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Archive through December 23, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XIX - Samoa ~ 2: Survivor XIX - Samoa: Finale Show, Dec. 20th: ARCHIVES: Archive through December 23, 2009 users admin

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Maris
Member

03-28-2002

Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 5:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Maris a private message Print Post    
so it is good to see him get screwed for a change.

Kappy
Member

06-29-2002

Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 5:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kappy a private message Print Post    
He didn't get screwed. He lost plain and simple. The man needs to grow up and accept that. I'm just sorry he won the fan's favorite.

Colordeagua
Member

10-25-2003

Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 5:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Colordeagua a private message Print Post    
He thinks he got screwed.

Seattlemom
Member

05-10-2005

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 4:26 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seattlemom a private message Print Post    
Russell Did it to himself! Even though I didn't like him because of the way he talks about Woman! He played a good game as far as finding the Idol and getting people voted out! But his game lacked one thing and it's something he seems to not have a clue about! The social aspect and how to make friends and influence people in a good way! IMOP

Adven
Member

02-06-2001

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 4:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Adven a private message Print Post    
If we're going to reward safe and bland game play, that's what we're going to get. As much as some people dislike Russell, if they replaced him with another Natalie before the game began, that loud bang you heard two months ago was the sound of televisions clicking off around the nation whenever Survivor came on.

If the jury is going to reward a boring, "don't ruffle any feathers" exercise in likeability over tenacity, creativity, a larger than life personality and truly inspired game play then we're going to get a pretty vanilla game in the future.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 6:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
Isn't there something besides acting like a misogynistic boor or being "safe and bland"? You don't have to be a jerk, especially when you are in confessional. You also don't have to be boring. There is a whole multitude of in-betweens.

I also disagree that Russell was a "larger than life personality" or that he had "truly inspired game play." Someone upthread said it... all he really did was find HII without a clue. And in an article I read, seems the HII's are now being hid in plain sight.

I'm not a fan of jerks nor am I gonna reward those jerks. If someone in another season of Survivor comes on and acts like Russell did, I'll just stop watching. I really doubt I'll watch the next all stars edition.

When I watch TV, I want to watch likable people or people who I can appreciate how they are playing the game. Russell is neither in MY opinion.

Kappy
Member

06-29-2002

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 7:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kappy a private message Print Post    
For me, the year Yul won will always rank as my favorite. I was glued to the set that season and he won with intelligence and the knowledge of how to treat people. There are ways to be interesting without being boorish and a bully.

Russell caused me to turn the show off more then a few times this season and in the end, he lost. As Seattlemom said, he forgot the jury has to like him at least a little.

Spear
Member

08-06-2001

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spear a private message Print Post    
I used to worry about Survivor becoming boring once everybody figured out that you can't be nasty to your competitors. However, that hasn't happened even after so many seasons -- they *still* find people like Russell who think Survivor is just a sport like football or golf. It looks like we'll have many more seasons with players who just don't understand its jury aspect.

Adven
Member

02-06-2001

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Adven a private message Print Post    
What if the jury was made up of Russells and Boston Robs who thought Yul was too bland or a phoney or whatever and gave the million to someone like them even though Yul was clearly the superior player?

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Yul should be who TPTB should hail as the ultimate player.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Personally, I always like it when the nice guy wins - but only if they actually *play* the game. That was true of Yul and Ethan in my opinion. They were strong competitors, they didn't ride coattails, they worked hard around camp and they they didn't whine about the conditions.

This year, I didn't find anyone like that. Shambo was fun but she couldn't win a thing. Brett might have been my favorite if they showed more of him early on. Natalie couldn't win anything either, she was boring, at least as she was shown, she was boring. I really liked Betsy but she was gone too early.

I usually hope for the *evil* ones to be voted off early. I hoped for that in Russell's case too. But as everyone else turned out to be so uninteresting, I rather hoped he stayed.


But in the end I ended up not liking him again. I will say it was a very *entertaining* season, more so than many others.

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Adven, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. This was the 19th season, and yet, it's the first time that I've seen so much outrage at the conclusion. As Costa points out, this is not a matter of one style over the other. There are numerous types of personalities and strategies that fall between "bold" and "bland".

If you read my analysis above, Russell needed to improve three components of his game strategy to take the win. He needed to scheme and plot more discreetly; he needed to "pretend" to be nice; and he needed to not come off as so much as a threat, i.e., he needed to not show off his hidden immunity idol. Russell's game was not flawless, and that's why Russell didn't win.

You seem to be forgetting that Natalie, Mick and Jaison protected Russell along the way, helping sway votes away from him. Why? Because it all comes down to who gets to the end and who they are (or who they chose to be) sitting next to at the end. Russell is that classic bad guy who any player should want to be sitting next to at the end because he's ruffled too many feathers. And that guy almost never wins. Because part of the game is to get to the end in such a way that nobody realizes until later what a jerk you were. Russell let them on the island know every day what a jerk he was. That's certainly a valid way to play Survivor, but it's rarely been shown to be a good strategy for winning.

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Kappy, agree with you about Yul. He will always be a favorite of mine. He played a masterful strategic game while always staying respectful to the other players. Yul wasn't the biggest personality, but he was always interesting to watch.

Adven
Member

02-06-2001

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Adven a private message Print Post    
You seem to be forgetting that Natalie, Mick and Jaison protected Russell along the way, helping sway votes away from him.

Of course, they were in an alliance with him. There's no doubt, though, that Russell was the mastermind and leader and they deferred to him. There was never any sense that he didn't have the final word.

I thought it was telling during the finale that Laura asked Russell why and how he got rid of her - not how did "they" get rid of her. Everyone there knew it was Russell's show.

Kep421
Member

08-11-2001

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:48 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kep421 a private message Print Post    
The jury doesn't have to "like" you for you to win Survivor... the jury has to respect your gameplay...whatever it is.

Russell showed his tribemates NO RESPECT...none...nada...zip. He beat them at every turn...but he didn't respect them enough to not crow and rub their noses in it every chance he got. That lack of respect for his fellow competitors is what lost the game for him. Nothing else.

Being bland or not ruffling feathers has nothing to do with it...

You have to beat out your competitors while keeping their respect...that is what Yul did...that is what most of the Survivor winners did.

Doesn't really matter how many comps you win (although it can help keep you in the game) or how many people you stab in the back...if you can stay in the game and maintain the respect of the people being booted...you will win Survivor...

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 9:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Roxip a private message Print Post    
I know he wasn't a popular win, but I thought Brian was one of the most strategic players. He quietly went through the game and let that horrible guy from Louisiana take all the grief and then soundly beat him. He might have been questionable in his personal life but I thought he played a good game.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 10:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Yes, Roxip. Brian was a great player and so many viewers just hated him. But he really was a savvy player. Russel was just too arrogant. I hate that he lost and I don't think even if he wasn't so arrogant he would have won because of they dynamics and weakness of this jury.

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 10:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Well stated Kep

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:02 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
There are quite a few who won the game of Survivor who actually played a "good game" in terms of the jury. The jury doesn't always award the winner based on emotion... there have been times when they've awarded the win because someone did play a good game. Even if that person wasn't the one I wanted to win.

But as others said before, and Kep just now... you can't win if you don't have R-E-S-P-E-C-T!

(BTW, I actually liked Brian. I thought he was sneaky as a snake, but he quietly did what he needed to do and I didn't care what he did in his personal life.)

Roxip
Member

01-29-2004

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Roxip a private message Print Post    
LOL...I thought I was the only one who even remembered Brian. He doesn't get brought up much when we are discussing past Survivor seasons, but I thought he was kind of a triple threat...he was good in challenges, he got along well in camp and he managed to align himself with despicable people that nobody would vote for.

Goddessatlaw
Member

07-19-2002

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Goddessatlaw a private message Print Post    
Brian was the most competent player I've ever seen play this game, hands down.

And I agree - Russell's lack of respect for anyone is what cost him the game, good call Kep.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I was a big Brian fan. That's one of the few seasons I can really remember. Most of the other winners and losers quickly fade from my memory. I'm amazed at how much of the prior seasons most of you remember!

Yes, there have been times when the jury members voted who played best, not for who they liked the best. And I wasn't always happy with that vote either. :-) I just try to tell myself to enjoy the ride and not get to caught up in the final outcome. It's not like I'm getting a million dollars. Russel acting like a jerk post loss makes it easier to get over him not getting his deserved win.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:36 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Brian was one of the most dominating players in the history of the show. It was one of the few Survivors where the outcome was practically set right from the start of the season. He played a tough manipulative physical game but one of the keys to his success was that he dragged along one of the most disliked players in the game so when it came down to the jury vote, the jury had very limited options. One of Russell's key mistakes was not keeping Shambo.

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 12:03 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
Excellent discussion and I agree with everything ALL of you have said.

Panda
Member

07-15-2005

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 12:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Panda a private message Print Post    
me, too! Also it is making me feel like watching past seasons. Every season is different for me-I don't always root for the same type of player. I didn't hate Brian, either.