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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 6:17 pm
I'm incredibly (and fortunately) naive when it comes to separation and divorce so please bear with me. How is Jon introducing different partners into his children's lives different than a child who spends six hours a day with a teacher for a year and then moves on to a new teacher in the following year? Children are often involved with adults who are very important and play a big part in their lives and then move on.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 6:32 pm
I swore I was going to keep out of this thread, but I have to respond to you Jimmer. Teachers are very different than "new mommy" candidates. First of all, kids usually know that they're going to get a new teacher every year, if not, they learn quickly. When Dad brings home a new girl, or Mom brings home a new boy, they are looked at by kids (at least from my own personal experience), as possibly being the new "parent" in their life. We don't expect them to be switched out on an annual (sometimes semi-annual) basis. When it doesn't work out, if we liked the candidate we're very, very sad...if we didn't like the candidate we're very, very happy. To keep repeating this situation over and over again can do major damage to a child.
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Glenn
Member
07-05-2003
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 6:34 pm
Kar, thanks for the game of one on one. It is like playing with Michael Jordan. You know you are not going to win but you hope you can sink a few to stay in the game. I never expect to alter your views or anyone else, but it is good to get some exercise occasionally.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:24 pm
Brenda, just google Ellen Ross and Jon. You'll find dozens of articles with photos. Jimmer, it is very very different. Teachers are there for a daily purpose, you go to school to learn from them. They don't take you to the park, they don't come into your home, they in general can't even hug you and hold you when you cry any more, they don't read you bedtime stories and tuck you into bed at night, they don't nurse you when you are sick or scared or lonely. The mate of a parent is more like a parent than a teacher. And these mates are brought into their lives with that expectation - this person is going to be with daddy as his partner forever. The attachments are much different and much deeper. Finally, there are rituals set up around school end, for children to say goodbye and to have healthy closure as they move on to new teachers. Breakups usually are not civil, and that doesn't happen. One day the new mate is there, and one day you never get to see her again, but get to hear dad say how awful she was, right after months of saying how wonderful she was. It's all very confusing, and complex and hard for children to deal with. In addition, these children have limited time with their dad. They may be spending less time with him than at school. They should have his undivided attention, at least for the time being when the family changes are so new.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:27 pm
LOL, Glenn, you are welcome. I enjoyed the discussion. And I believe that in a few months when the new miss has moved on, and Jon is calling her every name in the book; and then on top of it all stops paying child support, people will know that I was right all along. 
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Glenn
Member
07-05-2003
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:34 pm
Okay, seriously that is going to hurt you if you thump your chest that hard.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:47 pm
Isn't anyone watching this one hour PR show for Kate tonight? I had to LOL when her friend said she was "surprised" at how much people love Kate. I whole heartedly agree! I find it interesting that instead of just seeing the kids, we are given a one hour show to redeem Kate. We get to hear her say "why all the fuss about the hair" and then see that a camera crew was there for the 18 hour extension session. It's just all so odd to me. And she says she's been working on her "tact" for "years". yearS? With an S? Really??? Thanks Karuuna. I googled and found an article that said she is a "big improvement" over his last girlfriends. LOL. I'm still disappointed US is not keeping me in the loop. And I'm disappointed Jon is introducing girlfriends to the kids. Not until the relationship is proven and long term should that happen. I really hope he's presenting her as a "friend" and not displaying romance. But I already talked about how I don't think most men are sensitive enough about this regarding divorce and children and when to bring around the new date. It's a shame for sure.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:50 pm
Okay, seriously that is going to hurt you if you thump your chest that hard. LOL, Glenn. It was most certainly said tongue in cheek. 
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 7:54 pm
I listened to both hours, the Kate Plus 8, and then the Just Kate. As always, there were things about Kate that I liked, and other things not so much. I was surprised to learn that she has had a best friend for 9 years, I always had the impression from reading here that she had no longlasting friends at all. I teared up when she talked about hearing about the custody fight on the internet, and her self doubt - I really identified with that irrational but insidious fear that some stranger could decide that you weren't a fit mother, and award your children to someone else's care. I've been there.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 8:22 pm
Thanks for the good explanations regarding teachers and other important adults in kids lives. I see how there is a form of expected closure at the end of a school year. I doubt that Jon would introduce these women he is seeing to the children as potential mommies. Perhaps a better comparison would be with nannies (who do tuck kids in at times and look after various hurts and emotional traumas) and the children becoming deeply attached and then the nanny moving on but again the expectations are different. I also think it would be much more of an issue if the other parent isn't a factor in the children's lives. I don't think it is likely that any of Jon's girlfriends will be seen by the children as "mommy" material with Kate continuing to play such a huge role in their lives. Nevertheless, I agree that a revolving door of girlfriends doesn't promote stability.
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Glenn
Member
07-05-2003
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 8:41 pm
Jimmer, one of my daughters was a nanny for an affluent family while attending college. They told my daughter up front that it would only be for a year maximum. When I asked why, the mom told me that they had decided they did not want the youngsters becoming too attached to their nanny. Seemed logical at the time but I would love to hear the conclusions the youngsters had about all this.
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Florin
Member
08-27-2006
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 8:43 pm
I watched both shows and enjoyed them both. I liked seeing the kids again.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 9:00 pm
Jimmer, the parent could call them whatever they wanted...nanny, uncle, babysitter, friend. However, children of divorce are astute at picking up the vibe of what that person entering their life is. They may not be introduced as "potential mommies or daddies", but kids innately know the difference between a regular babysitter and a woman or man who is involved with the parent on a personal level. I have friends that can count on two hands the number of "uncles" that they had come into their lives and go right back out again, who took on the "daddy" role for a short time and then disappeared. And I'm purposefully keeping this convo gender neutral, because it does go both ways. Either parent should be very careful about bringing their romantic interests into their children's lives. It can have a huge impact on kids, especially kids of the opposite sex of the parent that is doing it. For boys, it can be devastating if the mother is the one bringing around men all the time, with girls, it's the father bringing around women.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 9:47 pm
I watching the new show now and finding myself quite bored with it. I miss Jon! I think watching the adults interact was interesting, funny at times. Just listening to Kate narrate everything is wearing on me. The kids sure have grown a lot. I'm wondering where her friends kids are. Didn't she also have kids? Kind of odd that she's on the mega trip with Kate and Kate's kids, but her own kids are home? Maybe she's divorced too and the kids are with dad? I want to go to Discovery Cove!
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 9:50 pm
I was very bored too. The narration by Kate, I think is what bored me...
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 10:19 pm
Jimmer, a big (and unfortunate, at times) difference for some kids with revolving "uncles" or "aunts" (as in partners of their mom and dad, is that these people often do take a parental role.. this can be very very good if the person in that role is well meaning, but it can be very very bad if that person is anti kid or abusive, or if they see the kids as rivals for their new partner's time and affection. Somewhat more likely if the new partner/s happend to be significantly younger than their parent. (not always.. there of course can be wonderful step parents who remain in the parent and kids life basically forever, but when the situation is one of serial dating, that isn't the case). Jon further muddied things up when he did combine dating/nanny duties in one person. I would think the older kids would be suspicious of any nanny who seemed too close to dad now. Teachers have a completely different role, or should. Even if a child is in a situation of being raised by a "village", at least in our society, the parents remain the key people in most kids lives. --- I'm recording the shows when they air later tonight, while I record Treme, Army Wives and a couple of PBS specials, and while I'm watching a little marathon from my dvr of the first four eps of Friday Night Lights, so I don't know what I think of the show, yet.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 5:28 am
loved seeing those kids!! where has the babies gone?? the kids seemed awfully 'normal' to me. i also thought their reaction to the crew was very genuine. i also enjoyed the behind the scenes show. her exhaustion and heartache in the limo broke my heart. i am not divorced, but have my kids leaving/getting ready to leave the nest, and I completely relate to that feeling of 'did i fail as a parent? did i prepare my kids for the world?' i know there have been rumors about her and the bodyguard. i didn't see anything in their body language to suggest an intimate relationship, but i think he is good for her. he seems to be pretty straight forward in how he deals with her. i thought the Meredith Vierra, the People woman and the other guy made some pretty insightful and accurate comments/observations.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:23 am
Jimmer, I'm hearing what you're saying, but really that's not how life really is in these situations. The youngest of these kids are six, and they know that anyone their dad is dating is a potential new "mommy." That's the reality of the world today. And if you think there isn't any affection shown between Jon and Ellen, and he's introducing her as a nanny, well, I don't know what to say. Again, that's just not a realistic view in my opinion. Possible? Yes. Likely? No, not at all. You're talking about a man that has dated something like six twenty-somethings in a year, many of the relationships were extremely warped, and now you're attributing some kind of mature outlook to him that he simply has not shown in any way. At any rate, Jon is still bucking the advice of child psychology in this issue. You should not introduce your new loves (or squeezes) into your children's lives until 6 months to a year of dating, and only then if you are moving toward making a permanent commitment. The damage is clear if that advice isn't taken. It's quite interesting to me that the man who wanted to go to counseling while he was married, doesn't take himself there now. It only shows that what he wanted from counseling was that Kate should change. A pretty dishonest motive, altho not uncommon, sadly. Now that she's not part of it, he obviously doesn't think he needs it at all. And he does. 
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:34 am
Oh I certainly don't think Jon would be introducing a girlfriend as a nanny (LOL - though anything is possible). Perhaps as a friend and I would certainly hope that they wouldn't be all over each other in front of the children. I do see a bit of a difference with Kate so strongly in the picture (as opposed to a single parent who is handling all of the parenting and having the children depend solely on him or her, such as the case when one spouse is deceased or permanently absent). Regardless, it's my opinion that he has had way too many girlfriends in any event. Sheesh he is a wild man! Again, I apologize if my naivety regarding children and divorce makes me appear insensitive.
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Chewpito
Member
01-04-2004
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 10:44 am
I dont really watch the show, got about 20min last night... but have been reading all your comments. I was a single Mom from the time my daughter was 9months...I dated and my daughter is 25 now and fine... We had family dates, picnics, camping trips, and shared bday party's and not always with the same guy... I was not a revolving door but I had enough sense to enjoy friendships and still be a great Mom... I never told my daughter that this was your new Daddy...(thats creepy) She just knew them as friends....and we had tons of fun going and doing things together... Now If Jon is being sexual in front of the kids, thats wrong...Im not sure I know what he's doing..Is he telling the kids that this is thier new Mommy...cause that is wierd too....but if they are just introduced as Daddys friends and everyone is having fun...I dont get it.. I have lots of gal pals that I do stuff with thru the yrs that have moved away or got married and stopped coming around... what would the difference be?.. People come and go all the time...better get used to it I sopose..
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 11:31 am
I think the difference is that these kids were old enough to know mommy & daddy together. To see their dad or mom with other people would be hard cuz I believe MOST kids want their parents to be together. Kids are number 1, you introduce your new friend(s) when its good for the kids, not for yourself I don't think Jon isn't telling the kids this is their new mommy...I just can't see that Personally I don't think kids should be introduced to a boyfriend/girlfriend so soon, especially 6 in one year. thats disgusting.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 12:05 pm
Friends that come and go are quite different than someone you are dating. With respect, Chewpito, I would say that your situation was different because it sounds like there was no dad involved, and thus less emotional conflict for your daughter. There was no one for her to compare to, or miss, for that matter. It is quite different when, as Cinnamon stated, they have strong memories of being a family and split loyalties because custody is shared. They can't help but wonder if this new person is going to like them, be around a lot, be nice to them, be mean to them, take away dad's attention from them (and they have limited attention from him now as it is); and of course there are the ongoing fantasies that mom and dad will get back together. These kids don't need to be exposed to more loss. They are dealing with loss every single day, since they always feel the loss of the parent they are not with at the moment; as well as all the changes in their personal lives; and that mommy isn't always there any more either, now that she has to work. I said give the poor dears an emotional break. Jon has very little custody (his choice), he has plenty of time to see his gal pal at those times. When the kids are with him, pay attention to them. Hard enough for any one of them to get attention already.
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Sia
Member
03-10-2002
| Monday, June 07, 2010 - 4:21 pm
I saw Kate's first episode and three-fourths of the second one. I find her more subdued now; maybe in the time she's had away from the cameras she's learned to be, somehow, quieter. . . or I thought so until she started squealing about the birds touching her. She gets pretty loud and whiny when it comes to creepy, yucky things, too. I found it typical of her when she said she was ready to leave Discovery Cove when one of the kids handed her a little container of live worms. Kate's always ready to move on when it suits her, not when the kids are ready. I really did like the fact that she took Alexis back to Discovery Cove for a one-on-one exploration of the park (and swimming with the dolphins) after Lexie had gotten over being sick. It was thoughtful of Kate to make sure that all eight kids got to have the experience and that it wouldn't be a sad memory for any of them in the future. I like the quieter, more reflective Kate. I'm sure she's learned a lot about herself this past year. I did find it surprising that the practice floor that had been installed in the basement of the family mansion had been dismantled so quickly. Somehow I figured it would stay a part of their home and that it would make great rehearsal space if the kids ever took gymnastics or dance. Mady still annoys the heck out of me. I find that girl impatient, mouthy, disrespectful, whiny, and not humble in any way. I don't know why she has such an abrasive personality, but she just rubs me the wrong way. All people are different, and some show their true colors at a young age. Years ago I read that a person's basic personality traits are formed by the age of five. Does anyone have any sources to cite regarding the truth/untruth of that statement? Thanks.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 5:26 am
my daughter and i swam with the dolphins in Mexico a few years ago. It was probably the coolest thing I have ever done and may will ever do!!!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 5:47 am
Jimmer, Actually Jon DID install a date/girlfriend as a nanny.. remember when Kate was barred from the property when she went to check up on the kids after one of them had called about the "new babysitter". That was the bartender he hired because he said he was busy interviewing with TLC in the basement. This same woman is the one who spent the night in his garage apartment.. she was documented by the paparazzi coming out in the morning and also the same one who reported that she was making out in the hot tub and the kids were in the house (with a real nanny) and she worried that they'd look out windows and see them but Jon said they were asleep. So in that case he was overt. Not to mention various pictures of him being affectionate to other girlfriends which have appeared on the internet and in the tabloids. I think at least the twins have to be aware that these aren't just "friends". And if they weren't you know their classmates have heard their parents gossiping and happily passed the info along. I've been to see birds and have to say that in our group of adults, all of us delighted with the birds, there was still some shrieking going on when a bird surprised someone. The whole tour seemed highly managed, time-wise, so I didn't really think Kate cut that part drastically short. Now when the alligator hissed at them, yeah.. but as much as I'm more like Alexis in enjoying reptiles and such, if I had my 8 kids (not that I have any kids).. but even if I had dogs or cats nearby, I'd be reacting swiftly. I can still remember hearing a rattlesnake and just how quickly and firmly I ordered six labradors BACK into the house! You just protect those you hold dear. So hissing alligator.. I'm with Kate, even though watching I was Alexis wanting to see more. I did enjoy the shows. Steve has that Kiwi accent.. so distinct from an Aussie accent. Like Tiger Woods' caddy and the friends I had visit from New Zealand. The dolphins on that cake were so cute. We didn't get a detailed look but it seemed like there were "girl" and "boy" dolphins.. I saw a bow on one. The scene in the limo.. at the time Jon's attorney filed that suit I thought the timing stunk and guess I was right. But I'm sure that was the purpose of the timing.. perhaps hoping to force Kate away from that income.
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