TVCH FORUMS HOME . JOIN . FAN CLUBS . DONATE . CONTACT . CHAT  
 Wikia  Quick Links   TOPICS . TREE-VIEW . SEARCH . HELP! . NEWS . PROFILE
Archive through December 18, 2006

The TVClubHouse: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor XIII - Cook Islands: Survivor General Discussions: SPOILER - Dec 17th (FINALE) Show: Archive through December 18, 2006 users admin

Author Message
Trueheart
Member

09-12-2006

Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Trueheart a private message Print Post    
As much as I liked Aitu I thought the final Episodes were BORING with them on it!!! I hated that it was a forgone conclusion that Adam would be next to go. He wasn't the greatest player but I hate to see anyone KNOW for sure that they are going and they can't do anything about it. I felt for him. The feeling of helplessness must have been excruciating.

Those four were so tight and they played it soooo safe it irritated me. I like it when the final people are nervous and unsure. When they feel like they HAVE to win the challenge. Do or Die. I just felt like it fizzled in that aspect.

ARGGGGHH!! I hated the predictability of those four! They kind of reminded me of the BB season with the "friendship". Don't be confused....I severely disliked the "friendship" and I liked all 4 Aitu. It's just.....boring when you know the outcome of trible council ahead of time. You KNOW they will stick together. AND even when they came to the point of turning on eachother THEY WERE SO SICKENINGLY NICE ABOUT IT!!! "We all agreed that we will do it fair and not hurt anyone by forcing a tie between the two." Zzzzzz...

Granted, Adam's request that Ozzy trash talk the other guys was kinda sleazy, HOWEVER I myself, was excited to hear one of them campaign against the others. I was so sick of their nicey nice sweet glowing words about each other and their "bond". PLEASE COMPETE for that MILLION!!

In every season, I have always wanted the best "strategizer" to win. But in the case of this season....I really did feel that Yul "hid" behind the II the whole game. IMO he was smug and...I don't know....complacent?....I'm not sure if that is the word I'm looking for. I just feel that he was in a very "comfortable" position during the majority of the game.

Ozzy's blazing intensity and heart for the game wins over Yul's clinical strategy by a mile. The way he talked about going back to their primitive nature...to humanity's roots. He truly understood the concept of the game. Ozzy was "the Dominator" in every sense. He was truly "born for this game". And I don't think he was any less of a strategist. He was in jeopardy of being voted out many times and he DID NOT have the comfort of an immunity idol to fall back on! He used his value as a provider wisely.

I was very disappointed that Ozzy did not win. I don't feel sorry that he didn't get the mil. I feel he was wronged in not getting the title of "Sole Survivor".

Sorry!! I know this was long, but I had a LOT to say!

Lancecrossfire
Animoderator

07-13-2000

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lancecrossfire a private message Print Post    
I'll throw my thoughts in, although from a bit different angle. I'm frustrate that Yul won over Ozzy.

My frustration comes from the aspect of reality. I've always said Survivor is a window into our society in general.

It showed to be so very true tonight. We had two different approaches to the game--Yul who did everything by politics. Ozzy who did it by contributing food and winning just about every challenge there was.

Look who won. The person who answered everything with a political answer. The person who, as a couple people said, just told people what they wanted to hear.

The person who provide food--the person who played with heart and was a "working class" player was beat by the smooth talking politician.

This is the way America does things any more. It see t all the time at work. Those in power--the ones who decides the fate of others, go for the yes men--the ones who go to the holiday parties, the ones who say what the ones in power want to hear.

The people who don't advance are the ones to are honest and hard working.

I guess I respect someone who plays the game hard over playing the other people hard.

Colby won every challenge, yet Tina won. What the heck did see ever do out there. OK, Yul was 100x better that Tina at least.

Geez, it took Yul all he had to answer a yes/no question either yes or no. sigh

Meggieprice
Member

07-09-2001

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:43 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Meggieprice a private message Print Post    
Lsnce I totally agree. I am very disappointed Ozzy did not win. The guy blew everyone away in the challenges and worked his butt off. He was passionate and real.

I am frustrated about the three finalists thing because Ozzy would have taken Becky to the finals and not Yul He won his way to the finals the best most admirable way and then was robbed of the win, IMO!I think even JP agreed!!

Kitt
Member

09-06-2000

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 12:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kitt a private message Print Post    
I'm see it totally differently, I'm glad Yul won because I don't see it as politics, I see it as intelligence. In my world being quiet intelligent and logical often means being trodden on by people who are louder, brasher, and more aggressive. I guess it just depends where you come from. I don't see Yul as particularly dishonest, and he was definitely hard working. Having intelligence doesn't mean you don't have heart or work hard.

(I'm not suggesting Ozzy was aggressive, just talking about society as a whole. Loved Ozzy, I'd have been happy with an Ozzy win too.)

Chieko
Member

11-20-2003

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 1:01 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Chieko a private message Print Post    
Ozzie was robbed! I agree he gave far and away the best speech and up against two lawyers. He was very intelligent---don't forget he was first at putting together the puzzle that Jeff said was the hardest ever. His performance at immunity challanges kept his alliance in the game and in the meantime he fed them all. I like Yul but I'm really disappointed we didn't see Ozzie win.

Longbeachbbfan
Member

08-17-2005

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 1:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Longbeachbbfan a private message Print Post    
Can someone post the link to Ozzie's Playboy pictures?

thanks

Trueheart
Member

09-12-2006

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 1:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Trueheart a private message Print Post    
I just have to say that in the finale I was extremely OFFENDED when they used the term "puppetmaster" and "Yul" in the same sentence.

AT SS there is a Who's better: Yul or Dr. Will? thread.

I was absolutely speechless. There is no question. Will Kirby's picture is probably in the dictionary under the word puppetmaster. I stated similar sentiments in that thread as well.

I am just incapable of understanding who would even question that!!!!

ETA and this is OT but...this was my favorite post from somebody over there.

Dr. Will has freaking mind control powers, just watch him work. He was able to be the biggest threat in BB yet make everyone believe (most of the time) that he was the weakest. Not to mention that he didn't need a HII to stay alive.

Yul can't even touch what Will Kirby is.

Beth4freedom
Member

10-24-2003

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 2:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beth4freedom a private message Print Post    
Someone said it above, how/when do we find out who exactly voted for whom?? Really missed the breakdown part...any idea how to find out!

Allietex
Member

08-16-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 4:00 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Allietex a private message Print Post    
I would have been happy with Yul or Ozzy winning, but although I thought both of them played a great game. I am glad it was Yul.

It is strange how on these shows different people see different things.

I did not see Ozzy having an entitlement attitude and I did not see Yul as smug. What others see as smugness, I see as just being realistic.

I think Yul is a very intelligent and logical person. And for him to deny that he was pretty much in control for much of the game, especially after he won the idol would have been false modesty. It would have been to his advantage for him to act that way, but it would have been dishonest.

There were times in the tribal council that he would say things that would make me cringe and I would feel like yelling at him that he did not have to be so honest all the time. I was afraid that his honesty would cause him to lose the game.

I think he was very uncomfortable in the role of "godfather" even while he was glad he had the power.

And I thought his use of the idol was masterful. He kept it secret as long as he was sure that he was in no danger of getting voted out. Then when he felt he was vunerable, he used it to force Jon's hand.

The timing of his revelation was perfect. Not so soon that the other tribe would force him to use it, but soon enough that they all knew it was a waste of time to vote for him. Everyone was scrambling to save their own skin by that time and willing to vote out anyone that would keep them in. To vote for him would have been stupid and painted a target on your back. The other tribe did not have the numbers and his own tribe could hide behind its power.

As for as him being manipulative, I thought that was part of the game. Isn't a part of the motto "out wit?" It was not designed to be just a physical game or just a social game. It was designed to be both. The whole nature of the game is that you have to get other people to do what helps you win. I just don't see why anyone thinks there is anything wrong with that.

I also think the very fact that Ozzy stressed how he played for himself while it was revealed that Yul put himself in harm's way by offering Becky the idol might have played in Yul's favor.

And Ozzy played it safe by never ruffling anyone's feathers and letting Yul do the tribe's "dirty work" and make the deals. So Yul took the heat for it and was labeled the godfather, but he also got the credit for it which he deserved and ultimately won him the game.

And remember that Yul was a very physical person also. Look at how many times he was second to Ozzy in the challenges. And I think some of those times were by design.

I think the closeness of the vote shows how evenly matched the two were. They played a great game, but Yul really did outplay them all.

I was rather surprised at the maturity of some them who might have held a grudge against Yul and voted for him.

Finally, I thought Jon said something that was very true. when Jeff asked him if he was a villian. He said "No, there were no villins. They were playing a game. Was there a villin in Monopoly? Was there a villian in a poker game?" I agreed with him. There may be people you dislike, and you may not like how someone plays the game, but to say they are a bad person because of the way the play is unfair.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 4:57 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
The person who provide food--the person who played with heart and was a "working class" player was beat by the smooth talking politician.

This is the way America does things any more.


Canada too LanceXfire.
I didnt like the heavily edited question period.

Judging from what we saw, I'd suggest Ozzy wasnt a good enough speaker and able to wing it. When ??? asked Ozz and Yul to tell them something that No one knew about them...Yul went on and on about being a role model. Then Ozzy COPIED that same speech but made it about Mexico.

It seemed to me that ozzy was just copying yul's technique and I really wanted him to lay it on the line.

Hey, I never heard a word about the 50,000 second prize. I thought the winner got a million and the runner up got at least SOME cash. am I wrong?

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 4:59 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sunshyne4u a private message Print Post    
I was rather surprised at the maturity of some them who might have held a grudge against Yul and voted for him.

that was the deal in order to get out Jonathan. Yul won the game right there. The others were not verbal during the Tribal Councils so there was never the knowledge that ALL four were working as one.

However, yul did a great job of Appearing to be the Brains. Personally I think Ozzy was gone much of the time fishing etc. The others wouldnt have the same 'bond' with him as they did with Yul.

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 6:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
2nd pl gets 100,000 and he won a car that I would guess costs 30,000 +....plus he won Americas heart......I am surprised he didnt win after that heart wrenching TC answer.

I balled at TC and then balled again when he said his 'dad' wasnt there but his Father was! so true!!!!

Missy2
Member

07-31-2001

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Missy2 a private message Print Post    
aaah Pamy, and he got teary on the live finale show. I didn't like Ozzy in the beginning but either due to good editing or...his personality I was really cheering him on last night... It was so close...they were both great players...!!

Lateeda
Member

12-01-2006

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lateeda a private message Print Post    
I'm late jumping into the discussion but here are my thoughts:
I disagree that Yul won because of how our society is "rewarding politics over working class". The vote was 5-4. One vote. And if you look at what Brad said, he had a whole 15 seconds w/Ozzy, that could have been the one vote. I just don't see the vote as being all that complex - a statement about society. I wondered why they started the jury before the tribes had merged, cause it meant those first few jury members could have had ZERO interaction w/some of the finalists. How can you vote for someone you've never seen play? Sure, you may see how they perform at challenges, but really? The interaction at camp is where people bond or not. With it being so close of a vote, I can't imagine people voted the polite one over the worker bee, I think it was more along the lines of whom they knew better and had worked w/more.
I was impressed w/Jonathan's comments during the reunion. I had not been a fan during the game so much, but he kinda won me over a little w/being able to distinguish between how someone acts in the game versus outside the game. He seemed very friendly sitting next to Candace and she had been one of the ones who called him the most names. Glad to see that!
I, too, would like to know who voted for whom. My guess is that in addtion to Parvati, Sundra & Candace voted for Ozzy. So the 4th vote would have been...?? Rebecca, maybe? Or Nate. I don't think Brad or Jenny would have voted for him. Judging by the time they spent w/him versus their relationship w/Yul, I just don't see them rewarding someone they never really talked to or saw around camp.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
I was totally pulling for Ozzie until Jonathan's speech. He reminded me of how kind of mean Ozzie was to Jonathan. He said some nasty stuff. So that made me think, hmm, at least Yul is pretty mature, ethical. etc. and would probably spend the $$ more wisely.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:23 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
If I were Ozzie, I would be ticked at the three at the end thing. If it were "traditional", The F3 (O-Y-B) would have had an endurance and O very likely could have won. He would have brought B (most likely) and then he would have won by a landslide.

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
What got me was how Yul, Sundra, and Becky kept saying how wonderful they were that the Aitu four made it to F4 and how loyal they were.

What? They tried and tried to get rid of Ozzy, and he only was in F4 because he carried them and then kept winning. S
Ozzie should have won.

Auntiemike
Member

09-17-2001

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Auntiemike a private message Print Post    
I haven't seen the entire shows yet, just read comments here. My take on Ozzie is, that while he had great skill and ability to survive (with his food gathering, tree climbing, physical agility, etc) he did not seem to be into building relationships with anyone. He was there for himself. Period.

Yul, at least, was able to fit into society by working with others to play this game. I also think that Yul had good strength and playing prowress to be a legitimate competitor in this game.

I truly thinks it boils down to Yul being more able to be social in a productive way and Ozzie only focused on his own ability to play the game.

I'm sure I'll get "blasted" for some of these statements. Feel free. It's early morning for me and I haven't unfrozen my brain completely.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:47 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Why/how is it okay for Becky (I think it was her) to say "Black/Brown/Yellow Power!", after Adam was voted out. If anyone said "White Power!" I bet there'd be an outrage...

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
They kept saying Ozzy was a threat, and he was. Would they have actually gotten rid of him if he had lost an IC? We'll never know. We see approximately 45 minutes of footage for 96 hours of time. The producers will show what best plants seeds of doubt in the viewers' minds about the intentions of the players.

I'm surprised at just how disappointed some people are at Ozzy's not winning. I can't recall another Final Two where I thought both were equally deserving in their own ways.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:49 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Auntie Mike, I think you totally got it right when you said

"he did not seem to be into building relationships with anyone."

I think that is the sole reason he did not win. Just think, if he did not say the mean things to Jonathan alone, he may well have gotten Jon's vote... He just needed one more person. So if he had gotten to build at least one relationship with a jury member that ended up voting for Yul....

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
Also, why did Adam not ask Yul the same thing, to talk trash about Becky and Ozzie. Do you think he was asked and refused???

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
I loved it when Sundra (I thought it was Sundra) said, "Black, Brown, Yellow Power!" My sister and I thought that was hilarious and we are Caucasian.

Csnog
Member

07-18-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Csnog a private message Print Post    
I'm not too happy about Jeff giving all the information at TC and during the competitions. Jeff interjected a little too much this season.

Julieboo
Member

02-05-2002

Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Julieboo a private message Print Post    
By the way, I was not offended at all when (whichever girl) said that. I just wonder why that is okay, but I know "White Power" would be sooo offensive...