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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 1:44 pm
She has taken responsibility, many times, for how she treated Jon. I have seen her on interview after interview say how much she regretted it. Whether she has said that directly to him, I don't know. But no, Kate did not *contribute* to his behavior. He is *solely* responsible for his own bad behavior, just as she is for hers. So, no, I don't agree to disagree. You can think whatever you want, but Jon was a jerk, he admits it. Kate was a jerk, she admits it. Neither is responsible for the *other* person's jerkdom, they are each responsible for their own. On the one hand, you say she blames everyone else, on the other you blame her for Jon's bad behavior. That seems to me, rather inconsistent. And even Jon says so, he says he is *learning* to take responsibility for his own actions. Good for him, it's about time. 
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Countrydaze
Member
11-07-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 2:41 pm
Jon spent most of their married life being beaten down. She used to yell and scream at him and cut him down. I watched the shows from the beginning and she was never very nice to him. She even said bad things about him to the kids, telling them not to listen to him as he wasn't a very nice person. He was always so much more loving to the kids and I do blame her for pushing him over the edge. Yes, he was wrong, but so was she and why did she not put those kids in therapy in the beginning. I heard her on a talk show saying that she would put them in therapy, when they needed it. So she waited until two of the kids were kicked out of school before they were in therapy, oh wait, they weren't kicked out of school, because she said so. How many people have worked for her and left their employ, wow I would love to hear their side of the story.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 3:24 pm
"""She has taken responsibility, many times, for how she treated Jon. I have seen her on interview after interview say how much she regretted it. """ Yes, but not very convincingly. When she recites that script in interviews it's hard for me to believe what she says. She comes off as a very poor actress saying lines. Just like she says the kids weren't expelled from school, really, Kate you can say that with a straight face. I just don't trust anything she says as being truthful.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 3:40 pm
I worked in a school system for 15 years. MANY times, children act out with anger. We brought the parents in and sometimes got to the bottom of it. And YES, as a matter of FACT, we would work with the parents and the children began services in their home. I can't recall a single instance when a child was expelled, and we had children with KNIVES in their backpacks. But here we go again, we're talking about Kate Gosselin, so every single thing out of her mouth must be a lie...
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 4:26 pm
"Jon spent most of their married life being beaten down. She used to yell and scream at him and cut him down. I watched the shows from the beginning and she was never very nice to him. She even said bad things about him to the kids, telling them not to listen to him as he wasn't a very nice person. He was always so much more loving to the kids..." We did not see most of their married life. I watched all the shows until the last few with both of them. He yelled at her and cut her down too. He said bad things about her to the kids too. He also ignored her a number of times that were shown on tv. People who are overwhelmed and get ignored often tend to get louder. They both behaved badly at times. They both behaved nicely at times. In my opinion, overall he was the least loving of the two towards the kids...and we saw the same show. I do not think she was "never very nice to him" at all from what was shown to us on tv. From my memory, she was physically more affectionate to him on camera than he was to her. I do not hold that against him either. He and she are probably just different in that area. He made her coffee in the morning, that was a way he was shown being nice. They both had times of being nice and being not so nice on camera. We saw very little of their lives.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 4:56 pm
So, if Kate says it, it's not believable, but Jon's so-called apologies are believable, because it's Jon? I'm not buying that. They both had problems, they both brought those problems to their marriage, and they both behaved badly. You can't push someone over the edge if they stand firm. And if Kate is lying about the kids being expelled, good on her. She's protecting those children, as she should. It's none of our business.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 4:58 pm
We saw only a miniscule part of their lives...and then only what the producers wanted us to see; we know vertually nothing about them.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 5:19 pm
Kate was overwhelmed having a 7th child to look after and make sure he was doing what he was supposed to do to be a equal part of the relationship. That was not her job, yet he made it her job, so yeah, she was overwhelmed and shrewish. Who wouldn't be.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 5:35 pm
I don't find either of them appealing. They deserved each other.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 5:40 pm
\i I don't see her blaming anyone else in that article.} Really? I see her blaming Jon. She has hit below the belt so many times and yet his apologies aren't done the right way. She's the one who should be apologizing, not Jon. Always Kate, the victim. This woman will do anything and I mean anything to get on TV. What power does she have with ABC to be able to go on TV because something was printed in a magazine or tabloid. How many people have that power? So she has enough money to have a sub-husband/bodyguard, private school, tutors, etc., but somehow all these things will not make her a better Mom or give her a better connection with her children. The hubris of this woman never ceases to amaze me. Someone needs to put a tatoo on her forehead while she's sleeping that says, "Kate..YOU are not the victim." Perhaps if she sees it in the mirror enough she might get it.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 5:55 pm
Right, Kate has "power" over ABC. She is on various shows because her life is so controversial. Just look at this thread and it's the very reason she stays in the news. If everyone liked her, she'd be on shows for that reason. If everyone hated her, she wouldn't. She rides in the middle, thanks to those who openly don't. I hope she keeps making money hand over fist because at least ONE parent has to support those 8 mouths. The other parent certainly hasn't stepped up to the plate.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 6:15 pm
Just for you, Huk:

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Countrydaze
Member
11-07-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 6:46 pm
Well, Jon wanted to work in the media and TLC won't allow him to. Granted that is not Kate's fault, but I do feel that if she wanted to protect her children, she should have taken a time out from the show to concentrate on helping their children heal from the divorce instead of letting those kids be on the air while their dirty laundry was being aired. Personally I am tired of hearing how she has to support those kids because he won't. Well TLC won't allow him to, and if she doesn't have to go back to being a nurse, why should he have to take a lesser paying job and why can't he get a good job in the business????? Just sayin....
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 6:55 pm
It's like any business...he burned his bridges in show business when he badmouthed TLC and broke contract. Why would anyone want to hire someone like that? Jon burned bridges and Kate kissed asses. That's on him.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 7:05 pm
I don't see anywhere in that article (or in the interview that it came from, because I watched it) where she was blaming Jon. She was simply answering the questions that were asked. Jon still spends a lot of time *blaming* her for having the kids on tv, but I don't see him providing any substantial support. Again, while Kate is supposed to take all this responsibility, it's as if Jon gets to blame everyone else for his troubles - Kate, TLC. Poor victim Jon!
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Countrydaze
Member
11-07-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 7:11 pm
That is exactly why I say we should agree to disagree.....While I may not agree with what others say, they are certainly allowed to to have their own opinions and I do respect that, but clearly I am not allowed to have my opinions, so I guess I will just stay off this sight and keep my opinions to myself.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 7:30 pm
Everyone's opinions are posted, so I don't understand what is meant by not being allowed to have one?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 8:09 pm
You're allowed to have your own opinion, of course. But to agree to disagree to me means to drop the conversation. You can quit discussing if you like it, but I"m not agreeing to disagree because I want to continue discussing it. I just intended to keep saying why I see it differently. 
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Countrydaze
Member
11-07-2003
| Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 9:08 pm
Perhaps I took it wrong, but "to me" agreeing to disagree has always meant that I respect your opinion and you respect mine. I clearly am not going to change your opinion and you clearly are not going to change mine. Sorry if I took it personally.}
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 7:04 am
This just came to mind: In the movie 'Best Little Whorehouse In Texas' Dolly's character sings a song about 'nothin' dirty going on here'. The same could be said for this thread in that 'there's nothing personal going on here'.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 10:25 am
I'm sorry there isn't a tone of voice indicator here, that would really help sometimes! It's not meant personally, at all. I understand that you see it differently. It's just my experience that when someone says 'let's just agree to disagree', that effectively ends the discussion. So, we can disagree without stopping the discussion, as I see it. And my opinion is always open to change, if I learn something new that supports that change. It's just in this case, I see them as both having some real issues; however, I do see Jon as far more irresponsible, which has been very damaging to his children. Kate is controlling and obsessive and often impatient, and while these are difficult things for children, it is balanced by her presence and her obvious caring for her children. In my opinion. 
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 2:33 pm
Very interesting, Karuuna. I see it differently than you. Interesting that you think Jon's behavior has been very damaging to his children. I see Kate's behavior as much more damaging. Kate's 'presence' is overbearing. She often yells at the children, while not being that affectionate with them. Even in current photos or clips of videos of the children with Jon, they seem very relaxed with him. I don't see his behavior at the beginning of the divorce as having lasting effects on the children; whereas I DO see Kate's everyday behavior and treatment of the children as having extreme effects. I don't see Kate as being as hands on with the children as she was when they were little and before she became what she thinks is a 'personality.' She has nannies that care for the children.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 3:00 pm
Here's an article that seems to agree that Kate put Jon down. I don't understand why the two children acting out are missing Jon. Has his visitation been restricted again? Since he is living in PA once again, perhaps one solution might be to let him have more visitation. Kate Gosselin Gets Defensive; Slams Jon
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 3:20 pm
The article is an *opinion* of what they saw on the interviews. Oddly enough, I saw two of those interviews as well, and came away with a *different* opinion. I saw no "frustration or anger" when she was asked a direct question about whether she accepted his "Twitter apology". She answered quite matter of factly that she had never been apologized to in person, and she didn't consider a Twitter post to be a valid apology. I wouldn't either. Even when she said she was still 'hurt and angry', she immediately said she doesn't dwell on it and she has forgiven him so she can move on. She seemed quite calm, and I didn't see any of the emotion the author of that blast piece did. Exaggeration, IMO.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, December 03, 2010 - 3:24 pm
. Interesting that you think Jon's behavior has been very damaging to his children. I see Kate's behavior as much more damaging. Kate's 'presence' is overbearing. She often yells at the children, while not being that affectionate with them. I base that on my experience with struggling children. For the most part, they are far more angry and upset with the absent parent, and the parent that has moved on (as Jon has done again and again and again) to other adult relationships. It's confusing and upsetting to children, especially when they meet new mate after new mate. Also, Jon is the one who *chose* to move away. FWIW, while there are nicey nice video clips of Jon out there, I've also seen some others that are not so nice; where the children do act out with Jon, expressing their frustration and anger. FWIW, in these cases the stable parent, the one who is there, day after day, even tho imperfect, is the better parent. Jon has been too erratic in his behavior with his children, and the lack of consistency causes great anger and insecurity in children.
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