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Archive through January 06, 2010

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XIX - Samoa ~ 2: Survivor XIX - Samoa: Finale Show, Dec. 20th: Archive through January 06, 2010 users admin

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Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Jimmer, I have to agree with you. As someone stated above, perhaps she did have more of a strategy as shown in the online video clips - but for those of us who just watched the show, she seemed to just "luck in" to a relationship with Russell, and then played dumb blonde. That didn't make her very appealing to me. Just less unappealing than Russell's arrogance at the end.

The show portrayed Russell as playing the game, right or wrong, every step of the way. It did not portray Natalie that way, and may have done her a great disservice.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 12:19 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I agree. I'm still not convinced Nat had a strategy, and I haven't sought out clips not aired on Network TV to prove it. I have to wonder if she hasn't been reading online all the justification for her win and borrowing/using those words to justify her win, because all I saw was dumb blonde luck! If she really had a well thought out strategy and the editors didn't show us that, well, shame on them.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
I don't think Natalie "Lucked In" to a relationship with Russell. He deliberately choose her because he basically thinks a dumb blond could not possibly win this game. Obviously he was wrong. A dumb blond and a woman can most definitely win the game. The game is so much more than brute force. It's a finesse game where interpersonal relationships hold a lot of water. This is something Russell was clueless about. But the dumb blond chick knew better. She knew that if her hunch about Russell being highly unlikable was accurate that he would be his own worst enemy and she was right.

Let's say Natalie's only strategy was making sure that it was Russell and no one else she'd have to face at the finals. And that's what her confessionals were all about....its me and Russ for f2, that's what she was banking on. That alone was a better strategy than Russell demanding the win because he played one part of the game very well (finding the idols without a clue).

All the jury members that were ousted was of benefit to ALL the foafoa4 not just Russell. The foafoa4 were more than happy to oust them all and in fact was the plan early on. It wasn't a Russell only plan and the jury knew that too.

For me when it comes down to it....to who played a better game I say Natalie did. She understood the game more thoroughly, was able to pace herself in the game, was able to find a big target (Russell) to be in the finals. If her logic was correct that Russell would surely alienate the jury by the time the finals TC came that she would be sitting pretty. All she'd have to do would be to let Russell hang himself and he did. She just wanted to make it to the end with Russell, someone she knew she had a chance beat. She was right.

I know people are in awe of Russell and how he found the idols without a clue. I have to give him big props for that but what else did he do to advance himself in the game? He can't claim it was only him that sent the jury because it wasn't only him it was the foafoa4.

Another failure of Russell's was not taking the right people to the end. He had no inkling at the time that a dumb blond chick could out Wit him by reading the jury better than him.

I can't say enough times that this game is not a one dimensional game there are layers to it. I don't think this season gave us the highest quality of players however Russell was one dimensional and I bet he'll play the same way again clueless/careless about the jury and he'll not win again. I bet he can play this game every season and find every HII and still never win because he lacks people skills. But viewers are still in awe of him because he found HII without a clue. And some think his misogynistic verbiage throughout the game, burning socks was way kool.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 2:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Natalie was certainly 'lucky' to be on Russell's team at the outset, rather than Galu, wasn't she? There is always an element of 'luck' in this game.

FWIW, there's a lot of supposing that Natalie did all this strategizing about developing relationships, but they NEVER showed that on TV. So maybe she did, maybe she didn't - one opinion is as valid as the other unless there is proof.

For her to say that she did it after she won has no merit. She could be rationalizing her own win in a self complimentary way.

I don't know a single person who thought his misogynistic comments were "way kool." But people are not one dimensional, and neither is Russell. One can dislike his misogyny and still admire different facets of his game play - like his mental toughness. That's not awe, that is just being able to view him multi-dimensionally as well.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
I'd say Jeff thought Russell's comments were pretty darned cool. Jeff constantly crowed about Russell's confessionals. So much so that I quit reading his blog.

I'd also say that if the producers hadn't decided to show us the Russell Show, maybe we would have learned more about Natalie and her strategy. I will say, though, that I think she figured out early on how to stay on Russell's good side to avoid being kicked out (the strong woman thing) and that alone is pretty darn strategic.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Costcat, you are way Kool ;)

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I didn't see anything in Jeff's blogs that lauded Russell's misogyny. In fact, he called him evil, a villain and untrustworthy. In the end he called him out (the finale show) on the fact that Russell was so deprecating toward the ones who helped him get so far and eventually won.

If there was more to Natalie, I also wish that the producers had shown it.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
This is from Jeff's second blog - it sure doesn't sound like he thinks Russell is cool in any way:

When I first met Russell I said to everyone else in the room, “That guy is pure evil.” But he’s on this show, he’s doing what he’s supposed to do – which is play Survivor how he sees fit – and I respect him in that sense. Making up a story about Katrina is downright despicable but so is lying about your dead grandma. “It is what it is.” You can get mad at me or you can join me in taking a step back and just listening and observing and hoping that karma catches up and people get what they deserve.

Personally, while I did like some ways that Russell played the game, I do think karma caught up with him.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 4:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
LOL Lil! I'd say you are too Kool too! :-)

Kar, I don't remember at what point I decided I was disgusted with Jeff's slathering over Russell and bailed.

And yeah, karma sure did catch up! :-)

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 7:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I think Jeff's affection for a good villain is being confused with affection and admiration for Russels evil moves. I always tell my daughter that most great movies have a great villain. Snow White has the Evil Queen. Dorthy has the wicked Witch. Hanibal Lector. Etc, etc. Good villains make for good entertainment.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 8:05 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Jeff just likes good tv, AND he likes people who are very invested in the game.

Remember, he loved Coach while noting that Coach was not grounded in reality, and wasn't a good person. Jeff just loves to be entertained.

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Titan and Biscotti -- I'm feeling the love! Much appreciated. Re TAR, I've been going light on that show the last season or two. It used to be my fav, but I feel like it jumped the shark after the family edition and just hasn't regained the level of excitement it used to. That said, I'll definitely pop in and join the discussion from time to time. When does the new season start anyway?

Karuna said: Jeff just likes good tv, AND he likes people who are very invested in the game.

I think that hits the nail on the head. Jeff is all about making great TV and thinks big characters are more interesting. I didn't understand his Coach love at first. I found Coach to be infuriatingly annoying in the beginning. But the absurdities that would come out of Coach's mouth became more and more amusing, and I loved some of the stuff the producers would do with Coach's footage. The "fallen warrior" episode where coach dramatically fell from the challenge and had to be carried off the field was reality TV at its best. Russell was much the same for me. His strategy of sabotage was absurd. His sexist attitude was infuriating. But the man hustled and thought outside the box, and I found myself excited to see what he would do next. I do think that's what Jeff loves about Russell.

Tntitanfan
Member

08-03-2001

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 6:37 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tntitanfan a private message Print Post    
Jezzed - TAR starts on Feb. 14th, and we will look forward to seeing you in the discussion thread!

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 10:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
I understand Jeff likes good tv, but his last comments were that "I think Russell was the victim of a jury of bitter people" and "If I were playing Survivor, no matter how much I despised someone, if they kicked my ass in the game I would give it to them. Period."

That's not just saying the spectacle of Russell was good tv, that's saying the spectacle of Russell deserved to win. And that's where we disagree. Not that we can't disagree, and of course of all people he can say what he thinks about the game, just his adolation of all things Russell got a bit too much for me.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 2:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
What Kitt said. 100%!!

Jezzedout
Member

09-07-2006

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 5:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jezzedout a private message Print Post    
Kitt wrote: I understand Jeff likes good tv, but his last comments were that "I think Russell was the victim of a jury of bitter people" and "If I were playing Survivor, no matter how much I despised someone, if they kicked my ass in the game I would give it to them. Period."

Honestly, I do think Jeff stepped over the line with this comment and, candidly, I was surprised and a little disappointed with his uninhibited support of Russell at the end. I think it's easy for someone to say what they would do in that situation, but ultimately, I don't think Jeff or anyone can say what they would do in that situation because they simply aren't in that situation. Juries bring to the vote the accumulation of their Survivor experience, so to cast a vote from the sidelines just isn't relevant.

I enjoyed Russell the TV character, but as my posts have all said, I don't agree Russell played the best game and, therefore, I don't believe Russell should have won. To suggest that Russell's flawed game should have been an automatic win is a flawed logic and it's the first time in ten years I've disagreed with Jeff entirely. I have the ultimate respect for the "game" and because of that I simply cannot endorse a win for Russell. I do think Jeff has confused great TV with a great game this time, and it may be his accumulation of 19 seasons of moderating the game that's playing into his opinion.

Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 5:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
I'll co-sign that, Kitt.

Bonbonlover
Member

07-13-2000

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 7:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bonbonlover a private message Print Post    
Well said Kit. I agree that Russell was "good TV" from a producers standpoint, but that doesn't translate to a deserved winner IMO.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 8:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
I agree with Jeff, LOL.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 8:27 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I agree with Jeff too! :-)

Mgmriver
Member

04-27-2009

Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 6:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mgmriver a private message Print Post    
Were the ratings high this past season? I skipped a few episodes because I thought Russell acted a mean spirited. His comments about dumb girls was offensive. Maybe he was good tv but I wonder if that translated into higher ratings. I was expecting some kind of disclaimer from CBS or Jeff saying something about the nasty words that were coming out of Russell's mouth. But that didn't happen, actually I got the feeling that Jeff was getting off to some degree over Russell's idea of what women were, dumb.

This season because of Russell has turned me off and I doubt I'll be watching the next one because he's on again. If he made derogatory statement about another group of people I don't think Jeff would have been as enamored with him and I think that says a lot about Jeff and CBS.

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 7:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Costacat a private message Print Post    
No, I believe upthread someone said that the ratings had continued a downhill slide. I don't believe the over promotion of the Russell character increased ratings at all. I don't know if they hurt the ratings, but I do know people that quit watching, or would watch only parts of the show.

I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna watch the next season. I thought Survivor jumped a shark with the all stars edition, and I think that's just what this next season is going to be. What happened to real people trying to survive, people who don't know each other?

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 8:09 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Survivor Tocantins Premiere 13.8 million
Survivor Samoa Premiere 11.66 million

Survivor Tocantins Season Finale 12.94 million
Survivor Samoa Season Finale 13.97 million

Samoa was up for the season finale over Tocantins by over one million viewers.

Samoa also significantly gained viewers over the premiere episode whereas Tocantins declined. To me that indicates that Somoa was a successful season with respect to ratings. :-)

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 8:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
And if I recall correctly, the All Stars season had great ratings. I love seeing old players again. Can hardly wait!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 8:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Overall, however, Samoa had lower ratings than Tocantin. Earlier I posted a link that showed the final season rankings for all the Survivor series. Samoa was 20th of the top 20 rated tv shows, the lowest ever (Tocantin was 19).

FWIW, it still wins its time slot, which is a better predictor of how well its doing.