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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 12:15 pm
Not that it is any of my business...and I totally understand why they have chosen to leave it up to God re: # of children, but...I hope they use birth control now...they don't have to use bc pills, they can use a barrier method. I so hope they talk about that even if they never share that with anyone but the two of them. Michelle is totally wrong thinking she is perhaps too old to have kids. I really hope some dr. has educated her on this. She is only 43. I love this family. I admire them a lot. And, I fear for Michelle's future health and the health and quality of life of future babies and Josie.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 12:20 pm
I'm hoping she had a tubal ligation during the C-section. Or Jim Bob has made a trip to a urologist.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 2:05 pm
Yes OG, I hope so too. A failsafe method would be better. When I was posting, for some reason surgery didn't occur to me.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 3:31 pm
I don't think they'll change their attitude on BC. Maybe they'll abstain but doesn't their Bible tell them to procreate? Unless there was a medical need for a tubal, I doubt that she would would have signed off on that procedure same goes for the male snipsnip. I'm guess # 20 be come soon enough.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 3:57 pm
Considering she was planning her 14th VBAC (vaginal birth after c section) I seriously doubt that she would change anything she's doing at this point. They will consider that god wanted them to have this child, especially if she ends up with special needs. But there are wonderful people out there who adopt those children and frankly I suspect god might smile more upon them. And whoever wrote the Bible and whatever it said before it was interpreted and translated, I sort of doubt that they were anticipating that medicine would now be keeping so many people alive, so literally taking orders.. better for them to simply admit that THEY want their own "congregation" of people they can mold and control, in what they think say and how they dress (well I guess they would like to dictate to others as well considering the protest Michelle left the newborn to attend regarding liquor sales) There are separate issues entirely here. Josie is here and the fervent hope is for her to be free from any problems and as healthy and happy as is humanly possible. But the other issue for me is taking chances with other lives. As for the scene in the NICU.. that certainly did break usual protocol, but in early articles quoted here, it seems that this particular hospital does have separate accommodations so that families can be around a premie and some of the rooms even have video capability so those had home can participate. However I'd be surprised if the rooms were as large as the one shown, so that probably was a setup for TLC filming. I hope and trust that the hospital was extremely careful not to put any of the other babies in their NICU under any unnecessary stress, including noise and lights. And I know that laws don't demand seatbelts in a bus but why on earth would they not have them in their own private bus? I cannot believe that they couldn't get TLC to hook them up with donated belts if money is an issue.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 7:55 pm
I just watched tonights epi. I just love and admire this family so much.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 7:20 am
I think they need to seriously consider the health risks to Michelle. She is getting older and maybe her body is telling her it's time to stop. The toll on her body each time has got to be tough on her. She's already successfully carried a lot of children.
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Spygirl
Board Administrator
04-23-2001
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 12:09 pm
I love this show and love this family. They are amazing parents and deserve the blessings of their children. They accept the risks and face them with courage and faith. By the way, not all hospitals in the country banned children under a certain age...and after seeing more from last night's episode, the hospital took appropriate precautions before letting the children in. And Jim did a great job explaining to the children what they could expect before going in.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 2:54 pm
Copyright 2010 Scott Enlow / TLC Josh and John Duggar of the TLC reality series "19 Kids and Counting" reportedly helped save a 6-year-old girl after she was involved in a car accident. As MSNBC reports, the duo ended up getting some of the dramatic rescue footage on a cell phone -- although there has been no word if the raw video will end up on their show. Last Thursday, there was a three-car fender bender in front of their used car dealership that turned into something much more serious. "I saw her pull in, and that's when I picked up and dialed 911," Josh told the local news. "I knew something was wrong." "This girl, just a few moments earlier, was just an ordinary little girl, and just a split second later she's unconscious and not breathing," his brother John added. The little girl reportedly choked on a chicken nugget during the accident. John, a volunteer fireman, performed CPR until an ambulance arrived. When the emergency team arrived, MSNBC reports that Josh held the IV bag while John used his cell phone to shoot video of the rescue.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 3:28 pm
Always nice when you have that special training to be able to use it in an emergency situation that happens right in front of you.. gratifying. Spy, opinions differ, of course, but them being accepting doesn't wipe out the pain and lifelong suffering that could be brought upon a very innocent life.. or.. the pain to two score or more family members if Michelle were to die because of chances she was willing to take, just so they can have a huge number of children. Free will and faith are all well and good, but it rarely only affects the person exercising that free will and faith. Or as any numbr of medical professionals have expressed to me, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should do it, medically. Anyway, very cool that Josh and John were able to be of such help and participate in saving a little girl. I would hope they would be able to share that on the show!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 3:31 pm
Link to some video about the accident and interview with Joshua. http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=763aedb4-994a-49c6-863d-8f6003f0aba7 Scary.. she was eating chicken nuggets when the accident occurred and it blocked her airway.
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Spygirl
Board Administrator
04-23-2001
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 4:17 pm
One of my healthy 32 year old sorority sisters gave birth to her third child, a baby boy, at 26 weeks. The argument that her decision to get pregnant and inflict pain and lifelong suffering on an innocent life seems somehow highly inappropriate. I experienced preterm labor symptoms at 26 weeks. Should I not have taken the risk by getting pregnant at all? Premature labor possible on a first pregnancy as well as the 19th. What is the acceptable cutoff...past which it is deemed not ok? 2 children? 5? Or maybe we are judging older women? Mayne anyone past 40 shouldn't be so selfish? I think there are women on this board who would disagree because it seems judgemental and unfair, honestly. There isn't a family I could identify that is better prepared to nurture a preemie and I think Josie is one lucky little baby.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 4:30 pm
Long live Josie! I just have a feeling we are going to see her thrive and be perfectly normal.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 4:52 pm
Where did anyone criticize the having of a third child? Hardly comparable to a 19th or to having 14 vbacs which put mother and child at higher risk, clearly just so they can keep having more pregnancies, knowing that she could only have so many C sections. Word it however.. I'm labelled judgemental and unfair.. so be it. But please don't play logic games and imply that I'm making that judgement about the vast majority of families and pregnancies. 3 is not the same as 19. No one should step in and create a rule for any other family, but one would hope that common sense would prevail. I just cannot equate a a woman in her 40s longing for a child to a woman in her 40's who already has well over a dozen healthy children and her pregnancy.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 5:04 pm
Seems to me when you can't take care of all of your "little ones" without the assistance of your teenaged girls, you've had too many children. I love those Duggars, no doubt. But in most families, those teenagers would be out exploring the world outside of their 4 walls. Certainly their religion has been ingrained into them their entire lives, so they know no different and don't seem to mind having a "buddy". But personally, I'll go out on a limb and say that it isn't normal.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 5:08 pm
I work with women with high risk pregnancies. I see everyday what the impact of prematurity is on these tiny babies. Preterm labor does not increase as a woman ages. However, other conditions that may result in preterm delivery do rise as the age of the mother rises. I have not criticized the Duggar's decision to have Josie. Many older women have full term pregnancies, with no complications. However, I do feel that they should think long and hard before attempting another pregnancy....rather than leaving it "up to God".
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 6:19 pm
I'm not making any judgements. I like the Duggar family. My gosh those kids seem very mature and grounded. They are lovable and are loved. Their kindness toward others seems sincere. I agree they are so far from the norm. Most teens would squawk at having a sibling as a "buddy" to raise and teach. That would never have worked in my household. But they are doing something right. The kids are very happy and capable and they are all very nice looking. I wonder how many of them will continue their life on "gods path"? I don't know his name but one of the older sons, when he asked about guessing Josie's gender he said somewhat grumpily "I'm NOT guessing". He seems the least programed and the one that I think will eventually stray. I like the entire family and wish them al continued happiness.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 6:24 pm
I didn't say she'd inflict lifelong pain on anyone. My thought was she should consider her own health after giving birth to so many children in a relatively short period of time. She's not giving her body time to recover. Our bodies aren't meant to be reproducing so much. She has to provide nutrients to that growing baby, which has to be depleting her own body. Michelle has been pregnant with children almost her entire married life. I realize there are twins, too. Oh and I like this family, too. I started watching the shows and saw the love there.
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 6:53 pm
Spygirl, I totally agree with your opinion. As long as they are providing a loving home and all of the necessities for their children, I feel it is their right to have as many children as they choose, just as I feel it is a woman's right to choose to end a pregnancy she is not equipped for in one way or another. Hukdon, perhaps you missed the last episode where the older children were all gone. The seven younger children were being cared for by their brother and sister in law, their grandmother and family friends. That is just as it is in our family when we had to be away. Obviously Michele was able to care for all of her small children before they ever reached their teen years and I don't believe for a minute if any of the children wanted to leave for college or any other adventure that they would be prohibited. As far as the children not seeing "the world", they have actually had far more trips and opportunities to explore the world than I was ever afforded in a family of 3 children. The older children were all out of the country when Josie was born and it wasn't their first trip out of the country. Their lives have been enriched and filled with just as much or more love and support than I had in my small 3 sibling, "normal" family or any of my friend's families that I can remember. I don't see that they have missed out on a thing and in fact have a much better life than many people I know.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 7:21 pm
No, I did not miss the episode. Normally, the older girls take care of the little ones. Being out of the country necessitated different babysitters, that's all. And I think you missed my point about seeing the world. I did not literally mean traveling. I meant the normal going to the mall, out to the movies with friends, staying at friends houses, doing what most teenagers do. They actually said in the last episode that they rarely go anywhere without at least one sibling with them. That in itself is odd, IMO. Yes, they do seem to have a nice life. And I agree with everyone that the parents are doing something right because the children all appear to be well adjusted. But let me go back to Josh and Anna for a minute. He met her at a home school meeting and they dated basically via the telephone and internet. I'll bet my last dollar that every one of those children will meet their future spouses in similar circumstances. The fact is, they only socialize with people who are like them, with their belief systems. I honestly do like this family, but there is definitely some strangeness to them that sometimes causes me to cringe at times. They can not be compared to the large family from Table for 12, where every child absolutely has their own mind.
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 7:48 pm
Your points are well taken, Hukon, I do agree about the "courtship" Thanks for your response.
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 8:12 pm
I was raised in a large family. My grandmother rasied me and my aunts helped her alot. They are only 10 years older then me so they were teens dealing with a little one. They didnt mind at all. I wish more people were like the Duggar Family.
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 8:13 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/02/03/duggars.save.little.girl.ppl/index.html?hpt=T2 This will pull at your heart strings.
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Alisons
Member
01-10-2003
| Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 6:20 am
In previous shows, the Duggars have talked about consulting with the doctors with regards to Michelle's safety in pregnancy. I don't think this is a case of "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead" - I think they have made medical facts part of their decision process. Back in the days before birth control, there was a family in my home town that had TWENTY-FIVE surviving children. Lock Haven, PA, the Walker family, ask anyone (small town.) She was having her kids probably about 80-90 years ago, so there were even less medical advances to ensure her safety. Not that this is the norm for everyone, but just saying, not completely unheard of.
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Misspoufy
Member
09-30-2004
| Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 8:47 am
I'd like to know when we suddenly became the pregnancy police and deciding who should have how many children. THE Bible says, "be fruitful and multiply." Throughout history women have had large numbers of children, safely. Historically families had large numbers of children to work the farm, and other reasons. I do not think it odd or unusual that the older Duggar children help with the younger ones, cheerfully I might add. Neither do I think it unusual that they do not go to the mall or other places by themselves. In this day and age it is not safe for a teenager to do things like that by themselves. I have two sons, they always did things together. (I'm 54 and my HUSBAND won't let me go to the mall by myself) I also don't understand why some think it irresponsible for them to choose to have Josie simply because she was born prematurely. (If you think back, they were shocked she was pregnant again and were not expecting it) There's no logic in that. Her being born prematurely had nothing to do with Michelle's age, prenatal care, or lack thereof, or any other fault of anyone. She was born prematurely because of pre-eclampsia. Something that can happen to women whether they've had 1 child or 100 and whether they're 15 or 50. Up to 8% of pregnant women have pre-eclampsia. So, who decides what's right, who sets the bar for common sense here? I think it lies with Michelle, Jim-Bob and her doctor. I do not see them as people who make rushes into rash judgement. I also do not see them as people who would intentionally put the life of any child at risk and if it is recommended she have no more children I believe they would take the steps necessary to make sure that was the case. These are deeply religious people who care about pleasing God above all things. For how many of us is that our number 1 priority?
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