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Loremma
Member
04-25-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:40 pm
People keep talking about Cochran (here and on the show) sticking with his tribe instead of switching to be with Coach he would have done better. I don't agree. First off, I don't see anyone on his tribe doing anything to bring Cochran along farther into the game. He was the easy vote off on their tribe if need be. Second, if they did the draw the rock out of the bag thing, there was no guarantee one of his original tribe would have been safe. What if they did the rock pick and Jim was sent home? How would that have furthered Cochran's game? Cochran's tribe would be down 5-6 and his tribe would have been picked off one by one, same as what happened. I see Cochran did what he felt he could to get farther into the game. Didn't work, but he wasn't going to go far in his own tribe, certainly not to the end. His original tribe disliked him too much to bring him to the end. And the Upola tribe could have been swayed to Cochran's side and voted for him to win the million if he was in the finals with Jim and Keith - or any 2 other people from his original tribe.
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:46 pm
I get where Cochran was trying to illustrate a cult family and Manson is very famous. I agree that having lived not far from the murders it was a time I will never forget. But I find it interesting that we joke all the time about 'drinking the koolaid' when Jim Jones murdered over 900 followers including about 1/3 children. And I never hear anyone mention how tasteless that analogy is.
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:48 pm
Actually, in the recap clips, LOTS of Savaii people were talking about taking him to the final three because they didn't see him as a threat to potentially win the million dollars, so I don't think it's true that they weren't going to bring him to the end. Besides, judging from Sophie's comments last night, Cochran seems not to wear well--she became increasingly disenchanted with him the longer he was around, so it's not really clear to me that he would have won if he were in the finals with Ozzy or Keith or Jim and certainly not Dawn.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:51 pm
Exactly Loremma. Glad there are others that see it like I do. Cochran was in a no win situation and he made his best move. It didn't work, but he can't be blamed for not trying. Draw a rock? Never! Good point Gidget. I don't find either offensive, but can see how others might. Both were horrible things, in the past, and now a part of pop culture. I'm actually surprised someone Cochran's age knew about the Manson murders. Shows just how much they remain a part of our culture.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:53 pm
I don't see any scenario where Cochran would have won. I think he did wear on people. I think Couch would have liked to take him along because he would have been easy to beat.
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Merrysea
Moderator
08-13-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 1:11 pm
From Dalton's recap:
quote:He went from having a 14 percent chance of going home by pulling a colored rock to a zero percent chance of winning by not pulling rocks. Why do I keep italicizing random words? Because I’m just so gosh-darn mad at John. I’ve been pretty harsh on the guy, but only because I had such high hopes for him. I love it when big fans get on the show, especially ones that seem ready to do awesome, devious things. But he got scared and panicked. John couldn’t have been more correct than when he said, at the end of this episode, “I feel Upolu used me.” Of course they used you! You know what that makes them? BULLIES! Apparently everyone who plays Survivor is a big bully.
Dalton Ross Episode 12 Recap
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:04 pm
But the problem is Cochran didn't know any of the Savaii members wanted to take him to the Final Three. Every week they kept threatening to vote him out. Had any of the Savaii made a Final Three with Cochran and stopped threatening him, he would have never flipped. I'm sure it was news to him after they finished filming that they wanted him for Final Three - after Ozzy asked him how to correctly spell his name for when he wrote it down at TC.
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:05 pm
I also "got" where Cochran was coming from with the Manson/cult references.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:19 pm
I am not sorry to see Cochran go. For such a fan of Survivor, he should have prepared himself before going. Survivor skills, bulking up, anything to give himself a chance at challenges. You don't have to win challenges, you sometimes just need to stay in longer at them to get others knocked out.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:26 pm
Lexie, completely Right ON ;)! no one bothered to tell Cochran that he was in their f3. NO one not one single person on Team Ozzy played this game with any sort of thought. I think they were over confident right from the start when they decided to sunbathe and frolic in the ocean instead of building shelter or fire. They were doomed from the start and Chocran was only a pawn for them. I'd vote for them to go down in Survivor history as one of the worst teams to ever play the game.
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Jewels
Member
09-22-2000
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:30 pm
Bravo, Lilfair. 
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:35 pm
I wonder how Cochran would have fared if he had been on Coach's original team?
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 2:51 pm
Gidget, I honestly think he would have fared much better than Edna or Brandon. Brandon's antics at TC have to be exhausting. The dynamics between Opolu and Savaii are polar opposites.
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Sallycat22
Member
08-31-2005
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 3:37 pm
I would like to see Cochran beat Ozzy at some puzzle then next he would have to duel Edna in a arm wrestling contest and lose. Of course who ever comes back into the contest will be promptly voted out. Of course if it is Ozzy there would be the pesky immunity wins.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 3:45 pm
Even if the Savaii people were to bring Cochran to the end, he would have had no argument and zero chance of winning. In fact, he had no chance period because he did not remotely fit the criteria this particular group of people have for being a winning player (i.e. being attractive with strong physical attributes). Ozzy sold his tribe on playing based on Ozzy's criteria for a strong Survivor player. And the results are evident. 
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Spear
Member
08-06-2001
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 4:32 pm
He went from having a 14 percent chance of going home by pulling a colored rock to a zero percent chance of winning by not pulling rocks. That's not a logical argument because it's talking about two different things -- his chances of going home and his chances of winning. It is more correct to say "he went from having a 14 percent chance of going home to a zero percent chance of going home". How is that a bad move? If you're going to claim that he had a zero percent chance of winning at the time he made the switch, I could just as easily claim that he had a zero percent chance of winning if he hadn't switched. So "he went from a zero percent chance of winning to a zero percent chance of winning". Not exactly a terrible move either.
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Merrysea
Moderator
08-13-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 4:33 pm
He would also have to show how he "outwitted" and "outplayed" whoever he was up against. I haven't seem him do any of that. But final three makes a lot more money than seventh place.
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 4:40 pm
Thank you Spear. I knew that the writer was comparing apples to oranges but couldn't figure out how to say it. Your explanation of his lack of logic is perfect.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 4:54 pm
Although I liked Cochran or at least the idea of A Cochran to get a chance to play Survivor and for me a viewer/fan to watch a Cochran type person play against the bigger than reality Ozzy's and Coach's of the world but at the end he sorta fizzled out for my tastes. I think Sophie is a regular type of person. We haven't seen to much of her except the times she urges her top 3 to hold strong. She's bit her lip most of the time, at least in front of "the others", she's won a few challenges and has really stuck true to her f3. If more people did that- stick to their original f3 (within a f5) it would be a different game. I didn't realize that Albert was such a lazy jerk type person? Was yesterday's episode the first time they showed this trait? Edna is on her last rung of sanity....she needs to go to Ponderosa asap to decompress. I think yesterday's show was one of the few times Rick spoke? I really really enjoy coach. I think he's been the major force in this season but unfortunately I don't see Team Ozzy giving him his due.
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Vsmart
Member
02-10-2003
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 5:06 pm
With all the talk of Cochran going home, it would have been the perfect time to blindside Coach. Especially since the others could plot while they were getting a massage.
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Roblover
Member
05-17-2011
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 5:35 pm
Vsmart, exactly! Actually I thought the reason Albert gave his reward to Cochran and Coach was so he could have the time to try to talk others into blindsiding Coach. I was watching Coach's face when Albert gave the reward to Coach and he looked a little concerned because I think he was thinking the same thing. Gidget, I noticed the "drinking the kool-aid" remark too and I was thinking that I bet most people do not know how that saying came about. Since Keith did so well last night at the challenge I wonder if he has been laying back so he would not appear to be a threat? I like Sophie. She has played a smart game, is good at challenges, and seems to have common sense.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 5:37 pm
Good point vsmart. I wonder if they even considered it. The problem is that they could have ended up in a 3-3 tie if Coach, Edna, Brandon all voted Cochran. They only had 3 votes (Albert, Rick and Sophie). They couldn't risk trying to grab Cochran's vote. I wonder if they will consider it this week, when a tie would not occur.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 6:17 pm
That "drinking the kool-aid" phrase is so common now in academic and particularly tech environments, nobody really thinks where it comes from, and I suspect many don't even know. I missed the Sharon Tate comment, but I don't know who she is.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 6:24 pm
I was a bit taken aback by the Sharon Tate reference but I agree many of the "survivors" probably wouldn't know the reference that she was one (of many) that Manson had his "family" kill.
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Biscottiii
Member
05-29-2004
| Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 7:09 pm
From my fav exit interview site: Whitney Duncan: I had an unhappy marriage and fell in love on 'Survivor' http://realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-whitney-duncan-i-had-an-unhappy-marriage-and-fell-in-love-on-survivor-12927.php
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