Author |
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:04 pm
I think that the heart of a marriage and what makes it a marriage isn't some words on a piece of paper. So IMO it is not cheating if the couple feel that the marriage is over, regardless of whether or not they are legally divorced.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:12 pm
I agree, Jimmer.. the point where it is "over" is rarely at the exact time as the decree or signatures or filing. And I guess some people really do get to that point and make it back together, so there may be several points when it is ovr.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:21 pm
as to the nanny thing..yes, they do have helpers. she has said she will never have a nanny. it may be semantics, but i understand what kate is saying/meaning when she talks about not having a nanny. to me, a nanny is someone who lives in, is there 24 hours/day. a helper is like a babysitter, mother's helper type person who comes for certain hours during the day. i don't think they have someone who is there living in, 24 hours a day.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:27 pm
Seamonkey, yes, I've read that as well and have seen him act immature at times. I've just been watching some interviews with Kate's brother and SIL and the brother said (on May 13, 2009) that John came to their door one day six months ago and told them Kate just told him, "Hey, it's over." Was that before John had 'allegedly' been seen with another woman? Did Kate just want the marriage over? The interview also states that the two fought so badly, it would take TLC 8 hours to get 15 min. of good tape. No wonder the sniping sometimes came through on camera. I'm surprised they held it together as well as they did. This was a few years ago when the brother & SIL were still on the show. Kevin went on to say that John was very hurt when Kate told him it was over. That's what I'm seeing...a shocked and hurt John. Even though he might have grumbled and complained, I doubt he really wanted out. Kate said he lost his 'focus' whatever that means. Seamonkey, re the tabloid you saw, so many people are now talking about things Kate has done and said (gone through a lot of help, threw a fit when TLC wanted to pay Jodi & Kevin to be on the show, etc.) that she might not garner a lot of sympathy. I don't think she's a bad mother by any means, but her brother and people who have worked for her or helped her are blabbing now that a lot of things she states she is just aren't true and she's put the focus more on herself than the children/family life. I think what's going to happen is the kids will probably stay in their house and the two parents will each be there, but not together. That's the new way now. That would probably be 50/50 joint custody.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:52 pm
I don't give much crednece to those coming out from under various rocks so they can get their 15 min for some pay by a tabloid. I'm not saying anyone involved was easy to live with or that simply having that many kids that close together in age wouldn't stress many marriages. And some couples don't make it under seemingly ideal circumstances. I do hope the kids will stay with the house.. and as I've said before, with the amount of property they have, I could also see another house or conversion of the barn so that the kids could have both parents nearby. I agree joint custody would be the lesser of any evils if they do officially split. And if they are going to split, best to just do it; that splitting period of time can be deadly to live through. I did it for almost three years, but no children were involved, still very difficult.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 5:55 pm
I agree that if they are going to split; best to do it soon. The older girls have to be aware of what's going on. I hadn't read your post about them building another house nearby. If they can stand to possibly watch each other dating, that would be a good idea. I usually have no use for those getting paid for interviews also, but her brother and sister-in-law seemed very concerned for the children. They stated they are no longer in the show because TLC wanted to pay them for their participation, but when TLC asked Kate about it, she said no; the show was about her family. The producers told her brother and he said they would get to Kate and ask her to reconsider. Lol, he said he wasn't waiting for people to talk to his sister. He walked right down the street and asked her what the problem was? He said she freaked that the production people had told him what she'd said and started screaming. She told him it wasn't about the money. He agreed it wasn't about the money; it was about her being in control of the show and that's the way she wanted it. Production then brought in a babysitter for the kids in place of Jodi. These people didn't ask to be paid; TLC offered it to them, but needed to go through Kate. I ignored them when they did their first interview, but now so much has come out, I think they are telling the truth. According to the aunt, the little ones told her they were tired of cameras being on their vacations. She thinks like child stars, there should be some sort of laws re filming for 'reality' children. After all, it's scripted as well. She should have a chat with Paul Peterson, lol, who is a huge advocate re child stars. Maybe he could steer her in the right direction for 'reality' children. Kevin and Jodi now have 4 children. Didn't they just have 2 children when they were on the show..or did they possibly have older ones in school?
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 6:10 pm
Loved the excuse for not wearing a helmet: well, it's legal here and we were only going "about 4 1/2 miles an hour." I guess traumatic head injuries only happen at high speeds.
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Suzie
Member
05-18-2009
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 7:37 pm
Jon and Kate just look increasingly miserable together and I can feel the hatred through the screen. They weren't together for their 10th wedding anniversary so that says alot in my opinion. It's not looking like this couple is going to make it.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 8:11 pm
I confess that that I was channel surfing earlier today and ended up watching what I presume were earlier episodes. One involved a trip to an amusement park and the other involved a photo shoot for a magazine cover. Jon & Kate sure aren't a laugh a minute couple. As some people here know, I do portrait photography and having dealt with the very rare family that is …. well …. kind of negative, I'd say that Jon & Kate fit into that category. Kate especially tended to ooze negativity about much of the situations. It was like she went into everything almost expecting something to go wrong. I keep hearing how much Kate enjoys the show and her celebrity status but that didn't come through in the episodes that I watched. She didn't look happy about the whole thing at all. Oddly enough, Jon seemed more composed or at least appeared more resigned to the whole thing. I will give them credit though that the production didn't seem to try to sugar coat it too much to make either of them look good (or if they did … oh my).
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Suzie
Member
05-18-2009
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 8:47 pm
Kate is such a perfectionist and so OCD that she has a hard time really relaxing and letting go unless she can be in total control. If there is any aspect of something that she cant control, she is uptight and antsy and crabby. This is not bashing her, its just plain facts. If she decides that things are getting too messy when her kids are doing something, she quickly ends it all to ease her anxiety of the mess. I dont see how anyone with this problem can be totally happy. I think that Jon has just had it up to his eyeballs and beyond. He is miserable, she is miserable that he doesn't want her.....its a vicious cycle. I think she thought he would always be her little puppy dog and she is seeing now that this isnt so. I do think Jon cheated on her and I am never going to excuse that. I dont believe in stepping outside your marriage vows. If he was unhappy, he should have gotten a separation and then he can fool around all he wants. But I do think Kates ways just pushed him away. What a mess!
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Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 10:26 pm
Watching the video of Kate drinking water and not giving any to her daughter makes me wonder if the daughter will now take the place of John as someone Kate belittles and makes feel miserable. I hope I'm wrong about that.
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 10:50 pm
Everything I had read about Jon before all this happened indicated that he couldn't keep a job. He didn't want to work. Anyone that doesn't want the responsibility of a job would certainly be miserable with 8 kids. It's funny how we see different things when we watch the show. In Jon's face, I see the sheepish face of someone that knows everyone knows. And when he flat denied cheating, he cut his eyes away. I'm not saying Kate is wonderful by any means, But I don't think she's cheating on him. As for her constantly being on his case.....think about it. You have a man with 8 kids, that didn't want to work so he quit to help with the kids...but yet having 8 kids is overwhelming to him. I've seen a lot of passive/agressive activity from him over the last 4 seasons. He seems to say and do things just to irritate her and get her going. Yes, she is fast to fly off the handle....but he knows what makes her do it and pushes her buttons. I see Kate as being unhappy....I see Jon as caught. What has really amazed me through all this is, once he was caught, he continued to galavant around with the young girl. What is he thinking? Sorry ya'll...I hate to disagree with so many, but when I watch this show, I see Kate plus 9. She's the adult here...even though she is OCD.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, June 15, 2009 - 10:58 pm
He didn't quit to help with the kids, he was fired because he spent all his time at work onlie trying to get freebies for the family.
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 4:32 am
What has really amazed me through all this is, once he was caught, he continued to galavant around with the young girl. What is he thinking? Jon's thinking he's done with his marriage.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 5:06 am
It takes 2 to make or break a marriage. Even with cheating and cheating has been alluded to on each side. I say they each move on with their respective personal lives. It's obvious that Jon has fallen out of love. And I'd guess Kate hasn't been in love with Jon for a while. This is what happens when children become the focus and your romantic life is tossed away. It's a sad story because we've gotten to know this family and it breaks hearts to know these kids will never have mom and dad together as a loving couple. These kids will be yet another set of children from a divorced family where holidays will be celebrated seperately...Christmas Eve with mom and Christmas day with dad, alternating Thanksgivings and never again will they vacation as a family. They are both to blame for their kids being a statistic of a failed family. Blame does nothing it's over and the kids will never know the life of an intact family.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 6:00 am
I was rewatching the American Chopper show and it had been edited. Scenes with Mikey and the dummy were edited about and some other scenes, mainly voice overs were added in...weird.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 6:55 am
In the shows I watched (which I assume were done before the whole thing started to fall completely apart), Kate was just so negative. She was constantly talking about how things were going to go wrong before anything went wrong. I've just seen that so much before in my own work. The parents show up with their kids and before anyone says or does anything, the Mom is telling me how her kids misbehave and there's no way they'll cooperate (LOL – The Dads usually just shut-up in these situations). It's just so much negative reinforcement and you can see how the kids literally fulfill their Mom's negative expectation of them. I've got rather good at turning these negative expectations around because kids generally want to be good at things and do well and the parents are often amazed. But oh the negativity. I agree that Kate seems to have control issues. She has a very definite idea about how things should be done. When someone is like that other people tend to just give up and let the person do it. With respect to Jon's alleged affairs, I think that once an affair becomes public (known to more people than the immediate people involved) it is almost impossible for a couple to reconcile and make the marriage work. So many people giving advice with their own motives and feelings driving that advice. More than anything I'm sorry for them that it became public.
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Mgmriver
Member
04-27-2009
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 7:49 am
I'm waiting for the next big news shocker that Jon has gotten his girlfriend pregnant. Just watch it'll happen. I think that would send Kate over the edge; how would she be able to manipulate that situation. If it happens soon they'd have to address it on the show somehow. Although I think this is the last season, anyway.
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Seattlemom
Member
05-10-2005
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 8:50 am
what gets me is I wonder how I would feel if everyone thought they knew me enough to say what I am doing with my life and where it is going! I watch the media feeding frenzy on not just them but a lot of them! I know they put themselves in the public eye, but the rag mags just wait for someone to make a false move and that becomes the new person to ruin! That they seem to be having problems just makes me sad, but I have also had problems and one divorce, and now have been married 31 yrs. And I am sure both my hubby and I have done or said things that could be way blown out of context! its just my opinion I know but if people think they are so horrible why watch and read about it? I will continue to watch because I enjoy the kids. I'm sorry but I just feel sad that there seems to be so much joy in the media tearing people down.
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Delurker
Member
08-19-2005
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 9:39 am
Bravo!!! Seattlemom
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:22 am
I think it makes people feel better about themselves to point out others' flaws. Some people may feel better that others like J&K (who seem to be making a lotta $$$) don't have it very good even with the $$$. So they feel better about themselves cuz they don't have money, but they also don't have issues like J&K do and certainly don't have tons of people reading their woes in rag mags <77>
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:27 am
Kate's OCD really comes out when the kids are doing projects. It's funny to watch how tense she gets when messes are made. Otherwise, she keeps it somewhat under control. I'm confused if Jon fell out of love with Kate why he was upset when she told him it was over. I still can't ascertain if he kept company with the young woman after she told him that or because of it. It would have been towards the beginning of Dec. 2008. When was he accused of allegedly having the affair? I know this may be impossible, but my thing is if you have multiples like this and esp. when it's in the public light, you do EVERYTHING you can to keep the marriage together. Perhaps counseling might have helped them before it got this bad. I can't remember where or I'd provide the addy, but on a couple of sites I've read say Kate felt society owed them because the process of fertility treatment is not so perfect to know how many babies there will be. My thinking on that is they had twin girls and when you take fertility treatments you get what you get. Seamonkey, I'm surprised at why John got fired. I wonder if that was the 'focus' Kate spoke of. Perhaps they were supposed to be a team to garner as much wealth/things as they could to help raise the children when the spotlight was off them. The show has been entertaining, but if that is your goal; somewhere along the way you lose yourself/family. It's a Catch 22. I never knew what John did when the show started, nor what he did for the guy working from home. I thought he met his new boss through the show, with Kate have befriended the wife through the show or something. I too have read that he had problems keeping jobs. It's too bad it's not working out now because Kate has found her calling; seems to enjoy what she's doing and John seems okay being a stay-at-home Dad. I remember when he first started working from home Kate was so happy that he'd be there to help her. She used to grumble that he was at work all day and she had all the children by herself. ETA re Seattlemom and Julieboo's messages. I'm not happy at all at what's happening to them. It's so very sad for the children and the two of them after all they've been through. That's why I've been wishing for two years now that Kate/Jon might watch the shows and see how they might improve communication or go to counseling.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:42 am
I'm honestly quite sick of the media plastering Kate on every magazine cover. Enough already. We know they are having marital problems. We know Jon has been out running around doing who know's what. We know that Kate is a control freak who has alienated prior family and friends. There's no new news here. Will the real celebrities please step up and give us some real news! LOL. US is walking a fine line toward cheap tabloid. I alwasy thought they were hovering a bit above that. But their "Mommy you're mean" cover is just wrong. If I got a cover every time DD said that to me I'd be a supermodel. "No more TV tonight??!! Mommy you're mean!"
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Tishala
Member
08-01-2000
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:53 am
I agree Brenda. I encourage the real celebs of America to get on the ball and start doing things they know will garner attention. When is the last time somebody important had a public affair? Surely some actor or musician has been doing drugs and misbehaving publicly. I mean, Amy Winehouse doesn't have the market cornered. Can't Angelina make out with her brother on the red carpet again? Maybe Reese and Jake can get caught having public sex (yeah right...like those two have sex) in Will Rogers Park.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 12:23 pm
Truly, the celebs complain that reality tv is taking jobs away from them..time to step up and get back on the cover of the tabliods! LOL
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