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Archive through January 04, 2010

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XIX - Samoa ~ 2: Survivor XIX - Samoa: Finale Show, Dec. 20th: ARCHIVES: Archive through January 04, 2010 users admin

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Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 3:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
I looked up the number of idols.

For Guatemala there was only one idol.

Later there were two idols, one for each camp.

It seemed to me there were idols all over the place in Samoa. (Were there only two?)

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 6:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
In Samoa there were only two idols in play at any given point in time. But when an idol was played it was placed back into the game at which point Russell re-found it and re-played it, and they cycle continued...

Donnagg
Member

08-11-2007

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 7:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Donnagg a private message Print Post    
Did they put the Idol back into play in previous seasons?

Askme_who_ur
Member

08-19-2006

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 7:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Askme_who_ur a private message Print Post    
People in past seasons tried to hang on to their idols and not play them. I think this season Russell played them and often. Allowing time for them to be put back into play.


and on that same vein, He said he has his last HII at his house with the clue and everything that went with it in his study. The one that was on Ebay wasn't his. They let him keep his.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 7:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
The ratings started higher, dropped off when FlashForward premiered, then gained back as people dropped FlashForward, as I recall.

Donnagg
Member

08-11-2007

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Donnagg a private message Print Post    
In past seasons did anyone leave with the idol on them and it was put back in play? If so who?

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
Vague and unreliable memory: one of the years where you had to go to Exile to get the idol, I think it was the year Cirie was on, I think someone left without the idol and it was put back in the exact same hiding place on Exile. But I might be wrong on that.

Donnagg
Member

08-11-2007

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Donnagg a private message Print Post    
Thank you Kitt.

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
I haven't been a big fan of exile islands, but maybe that is an upside. When the idols are placed there you have to be one of the few actually sent to exile... and then you have a limited time in which to search for the idol. Perhaps having it at camp gives all of the players with idol time (pun intended) on their hand to search hour upon hour. (which Russell said he did)... Perhaps the idols were just too much this season...

Dogdoc
Member

09-29-2001

Friday, January 01, 2010 - 6:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dogdoc a private message Print Post    
Bon, I agree with you. I liked the idol being on Exile Island. I guess there was only one there at any given time.

I think when Exile Island just held a clue to where to find an idol, that is when they started planting two, one in each camp.



Konamouse
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, January 01, 2010 - 9:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Konamouse a private message Print Post    
I think the producers were tired of the idol NOT being played. This put another twist of unpredictability into play - which is good for ratings, but messes up preconceived game notions of the contestants (kind of like BB with the "expect the unexpected"). Folks may have expected tribal switching (which did NOT happen this season), expected exile (which did NOT happen), expected family visits (which did NOT happen). So it's good they change things up.

And yes, when the idol has been played, it has gone back into the game. And when it was taken out of the game cause it wasn't played (Ozzie in Fan vs Fav) it was put back into the game.



Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Friday, January 01, 2010 - 4:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
"My DH hates reality but even he would casually ask what Russ had done this week! LOL"

lololol!!!! Pamy, I hate reality sometimes too! I love quite a few reality tv shows though! :-)

___________

I love it when the producers change things up!

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 9:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
heee heee Happymom!!!! good catch! lol

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 10:21 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
I got busy for a few days and am just now checking in here. Thrilled to see so much continuing discussion!!

A few comments:

Someone up-thread commented that the FF4 could have been the FF6 or FF7 if Russell hadn't sabotaged the FF early in the game. I agree with this. I didn't initially like Russell's sexist attitude or offensive comments about the other players, but what was interesting to me was his strategy of sabotaging the tribe. This was something we hadn't seen before and in episode one I was shaking my head thinking, "what an idiot!!" It was right up there with Coach last season proclaiming that he was going to reinvent the way Survivor is played. Dummy. I'm convinced the FF lost challenge after challenge because they were weakened by lack of water and blistered feet. If the Galus had lost a challenge and had to vote someone out earlier, the game might have played out very differently. And as a note, I do believe the lack of water (coupled with lack of food) had a significant impact on the bigger guys like Mick and Jaison, who both acknowledged post-game that they felt like zombies and had the same feeling watching themselves on the show. So really, we could have had an entirely different show were it not for Russell's questionable strategy of purposely trying to weaken his own tribe.

A couple of people up-thread have suggested that the producers knew Natalie had won so they fed us Russell in an attempt to help him win fan fav. I disagree with this. I don't think the producers have a vested interest in who wins fan fav. I think they felt Russell was great TV and would equal great ratings and would breathe new life into a show that's seen sagging ratings the past few seasons. Also, since they had already made the decision to keep him over for S20, the over-promotion of Russell was a good strategy for building early buzz for next season. Just MHO.

A couple of people up-thread have stated that if Natalie had strategy we would have seen it. Well, I actually did see it, but that's because I watch all the clips on CBS.com. In some of those clips, Natalie was shown in confessional talking about her UTR strategy and making plans for the end game of working the jury. Now, why didn't those clips make the show? First, Russell was far more interesting (at least in the producers' opinion) and second, we might have guessed Natalie was the winner. Since the producers don't want the winner to be a foregone conclusion, it wasn't necessarily a bad strategy for them to keep the focus on Russell, as it's clear that Natalie's win was a big surprise to a lot of viewers.

Regarding "under the radar" strategy... let's face it... the UTR strategy has always been controversial, but is recognized as a legitimate strategy (even by Jeff Probst). As viewers, it's always more interesting to watch a player who plays a bold game. However, almost every season there's at least one UTR player who sneaks into the endgame precisely because they were so UTR nobody believed them to be a threat. Generally speaking, the UTR players display little strategic acumen and are UTR because they aren't well aligned and don't win challenges. I don't think Natalie necessarily fell into that category. She was viewed as a threat, but she wisely knew that Russell was viewed as a bigger threat and she would be better served to let him stay out front "taking bullets." Natalie was quite purposeful in her UTR strategy. It didn't happen by accident but was instead a conscious decision on Natalie's part, particularly when she saw the FF women all dropping like flies as Russell felt threatened by them. Natalie knew her own strength lied in her social abilities and she absolutely used that to her advantage. That Natalie is somehow viewed as unworthy of the win because she wasn't running around painting a target on her own back each and every day the way Russell was is just bewildering to me.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 11:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
Thank you for your thoughful comments - I am glad you checked back on this thread!

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 11:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Hey Titan, Love the discussion here. Great fun!!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 11:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I think that the Survivor producers have similar challenges to murder mystery or suspense writers. Most murder mystery writers don't want to make the killer so obvious that the reader immediately knows who it is but at the same time they want to leave enough clues that the reader doesn't feel cheated in the end. With respect to this Survivor, perhaps the producers went overboard in creating a surprise ending and didn't leave enough clues to Natalie's play to let the viewers have a hint of what was coming. Therefore some people feel cheated or feel that Natalie didn't do much to win. Based on what we saw on TV her game was more a none game than a game. A couple of brief confessionals (on the TV show) with an indication by Natalie that she had a clear strategy would probably have gone a long way toward validating her win.

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 11:51 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
I think that the Survivor producers have similar challenges to murder mystery or suspense writers. Most murder mystery writers don't want to make the killer so obvious that the reader immediately knows who it is but at the same time they want to leave enough clues that the reader doesn't feel cheated in the end. With respect to this Survivor, perhaps the producers went overboard in creating a surprise ending and didn't leave enough clues to Natalie's play to let the viewers have a hint of what was coming. Therefore some people feel cheated or feel that Natalie didn't do much to win. Based on what we saw on TV her game was more a none game than a game. A couple of brief confessionals (on the TV show) with an indication by Natalie that she had a clear strategy would probably have gone a long way toward validating her win.

Good points Jimmer

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 7:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biscottiii a private message Print Post    
Excellent points from both Jezzed & Jimmer! Great to see you back Jezzed, I was beginning to worry you might be having computer probs.

"producers knew Natalie had won so they fed us Russell in an attempt to help him win fan fav. I disagree with this. I don't think the producers have a vested interest in who wins fan fav."

Okay, I halfway concede this point, given your other points re: them over promoting Russell (I'm still a tad bit cynical). In one exit interview with Mick, he said that even though he was appointed "Chief" from Day-1 both Russell & Ben declared that they weren't going to work and nobody was going to make them. So, if they were not hauling water or firewood (forcing others to expend energy & pick up the slack), they were pretty useless to keep their team surviving or strong for the challenges.

Also, in the last episode, when Mick was getting paranoid & talking to Jaison. Russell had indicated he was going for firewood when he was secretly meeting Brett. Mick said something like "when have we ever seen RH go get firewood?"

"Most murder mystery writers don't want to make the killer so obvious that the reader immediately knows who it is but at the same time they want to leave enough clues that the reader doesn't feel cheated in the end."

That analogy blows me out of the water! It is so spot-on and I had never looked at the editing process that way. Can't wait to discuss with my Sis again.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 8:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
Jazzed - I m so hoping that you will join us over at TAR and share your insights with us there!!

Biscottiii
Member

05-29-2004

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 1:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Biscottiii a private message Print Post    
TNT: "Jazzed - I m so hoping that you will join us over at TAR and share your insights with us there!!"

I second that emotion!

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 9:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
I am also enjoying the continuing discussion in here.

Good points everyone.

My biggest problem with Natalie winning is that we didn't hear her describing her strategy in the final TC to the jury. Maybe that in itself is strategy. I kind of doubt it though.

She did talk about other women standing up to Russell and then getting voted out. So I see that part. Other than that, all I remember Nat saying is that people didn't think she could do survivor and she did it and it was so hard for her. I wanted a lot more. I wonder if she really did have all this strategy that others talk about... did Nat even know she had strategy that others have mentioned? (I haven't watched the clips.) If she did, she either didn't articulate that at the final TC or we didn't get to see it.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Nat has said that she believed Russell wanted the f2 to be them (Russ and Nat). Nat said that was what she wanted too. She thought she had a chance against Russell. She'd then focus on relationships. She thought that if it did end up her and Russ that because Russ didn't form any relationships and in fact taunted the ousted tribe members she then thought it was her best shot at getting the million dollars and she was right. She read the jury correctly. Russell did not read the jury correctly. And that is why he lost not only the money but the title of out lasting witting........ The game is about more than finding idols or winning the last IC. Some years the jury awards the physical or leadership aspect of the game and some jury's vote for the best social player, the player they like best. This year because Russell made no attempt at a social game they awarded the 1,000,000 to Natalie.

The game is more complex than some people think (Russell). If it was all about brawn, HII or just winning challenges then all the female winners of Survivor would not have been voted as the winners. None of them was the strongest or even won most challenges but they did win the jury.
Tina Wesson
Vecepia Towery
Jenna Morasca
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Amber Brkich
Danni Boatwright
none of these winners won most of challenges OR found HII. What these winners has was the jury's vote. Something Russell gave too little thought to too late. He played a one dimensional game and lost. I wonder why he hasn't been able to accept defeat?

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
That's an interesting list of winners Lil! I remember being sorely disappointed when each and every one won (except Sandra, who's finale I can't recall, but I may have been happy).

I guess I've never been a fan of the coat tail win. Never been a fan of the bitter juries. Never been a fan of flying under the radar. Still love Survivor and will continue to watch!

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
It's not the coat tail or under the radar strategy that troubles me that much as long as it is a deliberate strategy. Natalie may have stated that was her strategy after the show was over. However, I don't recall her expressing that strategy during the course of the season (or possibly Survivor not showing her expressing that strategy) and that makes her win somewhat less appealing to me. If they had shown Natalie doing confessionals stating how she was encouraging Russell to do the heavy lifting and that she had a solid end goal in mind then I would have been cheering even more enthusiastically for her to win the whole thing.

However, her main statement to the jury was that she was proud of simply surviving to the end. While the difficulty of just hanging in there for 39 days shouldn't be under-estimated, it's not a very proactive argument for a winning game.