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Alisons
Member
01-10-2003
| Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 8:38 pm
The Duggars are easy to judge until you watch and get to "know" them. Then it is hard to do anything but love them. I felt exactly the same way about their story until I started watching. And I agree with you, if they were people of color they would likely face even more prejudice.
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Jgalt
Member
02-17-2009
| Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 9:32 pm
Sun, I understand what you're saying, and I have to say, I thought the same thing before watching the show and actually seeing them interact. This life isn't my cup of tea, but it seems to be working for them. I don't really think any of these kids will be in jail or on the welfare rolls due to their upbringing and close family support and ties. I can see them being a positive influence on those around them. I do have problems with the girls having to wear all those clothes, and the obvious bias towards the men who are free to do more things then the girls ( if nothing else the boys can swim in shorts or bathing suits and not roast to death in all those clothes the poor girls wear). I also see where the older girls are carrying around the younger children, which does bother me somewhat, but, again, they seem to love each other, have a fulfilling life, and seem genuinely happy. I just hope that if any of the children decide not to follow the teachings as stricly as their parents, I hope they are not shunned and turned away, but allowed to still be part of the family. I do feel they are very cloistered, but as long as they aren't hiding out on a hill top somewhere with guns shooting at people, I feel they should be free to practice their faith as they see fit. I do question the advisability of Mrs. Dugger having another child, mainly for the welfare of the future baby, the new baby Josie, and the health of the mother, just doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do. As far as your comment about black and hispanics, why is race always brought up? If this was a black or hispanic family with the exact same family values and self sufficiency, I'm sure they would be treated just the same as the Duggers.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:22 pm
I was replying to GAL who wondered about all the older kids and how they must feel actually being parents for the younger siblings. I think they have been raised, conditioned to not expect another life, so they don't seem to go through a normal separation from parents and rebellion that is the biological "job" of most teens and young adults, to separate from their parents and become autonomous. It seems a bit cult like or perhaps just tight controls which could lead to problems since it is unlikely that they will all stay in lockstep and just glide into early marriage and parenthood as the first brother has done. I don't think they are negative in outlook or within their own family and they certainly appeal to me more than a violent family would, but no matter how self sufficient I'm told they are, I just don't buy that they don't have a footprint on the planet, that they are off the grid.. in fact one article mentioned cell phones so they are certainly not off the grid and this giant number of people will grow exponentially if only a few of them follow their parents' lead. I'd personally wish to see more thought given in an active manner to impact. I think god gave us (or we were born with) free will and that includes taking responsibility for our actions and consequences and not just saying that whatever happens when we don't plan is "god's will". That is just my opinion and I certainly have room for very different opinions. === But Josie is here and at the point of her arrival the concentration of my thoughts and wishes have been only for her to survive and thrive. I've been concerned at the delay in current updates on her condition which seemed to be so that the show would seem current and do look for the mosst current info on Josie and that I bring here.
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 5:51 am
Thanks for your clarification, Seamonkey. I much better understand what you meant now. Jgalt, I do agree with you about the girls and their clothing. I would like to see them be able to wear less constrictive attire and something that doesn't obviously make them stand out in a crowd. I would think that jeans could be considered more modest and more appropriate attire for many of the active things they like to do, instead of working around their skirts and actually showing bare legs and ankles and feet which some cultures even consider erotic. I'm also hoping they are as tolerant of their own children's choices as they are of Jim Bob's sister and cousin Amy. It is good to see they are embraced and never treated as "bad influences"
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 6:09 am
I have learned to love this family. I still have concerns like some expressed above. With the Duggars, they are taught a certain doctrine. They form opinions and view others through that doctrine. It's wonderful to teach your kids your morals and views, but they need to be able to form their own opinions, too. Another concern, which I've stated before, is the work load on the girls. I'd love to see them have a more normal teenage life. I guess being the mom of a teenager makes have this wish for them. They need to giggle and be with friends of their choice. Yes, there are worries about the types of friends, but they learn to pick and choose friends over time. They need to talk about boys and listen to music. They need to just be kids for a while before they have to grow up. I don't see these girls getting that chance. The kids are sheltered. They need to learn how to handle the world. I think these kids will grow up very innocent without the key elements they need to handle things. They may end up living with or near their parents as protectors when they grow up. (Just my opinion) I saw a show where the family was watching clogging at a fair. The look on their faces was awful. The dad said they were tired from driving all day, but that does explain the rudeness of the kids. They could have pretended interest. There was a quick note on the screen that the family does not approve of dancing. I cannot imagine the reason behind it. As to pregnancy again, I still question the wisdom of it.We'll see what happens. I truly hope Michelle stays healthy during her pregnancy. (No high blood pressure..etc)
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 6:54 am
Our prisons are bursting at the seams with people who had no 'shelter' in their lives.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 7:01 am
Twigg - while I agree with you for the most part... if the Duggers raised their kids like that then it would be raising them according to your doctrines. We all raise our kids according to our own "doctrines". I love my best friend but I would never raise my kids like she does, it is not according to how I want my kids to grow into young adults. The Dugger's have raised a passel full of wonderful kids. There are a whole lot of people who can't say the same and they are only raising 1 or 2. As for the danger... yep they are taking a risk, but every pregnancy is a risk. My friend Donna's first child was born with Down's syndrome. She was 28 when she had her. There was not supposed to be a risk and yet.. it happened.
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Erniesgirl
Member
06-26-2006
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 8:34 am
No one has mentioned this yet, but I'm sorry Jim Bob, you can not ride the elephant. I'm a huge supporter of The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee. www.elephants.com be sure to click on the elecam All of these elephants were rescued from a circus or zoo and from the time they arrived there, have not been put on public display for amusement purposes.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 8:38 am
Ernie.. Me too.
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Erniesgirl
Member
06-26-2006
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 8:57 am
I actually was so steamed I sent Jim Bob a letter and a link to the TES site. I also enclosed sets of trading cards that we prepared for a fundraiser.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 9:24 am
I don't see these kids and young adults being anything but great citizens. There may be a stray kid that leaves the nest and becomes the "problem child" but even then I see the family giving love and support. I don't care about their religous ideologies, they have a right to worship how they want. For me, this faimly is delightful, loving, honest and an asset to any community.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 9:52 am
That stray child will be Jinger. She's a rebel. 
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 11:04 am
I've never seen this show either and yet I check this thread from time to time because it gets so much activity that I can't help being curious, lol. And then seeing the post about the Elephant Sanctuary made me read back a bit to see if there was a discussion about it. I love elephants - as anyone who reads N&V probably knows - and so admire & am grateful for all the work the Sanctuary does. So this isn't completely off-topic, when it comes to fertility issues there're very good biological, ethical, and practical reasons why giving birth to 19 children, or having octuplets, or birth mothers who qualify for AARP are not the norm. This will no doubt anger some but I think it's probable that there's a streak of narcissism in many of these cases. What's best for the children (or society or the planet) matters less than what these parents want. I'm not sure that's something to applaud or encourage, generally speaking. Having a reality show that broadcasts one's kids' private lives is also questionable, imho, but that's a different topic.

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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 11:10 am
One may not agree with them, but I doubt seriously they are having all their children because of ego. They simply believe that the number of children they have is God's will.
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 11:36 am
My favorite story is that of Jenny and Shirley. I first saw it years ago on a documentary. I will never forget that reunion. Beautiful. http://www.elephants.com/shirley/shirleyPhotos2.php
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 11:57 am
I know its not related but here is Shirley and Jenny's story. Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzEUayHqrRc&NR=1 Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKxgLvIS6Y&feature=related
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 12:00 pm
Terolyn: That is a touching story! Texannie: It's God will if these were all virgin births. Otherwise I'm pretty sure it's due to having sex without practicing contraception. If you look at human behavior, there's often a very close connection between "I believe" and "I want". I'm not being disrespectful, it's just how things often are. Would any woman who wasn't under outside pressure have so many pregnancies if she didn't want them?
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Erniesgirl
Member
06-26-2006
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 12:17 pm
Tarra and Bella are famous too Terolyn: http://www.youtube.com/elephantsanctuarytn#p /u/15/qAN5nf04L2s
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Terolyn
Member
05-06-2004
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 12:29 pm
I have Tarra's book 
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Erniesgirl
Member
06-26-2006
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 12:53 pm
Oh, yes, Travels with Tarra. Carol also wrote Just for Elephants.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 12:54 pm
Hmmmm maybe the world should emulate China's 1 baby boy philosophy. ;) (joke) I know of families with one child that leave a much larger carbon footprint than the Duggers do...in fact maybe my family does??? I consider myself agnostic bordering on atheist but support the Duggers right to their religious beliefs on reproduction. The Duggers are definitely not the norm. Thankfully the Duggers have the right to live as they choose since they aren't breaking any laws. And I'm sure they've heard all sorts of people tell them how they should be living their lives.
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Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 2:04 pm
Lilfair: If you were referring to my post, I said that parents putting their wants ahead of everything else is not something I reckon we should encourage or applaud. Unless I blindly support anything someone chooses to do, I'm telling him/her how to live? I don't think so. That probably sounds snarky but it's not meant to be. Giving birth 19 times or having fertility treatments to have octuplets are deliberate choices - choices that can have serious consequences for the children and others. It's fine to talk about parents' rights but they also have responsibilities.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 2:28 pm
Calamity, I disagree. For them it is a faith issue. I think the Duggars are raising responsible, self reliant, children who understand the meaning of frugality and living debt free. I think that is taking their responsibilities seriously.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 2:34 pm
Not to split hairs, but Michelle has had two sets of twins which cuts down the number of times she's actually been pregnant. I know early on there was a miscarriage.
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Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Friday, May 28, 2010 - 2:50 pm
NadiaS didn't have fertility treatments to have octuplets, she did so to have one. It may not have been the brightest thing she and her doctor did, but it's done, and from what she said on Oprah, the kids are relatively healthy. And I think I read a while back that doctors may put some regulations on fertility treatments; I forget what doctor regulatory something or other it was. I think the Duggars are grown, they've got their own money, so if they feel they can support 19 children, financially and emotionally, then I'm not going to judge them. I've seen the show a couple of times, I don't feel their kids are exploited, unlike other shows. I guess we'll find out from the kids when they're adults, but I really hope they are the loving family they seem to be. I know from experience that it doesn't matter how many kids someone has, it's the love and care that is given to them. A family can have three kids, two parents, a dog, a cat and two cars and be the most abusive house on the block, so I don't think it's the size, it's the quality of care, love and support that's inside.
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