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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 4:00 pm
That's what I meant Chilliwilli. It's one thing to not eat your food fast enough, that the opponent beats you. But James was movings sooooooo slowly, so Denise could win, and she just stopped and said, "I can't do this". Only then did James say "it's OK" and then he picked up his baloot and started eating it. Now that we know about Denise's martial arts background, I think that loud yell before she ate the baloot was something you do to focus and summon strength. Just a guess though.... I am in COMPLETE agreement that James was not a good overall player, but I still think the unraveling all began with Denise not even trying to finish the baloot. The whole alliance had her in on that plan, and she proved that her interests were more important than the alliance's interest, and from there, she could be seen as someone not as dedicated to the alliance. That brings about the whole "not getting picked" issue, which then made her re-think where she stood, and the rift just got bigger and bigger. When the whole FL alliance knew the plan to win immunity for James to get rid of Jamie, and Denise kept them from that goal, there's just so much time to go back to camp and question why she just gave up. I bet they talked about it ad nauseum, and probably decided she was unreliable. You know how those isolated social situations let people just stew in their opinions, and make them think extreme versions of things.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 4:22 pm
I couldn't remember if Denise was in on the plan for James's team to lose that eating challenge but either way, I think she tried to eat it.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 5:12 pm
I think Denise did know she was meant to eat the baloot, and really tried to, but just couldn't. I know I couldn't either, whatever the situation. Maybe it affected the others' feelings about her, but in the end nothing bad came of it, so I'm not sure it had a major influence.
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Rosie
Member
11-12-2003
| Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 5:20 pm
Making them eat weird things is one of my least favorite parts of Survivor. I would not have eaten any of those things!
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 7:47 am
I just went back and checked to see who else from FL lost on this challenge. Courtney lost eating the eel. Amanda lost eating baby turtles. Frosti lost eating a thousand year old egg. I know she was up against James and he was trying to lose, but it was not a timing thing for her. She just could not get it down, she kept gagging. I don't really think they held that against her though. I don't think she was ever part of the "inner circle." She was always there just for votes and was considered expendable.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 1:36 pm
I don't count the losses of Courtney, Frosti, and Amanda, because their opponent was rushing to eat too. I only count Denise, because she was given a free pass to win, and she chose not to take it. I don't think she was ever a part of the Courtney/Amanda/Todd circle, but she was definitely in with James. I feel so positive that he said something in that "kidnapping" episode about she and him being the same type of people, and he'd like to go far with her. But he re-thought that once people picked on her dedication to the team. I also don't think James was ever really a part of that Courtney/Amanda/Todd group either. I seem to recall earlier on in the season that he thought he didn't fit in, and that was why he hung out with Jean-Robert, and didn't talk much.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:19 pm
"I only count Denise, because she was given a free pass to win, and she chose not to take it." That's the part people are disagreeing with, that she "chose" not to win. I don't think she had any choice, she simply couldn't do it. I took James' comments about Denise to mean about her personally, not in the game. He seemed unusually good at separating his personal relations with game relations (and thinking about it, it's probably that same trait that meant he didn't understand what he was doing by not returning the idol).
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:54 pm
I don't think Denise deliberately didn't eat it either...some people just can't eat certain things. I, for instance, cannot eat shrimp. It doesn't matter if I know that it is in food or not, but if it IS in food I will throw it up. (For instance I once had some gumbo that had shrimp in it -- and I didn't know it -- but the minute it hit the back of my throat -- yuck!.) For some reason I think there was some discussion somewhere around that time frame where Denise got on the wrong side of the others (and I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with the eating competition) and James and the others questioned her loyalty to the group. It was right after the segment aired where James was discussing Denise so positively. But then again I could have just dreamed that up...LOL!
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:57 pm
But the thing is, that there are obviously two ways people can interpret Denise's actions in that challenge, and it looks like she ended up on Survivor with a bunch of people who may have interpreted her my way, and not so sympathetically. I don't think the competitive nature of Survivor allows for sympathy when there is a loss. People look for someone to blame, and the extreme conditions of starvation and boredom probably magnify any feelings of doubt they may have about her.
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 3:03 pm
I don't know of any reason Denise would not have eaten the item if she could have. I think they distrusted her more because they knew they had left her out of things and when the merger occurred, they realized that PG and the others were going to try to turn her. Maybe it was their own guilt about how they had treated her that made them distrust her. Or maybe it is because they were willing to turn on each other (which all of them have made clear they would) that made them assume she would do the same.
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Eeyoreslament
Member
07-20-2003
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 5:10 pm
"Maybe it was their own guilt about how they had treated her that made them distrust her. Or maybe it is because they were willing to turn on each other (which all of them have made clear they would) that made them assume she would do the same." Good points Allietex. All very possible factors in the current situation.
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Aurora
Member
11-24-2006
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 5:40 pm
I seem to recall Denise kind of muttering, "Sorry, James" when she couldn't eat it. Am I the only one who remembers this? And that's when James went ahead and ate his.
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 9:31 pm
I remember that, Aurora. I got two words ~ just swallow!
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 9:21 am
I remember it too. I also seem to remember in a later confessional her saying that she felt badly because she felt she had let her team down, or was that after a different challenge? I don't really expect Denise to go much futher. She has no real allies, and she is not good at challenges. That is why I am so glad for her that she got to go on the reward to the temple and see the martial arts demonstration. What better reward could she have gotten? It will be a memory for her to cherish forever.
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Slinkydog
Member
11-30-2005
| Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 2:30 pm
I thought I saw a commercial for Survivor which indicated that there may be no more immunity. Did anyone else see it?
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