Author |
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:28 am
Trueheart, I know where you are coming from, but the way I see it is that to shake up the game someone would have had to make a move before the final 4. Probably while Nate was still there. As a poster pointed out Yul said in an interview that he suspected that Ozzy was going to turn on them and make a deal with Nate. That is why he went ahead and made the deal with Jon. Once that was accomplished, and Nate was gone, there was little reason for Ozzy or anyone else to turn. Even if he saw himself as number 4 with Aitu, he would have been number 4 with Raro, so it was useless to turn. And it would have made him look really bad. He had to have seen how Jon was viewed. Becky was not going to turn on Yul. She had hopes that he or whoever won the final challenge would take her to final two. Sundra was the same as Becky. What would turning on Aitu accomplish for her. It would not make her position any stronger. And besides, of all of them, I finally realized she was the most loyal. Once they got to final 4, they really did not have a chance to do much manipulating. The final challenge and the final 3 twist took them by surprise. The only question was who the third person would be and it really didn't matter. Neither of the girls were going to get any votes. The final days might have been rather boring, but how many times in the past have we screamed at a team that has the numbers when they turn around and vote one of their own off. Once they had the numbers, they would have been foolish to do anything else. Nothing they could have done was going to make their positions stronger. Now the interesting thing would have been if Sundra had won the final challenge. Who would she have taken. I think it would have been Becky. But Yul still would have won. As for as being competetive in the last challenge, I thought they all did amazing. They were hours on that thing. Even in my best days, I could never have lasted fifteen minutes. And by the time they finished they were on a tiny little platform. And that was over an hour. I thing that showed quite a lot of competetiveness myself. Sundra just blew me away. And I rather expected Yul to be the first to go. The men seldom do well on the balancing things. I think him squatting was the only thing that enabled him to last as long as he did. Of course I do not put Ozzy in the same category as other men. He is something special when it came to any kind of balance and agility challenges.
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:37 am
I have been thinking about this all day and one of the main things about Yul that impressed me was the fact that he had the idol all that time and ended up never having to use it. That is the way it should be used. The holder should still have it when it expires. He did an amazing job in that respect.
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 1:14 am
Trueheart, I know where you are coming from, but the way I see it is that to shake up the game someone would have had to make a move before the final 4. Oh I know not much "mixing up" was going to happen once the Aitu 4 were left. Heck...the moment the Aitu 4 were in the majority I knew it would be them till the end. That's why as "good" of people as they were, for an exciting ending I would have substituted a whole different 4 people (except for maybe Ozzy seeing as he always was a loner). Nothing they could have done was going to make their positions stronger. Yes I think so. If Yul was such a powerhouse strategy player and they were REALLY PLAYING survivor they could have joined up with Adam and Parvati to get him out. They could have done plenty to help themselves win the game (meaning Ozzy/Sundra/Becky). The problem is they accepted second place because they were such great "pals". They put their friendships over gameplay and that is what made it boring. This is a competition!! At some point in their "bonding experiance" they started playing for each other and not themselves. And this made for very boring TV IMO.
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 1:23 am
Oh, and I just watched SL for the first time today. Jenna made a very good point about not liking the Immunity Idol. It gives that person a feeling of safety that NO ONE in the game of Survivor should be allowed. When someone has the II you never really get to see them play to their "full potential" because they always have that to fall back on. I remember Ozzy saying something similar in the Jury Questioning. When asked why the other two didn't deserve to win he said that Yul didn't play as hard as he could have. He didn't put forth as much possible effort as he could. I would agree with Jenna and Ozzy. I always got this feeling of complacency from Yul and I think Jenna was right that it's because of the II. I would have been much more interested to see Yul's full potential w/o the II.
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:07 am
Jenna complains about the Idol because she has a big crush on Ozzy. She forgets that if it weren't for Yul and the Idol, Jonathan wouldn't have flipped and Ozzy would have been gone when Adam won Immunity. The Idol is not as powerful as she makes it out to be. It only saves you from one vote (look at Gary in S11). Terry was able to last until F3 not just because of the Idol but because he also kept winning Immunity. Yul used the threat of the Idol once to turn Jonathan. After that, he wasn't in any danger of being voted out, not because he had the Idol but because he set himself up well inside the majority alliance. Pretty silly of Ozzy to criticize Yul for not playing his hardest when he just bragged about his brilliant strategy of throwing a competition to get rid of Billy.
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Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:28 am
I wondered how the others felt about him talking about getting Billy out. It might not have set to well with a lot of them. To me at the time, it seemed a little petty and vindictive. It is a risky move and rather silly to vote out one of your own just because he annoys you. Numbers is everything in Survivor. It just does not seem to be a wise move.
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Jdude
Member
04-28-2005
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:55 am
Has there been any announcement regarding when Survivor XIV begins?
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 3:00 am
They could have done plenty to help themselves win the game (meaning Ozzy/Sundra/Becky But they didn't because Yul had his two little submissive women who showed him loyalty to the end and voted the way he told them. Becky and Sundra made me sick the way they didn't play the game. If Sundra was really in the game to win she would have gone with Adam to get rid of the idol and at least given them all an even playing field at F4. I wonder how she felt when she found out Yul offered the idol to Becky but not to her. Obviously, he did not have the loyalty to her that she showed him. And, to top it off Sundra had the nerve to diss Parvati for not knowing how to clean a fish when she couldn't even start a fire. That was the longest fire making contest ever.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 9:06 am
Another point...it wasn't in Yul's best interest to get rid of Ozzy after a certain point. He was protected by the II, so his being voted out wasn't an issue. If he had been forced to use the II he would have been a target if Sundra and/or Becky had won immunity, so by keeping Ozzy he took the target off himself and kept it on Ozzy. The Aitu group rode Ozzy's talents all the way to the finish and at the same time he was a handy target to keep the arrows from flying at Yul.
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Chiliwilli
Member
09-04-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 9:43 am
Ozzy was royally screwed by the HII and the F3 change. That game was his if it had been a F2.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 10:12 am
Ozzy wouldn't have made the final four if it wasn't for the HII and Yul's clever strategy.
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Lancecrossfire
Animoderator
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:08 am
Ozzy won just about every IC. He would have made it to the F4.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:12 am
Your serve Jimmer 
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:20 pm
I think it was a mutual thing. No matter what, the best two players made it to final two. But I still think they both needed each other to get there.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:23 pm
I thought it was a very smart game move to throw the challenge that got rid of Billy. He was holding them down anyway, why not?
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Mocha
Member
08-12-2001
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:39 pm
It basically was a F2, the other girl wasn't even a consideration to the voters.
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 12:45 pm
Denecee, it was painfully obvious that they would have won that challenge in spite of having Billy on the team. Billy did not hold them back as it was only the second IC, and the African-American team lost the first IC. I will never understand a team throwing a challenge. You just have to keep someone around no matter how annoying they are and when you really lose a challenge, it is an easy boot.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:12 pm
But even tho it seemed like an F2, if it were a real F2, Ozzy would have brought Becky and NOT Yul.
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:13 pm
"Ozzy won just about every IC. He would have made it to the F4." "Just about" is not good enough if you don't have the numbers. It only takes one IC loss to get voted out and Adam did win once. A strategy that relies on winning all ICs is not a good strategy because it's not realistic. So Ozzy needed Yul to get to F4. And yes, Yul also needed Ozzy.
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Denecee
Member
09-05-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:29 pm
Lexie, you have a good memory. I guess I just thought Billy wasn't a team player and needed to go.
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Lancecrossfire
Animoderator
07-13-2000
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 5:12 pm
Well, Yul did get Jonathan to flip over (which is the only reason the numbers changed for the tribe) by threatening him with being voted out. So in that context, all of the F4 would have been long gone if Jonathan had not flipped. Funny how Yul gets credit for that and Jonathan gets the blame. The F4 should give credit to Jonathan for flipping. Without Jonathan they'd all have been gone.
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 5:45 pm
"Ozzy won just about every IC. He would have made it to the F4." I agree. Ozzy won "just about" every IC and RC because he wanted to win it not because he was desperate. The rest of Aitu constantly struggled with either voting him out because he was a threat or keeping him because of their alliance. Because of their indecision Ozzy was never truly "desperate" for the win. That being said, look at how many he won just because he "liked to win". Imagine how many more challenges he would have won knowing that he would go home otherwise. I think If Ozzy had known as a fact (like Parvati and Adam) that he would be voted out unless he won, we would have seen Ozzy to the nth degree!
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Trueheart
Member
09-12-2006
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 5:51 pm
Ozzy was royally screwed by the HII and the F3 change. That game was his if it had been a F2. ITA!!! And I'm sure if there had been a million dollar "viewer's choice" winner (like Rupert) it would have been Ozzy. Somehow I think that (although he would be grateful) the "viewer's choice" win would not compensate for the loss of the "Sole Survivor" title (to him). Regardless!! If that man does not win SAS2, there better be a "viewer's favorite" winner!!
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Catfat
Member
02-27-2002
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 6:41 pm
The previews for the next season show it as being on Fiji, and they have presented it as being scary and dangerous, with Fijian cannibals chasing people and screaming. Or am I seeing it wrong?
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 6:43 pm
So in that context, all of the F4 would have been long gone if Jonathan had not flipped. Funny how Yul gets credit for that and Jonathan gets the blame. Who is blaming Jonathan for flipping? The ex-Raro members? What's so puzzling about that? I'm pretty sure the Aitu four are very thankful that he flipped and do give him credit for helping them get to F4. There were a lot of external factors that helped the Aitu members get to F4. For example, if Candice had not mutinied, it's very possible that Aitu would have lost an IC that would lead to Ozzy being voted out before the merge and Yul shortly after. Yul has said several times how important a role luck plays in the game and I doubt even Ozzy would claim that he could have gotten to F4 all by himself. I think If Ozzy had known as a fact (like Parvati and Adam) that he would be voted out unless he won, we would have seen Ozzy to the nth degree! So Ozzy wasn't trying his hardest? I guess that would make him a hypocrite for criticizing Yul's effort.
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