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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 9:47 am
Kate's control issues and bitchiness apparently override what is proper behavior for the father of 8 young children I think Kate's control issues and bitchiness are due to Jon's passiveness and lack of ambition to be an equal part of this marriage/parenting. If he stepped up some, I think Kate would have stepped down some. Just my opinion.
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Lori32
Member
07-04-2008
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 9:50 am
Reader stated: Wow....If TLC allows that to be filmed,they are reaching a new low.Regardless of whose side you are on,it's WAY too soon to introduce daddy's new girlfriend.(OR Mom's boyfriend) to those kids.That is insane to even CONSIDER. And anyone that comes up with a good reason for that,rethink it please.Because that can't be good for ANYONE!! Psssst...Lori stated that,and i think reader quoted it. C'mon people,how often does anyone agree with my posts? LMAO! Ok,thought we all needed a laugh..
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Jkm
Member
07-10-2002
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 9:57 am
Imho, it's both - it takes two to tango. But as a child of divorced parents (dad's on wife #3). I am upset with Jon's role more... He should have left his wife if he was that unhappy - found himself then found the girlfriend. I've seen it happen with friends and family too many times - someone unhappy with some part of their lives (grass is greener syndrome)... someone pays them any positive attention - first they've had in years - they then get all happy again, but for the wrong reasons and make really dumb life changing decisions with what they think is their heart but eventually really turns out to be lust/infatuation. Problem is -- they never fixed the problem they were unhappy in the first place and eventually this "new" relationship will head the same direction - time factor varies with couples - days to a few years - but usually turns out the same. At least until they do finally mature and are happy with their selves as they are and are not so "someone else has it better" aspect. Counsel is needed for both - both are in a new stage. I think I read somewhere that buying/selling a home is almost as stressful as death of a spouse. Combine that with the cameras and all the young kids -- level has to be unbearable at times. Life changes, people have to adapt. It is survial when the kids are babies, and you blink and they are in school - you have time again to think, breathe, they can do most for themselves - time to adapt again.... Time to find your new role... (JOB!! or volunteering or hobby or whatever)
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:07 am
JKM, well put!
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Jkm
Member
07-10-2002
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:11 am
Oh and on the Jon subject -- His car, his bike, etc - all scream I want to be under 25 and free of responsiblities -- I'm not the responsible father of 8 kids. I want "my" life back. Please don't get me wrong Kate plays her part too. Her's is on each show to see, however I think she has lightened up considerably or they are down playing it. Which is why I said counseling for both - separtely would probably be better.
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:17 am
I've been wondering why I've been so upset by this pair, especially considering it's only in recent weeks I really got into it, watched a ton of back episodes, came to care for those great kids etc. It hit me late last nite that they are nearly identical to a couple of friends of mine. Although they thankfully didn't have kids, I was close to them for years and they had the EXACT dynamic to a T as Jon and Kate. It drove me nuts when it lived it, when I endured more fights then I can tell you and saw the pain on both sides. But the husband was my closest friend (his brother was an ex boyfriend/very significant relationship of mine and we all remained close). He had a heart of gold but could never stand up to her, always kept the peace until he couldn't take one more day of being beat down and told what to do and how badly he was doing it. He left when he was worried for the first time in his life he would blow physically as he had emotionally. I see SO many similarities in the couples, and think that is why I am so affected by them, and feel as strongly as I do. I'm just thankful my friends never had kids. And I really think this is why I am so drawn in, and also partly why I feel as strongly as I do. One last thing. I don't doubt both of them here are at fault. Jon even said on the last show that he was wrong, that he reached the point he could take no more and was wrong for not discussing it sooner. I think he is aware of this as my friend was. But if they are on that same page, perhaps part of why he is staying away is he doesn't want to totally blow with Kate and knows he is at that point? Just a shame they never learned to communicate better before it was too late. And I'm not sure Kate sees how her actions pushed Jon to where he is now. I keep waiting for someone to make a YouTube video of Kate bashing him nearly every episode, from putting down every single thing he did, to telling him to stop breathing because it was too loud, to cutting him off from telling what he did with the kids whenever she was away. The more I think of this, and combine it with what Jon recently said, the more I am sure she sucked the life out of him and their marriage with that endless sharp tongue. One last thought for now. I'm not judging Jon based onthe NY News who is so often wrong. I can't see any decisions being made so soon, but can see Kate putting out negative gossip to influence America based on her standard MO. We'll see.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:17 am
This is a chicken and egg argument. I guess jon would be the chicken and Kate would be the egg. Which one came first? We could go round and round as to whether Jon became more passive aggressive because Kate was so wenchy or Kate became so overbearing because Jon was so whimpy. It might even be split 50/50 as to who thinks the egg came first and who thinks the chicken! LOL! Their bad habits fed on each other and spiraled into a huge mess. I see Jon running for his life to get out of it and Kate spiriling in the same repeated direction (via her bitter words, public statement).
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Glenrie
Member
03-24-2006
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:26 am
Anyway, they said fans yelled out Happy Father's Day and nice things so Jon went in the house to get them those pics he then autographed. If Kate had felt it necessary to do this same thing, she would have been criticized heavily. There is lots of acreage for him to have a private Father's Day with the kids and not sign autographs. I won't even get into the fact that he wasn't signing random pieces of paper but had to go in the house and get photos. Now who is all about the fame?? One of the boys invited one of the girls to stay in the boy's crooked house because "she is my special girlfriend." That seems like a strange way to phrase it for a five year old. Sadly, I must agree. Jon assisted the Crooked House guys, he didn't single handily put them up. Neither did he clear the land alone. He had the Teuttles' to help with that and as usual didn't look happy that he had to work. I watched it last night and here is what I got: John all along has been sorta passive (passive aggressive-ish) and does just what is necessary to get by with Kate. Never really doing what he wanted, never really saying much, not taking much initiative in the family. Therefor the bulk of it fell on Kate, stress is high. All along he should have been stepping up more and being a co-parent instead of the 'other' parent, leaving Kate to wear the pants, be the boss, etc. Instead, he let it all build up and now what I see is John wants out, Kate does not, he's walking, she's crushed.} Once the dust settles I think the children will be lucky to see their dad. I have a feeling he's going to be making himself pretty scare. Absolutely agree with you both. The more Kate gets jumped on, the more I want to defend her. I've known too many men, my father included, who appeared to the public to be great guys but were so passive-aggressive at home that it made life miserable for everyone. Side note..The only thing that can get me riled up as much is hearing the Duggers name. They upset me so much I can't even verbalize it. As much as I'm on team Kate, I'd rather see Jon with the kids over the Duggers. Off to do some calming scrap-booking. Sorry about not italicizing. I've tried for the last half hour and never could make it work. 
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Zgoodgirl
Member
08-22-2003
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:39 am
I think Kate's control issues and bitchiness are due to Jon's passiveness and lack of ambition to be an equal part of this marriage/parenting. If he stepped up some, I think Kate would have stepped down some. Just my opinion. Right on Reader.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:45 am
I think Kate's control issues and bitchiness are due to Jon's passiveness and lack of ambition to be an equal part of this marriage/parenting. If he stepped up some, I think Kate would have stepped down some. Just my opinion. Right on Reader. See, and I don't agree at all. The times I did see Jon step up she shot him down because he didn't do it "right" or "her way". Remember when he helped do the girls hair and he used the pink thingies! Goodness sakes. Poor guy didn't know you don't use the pink thingies because they are special and you have to save them!
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:46 am
Sorry about not italicizing. I've tried for the last half hour and never could make it work. I've finally figured it out myself. Click the I button on, then put the words you want italics. Then click the I botton off. It puts a closing bracket and ends the italics. you can see when the I button is on because it looks indented. Good luck!
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:52 am
Lori ITA with you! I often find in threads where someone agrees with me, and then is rephrased and my point gets lost... FWIW I wish TVCH had a "quote" feature that other messages boards do!! and for the record! I never said that!! lol - you did!! ;) and I dont think I said what Zggod quoted me as saying.... of course my memory isnt what it used to be... I try and remain nuetral, or not real critical - basically because I am so not perfect! Now I'm going back and see if I can find where I said what!! *G
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:55 am
Reader234 Member 08-13-2000 Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 7:43 am Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Reader234 a private message Print Post the 2 years seperate has to do with the filings - she checked both boxes - Lurk - ITA - and I cite the "excited" statement as proof, he didnt filter it, he was excited to not be in that relationship to move forward... and ITA with an earlier post about having responsiblities with so many kids so young - he is sowing his oats (not that I agree with it - it is what it is!) To be honest, I was hurt by Kate's statement about the divorce," Jon countered Tuesday in his own release. "I have always done everything I can to protect our family. This weekend, I was home with the kids for four days, just being a dad. No nannies, just the kids and me." and the ratings: The family's troubles have resulted in huge ratings for the TLC show. The 10.6 million viewers who watched the Monday night show detailing the Gosselins' break up was a record, beating the huge audience for last month's "Jon & Kate" fifth season premiere by 800,000 viewers. http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/06/24/2009-06-24_new_jon_and_kate_plus_.html (Jon's new girlfriend? ) I've seen Kevin and Jodi clips from radar online - Ive always liked Jodi, and I know she gets beat up a lot.. verbally on message boards.. Lori32 Member 07-04-2008 Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 7:50 am Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lori32 a private message Print Post Wow....If TLC allows that to be filmed,they are reaching a new low.Regardless of whose side you are on,it's WAY too soon to introduce daddy's new girlfriend.(OR Mom's boyfriend) to those kids.That is insane to even CONSIDER. And anyone that comes up with a good reason for that,rethink it please.Because that can't be good for ANYONE!! Serate Member 08-21-2001 Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 7:56 am Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Serate a private message Print Post (see Lori it was you!! ;) and I see I reposted a the same link!! *oops - there was another article I had meant to post a link to! Sorry MgmRiver!!
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 10:59 am
Escapee Member 06-15-2004 Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 9:47 am Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Escapee a private message Print Post Kate's control issues and bitchiness apparently override what is proper behavior for the father of 8 young children I think Kate's control issues and bitchiness are due to Jon's passiveness and lack of ambition to be an equal part of this marriage/parenting. If he stepped up some, I think Kate would have stepped down some. Just my opinion. end Escapee's quoted post but I see Escapee was quoting someone and then expanding on it! its all good tho - imho!}
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:04 am
It riles me up too Hukd...to the point its best I don't post. You're not alone. believe me!!
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:04 am
Glenrie, there are videos of Kate doing similar autographs for fans. In one she went to her car to get a photo, in another a CD, and truthfully I stopped watching as I didn't really care about either of them signing autographs. I think part of what I do respect is how hard Jon has appeared to be trying to stay nice to any fans of the show while trying to avoid interaction with the Paparazzi. Kate seems to endure/tolerate the fans. Of course I realize perspective w/bring reflects how we see these things. Reader, all I can say is LOL and I so feel you. I just adore when what I say gets twisted to mean something else, when it is clear that isn't what I meant. Sigh gotta love it..usually that doesn't happen until BB hehe. And Lori I feel you too! It's amazing how invisible we can sometimes feel here huh? Love when I know someone acknowledged what I wrote. Just my long dang posts of late haven't really given time to acknowledge all or they'd be books not posts! One point that hasn't been mentioned is Kate said she left the house because it wasn't her time with her kids. I wonder if that is why she got so ticked when Jon said he didn't know where she was. Maybe? But it's certainly possible he took the question literally, not knowing where she was, and she felt he should know. Just a guess.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:14 am
I shop at the online Discovery store for my niece and nephew so I get their flyers in my email all the time. Today is the very first time they sent out a special flyer devoted to just selling Jon & Kate season DVDs. I'm not sure why it tickled me so, I guess because TLC must be raking in a crazy amount of money over all this.
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:27 am
Goodness sakes. Poor guy didn't know you don't use the pink thingies because they are special and you have to save them! Maybe if he had done their hair more often, he would know the pink thingys were special OR it may be that he knew and just used them to irritate Kate. Kate has HER way of doing things. You develop YOUR way of doing things by doing them over and over and figuring out what works best. Maybe if Jon had stepped up and done some of the repetitive chores over and over instead of her having to do them he would have established HIS way of doing things and could tell her what she was doing wrong when she tried to do something he was used to doing. I know she's not an angel, but with that many kids, if she's not regimented things could become chaos in a hurry. She's done what she had to do most efficient way she can, so that she doesn't have to live in a disorderly world. And on that note, I want to toss in here that my grandma had 9 kids, and in the 36 yrs I knew her, she never cleaned house...not once..ever...the bathroom was especially bad as you can imagine. She was too busy playing with the kids and grandkids. If you can live in that, then go for it. Aparently Kate is more like my clean freak, orderly mom would give us a bath as soon as we came home from her house.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:36 am
One point that hasn't been mentioned is Kate said she left the house because it wasn't her time with her kids. I wonder if that is why she got so ticked when Jon said he didn't know where she was. Maybe? But it's certainly possible he took the question literally, not knowing where she was, and she felt he should know...FROM ABOVE I'm sure Kate was just a cell-phone call away.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:36 am
On Mon. night's ep. when Jon said he let Kate rule the roost for too long...exactly...he LET her. He should have said more. For anyone who thinks all this is Kate's fault (no one specific here on this board)...that statement from Jon shows he knows he should have done things differently. How in the world did sealed divorce papers become unsealed? I hesitate to believe anything that is not coming directly from Jon and Kate or from actual photos (ie Jon with young women late at night in his car...which Jon confirmed was at night after they left a bar...not the same as Kate with a bodyguard). Speaking of actual photos, the most recent links go to the most fake photo I have ever seen of Jon and Kate. I really don't like that photo at all. Waaayyy up thread someone mentioned Kate had her breasts done when she had her tummy tuck. She did not. The Dr. told her to get a good bra. No one but Jon and Kate know for sure when the relationship was really over. But that vow renewal was less than a year ago or about a year ago. Jon said on Mon. night's ep. that they had been having problems for about 6 mos. or that the last 6 mos. had been rough. I personally do not feel that is very long, not long enough to lead to a divorce at this time. (Unless there was some deal breaker like infidelity...and then, when you have kids involved you should at least think long and hard about deal breakers and try to see what can be done and maybe reevaluate.) Sure, if one or both aren't willing to try to make it work, then misery together or divorce may be the only two options...but imo they should have tried for the sake of the kids to work this out. Maybe one or both refused. But I think they should have tried. If they did try, they didn't try long or hard enough imo. I know Kate says they have been dealing with this for a long time. Maybe they did go to counseling for years and did try. I do hope they did. But if they didn't, they were not putting their kids first the way both keep saying they did. (I tend to agree with the poster who said TLC would probably have wanted them to mention being in counseling.) Been married 23 years, I agree with the poster who says it goes in waves...ups and downs, good and bad. While I agree that no one should have to stay in a bad marriage, I do not think they put enough time and effort into improving their marriage. When Jon realized he should have spoke up more, that he isn't a great communicator (both things I have seen him say on camera), he should have tried harder instead of running around publically acting like a single guy, no matter what state his marriage was in. People talk about Jon being so young (now and when he had kids) but Kate is only 2 years older than Jon.
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Escapee
Member
06-15-2004
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:42 am
If Jon would have made the effort to help set the rules and standards for the house, then maybe Kate wouldn't have been so difficult. It's got to be tough when your partner doesn't help set the standards, then doesn't bother to abide by the standards that he wouldn't help set.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:51 am
People talk about Jon being so young (now and when he had kids) but Kate is only 2 years older than Jon. Exactly!!! Both too young and not in the marriage long enough to bring this many kids into it! Sorry...JMO
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:54 am
WOW Happy see we can agree!! (I was the one who said I felt TMC would have mentioned them being in counseling). And if Kate's brother is to be believed (I can't decide bout him and Aunt Jodie), Kate refused counseling. My feeling on that is because any decent one would likely have suggested ending the show for a variety of reasons, and it seems Kate is totally non-negotiable on that front. In an earlier post I said I wished someone would put together clips of the verbal attacks. This is pretty close, and I think the person tried to be fair in terms of both sides (but it's hard). I only could handle the first one. To me watching it, it was like seeing Jon as a balloon being blown up until he was about to burst. I think this clip (perhaps clips, there are SIX) show what I've been trying to say better than I can find the words for; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZJIi9A2Grw&feature=related PS Escapee...even in the this video you can see Jon trying to change things and being shot down. He was clear on wanting to let the kids play and make a mess and BE KIDS. He was talking to a brick wall. Could he have tried harder? Probably. But when one is NEVER listened to, I can see where they just give up. In this case I think that's sad for the kids sake.
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Mgmriver
Member
04-27-2009
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:54 am
Don't you all remember early on when the kids were very young and Jon still went to an outside job. He'd come home and take the kid duties over while Kate prepared things for the next day. Remember when Jon would do something as innocent as feeding the kids and she'd be all over him for not feeding properly. He would often say to the camera "it's not worth arguing there isn't enough time, I'm just going to get them all fed, bathed, changed and down for bed. There were many times he rather do as told because as he said there wasn't a lot of time to waste arguing, things had to get done. Should he have stood his ground and said NO this is how I feed etc., maybe. But that is the past and he really needs to only think about his future and the kids futures. This isn't all black and white and the blame game is a moot point. It's all about the future and I'd be glad if all found happiness. It looks like Jon is well on his way. I fear that Kate is one of those people who feels most comfortable when there is something to correct or complain about. I don't think happiness comes to her in the form peacefulness.
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - 11:59 am
Forgot to mention in my last post w/the You Tube link. Be sure to notice the name of the unloader. It's "NoHate4Hate." So even a fan seems to be fair on this. Then again, all this stuff aired so there is no dispute it happened. ETA Mgm just read your post and ITA with all of it. I was thinking similar thoughts in that clip when she was yelling at him for just standing outside the kitchen w/his arms folded waiting to serve the kids. But any time I've seen him go in the kitchen to do anything she goes totally ballistic. Anyone remeber the Korean dinner? And after a full day of yelling at him to get out of her kitchen, she asks him to do it every week. GEE what a surprise he said no and rolled his eyes as I recall!
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