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Archive through November 21, 2009

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: Other Reality Shows ARCHIVES: Archives for 2009 - 3: Jon & Kate ARCHIVES: Archive through November 21, 2009 users admin

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Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
We don't have to agree at all, Karuuna. I just kept getting confused with all the 'smoke and mirrors' responses. It was like I couldn't get anyone to discuss the incident because it was part of Jon's lawsuit.

Well, I did talk about that at one point, but this is a busy thread. I commented on both, actually - nonissue where lawsuit was concerned; and no indictment of Kate as a parent either.

And really, we all pick up on what we pick up on, and discuss what's most interesting to us. It wasn't that interesting to me to discuss it as a parenting issue, because I didn't say it that way. But I'm floored that it's become a legal way, because it seems such a non-issue.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
Sabbatia stated:
Cricket, that was from Nov 5th. I think things have changed since then.

Yes, it seems they have according to today's tweets by Hailey, Sabbatia. I only posted that because it's a sample of how in any discussion, Hailey can pick a fight. She whines and goes round in circles. Her interviews on TV were the weirdest things I've ever seen. I don't think the hosts even knew what to make of her.

If, like Ahnicka says, this is another publicity stunt, Jon may indeed end up going to her house.

Great post, Countrydaze. You summed up why Jon is in part the way he is perfectly. He was always told what to do and now he's searching for others to tell him what to do, but sometimes has picked people who gave him bad advice. Also, you get what I was trying to say about the water.

She didn't ask for the water until after Maddy said how thirsty she was. In my opinion, that was just mean on her part.

Amen!

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:52 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Compulsive lying goes part and parcel with avoidant and passive-aggressive personalities. Jon avoids face to face confict both thru his lying and his passive-aggressive behavior (say yes to your face and then sabotage you behind your back).

I would be loathe to describe him with some kind of personality disorder, because it really could come from a wide variety of issues. But certainly his conflict avoidance is extremely obvious, and that's often associated with lots of lying.

Sabbatia
Member

08-15-2005

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sabbatia a private message Print Post    
if she bad mouths him, in time they will understand that what she is doing is just plain wrong.



I honestly haven't seen much of kate bad mouthing Jon. I even did a google search and most articles say she has done her best NOT to. She has admitted more than once that she was harsh with him, and has been trying to change. And most of the things you see and read have admitted we are seeing a kinder Kate.

CD, to quote you but change it up a bit
she needs to be cut a break. If she really wants to do better, lets give her a chance.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-31-2000

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 8:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
If and when Jon starts behaving better, then I won't be harsh on him. He's clearly made some very bad decisions, and IMO continues to make them. what bothers me most is how much some of what he is doing will hurt his children. Compared to delaying a sip of water, I think the things he has done have been far more damaging, thoughtless, selfish and mean. That's my opinion.

Countrydaze
Member

11-07-2003

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 8:02 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Countrydaze a private message Print Post    
As far as Kate bad mouthing Jon......I have seen on the shows how she has told the kids not to pay attention to their father that he is just mean. If she talks like that on camera, I am sure she does it off camera, and that was when they were together, so I can just imagine what she is saying now.

Sabbatia
Member

08-15-2005

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 8:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sabbatia a private message Print Post    
CD, that's the problem. You can just imagine what she's saying now but nobody really knows, do they?...She's saying she's trying to change. You may not have seen change, but I have. If she really wants to do better, why doesn't she deserve a chance too?

BTW, in giving Jon a chance, I will conceed that since he's been in Hawaii, he's done a pretty good job of being low key. He did that one interview, but at least there aren't drunken pics of him floating all over the internet with a young girl. That IS progress.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Friday, November 20, 2009 - 8:43 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
i have seen kate be unkind about jon and towards jon prior to the separation, but i can't recall any instance since. i agree with sabbatia
I honestly haven't seen much of kate bad mouthing Jon. I even did a google search and most articles say she has done her best NOT to. She has admitted more than once that she was harsh with him, and has been trying to change. And most of the things you see and read have admitted we are seeing a kinder Kate.
if anything good came out of the show is i think kate saw how she acted and is trying to change her ways. i have always maintained that jon was fine with their relationship until other people started the 'there is no way in the world i would allow my wife to talk to me that way chatter', and now he is lost. i think alot of his recent bad behavior is very much like a rebellious teen.

Beekindpleez
Member

07-18-2006

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 12:15 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beekindpleez a private message Print Post    
I can recall two times in recent, post- separation, times that Kate was unkind.

One was at the Ronald McDonald house (Love them!) when she announce that dinner was ready, "with love from Jon and Kate Plus Eight...minus Jon."

And the other was when they showed the dogs getting the special collars to keep them from straying and Kate made some sort of suggestion that someone else should have had a collar like that. "Ooohh. Did I say that?? I don't know where that came from."

But, in comparison with the things Jon has said, I consider them relatively mild unkindnesses. lol

Beekindpleez
Member

07-18-2006

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 12:38 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beekindpleez a private message Print Post    
I went snooping around...I was worried about Jon's Thanksgiving, LOL!!...and found this article posted this morning:

Former "Jon and Kate Plus 8" star Jon Gosselin was reportedly going to spend a few hours with the children on Thanksgiving day; however, those plans seem to be changing thanks in part to Kate. Jon made a brief appearance from Hawaii on Thursday night's episode of "Entertainment Tonight," and in it he gave a brief shout-out to his kids, saying that he would see them "the day after" (when he has custody for sure) in the event that he wasn't able to see them for the holiday itself.

The last time a major holiday came around for the Gosselin family--in this case the ninth birthday for twins Mady and Cara--Kate eventually gave in and allowed Jon to stay for longer than his allotted time. However, things have changed since that point as the divorce battle has become even more intense. Both parents are supposedly meeting with an arbitrator sometime over the next few days, and we will probably learn more about the family's situation through that. Jon has said in the past, though, that Halloween was the only holiday in which he didn't have any custody of the kids.

However, for now it looks like Jon will need to make alternative plans for the Thanksgiving holiday. At one time he was scheduled to be with girlfriend Hailey Glassman's family, but now that there relationship has become so wrapped in ambiguity it's hard to know if that's going to happen anymore. Instead, what we will likely see is a scenario where Jon gets to spend either a brief amount of time with the kids on Thanksgiving or he will be relegated to spending a good chunk of it with some friends in New York City.


Link is to examiner.com

Thought I'd pass it on for anyone else who might be worried, too. lol

Kellirippa
Member

07-10-2002

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Kellirippa a private message Print Post    
Of course there are very few comments or actions on Kate's part that could be considered critical towards Jon, every appearance she makes and every word she utters is under the direction of TLC and their legal team. They had hoped and are likely still hoping to keep Kate under contract for future projects. They want Kate to be the good guy. I think there's a reason she answers every question very.....very..... s-l-o-w-l-y...

Keldogg
Member

08-12-2005

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:45 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Keldogg a private message Print Post    
Kate has not made many negative comments towards Jon. Call it scripted, call it under the direction of TLC, call it what whatever you want. If it takes a network to keep a spouse from badmouthing another spouse, I don't care. It's not there for the kids to see and/or read.

Sabbatia
Member

08-15-2005

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 7:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sabbatia a private message Print Post    
Yep Bee, those are the two that I remember...and they were done in a joking way. That's alot different from saying she despises him.

Her husband has been a million times worse than mine during her divorce, and she's kept her mouth shut a lot better than I have LOL.

Cinnamongirl
Member

01-10-2001

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 7:58 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cinnamongirl a private message Print Post    
I think the reason she speaks slowly and calculated is because people love to twist what she says to suit them and she cares about what her kids will hear and see later on....so its her thinking before she speaks, unlike her ex.

I don;t see the kids rebeling against Kate at all, why would they? cuz she's the disciplinarian? she has rules?

Cinnamongirl
Member

01-10-2001

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 8:22 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cinnamongirl a private message Print Post    
I do relate to Kate. And I beleive that those of us that do, see her flaws...that doesn't equate to "no wrong". Everyone has flaws, I know I do.

And after these past few months... who is the ridiculous one?? I mean really??? come on...

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 8:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
I have this feeling the kids will rebel against Kate in a bad way and be all about their father

angel, isn't that natural with kids and the noncustodial parent anyway? the grass is always greener type of thing? shoot, my daughter is all about my husband cause he is the 'fun' one and doesn't have to lay down the day to day rules.

Mamabatsy
Member

08-05-2005

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 9:30 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Mamabatsy a private message Print Post    
There might be a time when they are young that they prefer the "fun" parent, but when they are fully formed adults they will appreciate the real parent. If they ever have children of their own they will truly appreciate Kate.

Imagine what those kids would be like if Jon had been in charge. Wait, we don't have to imagine. We have Octomom. Jon is a male version of Nadia Shulman. An emotional child trying to raise children. It would be best if a parent could be somewhere in the middle and not be too regimented and not too lax, but since we are dealing with humans here, I prefer the Kate way to the Nadia way.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 11:07 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Interesting that Jon seems to get a pass with some because he was so young when they got married and had kids, so at age 34 it is somehow understandable that he's acting 13.. but then Hailey is knocked for hurting Jon.. wait.. Hailey IS young.. now, and I think it is clear that she has been hurt BY Jon. Not saying she's mature or even all that likeable, but I'd cut her slack before I'd cut Jon much of it.

And what a difference a couple of years make. Lucky for these kids that their mother isn't also pulling the "I was so young" card or even the "I never got to backpack through Europe like Jon card" but sticking with her job as mom.

I found it sad that Jon had pulled the plug after they got passports.. now surely JON had a passport in the past for his travels in his bumming around days that was his replacement for going to college, but you just know Kate must have been so excited by the very thought of traveling like that and having the kids do the same. So instead he takes his passport and takes Hailey to France and then pulls the plug on the show, shutting down those dreams (for now) for Kate and the kids. I'm not thinking he should have been forced to travel if he was hating his life with them at the time, but too bad he shut down that chance for all the rest and of course in typical passive aggressive fashion he did the travelling with Hailey, in a very public way, to rub it in.

==

As for the fun dad stuff, Jon already started it with the gifts he chose for the twins' birthday and the public statements that he had them sent to his mother so they wouldn't be sent back / disappear whatever.. implying that Kate would have objected or interfered. so not only did he buy affection with the gifts but got in a public dig at Kate at the same time.

Interesting that when he took the kids to the minor league baseball, which seems like a fun thing for all of them to do, he just had to meet and greet his public, claiming it was his job and those nice people were fans, etc. So when that was taped, he didn't seem to have any problem with having his children filmed or even having them be around his fans and took time out from his kids to be with his fans. And yet in that filming he was still more appealing than he has been in recent months. Still at that time, Kate's filming with the kids was done at home, having fun and didn't involve interaction with her fans while with the kids.

Texannie
Member

07-16-2001

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 11:56 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Texannie a private message Print Post    
And what a difference a couple of years make. Lucky for these kids that their mother isn't also pulling the "I was so young" card or even the "I never got to backpack through Europe like Jon card" but sticking with her job as mom.


i have thought that interesting too, Sea. Kate was young too. I wonder what the reaction would be if she was saying she needed to sow her oats too.
I totally get that he feels like he missed 'his youth'. At 51 I wonder where the time has gone too and wished things were different, but you deal with the choices that were made and go on. That's what being an adult is all about.

Cricket
Member

08-05-2002

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 12:53 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Cricket a private message Print Post    
Seamonkey, are you forgetting that Kate told Jon it was over the previous October? That was a mistake on her part. She really thought she could control Jon and once he got out, others told him to get away from her and how could he let her treat him like that.

I wonder if that 'contract' Kate drew up has been destroyed to protect her.

What does everyone think of Kate not letting Jon be with the children at Thanksgiving? Is that right for the children?

Ahnicka
Member

08-08-2007

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:14 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ahnicka a private message Print Post    
Cricket, it's hard to say because I'm a bit different from you in that I don't put validity on the things Jon says, as well as the aunt, uncle, lawyer, manager, etc. Since the claim about Thanksgiving came from Jon, I don't put much stock in it being the truth. Again, it's hearsay. Hearsay is not fact and although it has it's uses, it all depends on the credibility of whom it's coming from. Jon has zero credibility IMO so I have no thoughts on it other than the thought: "how do we know it's true?" If I heard Kate herself say it, which would be directly from the source then maybe I'd have some thoughts on it. Right now, no validity, no thoughts.

Ahnicka
Member

08-08-2007

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Ahnicka a private message Print Post    
Thanks to all of you who responded to my question regarding why do you think Jon lies so much!

Ahnicka, re Hailey's book of choice, I feel everything she does or says is for show and to garner sympathy for herself. It seemed like she was trying to pick a fight in the above article. Just because she seems to misconstrue what Jon says isn't the same as him lying.

Cricket, that may be true about Hailey, I'm not sure I don't have a full read on her yet, but you have a point. Regarding Jon's lying, I wasn't going on what Hailey said but on the multiple lies Jon has told and been caught in over the past year or so. Hailey's statement just caused the question to come to my mind; although, I do find it interesting that someone he's been dating has said the same thing about his lying a couple of times. However, again I have to consider the source, she may not be all that credible and can be like you said, doing things "for show [or to get a show] and to garner sympathy."

Beekindpleez
Member

07-18-2006

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:26 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Beekindpleez a private message Print Post    
What does everyone think of Kate not letting Jon be with the children at Thanksgiving? Is that right for the children?

I think we don't know yet whether Kate is letting him come or not. As the article I posted said, they're still working it out.

Sabbatia
Member

08-15-2005

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:46 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sabbatia a private message Print Post    
My take on it was that when he had other plans with Hailey, it wasn't an issue. Now that those plans have gone south, it is. If he had those plans first and then called up Kate and said his plans fell through and he wanted to see the kids that day....I wouldn't blame her for saying NO. Maybe not the best thing for the kids...but believe it or not, she IS human and would have a human response to it.

That being said, I don't come from divorced parents, but my STBX did. It was pretty much normal for us to have holidays on different days as the actual holiday. The girls I work with usually have two to three of every holiday.

Vacanick
Member

07-12-2004

Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 1:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Vacanick a private message Print Post    
In my custody situation .. my son alternates Thanksgiving week with me and his father every other year. Is it fair to everyone, no. But that's the way it is.