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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:27 pm
Her plan was brilliant. She realizes there are just so many tribal councils left and if they were to get rid of James with his idols and his strength, it was time to do so. It was good thing that Amanda pushed the "James vote" this week, however, I would never say that her plan was brilliant. Todd was the first one that ever considered blindsiding James and that was a week or two ago. Todd was the one who brought up the fact that there are "just so many tribal councils left and if they were to get rid of James with his idols and his strength". Amanda just re-brought up the issue. So for me, I didn't really see it as "Amanda's Master Plan". She was merely re-instating one of Todd's brilliant ideas!!!
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:15 pm
The week after James merged, Todd and Amanda discussed the fact that James had not offered to return the idol and he was definitely pissed about it. Yes, Todd did come up with the idea first, but he was content this week to let it ride. Amanda was the one this week that pushed for the plan.She was also the one who warned PG not to blow it by saying anything but to act like she knew she was going home. Maybe brilliant was a little strong, but it seemed pretty smart to me. But if you say so...
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:05 pm
LOL I'm sorry Allietex!!! This is kind of funny.....I just read your response and then I said to my sister- "Oops! I hope I didn't offend her! I should have put a smiley face or something at the end of my post. You know....to make it seem nicer and more lighthearted." That just struck me as funny, as soon as I said it to her. LOL I think it's pretty universally known among forums that if you add a silly face at the end of a sentence....it doesn't come out quite so harsh. We all know how to work the system!!! I guess my post sounded kind of rude. It's sometimes hard to disagree with someone in a right manner. Again I am sorry for my tone!!!
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:11 am
Something has been bugging me since Thursday night. When did China give Courtney her OWN cave?
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Konamouse
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:14 am
Remember, the editors are pushing a story for us to see - we knew Todd thought of it a few "weeks" ago, but that Amanda presented it to Courtney "this" week. Who is to say that Todd didn't bring it back up and sent Amanda to suggest it to Courtney (maybe his relationship with Courtney is strained???). We don't know the whole story (yet). Before this week, Amanda has been very quiet and hasn't shown any sign of advanced planning or strategy...until this week's episode.

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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:11 pm
I hated seeing them all laugh when James left!!! they could have at least acted sorry. James is awesome and I wish him the best. So sad to see him go
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Sharinia
Member
09-07-2002
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:21 pm
i couldn't believe they were all laughing either - even the jury.. wth?! even though i think it was a smart move on amanda's part, i was glad when james said that he was bringing an immunity idol to tribal council. too bad he changed his mind
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:25 pm
He didn't change his mind, he did bring the idols! ;) I think you're all too hard on the others, regarding their expressions when James left. 1. he was a huge threat to take $1 million from them 2. he had both the idols 3. they are so relieved it wasn't them 4. they've been hardly eating and hardly eating for thirty something days!!! Without experience I don't think you can compare their actions to how you think you would act in the same circumstances, or judge how they would act if a similar situation happened in their everyday lives rather than as a contestant on Survivor.
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:41 pm
No problem Trueheart. Were their faces any different than James' was when previous people were voted out? I seem to remember some smug looks from him. People are always so glad that it is not them, that they probably have a hard time not showing their glee. I think we are more sensitive when it is someone we like that leaves than when someone we don't especially care for leaves. Amanda and Denise showed little emotion. PG and Eric were smirking, but can you blame them? They must think is is a miracle that they are still there. I did not see Todd's expression as smirking. He was really grimacing while he was waiting to see if James was going to use the idol. I saw his expression as more one of relief than smirking. The only time I was annoyed with the expressions was with PG and Jaime the week they purposely lost to get rid of Aaron and James. They went way overboard with their actions. A smirk is one thing, their actions was something else again.
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Sharinia
Member
09-07-2002
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 3:38 pm
Kitt, I sort of agree with you... they could have been laughing in part because of the absurdity of the trickery that they are 'forced' to engage in. I just don't recall ppl ever laughing like this before. Often when they vote off someone they like, even a big threat, they hang their heads and look sad/guilty. I guess I just don't get the lack of feeling for James the jury esp - J wasn't a threat to them, so why were they laughing? it was almost as if they were all sharing an inside joke. did it tickle them that he had the immunity idols and didn't use them? i think James had to be feeling a bit hurt and embarrassed at that moment and all of the big grins seemed insensitive imo
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 5:29 pm
The only time I was annoyed with the expressions was with PG and Jaime the week they purposely lost to get rid of Aaron and James. They went way overboard with their actions. A smirk is one thing, their actions was something else again. I felt so much rage at that time!!! LOL maybe it is a little extreme but I could NOT stand PG and especially Jaime's expressions. They definitely went WAY overboard.
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 6:04 pm
4. they've been hardly eating for thirty something days!!! Without experience I don't think you can compare their actions to how you think you would act in the same circumstances, or judge how they would act if a similar situation happened in their everyday lives rather than as a contestant on Survivor. This has been brought up before in many Survivor discussions and we would all do well to try to always keep this in mind. For the human race in general, comfort and hunger have a huge impact on our behavior. It is easy to be patient and thoughtful when you have a full belly and a warm dry atmosphere. It's like you are comfortable so you want those around you to feel that way too. But when you live like they do on Survivor, I imagine that most of their thoughts are self-centered. I'm hungry. My back hurts. I'm bored. I wish she would stop singing. I'm hungry! I don't like it when he tells me what to do especially with that tone. I want a long hot shower. I'm hungry!!!!! And so on..... It's hard to look beyond your own discomfort. ESPECIALLY when all you really have to do all day is stare at trees. After you've had your initial "Oooo's and Ahhhh's" over the beauty of nature...your mind zeroes in on how miserable you are. Your wondering why you are making yourself suffer like this. Oh yeah...1 million dollars... So then you force yourself past this hardship and focus on strategy. I can just imagine the day to day monotony. I think that they must be in a completely different zone than us. So the way they think (or don't think) or behave is different than how they would react if they hadn't been starved for a month. Even people in everyday life let their surrounding circumstances affect their behavior. I just know that (even though I try) I cannot even fathom what the experience of Survivor is like.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 6:09 pm
James - I, like everyone else here, loved his goodbye speech. I wanted to hug my TV. I actually said out loud "Oh James! I love you so much!" and my bf heard in the other room, and said, "Who are you talking to?" James was just plain not a good game player. He shouldn't have stayed, as much as I loved his personality, and how much integrity he showed in his loyalty to his alliance. I don't know if it was editing, but it looked like her was looking strangely at (I forget who) two people talking at camp. It was like he knew something was up, but he just didn't want to believe it. I think James should have played the idol this week NOT because they were voting for him, but to show he was WILLING to play them. I think the following week, people would think twice before wasting their votes on James again. Everyone knows that he had the second idol to use, so if he used the first one this week, I think those who would be "second place" in votes NEXT week, would scramble to just have the tribe vote out someone other than James. Does that make sense? They wouldn't want to give PG?/Eric the say in who the second place in votes was. Amanda - I see her as a VERY good player. I think she is just as smart as Todd, and I think they come up with this stuff together, but I jst think Amanda is more....SLY about it all. Todd is flamboyant (I don't use that as a homosexual slur, but I mean it in the true sense of the word). Todd flaunts his strategies and his emotions all over the place. If someone says "boo" about him behind his back, he's running back to them and chewing them out for it. Todd's problem is that he is impetuous. While he has good game, his game is still worn on his sleeve. He's an alpha character, that needs everyone to understand that he is in charge, and that could very easily bite him in the butt in this game. Amanda OTOH, is sneaky, and more than happy to let Todd take some of the credit (and heat) for some of the plays. I would like to see her win this whole thing. She is my favorite of those left. PG - I think it was risky of Amanda to tell PG that PG needed to NOT campaign to stay. If I were there, and the person who had always been SUCH a sneaky game player all of a sudden changes her behavior and doesn't try to stay, that would be a huge red flag that something was up. I think Amanda should have not bothered telling PG anything. PG could have kept campaigning as long as Todd, Courtney, Amanda and Denise were on the same page. Gosh I want PG gone. Even though she got points for bringing Denise, I agree it was just because she perceived Denise as the weak link. Denise - what's with her? James spoke so highly of her, and she has failed him big time, TWICE. I guess James over-stated their relationship or alliance. Doesn't seem like Denise cares AT ALL about James. Yes I know that you aren't expected to CARE about the other contestants, but that one episode made it seem like they had a good relationship. I guess it soured once she was left out of the loop for that one tribal council. Eric - Eric = Beau from BB 6 or 7 (I forget the season). I agree with whoever said it would be interesting to see him play if he was in a different situation (not an underdog). It's like he's playing dead while a predator is attacking him. Todd - I want him gone. I will be happy to see if Amanda can pull it off next week. He has the strategic mind for the game, but he lacks the emotional restraint needed to carry out his plans, keep allies, and not be seen as such a power player. He knew enough to let Aaron be the "leader" at the beginning, but it's coming out now that Todd needs to be the one in control, and everyone sees that. That will be his demise, is someone saying "Hey why does Todd get to call all the shots?" Courtney - the ultimate UTR player. Jean Robert is right, that while all the other people are clawing at each other, she's going to waltz to the finals. And with her tiny stature, strength and balance challenges won't be waring on her. I think she'd lose in the F2 or 3 because she really hasn't done ANYTHING strategic, and she was hard to live with, so she didn't make friends that would vote for her. Speaking of F2 or F3, Amanda stated "Final 3 and everyone would vote for him" when she was talking about James. So.....do you think they all know that it is another Final 3 situation this year, or was Amanda being an astute watcher of previous seasons?
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:49 pm
Amanda's logic for this may be that if it were a final two, then there would be eight jury members and there could be a tie for the winner. So it is likely a final three.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-25-2003
| Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 9:54 am
I think James should have played the idol this week NOT because they were voting for him, but to show he was WILLING to play them. I think the following week, people would think twice before wasting their votes on James again. Everyone knows that he had the second idol to use, so if he used the first one this week, I think those who would be "second place" in votes NEXT week, would scramble to just have the tribe vote out someone other than James. Does that make sense? They wouldn't want to give PG?/Eric the say in who the second place in votes was. Eeyores, yes, if James had used the HII, he'd still be there. But it wouldn't matter what his strategy was for doing it. He has another. So he is safe for at least another vote (if he used it). Get him out now if you can cuz that eliminates his votes when he is safe. If any of the others later voted for James and he then used the second HII, their votes are wasted. Strategy-wise, they were right in blindsiding him.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 12:03 pm
Oh I'm not talking about from anyone ELSE'S point of view. Their strategy was ABSOLUTELY correct. I was trying to talk about it from within James' head. The moment James felt AT ALL suspicious, I think he should have used one of them, for the reasons I stated above (and in your post). I was trying to look at it from his perspective, because I believe he was too scared to USE an idol up unnecessarily, but I think that using one, might have at least bought him two more weeks til he had to use the other, which would have been the same thing as saving it and starting to use them next week. Speaking of that, if we are assuming there is a final THREE (not two), then one cannot use the idols after next week anyways. So he could have used one this (past) week, and one next week, and then they are at the final four, right? Or is my math off? I'm pretty sure you can't buy your way into the final 2 or 3 that the jury votes for. Oh wait, maybe my math is off by one week. But still. I think James should have thought that using the idol this week, might have scared people off of voting for him next week. In thinking of this math, the two idols, and not being able to use them once they are at the final 4, Amanda was bang on that this was their last chance to blindside him. Next week he could have played them just because they were the last two immunities he could use them. I really think Amanda, or all of them, know that it's a final 3 this season, and aren't just guessing.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-25-2003
| Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 1:15 pm
He wasn't the best game player. I don't think he came across as too arrogant, but he was too sure of himself. Anyone can go at any time -- but not me now.
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:15 am
Denise - what's with her? James spoke so highly of her, and she has failed him big time, TWICE. I guess James over-stated their relationship or alliance. Doesn't seem like Denise cares AT ALL about James. Yes I know that you aren't expected to CARE about the other contestants, but that one episode made it seem like they had a good relationship. I guess it soured once she was left out of the loop for that one tribal council. *************************** James spoke highly of her as a friend, but have you ever gotten the impression that he wanted to take her to the end? I haven't. It was pretty obvious last week from the conversation after she left for the reward, that he considered her the first to go of their alliance after PG and Eric were gone. I imagine that Denise has figured all this out. After being left standing alone during the reward challenge a couple of weeks ago, and being left out of the loop when during the Jon Robert vote, I doubt if Denise trusts anybody, especially her alliance. Have you ever seen them actually talk strategy with her. It is more that they just tell her how to vote and expect her to do what they say. And James was just as guilty of that as anyone. They really treat her almost as a non entity. Look how surprised Eric was when she exhibited skill at martial arts. I guess you could say she failed him this week when she voted for him to go, but when was the other time she failed him? Actually, I think he failed her. During the reward challenge, they should have taken her over PG and Eric. I would have seen that as a slap in the face. And if James thought so highly of her, he would have.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Monday, December 03, 2007 - 10:47 am
In the episode where they traded tribe members, James was shown at the beginning of the show, talking about how great his relationship was with Denise, how "if she weren't married" and he was a bit older, and I could SWEAR that he felt they were the tightest. I definitely got the impression he wanted to stay with her, alliance-wise. Perhaps I am remembering more, 6 or 7 weeks later, but I really feel their intention was to stick together, as fellow oddballs. So in the next episode, when James was kidnapped back, and was given the idol to go through with this plan to boot Jamie, Denise needed to step up. She blatantly gave up. Even if she would have taken her time, they could have won the challenge, but she left James out to dry. Blatantly. And James looked so deflated when she put the baloot down and backed away from the table. I think that was the end of James' respect for Denise, in any sort of game-playing mode. If she wouldn't step up for him then, why should he think he could trust her later? I think she isolated herself, starting with that one immunity challenge. She was completely in on the plan that week, and she screwed it up when it counted. So why should she expect to be included on other plans, when she is more of a liability? I think she put herself there by failing James that day. Since then, he hasn't felt he could trust her, and their relationship has soured more and more.
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Monday, December 03, 2007 - 5:09 pm
I think James should have played the idol this week NOT because they were voting for him, but to show he was WILLING to play them.~~Eeyore That's what I thought about as well! But again, we were not there. mThey faked him out big time. He didn't get a chance to bluff any one. I'm also in the camp that likes James very much but recognized the fact that he's not such a good game player. <100>
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Hiyall
Member
07-06-2005
| Monday, December 03, 2007 - 6:34 pm
quote: "Something has been bugging me since Thursday night. When did China give Courtney her OWN cave? " LMAO
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 8:47 am
So that immunity challenge is where Denise "failed" James. I thought Denise tried very hard on the immunity challenge. She appeared absolutely devastated when she was unable to do it. There were times some of the others did not "step up" and win a challenge, including James, so if they were using that as an excuse to exclude Denise, I think that was pretty weak. Denise was not even the only one to fail in that challenge. She just happened to be last one and up against James. It is kind of like making the last out in a baseball game, you get the blame, but yours was not the only out in the game. I never got the idea that he felt he was in any kind of special alliance with Denise. Yes, I think he liked and respected her, but it was Todd and Amanda that he considered his alliance, not Denise. Denise, like Courtney were "extras," there soley for the votes. I also like James a lot, and was pulling for him, but other than the physical challenges, he was not a very good player. He was all but handed the two immunity idols and a guaranteed sweep to the final four, but he blew it big time.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 9:49 am
I agree with Allietex on Denise. It is James's fault that he is gone. Does not make one bit of since for him to have not used one of the hii's. I'm sure he is clear on that now.
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 12:28 pm
Totally James fault that he is gone and he admits that. The thing about the immunity challenge was that they all had this plan for James to throw it and his tribe to lose so they could get PG or Jaime out. Denise couldn't/wouldn't eat the duck things (I think it was balout but not sure). She appeared to just plain stop trying from what I saw. IMO she did help lose that particular challenge but at the end of the day no one but James could have saved himself with the HII, he was the only one in control of their use and he chose not to use one.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 2:53 pm
It looked like Denise really did try to eat that baby bird but her gag reflex was too strong. I lol when she first bit into the thing, she made that noise like that was going to help her get it down. And I was thinking that James could have refused to eat the bird forcing them both to lose, then up to the next person which team wins. James knew the plan but Denise didn't.
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