TVCH FORUMS HOME . JOIN . RESIZER . DONATE . CONTACT . CHAT  
                  Quick Links   TOPICS . TREE-VIEW . SEARCH . HELP! . NEWS . PROFILE
Archive through May 02, 2010

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Archives for 2007~2010 WrapUps: Archives for 2010 - 3: Jon & Kate Plus 8: Archive through May 02, 2010 users admin

Author Message
Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, April 30, 2010 - 12:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
Well in fairness Shenanagon you may not be wrong about the cheating in that it depends on your definition of when a marriage is over.

Some people feel that the marriage is over when a couple comes to a common verbal agreement that the marriage is over (that's how I feel) and I think that was the stage that Jon & Kate were at when Jon entered into those other relationships. Other people feel that a marriage isn't over until the couple is legally divorced.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Friday, April 30, 2010 - 12:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Maybe the View will bring Kate back on? I can't really stand that show anyway. :-)

Yes, some would still say he cheated because they weren't legally divorced. But I think it should be clear that the marriage fell apart, not because Jon strayed. The marriage fell apart and he was living over the garage before he found a girlfriend. Different situation, in my mind. Not a great situation, but different than a man cheating, woman finding out and asking for divorce.

Mameblanche
Member

08-24-2002

Friday, April 30, 2010 - 1:07 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mameblanche a private message Print Post    
I agree wholeheartedly with Brenda & Jimmer.

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Friday, April 30, 2010 - 7:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
" The marriage fell apart and he was living over the garage before he found a girlfriend. Different situation, in my mind."

Did Jon and Kate both confirm that? I thought that was just a rumor.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 10:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Kittyab.. the question is when did Jon start working? Since he was fired from his IT job way back (that was spun as him choosing to stay home with the kids because they were making money from the show and speaking engagements and books) the only paying gigs on his own were a few around the Hailey time.. paid to host a bikini pool party in Vegas, paid to show up at a casino on the east coast but he fluffed that one by not going where told and thinking that sitting on the steps making out with Hailey counted as showing up.

And I know he had a few other gigs and tried to get more. He tried to promote getting the line of children's clothing and being on some show with Michael Lohan (who is no longer supportive of Jon) But I guess that money was part of what went to rent his apartment, by his BMW, clothing, shop at Tiffany and travel to the ski resort.

Don't know if they paid for his gigs on Entertainment tonight (or whichever of the nightly tabloid shows he was on)

But a job to quit, don't think there was one.

The Big Quit was when he threw TLC off the property and halted the show.

As for cheating or not, for one we don't know exactly what happened when and our definition of cheating, which of course is legit for each of us doesn't count. What counts is the definitions within any one couple.

I don't know that he cheated on Kate .. he certainly cheated on various girlfriends who were each led to believe they were the only one, but with Kate we know he acted publicly in a way that would be cheating or at least slimey, during a time when they were acting as if they were together and in ways that caused his employer, TLC, to raise eyebrows contract wise.

For the most part separated means living separately, but not always.

I guess bottom line for me is that he acted out in public in ways that would embarrass his kids, his mother and any wife or girlfriend he was with.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 11:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
I believe he tossed TLC off his property right after they decided he was off the show, but couldn't work for anyone else per his contract, and announced the show would now be Kate +8.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that doesn't seem that out of line a behavior for him to have done. I just think it's a shame that he made such incredibly poor decisions about who to trust, listen to, be advised by etc. I'm betting lawyers got the bulk of him $$$, after promising him a huge payday from TLC.

Don't get me wrong. I think he's been the total rear end of a horse since the divorce etc. BUT I think he endured years of being belittled and having the life and oxygen pulled out of him to get to that point. So in this situation where I think both of them have behaved badly, at least I sort of can see a reason for Jon. Well, I see it for Kate too...I just personally feel it's far more self serving and calculated. I hope he gets his act together, and for the kids sake I hope they both get rid of their atty's!!!

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 5:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
ITA Lurk at the same time I think it's well past time for Jon to grow up and I imagine you agree.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 5:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Absolutely Shen. Just cause I can understand bad behavior, or take what I think is a good guess at it's cause/motivation, doesn't mean I approve of it. If I've had to suck up and be grown-up, he should too lolol. No one ever said it was gonna be easy. I would have hoped he would have gotten a clue a few lessons, and sleezy girlfriends and advisers back!

For the sake of his kids I hope he finds himself a good therapist and gets his life back on track. I guess I just see more potential in him than Kate. While he has changed, albeit not for the better, he has shown caring and the ability to be a nice guy in the past. So I'm hoping he has one more change in him, to a better grownup! Just seems to me that Kate has stayed pretty consistent with a closed mind to change from day 1, so sadly I'm not seeing much, if any, hope there.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 8:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Lurk, that would be true IF they were taking him out of the show and not paying him, but all they said was the name of the show would change, Jon would be on less often, depending on when he was around AND they would have kept him at the same salary.. So it was an ego thing on his part and cost them all a bundle. So.. understand the ego being bruised but too bad he overreacted.. or someone did.. because whoever put the sign on the fence had two misspellings, one of them being the spelling of Jon's own name!

I see very little potential in him since he's too old for Real World and challenges.. oh I'm sure there is some raunchy reality show out there for him, but ICK..

Kate only brought in the attny after Jon got that NY guy who was so aggressive. And yeah, best if they left them behind, if they can agree on things.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 9:16 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
ALL they said is they were changing the name of the show and he would only make small guest appearances with his kids in his occasionally??

Sea, if you rethink that, adding some testosterone, an already bruised male ego, and an immature emotional status in an early mid-life crisis, and guess I see it as one VERY big "all they said."

I personally think BOTH Jon and Kate need to figure out some way other than TV reality shows, or books, and most importantly THEIR KIDS, to earn an income. Clearly their current lifestyle hasn't benefited either one of them, IMHO. BOTH keep complaining endlessly about the paparazzi, yet neither does anything to change their life to one the paps, and the public, would have no interest in.

BTW, good point Sea about the misspelling of his name. Makes it pretty clear Jon didn't do it himself. So I think that brings us back again to the high quality counsel and guidance he's had (excuse me while I go yank my tongue from my cheek lol).

And as for TLC paying him, while I have no knowledge of their contracts, most TV contracts have some clause in them where you get paid a basic rate and an additional amount for every episode you appear in. I would bet that they have the same clause. It's fairly standard. And if that is the case, Jon would not be paid the same amount he had been to just sit back and do nothing. He'd be paid a greatly reduced sum, lose his name on the show giving the appearance (as is basically true) of him being fired, AND they were enforcing the no complete clause so they wouldn't let him go elsewhere.

So sorry, I still think it is more complicated than it just appeared, and I still can understand why he felt screwed, as he basically was. I think that, along with all those years of Kate's belittling him, made him basically go wacko. Doesn't make it right, but least I can see the logic in it.

And truth be told, we really aren't sure who did what when. Let's not forget the stories that originally surfaced that they had an agreement about seeing others, that she was the first one having an affair, that they were virtually separated, that TLC could barely get enough footage to use for the show with them fighting all the time, and that he begged her to go for marriage counseling and she wouldn't consider it (that last one they both pretty much admitted). So while I certainly don't condone his actions, I still feel he was pushed and pushed and eventually just lost his way (and his mind lol).

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 9:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
You are leaving out the important part of all they said.. that he would still pull in the same salary..

And what he did was cut off the money for all of them.

But he had the "epiphany" that it was all bad for the kids, after he was not in the title of the show.

Jon didn't do it himself but he allowed the sign and he also was the one, or his attorney, to threaten TLC if they dared to come back or film. Sorry, testosterone or not he doesn't get a pass for actions sanctioned by him.

I also don't for a minute think that he wasn't just fine with his most recent attorney bashing Kate until he thought about it so now he's down on the attorney.

Such a lifelong victim, is Jon.

Lurk, I'm not going way back to dig it out but as I recall it was TLC who provided the info that Jon would have gotten the same salary.

Sorry, or really, not sorry.. I just don't see any reason to cut him slack for all the crap he has pulled.

I also think they had spoken to Jon several times about his actions in public and only AFTER he refused to reign it in, did they make the decision to take his name off the show when it renuewd.

The info that comes from TLC I don't discount like many of the stories that come from "a source".

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 9:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
I don't recall ever hearing it said he would get the same salary. Lord knows back then you couldn't escape hearing about them. So I'm really not sure that's true.

I do totally agree with you about Jon's actions at the time. They were WAY out of line.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 9:39 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
I always figured Jon pulled the plug on the show because he was trying to get something from Kate, some kind of leverage to get more time with the kids or to get alimony or *something*, but then it turned out to just be some kind of powerplay or attempt to just get back at Kate, and it really made no sense to me. I think by the time TLC talked to him about his behavior, he was so angry that all rational thought went out the window and he just lashed out in the only way he knew how. I really hope he's coming back to his senses, because I always felt he had more sense than Kate and more warmth than her. I hope that feeling was right.

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 11:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
I think it makes the board interesting that we can see the same things and think totally differently. I saw Kate as being the warmer of the two. Yes, she had her bad moments such as yelling at him in Toys R Us and he had his good sane moments such as talking to her about that and calmly telling her she was talking to him like a dog and he was embarrassed for her because she was embarrassing herself....and he had his bad moments too like breaking a stick that one of the kids was carrying and throwing it down and grumbling about it in an irritated way...and Kate had her good moments such as when Jon made the Korean dinner and she was hugging him and praising him and he didn't seem to appreciate that at all from her....but overall I saw her give him more affection and more affection and warmth to the kids too than Jon gave them. He seemed to begrudgingly usually dress them etc. (And of course after their separation, well...he left the state etc.) But I realize others see things differently and that is what makes this board interesting. And I am so glad we can all share our thoughts w/o getting slammed and treated rudely by other posters. (Rarely have I ventured away from this board to talk about reality tv and when I have...well...it is a hard cruel rude cesspool out there.) Thank you all and thank you mods because this is a very unique board in the huge land of cyberspace!

Shenanagon
Member

07-28-2009

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Shenanagon a private message Print Post    
I'm learning so much reading your posts. Keep talking I'm eating this stuff up lmao

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 12:45 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Yeah I remember his dead fish attitude when she had a birthday party for Jon and had managed to arrange for them to have a getaway to Florida together and he was like "Oh?"

But there were many times and reasons to be frustrated with each of them for sure.

And heck I was a staunch defender of Jon when the first leaked photos came out with the schoolteacher and others in the bar near his mom's. I bought his story hook line and sinker at that time.

Snort!

Twinkie
Member

09-24-2002

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
In response to someone's question above I typed into Google what caused Jon and Kate's first break up and got this.

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2009/03/jon-kate-plus-8-heading-for-divorce.html

<snip> The couple appears to have serious marriage problems now that Jon has started spending increasing amounts of time away from home and partying with college girls, claims InTouchWeekly.com.

In a Feb. 6 incident, Jon was reportedly hanging out at Mimi's martini bar in Huntingdon, Penn. -- easily three hours away from the new home he and Kate moved into with their children -- when he met some girls from Juniata College who invited him to a house party.

"He walked in with two girls he met at Mimi's bar," a senior tells the magazine. "It was so cool."

Jon then proceeded to play beer pong and then follow the party with a nightcap at Memories Sports Bar & Grill, where he reportedly got drunker, flirted with the Juniata girls and told one, "We might be getting a divorce."

Star Magazine had earlier reported one witness' account:

"He was dirty dancing with several of them, making out, kissing them on their necks and mouths. I thought it was rather surprising for a father with his wife and so many kids at home to be acting like this. He was all over one girl, a long-haired blonde who's nearly 6 feet tall. He left with several of the girls, including her."

You can read the rest at the website posted.

Naja
Member

06-28-2003

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Naja a private message Print Post    
Twinkie, that all happened after Kate told him it was over. It was still 2008 when the couple separated, but they decided not to share that bit of info with the rest of the world yet to go on with a facade of a show. He started spending more time away from home because they were over.

eta: here is a video of Kate's brother last May saying Kate had told Jon 6 months ago it was over.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/05/...

This isn't where I originally heard it, but it's the first thing I found in search that shows that.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I believe nothing from Kate's brother and little from Jon about the precise timings but really, that behavior sounds more like the 21 years olds in Real World, not a 30/over father of 8 even if he had had a final divorce decree at that point.

Ophiliasgrandma
Member

09-04-2001

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ophiliasgrandma a private message Print Post    
If you were one of the kids at an older age and knew this wouldn't you be so proud of your daddy. Ugh!

Puzzled
Member

08-27-2001

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Puzzled a private message Print Post    
One thing's for sure, and that's that you just can't tell what makes a particular marriage work--even if you live with the couple. My mother was a nag and hypercritical, and her tirades could last for hours, but my Dad thought she was wonderful.

Lurknomore
Member

07-07-2001

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 2:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lurknomore a private message Print Post    
Just because Kate's brother and sis in law have blabbed all over the media, doesn't mean what they said isn't true IMHO. They were still on good terms then, and should have an idea. At least a better one than we all do, since we have no real way to know what is the truth, what are lies, and what are both their memories or beliefs that are not accurate.

BTW I recall reading an article at the height of the Gosselin insanity in the media that listed just about ALL of Kate's family and friends, then listed the known fights and who she was estranged from. Pretty much the entire list, including all her "dear friends" that we saw on the show over the years. I personally thought that was very telling.

All I keep thinking of with this discussion is the old adage "two wrongs don't make a right." I don't think Jon being wrong makes Kate right or vice versa. I personally feel there is AMPLE blame to go around, that both have lost touch with reality, that BOTH have behaved very badly. And my bottom line is concern for those kids and wishing they would just stay off TV. Well that, and hoping to never see or hear Jon or Kate again in my life, if at all possible lolol.

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 3:10 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Yeah, but Kate Started It! LOL! (Only half joking, as I do believe she told him to move out of her bed and start this facade of keeping the marriage for the TV show prior to him partying with coeds.)

Yes, the list of broken friendships and family relations in the wake of Kate is long and telling. And it sound like Jon has learned a bit from Kate as he goes through girlfriends and lawyers like they are disposable. At least it sounded like Jon was back to nuturing his family relationships (Mom, brothers). Hope he can find the time to keep doing that in between his party gigs.

Twinkie
Member

09-24-2002

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 4:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Twinkie a private message Print Post    
I don't get why these kids should stay off TV but its okay for the Duggar kids, the Hayes kids, the Roloff kids, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and that outing of Jon's was when they were still living together supposedly happy. Now that's when you should be saying those poor kids. Daddy comes home in the AM and drunk and he wasn't out with mommy. I also wouldn't believe a word Kate's brother said if he was standing before God. I have a sister who is a viper and would rather say bad things about me than nice and that is why I haven't spoken to her in years. I don't need that crap in my life so I sure don't fault Kate for family problems.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 4:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
It seems to be the general consensus that Kate told Jon "it's over." Why would she do that if she really wanted the show to go on? I think most people think that she did want it to go on. There had to be a reason why she told him it was over and she wanted the marriage to be ended after having gone to great lengths to make it appear that they were happily together. My best guess, and of course it's no better or worse than anyone else's, is the drinking. We saw that he went wild when he was on his own and a lot of that wildness came from drinking. Kate knew his family history and would have been very quick to tell him he was on the same path his father had been on. If she did tell him it was over after expending so much time and effort to appear happily married, she must have had a reason.

From what I've read from those who don't like her, Jon is the one who was mentally abused all those years. If that had been the case, wouldn't he have been the one to say "it's over?"