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Archive through September 23, 2007

The TVClubHouse: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XV - China: General Discussions: ** SHOW: 9/20 Episode **: ARCHIVES: Archive through September 23, 2007 users admin

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Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    
What is more rude?

A woman who thinks a ceremony is against her beliefs and quietly backs away and apologizes for it? Or a bratty girl that doesn't even want to try?

I think Courtney was far more rude in her actions during the ceremony; at least the monks can understand where Leslie was coming from...you don't see many Buddhist going to church every sunday.

Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beachcomber a private message Print Post    
I'm filled with a sense of sadness when a generally intelligent person exhibits such narrow thinking, is limited by such restrictive beliefs.

While in Turkey, I visited numerous mosques (not during prayer times) to learn about their worship and beliefs from our Muslim Tour Guide. We dressed appropriately and acted respectful during our visits. But as a Christian, would I participate in their prayer time or ceremonies? Absolutely not, because that would go against my beliefs. Why does that make one narrow-minded when they are faithful to their religion? We are free to worship as we wish in America and no one should call anyone narrow-minded for following their personal beliefs. She didn't make a scene and quietly exited the temple, so how is that being narrow-minded?

It is one thing to observe and learn about other religions, but completely another to participate in their worship service. And yes, being asked to fold your hands in prayer and bow before their statues was a religious ceremony in my eyes.

Supergranny
Member

02-03-2005

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Supergranny a private message Print Post    
Brenda you are right!! I forgot the part about having to take your shoes off. I kept a pair of socks in my bag so I could slip them on...I always worried someone would steal my sandals cause they were cute.

Bonjovifan
Member

08-20-2007

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonjovifan a private message Print Post    
Nickovtyme, I agree that Courtney was way more rude.

Csnog
Member

07-18-2002

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 2:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Csnog a private message Print Post    
They have yet to read the scroll given to them called "The Art of War". It is a very interesting book and would not have been given to them without being part of the game.

Nerovh
Member

06-12-2005

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 2:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nerovh a private message Print Post    
What about men who won't shake a woman's hand because it is against their beliefs to touch a woman who is not family? Should we call them rude, narrow, and unintelligent because they won't go against their beliefs for the sake of what Americans consider politeness? They are refusing a gesture of welcome not out of rudeness, but out of their spiritual beliefs. Sometimes it seems like when people are berating Christians for being narrow-minded and intolerant of other religious beliefs, they don't seem to realize that they themselves are coming across as intolerant of Christian beliefs.

Gonzilly
Member

07-09-2005

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 2:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gonzilly a private message Print Post    
I think Jeff made it into an awkward situation. She could have left the temple saying she was feeling light headed or dizzy and it would have been fine. She was already covered in sweat if you look back at the clip. He knew she was religious and played off of it.

Wavewatcher
Member

09-09-2006

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 3:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wavewatcher a private message Print Post    
Sad and disappointed to read so many not willing to learn about other cultures, including spiritual traditions...so many excuses.

Intolerance is born of fear, wherever you live in this world.

Lumbele
Member

07-12-2002

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 3:28 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lumbele a private message Print Post    
When in Rome.....Since it was emphasized that it was a welcoming ceremony, not religious, it would have been respectful to go along. The fact that the producers hoped for some drama from the religious lady and possibly set the trap intentionally is neither here nor there. She disrespected local tradition, but at least she felt bad doing it.

The NY waitress was just behaving like an immature brat and ticked me off considerably more. Did everyone have to bow as often as Ms NY or did that nun just give her a good workout to put her in her place?
Her comments about the high-fiving tribe were on the mark, though. However suck-up phoney, it was an attempt at getting some team spirit going, and if she had watched the show before, she just might have realised that sometimes in life you have to "make concessions" to survive. Should she make it past the next TC, her directness just might provide a few good laughs.

Mocha
Member

08-12-2001

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 3:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mocha a private message Print Post    
Ita Lum.

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 4:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ladytex a private message Print Post    
intolerance is a two way street ...

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 4:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ladytex a private message Print Post    
anyway, what I came in here for: BuddyTV Interview with Chicken

Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 4:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    
I'm sure she's willing to learn about other cultures traditions...there is a difference between learning and practicing

Foolscap
Member

09-04-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 4:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Foolscap a private message Print Post    
Way upthread someone mentioned the older, bossy guy who, if not the first voted off, went quite early. I think his name was BB.

Aurora
Member

11-24-2006

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 5:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Aurora a private message Print Post    
Just adding my thoughts on the welcome vs religious ceremony.

First, if it wasn't religious, why was it held in a temple? There surely are some outdoor areas where the Buddhists could have welcomed them.

Secondly, hands held together with fingers pointing up are traditionally a means of sending prayer to which ever god you are worshiping. Is this the case in the Buddhist religion too? I know they do the hands together pointing up when they touch their foreheads, mouths and hearts in reverence to Buddah. Why else did the nun correct Courtney a couple of times when her fingers weren't pointing up.

It felt pretty religious to me when you factor in the temple, the statues and the folded hands and bowing.

Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 5:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
To me it is all much ado about nothing, going along with a religious rite does not mean you are practicing. I have gone to Bris's, attended seders and read prayers, and gone to many religous functions. By joining my friends in their rituals, I never felt I was compromising myself. How is it wrong to bow to a statue if you dont believe in the deity????

Someone a while back mentioned that the survivors have involved themselves in many tribal rituals without a major to do. The only reason I think that anyone is offended is that buddhism is a mainstream religion as opposed to some tribal/religious ceremony on Fiji.

what does that say?

Ladytex
Member

09-27-2001

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 6:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ladytex a private message Print Post    
but she didn't say that she was offended ... she simply chose not to participate ...

Dokatola
Member

06-20-2007

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 7:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dokatola a private message Print Post    
i rewatched the dvr episode..what did chicken hand to jeff from his pocket when the tribes were leaving the temple?

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 8:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
Where's the tolerance for Leslie's beliefs?

There are many Christians who won't have any kind of statues in their churches because of their beliefs.

I'd bet that if the Buddhists had been told of her beliefs they would have either excused her or held the ceremony elsewhere.

Loppes
Member

07-12-2002

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 8:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Loppes a private message Print Post    
I'm glad Chicken was voted out.

On Leslie, it just seems to me when people apply for these shows, that they will have seen enough past shows which all have some form of ritual or tribute to the country they are in. Jeff seemed pretty clear in explaining to the contestants that it was not a religious based ceremony. I don't know what her internal reason was for backing out of the ceremony, but as Maris said above, I too have participated in a large number of different religious ceremonies other than my own faith - and I do it out of respect for that particular faith. It does not mean that I lose my own faith. I am Christian too, and I was brought up to have a level of respect for different religions other than my own. A strong enough Christian will know within themselves that their faith is solid. So, I guess when I watched her on the first episode, I wondered if she had any other motives, or whether by her refusal to participate, it may hamper her chances in the game.

Nickovtyme
Member

07-29-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 8:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nickovtyme a private message Print Post    
I'm thinking Chicken gave JP a cigarette lighter? So there wouldn't be an unfair advantage during the first few days...that's the only thing I could come up with.

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biscottiii a private message Print Post    
Thanks Skydiver and Foolscap! I stand corrected. It was bugging me lastnight after I posted & couldn't remember his name. You are BOTH right. Guess I didn't see the first episode, but haven't missed one since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor:_Borneo

Sonja Christopher 63, Walnut Creek, CA
Tagi 1st Voted Out Day 3

B.B. Andersen 64, Mission Hills, KS
Pagong 2nd Voted Out Day 6

That was the one where Richard Hatch, Susan Hawk & Rudy ran the gambit. That first show (2nd episode) that I watched later showed Gervase had to eat the crawling ma*gots and I lost my cookies (& I ain't talking computer 'cookies' either). Thx again for the trip down memory lane LOL!

Trini
Member

07-06-2004

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Trini a private message Print Post    
Christianity is forbidden in China, why would the monks move the welcome ceremony away from their temple to suite a Christian.

Wavewatcher
Member

09-09-2006

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Wavewatcher a private message Print Post    
from a recent post....Christianity is forbidden in China

huh??

time to close this off.

Nerovh
Member

06-12-2005

Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Nerovh a private message Print Post    
The ritual may have been a "welcoming" ritual, but part of what they asked was in direct opposition to Leslie's beliefs. It had nothing to do with gameplay, she could have learned just as much about the ceremony from observing as from participating in it.

I don't understand how she is not a "strong" Christian for sticking to her beliefs instead of betraying them for the sake of a game. It is usually much, much easier to just "go along with the program" than to make yourself stick out by holding fast to your beliefs. I don't know where in the Bible it says "Thou shalt abide by your beliefs unless Jeff Probst says it's ok not to".

A barbeque is not a "religious" ceremony, but you wouldn't condemn your guest as rude and narrow-minded if he didn't eat the hamburgers because it was against his religious beliefs.