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Archive through April 27, 2004

The TVClubHouse: Other Reality Shows: Archives for 2004-1: The Swan: ARCHIVES: Archive through April 27, 2004 users admin

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Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 12:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
WHOOPS!! I forgot to end the post with........my usual IN MY OPINION disclaimer LOL.

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 5:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL, Sun.. good addition.. I know I spent the late sixties, the seventies, eighties and much of the nineties in jobs where women were worth the same, or more, depending.. and no, not a "women's" job.

I think the Swan should sink to the bottom.. it makes Extreme Makeover look, uh, good.

Anyway, I'm here to post an article I just read in my paper today: Reality Check

Sunday, April 25, 2004
Reality check
TV's portrayal of cosmetic surgery sparks a debate about expectations and accurate portrayals.


“THE SWAN”: A plastic-surgery patient on the Fox reality show has a post-operative visit with Dr. Randal Haworth.
RANDY TEPPER, FOX



LISA LIDDANE
FITNESS
Register columnist
lliddane@ocregister.com



It's a fairy-tale moment made for reality TV. A woman who underwent hours of cosmetic surgery waits nervously to see the final results of her radical makeover. As the curtains part to reveal her reflection in a full-length mirror, her mouth drops open, her eyes widen. She touches her new features as though feeling them for the first time: prominent cheekbones, a well-proportioned chin and chiseled nose. That's not all. She has bigger breasts, smaller hips, a flat belly, perfect teeth, a new hairstyle, makeup and a sexy evening gown.

"I'm beautiful!" she exclaims. That scene from the new Fox show "The Swan" – along with ABC's "Extreme Makeover" and MTV's "I Want a Famous Face" – collectively highlight the seductive and transformative powers of cosmetic surgery.


But they also have sparked a debate among some plastic surgeons, psychologists and viewers about whether these reality shows truthfully and accurately portray the psychological and medical realities of procedures. The shows have provoked so much discussion in recent months and weeks that at least two professional associations of plastic surgeons have released statements addressing these issues.




DRASTIC OR SUBTLE
Surgeons disagree on whether the drastic and dramatic makeovers are typical of real-life cosmetic surgeries.

"It's an oxymoron to call them reality shows because there is no reality about them," said Dr. Robert Bernard, president of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. "A vast majority of patients who come in have no interest in looking very different. They want to look better, and that's what makes them feel better."

Most patients don't want extreme changes, Bernard said. In a survey of 1,000 people last November, the society found that 68 percent would prefer a subtle change in their appearance, while 23 percent would consider an extreme change desirable.

"People have to remember that the patients on the show are culled from hundreds of applicants and they break it down to the few who are going to bring the drama and make the show interesting to watch."

Bernard is concerned that patients in the shows are chosen for their entertainment value and wonders whether some of them are appropriate candidates for surgery.

"What people sometimes fail to recognize is that those individuals on TV have not had just cosmetic surgery," he said. "They've had cosmetic dentistry, which is an important part of the formula; a professional stylist; and a makeup artist. That can be easily $150,000 worth of services. Many real-life patients come in for a $3,000 procedure, like an upper eyelid lift."

Dr. Terry Dubrow, a board-certified plastic surgeon in Newport Beach who performs surgeries in "The Swan," sees it differently. He points out that one of the aspects unique to the show is the team effort that enables people to be transformed inside and on the outside. The show is an opportunity for people to view surgery as one component for change, but people can do other things, such as seek psychological counseling, exercise with a personal fitness trainer, work with a weight-loss consultant, get a different hairstyle, and wear makeup in a flattering way to feel better about themselves, he said.

"This is the first opportunity for a plastic surgeon to help a person through her emotional transformation," he said. "The people who came into the office were in a rut. It was more than just about a physical deformity. It was about a life deformity."

Patient selection for "The Swan" is a rigorous process that takes into account the mental, emotional and physical health of a patient, Dubrow said. Moreover, their struggles through the transformation are documented and shown, he added.

"We bring out every aspect of their lives, their attitudes, their emotions, their traumas," he said. "We make sure their expectations are realistic, and we operate on them in a safe way."

PORTRAYING POST-SURGICAL REALITY
As reality shows go, researcher Virginia Blum, associate professor of English at the University of Kentucky, believes that "I Want a Famous Face" does the best job of depicting post-surgical reality, however graphic the images may be. The other two shows fall short, according to Blum, who recently wrote "Flesh Wounds: The Culture of Cosmetic Surgery" (University of California Press). Blum knows how difficult plastic surgery can be. She underwent two rhinoplasties – the second one to correct the first.

Her opinions about "The Swan" and "Extreme Makeover" are echoed by David Sarwer, assistant professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. "My biggest concern is that these shows don't depict the experience of a typical patient during and following surgery."

The shows tend to downplay or minimize the less pleasant aspects of surgery and its aftermath, said Sarwer, who has conducted research on the psychological aspects of plastic surgery. "What isn't shown often and enough is the pain, discomfort and swelling the way most patients experience these. There may be hours of film footage, but you're only seeing 48 minutes.

"As a result, people may look at that and say, 'Boy, that transformation looked pretty easy,' therefore they can do the same thing."

Shows also don't go far enough to accurately depict the extent of post-surgery depression, he said. "For a lot of plastic-surgery patients in general, it's not uncommon to have post-operative blues the third week after surgery," Sarwer said. "My guess is that 90 percent of the time, it's because they're sitting around with bad magazines or bad TV. They're not able to get out as much or be as active as they're used to."

OF RISKS, COMPLICATIONS AND ETHICS
Dr. James Wells, immediate past president and a spokesman for the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, said "Extreme Makeover" does an adequate job of discussing and presenting the potential risks and complications and adhering to a code of ethics.

"We thought that this was an opportunity for the public to get a real understanding of the surgery, the bruising and the time for recovery," he said. "If any of these patients had negative outcomes during the show, they would receive whatever care they need. ... I think they haven't made any major complications at all, and if there were any, these would have been taken care of within the context of the show.""The Swan" and "Extreme Makeover" often involve multiple surgeries in a short amount of time. And that may increase the chances of problems and complications. In real life, several surgeries can be combined, but many tend to be staggered over time to give the body optimum time to heal, Dubrow said.

Also, surgeons who have been working with their teams for years become very proficient at combining procedures to minimize surgical time, Wells said. Being on the operating table for a long time can increase the risk of complications. Producers of "Extreme Makeover" approached the surgeons' society after several ASPS members turned down producers' invitations to perform surgeries, citing concern about violating medical ethics, Wells said. After much discussion, a majority – not all – of members of the ASPS executive committee decided that if member surgeons wanted to participate in the show and be paid for their surgical services, it would not violate medical ethics, because the show did not involve a contest.

HAPPILY EVER AFTER?
After the swelling has subsided and the bruises have vanished, patients on reality TV appear to be pleased, even ecstatic with the results. They seem to feel better about themselves. "With some of these procedures, there is a psychological benefit in the improvement of appearance," Sarwer said. "Evidence suggests that there are improvements in body image and depressive symptoms. The longest studies lasted two years. Beyond that we don't know."

Reality TV shows on cosmetic surgery end on a happy note, even if it doesn't always have perfect pitch. There is the implication that the patients' lives are better for having gone under the knife. But do these positive endings on TV delude viewers into thinking that if they undergo surgery to become more attractive, they will be happy for the rest of their lives?

Most plastic-surgery patients know the difference between entertainment and reality, Bernard said. At best, reality TV provides them with amusement and can open the door to more discussions with a surgeon.

Blum disagrees. "The positive results of plastic surgery in the shows make people as happy as they imagine it would," she said. "But it's misrepresented as making them perfectly happy." We underestimate the powerful seduction of celebrity culture, reality shows and cosmetic surgery, three worlds fused in the latest shows, she said. In her book, Blum summarized it this way: "Our self-made culture finds its logical extreme in surgical self-fashioning – becoming a star in our own right."

TIPS WHEN CONSIDERING PLASTIC SURGERY
Consider the following when contemplating plastic surgery:

Having realistic expectations about cosmetic surgery increases the likelihood that you will be happy with the results.

No surgeon can offer risk-free surgery or guarantee a perfect result.

Ask about the best procedure and alternatives for you, and ask the surgeon to explain the reasons.

Ask if your surgery will need to be repeated.

Inquire about risks and potential complications and how the surgeon would handle problems.

Your surgery should take place in an accredited, state-licensed or Medicare-certified facility.

Your surgeon should be certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery, qualify for hospital privileges to perform cosmetic plastic surgery, have experience in a wide range of cosmetic procedures, have earned continuing medical education credits in cosmetic surgery and be fulfilling ongoing educational requirements.

Sources: American Society of Plastic Surgeons, American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery


CONTACT US: lliddane@ocregister.com or (714) 796-7854

and second article: (link within above link)

Sunday, April 25, 2004
Surgery shows


By LISA LIDDANE
The Orange County Register


A quick look at cosmetic surgery in reality TV shows:

"Extreme Makeover" chooses two candidates, male or female, who are unhappy with aspects of their appearance and feel that their looks have been a liability in life, whether in dating or achieving. The candidates undergo free surgical procedures not limited to liposuction, rhinoplasty, chin and/or cheek implantation and breast augmentation. Most receive cosmetic dentistry treatments such as porcelain veneers. They shop for new clothes with a fashion stylist and receive a new hairstyle, makeup or facial grooming. Their new look is revealed to the gasps, shrieks and tears of family members and friends who have not seen them in a few months.


"The Swan" uses a similar concept but takes it a step further, turning the makeovers into a competition. The show selects two women who are dissatisfied with aspects of their appearance and feel their lives are limited by their looks. They undergo free, multiple facial and body surgeries. They work out with a personal trainer and/or undergo a weight-loss program. They receive some psychological counseling. A fashion stylist helps them with new clothing selections, hair, makeup and grooming. The contestants do not have access to mirrors and therefore do not see their new look until the end. The competitor who has best achieved her transformation goals wins a slot in a pageant, while the other goes home.

"I Want a Famous Face" chronicles the journey of a young person who wants to have his or her favorite celebrity's features. Sha, 19, decides to get much larger breasts, like Pamela Anderson's, because she believes they will make her sexier and give her a shot at the Playmate throne. Twins Mike and Matt, 20, admire Brad Pitt's facial features and undergo surgery to look as much like Pitt as possible. Unlike the other two shows, MTV does not pay for the surgery, but tags along for the graphic ride.






Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 7:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Wow, I have never heard of that MTV show...it sounds even sicker than the Swan. Youngsters who want surgery to LOOK like a celebrity.hmmmmmm
*****
Great Articles Seamonkey. This is an excerpt from a news article I saw a few weeks ago. "Dr
Carruthers suggested about one in every 20,000 liposuction operations ends in death - a complication rate he finds intolerable. "That's unacceptable for a cosmetic procedure.

Medical misadventures - the term used to describe serious complications, including death - occur in about one out of every 60,000 to 65,000 cosmetic surgeries of all types, he said. :-(


Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 8:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Two things...

How many cosmetic surgeons do you know who would put a DD cup on a woman who is 5'2" tall? That's the one thing I have a problem with mostly... these women's augmentations are NOT in proportion to the rest of their bodies. They will forever after be noticed for their augmented chests.

Second, I would love to see how these women are a year after surgery. Did surgery really help them overcome their emotional problems? Or did it exacerbate them? Because, believe you me, fixing an obvious cosmetic defect (such as a hump on the nose) will have one affect, while adding several cup sizes will have another.



Halfunit
Member

09-02-2001

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 8:29 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Costa - lol, I am what you just described (naturally, not artificial), and I want a reduction!

( OK, so I'm 5' 2 ½" )


Costacat
Member

07-15-2000

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 12:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
LOL @ Half!! Yeah, hon, but you know what I mean. There's a world o' difference between a naturally occurring DD and an artificially (and oh so perky) created one! <wink>

My point, though, was that the women go in and say make me a D and the doc does it. No questions. No "are you really sure?". Nada. (And Half? Methinks some o' those D's are gonna wanna reduction sometime in the future, too!)

Ketchuplover
Member

08-30-2000

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 1:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
How about in(de)flatable boobs? :-)

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 1:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
hey, these new implants are kinda deflatable. thats how they get the bags in and out of the little slits. No more gigantic scars......just a little 2-3 inch slit.
****
Like Halfunit, I too am 5'2 1/2 with a natural DDD. These ladies are going to have pretty serious shoulder, neck and back pain. It is just a matter of time before the body bends to the weight hanging off the chest. I figure I have in excess of 20 lbs on my chest.

ANY athletes out there with weights at home?? Put a couple of weights on a rope/ belt, and strap em to the middle of your chest and loop it over the shoulders (like a reverse backpack). Let us know what you thought of how it felt after a couple of hours...better yet, try to gallop down some stairs LOL.

I dont wish a reduction at this time. If things go farther SOUTH I may consider reduction and "rejuvenation!!" with perky implants at THAT time


Ketchuplover
Member

08-30-2000

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 6:25 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Anybody know how many women applied for this show?

Ketchuplover
Member

08-30-2000

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 6:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Oh well 1 of 2 ain't bad.<referring to the 4/26 show>

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 7:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
HALF! I am 5 2 1/2 too!!! and I am naturally a 36D

Abbynormal
Member

08-04-2001

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 7:41 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I also am 5 2 &1/2 and I also wear a 36 long oops I mean a 36C

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Monday, April 26, 2004 - 8:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
ROTF!

Sunshyne4u
Member

06-17-2003

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 12:50 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hmmmmm wonder why we are all short!? If I recall correctly, average female height was 5'5

Oh and I am a natural DDD...just incase some thought I already had implants because I discussed how the surgery is done. i saw a Plastic surgeon on how they do reductions......and the pics were awful. Really huge scars.
*******
No one has commented on the SWAN episode from this evening. I missed all but the last ten mins. Once again, the lady with the most surgery will go to the pagent. I thought she was just plain weird looking.....very stiff face, like a doll.

Monkeyboy
Member

05-27-2001

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 1:17 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Sun, i agree that the women most of the time turn out weird looking. This may sound mean and IMO, but most of the time, these women turn out looking like transvestites!

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 2:03 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
It may sound mean, but it is mean the way they dress and make them up.. I mean that one woman got fake hair too.. surely they could have come up with a great short 'do to go with her offbeat wardrobe choice?

The woman who won.. now she did have MASSIVE work on her face.. gums and lips and nose so I'd guess it is pretty stiff..

I'm still liking extreme makeover better and more of those people have actual, serious problems that are life-changing to fix.

I wonder with some of these women.. what is going to happen in 10 years when they need more surgery to keep up and they cannot afford it? And since they seem to convince all makeover people that glasses are a national tragedy and give them lasix.. just wait until they find out that many of them will still need reading glasses later onA?

I also like extreme makeover better because they allow the 2-3 people having makeovers to get together and support each other and they allow them to see the changes all along so they can grow into the idea.. just seems more humane. Also the doctors on EM seem so much more compassionate.

Oh yeah, I'm 5'1" (was 5'2" at one time} but I'm not even close to a D .. lol..

Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 4:14 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't find as much fault with this show as some. If one suffers from low self esteem due to their appearance I suspect it gets a huge boost with these changes.

A face does not become stiff with cosmetic surgery and all will age normally. They can choose a face lift in the future, as they age, or not, just as anyone can. Their faces will not need upkeep.

As we age most of us need reading glasses whether we have had lasik or not. Lasik is to adjust distance vision though they are now developing a proceedure to go the other way as well.

I bet a few will regret bigger busts but they can be removed. I think they are using saline implants, silicone does not get filled.

I noticed something interesting last night. The rock and roll woman had a facial expression that radiated 'I am self concious because I feel ugly'. It was the face we saw before she had surgery. She still had the self concious mouth after surgery. Having just seen herself she has not had time to feel beautiful. The curious thing is that you NEVER see anyone that beautiful holding their mouth in that position! It looked out of place. I bet that will change. Anyone else notice that?

Hootyhoot
Member

12-18-2001

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 7:20 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I'd like to see a show where women got a great hairdo, great makeup and great clothes, three months with a personal trainer, and three months of therapy aimed at accepting themselves as they are.

The people on Extreme Makeover often have real physical problems ... I'm thinking of the woman with the awful protruding teeth ... but we all know someone who looks like one of the woman on The Swan and who is leading a happy life with family and friends.

I was wondering if I knew anyone who would benefit from plastic surgery or who I would nominate to go on a show like this ... and it took me a while to think of someone, which was strange because the person I finally thought of is one of my nearest and dearest ... but the thing is, her looks are not what I have her listed under in my brain or my heart ... I love her dearly. And, she has a happy life with a fine family and fine friends, so she is not in "need" of any changes.



March
Member

10-02-2003

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 8:19 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I want to see one of them keep their shorter hair.
Everyone of the women so far have longer hair when they finally see themselves.
Are they saying that only women with long hair can be considered beautiful?


Luvmykitties
Member

01-02-2004

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 8:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Although they don't have to have upkeep surgery in the future; if these woman only feel good about themselves after all this surgery, then what will happen when normal signs of aging take place?

And yes, you can get implants removed. But the skin has now been stretched, and with normal gravity over time; if they had the implants removed, they probably will end up with bigger scars to get a breast lift.

Regarding the Lasik - I didn't know about the reading glasses still being needed. I recently found this out from one of my mom's friends who was considering it. So I wonder if these women know...

I really don't like this show. I hate the way the women look during the reveal - with all that makeup and hair. Yuck. I wonder who are the esteemed people responsible for hair & makeup?

Beachcomber
Member

08-26-2003

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 9:16 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Hooty, ITA. It would be much more interesting to see a wardrobe, makeup, workout, and hair makeover than all this unnatural looking plastic surgery. I can see throwing in Lasik (had it love it!!) and maybe the Davinci veneers, but nothing else unless it is truly needed.

This would give all of us a chance to see how to dress for certain shapes and sizes, tips on makeup, etc. Lord knows I am not getting any hair tips from this show as each contestant's hair looks the same and looks absolutely awful and not flattering at all.

Sunshyne, a friend of mine had gastric bypass, lost alot of weight and had a breast reduction and lift and her scars are not that noticeable. Her tummy tuck scar to remove excess skin is still noticeable. Her perky breasts are the envy of our 40+ age group of friends!!

Seamonkey
Member

09-07-2000

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 10:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
Well I realize that they can touch up later but how many of them will be able to afford it? Being on this show gives the idea that they all NEED to be modified to be happy. I can see some of the nose jobs and some of the tooth work. but the winner last night.. I think she went through a hideous amount of pain with her mouth and lip work and I think it probably was still stiff/swollen at the time of the reveal.

As the article I listed mentions, some of the people get what would cost in the range of $150,000 on their mouth alone.. the blonde woman last night had very nice teeth, just the "gummy" smile and not a thing wrong with her upper lip, really.

And heaven forbid that any of these perfectly normal characteristics will be present in their children? THis whole experience will just scream to those kids that they also need fixing.

I simply think Extreme Makeover does this topic with so much more class.. the host is warm and supportive, the people get to react gradually, daily, to their changes, they get support of the other makeovers to keep with their diets and workout programs.. they are set up to support each other, not be pitted against each other for the right to compete for prizes and money..

Bat, I did notice the expression on the woman who lost last night.. very different..

Conejo
Member

08-23-2002

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 11:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I think that blonde woman should have had a lip REDUCTION done on her bottom lip to match the upper lip instead of what was done. Why do women want these big blowfish lips anyway? ick!

This show could easily be a 30 minute show instead of an hour. They showed before 'scenes' about 10 too many times IMO.

I don't care for the host AT ALL! I think that she comes across as being very phoney. Speaking of the hostess does she wear the same black skirt every week? I think SHE needs a makeover! And what's with all these people standing around clapping and whooping it up when the 'big reveal' is made? Tonight might have been my last night watching this <el>. JMHO
Oh, and one more thing her 'auckcent' is driving me crazy!


Catfat
Member

02-27-2002

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 11:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
I don't mind this show, it is no worse nor better than any of the other makeovers, of which I am thoroughly tired of seeing.
By the way, I am 5'1" and DDD. Talk about a sisterhood.

Fruitbat
Member

08-07-2000

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 3:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post    
These women will not need reading glasses *because* of lasik. They may as they age just like the rest of us.

I agree that Extreme Makeover is much better. Swan exhibits NO class at all. I agree that this show has faults oozing from every pore.