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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 3:39 pm
But what is this whole water thing supposed to be pertinent to? Jon referenced it in legal papers he filed, Ahnicka. See SeaMonkey's post at Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 1:35 pm
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 3:43 pm
But that's all smoke and mirrors. I don't see how Kate not being able to give Mady water at the precise moment she wanted it during an interview is relevant to Jon breaking his contract. Jon is at fault, no matter how they try to spin it or make it about Kate. Kate has nothing to do with Jon violating his contract.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:00 pm
Ahnicka, I'm not talking about any contract. I had heard about this tape and accidentally came across it trying to find info on how the child custody was currently set up. I had ignored this allegation and didn't really know what it exactly was until I came across the Youtube. I'll be curious to see if TLC can win in their lawsuit of Jon, but I'm not sure they will. Could Jon be saying that all the media interviews were hard on his children? Where this tape may be pertinent will be in the custody battle. I think Kate no longer wants joint custody and has gone for full custody.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:02 pm
Ahnicka, exactly, it is all smoke and mirrors. If Jon had video of Kate beating the kids it might matter. But a simple refusal to give a drink of water at one time is *nothing*. No court would find that meaningful. That's my point. And as parents, none of us are perfect. Sometimes we're tired or distracted or doing something else at the moment our child asks for something and we simply have to wait for their turn at our attention. That's hardly abusive.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:07 pm
I feel I'm hitting my head against the wall on this issue. Are all of you saying you condone Kate getting water for herself and not sharing it with her daughter? My anger at what she did has nothing to do with Jon's contract and/or lawsuit. I just couldn't believe what I saw. To excuse it because it's part of a lawsuit defense is just very confusing to me. I don't why they submitted it, but it's more likely to do with the kids having to go on interviews rather than Kate. Isn't Jon's beef that he wanted to get his children away from the media/cameras and that could be why he stopped adhering to the contract?
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:12 pm
I thought the custody arrangements were spelled out legally in a temporary custody agreement? Other than that, it's just out of the kindness of their hearts (or not) that they do anything else. I don't know, Karuuna. All I could find is Jon saying he would be with his children (with Kate) for Christmas and my first thought upon reading that was he is a very gullible man. She didn't want him there for the Birthdays (2 hrs) and doesn't want him there for Thanksgiving; yet he says he'll be there for Christmas. That's five weeks away; I'm not as hopeful as he is. What I did get out of it is Jon said Christmas falls on their 'joint days' when he and Kate are both at the house. That was a surprise. I still never could find if there were specific days each had the children.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:14 pm
Cricket, speaking only for myself, I am saying that when Kate "denied" the water to Mady, it was circumstance that caused that exchange. Mady is known to be somewhat demanding and difficult. They had an interview to get thru. I also think Kate was about to give her some water, but that moment passed. I also think there are simply times when things like that happen. The video you link to comes from US magazine, which is known to slant things. In fact, the cover on that page you link to has some interesting "headlines." Do I condone it? That's hard to say. But I certainly do understand how that exchange could come about and don't see it as Kate being cruel or uncaring. It was but a small moment in time that can be taken however the viewer chooses to take it, but I don't think Mady is truly suffering from it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:14 pm
Why do we have to agree with you to make you stop hitting your head? We're all just posting how we see it. Part of that has to do with the fact that it WAS filed as part of the lawsuit. So we're commenting on that. Nothing wrong with that, since it is a fact, right? And I am quite reluctant to judge someone as a parent because of one incident, in particular, one that I did not personally witness, and I don't know the full context. Videos of anything taken out of context can seem to mean something entirely different. I'm sure if folks had videos of my entire parenting history, they could cut a clip that makes me look a horrible parent. I've had my moments, for sure. But parents don't have to be perfect to be good parents. So, I refuse to judge her based on that one thing. It's not that I haven't judged her on other issues, like her OCD and commented that it's hard on kids and partners. But one clip does not make a person.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:15 pm
Isn't Jon's beef that he wanted to get his children away from the media/cameras and that could be why he stopped adhering to the contract? IF this is Jon's beef, then he, himself, should stop trotting them out for the cameras when it's convenient or looks good for him to do so. He got paid to allow filming of the twins getting in his little sports car. So, IF it's his beef, he should walk his own talk.
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Texannie
Member
07-16-2001
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:15 pm
The whole water thing is actually old news. It's happened a while ago and was all over the news. The edited sound bite is much more titillating than showing the whole video which is what Azriel described.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:17 pm
I asked this before, but I think it got lost. LOL Has something changed? Because not very long ago I heard Jon say (on one of those tabloid tv shows) that they would all be together for Thanksgiving.
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:18 pm
Cricket, I'm not sure which version of the water incident you viewed, but I think many of us don't perceive it in the way that you do. I think Azriel summed it up very nicely, that's mostly how I saw it. Also, I did see Kate reach for the bottle of water the 2nd time to hand to Mady, but the interview was about to start so instead she shoved it further behind the chair or sofa. Furthermore, I think other's point of view is that even if Kate did intentionally withhold water for reasons she may feel justified in, it certainly doesn't make her some bad mother or abuser as the link is trying to spin it. I don't think you're hitting your head against the wall, some of us just see it differently; most of us just don't see things in the skewed manner that the US Magazine link wants us to or has tried to portray it to look, which is why we sought out other videos of the same incident that provided a more well-rounded view rather than a skewed one; sought out a more peripheral look rather than a tunnel one.
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:24 pm
Bee, I've heard 3 different things. First Jon said he'd be with Hailey and her family for Thanksgiving. Second, I think I heard he would be partly spending it in Hawaii and then with Hailey. Third, I guess he'll now be with the kids? My memory on this could be a little off. But maybe his plans keep getting changed.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:26 pm
Thanks, Ahnicka. Jon confuses me. LOL
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:39 pm
That was the nice version of that video. The first one I saw completely cut where the six were professing their thrist also. She couldn't give one a drink without giving all of them a drink....and she didn't have time. I see exactly what ahnicka posted earlier.
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:03 pm
Sounds like Hailey has officially bailed the Jon team. Hailey keeps busy on Twitter Jon Gosselin really knows how to pick 'em! The douche father of eight has to deal with Kate Major possibly suing him and now he has Homewrecking Hailey WhatsHerFace talking smack online. And things must not be going well between Jon and Hailey because she took to her Twitter page and said the following: "Came home to spend time with my parents. I've missed my Mom.. There has been a giant fork driven between us the last 7 months. :-/ I've been dating someone like Dexter-lol-Its the most frustrating thing. I'm going to write a book..-lol. Welcome to my nightmare." Gee, wonder what she could possibly be referring to. Oh, you coy one! She then added the following: "I literally am almost done with my reading "How to deal with a Compulsive Liar".-LOL. no joke though! Thats the sad thing. Thanks to everyone who has been really supportive.Sorry i'm not very talkative I just have no fight left in me+ I don't have words but "wow". Gag! Sounds to us like this chick just wants someone to come knocking on her door and pay for an interview. She continues making little comments about Jon but says nothing of substance. She then adds: "My kind heart/soul was manipulated n taken advantage of. At 22 I've seen n felt the ultimate betrayals,I mean i guess i've learned a lot :-/" I want to personally thank Everyone for there positivity/support. I truly appreciate it.Like I said from minute one "You Live, and You Learn" I feel like comedy is a way of healing and feeling happier. I mean sometimes a good laugh just hits the spot. ." We agree. And everything about you is pure comedy. Well I guess Jon isn't any better at keeping friends than Kate is. He is sure worse at picking them.
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:15 pm
I don't know if this is another ploy by Hailey or both Jon and Hailey in an attempt to get another paid interview, but while reading it a question popped up in my mind. Hailey says: ""I literally am almost done with my reading "How to deal with a Compulsive Liar".-LOL. no joke though! Thats the sad thing." That made me wonder, why is it do you think Jon lies so much? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really interested in your opinions. Do you think he has a problem, i.e. he's pathological and needs help? Or do you think it's a less clinical reason? He's been caught in so many lies and still continues to lie, I'm really curious as to why he does this and whether he really believes the lies he tells or if he's cognizant of what he's doing, which would make it somewhat of a malicious intent. What do you all think?
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:28 pm
Why do we have to agree with you to make you stop hitting your head? We're all just posting how we see it We don't have to agree at all, Karuuna. I just kept getting confused with all the 'smoke and mirrors' responses. It was like I couldn't get anyone to discuss the incident because it was part of Jon's lawsuit. That's why I posted I wasn't connecting that incident with the lawsuit at all. Beekind got what I was talking about and I understood her response very well. Thanks, Beekind. Beekind stated: Has something changed? Because not very long ago I heard Jon say (on one of those tabloid tv shows) that they would all be together for Thanksgiving. Jon said Kate doesn't want him there and he's debating whether to push it or not. She's having her bodyguard and his family over to dinner. Rissa, I do agree Jon has picked the wrong people to hang with and represent him. One of the worst was Hailey. There is something wrong with that girl...she's so very, very immature. If they are done for good, that's the best thing that could happen to Jon. It would be better for him to move back to PA and possibly stay with his mother for awhile and try to get a regular job and get on with his life. I hope for his sake he finally gets some good advice. Kate said it was beyond the limit where she could go back to just being a normal person. Jon may feel the same way. Unfortunately for him, he will have to quit feeling that way much sooner than Kate. Now would be a good time.
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:36 pm
That made me wonder, why is it do you think Jon lies so much? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really interested in your opinions. Do you think he has a problem, i.e. he's pathological and needs help? Or do you think it's a less clinical reason? He's been caught in so many lies and still continues to lie, I'm really curious as to why he does this and whether he really believes the lies he tells or if he's cognizant of what he's doing, which would make it somewhat of a malicious intent. What do you all think? LMAO....I'll give you an armchair diagnosis from a CPA if you want. NPD is difficult to diagnose for several reasons. First, some people with NPD function sufficiently well that they do not come to the attention of therapists. Second, narcissists are prone to lie about themselves; thus it may take a long time for a therapist to notice discrepancies between a patient's version of his or her life and information gained from others or from public records. Third, many traits and behaviors associated with NPD may be attributed to other mental disorders. Low functioning narcissists are often diagnosed as having borderline personality disorder (BPD), particularly if they are female; if they are male, they may be diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). If the person with NPD has a substance abuse disorder, some of their narcissistic behaviors may be written off to the mood-altering substance. Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html#ixzz0XSBoatSP
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Rissa
Member
03-20-2006
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:47 pm
Cricket, I agree about Hailey being immature. I can't really find it in myself to hold it against her though, she IS only 22... immature comes with the age. Especially with the sudden infamy she found herself in the middle of. I will with-hold judgement on her until she is a little older and fully cooked. LOL I love the comment she made about writing a book {sigh}.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 6:50 pm
I think Jon just doesn't THINK at times and speaks off the cuff and when that doesn't work, he modifies what he said previously. Not sure if he has any formal disorder, but he's quite immature.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:03 pm
Jon G To Spend Thanksgiving With Hailey's Parents Snip: (Hailey speaking) "My family and I would never let him eat Thanksgiving dinner alone in an apartment," says Hailey. "He's coming to our house for Thanksgiving. I don't care." Jon, 32, says that was the plan all along. "I still planned on going to her house on Thanksgiving; that was on my schedule," he says. But Hailey isn't thrilled with his answer. "On your schedule? What do you mean, 'On my schedule?'" she asks. "Let's see, Kate has the kids, and she's having a nice huge meal with Steve and his family. Uh, let's see, should I go to Hailey's or should I sit in my apartment all alone?" "Sorry, I used the wrong term," says Jon. "I plan on going -- I made a promise to her family I would go to her house." "Made a promise? You're not doing my family any favors!" replies Hailey. "We know what the right thing to do is. We know what we both need," she continues. "He needs to do his thing and I need to do my thing. We both know this." Ahnicka, re Hailey's book of choice, I feel everything she does or says is for show and to garner sympathy for herself. It seemed like she was trying to pick a fight in the above article. Just because she seems to misconstrue what Jon says isn't the same as him lying. Jon told ET he had planned to see his children on Thanksgiving, but Kate didn't want him there and he wasn't sure if he'd go for awhile anyway or just not fight it. He then planned to go to Hailey's parents. ETA: Rissa, it's almost like Hailey wants to be Kate2. She wants to be No. 1 in Jon's life as if he doesn't have 8 children.
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Onlyhuman
Member
08-04-2001
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:26 pm
Hailey acts like Jon doesn't have 8 children because Jon acts with her like he doesn't have 8 children. He speaks of how wonderful Hailey is for him because she doesn't demand things of him, lets him do what he wants, while at the same time managing his calendar and keeping his life straight. He treats her like Kate but without having to have the responsibilities that marriage and children entail. I do love how Jon "I just want to live a private life" Gosselin, gives an interview with ET about how that mean Kate is keeping him from his children from Thanksgiving. Can we finally put to rest the ridiculous mythology that this guy EVER wanted to be off TV and Kate forced him to continue a public life???
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:36 pm
Cricket, that was from Nov 5th. I think things have changed since then.
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Countrydaze
Member
11-07-2003
| Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:39 pm
Jon got married young and came into father hood quite early, to a very large family. First it was the two girls and he was very satisfied with them. Then Kate insisted that they have one more and Jon being the passive one and Kate being the aggressive one, she won the battle. They ended up with six more. I think the beginning of the taped shows, showed Jon took a very aggressive part in the caring for the kids. He went to work every day and when he came home he played with the kids while Kate cooked and then he got them ready to eat and helped put the food on the table and after dinner he said it was his job to bath the kids and get them ready for bed and he did not complain, he said that he enjoyed doing those things. It also showed him getting up early for work and making Kate's coffee and bringing it to her in bed. Any trips they took, he was the one loading and packing the car. When they moved, both times it was him who took the beds apart and loaded the stuff into the truck. I never saw Kate help with that stuff, but I did see her barking orders at him all the time. He may have mouthed off to her, but let me tell you if I ever talked to my husband like she did, well I never would and he would not have stayed around very long. He was given an allowance and told what to do and when to do it. Yes, he did allow her to treat him that way, and for many years. So when he finally got loose he went a bit wild, which even I admit was wrong, but I do understand it in part. Kate has never been very nice to him and berated him in front of the kids many, many times which I think is totally unforgivable. I really don't understand the strong hate for him. He loves his kids and has been a good father up until this past year, but he needs to be cut a break. If he really wants to do better, lets give him a chance. If Kate doesn't want him to see the kids for Thanksgiving, who is she really hurting. I think its the Kids and if she bad mouths him, in time they will understand that what she is doing is just plain wrong. Cricket, as far as the water incident goes, I agree with you. She was given the water, took a gulp and put it down. She could have just passed it over to Maddy after she was done taking a drink. She didn't ask for the water until after Maddy said how thirsty she was. In my opinion, that was just mean on her part.
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