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Archive through December 23, 2002

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Survivor ARCHIVES: Survivor V - Thailand ~ 2: Survivor V - Thailand: Brian Heidik: Archive through December 23, 2002 users admin

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Kady

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kady a private message Print Post    
Nice post Bryan. I pretty much agree with everything you say. :)

Lancecrossfire

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lancecrossfire a private message Print Post    
Bryan, I agree 100% that Brian plyaed the game of Survivor the best. No question about that. If the million is all he wanted from the game, he walked away a very successful person.

I just happen to think you can get the million and also get other things out of it as well that can improve your life in a non-material way. Brian intentionally blocked that portion out. his choice of course.

As far as the control isse, I never said a person get get by with no control--what I said about Brian is that he has to have total control--he wanst to be seen and acknowledged by everyone--a personer as he stated in a chat.

Shallow is a correct evaluation of what that approach is, without regard to it being "right" or "wrong".

It's all an issue of what you want out of any given situation--whether that situation is 30 seconds, 30 days or 30 years.

Ethan walked away with 1 million dollars AND saw it as a life changing experience.

I don't see Brain being the new sherriff (as he put it) at all--he only walked away with half of the potential the game had to offer.

Bryan

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:18 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
Kady, I would love to hear what parts you may not have agreed with. This is an open forum.

Bryan

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
Lance, how do we know he blocked that portion out? I am willing to bet that Brian got things out of this game in addition to the million bucks. I do get that you think he didn't get what you would have come away with from the same game. No problem with that, just that I don't make him wrong for not getting what I would get from the game or what you would get from the game.

I agree that Brian has a thing for being in total control. I am not convinced that he is someone that wants to be seen and acknowledged by everyone. The reason I say this is because there were many times he appeared to want to shield his personal life, his wife, his home, his cars, etc. My experience is that someone who wants to be acknowledged, will hold these items out to be recognized by others.

Car54

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Car54 a private message Print Post    
Bryan, IMO, that is the best post of the season. You said it all.

Lance, I agree that for many it has been a very personal, life changing experience, but every season seems to have it's own tone...and this one, as Brian put is was "just bizness". It was clear this time, that they decided they had a couple of players...and they made the show about that...sit back and watch them do their stuff.

Personally, I think Ethan just inherited the game because Lex got deathly ill, and because of a mistake in a challenge. When they polled the jury, many said, had it been Lex vs Ethan, they would have had to vote for Lex because they respected how hard he played the game.

I think Brian has established a new, almost "professional" way of playing the game...not about relationships or anything but moving forward, day by day. I think to compare him to Rich in S1 is difficult because Rich was playing against people who had never seen or played this game. Every season, we see players repeat the same dumb moves and we scream at them for not learning from past games.

Brian appears to have seen and learned from every single thing that went before him and he did not make a mis-step. Clay is unique as well, because he really broke all the "rules"...he made enemies, he was out front about who he was...he was lazy, vulgar, and never pretended to be anything else...all the things that you are not supposed to be...and week after week...he stayed...he was never once in any real danger. Very unique.

Brian is like the first skater to perfect a quad at Worlds. The next group is going to have to work very hard to beat this "performance" as he called it in his chat.
I would have to give him a perfect 6.0 for athleticism, and about a 5.5 for artistry.


Lancecrossfire

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lancecrossfire a private message Print Post    
I'd like to throw out another way of looking at playing the game the best. Just for the sake of discussion and perpective.

In many games, the person who wins has to beat the best teams/players. The olympics for example--the gold medal winner is the one who beats the best the world has to offer.

The concept of "to be the man, you have to beat the man" (to be considered the best you have to win against the best) doesn't have to be the case for Survivor. Why not say the person who played the game the best is the person who would have beaten anyone in the final two? (I realize it isn't set up that way, just throwing it out to discuss).

I think Ethan would have won no matter who had been sitting next to him. I think the same is true of Rudy in S1 (although he never made it to the final 2).

In survivor, it's ok to take the worst person and if you win, you are the sole survivor--not the best survivor.

I think of what Survivor would be like if the players were Nathan, Colby, Richard, Rudy, Jake, Jed, Robb (the "new" Robb), Lex, Tina, Helen, Jerri, and a couple others I can't think of this moment.

A mix of people who played it a bit differrently from each other, but played their game well.

One of the things I think is true is that the winner of each game would most likely not win in the others--different people and different things happening.

And we have to get rid of the pagonging--if Sook had the numbers, Brain never would have had the chance to win, ala Jake. Start them out as one tribe right from the beginning. I know Brain woudl play a great game no matter the situation you put him in--I'd just like to see how he'd do with the best of the groups. (and the same goes for the others)

Edit note---i had not posted this by the time Car and Bryand had their posts up. They make good points.

Kady

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:38 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kady a private message Print Post    
I don't disagree with anything you say Bryan. He played a great game and I loved him on the show. I was never bothered by his comments to the camera. I guess its the realization that he probably lives his life in game mode. I am much happier after the shows when the person that wins is someone I would like to know. I will give him kudos for being a great game player but he seems like a horrible person in real life and sometimes I have a problem separating the two. :)

Car54

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Car54 a private message Print Post    
I think Brian did play against great players, and if he had been on Jake's team, I think he would have figured a way to create a relationship with the key players...just like he did on Chuay.

His style was to watch and give people what they wanted from him...he would have joked and goofed with Robb, he would have taken Shii Ann aside and made snide comments about the others with her, he would have been Papa Jake's right hand man...
I think he even would have figured out a way not to threaten Ken.

I think if you re-combine any team's players in any season, the whole outcome would be different... think about how many players were booted because of one incident or comment they made. If Kimmi had not told that Jeff Varner had votes, he might have made it and that team would not have been Pagonged... If Kel had not made Jerri nervous, he might have made it...
If Hunter had been a little less out there..what might have happened to him and Gina...what if Brandon had told KimP he was switching sides to save their team?

Most of what happens is very fragile...and almost anything could change the outcome.

Brian and Rich would never be able to re-create their performances ...we know their tricks...but they are both so smart and creative...who knows what other strategy they might come up with to try.

Bryan

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:49 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
In the very first survivor show, I think Rich played the game with his innate abililities. I seem to remember he came very close to being voted out but by the luck of him winning immunity he was able to survive that one vote where he had the highest chance of being voted off. The subsequent survivor show contestants tried to mimic what worked for Rich. Rich had the ability to survive better than anyone else in the very first show, and it won him the money.

Rich earned the first title. The subsequent winners fell into the title. Brian earned the title this season. You could say that Brian learned from his predecessors, but I hold that Brian won from his natural ability and instincts.

Clay played a brilliant game. Clay knew he could never win on his own like he knew Brian could win. Clay knew his only chance was for Brian to take him to the end and hope by a twist of fate that someone would vote against Brian amd make Clay the winner. Clay has played his entire life by this same technique.

Bryan

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:55 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
Kady, realistically, don't we all play life in our "own" game mode. Whatever it may be?

I do.

Whit4you

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 5:58 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whit4you a private message Print Post    
Well I think CLay had one of the best strategy's of all the survivors myself... ensure yourself a 2nd place seat on the jury. Remember that is HOW Richard won! Kelly took Richard because she thought she could win over him and she could have if not for Susan's hard feelings. The EXACT opposite happened this year, Helen NOT letting her personal issues effect her vote cost Clay the one winning (Susan) vote. I thikn Brian really owes a great deal of gratitude to Helen, few people with it being that fresh in their mind (remember this happened just a day before) would have voted for Brian in that case.

So Clay's strategy (be the least liked, least threatening guy that everyone will want sitting across from them in the final two, was a very good one, just one VOTE short of a million dollars.

Brian's a used car salesman - who's clearly studied gorilla tactics books - he had luck along the way (in SJ falling apart etc...) but I think he was pretty destined to win this thing.

Bryan

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 6:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
Whit, can you link me to this gorilla tactics book? I would love to see what it has to say.

Whit4you

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 6:42 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whit4you a private message Print Post    
Bryan,

There are probably a dozen of them - "Gurilla Marketing" "Gurilla selling' "Gurllia this..and that...

they are excellent excellent books and worth buying (or you can get them from the library and take alot of notes if buying them is not in your budget lol)

I've looked for uh ...free <grin> copies on the net myself and have not found any - but you can find bits and pieces of them at least doing a yahoo search on various sites - probably not as good as the orignals though. They books covers are usually camaflage looking (gurilla warfare basically)

I'll say there's at least one orignal and usable piece of advice in each one to make it worth the price of the book :) I used those tactics ALOT back when I ran my own business's and in life in general... :)

Sorry I don't remember who writes them but a search at a booksite should give you the name of the publisher (I don't THINK they are written by one single author, but I could be wrong there)

Azriel

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Azriel a private message Print Post    
Car, I agree with you. Brian would have played just as great a game if he had been on the other team. He would have neutralized Ken from the get go and made Jake believe it was Jake's decision to get rid of Ken.

Brian didn't try to get to know Ken, Penny and Jake because by the time they merged he didn't have to get to know them to win the game. They were no threat, just bodies waiting around to be disposed of in turn. It was probably hard enough for him to keep making unemotional game decisions with the people that he had already been close to in his tribe.

Brian was unemotional and calculating in his game play. He kept his eyes open to what was happening around him and he stayed in focus. He didn't get caught up in the middle of the drama queens. He took each thing as it came to him as a piece of the puzzle and placed those pieces in the right place to form a winning ending for himself.

That being said, I still don't think that Brian went through the game like a robot. I don't think he is a cold, callous person. I don't think he is a slimeball, sleezebag or whatever. He didn't set out to take a vacation in nature where he got to meet some people that would be friends for the rest of his life. He set out to play a game and hopefully win a million dollars with other people that were supposed to be playing a game, too.

It's not the way 'I' would have played the game. In fact, I've argued with people on this board about playing a game without emotion before, but just at the time that I 'GET' what they were trying to tell me, it seems like they are on the other side of the fence now. ~scratches my head~

Brian wasn't mean or cruel to anyone. He played the game calmly and cooly and won, so I say congrats to him and a happy life. He gave me a really interesting show and I learned something from watching him play it.

Car54

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 11:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Car54 a private message Print Post    
Azriel, that is exactly my take on him. He may have said a few things to the camera that were not PC, but he really was not a hurtful or mean person in the game. He did what he had to do.

And he definitely gave me a million dollars worth of entertainment. I can't say the same for some of the prior winners. I feel very satisfied with the whole experience this time.

Bryan

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 6:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Bryan a private message Print Post    
Well said Azriel. You might try some shampoo for that itchy scalp.

Car54

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 8:52 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Car54 a private message Print Post    
I have been reading a lot of the other boards and am interesting at how mad some people are that Brian was not a "heroic" Ethan-style winner.

I felt like we were shown from day 1 what he was doing, and I was pretty sure he was going all the way...so this frustration and anger is kind of surprising to see. This is not a very nice game. It is hard to expect the winner not to have some dirt on their hands at the end.

Niceguy

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 12:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Niceguy a private message Print Post    
Well that's an interesting way of looking at it, Azriel, but I think your selling Ken a little too short.

We'll never know.

If Ken and Jed were switched with Ted and John? That would have been fascinating.

Twinkie

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
Bryan, you can start with this book:

Gorilla Tactics For Transforming The Workplace by Duane L. Smelser

Seamonkey

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 2:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
"Guerilla" will probably work better in your searches..

Twinkie

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 3:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
Sea is right. There are many sites about Guerilla Warfare. Including:

http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html

Whit4you

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 4:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Whit4you a private message Print Post    
ya but try "Guerilla Marketing" or "Guerilla Sales" to get on the right track... try the library though - it's a good source for them unless you have alot of money to blow then they are definately worth buying..

I also like the 'one minute manager' type books but really if you've read one of them you've read them all... so just read one and apply to other stuff LOL.

The guerilla books on the other hand get very specific about various situations which is why I am sure Brian has read them and applied them in RL and on this show...:) If I were running a car lot they'd be required reading for employees :)

Spunky

Monday, December 23, 2002 - 8:13 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Spunky a private message Print Post    
All excellent comments here...but I didn't notice many use the word "luck". No doubt Brian played exactly as I would have played the game, as relating to the other players (businesslike) but luck was on his side as well. It could very easily have gone the other way...to Clay, if only Helen wasn't as honest as she was in the end, Clay could be the winner. To win by a vote a guy must be extremely lucky...
Well, whatever made it for Brian I'm really happy with his win because he deserved it more than anyone else there.
I still hope one day they will have all winners play against each other in a special Survivor edition... Brian just may be lucky again...

Hermione69

Monday, December 23, 2002 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
I don't really get why people found Brian so entertaining. I thought Richard Hatch was far, far more entertaining than Brian. He was so out there while Brian tried way too hard to hold himself in. There is really something about Brian that makes my insides go cold. Funny because he started off as one of my favorites. I saw a post I made earlier in the game, in October I think, where I said that he and Jan were two of my favorites. I don't really know what happened. He became too snide and condescending in his confessionals, for one. I can step back objectively and agree that he deserved to win because he was masterful at controlling people, but emotionally I have never been as disappointed in a Survivor winner, not even when Tina beat my lovely Colby. Brian is nothing but creepy in my eyes. Oh well, to each his own, I guess.

Grooch

Monday, December 23, 2002 - 11:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grooch a private message Print Post    
Scandal Haunts Survivor: Thailand Champ
Monday, December 23, 2002


The tribe has spoken: We declare Brian Heidik the spiciest Survivor winner yet! Sure, Richard Hatch was a scheming gay nudist. Old news. And Tina Wesson, Ethan Zohn and Vecepia "Vee" Towery were mostly blasé. But Brian's scandalous hijinks — both on and offscreen — have proved very intriguing. Backstabbing! Porn! Restraining orders! Where do we begin?

Firstly, how did Brian feel about his porn past going public? "Well," the Virgins of Sherwood Forest star tells TV Guide Online, "I just want to clarify that I do have off Broadway credits, as well as [theater] training. I had a contract role on the soap opera Days of Our Lives. I played Tim Rollins.

"So I showed my butt for a couple of T&A flicks," he shrugs. "It's funny how Michael Douglas and Bruce Willis do the same thing for a few million dollars and they consider it art, but I do something for [a lower] budget and it's considered soft porn. It's all perception — and I hope you enjoy the performance!"

Is it true policeman Ken Stafford "Figured out" Brian's past during their time on Koh Tarutao? "Ken is full of crap," the 34-year-old insists. "He never figured out anything. We never had a conversation about it on the island. We talked about a few people in the [entertainment] industry, and that's it. Him just saying that was completely a false statement. Ken is like a younger brother, and is a little immature and has a lot of growing up to do. I expected a lot more out of Ken."

Movin' on... How is Brian's married life these days? Last time we looked, Mrs. Charmaine Heidik was facing spousal abuse charges. "We're working it out, my wife and I," he says. "She was at the [Survivor finale] and everything's great. We're going to have a great Christmas. It was strictly the judge's decision to keep us 100 yards away [from one another]. Of course, [the restraining order was lifted] once they found out I wasn't pressing any charges.

"We had some issues with each other," Brian continues. "We're going to seek counsel and make this thing work." Laughing, he adds: "We love hard and we fight hard!"

While seeking legit acting work in primetime TV and films, the former used-car salesman says he plans to "turn [my $1 million prize] into a few more mil and set up my family for life. I'm just going to take it day by day and not make any unwise decisions, like on the island!" — Daniel R. Coleridge

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