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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:34 am
Are they legally separated though?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:44 am
Oh, could be, Kitty. That would make a difference.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:55 am
I don't know about PA law, but in CA, after the date of separation, whatever each makes on their own is theirs to keep/they don't have to share. Only money earned after the marriage date but before the date of separation is community property. It may be the same in PA. Also, J&K may not agree on that date. I don't think PA is a community property state; however, they may have similar laws. Kitty, I really like this: "But her being a shrew in the past is no reason for him to being the jerk he is now."
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:55 am
How do we know she got $75,000 for that episode?
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:58 am
Happymom, I call it like I see it. She may have been (and probably still is) a difficult person to live with, but I havent seen her do anything to purposely hurt Jon or try prevent Jon from earning a income. She is not parading men infront of her kids. If anything the kids come first with her. Sorry Jon's current actions can not be excused at all. Kate can take a pamprin to help with her moods, there is no cure for what is going on with Jon.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:01 pm
That is an interesting point.. when is the line drawn in the sand and ours becomes his and hers as far as earnings go. Of course Jon's halting of the filming has caused both incomes to plummet, I suspect, but then he had his gig with ET and a few other paying gigs. Even if the line has been crossed.. in terms of child support and spousal support, things can be re-evaluated even after a ruling has been made initially. But that won't stop Jon from (or Kate either) hiding income). I can remember years ago a co-worker going through a divorce.. she had found that her husband was cheating with a secretary and she was out for blood, and so was her attorney. She herself had a pretty decent income as an analyst/programmer, plus some military benefits, but the husband was making more. Her attorney had her quit her job in order to get alimony and more child support. I never quite respected that, since she had every intention of going back to work as soon as she got more money. And we all know that some money can be sheltered (think O J Simpson). As for Jon, he can be marginally funny, I don't find him even remotely shart witted or interesting. I've noticed more and more, even in past episodes, just how harsh sounding he can be with the kids.. barking orders at them. Of course he also seems to have fun with them.. not saying he doesn't love them. Also in the last ep with the large rocket, while it could be fun for sure, he seemed just as fixated on the paparazzi as Kate ever is, but he was on his large property, but choosing a spot in full view of the paps, so seemed like he was playing into their hands once again. Also noted that he mentioned to one of the dogs (who were still there I guess) about not chewing something, so I'd say maybe he himself had issues with the dogs being destructive (of course anyone with dogs must learn not to leave stuff lying around where said dogs can gain access..).
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:03 pm
We don't know that Kate got $75,000 for ANY episode. That is the highest figure ever quoted by some tabloid site and of course is the most quoted ever since, but as far as I know, no one here has a clue ..
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:05 pm
How do we know she got $75,000 for that episode? I don't know how much she received, if anything at all, but it's a good question you ask. I was quoting Cricket.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:15 pm
In Colorado, you must file a *legal* separation in order to have your bills and income not considered in the divorce proceedings, - so that would set the actual date of the separation. As for alimony, almost not heard of here. And even for child support, if you are able to work you will have a reasonable amount assigned to you as your share of the income for figuring support - even if you choose not to work.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:33 pm
http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/PA/padivexpln.htm#Divorce Divorce: Fault and No-Fault In Pennsylvania there are two types of divorce: fault and no-fault. The fault grounds for divorce in Pennsylvania are: 1. Willful and malicious desertion and absence from the marital home, without a reasonable cause, for the period of one (1) or more years. 2. Adultery 3. Extreme cruelty, including any physical or mental cruelty that endangers your safety or health, or which makes continued living together improper or unreasonable. 4. Knowingly entering a bigamous marriage while a former marriage is still existing. 5. Sentenced to imprisonment for a term of two (2) years upon conviction of having committed a crime. 6. Imposed such indignities on the innocent spouse as to render that spouse's condition intolerable and life burdensome. 7.Insanity or serious mental disorder which has resulted in confinement in a mental institution for at least eighteen (18) months immediately before the filing of the complaint, and where there is no reasonably prospect that the spouse will be discharged from inpatient care during the 18 months subsequent to the commencement of the action. All fault divorces require court testimony and an appearance by the client. No-fault divorces do not require a court appearance. No-Fault Divorces in Pennsylvania Mutual Consent - A mutual consent divorce will be granted where it is alleged that the marriage is irretrievably broken and 90 days have elapsed from the date of the commencement of an action and an affidavit has been filed by each of the parties evidencing that each party consents to the divorce. Irretrievable breakdown- If the parties have been living separate and apart for a period of at least two years and the marriage is irretrievably broken and the defendant has either: a) Does not deny the allegations as set forth in the affidavit. or b) Denies one or more of the allegations set forth in the affidavit but, after notice and hearing, the court determines that the parties have lived separate and apart for a period of at least two (2) years and that the marriage is irretrievably broken. You have a non-contested divorce when both parties reach an agreement on property issues, child , support, alimony, retirement, and any other issue. Separation Pennsylvania does not have a legal separation process. The date of separation is important in calculating the two-year time period that must pass before one party can obtain a "no-fault" divorce without the consent of the other party. It is also important in determining the value of the martial property. While it is possible to be separated and still live under the same roof, this makes proof of separation more difficult, Parties should live in two different places during the period of separation. Adultery Adultery is sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than the spouse. In Pennsylvania, neither cunnilingus nor fellatio, which the law defines as sodomy, is a ground for divorce and generally neither is considered adultery. The sexual intercourse must involve some penetration of the female organ by the male organ, but a "completion" of the sexual intercourse is not required. How to Prove Adultery There probably is no such thing as a pleasant adultery case; because names, dates, places, paramours, and the like have to be brought out in the open. If your spouse no longer cares about what you know and is open about the affair, you're lucky. You can then catch your spouse flagrante delicto, which means you have your spouse in the flagrant wrong and may not have to worry about hiring detectives. However, you may still need a detective to prove your case in court. There is still a need for a corroborative witness, such as a mutual friend or neighbor, who has no stake in the matter except telling the court what he (she) witnessed. Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery. Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense. Naming the Co-Respondent Sometimes known as a paramour, the co-respondent is the person whom you charge as having committed adultery with your spouse. The co-respondent has the right to hire a lawyer and file an answer to your complaint. Naming co-respondents can get sticky, particularly if your facts are incorrect. You might be damaging the reputation of an innocent person. The Adulterers Adulterers are not equal under the blanket of the law. In Pennsylvania, adultery may impact custody if the adultery is proven to have harmed or impaired the children. Adultery does not necessarily affect alimony awards in Pennsylvania. It will, however, be a factor for consideration in awarding alimony. Condonation Generally, if you knew your spouse committed adultery but continued to live and cohabit with your spouse, then adultery cannot be used as a ground. Once you resume marital relations, after you learned of the adulterous act, the courts feel that you have forgiven, or "condoned," the act. But, if your spouse starts having affairs again, you can then sue on grounds of adultery. Or, if your spouse has had several affairs and you knew of and condoned only one, you may file on adultery regarding the newly discovered affairs. In Pennsylvania, however, condonation does not necessarily bar the action for divorce; it now only a "factor for consideration." Crimes If your spouse has been convicted-not simply charged-of a crime, that is a ground for divorce in Pennsylvania. The conviction can be for either a misdemeanor or a felony in any state, and the spouse has to serve at least 24 months in a penitentiary or penal institution. Desertion and Abandonment For all practical purposes, desertion and abandonment are one and the same. .There are two elements that have to be present in order to constitute desertion: the willful desire or the intent to desert and the cutting off of the marital relationship. In Pennsylvania, the abandonment has: continued for 12 uninterrupted months; must be deliberate and final; beyond any reasonable expectation of reconciliation. There are two types of desertion-actual desertion and constructive desertion. Actual Desertion When your spouse packs bags, books, and toothpaste, walks out the door, moves into another apartment, and stays there, he or she is guilty of actual desertion. The spouse voluntarily leaves and has no plans to return except perhaps to pick up a forgotten belonging. Constructive Desertion You also can be deserted even if your spouse does not leave. If your spouse's behavior is so cruel or despicable that you find yourself dialing suicide prevention, you can leave and charge your spouse with constructive desertion. Constructive desertion is basically defined as one person leaving the relationship-not necessarily the home. The following are some cases of marital misconduct that have been applied to constructive desertion: Willful refusal of sex, without just cause and nonperformance of other marital duties as to practically destroy the home life. The denial of sex alone does not constitute desertion. The spouse also has to stop carrying out the mutual responsibilities of the marital relationship. Conduct that endangers a spouse's life, safety, health, and even self-respect (although an isolated assault or two will not necessarily constitute cruelty unless the act was particularly severe and atrocious). One spouse's failure to move if, for example, the other gets a job transfer. The exception is if one spouse's choice of domicile is unsafe or unsuitable for the other. If the Deserter Returns Your spouse has left you, spent six months chasing butterflies, and suddenly wakes up one morning and decides that you are the one after all. In good faith, your spouse shows up at your doorstep and begs you to forgive and forget. In Pennsylvania, if you say yes, then all is well. But if you say no and refuse to even see or listen to your spouse, then, strange but true, your spouse could sue you for desertion. The waiting period would start all over again beginning with the time of your refusal. Keep in mind that "good faith" is the key. If, for example, your husband deserted you and then tried to return only after realizing what the high costs of his alimony and legal fees would be, his desire to return would not necessarily be considered "good faith". Insanity Your spouse must be judged permanently and incurably insane and be confined in an institution or a hospital for a minimum of18 months before filing, and there must be no reasonable prospect that the spouse will be discharged from the institution during the 18 months subsequent to the filing of the action.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:41 pm
Hmmm...wonder if Kate can go after Jon for adultery?
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 1:04 pm
She should.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 1:44 pm
That's what I was thinking she'll go for the adultery charge. And maybe Jon will go for the "Willful refusal of sex, without just cause and nonperformance of other marital duties as to practically destroy the home life. The denial of sex alone does not constitute desertion. The spouse also has to stop carrying out the mutual responsibilities of the marital relationship." He can call his bro and sis in law to tell the court Kate wanted to stay together only for the show and she set him free if he was discrete, which he wasn't. And telling the court that Kate only performed family duties for the TV show. They can call on TLC for out takes to prove his point....if his assertions would be accurate. It's a mess, right.
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 3:06 pm
She probably could say well with 8 kids she is too tired. If Jon did more to help, he may get more love...
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 6:03 pm
I suspect that once one spouse is found to be the adulturer he/she couldn't then charge wilful refusal of sex.. and that would only work if the other spouse was even there to be refused.. but it seemed clear that Jon was pining to party with friends more anyway. I thought they each filed for the no fault divorce anyway, but with all of his recent actions, it might at least be a good threat to have as a possiblility. Hmmm that section on "if the deserter returns" .. maybe that was what Jon's attorney had in mind when Jon was making those statements about wanting to come back? And the lock on the bedroom door may be Kate's attorney's idea to keep Jon from moving back into the house? (not counting that she probably fears that he'd bring Hailey or another girlfriend into that bedroom when she was gone. He has an apartment over the garage for himself already.
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Sabbatia
Member
08-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 6:47 pm
I was thinking that it was filed as a no fault divorce already and that you couldn't change that once it was filed that way.
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Kittyab
Member
07-15-2005
| Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 8:14 pm
Well since Jon has haulted the divorce proceedings who knows whats going on.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 6:45 am
Locking up a room? I thought they were sharing the house?
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 8:31 am
Why is everyone calling Jon the adulterer in this relationship? If Kate told him the marriage was over and to do his own thing, she can't now say he committed adultry. I do believe there are enough witnesses to Kate wanting to be separated but married only for the show for Jon to be able to say he did not commit adultry. If it's like Sabbatia says...no fault...I don't see why they would change it now. Why do states have all these things you can charge with and also no-fault type divorces? Re Kates one-hour special next week, this article from the Baltimore Sun is very funny. I won't be watching the show, but I will be reading what this guy has to write about it. Kate Gosselin to 'Answer' Questions in TLC Special
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 8:48 am
Why is everyone calling Jon the adulterer in this relationship? If Kate told him the marriage was over and to do his own thing, she can't now say he committed adultry. I can only speak for myself and not for everyone. To me no matter what a spouse says, no matter how over the marriage is, no matter how unhappy a person is, they need to wait until the marriage is OVER before they start dating openly. Even after papers have been filed to end the marriage, they are married. I can understand having the beginnings of a new relationship in the works while the divorce is in the works, but to openly date and make it obvious that there is an intimate relationship with another person before the absolute end, is adultery. If both parties to the divorce agree that it is well over before the papers are even filed, it is still important to at least be discrete in ones actions. By flaunting his many girlfriends and having "sleep overs" with his gal pals before the ink is dry, Jon is the textbook definition of an adulterer. Perhaps his gal pals are the reason it is over. Perhaps it has nothing to do with his behavior. I wasn't there so I don't know. But I do know that I've seen photos of Jon with various women long before the divorce is final. To me, Jon has committed adultery.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 9:03 am
There are some things that a person is legally required to do (e.g. stop at a red light). There are also some legal obligations when it comes to the legal side of a marriage. However, I think that adultery is a moral issue (with legal implications). I don't morally think that it is adulterous to move on to another relationship if both people in the marriage believe in their heart that the marriage is over and especially if both people have agreed that it is time to move on. I think that marriage is more than a piece of paper both while a couple is married and if the marriage is ending.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 9:10 am
I have mixed feelings. For myself I would think I would wait until the divorce is over before I would start dating. It just wouldn't feel right to me to do otherwise. But if I had 8 children involved...I would wait for a LONG time before I got involved with someone else...your children should be your priority, not your penis. I don't think children of this age can easily understand Mommy or Daddy moving right into another relationship. I think it would have been more appropriate for them to give the children some time to get accustomed to the new routine of Mommy and Daddy not living together before they starting introducing new people into the lives of their children. But that's just the way I feel about it.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 9:22 am
I'm not sure that we can blame Jon's penis. It hasn't gone out and got itself photographed by the paparazzi. I'm sure that's not essential for its happiness. Seriously, I think with Jon it is more a sense of emotional freedom and rebellion. He has lived his life being told what to do by Kate and feeling restricted (rightly or wrongly) and now he feels he is free. The sad part though is that Jon may be hurting his children with his actions and that is a terrible thing.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-03-2002
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 9:43 am
Roxip, I think as women we feel differently about it than men do. We tend to need longer to heal. I also think Jon was doing his healing/grieving long before Kate started (or even knew he was) so by the time he left, he was DONE! I'm with Jimmer on this one. Once you declare the marriage over, are starting the filing process, I think you are free to date or do whatever. Of course discretion is always a good thing. Children have to be considered in all steps.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 9:47 am
I believe that Kate was done with Jon long before anyone had a clue. And I don't think Kate gave a crap what Jon did privately but once the paps got wind of his partying ways all bets were off for Kate and she went into the poor Kate mode. She can't have it both ways. It's natural for most adults to crave a physical relationship and I don't begrudge either Jon or Kate moving on....when it's over it's over. The divorce is nothing more than paper work, dividing marital assets and getting custody matters ironed out.
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