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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 4:49 pm
i am not disputing the research and while that does sound like the ideal, my point is many marriages work very well that may not be considered ideal/healthy by others.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 4:50 pm
I've heard Kate say more than once that her 'job/show' was taken away too soon. That's odd, because before there was even word of trouble in the marriage, I was thinking the show might end this year with the sextuplets being in Kindergarten, which is all day now, unless in a private school and parents req. only half day. When would the filming be done if all the children are in school? It just seemed natural that it would end, but Kate intimates that it ended much too soon. I'm curious as to when she thought it would end, and if she had any plans for when it did end.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 4:54 pm
Karuuna stated: Everyone is happy at the beginning. But when problems are never actually cleared up, resentment builds, and eventually that catches up with the couple. If it hadn't been tv watchers commenting on it, it would have been his friends, or as he often said, Kate's complaining about his inability to stand up and be a man would have triggered it. I have always found that when one partner doesn't want to deal with/be around the other partner's family, it eventually becomes an issue. Perhaps Jon resented not being with his family more. It's one of those things that can catch up with the couple. Did Jon have any friends other than Kate's brother? They seemed to get along well.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 5:47 pm
The fact of the matter is that Kate filed for divorce after Jon cheated on her. That is what ended the marriage. Jon did not file for divorce because Kate kicked him out, because she treated him meanly, or because she wouldn't let him see his family. None of those things, if in fact they actually occurred, was enough to break up the marriage. The marriage ended when Kate filed for divorce after Jon cheated on her. Jon had at least 5 opportunities to end the marriage himself, if he was that unhappy. In September of 2008, when Kate supposedly told him the marriage was over, he could have filed for divorce, he did not. February 2009, pictures come out of Jon partying in a bar. Jon could have come forward, said the marriage was over, and filed for divorce. Instead, he attacks the press, claiming that they are making things up and that he was just out with friends while taking care of his mother. March 2009, pictures and video of Jon leaving a bar and spending the night with the schoolteacher. The schoolteacher's brother comes forward and says that Jon spends many nights there. Jon could take this opportunity to reveal that the marriage is a fake and that Kate has ended it in all but name if that is the case, but he does not. Instead, he accuses the brother of making up lies for money. Spring 2009 Jon signs on to do ANOTHER season of J&K+8, despite his stated reluctance to do so. He COULD have refused to sign the contract, if he was as miserable as he will later claim, and expose the sham of a marriage, if that's what it is, but he does not. More stories come out about Jon and the schoolteacher, including pics of her at the house. The couple separates. May 2009, Jon supposedly meets and falls in love with Hailey Glassman. Despite later claims that this woman is his true love, Jon STILL does not file for divorce. June 22, 2009, after rumors of Jon's new love surface, Kate files for divorce citing Jon's behavior and concern for the children. If Jon doesn't cheat, does the marriage end? We will never know. There is certainly no indication that Jon was unhappy enough to end the marriage himself, though he was given plenty of opportunity to do so.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 5:53 pm
I fully believe if they never did the show, they'd still be together right now. Not to say Jon would not have eventually got fed up and not saying that they'd live happily ever after forever. Just that the show sped things up and stirred things up. The spotlight just shined down on the whole family way too hard and it ended up burning them all.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 6:03 pm
Julieboo, I actually think it might have slowed things down a bit. I think, without the money and spotlight, Jon's incentive to work at the marriage and live with the strain of Kate and 8 kids is much lower. Maybe I am wrong, but it just seems like he doesn't have the internal strength to power through the hard times and with 8 kids and little money (especially once he loses his job!) those hard times come crashing down. I see him looking around at his life and wondering how it came to this and yearning for his freedom even sooner. The TV show may have simply postponed the inevitable. It's much harder to abandon your responsibilities with people watching your every move.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 6:47 pm
I can see both being possibilities. After all, we started following this family during a period of immense stress, soon after the six were born. We are currently at the point where all 8 are in school full-time and the day-to-day stresses would normally take an intensity nose-dive. The budgeting of diapers, formula, etc is down-graded to the cost of normal food. 8 is still 8 but definately easier to be raising 8 school-age kids then 8 preschoolers. So I can see the dynamics in the marriage shifting greatly during this time period with or without cameras. If Jon had managed to get and hold a steady job, if Kate was back to working full-time they might be all coming together at the end of the day glad to see each other instead of burnt out from being together in a maelstrom of activity 24/7. We really have no idea what their interaction was like BEFORE the kids, we only know that they didn't handle stress well but that's only been a couple years.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 6:49 pm
Kate filed for divorce when it came out that she and Jon were living a sham of a marriage. Again, I really can't believe she told Jon she was over him and still expected him to behave. It just doesn't work that way. Kate is shocked...so shocked..that Jon had the power to stop her job. Divorce is ugly and I don't think she expected this. She might not have wanted to tell Jon she was done with him and he could live how he wanted, just don't get caught. She knew how big the paparazzi was by then. She's stated they started seeing them in the 3rd year and this was the 5th season. She didn't want to be married to Jon, but she wanted him to continue the show (her job.) She couldn't have it both ways. I don't consider Jon having an affair when he's been estranged from his wife for 5 months and she doesn't want counseling or him. Those are the facts I've seen. Julieboo, I agree with you that if they'd never done the show, they'd likely be together. Look what it did to Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. He absolutely adored her, but after their reality show, things changed. Once again, she (or her father) thought she'd be better off without him. They were so in love and I'm not sure either of them will find that same love again. Cameras are invasive and not saying certain things because they are around could reduce emotions for each other.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 7:20 pm
I think that there are probably things my husband does that bother me in the moment but then I forget about them. If I had camera footage of them, I would probably get bothered by them all over again and it would probably build up. I think that is maybe part of why some of these couples break up. There are so many things that J and K have done and said on camera during their show that have bothered me. (I never watched Nick and Jessica.) And I am not married to either one of them! But I can imagine that if that stuff bothers me and I don't even know them, it bothers them about each other x100!
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 7:58 pm
Onlyhuman, I believe it all happened exactly the way you posted above. It just makes common sense.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 8:21 pm
Kate filed for divorce when it came out that she and Jon were living a sham of a marriage. Again, I really can't believe she told Jon she was over him and still expected him to behave. It just doesn't work that way. Kate is shocked...so shocked..that Jon had the power to stop her job. Divorce is ugly and I don't think she expected this. She might not have wanted to tell Jon she was done with him and he could live how he wanted, just don't get caught. She knew how big the paparazzi was by then. She's stated they started seeing them in the 3rd year and this was the 5th season. She didn't want to be married to Jon, but she wanted him to continue the show (her job.) She couldn't have it both ways. I don't consider Jon having an affair when he's been estranged from his wife for 5 months and she doesn't want counseling or him. Those are the facts I've seen. Well, considering that the allegations that Kate caused the sham of a marriage come from a man who has demonstrated himself to be a compulsive liar, there is NO actual proof. I listed facts that HAVE been documented. However, if things played out as Jon claims, why didn't he seek a legal divorce in February? Why did he deny his wrongdoing? Why did he deny it again in March, when caught on tape again? Why did he sign up for another season of lying about the marriage? Why didn't he file for divorce when he started the affair with Hailey Glassman, the supposed love of his life? Jon was lying to the world about the marriage as much as Kate, if Jon's allegations are truthful. And, yet, he NEVER made any attempt to end this marriage. Kate ended the marriage in response to Jon's behavior. The timing of that cannot be refuted. Jon's behavior ended the marriage, the marriage that he was choosing to continue, no matter what its structure was. Maybe she did it because he had exposed his true, horndog self to the world and that ruined their brand, as he claimed. Or, maybe she did it because he repeatedly cheated and lied and she was hurt as any wife would be. Either way, it was his actions that ended the marriage that he demonstrated no willingness to end himself.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 9:46 pm
Kate has said that the marriage would have ended, show or no show. That is just her opininon, but she was there, after all. She may not have filed because he cheated (or if it isn't considered cheating for any reason, ghtn because he would be considered cheating as long as they were considered together and married), but because he so blatantly cheated and be in the public eye, partying. == The Rabbi.. well.. wonder how successful he was with Michael Jackson? His show was on TLC but maybe he's no longer under contract with them? == I agree that counselling is a good idea for those personality types, but you have to come to the therapy motivated and Jon has never seemed all that motivated to me.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 1:21 am
No one knows what actually was going on in the marriage. I think many of us interpret their relationship through our own opinions of what a marriage is supposed to be. What we need to remember is each marriage is unique, and what works for one couple doesn't work for another. The marriage is over. What we are left with is viewing each of them reacting to what has happened and what comes next.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 7:16 am
I think that there are probably things my husband does that bother me in the moment but then I forget about them. If I had camera footage of them, I would probably get bothered by them all over again and it would probably build up. I totally agree with that Happymom and that is why I think the show helped crumble them fast!! My dh does all sorts of things that irritate me (and I am sure the reverse is true) but I have a very short memory, so we go on and never stew over things. But if I saw these things over and over again, I think I would stew and I bet things would build up.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 8:52 am
My dh does all sorts of things that irritate me (and I am sure the reverse is true) but I have a very short memory, so we go on and never stew over things. But if I saw these things over and over again, I think I would stew and I bet things would build up. i completely agree..well, except for the part about being sure that i do things that annoy my husband too! 
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 10:49 am
I dont think they were living a "sham" sort a speak. Jon couldnt had kept it that long. I think they were both unhappy and it came to a head.
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Punkaroo
Member
05-30-2006
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 10:55 am
RIP Nana Janet
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 11:06 am
Um.. I confused.. Jon was not caught "cheating" in March 2009, he was caught in the passenger seat of a car being driven by a female friend. The girls brother made a statement that he was paid for, that Jon often stayed there, however Deanna Hummel states that her brother is making it up, it is all lies and that he has no credibility. He is a "shady" person with a criminal background. (interview with People magazine in May.) Jon has said that he had too much to drink that night and the girl, his friend, drove him in his car to one of his friends home's. We have no proof that either Jon's statement or the "brother's" statement is true or false. But, we certainly do not have "proof" that Jon cheated or spent the night, all we have is a photo of Jon is the passenger seat of his car. We also have photos of Kate and the bodyguard and we also have Kate's denial that there was an affair and we have Jodi Kreider's statement that she believes Kate was having an affair. Same situation, a photo, a statement and a denial. The only proof, photo's of two people with other people. Yet most believe Kate, who's image is carefully controlled by TLC, we do not believe Jon, who, undeniably does not have the support of TLC. Jon did not sign up to do any further seasons of J&K+8, he was never released from his contract. When ever Jon has attempted to give his side of the situation, TLC threatens him with breech of contract. Tomorrow Kate's side of the story will be broadcast on TLC in a very special Kate television event.
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Erniesgirl
Member
06-26-2006
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 11:15 am
I think the next program we will be seeing on TLC will feature the Rabbi having group sessions with all the other families on TLC - especially J&K and American Chopper - have you SEEN the promos on that family infighting? Wowser, the Rabbi would have lots of material to work with.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 11:16 am
we don't have proof of many things. alot of things being attributed as facts on both sides are allegations.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 11:53 am
There was video of Jon going to the woman's house and not leaving until the next morning. She wasn't his bodyguard and he had his own home. What reason is there for him staying there? Her brother reported that they were having sex. We know that at least one other time when a woman and Jon spent the night together, the nanny, they DID have sex, as reported by the nanny and later confirmed by Jon (though initially denied). Taken all together, it's hard to find another reasonable explanation, especially when you couple it with Jon's excuse for his behavior, which is that the marriage was over so he decided it was okay to act like a "single man". Kate and the bodyguard have a specific reason for being together. What's more, no one has found any evidence of them being anything else. No video of her going to his room, no pics of them looking intimate, and no reports of them being suspiciously close by people who have observed them together.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 12:00 pm
...plus, his wife is frequently with them.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 12:13 pm
Ernie, Rabbi Schmulley had a show like that a few years ago after his book came out. I thought he was sincere back then, but lately he seems to be chasing the lime light.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 12:35 pm
On the TLC website, I just saw the preview/promo for the TLC special "Kate's Story" that will air this Monday. It appears that she is revealing information that would be better left unsaid, in my opinion. I have been impressed that she has generally taken the high road, and I will be disappointed if she no longer does, simply because of the effect that it will have on the kids.
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 12:47 pm
Kelli, I agree completely.
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