Author |
Message |
Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:23 pm
He could have said something like, "Look, I'm sorry, I know you guys want to be sitting here instead of me. I know I lied and manipulated and did everything I could to get here and it worked. I'm sorry for hurting anyone in the process, but I did what I felt I needed to do to be sitting here today." Instead he was more like, "I'm here and you're not because I'm the best, nyah nyah nyah." LOL. And he was right, really, but that is not how the jury wanted to hear it put. We'll never know if he could have won with a different approach, but I think he could have.
|
Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:24 pm
ITA GAL. I was hoping Natalie or Mick would throw something at him or, at the very least, tell him to perform an unnatural act on himself.
|
Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:29 pm
Russel is the best example of "hoist with his own petar"
|
Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:34 pm
Maybe that was strategy from Natalie and Mick too - why let Russell know that he was playing a losing game and you had a good answer to his taunts? Better maybe to sit there and take it, knowing that if he did the same in front of the jury he'd look bad.
|
Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:35 pm
This has been a good discussion. I've enjoyed it and I really can see both sides. From a sheer strategic standpoint, Russell should have had it in the bag. But people whose feelings are hurt often vote with their hearts and not their heads and that cost him because he didn't plan for that at all. It was one thing in his game that he didn't plan for. And now I have to get out of house after being snowbound for two days or I will turn into a hermit!
|
Bonbonlover
Member
07-13-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 12:50 pm
Why does everyone assume that the jury voted with their heart as opposed to their heads? Maybe they felt that while Russ played a good physical game he didn't play the other aspects well. Thus their heads told them that they should vote for Natalie.
|
Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:03 pm
I agree, and I almost posted the exact same thing. Natalie played a good game and deserved the win.
|
Mgmriver
Member
04-27-2009
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:04 pm
Russel didn't even play that great of a physical game. He won the last challenge and it was a great showing of his determination but besides the last comp his physical ability wasn't that wonderful Finding the idols was more of a mental strength, first to think of looking for it and then actually finding them. If he didn't have the idols he probably would have been voted out at some point. He probably thought of looking for the idols before clues as he was watching the seasons in the past, brilliant. For me it doesn't matter if the jury voted with their heads or hearts they voted and it's a done deal he now needs to get over it and an apology to Natalie for his behavior after losing would be a nice start but I know that will never happen.
|
Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:08 pm
Well, that is just my opinion and I do believe he would have won if the jury had voted with their heads, but I am certainly not losing sleep over his loss. Often he made me very uncomfortable and there were times I just couldn't watch the show because of him. Adven, if Tiger had lost the Athlete of the Decade because the voting bloc was composed of the women he had screwed, then I might agree with ya. Now I really gotta go! LOL.
|
Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:09 pm
Russell confirmed in his interview with Dalton that the second vote was John. I'm only about half through it at the moment, but I think Dalton is as ticked off as Russ..LOL http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/12/21/survivor-talk-russell/
|
Trini
Member
07-06-2004
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:14 pm
The Jury disliked Russell and they used their power as jury to show Russell that they will get revenge and not give him the ultimate prize. Too bad the jury took it all personal and had to get revenge to feel better, because they never did forget and never will. Each member of the jury will talk about it until the end of time and will always feel good about depriving him of the $. Russell played by the rules of the game: outsmart, outlast. So Sad... it is only a game, I am sorry they could not see beyond the game...hate the game not the player.
|
Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:21 pm
We really don't know what Mick and Natalie said to Russell because we are only shown what TPTB in the editing room want us to see.
|
Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:25 pm
The jury only saw part of what Russell was up to in the game, I think the televised show was a real eye opener for most of them. Certainly Galu wasn't up on Russell's shenanigans at Foa Foa from day one, and he purposely kept them out of the loop when the tribes merged. Russell says in his interview that everyone who voted against him told him they made a mistake except Dave and Laura. Maybe so, but the jury made their decision the same as every Survivor jury does - in a vacuum. It was Russell's job to persuade them that he deserved the title. At this he failed miserably.
|
Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:29 pm
Do we actually know why the jury voted the way they did? Isn't it also possible that the fact that Russell was already a millionaire something that could play into why they didn't give him the win? I'm certain the televised show was a real eye opener for everyone who was in Samoa. I also don't necessarily believe that "everyone who voted against him" thought they made a mistake. I think Russell's ego is just too big to accept defeat.
|
Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:35 pm
Yeah, maybe they only said they made a mistake just to be nice to Russell -- a concept that Russell has trouble grasping.
|
Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:40 pm
I would tell Russell whatever he wanted to hear if it meant he would leave me the hell alone. It was pretty clear when they cut to the results show that everyone knew what was about to go down. Russell was already close to tears, and Natalie was all perky perky sitting next to him, smiling at anyone and everyone. In this regard I'm very disappointed in Survivor for failing to keep the lid on the ultimate results. Maybe it's like that every season, but it was truly obvious this time. We all know Russell gets another chance. If he's truly the Greatest Survivor of All Time, he'll prove it during this next season. Oh, and /shallow I hated Natalie's hair and makeup job last night. She's a very pretty girl, I think they/she could have done better putting it together for last night. Russell looked like his usual slobbish self, nothing new there.
|
Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:43 pm
Oh, I had no idea they knew the outcome before it was revealed last night....that sorta sucks!
|
Ladytex
Member
09-27-2001
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:47 pm
I think it's funny that the runner up said that after watching the show they thought they made a mistake. The entire show has been edited to be the Russell Show, that's why he 'won' Player of the season. The editing. Maybe he paid CBS the $100,000 that Natalie turned down to edit it that way.
|
Merrysea
Moderator
08-13-2004
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 1:55 pm
Just thought I'd bring Jezzedout's post from Friday in the Speculation thread. It seems like a good time to review it.
quote:I'm a regular reader of David Bloomberg's "Why ___ Lost" series at RNO, which he bases on his rules for succeeding in Survivor, developed over the 18 seasons. This year's article is titled "What Samoan Survivors Should Have Learned" (see link at the bottom of this post). Analyzing Natalie's gameplay against Bloomberg's rules for playing and succeeding at Survivor illustrates how well Natalie has played the game. 1) Did she scheme and plot? Yes, absolutely. She aligned with Russell on day one while also cultivating extended loose alliances / interpersonal relationships with pretty much everyone around her. She's very insulated heading into the finals and her name was never brought up in this last vote so she's well positioned at this point. 2) Did she scheme and plot too much? No, she left that up to Russell. In fact, when Mick and Jaison tended to get nervous, and Russell was like a bull in a china shop, Natalie seemed to always keep her cool. 3) Was she flexible? Yes, Natalie made decisions and took action as it benefited her position at that moment and was open to shifting strategy when the situation called for it (or Russell demanded it!). 4) This rule says "don't let your emotions control you." Unless Natalie decides to keep Brett over one of her original tribemates as we get closer to F3, I think it can be said that Natalie has made strategic versus emotional decisions throughout the game. 5) Rule 5 says "Pretend To Be Nice/Keep Your Politics and Controversial Beliefs To Yourself." Natalie doesn't have to pretend to be nice... she is nice!! And although we've seen a little more of her spiritual side in the past few episodes, it doesn't sound like she was holding daily prayer circles around camp or overtly annoying people. And in times when she did show that side of herself, it was with people like Laura and Brett who shared her beliefs. So I think Natalie does pretty well with this rule also. 6) Don't be too much of a threat. Uh, I don't think this was a problem for Natalie. She wasn't viewed as a physical threat and she was in a minority alliance so she wasn't any kind of a threat. Sub-Rule A - Provide food and don't be lazy around camp. From what we've been shown Natalie did provide food (snails, crabs, a rat) and wasn't singled out as lazy. Sub-Rule B - Be ready for the jury. I think Natalie has definitely considered what her arguments to the jury will be should she get there. We've seen her talk about it on some of the video clips on CBS.com. She is well liked by the majority of the jury and showed enough gameplay that there are a number of jury members that will, I predict, view her a more palatable vote than Russell. I've been saying for a while that I believe Russell should win this season, but I believe Natalie will win this season. However, after analyzing Natalie's gameplay against Bloomberg's rules for the game I realize she has in fact played a nearly perfect game. If you analyzed Russell's gameplay the same way, Russell would fail against a number of the rules. Russell has definitely schemed and plotted too much (rule 2) and as a result was seen as being shifty and shady by the majority of his competitors. While Russell did try to pretend to be nice (rule 5), he was never able to keep up the ruse very long and his true colors shined through. He is not well liked. He was absolutely seen as a threat (rule 6), particularly after he started showing his hidden immunity idols to everyone! And last but not least, the jury. It all comes down to the jury and Russell was largely responsible for the demise of every person on the jury. But beyond that, he is not well regarded. Yet to be seen is whether his aggressive gameplay will be rewarded or if he failed so miserably at the social aspect of the game that the grand prize will go to someone more likeable, or someone regarded as "more worthy" of the million dollar prize. I predict Natalie will receive the majority of votes. Link to Bloomberg's article "What Samoan Survivors Should Have Learned" at RealityNewsOnline... http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article10595.art&page=1
|
Adven
Member
02-06-2001
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 2:23 pm
Adven, if Tiger had lost the Athlete of the Decade because the voting bloc was composed of the women he had screwed, then I might agree with ya. I don't know, judging by the reaction of some to both Tiger and Russell, you'd think they were among the screwed.
|
Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:06 pm
Yep, but that can also go the other way, too, as well. Some of Russell's fans are feeling just as screwed, over something that, ultimately, really has no impact on their life. It's just human nature to react this way.
|
Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:07 pm
I think I used too many commas in my last post! Hopefully I didn't split infinitives or dangle participles as well.
|
Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:15 pm
Even to the end, I just didn't couldn't root for a single person this season. I am so glad it is over. It was painful to watch these folks. 
|
Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:28 pm
Hermione, ITA with your 12:23 p.m. post about how Russell approached the jury. I think that is where he probably lost it.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:40 pm
I still don't think that Russell did all that badly in jury questioning. In fact, he did better than I expected. The viewers saw all of his egotistical displays and nasty monologues and the other two finalists saw that as well but the jury didn't see it. I don't think what he did made any difference. That jury was never going to give him the money. His comparatively good play made them look stupid too many times. Now one could argue that was Russell's fault but he could hardly help it if he played well (finding/winning idols and eliminating the opposition against overwhelming odds) while the jury members basically sat around and did nothing. The whole thing must have been pretty embarrassing.
|