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SPOILER *** 12-12-04 *** FINALE SHOW!...

The TVClubHouse: Survivor VIII - Vanuatu: Survivor VIII - Vanuatu: General Discussions: Show Night Spoilers: SPOILER *** 12-12-04 *** FINALE SHOW! users admin

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Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Eeyores, I thought the reunion was actually quite kind toward Ms Twila. I think the audience was sympathetic toward her and that the rest of the Survivors were, too, after they had seen Chris's duplicitous actions. All in all, I think she got quite a fair shake, but I might be wrong...and I was even sympathetic toward her [although I almost rethought that after I saw her hair-don't].

She was also fortunate that she had Scout as a voice of reason, if only because Scout provided a much more sage-like, mature voice in the TC than she did in Survivor's vie quotidienne.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
(pssst..Tish.....I wrote to you in your folder....)

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:10 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I find it fascinating that those who think Twila should've won think the jury members who voted against her were childish. LOL!

My opinion coincides with Jimmer's thoughts.

IMO, the person who deserved to win won, Chris. Period. He received the votes irregardless of whether he received them with honesty or not.

As far as Chris telling more lies than Twila, is that really true? Twila lied to the men and Sarge when voting out Rory and then Chad. Twila lied to the women by breaking the women's alliance and keeping Chris. And so on and so on. Chris had his share of lies too. However, I don't think Twila is some pillar of honesty next to Chris and therefore deserved the money over him.

Oh, and to those that feel Twila "instantly" regretted her swearing on her son; I disagree. During a camera talk she said that if she wins a million dollars she figures her son would get over it (all the while smiling and laughing.) At tribal council she didn't seem upset either when Ami called her out on it. She said everyone has lied in the game and this time she did. Get over it, I believe were her words.

I think Jimmer makes an excellent point about honesty. It's one thing to be honest with people; it's wholly something else to be brutally honest to the point of insulting someone. IMO, that's where Twila made her mistake. Many times she came across as rude and crass, not honest. Survivor is as much a social game as it is a physical and mental game.

Also, Chris won the last two critical immunity challenges; he gets points for that.

As for the jury and their, at times, quite harsh comments; well, they're human beings. And as Julie pointed out, human nature just takes over. IMO, the jury members were letting out their raw emotions. They don't have friends or family members who they can talk to in order to relieve some of the anger. As a result, they stew in it. The emotions that came out were not that surprising to me.

The jury can vote any way they want, whether it's based on game play, strength, or emotion.

Also, Survivor isn't about need. I don't understand the point of Jeff's mentioning how Twila worked 3 jobs year round and doesn't have much money. Was it to make those who didn't vote for her feel bad? I dunno, just thought it was weird. Heck, Bill Gates could go on Survivor and if he made the final two and I felt he deserved the win, I'd give him my vote.

Thoughts about the jury and final two:

Sarge: I think he was very angry with Twila. He had bonded with her, she told him her word was gold, and then she votes him out. He felt personally betrayed and that was reflected in his jury Q&A.

Chad: I expected him to vote for Chris. Like Sarge, I think he felt betrayed by Twila at the merge and wasn't going to vote for her. She did nothing to earn his vote.

Leann: Again, like the others, felt betrayed by Twila. Twila swears on her son that she's still with the women and then Leann is voted out.

Ami: As Ami stated, her vote went to Twila because Twila was the person who got her out of the game. Had Chris gotten Ami out of the game, I believe she would've voted for him.

Julie: Bonded with Chris and, despite his lying to her and her being voted out, felt he deserved to win. I do think, though, that if she could she would possibly change her vote to Twila. (Wouldn't help Twila win though.)

Eliza: Was anyone surprised that Eliza didn't vote for Twila to win??? LOL! Maybe Twila didn't think it was worth the effort to build a bridge and earn Eliza's vote; maybe she felt she didn't need it. Who knows. However, I don't think Eliza wanted an apology for the lying. I think she wanted an apology for the way Twila treated her; and I think Twila treated her like crap. Twila lost Eliza's vote the minute she said to Eliza that she didn't deserve to be there. (Where was Scout with the self-righteous comment then??? LOL!)

Scout: Isn't it self-righteous to call others self-righteous? LOL! Scout can sit there and tsk tsk the other jury members, but she should look in the mirror too. She wasn't very nice to Eliza either and treated her poorly as well.

Chris: Went from being almost the first person voted out to winning the game. Most impressive imo. Not only that, but looked to be good as gone when he didn't win immunity the week with his fiance. And then, get's an opportunity and runs with it. He didn't just ride coattails to the end. He was instrumental in getting to the end and winning. He kept his cool when it looked like he was gone. He took the time to get to know people and make moves that didn't anger others (too much.) And, if he did, it wasn't to the point where they felt betrayed by him. He also won two key immunity challenges in order to give him the best opportunity to win the game. At final four, boots the younger person who could challenge him the hardest for the endurance challenge. At final three, keeps the person he has the best chance of beating in the end. He played a great game.

Twila: Oh Twila. Well, I think she played a good physical and mental game of Survivor. However, she failed at the social game miserably. I knew that if Twila made the final two she wouldn't win the game. Not only had she betrayed the men on the jury, but she betrayed some of the women too. While she made good game moves to get her to the end, she did it while running people over and then giving them the finger in her rear view mirror. You just can't expect people to award you money with this type of strategy. In Survivor you MUST consider human nature, the juries feelings and their emotions. While some may not vote based on that (ie: Ami), most will. As Jimmer said, you can be honest but you can't be abusive and nasty about it. Twila was. As far as the big "lie" on her son, well, you reap what you sow. Some lies people can accept, others they can't; or, it takes time too.

Want to know what I find so ironic? She felt she had a better chance of winning the game by breaking up the women's alliance. However, that move, imo, contributed to her loss. One has to wonder how Twila would've done if Chris had gone instead of Leann and then the order went the way it did; with Twila against Scout. I think she would've won.

(Tish, SO AGREE about the hair don't. Ugh!)

Overall, a decent season of Survivor. Not an all time best but much better than All Stars. Onto the next one...

YIKES! Sorry this is so long. Didn't realize it. LOL!

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 1:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Anyone besides me find it awfully funny that Chris's fiance did NOT seem very happy??

Bet she is a little afraid of how much his character is going to change now that he has the Big Bucks.(like his character supposedly 'changed' during the game) Bet every young lady in a short skirt is going to be catching his eye....SIGH. Bet she's worried, I'd be ROTFL. Just my opinion LOL


Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 2:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Chris's fiance gave him a pretty big hug when he won and at the end of the show. Didn't seem unhappy to me.

Jasper
Member

09-14-2000

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 9:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Wendo you're post was bang on!

Someone said Chris was duplicitous, but in the gamut of this particular game I think he just played very well manuveuring himself into a great position every chance he got. (I thought the fiancee looked really surprised, remember she did think he got booted when she was there, who knows how that had been playing on her mind, but not unhappy, his family certainly looked thrilled, big personalities that might have overshadowed her there, only time will tell, but I wouldn't judge Chris too harshly)

Jasper
Member

09-14-2000

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 9:06 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
PS - I'm one of those who rooted for Richard and Brian, I thought they both played good games.

Marej
Member

09-20-2002

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:24 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Did anyone notice during jury questioning; when one of them was talking to C or T; Ami did this seductive tongue licking her lips thing.

Eeyoreslament
Member

07-20-2003

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Maybe there was some great pot in Vanuatu.

Karen
Member

09-07-2004

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL Eeyore! I noticed that too, Marej.

Watching2
Member

07-07-2001

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 1:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Great post, Wendo!

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 1:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Right on, Wendo.

Twila's behaviour is a classic case of, "Be careful who you step on on the way up, because they'll be stepping on you on the way down."

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 2:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
:-)

Just elucidating further on Jimmer's thoughts.

Jimmer
Member

08-30-2000

Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 6:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Why Wendo, I'm honoured!!!

Actually, I think that you really clarified how I feel about it. Ironically, Twila's directness and abruptness (to put it politely) in dealing with other tribe members she didn't like, gave an impression of honesty that really wasn't supported by her game play. She was honest, but in a nasty negative sense, in her social relationships, but dishonest in her alliances.

I'm not saying that there is anything inherently wrong with that type of game play, but it is not a winning strategy.

Wendo
Member

08-07-2000

Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:08 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Totally agree Jimmer.

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 1:25 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ROTFL Twila was the most HONEST about the alliances and the SWITCHING of alliances. IN a number of episodes we saw Twila really going 'back n forth' in her mind as to what she should do. Chris and Sarge would come bully her until she'd give a commitment and then the Girls would come and harp at her until Twila Broke down and RECOMMITED herself to the All girl alliance.

In my opinion, Twila showed herself to be weak in that way. The gameplay affected her emotionally and made her cranky. Others could let it roll off their backs as they found it MUCH easier to LIE right to people's faces. Twila did not, she seemed tortured with indecision many times.

Anyways, Game over. Til next season!

Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 8:55 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Actually, I'd disagree with the Twila did not, she seemed tortured with indecision many times" assessment. She was actually laughing about swearing on her son to Leann and Ami. I didn't find her anguishing over her decisions at all. I found her anguishing over WHICH decision would benefit her MOST, but not about having to lie about any of 'em. Twila went back and forth cause she thought she could get further that way. Not cause she felt any allegiance to anyone else. My opinion.

Sorry... still find this season a bit distasteful. And after the fiasco that was The Apprentice finale, I'm feeling really burned this season.