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Archive through December 21, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XIX - Samoa ~ 2: Survivor XIX - Samoa: Finale Show, Dec. 20th: ARCHIVES: Archive through December 21, 2009 users admin

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Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
I think in a two way Russ vs Mick vote Russell would have won. But if Russell were choosing who to go against he'd have chosen Natalie, because she's the "dumb blonde" no one would have voted for.

Gidget
Member

07-28-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gidget a private message Print Post    
Sour grapes. Disappointing but not surprising considering this jury.

Russell's play made this a great season of Survivor. One of the best in a long time. It's been years since I didn't want to miss a minute of an episode. That makes him a winner in my mind.

But I agree with those who are saying his end game was lacking. Especially, literally. He needed a better presentation for the jury. Some of the jury members might have been swayed to his favor.

Does anyone feel sorry for Mick? He came across last night as "feckless".


Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
So no one knows who else voted for Russell? I can't figure it out!

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
I imagine it was John, but I don't know that for sure Karin.

Naja
Member

06-28-2003

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Naja a private message Print Post    
That "feckless" comment made me laugh last night. I used to have a private blog named "Feckless Bunkum"...LOL

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
Rumour has it it was John, but I don't know if that is confirmed.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Ah, thanks. I originally thought Brett would lean Russell, but now I think he had a big hand in convincing the jury toward Natalie.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:34 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I haven't watched the 3 hours yet but I need to chime in...

I did NOT think Russell was the best player ever. I did NOT enjoy this season watching his antics (and, in fact, even stopped watching for a bit). And I definitely believe that was the real Russell we saw in Samoa. Russell blew his chance at my becoming a fan in the first two episodes when he talked nasty about his teammates, particularly the women, during confessional. He did not have to act like a rude, misogynistic pig during private confessionals yet he chose to do so. That, and that alone, is the reason that I'm laughing that he got second place.

And someone... did he win "fan favorite" or did he win "best player". Because there is a huge difference there. I'll give him credit for playing a good game, but he didn't play a great game because he forgot one key element. The social game.

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
Costa... I ditto everything you said!! This is the 1st season I haven't made a point to be home on thursday nights. I was turned off by Russell and by Jeff's constantly telling us Russell was the best player. Yes, Russell played well at the challenges and strategy... but he didn't play the 3rd element of the game at all. He missed the social element. Sorry but for me he only got 2/3 of the way to best player status.

Some say that any other jury would have voted for Russell as the best player... but These were the players in the game. Perhaps that "other jury" would not have been comprised of "idiots" and "dumb-ass" women and that "other jury" would have voted Russ out early in the game. The jury was who got Russell to the end and Russ was not gracious a man to realize that he made crucial mistakes on his way to the end.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
It's called the Sprint "Player of the Season", and the only criteria they give is "who deserves $100,000". What "player of the season" means is up to interpretation, but presumably they voted for who "deserved" the $100,000? Shambo was second, but she certainly wasn't a great player - but very entertaining to watch. Brett? Who knows why folks voted for him! LOL

Iheartkaysar
Member

08-16-2005

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Iheartkaysar a private message Print Post    
I think Russell is the most entertaining player ever. And I think he could have won hands down had he shown the tiniest bit of humility during the jury questioning. This was his to lose-- and he lost it.

I think Natalie is a deserving winner. No, she was not aggressive, but as she pointed out, aggressive women were being voted out. She worked with Russell because she saw that he understood the game and would help her. That's a legitimate strategy. Let's be honest-- everyone else's strategy did not work. And, speaking of strategy, I think part of a good strategy is to not get stuck in one strategy. You have to be able to adapt as the game goes. She convinced the girls to vote out Eric. That was the turning point in the game. She befriended Brett. That helped her in the jury vote. Everyone playing this game KNOWS that the jury makes the final decision. Playing to them is part of the game. Sorry Russell, but you lost this-- ironically for the same reasons you were so entertaining.

Mizinvanccouver
Member

02-22-2003

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mizinvanccouver a private message Print Post    
Add me to those who felt Russel should have won regardless of his appalling comments/behavior.

I'm really excited about the next Season!!!

Does anyone know who voted for Russel and who voted for Nat? Or is that never disclosed?

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Roxip a private message Print Post    
Interesting edit for Brett...we were wondering who he was all season long and then he comes on like gangbusters...I'm sure he had a big impact on the jury when he told them that Russell tried to manipulate him at the end. Russell didn't have to do that...and it was heavy-handed (the funny thing is that I think Russell was almost sincere at that point but who could tell?).

It just showed his total lack of social skills in that he would even contemplate going back on his tribemates right at the end...and he should have told Jaison that he was going...I think that really soured Jaison on Russell's gameplay. Not to mention that I think Jaison has a high level of integrity and once out of the game realized what kind of person he had been playing alongside of.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Russ was a "force of nature who simply ecllipsed and dominated the game" but only certain aspects of the game....like finding HII. Otherwise he didn't fair as well as he could/should have to play a complete game.

He wasn't very astute when it came to not being hated. He didn't realize he was painting a big ole target on his back. Something Natalie was well aware of. If he thought, with this jury group, that he had a chance at getting their vote it then just goes to show he was a partial player not some savant of the game. Actually pretty clueless and completely off base when it came to reading people. He would get a failing grade for his social game but a A+++ for finding idols.

Any one of the 3 could have won and there would have been merit to each win. But it comes down to the jury (not the viewers).

Was Russ the most unique player we've seen in a while , YES was he the smartest player we've seen in a while, obviously not otherwise he would have made sure he had read the jury correctly as they were being sent off to Ponderosa.

He tried to get cozy with Brett but it was too late Natalie shored that relation up a long time before Russ thought it might be a good idea. She shored up many of the jury before Russ even thought about it LOL.

Iheartkaysar
Member

08-16-2005

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Iheartkaysar a private message Print Post    
PS. I notice that many are comparing Russell's game to Richard Hatch's. I believe that's a fair comparison. It shows why Russell lost. Part of why Rich won is because he was sitting next to someone who had burned other people.

On another note, that season is a tough one to use for comparison b/c if I recall correctly, strategy talk was not allowed.

Adven
Member

02-06-2001

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Adven a private message Print Post    
Naming Natalie the winner is like naming Phil Mickelson golfer of the decade over Tiger Woods because Phil had a better "social game" when what you really mean is I don't approve of Tiger's behavior so this is how I'll punish him.

Iheartkaysar
Member

08-16-2005

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Iheartkaysar a private message Print Post    
Adven, I don't agree with that analogy. Social skills (though Tiger obviously has a few :-)) are not part of golf. There's an objective way to measure success in a sport. Every participant of Survivor knows human emotions/social relationships are part of the game. You cannot mistreat and insult humans then expect them to support you. It just goes against everything we know about human behaviour. I wonder if even Shambo would have voted for him after hearing what he said about her on the show?

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kep421 a private message Print Post    
Any reality show where the winner is determined by a jury of booted players IS A SOCIAL GAME.

You have to get everyone voted off but yourself and have them respect your game while you are doing it.

Its not so much about "morals", or who likes who...its about respect.

I think Russel played a great game...but he didn't understand the respect part. He did not respect his competitors...he called them stupid, idiots and the like. He tried to project "respect" for some players, (like Shambo) but the majority did see Russel's game play as disrespectful.

Russel rubbed the jury's nose in the fact that he played them like violins..he was the greatest player ever to play the game and he was not shy about telling everyone he got booted that he got them voted off because he was superior to them.

That is not the way to win Survivor...never has been. And that is why the greatest player to ever play survivor did not win.

Gidget
Member

07-28-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gidget a private message Print Post    
I agree with Adven's comment. It was dead on. And so funny to bring Tiger into this.

Player of the decade is not decided by performance alone. If it was, they would simple add up all the scores and declare a winner.


Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I don't approve of Tiger's behavior so this is how I'll punish him.

Very true. That is EXACTLY how natalie won. She sure did not win due to her outplaying anyone. Or outwitting. Or even outlasting. She rode on a coattail of a sneaky, smart player.

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:21 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
If it was, they would simple add up all the scores and declare a winner.

Maybe that is how they did it.

Gidget
Member

07-28-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gidget a private message Print Post    
Maybe that is how they did it

AP athlete of the decade is decided by votes. And this isn't the thread to discuss it but I don't consider golf, athletic.


Lancecrossfire
Animoderator

07-13-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:31 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lancecrossfire a private message Print Post    
Dillon Ross ripped the jury vote in his blog or interview or whatever you call it. He pointed out the person who won in China did all sorts of bad things in the game, owned up to them but was voted the winner because the jury looked at who played a better game as the criteria.

Hence the secret to ER not winning. He had decided for himself what criteria should be used for the vote and that wasn't the criteria the jury had in mind.

I don't agree about him not playing a social game. In order to do what he did as far as controlling votes, controlling how people saw things and even thought, he had to have been playing a social game.

95% of the time he was playing social. The last 5% related to the jury. A couple folks have already commented on it--respect. They didn't hear his name calling in confessionals before he voted or any of that stuff. What he didn't provide was any level of respect to his oppentents during the jury interaction.

That is the social part that cost him the game. To his credit in one respect he was himself. I don't think he has the ability to respect anyone else. He feels he better than anyone else, that his way is right for not just him but everyone else and that what he wants is more important than anyone else. It got him to the final three, but his pure distain for all others in the game cost him.

You have to respect those you play against--not every single one if situations come up, but in general you have to respect those you go against. It's part of any game, if you want to be respected yourself by those who need to vote for you.

If he had said something like "the tougher a player was the more it meant to me when they got voted out because I appreciated the battles we had."

Things like that (if meant) mean a lot to a true competitor.

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
Naming Natalie the winner is like naming Phil Mickelson golfer of the decade over Tiger Woods because Phil had a better "social game" when what you really mean is I don't approve of Tiger's behavior so this is how I'll punish him.

I don't agree with this at all. Social skills have NOTHING to do with golf. They have EVERYTHING to do with Survivor. If you can't play the social game and read the jury, then FAIL!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, December 21, 2009 - 10:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Agreed Hermione. Golfer of the decade is decided on how well you played "golf." There is nothing subjective about golfing scores.

How well you played Survivor IS subjective. That's why they don't just continue immunity challenges until one person is left standing. They have a jury that votes instead.