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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 5:33 pm
Ahnicka, I think some consider him authentic because he displays all of his faults for the world to see. Kate is seen as not authentic because she keeps some things private and tries to appear put together when in public. Since I think some flaws should be kept to oneself and it is quite common for people, especially woman, to try to appear at their best when in public, I prefer Kate's way. Others prefer to see the "real" person, warts and all.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:41 pm
I see Jon as more authentic than Kate because Jon, say what you want about him, these days, he's as flawed as they get and admits it. He can come back from his spiral of craziness, if he wants to. As for Kate, she's as fake as her tan. Kate may keep her mouth shut in public and obviously deals with the media far better than Jon but there is zero authenticity in that woman. It would be fine with me if she were an actress playing a role on a sit com but she and the family were put on a reality show "documentary". When the money and trips rolled in either she decided to play a role or TLC asked her to play a roll. ymmv and that's ok with me. Her truest moment of late is when she announced she'd like to be a movie star. I liked that Kate because for just a moment she was being authentic.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:03 pm
I like Kate.
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Hukdonreality
Member
09-29-2003
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:24 pm
Bottom line is, who moved far away from the children when the marriage faltered? If Jon had moved to NYC due to some fantastic job or something, I might give him an inch. Nope, he ran away to "find himself." Fake or not, believeable or not, selfish or not, Kate publicly fought to be with her children, and to provide for them (whether anyone agrees or not as to her methods).
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:39 pm
At least he didn't move cross country LOL....see it could always be worse. Many divorced parents move a plane ride away. Jon's not far at all. Who knows, maybe he will move to LA or Hawaii. Or if Kate gets a gig in LA maybe she'll move the kids and herself there. I don't think this divorced couple will be the type to let each other have free rein over when they can see the kids. It'll be very structured visitation and that's all it'll be visitation. The kids will NEVER have a hands on Dad everever again, those days are gone for them. For the most part Dad will be the guy that comes on certain days when the courts allow it or mom ok's it. No more regular play time, they won't be able to run to dad when they fall off their bikes, they can't have dad settle a dispute, they can't run home after school and show dad the A+ they got on a test...they'll have to wait for him to show up on pre determined days and it won't matter where he lives as long as he shows up when he's allowed to see them. Its sad. Kate like many moms with custody will have a lot on her plate...at least Kate can pay for help so the 8 kids will always be supervised and she'll have time to breath. But it really doesn't matter where he lives as long as he shows up when he's allowed.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 11:03 pm
I think he is authentically self-absorbed and I sure don't give him points for not being worse than he is or even more miles away. As for how young Jon was when the kids were born. I was reading about a child who is just three and has been treated for one of the worst possible cancers, rhabdomyosarcoma, and has relapsed .. his mother is 23. I think what she's gone through (and so many parents) and frankly find it difficult to drum up a whole lot of sympathy for ol' Jon.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:25 am
When Hugh Hefner (terrible example, really, lol...but one that might suit Jon, after all) separated from his wife, he purchased the property next door so that his sons with her could be close to him, and could, indeed run next door to show him their papers, have regular play time, settle a dispute. If one of them was injured, he could go next door and be comforted by his father. How much did Jon's apartment cost him? It cost him much more in terms of his time with his children. That was a choice he did not have to make. He could have chosen to make "work" a plane ride away, rather than chosing to make his children a plane ride away. Did anyone happen to see him on TMZ tonight? The man just loves his paps. He was really glad to "see my kids and shit" (THAT is how he phrased it) though, before returning to New York to roam the streets looking for paps. I just can't see that Jon was forced out of his childrens' lives. I see it as him chosing to be out of their lives...and ride around in that tiny little sports car that two of them can barely fit in with him.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:52 am
That is what Melissa Etheridge and Julie Cypher did.. side by side properties where the kids could just flow back and forth. Hmm sort of like the Big Love house/s with one backyard? Well Jon loves his shit.. I assume he means his tractors and stuff.. heck, I was naive enough to think he actually used them for more than zooming around, but he said recently that he has a "landscaper" which sounds like a fancy term for a gardener.. And drats, I missed TMZ (kidding.. I didn't watch it).
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:57 am
Apparently Jon's pad cost upwards of one million dollars, since a one-bedroom goes for that and he has a two-bedroom. LINK According to all the info I could find, Kate either stays at a local hotel, with her bodyguard and his wife, or a condo...all close to her children, as she has chosen not to venture too far from them when they are in Jon's custody. Choices.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:01 am
Sea...I don't think he meant his tractors. I think he was trying to be cool. He said it like you might say, "well, I went to the store and shit." Also, when he asked who the pap was with and the pap said TMZ, Jon was all happily talking to him and used the phrase, "sick. sick." as in cool, cool. He's completely immature and fame hungry. It's "sick sick" alright.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:11 am
Her truest moment of late is when she announced she'd like to be a movie star. She didn't say she'd like to be a movie star. She said she'd like to be a voice in an animated movie because it would be fun for her kids.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:33 am
Yeah that is what I heard, but people have flipped that to movie star and that phrase has legs, of course. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt about the shit. Kate has said she is nearby and that's all she will say which makes sense since she doesn't want paps tailing her.. unlike Jon who actually hired one as a bodyguard.. sounds like Britney a few months ago..
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Marameko
Member
07-15-2002
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 6:30 am
authentically self-absorbed ................ Perfect way to describe Jon. Bottom line after all these opinions/postings is that I still feel sorry for those kids. I am not going to watch the reruns on TLC < been there done that > and hope the interest in this family fades.If Kate can earn money from public appearances or books then that is great. Levi Johnson as well as Jon and Kate are really pretty boring when you think about it !
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Kathyb
Member
05-17-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 8:21 am
Kate has used the opportunity of the show to launch herself into a new career that will support these 8 children well and secure their futures. I say, good for her - it looks like she's going to be their sole financial support. Jon has done nothing that I can see in that regard. Selling gossip to ET doesn't count.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:21 am
I wonder when the divorce is final if Kate will have to pay Jon spousal support because he can't/won't get a job and he has a huge mortgage to pay and wants to live in the life he is accustomed to. Never mind that she is supporting 8 kids on her own.
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Happymom
Member
01-20-2003
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:54 am
I hope not. In CA, the courts take into consideration your ability to work. So Jon wouldn't get such a break here, and, I hope not anywhere. Re: child support, whoever has the kids most will most likely get more money from the spouse who has the kids the least amount of time. Oh..I think K&J both didn't ask for spousal support.
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Mgmriver
Member
04-27-2009
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 11:19 am
I don't think Kate would permit the children to see Jon whenever they wanted even if he lived nextdoor inless the courts made it so. Kate will make sure Jon sees the children when it is convenient for her and on predetermained dates and times. If she starts to travel for work she may call Jon to stay with the children but I suspect as time goes on she will rely more on the nannies. I don't see how where Jon lives will give him more time with the children. I don't see Kate as being flexiable with time. There would be NO WAY Kate would want Jon living "nextdoor". The children may want that but I don't think the parents would, they hate and detest each other.
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Ahnicka
Member
08-08-2007
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 11:38 am
Thank you All for answering. I agree that Jon is flawed and he puts it out there for all to see, but I don't think he admits that he's flawed as someone stated; he plays the victim all the time and blames everyone else. Unless that's in reference to the sideshow "apology" event he did with Rabbi Schmuley, which I don't count; it wasn't genuine. It was another attention seeking, reputation saving, media grabbing escapade. I just don't see how deceit and lying can equate to authenticity. Usually when a person is lying to others, they're also lying to themselves. Authentic means worthy of trust, reliance, or belief; Jon isn't trustworthy, reliable, nor believable (this latter one is debatable for some, but he's been caught in multiple lies which destroys his credibility with many). Introspection (self-examination) and reality hasn't set in for Jon yet, and until it does, I don't see any authenticity about him or radiating from him.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-31-2000
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:35 pm
IMO, it doesn't matter if Kate would *right now* allow Jon to see the children more if he lived next door. These things generally soften over time if both people work at it, and they become more flexible. However, by moving so far away, Jon's children only see *that he moved away*; and by ceding custody so easily, the message they get is that he didn't fight for them. Jon did not move away for the sake of his children. If he was moving somewhere for the sake of his children, it would have been close by, so he could be there for every silly school event or sports event or whatever. He's made it impossible to do so, and that says everything.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:35 pm
I don't think Kate would permit the children to see Jon whenever they wanted even if he lived nextdoor inless the courts made it so. There is absolutely no way of knowing this. What we think Kate might or might not permit is only our speculation. I have never seen Kate indicate on any level that she wants to keep the children from their father. Perhaps she would actually welcome him living next door. How can we know? By the way....Kate Gosselin will be one of Barbara Walter's Ten Most Fascinating People of 2009. The special airs next Wednesday.
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:47 pm
True Bee, we can only guess at what Kate will do. On the other hand we do know that Jon will keep the kids from Kate unless he is ordered not to since he has done so in the past. So it's actual history versus speculation. I think Karuuna is correct that time will soften both of them, neither of which is a bad person at their core. Just two people who reacted in very different ways to years of stress/change and media scrutiny.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:35 pm
Kar makes a good point.. no matter what J/K might do to each other on "their" time, both parents could be nearby and show up for school events and other activities. And many of the divorced parents who do move far away do it for job reasons. Jon and job.. not so much and sure if he was a pavement pounding auditioner type 20 year old he might "need" to be in NYC but he does have "representation" up the yang so I suspect he could be contacted for any gigs he might be offered, had he remained physically near his children. The bit saying his work was in NY was justification after the fact and.. what work, Jon? He's been to California and Nevada for "work", but didn't need to have a home in those spots.
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Mgmriver
Member
04-27-2009
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:52 pm
I guess time will tell if Kate lets the kids get to see their dad on non schedualed days.
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Beekindpleez
Member
07-18-2006
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:56 pm
I guess time will tell if Kate lets the kids get to see their dad on non schedualed days. Actually, she has already done so. On Mady and Cara's birthday.
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Twinkie
Member
09-24-2002
| Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 5:29 pm
I don't think Kate is the reason Jon isn't seeing his kids much. I think Jon is the reason. He's having too much fun being single. Funny how Kate never needed to move to NYC for work. She's managed to do just fine while right there with her kids.
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