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Archive through September 23, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XV - China: General Discussions: ** SHOW: 9/20 Episode **: ARCHIVES: Archive through September 23, 2007 users admin

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Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 3:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
I have never been to a Yoga class that didn't close with "Namaste."

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 3:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
Can we have a seperate thread to discuss religion?

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 4:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
I don't see much cultural learning going on when you're herded into a temple for a ceremony where you don't know what the heck is going on and can't understand a word that's being said.

If Probst, or whoever, wanted them to have a meaningful experience, they would have had an interpreter and/or explained what various parts of the ceremony meant. Why accept Probst's opinion, anyway? Last year he thought Asia was a country.

I wouldn't be offended if a non-Christian who knew nothing about the service came to my church, heard the priest saying, "Take, eat, this is my body..." and turned pale and quietly left.

I wouldn't expect a Jew or a Muslim to stay at a ceremony that entailed eating pork. I wouldn't consider them intolerant, either. I would just accept that we all have different cultures and different ways of looking at things. Doesn't mean one is better than the other.

Nan
Member

09-25-2000

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 4:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nan a private message Print Post    
I think alot of this is where you personally "draw the line"... she clearly knew there could be repercussions over this, yet she went with her conscious.....and not over her "personal line" I find that honorable...I do understand the respect part, but I respect my own belief system .....anyone who is wholly into their own belief is not going to judge me for not being like them. Not exactly the same, but still a way of life for me.....I am vegetarian, and there is no way I would eat even a tiny amount of meat/fish
for any purpose....this is not a religious belief but a personable statement regarding animal life.
This doesn't make me disrespectful when I am at other people's homes, and I don't eat meat/fish...It is just a personal choice. I know these two things are waaayyy different, but the principle is the same.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 4:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Well we don't know if there was more explanation or interpretation due to editing.

Twiggyish
Member

08-14-2000

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 4:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twiggyish a private message Print Post    
Courtney was clearly disrespectful. Her obvious boredom and her rolling eyes, made it clear that she didn't want to be there. She just wouldn't put her hands in the proper position, either.

Yesitsme
Member

08-24-2004

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 4:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Yesitsme a private message Print Post    
I'm in Lesllie's corner. I didn't find her disrespectful...she quietly left when she was uncomfortable. And while they said it was just a welcoming ceremony, they were bowing down to the gods so I undertand. I think sometimes we listen to people blindly and don't think for ourselves...probably more harm has been done in the world by following blindly than thinking for yourself in such a time.

That being said, I am a Christian and I probably would have stayed. I would have used the time to pray for the people of the country. I was in a Buddhist temple in Japan during some sort of day of atonement and it taught me a lot about the people and culture. Because someone doesn't approach the world as I would does not mean they are wrong. We're just different and that is fine!

Webchiq
Member

07-11-2005

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 5:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Webchiq a private message Print Post    
I am very interested in Buddhist tenets and have read quite a bit; however, I was raised in a very strict religious household where we would not participate in that ceremony for any reason. Buddha is considered a G-d by many Christians and bowing to his statue is considered worship. Welcoming ceremony or not, I have seen that belief drilled into the heads of many Christians and did not have an issue with her leaving quietly and without scene, as she did. I believe that it was her right to do so.

I would have loved to be there and I would have stayed as my beliefs have shifted greatly over the years; however, I know exactly that fear/guilt she may have felt in her stomach.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 5:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
Kar, thanks for your thoughtful and thought provoking posts. You are so very gentle in expressing an opposing opinion!

In my world view there is only one God, but different people call him/her by different names. If (s)he is okay with that, so am I. Different cultures approach their Deity in different ways, but who is to say which one (s)he prefers - certainly not I!

Twiggyish
Member

08-14-2000

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 5:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twiggyish a private message Print Post    
Leslie excused herself. I think she knew it would make her a target. It made her uncomfortable so she left. I would have stayed, but that's me. However, I respect her feelings.

Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beachcomber a private message Print Post    
I have on occasion listened to the radio station where Leslie is a DJ. The station http://www.newlife919.com/ plays contemporary Christian music (such as Michael W. Smith), not a talk show - just upbeat and uplifting music.

Now back to the game - who has the best odds in Vegas to win? Which team will do better in the mental challenges? Which team will do better in the physical challenges? Who is going to lose the most weight? Who is going to have a showmance? When will we see our first Survivor baby?

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
ok which guy is the gambler? It is so hard in the beginning to remember who is who.

Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    
Jean-Robert is the Pro Poker Player, if that's what you mean.

Am I the only one that thinks Courtney looks like Gwen Stefani?

And Denise could pass for Twila's sister.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
He's the one with his jeans hanging low which is not a good look on him. Yep Nick I thought the same thing.

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
It appears that Leslie's instincts were right. JP said:

"Early on she's forced to go to a Buddhist temple which was not a worshipping ceremony but has a worship element to it."

How's that for deception?

Then he shows how she was set up. Has he been taking lessons from AG?

"That was difficult for her. Right away she's exposed as somebody who has a strong faith. The question is, will people manipulate her and her faith or will she use her faith to manipulate others. Where is her line?"

http://www.survivorfever.net/s15_jp_media_conference.html

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 6:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Well, Puzzled, that is indeed quite puzzling, since that was not shown on the tv show. Of course, that's what most of us see. :-)

As I have said repeatedly, she had every right to leave. I just personally found her reasoning to not be in accordance with MY understanding of Christianity. She is entitled to her understanding, and I am entitled to express mine as well.

And while I suppose she cannot be faulted for not knowing more about Buddhism, if she did, she would have known that Buddhists do not bow as a method of worship so much as they bow as an act of humility, or as a reminder to be mindful. When I was a Buddhist, I recall being taught that one was not bowing to an idol but a symbol to 'remember', to be mindful, to be humble.

And I still laugh remembering that we were taught to bow to everything, all other people, all living things, even a garbage can, if it helped us become more humble. Yes, imagine me walking down the streets of Boulder bowing to trash cans.

Then again, perhaps that is part of the problem - this typically American unawareness and misconceptions about other faiths. There are some who keep insisting that the monks were insulted, even though to be offended by the actions of another is considered to not be in accordance with the "right thought" precept of Buddhism, and therefore it would be the monk who would be in error.

If anything, the monks are thanking her for giving them something to work on in themselves (if they were at all offended). So she was a blessing to them.

But as Jeff rightly points out, being a Christian on Survivor comes with a certain liability, and it will play into her ability to play the game. Just the same as if you were a vegetarian, and your team was faced with some gross food eating challenge. Do you stick by your belief, make your team lose and risk being voted out for that? Leslie may find this game a difficult one in which to be so conscientious. It will be interesting to see if her conscience allows her to lie to keep herself in the game.

And people will continue to analyze it because it is part of the game.

Lumbele
Member

07-12-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 7:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lumbele a private message Print Post    
I have already taped over the show, so can't recheck it. How would you all interpret the nun's reaction to the waitress' "mistakes" at the ceremony? To me, she seemed ticked off.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 7:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Lumbele, I thought she was very abrupt and unkind, frankly. Buddhists are human, also. :-)

Lumbele
Member

07-12-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 7:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lumbele a private message Print Post    
Yep, that's what I thought, Kar. Can't really blame her though, although she apparently went against her teachings.

Skydiver6
Member

07-21-2006

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Skydiver6 a private message Print Post    
While I felt it was wrong of Leslie to leave, I did not find her a villian. It didn't make me not like her. In fact I liked her quite a bit and enjoyed her during the rest of the show. I never pick one thing to define a contestant. They all do things I don't care for at some point or another. It's their overall behavior that makes me like them or not.

My overall impression after the first show is that James is my favorite! :o) Courtney was my least favorite though she could be good TV. I was even sad to see Chicken go. I wish we had a few shows with everyone before they started getting voted off so we could get to know them better.

Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    

quote:

Can we have a seperate thread to discuss religion?




Hold on Pamy...next week it'll be old news and I'll have to sit through 100's of "James is hot" posts.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:11 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
LOL Nick!(I will prolly take part in those posts! plus I have him in a wk pool!)

I am still waiting to see if anyone knows what Chicken gave JP!

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:13 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
guess what??? Alaginger, our favorite spoiler sleuth found the answer!!! thanks Ginger!

From an interview with Chicken:

Reality TV World: You gave something to Jeff Probst when you were leaving the temple and he was handing you your tribe's map and book -- what was it?

Chicken: I had my watch on... I took my watch off to give it to him.

Chy
Member

07-19-2003

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chy a private message Print Post    
I see you got it ....

It's curious why we don't have threads with different subjects here rather than one thread per show?

Chy
Member

07-19-2003

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chy a private message Print Post    
Nick, I'm curious.
Do you like James after the first Episode?
I don't mean the way the ladies like him, not that there's anything wrong with it, but do you like James as a Survivor player?