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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 4:40 pm
It's a time consuming event when Passover comes it can take more than a day to get the house set up properly for a Kosher Passover. It's a lot of work. I would have to take a good look once crab and lobster are chopped up and put in a container. I use separate pots and pans for when my son the vegetarian eats at my house. Some people think I'm nuts to accommodate him but I don't mind.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 4:55 pm
LOL Lil! People don't realize... us vegetarians really DO appreciate it if you don't grill our veggies on the same grill where you stuck a big old burger or steak. My dad always offers me something, like a slice of pizza with sausage on it. And he says, you can just pick it off. Um, yeah, no, sorry daddy! I haven't cooked lobster or crab lately (for guests) but crab is a bit more stringy. Side by side you'd be able to tell a difference. But if you weren't paying attention, I'd think it'd be easy to grab one container of crab and not paying much attention, mistake it for lobster. It is all "white meat" after all! 
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 5:04 pm
OK, this has been bugging me for ages... it takes much longer than 5 minutes to make risotto. So that means that there's a prep step somewhere so that the lobster risotto can be sent out quickly as an appetizer. Those of you who work in the food industry, what the heck is the prep step? Do you pre-cook the risotto rice to a point, and then finish the cooking with the last ladle or two of liquid? OK, I just googled it and the first thing I found was this: Gordon Ramsey's quick method of preparing risotto. Has anyone ever done it before? I make a ton of risotto in the winter, and it really is best eaten immediately. If there's a way to pre-prep it and finish it off the day I want it, I'm all over it.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 5:27 pm
Costa - I will check w/m two chef buddies about the risotto question. Crab and lobster don't look/feel at all the same density-wise to me. I used to baby-sit - 50 years or so ago - for a family that kept Kosher, and I was scrupulous about being observant and respectful in their kitchen.
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 5:47 pm
BTW, to be clear, when I said "you didn't dare put a spoon from milk on meat" I meant on the COUNTERS!!! It's unimaginable to think of putting it on the actual food. You just had to be careful not to put one down on the wrong counter (I can only recall one time that happened when I was a child, and I'm proud to say I didn't do it lol!). I'm sure they appreciated that TN...and sure it wasn't easy and took a lot of effort at first. LOL I mean I knew it since birth (I spent almost as much time at my Grandmother's house as I did at my own...they were in walking distance) and it never was quite 2nd nature. Maybe it's because my Mom didn't keep kosher (but she also didn't cook the forbidden foods at home, unless you count bringing in Chinese takeout lolol). LOL glad I told that story...I had totally forgotten that my Aunt who lived with my Grandmother would insist on bringing in Chinese and after much arguments they agreed she could bring it in the house, but never in the kitchen, and only eat on paper plates and plastic silver to be thrown out IMMEDIATELY lolol. Even then my Grandmother would walk FAR away not too pleased and wouldn't take a bite of anything...ever lol. Thanks for the forgotton memory (though it's one of the few times I recall my Grandmother that unhappy about anything lol). I wonder if Gordan Ramsay didn't fire whatever her name is that messed up with the Lobster because of her answer and his fear it would appear anti-semitic instead of just firing a bad chef?!! Based on Chef Ramsays other recipes, his many Michelin stars and his rep as actually being an amazing Chef, I bookmarked the risotto and plan to try it. Sounds like it has great potential for a dinner party (when I wouldn't usually bother with a dish I have to baby like a risotto). No fava beans though in mine YUK! Maybe some asparagus and pancetta though 
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 6:06 pm
Costa, I've blanched the risotto following Ramsay's recipe (saw it on The F Word) and it was good. It wasn't probably as good as standing in front of a stove stirring and stirring and stirring, but it works. I have friends who are strictly Kosher, but even they don't do separate dish soaps. LOL. I did get in trouble once for loading the diswasher without segregating the dairy from the meat silverware, though...! I said, ya know, I think it's OK. The Talmud doesn't say anything about the dishwasher making something treif! Funny story....or maybe not so funny. I went to the Kosher market with my friend Michal last year where they had Kosher everything, including Kosher romaine lettuce. I asked why, and Michal said it's because a few years before, a bunch of Rabbis decided that romaine lettuce sometimes gets bugs in it, bugs are forbidden, and therefore romaine has to be raised according to Kosher standards, which means it has fine netting over it the whole time to keep out bugs (no, it doesn't matter that you can wash the lettuce: they have been there, so that's that). Michal said she thinks it's crazy, but the very very strict folks (she's only strict) adhere to it. I brought this up to her cousin Avraham, who had just escaped from a yeshiva in Brooklyn (he literally escaped: he is from a long line of Rabbis and is Hasidic, so he was expected to become a rabbi like his father, grandfather, etc--ultimately he ran away because he wanted to be able to read secular material without hiding it, which was something of a problem because I was forced to listen to him reciting poetry FROM MEMORY for hours on end. And I'm talking about Milton and Keats and Wallace Stevens here, not Sylvia Plath, and he did it with the absolutely flat affect of someone who had memorized something but lacked an emotional connection to it). Anyhow, I told Avraham about the romaine lettuce and how silly it was and that Michal agreed with me. And Avraham said to me, 'well, Michal is stupid then. I mean, if she eats bacon or pork, she's only breaking one law. If she eats romaine that's not kosher, she's breaking SIX laws. You tell me which is worse.' Avraham now lives in Berkeley and smokes lots of weed. Sorry for being such a chatty Cathy.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 6:15 pm
LOL Tish!!! Too funny!! And thanks for the info on the risotto. I wondered if it wouldn't be quite as creamy, and I really don't mind making it. Heck, I'm such a good rice snob that I'll make my own paella for holiday dinners (paella is all about the rice, folks!). But sometimes it'd be nice to be able to make up a larger batch that'll last longer. Risotto has become comfort food to me. I often have a problem ordering it out in restaurants, as it's rare that a chef will use vegetable stock when making the risotto. So I make it at home, mostly in the winter, with lots of really great local veggies (including butternut squash and asparagus).
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 7:27 pm
Thanks, Lurk! I knew I was leaving a bunch out! And Costa.. I used to be a taste tester for a vegetarian co-worker.. I can remember at chinese and Vietnamese restaurants, she'd have taste each dish that came around and if I could detect any meat flavor, she'd skip that one.. also at some restaurants where they'd proudly offer "vegetable soup" with a meat stock in the broth.. Remember in BB7, we learned from Kayser that Kosher and Halal meats were the same, so that if he didn't have a source of the halal muslim meat he could have eaten kosher meat. I know we do have sources of Halal meats here in OC, in Anaheim, in the "Little Gaza" area. Hey this thread is better than the show! Hmm had to look up lobsters and crabs and it seems that a true crab with claws has TEN legs counting the claws and this is also true of the lobster. Decapods. Interesting and I'm betting Chef Ramsay would say 8 for crab. LOL and I could have learned that from Costa! I sure missed that (or forgot it since) in several biology classes. LOL about dishwasher not being covered by the Talmud!! Wonder if there is kosher weed?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 7:32 pm
Hmmm.. well this site says oh no they are not equal even if people do accept them as equal. http://www.ehalal.org/kosher.html
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 7:49 pm
Very interesting article Sea. There is one mistake. Gelatin is not Kosher if they use a non Kosher animal source. I only know this because I really wanted Jello as a kid and could never have all the great flavors (green/orange/yellow) that my friends had because the Kosher brand only came in red. I was quite disappointed when I finally had real Jello and discovered that all the flavors pretty much taste the same.
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 8:27 pm
LOL I caught another mistake. I know for certain there is Kosher duck, and I'm pretty darn sure you can get Kosher goose. They are wrong about that. And LOL this has been more interesting than the show! And Mama, that reminded me of when they came out with Kosher Imitation Bacon Bits. My Grandmother had actually been dying to try it because we all RAVED about how awesome bacon was. I'll never forget her eagerly tasting them and spitting it right out. In fairness those imitation ones never were very good lolol. And I guess it was an entirely different taste with nothing to compare it to. BTW reading that article about the differences drove me NUTZ. Oh yeah it's so different over what name they pray to when they both kill the animal in the exact same way etc etc. If only people would focus on the similarities in ALL religions rather than seeing the differences. Sigh. Maybe we should get a reality show based on that. It would be far more interesting than most of this drek IMHO. (I'm sure I'd still tune in to this and other afore mentioned drek however lol).
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 10:08 pm
If only people would focus on the similarities in ALL religions rather than seeing the differences. So true. The first time I attended a Catholic Mass I was amazed at how many things were familiar to me. The more I read about all religion, the more alike they seem. If we removed the buildings and some of the leaders, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 6:02 am
Sea, Thai food, too. I'll ask if something is vegetarian, they say yes, and as soon as I taste I know they are wrong. I'll ask if there is fish sauce in it. Oh, yes, sorry! They'll take it back and remake it without the fish sauce. Sigh... And funny that the veg knows how many legs a lobster and crab have! I'd bet Ramsey thought they were different! ;)
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:56 pm
Yes indeed. Thai food too. And of course Vietnamese food is often loaded with fish sauce, or it is on the table to be used liberally.
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 1:22 pm
this thread took off! I know I try and have a Seder Meal ever year - sometimes I'm asked to do it at church instead of our Maudy Thursday service. And it is embarrassing when they bring a dish that isnt even close to being Kosher.... I will admit I find it harder than it sounds! DS girlfriend is Jewish and I always am grateful she isnt strict Kosher, and she forgives my lapses by saying she isnt Kosher! I also know friends that keep strict Kosher Kitchens - including 2 stoves, 2 refrigerators... etc.
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 2:54 pm
LOL Reader, impressive efforts especially since Passover gives you an entirely new set of "though shalt not eats" LOLOL! Not only do you have have to stick to what is ok usually, but you have to worry what is not ok for Passover or "peschadicha." OY!! lol Hopefully they don't care if it's not "Kosher for Passover" which raises an entirely additional HELL of getting regular products that are made specifically for the holiday under slightly different rules or ingredients. I spent the majority of my life demanding/begging/adoring being at Gram's house. But the couple of weeks leading up to Passover I wanted to be anywhere but. Between the cleaning, shopping, cleaning, changing of pots, pans, dishes etc, cleaning, and did I mention cleaning? I may have just figured out why I hate to clean so much lolol. There were 2 closet shelves that only stored food 1 week out of the year. But that didn't help slow down the endless cleaning of EVERYTHING in the kitchen. I swear I'm nearly shaking at the memory. Bless my Mom. We did keep Passover, but her approach was to just close the cabinets, put the food on counters or in storage bags and that was it. Seemed fine to me. One of the biggest fights we had, that literally lasted YEARS was when we went out to a diner (ALL NY diners have matzo during Passover) and I ordered bacon with I think I had eggs. My Mom INSISTED I broke Passover. I however insisted I didn't, since we ate bacon typically BUT I didn't eat anything that wasn't Peasadicha otherwise. No leavened bread. No legumes, etc. Every year after that we would debate it lolol. FYI I STILL think I was right! I didn't break Passover, I just didn't stick to a Kosher diet!!!! Costa, instead of asking if it's vegetarian have you tried asking, "is this dish made with fish sauce, beef stock, etc?" And if they aren't certain asking them to ask the kitchen. I say that because that's what a dear veggie friend does, and she swears it made all the difference in the HOW she asked when ordering. Maybe borrow her approach. She says she hardly ever had any problems long as she remembers to ask that way (I was with her one time when she forgot and frantically called the waitress back, and sure enough she had to change her order). Then she explained her method to me. Made great sense as it makes them think about all elements not just answer because a dish doesn't have a chicken on top lol
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:02 pm
I don't make a big deal of it. I'll ask if an item is vegetarian. When they say yes, I may then ask if they use vegetable stock. Often, the waiter says he'll have to go back and ask. But there have been times when they've come back and said yes it's vegetarian, and I'll taste it, and um, yeah, nope it's not, and I'll go back and check with the kitchen. I don't make a big deal of it, but will ask if it's vegetarian, and then ask additional questions. The thing is, I'm not gonna reel off a list of ingredients ("does it have chicken broth, beef broth, fish broth?"). I'll ask and if they say it's vegetarian and I get it and I know it's not, and send it back, and they are always very apologetic. I just usually forget about the damn fish sauce in Thai food! (I guess that's why I'm so fond of Indian food... it's almost always all veg!)
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:39 pm
I was soooo shocked when I went away to college and there was no matzo in the cafeteria during Passover. I am southern - for those of you who don't know or haven't guessed - and I grew up with bread choices in the school cafeterias during Passover being corn muffins or matso. Love matso w/cream cheese and guava jelly and corn muffins dripping w/butter!
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Costacat
Member
07-15-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:51 pm
Mmm! Tn, you'd LOOOOOVE my homemade guava jam! Fresh fruit straight from the farmer's market into my jam jars. Absolutely delish! And yeah, I grew up with cream cheese and jam (or peanut butter) on matzo. I'll still occasionally buy a box when it's around Passover time and I see the boxes on display at the store. (Too bad the La Panzanella Croccantini crackers I love are better for me than matzo!)
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Puzzled
Member
08-27-2001
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 4:27 pm
One of my friends has a kitchen, with its own pots pans and dishes, in the basement that she only uses for Passover. Lucky lady.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 4:30 pm
what a fascinating thread! I have zero knowledge as to Jewish kosher tradition. the christian religions i know of That DO practice strict food rules are based solely on the Old testament. I would assume that kosher law is equally ancient. In the OLd testament most of the food rules was for safety and health. Considering what we now know about parasites and disease transmission, it made Tons of sense prior to Fridges and adequate cooking techniques. I do know that Kosher Kill involves adequate bleeding. We dont have any access to kosher meat around here and from the meat swimming in blood at the grocery store, regular meat isnt killed properly nor bled properly. I was raised on a farm, i'm aware of how time consuming proper butchering is. ANYWAYS, as per Hells Kitchen, i'm thinking Fran wont last more than two more episodes. She seems to be unsure about basics. LOL at the story about the Kosher Lettuce. I think that it might be taking things a bit too far. I sometimes wonder if these rules are about control, Not health. After all, this isnt 800 BC, its 2010 AD- mind you, Crab lobsters are scavengers which can be very contaminated depending on where they are from. Also, in ancient days, they may have had more chance of eating dead people. i wont bother going into the morbid details.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 7:36 pm
ROFLE, Sun!! You just know some minds went RIGHT to the morbid details! Oooh.. just seeing a promo for Master Chef with Gordon Ramsay, starting in July!
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Konamouse
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2010 - 9:07 pm
American cheese sandwich on matzo. Matzo soaked in water then mixed with egg and "fried" as Passover French Toast with syrup. My grandmother calling the ham a "roast". LOL!

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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2010 - 9:44 pm
Ok, what's Master Chef? Is there a TV show I'm missing?? :::::GASP::::: And just because this thread has been such fun, and Kona made me hungry/inspired me/mentioned soaking matzo which is vital to MANY recipes, I'll share 2 family matzo inventions, both of which are delicious year round, esp #2. 1) Fried Matzo Break up matzo into large chucks. Place in metal bowl and generously salt. Pour very hot water over it and let soak a few minutes. (I toss in dehydrated onions at this point). Dang, I can't recall if my Mom or Gram invented this. Think it was Gram when she didn't want to mess with full fledged matzo brie, but not positive. Anyway whoever did used onion nyfat or onion schmaltz (you fry onions in oil over low heat for a long time, strain, refrigerate and use to cook. OH soo good. Orig made w/chicken fat, but veggie oil got great results.). I just toss in the dried onion and go with Mazola LOLOL. Heat oil, squeeze out as much water as possible, toss matzo in pan, jump back to avoid severe burns from oil splatter, let crisp, turn, let other side crisp. Eat and enjoy. VERY yummy. Now, for one of my secret recipes that I know for sure my Mom invented (I was there lol). It is magical and you would never believe it based on the ingredients. I make this year round. 2) Farfel Omelet For those that don't know, Matzo Farfel is sold in boxes and it's matzo broken down into little pieces. It's hard to find when it's not Passover so I load up and seal them, but hard core Kosher markets sometimes have it. Anyway, you start the same basic way. Dump a couple handfuls of Farfel in a metal bowl. Again salt very generously (matzo is salt free), and toss a big handful of dehydrated onions in and cover with very hot water. While this softens, in another bowl mix 2 or 3 eggs with a splash of milk. Set aside briefly. Strain as much water as you can out of the farfel, then squeeze out the rest with your hands. At some point before this heat an omelette sized frying pan with oil. Dump the farfel into the egg mixture stirring rapidly because the farfel is hot and you don't want to cook in the bowl. Then quickly dump in the pre-heated pan. Lower heat to medium and put a lid on it. After about 5 or so min, or whenever the sides are solid and the top is starting to cook, flip it (I highly recommend using a plate for this). Return cover, cook a few more minutes until both sides are golden and eggs are fully cooked. Now, here's the magic part. The farfel fluffs up and adds just a bit of unique texture to the omelette. It's unlike anything I've ever had, but it's by far the most delicious, fluffy omelette I've ever tasted. My friends have gone INSANE over it, and no one ever believes what the secret is! (One Jewish friend wouldn't believe it until she watched me make it lolol). So there you go my TVCH friends. Two online family matzo secrets. All that's left of the amazing Passover family inventions are my Grandmother's Onion Muffins that taste too good to be OK for Passover. DAMN I'm hungry now!! Think I'll make a Farfel Omelette tomorrow...seriously!!
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Friday, June 04, 2010 - 9:53 pm
PS I should say that's all that's left of the family secret Passover recipes that I know for sure how to make! My Mom used to make a variety of Kugel's she invented that were soooo good (both sweet and non). Sadly she never wrote them down and I never paid enough attention to what she was doing. I kinda have an idea about the potato one, but no clue how she did any of the sweet ones. Thankfully I made her teach me AND write the recipe for her year round sweet Noodle Kugel, as it's the best I've ever had. It's atypical in that there is no cheese and tastes more like a custard inside. Mine ALMOST tastes as good as hers, but not quite lol.
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