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Archive through November 25, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Archives for 2009 - 3: Jon & Kate ARCHIVES: Archive through November 25, 2009 users admin

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Lilfair
Member

07-09-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 1:54 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lilfair a private message Print Post    
Yes, the twins need to accept that their family is no longer the way it was and they need to repspect that-period. Behave, is that too much to ask?

Onlyhuman
Member

08-04-2001

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 1:56 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Onlyhuman a private message Print Post    
Lilfair, I'm not sure if you are attempting to be sarcastic but as much as I think kids need to be disciplined, the idea that kids need to "shut their bratty mouths" because otherwise their father will withhold time and attention, especially if he starts a new family, is...offputting, to say the least.

I don't think parents can be perfect. There will be times when you react rather than respond. We all do it, we're only human. I felt that Jon was wrong in escalating the conflict as quickly and abruptly as he did, and especially wrong with his "your poster is going in the trash" which is just mean and vindictive. He is going to have to learn to deal with very effective "divide and conquer" manipulation in a less reactive manner and if he does, the kids are going to have to learn that it doesn't work. But they have to learn not to behave that way because it doesn't get them what they want, not out of fear that daddy will go away and make new babies that he loves more because they are nicer to him.

Hermione69
Member

07-24-2002

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hermione69 a private message Print Post    
These are children. Their family is splitting up. A certain amount of acting out is going to come with the territory. Good parents learn to handle it.

Why are they supposed to act more grownup than their father? Why is spending time with their father supposed to be a good behavior reward?

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
I'm kind of astounded at that also. Those kids have not been *taught* well, that's why they behave the way they do. That's on their *parents* not on them. And Jon's nasty behavior didn't teach them one thing different. He didn't behave any better than they did, he just has the power to send them off.

As for the little kids, I don't know if I"m senile or what, but MOST of them weren't even AT the table. They were riding their bikes!!

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:17 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
Ha ha, here's what Michael Lohan is saying on Twitter about the recordings with Jon Gosselin:

TheMichaelLohan
RADARONLINE POSTED THOSE RECORDINGS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. I ENDED ALL CONTACT WITH THEM WEEKS AGO, MY LAWYERS ARE GETTING INVOLVED.
about 1 hour ago from iTweet
http://twitter.com/TheMichaelLohan

Brenda1966
Member

07-03-2002

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:20 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Brenda1966 a private message Print Post    
Yeah, the threat to throw the poster away was just bad parenting IMO. Obviously we don't know how long Jon had been putting up with the attitude and the bickering of the twins, but to just tell them they are "done" seemed severe. It looked to me like he was having a bad day and he has to realize those kids are in turmoil and will have bad days and he's the parent who has to rise above it. It's easier to just send them off than it is to provide some guidance and direction. He took the easy way.

Ahnicka
Member

08-08-2007

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:23 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ahnicka a private message Print Post    
Wow, wasn't it just the other day when Kate was being called evil and a bad parent for not giving Mady water at the precise moment she wanted it despite Mady's very similar inappropriate response that they like doing things with daddy better? Kate didn't even childishly respond to the bad behavior.

Now that the situation is completely flipped, Mady makes a very similar comment to Jon that was once said to Kate and so Jon throws away their artwork and says: "Good bye, I’m not kidding, I’m in charge; See ya,” (Very immature and childish! Thanks for the quote Huk). All of a sudden Jon is considered to be a stellar parent with "bratty disrespectful" twins, and Jon gets the benefit of the doubt that "Mady was manipulating her dad" and for us to "remember, this was taped at the height of all the fighting and before taping was stopped."

Oh and lets not forget, for good measure we have to blame Kate for everything, so again Jon has done no wrong and no fault lies with him because "Mady is a mini Kate" and he was under the evil "mini Kate" influence. Hmm, I just sometimes wonder where is this same benefit of the doubt reasoning for Kate, especially given the similar circumstances that she didn't react to, but Jon did?

Seriously? So it's now Kate's fault again that Jon threw out the poster and responded like a child because Jon was under the influence of evil "mini Kate"?

So basically no matter what Jon does that is wrong it will always be Kate's fault, is that the concensus? Jon murder's a person--It's Kate's Fault, News at 11! Jon does a hit and run, flees the scene--arrest Kate because she certainly made Jon do it! Jon does a DUI with the kids in the car--well you know it's Kate's fault right?!

My my my, WOW is all I can say!

Ahnicka
Member

08-08-2007

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:30 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ahnicka a private message Print Post    
Huk, but wouldn't Michael had to have given Radar Online the recording? Did Michael not get paid for it, is that the upset?

Rissa
Member

03-20-2006

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rissa a private message Print Post    
Isn`t Jon the one who raised these kids all by himself? Worked hard all day then came home to feed them, bathe them, play with them while Kate did nothing but sleep in and yell at the help? He was worked to the bone for years raising those kids because Kate was an evil, useless parent who never did anything right. Perhaps it is a good thing Kate is getting full custody if Jon did such a poor job raising those girls. If being raised by an angel didn`t work, maybe lucifer can do better.

Hukdonreality
Member

09-29-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Hukdonreality a private message Print Post    
I don't know what the deal is, Ahnicka. I just found it funny that something he recorded mysteriously leaked out...wow, what a coinkydink. And then he claims they were used without his permission.

Ahnicka
Member

08-08-2007

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 2:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ahnicka a private message Print Post    
LOL Rissa! Good one; too funny! It's the same type of thinking I was trying to illustrate in my post.

Thanks Huk.

Grooch
Member

06-16-2006

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 3:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grooch a private message Print Post    
In an ironic way, I find it funny that when Jon yelled at them to go inside, they obeyed immediately without a hissy fit.

Maybe they prefer spending time with the babysitter than him?

Glad the show is over and hopefully the kids can get a normal life as such as they can.

Keldogg
Member

08-12-2005

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 3:12 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Keldogg a private message Print Post    
I wonder if the reason Mr. Lohan is so upset is because he recorded those conversations without Jon's permission. That would be a criminal act in many states.

Would be a shame if he was prosecuted for it (SARCASM!)

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 3:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
From upthread: "And that things will never be the same and that acting out and having a big mouth will NOT get you more time with daddy...it'll get you LESS. If he gets Hailey preggers and starts a new family it'll be even harder for the kds to have face time with Dad so the twins better learn fast to shut their bratty mouths."

Wow. I strongly disagree with that statement. Those kids are young. They need to be taught to express their feeling in a polite respectful way sure, but to just keep their mouths shut, not rock the boat, not state their feelings because they might upset their father (or their mother) is NOT healthy. NOT at all. It is hard for them to learn a polite way to express their feelings when their father, in that same moment, is not modeling good behavior himself. It is Jon's responsibility to parent his kids, not their responsibility to never get upset if front of him.

Just because a kid says something that hurts a parent's feelings does not mean the kid was being disrespectful. Also, I think a parent has to expect that kids will say things on purpose at times to try to hurt their parents, especially when they are young and mad at their parents. I'm sure all those kids are angry at least to some extent at both of their parents. It is the job of the parents to anticipate this, deal with it appropriately and teach their kids how to express their feelings in a respectful considerate way. It takes a lot of time and practice on both sides-the kids and the parents. Kids should be able to honestly say to their parents what they are feeling and have it be safe to do so.

Again "And that things will never be the same and that acting out and having a big mouth will NOT get you more time with daddy...it'll get you LESS. If he gets Hailey preggers and starts a new family it'll be even harder for the kds to have face time with Dad so the twins better learn fast to shut their bratty mouths."

It just occurred to me that statement really makes Jon look really bad.

Re: child support/custody... The courts will rule based on what is in the best interest of the kids. They know it is not in the best interest of the kids to spend a lot of time traveling to the other parent's house, so, 50/50 physical custody is not always practical. Also, whoever has less physical custody will probably have to pay more child support.


From a couple of days ago: "I love Joel McHale and "The Soup"...he said that Jon's suit against TLC and media for making him look bad is like Hitler suing the History Channel. LOL" Tex, I was really LOL at that!

Rissa
Member

03-20-2006

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 3:44 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Rissa a private message Print Post    
Amen HM

Ophiliasgrandma
Member

09-04-2001

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 5:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ophiliasgrandma a private message Print Post    
As the product of a broken home I don't recall worrying about whatever was going on between my parents. All I worried about was 'me'. I was the most important person in my universe...just me, me, me. Isn't that pretty par for the course as far as most children are concerned?

Jgalt
Member

02-17-2009

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 6:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jgalt a private message Print Post    
It's very hard, if not impossible to expect 5 and 7/8 year olds to "get over" a divorce, and get on with it, in such a short period of time. For children to say " I have more fun with Mommy" or "I have more fun with Daddy", I believe, is a common, (if hurtful) thing children say to divorcing parents. It's up to the parents to be the adult in these situations, and understand the stress these children are under. Jon reacted in a horribly childish way reacting as he did. I believe his anger was not because the two girls were being nasty to each other and difficult, but was expressly due to the comment about "more fun with Mommy". I feel this is what set him off, and this was exactly the moment he should have been the grown-up, correct them for their bratty behavior, but ignore the "fun with Mommy" comment. God knows it's not easy, but he reacted in a very immature manner.

Beekindpleez
Member

07-18-2006

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 6:31 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beekindpleez a private message Print Post    
I've never met an eight year old that didn't have a little bit of brat in them.

It's all in the parents' ability to handle the situation correctly that tones that brat-part down or turns that brat-part up.

It was interesting to see the difference in how these two parents handled the brat-part. :-)



Hey, Huk...thanks for the great summary. I could hear/see it all in my head when I read that.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 6:33 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
it's not just common with families going through divorces, my teen is constantly telling me her daddy is the more fun parent...well, until he tells her no and then i am not so bad! LOL
kids try to play parents off each other on purpose and even unintentionally. it's up to us to be the grownup and react accordingly.

Countrydaze
Member

11-07-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 6:50 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Countrydaze a private message Print Post    
The one thing that keeps popping up in my mind regarding the situation with Cara and Maddie is that this whole thing was filmed by TLC, who is suing Jon and will not under any circumstances, in my mind at least, do anything to put Jon in a good light, so we do not know the whole story or exactly what transpired before he sent them into the house. It just might have been a lot more mouthy on the part of the girls than we saw. I honestly can not see Jon acting like he did just based on what TLC showed us...just sayin

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 6:51 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Well, frankly, sometimes one parent IS naturally more fun and playful. My DS is all about sports, and I"m not so athletically inclined. So yeah, he thinks I'm less fun than Dad who will play basketball, etc with him.

When you are a single parent, you have to work harder to expand who you are, to *find* ways to be fun. They may not be the same ways, but that's okay.

What I saw was a dour Jon, working on posters, so boring that most of the six went off to do something else; and not ooooing and aaahhhing over what his twins were doing. That would have made them more excited and more involved AND having fun.

In fact, the whole lemonade thing was all like that. Dour Jon making the kids go along. That's not gonna work for any child.

Reader234
Member

08-13-2000

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 7:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post    
which is why I'm glad they are no longer filming, and no longer being judged by what was "captured" on film "at that moment"

Happymom
Member

01-20-2003

Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:40 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Happymom a private message Print Post    
"It just might have been a lot more mouthy on the part of the girls than we saw."

Even if they were, it is still his responsibility to act like the grown up.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 12:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
He still acted like he was the 8 year old and was left in charge and feeling his power trip.. Think how HE would have reacted had the twins went and put on T Shirts that said

Lies
Lies
Lies
Lies

even though that is certainly what he was doing.

And all the talk of Mady.. I thought it was established earlier that it was CARA, his usual favorite, soul-mate kid who was the one mouthing off more??

And of course we saw the lemonade stand stunt in real time since it was clearly recorded by the paps.. Jon with his t shirt and Hailey, not there but elsewhere with her TLC Lies shirt..

Another thing that was a bit disturbing in that rant to Michael Lohan.. all about clean slates so that Jon said he refused to listen to Michael Lohan's past, didn't care about Hailey's past, etc. Now it certainly is good to draw your own conclusions, but the past IS an indication of future behavior all too often (Maybe that is why he mentioned the pedophiles and having his kids on TV so they could see them.. maybe he gave them a clean slate too) but as they say those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it and methinks had Jon listened to people warning him to stay away from Michael Lohan.. and kept his potty mouth shut, he'd be in less trouble than he's about to be with the lawsuits.

But in the spirit of clean slates.. maybe he will suddenly grow up and act his age?

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 8:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
maybe he will suddenly grow up and act his age?

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.