Author |
Message |
Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 8:11 am
I wasn't trying to make a Bible excuse. Just responding to someone above who said, God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam, Eve, Marge, Francine, Lois, Meri, Robyn, Christine, etc. Oh yeah, it was you, Escapee! I don't think the Bible has anything to do with it. Kody is just plain smarmy, full of himself and icky!!! (I still love this show. It's a train wreck!)
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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 12:49 pm
One thing I've learned is that hand picked examples from the Bible and applying our understanding to the outcome and what it was based on is not usually accurate. God's people were allowed to be polygamous, people that he found to be "righteous" were polygamists. My own opinion is that people are not by nature, monogamous, whether it is as one time or over a lifetime. I was raised to believe that celebrating a birthday was wrong because the bad things that happened in the birthdays in the Bible. Kody seems like he wanted to live a way that suited his needs and he found a way to do that. I believe that the women are willing participants although my opinion of them is that they are not very confident or strong-willed. I don't think that we can say that polygamy is or isn't "right" because there are Biblical examples of people who were considered righteous who did it. It is illegal in our country but in many other countries it is not. I'm not sure why it is illegal in our country but I'm also not sure why gay marriage is illegal either. Maybe it has something to do with the same uptight beliefs that are affecting that outcome.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 6:24 pm
And so far, in theory, our country isn't run by one of many translations of the Bible, too. But still polygamy is against the law in all 50 states, in part because of the whole package of what it was.. men claiming to be chosen by god to be in charge, to decide who married, when they married, how many they married and at what age they married and then who might be taken from one husband and assigned to another .. and the driving out of young men (potential rivals for the young girls/women). Lots of this still happening in the very fundamental LDS groups. These people don't seem that bad, except that Kody is quite juvenile and annoying and I don't think they will be in legal trouble unless they are defrauding in terms of taxes or benefits. It seems that, unless they become runaway reality stars and pull in some big checks that they already have been hurt in terms of income (Meri losing her job and Kody losing accounts).
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 6:40 pm
I wasn't handpicking anything. I was providing a counter argument re a specific story of polygamy - that the moral of that ONE story, per the most common translations is that having so many wives eventually turned Solomon's heart away from God. I will also say that every single story of polygamy in the Bible is about the strife and trouble it causes, while not ever exactly saying that it is right or wrong. You decide what it's trying to tell ya. 
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 8:08 pm
Yep, I gotta agree with Kar on this one.
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Twiggyish
Member
08-14-2000
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 4:35 am
It's not something I would personally do. I'm not sharing.
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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 7:28 am
Right and I grew up being told that every example of a birthday party, in the Bible, showed that only bad things happen at a birthday party. I don't know what it's trying to tell me, I actually don't live by the Bible. And, polygamy is not defined as men claiming to be chosen by God, etc. Some have chosen to make it that way but in monogamous marriages some men have chosen to set it up that they are in charge and the woman is subservient. I'm just saying that there are lots of options available. I would not mind creating a polygamist home, according to the theories that I have for it, it is nothing like a fundamentalist LDS scenario at all and it's nothing like Kody's comfy little configuration.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 7:33 am
Jenjackso, I am confused about birthday's in the bible. I am not recalling any bible-birthdays.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 8:21 am
Escapee, there are only two birthday celebrations listed, both by nonbelievers, an Egyptian pharoah who killed one of his servants that day, and by Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded that day. Not exactly a big condemnation (*every* example?), altho I understand some faiths take it that way. That and the fact that there are no stories of believers celebrating birthdays. In addition, some faiths (like JW's) don't celebrate birthdays because they have origins in paganism. Jenjackso, you are arguing in circles it seems. First you say Solomon was allowed by God to be polygamist, so polygamy is okay; and then that you don't care what the Bible says. I'm more than happy to discuss it, but I'm a little confused. Personally, I think the Bible is open to interpretation. That's why I jumped in when you appeared to be saying God permits polygamy. I just don't think it's that clear on the matter, either way.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 8:29 am
The bible says to honor they wife and not to covet others. How polygamy fits into that commandment, I will never know. It also says not to abandon the wife of your youth (I think). I need to brush up on my bible readin'. I also agree that the bible is open to interpretation, purposely.
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Konamouse
Member
07-15-2001
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 8:47 am
Variety is the spice of life. Love can be shared. Unless it's just for the physical gratification. And it has to go both ways (i.e. if the man is allowed multiple partners, then the women should be given the same option). Of course there needs to be mutually agreed upon ground rules and total disclosure. The only folks who worry about what the Bible says are the people who feel more comfortable living their lives around the Bible - and then you shouldn't pick and choose your verses. Of course everything is open to interpretation. The Torah has been studied for centuries and the great rabbinical scholars have made adjustments for agricultural revolution, industrial revolution and now the computer age. How do you fit something over 5000 years old into modern society mores? And then you have New Testament books written less than 2000 years ago. Not to mention the various translations that can change ONE word which can change the entire meaning of the verse, depending on the version you are reading. Even the 10 Commandments are written differently in the Torah compared to a Catholic Bible. Fascinating stuff. Back to polygamy. Personally, the shark & I have no problem when there are CONSENTING ADULTS (and they have waited until they are older, more in tune & communicating with eachother). It's not a good thing for youngsters (i.e. under 30 years old). Your mind & outlook really matures later in life.

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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 10:05 am
I am not arguing in circles. I don't follow what the Bible says. I know what it says. I understand why some Bible followers believe that polygamy is okay based on the Bible. Then others are saying that the Bible is showing that polygamy is wrong because it turned out bad for the people who did it. I pointed out that the Bible also shows that things turned out bad for people who celebrated birthdays. It is not arguing in circles to point out the correlation to that type of Biblical application. The Bible also condemns men who lie with men. Bible followers often believe just the part of the Bible that they want to believe. According to the Bible you also should not eat shrimp and people should be stoned to death. Others brought it around to the Bible and I pointed out that polygamy was in the Bible, it's not my argument, just that it's not a good example to use. JWs do not believe that birthdays are based in paganism. They believe that Christmas (which happens to be a birthday to Christians) is from the pagan holiday Saturnalia. I agree with Kona that consenting adults should be able to be polygamous as they see it fits their needs. The way that Kody does it is actually consenting adults and seems very open to his children to choose for themselves so in that manner I admire his methods. He is not taking teenage girls to be his wives. And, it works for them so more power to them, he still seems like a little boy to me though and stuck in some fantasy world.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 10:22 am
Jenjackso, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Your first post did seem like you were making an argument based on your *belief* that the Bible makes it okay. I personally don't care if you follow the Bible or not, I was just confused. And yes, many JW's do believe birthdays are based on paganism, well, because they are. As did the early Jewish people. Birthdays were often recorded so astrologers could make predictions, thus they had strong ties to paganism. As for polygamy, I don't really care among consenting adults. The question of course is always "what is a consenting adult?", and why are these marriages so highly rooted in patriarchy.
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 12:47 pm
It's easier for me to accept the kind of polygamist sects where the women dress in turn of the century garb and the men make all the decisions, where courtship consists of your father telling you which man has decided to marry you, 14 or not. I accept that, because it's so foreign to me that I can just accept that I don't understand it. This family however, is too "normal", too familiar. I don't understand how women who appear educated and modern, women who think for themselves and are free to work, divorce, dress as they wish, be angry or jealous, allow their children to be free to choose their own life styles.. how can these women accept a life under these conditions. I guess I like my polygamists foreign and rooted in a world and faith that I can never hope to understand. This family of modern polygamists is uncomfortable, because the women seem too much like me.. This isn't so much Mormon fundamentalist plural marriage as it is a smarmy guy who found some women who are willing to live in a 1960's style commune with him.
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 7:30 pm
Kellirippi...........thank you! somebody said exactly what I'm thinking..
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:40 am
Maybe that's what makes it so creepy! Thanks, Kellirippa! "1960's style commune"! LOL!!!
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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 2:53 pm
It's okay Kar, my posts are not always based on my personal belief system and the Bible that is why I put it the way that I did - "For those who believe in the Bible, monogamy was a late comer to the game of marriage." I don't believe that humans are monogamous, by nature, but I certainly believe that we can choose to be so as it suits our own evolutionary needs. I am seriously evolving into needing a wife to help around the house.
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Jenjackso
Member
02-10-2009
| Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 2:54 pm
Based on your input Kellirippa, don't you wonder what in the heck he offers to get them to do this? I keep feeling like they must be very insecure in some way because he is sooooo not a catch in my humblest opinion. I just keep seeing a little boy when I look at him and his behavior.
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Riviere
Member
09-09-2000
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 2:02 am
A commune?!? Seriously, that was 'free love' with little thought about bed partners, and we know KB is jealous of sharing his wives! }
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 9:24 am
If these women were raised in a polygamist society, were their mothers also wear what you want, have your own living space, work outside the home, feel free to leave at anytime women too? And what about their grandmothers? They seem to be altering the Fundamentalist faith to suit them. It seems to me that modernizing Fundamentalism is a bit of an oxymoron... or maybe it's an oxy-Mormon.. As far as what Kody has to offer, I think it's more a case of what he exudes.. I suspect he has a charisma that the camera doesn't capture and a control over the women that is edited out. This is definitely not Fundamentalist Mormonism and it may not be a commune, since the "free lovin" is only for Kody to partake in, maybe what this is, is in fact some kind of mini, non criminal cult style arrangement.. Meri has a real sadness and resignation about her, Janelle seems confused and Christine comes across like a brain washed blind follower (well, gosh darn, she better!). Robyn is the newly enticed member who's getting all the special attention and perks to get her hooked... I'm not saying he's getting anybody to drink the Kool-Aid here, but when you really look at the arrangement they have here under the guise of religion and look at the style of some of the more notorious cult leaders and compare... I'm just sayin'... I suppose it could also just be an alternative living arrangement that works for them. Share the expenses, share the work load, share the common living space, put the adultery out there in the open and this is how we live. We'll sign on the dotted line and you can showcase us on TLC with all the little people and big brides and multiples and tattooed ladies.. That's entertainment!
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Sam
Member
05-02-2004
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 10:37 am
oxy-Mormon... good one... lol
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 4:26 pm
also good..........."I'm not saying he's getting anybody to drink the Kool-Aid her,"
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Redpen
Member
07-24-2003
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 5:08 pm
Just read today that TLC signed them up for another season.The new season starts in March. They also have a one-hour special on TLC this Sunday night. Ratings must be good!
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Friday, October 29, 2010 - 8:25 pm
<100> Kody is in sales & marketing...........now he's selling & marketing his life style! I'll be watching! tee hee 
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Lardbrick
Member
01-16-2006
| Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 5:21 am
Also heard that there will be a second season on the TMZ website but they may or may not address the legal issues still pending on the show. It is a mystery what Kody has that attracts these women. Or maybe the women aren't really that bright?
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