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Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:22 pm
Unlike Dreamz...I don't think Yau will go back on his word. but if you think about it...no papers were signed and none of it was binding, right? Does that mean that Yau never really gave Dreamz the truck?
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:25 pm
I didn't call Yau a victim although maybe he his a victem of being naive. He didn't see Dre's shadiness and trusted him or he did see his shadiness but thought Dre wouldn''t treat him like he trated the rest of the Survivors. So maybe he is a victim of his own bad call. I just don't see Dre as being the one to be blamed for Yau's 4th place showing....since when is it so wrong in the game of Survivor to go back on your word when it comes to the finals? It happens a lot on Survivor and other reality shows like BB. Contestants have to be aware that these games often are surrounded by lies. Even if Dre did at some point think he'd keep his word I don't think it lasted too long. He started pretty fast in lobbying to get Yau out before the final 4. It's not a big leap to believe that he already was thinking there is no way I'm giving up immunity if I get. Victim, I guess so and deservingly so. Altough your milage may vary. BTW I am a Yau fan x 10 and I never liked dreamz but I have to call em like I see em and I think Yau was foolish to put so much stock in trusting Dreamz to keep his word.
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:31 pm
It's so unfortunate for Yau-Man! Remember how YM mentioned so many times in the beginning? He was uncomfortable with Earl's idea of a F4. He wanted Stacy instead of Cass. He suggested not even having Dre in it but accepted what Earl wanted after Michelle's untimely exit. He does understand the game well. But Lady Luck has a big hand in these games other than just Devil Greed. What can Yau say? It just wasn't meant to be. Heard on the innertube that, he just won't go on an early retirement now, but he is open for anything coming his way. HHmmmm, ASSII?? He still might not have any better a chance but he deserves the fun and fame! Happy for Earl, but I'm more sad for Dre than I am mad at him now. I agree with many here. Dre probably did want to honor his words and hand over the II in the first place. But since he was certain that it would have meant being voted out the next minute, we really can't blame him that much. F2 turnning into F3, having Earl's lilttle remarks there, those all helped... I can't figure out why Yau-Man did not try to make open deals with Dre. Say to him at the Tribal Council, "I'll understand if you change your mind and decide to keep the necklace for yourself. But please honor your promise earlier that you will not write my name down." Stress to Dre also "Keep in mind all the jury members are watching you now, let's shake on that." I do understand Yau's words that Yau himself was being stubborn. He did not want to consider the possibility that he might have been wrong on making the deal. But then again, he did not recognize the great probability that Earl would in turn vote him out to increase Earl's own chance. Still, like Jeff, I can't phantom Yau not making a better deal with Dre. I was sooo hoping for a draw to give Yau a fighting chance. He never said anything bad about Cassandra. But if he was in the 2-2 situation, Yau might wake up and campaign a bit for himself. Did EPMB ever say why it's F3 rather than F2 these days? Is that here to stay? That deal changes stuff, too. Remember all the open deal-making, threats, pleads and campaigning we used to witness at the last IC amongst F3?
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:36 pm
I think what Dreamz did was was downright tacky but dont forget that Yaumann also knew exactly what buttons he was pushing with Dreamz and one could argue that he took advantage of Dreamz weaknesses by offering him the truck. Yau said it was strategy and he knew what he was doing by offering the truck to Dreamz, so Yauman was willing to risk it. What I dont understand is why Yauman didnt just say, you reneged on the promise therefore I am keeping the truck. Yauman didnt do that. So I dont see Yauman as a victim at all, he just let his confidence in his strategic abilities get the best of him. Just as Dreamz held on to the "belief" that he was lying all along to Yauman, Yauman is holding onto his belief that he could trust Dreamz that one time. Everyone knew that Dreamz couldnt be trusted which is why they didnt tell him they were getting rid of Edgardo and why Alex didnt want him to know about the idol. I am just glad that Earl won. I saw an interesting interview with Earl today online on CBS on the Jenna show. At one point Earl told Cassandra to tell Boo that he had the immunity idol and he borrowed Yauman's idol to put in his bag so that Book could find it. That never appeared on the show so I think we missed a lot. Jeff said on the show that Cassandra was a great player in the game and she played it so hard all the time he hoped she had a chance to enjoy the game. I do think we missed a lot of what Cassandra did which is why the hostility seemed to come from nowhere.
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Jami
Member
10-08-2003
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:54 pm
I wish YM had made a better deal, "if you give me the II I will give you the truck,,," or something. But I wish someone had pointed out to D that he would not win the million if cheating YM out of II(surely he knew that),,,and that as far as money goes he sold himself out for about $15,000 the difference between runner up, which was the best he might do, and the money he would have gotten for 4th place. 4th money and the truck is as good if not better than runner up money,,,and he would have saved his reputation.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:59 pm
FYI on today's show Dreamz said that he was selling the truck and giving the money to the group that helped him out he also called on the car manufacturer (GM?) to donate an equal amount to the same group.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 5:01 pm
Lilfair, I do think dreams intended to keep his promise, but he was thinking that in doing so he could convice the others to vote out Cassandra and then he could try and make it to final two. I also don't believe that he realized what his part of the deal actually meant until much later when he had a chance to think about it. But then they found out that it was final three not final two, so he had to change his mind or he would be out.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 5:39 pm
It would almost make up for everything if he donated the truck in Yau Man's name 
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 5:53 pm
Dipo, yes I agree with your statement only adding that I don't think for a second Dreamz ever thought he'd keep his deal and give the necklace up if it left him in any kind of jepardy.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:00 pm
If Lisi was representing women, I'd go sign up for sexual reassignment! She does NOT represent me! One thing I realized while I was watching the reunion... Cassandra didn't do too badly for just under $100K. She didn't seem to really do much on the island, she was almost a non player, but she survived on the island for 39 days and for that she gets half of $100K plus $85K. Not bad for just over a month's worth of time. (Less taxes, natch!) I actually have a wee bit more respect for her. Peeps kept her around cause she wasn't a threat and because she'd be loyal to whomever. I'm positive Dreamz meant to keep his promise, originally. But when he heard there was F3 (not F2) his brain immediately went into overdrive and at that point I think he knew there wasn't a chance in hell he was gonna honor his word. You could almost see it from his expression when Jeff told them about F3. I don't blame Yao for making the deal and then hoping Dreamz would stick to it. He received assurances from Dreamz several times that he would keep his word. At that point, that's all you can rely on. Although I doubt if I would've bargained the truck away, it was originally good strategy for Yao, too. I'm still not liking Dreamz though. I think he got lucky, flopping all over. Watching his responses to Jeff's single question during the reunion... he really was pretty clueless at that point. He had no idea what Jeff was talking about.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:05 pm
Yao must have been concerned that Dreamz wouldn't keep his promise and I am sure he discussed it w/ Earl. Earl must have said if that happens, he/they would vote for Cassandra, but instead, he voted for Yao and backstabbed him. Yao got screwed over twice, but it really was his own fault.
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-13-2000
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:35 pm
Maris...did Dre say that on The Morning Show?
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:44 pm
no he said it on the CBS.com survivor show this afternoon. He was on, Cassandra, Earl, Jeff. Great show.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:58 pm
I am still shaking my head and wondering if Dreamz can COUNT. What sense did it make for him to dishonor himself when there were THREE of the original four horsemen on the jury - whom he had screwed - Boo on the jury - whose ouster he had engineered - and Yau Man on the jury - whome he had just screwed. That is FIVE people on a nine person jury.
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Cndeariso
Member
06-28-2004
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:07 pm
who got second place since no one else got a vote? did Cassy & Dre have to split it?
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:17 pm
My parents used to always say to me: just because so and so jumps off a bridge do you have to do it too? Just because others lie and cheat and manipulate in Survivor doesn't mean I would personally lower my values to do it, too. I don't care how many people do it, Dreamz went back on his word and lied. Shame on him. Sure its a game, but shouldn't game also be played with some values? Well, I guess only if you want to be a good example for your kids.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:36 pm
Cnd, I think they combine the second and third place winnings ($100K plus $85K) and split 'em amongst the two. Since second place was tied.
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Puzzled
Member
08-27-2001
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:49 pm
He actually could have used his inability to think two steps ahead as an advantage. Meaning he could have argued that he constantly had to think and rethink his position and that's why he was all over the place with his voting. That's brilliant, Dfng. Too bad Dreamz couldn't work that out.
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:07 pm
Okay, if Dre really donated the truck money, that's great.(thanks for the info Maris) But what would be better is if the truck people(Ford's?) comes out and give Yau a truck. I kept waiting for CBS or epmb to show some love for Yau. I guess they think it'd be enough to invite him to play a second time. (Speculations only. I read that ASSII is really happening, Yau certainly could qualify as one. He might be targeted to be first one out, but they better treat him well!)
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:18 am
I guess what I find ugly in Dreamz's actions isn't so much his so called game play, its his "cheating" Yau. I use the word "cheating" because I really can't think of anything else to describe what happened. I understand the deal....I also understand why Dreamz couldn't ultimately keep his word...but I just can't get on board with the idea that Dreamz's reneging on the deal is actual game play. BULL oney!!! Dreamz says he never meant to give the II to Yau. Getting the truck doesn't really further Dreamz's position in the game, so cheating Yau out of the truck isn't really strategy. Its just cheating a tribemate... nothing else. That's why its ugly to me....call it anything you want... its still ugly.
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Trini
Member
07-06-2004
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:34 am
Quote:FYI on today's show Dreamz said that he was selling the truck and giving the money to the group that helped him out he also called on the car manufacturer (GM?) to donate an equal amount to the same group. I'll believe that when I see it.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:41 am
Yau's thought: Ok, I give up the car and possibly get to be in the final 3. Dreamz's thought: MAN...here's an opportunity for me to get a 60K vehicle for FREE!!! I see Yau's thought as Survivor strategic gameplay. I see Dreamz's thought as having NOTHING to do with playing Survivor. That's why I will always see what he did as wrong.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:48 am
Kep, I just don't believe that Dreamz planned on not giving Yau the II, but when it came right down to it, he didn't. Like others have said, he had no clue about the jury or he would have worked something else out. He really thought he had a chance to win a million if he stayed in the game. He didn't come out too much ahead of Yau as far as money goes.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 1:12 pm
If that were true Denecee, and Dreamz did not set out to get himself a car without having to give up anything in return, he would have not accepted the car when he backed out of the deal. I guess it comes down to which lie do you believe? Dreamz claiming he never meant to give the II to Yau OR Dreamz telling Yau he would give him the II. No matter which way you slice it Dreamz is lying... mostly to himself. Dreamz doesn't come out ahead of Yau in anything... the distance between their characters is as wide as the grand canyon.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 1:22 pm
Kep, I only said Dreamz came out ahead of Yao where the money is concerned. I was implying that it wasn't worth it for Dreamz to do that. I truly do believe Dreamz was lying about the fact that he even had a plan.
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March
Member
10-02-2003
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:01 pm
If Dreamz knew what he was doing all along as he stated he would have made the same subdeal Yauman asked for. When they were waiting to go to tribal Yauman asked Dreamz that if he changed his mind and didn't give him the immunity necklace to at least not vote for him. Dreamz should have asked for the same thing. That is he did give him the necklace that Yauman not vote for him. If Yauman had of told Dreamz he wouln't vote for him if he gave him the immunity than everyone would have voted for Cass.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:52 pm
exactly March!
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Rosie
Member
11-12-2003
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 4:00 pm
I wanted Yau to win! His not going back on the truck deal makes him look like a winner to me.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 4:40 pm
Since Dreamz didn't force Yau Man to make the deal in the first place, I don't see Dreamz as an ugly fella. He was offered a deal, he took it (IMHO thinking he would uphold it). He found out it was F3, not F2, and all of a sudden he's thinking there's no way he can beat YM. W/a F2 -- he could have won another immunity, and THEN voted out YM. With F3, that wasn't possible. Yau Man gambled big time, and he lost that bet with class. Dreamz really needs to grow up, but I have hope he'll turn out ok. BTW -- the truck was a Ford.
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Chy
Member
07-19-2003
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 10:09 pm
(And Dre said at some point that truck is worth more than 20G, more than 35G. The darn truck is more than 60G!!) Teach, Dre did not even realize the full extend of the deal. He did not see that, giving II to Yau means to oust himself! IF he did he might have tried to make a better deal like some said up thread: I'll give you the II as long as you'd promise not to vote me out! Yau could have a Dre and Cass tie, see where the chips fall and all that Jazz....
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Whoami
Member
08-03-2001
| Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:46 pm
The problem with all these well thought out things on what Dre should have done to sweeten the deal for himself (not getting voted out, etc) is that would have required him to think more than a step ahead. I don't think he's capable of thinking a step ahead, or even a half a step. He's pretty much proven himself to fly by the seat of his pants. I don't think he can even think in hindsight.
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Teachmichigan
Member
07-22-2001
| Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 9:29 pm
It didn't "automatically" mean he would be voted out -- just highly likely given the other three who'd be voting! Cracking up laughing at "I don't think he can even think in hindsight"! LOL
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Colordeagua
Member
10-25-2003
| Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:29 pm
Who, EXACTLY. That explains everything Dreamz did and didn't do. He is incapable of strategizing except possibly in the moment.
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