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Archive through May 04, 2009

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C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Gidget I think in a world of egos where they both dwelt she probably thought the offer to have her own show was her launching pad. Maybe she thought she had ridden his coattails long enough. We'll never know for sure.

Jgalt
Member

02-17-2009

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:22 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jgalt a private message Print Post    
Yes C1mag, I remember Joan as being really big. I also remember, when younger, Joan sitting in all the time for Carson. And yes Gidget, I think she made a huge mistake making an enemy of Johnny Carson. I think she thought that was her only chance to have a show of her own, but it backfired on her. She had trouble getting guests because they were afraid of getting black listed by Carson. There was a lot of dirty business going on to make sure Joan didn't succeed.

Johnny Carson held a lot of power in Hollywood, and Joan crossing him put her down for many years.

And Mamabatsy, I'd LOVE to go out with Joan to dinner and listen to all the stories she has to tell, while going out with Annie may turn into a monologue, or soliloquy ( and I sure don't mean I'd be doing the talking!)

Look, I'm sure Joan can be a real Bi---, she's a tough broad, been everywhere, and had to fight in a man's world for most of her life. She's also been a celebrity for most of her life, so I'm sure she displays some diva behavior (maybe alot), but I can't help liking her.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
I still have always thought of her as a superstar. She traveled outside the U.S. and was received warmly by many. Her acid routine of "can we talk" was her staple and well known. She made her mark so I think she did peak pretty high. Thats just my take on it.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
Thank you for making my point about marrying the producer and suddenly being on every show in the 60's.


Her comedy was all about her being an old maid. Getting married didn't help her at all. She married him in the late 60s but she was a superstar long before that.

Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tishala a private message Print Post    
if you think marrying a producer can get you on every show, I can introduce you to lots of talented people in Hollywood who have producer spouses to can contradict that notion. It takes a lot of hard work and a lot of luck to make it as big as Ms Rivers was.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
I also could go out to lunch with her and enjoy her for the most part. Her daughter not so sure. I'd feel like I was talking to a puppet with that whole frozen upper face thing but I'd get around that :-) Annie and I could talk motherhood I'm sure.

Gidget
Member

07-28-2002

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:29 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gidget a private message Print Post    
I repeat she was never a superstar. A super self promoter for sure. But superstar not. And her rise in important visibility coincided with her marriage. The dates are irrefutable.

I don't choose to talk about who I personally know and don't know as it is of no bearing to my opinions on this board. And I don't want to be accused of name dropping like Annie. Hollywood is not such a magical mystery.


Tishala
Member

08-01-2000

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Tishala a private message Print Post    
Well, I think that it does have a bearing on assertions that Ms Rivers got on every show because her husband was a producer. There are lots of talented, more attractive, intelligent people married to producers in Hollywood who never make it and can't get on shows--people married to much bigger producers than Edgar Rosenberg was in the late 60s. They may not have what it takes; they may not work hard enough; they may not be lucky enough. But marrying a producer doesn't guarantee anything except that you will meet lots other producers, and publicists, and writers, and talent, and PAs.

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Curlyq a private message Print Post    
I give Joan props as a genuine celebrity, whether likeable or not. Lots of celebrities are people I wouldn't want to be friends with. In any event, it doesn't really matter who's the bigger star because this show is all about the money and nothing else. Piers is the proof of that. It's not a popularity contest. It's supposed to be about who is the best at business, although it has degraded into being about who has the richest friends.

The previews showed ultra-quick shots of the two teams:
Spoiler
Click below to view spoiler
I can't believe Rodman was brought back, and that he agreed to come back. That may give Annie some more firepower as far as connections go, even if he's useless in other ways. Clint was sitting on Joan's side, which may be a disadvantage for her. I'll bet she'll wish she had Jesse instead. She had Melissa and Hershel as well. If this task is about fundraising, which it probably is, Annie has the big advantage with Brande and Dennis on her team.
If Trump doesn't ultimately choose Annie, I'll be very surprised. She seems to be just the kind of person he enjoys.

It was funny when Trump said Annie came across as a lamb in the beginning. From the first day the women knew Annie was no lamb. She just played it that way in the boardroom and Trump fell for it.

It's to Annie's credit that she went all out in raising money for other people's charities as well as her own. It's to Joan's credit that even though she can't stand Annie she still acknowledged that she did a good job on that jingle. That being said, it's a shame that they have both now made this contest so personal. Joan took it personally in the course of the game, and while Annie has pretended to let it roll off her back that's clearly not the case. To this day Annie is still complaining about Joan in her blog, and despite what she says about making personal remarks I did hear her compare Joan to cancer. I'm not sure that's any nicer than comparing someone to Hitler. Both are responsible for killing a lot of innocent people.

Did it seem to the rest of you that Trump based his firing of Jesse on the idea that Jesse wouldn't deliver Sandra Bullock for the finale? That's how it came across to me. It was like they just wanted him there because of who his wife is, and if he wasn't going to bring her on the show there was no point in keeping him.

Gidget
Member

07-28-2002

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:37 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Gidget a private message Print Post    
I don't recall using the word guarantee

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
I repeat she was never a superstar

This is only your opinion, so repeat it every post if you wish, it won't change the minds of many of us here. Many of us consider Joan Rivers a superstar. In her heyday, superstars weren't like the superstars of today. She was HUGE in Vegas and was on every television variety show, her own show specials, had record albums, and toured. Yes, she certainly was a superstar.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
AND, what did Edgar ever produce before he met Joan? She gave him his career. He did nothing to further hers. Other than her show, what did he produce? A few plays in Great Britain.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
When I was little, we had about 5 TV channels. When Joan Rivers was on some show, it was a real treat to watch her. omg, a female stand-up comedienne! She was a pioneer and VERY famous and popular back in the day. So now's she's 75 years old...it doesn't discount what she was. She was the Roseanne Barr of her day. When Roseane came on in the 80's, we watched her every time she was on a show, too.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 9:57 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
For me I can't deny what I believe is super star status to a person because I may not personally care for their comments or character. In her chosen field she is a legend and along with that title comes superstar. Without her and her humor people like Roseanne and even Rosie O would have never made it through the door. I'm not sure her husband back then was her golden ticket through the door. He may have been a great support system but ultimately it was joan up there all alone on that stage making a solid name for herslef and creating her hook line, Can we talk the only way she knew how. Along the way she became a successful spoken word recording artist, writer, producer and broadway success. She's been smart enough to include other fiancial ventures as well. I can't imagine dealing with the death of a spouse let alone one that takes his own life. For coming back from that trauma alone I admire her strengths and endurance. So she's ok with me and I'm willing to feed her ego and call her a superstar in her own right. I think I get her comments on this show. She's seen it all in life and could see through the B.S. many were slopping and she got sick of it at times. I thought she made an excellent point when Brande suggested she was there for her charity. Joan was right in that if she was just there for her charity she didn't need the show. She had the same connections to raise the money without the cameras so please cut the lies. She was also their to promote herself. They all saw that as a benefit as well.

Annie I never heard of her until this show and as I said playing cards for a living trying to con another person and playing with a lot of someone elses money I am just not feeling the need to stand and rave about that. I would have a conversation with her until she starts name dropping then I'd be bored. I'm not sure I'd trust her as a friend given what she does in life. I'd wonder if she was fibbing to me or thinks I'm just another sucker who buys every thing she says. Our common ground would be motherhood and thats about it.

Curly don't you think that Trumps reasons for firing a few of them have been ridiculous? I feel he has made a mockery out of his own concept and it's not just about ratings but it's ok because the benefactor is the charities.

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 10:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Curlyq a private message Print Post    
Yes, I do feel several of the firings this season were ridiculous. It takes away from the integrity of the show when a big personality is prized above actually doing the job. Tionne's firing was probably the worst. She had just come off a win and everyone said she was great. Then she was fired for having the guts and the compassion to agree to come into the boardroom to support her PM.

The way I see it, Annie is a shrewd player and if this is seen as a game then she's doing a good job strategically. If you were to view it as a job interview then I wouldn't hire her in a million years for fear that my company's morale would go down into the Earth's core. But since this is more a game than a job interview I'm guessing Annie will be the one who gets rewarded with the win.

P.S. This story about Carson and Joan is one I was unfamiliar with before. IMO it makes Carson look terrible. What kind of friend would begrudge you a chance at your own show, and then sabotage your career and snub you until his dying day over it? So sad.

Juju2bigdog
Member

10-27-2000

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:04 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Juju2bigdog a private message Print Post    
My opinions as an old person who is not too hip about who's who in current stardom:

Superstars on this show: Joan Rivers

Genuine Celebrities:
Herschel Walker
Clint Black
Dennis Rodman

Had never heard of the others - well, maybe heard their names, but could not have picked their correct occupation out of a multiple choice list.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:09 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
Ok I just saw the show. This one was fun. Annie cracks me up. Slathers Joan with praise and when Joan doesn't embrace the praise Annies comments suddenly change to one filled full of hatred. Which is the real Annie? They one who swears Joans name calling doesn't bother her or the one that won't stop mentioning she's been called a Nazi? Double talking con artists are intriguing. LOL This is going to be fun.

More then likely if they go based on Donations Annie will win but it's very easy to call upon people who throw large sums of money all over the place "gambling" it will get them what they want. For Joan she will be asking many who don't all just throw their money around so a friend can win a TV reality show. Annie seems to fit the mold of this type of game winner. I think she's full of it from the second she opens her mouth and for some reason I don't think she's all that good at it. I mean obviously she knew to say she wanted to go up against Joan because she knew they were going to pick Joan because her reasons for saying Joan didn't add up given Jesse was the one who brought in the least amount and she stumbled on that lie when it was pointed out. Next as a gamer she has to be thinking has Joan been holding back herself? I personally think Annie would have given anything to go up against the other two. Poor Brande really was a sucker Annie used to pump her up and help her along the way giving her so much control and cheering her along. I loved Joans honesty in saying Brande was definitely a coattail rider. I loved this episode. I'm trying to decide in a world of name calling would I want to be called Hitler or a Cancer? Both are too personal for just a game but it's what happens. I guess I'm team Joan realizing Annie will probably win.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
I guess I'm team Joan realizing Annie will probably win.

Yes, that's my feeling too. I wonder if anyone will know who Annie is when she is 76.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
I was disgusted with the last Board Room meeting tonight, as well as Piers' interviews with the F4 contestants. DT picking Annie and Joan is for nothing but ratings.

I was truly hoping to see Annie/Brandie in the F2 and see how it came out. Trump never lets Annie finish a sentence. I was curious about what she meant about having empathy for Joan not being able to get charity money from her friends. However, Trump is just over the top obvious the real charity on this show is HIM and HIM alone. These people are making money for him; much more than the charities are getting.

Therefore, I'd like to watch a show where 2 people can work to win without all the vitriol and whining.

I still can't figure out where Jessie is coming from. I loved Brandie tonight. She and Annie had fun and gave it their best. It payed off for them..sort of. Brandie still got fired noy much later. I don't understand why they pick on her so much for not being bright. She's done great on all her tasks.

Curlyq
Member

07-10-2002

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 12:08 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Curlyq a private message Print Post    
I think Jesse came into this unaware of how much emphasis is placed on calling people for money.

Brande has had her moments. Srap? LOL!

My suspicion about Annie wanting to go against Joan was that she knew some of the other celebrities would be brought back for the final task, and she wanted to be able to have Brande on her side. That way she'd have at least one person willing to work hard for her, plus someone who has good contacts. I also suspect on some level she wants the chance to beat the woman who has been insulting her. Just look at how happy she was when she beat Clint at a song-writing contest.

The Piers interviews were disappointing, since in the past Trump has had more than one person conducting interviews so he could get more than one opinion on each player. He should have let his kids also interview, since they've been watching these people work and have a better idea of what their real skills are. Ivanka seems to be the most insightful of anyone when it comes to analyzing these contestants.

C1mag
Member

07-12-2005

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 12:11 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send C1mag a private message Print Post    
I never saw Brande as a "leader" I saw her as a great tool to manipulate and if you were a success with her she could claim as the P.M she was a success but if you lost the task she would be an easy target to get rid of. She brought big donors to the table and she was sweet. I'm puzzled this always comes down to who can bring in the most donors. Maybe by Trumps hint tonight that won't be the only criteria. Maybe they think she's stupid because she allowed the pro con artist to use her in a way where she would stand up and cheer her on with praise not realizing you are suppose to make yourself look good not the one you are playing against. I think if it was a donations race Annie would have eaten her alive and I'm not sure without some major help Brande would know how to really put together a complete event. Joan was the better choice to go against Annie. Jessie was interesting. I think he would have done well in a final two situation and remained a bit more calmer then Annies constant babbling that can be annoying.

Cricket I so agree it would be interesting to see this minus the vitriol but doubt it would work seeing as how drama is a ratings catch.

From a business point of view I'd hire Joan based on experience and track record. Annie I'd be afraid would screw me over LOL and then play dumb about it. Sweet to my face but jamming the knife in my back.

ETA Piers interviewing to me was useless. His only criteria he feels is who can bring in the most donations and as Trump later said it may not be about that. Piers was just for added drama. I think he would have absolutely hated Annie if he had to play this game against her.

Jesse and not wanting to use Sandra I think was interesting. I don't think my husband would want to use my celebrity if I had one and he was playing a game. It's maybe a man thing. Now if my man was a celebrity I'd be texting and calling every second saying you get here now and start writing out the checks or I am LOL

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 3:41 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
I think Jesse was put on the show so Trump could bag an appearance by Sandra on his show and so far, Trump has been disappointed.. after all this is more about his ego than anything elseo.

======

What is with Donald Jr's hair? Strange indeed and not even clean looking. And the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, the way his conversation with Brande went about the possibility of her wearing a mermaid costume and the smaller the better.

======

Ivanka is a superstar.. intelligent, inciteful, has her own mind, not daddy's..

The show is a trainwreck, both seasons have been.

Txhazeleyes
Member

02-12-2008

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 4:27 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Txhazeleyes a private message Print Post    
I can't believe there's an argument as to whether Joan Rivers is/was a celebrity and/or a superstar. As they say, "It is what it is."

Pamy
Member

01-02-2002

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 5:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
I thought Johnny dumped her BEFORE she got her own show. I remember hearing her on an interview and she was so sad that Johnny didnt even call her when Edgar killed himself. I got the feeling she and John were very close friends and she was very hurt by him.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Monday, May 04, 2009 - 5:35 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Got this from Wiki:
Joan Rivers became the "permanent" guest host from September 1983 until 1986, when she was fired for accepting a competing show on Fox without consulting Carson.

I wouldn't generally use Wiki as a source, but this seems right to the best of my recollection. To be named his first "permanent guest host" tells me she was a pretty darned important and popular comedienne! I do remember being really happy about that because I thought she was so funny. Johnny Carson was the "make you or break you" guy in Hollywood, so I guess when he wasn't happy with someone, he could basically ruin them. Joan was resilient though, and here she is, still going at 75 years old.