Author |
Message |
Lori
Member
04-18-2003
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 2:58 pm
I really wish Ian would have held on for dear life and won that last challenge. Didn't really understand Tom's premise of "if you jump, I'll take you, if you fall I'll take Katie." That just didn't set well with me. He also made a comment to Ian in a sarcastic tone about "winning over the jury with your persuasive verbal skills" or words to that effect. Liked Tom throughout most of the game but the last couple of episodes, he just rubbed me the wrong way.
|
Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 2:59 pm
But Tom was standing there, telling Ian to tell Caryn that it was them 3 sticking together. That's when Ian slipped and said Katie. Tom telling Ian to reassure Caryn that it was them 3 is lying in my book. Spear is correct that it was Ian who figured Gregg and Jenn were running the game based on the coconut-chop-type game that put Gregg, Jenn in 1st and 2nd and Katie in 3rd. Ian concluded and convinced Tom of this. I don't think Tom should have promised he'd take Katie. He should have taken who he wanted, not out of spite or out of any deal, but as the competetor he brags to be. If that was Katie, great, but I think it would have been Ian as he saw him as his competetor.
|
Justalittlebean
Member
08-15-2003
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:02 pm
I think he meant if you give up, I'll take you with me, if you keep hanging on and fall and I end up winning the challenge I will take Katie.
|
Nickovtyme
Member
07-29-2004
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:04 pm
I seen Jenn on the Early show today...caught a few minutes as I was starting a job. She seemed very smug for being in 4th place. I felt she totally thought it entitled her to something...much like Cowboy on BB did. It really irritated me when she was speaking about Steph and calling her "America's sweetheart"...in a condesending fashion..."so we had to get rid of her." Had you not gotten rid of her Jenn and got rid of Tom, you might have been in the final two. I never really liked her or Katie.
|
Lori
Member
04-18-2003
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:08 pm
Yes Justalittlebean that's what he said but my thinking is "whats the difference?" Either take Ian or not. Why should it matter how Ian got in the water?
|
Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:08 pm
I don't think Tom had decided what to do at the point where Caryn cornered him and Ian about going to the end. At that point Katie was refusing to talk to either Tom or Ian and it looked like the woman alliance was solid. One thing Tom didn't want was for Ian to tell Caryn that she wasn't going to the end, before they knew what was happening with Katie and whether Katie was going to go with the women. Now the final challenge. Tom was trying to win the immunity challenge and he was trying to figure out how to encourage Ian to give up. So he says to Ian if you jump I will take you to the final but if you force us to both hang on and I eventually end up winning I will take Katie. Not complicated at all. Sorry but Tom would have been a fool not to agree to take Katie to the end when Ian specifically asked him to.
|
Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:09 pm
Spear, I stand corrected. It was Ian that convinced Tom, but I still don't think Ian would have taken Tom and definitely not Caryn over Katie. However, Tom already figured something was up by the remark Ian made. That is why he talked to Jenn.
|
Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:35 pm
tom definitely 'led the sheep', so he deserves to win from that standpoint--that they let him call all the shots. caryn seemed kinda wussy to me. i was disappointed that she ran to tom with everything she heard or discussed; she could have kept things a little closer to the vest, IMO. what i didn't like about katie going as far as she did (and we can wonder forever over how things might have been had ulong not lost every immunity challenge known to man.....) was that she was there ONLY due to the alliance. just because i had an alliance wouldn't mean i couldn't contribute with food, shelter, water, fire, etc. she seemed to have a smirk half the time and that bothered me. i really wanted to like our local contestant, but i just couldn't see much to root for.
|
Konamouse
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 3:56 pm
I wonder if you could play this game like Dr. Will on BB - tell everyone that you always lie. Make up wild stories. Have fun (but still be good enough at challenges that your team doesn't lose immunity), make a couple strong, influential friends and don't be too strong so that you are not picked off when you don't win individual immunity (unless you can win individual immunity at the end). 'squeek'
|
Cousin_jake
Member
07-04-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 4:09 pm
I agree, making an alliance with at least two strong competitors is a good strategy (One of many possible strategies) but it sure doesn't preclude contributing to the work required in your camp. I couldn't believe these girls. Jen said this morning on the Early Show that the tie breaking challenge at tribal council was the first time she'd tried to make a fire! WTH! Do you mean that in 36 days she'd never gotten up first and made a fire? What exactly did she and Katie do all day anyway?
|
Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 4:10 pm
TOM won and he won by physical challenges and by being able to affect people's decisions. Ian was manipulated perfectly into stepping down. BOTH men knew they could win against katie. By playing the father-figure to Ian, Tom seemed disapproving and critical causing Ian to feel like he HAD TO prove that he was still a realman and trustworthy. It is kind of sad that Ian stepped down in such a way. I consider that a QUIT. He quit as he was feeling sad and picked on. Both Katie and Tom 'shut Ian out' emotionally. Ian melted down. I would have liked to see the guys continue to sit on those Buoys until someone FELL off. Then it would have been Survivor. Poor Ian. I figure it will hit him NOW that the finale' is over that he made the WRONG decision.
|
Csnog
Member
07-18-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 4:27 pm
Tom as the winner is just OK with me but I wish he could recognize that he was called a male chauvinist and did expect Coby to stay with the girls. I don't think that they showed us all the insinuating, subtle, remarks he may have made because they knew he was the winner and edited him as the hero. There is a reason (not shown) that some on his team did not like him but thought he played a better game than Katie.
|
Peeper
Member
06-14-2004
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 6:00 pm
did Ian really step down out of honor....or was he just tired and knew he was about to lose.
|
Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 6:30 pm
Did Ian or Katie say they were still friends on the early show?? I have a feeling she used him the whole time.
|
Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 6:40 pm
It was my impression from Tribal Council that everyone had some issues with Tom, but also some respect. They just actively disliked Katie, her personality, that she didn't work, and that she was pitiful in the challenges. Seemed like a big difference to me, and not just in portrayal. After Ian stepped down, I thought I heard him tell Tom that he was going to have to fall soon anyway. Then I thought I heard him say he was just kidding, and could have gone hours. But that's just my memory. Pamy, on the Early show, Harry asked pointedly what Katie and Ian's relationship was. Ian answered nicely and said strictly platonic. Then Katie in her usual not caring about anyone's feeings way said "Ian has a crush on me." As if he were a young school boy or something. I thought it very unkind and demeaning.
|
Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 7:12 pm
Ahhh thanks Kar. I am sure women are falling at Ian's feet now anyway!
|
Allietex
Member
08-16-2002
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 8:56 pm
You know, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for Karyn. Yes, she was used, but she was just trying to get on the strongest side by running back and forth giving information. It finally caught up with her. It was a good strategy, but it backfired. That was her choice to put herself in that situation. How could she blame anyone for not trusting her when they found out? She reminded me of the woman on Big Brother last time who ran back and forth. Can't remember her name but wasn't it Karen? LOL I remember posts on this site talking about how Tom was clueless at one point about how the others were plotting to take him out the first chance they got. Think back, everyone wanted to vote him out at one time or another. They all recognized him as a threat, but they just waited too long. I think he was loyal to his original alliance up until he was clued in that they were no longer loyal to him. He seemed truly shocked, especially at Ian's admission that he considered voting him off. Up until then, Tom had never considered voting Ian out. I agree with Spear. He was not really good at reading people. It was probably a good thing that he was so clueless and trusted his alliance because he would probably have started trying to jockey for position much earlier than he did and ticked everyone off. As it was, he just went along believing that his alliance, especially Ian was loyal. By the time he found out, it was too late to counter his moves. And after he saw the episode on the boat, he will have had no doubt about their intentions. As for Ian dropping out, I am sorry, but I see that as more dumb than heroic. He was there to play a game. He got emotionally involved with the people there and it affected his objectivity. It happens to people every season. I was surprised that Ian let it get to him, he seemed emotionally tougher than that. The last few episodes, he tried to do like Karyn and choose the winning side. Then when he got caught doing that, he seemed to crumble. If he had just stayed loyal to Tom, he would have ended up in the final two, winning one hundred thousand at the least and a million at the most. Not blaming him for trying that tack, just saying it did not work. And I do not blame Tom for not taking him. He was the one to make the choice. He made it too easy for Tom. He should have just hung in there and took his chances. He had just as much right to try for the million as the other two. The other stuff could have waited until after the game was over. As I said before, he got caught up in the emotions. And did you notice he only became emotional after Tom found out. Would he have been so emtional if it came to voting Tom off? If he cared so much about how Tom saw him, wouldn't he have worried about voting him off? And if he had no intentions of doing so, why did he not go to Tom and tell him what the others were plotting?Even though he says he has no regrets, I find that hard to believe. I really liked Ian and wanted him and Tom in the final two. They were the hardest workers and won the most immunity challenges. Tom especially earned it. As he said several times, he did not want the leader's role, it was pushed on him, but he did it anyway. Those people usually get voted out early, but he formed a strong alliance and held it together for a long time. I think he is probably the "most deserving" winner yet if you define deserving as being the person who plays the game in the open, works hard, wins immunity often, and stays as loyal as he is allowed to be. Of course I have always maintained that anyone who ends up with the money deserves it because they did what they needed to do to get there. Some just do so more admirably that others.
|
Willsfan
Member
09-04-2000
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:13 pm
I don't doubt that Ian will have lots of female attention now. Those big dark eyes and sad look will reel in many women that will want to "protect" him. LOL He is such a cutie.
|
Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Monday, May 16, 2005 - 11:40 pm
I still think that Ian, like most men, was swayed by Katie blubbering on the beach about losing her 'best friend'. That, to me, was when ian lost his focus. katie was crying and really working it for all it was worth. Ian ended up crying as well. that is when Katie KNEW she had him where she wanted him. No one was there to make 'best friends' but a young and impressionable male was an easy target. IN MY OPINION LOL I feel bad that Ian MAY have a legitimate crush on katie that has lasted until now. OUCH!! Oh well another season finished. Now for Guatemala @!!!! that is a beautiful country but WOW i think that people are going to be eaten alive by the bugs.
|
Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 4:06 am
I understand why Tom told Ian, "If you fall off, I'm taking Katie to the final two, go down willingly and I'll take you", or something to that effect... Tom and Ian had an original alliance to take each other to the final two. If Ian stayed on the pole, insisting on winning the final challenge, that meant Ian was planning to take Katie....why else would he stay on the pole and make Tom duke it out with him? It was a very smart move on Tom's part because Tom didn't trust Ian at that point. And I don't blame him either. As much as I like Ian, I had no clue who Ian would have taken to the final two had he beat Tom in the last Challenge. Tom didn't either, and he was forcing Ian into showing his hand...and Ian knew it. So here sits Ian...for all those hours...between a rock and a hard place...if he jumped off, Katie would know he lied to her. If he stayed on, Tom would know he lied to him. To Ian there was only one way out to keep his friendships with Tom and Katie...and that was to give each what they wanted...let both Katie and Tom go to the final two.... FWIW...it was Tom who jokingly told Ian he was about to fall off, Ian responded by playfully shoving Tom off the dock...I found it touching...to me it showed Tom and Ian's friendship was still there...
|
Hootyhoot
Member
12-18-2001
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:20 am
Kep, that's just the way I would have described it. In a way, I think what Tom was saying to Ian was "If you trust me to honor to my word, you'll jump off the buoy and I'll take you to the final two ... if you don't trust me and you hang on, it shows me that you don't trust me and I shouldn't have trusted you ... so I'll take Katie." I really liked Ian's solution to the problem ... although I would have liked to see Ian in the F2, and I wonder what his thoughts were about Katie after seeing all the episodes.
|
Cousin_jake
Member
07-04-2002
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:15 am
Kep, I agree with your analysis of what Tom said to Ian during the endurance challenge. It became obvious to Tom that Ian was hanging on and trying to win so he could take Katie to the final two, not Tom. I was surprised by how chummy Ian and Katie were at the reunion and in the post game interviews. I thought he'd have a better insight into her after he'd seen the tv shows but I guess not. I still don't get that relationship.
|
Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:17 am
How can you get anybody who throws away a million bucks. <nd>
|
Native_texan
Member
08-24-2004
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:38 am
Kep, I can't believe I'm saying this but I so agree with you. Ian was busted and he knew it. I wonder if Katie ever had the decency to thank Ian for making that sacrifice. As much as I wanted Tom to win, I think Ian could probably have taken it from him.
|
Karuuna
Member
08-31-2000
| Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 8:18 am
As I recall, Tom and Ian had an alliance to final THREE only. Then they had agreed to "duke it out like men" (sorry, their words) in the last challenge. Tom repeated that several times during the last episodes. I think both of them knew that whoever won the final challenge had the right to choose Katie if they wanted to. At least that was my impression of things.
|
|
|
|