't inteded to be a threat, why would it be dysfunctional or unacceptable? |
Rozyred | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 06:59 pm  Oh, a new twist - jamie asked for a demo. I'm surprised this didn't come out before. Is this the new chat room theory? |
Bigbroho | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:01 pm  Jade, you seem to self-appointed yourself as an expert. Quite clearly, your response indicates you are a wannabe counsellor and not a true professional. IF, thats IF, you knew anything about the issue of abuse - other than what seems to be your own experience since you must be talking from experience to spew such venom - IF you really understood abusive relationships you would also understand the stigma attached to a male that claims abuse. Unlike women who have a strong support network developed, men do not. Men who cry abuse are labeled as "wussy" or "non-masculine" or other similar comments. Often, if they complain, they are ignored. But enough of that. This is not about that - this is about your clear loathing for men. I wish you well on your road to recovery. Mental and emotional illnesses can be a challenge. I so wish you well. Peace and love ps. dont get mad at me now - hater! |
Jade888 | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:03 pm  Scbookworm...thanks so much for getting to the point. I pulled the tape out of my VCR and watched the clothesline incident again...If you see Jamies eyes not only was she taken aback, she sat back and yes there was a moment of fear in her eyes. IMO she was really frightened for a moment especially after he talked about throwing her to the ground. She got up and off of the chair to get away from Eddie. |
Whatever | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:08 pm  Jujubean- "If it wasn't inteded to be a threat, why would it be dysfunctional or unacceptable?" Please read the many previous posts earlier in this discussion which very clearly answer your question. I appreciate the sincerity of your question, but I do not appreciate your failure to understand ideas before you attempt to criticize them. |
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:08 pm  Whatever:"JuJuBean Your continued backpedalling as you fail in the attempt to support your erroneous assertions is further demonstration of your sad state of denial and lack of basic comprehension skills." Again, you say I am in denial and you are flaming me personally and going way off of the subject. I haven't backpeddaled on anything. I still stand firm that we only know what Eddie SAID and DID, not that it was abusive in intent which you have stated. We don't know that is a FACT. I've been staying on topic and haven't personally attacked you. "I'm only criticising you for your "dysfunctional family" and "denial" comments Whatever, which BTW you still haven't apologized for and continue to ignore and refuse to answer to........" Whatever: "If you had read and understood earlier posts, you would recognize that what other posters have said corroborate my previous statements." So, because some other posters agree with you that gives you license to say we come from abusive families in denial and turn it into a PERSONAL VENDETTA?! Whatver: "No apologies are warranted." Ummm..Okay....... Whatever: "Accordlngly, you have nothing left to criticize." Huh? LOL!!!!! |
Jade888 | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:14 pm  Dear Bigbroho...I have a show about mental health and just today we discussed domestic violence. I do not have to be a counselor to recognize anger and bitter behavior...you have continued to attack me when I have expressed my own opinion. And yes in my younger days I worked for legal aid assisting woman and children to get restraining orders and such..,so yes I do have experience in that venue. I sit on numerous boards in our community and I consider myself knowledgeable. Sorry. Also, my husband (24 years) is a psychiatrist and cares for many of the victims in these matters there very few are men. In fact, I think it does happen in our society more today but I think that men would be more embarassed in reporting incidents of violence by a woman for the sole fact of being labeled a wimp! JUST MY OPINION... |
Jujubean | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:15 pm  Whatever, I was asking you a question, which some others on this board may be interested in knowing. Wasn't criticizing you. There is a difference. If you don't wish to answer it that's fine. But, don't criticize me for asking you. Whatever: "Yes. Further, whether intended as a threat or not, it is dysfunctional, unacceptable behavior." If it wasn't inteded to be a threat, why would it be dysfunctional or unacceptable? Does anyone else out there understand this statement? |
Bigbroho | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:19 pm  Jade, pleased to hear that you are using your show to get your problem addressed. And that your hubby is helping in your therapy. Let us all know when you are feeling better. Peace and love. |
Juki | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:28 pm  I also have worked in a DV & SA center and ran a Amger Management group for years and Eddie is clearly not a person that would abuse. You can tell he is just a boy thats board and ment nothing by the statement and by reading all his mom has wrote and said I am sure she would not have raised a boy that was a abuser. IMO |
Katie | Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 07:31 pm  Here is the way it went. Jamie is sitting at the table to the left of Eddie E: Just want to clothesline Jamie. boom he demonstrates Just want to drop her to the floor. Ja: Why would you want to do that? E: I don't know but I just had the urge to do it.boom demonstrates againI mean take you down, I mean like go down with you. I mean take my forearm to your esophagus and drop you to the floor, makes chocking sounds a big bruise to your throat. It would be kinda cool. he demonstrates three more times while he is saying this Ja: And you would find pleasure in that? E: More then hugs, yeah boom demonstrates again drop you with the clothesline demonstrates again Jo: Eddie needs to break the seal E: I could be lazy and go lefty he demonstrates but Curtis: He is now threatening women. Jo: Eddie needs to break the seal. Eddie demonstrates again |
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